Lowe: Celtics starting point for Leonard likely Tatum and Kings 1st

[Emperor]

If Philly is interested then they could put together a more than competitive offer; something like

Fultz, Saric, Covington, and 10th pick

For Kawhi and Mills

:toast

[Gummi Clutch]

you cucks wanting to pull the trigger...:lol

[palangi]

Leonard isn't coming off a major injury (though, with him every injury is a major injury amirite? :lol)

To be serious, moving a legit top 3 player for last year 3rd pick and Rozier plus the Kings pick (probably around 7th Next year) is Ainge's kind of trade. He gets the best player without giving up all that much to do so.

Th Kings and Grizzlies picks (which both would probably fall into the 7-13 range next year) on top of Rozier and Tatum and Morris ( I think he would have to be included to match up salary) is much more of a fair deal.

Spurs would have three picks next season, to go along with Tatum, Murray, and this year's pick to help the rebuild.

Boston would have a core of Hayward, Horford, Kyrie, Kawhi and Brown too.

If we got Rozier then I would trade murray in a seperate deal and go with Rozier and White as your PG's

[alpha_HaZE]

Not sure, I kinda like picks 12 and 13th from the Clippers, like Bill Simmons suggested, more than Tatum and Kings 1rst. Kawhi was selected at 15th, Donovan Mitchell at 13th, Kuzma, and the list goes on and on. Two top15 picks are better than a top10.

Tatum, doesn't completely fit the pace and space style,..., there's a lot of value in Tatum's one-on-one prowess inside the arc, - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Jayson-Tatum-7249/ ©DraftExpress

It seems to me like another LaMarcus, I understand that Tatum dropped 20+ on Boston today, but trust me LA, would too.

The only player I would trade for Kawhi straight up is Kristaps Porsingis. Because he keeps us competitive, being the ultimate stretch 5 that Spurs tried to pair LA with when they signed Pau to that ridiculous contract last summer. Him and LA would be impossible to guard. This season, we were one top 5 player away from competing for a championship. KP could be that guy next year.

Back to our subject, if we trade Kawhi for non-top5 five players, I am OK with tanking next season and getting a few more high draft picks.

[TD 21]

Think the 76ers would be more likely than the Celtics to give up the requisite pieces.

Unless they're confident in Fultz being able to re-build his stroke and becoming a competent shooter in the off season, the awkwardness of that situation isn't going away anytime soon. Brown will not play him next to Simmons otherwise, which means he'll be limited to competing with McConnell to backing him up.

He's also the key to them becoming perennial contenders. If he can't become what they thought, they're going to be a significant piece short.

The Celtics have no such issues. Their pieces fit now and the only thing that might prevent them from become perennial contenders, is the absence of a top 5 or even 10 player (though Irving is a top 5 ISO scorer).

Fultz, Covington, 10, is interesting. 3 options: 1) Retain all 3 assets. 2) If he's available at 10, select Mikal Bridges and look to package Covington and Murray for something. 3) Look to package 10 and 18 and move up.

[TheGreatYacht]

Think the 76ers would be more likely than the Celtics to give up the requisite pieces.

Unless they're confident in Fultz being able to re-build his stroke and becoming a competent shooter in the off season, the awkwardness of that situation isn't going away anytime soon. Brown will not play him next to Simmons otherwise, which means he'll be limited to competing with McConnell to backing him up.

He's also the key to them becoming perennial contenders. If he can't become what they thought, they're going to be a significant piece short.

The Celtics have no such issues. Their pieces fit now and the only thing that might prevent them from become perennial contenders, is the absence of a top 5 or even 10 player (though Irving is a top 5 ISO scorer).

Fultz, Covington, 10, is interesting. 3 options: 1) Retain all 3 assets. 2) If he's available at 10, select Mikhail Bridges and look to package Covington and Murray for something. 3) Look to package 10 and 18 and move up.
Agree 100%. Even on the draft pick, Mikal Bridges. That's our guy.

[mystargtr34]

Gotta remember Rozier shot under 40% from the field in the regular season.. and he's already 24 this year. Has had a great playoffs at home though.

If we were to send Kawhi to Boston imo you need at least one of Tatum/Brown + Rozier + best 1st rd pick the Celts and possibly another late 1st.

[Chinook]

Yeah Rozier sucks dick. If he has value, let it be as part of a three-team trade to a team like Phoenix for the MKE pick.

[MoSpur02]

They're not going to trade Rozier, Brown, Tatum, and their draft pick. I prefer Tatum, Brown, and their pick only because I believe Murray and White are going to improve. Unless the Spurs send White and Mills then yeah they might send Rozier, but I seriously doubt that.

[r0drig0lac]

There is also this theory that Brad Stevens is making Tatum/Brown/Rozier look better than they are..I would be actually weary to trade a healthy Kawhi for one of these dudes to be coached by 2018 Poop :lol..

yeah, it's a stupid theory anyway, sure that stevens is not putting 7-9 3pt in a playoff game

[phxspurfan]

Tatum/Brown + Rozier + best 1st rd pick the Celts and possibly another late 1st.

Not getting anything close to that package without us giving up more players like S&T Green, give up Murray etc

[cjw]

Rosier has only one more year before he’s a RFA and is already a bit older (actually about White’s age). It’s fools gold right now - you don’t want yet another 6’2” player in the fold. Especially one who shoots 40% from two. He doesn’t move the needle in a Kawhi trade. Spurs would rather have Murray and White. Brown and Tatum are far more interesting pieces given how the league is trending.

To the guy who said they’d take the 12th and 13th picks over a potential top 5 Sacramento pick plus Tatum - that’s nuts. You pray that guys like Tatum fall to you in that range. The Clippers don’t have the assets to make a deal work - does Harris + 12 + 13 do it? I do agree that first round picks on rookie deals are super valuable, but you have to draft well.

The Lakers package is trash. The Spurs won’t touch Ball, and the only other positive trade chip is Ingram.

If the Spurs in fact are going to trade Kawhi, you have to hope to spring Philly and Boston into a bidding war. By the way, a trade with the Spurs almost certainly means Covington and Fultz are unloaded and if the prize is Lebron coming to Philly and he demands you bring in Kawhi, you move anyone other than Simmons and Embiid.

[MoSpur02]

Rozier's stock is going up because of how he's been playing lately, however, I'm still not trading Kawhi to Boston unless it's for Brown, Tatum, and their pick.

[CGD]

Stop with the Rozier bullshit already. I do NOT want to be the team that has to pay his next deal.

Spurs need to insist on Tatum, Brown, and Kings pick, and have Ainge propose an alternative (e.g., Player and two picks).

[BackHome]

I have a feeling it’s going to be Philly Kiwi knows the coach and they have a ton of good players and draft picks. I actually think we could move Kawhi and Mills they need outside shooters and Mills would be perfect coming off the bench

[CGD]

I have a feeling it’s going to be Philly Kiwi knows the coach and they have a ton of good players and draft picks. I actually think we could move Kawhi and Mills they need outside shooters and Mills would be perfect coming off the bench

I agree actually— i also see Philly as a Danny free agent destination by the way.

Deal around Fultz (who they have to move with Simmons, right?) + Saric + 10 + Convington’s salary seems appealing. Maybe we get a 2nd (they own 38, 39 and 56) or Bolden/AP for Kyle.

Starting:
Fultz
Convington
[FA/pick]
Saric
LMA

Then I’d shop 18 + Murray to seeing i can move up.

[MoSpur02]

Outside of Sairic and there pick there is no one on their roster I'd move Kawhi for.

[cd021]

Where did this Tatum + Brown+ Kings pick nonsense get started? I just can't see Boston moving both of them in a Kawhi trade.

The Memphis and Kings picks plus Tatum is probably more likely, considering that Boston know what they have in Brown and the two likely lottery picks are obviously unknown.

[cd021]

Outside of Sairic and there pick there is no one on their roster I'd move Kawhi for.

Saric, Covington, Fultz, 10 pick and maybe Parsecniks is a very good offer tbh.

[CGD]

Where did this Tatum + Brown+ Kings pick nonsense get started? I just can't see Boston moving both of them in a Kawhi trade.

The Memphis and Kings picks plus Tatum is probably more likely, considering that Boston know what they have in Brown and the two likely lottery picks are obviously unknown.

It started before the playoffs when they weren’t really known outside of BOS. I think Tatum and those two picks would be good.

[CGD]

Saric, Covington, Fultz, 10 pick and maybe Parsecniks is a very good offer tbh.

Agree, plus we can move on from Patty. Then You have flexibility to package Murray and 18 for something.

[cool cat]

Gotta remember Rozier shot under 40% from the field in the regular season.. and he's already 24 this year. Has had a great playoffs at home though.

If we were to send Kawhi to Boston imo you need at least one of Tatum/Brown + Rozier + best 1st rd pick the Celts and possibly another late 1st.

I would rather get Tatum and Brown. Rozier is good but PG are dime a dozen in the league and not really a game changer. Look, Warriors have top 3 PG and won without him, OKC have a top 3 PG and can't win with him.

Kerr even said as great as Curry is Durant is more important, size matters.
"There's a different level of impact that's actually possible for Steph and for KD," Kerr explained. "Steph is my size, he's literally exactly my size. So what he's capable of is all based on his amazing skill.
"In the playoffs especially, when you're having to protect the rim and do so many different things, there has to be a level of physicality that factors in when you're having these kind of conversations about who is the best player in the league.
"And that's why LeBron is there, that's why Kawhi (Leonard) is there, that's why KD is there. That combination of skill and physical sheer force."

Again I would rather have the size of Tatum and Brown vs any PG.

[DPG21920]

I would kill for Tatum and Brown if Kawhi has to be moved. That would be fantastic.

[SuperCam]

I would kill for Tatum and Brown if Kawhi has to be moved. That would be fantastic.


spurfan bubble. that package has 0 percent chance of ever happening :lol

[DPG21920]

spurfan bubble. that package has 0 percent chance of ever happening :lol

I would probably agree as things currently stand. If Kawhi signs some type of extension though knowing it will be for him to be traded?

[SuperCam]

I would probably agree as things currently stand. If Kawhi signs some type of extension though knowing it will be for him to be traded?


Ainge the stingy mormon is not trading two cost controlled assets for Kiwi and his health issues on a max, never going to happen. PATFO will be offered Brown and their 2019 SAC pick at best tbh...

[BatManu20]

Zero chance both Tatum and Brown are included in a potential deal with Boston imo. It’d likely be Brown + Rozier + picks as the initial offer from Ainge. Then RC would conter-offer with a demand for Tatum + Rozier OR Morris (to match salaries) + 2 Lotto picks.

[DPG21920]

Just make a team eat Pau’s deal please. That’s my only request.

[mo7888]

Zero chance both Tatum and Brown are included in a potential deal with Boston imo. It’d likely be Brown + Rozier + picks as the initial offer from Ainge. Then RC would conter-offer with a demand for Tatum + Rozier OR Morris (to match salaries) + 2 Lotto picks.

I think the Boston offer will either have Hayward or horford in it. Boston won't pay Hayward, horford, Kawhi, and kyrie.

[DAF86]

Just make a team eat Pau’s deal please. That’s my only request.

Problem is how do you manage to match, both, Kawhi and Pau's salaries?

[mo7888]

Problem is how do you manage to match, both, Kawhi and Pau's salaries?

Kawhi and pau for Hayward and either Tatum or Brown works with the cap.

[DPG21920]

Problem is how do you manage to match, both, Kawhi and Pau's salaries?

There are several teams with enough cap space to absorb Kawhi/Pau while sending out much less salary. Or even someone close to Pau’s annual, but on a one year deal.

[DAF86]

There are several teams with enough cap space to absorb Kawhi/Pau while sending out much less salary. Or even someone close to Pau’s annual, but on a one year deal.

