Lowe: Celtics starting point for Leonard likely Tatum and Kings 1st

[TD 21]

http://www.espn.com/espnradio/play?id=23031388

At approximately the 29 minute mark . . .

"Well, you gotta include one of Tatum or Brown off the bat. You gotta include the Kings pick next year; that's your starting point. Now, the Spurs would probably say, we want both Tatum and Brown and the Celtics will not do it. But, you gotta part with one of 'em and I bet the Spurs would ask for Tatum. I bet their starting point for any negotiations would be Tatum and the Kings pick and let's go from there."

[SuperCam]

PATFO should jump on that tbh, before Kiwi's people say he only would resign in LA.

Kyrie + Taytum + 1st for Kiwi. Get it done

[K...]

This isn't worth a thread unless you can name (or speculate) on who leaked the offer to test market

[phxspurfan]

yuck Tatum and Brown are scrubs compared to Kawhi. And I'm the least Kawhi homer on the site. Would much much much rather go after proven guys in their prime like Lillard and McCollum

[szkorhetz]

PATFO should jump on that tbh, before Kiwi's people say he only would resign in LA.

Kyrie + Taytum + 1st for Kiwi. Get it done
:lol
C's would never answer Spurs call. Ever.

[Emperor]

Don't Celts have the Memphis pick aswell? Why not ask for that instead plus Tatum?

[r0drig0lac]

http://www.espn.com/espnradio/play?id=23031388

At approximately the 29 minute mark . . .

"Well, you gotta include one of Tatum or Brown off the bat. You gotta include the Kings pick next year; that's your starting point. Now, the Spurs would probably say, we want both Tatum and Brown and the Celtics will not do it. But, you gotta part with one of 'em and I bet the Spurs would ask for Tatum. I bet their starting point for any negotiations would be Tatum and the Kings pick and let's go from there."

so goodbye

[MoSpur02]

I'd do it. Kawhi has become a cancer to this franchise. I've never heard so much drama on national radio and TV shows about the Spurs like this season. You can tell the main staples of this team like Pop, Manu, Parker, and even LMA don't like dealing with this drama.

Get rid of him and bring in someone who ACTUALLY WANTS to play here.

[Clipper Nation]

You're getting Austin, Wes and DekkerPERIOD

[spurraider21]

https://i.imgur.com/x6xtAGq.jpg

You're getting Austin, Wes and DekkerPERIOD

[Chinook]

More Lowe shitting on a plate and trying to find someone to eat it. Has there been any credible report that the Spurs like Tatum and would prioritize him over a high pick? I understand the desire to "replace" Kawhi with a young wing. But superstars aren't a "plug-n-play" kind of thing. If they go the prospect route, it needs to be the best overall player than project to get, not the most-hyped SF.

[mo7888]

Would Boston really want Hayward, Kawhi, and Kyrie all maxed out with horford at 27M? That alot of money and alot of injury risk.

[TD 21]

More Lowe shitting on a plate and trying to find someone to eat it. Has there been any credible report that the Spurs like Tatum and would prioritize him over a high pick? I understand the desire to "replace" Kawhi with a young wing. But superstars aren't a "plug-n-play" kind of thing. If they go the prospect route, it needs to be the best overall player than project to get, not the most-hyped SF.

No, but by all accounts he's Spurs material and they wouldn't prioritize him over a high pick, they'd receive both and then some.

[Chinook]

No, but by all accounts he's Spurs material and they wouldn't prioritize him over a high pick, they'd receive both and then some.

A potential high pick in the future isn't the same thing as a high pick in the present. Sacramento won't be actively tanking next year. Even if they get a good enough pick, it will be in an undifferentiated draft and subject to all the uncertainty that entails.

As I've said before: If they truly think Tatum is a great prospect, that's fine. But they may not. And if they don't, then the Sac pick isn't enough to bridge the game with the Nets pick, for example.

[SAGirl]

More Lowe shitting on a plate and trying to find someone to eat it. Has there been any credible report that the Spurs like Tatum and would prioritize him over a high pick? I understand the desire to "replace" Kawhi with a young wing. But superstars aren't a "plug-n-play" kind of thing. If they go the prospect route, it needs to be the best overall player than project to get, not the most-hyped SF.
The last rumors were that Spurs turned down everyone that inquired about Kiwi by the trade deadline. Spurs organization was apparently very firm that he wasn't up for trade.

I think we have to consider scenarios like K described, meaning some FO are calling in favors to spin their own agendas.

[Leetonidas]

Tatum + Rozier + Kings pick isn't terrible

[TD 21]

A potential high pick in the future isn't the same thing as a high pick in the present. Sacramento won't be actively tanking next year. Even if they get a good enough pick, it will be in an undifferentiated draft and subject to all the uncertainty that entails.

As I've said before: If they truly think Tatum is a great prospect, that's fine. But they may not. And if they don't, then the Sac pick isn't enough to bridge the game with the Nets pick, for example.

