Gun Control

[lebomb]

I own a firearm, and I do not see anything wrong with these reforms that students and people would like to see.


Ban assault weapons
Require universal background checks before gun sales
Pass a gun violence restraining order law that would allow courts to disarm people who display warning signs of violent behavior


I see nothing wrong with this. What are your thoughts?

[Blake]

Define assault weapon or else you'll feel the wrath of the ar-15 forum

[baseline bum]

So ban semiautomatic rifles? I don't see that flying at all. Not even Obama would have bothered with legislation that ridiculous much less Trump doing it.

[lebomb]

Define assault weapon or else you'll feel the wrath of the ar-15 forum


High capacity semi auto rifle that fires .223, 5.56, or 7.62 rounds. That's my definition. Who needs this for self protection besides the zombie apocalypse happening? These guns should be in the hands of law enforcement or the military. I dont want to hear this shit is for hunting either. They make plenty of rifles designed strictly for hunting. Unless you are hunting large groups of people, the AR is really unnecessary for the general public.

[KenMcCoy]

That's too narrow of a definition. If you limit it to specific calibers they'll just create new ones to get around it.

[lebomb]

That's too narrow of a definition. If you limit it to specific calibers they'll just create new ones to get around it.


That was just an example of what I consider an assault rifle. I say ban any caliber that fits the criteria. I cant get into specifics, the government/state will have to define that.

[djohn2oo8]

973982172242685953

[boutons_deux]

Ban assault weapons
Require universal background checks before gun sales
Pass a gun violence restraining order law that would allow courts to disarm people who display warning signs of violent behavior


I see nothing wrong with this. What are your thoughts?

If gun regulations don't address the 300M+ guns already in USA, they're useless, totally ineffective.

Since oligarchy's SCOTUS shills detached "gun" from "militia", aka ACTIVIST/REVISIONIST so-called "judging" that so-called conservatives/Repugs are supposed to hate,

America is fucked and unfuckable.

[KenMcCoy]

I don't own any firearms, but I don't agree with banning semi-auto assault rifles. Just because others can't see a need to own something doesn't mean we should ban them.

Stricter background checks including review of prescribed medications (opiods)
Increased age limits on semi-automatics
Better entrance security for schools (walls/fences creating single entry point)

I can live with that...

[Splits]

973997318193209345

[Blake]

Just because others can't see a need to own something doesn't mean we should ban them.


Uh yeah, when a particular something is used to murder people over and over, you're gonna have to explain your need to own that something

[Splits]

973990167181701127

[KenMcCoy]

Uh yeah, when a particular something is used to murder people over and over, you're gonna have to explain your need to own that something

Don't blame the tool...blame the murderer. People can just as easily be killed via: cars, trucks, knives, homemade bombs, hammers, axes, etc.

More people die from knives each year than from AR-15s/rifles: https://www.statista.com/statistics/195325/murder-victims-in-the-us-by-weapon-used/

[lebomb]

Uh yeah, when a particular something is used to murder people over and over, you're gonna have to explain your need to own that something

Having a gun at home in your nightstand to protect your family is one thing. Owning an AR is a different story. Who are you fighting off? The taliban?

[lebomb]

Don't blame the tool...blame the murderer. People can just as easily be killed via: cars, trucks, knives, homemade bombs, hammers, axes, etc.

More people die from knives each year than from AR-15s/rifles: https://www.statista.com/statistics/195325/murder-victims-in-the-us-by-weapon-used/


This may be true, but Ive never seen 50 people killed at one time by one person using a knife.

[boutons_deux]

"nightstand" a really secure place that kids will never find

[KenMcCoy]

Haha...you've never seen Red Dawn! You never know with these russians...

[koriwhat]

Uh yeah, when a particular something is used to murder people over and over, you're gonna have to explain your need to own that something

tylenol.

[Blake]

This may be true, but Ive never seen 50 people killed at one time by one person using a knife.

Or a hammer

[lebomb]

"nightstand" a really secure place that kids will never find

Who said I had kids. People with kids need to teach their kids about firearms and/or keep the firearm in a safe.

[Blake]

tylenol.

Uh ok. Is that what you take after one of your patented message board rants gives you a headache?

[lebomb]

As long as there are bad guys, people need to protect themselves. But, there is a limit as to what you need. A rocket launcher might be overkill.

[koriwhat]

Uh ok. Is that what you take after one of your patented message board rants gives you a headache?

anything to turn the corner, right blake? don't want to address the murders at the hand of tylenol? yeah, didn't think so because your narrative/agenda falls flat.

[SpursforSix]

"nightstand" a really secure place that kids will never find

Agreed. They should hide it in your mom's belly rolls.

[Blake]

anything to turn the corner, right blake? don't want to address the murders at the hand of tylenol? yeah, didn't think so because your narrative/agenda falls flat.

I would ask wtf you're talking about but frankly I don't care what your dumb ass is ranting about here

[koriwhat]

I would ask wtf you're talking about but frankly I don't care what your dumb ass is ranting about here

yeah because you're a "male" feminist binary retard.

[Blake]

yeah because you're a "male" feminist binary retard.

Uh huh

[Spurminator]

Don't blame the tool...blame the murderer.

We do. We put the murderers in prison, not their guns.

Preventative measures often target tools and the people who use them. We regulate the shit out of cars for safety. You can be sure that if there was a specific vehicle that mass murderers tended to favor because of how easy it makes it to kill people, that vehicle would be banned.

[KenMcCoy]

This may be true, but Ive never seen 50 people killed at one time by one person using a knife.

33 dead - 130 injured in Stabbing Spree: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/33-dead-130-injured-china-knife-wielding-spree-n41966

84 dead by Vehicle running Through crowd:https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2016/07/14/vehicles-terror-france-has-seen-before/87109200/

If someone is set on killing, they'll find a way.

[Blake]

33 dead - 130 injured in Stabbing Spree: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/33-dead-130-injured-china-knife-wielding-spree-n41966

84 dead by Vehicle running Through crowd:https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2016/07/14/vehicles-terror-france-has-seen-before/87109200/

If someone is set on killing, they'll find a way.

You're assuming the numbers would be equal with an ar15

[Pavlov]

This may be true, but Ive never seen 50 people killed at one time by one person using a knife.


Or a hammer


33 dead - 130 injured in Stabbing Spree: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/33-dead-130-injured-china-knife-wielding-spree-n41966

84 dead by Vehicle running Through crowd:https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2016/07/14/vehicles-terror-france-has-seen-before/87109200/

If someone is set on killing, they'll find a way.Remember when that guy killed all those people at the concert by throwing cars from that hotel?

[lebomb]

33 dead - 130 injured in Stabbing Spree: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/33-dead-130-injured-china-knife-wielding-spree-n41966

84 dead by Vehicle running Through crowd:https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2016/07/14/vehicles-terror-france-has-seen-before/87109200/

If someone is set on killing, they'll find a way.

An AR can cause that much damage from 3/4 of a mile away. Its much harder to control the death rate.

[koriwhat]

An AR can cause that much damage from 3/4 of a mile away. Its much harder to control the death rate.

so discredit those 2 events because the narrative doesn't fit the agenda?

[Brazil]

973990167181701127

is that real ?

:lmao

[Blake]

so discredit those 2 events because the narrative doesn't fit the agenda?

But Tylenol

[koriwhat]

But Tylenol

an issue you want no part of.... how about bigPharma? why blame the gun when all incidents have been proven to include psychoactive drugs?

[Pavlov]

an issue you want no part of.... how about bigPharma? why blame the gun when all incidents have been proven to include psychoactive drugs?:lol "all"

[KenMcCoy]

We regulate the shit out of cars for safety. You can be sure that if there was a specific vehicle that mass murderers tended to favor because of how easy it makes it to kill people, that vehicle would be banned.