Do those teams also have the necessary assets for a Kawhi deal?

[TheGreatYacht]

Spurfan demanding Tatum, Brown, AND a pick?!?! :lmao

You'll get Rozier & Morris and you'll love it.

[DPG21920]

Do those teams also have the necessary assets for a Kawhi deal?

I think part of the assets are being able to absorb a bad contract, but yes. PHI has assets and cap space. Lakers have some assets and lots of cap space. Suns maybe (possible first pick as the asset).

I mean, it’s not a lot of teams, but PHI and LAL for sure do.

[cd021]

Agree, plus we can move on from Patty. Then You have flexibility to package Murray and 18 for something.

No to packaging Murray and 18, doesn't make a lot of sense tbh

[mo7888]

No to packaging Murray and 18, doesn't make a lot of sense tbh

Just depends on what you're getting back.

[YGWHI]

Some guys here "Kawhi's quad is fucked, he will never be the same player, Spurs can't give him a super-max deal"

Celtics' offer: Smart + Morris + Ojelele for him.

The same guys here "But but this isn't enough, he's still a top 5 player..."

If fans think his injury is an issue I wonder how a GM like Ainge wouldn't think the same...Many teams will try to lowball the Spurs this offseason, C's included.

[goliath]

I have a feeling it’s going to be Philly Kiwi knows the coach and they have a ton of good players and draft picks. I actually think we could move Kawhi and Mills they need outside shooters and Mills would be perfect coming off the bench

On the Lowe post podcast, Ramona shelburn states that the doctor Kawhi is using for his rehab in New York has connections with the Philadelphia 76ers and, while not the team doctor, is a specialist that the team uses

[DPG21920]

Some guys here "Kawhi's quad is fucked, he will never be the same player, Spurs can't give him a super-max deal"

Celtics' offer: Smart + Morris + Ojelele for him.

The same guys here "But but this isn't enough, he's still a top 5 player..."

If fans think his injury is an issue I wonder how a GM like Ainge wouldn't think the same...Many teams will try to lowball the Spurs this offseason, C's included.

If fans and GM’s thought the same the league would look a lot different :lol

[cd021]

Just depends on what you're getting back.

Murray and Fultz would be the future starting back court with Saric as the 4 and the 10th and 18th picks to potential take a 5 or a wing. If Parsecniks is apart of a deal for Kawhi then he projects as a possible modern starting center.

I would prefer that scenario more.

[DAF86]

Murray and Fultz would be the future starting back court with Saric as the 4 and the 10th and 18th picks to potential take a 5 or a wing. If Parsecniks is apart of a deal for Kawhi then he projects as a possible modern starting center.

I would prefer that scenario more.

A Murray/Fultz backcourt would suck major ass.

[DPG21920]

A Murray/Fultz backcourt would suck major ass.

Fultz was a damn good shooter in college; have no idea what happened. If he can regain his shot then he still has a chance to be damn good. But it’s a crazy situation. Never seen anything like it

[cd021]

I agree actually— i also see Philly as a Danny free agent destination by the way.

Deal around Fultz (who they have to move with Simmons, right?) + Saric + 10 + Convington’s salary seems appealing. Maybe we get a 2nd (they own 38, 39 and 56) or Bolden/AP for Kyle.

Starting:
Fultz
Convington
[FA/pick]
Saric
LMA

Then I’d shop 18 + Murray to seeing i can move up.




Covington could be a useful trade chip in the future but I would prefer this roster a lot more;


Fultz, Murray, Covington, Saric, LMA

Parker, Manu*, Green, Gay, Gasol

White, Anderson, 10th pick, 18th pick, Bertans

* If Manu retires, then Parker, Green, Anderson, Gay, and Gasol as the bench rotation

[cd021]

A Murray/Fultz backcourt would suck major ass.

Probably wouldn't be good next season but In the future would be an ideal tandem. Fultz was considering to one of the better shooters in the draft but had a shoulder surgery that had caused issues with his form. He is still a really good prospect though

[Ice009]

Fultz was a damn good shooter in college; have no idea what happened. If he can regain his shot then he still has a chance to be damn good. But it’s a crazy situation. Never seen anything like it

What exactly happened? I don't know anything about the situation. Did he damage his shoulder to the point where he hasn't/can't seem to regain his shot? Someone mentioned it's a mental thing? I didn't follow Philly during the regular season much.

[cd021]

What exactly happened? I don't know anything about the situation. Did he damage his shoulder to the point where he hasn't/can't seem to regain his shot? Someone mentioned it's a mental thing? I didn't follow Philly during the regular season much.

Probably both, apparently.

[DPG21920]

What exactly happened? I don't know anything about the situation. Did he damage his shoulder to the point where he hasn't/can't seem to regain his shot? Someone mentioned it's a mental thing? I didn't follow Philly during the regular season much.

:lol Honestly I followed it and still dont’ know. I think it’s both, but he literally forgot how to shoot. He supposedly was working on “changing his form” and that messed everything up then the injury happened and made it worse. It’s like when a catcher in baseball can’t throw the ball back to the pitcher.

[DPG21920]

I mean, BOS is much more attractive. I would rather have Brown or Tatum over Fultz/Saric and the Kings pick looks to be better than PHI pick.

PHI can absorb Mills or Pau though

[MoSpur02]

People thinking that a potential Kawhi trade to Philly for a package including Fultz is good is confusing to me. Fultz's situation is just as mysterious as Kawhi's situation.

Fultz supposedly started working on tweaking his jumper before the season and apparently that missed up his jump shot altogether. Then the Sixers made a statement that Fultz couldn't even raise his shoulder. It's as much as a mystery as Kawhi's. No one really knows I don't think except for Fultz & the Sixers as to what really happened to Fultz's jumper. Personally I think his jumper was just fine outta college.

[DPG21920]

People thinking that a potential Kawhi trade to Philly for a package including Fultz is good is confusing to me. Fultz's situation is just as mysterious as Kawhi's situation.

Fultz supposedly started working on tweaking his jumper before the season and apparently that missed up his jump shot altogether. Then the Sixers made a statement that Fultz couldn't even raise his shoulder. It's as much as a mystery as Kawhi's. No one really knows I don't think except for Fultz & the Sixers as to what really happened to Fultz's jumper. Personally I think his jumper was just fine outta college.

I mean, Fultz did come back already so that is different than Kawhi :lol and he had a triple double, but yeah. I agree overall.

Im really hoping someone like PHX takes a wild swing for Kawhi and gives up the number one pick or something if it comes to that.

The Fultz type deal reminds me of Paul George to OKC. Looks meh on paper but there is potential like Dipo blowing up and maybe Fultz can do that.

[YGWHI]

If fans and GM’s thought the same the league would look a lot different :lol
This is true :lol

However, people here are expecting too much in a trade for an injured player who "won't ever play at high level again". They should lower their expectations about the pieces the Spurs could get...

[DPG21920]

Well if we are to believe Kawhi and his camp, Kawhi is close to full 100%..

[Clipper Nation]

Well if we are to believe Kawhi and his camp, Kawhi is close to full 100%..

The missed season and the word "degenerative" being applied to his injury say otherwise.

[YGWHI]

Well if we are to believe Kawhi and his camp, Kawhi is close to full 100%..
GMs would wonder if he's close to be completely healthy why the Spurs don't offer him the supermax...

[Kawhitstorm]

I would trade Kawhi for Brad Stevens straight up :lol..

Pop would bench him in favor of Patty

[JP le Requin]

Tatum has in my opinion a "spurs spirit" and i bet he will become a TOP 5 NBA PLAYERS !
Tatum + ROzier + DP for Kawhi i could be OK but really sad to loose KL

Murray could play SG instead PG and switch some times with Rozier.. we will get a spurs team which can switch players / positions easily, and play small ball ..

But wee need a défensive and athlétique center... maybe with the DP..or trading green, patty?

and please lets trade Pau...

[MaNu4Tres]

People thinking that a potential Kawhi trade to Philly for a package including Fultz is good is confusing to me. Fultz's situation is just as mysterious as Kawhi's situation.

Fultz supposedly started working on tweaking his jumper before the season and apparently that missed up his jump shot altogether. Then the Sixers made a statement that Fultz couldn't even raise his shoulder. It's as much as a mystery as Kawhi's. No one really knows I don't think except for Fultz & the Sixers as to what really happened to Fultz's jumper. Personally I think his jumper was just fine outta college.

Co sign. I do not want Fultz.

Tatum
Brown
Ingram
Kuzma
>>>>
Fultz


I do not know why some are so high on him.

[Ice009]

Thanks for the info on Fultz.

If you guys say he was a good shooter in college, why the heck did he change it? Was it his own idea or was in the Sixers that pushed him into changing it?

[DPG21920]

GMs would wonder if he's close to be completely healthy why the Spurs don't offer him the supermax...

Because the relationship is frayed?

[cd021]

Zero chance both Tatum and Brown are included in a potential deal with Boston imo. It’d likely be Brown + Rozier + picks as the initial offer from Ainge. Then RC would conter-offer with a demand for Tatum + Rozier OR Morris (to match salaries) + 2 Lotto picks.

Think it actually has to be Tatum, Rozier and Morris to make the math work for Kawhi but I agree that Ainge balks at Brown and Tatum but would be more willing to add the Grizzlies pick to the Kings pick.

[DPG21920]

Pop would bench him in favor of Patty


Thanks for the info on Fultz.

If you guys say he was a good shooter in college, why the heck did he change it? Was it his own idea or was in the Sixers that pushed him into changing it?

That’s the 1M dollar question. From what I’ve seen/read it appears he was working with his normal shooting coach in the off season (not a team person) and that is who was working on the change in form, but even that has been somewhat disputed.

There is a crazy good (long) article on it; I’ll try to find it.

[exstatic]

Think it actually has to be Tatum, Rozier and Morris to make the math work for Kawhi but I agree that Ainge balks at Brown and Tatum but would be more willing to add the Grizzlies pick to the Kings pick.

There will have to be a third team, then. Morris and his twin are nothing but trouble, and no one Pop would want on the roster.

[mo7888]

Think it actually has to be Tatum, Rozier and Morris to make the math work for Kawhi but I agree that Ainge balks at Brown and Tatum but would be more willing to add the Grizzlies pick to the Kings pick.

Boston ownership is not paying the max to Kawhi, Kyrie, and Hayward along with 27M for Horford. One of those guys is going out if they trade for Kawhi.

[exstatic]

Boston ownership is not paying the max to Kawhi, Kyrie, and Hayward along with 27M for Horford. One of those guys is going out if they trade for Kawhi.

Horford coming this direction, Patty and Pau that direction. The overall post-trade money remaining is close, 54 us/62 them and it allows Boston to smooth their cap by stretching Pau's remaining $6M after this coming season. Instead of 2 years/$54M with Horford, they get 26M/12M/12M/12m. If they don't stretch him, the could just outright cut him, and it would be 26M/16M/10M/10M.

[cd021]

Boston ownership is not paying the max to Kawhi, Kyrie, and Hayward along with 27M for Horford. One of those guys is going out if they trade for Kawhi.


Horford coming this direction, Patty and Pau that direction. The overall post-trade money remaining is close, 54 us/62 them and it allows Boston to smooth their cap by stretching Pau's remaining $6M after this coming season. Instead of 2 years/$54M with Horford, they get 26M/12M/12M/12m. If they don't stretch him, the could just outright cut him, and it would be 26M/16M/10M/10M.

I'm not sure that works out for the Spurs at all. Hordford and Aldridge would combine to make $56 million 19-20.

Pau+Mills+ Kawhi along with Brown, Morris, Hayward, and Kyrie would cost the Celtics at least $122 million, probably closer to $130 million and even if they stretch Pau and let Morris walk that's still a pretty big payroll.

