Foundational Falshoods of Creationism

[spurraider21]

I agree.
does that contradict what is told in genesis?

[RD2191]

does that contradict what is told in genesis?
No.

[RD2191]

Where the hell did Blake and RG go?

[spurraider21]

No.
Genesis says god made animals on the 5th day and humans on the 6th day

that would mean they were one day apart. you just told me that there was more than a one day gap. that contradicts

[RD2191]

Genesis says god made animals on the 5th day and humans on the 6th day
Not 24 hours to my knowledge, somewhere along the line of a thousand years= a day in Gods eyes.

[spurraider21]

Not 24 hours to my knowledge, somewhere along the line of a thousand years= a day in Gods eyes.
what is a day?

the bible makes use of the word day, year in it. i dont think god was confused. but in any event, what's a day

[RD2191]

2 Peter 3:88 (http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/2-peter/3/#v61003008) However, do not let this escape your notice, beloved ones, that one day is with Jehovah as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day.

[RD2191]

Jehovah=God

[spurraider21]

so was jesus resurrected after 3000 years? :lol

[Blake]

Where the hell did Blake and RG go?

My dick was getting raw. If you want more, I'll need lube and a fluff.

[RD2191]

Psalm 90:44 (http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/psalms/90/#v19090004) For a thousand years are in your eyes just as yesterday when it is past,Just as a watch during the night.

[RD2191]

My dick was getting raw. If you want more, I'll need lube and a fluff.
LOL, acting as if you didn't get your ass handed to you.

[RD2191]

so was jesus resurrected after 3000 years? :lol
No. You aren't reading in context.

[Spurminator]

What does the Bible say about mocking someone's divorce?

[RD2191]

What does the Bible say about mocking someone's divorce?
Does it matter? I'm not saying I'm a christian or that I follow all of the Bibles laws. Hopefully one day I will. As of now, I will keep insulting and mocking Blake. If he stops calling me an idiot then maybe I'll stop.

[spurraider21]

the 1 day = 1000 years for jehova is just to show that God functions outside of the context of time. in fact, according to canon, god created time. he himself is in all times and at all times, or someshit. but Genesis specifically states days

[spurraider21]

No. You aren't reading in context.
so when do you consider a day a day and when do you consider a day 1,000 years. whenever its convenient?

[101A]

The video was meant to be amusing, but I can very easily find Christians saying bad things about atheists, if you like.

I don't claim there is no God. That is a strawman of my position. I merely claim that I have not been presented with evidence supporting that rather extraordinary claim.

I made no claim as to your position; only that the video itself presented a strawman argument as to what (the creator of the video's) stereotypical view of a christian family was.


Reasonable people can believe unreasonable things. I don't generally belittle people who believe things, unless they want to cast the first stone. I tend to give about as much respect as I am given, or at least try to anyway.

The bulk of disrespect in my diatribe was aimed (at least I think) at Christians themselves, and their denial of science and their own (alleged) intelligence.


If anyone wants to cite the Bible, edited or re-written or whathaveyou, as "proof" of something,one has have to also explain the icky stuff, like human sacrifice, murder, rape, and the sheer absurdity of the resurrection and the whole underpinning of Judaism/Christianity, etc.

All of my bible citations were aimed specifically at Christians - I offer them as proof to a non-believer pretty much never (about as unproductive an enterprise as I could imagine). The apparent, obvious, disconnects/immorality etc.. riddled throughout the bible are what they are. I read the bible as a ra bi instructed me to - through interpretation. Jesus taught in parables all the time, if the Bible is his father's work (inspired or whatever), I can only imagine he did so, as well. I am a Christian, so I start with the Gospels - the actual actions and words of Christ, and study the rest of the bible through that lens. Many Christians consider all parts of the bible equal. I do not. It cannot be, after all - there are contradictions all over the place.


Lastly, I would simply ask why God has not revealed himself to me. If a road to damascus vision was good enough for Saul, it should be good enough for me. I want to see angels, and something a lot more convincing than some deeply flawed book. Surely the creator of the universe could do better than that. THinking that we need to learn ancient languages to really understand God makes about as much sense as requiring us to go to the basement bathroom of a building orbiting Alpha Centari to read the demolition notice for our planet. I can't imagine the creator of the universe is a Vogon.

I am afraid you are going to be disappointed, and probably never satisfied that there is a God. I believe, however, that your skepticism will not be looked on as unfavorably as MANY Christians believe. God made you a skeptic, after all. He understands why you question. But if Jesus's sacrifice was enough to get my sorry ass eternal salvation, it's good enough for your's, too. I know your a dad - and you know how you ALWAYS give your kids second, third and fourth chances (1, 2, 3, 3 1/2, 3 3/4, 3 7/8....) I know plenty of good people who happen to be non-believers. I don't think they are going to Hell. Most Christians don't hold that view. Parts of the Bible directly contradict that view....

Regarding learning ancient languages; again that was aimed at Christians and their reliance on the text of the Bible. EVEN reading in Aramaic, Latin, Hebrew or Greek wouldn't matter - the Bible is still (obviously) the work of man - that is as apparent as the fact that evolution happens...

[RD2191]

so when do you consider a day a day and when do you consider a day 1,000 years. whenever its convenient?
No, and you know the answer, you're just acting dumb.

[RD2191]

the 1 day = 1000 years for jehova is just to show that God functions outside of the context of time. in fact, according to canon, god created time. he himself is in all times and at all times, or someshit. but Genesis specifically states days
It states according to God. Ad even if it is days, why does that matter?

[spurraider21]

No, and you know the answer, you're just acting dumb.
i really don't :lol. so is genesis the only instant when 1 day = 1,000 years or are there other exceptions i should know about. i'm just confused why he couldn't say years, ages, aeons... but instead said day if that's not what he meant

[RD2191]

i really don't :lol. so is genesis the only instant when 1 day = 1,000 years or are there other exceptions i should know about. i'm just confused why he couldn't say years, ages, aeons... but instead said day if that's not what he meant
Like I said, if you're reading out of context you won't know what day is referring to.

[spurraider21]

Like I said, if you're reading out of context you won't know what day is referring to.
how do you know that in the context of genesis that day = millenium?

[RD2191]

how do you know that in the context of genesis that day = millenium?
Because it is referring to "day" in Gods viewpoint.

[Big Empty]

I believe this whole universe was created by intelligent design. The way everything works to me no matter what science sais is just too much. I also believe science and religion can co-exist. I dont take the bible word for word since it was created by man baed off witness accounts and years later after his death it seems. Just the fact that it was a woman who found Christ when he rose from the dead speaks volumes to me. If it was a fairy tale back then i would imagine it would be written that it was a man that discovered first he rose. But theres a joke that sums it all up for me. Two brothers, one a preist, the other a scientist come home and find some chocolate cookies on the table. The son of the scientist wondered where they came from and his father quickly answered, "it appears flour and sugar were mixed and baked for an hour in 350 degrees. The preacher simply answered, Yea your grandma made them. lol

[Blake]

LOL, acting as if you didn't get your ass handed to you.

You're too retarded to know my e-semen is deep inside you.

I almost feel guilty.

[RD2191]

You're too retarded to know my e-semen is deep inside yours.

I almost feel guilty.
So now you're gay? Gross.

[spurraider21]

Because is referring to "day" in Gods viewpoint.
in god's viewpoint he also rested on the 7th day (in the same context as the other days of genesis), but we all know he didn't rest for 1000 years because he interacted with adam/eve and the consequent generations

[Blake]

So now you're gay? Gross.

You had your chance to say no means no.

[RD2191]

You had your chance to say no means no.
Fag

[xmas1997]

The video was meant to be amusing, but I can very easily find Christians saying bad things about atheists, if you like.

I don't claim there is no God. That is a strawman of my position. I merely claim that I have not been presented with evidence supporting that rather extraordinary claim.

KayBys8gaJY

Reasonable people can believe unreasonable things. I don't generally belittle people who believe things, unless they want to cast the first stone. I tend to give about as much respect as I am given, or at least try to anyway.

If anyone wants to cite the Bible, edited or re-written or whathaveyou, as "proof" of something,one has have to also explain the icky stuff, like human sacrifice, murder, rape, and the sheer absurdity of the resurrection and the whole underpinning of Judaism/Christianity, etc.

M1G_NkEZReg

Lastly, I would simply ask why God has not revealed himself to me. If a road to damascus vision was good enough for Saul, it should be good enough for me. I want to see angels, and something a lot more convincing than some deeply flawed book. Surely the creator of the universe could do better than that. THinking that we need to learn ancient languages to really understand God makes about as much sense as requiring us to go to the basement bathroom of a building orbiting Alpha Centari to read the demolition notice for our planet. I can't imagine the creator of the universe is a Vogon.


Excellent rational reasonable points, all of which I agree with.
Having read them, I find it hard to believe we would ever have anything of contention between us.
Keep it coming.
Did you read what I had to say on the matter concerning fanatics?

[RD2191]

in god's viewpoint he also rested on the 7th day (in the same context as the other days of genesis), but we all know he didn't rest for 1000 years because he interacted with adam/eve and the consequent generations
Things get a little hairy here, I don't believe all of the Bible is entirely chronological.

[spurraider21]

Things get a little hairy here, I don't believe all of the Bible is entirely chronological.
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m25bwdgbYP1qb647mo1_400.gif

[RD2191]

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m25bwdgbYP1qb647mo1_400.gif
:lol

[spurraider21]

yeah, as i figured. it all boils down to picking and choosing, taking things literally or figuratively based on convenience of the matter or the argument at hand. its ridiculous and makes it impossible to have a legitimate conversation

[spurraider21]

:lol
:lol its truly how i felt when i read that response

[RD2191]

yeah, as i figured. it all boils down to picking and choosing, taking things literally or figuratively based on convenience of the matter or the argument at hand. its ridiculous and makes it impossible to have a legitimate conversation
Not really, that is your opinion. There is no picking and choosing, if you really want answers you will find them in the Bible. And picking and choosing is the name of the game in "Evolution".

[spurraider21]

you cant sit here and tell me the bible is the word of god, has all the answers, is absolute, and then spit in its face by saying "well god didn't mean what he said when talking about the 7th day."

:lol saying its not chronological when he literally says "on the fifth day, on the sixth day, on the seventh day"

[RD2191]

Really though, I respect your beliefs, but if you want answers you can find them. That's all there really is to it.

[RD2191]

The answers are there if you look for them, you don't want to though. You're reading with an agenda.

[RD2191]

And your question doesn't really make sense, all the Bible says is that God rested on the 7th day. It also doesn't say how long it took to interact with Adam and Eve.

[Clipper Nation]

:lol at quoting Bible verses to back up your points.... you might as well quote Harry Potter or Alice in Wonderland, all three are equally fictional....

[Blake]

Fag

You're a pussy so no.

[RD2191]

You're a pussy so no.
You're the one fantasizing about other men. Queer.

[~O~]

Humans have learned to date objects and rocks based on dead animals 14 dating and even forensics. Carbon 14 dating is something everyone should remember for public and private school days. When I was 19, its came to my understanding as an adult that the basic knowledge learned and loathed in school was for the greater good for college. Menial things such as Carbon dating and Science theories and elements didn't matter to me as a kid.

What did matter to me was Dexters Lab!!!!!! VICE CITY!! OMG...New XBOX!!! Halo!!...Club club party!! Have to get LAID!!!

I was so young. Forensics is something you could learn off watching investigation discovery. They've used it to date bodies after death. They even go as far as to date the bugs that fed off the corpse during to date its death.

This is completely based on time. Time is something that is considered uncontrollable. Archaeology has been performed for about 2500 years Thus, they have two thousand years to show that their process of dating works. Archaeology has even gotten more advanced with technology making their precision's more accurate and undeniable. Archaea ~ kingdoms and microorganisms.

Studying evolution is studying the trends of time. You will never see evolution happen. Evolution takes small steps through mutation. These small steps take millions of years. I could even say that the way our bodies have become immune to diseases over time is a small step in evolution. Hell, I could say that we living healthier lives are making our strengthening our offspring..another small evolution.

As far as I'm concerned, evolution is undeniable. You see animals everyday and you look at them having very similar traits to able to live off of just like as you and I Eyes to breath, water they drink, food to eat, nutrients to grow. They have hearts, minds, bones, muscles and all the basics as we do to adapt and thrive within their environment. Some of our faces even resemble..these animals in an uncanny strange way. Thus..breathing life to evolution.

For people who question evolution, what other approach would you use to determine how we've become how humans came to be. As far as I'm concerned....we've been nowhere but here for millennium after millennium. The Earth has given us every hint that we all belong to one another. We need each other to survive. The Earth is a tomb of all life known and unknown. This Earth and the moon are the only things we can derive evidence from in which archaeologists can see and measure through methods of research.

[spurraider21]

And your question doesn't really make sense, all the Bible says is that God rested on the 7th day. It also doesn't say how long it took to interact with Adam and Eve.
which question doesn't make sense? he created man one day, and rested the next day. where was this 1,000 year nap? either he rested for 1,000 years or a day is a day. the context is clearly the same as the other 6 days

[RD2191]

And like I said before, I'm not claiming to know everything about the Bible. I'm sure you can find someone more knowledgeable than me about the Bible, but if you really want an answer give me time and I will give you one.

