Aldridge ball is not winning ball

[DAF86]

I love the effort he's putting up out there, and I love even more the nifty high-low game he has developed with Gasol, but posting up 30/40 times a game isn't the recipe for winning anymore. Specially not when your postup player loves to takes fadeaway jumpers most of the time and is bad at passing off double teams.

And I'm saying it now that he's playing well. I don't even want to imagine how it will be if he goes back to sucking.

[bklynspursfan]

It's enough to keep us afloat for now. If our shooters are hitting their 3s it obviously opens up things so much and gives us other options. But at this point it is what it is

[TheGreatYacht]

Like it or not this is the best option available at the moment.

I most certainly wouldn't want to see an increased amount of Murray 12ft floaters, Green drives, Fathead whatever he does, or Gasol postups.

This is a lottery team without his 23 a night.

[BatManu20]

Our best player right now, but pretty obvious that we’re not winning anything with him as our #1 option (goes without saying). Just need a healthy Kawhi back.

Also, it wouldn’t be as noticeable if certain guys (danny, Patty, etc) we’re hitting more of their open looks.

[Chinook]

It's winning ball.

[Play Boban]

Did we win or lose?

[TheGreatYacht]

OP wants Bertans to start btw iirc tbh

[DAF86]

OP wants Bertans to start btw iirc tbh

Not in favour of Aldridge, tbh.

[DAF86]

Did we win or lose?

Tonight we won and with a great performance from the guy, that's one of the main reasons why I decided to make the thread tonight: to don't get called an opportunistic cliff jumper making a rage thread.

Tonight we won, but we won't win when it matters feeding him the ball 40 times a game.

[phxspurfan]

Tonight we won and with a great performance from the guy, that's one of the main reasons why I decided to make the thread tonight: to don't get called an opportunistic cliff jumper making a rage thread.

Tonight we won, but we won't win when it matters feeding him the ball 40 times a game.

youre going to be real sad watching our playoff games.

[DAF86]

youre going to be real sad watching our playoff games.

I would say more angry than sad, but yeah.

[Play Boban]

Tonight we won and with a great performance from the guy, that's one of the main reasons why I decided to make the thread tonight: to don't get called an opportunistic cliff jumper making a rage thread.

Tonight we won, but we won't win when it matters feeding him the ball 40 times a game.
All I care about is the W.

[Pavlov]

Tonight we won and with a great performance from the guy, that's one of the main reasons why I decided to make the thread tonight: to don't get called an opportunistic cliff jumper making a rage thread.Well you can rage bump next time he plays badly.

[Robz4000]

Agreed.

[BatManu20]

Right on cue.

958534467605299201

[Hoops Czar]

Third in the west bitches!

[sasaint]

I agree with OP. I don't like 7-footers relying heavily on turnaround fadeaways. I especially don't think having an offense that is built around two isolation players is a winner. That said, LMA hustled hard tonight. I did like the effort - especially on the boards and in transition. He ran the floor. He also made one of the better passes (to Manu) that I ever saw him make. But I'd like to see the Spurs move him in the offseason if they can get good value.

[DAF86]

Who is Tim Miller, tbh? :lol

[tbdog]

64% win rate isn't winning ball? Okay.

[NASpurs]

64% win rate isn't winning ball? Okay.

Come back in the playoffs. 23 shots to get 30 points while attempting 2 fts will bite you in the ass.

[K...]

Who is Tim Miller, tbh? :lol

jeb's bush slave boy

[DAF86]

64% win rate isn't winning ball? Okay.

I'm talking about championship level winning basketball. The kind of winning basketball we Spurs fans are accostumed to.

[Pavlov]

So the Spurs aren't as good without Leonard as they are with him.

Hot take.

[Keepin' it real]

I would say more angry than sad, but yeah.

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/f7/d7/19/f7d71936a691a14865a6371e78d46a68--movie-quotes-quotes-quotes.jpg

[DAF86]

So the Spurs aren't as good without Leonard as they are with him.

Hot take.

Thread has nothing to do with Leonard, tbh. It's just a comment about Aldridge's game and how it fits in today's NBA.

[Pavlov]

Thread has nothing to do with Leonard, tbh. It's just a comment about Aldridge's game and how it fits in today's NBA.The only way he plays in the playoffs like he does now is if he isn't playing with Leonard. I think his defense is pretty underrated because people play too much attention to his offense these days.

[Keepin' it real]

All I care about is the W.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/23/74/8b/23748bd953266653b35a61bb8ed005e8.jpg

[sasaint]

The only way he plays in the playoffs like he does now is if he isn't playing with Leonard.

Yep.

[DAF86]

The only way he plays in the playoffs like he does now is if he isn't playing with Leonard.

Will he still be able to give us 20 without needing to have the ball on his hands so much? If not, is he really worthy as a second option?

[Pavlov]

Will he still be able to give us 20 without needing to have the ball on his hands so much? If not, is he really worthy as a second option?He won't have to have the hands in so much since the offense won't have to go through him every play.

"Worthy."

I guess you'll have to start up the trade machine to get rid of him as soon as possible. You don't seem to think there is any way to win with him in the lineup.

[DAF86]

He won't have to have the hands in so much since the offense won't have to go through him every play.

"Worthy."

I guess you'll have to start up the trade machine to get rid of him as soon as possible. You don't seem to think there is any way to win with him in the lineup.

I do see a way of winning with him on the lineup, but I doubt Aldridge would be cool with reducing his postups touches and focusing his offense more on those plays where he gets deep position under the basket, pick and rolls and pick and pops.

His defense has always been a plus since he got here. No complaints there.

[DPG21920]

Dude, they got to the WCF with him last year, wth? You are really undervaluing his defense too with regards to winning.

[Pavlov]

I do see a way of winning with him on the lineup, but I doubt Aldridge would be cool with reducing his postups touches and focusing his offense more on those plays where he gets deep position under the basket, pick and rolls and pick and pops.Murray's shooting is going to be the biggest weakness in the SL offense IMO. Good defenses are going to be able to play way off him.

[DAF86]

Dude, they got to the WCF with him last year, wth? You are really undervaluing his defense too with regards to winning.

With him barely being involved in the offense, tbh. And before you bring game 6 of the Rockets series, with the way Harden played that game we were never going to lose that game.

And regarding his defense, just above you:


His defense has always been a plus since he got here. No complaints there.

[DAF86]

Murray's shooting is going to be the biggest weakness in the SL offense IMO. Good defenses are going to be able to play way off him.

Murray isn't getting paid the most money on the team, tbh. If he doesn' t perform, you can bench him in favour of some other guys.

[DPG21920]

With him barely being involved in the offense, tbh. And before you bring game 6 of the Rockets series, with the way Harden played that game we were never going to lose that game.

And regarding his defense, just above you:

Then what are you trying to say? We know he’s way more involved on offense since Kawhi/rudy are out. When Kawhi is healthy, like last year, LMA is good enough to help get to a WCF>

[cjw]

OP should stop while he’s behind, unless he’s trying to tank the thread for the #1 pick

[DAF86]

Then what are you trying to say? We know he’s way more involved on offense since Kawhi/rudy are out. When Kawhi is healthy, like last year, LMA is good enough to help get to a WCF>

What I'm saying is that no team will ever win a championship with Aldridge as a top option (that means getting around 30-40 touches per game). His style just doesn't match the current style needed in the NBA right now to win a championship.

[DAF86]

OP should stop while he’s behind, unless he’s trying to tank the thread for the #1 pick

Can I re-start once the playoffs begin and I'm proven right?

[Pavlov]

Murray isn't getting paid the most money on the team, tbh. If he doesn' t perform, you can bench him in favour of some other guys.Now it's a money thing?

Just write trade scenarios then. Get rid of him now.

[Pavlov]

Can I re-start once the playoffs begin and I'm proven right?Rage bump.

[DAF86]

Rage bump.

Of a thread made with all the thought and analysis that a cold head can provide.

[Pavlov]

Of a thread made with all the thought and analysis that a cold head can provide.Will still be a rage bump. You just made a reservation for rage.

[DAF86]

Now it's a money thing?

Just write trade scenarios then. Get rid of him now.

Unfortunately the Spurs need Aldridge right now. There isn't a trade that would help the Spurs get anything close to equal value.

The best scenario would be for Aldridge to adapt his game like Duncan did in his latter years, but that's a pipe dream.

[DAF86]

And I wouldn't be so sure that Aldridge's touches will decrease too much once/if Kawhi gets back, tbh.

[Pavlov]

OK, Aldridge will make the entire team fail and nothing else will unless Aldridge becomes just like the greatest PF of all time.

[TheDoctor]

OK, Aldridge will make the entire team fail and nothing else will unless Aldridge becomes just like the greatest PF of all time.
Still miss him :cry

[tbdog]

I'm talking about championship level winning basketball. The kind of winning basketball we Spurs fans are accostumed to.

It's winning basketball if Durant didn't go down the 'hard road.'

[DAF86]

OK, Aldridge will make the entire team fail and nothing else will unless Aldridge becomes just like the greatest PF of all time.

Let's see. If the Spurs do great in the playoffs with Aldridge postup after Aldridge postup and the numbers reflect it, I will gladly eat crow.