If Boston has too, I'm sure that they'd be fine ponying up for a team that has Kawhi, Kyrie, Hayward, and Horford + Brown - with Lebron probably walk, they could dominate the east for six or seven years at least, easy.


A three team deal is probably the best bet;

Boston Get

Kawhi

Spurs Get

Rozier
Tatum
2019 Kings Pick (probably ends up being in the 6-9 range)
2019 Grizzlies Pick (probably ends up being in the 9-14 range)

Third Team Gets
Marcus Morris

[Hoops Czar]

I'm not sure that works out for the Spurs at all. Hordford and Aldridge would combine to make $56 million 19-20.

Pau+Mills+ Kawhi along with Brown, Morris, Hayward, and Kyrie would cost the Celtics at least $122 million, probably closer to $130 million and even if they stretch Pau and let Morris walk that's still a pretty big payroll.

A three team deal is probably the best bet;

Boston Get

Kawhi

Spurs Get

Rozier
Tatum
2019 Kings Pick (probably ends up being in the 6-9 range)
2019 Grizzlies Pick (probably ends up being in the 9-14 range)

Third Team Gets
Marcus Morris

Boston would need to have their heads examined to make that trade for a player with a chronic degenerative condition. This is the same team that traded IT because they were worried about the long term implications of his hip injury.

[TD 21]

Tatum is the best combination of high ceiling/floor of the bunch, but if Fultz can overcome the mental block (and/or mysterious structural shoulder issue) he appears to have developed, which led to his jumper becoming broken, he has the highest ceiling.

Tatum appears to be a virtual lock to be, if not an elite scorer, in the next tier. Fultz could conceivably become that, with elite breakdown ability. Those two things in tandem, along with elite physical tools, are the stuff of superstars.

Not saying he becomes that, but it's within' the realm of possibilities. Clearly, he'd be an immense risk though and if he went bust, more than likely so too would the trade.

Under no realistic circumstances could I see Murray being a fit next to him. Even if he becomes at least a competent shooter, his best skill will likely always be his breakdown ability, which means being ball dominant and paired in the back court with a plus shooter.

[MoSpur02]

Tatum is the best combination of high ceiling/floor of the bunch, but if Fultz can overcome the mental block (and/or mysterious structural shoulder issue) he appears to have developed, which led to his jumper becoming broken, he has the highest ceiling.

Tatum appears to be a virtual lock to be, if not an elite scorer, in the next tier. Fultz could conceivably become that, with elite breakdown ability. Those two things in tandem, along with elite physical tools, are the stuff of superstars.

Not saying he becomes that, but it's within' the realm of possibilities. Clearly, he'd be an immense risk though and if he went bust, more than likely so too would the trade.

Under no realistic circumstances could I see Murray being a fit next to him. Even if he becomes at least a competent shooter, his best skill will likely always be his breakdown ability, which means being ball dominant and paired in the back court with a plus shooter.

I would not trade for Fultz. Not saying he doesn't have the potential to be great, but you are taking a huge risk if you trade for him. You take the sure thing in Tatum or Brown.

[MoSpur02]

Tatum is the best combination of high ceiling/floor of the bunch, but if Fultz can overcome the mental block (and/or mysterious structural shoulder issue) he appears to have developed, which led to his jumper becoming broken, he has the highest ceiling.

Tatum appears to be a virtual lock to be, if not an elite scorer, in the next tier. Fultz could conceivably become that, with elite breakdown ability. Those two things in tandem, along with elite physical tools, are the stuff of superstars.

Not saying he becomes that, but it's within' the realm of possibilities. Clearly, he'd be an immense risk though and if he went bust, more than likely so too would the trade.

Under no realistic circumstances could I see Murray being a fit next to him. Even if he becomes at least a competent shooter, his best skill will likely always be his breakdown ability, which means being ball dominant and paired in the back court with a plus shooter.

Now if they want Mills and are willing to give us Fultz then yeah you do it. Mills' shot is just as broken as Fultz. :lol

[cd021]

Boston would need to have their heads examined to make that trade for a player with a chronic degenerative condition. This is the same team that traded IT because they were worried about the long term implications of his hip injury.

Yeah but they traded for Kyrie, who's injury history is worse than both Kawhi and IT. They value talent and are willing to take risks.

Trading Tatum and two of their five 1st rounders (between this draft and next draft) is a medium risk, high reward for the Celtics.

[cool cat]

Boston would need to have their heads examined to make that trade for a player with a chronic degenerative condition. This is the same team that traded IT because they were worried about the long term implications of his hip injury.

They traded IT because they got a major upgrade with Kyrie.

[cd021]

I would not trade for Fultz. Not saying he doesn't have the potential to be great, but you are taking a huge risk if you trade for him. You take the sure thing in Tatum or Brown.


Now if they want Mills and are willing to give us Fultz then yeah you do it. Mills' shot is just as broken as Fultz. :lol

I don't think Fultz shot is broken tbh and if Phily were offering Fultz, Covington, Saric, 10th pick and maybe Parseniks then that is a pretty strong offer.

Fultz has high upside but does come with risk, though he could fit nicely with Murray, add that to Saric and the 10th pick plus Covington would be a good return but the safer return would probably be Tatum, the Kings and Grizzlies pick.

[TD 21]

I would not trade for Fultz. Not saying he doesn't have the potential to be great, but you are taking a huge risk if you trade for him. You take the sure thing in Tatum or Brown.

I'd probably do the same (pending the remainder of each package), but then we don't have access to what they could glean, in terms of what really happened with Fultz and the likelihood of it being a blip in his career.



Now if they want Mills and are willing to give us Fultz then yeah you do it. Mills' shot is just as broken as Fultz. :lol

Considering the magnitude of this, Mills' contract wouldn't influence them into taking what they deem an inferior package. Besides, with the team more than likely skewing younger, they'd probably feel his intangibles would be even more important than they already believe.

[mo7888]

I'm not sure that works out for the Spurs at all. Hordford and Aldridge would combine to make $56 million 19-20.

Pau+Mills+ Kawhi along with Brown, Morris, Hayward, and Kyrie would cost the Celtics at least $122 million, probably closer to $130 million and even if they stretch Pau and let Morris walk that's still a pretty big payroll.

If Boston has too, I'm sure that they'd be fine ponying up for a team that has Kawhi, Kyrie, Hayward, and Horford + Brown - with Lebron probably walk, they could dominate the east for six or seven years at least, easy.


A three team deal is probably the best bet;

Boston Get

Kawhi

Spurs Get

Rozier
Tatum
2019 Kings Pick (probably ends up being in the 6-9 range)
2019 Grizzlies Pick (probably ends up being in the 9-14 range)

Third Team Gets
Marcus Morris

It's a solid offer but, if Boston did that they'd be paying over 120M for 4 players with kawhi and kyrie's extensions. 1 year later brown goes on for a new contract. You're talking 140M for 5 players if they let everybody else walk and fill it out with all minimum contracts. I don't see them doing that. I don't think we would take horford either. I think Hayward + Tatum or Brown would be the centerpiece of their offer.

I do like the Philly scenario you mentioned as well. I probably like it better actually. Fultz is a risk but having saric and the 10th pick mitigates it.

[cjw]

Yeah but they traded for Kyrie, who's injury history is worse than both Kawhi and IT. They value talent and are willing to take risks.

Trading Tatum and two of their five 1st rounders (between this draft and next draft) is a medium risk, high reward for the Celtics.

Not to mention IT is a midget and unplayable defensively in a real series.

[Play Boban]

Not to mention IT is a midget and unplayable defensively in a real series.
Yeah, but he’s still taller than the average resident of San Antonio. :lol

[weebo]

The entire 76's & C's starting rosters for KL.

[MaNu4Tres]

I'd probably do the same (pending the remainder of each package), but then we don't have access to what they could glean, in terms of what really happened with Fultz and the likelihood of it being a blip in his career.




Considering the magnitude of this, Mills' contract wouldn't influence them into taking what they deem an inferior package. Besides, with the team more than likely skewing younger, they'd probably feel his intangibles would be even more important than they already believe.

Brown, Tatum,Ingram, Kuz all have a higher overall ceiling than Fultz ( on both ends) imo.

[DPG21920]

I would not trade for Fultz. Not saying he doesn't have the potential to be great, but you are taking a huge risk if you trade for him. You take the sure thing in Tatum or Brown.

Depends on how this all transpires. SA may have to take a Paul George package and hope for the best. Not ideal, but might be what it comes down to.

I want PHX to get desperate and give up Jackson + #1 pick (most likely)

[DPG21920]

Also not that it matters in the context of getting the player SA wants (meaning this variable doesn’t change things if SA like Tatum better than Fultz) but PHI is so much easier to deal with. Not just becaue of the relationship but PHI having so much cap space means they can send back much less salary and with Kawhi going out possibly plus Danny/Rudy opting out SA could have immediate cap space as well in that type of deal.

Just an added bonus of a PHI deal.

[gambit1990]

i know kawhi got cleared to play during the season by the spurs... did they ever change his status after that?

i worry he could come back next year... and then miss time again for the same reason.

if the spurs trade him they should send him east.

healthy kawhi would be the best player in the league over the next few years ...

[DPG21920]

i know kawhi got cleared to play during the season by the spurs... did they ever change his status after that?

i worry he could come back next year... and then miss time again for the same reason.

if the spurs trade him they should send him east.

healthy kawhi would be the best player in the league over the next few years ...

He was cleared and stayed cleared by the Spurs team. He was not cleared by his own doctors that had been apparently in control of the rehab process for 8 months now.

[cd021]

It's a solid offer but, if Boston did that they'd be paying over 120M for 4 players with kawhi and kyrie's extensions. 1 year later brown goes on for a new contract. You're talking 140M for 5 players if they let everybody else walk and fill it out with all minimum contracts. I don't see them doing that. I don't think we would take horford either. I think Hayward + Tatum or Brown would be the centerpiece of their offer.

I do like the Philly scenario you mentioned as well. I probably like it better actually. Fultz is a risk but having saric and the 10th pick mitigates it.

No chance that they would offer up Hayward. they wooed him away from Utah and then 5 minutes into his Boston career he has the worst injury if his career, not to mention the Brad Stevens connection.

I agree that. Spurs would have little interest in Horford, mostly because of his massive $58 million remaining on his deal (LA and Horford would combine to make $56 million during the 19-20 season, on top of Murray's extension)

The best option would be to find a third team for Horford but then they have a gaping hole at PF/C so that doesn't make sense either.

[Robz4000]

No chance that they would offer up Hayward. they wooed him away from Utah and then 5 minutes into his Boston career he has the worst injury if his career, not to mention the Brad Stevens connection.

I agree that. Spurs would have little interest in Horford, mostly because of his massive $58 million remaining on his deal (LA and Horford would combine to make $56 million during the 19-20 season, on top of Murray's extension)

The best option would be to find a third team for Horford but then they have a gaping hole at PF/C so that doesn't make sense either.

Don't count out Ainge doing that. IT played on one leg throughout the postseason last year (and supposedly had an injury before that one) and was beloved by the Boston fanbase, yet Ainge sent him out without a second thought. Hayward has no such ties with the city nor has any court chemistry with the actual team. Actually wouldn't be shocked if he'd rather trade him than Brown or Tatum.

[TD 21]

Brown, Tatum,Ingram, Kuz all have a higher overall ceiling than Fultz ( on both ends) imo.

I'm willing to listen to an argument for Tatum and Brown, but not Ingram and definitely not Kuzma (played his rookie season at 22).

[MaNu4Tres]

I'm willing to listen to an argument for Tatum and Brown, but not Ingram and definitely not Kuzma (played his rookie season at 22).