[Blake]

You're the one fantasizing about other men. Queer.

no I see you as a huge gaping vagina.

[RD2191]

no I see you as a huge gaping vagina.
Is that what your ex wife reduced you to? Fantasizing about other men online. Poor bastard.

[RD2191]

which question doesn't make sense? he created man one day, and rested the next day. where was this 1,000 year nap? either he rested for 1,000 years or a day is a day. the context is clearly the same as the other 6 days
I don't see what you're trying to get at. It says he created man on the 6th and then rested on the 7th. That's all it says. It doesn't say how long it took to talk to man.

[spurraider21]

Really though, I respect your beliefs, but if you want answers you can find them. That's all there really is to it.
you cant say you respect them then say "lol fish to human." i also dont really have beliefs, per se. i do my best to draw conclusions based on what is presented, and i'm not afraid to accept that there are things we just don't know yet. there was a time people didn't know wtf lightning was. there was a time we had no understanding at all about matter. atoms, elements, etc.

The answers are there if you look for them, you don't want to though. You're reading with an agenda.
the issue is you seem to be ignoring inconsistencies/fallacies because you yourself are reading with an agenda.

[spurraider21]

I don't see what you're trying to get at. It says he created man on the 6th and then rested on the 7th. That's all it says. It doesn't say how long it took to talk to man.
you told me that in the context of the story of genesis, a day was 1,000 years or so. where is this milennium long gap?

God told Noah that it would rain for 40 days and 40 nights. those were god's word. from God's perspective. did he mean 40,000 years?

[RD2191]

you told me that in the context of the story of genesis, a day was 1,000 years or so. where is this milennium long gap?

God told Noah that it would rain for 40 days and 40 nights. those were god's word. from God's perspective. did he mean 40,000 years?
No, because he was speaking to Noah. Noah is a man, not God. If he said 40 days then he meant 40 days according to Noah, a human, not God.

[spurraider21]

1,000 years is a fucking long time, especially if the young earth model has the earth at something like 6-10 thousand years old. just curious as to which part of biblical history was god absent for 1,000 years

[RD2191]

you cant say you respect them then say "lol fish to human." i also dont really have beliefs, per se. i do my best to draw conclusions based on what is presented, and i'm not afraid to accept that there are things we just don't know yet. there was a time people didn't know wtf lightning was. there was a time we had no understanding at all about matter. atoms, elements, etc.

the issue is you seem to be ignoring inconsistencies/fallacies because you yourself are reading with an agenda.
What fallacies?

[spurraider21]

No, because he was speaking to Noah. Noah is a man, not God. If he said 40 days then he meant 40 days according to Noah, a human, not God.
well, the bible is the word of god told to a human (it was, of course, written by human hand)

[RD2191]

1,000 years is a fucking long time, especially if the young earth model has the earth at something like 6-10 thousand years old. just curious as to which part of biblical history was god absent for 1,000 years
What are you even talking about? What point of created man on the 6th and rested on the 7th do you not understand?

[xmas1997]

I made no claim as to your position; only that the video itself presented a strawman argument as to what (the creator of the video's) stereotypical view of a christian family was.



The bulk of disrespect in my diatribe was aimed (at least I think) at Christians themselves, and their denial of science and their own (alleged) intelligence.



All of my bible citations were aimed specifically at Christians - I offer them as proof to a non-believer pretty much never (about as unproductive an enterprise as I could imagine). The apparent, obvious, disconnects/immorality etc.. riddled throughout the bible are what they are. I read the bible as a ra bi instructed me to - through interpretation. Jesus taught in parables all the time, if the Bible is his father's work (inspired or whatever), I can only imagine he did so, as well. I am a Christian, so I start with the Gospels - the actual actions and words of Christ, and study the rest of the bible through that lens. Many Christians consider all parts of the bible equal. I do not. It cannot be, after all - there are contradictions all over the place.



I am afraid you are going to be disappointed, and probably never satisfied that there is a God. I believe, however, that your skepticism will not be looked on as unfavorably as MANY Christians believe. God made you a skeptic, after all. He understands why you question. But if Jesus's sacrifice was enough to get my sorry ass eternal salvation, it's good enough for your's, too. I know your a dad - and you know how you ALWAYS give your kids second, third and fourth chances (1, 2, 3, 3 1/2, 3 3/4, 3 7/8....) I know plenty of good people who happen to be non-believers. I don't think they are going to Hell. Most Christians don't hold that view. Parts of the Bible directly contradict that view....

Regarding learning ancient languages; again that was aimed at Christians and their reliance on the text of the Bible. EVEN reading in Aramaic, Latin, Hebrew or Greek wouldn't matter - the Bible is still (obviously) the work of man - that is as apparent as the fact that evolution happens...

I have always said on this site that I am a Christian and more specifically a Catholic, but I have no insecurities in that regard that compels me to defend my faith from the more fanatical atheists on here or the fanatical theists on here.
I was once atheistic or agnostic myself too so I understand where they are coming from.
But all along I was seeking the truth, and I feel I am one of the fortunate ones to have found it.
It didn't come to me in the usual methods as in books or preachers or religious people, rather it came from deep within myself.

You mention that you know plenty of good people who happen to be atheists. So do I. And I know plenty of very bad people who are Christians.
The good Christians I know vary in their beliefs but almost none of them would ever say that an atheist is for sure going to Hell. Even Pope Francis says an atheist can go to Heaven because we are all judged by our ACTS. In other words, anyone can get there depending on how we live our lives and doing the WORK of God even though we do not believe in Him.
Of course, an atheist also does not believe in Heaven and Hell so to them it is not an issue as long as they lead a good, productive, and giving life.
As I said before, when you get down to the basics, it isn't necessarily what you believe or Who you believe in, it is rather HOW you live your life.
Most of the atheists and theists I know have no problems with each other, they are secure within themselves and get along with each other famously, and would never ridicule the other for their individual beliefs or disbeliefs.
Those who do this, like on here, are as far from being God like and human as you can get.
And I dare say they are probably very unhappy and goalless in their real lives as they portray themselves to be in this forum.
But it is their own fault and no others.
Because they are free to be whatever they wish, they control their own destinies.

[Blake]

Is that what your ex wife reduced you to? Fantasizing about other men online. Poor bastard.

this deep seeded hatred towards gays says at least one of two things, maybe both:

1) you're a closet homosexual that's fronting

2) you're incredibly unintelligent

now fantasize some more about my sexual orientation, Bible beater.

[spurraider21]

What are you even talking about? What point of created man on the 6th and rested on the 7th do you not understand?
you told me these "days" are roughly 1,000 years though

[RD2191]

Day when speaking about God= a thousand years.
Day when speaking about man means 24 hour day.

Even today "day" has different meaning when used in different context.

I could say "back in my day", does that mean a specific date or various days in general?

[RD2191]

you told me these "days" are roughly 1,000 years though
I did, what is your point?

[spurraider21]

Day when speaking about God= a thousand years.
Day when speaking about man means 24 hour day.

Even today 'day" has different meaning when used in different context.

I could say "back in my day", does that mean a specific date or various days in general?
so how can you possibly know when a day actually meant a day, when it meant a milennium? for all you know, god in fact meant a single earth day in the book of genesis and he literally made the earth and life in a week. maybe in the book of genesis, god meant an hour when he said day, and that he claims to have made earth and life in a span of 7 hours

[spurraider21]

I did, what is your point?
so with that line of reasoning God rested for roughly 1,000 years (the 7th day, where day is roughly 1,000 years)

[RD2191]

so how can you possibly know when a day actually meant a day, when it meant a milennium? for all you know, god in fact meant a single earth day in the book of genesis and he literally made the earth and life in a week.
Because the author is referring to "day" in Gods viewpoint, not a mans.

[spurraider21]

Because the author is referring to "day" in Gods viewpoint, not a mans.
when god told the author a day, he meant 1,000 years, but when he told Noah a day, he meant a day? how could you possibly know that. who are you to tell what viewpoint god was talking in?

[Blake]

I did, what is your point?

So when the Bible says Adam lived to be 960 years old, are we still using day = 1000 years math?

:lol you're so retarded

[RD2191]

when god told the author a day, he meant 1,000 years, but when he told Noah a day, he meant a day? how could you possibly know that. who are you to tell what viewpoint god was talking in?
Because they were talking about God, how can I make it any clearer? God was talking to Noah, a man, why would he tell Noah 40 days and mean 40,000 days when he knew Noah was a man and to him day meant around a 24 hour period.

[spurraider21]

apparently robdiaz is a prophet who can tell us when god was talking in a certain viewpoint, and when he was talking in a different viewpoint. only the great robdiaz knows when God meant day = day or when day = 1,000 years

[RD2191]

So when the Bible says Adam lived to be 960 years old, are we still using day = 1000 years math?

:lol you're so retarded
No, because it is referring to a human. LOL YOUR EX WIFE

[spurraider21]

Because they were talking about God, how can I make it any clearer? God was talking to Noah, a man, why would he tell Noah 40 days and mean 40,000 days when he knew Noah was a man and to him day meant around a 24 hour period.
God was talking to the author, a man. why would he tell the author 1 day and mean 1,000 days when he knew the author was a man and to him day meant around a 24 hour period

[silverblk mystix]

So when the Bible says Adam lived to be 960 years old, are we still using day = 1000 years math?

:lol you're so retarded


Wait,

you enrolled your kid in a religious school where she will learn exactly what you are labeling someone "retarded" for -


I think any reasonable person can conclude that your retard-ness will pretty much cause your own kid a lot of grief!


:lmao:lmao:lmao

[RD2191]

Psalm 90:4

4 (http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/psalms/90/#v19090004) For a thousand years are in your eyes just as yesterday when it is past,Just as a watch during the night.

[spurraider21]

God was talking to Noah, a man, why would he tell Noah 40 days and mean 40,000 days when he knew Noah was a man and to him day meant around a 24 hour period.


God was talking to the author, a man. why would he tell the author 1 day and mean 1,000 days when he knew the author was a man and to him day meant around a 24 hour period

:lol throwing your own logic back at your face
:lol responding with more from Psalms

[Blake]

No, because it is referring to a human. LOL YOUR EX WIFE

Lol making shit up

Lol retard

[RD2191]

God was talking to the author, a man. why would he tell the author 1 day and mean 1,000 days when he knew the author was a man and to him day meant around a 24 hour period

I don't know, but it later states that a day in Gods eyes is 1 thousand years. So that's that.

[RD2191]

:lol throwing your own logic back at your face
:lol responding with more from Psalms
What's funny? You're just acting stupid because you have no rational argument.

[RD2191]

Lol making shit up

Lol retard
How did it feel when you had no one to talk to?

[spurraider21]

What's funny? You're just acting stupid because you have no rational argument.
i have literally copy-pasted your argument and presented it back to you. are you suggesting that your argument was irrational?

[RD2191]

i have literally copy-pasted your argument and presented it back to you. are you suggesting that your argument was irrational?
What argument? A day to God is a thousand years, a day to a human is 24 hours. There is nothing for you to argue. Why God didn't tell the author of Genesis that 1 day in his eyes is a thousand years I do not know. Later, we learn that a day to God is a thousand years. There is nothing to argue. All of the answers are there if you look for them.

[Blake]

Wait,

you enrolled your kid in a religious school where she will learn exactly what you are labeling someone "retarded" for -


I think any reasonable person can conclude that your retard-ness will pretty much cause your own kid a lot of grief!


:lmao:lmao:lmao

It's a private school that doesn't put up with public middle school kids that disrupt learning.

Teaching God instead of evolution is retarded, but the pros outweigh the cons. She'll thank me later in life.

But lol at you trying to make this into something. Keep trying. :tu

[RD2191]

Do you understand that there are different definition of day? This is like reading an old book and seeing "Blake was a very gay man", am I to assume that Blake likes men?

[Blake]

How did it feel when you had no one to talk to?

:cry it must feel good to know you have God to talk to :cry

[spurraider21]

What argument? A day to God is a thousand years, a day to a human is 24 hours. There is nothing for you to argue. Why God didn't tell the author of Genesis that 1 day in his eyes is a thousand years I do not know. Later, we learn that a day to God is a thousand years. There is nothing to argue. All of the answers are there if you look for them.


God was talking to Noah, a man, why would he tell Noah 40 days and mean 40,000 days when he knew Noah was a man and to him day meant around a 24 hour period.


God was talking to the author, a man. why would he tell the author 1 day and mean 1,000 days when he knew the author was a man and to him day meant around a 24 hour period

[RD2191]

Wait,

you enrolled your kid in a religious school where she will learn exactly what you are labeling someone "retarded" for -


I think any reasonable person can conclude that your retard-ness will pretty much cause your own kid a lot of grief!


:lmao:lmao:lmao
:lmao:lmaoBlake is a real winner isn't he. I hate gays so let me take my son to live in San Francisco. :lmao

[RD2191]

You still don't have an argument. I already answered your questions and you have nothing left.

