Start Bertans right now

[Mugen]

Now, turn that around for all of the bitchers pining for Davis, when he's really just a 6'10" no defense playin' version of Forbes.

We're in the top 10 for Ortg, and the bottom 3 for Drtg. How much would Davis really help?

If you're arguing that having Forbes instead of Bertans makes no difference....:lmao

Shit - are you also saying that Forbes plays defense while Bert doesn't? :lmao :lmao

[ceperez]

Among qualified 3pt shooters, the current leaders in 3P%:

1. .516 George Hill
3. .484 Marcus Morris
5. .465 Davis Bertans
21. .422 Aron Baynes
29. .416 Patty Mills
46. .398 Danny Green
68. .378 JaMychal Greene
89. .362 Bryn Forbes

I guess this confirms the original idea of receiving Morris for Bertans. Bummer!

[exstatic]

If you're arguing that having Forbes instead of Bertans makes no difference....:lmao

Shit - are you also saying that Forbes plays defense while Bert doesn't? :lmao :lmao

Reading is fundamental.

[Mugen]

Reading is fundamental.

Ex, nobody Sniffs and toes the company line harder than you. But that might have been your masterpiece :lol

[ChumpDumper]

Now the Spurs organization needs to do a mea culpa and analyze why folks on message boards, that have never been even close to Spurs' practices, have a clearer picture of the capacities of their players (or in this case, ex player) than their HoF coach; so that these mistakes don't repeat themselves in the future.

We are going kinda through the same thing right now with the overplaying of guys like Forbes, Mills and Bellinelli instead of the bigger ceiling guys like White, Murray and Walker.
Really? Analyze message boards?

Meaning you.

:lmao your ego, dude.

It's not going to happen. You're not better than any of them. You're a nobody.

[exstatic]

Ex, nobody Sniffs and toes the company line harder than you. But that might have been your masterpiece :lol

Telling you to re-read my post because you misstated my position is toeing the company line? mmmm okay?

[DAF86]

Really? Analyze message boards?

Meaning you.

:lmao your ego, dude.

It's not going to happen. You're not better than any of them. You're a nobody.

I wasn't the only one advocating for Bertans nor the only one advocating for Murray, White and Walker to start getting more minutes over Forbes, Mills and Bellinelli. I'm not the one that made a thread saying that Forbes as a starter is a failed experiment, tbh.

And if me and other fans are nobodies in Spurs related issues then It's even a sadder look for the Spurs' management and coaches that a bunch of nobodies have a better sense of how some rotations and/or players should be managed, tbh.

[DAF86]

Now, turn that around for all of the bitchers pining for Davis, when he's really just a 6'10" no defense playin' version of Forbes.

We're in the top 10 for Ortg, and the bottom 3 for Drtg. How much would Davis really help?

Forbes doesn't even come close to being the type of player Bertans is, neither on defense nor on offense. Forbes is, at best, a 15 minutes guy. Bertans is a high end, championship level role player. A closer, a top 5 guy.

And this is exactly what all the fuss is about: Pop and the Spurs making a huge judgement mistake and choosing the lesser player over the much better one. It's like if back on the day, the Spurs would have chosen Sean Marks over Robert Horry.

And this is not the first time they make this type of mistake, they have been making these type of mistakes (mistakes that most fans knew were awful decisions from the get go. No hindsight needed) for a while now. The Parker extension, The Mills extension, the Gasol extension, trading for DeRozan, etc, etc, etc. All these decisions have led to this very bad present, tbh.

[DAF86]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EloSGRx2X7E

Imagine comparing this guy to Bryn Forbes.

And again, look how the Wizards get into a deep ass hole to begin halves only to make it a game as soon as Bertans gets into the game. I wonder if Brooks will start consider starting him and playing him 35+ minutes.

[exstatic]

Forbes doesn't even come close to being the type of player Bertans is, neither on defense nor on offense. Forbes is, at best, a 15 minutes guy. Bertans is a high end, championship level role player. A closer, a top 5 guy.