All of the murders below were performed by a vehicle with four or more wheels. There was no push to mandate personal travel be done on motorcycles and ban all cars and trucks. (As a rider, I'd love this :downspin:)

http://abcnews.go.com/US/car-hits-crowd-protesters-white-nationalist-rally-virginia/story?id=49179590

https://www.cnn.com/2016/11/28/us/ohio-state-university-active-shooter/

https://www.cnn.com/2016/12/23/europe/berlin-christmas-market-attack-victims/

https://www.cnn.com/2017/03/22/europe/uk-parliament-firearms-incident/

[lebomb]

so discredit those 2 events because the narrative doesn't fit the agenda?

I realize they happened and its true that you can kill anyone with just about anything including your bare hands. But, still an AR is meant for really one thing only. Kill mass numbers of anything.

I just think its a good solution to one very big problem we are having right now with mass shootings. Again, just my opinion and take on this matter.

[Pavlov]

All of the murders below were performed by a vehicle with four or more wheels. There was no push to mandate personal travel be done on motorcycles and ban all cars and trucks. (As a rider, I'd love this :downspin:)

http://abcnews.go.com/US/car-hits-crowd-protesters-white-nationalist-rally-virginia/story?id=49179590

https://www.cnn.com/2016/11/28/us/ohio-state-university-active-shooter/

https://www.cnn.com/2016/12/23/europe/berlin-christmas-market-attack-victims/

https://www.cnn.com/2017/03/22/europe/uk-parliament-firearms-incident/Then you're cool with guns' being subject to the same licensing, training, insurance and registration required for the sale and use of cars, right?

[koriwhat]

I realize they happened and its true that you can kill anyone with just about anything including your bare hands. But, still an AR is meant for really one thing only. Kill mass numbers of anything.

I just think its a good solution to one very big problem we are having right now with mass shootings. Again, just my opinion and take on this matter.

i pretty much agree. i like guns but see no purpose for AR but then again just because i can't find a purpose doesn't mean they should be banned. i can't find a purpose for reality tv and yet it's been on for 20+ yrs.

[spurraider21]

Remember when that guy killed all those people at the concert by throwing cars from that hotel?
still dont get this nonsensical point you try to make

[Pavlov]

still dont get this nonsensical point you try to makeIt's just as easy to kill people from 400 yards away by throwing cars at them.

And Tylenol.

[spurraider21]

It's just as easy to kill people from 400 yards away by throwing cars at them.

And Tylenol.
nobody is disputing that a car is used different than a gun in an attempt to kill people.

[Pavlov]

nobody is disputing that a car is used different than a gun in an attempt to kill people.Nor could they -- but it's all the same to them, apparently.

[Spurminator]

All of the murders below were performed by a vehicle with four or more wheels. There was no push to mandate personal travel be done on motorcycles and ban all cars and trucks. (As a rider, I'd love this :downspin:)

http://abcnews.go.com/US/car-hits-crowd-protesters-white-nationalist-rally-virginia/story?id=49179590

https://www.cnn.com/2016/11/28/us/ohio-state-university-active-shooter/

https://www.cnn.com/2016/12/23/europe/berlin-christmas-market-attack-victims/

https://www.cnn.com/2017/03/22/europe/uk-parliament-firearms-incident/

Semi-automatic is much more specific than "four or more wheels."

There's no strong push to ban guns with "one or more barrels."

[Chris]

974033924493111296
974035346999701506

[KenMcCoy]

Then you're cool with guns' being subject to the same licensing, training, insurance and registration required for the sale and use of cars, right?

100% yes...

In Texas a driver's license isn't required to buy a car or operate it on personal property or a closed course (race track). Driving on public roads requires license, insurance, and registration. Failure to comply is Class C misdemeanor and $200 fine.

I'd be happy with the same for guns: no license required to purchase or discharge on private property or gun range. Class C misdemeanor for discharging in public without proper license, insurance, and registration.

[Pavlov]

100% yes...

In Texas a driver's license isn't required to buy a car or operate it on personal property or a closed course (race track). Driving on public roads requires license, insurance, and registration. Failure to comply is Class C misdemeanor and $200 fine.

I'd be happy with the same for guns: no license required to purchase or discharge on private property or gun range. Class C misdemeanor for discharging in public without proper license, insurance, and registration.



Texas driving without a license: Class C MisdemeanorTitle and transfer records?

Everyone just leaves their guns at home?

[KenMcCoy]

Title and transfer records for cars? If purchased from an individual, or out of state, it is the purchasers responsibility to register if they are operating on public roads. Again, it's only illegal to operate a car on public roads without a license/insurance/registration; if it's not licensed/insured/registered it is perfectly legal to transport it on a trailer to a ranch or race track.

People would still be able to transport/carry guns...just if they wanted to use it for self defense in public, the gun would need to be registered and the user licensed.

[Pavlov]

Title and transfer records for cars? If purchased from an individual, or out of state, it is the purchasers responsibility to register if they are operating on public roads.Title is not registration.
Again, it's only illegal to operate a car on public roads without a license/insurance/registration; if it's not licensed/insured/registered it is perfectly legal to transport it on a trailer to a ranch or race track.So everyone just leaves their guns at home?

[KenMcCoy]

Sorry...edited my original post. Added:

People would still be able to transport/carry guns...just if they wanted to use it for self defense in public, the gun would need to be registered and the user licensed.

As for title...you don't have to title all cars/motor vehicles you buy. I have a few vehicles that aren't titled...they just sit in my garage waiting for me to work on them.

[Pavlov]

Sorry...edited my original post. Added:

People would still be able to transport/carry guns...just if they wanted to use it for self defense in public, the gun would need to be registered and the user licensed.Shooting at a range?


As for title...you don't have to title all cars/motor vehicles you buy. I have a few vehicles that aren't titled...they just sit in my garage waiting for me to work on them.Titles for only working guns?

[Spurminator]

I think what we've illustrated pretty clearly here is you can't compare guns and cars.

[Blake]

I think what we've illustrated pretty clearly here is you can't compare guns and cars.

But hammers and Tylenol tho

[Pavlov]

I think what we've illustrated pretty clearly here is you can't compare guns and cars.Ford Festivas are made strictly for killin'.

[Blake]

Ford Festivas are made strictly for killin'.

https://media.giphy.com/media/dqYifynhpztD2/giphy.gif

[Spurminator]

http://st.motortrend.com/uploads/sites/10/2016/05/2016-hyundai-accent-se-sedan-angular-front.png
COME AND TAKE IT

[KenMcCoy]

Shooting at a range?

Titles for only working guns?

Looks like some racetracks require TX drivers licenses while others require SCCA type licenses. So, to compare it to guns, it would be up to the range as to whether someone could operate a gun with either a Federal/State gun license or a NRA memberhip/license.

Titles for cars are only needed if you plan on registering it. There are tons of cars sold on craigslist every day with no title. For guns, title would only be necessary if you plan on registering it for use on public land for self defense.

[KenMcCoy]

I think what we've illustrated pretty clearly here is you can't compare guns and cars.

Why not? Both are perfectly harmless by themselves but disastrously lethal in the wrong hands.

[Pavlov]

Looks like some racetracks require TX drivers licenses while others require SCCA type licenses. So, to compare it to guns, it would be up to the range as to whether someone could operate a gun with either a Federal/State gun license or a NRA memberhip/license.Do tracks require insurance?


Titles for cars are only needed if you plan on registering it. There are tons of cars sold on craigslist every day with no title. For guns, title would only be necessary if you plan on registering it for use on public land for self defense.Oh.

[Blake]

Why not? Both are perfectly harmless by themselves but disastrously lethal in the wrong hands.

Guns are intentionally lethal in the "right" hands

[Pavlov]

Kids have killed themselves just by touching cars yo.

[spurraider21]

Why not? Both are perfectly harmless by themselves but disastrously lethal in the wrong hands.
same with bombs and shoulder-fired missiles

[Blake]

Kids have killed themselves just by touching cars yo.

https://media.giphy.com/media/dqYifynhpztD2/giphy.gif

[DMC]

I own a firearm, and I do not see anything wrong with these reforms that students and people would like to see.


Ban assault weapons
Require universal background checks before gun sales
Pass a gun violence restraining order law that would allow courts to disarm people who display warning signs of violent behavior


I see nothing wrong with this. What are your thoughts?