Wings with length that can defend 3-4 positions, can shoot, and put the ball in the basket in a multitude of ways are the most valuable type of players in the NBA.

Unless you think Fultz will have Curry, Kyrie, Westbrook type of ability and impact, I wouldn't take Fultz over any of those 4 guys. I don't see him projecting to have THAT type of game.

The Spurs need more quality length on the perimeter to pair w Murray/White.They don't need to.overlap their best assets at the combo guard imo.

[toki9]

I want PHX to get desperate and give up Jackson + #1 pick (most likely)

Maybe Sarver would jump at the chance of finally taking advantage of the Spurs? But, yeah, PHI might be the most practical partner in all this (maybe the Colangelos would jump at the chance of finally taking advantage of the Spurs?) given Brett Brown connection and the doctor connection. This whole thing is just a big mess. There doesn't seem to be many (any?) good options for the Spurs; they're in a bad spot.

[dbestpro]

Most likely scenario is teams will try to low ball SA. LA will think they will get him anyway so why not wait. SA will hold onto him until he walks. The front office believes they created Kawhi, and he would not be the player he is without them. They believe they can do the same with someone else, and that will be that.

[SpursforSix]

Most likely scenario is teams will try to low ball SA. LA will think they will get him anyway so why not wait. SA will hold onto him until he walks. The front office believes they created Kawhi, and he would not be the player he is without them. They believe they can do the same with someone else, and that will be that.

I don't think teams will low ball SA. There should be enough bidders that will keep the price high for KL.

[CGD]

I don't think teams will low ball SA. There should be enough bidders that will keep the price high for KL.

I can see LAL and BOS trying to lowball, but i can see LAC being agressive. That’s all you need for a bidding war to start.

[SpursforSix]

I can see LAL and BOS trying to lowball, but i can see LAC being agressive. That’s all you need for a bidding war to start.

Yep. I just hope Leonard (or his uncle) sabotages the process with comments.

[CGD]

I’m starting to like idea of Philly over over Boston. Ainge is going to do what he always does and overvalue his assets, especially after this run. Let’s just pouch Brown in a few years when they have a massive payroll and are going to be in a pinch :-)

Package around:

Faultz+Saric+10 >
Brown + Kings Pick next year

Teams can also swap Covington and Mills if so desired.

[exstatic]

Most likely scenario is teams will try to low ball SA. LA will think they will get him anyway so why not wait. SA will hold onto him until he walks. The front office believes they created Kawhi, and he would not be the player he is without them. They believe they can do the same with someone else, and that will be that.

What is 'NO' for $500 Alex? Are you fucking crazy? You absolutely do NOT let him fucking walk for nothing.

[exstatic]

I can see LAL and BOS trying to lowball, but i can see LAC being agressive. That’s all you need for a bidding war to start.

Exactly. I've seen SO many posts about how a bunch of teams will low ball us. Folks, when a bunch of entities are involved in trying to acquire something, someone ALWAYS geeks, and starts the bidding war.

[BillMc]

Any Philly offer must include Simmons or it ain't worth it.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

What is 'NO' for $500 Alex? Are you fucking crazy? You absolutely do NOT let him fucking walk for nothing.

:lmao seriously

[DPG21920]

Any Philly offer must include Simmons or it ain't worth it.

That is not happening. Fultz deal is like the Dipo deal. Looks meh now but maybe has potential. Agree it’s not that appealing but PHI can eat money too which helps.

[szkorhetz]

Any Philly offer must include Simmons or it ain't worth it.
:lol @ Philly sending us Simmons for this quitter.

[r0drig0lac]

saric + covington + bolden + pick >>>> fultz + covington + pick

[BatManu20]

saric + covington + bolden + pick >>>> fultz + covington + pick

Bolden is a decent prospect but zero chance Spurs wouldn’t demand Fultz in any hypothetical deal. The package would be centered around him and draft pick(s). Other players would be add-ons or to match salaries.

[CGD]

Bolden is a decent prospect but zero chance Spurs wouldn’t demand Fultz in any hypothetical deal. The package would be centered around him and draft pick(s). Other players would be add-ons or to match salaries.

It’d have to be Fultz+Saric+Pick, rest is salary matching/gravy.

[lmbebo]

It’d have to be Fultz+Saric+Pick, rest is salary matching/gravy.


Would want multiple picks ...

[DPG21920]

Why are people so high on Saric? I mean, he’s a nice player still on a good per-year contract, but do people think he’s a star or something?

[r0drig0lac]

Why are people so high on Saric? I mean, he’s a nice player still on a good per-year contract, but do people think he’s a star or something?

one of the best rookies in his first year, who got even better in his sophomore year, he has practically no weakness as a basketball player, and is still improving, his ceilling is still undefined (ex: Oladipo became a star only with 25 years, Saric still has 24)

[cd021]

It’d have to be Fultz+Saric+Pick, rest is salary matching/gravy.


Bolden is a decent prospect but zero chance Spurs wouldn’t demand Fultz in any hypothetical deal. The package would be centered around him and draft pick(s). Other players would be add-ons or to match salaries.


saric + covington + bolden + pick >>>> fultz + covington + pick

As I have said before,
Covington, Saric, Fultz, 10th pick and Parsecniks (25th pick in last year's draft)

Would be a competitive offer, probably only bested by Tatum and the 2019 Kings and Grizzlies picks potential package from Boston

[TD 21]

Wings with length that can defend 3-4 positions, can shoot, and put the ball in the basket in a multitude of ways are the most valuable type of players in the NBA.

Unless you think Fultz will have Curry, Kyrie, Westbrook type of ability and impact, I wouldn't take Fultz over any of those 4 guys. I don't see him projecting to have THAT type of game.

The Spurs need more quality length on the perimeter to pair w Murray/White.They don't need to.overlap their best assets at the combo guard imo.

Sure, if they're superstars. I doubt any of these players become that, but Tatum, Brown and Fultz have star potential. I don't see it with Ingram or Kuzma. They're not automatically superior prospects on the count of being versatile forwards and Fultz being a guard.

Also, Fultz is a big guard (6'4'' 195, with a 6'10'' wingspan), with elite athleticism, so he should have similar defensive versatility to Murray.

If it comes to it, the Spurs need to get the best young talent they can. If they don't think that's Fultz or they feel he's too risky, fair enough. But they won't turn down Fultz because they have Murray. A markedly inferior prospect can't take precedent. If Fultz is who they want, Murray should become expendable.

[MaNu4Tres]

Sure, if they're superstars. I doubt any of these players become that, but Tatum, Brown and Fultz have star potential. I don't see it with Ingram or Kuzma. They're not automatically superior prospects on the count of being versatile forwards and Fultz being a guard.

Also, Fultz is a big guard (6'4'' 195, with a 6'10'' wingspan), with elite athleticism, so he should have similar defensive versatility to Murray.

If it comes to it, the Spurs need to get the best young talent they can. If they don't think that's Fultz or they feel he's too risky, fair enough. But they won't turn down Fultz because they have Murray. A markedly inferior prospect can't take precedent. If Fultz is who they want, Murray should become expendable.

I'd try to flip Fultz for a top 5 pick or to LAC for 12 & 13.

[CGD]

I'd try to flip Fultz for a top 5 pick or to LAC for 12 & 13.

I might keep him, but interesting idea. Not sure about order of operations, but if Doncic is available at the time when ORL picks would they take Fultz to be their PG for the future in exchange for their pick?

[Joseph Kony]

Why are people so high on Saric? I mean, he’s a nice player still on a good per-year contract, but do people think he’s a star or something?
Because he's a good young player on a good deal atm and he would excel here. of the pieces Philly has to offer he would definitely need to be included in any deal imo.

If Green opts in, I would be happy with a Fultz/Saric/Covington + pick deal for Kawhi/Green (preferably mills but i doubt anyone wants that contract)

[CGD]

Why are people so high on Saric? I mean, he’s a nice player still on a good per-year contract, but do people think he’s a star or something?

Dude is solid. Not someone who should headline a deal, but a great peice. Also will become a fan fave in SA

[Clipper Nation]

I'd try to flip Fultz for a top 5 pick or to LAC for 12 & 13.
You are aware that Doc isn't our GM anymore, right?

[cjw]

What is 'NO' for $500 Alex? Are you fucking crazy? You absolutely do NOT let him fucking walk for nothing.

Which team will have cap space that summer anyway? He’d be seriously limited by walking in his choices.

I do think the issue of not being able to extend him if traded at anything close to the max he can get next summer will chill interest though.

[MannyIsGod]

Any Philly offer must include Simmons or it ain't worth it.

LOL they are not trading Simmons.

[MaNu4Tres]

LOL they are not trading Simmons.

It's weird how people can't figure this out.

[FkLA]

Why are people so high on Saric? I mean, he’s a nice player still on a good per-year contract, but do people think he’s a star or something?

Agreed. Have never been a fan. Reminds me of Gallinari. Will probably command way more than he's worth down the line.

[DPG21920]

Im not saying I wouldn’t want him; he’s still cheap for now and an asset. I jus think people here act like he’s a star and he’s not. But he could keep developing some.

[baseline bum]

Exactly. I've seen SO many posts about how a bunch of teams will low ball us. Folks, when a bunch of entities are involved in trying to acquire something, someone ALWAYS geeks, and starts the bidding war.

But Leonard can sabotage that bidding war by claiming he won't sign an extension with anyone but LA. If that's the case I'd suspend him for the season and let him waste a second year of his prime rather than taking some overrated player like Kuzma.

[DPG21920]

But Leonard can sabotage that bidding war by claiming he won't sign an extension with anyone but LA. If that's the case I'd suspend him for the season and let him waste a second year of his prime rather than taking some overrated player like Kuzma.

PG said that and OKC still stepped up.

[SanAntonioSpurs23]

Celtics laugh and hang up the phone if thats the starting point. They arent trading Tatum or Brown.

[exstatic]

But Leonard can sabotage that bidding war by claiming he won't sign an extension with anyone but LA. If that's the case I'd suspend him for the season and let him waste a second year of his prime rather than taking some overrated player like Kuzma.
Hey, everyone, I’m going to shoot myself in the foot by throwing away ANOTHER guaranteed $40M after already pissing away $35M!!

Not exactly a position of strength, bargainingwise. See: Pacers, Indiana.

[baseline bum]

PG said that and OKC still stepped up.

If someone offers the Spurs a couple of players they went then you make the trade obviously. But I'd let him waste away for a year rather than give Leonard what he wants if it doesn't give the Spurs anything useful to build with, which is what I would consider a Kuzma + crap + picks offer.

[exstatic]

Celtics laugh and hang up the phone if thats the starting point. They arent trading Tatum or Brown.

Yes, because they need 4 SFs on their roster...smh.

[baseline bum]

Hey, everyone, I’m going to shoot myself in the foot by throwing away ANOTHER guaranteed $40M after already pissing away $35M!!

Not exactly a position of strength, bargainingwise. See: Pacers, Indiana.

We already know Kawhi and Dennis are morons, not sure why you'd put his group shooting themselves in the foot again past them.

[exstatic]

If someone offers the Spurs a couple of players they went then you make the trade obviously. But I'd let him waste away for a year rather than give Leonard what he wants if it doesn't give the Spurs anything useful to build with, which is what I would consider a Kuzma + crap + picks offer.

I don’t think there’s any universe in the multiverse where Pop trades with the Lakers.

[exstatic]

We already know Kawhi and Dennis are morons, not sure why you'd put his group shooting themselves in the foot again past them.

We agree that they’re morons. My tag line was sarcasm. It’s still not a position of strength.

[baseline bum]

But in the worst case I bet they could pry Kemba Walker out of Charlotte for a one year rental of the autist since I'm sure Jordan could convince Uncle Dennis to make Kawhi stay for that leech's cut of the shoe deal Jordan would throw at him then.

