EU Britian stay

[FuzzyLumpkins]

It seems like a fair analogy to me, except it misses the parts where the overall benefit of infrastructure, and trade with other states offsets the cost.

Failure to fully consider all evidence, costs, and benefits is a very common failing in the way many people view governments.

An analogy is saying something is similar to something else. What he gave was a hypothetical given the principal actors and a lot of wishful thinking as you've noted.

[CosmicCowboy]

It seems like a fair analogy to me, except it misses the parts where the overall benefit of infrastructure, and trade with other states offsets the cost.

Failure to fully consider all evidence, costs, and benefits is a very common failing in the way many people view governments.




An analogy is saying something is similar to something else. What he gave was a hypothetical given the principal actors and a lot of wishful thinking as you've noted.

:lmao

like the EU is really going to quit trading with the UK....:lol

Why don't we wait and see just how much "damage" there is to UK trade?

Apparently the smart money is deciding it's not as bad as the chicken littles say...UK stock market is way back up today.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

:lmao

like the EU is really going to quit trading with the UK....:lol

Why don't we wait and see just how much "damage" there is to UK trade?

Apparently the smart money is deciding it's not as bad as the chicken littles say...UK stock market is way back up today.

Stock market stopped being a popular economic indicator when I was about 12 personally. I was taught in secondary school that the economic impacts of government policies take months at the very least. That's why they evaluate quarterly.

[boutons_deux]

UK won't leave.

Cameron, staying in office for 4 or 5 more months, says won't invoke Article 50, dumping Article 50 on the next PM (maybe UK's Trash, also with the dyed hair) who probably won't, either.

2/3 of Parliament don't want to leave, and they elect the next PM.

It's all racist, xenophobic, bigoted B U L L S H I T by suckered old people.

[CosmicCowboy]

UK won't leave.

Cameron, staying in office for 4 or 5 more months, says won't invoke Article 50, dumping Article 50 on the next PM (maybe UK's Trash, also with the dyed hair) who probably won't, either.

2/3 of Parliament don't want to leave, and they elect the next PM.

It's all racist, xenophobic, bigoted B U L L S H I T by suckered old people.

The vote was by the same margin Obama beat Romney. It wasn't even close. They are going to have a hard time ignoring the will of the people.

[Clipper Nation]

Leftists, 2000: :cry "This is America, count every vote!" :cry

Leftists, 2016: :cry "Who cares if the British people overwhelmingly voted to leave the EU? We'll just ignore their votes! Democracy is stupid when it doesn't go our way, anyway!" :cry

[DMC]

The vote was by the same margin Obama beat Romney. It wasn't even close. They are going to have a hard time ignoring the will of the people.
They've ignored it for centuries.

[boutons_deux]

The vote was by the same margin Obama beat Romney. It wasn't even close. They are going to have a hard time ignoring the will of the people.

The UK will do not leave.

There is already huge division, and ignorance about Leaving and what the fuck EU actually is and means, among the Leavers.

Leavers are older, white, white nationalist, racist, bigoted, xenophobic, just like you Repug base assholes.

The referendum was advisory, not mandatory.

BigFinance (London) will have the final say, as it does everywhere.

Politicians ignore voters' preferences all the time, esp in USA.

2/3 of Parliament are against Leaving. Parliament makes the laws, not voters.

[pgardn]

They've ignored it for centuries.

Most empires tend to do that.

Their current parlimentaty system might be more cognizant of popular whims than our two party system.

I think the writers of our constitution understood you do not immediately write a referendum the second after events stir the populous into a fervor (GB did not do this, but they gambled) This seems to escape some posters on this board. Donald needs to learn to sit on his statements for about a week before vomitting out nonsense as an example of a popular impulsive LEADER of the free world.

[RandomGuy]

siding with Wall Street, the Establishment, the elites, the media, all the stars like JK Rowling - all out of touch with the common man.

JK Rowling was a waitress a few years ago.


Born in Yate, Gloucestershire, England, Rowling was working as a researcher and bilingual secretary for Amnesty International when she conceived the idea for the Harry Potter series while on a delayed train from Manchester to London in 1990.[6] The seven-year period that followed saw the death of her mother, birth of her first child, divorce from her first husband and relative poverty until she finished the first novel in the series, Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone, in 1997.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._K._Rowling

How exactly is she "out of touch"?

What is "the establishment"?

Who are the elites?

Why are they bad?

So much sentiment that needs some scrutiny, so little time. You seem to be one of the more intelligent, reasonable people that posts here, so I find it a bit fascinating that you seem to hold the kinds of beliefs that, to me, just don't seem to hold up to any kind of critical evaluation.

[boutons_deux]

rmt "more intelligent, reasonable people"

:lol rmt is wrong on everything, and gives money to Trash.

[rmt]

JK Rowling was a waitress a few years ago.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._K._Rowling

How exactly is she "out of touch"?

What is "the establishment"?

Who are the elites?

Why are they bad?

So much sentiment that needs some scrutiny, so little time. You seem to be one of the more intelligent, reasonable people that posts here, so I find it a bit fascinating that you seem to hold the kinds of beliefs that, to me, just don't seem to hold up to any kind of critical evaluation.

1997 is hardly a few years ago - hard to believe it's so long but that's almost 20 years ago. I know her history - she did a very inspirational commencement speech at Harvard a couple years? back and we are huge fans of her books, but 20 years is a long time. And I wonder whether her opinion would be the same today if she were still a penniless secretary with nothing to her name. Most of the "London" types - media, politicians, financiers, etc got the mood of the country very wrong. I didn't say they were "bad" - just that they were out of touch. Everyone else followed suit - there was a run up on stocks before in anticipation of Remain. I remember the exact moment when they realized that it was gonna be Leave - the price of gold shot up - stunning reversal.

Anyway, I thank you for the compliment - I believe it's the first here. No, there was also a very kind person who pointed me in the right direction when I got too caught up. Usually I get pounded un-mercilessly with nasty names for holding opinions contrary to most here.

[pgardn]

The UK will do not leave.

There is already huge division, and ignorance about Leaving and what the fuck EU actually is and means, among the Leavers.

Leavers are older, white, white nationalist, racist, bigoted, xenophobic, just like you Repug base assholes.

The referendum was advisory, not mandatory.

BigFinance (London) will have the final say, as it does everywhere.

Politicians ignore voters' preferences all the time, esp in USA.

2/3 of Parliament are against Leaving. Parliament makes the laws, not voters.

Boots, things are already rolling. It's done. GB will hurt for a unspecified time period starting 2 days ago.

As as I see it, GB has already been very unhappy with some trading aspects of the EU and some decentralization of their justice system ( other aspects also) There is not a country in the EU that is happy about every aspect of the organization. But the other EU remain because they understand the ramifications of leaving or getting booted out. Some countries (Norway) choose to operate outside the EU fully realizing they lose some economic advantages. ( I would love to see some of the people in my age group with unsatisfactory job situations go to Norway and see how the older generation is sucking the younger harder workers dry. Perish the thought of thinking the US is screwing the young, it's all relative)

Current events involving mass migration away from wars ignited an already volatile foreign worker/immigration problem. This added to dissatisfaction that was already present. David Cameron saw the popular dissatisfaction coming to a head as a chance to extract a more favorable deal from the EU in the name of GB. And he got concessions from the EU that other members did not have the standing to possibly ask for. Further, Cameron used the threat of a referendum he never wanted passed as leverage to gain concessions. So now he has succeeded except...

Well the popular fervor boosted by economic situation of older folks, and "wary of immigrant" younger working class people, voted to LEAVE in large numbers. Now the game is supposed to continue and the newly found power of the popular vote headed by a Trump like Boris Johnson have not a clue what to do. They have not a Fckn clue how their entire country functions. But the will of the people won. So now they go slinking back to those with the know how to plead for help.

Those with the know how had really never expected to have to solve a LEAVE problem and did not take appropriate measures. And THE PEOPLE, the 52% and their leaders, don't have a Fkn clue that the ramifications of their vote went beyond their individual, highly specific reasons for voting to leave.

Again, the good of the whole vs. the will of the individual plays out in an extraordinary way. Selfish behavior when living with close ties to other individuals can be a bitch.

This is a very interesting new experiment playing on a very old theme. IMO of course.

[rmt]

rmt "more intelligent, reasonable people"

:lol rmt is wrong on everything, and gives money to Trash.






$25 is lower than the Bernie average. Anyways, I'll give something much more valuable - my time. I've never been involved in a political campaign before so I look forward to it.

[pgardn]

1997 is hardly a few years ago - hard to believe it's so long but that's almost 20 years ago. I know her history - she did a very inspirational commencement speech at Harvard a couple years? back and we are huge fans of her books, but 20 years is a long time. And I wonder whether her opinion would be the same today if she were still a penniless secretary with nothing to her name. Most of the "London" types - media, politicians, financiers, etc got the mood of the country very wrong. I didn't say they were "bad" - just that they were out of touch. Everyone else followed suit - there was a run up on stocks before in anticipation of Remain. I remember the exact moment when they realized that it was gonna be Leave - the price of gold shot up - stunning reversal.

Anyway, I thank you for the compliment - I believe it's the first here. No, there was also a very kind person who pointed me in the right direction when I got too caught up. Usually I get pounded un-mercilessly with nasty names for holding opinions contrary to most here.

Read my post above about the dangers of "moods" and the will of the individual. See above. IMHO...

[CosmicCowboy]

UK will be fine. There will be some short term dislocation but the economic devastation hysteria is way overblown.

[pgardn]

UK will be fine. There will be some short term dislocation but the economic devastation hysteria is way overblown.

Easy for you to say living here.

It is a totally unnecessary mess. And of course they will be fine in a relative way. You would be fine in a relative way if your taxes increased by 20%, so would I. But do you want that to happen?

[CosmicCowboy]

Easy for you to say living here.

It is a totally unnecessary mess. And of course they will be fine in a relative way. You would be fine in a relative way if your taxes increased by 20%, so would I. But do you want that to happen?

:lmao talk about hysteria.

The EU needs trade with UK as much as the UK needs trade with them.

They will work something out.

[boutons_deux]

:lmao talk about hysteria.

The EU needs trade with UK as much as the UK needs trade with them.

They will work something out.

yep, like not implementing Article 50 at all.

[pgardn]

:lmao talk about hysteria.

The EU needs trade with UK as much as the UK needs trade with them.

They will work something out.

You are a business man and don't get it.
Ok.
Anecdotal example of a PH.D. in Austin and his group working here at UT in Austin. They get funds from GB and the US and big oil for some incredible research in reading and mapping possible oil geological features. This whole group is on hold because as of right now their FUTURE funding from GB is unknown. (Yes, this has even seeped into science and this affects all sorts of other aspects such as oil research and economies)

What they are now NOT doing and will not be doing for the foreseeable future| Buying cars. Buying homes. In the US. Which they HAD planned on doing. Now take this example and extrapolate. Hysteria...? Caution and the unknown with projects going forward brings a machine to a halt. And this is going to be delayed even further it now appears with GB saying they will take their time.

Understandable? This is not good now and there are no promises how DELAYS in the flow of money and brains affect the future.

So maybe you got another laugh emoji for him and the group he works with. I'm OK, you're Ok...got it.

[CosmicCowboy]

Of course there is temporary uncertainty and there will be some temporary financial dislocation as things get worked out. I'm saying it's not Armageddon.

[rmt]

Read my post above about the dangers of "moods" and the will of the individual. See above. IMHO...

Is that any different from those who vote for someone because he's black or because she's a woman? Most voters are not knowledgeable on the issues - I'm as guilty as most - this is the first election cycle that I've paid any notice to - was just too busy raising kids and living life - I must say politics is fascinating (and so dirty). But in the end, even with much more knowledge, I'm still going to vote the same way. People are always going to vote their self-interest.

No one knows what will happen - it's early days yet - it might turn out to be better in the long run. But I totally understand the feeling the common Brit has of taking back their country and identity. I've visited Europe twice - before kids - and I doubt that the Europe that I saw and has been for so long is what it is today in just a couple decades.

[boutons_deux]

One of the huge issues is ending the free movement of people between EU countries.

100Ks of EU people live in UK, and same with UK people living in EU countries. None of these Ms of ex-patriots have needed visas, now what?

And all y'all's fellow bigots, racists, xenophobes in UK aren't gonna get rid of the Ms of Indians, Pakistanis, Greeks, Poles, French, etc in UK any more than you bigots, racists, xenophobes can get rid of Hispanics and knitters in the US.

[pgardn]

Of course there is temporary uncertainty and there will be some temporary financial dislocation as things get worked out. I'm saying it's not Armageddon.

Where did I say it's Armageddon?

Its was totally unnecessary. Uncertainty can lead to Unknown outcomes based purely on erratic random behavior. (Somewhat like my posting)
Dont you think the people of Britain who voted stay might be a bit frustrated?
Now, practically everyone admits it is a mess.

[pgardn]

Is that any different from those who vote for someone because he's black or because she's a woman? Most voters are not knowledgeable on the issues - I'm as guilty as most - this is the first election cycle that I've paid any notice to - was just too busy raising kids and living life - I must say politics is fascinating (and so dirty). But in the end, even with much more knowledge, I'm still going to vote the same way. People are always going to vote their self-interest.

No one knows what will happen - it's early days yet - it might turn out to be better in the long run. But I totally understand the feeling the common Brit has of taking back their country and identity. I've visited Europe twice - before kids - and I doubt that the Europe that I saw and has been for so long is what it is today in just a couple decades.

If the bolded is true, and you put "only" in that sentence, we are screwed IMO.

I would gladly pay more in taxes for public education if I thought it would really help our country's young people identify impulsive, narcissistic, fear-mongering, xenophobic, hateful, selfish, tunneled vision leaders and citizens.

Taking back the country... They now have less control over their destiny. No doubt in my mind. They just cut out their bargaining power. But they can keep their country whiter and poorer. There are many poor white Eastern European countries that admire them. Good show!

[RandomGuy]

Looks like the London market has come roaring back.

Mostly expected (to me at least). Real damage to Britain, if any, will be long-term and take a while to play out. Short-term indicators like stocks will take a while to fully digest that.

[RandomGuy]

Is that any different from those who vote for someone because he's black or because she's a woman? Most voters are not knowledgeable on the issues - I'm as guilty as most - this is the first election cycle that I've paid any notice to - was just too busy raising kids and living life - I must say politics is fascinating (and so dirty). But in the end, even with much more knowledge, I'm still going to vote the same way. People are always going to vote their self-interest.

No one knows what will happen - it's early days yet - it might turn out to be better in the long run. But I totally understand the feeling the common Brit has of taking back their country and identity. I've visited Europe twice - before kids - and I doubt that the Europe that I saw and has been for so long is what it is today in just a couple decades.

People will vote for what they *think* is their self-interest.

Human decision making is flawed, and prone to irrational conclusions all the time.
http://freakonomics.com/


What if someone has been habitually lied to about what is actually in their self-interest and believes that lie to be true?

The conservatives in the Leave movement lied through their teeth. The conservatives in Kansas have lied through their teeth about the efficacy of supply-side economics, to cover their own asses, when that policy failure blows up their faces.

The problem with making decisions, is that there is a very concerted propaganda machine, fueled in no small part by self-styled conservatives such as Rupert Murdoch, who not only have an active motive to lie, they have a profit motive to make those lies as sensational as possible for money.

[RandomGuy]

http://freakonomics.com/podcast/113127/
Why do we read the news.

[rmt]

If the bolded is true, and you put "only" in that sentence, we are screwed IMO.

I would gladly pay more in taxes for public education if I thought it would really help our country's young people identify impulsive, narcissistic, fear-mongering, xenophobic, hateful, selfish, tunneled vision leaders and citizens.

Taking back the country... They now have less control over their destiny. No doubt in my mind. They just cut out their bargaining power. But they can keep their country whiter and poorer. There are many poor white Eastern European countries that admire them. Good show!

And what should these young people do about other impulsive, narcissistic, fear-mongering, xenophobic, hateful, selfish, tunneled vision CITIZENS? Identify/single them out? Target them? Change their minds? How? Who determines what is impulsive, selfish, hateful, tunnel vision thought? They have as much right to be the way they are as anyone else as long as they aren't breaking the law. If you're going to judge on thoughts/feelings without actions, we would all be in jail. I'll remind you that a lot of tunnel vision people (e.g. Asperger's people) have made great advances for the good of this world partly BECAUSE they are tunnel visioned. Just because you think that tunnel vision is bad does not necessarily make it so.

I don't agree with paying more taxes for public education - they already spend more per student than just about any other country with worse results and what for - to pay teachers' and administrators' sky rocketing healthcare costs and pensions. Part of why I homeschooled my children is because I don't want the public schools indoctrinating them in what they think is x, x, x, x thought/behavior. Teachers/administrators might think that liberal/progressive thought is just fine and dandy, but I don't.

As far as the UK is concerned, no one knows how it will work out. But if I'm a betting person, I'd put my money on Switzerland, Norway and the UK instead of Germany and France carrying the weight for the rest of Europe. Whatever happens, they have a right to decide their direction and they'll live with the consequences. I think, in the end, they'll be better for it.

[rmt]

People will vote for what they *think* is their self-interest.

Human decision making is flawed, and prone to irrational conclusions all the time.
http://freakonomics.com/


What if someone has been habitually lied to about what is actually in their self-interest and believes that lie to be true?

The conservatives in the Leave movement lied through their teeth. The conservatives in Kansas have lied through their teeth about the efficacy of supply-side economics, to cover their own asses, when that policy failure blows up their faces.

The problem with making decisions, is that there is a very concerted propaganda machine, fueled in no small part by self-styled conservatives such as Rupert Murdoch, who not only have an active motive to lie, they have a profit motive to make those lies as sensational as possible for money.

I could turn the same argument around where Obamacare is concerned. Obama lied about it - keep your plan/doctor, $2500, etc. Unless one is getting a subsidy, this law sucks - higher premiums, higher deductibles, higher copays, smaller networks, inability to just buy only what YOU want or need (not what you govt says you need).

So where does that leave us when both sides lie? I guess you just listen to both sides and make up your own mind.

[pgardn]

And what should these young people do about other impulsive, narcissistic, fear-mongering, xenophobic, hateful, selfish, tunneled vision CITIZENS? Identify/single them out? Target them? Change their minds? How? Who determines what is impulsive, selfish, hateful, tunnel vision thought? They have as much right to be the way they are as anyone else as long as they aren't breaking the law. If you're going to judge on thoughts/feelings without actions, we would all be in jail. I'll remind you that a lot of tunnel vision people (e.g. Asperger's people) have made great advances for the good of this world partly BECAUSE they are tunnel visioned. Just because you think that tunnel vision is bad does not necessarily make it so.

I don't agree with paying more taxes for public education - they already spend more per student than just about any other country with worse results and what for - to pay teachers' and administrators' sky rocketing healthcare costs and pensions. Part of why I homeschooled my children is because I don't want the public schools indoctrinating them in what they think is x, x, x, x thought/behavior. Teachers/administrators might think that liberal/progressive thought is just fine and dandy, but I don't.