The Spurs don't even have to win too much. The numbers just need to show that going to Aldridge in the post is an effective winning strategy.

[Pavlov]

Let's see. If the Spurs do great in the playoffs with Aldridge postup after Aldridge postup and the numbers reflect it, I will gladly eat crow.

The Spurs don't even have to win too much. The numbers just need to show that going to Aldridge in the post is an effective winning strategy.You've really forgotten that Leonard is on this team, haven't you?

[DAF86]

It's winning basketball if Durant didn't go down the 'hard road.'

Maybe if Kawhiachel didn't go out and Aldridge remained a luxury role player that didn't get the ball on the post all that much. But I still don't think it would have been enough.

[marinoman]

It’s not his fault our backcourt is garbage.

in fact to call our guards garbage is an insult to garbage. 87 year old manu is our best guard

[DAF86]

You've really forgotten that Leonard is on this team, haven't you?

Even with Leonard on the team, if LA remains getting around 30 touches on the post, which I think will be the case, we won't beat the teams we need to beat.

[Pavlov]

Even with Leonard on the team, if LA remains getting around 30 touches on the post, which I think will be the case, we won't beat the teams we need to beat.Great.

Season over.

Turn out the lights.

Nothing else will possibly matter.

[weeks]

LMA is doing everything he possibly can to keep this team afloat
He has us at 3 in the West without our MVP caliber star
He gets deep post position all the time, our guards mostly suck ass at getting him the ball in good position and miss opportunities to get him good looks way too often

[DAF86]

Great.

Season over.

Turn out the lights.

I don't know about you, but I can still enjoy the season without having barely any hope of winning the championship, tbh.

[Pavlov]

I don't know about you, but I can still enjoy the season without having barely any hope of winning the championship, tbh.Sounds like you'll get maximum enjoyment with the Spurs' losing the way you think they will tbh.

[DAF86]

LMA is doing everything he possibly can to keep this team afloat
He has us at 3 in the West without our MVP caliber star
He gets deep post position all the time, our guards mostly suck ass at getting him the ball in good position and miss opportunities to get him good looks way too often

I agree with everything you say but that doesn't refute the point made in the OP, tbh.

[DAF86]

Sounds like you'll get maximum enjoyment with the Spurs' losing the way you think they will tbh.

Nah, I much prefer to see the Spurs winning.

[Pavlov]

Nah, I much prefer to see the Spurs winning.We'll see the next time Aldridge has a bad game.

Something tells me you'll be all over it.

[DAF86]

We'll see the next time Aldridge has a bad game.

Something tells me you'll be all over it.

I don't normally post when the Spurs lose, tbh.

[Pavlov]

I don't normally post when the Spurs lose, tbh.It doesn't have to be the day of the performance, and the Spurs don't even have to lose.

[Arcadian]

What does your best player do best? Do that a lot.

That's all you can do. It's not complicated.

[DAF86]

What does your best player do best? Do that a lot.

That's all you can do. It's not complicated.

Aldridge is way more effective when he gets the ball after working for position down low and on spot ups than in post ups.

[Chinook]

LMA isn't Capela. Clint hasn't taken his teams anywhere. It's sort of silly to even see this thread.

[DAF86]

Aldridge offensive numbers:

Post ups: frequency 42% - 44 FG% - 0.95 ppp
Pick and roll man: frequency 17% - 48 FG% - 1.02 ppp
Cuts: Frequency 7% - 61 FG% - 1.27 ppp
Spot ups: Frequency 9% - 42 FG% - 1.04 PPP

So, Aldridge does (way) more what he does least efficiently. But it's not his fault, the postup in general just isn't efficient.

[SAGirl]

You need better guards, more dynamic play if you want to complain about the offense looking the way it does and if you want it to generate different shots.

[Dex]

Spurs still have like a 70% winning percentage in the years that Aldridge has been here, even though he has "underachieved".

[SAGirl]

Spurs still have like a 70% winning percentage in the years that Aldridge has been here, even though he has "underachieved".
True.

[DAF86]

LMA isn't Capela. Clint hasn't taken his teams anywhere. It's sort of silly to even see this thread.

Unfortunately those are the type of bigmen that are more efficient for an NBA team these days. The ones that play D, run the floor, set picks and don't ask for the ball on the post. It is what it is.

Nobody is saying Capella is a better player than Aldridge. Aldridge is way more talented and can hurt you in many different ways. I just hope he would understand that in today's NBA he can't be posting up 42% of the time.

If he would be OK with varying his offense a little more (bring down that post up frequency to about 25/30 % and once you post up try to go for strong, quick, decisive moves instead of so many fadeaways; try to play more pick and rolls and pick and pops; look for even more chances to get a high low action, run the floor and establish position as deep as you can and if you don't, be cool with being patient and don't ask for the ball on a post up situation 18 feet from the basket, etc.), he would be a lot more efficient and useful.

[cjw]

You need better guards, more dynamic play if you want to complain about the offense looking the way it does and if you want it to generate different shots.

OP doesn’t realize cuts and spot ups require, you know, competent guards to get him the ball in those spots? And by definition they’ll be higher probability shots if you can create them

[DAF86]

OP doesn’t realize cuts and spot ups require, you know, competent guards to get him the ball in those spots? And by definition they’ll be higher probability shots if you can create them

When Aldridge started bitching about touches we were coming off a playoffs run where Kawhi was playing like the best player in the World averaging around 5 APG and Tony looking like his old self. I'm sure he wasn't crying about cuts and spot ups looks there. He was crying about post ups.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Dude, they got to the WCF with him last year, wth? You are really undervaluing his defense too with regards to winning.

He was mediocre more times than not in the playoffs. Kawhi was epic. Aldridge was pitiful after Kawhi got injured in the playoffs and he had no pressure but failed to do anything positive in the warriors series.

[duncan2k5]

Open right... Let's not pretend we don't have a huge sample size of him in the playoffs...

[tbdog]

He was mediocre more times than not in the playoffs. Kawhi was epic. Aldridge was pitiful after Kawhi got injured in the playoffs and he had no pressure but failed to do anything positive in the warriors series.

The whole team bar Kyle and Simmons were pitiful. The spurs gave up. No starting PG. No best player. No first big off the bench in Lee. It was climbing up Mt Everest while having a cold. You will die.

[weeks]

I agree with the general premise that less post ups are desirable. I wonder how much of that is pop being lazy.
LMA style of play is what it is and it's pretty much outdated, definitely. He's as good as anyone at doing what he knows. He was the best option we had and he chose our team when most all star free agents can't run away fast enough. He ain't Duncan and he obviously has diva qualities but he stays earning that money.
I guess what I'm saying is, you're probably right and it sucks but if kawhi comes back in good form we still got a punchers chance. It's not LMAs fault he isn't Duncan and it's not his fault KD is a weak little bitch.
I think he's shamefully underrated around the league and unappreciated by SA fans spoiled by the GOAT

[Stabula]

So the Spurs aren't as good without Leonard as they are with him.

Hot take.

/thread

[Stabula]

Unfortunately those are the type of bigmen that are more efficient for an NBA team these days. The ones that play D, run the floor, set picks and don't ask for the ball on the post. It is what it is.

Nobody is saying Capella is a better player than Aldridge. Aldridge is way more talented and can hurt you in many different ways. I just hope he would understand that in today's NBA he can't be posting up 42% of the time.

If he would be OK with varying his offense a little more (bring down that post up frequency to about 25/30 % and once you post up try to go for strong, quick, decisive moves instead of so many fadeaways; try to play more pick and rolls and pick and pops; look for even more chances to get a high low action, run the floor and establish position as deep as you can and if you don't, be cool with being patient and don't ask for the ball on a post up situation 18 feet from the basket, etc.), he would be a lot more efficient and useful.

Post-up game is a sight for sore eyes for those who like old-school ball. It's an efficient game and I'd much rather Aldridge dance in the post than take long contested two-pointers. He has a good variance of post-up, drives, and pick n' pop shots. He's doing good, it's just that we're missing Kawhi and Rudy and our shooters aren't hitting open shots.

[AFMadison]

Posted this the first year we had Aldridge tbh, some people just now realizing

[r0drig0lac]

op is correct, against the league elite, with or without Kawhi this kind of offensive plan does not work, but in the regular season...

[NameLess Scrub]

OP is bringing reasonable points. He's just being trolled too much this time around.

[Slippy]

So the Spurs aren't as good without Leonard as they are with him.

Hot take.

:lol this

[weeks]

So let me get this straight, you guys think with Timmy about to retire we shouldn't have gone after LMA? Is that the agreement, it was a mistake to sign him?

[sasaint]

So let me get this straight, you guys think with Timmy about to retire we shouldn't have gone after LMA? Is that the agreement, it was a mistake to sign him?

Yes. Some posters didn't really like his game back then. And some also were concerned about his reputation as a diva.

I wanted to invest that money in LMA's teammate, Robin Lopez, and a second starer/rotation caliber player

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Yes. Some posters didn't really like his game back then. And some also were concerned about his reputation as a diva.

I wanted to invest that money in LMA's teammate, Robin Lopez, and a second starer/rotation caliber player

This is sarcasm right? Just without the blue font?