And this is exactly what all the fuss is about: Pop and the Spurs making a huge judgement mistake and choosing the lesser player over the much better one. It's like if back on the day, the Spurs would have chosen Sean Marks over Robert Horry.

And this is not the first time they make this type of mistake, they have been making these type of mistakes (mistakes that most fans knew were awful decisions from the get go. No hindsight needed) for a while now. The Parker extension, The Mills extension, the Gasol extension, trading for DeRozan, etc, etc, etc. All these decisions have led to this very bad present, tbh.

He got played off the floor in the playoffs by Paul Milsap.

[spurraider21]

A 6’1 guy that can shoot 3’s? Dime a dozen. Gary Neal was the same thing too. 6’10 guys that can shoot are something else. A 6’10 guy that can shoot on the move, off screens and pindowns... something entirely different

[spurraider21]

He would be useful but he gone.

Now what?
This is a fan message board.

[DAF86]

He got played off the floor in the playoffs by Pop.

Fixed it for you, tbh.

Bertans was wiped out of the rotation after a couple of games but Bellinelli and Mills could brick their way into a full series. Patty even played the last 15+ minutes of game 7 despite not making a single 3. I'm sure Bertans could have hit at least one if given that much confidence, tbh.

[Mugen]

He got played off the floor in the playoffs by Paul Milsap.

Crofl like Beli and Mills were getting their minutes cut by the old man when they were straight garbage in that series.

[ZeusWillJudge]

If not for Morris, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Because Bertans would be on the bench in SA, and nobody would know that he can play.

[exstatic]

Crofl like Beli and Mills were getting their minutes cut by the old man when they were straight garbage in that series.

Fewer G options than F options at that time.

[DAF86]

If not for Morris, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Because Bertans would be on the bench in SA, and nobody would know that he can play.

I would, tbh.

[DAF86]

Fewer G options than F options at that time.

The fuck? It was exactly the opposite. DeRozan and Belinelli had to play SF because we didn't have enough forwards. :lol

[Mugen]

The fuck? It was exactly the opposite. DeRozan and Belinelli had to play SF because we didn't have enough forwards. :lol

Oh you didn't know? Bertans can't guard the 3 so the genius decided to rely on Derozan/Beli/Patty/Forbes to guard the wings :lol

[exstatic]

The fuck? It was exactly the opposite. DeRozan and Belinelli had to play SF because we didn't have enough forwards. :lol

Derozan was the starting SF all year.

[DAF86]

Derozan was the starting SF all year.

Yeah, because we didn't have enough F options at that time. :lol

[RC_Drunkford]

Imagine Bertans running in transition with the 2nd unit of Murray, Walker, Poeltl. Would fit like a glove. But hey we still have Belinelli

[exstatic]

Yeah, because we didn't have enough F options at that time. :lol

My comment related to your use of the words 'had to' when it was the situation all along.

[DAF86]

My comment related to your use of the words 'had to' when it was the situation all along.

The fact that they played DeRozan and Bellinelli out of position all season long doesn't mean they had more options at F than G, tbh.

Guards: White, Mills, Forbes, DeRozan, Walker, Bellinelli

Forwards: Gay, Bertans, Cunningham, Pondexter.

Now tell me again: Where did we have more and better options?

[ChumpDumper]

I wasn't the only one advocating for Bertans nor the only one advocating for Murray, White and Walker to start getting more minutes over Forbes, Mills and Bellinelli. I'm not the one that made a thread saying that Forbes as a starter is a failed experiment, tbh.

And if me and other fans are nobodies in Spurs related issues then It's even a sadder look for the Spurs' management and coaches that a bunch of nobodies have a better sense of how some rotations and/or players should be managed, tbh.:lol you're not better.

Get over yourself, dude.

[ChumpDumper]

If not for Morris, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Because Bertans would be on the bench in SA, and nobody would know that he can play.The egomaniacs would still be pursuing their alternative reality season, game by game.

[DAF86]

The egomaniacs would still be pursuing their alternative reality season, game by game.