As far as the UK is concerned, no one knows how it will work out. But if I'm a betting person, I'd put my money on Switzerland, Norway and the UK instead of Germany and France carrying the weight for the rest of Europe. Whatever happens, they have a right to decide their direction and they'll live with the consequences. I think, in the end, they'll be better for it.



Nope it's up to them what to do.

Just know what they are. If you don't know what the words mean then try the word liar for something more simplistic I guess.

Do you think it is important to be able to recognize people who are habitual liars? I think it is. What you do or how you interact with the habitual liar is up to you. In court it's probably going to be different than in a bar.

Norway and the Swiss have terribly small economies compared to France and Germany. It's much easier to control smaller less diverse economies.

If you think your children are prone to indoctrination then definitely pick a private school that teaches the views that indoctrinate them into what is taught at your home. Binary questions with binary answers are the way to go I am guessing. I think you said they were gifted. That's too bad. They probably are going to get bored. And don't dare let them take AP History in high school, you might expose them to information and ways of thinking you will regret. AP Government as well.

Jeez.... Possibly no AP Biology or Physics. Chemistry is probably less of a threat for their indoctrination.


Late edit:

Sorry Randomfella, I just noticed you used liar as an example. Totally did not read it just thought that lying v. Telling the truth would be easier.

You actually used it in a much more complicated interesting example. And yep I read that book.

[pgardn]

If the UK voted again right now STAY would win. Im almost sure of it.

Just heard an interview with a LEAVE MP in the UK with an Indian last name and he said immigration was a big issue. He explained that it is much harder for nonEU individuals to enter the UK and this was not fair. The shocked interviewer said she thought most of the LEAVE voters wanted LESS immigration. He said no, they just wanted it fair so that anyone, regardless of their EU status, would be free to enter and leave the country for work.

Holy shit...

Then asked why the LEAVE leaders did not have a plan he explained that neither did the STAY leaders. The shocked interviewer said the STAY leaders did have a plan based on, now get this STAYING. He then stated they should have had a plan for LEAVE. She then asked was it not clear the LEAVE Leaders should have a LEAVE plan.

I kid you not. This is so damn sad its funny.

"Ok son, take the wheel."
"What's a wheel daddy?"
Bang...

[rmt]

Nope it's up to them what to do.

Just know what they are. If you don't know what the words mean then try the word liar for something more simplistic I guess.

Do you think it is important to be able to recognize people who are habitual liars? I think it is. What you do or how you interact with the habitual liar is up to you. In court it's probably going to be different than in a bar.

Norway and the Swiss have terribly small economies compared to France and Germany. It's much easier to control smaller less diverse economies.

If you think your children are prone to indoctrination then definitely pick a private school that teaches the views that indoctrinate them into what is taught at your home. Binary questions with binary answers are the way to go I am guessing. I think you said they were gifted. That's too bad. They probably are going to get bored. And don't dare let them take AP History in high school, you might expose them to information and ways of thinking you will regret. AP Government as well.

Habitual liars - you mean like Hillary (emails) and Obama (Obamacare, immigration)?

Haha - too late - 2 of them have already taken AP US History and one AP Govt. No worries for me regarding exposing them to information and different ways of thinking - my kids are well grounded in our faith and beliefs. What disturbs me is that because of the society we live in they hide what it is they believe. For instance, my son's AP US History teacher (who is a conservative) asked him who he's gonna vote for Cruz or Trump and my son answered, "Why not Hillary or Bernie?" and the teacher said, "Because you're conservative." My son's answer was whoever wins the Republican nomination. Now, this to me is a slippery slope - that he is afraid/reluctant/whatever to declare his beliefs because he is among mostly Democrat-leaning kids. But, I admit that I, too, am falling prey to this "silent censorship". I am obviously a Trump supporter and plan to campaign for him, but will I put a Trump 2016 sign in my front yard or on my car? Do I want to run the risk of my house/car being vandalized? Regardless of which side you're on, we live in America and we should not have to be worried about which political party we belong to.

[pgardn]

Habitual liars - you mean like Hillary (emails) and Obama (Obamacare, immigration)?

Haha - too late - 2 of them have already taken AP US History and one AP Govt. No worries for me regarding exposing them to information and different ways of thinking - my kids are well grounded in our faith and beliefs. What disturbs me is that because of the society we live in they hide what it is they believe. For instance, my son's AP US History teacher (who is a conservative) asked him who he's gonna vote for Cruz or Trump and my son answered, "Why not Hillary or Bernie?" and the teacher said, "Because you're conservative." My son's answer was whoever wins the Republican nomination. Now, this to me is a slippery slope - that he is afraid/reluctant/whatever to declare his beliefs because he is among mostly Democrat-leaning kids. But, I admit that I, too, am falling prey to this "silent censorship". I am obviously a Trump supporter and plan to campaign for him, but will I put a Trump 2016 sign in my front yard or on my car? Do I want to run the risk of my house/car being vandalized? Regardless of which side you're on, we live in America and we should not have to be worried about which political party we belong to.

Oh absolutely yes. I would put Hillary ahead of Obama.

So your decision is to vote for Trump. As he would be less likely to lie. Yikes.

So private schools can't totally protect your kids either, but they are prepared. I know of a private school in San Antonio where your son would be in the vast majority. Damn.

So no Biology, no fear they might get a whiff of evolution?

I am not a party guy.

Personally I find it absolutely disgusting people would act violently towards a person or property because of a candidate. I will say I did find it amusing that my neighbor with the one Trump sign took it down after Trumps railing on the judge in Indiana. The neighbor is Hispanic. He did leave his Hillary to jail sign up though. The only other sign up in my thriving neighborhood now is one old Bernie sign. Last election it was full of Romney and Obama signs. It's absolutely amazing how awful people here appear to feel about either choice.

I would be very careful if I were you about helping Trump by going door to door. I would not do that. Hillary either. People are angry and just weird.

[Spurminator]

But, I admit that I, too, am falling prey to this "silent censorship". I am obviously a Trump supporter and plan to campaign for him, but will I put a Trump 2016 sign in my front yard or on my car? Do I want to run the risk of my house/car being vandalized? Regardless of which side you're on, we live in America and we should not have to be worried about which political party we belong to.

Maybe if the Republican's Party's current face wasn't symbolic of the absolute lowest common denominator when it comes to politics, I'd agree that people shouldn't judge you for your beliefs.

It's one thing to vote Republican because you're a Republican, or even because you want to keep Hillary out, but to be enthusiastically behind Donald Trump and really feel that he embodies President of the United States? Probably best to keep that to yourself.

[rmt]

Oh absolutely yes. I would put Hillary ahead of Obama.

So your decision is to vote for Trump. As he would be less likely to lie. Yikes.

So private schools can't totally protect your kids either, but they are prepared. I know of a private school in San Antonio where your son would be in the vast majority. Damn.

So no Biology, no fear they might get a whiff of evolution?

I am not a party guy.

Personally I find it absolutely disgusting people would act violently towards a person or property because of a candidate. I will say I did find it amusing that my neighbor with the one Trump sign took it down after Trumps railing on the judge in Indiana. The neighbor is Hispanic. He did leave his Hillary to jail sign up though. The only other sign up in my thriving neighborhood now is one old Bernie sign. Last election it was full of Romney and Obama signs. It's absolutely amazing how awful people here appear to feel about either choice.

I would be very careful if I were you about helping Trump by going door to door. I would not do that. Hillary either. People are angry and just weird.

I'm not voting for Trump because he's less likely than Hillary to lie. I'm voting for him because he is more likely to shake up our corrupt government and is (well, up until now) self-funded and not controlled by any donor, Wall Street, etc. You can see it in that he is having trouble getting donors and why should they give him money when his intention is to go to Washington and upset their gravy train? Some of them are defecting and running to Hillary because she will continue the same corruption, status quo that they have going on there. He doesn't have to do this - he could retire and play golf - he's not concerned about any political future or money (he's taking a big hit funding his campaign). He's a businessman and I think more capable than an attorney to bring back the jobs and economy - which to me are the most important issues. You can see it in, for instance, the transgender issue - his first stance (thinking of the cost) was use whatever bathroom you want but don't force businesses to have to make new ones - that would be incredibly expensive. Hillary will also continue Obamacare which I hate.

Nope, both took AP Biology - no problem. I don't need to protect them because their foundation is strong. Sorry about the tunnel vision thing - I'm a bit sensitive as my son has mild Asperger's - frustrating at times but what is seen as negative is sometimes positive - super-focused, passionate and obsessive about his interests, single-minded, etc.

Won't be going door to door - probably manning phones or paper/office work.

[rmt]

Jeez.... Possibly no AP Biology or Physics. Chemistry is probably less of a threat for their indoctrination.


Nope, took all of them - nothing wrong with my kids' science education - one's at Google interning and the other heading toward engineering. You see my home as indoctrination while I see it as freedom to read widely and discuss openly. Funny how I see public school as lacking in those areas with its political correctness and have you seen the PC books on reading lists these days - whatever happened to Mark Twain and Shakespeare - maybe too much racism and white privilege.

[RandomGuy]

Of course there is temporary uncertainty and there will be some temporary financial dislocation as things get worked out. I'm saying it's not Armageddon.

No. Most likely outcome is a recession, probably somewhat prolonged.

Self-inflicted damage.

Part and parcel of a factor similar to what I think is happening in the US, the uncertainty effect. I think the stupidity of Congress is causing a lot of businesses to simply not invest.

The quibble then becomes, who is responsible for that?

[RandomGuy]

I'm not voting for Trump because he's less likely than Hillary to lie. I'm voting for him because he is more likely to shake up our corrupt government and is (well, up until now) self-funded and not controlled by any donor, Wall Street, etc. You can see it in that he is having trouble getting donors and why should they give him money when his intention is to go to Washington and upset their gravy train? Some of them are defecting and running to Hillary because she will continue the same corruption, status quo that they have going on there. He doesn't have to do this - he could retire and play golf - he's not concerned about any political future or money (he's taking a big hit funding his campaign). He's a businessman and I think more capable than an attorney to bring back the jobs and economy - which to me are the most important issues. You can see it in, for instance, the transgender issue - his first stance (thinking of the cost) was use whatever bathroom you want but don't force businesses to have to make new ones - that would be incredibly expensive. Hillary will also continue Obamacare which I hate.

Nope, both took AP Biology - no problem. I don't need to protect them because their foundation is strong. Sorry about the tunnel vision thing - I'm a bit sensitive as my son has mild Asperger's - frustrating at times but what is seen as negative is sometimes positive - super-focused, passionate and obsessive about his interests, single-minded, etc.

Won't be going door to door - probably manning phones or paper/office work.

People are defecting from him, because he is an unstable racist with incoherent, arguably dangerously incoherent policies.

His campaign is a shambles, and if you think Mr. Deal maker is going to live up to his promises, once those moneyed interests turn their attention to him, you are being dangerously naive, no offense. Clinton isn't that much better in that regard, but she has both experience and temperament that unstable Donald will never have.

[RandomGuy]

Habitual liars - you mean like Hillary (emails) and Obama (Obamacare, immigration)?



How do you weigh that against the strong-arm unethical stuff that goes into Trump's real estate projects? His defrauding of his "university" students? His bankruptcies that forced his losses on the little guys that were the subcontractors for his casinos?

[pgardn]

Nope, took all of them - nothing wrong with my kids' science education - one's at Google interning and the other heading toward engineering. You see my home as indoctrination while I see it as freedom to read widely and discuss openly. Funny how I see public school as lacking in those areas with its political correctness and have you seen the PC books on reading lists these days - whatever happened to Mark Twain and Shakespeare - maybe too much racism and white privilege.

Public schools being larger have a vast array of beliefs and cultures. Sports like football sometimes bring students from very different backgrounds towards common goals. Bands, cheer squads, etc take kids who are not so interested in school and at least expose them to education. Not all kids have parents like you. Your children will be living and working with kids from public schools. You, in your old age, will be relying on kids from public schools. I believe public schools are an absolutely sacred thing in this country. Private schools are necessary but cannot possibly fill the unity need like a well run public school. Problem is there are areas with public schools mirrororing the neighborhood. Drugs and poverty. But I damn sure don't want to turn Texas into what I have seen in New Orleans. Public schools that are absolute trash, and private schools that maintain discipline without teaching a damn thing.

I personally look at the whole ball of wax. It helps me personally if public schools are good, especially in science. So even though I am young, I have flexible working hours and was lucky to end up in a critical need area that pays. Therefore I give back to the public community that helped produce me. The science community that too often has to look outside of our own borders to find competent people.

You can thank conservatives for ruining the reading lists in the State of Texas. This is plain and simple. You can also thank conservatives for trying to leave out some of the greatest, most profound ideas in science. Yes CONSERVATIVES.

Who ruined the textbooks in Florida?

[pgardn]

How do you weigh that against the strong-arm unethical stuff that goes into Trump's real estate projects? His defrauding of his "university" students? His bankruptcies that forced his losses on the little guys that were the subcontractors for his casinos?

Trump is a habitual liar. Plain and simple. And he is a snake oil salesman. There are so many examples of him outright lying it's absolutely mind-boggling.

"David Duke, I never met the guy. I know nothing about him. Why should I criticize him."

Uhhhh, perhaps because you wrote an article in a magazine about him Mr. Trump. Yes, you were critical.
I gotta cuss now... Fckn amazing. He pulls this shit all the time. He wrote a book on how to take advantage of people so he can deal with China, he knows China. Jesus... What a fck up. Stay in your own world of gold and marble.

[Clipper Nation]

Maybe if the Republican's Party's current face wasn't symbolic of the absolute lowest common denominator when it comes to politics, I'd agree that people shouldn't judge you for your beliefs.

It's one thing to vote Republican because you're a Republican, or even because you want to keep Hillary out, but to be enthusiastically behind Donald Trump and really feel that he embodies President of the United States? Probably best to keep that to yourself.
This is America, not a third-world shithole. Faggots like you who support voter intimidation against any candidate that hurts your fee-fees seem to have forgotten that.

[boutons_deux]

Having Won, Boris Johnson and ‘Brexit’ Leaders Fumble

former London mayor Boris Johnson (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/j/boris_johnson/index.html?inline=nyt-per) and other leaders of the successful campaign to vote Britain (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/international/countriesandterritories/unitedkingdom/index.html?inline=nyt-geo) out of the European Union (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/e/european_union/index.html?inline=nyt-org): They had no plan for what comes next.

the movement’s leaders have often appeared as if they had not expected to win and were not prepared to cope with the consequences. Faced with the scope of the decision, they have been busy walking back promises (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/27/world/europe/having-won-some-brexit-campaigners-begin-backpedaling.html) they made during the campaign and scaling back expectations. They have failed to show a united front or to answer basic questions.

it has undercut their credibility and authority as Mr. Johnson prepares his bid to become prime minister and lead Britain into a new relationship with the Continent.

On issues from immigration (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/27/world/europe/brexit-economy-immigration-britain-european-union-democracy.html) to spending on the National Health Service, the “Leave” coalition has retreated (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/28/world/europe/what-leaders-said-before-brexit-and-what-they-say-now.html) from its more populist and apparently exaggerated claims.

In changing their tune, the leaders of the anti-European Union campaign risk undermining whatever trust they had earned from the millions who voted to leave the bloc in the expectation that immigration would be cut sharply and that money now going to the European Union — which the Leave campaign said was 350 million pounds, or $465 million, a week — would be available to help finance the National Health Service.

On immigration, too, there was immediate backtracking (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/27/world/europe/having-won-some-brexit-campaigners-begin-backpedaling.html) from Mr. Johnson and Daniel Hannan, a member of the European Parliament from the Conservative Party, who told the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36641390), “Frankly, if people watching think that they have voted and there is now going to be zero immigration from the E.U., they are going to be disappointed.”

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/06/29/world/europe/boris-johnson-brexit-leaders-eu.html

:lol Rightwingnuts in UK con, sucker, lie as much as US rightwingnuts. :lol

[pgardn]

If the UK voted again right now STAY would win. Im almost sure of it.

Just heard an interview with a LEAVE MP in the UK with an Indian last name and he said immigration was a big issue. He explained that it is much harder for nonEU individuals to enter the UK and this was not fair. The shocked interviewer said she thought most of the LEAVE voters wanted LESS immigration. He said no, they just wanted it fair so that anyone, regardless of their EU status, would be free to enter and leave the country for work. !!!!!

Holy shit... !!!!!

Then asked why the LEAVE leaders did not have a plan he explained that neither did the STAY leaders. The shocked interviewer said the STAY leaders did indeed have a plan based on, now get this, STAYING. The LEAVE MP then stated the STAY Leaders should have had a plan for LEAVE. She then asked was it not clear the LEAVE Leaders should have a LEAVE plan?

I kid you not. This is so damn sad its funny.

"Ok son, take the wheel."
"What's a wheel daddy?"
Bang...

Repost.
For those of you who know anything about this.
This is totally freaking amazing.

[Spurminator]

This is America, not a third-world shithole. Faggots like you who support voter intimidation against any candidate that hurts your fee-fees seem to have forgotten that.

Voter intimidation? I'm just saying you're a dumbass if you think Trump would make a worthy President. Sorry if that hurts your wittle feewings. :cry :cry :cry

[Spurminator]

This is America, not a third-world shithole. Faggots like you who support voter intimidation against any candidate that hurts your fee-fees seem to have forgotten that.

:cry Don't oppress me by questioning my intelligence! :cry
:cry Victimhood mentality :cry
:cry Triggered! :cry

[rmt]

Public schools being larger have a vast array of beliefs and cultures. Sports like football sometimes bring students from very different backgrounds towards common goals. Bands, cheer squads, etc take kids who are not so interested in school and at least expose them to education. Not all kids have parents like you. Your children will be living and working with kids from public schools. You, in your old age, will be relying on kids from public schools. I believe public schools are an absolutely sacred thing in this country. Private schools are necessary but cannot possibly fill the unity need like a well run public school. Problem is there are areas with public schools mirrororing the neighborhood. Drugs and poverty. But I damn sure don't want to turn Texas into what I have seen in New Orleans. Public schools that are absolute trash, and private schools that maintain discipline without teaching a damn thing.

I personally look at the whole ball of wax. It helps me personally if public schools are good, especially in science. So even though I am young, I have flexible working hours and was lucky to end up in a critical need area that pays. Therefore I give back to the public community that helped produce me. The science community that too often has to look outside of our own borders to find competent people.

You can thank conservatives for ruining the reading lists in the State of Texas. This is plain and simple. You can also thank conservatives for trying to leave out some of the greatest, most profound ideas in science. Yes CONSERVATIVES.

Who ruined the textbooks in Florida?

I commend you for giving back to your community - I especially like one-on-one mentoring like Big Brothers or for me teaching someone how to read - makes a big difference in someone's life. So many people have helped me through my struggles with my allergic/asthmatic child - I thank all the moms who experimented/tried different things and posted them on the internet.

