***Official 2014-2015 Houston Texans thread***

[Michael Jordan.]

Didn't see it posted, stop slackin Gonzo.


Offseason Priorities:


1. Cut Schaub, Joseph, Daniels, Manning.


then

http://msn.foxsports.com/content/dam/fsdigital/fscom/ncaa-fb/images/2013/12/28/122813-CFB-Teddy-Bridgewater-Bill-OBrien-SPlit-PI-JN.jpg

[benefactor]

With the cap increasing, they may not have to cut nearly as many people. Pretty good chance they keep Joseph now...and possibly Daniels.

[Lincoln]

Are y'all niggas really that sold on teddy?

[Michael Jordan.]

Are y'all niggas really that sold on teddy?
O'Brien put in work with Matt Mcgloin. I think him and Teddy would work out more than him and Manziel. Plus I want Clowney no where near the team. And the Texans must take a QB.

[FkLA]

sponsored by we getting Football tbh

[Trainwreck2100]

:lol if you draft fooseball, shit you already dodged one bullet with Vince young

[benefactor]

:lol if you draft fooseball, shit you already dodged one bullet with Vince young
They saw the writing on the wall with VY. Pretty sure they see it again tbh.

[Raven]

i think it's pretty obvious houston will draft either clowney or bortles, both seem like good choices tbh. Derek Carr looks like he will advance in qb rankings from here until the draft, same for logan thomas and jimmy garoppolo. Bridgewater will probably be drafted by either cleveland or the raider but probably with zero confidence. Manziel will start slipping .

Meaning if houston takes clowney at 1, they could draft one of those two in the second or third.

[FkLA]

Comparing VY to Football is retarded and everyone in here knows it. Id expect the casual fan to make that comparison but not people who know the big difference b/w their arms and releases tbh.

[FkLA]

i think it's pretty obvious houston will draft either clowney or bortles, both seem like good choices tbh. Derek Carr looks like he will advance in qb rankings from here until the draft, same for logan thomas and jimmy garoppolo. Bridgewater will probably be drafted by either cleveland or the raider but probably with zero confidence. Manziel will start slipping .

Meaning if houston takes clowney at 1, they could draft one of those two in the second or third.

Wait wait you're high on Thomas' arm but not Footballs? Have you seen Thomas play? :lmao

[Raven]

Wait wait you're high on Thomas' arm but not Footballs? Have you seen Thomas play? :lmao

i'm not talking about my opinions tbh, just about what the trend is or what in my opinion it may be. If it was for me i'd draft a qb only if he was a) the glennon type or b) the luck type

[MeloHype]

443094869825687552

[benefactor]

:tu

[spurraider21]

restructures are typically bad news in the long run. be wary

[Chinook]

restructures are typically bad news in the long run. be wary

Seriously, I've never heard of a player not being willing to restructure. The Texans aren't in a place to restructure, anyway. They seem a year away from even returning to their level from two years ago.

[benefactor]

Doesn't matter tbh. Daniels, Schaub and Manning are probably all gone. They will be able to afford to keep Joseph after that.

[spurraider21]

Seriously, I've never heard of a player not being willing to restructure. The Texans aren't in a place to restructure, anyway. They seem a year away from even returning to their level from two years ago.
all it does is give them more guaranteed money while making it harder to cut them down the line... whats not to like?

[spurraider21]

if they were really going to have room from those cuts, they're better off not restructuring

[MeloHype]

443397480294522880

[djohn2oo8]

443397480294522880
http://www.toothpastenipple.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/waterboy-nipple-pinch-uhhhh-o.gif

[MeloHype]

443412234073411584

[MeloHype]

443414236388012033

[benefactor]

McCain was quite possibly the worst DB in the league. Surprised it took them this long to think about it.

OD was my dude, but he just couldn't stay healthy and Garrett Graham will give the same production on the cheap.

[MeloHype]

444146718200696832

[td4mvp2k]

With the 2014 NFL Draft less than two months away, ESPN draft analyst Mel Kiper has released the latest update to his mock draft, and he has a surprising pick at number one overall in a linebacker from the MAC.

According to Kiper’s update, he sees the Houston Texans not only bypassing on a quarterback with the top pick, but also passing on Jadeveon Clowney and taking Buffalo linebacker Khalil Mack with the top pick. After his respective performances at the NFL Scouting Combine and at his Pro Day, Mack has drawn a lot more interest in this process than he came in with.

Also of note, he has Texas A&M QB Johnny Manziel going to the Minnesota Vikings, not much longer after Manziel was praised by not only legendary Vikes signal caller Fran Tarkenton, but Brett Favre as well.

http://fansided.com/2014/03/13/2014-nfl-mock-draft-mel-kiper-releases-latest-update-khalil-mack-texans/

:lol

[leemajors]

Seriously, I've never heard of a player not being willing to restructure. The Texans aren't in a place to restructure, anyway. They seem a year away from even returning to their level from two years ago.

I guess it depends on how many times they were asked. Ware wasn't willing this time.

[benefactor]

:lol
:lol thinking Kiper is a legit source for draft information

[Chinook]

I guess it depends on how many times they were asked. Ware wasn't willing this time.

Yes he was. He wasn't willing to take a pay cut. That's a big difference.

[td4mvp2k]

:lol thinking Kiper is a legit source for draft information

why so salty bruh? :lol

[benefactor]

why so salty bruh? :lol

Said Kiper, “If Clausen’s not a successful starting quarterback in the NFL, I’m done.”
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/04/19/mcshay-kiper-draw-their-final-battle-lines-on-jimmy-clausen/

:lol

[td4mvp2k]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/04/19/mcshay-kiper-draw-their-final-battle-lines-on-jimmy-clausen/

:lolcant all be winners tbh... btw bradford is nothin great either... :tu

[leemajors]

Yes he was. He wasn't willing to take a pay cut. That's a big difference.

Aye, I was just assuming he wanted out no matter what

[benefactor]

3yrs/11.25 for Graham. About what I expected.

[benefactor]

Welp














































































































http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_ACaDF0kiT5I/TMCwwJujkJI/AAAAAAAAAw4/L2fawpJkYTg/s1600/crickets.jpg

[spurraider21]

JFF

[benefactor]

They are looking for bargains due to lack of cap space...which means UDFA's after the draft and maybe one player player left out in the cold during FA.

[spurraider21]

The June 1 cuts usually produce a LOT of good players tbh

[benefactor]

I hope so. The only other big move I expect is Schaub getting cut.

[djohn2oo8]

They are looking for bargains due to lack of cap space...which means UDFA's after the draft and maybe one player player left out in the cold during FA.
They have cap space. They are already 13 million under, I think they need to focus on drafting first and fill holes through FA.

[Raven]

The June 1 cuts usually produce a LOT of good players tbh

mostly old and washed up or just bad tbh.. hardly any substancial difference for a team like yours.. i honestly have no idea what their plan was in this offseason.. Maybe to not overpay anyone and get some veteran help and become decent, so that the next year players would not ask for twice as much money to get to them.. Can't think of anything else tbh

[spurraider21]

mostly old and washed up or just bad tbh.. hardly any substancial difference for a team like yours.. i honestly have no idea what their plan was in this offseason.. Maybe to not overpay anyone and get some veteran help and become decent, so that the next year players would not ask for twice as much money to get to them.. Can't think of anything else tbh
the raiders have had such an opportunity this offseason... with the ridiculous cap space they had, they could have signed guys but giving them bloated contracts that were massively frontloaded, which no other teams could match. this would theoretically allow us to fill several holes while maintaining cap flexibility down the line.

this is the approach i was hoping they would make with a free agent like Mack, but it doesn't seem to be the case. they seem to be content operating as if they had 15 min in cap space instead of the 65+ they had.

the june 1 cuts are very helpful though. they're aren't going to give you make or break franchise players but they can give you a lot of valuable depth or fill-in starters. its a 53 man roster, and its hard to full those up with just the UFA's during this period

[benefactor]

They have cap space. They are already 13 million under, I think they need to focus on drafting first and fill holes through FA.
That's not a lot when you look at the holes they have to fill tbh.

[spurraider21]

realize that draft picks get money too. a #1 overall QB would be making nearly 6 mil per year if im not mistaken

[Chinook]

realize that draft picks get money too. a #1 overall QB would be making nearly 6 mil per year if im not mistaken

Rookie contracts actually count weirdly against the cap. Here's an article from last year talking about it:

http://russellstreetreport.com/explaining-how-the-rookie-salary-cap-actually-works/


In the days following this week’s NFL draft, the league will announce each team’s “Year One Rookie Allocation” (formerly known as the “Rookie Pool” or “Rookie Salary Cap”). This is an oft misunderstood number, because while it is part of the team’s Salary Cap, it does not have a dollar-for-dollar impact on the team’s overall Salary Cap.

The Rookie Salary Cap is often referred to as “a cap within a cap” because it limits the amount that teams can allocate to their rookies in the year they were drafted (and over the life of the rookies’ contracts). But, beyond that, there is a lot of confusion about the Rookie Salary Cap and exactly how it works. Even some in the media do not fully understand the mechanics of it. Some have been heard to say that it’s a totally separate pool of money that is not included in the team’s overall Cap. Others think the entire amount of the Rookie Cap is included in the team’s overall Cap, meaning that teams will need that much overall Cap space to sign their rookies.

Both of those characterizations are incorrect.

The Rookie Cap is not a separate, distinct pool, but rather, a separate calculation and there is not a dollar-for-dollar correlation between the Rookie Cap and the overall Cap. So, while all of the Salary Cap numbers of a team’s draft picks must fit under the team’s Rookie Salary Cap, very rarely will all of that amount actually impact the team’s overall Salary Cap.