[sasaint]

This is sarcasm right? Just without the blue font?

No.

[illusioNtEk]

Did we win or lose?

[TXstbobcat]

Not going to complain about LMA who has carried the team to the 3 seed 2 games above the wolves with all of the injuries the team has had.

[NASpurs]

Not going to complain about LMA who has carried the team to the 3 seed 2 games above the wolves with all of the injuries the team has had.

I agree, he's a nice regular season player.

[Seventyniner]

With him barely being involved in the offense, tbh. And before you bring game 6 of the Rockets series, with the way Harden played that game we were never going to lose that game.

And regarding his defense, just above you:

He was second on the team in usage. In what world is that "barely involved"?

[coachmac87]

This thread is dumb....

[DAF86]

Post-up game is a sight for sore eyes for those who like old-school ball. It's an efficient game and I'd much rather Aldridge dance in the post than take long contested two-pointers. He has a good variance of post-up, drives, and pick n' pop shots. He's doing good, it's just that we're missing Kawhi and Rudy and our shooters aren't hitting open shots.

Well, stats contradict your opinion.

[DAF86]

He was second on the team in usage. In what world is that "barely involved"?

I think it's obvious Aldridge was going to be second in usage. Who else if not him?

I'm saying that he wasn't a 1b to Kawhi's 1a like it will probably be this year. Last year LA was a second option more on the mold of Tony in 2003 behind Duncan.

[Proxy]

complaining about the personnel of a team that has no business being 3rd seed with all the injuries, and wanting Robin Lopez instead of LMA in hindsight. The moment brought to you by ST

[TXstbobcat]

complaining about the personnel of a team that has no business being 3rd seed with all the injuries, and wanting Robin Lopez instead of LMA in hindsight. The moment brought to you by ST

Spurs fans are so damn spoiled.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

complaining about the personnel of a team that has no business being 3rd seed with all the injuries, and wanting Robin Lopez instead of LMA in hindsight. The moment brought to you by ST

We’ve had an extremely easy schedule

[SAGirl]

If he was a better passer there is a lot he could do out of the post beside the turnaround jumpshot. Problem is that he's not an intuitive passer and with his "inefficiency" you add the lack of creation for others and the TO (6 last game and in the playoffs it was bad too when he they loaded up on him and played passing lanes)...

Team needs some dynamism which they will only get with Kiwi and Rudy back... Ideally they need Dejounte to take a leap but he really started the season very raw, and has been improving... however offensively he's undeveloped and will take time.

I can't criticize Lamarcus though, he has been having a great season and if not for that, there is no way the Spurs are still in the playoff hunt. :wakeup

[Proxy]

We’ve had an extremely easy schedule

any of those indexes account for injuries?

people complaining about the Sixers game and the team playing like shit at home, only to realize SA has the best home record in the league

[Blake]

Lol this thread.

[spurraider21]

yeah, i cant believe the spurs didn't think to have a second MVP-caliber superstar on their team in case kawhi got hurt. Pop never thinks ahead, what an idiot

when our first option is out, we're stuck with a... second option? what a trash team! that's why the warriors are so smart. they have curry AND durant! pop should take notes

[Seventyniner]

I think it's obvious Aldridge was going to be second in usage. Who else if not him?

I'm saying that he wasn't a 1b to Kawhi's 1a like it will probably be this year. Last year LA was a second option more on the mold of Tony in 2003 behind Duncan.

So what's your problem with Aldridge being the #1 option while Kawhi is hurt? It's basically by default.

[DAF86]

Are folks here really such butthurt homers that can't understand what I'm trying to say? :lol

[DAF86]

yeah, i cant believe the spurs didn't think to have a second MVP-caliber superstar on their team in case kawhi got hurt. Pop never thinks ahead, what an idiot

when our first option is out, we're stuck with a... second option? what a trash team! that's why the warriors are so smart. they have curry AND durant! pop should take notes

You don't need an MVP caliber superstar, you just need a player whose game is more effective than a post-up, fadeaway, midrange heavy player.

[TimDunkem]

Are folks here really such butthurt homers that can't understand what I'm trying to say? :lol
An antiquated offense that will never outscore the best teams even with Kawhi is a tough pill to swallow for all the slurpers.

[r0drig0lac]

Are folks here really such butthurt homers that can't understand what I'm trying to say? :lol

unbelievable

[DPG21920]

Dude. It's not that people don't understand. It's that with LMA clearly being the second best player SA reached the WCF. I mean, it's just silly when you sit back and listen to your premise when we literally have proof that LMA as the second best player helped the team do the EXACT OPPOSITE of what you are saying.

Then on top of that to make up some random scenario that without Kawhi or a rusty Kawhi LMA won't be able to step up enough. Like duh

[r0drig0lac]

An antiquated offense that will never outscore the best teams even with Kawhi is a tough pill to swallow for all the slurpers.

this, criticism is how to play, not to the player, by answers it seems that no one understood, the best Aldridge for SAS, would be the Aldridge "elite role player" defense, low post, pnp, pnr, but he probably thinks He is very good for this.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

You don't need an MVP caliber superstar, you just need a player whose game is more effective than a post-up, fadeaway, midrange heavy player.

OK, but for what purpose? For competing with the Warriors?

[DAF86]

Dude. It's not that people don't understand. It's that with LMA clearly being the second best player SA reached the WCF. I mean, it's just silly when you sit back and listen to your premise when we literally have proof that LMA as the second best player helped the team do the EXACT OPPOSITE of what you are saying.

Then on top of that to make up some random scenario that without Kawhi or a rusty Kawhi LMA won't be able to step up enough. Like duh

Oh yeah? I must have missed the time when the Spurs won the championship with Aldridge as its second best player. Or even the time where Aldridge didn't end a playoff run in a sour note.

[DAF86]

this, criticism is how to play, not to the player, by answers it seems that no one understood, the best Aldridge for SAS, would be the Aldridge "elite role player" defense, low post, pnp, pnr, but he probably thinks He is very good for this.

Thank you son.

[DAF86]

OK, but for what purpose? For competing with the Warriors?

That right now is the same as saying competing for the championship, so yeah.

[Pavlov]

Oh yeah? I must have missed the time when the Spurs won the championship with Aldridge as its second best player. Or even the time where Aldridge didn't end a playoff run in a sour note.Yep, Aldridge injured both Leonard and Parker last season.

THAT SOUR SONOFABITCH

[spurraider21]

You don't need an MVP caliber superstar, you just need a player whose game is more effective than a post-up, fadeaway, midrange heavy player.
so what player would have been a better second option for us than LMA, that we could have obtained

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

That right now is the same as saying competing for the championship, so yeah.

Completely disagree that another all-star, who's not MVP-caliber player, in place of Aldridge would be enough to close the enormous talent gap between the Spurs and Warriors.

John Wall is a modern type of PG who can break down a defense. Do you think the Spurs would be good enough to beat the Warriors if the Spurs traded Aldridge for him?

[Pavlov]

so what player would have been a better second option for us than LMA, that we could have obtainedRobin Lopez and player to be named later.

[DAF86]

Yep, Aldridge injured both Leonard and Parker last season.

THAT SOUR SONOFABITCH

But he didn't do much to make up for their absences either, tbh. Also, you are missing the point as per par for you on this thread.

[Pavlov]

But he didn't do much to make up for their absences either, tbh.Yeah, he should've been able to sweep the Warriors by himself. That's what NBA second options do.

THAT SONOFABITCH

[Pavlov]

Also, you are missing the point as per par for you on this thread.You wanted to call your shot on why the Spurs will lose this year.

[Hoops Czar]

You don't need an MVP caliber superstar, you just need a player whose game is more effective than a post-up, fadeaway, midrange heavy player.
Don't worry, everybody in this thread will disappear in the postseason when LMA shows up like he did against OKC in 2016 and GS last year. They'll return the following year though when he starts regular season stat padding against bad teams.

[DAF86]

so what player would have been a better second option for us than LMA, that we could have obtained

How do you quantify that? Of the ones that were rumored the easy choices are Irving and Paul. But you don't have to go to those extremes to find more efficient styles than Aldridge's. Pretty much any PG that can run the pick and roll, attack the basket and shoot the three would be better secondary options than Aldridge.

[DAF86]

Completely disagree that another all-star, who's not MVP-caliber player, in place of Aldridge would be enough to close the enormous talent gap between the Spurs and Warriors.

John Wall is a modern type of PG who can break down a defense. Do you think the Spurs would be good enough to beat the Warriors if the Spurs traded Aldridge for him?

No, because if you trade Wall for Aldridge straight up you would be leaving a huge hole on the front court. But I do think that John Wall is better secondary option in today's NBA than Aldridge. Even though Wall isn't ideal either because he can't shoot for shit.

[DAF86]

You wanted to call your shot on why the Spurs will lose this year.

You seem more interested on trying to find hidden messages on my posts than in actually reading what I'm saying, tbh.

[spurraider21]

How do you quantify that? Of the ones that were rumored the easy choices are Irving and Paul. But you don't have to go to those extremes to find more efficient styles than Aldridge's. Pretty much any PG that can run the pick and roll, attack the basket and shoot the three would be better secondary options than Aldridge.
i'll give you a lot of flexibility on that. who would we have to give up to acquire irving or paul? what would the roster have looked like.