It is no longer alternative reality when everything I said would happen with Bertans, if given a bigger role, is happening, tbh. :lol

[DAF86]

:lol you're not better.

Get over yourself, dude.

Better at what? Realizing Bertans' potential? I think it is proven I was, tbh. :lol

[ChumpDumper]

It is no longer alternative reality when everything I said would happen with Bertans, if given a bigger role, is happening, tbh. :lolOf course it is. You're talking about what would've happened were he on the Spurs.

He gone.

No one on the Spurs cares about you.

Now what?

[ChumpDumper]

Better at what? Realizing Bertans' potential? I think it is proven I was, tbh. :lolYou can't say how he would've been used this season had he stayed.

If you try, it's your alternative reality.

[exstatic]

The fact that they played DeRozan and Bellinelli out of position all season long doesn't mean they had more options at F than G, tbh.

Guards: White, Mills, Forbes, Bellinelli

Forwards: Gay, Bertans, Cunningham, Pondexter, DeRozan.

Now tell me again: Where did we have more and better options?

Forward. Scratch DD (since he's playing SF) and Lonnie (rook) from your available guards list for a realistic look at the lists.

[SpaceCoast Spursfan]

Bertans wasn't the best fit on the Spurs especially after Kawhi quit on the Spurs. It's hard to see a scenario where he would of made a big difference on this squad given Pop's rotations. If Pop made him the backup SF his minutes would be extremely limited behind DDR, maybe Pop would play Beli less with Bertans here which would yield some improvement. Even if Pop decided to play Davis in the SL at SF sliding DDR to the SG & Forbes to the bench, I am not sure the end result is any different. In a vacuum I would take Bertans over Forbes but that lineup would have just as much defensive issues as the current one.

[DAF86]

Forward. Scratch DD (since he's playing SF) and Lonnie (rook) from your available guards list for a realistic look at the lists.

Well then, scratch Bellinelli too, while we're at it, since Bellinelli played SF all season too. How is shitty roster building a good excuse for Pop to play lesser players over better ones? :lol

[TD 21]

:lmao At the apologists. This isn't hindsight; it was obvious this was one of the most offensively impactful role players in the league hiding in plain sight.

The fact that they didn't realize that, is embarrassing. They've now given away a top 5 player in the league and 3 other impactful players (Green, Anderson, Bertans) for 1 (Poeltl) in the past 1.5 years . . . and they wonder why they're in the predicament they're in.

I don't want to hear this "Morris screwed us" excuse either. They could have added a sweetner (Milutinov's rights or 1-2 2nds) to get someone to take Belinelli and if necessary, Metu, instead.

[ChumpDumper]

:lmao At the apologists. This isn't hindsight; it was obvious this was one of the most offensively impactful role players in the league hiding in plain sight.

The fact that they didn't realize that, is embarrassing. They've now given away a top 5 player in the league and 3 other impactful players (Green, Anderson, Bertans) for 1 (Poeltl) in the past 1.5 years . . . and they wonder why they're in the predicament they're in.

I don't want to hear this "Morris screwed us" excuse either. They could have added a sweetner (Milutinov's rights or 1-2 2nds) to get someone to take Belinelli and if necessary, Metu, instead.:lmao another alternative timeline.

[TD 21]

:lmao another alternative timeline.

? Belinelli + Metu equate to Bertans' salary. They effectively choose irrelevant players and minor assets (such as the sweetners I alluded to) over one of the most offensively impactful role players in the league. There's no two ways about it.

[ChumpDumper]

? Belinelli + Metu equate to Bertans' salary. They effectively choose irrelevant players and minor assets (such as the sweetners I alluded to) over one of the most offensively impactful role players in the league. There's no two ways about it.So the Wizards didn't want one of the most offensively impactful role players in the league and would take just anyone?

Pick a lane.

[TD 21]

So the Wizards didn't want one of the most offensively impactful role players in the league and would take just anyone?

Pick a lane.

Who said anything about the Wizards? I'm sure some team with cap space, would have taken Belinelli and if needed, Metu's expirings for multiple 2nds or the rights to Milutinov.