The reason for these misconceptions revolves around the Rule of 51, which is contained in Article 13 of the NFL’s Collective Bargaining Agreement. The Rule of 51 dictates that, from the beginning of the league year in early March until the beginning of the season, only the top 51 Salary Cap numbers and all of the pro-rata shares of bonus money for the players outside of the top 51 count toward the team’s overall Cap. All “dead money,” i.e. amounts that count against the Salary Cap for players who are no longer on the roster, counts as well.

Said a simpler way, during this period of the offseason, a team’s Rule of 51 Salary Cap number can be calculated by removing the base salaries of all players who do not fall amongst the top 51 Cap numbers.

This rule is necessary because, during the offseason, team rosters can number up to 90 players. As such, it would be impossible for teams to fit all of those players under the Cap. So, to counter this problem, the NFL has instituted the Rule of 51.

So, by way of example, let’s say a team’s 51st highest Cap number is $515K (a 2nd year minimum base salary of $480K + $35K in bonus proration) and the next highest Cap number is $490K (base salary of $480 base salary + $10K in bonus proration). Because the “52nd” highest Cap number doesn’t count against the Cap, that player’s base salary of $480K will not count against the team’s Cap, but his $10K in bonus proration will. This would also apply to all other players who are outside the team’s top 51 – the player’s base salary will not count, but any bonus prorations will.

OK, so what does this have to do with how the Rookie Cap works?

First, as way of further explanation, under the CBA of 2011, all rookies receive 4-year contracts, generally with a signing bonus and often with minimum base salaries set for each year of the deal. While 1st and 2nd round picks may have base salaries of more than the minimum in years two through four of their deals, even those players will almost always receive the rookie minimum base salary during their first year. For 2013, the minimum base salary for a rookie is $405K. For Salary Cap purposes, the bonus received by the player is prorated over the four years of the deal and that prorated amount is added to the base salary to create the player’s Cap number.

So, because of the low base salary and the small signing bonuses that many of the lower round draft picks receive, those draft picks will most likely not be amongst the top 51 Cap numbers on the team (assuming the team has at least 51 players signed or tendered). As such, under the Rule of 51, those players’ base salaries of $405K will not count against the teams overall Salary Cap and only the player’s bonus proration will count toward the team’s overall Cap.

So Houston will have to allocate a larger chunk of their cap to draft picks than most teams, but it's still not nearly as muchas you'd think.

[MeloHype]

445075760743600128

[benefactor]

Bridgewater had a lackluster pro day. Lots of inaccurate passes. Unless Bortles just blows everyone away I'm thinking Houston takes Clowney.

[Holden_Caulfield]

Bridgewater had a lackluster pro day. Lots of inaccurate passes. Unless Bortles just blows everyone away I'm thinking Houston takes Clowney.
lol he came in at 208 pounds :lol

[Spur-Addict]

Tape Tape Tape

[Holden_Caulfield]

Tape Tape Tape
he makes cum newton salivate with his game managing skills

[Clipper Nation]

Tape Tape Tape
What does Kirby have to do with Teddy Bridgewater? :lol

[Spur-Addict]

he makes cum newton salivate with his game managing skills

Newt may be throwing to cardboard cut outs on a John Deere this year


What does Kirby have to do with Teddy Bridgewater? :lol

:rollin

[MeloHype]

445646449762529280

[benefactor]

God please no

[MeloHype]

446032500834312192

[benefactor]

Well that's something. It's better than having zero NT's on the squad.

[MeloHype]

446775310474678272

[Michael Jordan.]

Tipping their hand that they will take a QB #1

[spurraider21]

ok now release schaub so we can get our stopgap pls

[Michael Jordan.]

ok now release schaub so we can get our stopgap pls
Not yet, we must rob you niggas of a draft pick :lol

[Michael Jordan.]

Actually, this move may signal they will wait until a later round to pick a QB and draft either Clowney or Mack.

[spurraider21]

Not yet, we must rob you niggas of a draft pick :lol
:lol i dont think we're ever gna trade a pick for a stopgap after the Flynn disaster. reggie would rather sign Freeman than deal for Schaub

[MeloHype]

446800574957092864

[benefactor]

Amish Rifle!

[benefactor]

Starting to think Houston is going to take Bortles. Fitzmagic is a backup/insurance signing.

[Michael Jordan.]

Starting to think Houston is going to take Bortles. Fitzmagic is a backup/insurance signing.
Or they can go QB in round 2 and go with Clowney or Mack at 1.

[Holden_Caulfield]

for a guy with great measurables and athleticism, bortles has a noodle arm :lol. please pick him.

[benefactor]

Or they can go QB in round 2 and go with Clowney or Mack at 1.
I would prefer that. That was actually one of my theories going into this draft. Sign a vet, take a QB in the second and let them battle it out in camp.

[spurraider21]

who are u gna take in the 2nd as ur qb? mettenberger? they're taking Bortles

[Michael Jordan.]

who are u gna take in the 2nd as ur qb? mettenberger? they're taking Bortles
I'd consider this guy, assuming Bridgewater, Manziel, Bortles don't fall

6BD5rn2Y6l8

[spurraider21]

cleveland, jacksonville, oakland, minnesota are the non-houston candidates to be taking a 1st round qb. i also wonder how long the titans will roll with Locker.

those 4 would grab bortles, bridgewater, carr, manziel in no particular order, imo. manziel could/should fall to the 2nd and a guy like garoppolo could be taken there instead. i think houston goes qb tbh

[benefactor]

Garoppolo is who I think it will be as well...assuming they decide not to take Bortles and go with Clowney with the first pick.

[Holden_Caulfield]

I'd consider this guy, assuming Bridgewater, Manziel, Bortles don't fall

6BD5rn2Y6l8

:lmao, you couldve traded us your 6th for gabbert, theyre the same player

[FkLA]

Fucking :lol at Bortles all of sudden being the consensus #1 bc he looked impressive playing catch with his WR at Indy and at his Pro Day. None of you faggots knew who he was halfway into his senior season. I like him better than Bridgewater but no way should a dude that had one solid season in the AAC be compared to a guy like Football. Speaking of which, I love the reasoning behind my nigga Football's stock 'dropping'... he hasnt played catch yet so hes a second rounder !!

[spurraider21]

no part of his game says "nfl." you cant be an offensive coordinator for the guy. you can't map out an offense if manziel is your quarterback. there is nothing he has done that tells me he can drop back, and throw it with timing. he's gna take off, run around, and try to improvise every play, which has been proven time and time again is not a viable NFL strategy. the dude will be a firecracker, make some amazing plays, but you can't consistently be successful with that sort of style. not in the NFL

[benefactor]

no part of his game says "nfl." you cant be an offensive coordinator for the guy. you can't map out an offense if manziel is your quarterback. there is nothing he has done that tells me he can drop back, and throw it with timing. he's gna take off, run around, and try to improvise every play, which has been proven time and time again is not a viable NFL strategy. the dude will be a firecracker, make some amazing plays, but you can't consistently be successful with that sort of style. not in the NFL
Yep...Houston aready has this guy on thier roster. His name is Case Keenum.

[benefactor]

For the record, I've always said that if they picked a QB it would be Bortles. I just preferred Bridgewater.

[Clipper Nation]

Fucking :lol at Bortles all of sudden being the consensus #1 bc he looked impressive playing catch with his WR at Indy and at his Pro Day. None of you faggots knew who he was halfway into his senior season. I like him better than Bridgewater but no way should a dude that had one solid season in the AAC be compared to a guy like Football. Speaking of which, I love the reasoning behind my nigga Football's stock 'dropping'... he hasnt played catch yet so hes a second rounder !!
:lol Johnny Inbred

You should probably watch his shitstained performances against LSU if you want a preview of him in the NFL :lol

[leemajors]

For the record, I've always said that if they picked a QB it would be Bortles. I just preferred Bridgewater.

Yeah Bortles has been talked about here for months

[FkLA]

no part of his game says "nfl." you cant be an offensive coordinator for the guy. you can't map out an offense if manziel is your quarterback. there is nothing he has done that tells me he can drop back, and throw it with timing. he's gna take off, run around, and try to improvise every play, which has been proven time and time again is not a viable NFL strategy. the dude will be a firecracker, make some amazing plays, but you can't consistently be successful with that sort of style. not in the NFL


Didn't you say Football was the best QB of the bunch not too long ago? Since then nothing has changed other than us finding out that Bortles is pretty good at playing catch. But shit the experts have inexplicably downgraded Football even though he has literally done nothing, so I guess it's only fair ST does too.

[FkLA]

:lol Johnny Inbred

You should probably watch his shitstained performances against LSU if you want a preview of him in the NFL :lol

At least 5 receiver drops that game, easily. And I'm sure I could find a bad game for every prospec if I tried tbh.

[td4mvp2k]

:lol i dont think we're ever gna trade a pick for a stopgap after the Flynn disaster. reggie would rather sign Freeman than deal for Schaub

:lol

[td4mvp2k]

I would prefer that. That was actually one of my theories going into this draft. Sign a vet, take a QB in the second and let them battle it out in camp.

now u want mack @ 1... :lol

[Ryan Fitzpatrick]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdIev12fCPs

[Ryan Fitzpatrick]

:lolIf we draft JFF it might be the largest wonderlic discrepancy in QB's on the same roster--only outdone by the time Buffalo brought in Vince Young as a camp arm 2-3 years ago

[benefactor]

Looks good on you son.

[spurraider21]

Didn't you say Football was the best QB of the bunch not too long ago? Since then nothing has changed other than us finding out that Bortles is pretty good at playing catch. But shit the experts have inexplicably downgraded Football even though he has literally done nothing, so I guess it's only fair ST does too.
I think football can have the most immediate
impact like Vince young. When I was depressed about football I said I wanted the raiders to take a gamble with him. Luckily I've put the Kool aid down

[spurraider21]

ok now release schaub so we can get our stopgap pls


Not yet, we must rob you niggas of a draft pick :lol
:cry

[Holden_Caulfield]

i hope its for a 6th or worse because i want to keep the title of biggest robbery in FA this season :lol

[spurraider21]

i hope its for a 6th or worse because i want to keep the title of biggest robbery in FA this season :lol
im rooting for you

[MeloHype]

447109911512481792

[Clipper Nation]

447109911512481792
:lol This guy is a bonafide scrub, Chiefsfans are celebrating his departure, tbh....