I have no beef with Florida's (middle school and above) textbooks - except their outrageous expense. The ones I've come in contact with are the standard publishers - McGraw Hill, Holt, etc - always secular. Our school system is very liberal, but when it comes to sensitive material (like sex education), they allow you to opt out if you want. My dd says her friends took 4 years of computer science in their Texas high schools. She only took the one year offered here. Don't know about the other sciences there. My kids learn evolution in high school and we discuss at home - they had previously learned creationism at home and at church.

If anyone here has young kids, I highly recommend Primary Mathematics. It's my favorite curriculum - concise, teaches critical thinking and the basics at depth (instead of traditional US math textbooks which are a mile wide and an inch deep) - excellent - Singapore's elementary-aged kids all use it and their 4th and 8th graders consistently score at the very top in international tests. I also love Susan Wise Bauer's "Story of the World" series - world history at 1st-4th grade level - fantastic listen (audio version) on long car trips.

The beef I have is with the READING books - seems like most of the classics are out - replaced by books with current politically correct issues.

[RandomGuy]

I commend you for giving back to your community - I especially like one-on-one mentoring like Big Brothers or for me teaching someone how to read - makes a big difference in someone's life. So many people have helped me through my struggles with my allergic/asthmatic child - I thank all the moms who experimented/tried different things and posted them on the internet.

I have no beef with Florida's (middle school and above) textbooks - except their outrageous expense. The ones I've come in contact with are the standard publishers - McGraw Hill, Holt, etc - always secular. Our school system is very liberal, but when it comes to sensitive material (like sex education), they allow you to opt out if you want. My dd says her friends took 4 years of computer science in their Texas high schools. She only took the one year offered here. Don't know about the other sciences there. My kids learn evolution in high school and we discuss at home - they had previously learned creationism at home and at church.

If anyone here has young kids, I highly recommend Primary Mathematics. It's my favorite curriculum - concise, teaches critical thinking and the basics at depth (instead of traditional US math textbooks which are a mile wide and an inch deep) - excellent - Singapore's elementary-aged kids all use it and their 4th and 8th graders consistently score at the very top in international tests. I also love Susan Wise Bauer's "Story of the World" series - world history at 1st-4th grade level - fantastic listen (audio version) on long car trips.

The beef I have is with the READING books - seems like most of the classics are out - replaced by books with current politically correct issues.

? "creationism".

What happens when your kids find out they have been lied to?

Creationism isn't even close to science, and maintaining that belief system requires active distortions, and outright fabrication of facts. If your kids are smart, they will figure that out if they ever really get into seriously looking at the evidence.

[pgardn]

? "creationism".

What happens when your kids find out they have been lied to?

Creationism isn't even close to science, and maintaining that belief system requires active distortions, and outright fabrication of facts. If your kids are smart, they will figure that out if they ever really get into seriously looking at the evidence.

This is why I asked about AP BIO and AP physics

[rmt]

? "creationism".

What happens when your kids find out they have been lied to?

Creationism isn't even close to science, and maintaining that belief system requires active distortions, and outright fabrication of facts. If your kids are smart, they will figure that out if they ever really get into seriously looking at the evidence.

I use a term palatable to you - because you really don't want to hear that I believe in an Almighty Creator that put this world so perfectly together. You'd probably prefer to hear that there was a Big Bang and this planet just drifted together and randomly came to be - that these atoms came together by chance and apes (or whatever the theory is) evolved into a fantastic body like Lebron's. You are assuming that Christians and science are incompatible. To tell the truth, I didn't even teach my kids any science - just let them read a myriad of books. BTW, Let's Read and Find Out Science series is excellent (for those of you with young kids). They all started formal science at Physical Science, then Bio, Chem, Physics, AP sciences and they all did fine starting late (mostly because their foundation in math and reading is strong and I'm not a science - more of a history - person) and they haven't suffered for the late start. My oldest is very smart, my second is above average and my youngest is average and not one of them is going to one day get up and decide that the God that they believe made this world, who guides them each day and who they have a personal relationship with is fabrication - it's called faith.

[rmt]

http://www.relevantmagazine.com/god/worldview/9-groundbreaking-scientists-who-happened-be-christians

Galileo - one of the most important and influential physicists, astronomers, inventors and scientists to ever live - under house arrest for his research
Francis Bacon - ironically the one who established The Scientific Method
Isaac Newton - He has been called "the greatest scientific genius the world has known." Yet he spent less time on science than on theology:

http://www.christianitytoday.com/history/issues/issue-30/faith-behind-famous-isaac-newton.html

[pgardn]

I use a term palatable to you - because you really don't want to hear that I believe in an Almighty Creator that put this world so perfectly together. You'd probably prefer to hear that there was a Big Bang and this planet just drifted together and randomly came to be - that these atoms came together by chance and apes (or whatever the theory is) evolved into a fantastic body like Lebron's. You are assuming that Christians and science are incompatible. To tell the truth, I didn't even teach my kids any science - just let them read a myriad of books. BTW, Let's Read and Find Out Science series is excellent (for those of you with young kids). They all started formal science at Physical Science, then Bio, Chem, Physics, AP sciences and they all did fine starting late (mostly because their foundation in math and reading is strong and I'm not a science - more of a history - person) and they haven't suffered for the late start. My oldest is very smart, my second is above average and my youngest is average and not one of them is going to one day get up and decide that the God that they believe made this world, who guides them each day and who they have a personal relationship with is fabrication - it's called faith.


What exactly is the problem?

For example, the Catholic Church accepts evolution and the Big Bang. There are many Christians who do. But these Christians know much less about God's ways than you appear to.

This is again the most basic misunderstanding of what science can and cannot do. Science CANNOT deal with the supernatural, spiritual, and the faith that drives these very human qualities. There is no good reason why you cannot accept this idea unless you choose to do so. There is really no reason you cannot have faith in a God and understand science and accept the differences unless you limit yourself. Any scientist who tells you human beings have got the world about us all figured out or will do so is a con artist IMO.

And yes there are scientist and others who are atheists because they have been trained to approach every question without using the supernatural or a God. Spirituality IMO is a whole different subject.

Too bad for you and your kids and the strict machine those that think human reason is flawless . But then again, too bad for anyone who thinks they got "it" ALL figured out. IMO, all schools should be required to teach what science can and cannot do.

[boutons_deux]

Hinkley Point C critics try to derail it amid Brexit vote turmoil

Board of EDF, energy project’s key backer, is at risk of fracturing as ex-supporters worry about uncertainty of British government

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jul/01/hinkley-point-c-critics-try-to-derail-it-amid-brexit-vote-turmoil

[rmt]

What exactly is the problem?

For example, the Catholic Church accepts evolution and the Big Bang. There are many Christians who do. But these Christians know much less about God's ways than you appear to.

This is again the most basic misunderstanding of what science can and cannot do. Science CANNOT deal with the supernatural, spiritual, and the faith that drives these very human qualities. There is no good reason why you cannot accept this idea unless you choose to do so. There is really no reason you cannot have faith in a God and understand science and accept the differences unless you limit yourself. Any scientist who tells you human beings have got the world about us all figured out or will do so is a con artist IMO.

And yes there are scientist and others who are atheists because they have been trained to approach every question without using the supernatural or a God. Spirituality IMO is a whole different subject.

Too bad for you and your kids and the strict machine those that think human reason is flawless . But then again, too bad for anyone who thinks they got "it" ALL figured out. IMO, all schools should be required to teach what science can and cannot do.

Huh? Where did I say that human reason is flawless? Am I not arguing the opposite? You and RG are the ones asking me about AP Bio/Physics, evolution/creationism and I simply explained that my kids are taught from a young age at home and in church that God created the world - that is a major belief in Christianity and Judaism. They don't study the subject of evolution until high school and it's no big deal - they study, pass their test, and move on. You guys are the ones making a big deal out of this.

[pgardn]

Huh? Where did I say that human reason is flawless? Am I not arguing the opposite? You and RG are the ones asking me about AP Bio/Physics, evolution/creationism and I simply explained that my kids are taught from a young age at home and in church that God created the world - that is a major belief in Christianity and Judaism. They don't study the subject of evolution until high school and it's no big deal - they study, pass their test, and move on. You guys are the ones making a big deal out of this.

Actually you did not, I misstated this.

But you are the one who is sure that stated evolution and the Big Bang did not happen. And then imply as a Christian it just can't work. I am saying you are missing it and it is a big deal. So you are not simply stating that God created the world. You are also saying the Big Bang did not. You are stating evolution did not take place. This is at odds with many Christians and Jews.

So, and this is a big deal in a sense of how accepting you are of others faith, do you believe if a person believes in these scientific truths (as they now stand) they cannot be true Chrstians and Jews?

[pgardn]

Hinkley Point C critics try to derail it amid Brexit vote turmoil

Board of EDF, energy project’s key backer, is at risk of fracturing as ex-supporters worry about uncertainty of British government

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jul/01/hinkley-point-c-critics-try-to-derail-it-amid-brexit-vote-turmoil




Good article.

Basically this is what I was trying to state to CC with a personal example. When funding for the future is in doubt, all kinds of economic activity tied to future projects affect the behavior of people NOW.

[CosmicCowboy]

Actually you did not, I misstated this.

But you are the one who is sure that stated evolution and the Big Bang did not happen. And then imply as a Christian it just can't work. I am saying you are missing it and it is a big deal. So you are not simply stating that God created the world. You are also saying the Big Bang did not. You are stating evolution did not take place. This is at odds with many Christians and Jews.

So, and this is a big deal in a sense of how accepting you are of others faith, do you believe if a person believes in these scientific truths (as they now stand) they cannot be true Chrstians and Jews?

I think there is a compromise position where you can believe that a higher power created the evolutionary mechanism (DNA etc) It's a huge leap of faith to think humans ultimately evolved from a single cell amoeba.

[boutons_deux]

It's a huge leap of faith

10Ms of US Christian extremists, suckered by the Christ industry grifters in their $Ms tax-free "parsonnages" and deductible private jets, live multiple, HUGE "leaps of faith".

Scientists are observing evolution and even speciation in a single human lifetime. In 100Ms years, or Bs? Everything is imaginable.

[rmt]

Actually you did not, I misstated this.

But you are the one who is sure that stated evolution and the Big Bang did not happen. And then imply as a Christian it just can't work. I am saying you are missing it and it is a big deal. So you are not simply stating that God created the world. You are also saying the Big Bang did not. You are stating evolution did not take place. This is at odds with many Christians and Jews.

So, and this is a big deal in a sense of how accepting you are of others faith, do you believe if a person believes in these scientific truths (as they now stand) they cannot be true Chrstians and Jews?


I use a term palatable to you - because you really don't want to hear that I believe in an Almighty Creator that put this world so perfectly together. You'd probably prefer to hear that there was a Big Bang and this planet just drifted together and randomly came to be - that these atoms came together by chance and apes (or whatever the theory is) evolved into a fantastic body like Lebron's. You are assuming that Christians and science are incompatible.

Please re-read what I posted. Either I am not expressing myself well or you are not getting what I mean to convey.

Not all Christians and Jews believe/live their faith the same way. Orthodox Jews are much stricter than most American Jews. Catholics believe in a Virgin Mary, etc. This situation is precisely why I prefer to avoid all talk of religion on this board - we go from an innocent conversation on EU to this.

[pgardn]

I think there is a compromise position where you can believe that a higher power created the evolutionary mechanism (DNA etc) It's a huge leap of faith to think humans ultimately evolved from a single cell amoeba.

My belief its a huge leap of faith when you have your God figured out. Especially when you start applying what you know about your God to complex creative mechanisms, you take a leap. When you apply your God more towards morality it's not. Science does not do complex morality.

[pgardn]

Please re-read what I posted. Either I am not expressing myself well or you are not getting what I mean to convey.

Not all Christians and Jews believe/live their faith the same way. Orthodox Jews are much stricter than most American Jews. Catholics believe in a Virgin Mary, etc. This situation is precisely why I prefer to avoid all talk of religion on this board - we go from an innocent conversation on EU to this.

Yep.

This happens all the time on this board. I usually avoid stuff I have not thought about enough. You won't find me in the computer gaming section, the rap music discussions, and so many more. The political section is a tough place. I have to ask a lot of questions about guns. Cyber stuff, encryption... So much stuff I don't know.

So can you answer my question? It's about you, not some Chrstians. Do you believe that one cannot be a true Christian if one believes that the Big Bang and evolution have occurred? If you choose not to I'm good. It just interesting to me so when I deal with people I understand them better (not people on thi board necessarily either)

[rmt]

My belief its a huge leap of faith when you have your God figured out. Especially when you start applying what you know about your God to complex creative mechanisms, you take a leap. When you apply your God more towards morality it's not. Science does not do complex morality.

Where do I say that I have my God figured out? - it is quite the opposite. I am daily humbled and amazed by Him, and everything I have is what He provides. You are putting words in my mouth and making assumptions.

[rmt]

Yep.

This happens all the time on this board. I usually avoid stuff I have not thought about enough. You won't find me in the computer gaming section, the rap music discussions, and so many more. The political section is a tough place. I have to ask a lot of questions about guns. Cyber stuff, encryption... So much stuff I don't know.

So can you answer my question? It's about you, not some Chrstians. Do you believe that one cannot be a true Christian if one believes that the Big Bang and evolution have occurred? If you choose not to I'm good. It just interesting to me so when I deal with people I understand them better (not people on thi board necessarily either)

You are making a lot of assumptions - implying that the reason I don't want to talk religion (in regards to evolution) is because I haven't thought enough about it.

In answer to your question - no. A Christian is one who believes that Jesus is his Lord and Savior. You've heard of John 3:16, "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever BELIEVES in him shall not perish but have eternal life." All that is required is BELIEF (faith - not works) - meaning someone could be on his death bed and accept Jesus as his Lord and Savior right before he breathes his last breath - he's a Christian. Doesn't matter what one thinks about Big Bang or evolution. Once saved, always saved although the Bible does say there is one unforgivable sin.

[pgardn]

You are making a lot of assumptions - implying that the reason I don't want to talk religion (in regards to evolution) is because I haven't thought enough about it.

In answer to your question - no. A Christian is one who believes that Jesus is his Lord and Savior. You've heard of John 3:16, "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever BELIEVES in him shall not perish but have eternal life." All that is required is BELIEF (faith - not works) - meaning someone could be on his death bed and accept Jesus as his Lord and Savior right before he breathes his last breath - he's a Christian. Doesn't matter what one thinks about Big Bang or evolution. Once saved, always saved although the Bible does say there is one unforgivable sin.

Cool.

So one could believe in and accept Jesus as Lord and savior and AT THE SAME TIME believe that evolution and the big bang occurred and still be a Christian.

So now away from religion.

Why don't you personally believe that evolution and the Big Bang have occurred?

[pgardn]

Where do I say that I have my God figured out? - it is quite the opposite. I am daily humbled and amazed by Him, and everything I have is what He provides. You are putting words in my mouth and making assumptions.

Then were did your lack of belief in evolution and the Big Bang arise?

[pgardn]

I use a term palatable to you - because you really don't want to hear that I believe in an Almighty Creator that put this world so perfectly together. You'd probably prefer to hear that there was a Big Bang and this planet just drifted together and randomly came to be - that these atoms came together by chance and apes (or whatever the theory is) evolved into a fantastic body like Lebron's. You are assuming that Christians and science are incompatible. To tell the truth, I didn't even teach my kids any science - just let them read a myriad of books. BTW, Let's Read and Find Out Science series is excellent (for those of you with young kids). They all started formal science at Physical Science, then Bio, Chem, Physics, AP sciences and they all did fine starting late (mostly because their foundation in math and reading is strong and I'm not a science - more of a history - person) and they haven't suffered for the late start. My oldest is very smart, my second is above average and my youngest is average and not one of them is going to one day get up and decide that the God that they believe made this world, who guides them each day and who they have a personal relationship with is fabrication - it's called faith.

Sorry I gotta get back to this post.

Reread this and then maybe think about what you have figured out about your God.
You are using reason to understand and describe his ways. Mainly by stating that you find personal aspects of what might be his ways impossible. You are further along in your understanding than I am.

[rmt]

Cool.

So one could believe in and accept Jesus as Lord and savior and AT THE SAME TIME believe that evolution and the big bang occurred and still be a Christian.

So now away from religion.

Why don't you personally believe that evolution and the Big Bang have occurred?

Yes, accepting Christ as one's Savior is just the first step. Reading the bible is not a requirement (as in the dying man example) but a normal progression as a Christian seeks to follow God. Most Christians accept the bible as God's Word (in varying literal meaning). A lot of Catholics don't read the bible themselves - the priest acts as an intermediary - interpreting it for them in Mass. On the other more evangelical end, they take a very literal interpretation. So the Creation account at the beginning of the bible is believed by some as little more than a story all the way to exactly the way told in the bible. I'm am on the more literal interpretation end.

Don't see all this as that I'm knocking science - all my kids are heading into science. My husband and I are computer science (yeah, I know, not really related) majors. I'm just not particularly interested in it compared to the importance that God holds in my life. The Big Bang, in particular, just doesn't make sense to me - that's a whole lot of randomness and chance.

And for your other post, it's more a case of the more I think I know (about God), the more I realize I don't know but I trust that He has my best interests at heart and even when I've struggled - in the end, looking back, it made me stronger.

[pgardn]

Yes, accepting Christ as one's Savior is just the first step. Reading the bible is not a requirement (as in the dying man example) but a normal progression as a Christian seeks to follow God. Most Christians accept the bible as God's Word (in varying literal meaning). A lot of Catholics don't read the bible themselves - the priest acts as an intermediary - interpreting it for them in Mass. On the other more evangelical end, they take a very literal interpretation. So the Creation account at the beginning of the bible is believed by some as little more than a story all the way to exactly the way told in the bible. I'm am on the more literal interpretation end.

Don't see all this as that I'm knocking science - all my kids are heading into science. My husband and I are computer science (yeah, I know, not really related) majors. I'm just not particularly interested in it compared to the importance that God holds in my life. The Big Bang, in particular, just doesn't make sense to me - that's a whole lot of randomness and chance.

And for your other post, it's more a case of the more I think I know (about God), the more I realize I don't know but I trust that He has my best interests at heart and even when I've struggled - in the end, looking back, it made me stronger.

And I have absolutely no problem with the honesty above.
And back to Brexit.

Sorry for the lawyer like questions. It just interests me. It helps me have a better understanding for how people approach these subjects.

[rmt]

UK-related:

Go Sam Querry - win one for the US - stop that calendar Grand Slam.

[Shastafarian]

All that is required is BELIEF (faith - not works) - meaning someone could be on his death bed and accept Jesus as his Lord and Savior right before he breathes his last breath - he's a Christian. Doesn't matter what one thinks about Big Bang or evolution. Once saved, always saved although the Bible does say there is one unforgivable sin.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bm38xVMa5Ic

That's what rational people think about your religion FYI.