[ChumpDumper]

Who said anything about the Wizards? I'm sure some team with cap space, would have taken Belinelli and if needed, Metu's expirings for multiple 2nds or the rights to Milutinov.So yet another alternative timeline.

:lol

[TD 21]

So yet another alternative timeline.

:lol

Nah, same timeline. It just would have required something this organization has become adverse to in recent years: Common sense.

Damn near any other organization pulls what they have in that timeframe, they're getting massacred by the media.

[Maddog]

In retrospect it was a bad move.
However at the time ( this summer) Bertans for Morris looked like a smart move. Yes, I know it wasn't a straight trade, but essentially was.
I'm really happy for Davis, but keep in mind during this stretch his team is 1-6.

[ChumpDumper]

Nah, same timeline.Did it happen?

No.

Alternative timeline.

:lmao caring about the media

[TD 21]

Did it happen?

No.

Alternative timeline.

:lmao caring about the media

Sound logic.

:lmao At trying to veer off topic because you know you don't have a leg to stand on.

[ChumpDumper]

Sound logic.

:lmao At trying to veer off topic because you know you don't have a leg to stand on.What's the topic now?

Multiple alternative timelines where Bertans is a Spur.

[ZeusWillJudge]

Nah, same timeline. It just would have required something this organization has become adverse to in recent years: Common sense.

Damn near any other organization pulls what they have in that timeframe, they're getting massacred by the media.


LMAO at some of you letting Chump get your panties all twisted. The correct response is:


Alternative timeline? No shit. There's the box score and game recaps. Everything else is speculation and second guessing. It's what this whole site is built around.


Chump loves fucking with people. Really loves it. But the point is still valid. Losing Bertans was unfortunate, but there's only so much that can be said about it. Nobody knows if he would have shot this well here - maybe being traded lit a fire under his ass.

People kept Scola threads going here for years. He played well in Houston. But during his time there, they went out in the first round, then the second round, then didn't even make the playoffs in the last 3 years he was there. Bertans being here wouldn't have transformed this team into a contender or anything close. But that's also an alternative timeline, isn't it? :lol

[ChumpDumper]

It's fun to speculate how much Bertans would've helped.

Just as much fun as how much Morris would've helped.

But what does one get for it?

[spurraider21]

It's fun to speculate how much Bertans would've helped.

Just as much fun as how much Morris would've helped.

But what does one get for it?
question answered

[ChumpDumper]

question answeredOne gets fun?

Maybe the first time.

[spurraider21]

One gets fun?

Maybe the first time.
you: It's fun to speculate

also you: what do you get you get out of speculating?

me: you have fun

you: one gets fun?

its fun. we do it all the time here, part of the reason we enjoy sports message boards. its fun to speculate hypotheticals. otherwise we can just read game recaps and call it a day. its fun to play armchair gm.

[DAF86]

question answered

Chump set himself up. :lol

[DAF86]

you: It's fun to speculate

also you: what do you get you get out of speculating?

me: you have fun

you: one gets fun?

its fun. we do it all the time here, part of the reason we enjoy sports message boards. its fun to speculate hypotheticals. otherwise we can just read game recaps and call it a day. its fun to play armchair gm.

Uh oh. Prepare to get sucked into the "Chumpzone".

[Sugus]

Bertans wasn't the best fit on the Spurs especially after Kawhi quit on the Spurs. It's hard to see a scenario where he would of made a big difference on this squad given Pop's rotations. If Pop made him the backup SF his minutes would be extremely limited behind DDR, maybe Pop would play Beli less with Bertans here which would yield some improvement. Even if Pop decided to play Davis in the SL at SF sliding DDR to the SG & Forbes to the bench, I am not sure the end result is any different. In a vacuum I would take Bertans over Forbes but that lineup would have just as much defensive issues as the current one.

Spot on. Davis at SF and DD at SG over DD at SF and Forbes at SG is just a variation of two bad defenders on two positions. Marcus Morris would provide defense to the lineup, which to the current Spurs would be much more valuable than Bertans' offense without defense, but he fucked us over. Can we stop making threads about this?