[benefactor]

Depth signing tbh. He's only getting the minimum.

[FkLA]

I think football can have the most immediate
impact like Vince young. When I was depressed about football I said I wanted the raiders to take a gamble with him. Luckily I've put the Kool aid down

Why are you comparing him to Vince in any way? That is idiotic and everyone here knows it. Vick is the the reasonable comparison and last I checked hes had a longer, better career than a shit load if pocket passers despite running a dog fighting ring on the side. I think Football is more accurate than Vick was too, which is huge.

[Michael Jordan.]

Why are you comparing him to Vince in any way? That is idiotic and everyone here knows it. Vick is the the reasonable comparison and last I checked hes had a longer, better career than a shit load if pocket passers despite running a dog fighting ring on the side. I think Football is more accurate than Vick was too, which is huge.
lol no.

[spurraider21]

Why are you comparing him to Vince in any way? That is idiotic and everyone here knows it. Vick is the the reasonable comparison and last I checked hes had a longer, better career than a shit load if pocket passers despite running a dog fighting ring on the side. I think Football is more accurate than Vick was too, which is huge.
Both of them are reliant on improvising wig their feet as opposed to running a called play

[FkLA]

Both of them are reliant on improvising wig their feet as opposed to running a called play

And we just ignore the glaring difference between the two in other areas? That's like comparing Megatron to some tall scrub and saying 'well they both rely on size!'.

[spurraider21]

And we just ignore the glaring difference between the two in other areas? That's like comparing Megatron to some tall scrub and saying 'well they both rely on size!'.
Vick had the strongest arm in the league for some time. It's not a fair comparison to Manziel. I'm not going by their size/appearance, but rather by playstyle

[Chinook]

Manziel is TAMU's Vince Young. I dunno how that's even debatable.

[benefactor]

...and just like Vince did, he will sucker some team into taking him early...and once again, I'm glad that team is not going to be Houston.

[FkLA]

Vick had the strongest arm in the league for some time. It's not a fair comparison to Manziel. I'm not going by their size/appearance, but rather by playstyle

I didn't say they were carbon copies of each, Vick had a better arm. Although like I said imo Football is more accurate.

Why is it unfair to compare him to Vick though but completely reasonable to compare him to a dude who's arm was a complete liability? :lol


Manziel is TAMU's Vince Young. I dunno how that's even debatable.

It takes like a minute to look up their releases and see that Footballs is a lot quicker, fluid and thus more accurate. It is idiotic for a non-casual fan to make that comparison.

[spurraider21]

Fine compare him to Vick if it floats ur boats. That's still a shitty investment in the first round :lol

[FkLA]

Has nothing to do with it floating my boat and everything to do with using some common sense tbh. To you what makes a good QB investment in the first round ?

[Holden_Caulfield]

if jeff garcia took more chances, he would be manziel

[spurraider21]

Has nothing to do with it floating my boat and everything to do with using some common sense tbh. To you what makes a good QB investment in the first round ?
A guy who has the potential to be consistent over a long period of time

nothing about Manziel would lead you to believe he will be a consistent player or will last a long time.

[FkLA]

This is basically ST...

Bottles/Bridgewater: Lets bring up the fact that the elite QBs in the league are pocket passers to bolster their stock.

Football: Lets bring up shitty to ok QBs that had good wheels to lower his stock.

Nevermind the fact that the ceiling of the the first two is lower than the elite QBs they're being compared to or that Footballs is higher than guys like VY and Garcia. Thank god you dumb niggas aren't GMs tbh. :lol

[Michael Jordan.]

Still haven't heard how many running QBs have won SBs.

[Clipper Nation]

Still haven't heard how Inbred is going to cope without Evans to catch all his prayer throws, or how he's going to be able to read NFL defenses when he sucks against LSU defenses :lol

[Michael Jordan.]

Still haven't heard how Inbred is going to cope without Evans to catch all his prayer throws, or how he's going to be able to read NFL defenses when he sucks against LSU defenses :lol
He's gonna get broken in half.

[spurraider21]

This is basically ST...

Bottles/Bridgewater: Lets bring up the fact that the elite QBs in the league are pocket passers to bolster their stock.

Football: Lets bring up shitty to ok QBs that had good wheels to lower his stock.

Nevermind the fact that the ceiling of the the first two is lower than the elite QBs they're being compared to or that Footballs is higher than guys like VY and Garcia. Thank god you dumb niggas aren't GMs tbh. :lol
It's not about ceilings... If you fuck over a top 5 pick it sets you back. It's why Luck was a slam dunk over rg3... Even though rg3 arguably had a higher ceiling

[FkLA]

What? Ceilings are a part of every draft prospects draft grade. Also the RG3-Luck comparison is another idiotic one...Lucks ceiling was right there alongside Cornbread's. This year no QBs ceiling comes close to Footballs.

[FkLA]

p.s. CN is a dumb nigga and MJ is arguably the dumbest nigga (up there with bene)

[spurraider21]

You are the Diaw > lee guy so I wouldn't go around throwing intelligence insults. Of course upside has to do with it, but floor is more important because you need these guys to contribute. If you want upside take some tall guy with a fast 40 in the 7th round. Jamarcus had high upside with a low floor...

Rg3 has a stronger arm and runs faster than luck, which seems to be your argument for Manziel

[spurraider21]

I also don't see the upside in a small qb who runs around like a chicken with its head cut off

[Clipper Nation]

p.s. CN is a dumb nigga and MJ is arguably the dumbest nigga (up there with bene)
I'll take that as a compliment from the mastermind behind "Diaw > Lee," tbh :lol

[Raven]

ESPN's Merril Hoge believes Texas A&M QB Johnny Manziel has "bust written all over him."

"He's gotta be a good decision maker, he's gotta be accurate, has to have a feel for the pocket and awareness and understanding of how to play in structure. All that being said (Manziel's) got none of that," Hoge said. The football analyst pointed to instances where Manziel did not play "smart," specifically citing a third down hot read. "You get blinded into thinking excitement translates to the NFL. That is not a skill set."


imho a great take.

[FkLA]

You are the Diaw > lee guy so I wouldn't go around throwing intelligence insults. Of course upside has to do with it, but floor is more important because you need these guys to contribute. If you want upside take some tall guy with a fast 40 in the 7th round. Jamarcus had high upside with a low floor...

Rg3 has a stronger arm and runs faster than luck, which seems to be your argument for Manziel

This season's Diaw is better than Lee. Did you know opponents shoot 60%+ when being guarded be Lee? If you do know that and still feel like Lee>Diaw than I can see why you are stupid enough to make these retarded comparisons.


I also don't see the upside in a small qb who runs around like a chicken with its head cut off

Your smarts clearly dont extend beyond books if you seriously think Football accumulated the numbers he did strictly by running around like a chicken with his head cut off. Lets ignore his rushing numbers for the season...his passing numbers are still up there with anyone in this class despite playing in the toughest conference by far. Why are you ignoring that? Unless you are retarded enough to believe all those number were accumulated through improvisation in which case youd be a dumbass of epic proportions.


I'll take that as a compliment from the mastermind behind "Diaw > Lee," tbh :lol

Diaw is better than the absolute worst post defender in the NBA. Then again Id expect a dumb nigga to not see or care about that tbh.


ESPN's Merril Hoge believes Texas A&M QB Johnny Manziel has "bust written all over him."

"He's gotta be a good decision maker, he's gotta be accurate, has to have a feel for the pocket and awareness and understanding of how to play in structure. All that being said (Manziel's) got none of that," Hoge said. The football analyst pointed to instances where Manziel did not play "smart," specifically citing a third down hot read. "You get blinded into thinking excitement translates to the NFL. That is not a skill set."


imho a great take.

Stupid take. Look up his stats...doesnt matter if he was inside or outside the pocket, on the run or not, he was accurate.

[FkLA]

Rg3 has a stronger arm and runs faster than luck, which seems to be your argument for Manziel

Stop using this retarded ass comparison. I wouldnt take RG3 or Manziel over Luck. Luck was as sure of a thing as there has been since probably Peyton...Bortles, Bridgewater and Carr are nowhere near him. Why dont you use some of the shitty ass pocket passer that have been drafted Top 10 over the years instead? Thats alot more reasonable.

[spurraider21]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wp_qz5Pcy8


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CS9HvIlIi_I

shit like this tbh... i have said before that he's a better thrower than many on this forum give him credit for, but he relies too much on shit like this. say what you want, but its a huge part of his game, and its not going to allow him to be a consistent nfl starter.

[spurraider21]

Stop using this retarded comparison. I wouldnt take RG3 or Manziel over Luck. Luck was as sure of a thing as there has been since probably Peyton...Bortles, Bridgewater and Carr are nowhere near him. Why dont you use some of the shitty ass pocket passer that have been drafted Top 10 over the year instead? Thats alot more reasonable.
i brought up the comparison once... the point i was making was in the floor vs ceiling argument for fucks sake, not to say Luck or RG3 > manziel... its was the same discussion with Leaf vs Manning. guys reaching for upside based on athletic ability will regret it over taking the NFL product

[FkLA]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wp_qz5Pcy8


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CS9HvIlIi_I

shit like this tbh... i have said before that he's a better thrower than many on this forum give him credit for, but he relies too much on shit like this. say what you want, but its a huge part of his game, and its not going to allow him to be a consistent nfl starter.

Wait, do you think he accumulated all or even most of his passing numbers by doing SC Top 10 shit like this ?


i brought up the comparison once... the point i was making was in the floor vs ceiling argument for fucks sake, not to say Luck or RG3 > manziel... its was the same discussion with Leaf vs Manning. guys reaching for upside based on athletic ability will regret it over taking the NFL product

You posted about it in two posts.