[rmt]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bm38xVMa5Ic

That's what rational people think about your religion FYI.

Posters who mock or bait are precisely why I don't want to discuss religion on this board. Pgardn, otoh, seeks to understand other povs and has sincere questions. I am happy to answer anyone who is truly curious.

[Shastafarian]

Posters who mock or bait are precisely why I don't want to discuss religion on this board. Pgardn, otoh, seeks to understand other povs and has sincere questions. I am happy to answer anyone who is truly curious.

OBL didn't commit the unforgivable sin to my knowledge so what about that cartoon is "mocking"? I suppose to could say dogmatic truth is being mocked because it's asinine. If you think a 7 second cartoon that helps expose a huge problem with your religion is "baiting" then so be it. I'm not surprised coming from someone who didn't even bother to teach their children science.

[rmt]

OBL didn't commit the unforgivable sin to my knowledge so what about that cartoon is "mocking"? I suppose to could say dogmatic truth is being mocked because it's asinine. If you think a 7 second cartoon that helps expose a huge problem with your religion is "baiting" then so be it. I'm not surprised coming from someone who didn't even bother to teach their children science.

Do you think OBL, a devout Muslim would be saying, much less truly believing that Jesus is his Lord and Savior? The unforgivable sin probably only applies in the context of people who are already saved (as in what could unsave them) - not to nonbelievers.

My children's science education is fine. One does not have to actively teach in order for children to learn. The library and internet are filled with science books and resources. And homeschooling affords a lot more time to try different, nontraditional things like coding a website (at 9 years old).

[spankadelphia]

The left has made a mockery of the humanities and social sciences for 30+ years. They have undermined the very fabric of our civilization by obliterating any notion of objective truth in society. "Everything is relative, man!"

Critical Race Theory, Boasian Anthropology, no more Western Civilization courses cuz "we wuz kingz" n shit.

:downspin:

[Shastafarian]

Do you think OBL, a devout Muslim would be saying, much less truly believing that Jesus is his Lord and Savior? The unforgivable sin probably only applies in the context of people who are already saved (as in what could unsave them) - not to nonbelievers.I'm not surprised you missed the point of that cartoon. It's irrelevant whether the actual OBL asked to be saved. The cartoon is correctly pointing out that he could have and according to many devout people, he would be accepted in heaven. lol


My children's science education is fine.Says who? You?

One does not have to actively teach in order for children to learn. The library and internet are filled with science books and resources.:rollin Weren't you homeschooling them? I wish I had a teacher that told me, "meh [subject] isn't my strong suit. Go browse the internet for a while and see how much you learn."

And homeschooling affords a lot more time to try different, nontraditional things like coding a website (at 9 years old).Ever wonder why some of those things aren't traditional? I think it's hilarious that a non-native citizen who doesn't have a job and complains about high taxes chose to homeschool their children. Really allows me to get an idea of the mindset of you and your husband. :tu

[rmt]

I'm not surprised you missed the point of that cartoon. It's irrelevant whether the actual OBL asked to be saved. The cartoon is correctly pointing out that he could have and according to many devout people, he would be accepted in heaven. lol

Says who? You?
:rollin Weren't you homeschooling them? I wish I had a teacher that told me, "meh [subject] isn't my strong suit. Go browse the internet for a while and see how much you learn."
Ever wonder why some of those things aren't traditional? I think it's hilarious that a non-native citizen who doesn't have a job and complains about high taxes chose to homeschool their children. Really allows me to get an idea of the mindset of you and your husband. :tu

I think you missed the point. Salvation is/was available to all - yes, that includes Hitler, OBL, whatever bad guy you can think of. We have all sinned and no matter what we have done before, if we repent, salvation is available. Now whether one chooses to accept is my point.

Says being 1 of 40 accepted into FSU's (one of our state universities) math and science summer camp, being offered freshman tuition and out-of-state waiver to join UT's Turing Honors program, interning at Google, AP scores, SAT 2 test scores, need I go on...

My focus in homeschooling was the 3 Rs. Once a child reads well, writes well and knows math, he can teach himself just about anything. Of course, he requires guidance and asks questions but nothing that my husband can't answer or be found on the internet. And which do you prefer - to be spoon fed everything or to be given the tools to learn how to think for one's self? What is science especially before high school but applied reading and in high school adding in applied math? There are all kinds of ways of educating kids - and the more different methods is beneficial - homeschooling, self-schooling, online, traditional (whether private, charter or public) and each one has value and its proper function. I take advantage of all of them.

I don't consider myself as not having a job - I have the best job in the world - to stay home and take care of my family. I am against MORE taxes (usually when discussing free healthcare/college tuition). I want taxes to stay the same and for them to work down the debt and lower taxes for corporations so that they will come back/stay here. And as far as money is concerned, I don't do badly. How about NUGT - $108 on Tuesday and hits $147 on Friday - never seen a stock like that.

When your 9 year old says I wanna do a website for my Pokemon stuff, what's one to do but give her a HTML book and say "Go at it" - I don't put limits on what they want to try or do. If it's possible and is within our budget, I think it's a great idea to try stuff.

OT: Congratulations to American Sam Querry on beating world #1 Djokovic at Wimbledon and stopping the calendar Grand Slam.

[rmt]

Shastafarian, one more thought. Just so you don't think that I scoff at the traditional, I want to make a plug (for anyone ever considering homeschooling) for The Well Trained Mind: A Guide to Classical Education at Home - I did Language Arts and History based on this book by Susan Wise Bauer (also author of Story of the World). It teaches the really old fashioned way (a la Benjamin Franklin) of copy work, narration, dictation, outlining, heavy on the grammar and none of the current method of first graders writing 2 pages of what they did on their summer holiday.

[Shastafarian]

I think you missed the point. Salvation is/was available to all - yes, that includes Hitler, OBL, whatever bad guy you can think of. We have all sinned and no matter what we have done before, if we repent, salvation is available. Now whether one chooses to accept is my point.Again, I understand that dogma. That is exactly what the cartoon is lambasting.


I don't consider myself as not having a job - I have the best job in the world - to stay home and take care of my family.Not recognized as a real job unfortunately

I am against MORE taxes (usually when discussing free healthcare/college tuition). I want taxes to stay the same and for them to work down the debt and lower taxes for corporations so that they will come back/stay here. :lol any idea how many corporations don't pay any taxes at all? So basically you're for GIVING corporations money (which we also do with huge subsidies). That's cute.

And as far as money is concerned, I don't do badly. How about NUGT - $108 on Tuesday and hits $147 on Friday - never seen a stock like that. Which makes your conservatism even more detestable. My favorite Jesus quote is, "Blessed be the poor, for staying poor when the rich get lower taxes is super awesome."


When your 9 year old says I wanna do a website for my Pokemon stuff, what's one to do but give her a HTML book and say "Go at it" - I don't put limits on what they want to try or do. If it's possible and is within our budget, I think it's a great idea to try stuff.That's all well and good. But that's not what school is. That's a hobby for a 9 year old. Maybe someday that hobby will turn into something more but to use that as an example of the benefits of homeschooling is ROFL.


Shastafarian, one more thought. Just so you don't think that I scoff at the traditional, I want to make a plug (for anyone ever considering homeschooling) for The Well Trained Mind: A Guide to Classical Education at Home - I did Language Arts and History based on this book by Susan Wise Bauer (also author of Story of the World). It teaches the really old fashioned way (a la Benjamin Franklin) of copy work, narration, dictation, outlining, heavy on the grammar and none of the current method of first graders writing 2 pages of what they did on their summer holiday.
How about you just don't homeschool? There are better options for almost everyone. Private or public, unless you're an educator by heart/trade (someone who can teach science for example) homeschooling should be a last resort.

[Winehole23]

existential threat to Germany?


The Germans’ primordial fear is the loss of the European free trade zone. This is an existential issue for them. This is why, for all the German posturing, in the end the Germans made deals with the Greeks that they knew the Greeks could never comply with. The Germans put on a good show, but they never would have pushed the Greeks out of the EU. Had this happened and the Greek economy improved, it would have set the most dangerous precedent possible for the Germans.


This is the case with the U.K. Exports to Britain are critical to Germany, and the Germans may posture, but they would be cutting off their nose to spite their face by breaking trade relations with Britain. The German fear is that the British decision to leave will spread to other countries and that this might start a reconsideration of the free trade zone.http://www.realclearworld.com/articles/2016/06/29/germany_with_its_back_against_a_wall_111927.html

[rmt]

Again, I understand that dogma. That is exactly what the cartoon is lambasting.

Not recognized as a real job unfortunately
:lol any idea how many corporations don't pay any taxes at all? So basically you're for GIVING corporations money (which we also do with huge subsidies). That's cute.
Which makes your conservatism even more detestable. My favorite Jesus quote is, "Blessed be the poor, for staying poor when the rich get lower taxes is super awesome."

That's all well and good. But that's not what school is. That's a hobby for a 9 year old. Maybe someday that hobby will turn into something more but to use that as an example of the benefits of homeschooling is ROFL.


How about you just don't homeschool? There are better options for almost everyone. Private or public, unless you're an educator by heart/trade (someone who can teach science for example) homeschooling should be a last resort.

You might think that salvation being free and available to all is foolish and worth lambasting, but who then should decide whether someone is good enough to get into a heaven? That's what the Reformation was partly about - that one didn't have to "work" one's way there - that you just believe and you're in.

What is a job? A way of making money - well, I've found other ways to do that from my home. Self-fulfillment and self-worth - check, I can't think of anything I'd rather do than care for the people most important to me. Why else do you have a job?

Why do you think Burger King has left for Canada and why Actavis/Allergan and Pfizer (which failed) ran off to Ireland? Are so many companies leaving the country to re-organize in other countries because the taxes here are so low? Lower the corporation tax and close off the loop holes.

I render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and I tithe. I give generously of my time and money. Conservatism doesn't mean don't make the most of your God given brain and the best of your opportunities. I am a good steward of what God has blessed me with and I don't think I should be giving the government more of it to waste.

Open your mind to the many different ways of educating a child - it's not just your way of public school. This is part of the reason why education is doing poorly in this country - forcing kids to stay in bad schools just because they live in that neighborhood. We should be open to allowing school choice among public schools, but no, the teachers' unions will fight that tooth and nail - no matter what it does to the kids and their parents keep supporting the democrats and their support of unions to their own kids' detriment. Homeschooling is not just school work - it's a lifestyle - it's educating a child in all areas of life. And that hobby has turned into an internship at Google.

What do you have against home schooling? Am I still not paying property taxes on my home (and my rental) and not making use of those funds - freeing up more funds for other kids. I pay for my own curriculum (which is very cheap compared to public school textbooks). It is naive to think that only an educator by trade can do a good job of education. I am super motivated to educate my kids, I have the freedom to choose curriculum and cater the style of teaching to each child (what works for one child doesn't necessarily work for another) - this is not even counting in the one-on-one individualized time with each child which a public school teacher just can't do. Your suggestion that I don't homeschool is exactly what is going wrong with this country - that you feel that you have the right to tell me what to do, that your idea for MY children is the right one, that homeschooling should be the last resort.

And people homeschool for many different reasons - some for kids with disabilities which the public school doesn't have the resources or time/patience that a loving parent does - others for health/allergies - others because the child is slow/behind (you can go at their pace) or so far ahead, they'd be bored in a (usually elementary) public school setting.

[Shastafarian]

There's way too much to respond to in there but I found that last sentence the funniest. Home school a child because they are bored. A+

[rmt]

There's way too much to respond to in there but I found that last sentence the funniest. Home school a child because they are bored. A+

Please consider how an advanced child would be bored in kindergarten when she already knows how to read, how she could be at home reading whatever interests her, going on further in her studies and not held back by the majority of the class. Think of the possibilities and freedom the library and internet offers to such a child not bound by traditional limits of what she should be learning.

[Shastafarian]

Please consider how an advanced child would be bored in kindergarten when she already knows how to read, how she could be at home reading whatever interests her, going on further in her studies and not held back by the majority of the class. Think of the possibilities and freedom the library and internet offers to such a child not bound by traditional limits of what she should be learning.
They can be unbound when they're not at school. Nothing you have mentioned, other than health concerns, strikes me as a good reason to home school a child, let alone 3. Gifted children have options even in public schools in a state like Texas.

[RandomGuy]

I use a term palatable to you - because you really don't want to hear that I believe in an Almighty Creator that put this world so perfectly together. You'd probably prefer to hear that there was a Big Bang and this planet just drifted together and randomly came to be - that these atoms came together by chance and apes (or whatever the theory is) evolved into a fantastic body like Lebron's. You are assuming that Christians and science are incompatible. To tell the truth, I didn't even teach my kids any science - just let them read a myriad of books. BTW, Let's Read and Find Out Science series is excellent (for those of you with young kids). They all started formal science at Physical Science, then Bio, Chem, Physics, AP sciences and they all did fine starting late (mostly because their foundation in math and reading is strong and I'm not a science - more of a history - person) and they haven't suffered for the late start. My oldest is very smart, my second is above average and my youngest is average and not one of them is going to one day get up and decide that the God that they believe made this world, who guides them each day and who they have a personal relationship with is fabrication - it's called faith.

I don't really "prefer" evolution. It simply is what the evidence shows happens.

The only thing I really "prefer" is the truth. Follow the evidence where it leads, not the other way around. I do agree that science and Christianity, or Islam for that matter, are not mutually incompatible. One can have some rather loose interpretations of the bible/koran that fit in with science, and many do.

As for faith, faith is just the excuse people use when they don't have good reasons to believe in something. Holy books are so obviously the fabrication of human minds, bible included, and just aren't good reasons.

You can't have creationism and thinking kids. Evolution, common descent, and an old universe are supported overwhelmingly by evidence, and teaching kids to ignore that evidence is not teaching them anything useful, but rather hobbling them.

[RandomGuy]

Please consider how an advanced child would be bored in kindergarten when she already knows how to read, how she could be at home reading whatever interests her, going on further in her studies and not held back by the majority of the class. Think of the possibilities and freedom the library and internet offers to such a child not bound by traditional limits of what she should be learning.

That is one way to look at it.

The other way, is that teaching is a skill, and certified teachers have both education and training that home school parents just don't. Schools are concentrations of experts with college degrees and training. I prefer letting teaching be left to those experts. But then again, I am married to one. :)

[RandomGuy]

You might think that salvation being free and available to all is foolish and worth lambasting, but who then should decide whether someone is good enough to get into a heaven? That's what the Reformation was partly about - that one didn't have to "work" one's way there - that you just believe and you're in.

Ish. There is the contradiction.

"all-loving" is logically incompatible with the concept of hell, or withholding heaven. That is a bit like claiming god is a four-sided triangle, or a bed made of sleep.

[rmt]

They can be unbound when they're not at school. Nothing you have mentioned, other than health concerns, strikes me as a good reason to home school a child, let alone 3. Gifted children have options even in public schools in a state like Texas.

So, why would you "bind" them for all school hours - sitting there learning nothing as the teacher goes about teaching the others how to read - is that not a waste of time - to satisfy your idea that a child should be in public school. Well, thankfully, we have the freedom to choose to homeschool our kids and it's not your decision. Gifted options include delving deeper into a subject that's being taught, additional work to the normal - besides, teachers are usually the ones who recommend (after observing children for some length of time) whether to be tested for gifted. It's unlikely that a recommendation and the required testing would be made and completed in kindergarten - probably by 2nd or 3rd grade. Gifted just means that a child has a high IQ - it doesn't mean that he/she knows how to read - that's a skill. A non-gifted child could have already learned how to read too. Regardless, it's surely up to the parent make the decision regarding their child.

[rmt]

RG, much good those schools with "concentrations of experts with college degrees and training" are doing to our kids - unless you are satisfied with the general education of US kids? These experts are not doing such a good job communicating their knowledge to the kids especially (imo) in math. Particularly, in the lower grades, I think that a motivated parent who does have knowledge of her child's learning style/tendencies, will have equal or better results than the average child in an average school with an average teacher. There is a myriad of curriculum available as the home schooling movement has exploded.

Are you the poster whose wife is a community college Chemistry teacher? If so, I'll point back to your statement of the sad state of the results of a test you helped grade.

I doubt that Isaac Newton had loose interpretations of the Bible. By the example I gave above, he spent considerable time really studying it.

God is to use your term "all-loving" but we each have free will to choose.

Can we please stop with the religion discussion? I open myself up to all kinds of mockery and baiting on this topic (much worse [because my faith is so important to me] than the bashing of my political views) and each statement leads down another avenue - from evolution to salvation to free will to I'm sure someone will come up with something else.

[Shastafarian]

So, why would you "bind" them for all school hours - sitting there learning nothing as the teacher goes about teaching the others how to read - is that not a waste of time - to satisfy your idea that a child should be in public school. Well, thankfully, we have the freedom to choose to homeschool our kids and it's not your decision. Gifted options include delving deeper into a subject that's being taught, additional work to the normal - besides, teachers are usually the ones who recommend (after observing children for some length of time) whether to be tested for gifted. It's unlikely that a recommendation and the required testing would be made and completed in kindergarten - probably by 2nd or 3rd grade. Gifted just means that a child has a high IQ - it doesn't mean that he/she knows how to read - that's a skill. A non-gifted child could have already learned how to read too. Regardless, it's surely up to the parent make the decision regarding their child.

Hang on a sec. Are we talking about homeschooling for kindergarten or in elementary school and above? Two very different considerations. It's funny that you think having children go to school is "binding" at all. Young children play and interact with people of their own age. It's a very important social learning period. Once children hit elementary school, they can be guided into the pathway that best suits them, such as gifted and talented programs.

"Well, thankfully, we have the freedom to choose to homeschool our kids and it's not your decision." I'm not so sure your kids will thank you when they go to college. And this statement eerily reeks of the same kind of thinking as anti-vaccine nutjobs.

[pgardn]

These Leave idiots are quitting the repair (Assange), or playing power games in a mess they have no clue how to fix. They are just going to leave it up to the STAY folks to clean up the mess.

The LEAVE folks have more important infighting to deal with:

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-36693200

What a total rubbish pile...

[rmt]

Hang on a sec. Are we talking about homeschooling for kindergarten or in elementary school and above? Two very different considerations. It's funny that you think having children go to school is "binding" at all. Young children play and interact with people of their own age. It's a very important social learning period. Once children hit elementary school, they can be guided into the pathway that best suits them, such as gifted and talented programs.

"Well, thankfully, we have the freedom to choose to homeschool our kids and it's not your decision." I'm not so sure your kids will thank you when they go to college. And this statement eerily reeks of the same kind of thinking as anti-vaccine nutjobs.

You are one who first used the term "unbound." The beginning of traditional education is learning to read which is started in kindergarten (I think that even in public school pre-k (here in Miami), they delay learning to read so that everyone is on basically the same level in kindergarten) and the biggest difference in the lower grades is between those who don't know how to read and those who do - and yes, I still think that homeschooling, particularly in the lower grades would do just as good if not better job than an average public school.