I have a black friend so I cannot be racist.

[DMC]

same with bombs and shoulder-fired missiles

And a Twitter account.

[DMC]

http://st.motortrend.com/uploads/sites/10/2016/05/2016-hyundai-accent-se-sedan-angular-front.png
COME AND TAKE IT

If you drive that you'd probably suck them off while they take it.

[Pavlov]

https://media.giphy.com/media/dqYifynhpztD2/giphy.gifGotta hand it to the Germans....

[spurraider21]

And a Twitter account.
has anyone died via twitter account?

[DMC]

973997318193209345

Black people carry guns because they are scared of other black people.

[DMC]

has anyone died via twitter account?

Yes

[spurraider21]

Yes
when?

[Spurminator]

Why not? Both are perfectly harmless by themselves but disastrously lethal in the wrong hands.

Come on, dude. Operating a car, by your definition of it, is driving it. Operating a gun involves firing it.

Millions of people, every day, operate their cars together in clustered groups for hours. Not even the most passionate gun rights supporter would suggest those same people operate their guns in clustered groups for hours every day.

[Pavlov]

Not even the most passionate gun rights supporter would suggest those same people operate their guns in clustered groups for hours every day.You sure about that?

I can see it working in schools tbh.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

So ban semiautomatic rifles? I don't see that flying at all. Not even Obama would have bothered with legislation that ridiculous much less Trump doing it.

Why is it ridiculous? A ban on semiautos has been extremely successful elsewhere.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Don't blame the tool...blame the murderer. People can just as easily be killed via: cars, trucks, knives, homemade bombs, hammers, axes, etc.

More people die from knives each year than from AR-15s/rifles: https://www.statista.com/statistics/195325/murder-victims-in-the-us-by-weapon-used/

What is with this false dilemma? It's not an either or thing. How about blame both the assholes doing the shooting and the ease of access they have to the weapons they use?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

33 dead - 130 injured in Stabbing Spree: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/33-dead-130-injured-china-knife-wielding-spree-n41966

84 dead by Vehicle running Through crowd:https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2016/07/14/vehicles-terror-france-has-seen-before/87109200/

If someone is set on killing, they'll find a way.

There are regulations on knives and cars.

[boutons_deux]

There are regulations on knives and cars.

... but they, and nothing else, are not sacredly protected by perversion of the 2nd Amendment.

[DMC]

when?
5:47 EST

[DMC]

Come on, dude. Operating a car, by your definition of it, is driving it. Operating a gun involves firing it.

Millions of people, every day, operate their cars together in clustered groups for hours. Not even the most passionate gun rights supporter would suggest those same people operate their guns in clustered groups for hours every day.

Of course not, but millions of people every day fire weapons and have never even aimed a gun at anyone. You're not railing against firing guns, but owning them.
Therein lies the difference. Stop comparing apples to oranges.

[Bill_Brasky]

anything to turn the corner, right blake? don't want to address the murders at the hand of tylenol? yeah, didn't think so because your narrative/agenda falls flat.

This is so fucking retarded. Tylenol is a drug with an actual purpose. Guns were invented specifically because we needed an easier way to kill stuff. These things are not in any way comparable.

Same with cars, same with alcohol, same with any other object that someone has died from in some random way. Just stop with that nonsense argument.

[Chris]

Bad people do bad things. Buy a gun to protect yourself and your loved ones. Don't let them take away your guns in exchange for promises of protection. It's mental masturbation for pacifists and collectivists.

[DMC]

Bad people do bad things. Buy a gun to protect yourself and your loved ones. Don't let them take away your guns in exchange for promises of protection. It's mental masturbation for pacifists and collectivists.

No, you need to give up your right to self defense because you cannot stop a nuclear attack.

[Spurminator]

Of course not, but millions of people every day fire weapons and have never even aimed a gun at anyone. You're not railing against firing guns, but owning them.
Therein lies the difference. Stop comparing apples to oranges.

:lol My whole point is that cars and guns are apples and oranges. Thanks for agreeing. And the discussion ITT is related to the operation of them.

[KenMcCoy]

Come on, dude. Operating a car, by your definition of it, is driving it. Operating a gun involves firing it.

Millions of people, every day, operate their cars together in clustered groups for hours. Not even the most passionate gun rights supporter would suggest those same people operate their guns in clustered groups for hours every day.

The argument is valid, there are hundreds of thousands of AR owners that fire their guns on private land and gun ranges every day without harming anyone. Just like there are hundreds of thousands of kids under 14 driving ranch trucks or racing in sanctioned events that don't harm anyone. In scenario that Pavlov proposed, where guns had the exact same requirements as vehicles, a licensed gun owner would only be able to use a registered/titled gun on public land for self defense purposes. If they defended themselves with an unregistered gun, or were not licensed to carry the gun, they would receive a class c misdemeanor.

In 2014 the number of gun deaths per year finally equaled the number of vehicle deaths. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/12/17/guns-are-now-killing-as-many-people-as-cars-in-the-u-s/?utm_term=.4b06f6458857

Interestingly, that article points out that about two-thirds of all gun deaths are suicides. So, of the 30K gun deaths per year, 20K are suicides...that really deflates the statistics a bit.

[spurraider21]

5:47 EST
ok. let me know when you actually want to have a discussion

[Spurminator]

The argument is valid, there are hundreds of thousands of AR owners that fire their guns on private land and gun ranges every day without harming anyone. Just like there are hundreds of thousands of kids under 14 driving ranch trucks or racing in sanctioned events that don't harm anyone.

Are ranch trucks and race cars disproportionately used in mass murders involving vehicles?

[Quadzilla99]

I don't own any firearms, but I don't agree with banning semi-auto assault rifles. Just because others can't see a need to own something doesn't mean we should ban them.

Stricter background checks including review of prescribed medications (opiods)
Increased age limits on semi-automatics
Better entrance security for schools (walls/fences creating single entry point)

I can live with that...

The school security thing is so retarded. Teachers are underpaid but we have money for armed guards to patrol thousands of schools full time. Heck this school had one and he didnt do shit

[KenMcCoy]

The school security thing is so retarded. Teachers are underpaid but we have money for armed guards to patrol thousands of schools full time. Heck this school had one and he didnt do shit

My wife is an educator, so I agree with the under paid issue. My point is that most schools, older ones at least, have multiple entry points. They need to be designed more like an airport, where people are funneled into a few secure access points.

[Chris]

mein neger


974115199962746880

[Pavlov]

mein neger


974115199962746880There were cops at Parkland.

How many cops do they need?

[Chris]

There were cops at Parkland.

There was a stand down order, and the 2 officers that tried to go in anyways were suspended.


How many cops do they need?

This is not a static number. Do you understand what that means?

[Pavlov]

There was a stand down order, and the 2 officers that tried to go in anyways were suspended. No, there were resource officers at the school.


This is not a static number. Do you understand what that means?So they need 1 more cop?

2?

[Chris]

Hey kids! Skipping school is OK as long as you are spreading Socialist propaganda :tu

974103715576799233

[AaronY]

mein neger


974115199962746880
Shaq gonna feel real bad when Ingraham tells him to shut up and dribble

[DMC]

:lol My whole point is that cars and guns are apples and oranges. Thanks for agreeing. And the discussion ITT is related to the operation of them.
Well that's odd. In the OP it plainly states "ban assault weapons" not "control the use of assault weapons"

I suppose you're cooking your own narrative though.

[DMC]

Shaq gonna feel real bad when Ingraham tells him to shut up and dribble

He was told that for years, never could dribble worth a fuck and never ever shut up.

[DMC]

The school security thing is so retarded. Teachers are underpaid but we have money for armed guards to patrol thousands of schools full time. Heck this school had one and he didnt do shit

Armed guards = cops

The issue isn't education. Take that up in another thread.

No one here would have run into that school with an active shooter going apeshit. They always wait for backup, and if they don't they get killed. It would have been 18 deaths. No way he takes that kid down with his handgun. Cops often cannot hit shit even with many magazines, under duress. The shooter wasn't under duress, he knew no one was armed.