[Mr. Body]

Celtics laugh and hang up the phone if thats the starting point. They arent trading Tatum or Brown.

To get Kawhi? Of course they would trade at least one of them.

[SuperCam]

get Jason Tatum at all costs tbqh

[mo7888]

I hope Cleveland offers a package built around the Brooklyn pick. I think that offer would be the catalyst for Boston and Cleveland making their best offers, even overpaying. A Cleveland team with LeBron and kawhi wins the east for the next 4 years. For all the work Boston and Philly have done to compete for the east, it would all be for naught if kawhi goes to Cleveland. Those two teams have to best Cleveland's offer because they can't afford to let Cleveland get him...even if they have to give up to much to get him.

[hater]

Spurfan demanding Tatum, Brown, AND a pick?!?! :lmao

You'll get Rozier & Morris and you'll love it.

Rosie for kawhi straight up is not even a possibility

Celtics would laught before hanging up on rc :lmao

[jermaine]

Again, remind me why would the Cels wanna give up their young core for a quiter who's uncle can make him do anything!?!

[hater]

Rozie looking like the next coming of Isiah Dumars tbqh

[Ice009]

Rosie for kawhi straight up is not even a possibility

Celtics would laught before hanging up on rc :lmao

Huh? You want to explain that? Are you saying Rozier is playing too well in a small sample size for them to even give up for a top 3 player in the NBA?

The only way I'd want Rozier is if he's attatched to either Tatum, Brown or both. If not, then I just wouldn't deal with the Celtics at all. They can keep them if they value them that highly.

Unless the Celtics win the Championship or at the very least make the Eastern Conference finals and all those guys play great (even if they lose the ECF), I'm not dealing with Ainge if he's going to overvalue them in such a small sample size as we have as of right now, today.

[hater]

Huh? You want to explain that? Are you saying Rozier is playing too well in a small sample size for them to even give up for a top 3 player in the NBA?

The only way I'd want Rozier is if he's attatched to either Tatum, Brown or both. If not, then I just wouldn't deal with the Celtics at all. They can keep them if they value them that highly.

TOP 3???? :lmao Kawhi??

The poor bastard cannot even wipe his own ass for christsakes :lol

All said and done Kawhis is probably top 20 in the league and thats not considering uncle Lavar Leonard


You include unc in the equation and Kawhis is possibly top 40 trade value in the nba

[Mr. Body]

I see no reason to go for Rozier at all unless as a throw-in. Tatum should be the target and is a fair trade at this point. The guy looks like a budding star. If Kawhi is ready to go and will re-sign with the Celtics, this makes Boston pretty incredible -- they're not even playing with Hayward and Kyrie at this point.

The hope is the Spurs can get three to four Atlantic area teams plus perhaps Cleveland bidding -- NYK, Boston, Philly, and possibly the Cavs.

[cd021]

I don’t think there’s any universe in the multiverse where Pop trades with the Lakers.

1. Because they are the Lakers
2. Their assets are mediocre at best.

[spursistan]

Again, remind me why would the Cels wanna give up their young core for a quiter who's uncle can make him do anything!?!
Spurfan bubble :lol

[MannyIsGod]

If someone offers the Spurs a couple of players they went then you make the trade obviously. But I'd let him waste away for a year rather than give Leonard what he wants if it doesn't give the Spurs anything useful to build with, which is what I would consider a Kuzma + crap + picks offer.

Thats just cutting off your nose to spite your face. If the relationship is broken, then get the best you can and move on.

[spursistan]

Why would the ECF-bound Celtics (minus 2 AllStars) even think of trading their best two young prospects for a 6-7 year older injury-prone soft beta with a degenerative quad? :lol

[SuperCam]

not sure spurfan can even hope for Tatum at this point tbqh, not if Kiwi is really growing a bone in his thigh muscle.

[MannyIsGod]

The idea that the Celtics wouldn't trade Brown or Tatum for Kawhi is idiotic. Yes both are good, but neither is anywhere close to a Kawhi level. Even after this year, Kawhi is still way more valuable than either of those 2.

[spursistan]

The idea that the Celtics wouldn't trade Brown or Tatum for Kawhi is idiotic. Yes both are good, but neither is anywhere close to a Kawhi level. Even after this year, Kawhi is still way more valuable than either of those 2.

That's cute in theory..

Kawhi last played 2 consecutive NBA games in April 2017..And that's the mother of all facts right now..

Tatum/Brown are about to lead the Celtics minus two All Stars to the Eastern Conference Finlas. Kawhi, meanwhile, is still rehabbing in NewYork..

[cheguevara]

Why would the ECF-bound Celtics (minus 2 AllStars) even think of trading their best two young prospects for a 6-7 year older injury-prone soft beta with a degenerative quad? :lol

:lmao

[SuperCam]

The idea that the Celtics wouldn't trade Brown or Tatum for Kawhi is idiotic. Yes both are good, but neither is anywhere close to a Kawhi level. Even after this year, Kawhi is still way more valuable than either of those 2.

Ainge ain't moving Tatum for a player whose thigh xrays look like this tbh:

https://3c1703fe8d.site.internapcdn.net/newman/gfx/news/hires/2015/inflammation.jpg

[DPG21920]

If someone offers the Spurs a couple of players they went then you make the trade obviously. But I'd let him waste away for a year rather than give Leonard what he wants if it doesn't give the Spurs anything useful to build with, which is what I would consider a Kuzma + crap + picks offer.

I agree. If SA is getting nothing worthwhile, keep him. But that won’t happen IMO. There will be plenty of teams that would LOVE to add Kawh.

[HarlemHeat37]

Boston's current run is Fool's Gold, but still, why trade these young pieces for a question mark like Kawhi when you already have Kyrie and Hayward in the chamber for next season? It's house money for then, atm, they can easily convince themselves that just adding those 2 guys will make them a real title contender for the foreseeable future..

Seems like a stupid risk for a player coming off a major injury and a potential off-court issue, tbh.

[KDKSpurs24]

The idea that the Celtics wouldn't trade Brown or Tatum for Kawhi is idiotic. Yes both are good, but neither is anywhere close to a Kawhi level. Even after this year, Kawhi is still way more valuable than either of those 2.
Dude cmon... they are so much younger and don’t have an injury or controlling uncle problem.

[DPG21920]

Who knows what the mindset is. Kawhi has value even if it’s somewhat depressed. There are reasons BOS would want to add him even if Hayward and Kyrie are coming back. But there is obvious risk there and who knows their mindset.

[BackHome]

If they get past Philly but get killed in next round that will change everything

[baseline bum]

Thats just cutting off your nose to spite your face. If the relationship is broken, then get the best you can and move on.

Your solution is to bend over and take it if all the Spurs get is a crap offer from LA? If the best you can get is garbage might as well dare Leonard to keep shooting down trades to other teams. Playing hardball can be a two way street.

[baseline bum]

The idea that the Celtics wouldn't trade Brown or Tatum for Kawhi is idiotic. Yes both are good, but neither is anywhere close to a Kawhi level. Even after this year, Kawhi is still way more valuable than either of those 2.

They'd give the Spurs both in a second if they can get Leonard to agree to an extension, assuming his health checks out with their doctors. But if Kawhi is a dick and Boston is taking a chance on a one year rental the Spurs would get neither.

[Mr. Body]

Of course Boston would trade Tatum for Kawhi straight up. That team with Kawhi is ridiculous. The question is what the package is and whether he would re-sign, but Tatum is looking like a good centerpiece for a return.

[SuperCam]

They'd give the Spurs both in a second if they can get Leonard to agree to an extension, assuming his health checks out with their doctors. But if Kawhi is a dick and Boston is taking a chance on a one year rental the Spurs would get neither.


Both? That ship sailed a long time ago, regardless of health. No one outside of Spurfanforum believes there's any chance at all Ainge would move both :lol

[spursistan]

Spurfans are going to be in a rude awakening if/when it becomes known PATFO were lowballed bigtime for Kawhi..

Has it ever happened a player miss nearly an entire year basketball season without going under the knife? yall need to wake the f up. We are closer to Brandon Roy territory with him than somehow recovering to be at an MVP-level again..

[baseline bum]

Both? That ship sailed a long time ago, regardless of health. No one outside of Spurfanforum believes there's any chance at all Ainge would move both :lol

With a four year extension the Spurs should have no problem getting both, though I doubt they'd get any good picks then. What is Boston going to do with four starting level small forwards?

[Clipper Nation]

The idea that the Celtics wouldn't trade Brown or Tatum for Kawhi is idiotic. Yes both are good, but neither is anywhere close to a Kawhi level. Even after this year, Kawhi is still way more valuable than either of those 2.
:lol You clearly have no idea how Ainge negotiates. You'll be lucky to get Rozier from him, let alone either of those two.

[SuperCam]

With a four year extension the Spurs should have no problem getting both, though I doubt they'd get any good picks then. What is Boston going to do with four starting level small forwards?

Ainge will not give away players on all-star level career trajectories on cheap deals for combined 7 remaining years just to pay Kiwi 35 million per tbh. Hayward and one of the young ones would be more like the deal, hayward+tatum or irving+brown perhaps...

[hater]

Spurfans are going to be in a rude awakening if/when it becomes known PATFO were lowballed bigtime for Kawhi..

Has it ever happened a player miss nearly an entire year basketball season without going under the knife? yall need to wake the f up. We are closer to Brandon Roy territory with him than somehow recovering to be at an MVP-level again..

Ma niga with the nuke hypersonic cruise missiles of truth :lmao

[Mr. Body]

Ainge will not give away players on all-star level career trajectories on cheap deals for combined 7 remaining years just to pay Kiwi 35 million per tbh. Hayward and one of the young ones would be more like the deal, hayward+tatum or irving+brown perhaps...

I love how you have lots of ideas what the Celtics won't do but then come up with fucking stupid deals they would offer.

[xtremesteven33]

I'd pull the trigger for Tatum, Rozier and the 1st round pick.

[baseline bum]

Ainge will not give away players on all-star level career trajectories on cheap deals for combined 7 remaining years just to pay Kiwi 35 million per tbh. Hayward and one of the young ones would be more like the deal, hayward+tatum or irving+brown perhaps...

The Celtics aren't trading Hayward. No free agent would ever sign there again if they dumped him off to a rebuilding team after one season.

[DPG21920]

I’m thinking this could be a situation if it gets to that point where it’s some random team. Like how no one saw OKC coming for PG, there might be some team that takes that swing for Kawhi to make a splash.

[offset formation]

Why would the ECF-bound Celtics (minus 2 AllStars) even think of trading their best two young prospects for a 6-7 year older injury-prone soft beta with a degenerative quad? :lol

Becoming a better question by the day, tbqh.

[Mr. Body]

The Celtics aren't trading Hayward. No free agent would ever sign there again if they dumped him off to a rebuilding team after one season.

He makes a ridiculous amount of money, too. I don't see the Spurs swinging for that. He's also a complementary player, and that's not very useful for us.

[offset formation]

https://youtu.be/kfcZ8ukCa9I

This guy thinks it might be the HEB commercials. It's as good a guess as any, tbcfh.

[jermaine]

That shit was dope offset formation. Lol

[TD 21]

It's easy now to say the Celtics wouldn't give up the requisite assets. That should only be further incentive to repair the relationship with Leonard because the 76ers are the only other team that will probably have interest and has the type of disposable assets that should be appealing to the Spurs . . . the problem is, as has been said ad nauseam, Fultz is risky.


I'd try to flip Fultz for a top 5 pick or to LAC for 12 & 13.

Outside of Ayton or Doncic, does anyone else stand out as having star potential? 12 and 13, I wouldn't even consider. It's highly unlikely either pick turns into a star.