My children did not lack for social learning and learned to interact with people of all ages (not just kids). Efficient home schooling freed up time for 1 1/4 hour daily after-school Spanish program at the local elementary school, soccer, scouting, church activities, home school group meeting (150 families) all day (with art, drama, ceramics, etc classes) on Fridays, and in the upper grades left time for volunteering at the library and being chess mentors - imo, that beats being in school all day and coming home to do homework. And my kids thank me for the FREEDOM they had in home schooling - my daughter wishes she could home school any future children, but I fear in this economy, a one-income family is getting rarer and rarer. Thankfully we have the freedom to home school our kids and it isn't YET your decision - mind you, I do see a day if we keep going in the direction we are, that there might be a time when the government becomes so powerful that we might not have that choice.

When one witnesses a child go into anaphylactic shock in the pediatrician's office after getting a vaccine and the pediatrician tells you don't come back for any more vaccines - go to the hospital with an allergist, one's mind on vaccines changes MIGHTY fast. For healthy children, they're fine. The worst thing is the doctors will only give medical exemption on the one vaccine that caused the reaction - not for other ones - I should subject my child to "trying" the next one - well, no way - never again.

[Shastafarian]

You are one who first used the term "unbound."


Please consider how an advanced child would be bored in kindergarten when she already knows how to read, how she could be at home reading whatever interests her, going on further in her studies and not held back by the majority of the class. Think of the possibilities and freedom the library and internet offers to such a child not bound by traditional limits of what she should be learning.

[rmt]

I apologize - I was the one who mentioned the word "bound" first. I still stand by what I've said above. I don't see why I should be limited by what you think is best for MY children. Look the proof is in the pudding and I am ECSTATIC about the way things have turned out for my children - other than the allergies/asthma for the youngest (and his posture) and the chronic cough the middle seems to get after a cold.

[boutons_deux]

Growing Unease as British Mutual Funds Block the Exit Doors

As one British mutual fund (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/investments/mutual-funds-and-etfs/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier) after another bars its doors to fleeing investors, traders and regulators alike are asking the same question: What does it mean for nervous global markets?

This week, six asset management firms in Britain (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/07/business/dealbook/3-more-property-funds-halt-withdrawals-after-brexit-vote.html?ref=dealbook) decided to refuse, for the moment, cash demands from those seeking to escape funds that invest in commercial real estate in the country. The rush for the exits followed the unexpected decision by British voters to leave the European Union.

So far, the numbers are small enough. Of the 35 billion pounds, or $45 billion, invested in these funds, just under £20 billion has been affected.

Yet to see, in real time, fund companies turning away investors because they cannot quickly unload assets that are hard to sell brings to life a nightmare situation that has long kept central bankers and large investment managers awake at night.

“The market has gotten crowded,” said Ken Monaghan, an investor in high-yield bonds for Amundi Smith Breeden, a global investment company that manages $1 trillion.

“At some point you have to wonder what happens if all these investors decide to go home.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/08/business/dealbook/growing-unease-as-british-mutual-funds-block-the-exit-doors.html

[Blizzardwizard]

Predictably, the right wing nutjobs whose populist campaign that consisted mostly of 'dey took er jerbs', namely Nigel Farage (UKIP Leader), Boris Johnson and Michael Gove had zero plan as to what would happen upon EU exit. Farage has resigned as leader of his party, Johnson said 'fuck that' to running for PM when the position opened up because of him and Gove fell flat on his face and missed getting on the ballot to run for PM.

And somehow people voted in favour of the campaign ran by these spineless fuckers, who ran away when the first load of actual responsibility came their way, fantastic.

[boutons_deux]

How technology disrupted the truth

Social media has swallowed the news – threatening the funding of public-interest reporting and ushering in an era when everyone has their own facts. But the consequences go far beyond journalism

A few days after the vote, Arron Banks, Ukip’s largest donor and the main funder of the Leave.EU campaign, told the Guardian (http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/29/leave-donor-plans-new-party-to-replace-ukip-without-farage) that

his side knew all along that facts would not win the day.

“It was taking an American-style media approach,” said Banks. :lol

“What they said early on was ‘Facts don’t work’, and that’s it.

The Remain campaign featured fact, fact, fact, fact, fact.

It just doesn’t work. You have got to connect with people emotionally. It’s the Trump success.”

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2016/jul/12/how-technology-disrupted-the-truth?CMP=share_btn_tw

[boutons_deux]

Boris Johnson ‘lied a lot,’ says French foreign minister

Britain’s new top diplomat, Boris Johnson, came under sharp fire from his European counterparts on Thursday, with France’s foreign minister declaring that the “leave” campaigner had “lied a lot” during the push for Britain to break with the European Union.

Johnson is now charged, as Britain’s foreign secretary, (http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/theresa-may-prepares-for-queens-summons-as-britain-gets-a-new-prime-minister/2016/07/13/95792540-4851-11e6-8dac-0c6e4accc5b1_story.html) with negotiating a divorce with E.U. colleagues who largely hold him in contempt. The cheerfully undiplomatic former mayor of London has a long history of colorfully insulting other nations and leaders, but the sharpest anger is connected to his campaign for Britain to leave the E.U.

“I have no worries about Boris Johnson, but you know well what his style is,” French Foreign Minister Jean-Marc Ayrault told France’s Europe 1 radio. “He lied a lot during the campaign.”
The reference covers a range of later-discredited claims by the anti-E.U. side before last month’s campaign, including the level of Britain’s payments to the European Union.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/frances-chilly-welcome-for-britains-new-top-diplomat-he-lied-a-lot/2016/07/14/4a12c4ca-49b0-11e6-ae8d-93aef685158e_story.html?wpisrc=nl_most-draw7&wpmm=1

[Winehole23]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/brexit-negotiator-talks-french-michel-barnier-negotiation-insists-eu-article-50-conducted-a7373556.html

[boutons_deux]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/brexit-negotiator-talks-french-michel-barnier-negotiation-insists-eu-article-50-conducted-a7373556.html

:lol Hilarious. Frogs giving the limeys a very big, and deserved, bras d'honneur.

[Winehole23]

High Court: MPs get a vote on Article 50

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-high-court-rules-over-theresa-may-triggering-brexit-process-without-parliaments-backing-high-a3386056.html

[boutons_deux]

High Court: MPs get a vote on Article 50

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-high-court-rules-over-theresa-may-triggering-brexit-process-without-parliaments-backing-high-a3386056.html

Amazing development, could reverse the disaster.

[Winehole23]

Supreme Court could reverse it. If they let it stand and MPs reverse Brexit, could be problematic for Parliament.

[CosmicCowboy]

52-48 wasn't even close

Will the entrenched power vote against the will of the people?

[boutons_deux]

52-48 wasn't even close

Will the entrenched power vote against the will of the people?

Brexit assholes say they emulated Repugs, lie, lie, lie, lie, emotion, emotion, emotion, emotion, bullshit, xenophobia, racism, hide the negative consequences. People who voted to leave didn't even know what was going on. The racists in their intensit queered the campaign. Most people didn't give a fuck, didn't bother to vote.

iow, EXACTLY like the Repugs: their only hope is low turnout and ignorance.

[boutons_deux]

Looks like UK xenophobes are as unprepared for brexit as Trash is to run the White House

UK Government Has No Overall Plan For Brexit, Leaked Memo Says

Britain has no overall plan for Brexit (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/news/brexit/) and the strategy for leaving the European Union might not be agreed for six months due to divisions in Prime Minister Theresa May’s government, according to a leaked memo seen by the BBC and The Times.

The leaked document, prepared for the Cabinet Office by a consultant, said government departments were working on more than 500 Brexit-related projects and might require an additional 30,000 civil servants.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/brexit-no-plan-memo_us_582acc8ee4b0c4b63b0e5896?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=The%20Morning%20Email%20111516&utm_content=The%20Morning%20Email%20111516+CID_6e3 2ea20c57a53fb8472dd352eb5585f&utm_source=Email%20marketing%20software&utm_term=Reuters

But of course, the Brits love to scorn themselves as a country that just "muddles through" everything.

[Clipper Nation]

826876558166093825

[boutons_deux]

Brit John Oliver explains BREXIT to you ignorant, rightwing, Pootin-fellatin assholes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyVz5vgqBhE&feature=youtu.be

[Winehole23]

Britain has painted itself into a corner. It's unready to deal with trade, unready to deal with customs and border issues, and unprepared for the hit to financial services.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/apr/26/eu-doesnt-need-city-of-london-brexit-negotiator-michel-barnier

[pgardn]

It’s a total mess.

They really don’t want to follow thru with what they voted for. It’s become a political football instead of the nation actually trying to come up with a plan. It’s way complicated and gonna hurt. There are so many rules concerning passports, workers visas, foreign workers in England/ English workers in foreign countries, banking, currency, on and on... a mess.

[Winehole23]

Theresa May is lost at sea. Tuff talk won't get her through this. The Irish border issue (i.e., the DUP) could blow up her government before any deal can be concluded.

[Winehole23]

when you've lost the Tory Telegraph...

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2018/04/26/much-better-option-leaving-eu-staring-us-face-could-seize/

[pgardn]

Theresa May is lost at sea. Tuff talk won't get her through this. The Irish border issue (i.e., the DUP) could blow up her government before any deal can be concluded.

Absolutely. The issue of tugging Ireland along has ramifications not well thought out when the vote was made. Scotland as well being a part of GB and a part of parliament.

Its an absolute mess.
The Trumpeters applaud the Nationalists.
But the fix? walk away... pretend it will fix itself just like healthcare.

[Winehole23]

Absolutely. The issue of tugging Ireland along has ramifications not well thought out when the vote was made. Nothing was well thought through when the vote was made.

[Winehole23]

Sad thing is, the Tories still haven't thought it through. GB will pay a big price for the incompetence of Brexiteers, regardless of whether there's a hard Brexit or not.

[pgardn]

Sad thing is, the Tories still haven't thought it through. GB will pay a big price for the incompetence of Brexiteers, regardless of whether there's a hard Brexit or not.

Well I think it makes Chris happy.

Great Britain showed they are not globalists.
Although I’m not sure if he even understands what globalism means.... I’m not entirely sure either

[boutons_deux]

Farage admitted he lied about how much UKL per week UK was dumping into the Continent

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/mar/31/farage-i-admire-putin

well of course he woud do ...

https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/nigel-farage/nigel-farage-goes-ballistic-at-caller-who-accuses/

Brexit is one of Pootin's great victories, right up there with Pootin degrading the USA in the 2016 election, compromising and helping elect Trash.

[Winehole23]

Blaming the Russians for DJT, or Brexit, is ludicrous.

[boutons_deux]

Blaming the Russians for DJT, or Brexit, is ludicrous.

The truth will come out about Farage and his Brexit campaign. He's a dirty trickster, like Ailes, Stone, etc.

[Winehole23]

Barnier has said that the UK needs to resolve the Irish border matter by the June negotiating round. The EU will not discuss the future relationship nor will it sort out details of the transition period before that is resolved.

The EU now has no incentives to relent. In fact, Barnier probably did the EU a great disservice. There was no reason to think the UK would be any more willing to accept a sea border as the only solution for Ireland a few months later than it was last December. If the UK is going to wind up subjecting itself to a crash-out Brexit due to its inability to deal with the consequences of its choices, it is better for all parties to know that as soon as possible to allow them to do what they can to minimize damage.

The Government is refusing to acknowledge that it has no answers. Per North’s discussion above, it somehow keeps telling itself and the British public that the EU is extorting the UK and scheming to steal Northern Ireland. The reality is, as we and others have explained ad nauseum, that the UK leaving the internal market means there has to be a hard border somewhere with respect to Ireland. The EU27 was never going to stand for Ireland turning into a route for smuggling non-EU compliant goods into Europe.
https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2018/05/brexit-crisis-nigh.html

[boutons_deux]

Blaming the Russians for DJT, or Brexit, is ludicrous.

bullshit

[Winehole23]

very weak sauce

[Winehole23]

May talking out of both sides of her mouth. UK wants to remain part of the EU system of patents but pretends the UK won't be subject to the ECJ.


First, the prime minister makes public promises which her government then undoes on an almost simultaneous basis. Second, her administration is prepared to leave some of the most dynamic parts of British industry in a swamp of legal uncertainty for years on end. Third, continental standardisation systems are valuable, especially for modern services-based economies, and Britain will try to stay in them wherever possible, regardless of Brexit. Giving up a bit of control, it turns out, has its upsides.


Duplicity, inaction and confusion, amid a self-inflicted economic threat. It sounds like this is the Brexit debate in microcosm. But actually it’s more depressing than that. This is the better end of the Brexit spectrum. The government is ostensibly doing the right thing. The fact it has to do so very quietly, while ignoring existing legal reality, shows how badly our political climate has deteriorated.
https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/politics/thought-brexit-couldnt-get-any-more-farcical-the-story-of-the-european-patent-court-proves-you-wrong

[Winehole23]

EU starts trade talks with New Zealand and Australia:



….the announcement from Brussels opens up the possibility that the EU could enjoy better terms with the two Commonwealth nations after Brexit than the UK will…


The international trade secretary, Liam Fox, had recently spoken of “reinvigorating” the Commonwealth partnership with a host of trade deals after Brexit, labelled “empire 2.0” by sceptical Whitehall officials.


But the UK will not be able to start its negotiations over future trade with New Zealand and Australia until 30 March 2019. The European commission president, Jean-Claude Juncker, has vowed to complete the EU’s talks with the two countries by 31 October of that year, when his time in office expires
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/may/22/eu-trade-talks-australia-new-zealand-brexit-commonwealth

[Winehole23]

And when we see the EU showboating with the announcement of trade talks with Australia and New Zealand – that could give it better terms than we could achieve – we have to recognise that the free-trade ambitions of the “Brexiteers” are as empty as their rhetoric.

[Winehole23]

UK demands one billion pounds as reimbursement for the Galileo satellite; EU tells UK to pound sand.


The EU has accused the British government of “chasing a fantasy” and warned that it will not negotiate under threat, after a fraught week of Brexit (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/eu-referendum)talks in Brussels that have raised serious concerns about the future of the negotiations.
The whole approach of the UK government to the discussions was castigated by a senior EU official involved, who further warned that the bloc would not be forced into positions that were against its interests.
The UK’s suggestion that it would seek to recover more than €1bn of contributions to the Galileo satellite project unless the European commission lifted a block on British firms being involved received a particularly strident response, with an implicit threat that such posturing could unravel the discussions.
“The EU doesn’t negotiate under threat,” the senior EU official said. “Such a request for reimbursement would be backsliding and unacceptable.”
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/may/24/uk-chasing-a-fantasy-in-brexit-talks-top-eu-official-warns

[Winehole23]

“To paraphrase The Leopard by Tommaso di Lampedusa, I have the impression that the UK thinks everything has to change on the EU’s side so that everything can stay the same for the UK.”

[Winehole23]

In Dublin, Ireland’s taoiseach, Leo Varadkar, confirmed that he had not seen any firm proposals on the Irish border backstop since his meeting with May 10 days ago in Sofia.


“We are still waiting for them,” he said. “We’re not that far away from the deadline for the withdrawal agreement, we’re very much in the space where we need legal text,” he said.

[Winehole23]

May is AWOL on VAT:


The Financial Times published an excellent in-depth report, VAT: Brexit’s hidden border dilemma (https://www.ft.com/content/d8db9a2a-6032-11e8-ad91-e01af256df68). The short version is the Government hasn’t thought about VAT despite it being a large administrative issue with real costs. Goods bought from other EU members now come in without being charged VAT at the border. That will, or rather should, change once the UK leaves the EU.

But since it has no plans to set up the needed infrastructure to assess VAT on these goods, it faces two choices: not charging VAT, which will lead to considerable loss of revenue and will seriously damage British firms, or accept and comply with the EU VAT regime, which means ceding control over VAT charges and accepting the jurisdiction of the hated ECJ.

[Winehole23]

If Britain decided that such friction was too costly for business and chose not to police its VAT border, untaxed imports would flood in from the EU, destroying legitimate business for shops in Britain, says Richard Allen, head of Retailers against VAT abuse schemes. Highlighting this is not just an idle “project fear” threat, he says: there is a precedent from the period before 2012 when VAT-free importing of CDs and DVDs from the Channel Islands wiped out most high street music retailing in Britain. “If you say, ‘to hell with VAT checks at the border’ then everything will be imported,” he says.


The prospect of a hard VAT border is already having a chilling effect on UK business, according to Alison Horner, VAT Partner at MHA MacIntyre Hudson. She says her British clients who supply into EU just-in-time industries are being asked to deliver with VAT sorted out in advance. “This creates a liability to register for VAT in multiple jurisdictions, which is a big cost to business,” she says.

[boutons_deux]

Farage lied his way, coupled with racism/nativism, into really fucking up the UK

Pootin and his mafiya are laughing their asses off, as the EU is weakened (then there's very sick "southern border" Italy, Spain, Greece, but Capital has played a destructive role there)

[Winehole23]

Farage and Cameron both vanished swiftly after the referendum. Unready to face the consequences perhaps.

Your hypothesis that Russia moved the needle on Brexit is totally unsupported here.

[boutons_deux]

Your hypothesis that Russia moved the needle on Brexit is totally unsupported here.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jun/01/nigel-farage-is-person-of-interest-in-fbi-investigation-into-trump-and-russia

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/mar/31/farage-i-admire-putin

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nigel-farage-vladimir-putin-is-the-world-leader-i-most-admire-9224781.html

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/479532/Nigel-Farage-is-another-of-Moscow-s-darlings-as-Putin-backs-Right

Farage pulling UK out of EU is Pootin's strategy, just as Trash pulling US out of intl agreements, degrading USA's softpower is also Pootin's strategy.

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/01/putins-real-long-game-214589

[Winehole23]

You've got only one hook to hang it on: Nigel Farage, and none of the links you gave have any evidence that Russian influence was decisive. Farage is no longer in government and even when he was his parliamentary clout was minimal: it was David Cameron who put Brexit on the ballot.

All I see there is a Farage/Putin mutual admiration society. Pretty weak, tbh.

[boutons_deux]

Farage was the inflammatory face of the BREXIT campaign

lying about how many $100Ms UK was paying EU

turn out was VERY LOW, hardly anybody knew WTF was going on, what BREXIT meant, etc, etc.

With a low turnout and paper-thin margin (much like Trash 80K votes in 135M), Farage very well could have been the difference.

In any case, Farage leading UK out of Europe is exactly aligned with Pootin's strategy. It's more than coincidence.

[Winehole23]

looks like a coincidence to me. you're basically pinning the result on one lie Farage told.

weak sauce.

[Winehole23]

the "No Deal" stakes are high:


Nevertheless, it seems, it was only last month that officials in Davis's Brexit department and the departments of health and transport drew up these scenarios for a no-deal Brexit. Supposedly, there were three levels, mild, severe one and one dubbed "Armageddon".