[DMC]

ok. let me know when you actually want to have a discussion

Ok, let me know when you want to discuss something honestly instead of the too easily spotted narrative shift, passive aggressive/verbal roll eyes and stonewalling.

Example: How many guns have been brought up on charges of homicide?

[spurraider21]

Ok, let me know when you want to discuss something honestly instead of the too easily spotted narrative shift, passive aggressive/verbal roll eyes and stonewalling.

Example: How many guns have been brought up on charges of homicide?
You’re just being intentionally stupid to derail the conversation

[Pavlov]

You’re just being intentionally stupid to derail the conversationIt's his shtick but I'm not sure his stupidity is intentional.

[ElNono]

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

"Arms" is pretty vague, tbh, unless specifically pointing to the human body. I mean, outside of fresh air, almost anything can be used as a weapon under the right circumstances.

Would be cool to see somebody challenge car insurance/registration/titles under a 2nd Amendment claim, just as sort of reverse test of the 2nd Amendment.

[lebomb]

Recap of my position:

I think ARs should be banned to the general public. What is the need for them to be in the common persons hand? A handgun is all that is needed for personal protection.

[boutons_deux]

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

"Arms" is pretty vague, tbh, unless specifically pointing to the human body. I mean, outside of fresh air, almost anything can be used as a weapon under the right circumstances.

Would be cool to see somebody challenge car insurance/registration/titles under a 2nd Amendment claim, just as sort of reverse test of the 2nd Amendment.

the conservatives LOVE to be originalists, but, like shitbag Scalia, are only originalists when it suits their politics.

18th "arms" were muzzle loading muskets and hand guns.

"militias" were included satisfy the shit hole slave states, where "militias" were slave-hunting, slave-oppressing posses.

SCOTUS "activist" 5 divorced "arms" from "militias" in Heller, SCOTUS whores actively refusing to be originaliss to enrich BigGun.

[KenMcCoy]

Any exemptions for the part of US you live in? I'd think you need more than a handgun in Alaska, Wyoming, Montana, West Texas, etc. I'm not just talking about self defense from humans...packs of coyotes, wolves, bears, moose, mountain lions...

[lebomb]

Any exemptions for the part of US you live in? I'd think you need more than a handgun in Alaska, Wyoming, Montana, West Texas, etc. I'm not just talking about self defense from humans...packs of coyotes, wolves, bears, moose, mountain lions...

They have hunting rifles and shotguns for that. An AR that shoots rounds that can penetrate just about anything at 2000-3000 ft per second makes no sense. People are just searching for reasons to keep these ARs out there for anyone to buy.

[boutons_deux]

sensible regulations wouldn't deny anyone from owning a gun, but they would make it more expensive, and very probably much less expensive that an annual cellphone cost (and replacement).

[KenMcCoy]

OK. One last question...do you think it is possible that the US is ever invaded by another country?

[KenMcCoy]

OK I lied about the last question...so hunting rifles like this are OK? https://tse4.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.J1eCWIWaM2i4rfRdL-FLLQHaHa&w=169&h=167&c=7&o=5&dpr=1.5&pid=1.7

[DMC]

Recap of my position:

I think ARs should be banned to the general public. What is the need for them to be in the common persons hand? A handgun is all that is needed for personal protection.

The Supreme Court decided that the 2nd Amendment isn't about personal protection. It's not the "right to personal protection" but the "right to keep and bear arms". But I agree with you, the common man has no need for even a handgun. We also have no need for other things we have a right to. "Need" is a faulty argument.

[Blake]

The Supreme Court decided that the 2nd Amendment isn't about personal protection. It's not the "right to personal protection" but the "right to keep and bear arms". But I agree with you, the common man has no need for even a handgun. We also have no need for other things we have a right to. "Need" is a faulty argument.

Muh nukes

[lebomb]

Well, I presented my case. If we leave things as they are, you will see many, many more AR mow downs.

[DMC]

They have hunting rifles and shotguns for that. An AR that shoots rounds that can penetrate just about anything at 2000-3000 ft per second makes no sense. People are just searching for reasons to keep these ARs out there for anyone to buy.

That's stupid.

The AR shoots 5.56mm rounds, same as a .223 that is almost too small to hunt hill country deer with in Texas. a .308 aka 7.62 Nato will do far more damage but you're not going to walk around with a semi-auto .308 shoulder firing at running civilians.

Again, the lethality of the round is a poor argument. It's the same caliber used for youth weapons in hunting and is notorious for poking holes beyond the fragmentation envelope. The issue with the AR-15 is the attractiveness to non-hunting type shooters, largely due to its use in video games and movies. The gun is too heavy and ugly for any real civilian use and is easily trumped in the field by a Sako or even a Remington or Winchester rifle. So if there is going to be a ban, it would have to be for some aspect, not just the platform itself because you cannot technically differentiate between an assault style rifle and a semi-auto hunting rifle.

The gun ignorant folks among you that suffer from the Dunning-Kruger effect are what keeps you from pushing forward any meaningful legislation.

[DMC]

Muh nukes

Yes Cucky boy, the Moore/Coulter extreme is the right approach. Stick with that.

[KenMcCoy]

That's stupid.

The AR shoots 5.56mm rounds, same as a .223 that is almost too small to hunt hill country deer with in Texas. a .308 aka 7.62 Nato will do far more damage but you're not going to walk around with a semi-auto .308 shoulder firing at running civilians.

Again, the lethality of the round is a poor argument. It's the same caliber used for youth weapons in hunting and is notorious for poking holes beyond the fragmentation envelope. The issue with the AR-15 is the attractiveness to non-hunting type shooters, largely due to its use in video games and movies. The gun is too heavy and ugly for any real civilian use and is easily trumped in the field by a Sako or even a Remington or Winchester rifle. So if there is going to be a ban, it would have to be for some aspect, not just the platform itself because you cannot technically differentiate between an assault style rifle and a semi-auto hunting rifle.

The gun ignorant folks among you that suffer from the Dunning-Kruger effect are what keeps you from pushing forward any meaningful legislation.

Black guns scary...Brown guns OK.


https://tse4.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.AGcYEH5NyZScLw2d4nDcaAHaFy&w=207&h=162&c=7&o=5&dpr=1.5&pid=1.7
Same caliber, both semi-auto, both available with 30 round clips.

[Blake]

Yes Cucky boy, the Moore/Coulter extreme is the right approach. Stick with that.

No, the dmc extreme of "ban all guns or ban no guns" is the genius approach.

The difference between your extreme and mine is that you're really serious.

Really.

[Blake]

Black guns scary...Brown guns OK.


https://tse4.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.AGcYEH5NyZScLw2d4nDcaAHaFy&w=207&h=162&c=7&o=5&dpr=1.5&pid=1.7
Same caliber, both semi-auto, both available with 30 round clips.

I'm fine with banning both of those

[KenMcCoy]

I'm fine with banning both of those

touche'

[lebomb]

You mufawkus take each point so literal. Just ban any high capacity AR or Rifle, I dont give two fucks if you hunt or not. You dont need a high capacity semi-auto to hunt. If you do, you cant shoot worth shit and shouldnt be hunting anyhow. Just go to HEB.

[Spurminator]

Well that's odd. In the OP it plainly states "ban assault weapons" not "control the use of assault weapons"

I suppose you're cooking your own narrative though.

You see, when you've been here a while you'll notice that sometimes the conversation within a thread shifts. I tend to go with the flow. If you feel every response within a thread needs to branch directly from the OP, that's your business. I was not responding to the OP.

[KenMcCoy]

You mufawkus take each point so literal. Just ban any high capacity AR or Rifle, I dont give two fucks if you hunt or not. You dont need a high capacity semi-auto to hunt. If you do, you cant shoot worth shit and shouldnt be hunting anyhow. Just go to HEB.

Haha...you pansies are so scared of big bad guns, most of which just sit in gun lockers all of their life. Banning high capacity AR or Rifles will not make anyone's chance of being killed by another person in the US any lower statistically. You just need to feel safe.