Regardless, Luck was as sure a thing as youll get in the draft. Theres no reason this should be brought up when the three (or four) first day pocket passers are far from sure things.

[spurraider21]

again, stop taking luck/griffin so literally. its the general idea of ceiling vs floor

[FkLA]

again, stop taking luck/griffin so literally. its the general idea of ceiling vs floor

Its a stupid thing to bring up when their ceilings were within spitting distance of each other. Bring up similar ceilings/floors and your point would make sense.

Dont ignore everything else either.

[spurraider21]

i'm not ignoring anything. i've seen terrelle pryor make nice throws from the pocket too. i'm sure manziel has his fair share, tbh. you can't deny that his running/scrambling is a huge facet of his game that has is very reliant on. the only qb that makes it work is Wilson. to be fair, he's in a great situation, but he also plays smart

[DD]

JFF could very well be better than Cawnbread. He'll never be anything close to Lord Luck, but nobody's that good so can't hate on him for that.

[FkLA]

JFF could very well be better than Cawnbread. He'll never be anything close to Lord Luck, but nobody's that good so can't hate on him for that.

If only you guys hadnt taken Manuel, Football couldve turned the Billies around. :cry

[FkLA]

i'm not ignoring anything. i've seen terrelle pryor make nice throws from the pocket too. i'm sure manziel has his fair share, tbh. you can't deny that his running/scrambling is a huge facet of his game that has is very reliant on. the only qb that makes it work is Wilson. to be fair, he's in a great situation, but he also plays smart

No shit its a big part of his game. Look up the stats though, dude is accurate as hell outside the pocket/on the run. Improvising isnt a bad thing if youre good at it. Only reason its frowned upon is because normally its a low percentage play but Football is so got damn good that he makes it work. In other words this nigga can revolutionize the QB position if he keeps making strides in the pocket. :tu

[spurraider21]

No shit its a big part of his game. Look up the stats though, dude is accurate as hell outside the pocket/on the run. Improvising isnt a bad thing if youre good at it. Only reason its frowned upon is because normally its a low percentage play but Football is so got damn good that he makes it work. In other words this nigga can revolutionize the QB position if he keeps making strides in the pocket. :tu
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bg2qIFDCUAEhrm_.png:large

[FkLA]

Oh noes, Football is a whole 1-3% less accurate than players that live in the pocket. If anything you are proving my point. The dropoff is minimal despite having more improv in his game and playing against significantly tougher competition than all but two of those guys. Not bad when his supposed weakness is right up there with their strength.

[Lincoln]

I have no dog in this fight but I can't wait to check this thread out in a year or two just to see who is right. Great read

[Chinook]

By the way, I don't see Manziel having a high ceiling at all. Nor do I see RGIII as having a high ceiling. Don't know why people think QBs who succeeded largely because of poor defenses have a ton of room for improvement. There's nowhere for running QBs to go but down (after a year or two) once they get into the pros.

[Wiz]

JFF >>> any other QB in the draft

[spurraider21]

By the way, I don't see Manziel having a high ceiling at all. Nor do I see RGIII as having a high ceiling. Don't know why people think QBs who succeeded largely because of poor defenses have a ton of room for improvement. There's nowhere for running QBs to go but down (after a year or two) once they get into the pros.
well RG3 was touted as the accurate, strong armed quarterback "who by the way could also run, but he :cry really doesn't want to run :cry"

it is in that sense i said he was the high upside guy coming out... although he has basically been the typical one-read then take off and run qb we have seen

[Chinook]

well RG3 was touted as the accurate, strong armed quarterback "who by the way could also run, but he :cry really doesn't want to run :cry"

it is in that sense i said he was the high upside guy coming out... although he has basically been the typical one-read then take off and run qb we have seen

Yeah, but their whole "upside" is based on them stopping or heavily reducing the part of the game that made them relevant in the first place and instead trying to do something they're not good at, and at which many other prospects are better.

The moment you tell a running QB to sit in the pocket and read defenses, you're making him a completely different player who's flaws are much more obvious.

[Michael Jordan.]

Bill O'Brien comments on draft



“I don’t think there’s any question that we’ll draft a quarterback in the draft,” O’Brien said. “Where we draft that quarterback, I don’t think we know yet. We don’t even know that yet. We’re still in the process of studying all these prospects, in the process of putting a grade on them and place them where they would be in the draft. The big thing is it’s such a long process. We’re in the stage now where we go to the Pro Days and eventually we bring them into our facility for an interview, we call it an on-campus interview in Houston. As we get closer and closer we’ll obviously be able to make a decision.”

O’Brien hinted that Central Florida’s Blake Bortles, Louisville’s Teddy Bridgewater and Texas A&M’s JohnnyManziel aren’t necessarily the quarterbacks he’s watching.

“There’s not a lot of separation, and there are more quarterbacks than just three. Obviously, the three guys that everybody talks about, Blake, Teddy and Johnny, those guys are good players. Thy had great college careers. But there are other guys out there,” O’Brien said.
...

“You’ve got McCarron, you’ve got Mettenberger, you’ve got Logan Thomas, you’ve got Savage, you’ve got Garoppolo. I mean, I could go right down the list. To me, you’ve got 10 or 12 guys you’ve got to do a great job of evaluating and make the best pick possible where ever you draft these guys. I see a lot of good quarterbacks,” O’Brien said.

[Michael Jordan.]

Sounds like they're taking Clowney

[benefactor]

Sounds like they're taking Clowney
Yep...works for me.

[Holden_Caulfield]

lol at considering drafting logan thomas at qb

[FkLA]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5jb9IpHklE

:worthy:

*Ignore the ridiculous Bridgewater>Football take tbh.

[Michael Jordan.]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5jb9IpHklE

:worthy:

*Ignore the ridiculous Bridgewater>Football take tbh.

Didn't know dunking had anything to do with reading defenses.

[FkLA]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1mHnNs6Ru8

:cry But, but his instinct is to run out of the pocket. But scrambling when the pocket collapses isnt smart or effective. But Evans always bailed him out. But he shouldnt throw off-balance. But he's just a running QB. :cry

[Michael Jordan.]

Didn't know dunking had anything to do with reading defenses.

[FkLA]

I am dumbjohn.

[Michael Jordan.]

Didn't know dunking had anything to do with reading defenses.

[Spur-Addict]

Didn't know dunking had anything to do with reading defenses.

:rollin

[Clipper Nation]

Didn't know dunking had anything to do with reading defenses.
FkLA getting ethered :lol

Dude needs to hop off Inbred's piece, it's unbecoming....

[FkLA]

Yeah I absolutely posted that to prove Football can pass.

dumbjohn sure ethered me !!

[Michael Jordan.]

Yeah I absolutely posted that to prove Football can pass.

dumbjohn sure ethered me !!

I guess when JFF can learn to read defenses, he can dunk on the goalposts after touchdowns. That won't be soon though.

[FkLA]

I guess when JFF can learn to read defenses, he can dunk on the goalposts after touchdowns. That won't be soon though.

Such a sick response. You just ethered me tbh.

[Michael Jordan.]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/03/25/refs-will-penalize-players-who-dunk-over-the-goal-post/

Oh nevermind, the NFL banned dunking over goalposts today. Guess JFF is shit out of luck.

[Clipper Nation]

:lol What is with shitty posters and their love of gimmick QB's?

[Chinook]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1mHnNs6Ru8

:cry But, but his instinct is to run out of the pocket. But scrambling when the pocket collapses isnt smart or effective. But Evans always bailed him out. But he shouldnt throw off-balance. But he's just a running QB. :cry

As an Aggie fan, I loved the vid, but for the life of me, I can't understand why you think it helps your argument.

[FkLA]

Stop ethering me.

[FkLA]

As an Aggie fan, I loved the vid, but for the life of me, I can't understand why you think it helps your argument.

Effective in the pocket, effective outside the pocket. The video and stats show that he's not the typical running QB that lacks accuracy. Whats not to like about that ?

[Chinook]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bbbfn9F8JGE&app=desktop

Awesome pocket passing right there. And he could move in the backfield.

[leemajors]

Stop ethering me.

:lol

[FkLA]

Video and stats. Anyone can look good if you choose the right plays.

Troy Smith never had a 3000 yard season, much less a 4000 yard one. He was never as accurate overall. I dont know how accurate he was outside the pocket but Id be willing to bet money it wasnt on par with Football either. You're basically faulting Manziel because other guys sucked, other guys that didn't have his passing ability no less. :lol

[Chinook]

Video and stats. Anyone can look good if you choose the right plays.

Troy Smith never had a 3000 yard season, much less a 4000 yard one. He was never as accurate overall. I dont know how accurate he was outside the pocket but Id be willing to bet money it wasnt on par with Football either. You're basically faulting Manziel because other guys sucked, other guys that didn't have his passing ability no less. :lol

Nah, it's that it's easy to look like a good passer in college. Most of those Manziel highlights were horrible decisions, throwing across his body, putting the ball right over a defender's head. The good throws he made were usually to wide-open players. Smith also could hit wide-open players like Ginn in stride.

At best, Manziel is an average NFL passer. He's a below-average decision-maker and an extremely below-average physical specimen. He has very little upside. I mean, hell, look at what Colt McCoy did in the league, and he was twice the passer Football is.

[FkLA]

Nah, it's that it's easy to look like a good passer in college. Most of those Manziel highlights were horrible decisions, throwing across his body, putting the ball right over a defender's head. The good throws he made were usually to wide-open players. Smith also could hit wide-open players like Ginn in stride.

At best, Manziel is an average NFL passer. He's a below-average decision-maker and an extremely below-average physical specimen. He has very little upside. I mean, hell, look at what Colt McCoy did in the league, and he was twice the passer Football is.