[RD2191]

What argument? A day to God is a thousand years, a day to a human is 24 hours. There is nothing for you to argue. Why God didn't tell the author of Genesis that 1 day in his eyes is a thousand years I do not know. Later, we learn that a day to God is a thousand years. There is nothing to argue. All of the answers are there if you look for them.

[RD2191]

Do you understand that there are different definition of day? This is like reading an old book and seeing "Blake was a very gay man", am I to assume that Blake likes men?

[silverblk mystix]

It's a private school that doesn't put up with public middle school kids that disrupt learning.

The pros outweigh the cons.

But lol at you trying to make this into something. Keep trying. :tu


Actually, you condescend against people that believe anything in the bible -

then you sentence your kid to being subject to having the bible shoved down her throat -

Pretty stupid? Fuck yeah

Hypocritical? uh fuckin' A

Retarded? Check


Ignorant? uh huh


Hate your own kid? You decide


Vindictive against the kid because her mom - chose other dick over your tiny one - yup


Shitty hypocritical person who judges others and condescends - and then puts his child in bed with those he hates the most? Oh buddy - you got some serious, serious and fucked up issues!





:rollin:rollin:rollin

[xmas1997]

I think it is ludicrous to interpret the bible, any part of it, literally. The same goes for the other great books of other religions.
They were meant to be frameworks, guidelines, and pathways in order to provide us with a basic understanding of deeper mysteries that can only be fully understood by looking (seeking?) within each of us.
To truly have "faith", one has to Know truth.
The only way to really Know a truth, is to examine it within our minds until it makes perfect logical sense. Otherwise it is just hearsay, taking someone else' word for it. The latter is not Truth. At best it can be rumor or conjecture.
For something to be an ironclad truth, it must come from study from each persons deep introspection.
Once that process is done, then and only then can it be what some call an "unshakeable faith".

There is absolutely NO WAY any person can convince an atheist to be a theist. And the same is true conversely.
The only true way to know the truth of God, is for each individual to look within themselves and examine the truth inside him or herself. It is a purely "subjective" experience.
And that experience is the ONLY way for each person to TRUST they have found that truth to the extent that it becomes Faith.

"Seek, and ye shall find" should have been "seek within oneself, in the deep recesses of your discriminating mind, and you will find enough trust in order to know beyond any doubt, that you have found the kingdom of heaven, God".

[spurraider21]

Do you understand that there are different definition of day? This is like reading an old book and seeing "Blake was a very gay man", am I to assume that Blake likes men?
and since when did you become the great translator who is able to definitively tell me when God meant day, when he meant millenium

[RD2191]

And even if it means 6 24 hour days how does that in any way change anything?

[silverblk mystix]

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by robdiaz2191 (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7530961#post7530961)
Do you understand that there are different definition of day? This is like reading an old book and seeing "Blake was a very gay man", am I to assume that Blake likes men?


I will assume for you -


yeah Blake is a sperm-burper!



:rollin:rollin

[RD2191]

and since when did you become the great translator who is able to definitively tell me when God meant day, when he meant millenium
Because according to the Bible a day in Gods eyes is a thousand years. Or a thousand years to God= 1 day.

[spurraider21]

And even if it means 6 24 hour days how does that in any way change anything?
if it meant 6 24 hour days then you are implying that all animals that ever lived are no more than 24 hours older than man. meaning man coexisted with dinosaurs, as well as all the other species that we have discovered in the fossil record, such as homo habilis, homo erectus, etc

[spurraider21]

Because according to the Bible a day in Gods eyes is a thousand years. Or a thousand years to God= 1 day.
god exists outside of time... 1000 years is not a literal equivalent

[RD2191]

Actually, you condescend against people that believe anything in the bible -

then you sentence your kid to being subject to having the bible shoved down her throat -

Pretty stupid? Fuck yeah

Hypocritical? uh fuckin' A

Retarded? Check


Ignorant? uh huh


Hate your own kid? You decide


Vindictive against the kid because her mom - chose other dick over your tiny one - yup


Shitty hypocritical person who judges others and condescends - and then puts his child in bed with those he hates the most? Oh buddy - you got some serious, serious and fucked up issues!





:rollin:rollin:rollin
:wowComplete and utter destruction.

[RD2191]

god exists outside of time... 1000 years is not a literal equivalent
So then how does 1 day = 24 hours? :lmao

[RD2191]

Self ownage is epic, imo.

[Blake]

Do you understand that there are different definition of day? This is like reading an old book and seeing "Blake was a very gay man", am I to assume that Blake likes men?

Oh look. rob talking about gays.

[RD2191]

And once again, I am by no means an expert on the subject, it may take time but I will eventually be able to answer even more of your questions. And this goes to anyone who has questions.

[Blake]

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by robdiaz2191 (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7530961#post7530961)
Do you understand that there are different definition of day? This is like reading an old book and seeing "Blake was a very gay man", am I to assume that Blake likes men?


I will assume for you -


yeah Blake is a sperm-burper!



:rollin:rollin






Oh look. Sbm imagining me doing gay things.

[Blake]

And once again, I am by no means an expert on the subject, it may take time but I will eventually be able to answer even more of your questions. And this goes to anyone who has questions.

And you'll be ready with a retarded answer

[RD2191]

I think it is ludicrous to interpret the bible, any part of it, literally. The same goes for the other great books of other religions.
They were meant to be frameworks, guidelines, and pathways in order to provide us with a basic understanding of deeper mysteries that can only be fully understood by looking (seeking?) within each of us.
To truly have "faith", one has to Know truth.
The only way to really Know a truth, is to examine it within our minds until it makes perfect logical sense. Otherwise it is just hearsay, taking someone else' word for it. The latter is not Truth. At best it can be rumor or conjecture.
For something to be an ironclad truth, it must come from study from each persons deep introspection.
Once that process is done, then and only then can it be what some call an "unshakeable faith".

There is absolutely NO WAY any person can convince an atheist to be a theist. And the same is true conversely.
The only true way to know the truth of God, is for each individual to look within themselves and examine the truth inside him or herself. It is a purely "subjective" experience.
And that experience is the ONLY way for each person to TRUST they have found that truth to the extent that it becomes Faith.

"Seek, and ye shall find" should have been "seek within oneself, in the deep recesses of your discriminating mind, and you will find enough trust in order to know beyond any doubt, that you have found the kingdom of heaven, God".
Some parts are to be taken literally and some aren't. The people arguing with me really have no knowledge of what they're reading. The Bible has different contexts, translations, and meanings. You have to study for years and ask God for guidance to help you understand. This is like me reading an article about Evolution and claiming I'm an expert on the subject.

[Blake]

Actually, you condescend against people that believe anything in the bible -

then you sentence your kid to being subject to having the bible shoved down her throat -

Pretty stupid? Fuck yeah

Hypocritical? uh fuckin' A

Retarded? Check


Ignorant? uh huh


Hate your own kid? You decide


Vindictive against the kid because her mom - chose other dick over your tiny one - yup


Shitty hypocritical person who judges others and condescends - and then puts his child in bed with those he hates the most? Oh buddy - you got some serious, serious and fucked up issues!





:rollin:rollin:rollin

Public schools suck worse than a Christian private school.

It's as simple as that.

You're a desperate idiot.

[spurraider21]

So then how does 1 day = 24 hours? :lmao
because that's how long it takes the earth to rotate on its axis. how is that self-ownage?

[RD2191]

And you'll be ready with a retarded answer
Bro, you're a retarded and pathetic person. No one likes you. Not even on here or in real life seeing as you had no one to talk to when your wife was cheating on you. The definition of loser. Your opinions don't mean shit.

[RD2191]

because that's how long it takes the earth to rotate on its axis
So then according to your logic how do you take a day to mean 24 hours when God exists outside of time?

[Blake]

Some parts are to be taken literally and some aren't.

Right, the parts you don't like, you get rid of.

it's a pussy move.

[Blake]

So then according to your logic how do you take a day to mean 24 hours when God exists outside of time?

So then God didn't know how to translate the word "day" properly to man.

[spurraider21]

So then according to your logic how do you take a day to mean 24 hours when God exists outside of time?
at some point you will realize that there is no logical course that points to the judeo-christian God without their being all sorts of inconsistencies and fallacies when you start asking the difficult questions.

did God actually make the earth in 7 earth days? or did he actually rest for 1,000 years? its gotta be one of those two

[Blake]

Bro, you're a retarded and pathetic person. No one likes you. Not even on here or in real life seeing as you had no one to talk to when your wife was cheating on you. The definition of loser. Your opinions don't mean shit.

Retard, I'm not here to make friends with dumb shits like you.

I'm just here to make fun of your idiotic logic and reasoning skills.

It's especially fun to do after each time you post "lol evolution" and bust out Bible verses.

:lmao rob

[RD2191]

You still aren't making sense. God rested on the 7th day, that is all it says.

And you are very very wrong.

[spurraider21]

You still aren't making sense. God rested on the 7th day, that is all it says.

And you are very very wrong.
and you said that these days in genesis were about 1,000 years long. so if god rested on the 7th day then he rested for 1,000 years by your own account. i also dont see why an all-powerful being would need 6,000 years to make the earth and life :lol

[RD2191]

Retard, I'm not here to make friends with dumb shits like you.

I'm just here to make fun of your idiotic logic and reasoning skills.

It's especially fun to do after each time you post "lol evolution" and bust out Bible verses.

:lmao rob

Doesn't believe in God, sends kid to Christian school. Scumbag Blake ladies and gents.

[RD2191]

and you said that these days in genesis were about 1,000 years long. so if god rested on the 7th day then he rested for 1,000 years by your own account
Yes, I already agreed on that part. So what?

[xmas1997]

I believe this whole universe was created by intelligent design. The way everything works to me no matter what science sais is just too much. I also believe science and religion can co-exist. I dont take the bible word for word since it was created by man baed off witness accounts and years later after his death it seems. Just the fact that it was a woman who found Christ when he rose from the dead speaks volumes to me. If it was a fairy tale back then i would imagine it would be written that it was a man that discovered first he rose. But theres a joke that sums it all up for me. Two brothers, one a preist, the other a scientist come home and find some chocolate cookies on the table. The son of the scientist wondered where they came from and his father quickly answered, "it appears flour and sugar were mixed and baked for an hour in 350 degrees. The preacher simply answered, Yea your grandma made them. lol


And Why do you Believe this?

Because you examined it enough inside your mind to Know it to be the truth, and not because you took someone else word for it.

You are not quoting someone's scripture, someone's pulpit preaching, nor some vague idea discussed over a beer at a bar.

No, the "idea", the original spark or glimmer, may have come to you from any of those "outside" sources, but the "belief" came from much inner thought and introspection.
And from that blossomed your more elaborate truth. No one can give that to you, they can merely "inspire" you to delve "within" yourself so that you may Know these truths for yourself, "own" them for yourself, and have faith that they are for real.
I believe you are correct, and that everything is "connected", nothing is disconnected, because if it is, then it can not exist.
The "material" world all around us is not really as we see it, science has shown us that everything is "energy", but we need high powered machines to see just a fraction of this energy that makes the material world "matter" to our limited eyes.
Thus everything can be reduced down to energy and that energy is eternal.
Is it sentient too?
I have no proof of it, but if the fact that we are sentient is any indication, and the fact that at the level that we are all energy and connected, then one can only surmise that this inter connectivity is also sentient.
And from there one can easily surmise the rest in a logical reasonable manner.
Is This God?
No one can answer that question beyond a shadow of doubt. It has to be examined by each of us in the inner recesses of each of our minds to know to the point that each of us can fully trust it to be a belief.
But once that is done, then It has the all knowing ability to be faith.
And with Faith the size of a mustard seed, you can do, make, accomplish, create, anything that you can imagine.

[spurraider21]

Yes, I already agreed on that part. So what?
you agree that God rested for 1,000 years?

[Blake]

Doesn't believe in God, sends kid to Christian school. Scumbag Blake ladies and gents.

I like your analogy of keeping your kids away from San Francisco because you hate gays.

Lol outstanding way to teach bigotry to your kids.

[RD2191]

you agree that God rested for 1,000 years?
A day to God is 1,000 years from what I have read and studied. You're acting as if I'm the end all be all when it comes to answering these questions. As if there aren't any other people who you can ask. I'm pretty sure there are people out there who can give you all of the answers. But then again you don't want answers. You just want to argue and go on about how everything in the Bible is wrong. Which it isn't.

[spurraider21]

you literally JUST said "yes, I agreed on that part" and now you are backpedaling with this last post

[spurraider21]

did god rest for 1,000 years?

[RD2191]

Who said I was backpedaling? God rested for 1,000 years IMO.

[RD2191]

I like your analogy of keeping your kids away from San Francisco because you hate gays.

Lol outstanding way to teach bigotry to your kids.
You mean teach my kids that it probably isn't the best idea to ram a cock in your ass? Well I'll be, guess I'm just a bigot.

[spurraider21]

Who said I was backpedaling? God rested for 1,000 years IMO.
:lol big fella must have been tired

[RD2191]

Creating the Heavens and Earth ain't easy.