[lebomb]

Haha...you pansies are so scared of big bad guns, most of which just sit in gun lockers all of their life. Banning high capacity AR or Rifles will not make anyone's chance of being killed by another person in the US any lower statistically. You just need to feel safe.

Please give me a good reason that an ordinary citizen NEEDS an AR or high capacity rifle. I have not heard one yet. Its like trying to prove an ordinary citizen needs a tank. Just because they want one isnt good enough.

I never said ban all rifles or handguns, just ARs and high cap rifles.

[spurraider21]

Black guns scary...Brown guns OK.


https://tse4.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.AGcYEH5NyZScLw2d4nDcaAHaFy&w=207&h=162&c=7&o=5&dpr=1.5&pid=1.7
Same caliber, both semi-auto, both available with 30 round clips.
yes because the proposed law would say "ban all black AR-15 looking thingies"

i remember when regulations aimed at increasing auto fuel efficiency said "ban all hummer looking thingies"

[KenMcCoy]

Please give me a good reason that an ordinary citizen NEEDS an AR or high capacity rifle. I have not heard one yet. Its like trying to prove an ordinary citizen needs a tank. Just because they want one isnt good enough.

I never said ban all rifles or handguns, just ARs and high cap rifles.

- Defense from coyotes/wolves and other pack animals where 10 rounds from a handgun is not sufficient.

- Defense from potential US invasion from another country (dem Russians)

- Defense from potential authoritarian/fascist US government which is controlling the US military

[Blake]

- Defense from coyotes/wolves and other pack animals where 10 rounds from a handgun is not sufficient.

- Defense from potential US invasion from another country (dem Russians)

- Defense from potential authoritarian/fascist US government which is controlling the US military

:lol all three

[KenMcCoy]

i remember when regulations aimed at increasing auto fuel efficiency said "ban all hummer looking thingies"

When did regulations aimed at increasing fuel efficiency ever ban a particular product? I must have missed that... Did they take all SUVs off the road and I missed it?

[KenMcCoy]

:lol all three

Are all three not possible?

[Blake]

Are all three not possible?

What about space aliens that get past the SPACE FORCE?

We'll be needing dem ar15s

[spurraider21]

When did regulations aimed at increasing fuel efficiency ever ban a particular product? I must have missed that... Did they take all SUVs off the road and I missed it?
missing the forest for the trees tbh

[SpursforSix]

My solution would be to make every police officer and teacher go through Threat Neutralization Training.

It's high intensity training where you learn to use a gun non-lethally by targeting points of the body that neutralize a thread. Like a knee or hip.
Once the potential threat is neutralized, you can decide to either 1) place a fatal shot, or 2) call for an ambulance, or 3) arrest the suspect.

It would immediately lower gun deaths in the U.S.

[KenMcCoy]

What about space aliens that get past the SPACE FORCE?

We'll be needing dem ar15s

Yes or no?

[Blake]

Yes or no?

Yes.

Your turn:
Is a space alien invasion possible?

[KenMcCoy]

Yes.

Your turn:
Is a space alien invasion possible?

Since we haven't confirmed advanced ET life, no.

So...it is possible that those three things could happen, and the average citizen would need an AR/High capacity rifle in those situations. Do you now agree that we shouldn't ban those types of guns?

[lebomb]

:lol all three

X2

0% chance any of that shit happens.

[RandomGuy]

Don't blame the tool...blame the murderer. People can just as easily be killed via: cars, trucks, knives, homemade bombs, hammers, axes, etc.

More people die from knives each year than from AR-15s/rifles: https://www.statista.com/statistics/195325/murder-victims-in-the-us-by-weapon-used/

Sorry, the tool makes it easy.

Banning guns won't stop murder, but it will make it a LOT harder.

This is not rocket science.

[RandomGuy]

My solution would be to make every police officer and teacher go through Threat Neutralization Training.

It's high intensity training where you learn to use a gun non-lethally by targeting points of the body that neutralize a thread. Like a knee or hip.
Once the potential threat is neutralized, you can decide to either 1) place a fatal shot, or 2) call for an ambulance, or 3) arrest the suspect.

It would immediately lower gun deaths in the U.S.

Feel free to tell me how much you want your taxes raised to do this.

[RandomGuy]

Haha...you pansies are so scared of big bad guns, most of which just sit in gun lockers all of their life. Banning high capacity AR or Rifles will not make anyone's chance of being killed by another person in the US any lower statistically. You just need to feel safe.

Australian gun laws stopped 16 mass shootings, new calculations show
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/australian-gun-laws-stopped-16-mass-shootings-new-calculations-show-n855946

Australians feel pretty safe.

[DMC]

No, the dmc extreme of "ban all guns or ban no guns" is the genius approach.

The difference between your extreme and mine is that you're really serious.

Really.
Let me know when your alternative actually gets implemented.

[lebomb]

Feel free to tell me how much you want your taxes raised to do this.

Not only that. Has SpursforSix ever tried to aim at a knee or hip from as close at 10 to 15yds? The accuracy has to be crazy good. This isnt John Wick shooting at the bad guy.:lol Thats why at that distance you aim for the torso. Also, I doubt an intruder with an AR will be even that close. You will be shooting down the hall more than likely.

[DMC]

yes because the proposed law would say "ban all black AR-15 looking thingies"

i remember when regulations aimed at increasing auto fuel efficiency said "ban all hummer looking thingies"

Do you know anything at all about past gun legislation? Do you know what an "evil feature" is? When you learn that, return to the discussion and resume telling us how anything you're saying means something.

[RandomGuy]

As an Australian watching #NationalWalkOutDay, it looks like students all over the US are begging their government to protect them from guns.

And the government's response is, "Kids. Kids... you need to understand. We like money more than we like you." About right?---Tom Taylor

[DMC]

Not only that. Has SpursforSix ever tried to aim at a knee or hip from as close at 10 to 15yds? The accuracy has to be crazy good. This isnt John Wick shooting at the bad guy.:lol Thats why at that distance you aim for the torso. Also, I doubt an intruder with an AR will be even that close. You will be shooting down the hall more than likely.

at random shadows, not caring about center mass.

[TeyshaBlue]

- Defense from coyotes/wolves and other pack animals where 10 rounds from a handgun is not sufficient.

- Defense from potential US invasion from another country (dem Russians)

- Defense from potential authoritarian/fascist US government which is controlling the US military


Growing up in a rural area, often out of town, I never, nor did I know anyone, encounter a pack of coyotes/wolves/javalenas et al. Chased a few coyotes off my land with a lever action Winchester 30-30 tho. Never had an occasion to fire more than 2 rounds.

No country on earth can afford to occupy a nation the size of the US. Not happening.

We wouldnt stand a chance against a modern military campaign even if we had rpgs and mini guns. If we ever get to that point (highly unlikely) we'll have much more pressing concerns than battling our own military.

[KenMcCoy]

X2

0% chance any of that shit happens.

1) Man attacked by pack of wolves: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3522014/British-skier-flees-pack-wolves-just-socks-hiding-tree-eating-snow-crashed-accidentally-went-piste.html

2) US invasion from another country, 17 US citizens killed: https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/pancho-villa-raids-u-s

3) Current example of authoritarian government with military control of the country: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-43414348

I'd say the odds are greater than 0%

[DMC]

Growing up in a rural area, often out of town, I never, nor did I know anyone, encounter a pack of coyotes/wolves/javalenas et al. Chased a few coyotes off my land with a lever action Winchester 30-30 tho. Never had an occasion to fire more than 2 rounds.

No country on earth can afford to occupy a nation the size of the US. Not happening.

We wouldnt stand a chance against a modern military campaign even if we had rpgs and mini guns. If we ever get to that point (highly unlikely) we'll have much more pressing concerns than battling our own military.
Plus you cannot differentiate between "us" and "our own military" because we are our own military. Military folks don't get special gun ownership rights. Neither do cops.

[Blake]

Since we haven't confirmed advanced ET life, no.

So...it is possible that those three things could happen, and the average citizen would need an AR/High capacity rifle in those situations. Do you now agree that we shouldn't ban those types of guns?