I might keep him, but interesting idea. Not sure about order of operations, but if Doncic is available at the time when ORL picks would they take Fultz to be their PG for the future in exchange for their pick?

Yeah, I brought this up recently. I could see the Spurs looking to do this.

[offset formation]

That shit was dope offset formation. Lol

Right? :flag:

[cd021]

I'd pull the trigger for Tatum, Rozier and the 1st round pick.
Yuck.

[MannyIsGod]

Your solution is to bend over and take it if all the Spurs get is a crap offer from LA? If the best you can get is garbage might as well dare Leonard to keep shooting down trades to other teams. Playing hardball can be a two way street.

You make the best trade you can because that is better than getting nothing. I don't care who it is to, but there is no worse outcome than Kawhi leaving and getting nothing so you obviously don't chose that one. I didn't say anything about taking the first offer or not playing hardball. But when push comes to shove, you move him for the best offer if you feel you the situation is broken.

How is this even debateable? Trading Kawhi for nothing more than a 2nd round draft pick is better than him just leaving via free agency. That doesn't mean thats the trade I want to see happen. Something >>>>>>>> Nothing.

[MannyIsGod]

:lol You clearly have no idea how Ainge negotiates. You'll be lucky to get Rozier from him, let alone either of those two.

Sorry I don't talk to fans of teams that are absolute and utter shit. Try Clipperstalk.com

[cd021]

Ainge will not give away players on all-star level career trajectories on cheap deals for combined 7 remaining years just to pay Kiwi 35 million per tbh. Hayward and one of the young ones would be more like the deal, hayward+tatum or irving+brown perhaps...

How much is Kawhi's max, non super max, contract supposed to be? The $35 million figure sounds like higher than it would actually end up being.

I agree that he likely won't give up both Tatum and Brown, which is why I suspect that a Spurs-Boston deal would include Tatum and the 2019 Grizzlies and Kings picks instead.

Boston is going to have a huge payroll anyway with Kyrie set to get an extension next season and Hayward and Horford both already on max deals but Kawhi added to those 3 players ( plus Brown) would instantly make them the best team in the East for the next half a decade +

[baseline bum]

You make the best trade you can because that is better than getting nothing. I don't care who it is to, but there is no worse outcome than Kawhi leaving and getting nothing so you obviously don't chose that one. I didn't say anything about taking the first offer or not playing hardball. But when push comes to shove, you move him for the best offer if you feel you the situation is broken.

How is this even debateable? Trading Kawhi for nothing more than a 2nd round draft pick is better than him just leaving via free agency. That doesn't mean thats the trade I want to see happen. Something >>>>>>>> Nothing.

You're just saying not to play hardball, to take a Lakers crap offer if that's the best you get. I don't think you take an offer you don't like just because it might be slightly better than getting nothing. I'd tell Leonard he's getting suspended for the season and follow up on it with the hopes that he either expands his list of teams he'd sign an extension with or gets his agent to light a fire under the Lakers' asses to get them to make a move for assets the Spurs would want. If the worst case scenario is it doesn't work out and the team loses out on some crap like Kuzma I'll live with it, especially since it would fuck Leonard over by having him miss a second season of basketball. I don't think it would come to that because I can't imagine he can live with a second year away from the game, but he already stole $19 million from the team this year so I could give a shit about him if he tries to fuck the Spurs over again by depressing his trade value with threats to only sign in LA.

[YGWHI]

Because the relationship is frayed?

Does it matter? We know that Jabari Young is close to Kawhi's group, he said his camp would sign a super-max deal if Spurs' offer it...

What's the reason for refusing to give him that contract? The broken relationship or the injury?

No one in the league would believe the Spurs lose a top-3 player -if he is healthy- for a broken-relationship. They know his group wants that contract and also know that Pop would fix things like always he did.

At this point, all GMs know, if they don't offer him that contract is because his injury.

[YGWHI]

I’m thinking this could be a situation if it gets to that point where it’s some random team. Like how no one saw OKC coming for PG, there might be some team that takes that swing for Kawhi to make a splash.

Agree.

1-Pop won't trade Kawhi to a Western Conference team.

Clippers have good picks, Lakers have some good young players...Pop won't trade his best player to them or any other WC team who could make playoffs with Kawhi playing for them.

2-Phoenix has Jackson & picks, plus the Suns are the only team in the West who will keep being ugly even with Kawhi.

3-Among Eastern Conference teams, Sixers most likely, then Hornets, Miami, Knicks, Cavs. I've said before that coach Fiz wants Kawhi badly, not for Porzingis obviously, but in a trade with more teams involved they can offer other players that teams -with decent picks- could need.

[CGD]

Does it matter? We know that Jabari Young is close to Kawhi's group, he said his camp would sign a super-max deal if Spurs' offer it...

What's the reason for refusing to give him that contract? The broken relationship or the injury?

No one in the league would believe the Spurs lose a top-3 player -if he is healthy- for a broken-relationship. They know his group wants that contract and also know that Pop would fix things like always he did.

At this point, all GMs know, if they don't offer him that contract is because his injury.

Or they’re afraid his uncle is just going to screw them a year from now once Leaonard is eligible to be traded after signing his super max deal.

I’m mean wouldn’t uncle Denny’s ideal scenario be for KL to sign the extension with Spurs, and then manufacture drama, etc. to force a trade a year from now? They lock in the 70M more that only spurs can offer AND find they’re way to “a big market” for whatever endorsement they think they’ll get.

The “trust” issue is a two way street.

[YGWHI]

Or they’re afraid his uncle is just going to screw them a year from now once Leaonard is eligible to be traded after signing his super max deal.

I’m mean wouldn’t uncle Denny’s ideal scenario be for KL to sign the extension with Spurs, and then manufacture drama, etc. to force a trade a year from now? They lock in the 70M more that only spurs can offer AND find they’re way to “a big market” for whatever endorsement they think they’ll get.

The “trust” issue is a two way street.

If the Spurs, the best organization in sports world can't deal with an ambitious uncle who isn't even a pro agent, I can't imagine how they will handle a new generation of players and new ambitious pro agents after Pop retirement.

About a future trade after signing a super-max contract, a deal can have clauses to protect the team against it, and others to protect the player.

[dbestpro]

I read a review on the games played yesterday with a quote that caught my attention. "Surprisingly the stars cam ready to play." It was an innocuous quote in an article meant to be supportive of the game played. The benign quote, however, speaks volumes of the state of the NBA game today.

[cd021]

Agree.

1-Pop won't trade Kawhi to a Western Conference team.

Clippers have good picks, Lakers have some good young players...Pop won't trade his best player to them or any other WC team who could make playoffs with Kawhi playing for them.

2-Phoenix has Jackson & picks, plus the Suns are the only team in the West who will keep being ugly even with Kawhi.

3-Among Eastern Conference teams, Sixers most likely, then Hornets, Miami, Knicks, Cavs. I've said before that coach Fiz wants Kawhi badly, not for Porzingis obviously, but in a trade with more teams involved they can offer other players that teams -with decent picks- could need.
None of those teams have the assets for a Kawhi trade yet their ranked ahead of Boston and Cleveland, I could even see Orlando before those 3 teams.

[exstatic]

If the Spurs, the best organization in sports world can't deal with an ambitious uncle who isn't even a pro agent, I can't imagine how they will handle a new generation of players and new ambitious pro agents after Pop retirement.

About a future trade after signing a super-max contract, a deal can have clauses to protect the team against it, and others to protect the player.
No it can't. You cannot protect against the brand of shit that his uncle threw against the wall this year, and the reality is, when you give in to demands, it never stops.

People around the league understand that the Spurs don't play these games, so your premise that if they don't offer the SM, everyone thinks he's injured is false.

[YGWHI]

None of those teams have the assets for a Kawhi trade yet their ranked ahead of Boston and Cleveland, I could even see Orlando before those 3 teams.
Orlando could be in PATFO's list, too.

Hornets have Kemba and MJ is enough stupid to do it. Also, who knows if Pop doesn't like some Heat young players...

Again, I've said many times that I can't see Ainge trading Brown or Tatum for Kawhi. Boston could be in the list but that won't happen.

[YGWHI]

No it can't. You cannot protect against the brand of shit that his uncle threw against the wall this year, and the reality is, when you give in to demands, it never stops.

People around the league understand that the Spurs don't play these games, so your premise that if they don't offer the SM, everyone thinks he's injured is false.

Last summer, they had a player asking for more touches, more minutes, better stats...And they already accepted his demands.

They had a player with a issue with a teammate's wife...

Other player that demanded his family to travel with the team...

They accepted a lot of things in the past.

The only reason they don't give Kawhi the super-max is because the considerable uncertainty about his injury prognosis. The rest of things can be fixed in a second when the money is there.

And all NBA GMs know it.

[BackHome]

I watched Miami in the playoffs have to say they have some pretty good players I was very suprised.

Pop is not going to put up with dealing with Kawhi uncle. Once Pop made that comment about don’t ask me ask his people I New his career with the Spurs was over. Like any marriage if both want to stay happy marriage but Kawhi Uncle doesn’t want to stay so let the Trade Wars Begin!!!

[rjv]

i can't see the celtics wanting to depart with tatum and rozier at this point; not with the way they are balling.

[BSfromTX]

?
Does it matter? We know that Jabari Young is close to Kawhi's group, he said his camp would sign a super-max deal if Spurs' offer it...

What's the reason for refusing to give him that contract? The broken relationship or the injury?

No one in the league would believe the Spurs lose a top-3 player -if he is healthy- for a broken-relationship. They know his group wants that contract and also know that Pop would fix things like always he did.

At this point, all GMs know, if they don't offer him that contract is because his injury.

In my opinion it is a number of factors. A supermax deal restricts your ability to sign other players and manage the salary cap and if it is for a player that has missed the last two playoffs then you think long and hard about dedicating that much salary to one player. I have no idea if the spurs can "afford" the supermax and to go over the luxury cap. I would assume they can but that it really cuts into their profits.

I'm not saying Kawhi is not deserving. I think all of the players are deserving of as much as they can get from the system. Players should not be asked to give up any more than owners and vice versa, because players like Kawhi MAKE the NBA. That being said, in order for teams to be competitive, there has to be a good level of fiscal responsibility regarding the cap, good drafting, luck, and some sacrifice from the players to make room under the cap (see Duncan, David, Manu). Do they have to? No, but they do if they want to win Championships.

Also, don't forget after the last economy crash, the cap level actually went down. There WILL be another crisis like 2008 and when it happens, there could be some serious regret from teams with these kinds of contracts

[snickles]

Ainge ain't moving Tatum for a player whose thigh xrays look like this tbh:

https://3c1703fe8d.site.internapcdn.net/newman/gfx/news/hires/2015/inflammation.jpg


Kawhi has a tail?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

[YGWHI]

?

In my opinion it is a number of factors. A supermax deal restricts your ability to sign other players and manage the salary cap and if it is for a player that has missed the last two playoffs then you think long and hard about dedicating that much salary to one player. I have no idea if the spurs can "afford" the supermax and to go over the luxury cap. I would assume they can but that it really cuts into their profits.

I'm not saying Kawhi is not deserving. I think all of the players are deserving of as much as they can get from the system. Players should not be asked to give up any more than owners and vice versa, because players like Kawhi MAKE the NBA. That being said, in order for teams to be competitive, there has to be a good level of fiscal responsibility regarding the cap, good drafting, luck, and some sacrifice from the players to make room under the cap (see Duncan, David, Manu). Do they have to? No, but they do if they want to win Championships.

Also, don't forget after the last economy crash, the cap level actually went down. There WILL be another crisis like 2008 and when it happens, there could be some serious regret from teams with these kinds of contracts
:tu
Agreed. I've said before there are small markets teams that can't afford super-max deals. I'm not saying the Spurs are one of them but could be a factor.