True, but so will an '18 one. Granted, '19 is supposedly not expected to be a strong draft, but no matter the year or the number, uncertainty and risk is why a pick can't be the centerpiece of a package.

Of course they may not, but there's no reason to think they wouldn't and a lot would have to line up for trade of this magnitude. For example, even if they like Jackson better, it's highly unlikely the Suns would surrender the requisite assets because Leonard more than likely wouldn't stay.

[YGWHI]

Woj, Lowe, Simmons...All guys are too busy working for big markets teams. While people are so naive to believe they're true reporters/analysts

Why do they talk about Boston, LA? Why not Phoenix? Why only big markets involved?? I guess that Sarver b*tch isn't paying these guys properly.

[Chinook]

True, but so will an '18 one. Granted, '19 is supposedly not expected to be a strong draft, but no matter the year or the number, uncertainty and risk is why a pick can't be the centerpiece of a package.

I don't mean "uncertain" because you never know how it will turn out. I mean that you don't know where you're going to pick or who will be there when you pick. If the Spurs trade Kawhi during the draft, it won't just be for a pick. It will be for whatever player they want. So if the Cavs get like the fourth pick and are willing to trade that for Kawhi, the Spurs can wait to see if Doncic or whomever falls before making the pick. Even if the Kings pick is first-overall or whatever, PATFO won't know who will be available there, who will go back to school, who will suffer a major injury in college.

While I think SA would have trades set up well before the draft, I don't think they'd pull the trigger on any trade not involving the first pick until after that pick comes up. In that way the "Brooklyn first" may not be able to be the centerpiece of a trade but Ayton could be, and he could be a much more persuasive centerpiece than Tatum or Jackson.


Of course they may not, but there's no reason to think they wouldn't and a lot would have to line up for trade of this magnitude. For example, even if they like Jackson better, it's highly unlikely the Suns would surrender the requisite assets because Leonard more than likely wouldn't stay.

There are more pieces than just Tatum and Jackson. It could be Fultz they prefer more or Ingram or whomever. In the case of Philly, I can easily see the 10th pick this year being more valuable than the Kings pick. There are more potential packages from other teams too, but that would be getting into strong rehash territory go over again, and until/unless we know they're shopping Leonard, there's no need to go there.

[TD 21]

I don't mean "uncertain" because you never know how it will turn out. I mean that you don't know where you're going to pick or who will be there when you pick. If the Spurs trade Kawhi during the draft, it won't just be for a pick. It will be for whatever player they want. So if the Cavs get like the fourth pick and are willing to trade that for Kawhi, the Spurs can wait to see if Doncic or whomever falls before making the pick. Even if the Kings pick is first-overall or whatever, PATFO won't know who will be available there, who will go back to school, who will suffer a major injury in college.

While I think SA would have trades set up well before the draft, I don't think they'd pull the trigger on any trade not involving the first pick until after that pick comes up. In that way the "Brooklyn first" may not be able to be the centerpiece of a trade but Ayton could be, and he could be a much more persuasive centerpiece than Tatum or Jackson.



There are more pieces than just Tatum and Jackson. It could be Fultz they prefer more or Ingram or whomever. In the case of Philly, I can easily see the 10th pick this year being more valuable than the Kings pick. There are more potential packages from other teams too, but that would be getting into strong rehash territory go over again, and until/unless we know they're shopping Leonard, there's no need to go there.

I know, but more than likely the Kings pick is at least top 10 and there's a good chance it's top 5. More importantly, Tatum is clearly a foundational piece. That tandem is a lot more appealing than any one player in this draft, with no second significant asset because the Cavs don't have one.

Like I said, Jackson was just an example. The point is, there would be a lot of moving parts, so it would go beyond strictly what asset they like best.

[duncan2k5]

U guys are sick... Kawhi is injured... And u are blaming him for being injured... The Spurs doctors ended up agreeing with his... But u don't care... There is no friction that the media (which has an agenda) has been reporting... But u don't care... Kawhi does nothing but work his ass of for the team, and instead of having his back like his teammates do, u guys Bash him... Smh

[CGD]

Tatum and Kings pick is not the starting point, Zach. Remember, this is the same team that almost legit offered FOUR first rounders for Justice Winslow...

So it’s Tatum/kings pick, plus the entire remaining Cs draft pick cubbord (which is really the Memphis and Clips picks). You peel back from there.

[cd98]

Celtics make the trade so they can go all in on the injury recovery team.

[SAGirl]

Tatum and Kings pick is not the starting point, Zach. Remember, this is the same team that almost legit offered FOUR first rounders for Justice Winslow...

So it’s Tatum/kings pick, plus the entire remaining Cs draft pick cubbord (which is really the Memphis and Clips picks). You peel back from there.
He appears to have so obviously made a favor to Ainge

[Budkin]

Laughable unless Kyrie is part of the deal.