See thats what I'm saying, people judge Football based on how other players would do in similar situations and not how he does. Scrambling and throwing outside the pocket and/or on the run for example, normally a low percentage play...but that clearly isn't the case with Football. Jumping up to throw a pass, normally a stupid play but Football has made it work. At the end of the day all that matters is whether he is effective or not.

If you mean currently, then sure Manziel is at best an average NFL passer. Hes like 21 though. Its not like hes reached his ceiling. Look at Vick who's had a better career than Colt and a shit load of other pocket passers. And he never looked as good passing the ball in college as Manziel did.

[Chinook]

See thats what I'm saying, people judge Football based on how other players would do in similar situations and not how he does. Scrambling and throwing outside the pocket and/or on the run for example, normally a low percentage play...but that clearly isn't the case with Football. Jumping up to throw a pass, normally a stupid play but Football has made it work. At the end of the day all that matters is whether he is effective or not.

If you mean currently, then sure Manziel is at best an average NFL passer. Hes like 21 though. Its not like hes reached his ceiling. Look at Vick who's had a better career than Colt and a shit load of other pocket passers. And he never looked as good passing the ball in college as Manziel did.

Lol. A jump-pass is never justifiable. It never looks good. It's a bad play. The idea that those types of plays are okay when he does them is ludicrous. They didn't work because he's so talented that he made them work. They worked because college defenses suck. You're seriously acting like a Young fan, thinking that him being effective in lower levels means he'll be able to do the same things at higher levels. It doesn't work that way. NFL defenses are bigger, faster and smarter than college defenses. That's why the Young couldn't run over them, why the Wildcat could trick them and why RGIII couldn't outrun them.

If Manziel is to succeed, he needs NFL-caliber skills. Sandlot pocket presence and NFL Street passes won't work. The question is this: Once he gets all that college crap out of his game, what does he have? The answer is very little.

[spurraider21]

tim tebow set the SEC record for career passer rating

the top 3 completion %'s in SEC history are owned by Tim Couch, Jamarcus Russell, and Tim Tebow

it takes more than a highlight reel to prove that his passing can translate to the NFL... even in the first minute of your vid it shows him run right, throw back across the middle of the field for a TD... an NFL no-no. he scrambled left and threw a jump pass... etc

[spurraider21]

if manziel's ceiling is mike vick, he's not worth a first, and even that's a stretch because vick had an elite arm :lol

[Michael Jordan.]

At this point, it appears Johnny Manziel will not work out for the Houston Texans following his Thursday pro day at Texas A&M.

That could prove an interesting turn -- and potentially be a turnoff to the Texans considering how much first-year coach Bill O'Brien prizes working out quarterbacks individually.

Asked if Manziel would work out for the Texans afterward, O'Brien said during Tuesday's AFC coaches' breakfast, "I don't think so. He's got his Johnny Day.''

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/texans/2014/03/25/texans-coach-says-all-options-open-for-no-1-pick/6866199/?AID=10709313&PID=6149626&SID=cnxqebpo5nlq

[Michael Jordan.]

Yes!! No to Inbred.

[spurraider21]

smokescreen :lol

[Michael Jordan.]

smokescreen :lol
I don't think so. His quotes have made it sound like they are taking Clowney.

[spurraider21]

I don't think so. His quotes have made it sound like they are taking Clowney.
i've been hearing Bortles Bortles Bortles, but you never know

[Clipper Nation]

i've been hearing Bortles Bortles Bortles, but you never know
Bortles is still preferable to a gimmick like Inbred :lol

[FkLA]

Lol. A jump-pass is never justifiable. It never looks good. It's a bad play. The idea that those types of plays are okay when he does them is ludicrous. They didn't work because he's so talented that he made them work. They worked because college defenses suck. You're seriously acting like a Young fan, thinking that him being effective in lower levels means he'll be able to do the same things at higher levels. It doesn't work that way. NFL defenses are bigger, faster and smarter than college defenses. That's why the Young couldn't run over them, why the Wildcat could trick them and why RGIII couldn't outrun them.

If Manziel is to succeed, he needs NFL-caliber skills. Sandlot pocket presence and NFL Street passes won't work. The question is this: Once he gets all that college crap out of his game, what does he have? The answer is very little.

The NFL is a step-up, noone is denying that. That's why I have no problem admitting that currently he is at best an average NFL passer despite having been an elite one (statistically) in college. Manziel had 4000 through the air to 800 on the ground this past season, so why are people acting like he plans on going to the NFL and win with his legs? People seem to enjoy ignoring the fact that hes only 21 too, or the strides he has already made on his passing game.


tim tebow set the SEC record for career passer rating

Yeah and Tebow never had anything close to an NFL arm. Another dumb point.


the top 3 completion %'s in SEC history are owned by Tim Couch, Jamarcus Russell, and Tim Tebow

Yep, lets put the fact that, for different reasons, those guys sucked on Football's shoulders. A&M not winning even a conference title should be put on Football and his 10,000 total yards too. That makes so much sense tbh.


it takes more than a highlight reel to prove that his passing can translate to the NFL... even in the first minute of your vid it shows him run right, throw back across the middle of the field for a TD... an NFL no-no. he scrambled left and threw a jump pass... etc

How about tape and stats? Short of actually playing in the NFL, there's not much else he can do.

If a guy in the NFL is as wide open as he was on that play and he doesn't throw across his body simply bc it's a 'no-no' he will have lost his edge tbh.

[spurraider21]

YouTube highlight video =/= tape

[spurraider21]

He is the most inaccurate of all the top qb prospects and plays sandlot football. Bad combo

[benefactor]

You might as well change your team skin to Cleveland now.

[FkLA]

YouTube highlight video =/= tape

Oh, so its enough to make a negative assessment just not a positive one right? The double standard for anything involving Football is so ridiculous. :lol

Theres more video out there from individual games if you bothered to look as well.


He is the most inaccurate of all the top qb prospects and plays sandlot football. Bad combo

Oh no, a whole 1-3% less accurate. Couldnt be attributed to the fact that he played in a significantly better conference than all but Murray/Mettenberger or that all their attempts are almost exclusively from inside the pocket. That is a minimal drop-off considering the fact that Football also improvises.

[leemajors]

the improvisation is part of the problem.

[FkLA]

the improvisation is part of the problem.

Called plays never breakdown?

I'm not saying that's the only time Football improvises, but when used correctly improvisation is an asset not a problem.

[Holden_Caulfield]

Called plays never breakdown?

I'm not saying that's the only time Football improvises, but when used correctly improvisation is an asset not a problem.
hes under 6 feet and barely 200 pounds, with linebackers as fast as him going at full force, his best bet is to not improvise as much if he wants a longer career.

[spurraider21]

There's no double standard. You posted a very selective video of highlights and even in that I pointed out a few obvious flaws. His urge to improvise is going to get him killed and it's his flaw just like other running qb's like my boy Pryor.

Also sorry I'm not going to give him bonus points on completion percentage because he stupidly runs out of the pocket and kills his efficiency. Same with why I don't feel bad for Kobe's fg% because they are of a high degree of difficulty. I don't give bonus points for shitty shot decision and I will hold the same principle for a qb that runs out of the pocket too much as opposed to the more disciplined qb's in the draft

[Chinook]

If anything, you're the one with the double-standard, FkLA. We're arguing Manziel is a poor prospect due to his size, decision-making and attitude. Your only arguments for him are based on stats and highlights. We show other college QBs with similar production and flaws, and you argue stats and highlights don't mean anything.

Throughout all this, I think you are misunderstand the nature of the argument I'm making against you. Manziel's college production has no bearing on his NFL prospects. What does are his size, lack of pocket-presence and poor decision-making. His biggest positives are negated by the jump in competition, which is closer to an order of magnitude than it is a step up. I don't think you fully appreciate how little of what made Football a great college player will translate long-term.

[FkLA]

There's no double standard. You posted a very selective video of highlights and even in that I pointed out a few obvious flaws. His urge to improvise is going to get him killed and it's his flaw just like other running qb's like my boy Pryor.

Also sorry I'm not going to give him bonus points on completion percentage because he stupidly runs out of the pocket and kills his efficiency. Same with why I don't feel bad for Kobe's fg% because they are of a high degree of difficulty. I don't give bonus points for shitty shot decision and I will hold the same principle for a qb that runs out of the pocket too much as opposed to the more disciplined qb's in the draft

smgdh I am done trying to have a reasonable conversation with you tbh.


If anything, you're the one with the double-standard, FkLA (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=17213). We're arguing Manziel is a poor prospect due to his size, decision-making and attitude. Your only arguments for him are based on stats and highlights. We show other college QBs with similar production and flaws, and you argue stats and highlights don't mean anything.

What guys have you showed that have similar production and flaws? Youve brought up Young who just had a ridiculous throwing motion+release and who never came close to Football's production or accuracy. You brought up Troy Smith who never even had a 3000 yd season through the air. Never as accurate. Same with Pryor. Thats without even taking into account the fact that the competition they faced wasn't on par with what Football faced.

It is absolutely a double standard if you read through the thread. It's unfair to compare him to Vick because Vick's arm is stronger but perfectly reasonable to compare him to Young who's arm was a liability. Completely reasonable to compare him to players who's arms and accuracy aren't on par with his. Then you look at the flip side of it and instead of bringing up the hundreds of pocket passers with prototypical size that have flamed out, all you hear is how Peyton/Brady/Rogers are pocket passers. As if any of this year's class of pocket passers has the potential to ever be that good. It's ridiculous tbqh.


Throughout all this, I think you are misunderstand the nature of the argument I'm making against you. Manziel's college production has no bearing on his NFL prospects. What does are his size, lack of pocket-presence and poor decision-making. His biggest positives are negated by the jump in competition, which is closer to an order of magnitude than it is a step up. I don't think you fully appreciate how little of what made Football a great college player will translate long-term.