[spurraider21]

spurs were near the bottom on 3PA last season and they had access to a guy like bertans :lol... they didnt use him well when they had him either

[ZeusWillJudge]

Uh oh. Prepare to get sucked into the "Chumpzone".


Pretty much. I can say I tried. :lol

Here's an alternative timeline, straight off the NBA website tonight: "
Had free agency played out differently, Leonard might still be delighting Raptors fans as they go about defending their 2019 NBA championship."

[ChumpDumper]

you: It's fun to speculate

also you: what do you get you get out of speculating?

me: you have fun

you: one gets fun?

its fun. we do it all the time here, part of the reason we enjoy sports message boards. its fun to speculate hypotheticals. otherwise we can just read game recaps and call it a day. its fun to play armchair gm.Right, but for one guy in the middle of the season to the exclusion of almost everything else is not much.

[spurraider21]

Right, but for one guy in the middle of the season to the exclusion of almost everything else is not much.
spurs havent played for several days and bertans has 6 straight games of 19+ points

[ChumpDumper]

spurs havent played for several days and bertans has 6 straight games of 19+ pointsWe'll see what happens after.

[RC_Drunkford]

nobody seems to bring up the fact that the Spurs actually traded Bertans for Carroll who's glued to the bench and can't even get rotation minutes while earning the same amount of salary :lol
I know they made that move to sign Morris, but they could've just not signed Carroll at all and that move wouldn't have to be made

[slick'81]

nobody seems to bring up the fact that the Spurs actually traded Bertans for Carroll who's glued to the bench and can't even get rotation minutes while earning the same amount of salary :lol
I know they made that move to sign Morris, but they could've just not signed Carroll at all and that move wouldn't have to be made


Def hurts more when you put it that way.Spurs have been snake bitten (mostly their own fault) in fa and trades recently

[UZER]

nobody seems to bring up the fact that the Spurs actually traded Bertans for Carroll who's glued to the bench and can't even get rotation minutes while earning the same amount of salary :lol
I know they made that move to sign Morris, but they could've just not signed Carroll at all and that move wouldn't have to be made

Nobody knows wtf Pop is doing or trying to do right, not even Pop.

[D-Robinson 50 fan]

Bertans shot damn near as well last season for our guys. The biggest difference for him in Washington is more minutes and shot attempts. He was utilized similar in San Antonio than how he is being utilized in Washington but the Wizards don’t really care about his defensive short comings.

People on here most likely wouldn’t be complaining as much if Morris came to this team like he said he would because he is also shooting great right now and he is a better defender and rebounder.

it sucks our guys didn’t get Morris and lost Dāvis for nothing but it is what it is.

[exstatic]

nobody seems to bring up the fact that the Spurs actually traded Bertans for Carroll who's glued to the bench and can't even get rotation minutes while earning the same amount of salary :lol
I know they made that move to sign Morris, but they could've just not signed Carroll at all and that move wouldn't have to be made

Bad premise. You go after the big fish, FIRST, and that was Morris. Getting Morris required offloading Bertans. I'm not sure how many times we need to go over this, but Morris fucked us, not PATFO.

[JeffDuncan]

Bad premise. You go after the big fish, FIRST, and that was Morris. Getting Morris required offloading Bertans. ...

That is not correct. The offer to Morris required finding $10 million per year for two years. Morris was not demanding that Bertans had to leave. He was interested in the money, is all.

It was PATFO who screwed up, by creating a roster so wonky, and a financial situation so wonky, that moving Bertans was the only way they could find to come up with $10 mil. A well run organization would have had other options.

[exstatic]

That is not correct. The offer to Morris required finding $10 million per year for two years. Morris was not demanding that Bertans had to leave. He was interested in the money, is all.

It was PATFO who screwed up, by creating a roster so wonky, and a financial situation so wonky, that moving Bertans was the only way they could find to come up with $10 mil. A well run organization would have had other options.