[Pavlov]

You seem more interested on trying to find hidden messages on my posts than in actually reading what I'm saying, tbh.Your message is not hidden.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

No, because if you trade Wall for Aldridge straight up you would be leaving a huge hole on the front court. But I do think that John Wall is better secondary option in today's NBA than Aldridge. Even though Wall isn't ideal either because he can't shoot for shit.

Fine - Kevin Love, Al Horford? Drummond?

[Chinook]

OP has a fantasy in his head where Leonard beat the Rockets in spite of LMA and that Harden is the only reason why the team advanced. The rest of us know it wasn't just Game Six that LMA won, and that if OP had had his way, the Spurs would be a lottery team this year. Aldridge ball is winning ball. When SA was taking it to GS, LMA was right there dominating his match-ups. It's mind-boggling how people can overlook LMA every time he plays well and then bitch because he can't take a team triple-teaming him constantly. We've already seen Kawhi fall apart under the same pressure, because it's normal for a guy not to be able to do much with so much attention on him. It's not some strange feature of Aldridge that he needs spacing and other guys to take some heat off him and that if his shot isn't falling, he's not going to look good.

[daslicer]

OP has a fantasy in his head where Leonard beat the Rockets in spite of LMA and that Harden is the only reason why the team advanced. The rest of us know it wasn't just Game Six that LMA won, and that if OP had had his way, the Spurs would be a lottery team this year. Aldridge ball is winning ball. When SA was taking it to GS, LMA was right there dominating his match-ups. It's mind-boggling how people can overlook LMA every time he plays well and then bitch because he can't take a team triple-teaming him constantly. We've already seen Kawhi fall apart under the same pressure, because it's normal for a guy not to be able to do much with so much attention on him. It's not some strange feature of Aldridge that he needs spacing and other guys to take some heat off him and that if his shot isn't falling, he's not going to look good.

OP is a Manutard that believes he's always right 100 percent of the time.

[Chinook]

OP is a Manutard that believes he's always right 100 percent of the time.

DAF ain't a bad poster. He's just caught a bad case of the Mids with his preaching about advanced stats. There's more to the game than raw efficiency.

[DAF86]

i'll give you a lot of flexibility on that. who would we have to give up to acquire irving or paul? what would the roster have looked like.

For Irving or Paul I would have given Aldridge no doubt and then try to fill the bigman hole with other signings. My dream scenario this offseason would have been to trade Aldridge for Paul or Irving and keep Dedmon.

[DAF86]

Fine - Kevin Love, Al Horford? Drummond?

Fuck no, I wouldn't want any of those players over Aldridge. You don't get it, this isn't a trade Aldridge thread, tbh.

[SAGirl]

For Irving or Paul I would have given Aldridge no doubt and then try to fill the bigman hole with other signings. My dream scenario this offseason would have been to trade Aldridge for Paul or Irving and keep Dedmon.
As we all know he was made available and I am sure teams lowballed the Spurs.

He is here to stay...

think our spurs go underappreciated at times with a case of the grass is greener on the other side though.

[SAGirl]

Fuck no, I wouldn't want any of those players over Aldridge. You don't get it, this isn't a trade Aldridge thread, tbh.
I do get your point... but there isn't much they can do right now with the personnel they have. I also made that point earlier... just got to accept it for now.

Hope Kiwi and Rudy are halthy, hope Dijon continues getting better...
and this might just be me, but they should sign Kyle back.

[spurraider21]

OP is a Manutard that believes he's always right 100 percent of the time.
everyone believes they are right 100% of the time

unless you're trolling, people dont say things they believe to be wrong :lol

[DAF86]

OP is a Manutard that believes he's always right 100 percent of the time.

If I'm a "tard" you must surely have proven me wrong on some ocassion by now, right? Or do I just give opinions that don't match yours and instead of arguing back you just get butthurt about it?

[DAF86]

OP has a fantasy in his head where Leonard beat the Rockets in spite of LMA and that Harden is the only reason why the team advanced. The rest of us know it wasn't just Game Six that LMA won, and that if OP had had his way, the Spurs would be a lottery team this year. Aldridge ball is winning ball. When SA was taking it to GS, LMA was right there dominating his match-ups. It's mind-boggling how people can overlook LMA every time he plays well and then bitch because he can't take a team triple-teaming him constantly. We've already seen Kawhi fall apart under the same pressure, because it's normal for a guy not to be able to do much with so much attention on him. It's not some strange feature of Aldridge that he needs spacing and other guys to take some heat off him and that if his shot isn't falling, he's not going to look good.

Without Leonard we wouldn't have got past the Grizzlies, without Aldridge we might have, imho. Rockets is another thing, because both Tony and Leonard got hurt an we needed every single little contribution from every player to get past them. Except game 6 where we could have sent the Toros and win anyways.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Fuck no, I wouldn't want any of those players over Aldridge. You don't get it, this isn't a trade Aldridge thread, tbh.

Why? They are all star bigs, who don't post up much and their games fit better in today's NBA. Surely that was at least a part of your point, no?

For an Aldridge hater you sure seem to rate him extremely highly.

[daslicer]

If I'm a "tard" you must surely have proven me wrong on some ocassion by now, right? Or do I just give opinions that don't match yours and instead of arguing back you just get butthurt about it?

Nope you are just a retarded Manutard in my eyes.

[daslicer]

everyone believes they are right 100% of the time

unless you're trolling, people dont say things they believe to be wrong :lol

Nope I actually don't believe I'm always right. A few years ago I was one of Kawhi's biggest critics and didn't believe he could be a superstar. He proved me wrong last year and I gladly ate crow.

[spurraider21]

Nope I actually don't believe I'm always right. A few years ago I was one of Kawhi's biggest critics and didn't believe he could be a superstar. He proved me wrong last year and I gladly ate crow.
but in the present, you always think you're right.

[DAF86]

Nope I actually don't believe I'm always right. A few years ago I was one of Kawhi's biggest critics and didn't believe he could be a superstar. He proved me wrong last year and I gladly ate crow.

Yeah well, no wonder you don't tend to agree with me. :hat

[spurraider21]

Yeah well, no wonder you don't tend to agree with me. :hat
ya still think bertans is a future all-star?

[DAF86]

ya still think bertans is a future all-star?

For sure son. :hat

[Amuseddaysleeper]

OP has a fantasy in his head where Leonard beat the Rockets in spite of LMA and that Harden is the only reason why the team advanced. The rest of us know it wasn't just Game Six that LMA won, and that if OP had had his way, the Spurs would be a lottery team this year. Aldridge ball is winning ball. When SA was taking it to GS, LMA was right there dominating his match-ups. It's mind-boggling how people can overlook LMA every time he plays well and then bitch because he can't take a team triple-teaming him constantly. We've already seen Kawhi fall apart under the same pressure, because it's normal for a guy not to be able to do much with so much attention on him. It's not some strange feature of Aldridge that he needs spacing and other guys to take some heat off him and that if his shot isn't falling, he's not going to look good.

And where was LMA in games 2-4? and the fourth quarter when Kawhi was injured? LMA fell off a cliff once Kawhi went down, not sure how anyone could defend his performance in the WCF.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

I don't think you can win a tile with Aldridge as your second option. Not even if Lebron or Durant or anyone else is the first option. Aldridge is more of a third option type of player if you're serious about winning a championship.

[r0drig0lac]

I don't think you can win a tile with Aldridge as your second option. Not even if Lebron or Durant or anyone else is the first option. Aldridge is more of a third option type of player if you're serious about winning a championship.

as a second option? maybe
as second best player? impossible

[Chinook]

Without Leonard we wouldn't have got past the Grizzlies, without Aldridge we might have, imho. Rockets is another thing, because both Tony and Leonard got hurt an we needed every single little contribution from every player to get past them. Except game 6 where we could have sent the Toros and win anyways.

Aldridge wasn't just good in Game Six man. Not even just looking at stats should let you believe that.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZPuKGlwt8U

The reality is that outside of the first game, Aldridge had a fine series, averaging 22 and 9 with a block on 51-percent shooting. As I said, you are fantasizing about a series where Leonard was carrying the team, but they were going as LMA went. That's obviously not to take away from Kawhi and the MVP-caliber player he was. It was just LMA and his post-up game that caused Houston's game plan to break down.

Against Memphis, LMA had the job of holding back Gasol and Randolph as series along. That was not something an afterthought big could do.

And of course, he's dominated the Warriors pretty much any team SA has beaten them recently.

[daslicer]

but in the present, you always think you're right.

Actually nope. Stupid argument anyways if you want to side with Manutard it's fine with me.

[Chinook]

And where was LMA in games 2-4? and the fourth quarter when Kawhi was injured? LMA fell off a cliff once Kawhi went down, not sure how anyone could defend his performance in the WCF.

Aldridge dominated in Game Three.

[DAF86]

Aldridge wasn't just good in Game Six man. Not even just looking at stats should let you believe that.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZPuKGlwt8U

The reality is that outside of the first game, Aldridge had a fine series, averaging 22 and 9 with a block on 51-percent shooting. As I said, you are fantasizing about a series where Leonard was carrying the team, but they were going as LMA went. That's obviously not to take away from Kawhi and the MVP-caliber player he was. It was just LMA and his post-up game that caused Houston's game plan to break down.