[cd021]

Tatum + Rozier + Kings pick isn't terrible

"Tatum + Rozier + Kings pick isn't terrible," Danny Ainge :lol

I'd take

Love + Zizic + Osman+ Brooklyn Pick (currently projected to be 7th) from Cleveland over that package from Boston tbh.

[cd021]

Woj, Lowe, Simmons...All guys are too busy working for big markets teams. While people are so naive to believe they're true reporters/analysts

Why do they talk about Boston, LA? Why not Phoenix? Why only big markets involved?? I guess that Sarver b*tch isn't paying these guys properly.

As i've bee saying; Phoenix has the best assets by far (four picks projected as ; 1st, 15th, 16th & 31st) plus can take on Kawhi with the Spurs not having to take back salary.

[picnroll]

Kawhi’s not likely to agree to sign with Phoenix so that’s a no go.

[noles1983]

Shitty mills needs to be part of any KL package

[eDizzle20]

Teams that are trading for Kawhi are not going to trade away a superstar, i.e. Kyrie, Anthony Davis. They’re going to trade away prospects. It makes no sense as these teams are trading for Kawhi to win a championship immediately. If Kawhi is traded the Spurs will be in rebuilding mode. They’ll still make the playoffs, but won’t be able to compete with Houston or Golden State. With that being said I do believe Kawhi is actually injured. He has given too much to the Spurs to believe rumors stating otherwise. Biggest issue now is if he will ever get healthy. This has been going on for 7 months now. He had quad issues even in his rookie season. Seems like no doubt it is chronic and will need to be managed for the rest of his career. Also, I think he’ll be with the team next season and will sign the super max this summer.

[duncan2k5]

Teams that are trading for Kawhi are not going to trade away a superstar, i.e. Kyrie, Anthony Davis. They’re going to trade away prospects. It makes no sense as these teams are trading for Kawhi to win a championship immediately. If Kawhi is traded the Spurs will be in rebuilding mode. They’ll still make the playoffs, but won’t be able to compete with Houston or Golden State. With that being said I do believe Kawhi is actually injured. He has given too much to the Spurs to believe rumors stating otherwise. Biggest issue now is if he will ever get healthy. This has been going on for 7 months now. He had quad issues even in his rookie season. Seems like no doubt it is chronic and will need to be managed for the rest of his career. Also, I think he’ll be with the team next season and will sign the super max this summer.

Voice of reason, tbh...

[TimDunkem]

"Tatum + Rozier + Kings pick isn't terrible," Danny Ainge :lol

I'd take

Love + Zizic + Osman+ Brooklyn Pick (currently projected to be 7th) from Cleveland over that package from Boston tbh.

Love sucks.

[Chinook]

Love sucks.

Love doesn't suck, but more importantly, other teams don't think he sucks, and the Spurs could reroute him to a team like Phoenix for assets.

[DJR210]

Trade that pussy to a perennial shit hole for cash considerations

[TimDunkem]

Love doesn't suck, but more importantly, other teams don't think he sucks, and the Spurs could reroute him to a team like Phoenix for assets.
That's fine, but he still sucks.

[BillMc]

More Kawhi-Celtics stuff


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hbb8CBxNcWs

[DPG21920]

I don’t listen or support anything with Nick Wright. Dude is straight up annoying and terrible.

[Ice009]

Do you guys believe Cris Carter has inside info on Kawhi? I watched it due to him saying his people are Kawhi's people. He's suckered me in with that otherwise I wouldn't give a shit what he had to say. Anyway, he said he believes Kawhi has played his last game with the Spurs.

[DPG21920]

Do you guys believe Cris Carter has inside info on Kawhi? I watched it due to him saying his people are Kawhi's people. He's suckered me in with that otherwise I wouldn't give a shit what he had to say. Anyway, he said he believes Kawhi has played his last game with the Spurs.

Cris Carter. The football player. That has never broken an nba story in his entire life and has never even been seen with Kawhi. That Cris Carter?

[LongtimeSpursFan]

:lol
C's would never answer Spurs call. Ever.


Maybe they think we finally ready to deal Duncan.

[DAF86]

Do you guys believe Cris Carter has inside info on Kawhi? I watched it due to him saying his people are Kawhi's people. He's suckered me in with that otherwise I wouldn't give a shit what he had to say. Anyway, he said he believes Kawhi has played his last game with the Spurs.


Cris Carter. The football player. That has never broken an nba story in his entire life and has never even been seen with Kawhi. That Cris Carter?

The people that manage Kawhi are the same people that managed Carter's career. It's obvious that Carter is getting inside info for his show in exchange of being the offcial spokeman for Kawhi's manager.

[MaNu4Tres]

Cris Carter. The football player. That has never broken an nba story in his entire life and has never even been seen with Kawhi. That Cris Carter?

Chris Carter is very close to Kawhi's group. Impact Sports represented Chris pretty much his whole career and still does.

I found it very interesting that Chris let the cat out of the bag saying, "Boston is for real and the deal is on the table. Lakers will be for real." and the Knicks too will be interested.