Oh please. The Spurs run one of the cleanest, most short term cap sheets in the league. Having to offload a $5M salary to sign a very good FA is NOTHING in today's NBA. That's like 4% of the cap.

[spurraider21]

Bad premise. You go after the big fish, FIRST, and that was Morris. Getting Morris required offloading Bertans. I'm not sure how many times we need to go over this, but Morris fucked us, not PATFO.
you're right. we had to go after the big fish FIRST.

which apparently was demarre carroll, a guy who can't crack the rotation :lmao

it was only because we had committed to carroll that part of the MLE had been used, which is why we were into a position where we had to make a move to try to get morris. so we unloaded bertans. had we not bid against ourselves for a player that cant get on the floor, we could have just given the full MLE to morris in the first place without having to make a corresponding move

:lmao "big fish carroll"

[pad300]

Forbes doesn't even come close to being the type of player Bertans is, neither on defense nor on offense. Forbes is, at best, a 15 minutes guy. Bertans is a high end, championship level role player. A closer, a top 5 guy.

And this is exactly what all the fuss is about: Pop and the Spurs making a huge judgement mistake and choosing the lesser player over the much better one. It's like if back on the day, the Spurs would have chosen Sean Marks over Robert Horry.

And this is not the first time they make this type of mistake, they have been making these type of mistakes (mistakes that most fans knew were awful decisions from the get go. No hindsight needed) for a while now. The Parker extension, The Mills extension, the Gasol extension, trading for DeRozan, etc, etc, etc. All these decisions have led to this very bad present, tbh.

Man, so many of these alternate timelines are just premised in bullshit. There are 2 (or more) parties in a trade - they all have to be satisfied for it to go through. So yeah, Washington, or whoever, is going to want something valuable for renting their capspace - not Belinelli's old ass. And Forbes's contract is simply not big enough to matter in this case - trading him would not have bought SAS the cap space they needed.



nobody seems to bring up the fact that the Spurs actually traded Bertans for Carroll who's glued to the bench and can't even get rotation minutes while earning the same amount of salary :lol
I know they made that move to sign Morris, but they could've just not signed Carroll at all and that move wouldn't have to be made

This is untrue. The spurs had already agreed to a deal with Carroll when the opportunity to sign Morris came up (after he came up blank on the larger contract he was hoping for). The PATFO needed the capspace to re-open their negotiations with Carroll (and offer him a different and slightly better contract for his trouble), so they could spend the full MLE on Morris... Unless they were willing to do to Carroll what Marcus did to them... Which presumably they weren't.

[spurraider21]

Man, so many of these alternate timelines are just premised in bullshit. There are 2 (or more) parties in a trade - they all have to be satisfied for it to go through. So yeah, Washington, or whoever, is going to want something valuable for renting their capspace - not Belinelli's old ass. And Forbes's contract is simply not big enough to matter in this case - trading him would not have bought SAS the cap space they needed.


This is untrue. The spurs had already agreed to a deal with Carroll when the opportunity to sign Morris came up (after he came up blank on the larger contract he was hoping for). The PATFO needed the capspace to re-open their negotiations with Carroll (and offer him a different and slightly better contract for his trouble), so they could spend the full MLE on Morris... Unless they were willing to do to Carroll what Marcus did to them... Which presumably they weren't.
yup.

carroll originally had agreed to a 2 year deal where the funds would come out of the MLE

when the spurs realized that morris could be had for the full MLE, they didn't want to reneg on Carroll, so they instead decided to turn his acquisition from a MLE signing to a sign-and-trade. the only problem is, a sign and trade requires the deal to be at least 3 years, whereas carroll's previous agreement was 2 years. so they gave him a partially guaranteed 3rd year.

the issue this creates is why the spurs jumped the gun to strike an agreement with carroll which occupied the MLE before exhausting all other options for the MLE, like a marcus morris. that looks especially bad given that carroll isnt even in the rotation. means they didnt properly vet him.

RC Drunkford, iirc, has also raised that instead of trading bertans to facilitate the carroll sign and trade, they could have packaged a pick with marco for a similar salary