Kawhi super-max is about two-three good players salaries, this makes any Spurs' owner to think about...

I'm not sure if GMs realize this SA situation.
In that case, Pop should be sincere with them about Spurs' financial future and how a super-max contract could affect it.

[exstatic]

Last summer, they had a player asking for more touches, more minutes, better stats...And they already accepted his demands.

They had a player with a issue with a teammate's wife...

Other player that demanded his family to travel with the team...

They accepted a lot of things in the past.

The only reason they don't give Kawhi the super-max is because the considerable uncertainty about his injury prognosis. The rest of things can be fixed in a second when the money is there.

And all NBA GMs know it.

On court issues are different from "we want to infest your organization with family and hangers on". Even you should see that. LaMarcus NEVER held the organization hostage. He went and directly talked to Pop. He didn't run away to another city and hide behind his agent and family.

The Spurs never involved themselves in the Tony thing.

[YGWHI]

I watched Miami in the playoffs have to say they have some pretty good players I was very suprised.
Me, too. That's why I think Pop could like some of them.


Like any marriage if both want to stay happy marriage but Kawhi Uncle doesn’t want to stay so let the Trade Wars Begin!!!
I wouldn't say his uncle doesn't want to stay...If we believe what Jabari Young wrote about Kawhi's camp, they want the super-max deal while denying any trade-talks.

[exstatic]

[/COLOR]Me, too. That's why I think Pop could like some of them.


I wouldn't say his uncle doesn't want to stay...If we believe what Jabari Young wrote about Kawhi's camp, they want the super-max deal while denying any trade-talks.

If he's injured, as you say, they shouldn't offer it. If he isn't injured, then this was all a medical holdout, and he's a snake, and they shouldn't offer it.

[YGWHI]

On court issues are different from "we want to infest your organization with family and hangers on". Even you should see that. LaMarcus NEVER held the organization hostage. He went and directly talked to Pop. He didn't run away to another city and hide behind his agent and family.
He never run to other city because he wasn't injury and didn't need rehab.

About "infest with family and hangers on"...Kawhi and his uncle didn't say a word against the Spurs.

In fact, the player said he wants to be a Spurs' for life and his uncle denied trade-talks.

Pop felt frustrated for many reasons and media used it to create a lot of drama.

Even you should see that Kawhi still calls Pop almost every day and his young teammates. Media tried to sell the story of him "disconnected" from the team but the same reporters had to admit he's still in contact.


The Spurs never involved themselves in the Tony thing.
In public.

[YGWHI]

If he's injured, as you say, they shouldn't offer it. If he isn't injured, then this was all a medical holdout, and he's a snake, and they shouldn't offer it.
I truly believe he's injured and that's the reason I said many teams will lowball the Spurs.

If that's the reason why the Spurs don't offer him the supermax? Most likely...But the small-market issue could play a role, too.

[exstatic]

About "infest with family and hangers on"...Kawhi and his uncle didn't say a word against the Spurs.

In fact, the player said he wants to be a Spurs' for life and his uncle denied trade-talks.


In Public.

[SuperCam]

992402604742316032


Killa 'Kyrie and LMAlpha duo could do work tbqh, if some of the other dead weight on the roster is purged.

[exstatic]

992402604742316032


Killa 'Kyrie and LMAlpha duo could do work tbqh, if some of the other dead weight on the roster is purged.

That would be my starting scenario: Kyrie and one of their two choice picks in the next two drafts. Your next position is Brown/Tatum and one of the picks. After that, Tatum and both picks.

[rjv]

992402604742316032


Killa 'Kyrie and LMAlpha duo could do work tbqh, if some of the other dead weight on the roster is purged.

i have wondered if the celtics would decide to trade irving instead (or even haywood-who i would not take).

[baseline bum]

992402604742316032


Killa 'Kyrie and LMAlpha duo could do work tbqh, if some of the other dead weight on the roster is purged.

Nope, I'd rather have just Tatum than just Irving. LOL at SAS and Kellerman acting like this would be a five star player for five star player swap.

[SuperCam]

Nope, I'd rather have just Tatum than just Irving. LOL at SAS and Kellerman acting like this would be a five star player for five star player swap.

of course it's not a straight up swap not with bones growing out of Kiwi's leg and his discontent but you will almost never find a return as good as 26 year old Kyrie for a star who wants out, tbh.

if you take Jason Tatum instead you are throwing away LMAlpha's remaining contending years as well as Poop's coaching tenure. Killa' Kyrie and LMA are good enough duo to win 60+ games and put Spur back at #2 seed at worst.

[cd021]

Orlando could be in PATFO's list, too.

Hornets have Kemba and MJ is enough stupid to do it. Also, who knows if Pop doesn't like some Heat young players...

Again, I've said many times that I can't see Ainge trading Brown or Tatum for Kawhi. Boston could be in the list but that won't happen.

The Heat have don't have a pick this year and can't trade their 2019 pick. Unless Pop is interested in Olynic, Richardson, Winslow and Bam! -All pretty good but doesn't put us anywhere near title contention and 0 future prospects, no way that happens.

Charlotte can really only offer Kemba, Monk and the 9th pick. Kemba is 28 and will expect a big payday after next season, he doesn't move the needle in terms of title contention to make a move for him at his point, especially when LMA will be 33 next season.

The 9th pick would be nice but we wouldn't be in the Donic, Bagley Jr., Jackson Jr. Territory and that deal would be even more unlikely to happen if PAFTO isn't impressed with Monk.

Knicks aren't moving 'Taps for Kawhi because they'd rather pair the two and he is also several years younger than Kawhi, meaning that their best offer is likely their pick this year and the kid drafted last year.

Orlando has Gordon and the 5th pick, which might land Doncic or one of the too prospects in this draft but that team would be a wasteland even with Kawhi and no guarantee that he would re-sign.

Cleveland could try a 3 teamer with Phoenix (credit to Chinook for the idea)

Cleveland Get;
Kawhi Leonard

Phoenix Gets;
Kevin Love

Spurs Get;

7th, 15th Pick, T.J Warren

I still think Boston would give up Tatum and the Kings and Grizzlies picks in a deal for Kawhi while Philly probably would do a Kawhi and Mills deal for Covington, Fultz and Saric plus the 10th pick and Parsecniks.

[mo7888]

The Heat have don't have a pick this year and can't trade their 2019 pick. Unless Pop is interested in Olynic, Richardson, Winslow and Bam! -All pretty good but doesn't put us anywhere near title contention and 0 future prospects, no way that happens.

Charlotte can really only offer Kemba, Monk and the 9th pick. Kemba is 28 and will expect a big payday after next season, he doesn't move the needle in terms of title contention to make a move for him at his point, especially when LMA will be 33 next season.

The 9th pick would be nice but we wouldn't be in the Donic, Bagley Jr., Jackson Jr. Territory and that deal would be even more unlikely to happen if PAFTO isn't impressed with Monk.

Knicks aren't moving 'Taps for Kawhi because they'd rather pair the two and he is also several years younger than Kawhi, meaning that their best offer is likely their pick this year and the kid drafted last year.

Orlando has Gordon and the 5th pick, which might land Doncic or one of the too prospects in this draft but that team would be a wasteland even with Kawhi and no guarantee that he would re-sign.

Cleveland could try a 3 teamer with Phoenix (credit to Chinook for the idea)

Cleveland gets;
Kawhi and Mills

Spurs get;
7th pick from Cleveland, 15th and 31st picks from Phoenix

Phoenix gets;
Kevin Love

I still think Boston would give up Tatum and the Kings and Grizzlies picks in a deal for Kawhi while Philly probably would do a Kawhi and Mills deal for Covington, Fultz and Saric plus the 10th pick and Parsecniks.

Of those proposals I like the Philly one best, followed by Cleveland, and then Boston.

[Mugen]

Fultz sucks, Saric is meh...outside of Simmons and Embiid, there's nobody I'd want from Philly

Tatum, Brown and a 1st would be a steal but i doubt Boston would give up that much. I frankly think Ainge would bamboozle RC in any Kawhi trade so I'd prefer not to deal with them.

I'd target a team like Phoenix that has a terrible front office, a retarded owner desperate for a superstar. Try and sell them on Jackson and a top 5 pick for Kawhi. Not sure if they'd deal with the Spurs since Sarver hates us but that'd be terrific tbh

[exstatic]

Of those proposals I like the Philly one best, followed by Cleveland, and then Boston.

It's funny, because I hate the Cleveland one. If you're doing "picks only" for an All NBA player, one of them had better be top 3-5. I'd need PHO to flip a young player in that deal.

My order of the trades proposed by cd021 would be Boston, Philly, then Cleveland.

[spurraider21]

:lmao josh jackson

[Mugen]

:lmao josh jackson

Jackson and a top 5 pick is exponentially better than Markell Fultz and Dario Saric :lol

[mo7888]

It's funny, because I hate the Cleveland one. If you're doing "picks only" for an All NBA player, one of them had better be top 3-5. I'd need PHO to flip a young player in that deal.

My order of the trades proposed by cd021 would be Boston, Philly, then Cleveland.

It's too many picks for sure but, I think you could package 1 or 2 of our picks in the teens with 7 and move up a couple spots to get a targeted player.

[r0drig0lac]

With a four year extension the Spurs should have no problem getting both, though I doubt they'd get any good picks then. What is Boston going to do with four starting level small forwards?
use them in the sg and sf positions as any modern team

[exstatic]

use them in the sg and sf positions as any modern team

That's still two young high draft picks playing 15 minutes and not starting.

[Joseph Kony]

Fultz sucks, Saric is meh...outside of Simmons and Embiid, there's nobody I'd want from Philly

Tatum, Brown and a 1st would be a steal but i doubt Boston would give up that much. I frankly think Ainge would bamboozle RC in any Kawhi trade so I'd prefer not to deal with them.

I'd target a team like Phoenix that has a terrible front office, a retarded owner desperate for a superstar. Try and sell them on Jackson and a top 5 pick for Kawhi. Not sure if they'd deal with the Spurs since Sarver hates us but that'd be terrific tbh
How does Fultz suck? Kid has barely played. I think he has potential. He looked solid the few times i actually got to see him play

[TheGreatYacht]

I've yet to see a Celtikkks fan on twitter agree on a trade scenario for Kawhi. Even their old fart baby boomer players don't want him.

Don't even give them the time of day. Ainge is a cheap bastard and anyone who trades with him is a full blown retard. Fuck Boston.

[TD 21]

Most likely, either Smart (RFA) isn't re-signed or they sell high on Rozier (could see Suns offering 16 and Celtics selecting Williams or Robinson), whose a year away from being RFA, I'd think. They either have to go all in on Tatum as the nominal PF and Horford as the C or one of Tatum or Brown will have to come off the bench. They'd still get starting caliber minutes backing up the other and Hayward, while closing alongside both.



Cleveland could try a 3 teamer with Phoenix (credit to Chinook for the idea)




Cleveland gets;
Kawhi and Mills

Spurs get;
7th pick from Cleveland, 15th and 31st picks from Phoenix

Phoenix gets;
Kevin Love

Spurs aren't trading Mills unless he has to be a casualty in their acquiring a superstar or star, like he'd have been had Paul wanted to come or had they possessed the requisite assets for Irving.

Can't envision an all pick trade. They'll want a baseline of certainty; that's how trades of this magnitude work generally work. Picks are relative unknowns and outside of the first few always unlikely to turn into a superstar or star. They can't risk trading a superstar for 3 role players.

Sure, Fultz, for example, could be a bust, but at least they could save face because he was and is thought to have star potential.




Fultz sucks

:lmao Only in the NBA could you be 19, have played a grand total of 253 minutes (most of which came after either developing a mental block, suffering a structural shoulder injury or both) and already be written off.