In the seemingly infinite vastness of the universe and billions of visible galaxies you really don't believe it's "possible" that intelligent life is out there?

:lol OK then.

[KenMcCoy]

No country on earth can afford to occupy a nation the size of the US. Not happening.



Could a country occupy a portion/region of the US? You're ok with that region not being able to defend themselves until the US military arrives?

[KenMcCoy]

In the seemingly infinite vastness of the universe and billions of visible galaxies you really don't believe it's "possible" that intelligent life is out there?

:lol OK then.

Never said that.

[lebomb]

1) Man attacked by pack of wolves: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3522014/British-skier-flees-pack-wolves-just-socks-hiding-tree-eating-snow-crashed-accidentally-went-piste.html

2) US invasion from another country, 17 US citizens killed: https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/pancho-villa-raids-u-s

3) Current example of authoritarian government with military control of the country: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-43414348

I'd say the odds are greater than 0%

:lmao

1) Happened in the UK wilderness
2) Happened 375yrs ago
3) Syria

:lmao at these examples.

[Blake]

1) Man attacked by pack of wolves: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3522014/British-skier-flees-pack-wolves-just-socks-hiding-tree-eating-snow-crashed-accidentally-went-piste.html


If he'd only had his ar15 while skiing in Europe he could have killed those 3 wolves. No way a smaller gun would have worked in this scenario.

[Blake]

Never said that.

Well if you think intelligent life and space travel are both possible then....I don't know what to tell you

[spurraider21]

1) Man attacked by pack of wolves: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3522014/British-skier-flees-pack-wolves-just-socks-hiding-tree-eating-snow-crashed-accidentally-went-piste.html

2) US invasion from another country, 17 US citizens killed: https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/pancho-villa-raids-u-s

3) Current example of authoritarian government with military control of the country: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-43414348

I'd say the odds are greater than 0%
lol guy skis off terrain into the woodlands of bulgaria. totally gonna happen to jim bob in his rocking chair


If he'd only had his ar15 while skiing in Europe he could have killed those 3 wolves. No way a smaller gun would have worked in this scenario.

crofl yeah

[Blake]

1) Man attacked by pack of wolves: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3522014/British-skier-flees-pack-wolves-just-socks-hiding-tree-eating-snow-crashed-accidentally-went-piste.html

2) US invasion from another country, 17 US citizens killed: https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/pancho-villa-raids-u-s

3) Current example of authoritarian government with military control of the country: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-43414348

I'd say the odds are greater than 0%

Wait, you really referenced Pancho Villa?

[Blake]

Let me know when your alternative actually gets implemented.

It won't because it's stupid to allow someone to own a nuke even though it's a constitutional right to bear it.

Like an AR15

[DeadlyDynasty]

Wait, i can own a nuke?

[Pavlov]

- Defense from coyotes/wolves and other pack animals where 10 rounds from a handgun is not sufficient.

- Defense from potential US invasion from another country (dem Russians)

- Defense from potential authoritarian/fascist US government which is controlling the US militaryYou just need to feel safe.

[Blake]

Wait, i can own a nuke?

Nope even though it's your right to bear Arms

[DeadlyDynasty]

Nope even though it's your right to bear Arms

Lame, i was gonna buy one with bitcoin

[KenMcCoy]

:lmao

1) Happened in the UK wilderness
2) Happened 375yrs ago
3) Syria

:lmao at these examples.

Are the chances 0% or are they greater than 0%? 1% maybe?

[Blake]

Are the chances 0% or are they greater than 0%? 1% maybe?

Lol not even close to 1%.

[KenMcCoy]

You just need to feel safe.

Agreed 100%. My need to feel safe is within my rights as a US citizen and doesn't impinge on anyone elses.

[SpursforSix]

Feel free to tell me how much you want your taxes raised to do this.

Tell me how much it's worth to you to lower gun deaths by 50%+

[TeyshaBlue]

Could a country occupy a portion/region of the US? You're ok with that region not being able to defend themselves until the US military arrives?

No.

[RandomGuy]

Growing up in a rural area, often out of town, I never, nor did I know anyone, encounter a pack of coyotes/wolves/javalenas et al. Chased a few coyotes off my land with a lever action Winchester 30-30 tho. Never had an occasion to fire more than 2 rounds.

No country on earth can afford to occupy a nation the size of the US. Not happening.

We wouldnt stand a chance against a modern military campaign even if we had rpgs and mini guns. If we ever get to that point (highly unlikely) we'll have much more pressing concerns than battling our own military.

Guns are for lazy shits who don't want to be informed and involved. The best defense against tyranny is simply taking part in Democracy in an informed way.

[RandomGuy]

Tell me how much it's worth to you to lower gun deaths by 50%+

SHOOTINGS NOW THIRD LEADING CAUSE OF DEATH FOR U.S. CHILDREN
http://www.newsweek.com/guns-kids-third-leading-cause-death-627209

Quite a bit.

Arming teachers won't help, and is a waste of money and effort that can be spent elsewhere.

Generally:
Personally I am a bit tired of gun manufacturer propaganda. It's tiresome, and we can do better for public policy.

[Pavlov]

Agreed 100%. My need to feel safe is within my rights as a US citizen and doesn't impinge on anyone elses.You have the right to flat out kill people if you don't feel safe, but that doesn't impinge on other people's rights.

[KenMcCoy]

Lol not even close to 1%.

.001%?

[SpursforSix]

SHOOTINGS NOW THIRD LEADING CAUSE OF DEATH FOR U.S. CHILDREN
http://www.newsweek.com/guns-kids-third-leading-cause-death-627209

Quite a bit.

Arming teachers won't help, and is a waste of money and effort that can be spent elsewhere.

Generally:
Personally I am a bit tired of gun manufacturer propaganda. It's tiresome, and we can do better for public policy.

Armed teachers (with Thread Neutralization Training) would stop many of the mass shootings. And still allow for the shooter to be arrested and questioned as to motif.

And it wouldn't raise taxes that much. The training would just be integrated into whatever training was already in place.

[KenMcCoy]

Guns are for lazy shits who don't want to be informed and involved. The best defense against tyranny is simply taking part in Democracy in an informed way.

Democracy can never be threatened?

[DeadlyDynasty]

Guns are for lazy shits who don't want to be informed and involved. The best defense against tyranny is simply taking part in Democracy in an informed way.

You're either stupid, sheltered, or naive. I'm not one of these AR lovers/supporters, but your post reeks of someone who has never left green acres

[lebomb]

I just suggest ban ARs and this is where this thread goes. I actually kind of knew it would get here. :lmao

[RandomGuy]

Could a country occupy a portion/region of the US? You're ok with that region not being able to defend themselves until the US military arrives?

No, not really. Canada is too small, and Mexico's army is not really up to the task.

Anybody else, and you have to tell me how they will get these mythological troops onshore, and supply them past one of these:

https://images03.military.com/sites/default/files/styles/full/public/2018-02/carrierronaldreagan02101818.jpg?itok=ASuiaXvt

Not really an argument anyone should take seriously. Logistics, logistics, logistics.

[Pavlov]

.001%?What is the regional invasion and occupation scenario you're planning for in your area?

[RandomGuy]

You're either stupid, sheltered, or naive. I'm not one of these AR lovers/supporters, but your post reeks of someone who has never left green acres

I am none of those things. I am, however, kinda fed up with propaganda that is really obvious.

[AaronY]

1) Man attacked by pack of wolves: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3522014/British-skier-flees-pack-wolves-just-socks-hiding-tree-eating-snow-crashed-accidentally-went-piste.html

2) US invasion from another country, 17 US citizens killed: https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/pancho-villa-raids-u-s

3) Current example of authoritarian government with military control of the country: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-43414348

I'd say the odds are greater than 0%
.0001%

[KenMcCoy]

"I just suggest ban ARs and this is where this thread goes. I actually kind of knew it would get here. :lmao ?"

LOL...you knew it going in.

[midnightpulp]

Guns are for lazy shits who don't want to be informed and involved. The best defense against tyranny is simply taking part in Democracy in an informed way.