[xmas1997]

Time is "relative".
Someone traveling at a great velocity will experience time differently than someone going very slow.
The 1000 years being a day for God I seriously doubt was meant to be taken literally.
Only in modern times did man agree to use 24 hours as the generally world wide view of what a day actually is, and that view is flawed to a certain extent, thus why we have Leap Years, to make up the difference.
See Einstein's theory of relativity.
But it is not a stretch to say that time in and of itself could not exist without matter to coexist with.
Both are part and parcel of the same thing, energy.
And all of this makes up God, an All-sentient Entity who created it all because all of it is of Him.

[xmas1997]

If those early humans thought that a day to God was a thousand years, then who are we to say it isn't?

We have only written accounts to know for sure, unless you examine it deep within yourself to come to a more accurate conclusion.
So can those very early written accounts be trusted?
I dare say no one knows the answer until they die.
But science is working on it.
It is useless to ask what is a day to God because first, you have to believe in God, and second you have to believe that God would explain it to you.
Without the first, you cannot understand the second.

[RD2191]

If those early humans thought that a day to God was a thousand years, then who are we to say it isn't?

We have only written accounts to know for sure, unless you examine it deep within yourself to come to a more accurate conclusion.
So can those very early written accounts be trusted?
I dare say no one knows the answer until they die.
But science is working on it.
It is useless to ask what is a day to God because first, you have to believe in God, and second you have to believe that God would explain it to you.
Without the first, you cannot understand the second.
Yup yup yup.

[silverblk mystix]

Doesn't believe in God, sends kid to Christian school. Scumbag Blake ladies and gents.


pwnage


rofl

[RandomGuy]

Exodus 19:5,6
5 (http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/exodus/19/#v2019005) Now if you will strictly obey my voice and keep my covenant, you will certainly become my special propertyout of all peoples, for the whole earth belongs to me.6 (http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/exodus/19/#v2019006) You will become to me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words that you are to say to the Israelites.”

Are we Israelites?


Jesus Fulfills the Law
17"Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18"For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.…

No. But I doubt this Jesus would agree that the old testament would not apply to us.

You don't get a pass, because the TEN commandments are part of that. Get rid of one, and the ten that most christians like to put forth go too.

Sorry.

[xmas1997]

pwnage


rofl

Silly blake, knows not what he does, fodder for the amusement of others.
Just ask his ex.
:lol

[RD2191]

No. But I doubt this Jesus would agree that the old testament would not apply to us.

You don't get a pass, because the TEN commandments are part of that. Get rid of one, and the ten that most christians like to put forth go too.

Sorry.
We aren't Jews. Mosaic law does not apply to us. Just because they don't apply to us however, does not mean that they aren't beneficial to modern Christians/believers.

[xmas1997]

According to Mel Brooks a couple of the tablets fell out of Moses' hands and broke into bits.
All that were left were the Ten Commandments out of say twenty or thirty.
:lmao

[RD2191]

Actually RG, I could be wrong about that, when Jesus returned he told his followers that they needed to follow the ten commandments, he didn't mention other Mosaic laws iirc. I could be wrong though.

[RD2191]

16 (http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/matthew/19/#v40019016) Now look! someone came up to him and said: “Teacher, what good must I do to gain everlasting life?”+ (http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/mcr/8901961/) 17 (http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/matthew/19/#v40019017) He said to him: “Why do you ask me about what is good? One there is who is good.+ (http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/mcr/8901989/) If, though, you want to enter into life, observe the commandments continually.”+ (http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/mcr/8902004/) 18 (http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/matthew/19/#v40019018) He said to him: “Which ones?” Jesus said: “You must not murder,+ (http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/mcr/8902036/) you must not commit adultery,+ (http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/mcr/8902055/) you must not steal,+ (http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/mcr/8902075/) you must not bear false witness,+ (http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/mcr/8902089/) 19 (http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/matthew/19/#v40019019) honor your father and your mother,+ (http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/mcr/8902121/) and you must love your neighbor as yourself.”+ (http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/mcr/8902141/) 20 (http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/matthew/19/#v40019020)

[xmas1997]

Some of the missing ones were:

Thou shalt not have slavery.
Thou shalt be allowed to marry many wives.
Thou shalt not commit pedophilia.
Thou shalt not commit beastiality.
And thou shalt not smoke cigarettes.

To name a few of the missing ones.
I'm sure you can come up with the rest.

[RD2191]

Matthew 19:16-19

[RandomGuy]

The answers are there if you look for them, you don't want to though. You're reading with an agenda.

I read the bible plenty.

Maybe you can answer this one:

There are quite a few instances where Yahweh orders the wholesale slaughter of towns.

Joshua 8:1-29
Joshua 6:20-21
Judges 20:48
Exodus 32:26-29

Etc, etc.

If you were ordered by the Lord to hack children to death, would you do it?

Remember:
You can't know God's plan, He could ask this of you tomorrow.

[RandomGuy]

16 (http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/matthew/19/#v40019016) Now look! someone came up to him and said: “Teacher, what good must I do to gain everlasting life?”+ (http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/mcr/8901961/) 17 (http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/matthew/19/#v40019017) He said to him: “Why do you ask me about what is good? One there is who is good.+ (http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/mcr/8901989/) If, though, you want to enter into life, observe the commandments continually.”+ (http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/mcr/8902004/) 18 (http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/matthew/19/#v40019018) He said to him: “Which ones?” Jesus said: “You must not murder,+ (http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/mcr/8902036/) you must not commit adultery,+ (http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/mcr/8902055/) you must not steal,+ (http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/mcr/8902075/) you must not bear false witness,+ (http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/mcr/8902089/) 19 (http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/matthew/19/#v40019019) honor your father and your mother,+ (http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/mcr/8902121/) and you must love your neighbor as yourself.”+ (http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/mcr/8902141/) 20 (http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/matthew/19/#v40019020)

You missed the part where you are also told:

“If you want to be perfect, go and sell all your possessions and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

Kind of important part that.

Don't see many rich Republicans giving away much to the poor despite their flatulence about being good Christians.

[xmas1997]

I read the bible plenty.

Maybe you can answer this one:

There are quite a few instances where Yahweh orders the wholesale slaughter of towns.

Joshua 8:1-29
Joshua 6:20-21
Judges 20:48
Exodus 32:26-29

Etc, etc.

If you were ordered by the Lord to hack children to death, would you do it?

Remember:
You can't know God's plan, He could ask this of you tomorrow.

Tough question.
Tougher job.
If you can't know Gods plan, you still might suspect certain things.
What if these children had an in curable highly infectious disease, or crazier, were space vampires?

[spurraider21]

i'm wondering at which point of the biblical tales god took his 1,000 year nap tbh

[RandomGuy]

16 (http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/matthew/19/#v40019016) Now look! someone came up to him and said: “Teacher, what good must I do to gain everlasting life?”+ (http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/mcr/8901961/) 17 (http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/matthew/19/#v40019017) He said to him: “Why do you ask me about what is good? One there is who is good.+ (http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/mcr/8901989/) If, though, you want to enter into life, observe the commandments continually.”+ (http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/mcr/8902004/) 18 (http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/matthew/19/#v40019018) He said to him: “Which ones?” Jesus said: “You must not murder,+ (http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/mcr/8902036/) you must not commit adultery,+ (http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/mcr/8902055/) you must not steal,+ (http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/mcr/8902075/) you must not bear false witness,+ (http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/mcr/8902089/) 19 (http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/matthew/19/#v40019019) honor your father and your mother,+ (http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/mcr/8902121/) and you must love your neighbor as yourself.”+ (http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/mcr/8902141/) 20 (http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/matthew/19/#v40019020)


18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. until all is accomplished.…

Of course, those commandments are meaningless anyway.



John 14:6King James Version (KJV)

6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

The only real thing you have to do is to believe in Jesus.

Murder, rape, steal, lie, just accept Jesus and it all goes away.

Not much of a moral code, IMO.

[RD2191]

I doubt God would ask of me to murder children. And you're reading with an agenda. You aren't looking for answers. You're looking to find things that are wrong or flawed in your eyes. Those were different times and different sets of laws and different circumstances.

And for the millionth time, you speak to me as if I am the official spokesman of the Bible and then end all be all to these questions. I don't know all of the answers. Your smugness isn't helping you at all. You act is if you're winning at something just because I can't answer all of your questions. As stated before, there are plenty of people who know more about the subjects at hand. You can find them all around if you really want answers.

[RandomGuy]

Tough question.
Tougher job.
If you can't know Gods plan, you still might suspect certain things.
What if these children had an in curable highly infectious disease, or crazier, were space vampires?

They are neither.

The only thing you know is God told you to do it, he finds them and their parents wicked.

Would you do it?

I would tell God to fuck off. My moral system is far superior that of Bible God.

[RD2191]

Of course, those commandments are meaningless anyway.



The only real thing you have to do is to believe in Jesus.

Murder, rape, steal, lie, just accept Jesus and it all goes away.

Not much of a moral code, IMO.
That is simply not true, faith without works is dead. As before, you do not understand what you are reading.

[RD2191]

14 (http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/james/2/#v59002014) Of what benefit is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but he does not have works?+ (http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/mcr/8914259/) That faith cannot save him, can it?+ (http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/mcr/8914265/) 15 (http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/james/2/#v59002015) If a brother or a sister is lacking clothing* (http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/james/2/#fn8914282) and enough food for the day, 16 (http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/james/2/#v59002016) yet one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but you do not give them what they need for their body, of what benefit is it?+ (http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/mcr/8914297/) 17 (http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/james/2/#v59002017) So, too, faith by itself, without works, is dead.+ (http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/mcr/8914318/)

[RD2191]

James 2:14-17

[spurraider21]

I doubt God would ask of me to murder children. And you're reading with an agenda. You aren't looking for answers. You're looking to find things that are wrong or flawed in your eyes. Those were different times and different sets of laws and different circumstances.
tbh i was raised christian (orthodox). armenian's are very christian and very proud of it. first nation to actually adopt christianity as its national religion, etc. my grandfather was a priest. its not like i was brought up and taught to be atheist or whatnot. i grew up learning the stories of the bible and was taught them as fact. went to armenian school which had weekly religion class until the end of middle school...

its just that the more i learned about the world, about history, chemistry, biology... the less sense it made. the stories which i had held onto as fact didn't have any sound reasoning behind them, and simply weren't consistent with what is actually observed, documented, or backed up with hard evidence. for me, noah's ark was the tipping point, and i began to critically assess other fantastic stories of the bible for myself. in a family where pretty much everybody is religious its not like i was being pushed or taught to grow away from religion. it happened on its own the more i learned.

i dont want to hear about how "i'm not looking for answers, i have an agenda" because its simply not true. everything i say about the topic has a logical flow or some sound reasoning behind it.

[RD2191]

No it doesn't. The Bible does not have logical flaws. And you are not looking for answers, if you were, you would find them.

[RandomGuy]

I doubt God would ask of me to murder children. And you're reading with an agenda. You aren't looking for answers. You're looking to ind things that are wrong or flawed in your eyes. Those were different times and different sets of laws and different circumstances.

And for the millionth time, you speak to me as if I am the official spokesman of the Bible and then end all be all to these questions. I don't know all of the answers. Your smugness isn't helping you at all. You act is if you're winning at something just because I can't answer all of your questions. As stated before, there are plenty of people who know more about the subjects at hand. You can find them all around if you really want answers.


The only "agenda" I have here is the truth. The truth matters a great deal to me.

There is wisdom in the bible, just as there is wisdom in the Q'uran, and lots of other holy books. The same can be said for any good poetry.

I'm just not going to make claims about reality based on it.

Lastly:

You claim there is some missing "context" on my part.

Where is the context where bashing babies on the ground is moral?


Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children. (Isaiah 13:15-18 NLT).

Do you think God is moral for causing this?

I will say that is the action of a psychopath. If a human did that, we would try him/her for war crimes.

[RD2191]

And that's on you, I can't force you to believe. You have free will to believe whatever you want. And as I said before, science can't explain how life got here either. So its not like you have a solid basis for believing that there is no God.

[spurraider21]

No it doesn't. The Bible does not have logical flaws. And you are not looking for answers, if you were, you would find them.
the chronology is massively flawed, and some of the tales like Noah's ark are just preposterous. even the pope has acknowledged that its absurd to deny evolution.

and again, i was brought up and raised christian and was "taught" these answers. at some point through gained knowledge those answers no longer made any sort of sense

[RD2191]

The only "agenda" I have here is the truth. The truth matters a great deal to me.

There is wisdom in the bible, just as there is wisdom in the Q'uran, and lots of other holy books. The same can be said for any good poetry.

I'm just not going to make claims about reality based on it.

Lastly:

You claim there is some missing "context" on my part.

Where is the context where bashing babies on the ground is moral?



Do you think God is moral for causing this?

I will say that is the action of a psychopath. If a human did that, we would try him/her for war crimes.
Bro, do you know what Babylon is in the bible? What it represents and stands for? I'm also sure that it is speaking of prophecy.