Conveniently, the newspaper now has a source that tells it: "In the second scenario, not even the worst, the port of Dover will collapse on day one. The supermarkets in Cornwall and Scotland will run out of food within a couple of days, and hospitals will run out of medicines within two weeks".http://eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=86891

[Winehole23]

At the end of week two we would be running out of petrol as well. Officials say that the government would have to charter aircraft, or use the RAF to ferry supplies to the furthest corners of the UK. "You would have to medevac medicine into Britain", the ST's source says.


And all this, we are led to understand, comes from papers prepared for the so-called Inter-Ministerial Group on Preparedness, which meets weekly when parliament is sitting. One official is cited as saying that the scenarios are so explosive they have only been shared with a handful of ministers and are "locked in a safe" - apart from being published routinely in EUReferendum.com (http://eureferendum.com/).


Then, according to "a senior official": "We are entirely dependent on Europe reciprocating our posture that we will do nothing to impede the flow of goods into the UK. If, for whatever reason, Europe decides to slow that supply down, then we're screwed".

[Winehole23]

However, this does not seem to represent any reality that is likely to transpire. It cannot be the case, for instance, that continental authorities will seek to block exports to the UK. Nor will the UK purposefully block the import of foods from the continent.


For sure, the UK will be required under WTO rules to impose checks on those goods to match those applied to other "third countries". But, for a period at least, the UK would most likely waive those requirements in order to keep food supplies flowing.


The real problem is actually very different. It comes when UK traders try to export goods to destinations in EU Member States, only to find that border controls slow the flows to a trickle in each port. It is this that will clog up the ports, preventing the ferries from unloading, disrupting return loading and thus stopping goods being sent to the UK.

[boutons_deux]

looks like a coincidence to me. you're basically pinning the result on one lie Farage told.

weak sauce.

and Farage's admiration for Pootin, of all people.

Farage seems to be an evil, slimey bastard so getting compensated by Russians to push for BREXIT, to weaken Russia's rival the EU is plausible.

[Winehole23]

hah, now just merely plausible. one side effect of backpedalling is kicking up dust.

I doubt anyone is fooled.
.

[RandomGuy]

hah, now just merely plausible. one side effect of backpedalling is kicking up dust.

I doubt anyone is fooled.
.

Sounds oddly familiar. Russia is in some deep shit come the next US administration that hasn't been bought off wholesale. Europe is PISSED, although the Germans aren't so pissed they won't push for another gas pipeline...

[Winehole23]

….the Dutch government has told its exporters that “if a large part of your product consists of parts from the UK” domestic exporters may lose free trade access under existing deals…https://news.sky.com/story/european-businesses-advised-to-avoid-using-british-parts-ahead-of-brexit-11395908

[Winehole23]

However, the very solution that the industry seeks cannot be achieved which means that, if there is a "no deal" Brexit, catastrophic disruption to the aviation industry is inevitable. In legal terms, there is simply no way round this.

What this effectively means is that – as I stated yesterday – "no deal" is not a serious option. The effect on the aviation sector alone is enough to rule it out. Factor in all the other problems, in other sectors, and no responsible government could allow it – and nor could MPs, individually or collectively, permit it...

If our MPs get it wrong, the jobs of hundreds of thousands will be lost, many thousands of businesses will be destroyed and the economy will be irrevocably damaged. There is no room here for doctrine, or riding political hobby-horses. The fate of the nation is at stake.http://eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=86903

[boutons_deux]

Pootin laughing his ass off at the chaos he has wreaked in Europe and USA



Boris Johnson and ‘Brexit minister’ resign, leaving Theresa May’s government in disarray

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/theresa-mays-government-in-disarray-after-shock-resignation-by-brexit-minister/2018/07/09/b86533da-8357-11e8-8f6c-46cb43e3f306_story.html?utm_term=.3224d8e97264&wpisrc=nl_most&wpmm=1

[Winehole23]

Food security is an issue and rationing is not a sell word:


Britain would run out of food on this date next year if it cannot continue to easily import from the EU and elsewhere after Brexit (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/eu-referendum), the National Farmers’ Union has warned.https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/aug/07/uk-run-out-of-food-no-deal-brexit-national-farmers-union

[boutons_deux]

Food security is an issue and rationing is not a sell word:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/aug/07/uk-run-out-of-food-no-deal-brexit-national-farmers-union

I think EU is in a "fuck you, limey hooligans" mood

[boutons_deux]

Brexit: How Trump Strengthens the Case of the Remainers

The Leavers’ hopes for a bilateral trade deal with the United States always seemed very iffy.

After Trump’s UK visit, they are now wholly unrealistic.


The hopes of the Brexiteers – hard or soft – for a positive outcome of their Brexit venture have always run on fumes. And a key part of those “fumes” that have given the Brexiteers hope for their vision of a “global Britain” was a future free trade deal with the United States.

Three facts stand in the way of such a deal becoming a reality.

First, a bilateral deal would be monstrously difficult to negotiate.

Second, does Britain seriously want to become a guinea pig for Trump’s preference for bilateral deals?

Third, to the extent that such talks seemed to be in the realm of the possible, the interview released by The Sun newspaper (https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6766531/trump-may-brexit-us-deal-off/) moments after the dinner in honor of Donald Trump at Blenheim Palace had been concluded

pretty much puts paid to any realistic prospect of a bilateral FTA.

https://www.theglobalist.com/donald-trump-theresa-may-brexit-european-union-trade/

[boutons_deux]

Brexit vote campaign gets £1m from Superdry co-founder

One of the co-founders of the fashion label Superdry has donated £1m to the

campaign for another EU referendum.

Multi-millionaire Julian Dunkerton said he was backing the People's Vote campaign because "we have a genuine chance to turn this around".

The People's Vote, a cross-party group including some MPs, want a public vote on the final Brexit deal.

The government has ruled out another referendum after Britain voted to leave the EU in June 2016.

The UK is on course to leave the EU on 29 March next year.

Mr Dunkerton said he believes the brand he co-launched "would never have become the global success that it did" if Brexit had happened 20 years earlier.

His donation, the largest received by the People's Vote, will go towards funding opinion polls.

He added: "I will be paying for one of the most detailed polling exercises ever undertaken by a campaign so that more and more people have the confidence to demand the democratic right for their voice to be heard."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45235655

[boutons_deux]

Have British Spies Been Hacking the EU?
The European Union has accused British intelligence agencies of disrupting Brexit negotiations—creating a new public dispute that could poison further an already toxic situation

the gist is that that

the European Union has accused the British intelligence agencies of hacking the EU’s side of the Brexit negotiations.

Apparently, some highly sensitive and negative EU slides about British Prime Minister Theresa May’s plan for Brexit, the Chequers Plan (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=16&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiS17PMnfDcAhUNZFAKHbC1DJ4QFjAPegQIABAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.com%2Fnews%2Fuk-politics-44749993&usg=AOvVaw1wynNW2vruMYbH7qd-BjBQ), had landed in the lap of the British government,

which then lobbied the EU to suppress publication.
Of course, this could be a genuine leak from the Brussels sieve (https://www.politico.eu/article/brussels-brexit-strategy-leak-early-leak-often/), as British sources are claiming (well, they would say that, wouldn’t they?).

However, it is plausible that this is the work of the spies, either by recruiting a paid-up agent well placed within the Brussels bureaucracy, or through electronic surveillance.

https://consortiumnews.com/2018/08/17/have-british-spies-been-hacking-the-eu/

And Pootin laughs his ass off as his strategy of degrading, disrupting, embittering the EU continues to succeed.

[FrostKing]

Have British Spies Been Hacking the EU?
The European Union has accused British intelligence agencies of disrupting Brexit negotiations—creating a new public dispute that could poison further an already toxic situation

the gist is that that

the European Union has accused the British intelligence agencies of hacking the EU’s side of the Brexit negotiations.

Apparently, some highly sensitive and negative EU slides about British Prime Minister Theresa May’s plan for Brexit, the Chequers Plan (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=16&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiS17PMnfDcAhUNZFAKHbC1DJ4QFjAPegQIABAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.com%2Fnews%2Fuk-politics-44749993&usg=AOvVaw1wynNW2vruMYbH7qd-BjBQ), had landed in the lap of the British government,

which then lobbied the EU to suppress publication.
Of course, this could be a genuine leak from the Brussels sieve (https://www.politico.eu/article/brussels-brexit-strategy-leak-early-leak-often/), as British sources are claiming (well, they would say that, wouldn’t they?).

However, it is plausible that this is the work of the spies, either by recruiting a paid-up agent well placed within the Brussels bureaucracy, or through electronic surveillance.

https://consortiumnews.com/2018/08/17/have-british-spies-been-hacking-the-eu/

And Pootin laughs his ass off as his strategy of degrading, disrupting, embittering the EU continues to succeed.



EU's handling of migrant invaders does more damage than anything Putin can do.

[boutons_deux]

Pootin ROARING with laughter

France Could Lose Billions In Brexit Trade Route Redirection (https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2018/08/france-lose-billions-brexit-u-trade-route-redirection.html)

In the ongoing Brexit debacle creating a lack of clarity over the future of European trade relations, France may end up getting cut out of important trade routes that bring billions in revenue—and Paris is now up in arms.

France has vehemently slammed the

European Commission‘s proposal to exclude French ports from the planned re-routing of a strategic trade corridor between Ireland and mainland Europe after Brexit.
The new route proposed by the Commission would link Ireland by sea with Dutch and Belgian ports, including Zeebrugge and Rotterdam.

Meanwhile, France‘s Calais and Dunkirk ports would be circumvented.
French Transport Minister Elisabeth Borne (https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1002236/Brexit-news-France-ports-ireland-Brexit-eu-shipping-route-UK-trade) excoriated the move, which could prevent France from taping billions of euros in an EU grant, as “not acceptable”.

In a stern letter to European Commission transport authorities, she said France and Ireland’s “important trade channels” had not been taken into account:

“The geographical proximity between Ireland and France creates an obvious connection to the single market…

Surprisingly, the Commission proposal in no way takes this into account…

This proposal therefore is not acceptable to France.”

For France, much is at stake, including potentially billions in revenues from the ports themselves, jobs and funding for infrastructure from EU programs.

https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2018/08/france-lose-billions-brexit-u-trade-route-redirection.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+NakedCapitalism+%28naked+capi talism%29

[FrostKing]

Current status of Calais

https://i.amz.mshcdn.com/lX7nmMDk4RxmT_tpADxGsg-8Gic=/fit-in/1200x9600/http%3A%2F%2Fmashable.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F09%2Fjwt_Calais_jungle_ 0321-640x426.jpg

[Winehole23]

First tranche of "no deal" technical papers released:


The level of what economists call “risk exposure (https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/pirs.12334)” of no deal is 12.2 per cent of UK GDP. For the EU as a whole, it is 2.64 per cent.https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2018/08/government-s-technical-notices-finally-spell-out-calamity-no-deal-brexit

[Winehole23]

Checquers plan suplexed by EU Council, no plan Brexit is increasingly likely

https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/thumbnails/image/2018/09/21/08/donald-tusk-theresa-may-cake.png (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-theresa-may-donald-tusk-salzburg-cake-mocks-joke-eu-instagram-cherrypicking-a8548136.html)



The “philosophy of cake”, as Mr Tusk has previously described it, has also now more generally entered the Brussels lexicon in areas beyond Brexit as a description of a negotiating party being unreasonable and wanting advantages without responsibilities.

The Prime Minister was visibly shaking and upset at her press conference at the end of the Salzburg meeting following the full-throated rejection of her plan by the other EU leaders, which sources ahead of the summit did not expect in such vivid terms.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-theresa-may-donald-tusk-salzburg-cake-mocks-joke-eu-instagram-cherrypicking-a8548136.html

[Winehole23]

Current status of Calais

https://i.amz.mshcdn.com/lX7nmMDk4RxmT_tpADxGsg-8Gic=/fit-in/1200x9600/http%3A%2F%2Fmashable.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F09%2Fjwt_Calais_jungle_ 0321-640x426.jpgNo four freedoms, no single market.

[Winehole23]

Britain could see widespread medicine shortages if there is no deal to prevent friction at the border with the European Union after Brexit, the AstraZeneca chief executive told the Sunday Times.https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-astrazeneca/astrazeneca-ceo-warns-of-medicine-shortages-after-brexit-sunday-times-idUSKCN1M20Y9?il=0

[Winehole23]

dodgy funding for the leave campaign?


the Electoral Commission said it had found serious offences in the funding of the Leave.EU campaign since the 2016 Brexit referendum, including loans from impermissible donors and the concealment of financial transactions.
The Commission said it suspected criminal offences had been committed and that Banks was not the true source of 8 million pounds ($10 million) in loans to the Brexit campaign groups.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-arronbanks/uk-crime-agency-investigates-brexit-campaigner-banks-over-loans-idUSKCN1N64W0

[Winehole23]

“In our analysis, Rock Services’ then and historic profits were not sufficient to enable it to have funded the 8 million pounds,” the Electoral Commission said, adding that it suspected the company did not fund the payment from its UK income as required by electoral law.

[DMX7]

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-astrazeneca/astrazeneca-ceo-warns-of-medicine-shortages-after-brexit-sunday-times-idUSKCN1M20Y9?il=0

A no deal would be bad at first, but I think it would spark a sense of urgency from both sides that would finally get more compromises.

[Winehole23]

A no deal would be bad at first, but I think it would spark a sense of urgency from both sides that would finally get more compromises.rather a sanguine view.

trade deals are tough enough as it is, imagine how much the tougher when one party is over a barrel.

[DMX7]

rather a sanguine view.

trade deals are tough enough as it is, imagine how much the tougher when one party is over a barrel.

But it's not like trade is going to shut down if there is no deal, they'll revert to WTO rules. That will mean tariffs but it won't mean an end to trade.

[Winehole23]

oh, you sweet person. 20 of the WTO counties challenge the UK petition.

[Winehole23]

it's not easy, nor quick.

Not even Ireland is solved yet.

[Winehole23]

unholy hell is about to break loose in the UK

[Winehole23]

unholy hell is about to break loose in the UKfor the record, I hope I am wrong about that.

[Winehole23]

kind of a big deal: stable text on an Irish backstop and UK/EU customs arrangement.

it's not a deal yet, but if it turns out to be one, that's a very important precondition of a final EU/UK Brexit deal.

https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2018/1113/1010667-brexit-deal/

[DMX7]

kind of a big deal: stable text on an Irish backstop and UK/EU customs arrangement.

it's not a deal yet, but if it turns out to be one, that's a very important precondition of a final EU/UK Brexit deal.

https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2018/1113/1010667-brexit-deal/

Nigel Farage says it's the "worst deal in history".

[boutons_deux]

Nigel Farage says it's the "worst deal in history".

Pootin's tool Farage should STFU.

He lied UK into Brexit as viciously as Trash lied his way into the WH.

Both result in huge disasters.

[Winehole23]

Nigel Farage says it's the "worst deal in history".presumably because UK will have to comply with EU rules during the transition.

what else is he bitching about?

[DMX7]

Pootin's tool Farage should STFU.

He lied UK into Brexit as viciously as Trash lied his way into the WH.

Both result in huge disasters.

The UK doesn't participate in the Euro, doesn't participate in the Schengen Agreement, doesn't want to be part of the proposed European Army, etc. etc., etc... They should be allowed to exercise their right to leave and get a fair free trade agreement.

[boutons_deux]

The UK doesn't participate in the Euro, doesn't participate in the Schengen Agreement, doesn't want to be part of the proposed European Army, etc. etc., etc... They should be allowed the exercise their right to leave and get a fair free trade agreement.

what's fair? they want better than other countries, WTO, etc?

England is still full of idiots, "nationalists" who think England is a superior country still, because 100+ years ago it was ruthless, racist, venal empire.

[DMX7]

what's fair? they want better than other countries, WTO, etc?

England is still full of idiots, "nationalists" who think England is a superior country still, because 100+ years ago it was ruthless, racist, venal empire.

A Canada style trade deal.

[Winehole23]

A Canada style trade deal.wouldn't that set a bad example for anyone else who wants to leave the EU?

can't really see why it's in the EU's best interest to give the UK a sweetheart deal.

[DMX7]

wouldn't that set a bad example for anyone else who wants to leave the EU?

can't really see why it's in the EU's best interest to give the UK a sweetheart deal.

Why would anyone want to leave if it's so great? :tongue

[Winehole23]

indeed.

just saying, if the EU makes it TOO easy to leave, it might not last much longer.

[boutons_deux]

Why would anyone want to leave if it's so great? :tongue

nationalist racist Farage and other BREXITeers told a lot of huge lies, to which he has admitted, that the "stay" crowd couldn't or didn't counter with the truth.

If May had any balls, they would hold another referendum, now that people know what BREXIT means, and it means NEGATIVE for UK

https://www.bbc.com/news/politics/eu_referendum/results

[DMX7]

nationalist racist Farage and other BREXITeers told a lot of huge lies, to which he has admitted, that the "stay" crowd couldn't or didn't counter with the truth.

If May had any balls, they would hold another referendum, now that people know what BREXIT means, and it means NEGATIVE for UK

I watched one of the BBC debates and I heard bad information on both sides. The "remain" camp said there would never be a European Army and just yesterday Angela Merkel called for one in front of the EU Parliament to thunderous applause (except from the UKIP MEPs and a few others).

[Winehole23]

never say never

[DMX7]

On the truly hysterical side of things, UK PM Theresa May apparently called Trump to congratulate him on what he called his "very close to complete victory (Trump's language from his news conference)" in the mid-terms and got berated by him over the phone according to reports. I don't think Trump even tried to convince himself it was actually a victory for him -- it was just a lie.

[boutons_deux]

I watched one of the BBC debates and I heard bad information on both sides. The "remain" camp said there would never be a European Army and just yesterday Angela Merkel called for one in front of the EU Parliament to thunderous applause (except from the UKIP MEPs and a few others).

the referendum was June '16, Trash was not President, Hillary was expected winner and to continue the historical relations with Europe, Trash had not told NATO and EU to fuck yourself because Pootin told me,

so "no EU army" by Stay people wa simply continuing 70 years of European peace

[DMX7]

the referendum was June '16, Trash was not President, Hillary was expected winner and to continue the historical relations with Europe, Trash had not told NATO and EU to fuck yourself because Pootin told me,

so "no EU army" by Stay people wa simply continuing 70 years of European peace

No, they've been talking about this for years. And it wouldn't just be strictly for defense, they argue it's necessary for "intervention".

3/9/2015 - Juncker, President of the EU Comission, Calls for EU Army:

Czcd--zmjUs

[boutons_deux]

Dominic Raab And Esther McVey Resign From Cabinet Over Theresa May's Brexit Deal

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/esther-mcvey-resigns-from-cabinet-over-theresa-mays-brexit-deal_uk_5bebf4b1e4b0783e0a1e0bd3?utm_hp_ref=uk-politics&guccounter=1

[Winehole23]

UK finance to get basic equivalence in draft Brexit deal:


The agreement will be based on the EU’s existing system of financial market access known as equivalence - a watered-down relationship that officials in Brussels have said all along is the best arrangement that Britain can expect.