Against Memphis, LMA had the job of holding back Gasol and Randolph as series along. That was not something an afterthought big could do

Did you read what I wrote? :lol

[DAF86]

Actually nope. Stupid argument anyways if you want to side with Manutard it's fine with me.

You sound like a very rational person son.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Aldridge dominated in Game Three.

I'm talking about the Warriors series, he was MIA. He was 8-22 in Game 3 vs the Warriors.

[daslicer]

You sound like a very rational person son.

Go suck your daddy Manu's dick.

[dabom]

People were calling to let go LMA for bums this summer. Amusedfaggot. :lmao

[DAF86]

Go suck your daddy Manu's dick.

:lol

OK, will do. :lol

[Chinook]

Did you read what I wrote? :lol

Yes, and it was bullshit. The team didn't need "everybody" in the Rockets series any more than they did against Memphis. Aldridge-ball won the semis, not Capela-ball. You're always going to need others chipping in, from Manu blocking Harden to Tony going off on Conley.

[Chinook]

I'm talking about the Warriors series, he was MIA. He was 8-22 in Game 3 vs the Warriors.

He was dominant in Game One against them until Kawhi went out and they started triple-teaming him.

[dabom]

I said it was better to keep LMA this year than get rid of him for peanuts. :lol

Always fucking right. :lol

[DAF86]

Yes, and it was bullshit. The team didn't need "everybody" in the Rockets series any more than they did against Memphis. Aldridge-ball won the semis, not Capela-ball. You're always going to need others chipping in, from Manu blocking Harden to Tony going off on Conley.

I honestly think you could have played 4 Spurstalk posters alongside Kawhi on round 1 and he would have will them past the Grizzlies too. That's how Godly Kawhi was on that series.

And I don't know where this idea that I thought Kawhi won the Rocket series all alone comes from, but I never said such thing. The injury problems started to show on that series and Kawhi slowed down big time.

[dabom]

And I have to disagree with OP. The sum of the year says otherwise. You can twists what ever narrative you want. The Spurs are winning with LMA. And LMA is a big reason why.

[dabom]

Every star player has bad nights and every star loses games. How many more you win says how good of a player you are.

Kawhi being out and LMA been performing great tbh. Are we gonna do shit without Kawhi? No. No other star in the league would either.

[dabom]

Spurstalk in a nutshell: LMA is a third option on a Championship team and everyone else is a shitty role player.

3rd in the West. :lol

[Chinook]

I honestly think you could have played 4 Spurstalk posters alongside Kawhi on round 1 and he would have will them past the Grizzlies too. That's how Godly Kawhi was on that series.

The Spurs would have been beaten pretty soundly had it been Kawhi and bums. They lost a game where Kawhi got 43 points and in the one before that, he wasn't able to stop his team from being blown out. In Game Five, they absolutely needed Aldridge, Parker and second-leading scorer Patty to win. In the close-out game, Parker had 27 points, LMA double-doubled and the team took a game where they were only leading by one going into the fourth. It's sort of amazing how you can be so stat-oriented but still come up with a narrative like this.


And I don't know where this idea that I thought Kawhi won the Rocket series all alone comes from, but I never said such thing. The injury problems started to show on that series and Kawhi slowed down big time.

Because you though LMA was just a role-player against the Rockets rather than the fulcrum for the team. They didn't win because of modern, efficient Kawhi-ball (which of course has its one problems fitting into the modern NBA). They won because LMA came in and dominated his match-ups in the post, especially prototype modern big Capela.

[DAF86]

The Spurs would have been beaten pretty soundly had it been Kawhi and bums. They lost a game where Kawhi got 43 points and in the one before that, he wasn't able to stop his team from being blown out. In Game Five, they absolutely needed Aldridge, Parker and second-leading scorer Patty to win. In the close-out game, Parker had 27 points, LMA double-doubled and the team took a game where they were only leading by one going into the fourth. It's sort of amazing how you can be so stat-oriented but still come up with a narrative like this.



Because you though LMA was just a role-player against the Rockets rather than the fulcrum for the team. They didn't win because of modern, efficient Kawhi-ball (which of course has its one problems fitting into the modern NBA). They won because LMA came in and dominated his match-ups in the post, especially prototype modern big Capela.

The Rockets series was won on defense, tbh.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

And I have to disagree with OP. The sum of the year says otherwise. You can twists what ever narrative you want. The Spurs are winning with LMA. And LMA is a big reason why.

You can not win a title if LMA is a top 2 player on your team. And no, Spurs were not beating the Warriors last year even with a healthy Kawhi.

[dabom]

You can not win a title if LMA is a top 2 player on your team. And no, Spurs were not beating the Warriors last year even with a healthy Kawhi.

The problem is we don't have a third option you dumb fuck. :lol

Not that LMA is good enough. :lol

[Chinook]

The Rockets series was won on defense, tbh.

Nice try, but points don't score themselves, and last I checked, the team needed to get more than Houston to win. Those points came from somewhere. (And of course, Aldridge's defense was one of the fundamental aspects of how they held the Rockets in check anyway.)

[Pavlov]

The Rockets series was won on defense, tbh.That's a pro-LMA argument tbh.

[Seventyniner]

I honestly think you could have played 4 Spurstalk posters alongside Kawhi on round 1 and he would have will them past the Grizzlies too. That's how Godly Kawhi was on that series.

I think game 4 of that series disproves your point. Kawhi went god mode and the Spurs still lost.

[DPG21920]

I'm talking about the Warriors series, he was MIA. He was 8-22 in Game 3 vs the Warriors.

This argument is beyond dumb (no offense). Also, why aren’t you bashing the Wolves like you do SA for losing to ATL?

[Stabula]

There's a lot of posters in this forum like Darius Bieber, Amuseddaysleeper, Hoops Czar etc. who will try to find anyway to be miserable while watching basketball for entertainment. Seems really unhealthy, imagine when they're at work.

[DPG21920]

What’s really funny is claiming CP to be better than LMA and how with no LMA and CP3 SA would be better suited. CP with stacked teams never did much (made it to the WCF one time which you seem to knock LMA for since it’s not a championship).

Besides that, you take Harden off the Rockets like Kawhi is off the Spurs and they get their a** beat in the playoffs despite the fact many here claim HOU’s roster to be far superior.

[bklynspursfan]

This argument is beyond dumb (no offense). Also, why aren’t you bashing the Wolves like you do SA for losing to ATL?

Aldridge was a bit more passive, but they literally keyed in on him, and I think Kerr said Patty and tried to take them both out of the series. When you lose your best player, it's easier for teams to shut down Option #2. unless your GS.

And they won't bash the Wolves or anyone else for losing to lesser teams. It only happens to us... Or GS for losing to Utah by 30 for that matter.

[DAF86]

What’s really funny is claiming CP to be better than LMA and how with no LMA and CP3 SA would be better suited. CP with stacked teams never did much (made it to the WCF one time which you seem to knock LMA for since it’s not a championship).

Besides that, you take Harden off the Rockets like Kawhi is off the Spurs and they get their a** beat in the playoffs despite the fact many here claim HOU’s roster to be far superior.

What were those stacked teams? The teams that immediately turn into sub 500 teams without him?

CP3 on the Spurs would be a perfect fit, tbh. Only concern would be his injury issues.

[DPG21920]

What were those stacked teams? The teams that immediately turn into sub 500 teams without him?

CP3 on the Spurs would be a perfect fit, tbh. Only concern would be his injury issues.

It’s funny how people here argue different sides of the coin when it suits them.

[DAF86]

It’s funny how people here argue different sides of the coin when it suits them.

Mmh, show me what different sides of the coin did I argue over this. CP3 on the Hornets and Clippers was, to a lesser degree, like Lebron on the Heat and Cavs. Teams would lose every time they missed a game and once they left them altogether, they became lottery teams.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

This argument is beyond dumb (no offense). Also, why aren’t you bashing the Wolves like you do SA for losing to ATL?

I don’t praise the wolves or OKC either for what it’s worth. I just think a terrible offseason along with injuries has made this the worst spurs team of the decade. Even if they were healthy (can Kawhi even stay on the court long enough to find last year’s form?) they took a step back over the offseason while most other playoff teams got better.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

What’s really funny is claiming CP to be better than LMA and how with no LMA and CP3 SA would be better suited. CP with stacked teams never did much (made it to the WCF one time which you seem to knock LMA for since it’s not a championship).

Besides that, you take Harden off the Rockets like Kawhi is off the Spurs and they get their a** beat in the playoffs despite the fact many here claim HOU’s roster to be far superior.

But in fairness without Harden they still have CP3 who has historically killed the spurs

[DPG21920]

But in fairness without Harden they still have CP3 who has historically killed the spurs

CP3 beat the Spurs on time in the playoffs, right? But that is besides the point. If CP is so much better than LMA and HOU so much better than SA, if you take Harden off of HOU, there should be no excuses for CP/HOU, right?

They would do much better than SA/LMA with no Kawhi, right?