[rjv]

there is a great deal more of uncertainty surrounding fultz than there is kawhi. i really don't want anything to do with a trade involving him.

[cd021]

It's funny, because I hate the Cleveland one. If you're doing "picks only" for an All NBA player, one of them had better be top 3-5. I'd need PHO to flip a young player in that deal.

My order of the trades proposed by cd021 would be Boston, Philly, then Cleveland.



Spurs aren't trading Mills unless he has to be a casualty in their acquiring a superstar or star, like he'd have been had Paul wanted to come or had they possessed the requisite assets for Irving.

Can't envision an all pick trade. They'll want a baseline of certainty; that's how trades of this magnitude work generally work. Picks are relative unknowns and outside of the first few always unlikely to turn into a superstar or star. They can't risk trading a superstar for 3 role players.

Sure, Fultz, for example, could be a bust, but at least they could save face because he was and is thought to have star potential.



Altered trade idea;

Phoenix Get;
Kevin Love

Cleveland Get;
Kawhi Leonard

Spurs Get;

7th, 15th Pick, T.J Warren

[TD 21]

Altered trade idea;

Phoenix Get;
Kevin Love

Cleveland Get;
Kawhi Leonard

Spurs Get;

7th, 15th Pick, T.J Warren

I meant a baseline of certainty in terms of the centerpiece either already having shown flashes or at least still thought to have star potential. No disrespect, but if the package doesn't start with that, it's not even worth considering.

[Mugen]

Yeah, you guys are right. Fultz doesn't suck yet, give it another year or two then we can say he sucks :lol

[SAGirl]

Why would the ECF-bound Celtics (minus 2 AllStars) even think of trading their best two young prospects for a 6-7 year older injury-prone soft beta with a degenerative quad? :lol
spurfan is delusional...


not sure spurfan can even hope for Tatum at this point tbqh, not if Kiwi is really growing a bone in his thigh muscle.
exactly...:lol

[SAGirl]

They'd give the Spurs both in a second if they can get Leonard to agree to an extension, assuming his health checks out with their doctors. But if Kawhi is a dick and Boston is taking a chance on a one year rental the Spurs would get neither.
big if... his health needs to check out with his private doctors at this point...

[SAGirl]

Spurfans are going to be in a rude awakening if/when it becomes known PATFO were lowballed bigtime for Kawhi..

Has it ever happened a player miss nearly an entire year basketball season without going under the knife? yall need to wake the f up. We are closer to Brandon Roy territory with him than somehow recovering to be at an MVP-level again..
:toast
Danny Granger tbh... he's out of the league after tendinosis of the knee had him sit out 55 games in 2012-13. He had surgery at some point but was never again the same player.

[Ice009]

I didn't realize Danny Granger had tendonosis? Is that what ended his career? I thought he just had a knee injury/injuries and never recovered 100% after the surgery.

[exstatic]

I didn't realize Danny Granger had tendonosis? Is that what ended his career? I thought he just had a knee injury/injuries and never recovered 100% after the surgery.

Yet Tim had it, got it cleaned, and played on.

[Clipper Nation]

How does Fultz suck? Kid has barely played.
You've answered your own question, tbh. Fultz hasn't played because he's scared of the NBA and forgot how to shoot a jump shot as a result.

[SAGirl]

I didn't realize Danny Granger had tendonosis? Is that what ended his career? I thought he just had a knee injury/injuries and never recovered 100% after the surgery.
it was a chronic problem that got worse... eerie.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AT4rZzvRzW0

[exstatic]

it was a chronic problem that got worse... eerie.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AT4rZzvRzW0

You understand that Kawhi doesn’t have tendonosis, right? That’s not the same thing as tendonopathy.

[SanAntonioSpurs23]

To get Kawhi? Of course they would trade at least one of them.

Why? They are close to making the ECF without Kyrie and Hayward. Why trade 1 of 2 promising young rookies on rookie salaries for a dude that is either seriously hurt or quits on his team?

[CGD]

I think the team that loses this exciting BOS-PHI series will think they are a peice away (but more so Philly). These two teams are primed to dominate the league for the next 7 years. Leonard in Philly would be insane.

[exstatic]

Why? They are close to making the ECF without Kyrie and Hayward. Why trade 1 of 2 promising young rookies on rookie salaries for a dude that is either seriously hurt or quits on his team?

Because neither of them is All NBA, and Kawhi is. The last player of this caliber to hit the market was Harden. That’s half a decade ago.

[mo7888]

Why? They are close to making the ECF without Kyrie and Hayward. Why trade 1 of 2 promising young rookies on rookie salaries for a dude that is either seriously hurt or quits on his team?

Because they can't afford to lose him to Cleveland. Kawhi and LeBron closes Boston's window before it even gets opened.

[Mr. Body]

Why? They are close to making the ECF without Kyrie and Hayward. Why trade 1 of 2 promising young rookies on rookie salaries for a dude that is either seriously hurt or quits on his team?

Because they get Kawhi Leonard?

[spursistan]

Because neither of them is All NBA, and Kawhi is. The last player of this caliber to hit the market was Harden. That’s half a decade ago.
You mean like in April 2017? Yes. But we are in May 2018. And he played like 9 minute-restricted, non-back-to-back games ever since.

Tatum/Brown are about to one-two punch the Celtics to the Eastern Conference Finals and while Kawhi is hopping from one New York clinic to the other..

Those are the relevant facts right now..Go figure..

[Ice009]

Would Jordan brand allow Kawhi to go to Cleveland? I mean, Jordan might not want that because Lebron would then have a very legit chance of catching him in rings.

I hope these sponsorship companies don't have this much of a say where a player of his caliber goes.

[SAGirl]

You understand that Kawhi doesn’t have tendonosis, right? That’s not the same thing as tendonopathy.
I understand there are conflicting reports and medical differences about his diagnosis...

[exstatic]

I understand there are conflicting reports and medical differences about his diagnosis...

None of them have said tendonosis.

[SAGirl]

None of them have said tendonosis.
It doesn't matter since we are not privy to what he has... he might end up like granger or many others whose career ended up prematurely by injuries.

[Kawhitstorm]

Boston's current run is Fool's Gold, but still, why trade these young pieces for a question mark like Kawhi when you already have Kyrie and Hayward in the chamber for next season? It's house money for then, atm, they can easily convince themselves that just adding those 2 guys will make them a real title contender for the foreseeable future..

Seems like a stupid risk for a player coming off a major injury and a potential off-court issue, tbh.

Sixers are most likely to go all in on Kawhi since Embiid is most likely not going to have a long career so they have to win within the next 4-5 years. Simmons/Fultz most likely not going to develop a dependable jumper anytime soon so they ain't winning with those two.

If they also plan on re-signing ReDick, they have to go all in right away.

Fultz/Covington/Saric + Lakers pick would be as good a haul as anything PATFO are going to get from another team. Drunk can also dump Fatty in the process to match salaries.

For reference this was what Melo/Billups netted:


Melo to the New York Knicks tonight, a league source said. Denver gets Wilson Chandler, Raymond Felton, Danilo Gallinari, Timofey Mozgov, the Knicks 2014 first-round draft pick, the Warriors' 2012 second-round pick, the Warriors' 2013 second-round pick and $3 million in cash.

Backcourt: Murray/Fultz/DJ

Wings: Mikal/Covington

Frontcourt: LMA/Saric/Costello

20th pick: Jontay Porter (Would really benefit from Pau as he's already a good passer)

The team would have slashing guards with bigs who can spread the floor, similar to the Celtics. The wings/backcourt would also be lock-down defenders thus Saric/Porter wouldn't be burdened to protect the rim.

[lmbebo]

None of them have said tendonosis.

Tendinosis and tendinopathy are interchangable ...

[exstatic]

Tendinosis and tendinopathy are interchangable ...

It’s funny, because Duncan had tendonosis, and they clearly called it that, and they’re clearly calling what Kawhi has tendonopathy. Spurs aren’t treating them as interchangeable.

[tholdren]

It’s funny, because Duncan had tendonosis, and they clearly called it that, and they’re clearly calling what Kawhi has tendonopathy. Spurs aren’t treating them as interchangeable.

Spurs dont know and drs dont know. Spurs strength coaches have been terrible for years. Drs use billable visits. But if youve ever liked to play competitive sports injuries wouldnt interfere with your mindset to play

[cd021]

I think the team that loses this exciting BOS-PHI series will think they are a peice away (but more so Philly). These two teams are primed to dominate the league for the next 7 years. Leonard in Philly would be insane.

Boston has the surplus of picks, including two, possibility 3 lottery picks plus Tatum/ Brown. They could stand pat and pass on Kawhi and hope AD becomes available and throw the farm at New Orleans.

While the 76ers have two of the best players under 25 in the league with two other above average starters in Saric and Covington along with the 10th pick, 26th pick and 37 and 38th pick plus 2 promising bigs being stashed overseas.

They could look to consolidate their assets and build a legit big 3 by moving some of those assets for Kawhi.

[MoSpur02]

Don't offer the supermax and go after LeBron

[spursistan]

Thinking the Celts would trade Tatum for Kawhi straight up right now :lmao..

Much less with picks + Brown :lmao :rollin

[SuperCam]

Thinking the Celts would trade Tatum for Kawhi straight up right now :lmao..

Much less with picks + Brown :lmao :rollin


Spurfan kiwi asswiper duncan2k5 talking about trading LMA for Tatum just last week :lmao

[spursistan]

^^ Expecting Philly to make big push for Kawhi trade, though. Neither Simmons nor the overrated bigmouth Embiid is anywhere near the closer they need in these type of playoffs games. They need to match Boston glaring wing advantage..

[Mr. Body]

Thinking the Celts would trade Tatum for Kawhi straight up right now :lmao..

Much less with picks + Brown :lmao :rollin

He does look untradeable at this point. But he is being guarded by the likes of Marco Belinelli right now.

[Mr. Body]

^^ Expecting Philly to make big push for Kawhi trade, though. Neither Simmons nor the overrated bigmouth Embiid is anywhere near the closer they need in these type of playoffs games. They need to match Boston glaring wing advantage..

I see this as likely to happen - at least a push. They're so bad offensively they're forced to get points from Marco and Reddick in late game situations.

[TheGreatYacht]

Great news: Lebron is watching Sixers get exposed and Brett Brown isn't on the same universe as Stevens

Bad news: Houston is probably the favorite to land him.

[CGD]

I see this as likely to happen - at least a push. They're so bad offensively they're forced to get points from Marco and Reddick in late game situations.

Yup. And, I actually see them wanting Mills too for scoring off the bench. They’re probably not keeping Redick

[TheGreatYacht]

Yup. And, I actually see them wanting Mills too for scoring off the bench. They’re probably not keeping Redick
You should've just stopped at "Yup."

[spursistan]

Spurfan kiwi asswiper duncan2k5 talking about trading LMA for Tatum just last week :lmao
:lmao..

Even Kawhi has probably done this only once and it was last season playoffs.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DceSxrhVwAA_-Gk.jpg

[Killakobe81]

yuck Tatum and Brown are scrubs compared to Kawhi. And I'm the least Kawhi homer on the site. Would much much much rather go after proven guys in their prime like Lillard and McCollum

:lol
:lmao

Celts wouldnt say yes to Tatum, Brown and Kings pick ...
you the non Kiwi homer acting like its not enough ...

[Killakobe81]

"Tatum + Rozier + Kings pick isn't terrible," Danny Ainge :lol

I'd take

Love + Zizic + Osman+ Brooklyn Pick (currently projected to be 7th) from Cleveland over that package from Boston tbh.

delusions you went from not wanting this 4 weeks ago ...but now celts probably wont even give you this much ...