The EU grants equivalence to many countries and has so far not agreed to Britain’s demands for major concessions such as offering broader access and safeguards on withdrawing access, neither of which is mentioned in the draft deal.”It is appalling,” said Graham Bishop, a former banker and consultant who has advised EU institutions on financial services. The draft text “is particularly vague but emphasises the EU’s ability to take decisions in its own interests.... This is code for the UK being a pure rule taker.”
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-banks/draft-brexit-deal-ends-britains-easy-access-to-eu-financial-markets-idUKKCN1NJ2TM

[FrostKing]

nationalist racist Farage and other BREXITeers told a lot of huge lies, to which he has admitted, that the "stay" crowd couldn't or didn't counter with the truth.

If May had any balls, they would hold another referendum, now that people know what BREXIT means, and it means NEGATIVE for UK

https://www.bbc.com/news/politics/eu_referendum/results
If you had your way, there would be no Native Europeans left alive you genocidal freak.

[boutons_deux]

Why Britain Needs Its Own Mueller

Britain and America, Brexit and Trump, are inextricably entwined.

By Nigel Farage.

By Cambridge Analytica.

By Steve Bannon.

The same questions that dog the US election dog ours, too.

Collectively,

Farage, Banks, and Wigmore refer to themselves as “the Bad Boys of Brexit,”

the title of Arron Banks’s memoir and a nod to Britain’s habit of celebrating the buffoonish provocateur (see also, Boris Johnson). The book makes clear that Nigel Farage, Arron Banks, and Andy Wigmore were the clueless outsiders who somehow triumphed over both the establishment and the odds to take Britain outside the European Union.

“Cambridge Analytica did work for us, yes,” he said. “We just didn’t pay them. They were happy to help.” Help? They had “the same goals. We were part of the same family.” Farage and Bannon—a vice president at the firm—were close, he explained. Why wouldn’t they help?

In 2014, Steve Bannon set up Breitbart News in London with the specific intention of helping and supporting Farage’s campaign to take Britain out of the EU.

The money came from Robert Mercer, the hedge-fund billionaire who would go on to become the single biggest donor to the Trump campaign.

And Cambridge Analytica was another star in their firmament. Of course, they would help.

Brexit, Wigmore explained, was the “petri dish” for Trump.

But the most vital questions have not yet even started to be answered.

What is Nigel Farage’s relationship to Donald Trump?

How might that connect to Russian interference in Anglo-American politics and elections?

And, crucially, why is the British government silent on these matters?

Why has it refused to answer parliamentary questions on these issues?

Why is it ignoring senior politicians’ calls for a wider public inquiry?

The same questions that dog the US election dog ours, too.

Only once, in November 2017, has Theresa May made a speech that accused Russia of trying to interfere in British democracy. Otherwise,

the government has maintained silence. In this, it has been aided and abetted by Facebook.

Hancock was warned by Britain’s security service MI5 that he was a target for Russian intelligence operatives.

a young Russian woman, Katia Zatuliveter, who’d

had a four-year affair with Hancock and had been identified by the intelligence services as a Russian agent and national security threat.

The Home Office made a case that Zatuliveter, then twenty-six, who’d

previously had a relationship with a senior NATO official,

had set out to seduce Hancock, sixty-five. Oleg Gordievksy, a former KGB colonel, described her (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2052827/Katia-Zatuliveter-best-KGB-agent-30-years-claims-colonel.html) to one newspaper as the

“most useful KGB agent for thirty years,”

“We cannot exclude the possibility that we have been gulled—but if we have been, it has been by a supremely competent and rigorously trained operative.”

For two years, a tiny group of journalists has pursued the trail of crumbs over the financing of the Leave.EU campaign.

The question of where the money came from that paid for Brexit did not add up.

sparred with Banks on Twitter, often late at night.

About the number of lunches he’d had with the Russian ambassador.

About his diamonds.

About why, if he’s so rich, he lets out the manor house in which he claims to reside for weddings and lives in a cottage down the road.

About why he and Nigel Farage had gotten involved (https://www.mercurynews.com/2017/03/26/the-bad-boys-of-brexit-throw-their-weight-behind-calexit/) with “Calexit,”

a plan for California to secede from the union.

About Farage’s relationship with Dana Rohrabacher, the representative from California who,

until he just lost re-election, was known (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/oct/28/trump-assange-bannon-farage-bound-together-in-unholy-alliance) as “Putin’s favorite congressman.”

About what Farage was doing when he visited (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/apr/23/when-nigel-farage-met-julian-assange) Julian Assange in Ecuador’s London embassy in early 2017.

the story took a darker turn.

The Russian embassy wrote to call me a “bad journalist (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/nov/19/my-fear-and-fury-in-the-eye-of-the-russia-leave-storm),” and Banks’s and Wigmore’s tone changed from laddish banter to a coarse threat of violence.

what had also changed were

the first indictments from Robert Mueller’s prosecutors, revealing a web of ties that ran through London,

including the identification of the Russian ambassador as a contact between the Trump campaign and Moscow.

London:

the city that Bill Browder, the US-born British businessman who has been pursuing a global Magnitsky Act, says is irredeemably polluted by Russian money.

Among London’s Russian “residents” is the sanctioned Russian businessman Oleg Deripaska—just one of a whole class of oligarchs who’ve mixed with British politicians and donated to British politics and

who are now in Robert Mueller’s sights as an associate of Paul Manafort, the Special Counsel’s leading conviction so far;

just last week,

Deripaska was revealed (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/nov/09/konstantin-kilimnik-russia-trump-manafort-mueller) to have been shuttling Konstantin Kliminik, a suspected Russian intelligence agent, also charged by Mueller, around the world in his jet.

We know that the release of the Clinton campaign’s emails was a defining moment in changing the course of the election.

We know Mueller is following the data trail for evidence of coordination between the Trump campaign and Russian disinformation.

And we know he’s circling Assange’s contacts: Roger Stone, Jerome Corsi, and Ted Malloch, another friend and associate of Nigel Farage, are all pieces of the puzzle.

We know that American intelligence must be working with British intelligence on this.

On the movements in and out of the Ecuadoran embassy.

On the movements in and out of the Russian embassy, as detailed in the first indictment.

We know that Mueller has talked, repeatedly, to Bannon.

We know that he is asking questions about Farage.

Theresa May must have been briefed on all this. She knows. She’s just not telling.

a stash of Arron Banks’s emails. The contents were jaw-dropping.

There wasn’t one boozy lunch with the Russian ambassador. There weren’t even two. Banks had multiple meetings with the Russian ambassador and Russian officials in the run-up to the 2016 referendum.

Banks and Wigmore visited the Russian embassy where the ambassador introduced them to a businessman, Siman Povarenkin. There, inside the embassy, Povarenkin delivered a presentation:

he had not one but two potentially lucrative deals he wanted to pitch to them.

One difficulty for him is that a recent parliamentary report (https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201719/cmselect/cmcumeds/363/36308.htm) on Russian influence in British politics described him as misleading and evasive, and called his spokesman Wigmore “unreliable” and a “self-confessed liar.”

Nigel Farage is the central figure in all this—close to Bannon, close to Banks and Wigmore, close to Trump, linked to Assange.

He has reported me and Jukes to the police and has called me a criminal, a lunatic, a conspiracy theorist, a loony, a blackmailer, a thief, a hacker, a mad cat lady.

The attempted demonization is a distraction story that has worked. The BBC has still not reported on his relationship to Russia,

The Electoral Commission noted that it was unclear where Banks’s £8 million donation had come from

or was “permissible” under election rules that do not allow funding from non-UK sources.

Critically, it’s what happened on Facebook that remains the biggest question of all.

Facebook has become a giant funnel not just for dark ads, but for dark money (https://qz.com/1430632/dark-money-is-getting-around-facebooks-election-defenses/) that evades election finance laws.

It is now not in doubt that Facebook facilitated (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jul/15/elizabeth-denham-data-protection-information-commissioner-facebook-cambridge-analytica) data crimes,

Five times, a parliamentary committee has asked Mark Zuckerberg to answer its questions.

And five times, Zuckerberg has refused.

In the last instance, he said no (https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2018/11/07/world/europe/ap-eu-britain-fake-news.html) to five national assemblies, when, in an unprecedented act, the British Parliament joined forces with counterparts in Canada, Australia, Argentina, and Ireland to invite Facebook’s chief executive to

an extraordinary joint international committee on November 27.

It’s often said that Facebook is more powerful than a nation-state. It’s not; it’s more powerful than five nation-states.

Facebook’s lack of co-operation has been assisted by Theresa May’s government, which won’t co-operate with Parliament either.

From the corridors of Whitehall and Westminster to the studios of the BBC, Britain’s establishment has buried its head in the sand while democracy and the rule of law have been subverted in plain sight.

The government is colluding with an omniscient surveillance superpower.

A hostile foreign power has deployed a chemical weapon on our streets.

However bleak and dark and troubled America seems right now,

it’s not as bleak and dark and troubled as Britain.

You have Robert S. Mueller. We don’t.

https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2018/11/16/why-britain-needs-its-own-mueller/?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=NYR%20Debussy%20opiods%20Brexit&utm_content=NYR%20Debussy%20opiods%20Brexit+CID_5d 81da6fdee9c057d219b0381bfd6506&utm_source=Newsletter&utm_term=Why%20Britain%20Needs%20Its%20Own%20Muell er

[boutons_deux]

New Evidence Emerges of Steve Bannon and Cambridge Analytica’s Role in Brexit

there is new evidence that it did. Newly surfaced e-mails show that the former Trump adviser Steve Bannon (https://www.newyorker.com/tag/steve-bannon), and Cambridge Analytica (https://www.newyorker.com/tag/cambridge-analytica), the Big Data company that he worked for at the time, were simultaneously incubating both nationalist political movements in 2015.

The e-mails, which date back to October of 2015, show that

Bannon, who was then the vice-president of Cambridge Analytica,

an American firm largely owned by the U.S. hedge-fund billionaire Robert Mercer,

was in the loop on discussions taking place at the time between his company and the leaders of Leave.EU, a far-right nationalist organization.

The following month, Leave.EU publicly launched a campaign aimed at convincing British voters to support a referendum in favor of exiting the European Union.

The precise role played by foreign entities in promoting and possibly funding Brexit has been clouded in mystery and controversy.

British law forbids foreign contributions to its political campaigns—just as U.S. law bars foreign campaign contributions.

The laws are designed to prevent international manipulation of domestic affairs.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/new-evidence-emerges-of-steve-bannon-and-cambridge-analyticas-role-in-brexit?mbid=nl_Daily%20111818&CNDID=43758549&utm_source=nl&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Daily%20111818&utm_content=&utm_brand=tny&utm_mailing=Daily%20111818&hasha=992d608214b505003aa04bf10a595031&hashb=542eb31d958e85ddd5a4c3ccf3faae18526a77bd&spMailingID=14642102&spUserID=MTQzNTk4NzA3ODYzS0&spJobID=1521422480&spReportId=MTUyMTQyMjQ4MAS2

[Winehole23]

warehouse space running out as retailers and manufacturers hedge against the prospect of no deal:



As one also gets news (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/nov/18/uk-running-out-of-food-warehouse-space-as-no-deal-brexit-fears-rise) of the UK running out of food warehouse space, as firms seek to stockpile against the possibility of a "no deal" Brexit, one can sympathise with the concerns of business, even if one has to remark that they score "nil points" for political acumen.


The warehouse situation though, is interesting. Retailers and manufacturers have apparently been rushing to stockpile everything from garden peas to half-cooked supermarket bread and cold-store potatoes, with space fully booked for the next six months. Customers are now being turned away.


But what is especially significant is the comment of Malcolm Johnstone, owner of Associated Cold Stores & Transport (ACST). He says he "started getting inquiries two to three months ago, but they reached fever pitch in the last 48 hours", after the chaos in Westminster last week. "There has been a sea change since Wednesday".http://eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=87059

[boutons_deux]

Article 50: Law officer says UK can cancel Brexit

The non-binding opinion was delivered by the European Court of Justice's advocate general.

A group of Scottish politicians has asked the court whether the UK can call off Brexit without the consent of other member states.

The Court of Justice (ECJ) will deliver its final ruling at a later date.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-46428579

[Winehole23]

perhaps there'll be a re-referendum. that and efta/EEA solution are the only possible ways to avoid a "no deal Brexit."

the current deal looks dead in the water. if it fails, a no confidence vote and snap elections are the likely result.

[Winehole23]

Government found in contempt of Parliament for withholding the full legal analysis of Brexit.

Also, if the May/EU deal fails, Commons will have a direct say in what happens next.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46446694

[Chris]

1070075229404389377

[Winehole23]

IN A DESPERATE ATTEMPT TO DISTANCE ITSELF FROM THE IMPENDING SHIPWRECK, A RAT CASTS ITSELF INTO THE OCEAN

[Winehole23]

May cancels vote:


European Council President Donald Tusk said later that the EU was ready to discuss how to smooth ratification of the deal by Britain’s parliament, but added that the backstop could not be renegotiated. He said time was running out for a negotiated settlement and he would convene a Council meeting on Thursday.


The vote postponement marks what many lawmakers cast as the collapse of May’s two-year attempt to forge a compromise under which the United Kingdom would exit the EU while staying largely within its economic sphere.


Sterling skidded to its weakest level since April 2017, falling to $1.2507. It was trading at $1.50 on the day of the 2016 Brexit referendum. Yields on U.S. 10-year bonds dropped to the lowest since late August.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu/brexit-in-turmoil-as-uk-pm-may-pulls-vote-on-her-eu-divorce-deal-idUSKBN1O90X7

[DMX7]

Only the threat of a "no deal" will force the EU to accept a real brexit. They are still largely controlling the terms of the breakup right now.

[Winehole23]

Only the threat of a "no deal" will force the EU to accept a real brexit. They are still largely controlling the terms of the breakup right now.:lol

The EU has been clear. There's no time to renegotiate. Two year clock starts ticking on March 29, 2019

No deal Brexit, efta/EEA and re-referendum are the only choices. May's deal is dead.

[DMX7]

:lol

The EU has been clear. There's no time to renegotiate. Two year clock starts ticking on March 29, 2019

No deal Brexit, efta/EEA and re-referendum are the only choices. May's deal is dead.

They should have been preparing for a no deal all along.

[Winehole23]

They should have been preparing for a no deal all along.well, they didn't and now they're fucked

[boutons_deux]

As Theresa May fumbles Brexit, a far-right backlash is brewing

"On Monday, an EU court ruled that Britain could reverse its withdrawal unilaterally before March 29, 2019, the date of its departure."

https://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2018/1210/As-Theresa-May-fumbles-Brexit-a-far-right-backlash-is-brewing

Ms of far-right British are emotionally stunted in the 19th century, still obsessed with Britain as "sun never sets on" its Empire, England as "exceptional" and better than inferior, empire-less Continentals.

Sorta like Confederate slave states STILL emotionally stunted in the 19th century as slave-holding sadists and knitta haters.

[boutons_deux]

"In Britain, for example, it was places hardest hit by austerity that voted most for Brexit."

https://eand.co/how-austerity-ripped-the-world-apart-3bf944bd8352

The right-wing Trash/Brexit voters are not / will not get anything from Trash or Repug austerity or BREXIT, they will only lose.

[Winehole23]

Tony Major suggests rescinding Article 50.

[Winehole23]

May to face no confidence vote:


British Prime Minister Theresa May, who faces a vote of no confidence in her leadership of the Conservative Party on Wednesday, said any new leader would have to extend the March 29 deadline for Britain’s exit from the European Union.


“A new leader wouldn’t be in place by Jan. 21 legal deadline, so a leadership election risks handing control of the Brexit negotiations to opposition MPs in Parliament,” May said.


“A new leader wouldn’t have time to re-negotiate a withdrawal agreement and get the legislation through Parliament by March 29, so one of their first acts would have to be extending or rescinding Article 50, delaying or even stopping Brexit when people want us to get on with it,” she said.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-may-article50/uk-pm-may-says-a-new-leader-would-have-to-extend-or-rescind-brexit-notice-idUSKBN1OB0WN

[Winehole23]

EU rules out renegotiation:

https://www.france24.com/en/20181211-eu-leaders-may-uk-merkel-juncker-tusk-no-brexit-renegotiations

[pgardn]

Is trump still complementing the UK on their dumbass vote.
What an absolutely unnecessary mess.

But, but...

We have our sovereignty.
Fools...

[boutons_deux]

WE DON’T NEED ANOTHER BREXIT VOTE … WE NEED TWO

a second referendum would solve nothing.

If Leave were to win again, we’d still be stuck choosing between a bad deal and no deal.

And if Remainers win, half the country would rightfully feel cheated after their hard-won political victory of 2016 —

the largest democratic exercise in British history — was essentially brushed under the carpet.

So instead of arguing between the least bad of four terrible options, here’s a fifth option:

Let’s have not one, but two more referendums, to make this a best two-out-of-three thing.
https://www.ozy.com/immodest-proposal/we-dont-need-another-brexit-vote-we-need-two/91461?utm_source=dd&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=12212018&variable=992d608214b505003aa04bf10a595031

[Winehole23]

Richard North, pellucid as ever:


Matthew Parris has a very weird idea of democracy, urging current MPs (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/mps-must-find-the-courage-to-tell-us-we-were-wrong-fq2tspd7v) to take charge of the Brexit process. They must then, he says, tell the voters that they didn't reach the right decision in opting to leave the EU.


What happens then he doesn't exactly specify but one presumes Parris wants MPs to instruct Mrs May's government to revoke the Article 50 notification in a sort of factory reset of Brexit. That then leaves it open as to whether we have another referendum, and what questions might be posed.


But what this former MP doesn't seem to get is the implications of such an action by parliament. But its critics might not that, through the progression of additional European treaties since 1975, it had never exerted itself to insist that the people were consulted. Instead, it has allowed governments to agree successive treaties, stripping parliament of its powers, and handing them to the institutions in Brussels.


Then, when at last the people get a chance to vote and, effectively, instruct parliament to recover the powers it has ceded to Brussels, Parris wants parliament to rise up and tell the people they are wrong, and refuse to comply, acting to ensure that powers remain in Brussels.


There are most certainly other ways of spinning this but there is nobody who can prevent such a view circulating, laying the foundations of a meme that will hold that the only time parliament has seriously exerted itself in the last forty years is to reject the re-acquisition of powers that they have given away. http://eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=87099

[Winehole23]

Tories rebel:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46805269

[pgardn]

This is what happens when you put a complex issue before the public.

This is proving why we vote for people more than we do policy.
All this makes politicians look brilliant.
This was the stupidest vote of all time.
Far worse than electing Trump.