[DAF86]

BTW, I don't know who claims the Rockets roster to be superior to the Spurs one. Take away the two stars for each team and I think the Spurs would beat the Rockets easily on a playoffs series

[DPG21920]

BTW, I don't know who claims the Rockets roster to be superior to the Spurs one. Take away the two stars for each team and I think the Spurs would beat the Rockets easily on a playoffs series

Didn’t you just say CP>LMA?

[spurraider21]

i do think CP3 > LMA, tbh

we would have had to give up more than just LMA to get him

but it would be a bad look for the spurs to lure a big name FA, get him unhappy, and then trade him. i think it works out much better to win over LMA so future FA's can look at that as a team willing to make their players happy

[DAF86]

Didn’t you just say CP>LMA?

Yes, I also said: "take away the two stars for each team", meaning Kawhi and LA and Harden and Paul. The Spurs roster is just a lot more balanced with more playmakers. On the Rockets (minus its two stars) you only have Gordon that can create some offense.

[DPG21920]

i do think CP3 > LMA, tbh

we would have had to give up more than just LMA to get him

but it would be a bad look for the spurs to lure a big name FA, get him unhappy, and then trade him. i think it works out much better to win over LMA so future FA's can look at that as a team willing to make their players happy

Whether people think CP is better than LMA or not (debatable IMO) doesn’t change the fact that he’s certainly not so much better that just swapping him for LMA would make SA better. Nor does it mean that if Harden was out for as long as Kawhi has been that HOU would be great. Hell, they barely have a better record WITH HARDEN and CP.

[DPG21920]

The point is acting like LMA is not producing is silly when they made a WCF with him which is just as much as the best CP3 has EVER done (one time)

[spurraider21]

Whether people think CP is better than LMA or not (debatable IMO) doesn’t change the fact that he’s certainly not so much better that just swapping him for LMA would make SA better. Nor does it mean that if Harden was out for as long as Kawhi has been that HOU would be great. Hell, they barely have a better record WITH HARDEN and CP.
you're right. besides, our roster needs an LMA way more than it needs a CP3

[DAF86]

Whether people think CP is better than LMA or not (debatable IMO) doesn’t change the fact that he’s certainly not so much better that just swapping him for LMA would make SA better. Nor does it mean that if Harden was out for as long as Kawhi has been that HOU would be great. Hell, they barely have a better record WITH HARDEN and CP.

CP3 is better than LA by a pretty solid margin, yeah. Not really debatable. One is a top 10 player in the league and the other is top 20 at best.

Even this slightly past prime, injury plagued, secondary role CP is still better than LA and numbers reflect it. You just need to go look at the stats to see just how big of a difference there is.

[DAF86]

The point is acting like LMA is not producing is silly when they made a WCF with him which is just as much as the best CP3 has EVER done (one time)

CP3 has never made it to the WCF son.

[DPG21920]

CP3 is better than LA by a pretty solid margin, yeah. Not really debatable. One is a top 10 player in the league and the other is top 20 at best.

Even this slightly past primer, injury plagued, secondary role CP is still better than LA and numbers reflect it. You just need to go look at the stats to see just how big of a difference there is.

You have issues. CP3 is a damn great player, but you really undervalue LMA and put too much emphasis on regular season stats without context/system.

CP3, especially before HOU (but even with HOU and their pace/system) had an entire offense centered around his usage/creation. I don’t think it’s fair to knock CP3 for that and he executed well in those systems but there is a reason that someone with such eye poppping stats in the regular season always seemed to fizzle out in the playoffs even with really good teams around him.

PG led offenses/impact, yada yada yada but you don’t seem to really be interested in a real convo IMO and it’s been hashed out so many times here already that if it didn’t resonate with you then, it certainly wont now.

[Bill_Brasky]

LMA ball is winning us games and keeping us afloat tbh. It's good enough. Let Kawhi come back healthy and get some legs before the playoffs start and i like our chances as much as anyone.

[DAF86]

You have issues. CP3 is a damn great player, but you really undervalue LMA and put too much emphasis on regular season stats without context/system.

CP3, especially before HOU (but even with HOU and their pace/system) had an entire offense centered around his usage/creation. I don’t think it’s fair to knock CP3 for that and he executed well in those systems but there is a reason that someone with such eye poppping stats in the regular season always seemed to fizzle out in the playoffs even with really good teams around him.

PG led offenses/impact, yada yada yada but you don’t seem to really be interested in a real convo IMO and it’s been hashed out so many times here already that if it didn’t resonate with you then, it certainly wont now.

I thought you were smarter than to bring the lazy "CP3 chokes on the playoffs" bullshit argument. THAT'S A LIE SON, just go see the numbers or better go see the games. CP3 is one of the greatest performers in the history of the NBA playoffs. But since his teams were never good enough and often suffered key injures (this is where one can knock on Paul) he never made it past the second round and that's where the narrative is created without much regard for actual facts.

[DPG21920]

I thought you were smarter than to bring the lazy "CP3 chokes on the playoffs" bullshit argument. That's a lie son, just go see the numbers or better go see the games. CP3 is one of the greatest performers in the history of the NBA playoffs. But since his teams were never good enough and often suffered key injures (this is where one can knock on Paul) he never made it past the second round and that's where the narrative is created without much regard for actual facts.

Where did I say CP chokes?

[DAF86]

Where did I say CP chokes?


There is a reason that someone with such eye poppping stats in the regular season always seemed to fizzle out in the playoffs

[gospursgojas]

Both are pretty much life time losers so far. I'd take Aldridge over CP3 just for the fact that I'm actually going to get something for what I pay for. Paul is never healthy.

[DAF86]

We are comparing one of the greatest PG of all time with a B level all-star, tbh.

[gospursgojas]

We are comparing one of the greatest PG of all time with a B level all-star, tbh.

I would expect a goat PG to carry his team to at least a conference finals once. Regardless of team.

[DPG21920]

I don’t see how you inferred that as choking nor do I see any word that corresponds to choke/choking in what you quoted.

[DAF86]

Anyway, thanks for derailing the real topic of the thread. If folks didn't get it before, for sure won't be getting it now. :lol

[DAF86]

I don’t see how you inferred that as choking nor do I see any word that corresponds to choke/choking in what you quoted.

OK, do you want me to correct my sentences from "choke" to " fizzle out"? OK, it's a lie that Paul fizzles out on the playoffs, he's always putting monster performances. Happy?

[dabom]

Fizzle and choke have the same context to me.

[DPG21920]

We are comparing one of the greatest PG of all time with a B level all-star, tbh.

I can see where you get off topic/confused. I didn’t say CP choked. I’m not even saying LMA is more talented than CP.

What I wrote about CP/Regular Season/Playoff was not to frame CP as bad or as a choker. It was to provide context to my observation about you and how you use regular season stats/no context to evaluate things.

CP is amazing and more talented than LMA. He also has better stats. BUT, he literally has/had systems built all around him. The “fizzle in the playoffs” part was to show impact. That’s where things get blurry with LMA/CP. CP can still be a great player and put up amazing stats and fall short because the impact PG’s have and the systems built around such ball dominant PGs set that up.

So I’m not saying CP sucks are doesn’t put up stats. I’m saying you should look at, as has been discussed at length before, WHY he falls short in the playoffs despite playing seemingly really well statistically

[DPG21920]

Anyway, thanks for derailing the real topic of the thread. If folks didn't get it before, for sure won't be getting it now. :lol

:lol

[DPG21920]

OK, do you want me to correct my sentences from "choke" to " fizzle out"? OK, it's a lie that Paul fizzles out on the playoffs, he's always putting monster performances. Happy?

He does fizzle out though (meaning CP3 led teams). If you are going to say LMA is not “winning ball” despite LMA in the role you are complaining about being a WCF team while CP3 can’t even get there, does that not make you stop and think “hmmm, maybe my position on the matter is off?”

[Seventyniner]

I don’t praise the wolves or OKC either for what it’s worth. I just think a terrible offseason along with injuries has made this the worst spurs team of the decade. Even if they were healthy (can Kawhi even stay on the court long enough to find last year’s form?) they took a step back over the offseason while most other playoff teams got better.

With Kawhi sitting so much we can't possibly know how good this team is. The Wolves and Thunder got better but from a low base.

It's also rather unfair to compare this year's Spurs with other Spurs teams in the past with Kawhi out.

Are you just against standing pat in general (from 61 wins and WCF, no less) or do you think the Spurs actually had better moves they realistically could have made?

[DAF86]

I can see where you get off topic/confused. I didn’t say CP choked. I’m not even saying LMA is more talented than CP.

What I wrote about CP/Regular Season/Playoff was not to frame CP as bad or as a choker. It was to provide context to my observation about you and how you use regular season stats/no context to evaluate things.

CP is amazing and more talented than LMA. He also has better stats. BUT, he literally has/had systems built all around him. The “fizzle in the playoffs” part was to show impact. That’s where things get blurry with LMA/CP. CP can still be a great player and put up amazing stats and fall short because the impact PG’s have and they systems built around such ball dominant PGs set that up.