[RandomGuy]

The Bible does not have logical flaws.






Theological doctrines:


1. God is satisfied with his works
Gen 1:31
God is dissatisfied with his works.
Gen 6:6
2. God dwells in chosen temples
2 Chron 7:12,16
God dwells not in temples
Acts 7:48
3. God dwells in light
Tim 6:16
God dwells in darkness
1 Kings 8:12/ Ps 18:11/ Ps 97:2
4. God is seen and heard
Ex 33:23/ Ex 33:11/ Gen 3:9,10/ Gen 32:30/ Is 6:1/
Ex 24:9-11
God is invisible and cannot be heard
John 1:18/ John 5:37/ Ex 33:20/ 1 Tim 6:16
5. God is tired and rests
Ex 31:17
God is never tired and never rests
Is 40:28
6. God is everywhere present, sees and knows all things
Prov 15:3/ Ps 139:7-10/ Job 34:22,21
God is not everywhere present, neither sees nor knows all
things
Gen 11:5/ Gen 18:20,21/ Gen 3:8
7. God knows the hearts of men
Acts 1:24/ Ps 139:2,3
God tries men to find out what is in their heart
Deut 13:3/ Deut 8:2/ Gen 22:12
8. God is all powerful
Jer 32:27/ Matt 19:26
God is not all powerful
Judg 1:19
9. God is unchangeable
James 1:17/ Mal 3:6/ Ezek 24:14/ Num 23:19
God is changeable
Gen 6:6/ Jonah 3:10/ 1 Sam 2:30,31/ 2 Kings 20:1,4,5,6/
Ex 33:1,3,17,14
10. God is just and impartial
Ps 92:15/ Gen 18:25/ Deut 32:4/ Rom 2:11/ Ezek 18:25
God is unjust and partial
Gen 9:25/ Ex 20:5/ Rom 9:11-13/ Matt 13:12
11. God is the author of evil
Lam 3:38/ Jer 18:11/ Is 45:7/ Amos 3:6/ Ezek 20:25
God is not the author of evil
1 Cor 14:33/ Deut 32:4/ James 1:13
12. God gives freely to those who ask
James 1:5/ Luke 11:10
God withholds his blessings and prevents men from receiving
them
John 12:40/ Josh 11:20/ Is 63:17
13. God is to be found by those who seek him
Matt 7:8/ Prov 8:17
God is not to be found by those who seek him
Prov 1:28
14. God is warlike
Ex 15:3/ Is 51:15
God is peaceful
Rom 15:33/ 1 Cor 14:33
15. God is cruel, unmerciful, destructive, and ferocious
Jer 13:14/ Deut 7:16/ 1 Sam 15:2,3/ 1 Sam 6:19
God is kind, merciful, and good
James 5:11/ Lam 3:33/ 1 Chron 16:34/ Ezek 18:32/ Ps 145:9/
1 Tim 2:4/ 1 John 4:16/ Ps 25:8
16. God's anger is fierce and endures long
Num 32:13/ Num 25:4/ Jer 17:4
God's anger is slow and endures but for a minute
Ps 103:8/ Ps 30:5
17. God commands, approves of, and delights in burnt offerings,
sacrifices ,and holy days
Ex 29:36/ Lev 23:27/ Ex 29:18/ Lev 1:9
God disapproves of and has no pleasure in burnt offerings,
sacrifices, and holy days.
Jer 7:22/ Jer 6:20/ Ps 50:13,4/ Is 1:13,11,12
18. God accepts human sacrifices
2 Sam 21:8,9,14/ Gen 22:2/ Judg 11:30-32,34,38,39
God forbids human sacrifice
Deut 12:30,31
19. God tempts men
Gen 22:1/ 2 Sam 24:1/ Jer 20:7/ Matt 6:13
God tempts no man
James 1:13
20. God cannot lie
Heb 6:18
God lies by proxy; he sends forth lying spirits t deceive
2 Thes 2:11/ 1 Kings 22:23/ Ezek 14:9
21. Because of man's wickedness God destroys him
Gen 6:5,7
Because of man's wickedness God will not destroy him
Gen 8:21
22. God's attributes are revealed in his works.
Rom 1:20
God's attributes cannot be discovered
Job 11:7/ Is 40:28
23. There is but one God
Deut 6:4
There is a plurality of gods
Gen 1:26/ Gen 3:22/ Gen 18:1-3/ 1 John 5:7

Moral Precepts

24. Robbery commanded
Ex 3:21,22/ Ex 12:35,36
Robbery forbidden
Lev 19:13/ Ex 20:15
25. Lying approved and sanctioned
Josh 2:4-6/ James 2:25/ Ex 1:18-20/ 1 Kings 22:21,22
Lying forbidden
Ex 20:16/ Prov 12:22/ Rev 21:8
26. Hatred to the Edomite sanctioned
2 Kings 14:7,3
Hatred to the Edomite forbidden
Deut 23:7
27. Killing commanded
Ex 32:27
Killing forbidden
Ex 20:13
28. The blood-shedder must die
Gen 9:5,6
The blood-shedder must not die
Gen 4:15
29. The making of images forbidden
Ex 20:4
The making of images commanded
Ex 25:18,20
30. Slavery and oppression ordained
Gen 9:25/ Lev 25:45,46/ Joel 3:8
Slavery and oppression forbidden
Is 58:6/ Ex 22:21/ Ex 21:16/ Matt 23:10
31. Improvidence enjoyed
Matt 6:28,31,34/ Luke 6:30,35/ Luke 12:3
Improvidence condemned
1 Tim 5:8/ Prov 13:22
32. Anger approved
Eph 4:26
Anger disapproved
Eccl 7:9/ Prov 22:24/ James 1:20
33. Good works to be seen of men
Matt 5:16
Good works not to be seen of men
Matt 6:1
34. Judging of others forbidden
Matt 7:1,2
Judging of others approved
1 Cor 6:2-4/ 1 Cor 5:12
35. Christ taught non-resistance
Matt 5:39/ Matt 26:52
Christ taught and practiced physical resistance
Luke 22:36/ John 2:15
36. Christ warned his followers not to fear being killed
Luke 12:4
Christ himself avoided the Jews for fear of being killed
John 7:1
37. Public prayer sanctioned
1 Kings 8:22,54, 9:3
Public prayer disapproved
Matt 6:5,6
38. Importunity in prayer commended
Luke 18:5,7
Importunity in prayer condemned
Matt 6:7,8
39. The wearing of long hair by men sanctioned
Judg 13:5/ Num 6:5
The wearing of long hair by men condemned
1 Cor 11:14
40. Circumcision instituted
Gen 17:10
Circumcision condemned
Gal 5:2
41. The Sabbath instituted
Ex 20:8
The Sabbath repudiated
Is 1:13/ Rom 14:5/ Col 2:16
42. The Sabbath instituted because God rested on the seventh day
Ex 20:11
The Sabbath instituted because God brought the Israelites
out of Egypt
Deut 5:15
43. No work to be done on the Sabbath under penalty of death
Ex 31:15/ Num 15:32,36
Jesus Christ broke the Sabbath and justified his disciples in
the same
John 5:16/ Matt 12:1-3,5
44. Baptism commanded
Matt 28:19
Baptism not commanded
1 Cor 1:17,14
45. Every kind of animal allowed for food.
Gen 9:3/ 1 Cor 10:25/ Rom 14:14
Certain kinds of animals prohibited for food.
Deut 14:7,8
46. Taking of oaths sanctioned
Num 30:2/ Gen 21:23-24,31/ Gen 31:53/ Heb 6:13
Taking of oaths forbidden
Matt 5:34
47. Marriage approved
Gen 2:18/ Gen 1:28/ Matt 19:5/ Heb 13:4
Marriage disapproved
1 Cor 7:1/ 1 Cor 7:7,8
48. Freedom of divorce permitted
Deut 24:1/ Deut 21:10,11,14
Divorce restricted
Matt 5:32
49. Adultery forbidden
Ex 20:14/ Heb 13:4
Adultery allowed
Num 31:18/ Hos 1:2; 2:1-3
50. Marriage or cohabitation with a sister denounced
Deut 27:22/ Lev 20:17
Abraham married his sister and God blessed the union
Gen 20:11,12/ Gen 17:16
51. A man may marry his brother's widow
Deut 25:5
A man may not marry his brother's widow
Lev 20:21
52. Hatred to kindred enjoined
Luke 14:26
Hatred to kindred condemned
Eph 6:2/ Eph 5:25,29
53. Intoxicating beverages recommended
Prov 31:6,7/ 1 Tim 5:23/ Ps 104:15
Intoxicating beverages discountenanced
Prov 20:1/ Prov 23:31,32
54. It is our duty to obey our rulers, who are God's ministers
and punish evil doers only
Rom 13:1-3,6
It is not our duty to obey rulers, who sometimes punish the
good and receive unto themselves damnation therefor
Ex 1:17,20/ Dan 3:16,18/ Dan 6:9,7,10/ Acts 4:26,27/
Mark 12:38,39,40/ Luke 23:11,24,33,35
55. Women's rights denied
Gen 3:16/ 1 Tim 2:12/ 1 Cor 14:34/ 1 Pet 3:6
Women's rights affirmed
Judg 4:4,14,15/ Judg 5:7/ Acts 2:18/ Acts 21:9
56. Obedience to masters enjoined
Col 3:22,23/ 1 Pet 2:18
Obedience due to God only
Matt 4:10/ 1 Cor 7:23/ Matt 23:10
57. There is an unpardonable sin
Mark 3:29
There is not unpardonable sin
Acts 13:39




I could add a few more if you like. That is in no way a complete list.

[RD2191]

the chronology is massively flawed, and some of the tales like Noah's ark are just preposterous. even the pope has acknowledged that its absurd to deny evolution.

and again, i was brought up and raised christian and was "taught" these answers. at some point through gained knowledge those answers no longer made any sort of sense
The pope is an idiot and one of the leaders of false religion and one of the reasons why Christians get a bad rep. And like I said, if that's what you believe then go you. Your thoughts and beliefs belong to you.

[RD2191]

I could add a few more if you like. That is in no way a complete list.
Yeah and I'm sure you did all of that research on your own. :lol There are no flaws in the Bible. You are simply misinformed and do not understand what you are reading.

[RandomGuy]

I doubt God would ask of me to murder children.

No one knows God's plan.

God commanded others to kill in His name.

You can't know that. Doubt all you want.

The question would remain. If God commanded you to kill children, would you?

[RandomGuy]

“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.”-Voltaire

[RD2191]

No one knows God's plan.

God commanded others to kill in His name.

You can't know that. Doubt all you want.

The question would remain. If God commanded you to kill children, would you?
He wouldn't so your question is not valid.

[RD2191]

You know nothing of the Bible, that is very clear.

[RD2191]

No one knows God's plan.

God commanded others to kill in His name.

You can't know that. Doubt all you want.

The question would remain. If God commanded you to kill children, would you?
Really? Really? LOL, and you claim to read the Bible.

[spurraider21]

The pope is an idiot and one of the leaders of false religion and one of the reasons why Christians get a bad rep. And like I said, if that's what you believe then go you. Your thoughts and beliefs belong to you.
i dont have a belief system

[RandomGuy]

Yeah and I'm sure you did all of that research on your own. :lol There are no flaws in the Bible. You are simply misinformed and do not understand what you are reading.

Hand waving will not make it go away, nor will wishing it away.

Feel free to read up:

http://www.evilbible.com/

Maybe you could also answer the question posed by this website:

http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

A lot of it is done for me. The excuses and moral tapdancing are not new.

The only real question is why you insist on believing that an immoral psychopath is worth worshipping, even if you have convinced yourself that this mythology is somehow real. That I find incomprehensible.

[RD2191]

i dont have a belief system
In your opinion, how did life get here?

[RD2191]

Hand waving will not make it go away, nor will wishing it away.

Feel free to read up:

http://www.evilbible.com/

Maybe you could also answer the question posed by this website:

http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

A lot of it is done for me. The excuses and moral tapdancing are not new.

The only real question is why you insist on believing that an immoral psychopath is worth worshipping, even if you have convinced yourself that this mythology is somehow real. That I find incomprehensible.
Yeah, because evil bible really isn't biased at all. :lmao

[RandomGuy]

The question would remain. If God commanded you to kill children, would you?


Really? Really? LOL, and you claim to read the Bible.

Not really an answer to the question.

That is the second or third time you have dodged it.

If God commanded you to kill children, would you?

You can't or won't answer it, and that should tell you something about your belief system.

It won't go away. Yes or no?

[RD2191]

Your questions are stupid and flawed. All of the answers are in the Bible.

[RD2191]

The question would remain. If God commanded you to kill children, would you?



Not really an answer to the question.

That is the second or third time you have dodged it.

If God commanded you to kill children, would you?

You can't or won't answer it, and that should tell you something about your belief system.

It won't go away. Yes or no?
Because you are stupid and clearly do not read the Bible. God's plan is very clear in the Bible.

He wouldn't ask me that. Why would I answer a question I know God wouldn't ask me.