[Winehole23]

price of poker just got a lot higher:


British-ruled Northern Ireland will automatically have a “hard border” with its southern neighbor if Britain leaves the European Union without a withdrawal agreement, the European Commission’s chief spokesman said on Tuesday.https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-ireland-commission-idUSKCN1PG1GV

[boutons_deux]

On the Brink of Brexit: the Only Thing Most People Outside Westminster Know About Brexit is That It’s a Mess (https://www.counterpunch.org/2019/01/22/on-the-brink-of-brexit-the-only-thing-most-people-outside-westminster-know-about-brexit-is-that-its-a-mess/)

It is apparent from what people say that the near hysteria about Brexit in parliament, government and some news outlets is not yet widely shared by the mass of voters.

Instead, there is perplexity and disengagement, though this could swiftly change.

their expectations are low and they do not realistically see them improving, adding:

“The worst thing for me is that you can have a father and mother both with jobs and they still can’t pay for their rent and food, though they are trying their bloody hardest.”

It was poorly educated people on low wages or benefits, living in areas like Thanington, who overwhelmingly voted to leave the EU.

it was older, poorly educated voters who were decisive in the poll.

He writes that “the data confirms previous indications that

local results were strongly associated with the educational attainment of voters –

populations with lower qualifications were significantly more likely to vote Leave”.

every study of the results shows that it was the older and less qualified voters, particularly those living in poor, largely white housing estates, who put Leave on top on the night of the referendum.

“It was partly voters saying a plague on both your houses [when it came to the Conservatives, Labour and Lib Dem parties] and sod you shyster politicians,” he says.

“Partly, it was fear of immigration: if you knock on doors people say ‘it is all these bloody illegals.’”

People do not understand what is going on with Brexit

“I have spent a lot of my life in Europe and I speak French and German, but I still don’t know enough to decide what the country should be doing.”

they do not know what to think, though they strongly suspect that nobody cares what they think, which was one of the main reasons they voted Leave in the first place.

I haven’t found anyone who voted to Leave that has given me a good reason or argument or discussion on why they think it will benefit us.

opposition to the EU is about much more than Britain’s relationship with Europe. It is, among many other things,

an incoherent opposition to the status quo

Brexit will certainly hurt the UK –

weakening links with your largest market is never a good idea for a commercial country –

but the damage may well take the form of slow erosion rather than sudden collapse.

She believes lack of education makes it easy for newspapers or politicians to persuade people that immigrants come to UK solely to live on benefits, take the jobs of local people, and get free treatment from the NHS.

“It is a real Project Fear,” she says,

“it encourages the belief that if these immigrants are going to get more, then you are going to get less.”

feel not so much “left behind” as “left out”,

excluded from “the political system that they feel can’t do them any worse.”

senior officials in the government say in private, as a matter of fact, that Britain is inevitably going to be weaker and poorer if the government achieves its aim of leaving the EU.

They are aghast at seeing old alliances being thoughtlessly thrown away and

the “Irish Question”, which convulsed British politics for centuries, being fecklessly reopened.

The educated classes are deeply worried and demoralised, but don’t know what to do to avert the inevitable shipwreck.

It is only when this becomes clear that we will begin to learn if the proponents of Leave are going to respond to disappointment with apathy or with rage.

https://www.counterpunch.org/2019/01/22/on-the-brink-of-brexit-the-only-thing-most-people-outside-westminster-know-about-brexit-is-that-its-a-mess/

Amazingly parallel to American voting for Trash. Partly because the same mysterious, hidden people were acting in both elections.

"clear the (Dem and Repug) swamp" equals "pox on both your houses"

low-wage, low-ed, older people in both countries voted for Trash and for Brexit,

because they knew both the so-called "democracy" and Capitalism had failed them, so blow the country up, can't get any worse.

And they were all propagandized that non-whites, immigrants were huge problems.

Of course, England's Empire invaded, occupied, de-stabilized, impoverished, exploited brown and black countries for centuries.

[ElNono]

Sony to move Europe headquarters to avoid Brexit disruption

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-46968720

[boutons_deux]

Third of UK businesses considering move abroad

16% already had relocation plans

while a further 13% were actively considering doing so.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-47083214

[CosmicCowboy]

I don't really care whether England stays or goes but presuming that when the smoke clears they won't be able to trade with Europe is ridiculous.

[CosmicCowboy]

The US isn't part of the EU and we do a trillion dollars of trade with them a year.

[Winehole23]

Good point, US will fuck them good.

Who's pretending the EU won't do business with GB, CC?

[CosmicCowboy]

Good point, US will fuck them good.

Who's pretending the EU won't do business with GB, CC?

Boos article insinuated it.


Brexit will certainly hurt the UK –

weakening links with your largest market is never a good idea for a commercial country –

but the damage may well take the form of slow erosion rather than sudden collapse.

[Winehole23]

Hmm, maybe.

But maybe it just suggests Great Britain needs the EU more than it needs GB, and that it is negotiating trade at a serious disadvantage -- which is surely true.

[CosmicCowboy]

Hmm, maybe.

But maybe it just suggests Great Britain needs the EU more than it needs GB, and that it is negotiating trade at a serious disadvantage -- which is surely true.

EU can't afford to let them out too easy so the rest won't start falling like dominos.

[Winehole23]

That's correct.

[koriwhat]

fall to islam already so we can cut ties with all of those capitulating bitches!

[Winehole23]

:lol

[boutons_deux]

I don't really care whether England stays or goes but presuming that when the smoke clears they won't be able to trade with Europe is ridiculous.

England will be able to trade with EU but through the expensive friction of customs and tariff barriers, as before.

Pootin loving how he got this shit going, EU breaking up.

UK Conservatives' Thatcher/Reagan neo-liberalism for the BigCorp and austerity for bottom classes produced

the same desperation,

impoverishment as USA,

the same scapegoating of "blame the non-whites,

the same "blow democracy and Capitalism the fuck up" because the have failed the bottom of society.

A big sticking point is that Ireland is staying in EU, which means customs/tariff barriers on the border between the Republic and N. Ireland.

I guess it also means people will not be able to cross the Irish border freely, either.

It's a fucking mess. Farage, Bannon, billionaire Mercer, Pootin are loving the shit storm.

[koriwhat]

England will be able to trade with EU but through the expensive friction of customs and tariff barriers, as before.

Pootin loving how he got this shit going, EU breaking up.

UK Conservatives' Thatcher/Reagan neo-liberalism for the BigCorp and austerity for bottom classes produced

the same desperation,

impoverishment as USA,

the same scapegoating of "blame the non-whites,

the same "blow democracy and Capitalism the fuck up" because the have failed the bottom of society.

A big sticking point is that Ireland is staying in EU, which means customs/tariff barriers on the border between the Republic and N. Ireland.

I guess it also means people will not be able to cross the Irish border freely, either.

It's a fucking mess. Farage, Bannon, billionaire Mercer, Pootin are loving the shit storm.

last time i gave a fuck about the EU was never. fuckin' burn baby burn!

[pgardn]

last time i gave a fuck about the EU was never. fuckin' burn baby burn!
Actually the abovewould mean you gave a fuck.
You don't like the organization.
Why not?

[pgardn]

I don't really care whether England stays or goes but presuming that when the smoke clears they won't be able to trade with Europe is ridiculous.

Who assumed this?

Britain just made a lot more political work for themselves and for the EU while overall making things more expensive and possibly make it harder to work.
I call that stupid.

[koriwhat]

Actually the abovewould mean you gave a fuck.
You don't like the organization.
Why not?

not necessarily the org; i just don't care for any other country not named the USA. kind of like my bball; i don't give a damn about all other teams not named SPURS!

[pgardn]

not necessarily the org; i just don't care for any other country not named the USA. kind of like my bball; i don't give a damn about all other teams not named SPURS!

I thought Burn baby burn might mean you wished ill will.

[koriwhat]

I thought Burn baby burn might mean you wished ill will.

yeah like i can't wait to watch what the end game is to the social experiment the brits, germs, et al are forcing on their citizens by importing barbaric retards from the ME. burn baby burn is correct!

[velik_m]

Be that as it may, it is too late for the UK. Brexit is going to poison our politics for years to come – the more so as the Brexiters scream blue murder about the EU not giving in to their demands. For the fact that Brexiters are being forced to face reality does not mean that they will accept it as such. But that is no longer the EU’s problem. It’s ours.

http://chrisgreybrexitblog.blogspot.com/2019/02/brexiters-are-finally-being-forced-to.html

[pgardn]

yeah like i can't wait to watch what the end game is to the social experiment the brits, germs, et al are forcing on their citizens by importing barbaric retards from the ME. burn baby burn is correct!

So then you do give a fck.
They did an experiment you don't like and you want it to go bad.
Brexit was somewhat of a vote against the movement of people so...
But overall it was absolutely stupid from an economic standpoint.
And of course it could cause white religious wars going again on the border so you got that hope as well as the ME thing.
You do confuse people with your stances.

[koriwhat]

So then you do give a fck.
They did an experiment you don't like and you want it to go bad.
Brexit was somewhat of a vote against the movement of people so...
But overall it was absolutely stupid from an economic standpoint.
And of course it could cause white religious wars going again on the border so you got that hope as well as the ME thing.
You do confuse people with your stances.

i suppose so. i guess what i should've said is that i feel no sympathy for all the idiots who capitulate and advocate for their own destruction by the hands of ME scum. as well, they've gone this far and i just want to see their empires topple due to this experiment of theirs. :tu

ps: damnit pgardn, why you always have to be so logical? haha :lol

[pgardn]

i suppose so. i guess what i should've said is that i feel no sympathy for all the idiots who capitulate and advocate for their own destruction by the hands of ME scum. as well, they've gone this far and i just want to see their empires topple due to this experiment of theirs. :tu

ps: damnit pgardn, why you always have to be so logical? haha :lol

Seriously Brexit is not good for the Irish/English problem. Protestants v. Catholics. We dont need this again.
You do realize the IRA played with the ME PLO correct? They still have ties to ME terror tactics. You had Catholics sharing terror tactics with Muslims, how about that...

[koriwhat]

You had Catholics sharing terror tactics with Muslims, how about that...

both rape boys and need reformation.

[pgardn]

both rape boys and need reformation.

You had Protestants booby trapping bars and blowing up other Protestants as well.
So you gotta have something to cover that.

Fck religion as a whole and fck the Irish and English who are agnostic? Fck white people killing each other and fck the potato famine that brought the Irish to America?

[boutons_deux]

pfarten, I don't think we'll see "The Troubles" repeated.

but customs/tariff/immigration friction will hurt the well-being of both the Rep and NI.

Fuck to fucking hell destructionist/retrograde/ Farage/Bannon/Mercer/Pootin/Russians/etc.

[pgardn]

pfarten, I don't think we'll see "The Troubles" repeated.

but customs/tariff/immigration friction will hurt the well-being of both the Rep and NI.

Fuck to fucking hell destructionist/retrograde/ Farage/Bannon/Mercer/Pootin/Russians/etc.

Oh I forgot.

You are the blue version of fck everything as a theme.

pfarten... I like that.

Can we just change our screen name and keep the same account?
pea garden is old and peas can make one gaseous.

[boutons_deux]

https://media-s3-us-east-1.ceros.com/ozy/images/2019/01/31/33a9e42b0b7d331e2a6d0dcd7f8f3521/photo1.jpg?imageOpt=1&fit=bounds&width=1800

https://www.ozy.com/need-to-know/look-closer-the-berlin-wall-thats-really-a-brexit-fake/92324?utm_source=dd&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=02032019&variable=992d608214b505003aa04bf10a595031

[boutons_deux]

EU's Tusk rebuffs May, says Brexiteers deserve a place in hell

The European Union will make no new offer on Brexit and

those who promoted Britain’s exit without any understanding of how to deliver it

deserve a special place in hell,

Council President Donald Tusk said on Wednesday.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu/eus-tusk-rebuffs-may-says-brexiteers-deserve-a-place-in-hell-idUSKCN1PV184?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+reuters%2FtopNews+%28News+%2F +US+%2F+Top+News%29

Sure looks like a hard Brexit, with UK hurting itself more than its hurting EU.

Pootin's operatives

I'd like to know how Pootin compensates US billionaires the Mercers to fuck up UK and US

[boutons_deux]

Britain's Brexit freedom will be heavenly, Nigel Farage tells Tusk

Brexit will be heavenly for the United Kingdom because it will be free from bullies in Europe,

“After Brexit we will be free of unelected, arrogant bullies like you and run our own country,” Farage said of Tusk.

“Sounds more like heaven to me.”

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-tusk-farage/britains-brexit-freedom-will-be-heavenly-nigel-farage-tells-tusk-idUSKCN1PV1FJ?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+reuters%2FtopNews+%28News+%2F +US+%2F+Top+News%29

[boutons_deux]

WHICH CITY IS WINNING THE RACE TO BE EUROPE'S NEXT FINANCE CAPITAL? NONE

A growing list of European cities are battling it out to become the continent’s next big finance hub. Financial institutions are charting their departures from London, unwilling to wait around on the chance that there may be no Brexit deal at all (https://www.ozy.com/fast-forward/why-british-businesses-are-spooked-by-a-no-deal-brexit/91727). And no one city is winning just yet.

In the race are cities from

Frankfurt, Paris and Dublin to Madrid, Milan, Amsterdam and Luxembourg

— cities that long stood in the financial shadow of London.

But even as they jostle for a slice of the industry leaving London, these cities are also

bracing for the fallout from the influx of these financial institutions on their public infrastructure — from housing to schools.

And they’re laying the groundwork for a new reality: London may slip off its pedestal, but

there may be no single city that replaces it.

Frankfurt’s proximity to the European Central Bank gives it an advantage.

Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley and UBS are among the firms collectively

moving $280 billion worth in assets to Frankfurt from London.

Credit Suisse is moving $200 million from its market division from London to Frankfurt.

And that’s just the start.

These banks are among 25 financial institutions moving to the German city,

Bank of America is persuading staff to move to Paris,

while French firms BNP Paribas, Crédit Agricole and Société Générale are together moving around 500 employees back to Paris from London.

In all, Helaba’s survey indicates nine firms are set to move to the French capital.

Over in Dublin, more than 100 Britain-based asset managers and funds have applied to the Irish central bank to authorize their move there.

Barclays is moving $280 billion worth of assets to Dublin.
https://www.ozy.com/fast-forward/which-city-is-winning-the-race-to-be-europes-next-finance-capital-none/91755

This what all y'all's rightwingnutjob UK cousins voted for, right?

And Pootin's is laughing his ass off.

[velik_m]

And Pootin's is laughing his ass off.


Brexit is not Putin's doing.

He didn't run 40 years of anti-EU campaign in British media, he didn't run their government and taking all the credit for any EU benefit and blaming EU for every unpopular decision. He didn't run the British education system whitewashing and celebrating the Empire feeding their sense of delusional exceptionalism. He didn't glorify their "finest hour" to the point that many English actually want to relive it.

Putin may be laughing his ass off, but make no mistake: Brexit is a completely English product.

[FrostKing]

Brexit is not Putin's doing.

He didn't run 40 years of anti-EU campaign in British media, he didn't run their government and taking all the credit for any EU benefit and blaming EU for every unpopular decision. He didn't run the British education system whitewashing and celebrating the Empire feeding their sense of delusional exceptionalism. He didn't glorify their "finest hour" to the point that many English actually want to relive it.

Putin may be laughing his ass off, but make no mistake: Brexit is a completely English product.
Brexit vote occurred after the 2015 Migrant Crisis. That had a more direct influence.

[boutons_deux]

Brexit is not Putin's doing.

He didn't run 40 years of anti-EU campaign in British media, he didn't run their government and taking all the credit for any EU benefit and blaming EU for every unpopular decision. He didn't run the British education system whitewashing and celebrating the Empire feeding their sense of delusional exceptionalism. He didn't glorify their "finest hour" to the point that many English actually want to relive it.

Putin may be laughing his ass off, but make no mistake: Brexit is a completely English product.

bullshit, read my posts in this thread. Bannon, Mercer, Cambridge Analytica, who financed the Leave campaign is still unknown (maybe UK gov knows but keeps it secret).

Certainly the oligarchy's neoliberalism for the oligarchy, and austerity for the non-oligarchy is true for UK as it is for USA.

People on the bottom know that democracy and Capitalism have failed them into financial precarity, no future, so let's blow the shit up, coupled with UK's White Nationalism.

One of the Leave campaign financiers is Russian or is married to a Russian wife, and has investments in Russia.

What you say is true, but you're wrong to exclude Pootin subverting the EU.

Estimates are that UK will take huge hit in national wealth, or at least no growth for years, from Brexit.

[boutons_deux]

Bank of England's Carney spells out no-deal Brexit hit to UK

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-boe-carney/bank-of-englands-carney-spells-out-no-deal-brexit-hit-to-uk-idUSKCN1Q11JO?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+reuters%2FtopNews+%28News+%2F +US+%2F+Top+News%29

[FrostKing]

Wealth comes & goes. National identity does not

[boutons_deux]

JO with latest on Brexit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaBQfSAVt0s

[pgardn]

JO with latest on Brexit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaBQfSAVt0s

The 11 minute mark is classic.
Goes right to the heart of education v. willful ignorance. The idiot who stuck rebar up his ass is basically Chris and Spurter.

One thing Oliver left out that is huge:

Both major parties, Tory and Labor have significant LEAVE factions. So it's very difficult to get any sort of consensus.

Royal fuckup
...that Trumpets should take note of when making decisions concerning trade and foreign relations.

[velik_m]

And that is why the Brexit reckoning must happen. A humbling must come to pass. From the beginning, Brexit created its own momentum. Once the question was asked – in or out? – all the grievances, justified or not, could be projected on it, with “in” being widely seen as a vote for the status quo. Within this frame, nothing else matters – not economic predictions, not warnings about medicines running out, nor threats of the need to stockpile foods. The remain campaign could not have done anything differently: it lost the moment the question was asked.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/feb/18/britain-brexit

https://i.redd.it/hab3k8xwy6h21.png

[CosmicCowboy]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/feb/18/britain-brexit

https://i.redd.it/hab3k8xwy6h21.png

Oh my god!!!! It's Y2K all over again!!!!!!!

[DMX7]

bullshit, read my posts in this thread. Bannon, Mercer, Cambridge Analytica, who financed the Leave campaign is still unknown (maybe UK gov knows but keeps it secret).

Certainly the oligarchy's neoliberalism for the oligarchy, and austerity for the non-oligarchy is true for UK as it is for USA.

People on the bottom know that democracy and Capitalism have failed them into financial precarity, no future, so let's blow the shit up, coupled with UK's White Nationalism.

One of the Leave campaign financiers is Russian or is married to a Russian wife, and has investments in Russia.

What you say is true, but you're wrong to exclude Pootin subverting the EU.

Estimates are that UK will take huge hit in national wealth, or at least no growth for years, from Brexit.



Naturally there will be disruption at first but I think long term that the U.K. will be just fine. Let’s bump this thread five years from now and see which economy is doing better overall - U.K. or E.U..