So I’m not saying CP sucks are doesn’t put up stats. I’m saying you should look at, as has been discussed at length before, WHY he falls short in the playoffs despite playing seemingly really well statistically

The reason, to me, that Paul has always fall short on the playoffs is because (1) his teams have never been good enough and (2) he is injury prone and always seems to get to the playoffs with some sort of lingering thing.

Regarding the other part of the post, this season the Spurs have a system specially made to fit Aldridge's game and it has lead to one of the worst offenses on the league. Sure, the lack of competent guards surely plays a role but that didn't seem to matter when the offense was centered on Kawhi, tbh.

[DPG21920]

The reason, to me, that Paul has always fall short on the playoffs is because (1) his teams have never been good enough and (2) he is injury prone and always seems to get to the playoffs with some sort of lingering thing.

Regarding the other part of the post, this season the Spurs have a system specially made to fit Aldridge's games and it has lead to one of the worst offenses on the league. Sure, the lack of competent guards surely plays a role but that didn't seem to matter when the offense was centered on Kawhi, tbh.

CP has had plenty of stacked teams :lol Get out of here with that. With someone so great, even if you don’t think his teams were stacked (they were) to not get to the WCF one time???? Once? Yet, with a team that is certainly worse than CP3 had, you expect and are upset because you say LMA isn’t winning ball? LmA is supposed to win a title like this with this team? But CP3 just “didn’t have enough to get to a WCF”. So how was he playing winning ball?

This “system” around LMA is not even close to apples-to-apples :lol They didn’t trade Kawhi and say let’s build around LMA. They have adapted to survive with Kawhi out way longer than expected (amongst other injuries). This SA team with the injuries is certainly not “stacked” and with Kawhi, they had LMA has a 2nd option so yeah, offense with Kawhi being the center and LMA #2 should be a ton better than LMA as a make-shift #1 with no planning and no real 2nd option.

Listen to what you are trying to argue my man.

[dabom]

The reason, to me, that Paul has always fall short on the playoffs is because (1) his teams have never been good enough and (2) he is injury prone and always seems to get to the playoffs with some sort of lingering thing.

Regarding the other part of the post, this season the Spurs have a system specially made to fit Aldridge's games and it has lead to one of the worst offenses on the league. Sure, the lack of competent guards surely plays a role but that didn't seem to matter when the offense was centered on Kawhi, tbh.

If LMA was out and Kawhi was healthy, our offense would get worse too. And our defense too.

[Hoops Czar]

He was dominant in Game One against them until Kawhi went out and they started triple-teaming him.

They weren't triple teaming him. :lol He was garbage for the remainder of the series, games 1 post Kawhi through game 4. Had he bothered to show up, the Spurs might have been able to steal one game. He was also garbage after game 2 of the OKC series when the Thunder switched Adams on him. I don't know why this is so hard for people to understand? The postup, mid range, Iso offense is dead in favor of the motion offense. Oh sure, it's good enough to win 50+ games in the regular season but you won't be winning squat against a good defensive team in the postseason if you can't get easy shots at the rim or from beyond the arc through precision passing, cuts and slashes, none of which aldridge does well. So, you're absolutely right. It's winning basketball when you lower your expectations to non championship contender.

[DAF86]

If LMA was out and Kawhi was healthy, our offense would get worse too. And our defense too.

With no LA but with Kawhi, the offense wouldn't be one of the worst on the league, not even close. Of that I'm sure.

[DAF86]

CP has had plenty of stacked teams :lol Get out of here with that. With someone so great, even if you don’t think his teams were stacked (they were) to not get to the WCF one time???? Once? Yet, with a team that is certainly worse than CP3 had, you expect and are upset because you say LMA isn’t winning ball? LmA is supposed to win a title like this with this team? But CP3 just “didn’t have enough to get to a WCF”. So how was he playing winning ball?

This “system” around LMA is not even close to apples-to-apples :lol They didn’t trade Kawhi and say let’s build around LMA. They have adapted to survive with Kawhi out way longer than expected (amongst other injuries). This SA team with the injuries is certainly not “stacked” and with Kawhi, they had LMA has a 2nd option so yeah, offense with Kawhi being the center and LMA #2 should be a ton better than LMA as a make-shift #1 with no planning and no real 2nd option.

Listen to what you are trying to argue my man.

What were the stacked teams? David West and Peja Stojakovic with Byron Scott as the Coach? When I look back at that team I still can't believe they won 60 something games. Man, Chris Paul was robbed of MVP that year.

And then Blake Griffin and Deandre Jordan :lol two guys that have never done squat without CP3 holding their hand. I expect Blake to get exposed badly on Detroit, tbh.

Regarding LA, Kawhi and the offense, read above.

[TD 21]

"Not winning ball" is factually incorrect and poorly worded, but I know what he meant: you're not winning a championship that way in '18. That's obvious, but so is the fact that they don't have a better current option. All this talk of him being better as a finisher more so than creator sounds nice in theory, but it's not feasible as more than a change of pace with the current roster.

[dabom]

With no LA but with Kawhi, the offense wouldn't be one of the worst on the league, not even close. Of that I'm sure.

Kawhi is the better player at the same time I can say that LMA has great health. If LMA was out, could Kawhi play without losing games like LMA right now?

And how would that affect our record.

[Chinook]

They weren't triple teaming him. :lol

Yes they were.

[dabom]

"Not winning ball" is factually incorrect and poorly worded, but I know what he meant: you're not winning a championship that way in '18. That's obvious, but so is the fact that they don't have a better current option. All this talk of him being better as a finisher more so than creator sounds nice in theory, but it's not feasible as more than a change of pace with the current roster.

We'll he was talking about the Regular Season. So yeah, he wasn't talking about Championships.

[DAF86]

We'll he was talking about the Regular Season. So yeah, he wasn't talking about Championships.


I'm talking about championship level winning basketball. The kind of winning basketball we Spurs fans are accostumed to.

[DPG21920]

I feel like I’m in bizzaro world where this is a serious thread with truly insane premise though.

[dabom]

Your last sentence of the OP clearly was talking about RS. Now if you want to talk about if hes good enough to win Championships with, yeah he's good. We just need a third option.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

CP3 beat the Spurs on time in the playoffs, right? But that is besides the point. If CP is so much better than LMA and HOU so much better than SA, if you take Harden off of HOU, there should be no excuses for CP/HOU, right?

They would do much better than SA/LMA with no Kawhi, right?

I do think no harden but cp3 led rockets team would beat this current spurs team with no Kawhi even if you still have LMA. I think the Rockets would be too much for the spurs in that matchup.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

"Not winning ball" is factually incorrect and poorly worded, but I know what he meant: you're not winning a championship that way in '18. That's obvious, but so is the fact that they don't have a better current option. All this talk of him being better as a finisher more so than creator sounds nice in theory, but it's not feasible as more than a change of pace with the current roster.

:tu

[dabom]

I do think no harden but cp3 led rockets team would beat this current spurs team with no Kawhi even if you still have LMA. I think the Rockets would be too much for the spurs in that matchup.

You probably think the puppies are better than the Spurs. :lmao

[DPG21920]

You probably think the puppies are better than the Spurs. :lmao

He does. He blasts SA for losing to ATL while missing players and says nothing about the Wolves losing to them fully healthy. A Wolves team where he would take their players over SA despite the fact those players have a worse record than SA WITHOUT KAWHI.

[dabom]

He does. He blasts SA for losing to ATL while missing players and says nothing about the Wolves losing to them fully healthy. A Wolves team where he would take their players over SA despite the fact those players have a worse record than SA WITHOUT KAWHI.

I remember him slobbering the puppies during the offseason. :lol

[dbreiden83080]

They will still win 50 games with our best player basically out all year long.. It is winning enough..

[Amuseddaysleeper]

He does. He blasts SA for losing to ATL while missing players and says nothing about the Wolves losing to them fully healthy. A Wolves team where he would take their players over SA despite the fact those players have a worse record than SA WITHOUT KAWHI.

Wolves had a tougher schedule than the Spurs,
Look it up my friend

[dabom]

Wolves had a tougher schedule than the Spurs,
Look it up my friend

:lol

Strength of schedule is only like 1 or 2 wins over the whole season and yet, Spurs without Kawhi have a better record. :lmao

[Hoops Czar]

Wolves had a tougher schedule than the Spurs,
Look it up my friend

29th SOS

14-10 since December 15

[Down Under]

You aren't ever winning anything, with a 6 foot, pass first PG as your number one option. As good as Paul is & his teams have been loaded - playing with some of the best Pick n Roll finishers in their primes in Chandler & Jordan, All Star Power Forwards - David West at that time & Blake Griffin & deadly shooters for spacing in Stojakovic & Redick, you can't get it done deep in the playoffs because your main guy can't dominate through scoring.

[sasaint]

Post-up game is a sight for sore eyes for those who like old-school ball. It's an efficient game and I'd much rather Aldridge dance in the post than take long contested two-pointers. He has a good variance of post-up, drives, and pick n' pop shots. He's doing good, it's just that we're missing Kawhi and Rudy and our shooters aren't hitting open shots.