[MaNu4Tres]

Do you guys believe Cris Carter has inside info on Kawhi? I watched it due to him saying his people are Kawhi's people. He's suckered me in with that otherwise I wouldn't give a shit what he had to say. Anyway, he said he believes Kawhi has played his last game with the Spurs.

Impact Sports is an agency with a short list of athletes. Kawhi is one of their lone golden tickets -- as was Chris Carter during his career. Chris Carter is very close with Kawhis' group -- which consists of Impact Sports and his uncle.

Only a matter of time. IMO.

[duncan2k5]

All these media guys have an agenda to see Kawhi gone to a bug market team... So they're gonna spread nonsense... Obviously teams are gonna make offers if they THINK a top 3 player is on the block, but he isn't... And won't be... Spurs will never trade Kawhi unless he refuses to sign the supermax... Which he will

[DPG21920]

Boston can have injury prone Kyrie, Kawhi and recently horrifically injured Hayward

[DAF86]

Regarding the topic of the thread: Kyrie, Tatum and a lottery pick is probably the best the Spurs can do, tbh.

[SAGirl]

Regarding the topic of the thread: Kyrie, Tatum and a lottery pick is probably the best the Spurs can do, tbh.
Ainge will not even consider it until Kiwi is healthy. Until he’s healthy prepare to see hardball.

iMO Kiwi will not get traded.

[MaNu4Tres]

Regarding the topic of the thread: Kyrie, Tatum and a lottery pick is probably the best the Spurs can do, tbh.

Kyrie wouldn't be included imo.

Hayward maybe.

If it's Horford, then expect a 3rd team to be involved to soak up Horford and to give SA what they want.

[DPG21920]

Any deal for Kawhi must involve multiple first rounders along with eating one or two unfavorable deals

[MaNu4Tres]

Kyrie wouldn't be included imo.

Hayward maybe.

If it's Horford, then expect a 3rd team to be involved to soak up Horford and to give SA what they want.

I say Hayward, Brown or Tatum, Kings 1st in 19', Mem in 19'

Or

Tatum, Brown, Morris ( filler), Kings & MEM 1st in 19' would be the best Spurs can hope for.

[FvckMavs]

I say Hayward, Brown or Tatum, Kings 1st in 19'.

Hayward has 100m for 3 years left with a horrible injury. No thanks.

[DPG21920]

I would say something like:

BOS Gets: Pau + Kawhi
SA Gets: Brown + Tatum + Kings 1st in 19’ + 1st from third team
Third Team Gets: Horford + maybe a throw in player if needed + 2nd round pick

[DPG21920]

On this, I hope that if Kawhi is really doing this for the reasons given, that SA does not trade. Make him sacrifice as much money as possible for his actions even if that means harming the team some.

Not only would Kawhi give up about 70M in guaranteed money, but if you don’t trade and he reaches free agency that would also limit his choices since only a few teams each season have max money available.

So he would lose 70M, only have limited teams with enough cap space that year to choose from and if other teams wanted him they would have to shed assets to open up cap space.

[mo7888]

Ainge will not even consider it until Kiwi is healthy. Until he’s healthy prepare to see hardball.

iMO Kiwi will not get traded.

I think Ainge will offer a strong package but, there's going to have to be competition to get Ainge's best offer in the table. If Cleveland would get into the mix offering the Brooklyn pick then you could see a bidding war.

[SAGirl]

I think Ainge will offer a strong package but, there's going to have to be competition to get Ainge's best offer in the table. If Cleveland would get into the mix offering the Brooklyn pick then you could see a bidding war.
I still think he’s not traded until he shows he’s healthy.

[spurraider21]

On this, I hope that if Kawhi is really doing this for the reasons given, that SA does not trade. Make him sacrifice as much money as possible for his actions even if that means harming the team some.

Not only would Kawhi give up about 70M in guaranteed money, but if you don’t trade and he reaches free agency that would also limit his choices since only a few teams each season have max money available.

So he would lose 70M, only have limited teams with enough cap space that year to choose from and if other teams wanted him they would have to shed assets to open up cap space.
well that's going to convince future players that the spurs will treat them well...

[mo7888]

I still think he’s not traded until he shows he’s healthy.

I'm just guessing here.... but if Carter is really as close to this as some suggest and deals are on the table then Kawhi's not really still hurt...or at least it's so my or it's not a concern to those teams.

[DPG21920]

well that's going to convince future players that the spurs will treat them well...

Why would players be concerned with what the Spurs do with Kawhi knowing that if this is all true, Kawhi was a snake? You think they will forget about how they treated Tim, TP & Manu who are still there? How they honored their deal with Pau, Mills?

Kawhi and his team aren’t some power brokers. Most of the stars don’t even like Kawhi if you are to believe the reports. He’s not someone that holds sway and it would be a pretty easy picture to paint Kawhi in the wrong here with the Spurs long, storied history on how they treat their players.

[DAF86]

I think Ainge will offer a strong package but, there's going to have to be competition to get Ainge's best offer in the table. If Cleveland would get into the mix offering the Brooklyn pick then you could see a bidding war.