Saying Manziel's stats have no bearing on his NFL prospects is foolish. No doubt there is a jump in competition, but the best from college tend to be the dominant ones in the NFL--same with the jump from HS to college. That's just how it works. There's plenty of big, smart QB prospect that lived in the pocket and were absolute busts. Yet somehow that's the only way to judge a QB? Get out of here.

[FkLA]

There's no double standard. You posted a very selective video of highlights and even in that I pointed out a few obvious flaws. His urge to improvise is going to get him killed and it's his flaw just like other running qb's like my boy Pryor.

Also sorry I'm not going to give him bonus points on completion percentage because he stupidly runs out of the pocket and kills his efficiency. Same with why I don't feel bad for Kobe's fg% because they are of a high degree of difficulty. I don't give bonus points for shitty shot decision and I will hold the same principle for a qb that runs out of the pocket too much as opposed to the more disciplined qb's in the draft

smgdh I am done trying to have a reasonable conversation with you tbh.


If anything, you're the one with the double-standard, FkLA (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=17213). We're arguing Manziel is a poor prospect due to his size, decision-making and attitude. Your only arguments for him are based on stats and highlights. We show other college QBs with similar production and flaws, and you argue stats and highlights don't mean anything.

What guys have you showed that have similar production and flaws? Youve brought up Young who just had a ridiculous throwing motion+release and who never came close to Football's production or accuracy. You brought up Troy Smith who never even had a 3000 yd season through the air. Never as accurate. Same with Pryor. Thats without even taking into account the fact that the competition they faced wasn't on par with what Football faced.

It is absolutely a double standard if you read through the thread. It's unfair to compare him to Vick because Vick's arm is stronger but perfectly reasonable to compare him to Young who's arm was a liability. Completely reasonable to compare him to players who's arms and accuracy aren't on par with his. Then you look at the flip side of it and instead of bringing up the hundreds of pocket passers with prototypical size that have flamed out, all you hear is how Peyton/Brady/Rogers are pocket passers. As if any of this year's class of pocket passers has the potential to ever be that good. It's ridiculous tbqh.


Throughout all this, I think you are misunderstand the nature of the argument I'm making against you. Manziel's college production has no bearing on his NFL prospects. What does are his size, lack of pocket-presence and poor decision-making. His biggest positives are negated by the jump in competition, which is closer to an order of magnitude than it is a step up. I don't think you fully appreciate how little of what made Football a great college player will translate long-term.

Saying Manziel's stats have no bearing on his NFL prospects is foolish. No doubt there is a jump in competition, but the best from college tend to be the dominant ones in the NFL--same with the jump from HS to college. That's just how it works. There's plenty of big, smart QB prospects that lived in the pocket and were absolute busts. Yet somehow that's the only way to judge a QB? Get out of here with that nonsense.

[FkLA]

You're in the there's only one way for a QB to have success camp. They need to be big, with limited mobility and must live in the pocket! It really is ignorant to believe there will never be a dual-threat guy that will come along and enjoy success. It's akin to saying black QBs can't win. I happen to think Football is that guy.

[Pelicans78]

Yes!! No to Inbred.

I guess Clowney is the choice. I like Bortles as the best QB, but not as the top pick. Not sold on Manziel or Bridgewater long-term. Really dislike Bridgewater as a potential top prospect. Screams average to solid QB at best.

[Chinook]

You're in the there's only one way for a QB to have success camp. They need to be big, with limited mobility and must live in the pocket! It really is ignorant to believe there will never be a dual-threat guy that will come along and enjoy success. It's akin to saying black QBs can't win. I happen to think Football is that guy.

As a black man, I find your equation of running quarterbacks to black quarterbacks absurd and offensive. A person's race has little bearing on their ability to do a job. The method by which they go about doing a job does affect how well they perform at said job. It's legitimate and certainly not prejudicial to question whether a running QB can win it all. There's too much evidence to ignore the fact that running QBs aren't successful long-term.

You have the burden of proof, not us. You have to show why Manziel breaks the mold. We've already talked about why he doesn't, and you just keep jumping through hoops. He's not a good passer. At best, he's an average one as a prospect. He's below average as an elite prospect. That's why I keep calling Manziel a running QB. His passing is only worth talking about in the context of his running. It doesn't look good in comparison to any of the non-running QBs. The NFL will take away his running ability, leaving his questionable passing ability, poor height and injury risk as his defining features.

And for the love of god, stop repping college passing stats. Graham Harrel dominated Manziel in every passing stat known to man, and he's still a practice-squad player. Stats and production mean very little for pro prospects. That's why so many Heisman winners bust and the best NFL QBs were second-tier college players.

[FkLA]

As a black man, I find your equation of running quarterbacks to black quarterbacks absurd and offensive. A person's race has little bearing on their ability to do a job. The method by which they go about doing a job does affect how well they perform at said job. It's legitimate and certainly not prejudicial to question whether a running QB can win it all. There's too much evidence to ignore the fact that running QBs aren't successful long-term.

What if the method they use is different yet effective? You're ignoring his effectiveness through the air simply because he can also run. He's automatically destined to become Pryor or Smith even though they were never the passers he is and ran a completely different offense.

I have never claimed Football is a sure thing. He's no Luck. He could end up flopping and if he ends up performing like some of the guys brought up then he will flop. For example, I would have no problem with an argument that goes something like this...hey Football seems to have better mechanics and more accurate than the majority of his dual-threat predecessors. His predecessors didn't enjoy the most success though, and I'm not sure if better mechanics and accuracy is enough to yield significantly different results.

^Perfectly reasonable. OTOH, your argument basically consists of equating him to lesser players.


You have the burden of proof, not us. You have to show why Manziel breaks the mold. We've already talked about why he doesn't, and you just keep jumping through hoops. He's not a good passer. At best, he's an average one as a prospect. He's below average as an elite prospect. That's why I keep calling Manziel a running QB. His passing is only worth talking about in the context of his running. It doesn't look good in comparison to any of the non-running QBs. The NFL will take away his running ability, leaving his questionable passing ability, poor height and injury risk as his defining features.

You haven't shown me anything. All you've done is bring up lesser QBs--to the eye and statistically. You compare them to Football and somehow that 'proves' he can't enjoy any success. You said in an earlier post that he was indisputably A&M's version of Vince Young. I brought up key, obvious flaws that Vince had that Football doesn't and you just choose to ignore that. How does that make any sense?


And for the love of god, stop repping college passing stats. Graham Harrel dominated Manziel in every passing stat known to man, and he's still a practice-squad player. Stats and production mean very little for pro prospects. That's why so many Heisman winners bust and the best NFL QBs were second-tier college players.

:lol There are plenty of good QBs in the NFL that put up solid passing stats in college. That's the shit I'm talking about, let's go out and find one undrafted guy and single him out to discredit Football's stats. That's not how it works, my man. Stats aren't everything and noone is saying he'll dominate at the same level but they mean a lot more than what you're claiming.

Colt was a pocket guy at UT. Smart, good size. He didn't pan out. Does that mean if I use your logic I can now say size, smarts and pocket presence are irrelevant ?

[spurraider21]

I'm a Russell Wilson fan... I have nothing against qb's that can run

[FkLA]

Those guys are Running QB 1.0 and Football is Running QB 2.0...they aren't the same.

You guys are insistent that he is even though he has a bigger arsenal than his predecessors.

[Chinook]

Dude, you're seriously being obtuse on this issue. We've shown you Manziel has awful decision-making and poor pocket presence. Why you keep acting like that doesn't matter is beyond me. He's not a good passer. You keep ignoring his flaws with throwing the god-damned football. And that would be fine if you didn't keep claiming that no one is critiquing Manziel's actual play.

You need to read what people write. I never said NFL quarterbacks weren't good in college. I said almost none were at the top in college. RGIII was a better college QB than Luck. Tory Smith was better than Flacco. Hell, Flacco couldn't even start at Pitt. The college game is so different from the pro game that almost no production translates.

Colt is short like Manziel. I have no idea why you think he isn't. Harrell is as well. Smith is as well. Colt's size and weak arm ( which was plenty strong for college) is what did him in. He also was a dual-threat QB, even more so than Manziel. He could complete 70 percent of his passes and run a 50-yard TD. He'll probably end up in the college football HOF along with Tebow.

I called Manziel A&M's Vince Young because he has fans who ignorantly disregard his flaws and act like his college production supercedes his very obvious weaknesses. Despite how blatant it seems to you that he sucked, Young was once considered a solid prospect. People thought they could clean up the bad and build up the good. But they found that all he was was horrible habits that he got away with due to being athletically superior to his defenders. You're acting like a new-age Young fan. That's why you say silly things like Manziel makes jump-passes work. People thought Young made side-armed passes work.

I'll be direct with one question. What the hell does Manziel do that makes him a superior NFL prospect? Name one quality that he does better than the other QBs in this draft. And if that quality is running, improvising or especially "making plays", kindly sit yourself down, because you just destroyed your entire argument.

[FkLA]

Dude, you're seriously being obtuse on this issue. We've shown you Manziel has awful decision-making and poor pocket presence. Why you keep acting like that doesn't matter is beyond me. He's not a good passer. You keep ignoring his flaws with throwing the god-damned football. And that would be fine if you didn't keep claiming that no one is critiquing Manziel's actual play.

You keep saying you've shown me this or that. I haven't seen anything.

Awful decision making? Sorry but a play or two where he throws across his body to a wide open guy doesn't show me that. Throwing over defender's heads right into his player's hands, I fail to see how that's a bad thing. Throwing to the outside shoulder with a defender draped all over his teammate? Throwing up a jumpball for Mike Evans? Far from awful.

Pocket presence is a work in progress. He's made huge strides in one year already. He's only 21, I don't think this is his ceiling.


You need to read what people write. I never said NFL quarterbacks weren't good in college. I said almost none were at the top in college. RGIII was a better college QB than Luck. Tory Smith was better than Flacco. Hell, Flacco couldn't even start at Pitt. The college game is so different from the pro game that almost no production translates.