You really are an idiot. You do realize that in most cases you referred to were instances of war in a very different time and era.

[xmas1997]

No one knows God's plan.

God commanded others to kill in His name.

You can't know that. Doubt all you want.

The question would remain. If God commanded you to kill children, would you?

No, of course not.
I seriously doubt He would ask me to.
But what if He asked you to bomb a city that was shooting missiles at you and your family and friends and neighbors.
Would you bomb that city even though there were innocent children living there?

[RD2191]

Why won't God heal amputees?:lmao What a stupid question.

[RD2191]

No, of course not.
I seriously doubt He would ask me to.
But what if He asked you to bomb a city that was shooting missiles at you and your family and friends and neighbors.
Would you bomb that city even though there were innocent children living there?

That is the exact same scenario I was about to bring up. Thanks for the help.

[xmas1997]

That is the exact same scenario I was about to bring up. Thanks for the help.

This still goes on now as we speak.
Just look at the Middle East, Ukraine.

[RD2191]

Lets murder all of the people in this city and save their children, I'm sure when they grow up they'll understand why we did it. Solid war strategy RG. (Not the point but just 1 example)

[RD2191]

This still goes on now as we speak.
Just look at the Middle East, Ukraine.
Exactly, and like I said, times and customs were different back then.

[spurraider21]

In your opinion, how did life get here?
i cant say that with any sort of certainty. it has been demonstrated that early earth conditions allowed for a spontaneous and natural assembly of amino acids and nucleic acids which are the foundations of all known life. the slightest changes in formation and arrangement can drastically alter the functions of such compounds, which includes replication. any sort of protein structure that had a replicating function would be the kickstart of terrestrial life.

its also entirely plausible that life was "delivered" via meteorite, but we would ultimately have the question of how, where, and when THAT life originated.

i think the fact that a spontaneous assembly of amino acid/nucleic acid/protein structure has been demonstrated is pretty telling

[RD2191]

i cant say that with any sort of certainty. it has been demonstrated that early earth conditions allowed for a spontaneous and natural assembly of amino acids and nucleic acids which are the foundations of all known life. the slightest changes in formation and arrangement can drastically alter the functions of such compounds, which includes replication. any sort of protein structure that had a replicating function would be the kickstart of terrestrial life.

its also entirely plausible that life was "delivered" via meteorite, but we would ultimately have the question of how, where, and when THAT life originated.

i think the fact that a spontaneous assembly of amino acid/nucleic acid/protein structure has been demonstrated is pretty telling
So then how can you rule out God? Or are you just unsure of the Bible based God?

Telling of what? In your honest opinion, you believe that something as complex as DNA randomly happened?

[spurraider21]

So then how can you rule out God? Or are you just unsure of the Bible based God?
as i've said on numerous occasions, there is a difference between not believing in god and claiming for fact that god doesn't exist. as of now, i dont see evidence that would lead me to the conclusion that god exists, and even less evidence for the judeo-christian god. the only "evidence" i see that would point to god at this point is a god of the gaps fallacy... such as "we dont know for certain where life comes from, so lets believe in god because it would answer that question."

Telling of what? In your honest opinion, you believe that something as complex as DNA randomly happened?
we have seen early-earth conditions emulated in laboratories that within a relatively short period of time gave rise to basic proteins. extrapolate that data to 100 years. then 1000. then 10,000... and keep going. its very difficult for us to actually fathom just how long 100,000 years is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._coli_long-term_evolution_experiment

in a 26 year span, there were about 60,000 generations of E. Coli, for instance. now of course we arent starting from E Coli, but we are starting from basic proteins. but also rather than 26 years, we are talking not 1,000's, not 100,000's, and not even millions of years, but potentially in the billions. that is a ridiculously long period of time. i mean ridiculous.

also, consider the sheer number of planets that exist... in the milky way galaxy alone, there are "as many stars as there are grains of sand on a beach." and the number of galaxies in the universe are estimated to be in the hundreds of billions... these are insane numbers when you put them all together.

i don't think something as complex as replicating DNA is something that is very probable to spontaneously occurring. maybe 1 in 100 billion, or even less. but when you also consider the sheer number of "attempts" (if you count each planet as an "attempt") its probable that there are more than one planet that has its own spontaneous life

[RD2191]

Food for thought, will consider.

[spurraider21]

take a jar of marbles that is perfectly organized. all yellow marbles on the top layer. all blue in the 2nd. all green in the 3rd, etc.

now i tell you to shake that jar for 10 seconds. what happens? they all become mixed up, no orgnanization, all chaos. now what if i told you to keep randomly shaking the jar in 10 second intervals until the jar is perfectly ordered again. you do this 1, 2, 3 times. you do it 100 times, and u say "its impossible." which it seemingly is. the odds are microscopic that they would randomly end up ordered again. but what if i had a machine that kept doing it for years. you dont think that maybe, 150 years of constant 10 second shuffles or so would eventually get lucky?

an event with a small probability can still occur if there are enough attempts. i dont think you understand just how long billions of years are, or just how many planets/stars there are

[RD2191]

But in the case of that study, its life creating more life, isn't it? I wanna know if scientist know how life originated in the first place. Also, where it came from.

[RD2191]

I understand, I don't understand how scientists believe life got here.

[spurraider21]

But in the case of that study, its life creating more life, isn't it? I wanna know if scientist know how life originated in the first place. Also, where it came from.
as i said, that case study IS starting with E Coli, and we are starting with basic proteins. but im also explaining that we aren't limiting ourselves to 26 years, but rather 100's of millions, and even billions of years. the point is just to show how many changes occur in relatively simple single celled organisms in such a short period of time

[spurraider21]

I understand, I don't understand how scientists believe life got here.
i dont think you'll meet many scientists who will ever tell you "i know exactly how life got here."

however, i've met many creationists that tell me they know exactly how life got here. therein lies the difference, friend

[RD2191]

i dont think you'll meet many scientists who will ever tell you "i know exactly how life got here."

however, i've met many creationists that tell me they know exactly how life got here. therein lies the difference, friend
I doubt that's the case. How many scientists deny the existence of God or a Creator? How can they be so sure when they don't know how life began or got to Earth.

[xmas1997]

16 (http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/matthew/19/#v40019016) Now look! someone came up to him and said: “Teacher, what good must I do to gain everlasting life?”+ (http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/mcr/8901961/) 17 (http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/matthew/19/#v40019017) He said to him: “Why do you ask me about what is good? One there is who is good.+ (http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/mcr/8901989/) If, though, you want to enter into life, observe the commandments continually.”+ (http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/mcr/8902004/) 18 (http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/matthew/19/#v40019018) He said to him: “Which ones?” Jesus said: “You must not murder,+ (http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/mcr/8902036/) you must not commit adultery,+ (http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/mcr/8902055/) you must not steal,+ (http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/mcr/8902075/) you must not bear false witness,+ (http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/mcr/8902089/) 19 (http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/matthew/19/#v40019019) honor your father and your mother,+ (http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/mcr/8902121/) and you must love your neighbor as yourself.”+ (http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/mcr/8902141/) 20 (http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/matthew/19/#v40019020)

This is interesting now that you quoted this especially the part about "If, though, you want to enter into life.....".
Some translations have used "eternal life" instead of just "life".

This is what Random was saying about the original languages, and is a very good point to consider.
This is why I contend that you absolutely cannot take the bible, or other religious book, literally.
Surely, if the bible were the "infallible" Word of God, then surely God would have made sure there would be no errors, inconsistencies, or discrepancies regardless of language, but there are, and many.
That brings up the question as to Who said it was infallible in the first place?
Man did.
Why?
To discourage questioning the religious authorities, and to control the people.

Back to Life i.e. Eternal life, everlasting life, etc., I believe eludes to the fact that our spirit, the entity within our body that animates it, thinks, etc., is eternal although our bodies return to dust, dust being another form of energy.
Our spirit however returns to and merges with God according to some, if you have led a good life in the material realm.
The odd part of this is that Jesus calls this "life" rather than death, which makes me feel even more confident that science is on the right track and that this world we presently live and breathe in, is just an illusion, made up of total energy and all connected to each other on a subatomic plain.

[spurraider21]

I doubt that's the case. How many scientists deny the existence of God or a Creator?
i cant speak for "all scientists" but i dont think most will outright say "god doesn't exist." in general, its a scientific fallacy to try to claim a negative. rather than saying "i can guarantee that the flying spaghetti monster doesn't exist" a scientist would say "there is no reason for anybody to believe in the existence of a flying spaghetti monster." i've made this point more than once in this thread, and i sincerely hope you are able to understand the difference.


How can they be so sure when they don't know how life began or got to Earth.
they're just not giving into the god of the gaps...

[spurraider21]

btw off topic, but i'm wondering if i'm allowed to call myself a scientist if I have a BS in Biochemistry even though i'm enrolled in law school :lol

[RD2191]

You either believe in the big bang or that the earth has always been here. If you believe in the big bang, how can something come from nothing? How is that logical? If you believe the Earth has never had a beginning then why is it impossible for God to always have existed?

[RD2191]

btw off topic, but i'm wondering if i'm allowed to call myself a scientist if I have a BS in Biochemistry even though i'm enrolled in law school :lol
Good enough for me, imo.

[spurraider21]

You either believe in the big bang or that the earth has always been here. If you believe in the big bang, how can something come from nothing? How is that logical? If you believe the Earth has never had a beginning then why is it impossible for God to always have existed?
nobody said it is impossible for god to always have existed, but the main reasoning for the belief in that is once again a god of the gaps. i've been using that phrase a lot, but you've been presenting it as one of your main forms of argument.

fyi... God of the gaps is a type of theological (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theology) perspective in which gaps in scientific (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science) knowledge are taken to be evidence or proof of God's existence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Existence_of_God).

[silverblk mystix]

This is interesting now that you quoted this especially the part about "If, though, you want to enter into life.....".
Some translations have used "eternal life" instead of just "life".

This is what Random was saying about the original languages, and is a very good point to consider.
This is why I contend that you absolutely cannot take the bible, or other religious book, literally.
Surely, if the bible were the "infallible" Word of God, then surely God would have made sure there would be no errors, inconsistencies, or discrepancies regardless of language, but there are, and many.
That brings up the question as to Who said it was infallible in the first place?
Man did.
Why?
To discourage questioning the religious authorities, and to control the people.

Back to Life i.e. Eternal life, everlasting life, etc., I believe eludes to the fact that our spirit, the entity within our body that animates it, thinks, etc., is eternal although our bodies return to dust, dust being another form of energy.
Our spirit however returns to and merges with God according to some, if you have led a good life in the material realm.
The odd part of this is that Jesus calls this "life" rather than death, which makes me feel even more confident that science is on the right track and that this world we presently live and breathe in, is just an illusion, made up of total energy and all connected to each other on a subatomic plain.


Everlasting. This just means - time perduring forever - everlasting is still - "within time"

this is not the same as eternal -

Eternal means - timeless - "no time"

The human mind "scientists included"

cannot understand that - it is beyond comprehension.

The human mind can understand "time" and can "deny time" - but what is "timeless" is beyond our comprehension -

this is why you won't find me arguing this point with "sleeping scientists" because they haven't even woken up yet - and they are trying to argue "evidence" and "logical fallacies" and other scientific terms - but this has nothing to do with "god" with "eternal" with "timeless" - these are things that cannot be "measured"

It cannot be comprehended by the human mind. Period.

[RD2191]

Well spurraider, I don't agree with all of your points but good well thought and respectable answers.

[RD2191]

http://healthyceleb.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/rosie_jones_sexy.jpg

[RD2191]

No God? Your move spurraider. :wakeup

[RD2191]

:lolJK

[xmas1997]

Everlasting. This just means - time perduring forever - everlasting is still - "within time"

this is not the same as eternal -

Eternal means - timeless - "no time"

The human mind "scientists included"

cannot understand that - it is beyond comprehension.

The human mind can understand "time" and can "deny time" - but what is "timeless" is beyond our comprehension -

this is why you won't find me arguing this point with "sleeping scientists" because they haven't even woken up yet - and they are trying to argue "evidence" and "logical fallacies" and other scientific terms - but this has nothing to do with "god" with "eternal" with "timeless" - these are things that cannot be "measured"

It cannot be comprehended by the human mind. Period.


And that to me is God, Who always was, always is, and always will be, the Eternal Essence.
God cannot be measured.
God encompasses everything there is, and everything there isn't.
God is eternal.
Thus Jesus was saying we would return to "life" i.e. God.

And because as you say it cannot be comprehended by the human brain, then it is inherently pointless to debate God. Discuss? Yes. Debate? No.

[silverblk mystix]

No God? Your move spurraider. :wakeup


Hey Rob, do you think Blake calls his own kid a jeebotard?


:lmao:lmao:lmao


Other kids will, I am sure!

[RD2191]

Hey Rob, do you think Blake calls his own kid a jeebotard?


:lmao:lmao:lmao


Other kids will, I am sure!
:lmao:lmao:lmaoI almost feel bad for the guy. Never seen someone so confused in my life.