Cleveland has the brooklyn pick and nothing else. Boston has tons of desirable assets.

[SAGirl]

I'm just guessing here.... but if Carter is really as close to this as some suggest and deals are on the table then Kawhi's not really still hurt...or at least it's so my or it's not a concern to those teams.
That’s fine. I am sticking with the official channels bc there’s been too much BS flying around in the media. Not saying anyone is wrong or off. Personally, for me sticking with official statements for now. Spurs don’t really want to trade him to begin with.

This all comes from other FO trying to create rifts.

[DPG21920]

Cleveland has the brooklyn pick and nothing else. Boston has tons of desirable assets.

PHX is about to have the best asset: The number one pick in a draft where SA knows who will be available and has time to scout.

[DPG21920]

I don’t think Kawhi will be traded. I think he signs that DPE. He’s doing this so that what happened to Isiah Thomas doesn’t happen to him and to send a message to SA that he is not here to take less than the SuperMax so don’t try it.

[mo7888]

That’s fine. I am sticking with the official channels bc there’s been too much BS flying around in the media. Not saying anyone is wrong or off. Personally, for me sticking with official statements for now. Spurs don’t really want to trade him to begin with.

This all comes from other FO trying to create rifts.

There is a ton of BS out there one way or the other and we are all just speculating. If Carter is close to the Kawhi camp I think that's relevant but, I don't even know that he is.

[spurraider21]

Why would players be concerned with what the Spurs do with Kawhi knowing that if this is all true, Kawhi was a snake? You think they will forget about how they treated Tim, TP & Manu who are still there? How they honored their deal with Pau, Mills?

Kawhi and his team aren’t some power brokers. Most of the stars don’t even like Kawhi if you are to believe the reports. He’s not someone that holds sway and it would be a pretty easy picture to paint Kawhi in the wrong here with the Spurs long, storied history on how they treat their players.
doesn't matter if it's reasonable or not. all it takes is one player to look at the situation and say "man, the spurs did kawhi dirty, no way I wanna head there" for your move to backfire and hurt the organization long term. not to mention your plan involves us getting zero compensation for him leaving

[duncan2k5]

Why would players be concerned with what the Spurs do with Kawhi knowing that if this is all true, Kawhi was a snake? You think they will forget about how they treated Tim, TP & Manu who are still there? How they honored their deal with Pau, Mills?

Kawhi and his team aren’t some power brokers. Most of the stars don’t even like Kawhi if you are to believe the reports. He’s not someone that holds sway and it would be a pretty easy picture to paint Kawhi in the wrong here with the Spurs long, storied history on how they treat their players.

There are zero reports saying most players don't like Kawhi... I swear most of ST is stupid

[DPG21920]

doesn't matter if it's reasonable or not. all it takes is one player to look at the situation and say "man, the spurs did kawhi dirty, no way I wanna head there" for your move to backfire and hurt the organization long term. not to mention your plan involves us getting zero compensation for him leaving

Nah - I think SA would be 100% fine in that department. Their history speaks for itself. Who cares if one player would view it that way, not a big concern. Plus, Kawhi as I mentioned, is not some power broker nor is his agency. Your mindset comes into play when dealing with a player/agent who are power brokers and rep many players. That is not the Kawhi situation. He’s on his own island.

I agree, the zero compensation thing is a legitimate decision. But I personally would say f it this time and stick it to Kawhi IF this is all true. IF this is all true its one of the most underhanded things I have ever seen executed in sports.

[mo7888]

Cleveland has the brooklyn pick and nothing else. Boston has tons of desirable assets.

Cleveland can make a solid offer but, I'm not saying they can trump (no pun intended) Boston's offer. I am saying that Boston doesn't have to make their best offer unless they are competing with someone so Cleveland getting in the mix could persuade Boston to give up more assets if they truly value Kawhi. The same could be said for LA, NY, Denver and especially Phoenix. Basically, the more competition the better chance we have to get a favorable deal...or at least as favorable as you can get when trading a player of this caliber.

[DPG21920]

There are zero reports saying most players don't like Kawhi... I swear most of ST is stupid

Yes there is. Windhorst reported on it.

[SAGirl]

There is a ton of BS out there one way or the other and we are all just speculating. If Carter is close to the Kawhi camp I think that's relevant but, I don't even know that he is.
I do think Spurs are queasy about the supermax bc Kawhi isn’t healthy and I understand Kawhi and his agency (which Carter is close to as they were his agents too) would be upset about that. I am sure his agency has some hardball of his own and might want to spread rumors to force the Spurs. There’s something else going on, there’s some truth to some things but it’s a likely fluid situation IMO and Spurs still hope he will be fine and they can move past this. I am not being naive or blind like duncan2K5 and assume things are peachy but it’s nothing that can’t get resolved.

The only problem that doesn’t have a real solution is Kiwis tendinopathy. Only he knows what’s going on with that and I am giving him credibility that he’s legit hurt.