We don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater. A person has the right to defend themselves, and a firearm can potentially level the playing field in an otherwise unfair situation (i.e. woman, elderly person alone at home, home invasion happens). Police response time would be nowhere near fast enough to prevent matters. What I want is preventing the Cruzes, Lanzas, Holmes from just strolling into a store and emerging with a high capacity firearm minutes later. Also in favor of raising the minimum age to 21. But responsible, stable, and trained citizens (also in favor of gun ownership being granted via a license after a training class is completed) should be free to own a firearm for personal use (defense, hunting, hobbyist use).

[KenMcCoy]

.0001%

The odds of being in a car accident are .0006%...do you wear a seatbelt?

https://mashable.com/2012/08/07/google-driverless-cars-safer-than-you/#5b4ECRxwlgqk

The point is we do a lot of things, like wear seatbelts, because of the possibility that something happens. Owning a gun because the possibility that any of these could happen is no different.

[boutons_deux]

"Cruzes, Lanzas, Holmes"

... can buy whatever they want "on the street", 300M+ guns to choose from, including 1000s police guns lost.

[spurraider21]

The odds of being in a car accident are .0006%...do you wear a seatbelt?

https://mashable.com/2012/08/07/google-driverless-cars-safer-than-you/#5b4ECRxwlgqk

The point is we do a lot of things, like wear seatbelts, because of the possibility that something happens. Owning a gun because the possibility that any of these could happen is no different.
your odds are correct if you drive exactly one mile

[KenMcCoy]

"Cruzes, Lanzas, Holmes"

... can buy whatever they want "on the street", 300M+ guns to choose from, including 1000s police guns lost.




They can also steal a delivery truck and drive it through the crowd of kids waiting for the bus or build a bomb out of items found at home depot.

[KenMcCoy]

your odds are correct if you drive exactly one mile

Yeah...couldn't find good stats on serious accidents. What are the odds then?

[spurraider21]

Yeah...couldn't find good stats on serious accidents. What are the odds then?
i think the 1 accident per 165,000 miles is fine. you just have to factor in how many miles people drive on a daily/annual basis

instead you took their stat and performed a lazy calculation of the % of accidents per mile driven, and saying we have exactly that chance of being in an accident. thats just wrong, not even misleading

[KenMcCoy]

The general point is that the odds of being in a serious car accident are actually very small (when factoring millions of miles driven in the US annually) and we still wear seat belts. The odds of being in a situation where you need an AR15 are very small as well. But they are there...

[boutons_deux]

The general point is that the odds of being in a serious car accident are actually very small (when factoring millions of miles driven in the US annually) and we still wear seat belts. The odds of being in a situation where you need an AR15 are very small as well. But they are there...

goddamn, you're fucking stupid

[AaronY]

The odds of being in a car accident are .0006%...do you wear a seatbelt?

https://mashable.com/2012/08/07/google-driverless-cars-safer-than-you/#5b4ECRxwlgqk

The point is we do a lot of things, like wear seatbelts, because of the possibility that something happens. Owning a gun because the possibility that any of these could happen is no different.
I've been in four car accidents. I've been attacked by 0 wolfpacks.

I'll keep my eyes peeled for the wolfpacks tho

[RandomGuy]

They can also steal a delivery truck and drive it through the crowd of kids waiting for the bus or build a bomb out of items found at home depot.

... and when either of those things are used for mass murder on a regular basis, we should deal with it. Red herring, when it comes to gun control.

[Pavlov]

I'm bombproofing my porch.

Because chances!

It can't hurt against the invasion and occupation of my region either.

[RandomGuy]

The general point is that the odds of being in a serious car accident are actually very small (when factoring millions of miles driven in the US annually) and we still wear seat belts. The odds of being in a situation where you need an AR15 are very small as well. But they are there...

35,000 Americans annually. Not sure why we put up with this either, tbh.

[RandomGuy]

Yeah...couldn't find good stats on serious accidents. What are the odds then?

https://www.google.com/search?q=chance+of+dying+in+a+car+accident+per+mil e

Wikipedia gives it 45 deaths per billion miles traveled.

45/1,000,000,000= 0.000000045 per mile.

Drive 10,000 miles per year your chance is: 0.00045

This is why insurers charge more if you drive more.

FWIW.

[KenMcCoy]

:tu:tu

[spurraider21]

The general point is that the odds of being in a serious car accident are actually very small (when factoring millions of miles driven in the US annually) and we still wear seat belts. The odds of being in a situation where you need an AR15 are very small as well. But they are there...
there are tens of thousands of automobile deaths per year in the US.

mexican invasions and wolf pack attacks dont really hold a candle

[KenMcCoy]

there are tens of thousands of automobile deaths per year in the US.

mexican invasions and wolf pack attacks dont really hold a candle

How many AR deaths annually? A couple hundred? No push to ban cars and trucks though, huh?

[Pavlov]

How many AR deaths annually? A couple hundred? No push to ban cars and trucks though, huh?No, there is no push to ban cars and trucks.

It's not like they're AR-15s or something.

[KenMcCoy]

goddamn, you're fucking stupid

I'm taking that as a compliment coming from you. Thanks!

[spurraider21]

How many AR deaths annually? A couple hundred? No push to ban cars and trucks though, huh?
people drive cars around other people driving cars on a daily basis. you can't say the same for semi auto rifles.

again, its not a comparison.

you can also weight the utilitarian value of cars in a society vs their dangers. railroads were pretty dangerous in their earlier days. but the benefits were outrageous

[Pavlov]

Should I be stockpiling cars to resist the inevitable Guatemalan occupation?

I should be stockpiling cars to resist the inevitable Guatemalan occupation.

[DMC]

It won't because it's stupid to allow someone to own a nuke even though it's a constitutional right to bear it.

Like an AR15

My suggestion was to ban semi-autos. You're focusing on one receiver style as if that makes any difference. You might as well say "Ban the Bushmaster AR-15"

There are a dozen different assault style weapons that use the same round as the AR-15. What they have in common is the receiver action, but you're satiated just feeling empowered to say "ban AR-15s" because you're either too lazy to learn what you're trying to ban or you just want attention.

[DMC]

people drive cars around other people driving cars on a daily basis. you can't say the same for semi auto rifles.

again, its not a comparison.

you can also weight the utilitarian value of cars in a society vs their dangers. railroads were pretty dangerous in their earlier days. but the benefits were outrageous

So you're saying at gun ranges all across the US people aren't using guns around other people without shooting them?

Do you really want to use that angle?

The car argument fails without needing to make silly statements like that.

Also, the reason you came to the US was because it's a free country, brought to you by men with guns.

[DMC]

Should I be stockpiling cars to resist the inevitable Guatemalan occupation?

I should be stockpiling cars to resist the inevitable Guatemalan occupation.

You'd keep them in a separate garage to keep you from killing yourself with one.

[DMC]

35,000 Americans annually. Not sure why we put up with this either, tbh.

Because being born is 100% fatal. We will all die from something eventually. Should we put up with none of it?

[Pavlov]

You'd keep them in a separate garage to keep you from killing yourself with one.:lol DMC trying to get into a poster's personal life again.

Pictures of houses incoming.

[DMC]

:lol DMC trying to get into a poster's personal life again.

Pictures of houses incoming.

2 separate houses.

[Pavlov]

2 separate houses.1 wild assumption about a poster's personal life.

But do go on and tell me more about the personal information you have collected and analyzed.

[KenMcCoy]

Should I be stockpiling cars to resist the inevitable Guatemalan occupation?

I should be stockpiling cars to resist the inevitable Guatemalan occupation.

You could if you wanted to. That's what's awesome about this country :)

[Pavlov]

You could if you wanted to. That's what's awesome about this country :)Great, tell me what foreign occupation you are defending against.

[KenMcCoy]

haha...I don't even own a gun.

[Pavlov]

haha...I don't even own a gun.Then the Guatemalans have already won.

[spurraider21]

So you're saying at gun ranges all across the US people aren't using guns around other people without shooting them?