[silverblk mystix]

:lmao:lmao:lmaoI almost feel bad for the guy. Never seen someone so confused in my life.



:lmao:lmao texas tech rump raiders!

[RD2191]

What irks me though, is you say there is no reason to believe in God, how so? We don't know how life got here. We also don't know how the universe began. So then why discard the possibility of God? How many scientists are even looking for the possibility of a creator? The universe is massive with infinite amounts of knowledge. What if one day, somewhere out there, someone finds God or more evidence of God? Of course, we haven't found life on any other planet or even signs of it so it's entirely possible that God created humans only on Earth.

[RD2191]

:lmao:lmao texas tech rump raiders!
I know people that can't even construct a proper sentence and got accepted to Tech. Yet he acts as if it's something special. Probably some grammatical errors in my sentence but oh well. At least I'll never be as dumb as Blake. :lmao

If I hate guns should I send my child to various NRA events? Just a question.

[spurraider21]

Well spurraider, I don't agree with all of your points but good well thought and respectable answers.


http://healthyceleb.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/rosie_jones_sexy.jpg


No God? Your move spurraider. :wakeup


:lolJK
:lmao tbh

[spurraider21]

What irks me though, is you say there is no reason to believe in God, how so? We don't know how life got here. We also don't know how the universe began. So then why discard the possibility of God? How many scientists are even looking for the possibility of a creator? The universe is massive with infinite amounts of knowledge. What if one day, somewhere out there, someone finds God or more evidence of God? Of course, we haven't found life on any other planet or even signs of it so it's entirely possible that God created humans only on Earth.
dno if this was directed towards me or not

the day we have actual evidence of the existence of a god (judeo-christian or otherwise) is the day i'll hop on the god bandwagon tbh. but i dont consider our lack of understanding, or "gaps" as such evidence. for instance, "we dont know definitely exactly how life on earth originated, therefore god is the answer." imo that is a dangerous method of thinking that led to no real scientific advancement for 1,000 years. instead we need to continue to study what we can, make new discoveries that DO answer those questions. maybe one day, one of those discoveries will be a direct piece of evidence to the existence of a deity.... but until then, there is no actual evidence for god, only gaps in knowledge, which btw we continue to slowly fill

[xmas1997]

dno if this was directed towards me or not

the day we have actual evidence of the existence of a god (judeo-christian or otherwise) is the day i'll hop on the god bandwagon tbh. but i dont consider our lack of understanding, or "gaps" as such evidence. for instance, "we dont know definitely exactly how life on earth originated, therefore god is the answer." imo that is a dangerous method of thinking that led to no real scientific advancement for 1,000 years. instead we need to continue to study what we can, make new discoveries that DO answer those questions. maybe one day, one of those discoveries will be a direct piece of evidence to the existence of a deity.... but until then, there is no actual evidence for god, only gaps in knowledge, which btw we continue to slowly fill

I enjoyed your points too.

If the day ever comes that we find irrefutable proof of God, it will be solely because He wants us to.
Why He wants us to accept Him solely due to our faith in Him, escapes me.
That has nothing to do with free will IMHO.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

:tu

Good stuff. I am a part time researcher myself. I don't understand the ridicule between both sides. It is what it is and for people to spend a considerable amount of their day arguing against what somebody believes in is hilarious if you actually think about it. For all this time when society became more secular there have been atheists being born just to toy with somebody else's beliefs. It's pretty intolerant if you ask me.

I can only speak for myself but the way that I see itp religions in general and Christianity in particular proselytize and politicize their beliefs.

Ministry is a central tenant to the Christians as Jesus talked about it consistently throughout the gospels. The church has a longstanding tradition from Constantine on down in influencing policy. Christianity at least through saul gave credence to the notion of separation of church and state even if most American christians have no idea what I am talking about. Others such as Islam are political through doctrine.

Social control can be used for good or ill certainly but when it is used for ill, it is important in my view to point out that the basis of the stupid decisions being made have no truth.

If people want to give alms or attribute magic sky man when they get a raise at work then great. OTOH, when they use it to curtail human rights, stifle verifiable truth, or to induce people into cruel and malicious acts then not so great.

[xmas1997]

I can only speak for myself but the way that I see itp religions in general and Christianity in particular proselytize and politicize their beliefs.

Ministry is a central tenant to the Christians as Jesus talked about it consistently throughout the gospels. The church has a longstanding tradition from Constantine on down in influencing policy. Christianity at least through saul gave credence to the notion of separation of church and state even if most American christians have no idea what I am talking about. Others such as Islam are political through doctrine.

Social control can be used for good or ill certainly but when it is used for ill, it is important in my view to point out that the basis of the stupid decisions being made have no truth.

If people want to give alms or attribute magic sky man when they get a raise at work then great. OTOH, when they use it to curtail human rights, stifle verifiable truth, or to induce people into cruel and malicious acts then not so great.

Excellent points, but I feel you are "generalizing" quite a bit, especially when you consider the time spans involved in comparing theistic (Judaism, Christianity, Islamism, etc. for example) views to atheistic views.

It is fine for you to focus in on those particular religions, yet you neglect to mention the "fanatics" among them with their fanatical agendas of persuading, evangelizing, and proselytizing.
It is important for you and others to realize that you are "generalizing", lumping the vast majority of the believers together, with the few fanatics and their pursuit of the agendas which you claim, and that is clearly a false generalization.

You need to differentiate between the vast majority of believers, and the minority few fanatics among them in order to be accurate in your assertion and description, because there are fanatics in every walk of life, theists do not have a monopoly on fanaticism, be it religious, political, or otherwise.

Saul (Paul) was teaching those WITHIN his faith, he was not out and about evangelizing, thus it's true, "ministry" is a central mechanism used in his teaching, but NOT for those "outside" the faith.
Those that were NOT part of his faith, who came into contact with, and happened to hear him as he taught those who were, were under no compulsion at all to become involved, or join his faith.

Islamism is another story and IMHO much more radical and politically motivated, so you may have a case there.

[leemajors]

Excellent points, but I feel you are "generalizing" quite a bit, especially when you consider the time spans involved in comparing theistic (Judaism, Christianity, Islamism, etc. for example) views to atheistic views.

It is fine for you to focus in on those particular religions, yet you neglect to mention the "fanatics" among them with their fanatical agendas of persuading, evangelizing, and proselytizing.
It is important for you and others to realize that you are "generalizing", lumping the vast majority of the believers together, with the few fanatics and their pursuit of the agendas which you claim, and that is clearly a false generalization.

You need to differentiate between the vast majority of believers, and the minority few fanatics among them in order to be accurate in your assertion and description, because there are fanatics in every walk of life, theists do not have a monopoly on fanaticism, be it religious, political, or otherwise.

Saul (Paul) was teaching those WITHIN his faith, he was not out and about evangelizing, thus it's true, "ministry" is a central mechanism used in his teaching, but NOT for those "outside" the faith.
Those that were NOT part of his faith, who came into contact with, and happened to hear him as he taught those who were, were under no compulsion at all to become involved, or join his faith.

Islamism is another story and IMHO much more radical and politically motivated, so you may have a case there.

Are you glossing over the ~1300 year stranglehold of social control Christianity had on Western Europe, full of oppression, including but not limited to the Inquisition, the Crusades, actively keeping people mired in the Dark ages, and all those other minor events?

[xmas1997]

Are you glossing over the ~1300 year stranglehold of social control Christianity had on Western Europe, full of oppression, including but not limited to the Inquisition, the Crusades, actively keeping people mired in the Dark ages, and all those other minor events?

No, I am not glossing over it.
I am acknowledging it, but I am also putting it in proper perspective, the Inquisition, and the Crusades, were for the most part theist against theist and controlled by a select few fanatics.
Plus considering the overall age of civilization, it was a tiny fragment of humanity.
And you forget that within that period of time, the embryonic era of the Christian church, the Christians themselves were persecuted for their beliefs.

[johnsmith]

I actually am a Catholic (not a very good one) and believe in God but reluctantly...I generally stay out of these conversations because I feel like I have very little to offer on the subject and frankly I think it's a pointless discussion and debate. Having said that, since I've been posting on this forum, this subject has been brought up hundreds of times and it goes the same way every single time so I'm not sure why it's discussed so much. Furthermore, if I were someone on the fence about religion and I looked here for something to sway me one way or another, I'd just log off and never return again because neither side makes very compelling arguments.

[johnsmith]

but I am also putting it in proper perspective, the Inquisition, and the Crusades, were for the most part theist against theist and controlled by a select few fanatics.
.

Who were they and what made them fanatics?

[101A]

I have always said on this site that I am a Christian and more specifically a Catholic, but I have no insecurities in that regard that compels me to defend my faith from the more fanatical atheists on here or the fanatical theists on here.
I was once atheistic or agnostic myself too so I understand where they are coming from.
But all along I was seeking the truth, and I feel I am one of the fortunate ones to have found it.
It didn't come to me in the usual methods as in books or preachers or religious people, rather it came from deep within myself.

You mention that you know plenty of good people who happen to be atheists. So do I. And I know plenty of very bad people who are Christians.
The good Christians I know vary in their beliefs but almost none of them would ever say that an atheist is for sure going to Hell. Even Pope Francis says an atheist can go to Heaven because we are all judged by our ACTS. In other words, anyone can get there depending on how we live our lives and doing the WORK of God even though we do not believe in Him.
Of course, an atheist also does not believe in Heaven and Hell so to them it is not an issue as long as they lead a good, productive, and giving life.
As I said before, when you get down to the basics, it isn't necessarily what you believe or Who you believe in, it is rather HOW you live your life.
Most of the atheists and theists I know have no problems with each other, they are secure within themselves and get along with each other famously, and would never ridicule the other for their individual beliefs or disbeliefs.
Those who do this, like on here, are as far from being God like and human as you can get.
And I dare say they are probably very unhappy and goalless in their real lives as they portray themselves to be in this forum.
But it is their own fault and no others.
Because they are free to be whatever they wish, they control their own destinies.

I was raised Catholic, I understand why you would assume all Christians believe we are judged by our acts. The vast majority of protestants, however, do NOT believe that AT ALL. We are saved by Grace, not by acts; we are sinful creatures, and cannot possibly live good enough lives to "earn" heaven, therefore Jesus sacrifice is the ultimate gift. HE died for OUR sins.

John 3:16 is the verse that that particular hat is hung, and Martin Luther specifically broke with the Catholic church over this disagreement.

It is preached in MANY protestant churches that the worst person who "Accepts Jesus as their Lord and Savior" goes to Heaven, and the best person who does not, goes to Hell.

Go to any evangelical church next Sunday (Baptist, Church of Christ, Assembly of God, or monst non-denominationals), and I am reasonably confident you will hear that message.

BTW: Many think Catholics are more of a cult than a religion, and the Pope is probably going to Hell.

I hope I have made it clear that these are not MY beliefs; but they are prevalent among Christians in this country; and they are based on their reading of the Bible.

[Blake]

I actually am a Catholic (not a very good one) and believe in God but reluctantly...I generally stay out of these conversations because I feel like I have very little to offer on the subject and frankly I think it's a pointless discussion and debate. Having said that, since I've been posting on this forum, this subject has been brought up hundreds of times and it goes the same way every single time so I'm not sure why it's discussed so much. Furthermore, if I were someone on the fence about religion and I looked here for something to sway me one way or another, I'd just log off and never return again because neither side makes very compelling arguments.

I'd rather waste time here pointing out the ridiculousness of believing in the Bible than waste time and money sitting in a catholic pew on Sunday morning.

[xmas1997]

I was raised Catholic, I understand why you would assume all Christians believe we are judged by our acts. The vast majority of protestants, however, do NOT believe that AT ALL. We are saved by Grace, not by acts; we are sinful creatures, and cannot possibly live good enough lives to "earn" heaven, therefore Jesus sacrifice is the ultimate gift. HE died for OUR sins.

John 3:16 is the verse that that particular hat is hung, and Martin Luther specifically broke with the Catholic church over this disagreement.

It is preached in MANY protestant churches that the worst person who "Accepts Jesus as their Lord and Savior" goes to Heaven, and the best person who does not, goes to Hell.

Go to any evangelical church next Sunday (Baptist, Church of Christ, Assembly of God, or monst non-denominationals), and I am reasonably confident you will hear that message.

BTW: Many think Catholics are more of a cult than a religion, and the Pope is probably going to Hell.

I hope I have made it clear that these are not MY beliefs; but they are prevalent among Christians in this country; and they are based on their reading of the Bible.

I see and understand what you are saying, and was not aware of the Protestant viewpoint of Catholicism as being that radical.
But I think it is besides the point.
Many Protestants are more guilty of translating the bible literally than Catholics do IMHO.
As long as they keep it to themselves and do not PUSH that agenda down our throats, then I am fine with it.
Most of my friends are Protestant, and they never do or profess the things you are accusing them of, we all get along just fine.
And for the most part Protestants differ from Catholics on minor theological issues like the Virgin Mary, and the Pope being the titular head of all Christian religions.