[DPG21920]

You don’t trade Kawhi. You then also make him play for you next season and if he pulls this again you have a legit grievance you can file and expose him even more.

Lot’s to lose for Kawhi is SA says “we aren’t trading you”. Of course there are things to lose for SA (like losing Kawhi for nothing) but if this is true it’s worth it. Not that I would expect SA to do that, just saying what I would like to see.

[r0drig0lac]

Why would players be concerned with what the Spurs do with Kawhi knowing that if this is all true, Kawhi was a snake? You think they will forget about how they treated Tim, TP & Manu who are still there? How they honored their deal with Pau, Mills?

Kawhi and his team aren’t some power brokers. Most of the stars don’t even like Kawhi if you are to believe the reports. He’s not someone that holds sway and it would be a pretty easy picture to paint Kawhi in the wrong here with the Spurs long, storied history on how they treat their players.

this

[DAF86]

PHX is about to have the best asset: The number one pick in a draft where SA knows who will be available and has time to scout.

I would rather have the Kings pick, Tatum and something more.

[TrainOfThought5]

Teams that are trading for Kawhi are not going to trade away a superstar, i.e. Kyrie, Anthony Davis. They’re going to trade away prospects. It makes no sense as these teams are trading for Kawhi to win a championship immediately. If Kawhi is traded the Spurs will be in rebuilding mode. They’ll still make the playoffs, but won’t be able to compete with Houston or Golden State. With that being said I do believe Kawhi is actually injured. He has given too much to the Spurs to believe rumors stating otherwise. Biggest issue now is if he will ever get healthy. This has been going on for 7 months now. He had quad issues even in his rookie season. Seems like no doubt it is chronic and will need to be managed for the rest of his career. Also, I think he’ll be with the team next season and will sign the super max this summer.

Yes, but thats not nearly as exciting as speculating on blockbuster trades with big market teams.

[George Gervin's Afro]

I hope there is a trade war.... for KL

[Chinook]

I would rather have the Kings pick, Tatum and something more.

Ew, no. People seem to forget that the Kings pick cannot be first overall.

[DAF86]

Ew, no. People seem to forget that the Kings pick cannot be first overall.

Can it be second overall?

I prefer a top 10 pick (that isn't the 1st) and Tatum, plus some other thing; than only the first pick in the draft.

[Chinook]

Can it be second overall?

I prefer a top 10 pick (that isn't the 1st) and Tatum, plus some other thing; than only the first pick in the draft.

It can be second-overall, but of SAC earns the top pick, Boston would get Philly's pick instead, which is likely to be in the 20s.

[MaNu4Tres]

It can be second-overall, but of SAC earns the top pick, Boston would get Philly's pick instead, which is likely to be in the 20s.

Which is why I'd demand the Grizzlies 1st in 19' as well as the Kings pick in 19'.

[Chinook]

You don't money-ball the first-overall pick. Ignoring the fact that people are just assuming Phoenix would give up only the pick while Boston would give up Tatum-plus, you take the best asset you can get. Then you figure out if you want to move down from there.

[cd021]

I would rather have the Kings pick, Tatum and something more.
I wouldn't; Tatum and the Kings pick, even if its say 5-10 isn't as good as what PHX can offer, even if they weren't to include the #1 overall pick.

[cd021]

Which is why I'd demand the Grizzlies 1st in 19' as well as the Kings pick in 19'.

Probably need to tack on the Clippers lottey protected pick in '19 as well. It isn't likely to convey (they'd have to make the playoffs in 2019 or 2020) but, still.

[baseline bum]

doesn't matter if it's reasonable or not. all it takes is one player to look at the situation and say "man, the spurs did kawhi dirty, no way I wanna head there" for your move to backfire and hurt the organization long term. not to mention your plan involves us getting zero compensation for him leaving

So instead of not coming because of the city and the market size free agents now won't come because of Kawhi?

[TD 21]

If the Suns wouldn't give up the requisite assets for Irving because they knew he wouldn't re-sign, then why would they think differently in this situation?

I remain steadfast that I'll have to see to believe the Spurs not offering and Leonard not accepting the super max, but if for some reason(s) that doesn't come to pass, the Celtics and Lakers, in that order, should be considered the likely trade partners.

[spurraider21]

So instead of not coming because of the city and the market size free agents now won't come because of Kawhi?
would be an additional factor.

[Chinook]

If the Suns wouldn't give up the requisite assets for Irving because they knew he wouldn't re-sign, then why would they think differently in this situation?

I remain steadfast that I'll have to see to believe the Spurs not offering and Leonard not accepting the super max, but if for some reason(s) that doesn't come to pass, the Celtics and Lakers, in that order, should be considered the likely trade partners.

Supposedly, they were willing to give up the fourth-overall pick and Bledsoe for Irving, but when Jackson fell, they backed off. The rumor was they considered Josh the top talent and were surprised he fell. I'm not sure how they would value Leonard in relation to Irving, but they have enough assets to beat almost every other team while still not giving up most of their coveted assets.