You are using one undrafted guy to support your argument that they don't translate. Simple as that.

I know about the Flaccos and the Romos. But how do they discredit putting up stats in a big stage? They prove they aren't required but that's completely different than proving that stats are irrelevant.


Colt is short like Manziel. I have no idea why you think he isn't. Harrell is as well. Smith is as well. Colt's size and weak arm ( which was plenty strong for college) is what did him in. He also was a dual-threat QB, even more so than Manziel. He could complete 70 percent of his passes and run a 50-yard TD. He'll probably end up in the college football HOF along with Tebow.

6-2, 220 is short and small now?

Ok, how about Kliff Kingsbury and Kevin Kolb (6-3, 220)? Matt Leinart (6-5, 225)? There's plenty of other examples. Doesn't mean I can now claim size, smarts and pocket presence are completely irrelevant.


I called Manziel A&M's Vince Young because he has fans who ignorantly disregard his flaws and act like his college production supercedes his very obvious weaknesses. Despite how blatant it seems to you that he sucked, Young was once considered a solid prospect. People thought they could clean up the bad and build up the good. But they found that all he was was horrible habits that he got away with due to being athletically superior to his defenders. You're acting like a new-age Young fan. That's why you say silly things like Manziel makes jump-passes work. People thought Young made side-armed passes work.

The flaws aren't comparable. How do you not see this? Vince needed a complete overhaul of his mechanics, similar to Tebow. If you really think Football is in that class I don't know what to tell you. If you see the glaring difference then there's no need to call him 'A&M's Vince Young'.


I'll be direct with one question. What the hell does Manziel do that makes him a superior NFL prospect? Name one quality that he does better than the other QBs in this draft. And if that quality is running, improvising or especially "making plays", kindly sit yourself down, because you just destroyed your entire argument.

'Making plays' is not a bad thing.

A good passer with the ability to extend plays or make something happen when the play breaks down is better than just a good pocket passer. That's the angle I'm coming from. Obviously you seem to think Football is Troy Smith passing the ball though, so I can see why you wouldn't understand that angle.

[spurraider21]

6-2, 220 is short and small now?
who is this mystery quarterback you are referring to that is 6'2 220?

its certainly not Manziel, who checked in at the combine at below 6 feet and 210 pounds (5'11 and 3/4, 207 pounds). but hey lets just add some inches and pounds for shits and giggles

[Raven]

so he thought Manziel was 6-2? :lmao Well, at least it makes sense now tbh

[leemajors]

You keep saying you've shown me this or that. I haven't seen anything.

Awful decision making? Sorry but a play or two where he throws across his body to a wide open guy doesn't show me that. Throwing over defender's heads right into his player's hands, I fail to see how that's a bad thing. Throwing to the outside shoulder with a defender draped all over his teammate? Throwing up a jumpball for Mike Evans? Far from awful.

Pocket presence is a work in progress. He's made huge strides in one year already. He's only 21, I don't think this is his ceiling.



You are using one undrafted guy to support your argument that they don't translate. Simple as that.

I know about the Flaccos and the Romos. But how do they discredit putting up stats in a big stage? They prove they aren't required but that's completely different than proving that stats are irrelevant.



6-2, 220 is short and small now?

Ok, how about Kliff Kingsbury and Kevin Kolb (6-3, 220)? Matt Leinart (6-5, 225)? There's plenty of other examples. Doesn't mean I can now claim size, smarts and pocket presence are completely irrelevant.



The flaws aren't comparable. How do you not see this? Vince needed a complete overhaul of his mechanics, similar to Tebow. If you really think Football is in that class I don't know what to tell you. If you see the glaring difference then there's no need to call him 'A&M's Vince Young'.



'Making plays' is not a bad thing.

A good passer with the ability to extend plays or make something happen when the play breaks down is better than just a good pocket passer. That's the angle I'm coming from. Obviously you seem to think Football is Troy Smith passing the ball though, so I can see why you wouldn't understand that angle.

You don't see how throwing at a defender is a bad thing?

[Chinook]

You keep saying you've shown me this or that. I haven't seen anything.

Awful decision making? Sorry but a play or two where he throws across his body to a wide open guy doesn't show me that. Throwing over defender's heads right into his player's hands, I fail to see how that's a bad thing. Throwing to the outside shoulder with a defender draped all over his teammate? Throwing up a jumpball for Mike Evans? Far from awful.

Pocket presence is a work in progress. He's made huge strides in one year already. He's only 21, I don't think this is his ceiling.



You are using one undrafted guy to support your argument that they don't translate. Simple as that.

I know about the Flaccos and the Romos. But how do they discredit putting up stats in a big stage? They prove they aren't required but that's completely different than proving that stats are irrelevant.



6-2, 220 is short and small now?

Ok, how about Kliff Kingsbury and Kevin Kolb (6-3, 220)? Matt Leinart (6-5, 225)? There's plenty of other examples. Doesn't mean I can now claim size, smarts and pocket presence are completely irrelevant.



The flaws aren't comparable. How do you not see this? Vince needed a complete overhaul of his mechanics, similar to Tebow. If you really think Football is in that class I don't know what to tell you. If you see the glaring difference then there's no need to call him 'A&M's Vince Young'.



'Making plays' is not a bad thing.

A good passer with the ability to extend plays or make something happen when the play breaks down is better than just a good pocket passer. That's the angle I'm coming from. Obviously you seem to think Football is Troy Smith passing the ball though, so I can see why you wouldn't understand that angle.

You still don't get it. You just don't get the argument. Manziel isn't a horrible passer. He's just not a good one. He's not an elite one especially. You know this, which is why you're touting his play-making. You fail to understand that play-making gets schemed out quickly in the pros. The thing you think will make Manziel great won't exist.

That's the point. Young, Smith, McCoy, Harrell, Brennan were all elite college players for their ability to make plays and destroy college defenses. You don't appreciate how much better the NFL is. Go back and look at the Heisman-winning QBs from the last 15 years. Not many good pros there. Look at passing leaders. Kolb is up there, a product of the same system that inflated Manziel's stats. Keenum knows about that as well.

You keep believing Manziel's jump-passes and side-armed throws are magic and not flaws. And keep thinking throwing the ball hoping a defender won't lift his hands is good decision-making. I guess only time will demonstrate how wrong you are.

[Chinook]

who is this mystery quarterback you are referring to that is 6'2 220?

its certainly not Manziel, who checked in at the combine at below 6 feet and 210 pounds (5'11 and 3/4, 207 pounds). but hey lets just add some inches and pounds for shits and giggles

Talking about Colt McCoy.

[Chinook]

You don't see how throwing at a defender is a bad thing?

Nah. He thinks Manziel's greatness makes it work.

[Clipper Nation]

Inbred is a gimmickPERIOD.... he might have a fluke rookie season causing the semen cloud of all semen clouds from FkLA, but he'll be exposed and recede into obscurity :lol

[benefactor]

Let it go, Chinook. This is what he does...he just argues in circles and moves goalposts until you get tired of it and walk away. I've been down that path with him more times than I should have, unfortunately.

[Chinook]

Let it go, Chinook. This is what he does...he just argues in circles and moves goalposts until you get tired of it and walk away. I've been down that path with him more times than I should have, unfortunately.

All right. Sorry for derailing the thread, especially since it doesn't even look like the Texans are going quarterback with the first pick.

[benefactor]

No worries...it's a legit discussion for the thread when legit arguments are made. It's been made pretty clear that there is no sound argument for drafting Manziel number one.

[Raven]

i think his argument is that Manziel is the best qb in the draft, but while i obviously disagree even if that would be true, i still don't see it as a good enough argument for being a first round pick.

[FkLA]

who is this mystery quarterback you are referring to that is 6'2 220?

its certainly not Manziel, who checked in at the combine at below 6 feet and 210 pounds (5'11 and 3/4, 207 pounds). but hey lets just add some inches and pounds for shits and giggles

Wow. Read before you comment, dumbass.


You don't see how throwing at a defender is a bad thing?

I don't see how throwing over a defenders head right into your receivers hands is a bad thing, no. If you watch that clip half those CBs have no idea when the ball is being thrown...what's so bad about taking advantage of that? It's intentional and effective. Not like he's doing it unintentionally bc he lacks accuracy or arm strength.


You still don't get it. You just don't get the argument. Manziel isn't a horrible passer. He's just not a good one. He's not an elite one especially. You know this, which is why you're touting his play-making. You fail to understand that play-making gets schemed out quickly in the pros. The thing you think will make Manziel great won't exist.

He's currently an average NFL passer at best which I've agreed to. But like I've also said I don't think this is his ceiling, for some inexplicable reason you seem to think he has topped out at age 21 despite the strides he's already made from his freshman year.He's going up against a couple of QB prospects that have a lot of flaws of their own. It's not like any of them are currently more than average NFL passers as well.


That's the point. Young, Smith, McCoy, Harrell, Brennan were all elite college players for their ability to make plays and destroy college defenses. You don't appreciate how much better the NFL is. Go back and look at the Heisman-winning QBs from the last 15 years. Not many good pros there. Look at passing leaders. Kolb is up there, a product of the same system that inflated Manziel's stats. Keenum knows about that as well.

I understand exactly what you're trying to say, I just think it's dumb.

Why are you so selective with the QBs you bring up? I can be selective and use Kingsbury, Kolb, Leinart, etc, etc to talk shit about smart pocket guys with good size too but how unreasonable would that be when some of the elite QBs in the NFL have those qualities? That's basically what you are doing with stats.


You keep believing Manziel's jump-passes and side-armed throws are magic and not flaws. And keep thinking throwing the ball hoping a defender won't lift his hands is good decision-making. I guess only time will demonstrate how wrong you are.