[leemajors]

No, I am not glossing over it.
I am acknowledging it, but I am also putting it in proper perspective, the Inquisition, and the Crusades, were for the most part theist against theist and controlled by a select few fanatics.
Plus considering the overall age of civilization, it was a tiny fragment of humanity.
And you forget that within that period of time, the embryonic era of the Christian church, the Christians themselves were persecuted for their beliefs.

Then they promptly turned around and put those people to the screws as soon as they were able. The "select few fanatics" excuse doesn't hold water when everyone else blindly follows them.

[xmas1997]

I fully understand how johnsmith feels about it. But to come here to this forum and think you might get even a glimmer of insight one way or the other is the epitome of folly IMHO, because the discussion or debates are for the most part dominated by trolls like blake who has no earthly idea of what is being said, or the other trolls who just want to ridicule no matter who says what.
They have no real and valid opinions, on anything whatsoever.
But even said, it is not totally out of the realm of possibility that a sliver of truth and insight might be gleaned from here, because I have experienced both on here when I least expected to, and from those I least expected it from.

[xmas1997]

Then they promptly turned around and put those people to the screws as soon as they were able. The "select few fanatics" excuse doesn't hold water when everyone else blindly follows them.

Again, I think that is a very short sighted view of the situation when you consider WHO (how many) held the power, and the level of power held, during those tiny time spans when it was abused.

[Blake]

Many Protestants are more guilty of translating the bible literally than Catholics do IMHO.


Hey genius, if you believe in Jesus, you're "guilty" of taking the Bible as literally true.

[xmas1997]

Hey genius, if you believe in Jesus, you're "guilty" of taking the Bible as literally true.

^ I rest my case concerning blake and his LACK of knowledge on religious matters in general.! ^

:lmao

[leemajors]

Again, I think that is a very short sighted view of the situation when you consider WHO (how many) held the power, and the level of power held, during those tiny time spans when it was abused.

nah, it's just what people tend to do. follow.

[Blake]

^ I rest my case concerning blake and his LACK of knowledge on religious matters in general.! ^

:lmao

that doesn't make any sense per par etc

[Aztecfan03]

at some point you will realize that there is no logical course that points to the judeo-christian God without their being all sorts of inconsistencies and fallacies when you start asking the difficult questions.

did God actually make the earth in 7 earth days? or did he actually rest for 1,000 years? its gotta be one of those two

The Hebrew word 'Yom' is used for a lot of different things in the Bible. And this likely wasn't an important detail.

[xmas1997]

that doesn't make any sense per par etc

No surprises there.
You NEVER understand anything no matter much sense it makes to everyone else.
:lmao

[mouse]

The Hebrew word 'Yom' is used for a lot of different things in the Bible. And this likely wasn't an important detail.

Tell that to the Mexicans,

http://blogs.ocweekly.com/stickaforkinit/yomyom1.jpg

[leemajors]

No surprises there.
You NEVER understand anything no matter much sense it makes to everyone else.
:lmao

Your "everyone else" is ~5 people on this board.

[xmas1997]

Your "everyone else" is ~5 people on this board.

It is "everyone", except for the trolls, kind of like you.
Get it right, even though it must be a struggle for you.
:lmao

[leemajors]

It is "everyone", except for the trolls, kind of like you.
Get it right, even though it must be a struggle for you.
:lmao

Still stuck on the rubber/glue phase, awesome

[Blake]

Still stuck on the rubber/glue phase, awesome

I know you are but what am I tactic

[xmas1997]

I know you are but what am I tactic

Uh huh, still nothing of consequence or relevance to ADD to the discussion I see.
It just confirms you know exactly NOTHING about the subject matter!
So how old are you really, 13, 14, 15?
:lol

[silverblk mystix]

I'd rather waste time here pointing out the ridiculousness of believing in the Bible than waste time and money sitting in a catholic pew on Sunday morning.


Is your kid ridiculous and retarded because you enrolled her in a place that will ram the bible down her throat?


Hope you are consistent and share your true condescending feelings with her.


:lmao:lmao:lmao

[xmas1997]

I know you are but what am I tactic

You must be a terrible father, if you really are old enough to have a child, which I really doubt, when you say all the shit you do in this forum.

[Blake]

You must be a terrible father, if you really are old enough to have a child, which I really doubt, when you say all the shit you do in this forum.

all the shit talking I've done, I've done to adults, not kids.

Unless you're saying you're a kid.

But I'm inclined to believe you're just an old thin skinned idiot.

[Blake]

Is your kid ridiculous and retarded because you enrolled her in a place that will ram the bible down her throat?


Hope you are consistent and share your true condescending feelings with her.


:lmao:lmao:lmao

What a stupid post.

I'm glad she'll get to study the Bible to see what a crock of shit it is.

And have the opportunity to be in a nice, clean private school environment.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Excellent points, but I feel you are "generalizing" quite a bit, especially when you consider the time spans involved in comparing theistic (Judaism, Christianity, Islamism, etc. for example) views to atheistic views.

It is fine for you to focus in on those particular religions, yet you neglect to mention the "fanatics" among them with their fanatical agendas of persuading, evangelizing, and proselytizing.
It is important for you and others to realize that you are "generalizing", lumping the vast majority of the believers together, with the few fanatics and their pursuit of the agendas which you claim, and that is clearly a false generalization.

You need to differentiate between the vast majority of believers, and the minority few fanatics among them in order to be accurate in your assertion and description, because there are fanatics in every walk of life, theists do not have a monopoly on fanaticism, be it religious, political, or otherwise.

Saul (Paul) was teaching those WITHIN his faith, he was not out and about evangelizing, thus it's true, "ministry" is a central mechanism used in his teaching, but NOT for those "outside" the faith.
Those that were NOT part of his faith, who came into contact with, and happened to hear him as he taught those who were, were under no compulsion at all to become involved, or join his faith.

Islamism is another story and IMHO much more radical and politically motivated, so you may have a case there.

Nice strawman.

You Saul commentary is completely besides the point I was making. To your point though, Saul basically said that you were going to hell if you didn't follow his lead. its a central theme in your faith.

Stating that Jesus used ministry as a tenant of his doctrine is not a generalization. You can look it up in the gospels. Further me stating that when people use religion to do bad things is a problem does not generalize to me saying that all religious people do bad things. You suck at logic.

Its a central tenant of your faith that all people do bad things thus all people need Jesus or they suffer for eternity.

[xmas1997]

all the shit talking I've done, I've done to adults, not kids.

Unless you're saying you're a kid.

But I'm inclined to believe you're just an old thin skinned idiot.

Oh, I see, that makes it okay then in your mind, you can the shit to adults , but draw the line with kids?
How old did you say you were, 13, 14, 15?

[silverblk mystix]

What a stupid post.

I'm glad she'll get to study the Bible to see what a crock of shit it is.

And have the opportunity to be in a nice, clean private school environment.


So you set her up to fail, basically?


:rollin:rollin


I am glad I didn't have a shitty dad.


"Son, I want to enroll you in something I think is for retards, dipshits, idiots & morons - because - well - I am a shitty dad!"

[Blake]

Oh, I see, that makes it okay then in your mind, you can the shit to adults , but draw the line with kids?
How old did you say you were, 13, 14, 15?

of course I draw the shit talking line with kids and keep it directed at adults.

Damn I hope you don't have kids for their sake.

What the fuck is wrong with you.

[Blake]

So you set her up to fail, basically?


:rollin:rollin


I am glad I didn't have a shitty dad.


"Son, I want to enroll you in something I think is for retards, dipshits, idiots & morons - because - well - I am a shitty dad!"

I put her in a school where a large percentage of the graduates received an academic college scholarship of some sort last year.

But keep showing off your public school education, prison guard.

[silverblk mystix]

I put her in a school where 90% of the graduates received an academic scholarship of some sort.

But keep showing off your public school education, prison guard.


Yes, - if she excels - she will be a bible thumper jeebotard - (in your eyes - anyway)

If she fails - and renounces the bible and then develops a condescending shitty attitude and a repugnant outlook on life - she will be a great kid - (in your eyes)



Sounds like you really thought this out!

:rollin:rollin:rollin

[xmas1997]

Nice strawman.

You Saul commentary is completely besides the point I was making. To your point though, Saul basically said that you were going to hell if you didn't follow his lead. its a central theme in your faith.

Stating that Jesus used ministry as a tenant of his doctrine is not a generalization. You can look it up in the gospels. Further me stating that when people use religion to do bad things is a problem does not generalize to me saying that all religious people do bad things. You suck at logic.

Its a central tenant of your faith that all people do bad things thus all people need Jesus or they suffer for eternity.

I had a feeling what I said to you would go way over your head, and lo and behold, it did, just as it always does every time I discuss something with you, or try to.
First, you get all defensive about it because apparently you misunderstand it and mistake it for some sort of fictitious attack on your character.
And second, you misconstrue all logic involved because it does not fit or support your contention.
This is what I mean by your "pseudo intellectualism", you might try having this thing they call "an open mind" sometime, it would behoove you to, and you might just learn something beneficial.
So never mind, you wouldn't understand anyway.
But you are welcome to over generalize, misconstrue, and make all the outlandish false accusations you desire.
:lol

[FuzzyLumpkins]

As for this notion that ministry was only internal, it displays a marked ignorance as to the schism between Peter and Saul. it's obvious who won out as the gentiles were proselytized.

[Blake]

Yes, - if she excels - she will be a bible thumper jeebotard - (in your eyes - anyway)

If she fails - and renounces the bible and then develops a condescending shitty attitude and a repugnant outlook on life - she will be a great kid - (in your eyes)



Sounds like you really thought this out!

:rollin:rollin:rollin

You haven't thought anything out, but yes, I have.

smh public school prison guard.

[silverblk mystix]

I haven't thought anything out - and the truth is I hate the brat because her mom cucked me!






:lmao:lmao:lmao


Well you finally manned up and just admitted it!

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I had a feeling what I said to you would go way over your head, and lo and behold, it did, just as it always does every time I discuss something with you, or try to.
First, you get all defensive about it because apparently you misunderstand it and mistake it for some sort of fictitious attack on your character.
And second, you misconstrue all logic involved because it does not fit or support your contention.
This is what I mean by your "pseudo intellectualism", you might try having this thing they call "an open mind" sometime, it would behoove you to, and you might just learn something beneficial.
So never mind, you wouldn't understand anyway.
But you are welcome to over generalize, misconstrue, and make all the outlandish false accusations you desire.
:lol

You wrote all of that out and fail to address anything I actually say.

If one does not accept Jesus as their savior and has sinned then what happens to them when they die according to your faith? What does your dogma say on the matter? You are afraid to address this head on. it is telling.

Jesus and his apostles still demanded proselytization.

And me making comments on the actions of some Christians still does not generalize to all of them. If you refuse to be painted with that brush then fine but that still does not mitigate how there are Christians and Christian groups that try and effect policy. They try to rewrite history and doctor text books. They stifle research that they do not understand or that they feel contradicts their faith. It is what it is.

[xmas1997]

You wrote all of that out and fail to address anything I actually say.

If one does not accept Jesus as their savior and has sinned then what happens to them when they die according to your faith? What does your dogma say on the matter? You are afraid to address this head on. it is telling.

Jesus and his apostles still demanded proselytization.

And me making comments on the actions of some Christians still does not generalize to all of them. If you refuse to be painted with that brush then fine but that still does not mitigate how there are Christians and Christian groups that try and effect policy. They try to rewrite history and doctor text books. They stifle research that they do not understand or that they feel contradicts their faith. It is what it is.

Way too many questions to address especially if you are not willing to discuss it, but rather only want to see a very narrow view of things.
Yes, your view of Christianity is extremely limited and narrow minded, because Christianity encompasses quite a large number of faiths and few of them agree on much except that Jesus Christ was the Son of God.
The rest is open to each sects interpretation, but you focus entirely on just one interpretation.
That, my friend, is a limited narrow minded viewpoint.
Do you understand this?
Plus you make open ended statements that you apparently contend are true for all, when in fact it is NOT shared by ALL elements of Christianity.
This is why it is practically impossible to have a discussion with you on this topic.
Maybe my criticism of you being a pseudo intellectual is harsh, but this is exactly what one of those does.

[spurraider21]

all trolling aside i see where Blake is coming from... when I have kids I would probably want to send them to the same private school i attended, despite regular religion classes. was a good environment

[xmas1997]

all trolling aside i see where Blake is coming from... when I have kids I would probably want to send them to the same private school i attended, despite regular religion classes. was a good environment

Best educations in the US IMHO. I attended them all my life and was never sorry I did.

[spurraider21]

Best educations in the US IMHO. I attended them all my life and was never sorry I did.
i dont necessarily think the teachers were that great, and its not like it was a drug free campus by any stretch, but i dig the tight-knit environment and the smaller classroom sizes

[Blake]

Best educations in the US IMHO. I attended them all my life and was never sorry I did.

then how did you become so stupid

[Blake]

i dont necessarily think the teachers were that great, and its not like it was a drug free campus by any stretch, but i dig the tight-knit environment and the smaller classroom sizes

discipline is also a non-issue and since the classes are so small, she's automatically on the volleyball and basketball teams