[mo7888]

I wouldn't; Tatum and the Kings pick, even if its say 5-10 isn't as good as what PHX can offer, even if they weren't to include the #1 overall pick.

I don't know that Phoenix would but, I think they can put together the best package for Kawhi from the teams we are talking about (Cle, Bos, NY, Phx)

[SpursDynasty85]

If Kawhi does indeed want to live in Cali what is his real trade value? Lakers would be the best fit for both it seems. Lakers have a ton of talent. I wouldn't mind Kuzma, Randle, salary filler, plus picks for Kawhi at this point when he could leave in a year. If he signs the extension then asks for a trade then all sorts of possibilities open up but I doubt he does this because he wouldn't want to be in limbo on where he ends up.

[DAF86]

I wouldn't; Tatum and the Kings pick, even if its say 5-10 isn't as good as what PHX can offer, even if they weren't to include the #1 overall pick.

What would Phoenix offer?

[DAF86]

You don't money-ball the first-overall pick. Ignoring the fact that people are just assuming Phoenix would give up only the pick while Boston would give up Tatum-plus, you take the best asset you can get. Then you figure out if you want to move down from there.

I don't pay attention to college ball, who is the guy that the Spurs would draft with the number one pick? Is he a sufire sucess like a Duncan or could he be another Markell Fultz? Because if it's the latter case I would rather have Tatum (who pretty much was the 1st overall pick of last year's draft) and another lottery pick.

[cjw]

I don’t think Kawhi will be traded. I think he signs that DPE. He’s doing this so that what happened to Isiah Thomas doesn’t happen to him and to send a message to SA that he is not here to take less than the SuperMax so don’t try it.

But that’s not a fun narrative for the national media to be running with.

[BillMc]

Chris Carter is very close to Kawhi's group. Impact Sports represented Chris pretty much his whole career and still does.

I found it very interesting that Chris let the cat out of the bag saying, "Boston is for real and the deal is on the table. Lakers will be for real." and the Knicks too will be interested.

Porzingis and their pick this year could be pretty good for starts.

[Robz4000]

I don't pay attention to college ball, who is the guy that the Spurs would draft with the number one pick? Is he a sufire sucess like a Duncan or could he be another Markell Fultz? Because if it's the latter case I would rather have Tatum (who pretty much was the 1st overall pick of last year's draft) and another lottery pick.

Doncic is most likely the #1, and he's basically a younger Ginobili. If the Spurs could get him, Bender/Chriss, and not shitty salary filler (Tyson Chandler?) that would be a nice package.

[mo7888]

Doncic is most likely the #1, and he's basically a younger Ginobili. If the Spurs could get him, Bender/Chriss, and not shitty salary filler (Tyson Chandler?) that would be a nice package.

I think Jackson would be part of the package if they make an offer for Kawhi.

[SpursDynasty85]

I think Jackson would be part of the package if they make an offer for Kawhi.

Not sure PHX would give that away to a chronically injured player.

[Chinook]

I don't pay attention to college ball, who is the guy that the Spurs would draft with the number one pick? Is he a sufire sucess like a Duncan or could he be another Markell Fultz? Because if it's the latter case I would rather have Tatum (who pretty much was the 1st overall pick of last year's draft) and another lottery pick.

Jaren Jackson is a guy I like, as are Doncic and Ayton. To be honest, I don't know too much about the class, and if the choice were between the first-overall pick and the third-overall pick plus assets, I could be on the latter side easily. But I don't see any way PATFO would want to wait another year to pick their guy, especially considering the uncertainty of where the pick will fall and will be at whatever pick.

Ideally, the team knows what specific player they want for Kawhi and then draft that player as late as possible. Like if they want Jaren Jackson, they could guarantee getting him by trading for the first pick. But obviously, if Jackson falls to seventh, getting him and Love for Kawhi would just be better value, since they could send Love to Phoneix for like the 15th- and 31st-overall picks and just add those to their bullpen. But they wouldn't pass up on Jackson (or whomever) altogether just to get like two mediocre picks and Tatum

[mo7888]

Not sure PHX would give that away to a chronically injured player.

I don't think Phoenix goes after Kawhi..but if they decide to the offer has to start with the 1st plus Jackson. If they don't the other competing teams will be able to outbid them. At any rate, until the draft order is set we don't know the finer points of any deal.

[coachmac87]

Jaren Jackson is a guy I like, as are Doncic and Ayton. To be honest, I don't know too much about the class, and if the choice were between the first-overall pick and the third-overall pick plus assets, I could be on the latter side easily. But I don't see any way PATFO would want to wait another year to pick their guy, especially considering the uncertainty of where the pick will fall and will be at whatever pick.