As an old schooler, I think I know what you are saying. But to me "post-up" is a term that has lost all meaning. Just because you pass the ball to a "big" who has his back to the basket it doesn't really mean it's a post-up. In old school terms, the big had to be somewhere near the paint. Anymore, bigs have no idea how to get good (usually meaning"early") position, so defenders push them out 18-20 feet from the bucket. (This is especially true of LMA.) it is hard for me to call that a "post-up." LMA doesn't usually want to get physical enough to establish true post position, as long as he gets the ball. Consequently you get fadeaways, which are not very efficient, instead of strong moves that are actually toward the basket.

[weeks]

We’ve had an extremely easy schedule

Dude the Cavs would be in the lottery without their MVP

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Dude the Cavs would be in the lottery without their MVP

I agree but they’re comfortably worse than the spurs

[Amuseddaysleeper]

You aren't ever winning anything, with a 6 foot, pass first PG as your number one option. As good as Paul is & his teams have been loaded - playing with some of the best Pick n Roll finishers in their primes in Chandler & Jordan, All Star Power Forwards - David West at that time & Blake Griffin & deadly shooters for spacing in Stojakovic & Redick, you can't get it done deep in the playoffs because your main guy can't dominate through scoring.

Harden and Paul together are comfortably part of the second best team in the league. Rockets are much much better this season if both those guys stay healthy

[Stabula]

As an old schooler, I think I know what you are saying. But to me "post-up" is a term that has lost all meaning. Just because you pass the ball to a "big" who has his back to the basket it doesn't really mean it's a post-up. In old school terms, the big had to be somewhere near the paint. Anymore, bigs have no idea how to get good (usually meaning"early") position, so defenders push them out 18-20 feet from the bucket. (This is especially true of LMA.) it is hard for me to call that a "post-up." LMA doesn't usually want to get physical enough to establish true post position, as long as he gets the ball. Consequently you get fadeaways, which are not very efficient, instead of strong moves that are actually toward the basket.

This was much more true last season than this current season. LMA has been taking less fadeaways and opting for more efficient stronger moves especially when a smaller guy is on him comparatively. I think it's one of the main reasons he's been so good this season.

[weeks]

This is sarcasm right? Just without the blue font?
:lol @ the state of this forum if they'd gotten lopez instead of LMA

[weeks]

I agree but they’re comfortably worse than the spurs
primarily because of LMA

[Down Under]

Harden and Paul together are comfortably part of the second best team in the league. Rockets are much much better this season if both those guys stay healthy
True, but Harden is their No 1 guy.

[sasaint]

This was much more true last season than this current season. LMA has been taking less fadeaways and opting for more efficient stronger moves especially when a smaller guy is on him comparatively. I think it's one of the main reasons he's been so good this season.

I think there have been some rare games that LMA has manned up. He played pretty tough against the Nuggets. But the vast majority of the time he still defaults to his beloved fadeaways.

[offset formation]

OP has a fantasy in his head where Leonard beat the Rockets in spite of LMA and that Harden is the only reason why the team advanced. The rest of us know it wasn't just Game Six that LMA won, and that if OP had had his way, the Spurs would be a lottery team this year. Aldridge ball is winning ball. When SA was taking it to GS, LMA was right there dominating his match-ups. It's mind-boggling how people can overlook LMA every time he plays well and then bitch because he can't take a team triple-teaming him constantly. We've already seen Kawhi fall apart under the same pressure, because it's normal for a guy not to be able to do much with so much attention on him. It's not some strange feature of Aldridge that he needs spacing and other guys to take some heat off him and that if his shot isn't falling, he's not going to look good.

This should have been the final post.

[DAF86]

This should have been the final post.

Except that nothing of that is remotely close to being true. Specially the part where I supposedly said we won the Rockets series solely because of Kawhi. :lol

You gotta remember the creator of that post said Aldridge should be the number one option over Kawhi, tbh.

[weeks]

let's not forget that he also was totally cool saying "this is kawhi's team"
on manu: he's so good, man. i mean i always knew he was good but it wasn't until i played with him i realized how good he was

[Chinook]

Except that nothing of that is remotely close to being true. Specially the part where I supposedly said we won the Rockets series solely because of Kawhi. :lol

You gotta remember the creator of that post said Aldridge should be the number one option over Kawhi, tbh.

Bro, you said LMA was playing a bit role against Houston.

Anyways, I said the offense works better going inside-out through a big rather than a wing iso. Then again, you think the Spurs have been one of the worst offenses in the league despite ranking 17th in ORtg and missing three of their top four options for most of the season.

[Arcadian]

In the all-time rankings, CP > LA

Right now, LA > CP

One is a 2018 all-star, the other is not.

[YGWHI]

Are folks here really such butthurt homers that can't understand what I'm trying to say? :lol


I feel like I’m in bizzaro world where this is a serious thread with truly insane premise though.

I guess the premise was "this is a perimeter-oriented league" "we're in 2018, not early 2.000's when post-up bigs dominated the league" "a big can't post-up 45% of his time on court on these days" "it's not a winning formula in a 7 games series if a big post-up +20 times a game"

I don't care if it's Aldridge or any other big in the league, if that's the "premise" about an old post-up style won't beat elite, dynamic, perimeter oriented teams, OP was right.

[dabom]

I guess the premise was "this is a perimeter-oriented league" "we're in 2018, not early 2.000's when post-up bigs dominated the league" "a big can't post-up 45% of his time on court on these days" "it's not a winning formula in a 7 games series if a big post-up +20 times a game"

I don't care if it's Aldridge or any other big in the league, if that's the "premise" about an old post-up style won't beat elite, dynamic, perimeter oriented teams, OP was right.

OSOB Duncan in 2013 almost won a FMVP. Prime Duncan and LMA and Kawhi easily 3peet.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

When I see people oversimplifying things like the OP and the LA vs Kawhi crowd, it is a good litmus test for identifying people that don't know what the hell they are talking about.

If you want to beat the Warriors you need to be able to take advantage of their lack of size down low. With the way that LA is playing physical in the post backing guys down and finishing with hooks with either hand is an asset that will help in the postseason. I want to see Ryan Anderson or Zaza Pachulia try to iso him in the post.

It's so effective that team's are routinely double teaming him to try and slow him down. The issue we are currently having is how we respond to the double teams. We are not seeing the cuts, passing, and outside spacing that makes those double teams pay. We are slow to react allowing teams to recover.

What is not winning basketball is the clusterfuck on offense that we see when he is not on the court. I suspect that when Kawhi comes back at least one of them will be on the court at all times.

And of course LMA's touches will go down. Kawhi will get about 10 shots a game more than what Anderson is giving them at the 3 as well he should. LMA's will have to give up some shots accordingly. IT will also mean less time for Forbes and those 3 guard lineups that cannot rebound worth a shit.

[YGWHI]

Anyways, I said the offense works better going inside-out through a big rather than a wing iso.
If we're in early 2.000's. And if that big is Tim Duncan.

But in 2018 if the big is LMA and the wing-iso is Kawhi or KD, I have any doubt about that a wing should be the first option in today NBA.



Then again, you think the Spurs have been one of the worst offenses in the league despite ranking 17th in ORtg and missing three of their top four options for most of the season.

Spurs defense is hiding many problems. Because being 17th on offense means being a non-playoffs team.

[YGWHI]

When I see people oversimplifying things like the OP and the LA vs Kawhi crowd, it is a good litmus test for identifying people that don't know what the hell they are talking about.
It has nothing to do with Kawhi or LMA.

You can use other big and other wing in the league for example. It's a matter of styles in 2.018. Post-up game isn't effective as your main offense. That's all.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

It has nothing to do with Kawhi or LMA.

You can use other big and other wing in the league for example. It's a matter of styles in 2.018. Post-up game isn't effective as your main offense. That's all.

Again, GS is susceptible to postups because of their lack of size. You need bigs that can move to handle all the pnr and outside shooting but LMA is very good on defense. If anyone is a problem in that regard it is Pau. He may very well need to sit in the playoffs.

This notion that postup offense doesn't have a place in the modern game is just ignorant. The guys that are being phased out are the ones that are sluggish on defense out in space because without handchecking bigs are forced to switch on penetrations and run out on shooters. Having the footwork and strength to back players down and score with hooks is always going to have a place.

[Stabula]

If Patty Mills wasn't a bum, Murray could shoot, Anderson wasn't so passive, Bertans/Green/Forbes were consistent, Rudy Gay were healthy, Kawhi were healthy the offense wouldn't be what it is. A lot of offensive problems here and Aldridge's post-up game isn't in the equation.

[Seventyniner]

Spurs defense is hiding many problems. Because being 17th on offense means being a non-playoffs team.

Not true at all. 17th on offense + 2nd on defense = 3rd seed right now. A playoff team by definition.

[TheDoctor]

Fizzle and choke have the same context to me.

[Slippy]

If Patty Mills wasn't a bum, Murray could shoot, Anderson wasn't so passive, Bertans/Green/Forbes were consistent, Rudy Gay were healthy, Kawhi were healthy the offense wouldn't be what it is. A lot of offensive problems here and Aldridge's post-up game isn't in the equation.

Dont let that realization get in the way of the narrative now. Haha. Want to add relying on 40yo as your main closer.

Thats why choosing to complain after a win during a turbulent season full of injuries & stil missing their key players is weak .

A playoff exit on a healthy spurs team including Kawai, would be the right time to make your case.