Ok, drop the jump pass thing. He made that jump pass maybe 5-10 times throughout his two years at A&M it's not even a big part of his game. If he gets rid of it it's no big deal. What about his effectiveness outside the pocket? I brought that up right before the jump passes and it's something that he utilizes alot more. You've been conveniently ignoring that. That's normally a low percentage play but not for him. Called plays breakdown, extending plays is a skill in college or the NFL.

[FkLA]

Let it go, Chinook. This is what he does...he just argues in circles and moves goalposts until you get tired of it and walk away. I've been down that path with him more times than I should have, unfortunately.

STFU you Dunning-Kruger walking exhibit.


i think his argument is that Manziel is the best qb in the draft, but while i obviously disagree even if that would be true, i still don't see it as a good enough argument for being a first round pick.

Need? I don't think any of them are a sure thing.

[spurraider21]

:lol "Manziel is an average NFL passer"... Based on college numbers

[Michael Jordan.]

:lol "Manziel is an average NFL passer"... Based on college numbers
FKLA's elevator doesn't leave the first floor.

[benefactor]

Same tired unfunny insult.

I'll go with with being gainfully employed, having near perfect credit, owning my home, driving a nice car and being muscular, confident and white.




















































































































http://www.travel-studies.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/full-size/checkmate.jpg

Mexican.

[FkLA]

This Mexican is doing more with his life than you ever did, Dunning-Kruger.

:lol no degree

[FkLA]

:lol "Manziel is an average NFL passer"... Based on college numbers


FKLA's elevator doesn't leave the first floor.

Both of yall are dumb as hell. Not even worth a serious reply anymore tbh.

[weebo]

Same tired unfunny insult.

I'll go with with being gainfully employed, having near perfect credit, owning my home, driving a nice car and being muscular, confident, gay and white.




















































































































http://www.travel-studies.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/full-size/checkmate.jpg

Mexican.

[spurraider21]

i wonder if JFF will be throwing jump passes at his pro day tomorrow :lol

[FkLA]

Dur dur I wonder if the mystery 6-2, 225 lb QB makes an appearance tomorrow for shits and giggles.

[Raven]

STFU you Dunning-Kruger walking exhibit.



Need? I don't think any of them are a sure thing.


yes i get that, that's probably the worst way to draft, especially a qb

[spurraider21]

Dur dur I wonder if the mystery 6-2, 225 lb QB makes an appearance tomorrow for shits and giggles.
he'd be a better prospect than manziel

[Clipper Nation]

I love how FkLA learned about Dunning-Kruger from some dumbass lolutsa course and has now started using it as a catchphrase for anyone who disagrees with him :lol

[Michael Jordan.]

449197015621070849

:lmao

[Clipper Nation]

:lol Inbred
:lol Can't decide who's more desperate: FkLA or Inbred himself

In before "Dunning-Kruger" :lol

[Raven]

this is quite weird.

[FkLA]

How's my nigga Football doing? Just got home and about to watch the recording of it tbh.

[FkLA]

449197015621070849

:lmao


:lol Inbred
:lol Can't decide who's more desperate: FkLA or Inbred himself

In before "Dunning-Kruger" :lol

Yeah, he'll fool them. It's not like they measured him at the combine or anything. What a bunch of sad, sad little Dunning-Krugers tbh. :lol

[Clipper Nation]

:lol Inbred begging LeBron to hype up his pro day

449223822269767681

Desperation is putting it lightly :lol

[Clipper Nation]

Rodgers dropping truthbombs on the Inbred hype:

449214179178590208

Let me guess, he's a "Dunning-Kruger" now too? :lol

[FkLA]

:lol Those niggas on ESPN basically plagiarized everything FkLA has been saying in this thread. They even brought up Pryor tbh.

[Clipper Nation]

It's official, this shit is the most overhyped pro day in the history of football:

449221708193746944

:lmao

[Holden_Caulfield]

:lmao getting hyped from a pro day. please texans take johnny :lol

[Wiz]

How's my nigga Football doing? Just got home and about to watch the recording of it tbh.61/64

[Wiz]

449237544396664832

[DesignatedT]

Houston would be idiots to pass on manziel. Guy is a beast

[FkLA]

61/64

Only two hit the ground. One was a receiver drop.

I dont put too much stock in Pro Days but if nothing else this should quite the people who were inexplicably questioning his arm strength and touch.

[Holden_Caulfield]

howd evans do

[Clipper Nation]

449237544396664832
JaMarcus Russell was compared to Elway before his draft :lol

[FkLA]

^Leave it to Dunning-Kruger to think its reasonable to assume that bc another guy sucked, so will Football.


howd evans do

Caught everything thrown to him. Nothing special aside from a 60 yd bomb on the run to end the workout. He's a beast, just hard to showcase himself in that environment.

[Clipper Nation]

:lmao Dunning-Kruger downplaying Evans to prop up Inbred

[FkLA]

So pathetic. :lol

[benefactor]

Let's bring LSU's or Mizzou's defense to the pro day since he's already in pads. Love to see that workout.

[FkLA]

Did Bortles work out against the Memphis defensive juggernaut for his Pro Day? I missed it tbh.

[DPG21920]

So, FkLA are you going to make a prediction or just ride the fence? Instead of saying (with nothing of substance to back it up) that he either could develop or could bust, say what you mean and what you think will happen based on your scouting abilities.

Put it down on paper (ST) so everyone can see your unbiased prowess and then ST can see who was right based on their logic and knowledge of the game.

[FkLA]

Scram, little guy. You don't even watch football tbh.

[Clipper Nation]

Did Bortles work out against the Memphis defensive juggernaut for his Pro Day? I missed it tbh.
Bortles: 1 BCS bowl win

Inbred: 0

[DPG21920]

1) That was terribly unfunny and there is nothing worse than looking like you do and also being unfunny.

2) I do watch football. If you care to place a wager on that, I would be glad to put a bet together and prove my superior intellect over you once again (remember when you lost a bet to me based on our knowledge of the NBA?)

3) Even if 1 & 2 didn't apply, why would you ignore a very simple question :lol? Had nothing to do with my knowledge anyways. It has to do with yours and you being able to express your final assessment and putting that out there for all to see vs sitting on the fence (and probably a d as well). Unless you are now gun shy because the last two times you did that you were humiliated (I forced you to welsh because you were so angry at losing to me & Lee>Diaw per par..)

[Spur-Addict]

Is FkLA really No Lyf3 Scrub?

[FkLA]

1) That was terribly unfunny and there is nothing worse than looking like you do and also being unfunny.

2) I do watch football. If you care to place a wager on that, I would be glad to put a bet together and prove my superior intellect over you once again (remember when you lost a bet to me based on our knowledge of the NBA?)

3) Even if 1 & 2 didn't apply, why would you ignore a very simple question :lol? Had nothing to do with my knowledge anyways. It has to do with yours and you being able to express your final assessment and putting that out there for all to see vs sitting on the fence (and probably a d as well). Unless you are now gun shy because the last two times you did that you were humiliated (I forced you to welsh because you were so angry at losing to me & Lee>Diaw per par..)

If you bother to read through the thread you can see what my opinion of Football is. Not going to bother repeating myself, especially for someone who rarely watches football.

p.s. Diaw is better than Lee, easily

[DesignatedT]

I watched every game of Mike Evans career. Guy is a beast but there were times when his inability to do things offensively were pretty obvious and frustrating. His hands are great but he's still a bit of a question mark at the next level for me. No doubt in my mind he has the tools but he did have a knack to disappear during some big games... particularly when going against a cover zone defense. Man on man was where he put up all his stats but it's a little different against the corners of the NFL.

Just my two cents.

[FkLA]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKDhZTYOZQY

:hat

[Trill Clinton]

he took damn near every snap under center, wore pads and a helmet to show its not a fluke. houston better not fuck this up. its manziel or clowney at number 1. that dude from south florida is all hype.

[Michael Jordan.]

he took damn near every snap under center, wore pads and a helmet to show its not a fluke. houston better not fuck this up. its manziel or clowney at number 1. that dude from south florida is all hype.
Manziel is not worth the first pick.

[Michael Jordan.]

Also, it's easy to look good in a workout.

[Trill Clinton]

i agree this qb class is straight up ass but if the texans want a qb, it should be manziel. bortles is david carr all over again.

[Michael Jordan.]

i agree this qb class is straight up ass but if the texans want a qb, it should be manziel. bortles is david carr all over again.

Yeah I don't want Bortles, I'm leaning more towards just trying to build a dominant D and take Clowney #1, and finding a QB later either in the late rounds or next year. Keenum and Manziel on the same roster are redundant.

[Trill Clinton]

mmhmm...too many question marks for all these qb's. clowney or mack make the most sense if not drafting a qb.

[Michael Jordan.]

NFL Confidential
• Word from the NFL meetings is the Texans are trying hard to deal the first pick in the draft. They want to move down and acquire extra selections. Sources say they might have a trade partner in the Bills, who appear interested in moving up. It is unclear who the Bills would want in a trade-up scenario. Some believe they would move up for a quarterback. They also could make good use of an offensive tackle such as Greg Robinson. And it would be something to see them pair Mario Williams with either Jadeveon Clowney or Khalil Mack.

http://profootballzone.com/nfl/report-texans-trying-trade-first-pick-bills-might-interested/

[Michael Jordan.]

Cyberx of clutchfans is a legit insider. This is what he posted on the Texans meeting with Manziel for 2 hours.


The Texans are also concerned as to how "flashy and hollywood" he may be... The attention he brings etc... They are debating if this could be really bad.

http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showpost.php?p=8807614&postcount=8

[Michael Jordan.]

Clowney or Mack should be th pick then. Unless they trade back.

[benefactor]

Clowney or Mack should be th pick then. Unless they trade back.
Really starting to look like a near lock that they won't go QB #1. Trading down actually makes a lot of sense for a new head coach trying to build his team to fit his vision for the future, as Houston wasn't going to become an instant contender again anyway no matter who the QB is.