Do you really want to use that angle?

The car argument fails without needing to make silly statements like that.
we can certainly compare gun ranges to race tracks if you insist


Also, the reason you came to the US was because it's a free country, brought to you by men with guns.
no, i was born here

[Pavlov]

no, i was born here:lol DMC's personal data mining analysis fails again.

[KenMcCoy]

we can certainly compare gun ranges to race tracks if you insist




How about guns owned and used on private land and ranch vehicles?

[KenMcCoy]

Then the Guatemalans have already won.

Not yet...I still have the RIGHT to buy any type of gun that I so choose.

[Pavlov]

Not yet...I still have the RIGHT to buy any type of gun that I so choose.Too late.

They already know.

[Blake]

They can also steal a delivery truck and drive it through the crowd of kids waiting for the bus or build a bomb out of items found at home depot.

Which is easier to dodge, a spray of bullets or a ups truck

[pgardn]

Could a country occupy a portion/region of the US? You're ok with that region not being able to defend themselves until the US military arrives?


Oh hell yes we are with you.

First they try and take Cliven Bundy's land, next they try and federalize bird sanctuaries. Well we got a plan, we will take that bird ranger station and defend it to the death.

But this time... oh but this time... we will bring the junk food. Little Debbie's and Twinkies!






Ya see. It's possible nut-cakes like you and Bundy are infinitely more dangerous than the federal government. And when you gather to the call of some country-ass-fck bellowing on the ramhorn, the rest of the nation does not trust your claim to being trod on.

[KenMcCoy]

Which is easier to dodge, a spray of bullets or a ups truck

Actually, past history would show that it's easier to dodge a spray of bullets.

86 killed in Nice, France by delivery truck: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Nice_attack

vs only

58 killed in Las Vegas: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Las_Vegas_shooting

[Blake]

Actually, past history would show that it's easier to dodge a spray of bullets.

86 killed in Nice, France by delivery truck: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Nice_attack

vs only

58 killed in Las Vegas: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Las_Vegas_shooting

No words.

[Blake]

OK words. .....check the injury count. Lol.

[Pavlov]

Actually, past history would show that it's easier to dodge a spray of bullets.

86 killed in Nice, France by delivery truck: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Nice_attack

vs only

58 killed in Las Vegas: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Las_Vegas_shooting400 yards away.

[spurraider21]

How about guns owned and used on private land and ranch vehicles?
depends on the context... if you're comparing total deaths via cars to total deaths via guns, you'd have to look at how often they are used. millions of people drives cars in close proximity to other people on a daily basis. in that sense, they are not comparable to guns that are tucked away in gun safes or fired on some weekends at a range.

if intentional car/truck attacks became as common as shootings, then i would expect laws to be changed.

[pgardn]

no, i was born here

But the white man died for your type buster.

You are some sort of Persian or worse, a witch.
*cue lynch mob with torches in the night*

[KenMcCoy]

OK words. .....check the injury count. Lol.

Las Vegas - 422 injuries from gunshot wounds

Nice - 434 injured

[KenMcCoy]

400 yards away.

You are OK with killing as long as it's up close and personal?

[Pavlov]

You are OK with killing as long as it's up close and personal?If trucks were made exclusively to kill things I'd want them more tightly controlled.

But an AR15 is the exact same thing as a pillow to you since both can be used to kill.

[KenMcCoy]

depends on the context... if you're comparing total deaths via cars to total deaths via guns, you'd have to look at how often they are used. millions of people drives cars in close proximity to other people on a daily basis. in that sense, they are not comparable to guns that are tucked away in gun safes or fired on some weekends at a range.



Americans buy between 10-12 Billion rounds of ammo a year. We've already established that I'm not a statistician...so would you say gun deaths (minus suicides)/per million rounds fired is similar to auto accident fatalities/per million miles?

[KenMcCoy]

But an AR15 is the exact same thing as a pillow to you since both can be used to kill.

Yep...it all depends on who's behind the AR or the pillow.

[Pavlov]

Americans buy between 10-12 Billion rounds of ammo a year. We've already established that I'm not a statistician...so would you say gun deaths (minus suicides)/per million rounds fired is similar to auto accident fatalities/per million miles?How many people are killed by moving goalposts?

[RandomGuy]

You are OK with killing as long as it's up close and personal?

A gun is a tool, made for one thing, and one thing only, the imparting of a large amount of kinetic energy on something, usually living.

Trucks are tools, with uses other than that.

Not a valid comparison.

[Pavlov]

Yep...it all depends on who's behind the AR or the pillow.Would you rather be attacked from 400 yards away by a guy with a pillow or a guy with an AR15?

[KenMcCoy]

How many people are killed by moving goalposts?

We're so deep into this, I've forgotten what the goalposts are. The last thing I remember is you suggesting that guns should be controlled the same as automobiles and I agreed. Now you seem to have a problem with it.

[DMC]

A gun is a tool, made for one thing, and one thing only, the imparting of a large amount of kinetic energy on something, usually living.

Trucks are tools, with uses other than that.

Not a valid comparison.
Yet trucks go outside of their design purpose to kill more people than guns kill, which according to you is their design purpose. The large majority of guns never live up to their design purpose, according to you.

[lebomb]

Using deaths by other causes to justify the continued use of ARs by citizens to mass murder is pretty :lol

Good argument :claw

[KenMcCoy]

Using deaths by other causes to justify the continued use of ARs by citizens to mass murder is pretty :lol

Good argument :claw

Are you mad that people are murdered? Or that people are murdered with guns?

[KenMcCoy]

Would you rather be attacked from 400 yards away by a guy with a pillow or a guy with an AR15?

At 400 yards? I'll take my chances with either. That's right at the beginning of the effective range of an AR.

[Blake]

Las Vegas - 422 injuries from gunshot wounds

Nice - 434 injured

No, you don't get to discount the indirect injuries.

[Blake]

At 400 yards? I'll take my chances with either. That's right at the beginning of the effective range of an AR.

Uh huh.

[KenMcCoy]

No, you don't get to discount the indirect injuries.

By that measure, firecrackers are even more dangerous than guns and ups trucks combined!

1,527 Injured: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Turin_stampede

[RandomGuy]

https://pics.onsizzle.com/official-nra-school-uniforms-31010967.png

On sale now.

[RandomGuy]

Because gun control means hitting your target, imarite?

[Pavlov]

At 400 yards? I'll take my chances with either. That's right at the beginning of the effective range of an AR.You already documented how many people were killed at 400 yards by AR15s.

How many people have been killed at 400 yards by a pillow?

[Blake]

By that measure, firecrackers are even more dangerous than guns and ups trucks combined!

1,527 Injured: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Turin_stampede

Firecrackers aren't allowed in city limits here in SA.

Good find.

[Pavlov]

By that measure, firecrackers are even more dangerous than guns and ups trucks combined!

1,527 Injured: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Turin_stampedeOK, we can limit the sale of guns the way we limit the sale of fireworks.

[AaronY]

https://pics.onsizzle.com/official-nra-school-uniforms-31010967.png

On sale now.

Groan

[KenMcCoy]

Firecrackers aren't allowed in city limits here in SA.

Good find.

It's illegal to shoot people (unless in self defense).

[Blake]

It's illegal to shoot people (unless in self defense).

No, I mean you cannot even transport un-popped firecrackers at all into the city.

[KenMcCoy]

OK, we can limit the sale of guns the way we limit the sale of fireworks.

Now who's moving the goalposts? What happened to limiting guns like we do cars?

[Pavlov]

Now who's moving the goalposts? What happened to limiting guns like we do cars?I didn't move the talk to fireworks -- but here we are.

[KenMcCoy]

No, I mean you cannot even transport un-popped firecrackers at all into the city.

There is no constitutional right to fireworks...cities are allowed to enact these bans.

[pgardn]

You already documented how many people were killed at 400 yards by AR15s.

How many people have been killed at 400 yards by a pillow?

It depends on how crazy the person with a pillow is.

Pillows dont kill people, people kill people. And let us add that pillows would rather not be involved in this mess.