Ideally, the team knows what specific player they want for Kawhi and then draft that player as late as possible. Like if they want Jaren Jackson, they could guarantee getting him by trading for the first pick. But obviously, if Jackson falls to seventh, getting him and Love for Kawhi would just be better value, since they could send Love to Phoneix for like the 15th- and 31st-overall picks and just add those to their bullpen. But they wouldn't pass up on Jackson (or whomever) altogether just to get like two mediocre picks and Tatum

Ayton is clearly #1 pick IMO. But for the Spurs I’d go with Doncic cause he’s a great fit and style of play but tbh he does have bust potential if not put in right situation...although I think the Spurs would be the perfect fit

[TD 21]

Supposedly, they were willing to give up the fourth-overall pick and Bledsoe for Irving, but when Jackson fell, they backed off. The rumor was they considered Josh the top talent and were surprised he fell. I'm not sure how they would value Leonard in relation to Irving, but they have enough assets to beat almost every other team while still not giving up most of their coveted assets.

I don't remember hearing it that way, but I'll take your word for it.

I could be wrong, but I'm still skeptical they'd give up the requisite assets, nor am I convinced they have the best ones and if it's relatively equal, you trade the superstar out of conference.

[CGD]

If Kawhi does indeed want to live in Cali what is his real trade value? Lakers would be the best fit for both it seems. Lakers have a ton of talent. I wouldn't mind Kuzma, Randle, salary filler, plus picks for Kawhi at this point when he could leave in a year. If he signs the extension then asks for a trade then all sorts of possibilities open up but I doubt he does this because he wouldn't want to be in limbo on where he ends up.

Spurs will do the Lakers zero solids. Kawhi, if moved, goes east or to a bullshit team in the west like PHX.

[Ron Swanson]

If Kawhi does indeed want to live in Cali what is his real trade value? Lakers would be the best fit for both it seems. Lakers have a ton of talent. I wouldn't mind Kuzma, Randle, salary filler, plus picks for Kawhi at this point when he could leave in a year. If he signs the extension then asks for a trade then all sorts of possibilities open up but I doubt he does this because he wouldn't want to be in limbo on where he ends up.

I hope they don't give a shit where Kawhi wants to live. If a team from Mars offered a better trade package, RC better be getting on the phone with Elon Musk.

[SpursDynasty85]

I hope they don't give a shit where Kawhi wants to live. If a team from Mars offered a better trade package, RC better be getting on the phone with Elon Musk.

I feel you if Kawhi really is protesting by sitting but I do believe he is putting his health above all currently and wants to be 100%. But if they dont communicate we are left with an asset that could bolt after a year hence giving us less in return whereas if we do a sign and trade we get significantly more i hmm assets to the right suitor.

[tim_duncan_fan]

I would love to have Kuzma and Ingram for Kawhi.

If we were to maximize the potential of both guys....yikes!

[SpursDynasty85]

I would love to have Kuzma and Ingram for Kawhi.

If we were to maximize the potential of both guys....yikes!

Both guys play the same position. Aldridge, Randle, Kuzma, Murray, and insert SG would be a solid line up. But yea. Those Lakers have a lot of solid young talent now.

[tim_duncan_fan]

Both guys play the same position. Aldridge, Randle, Kuzma, Murray, and insert SG would be a solid line up. But yea. Those Lakers have a lot of solid young talent now.

They have so much of it. I'm not big on Randle long term. I prefer not to pay undersized players, ever.

But on the whole, that young squad just needs some corporate knowledge to be a 48-50 win team.

They are more talented than we are, just not as disciplined/ knowledgeable.

Not that we have much discipline either.

[cd021]

What would Phoenix offer?
I would suspect the Bucks and Heat picks plus the Sun's own 2nd (the 15th, 16th, and 31st pick, currently) plus maybe their 2019 1st, lottery protected, or Bender /Chriss.

The deal wouldn't be able to be made official until July 1st but they could agree prior to the draft.

[HarlemHeat37]

Pop would never even think about coaching Marquese Criss, tbh:lol

I like Jackson's potential, have to get him soon before Phoenix kills his future..he's spent the past 2 months being a chucker on a team with no structure, playing stupid basketball(I watch a lot of Suns games, since I've been regularly betting against them)

[Ice009]

If you're trading kawhi for a package based on picks, at least one of those picks need to be in the top 10. 15th as a highest pick is nowhere near good enough for me.

[Ron Swanson]

If you're trading kawhi for a package based on picks, at least one of those picks need to be in the top 10. 15th as a highest pick is nowhere near good enough for me.

I agree.

[Ice009]

We can pretty much get the 15th pick right now just by missing the playoffs. I'm not interested in a package of the 15th, 16th and 31st. One of those picks is going to have to be in the top 10 and closer to the top 5 if we're not getting back a good player along with those picks.

[MannyIsGod]

Doncic is most likely the #1, and he's basically a younger Ginobili. If the Spurs could get him, Bender/Chriss, and not shitty salary filler (Tyson Chandler?) that would be a nice package.

Doncic is no here near the athlete Manu is. That's a shit comparison.

[MannyIsGod]

Jaren Jackson is a guy I like, as are Doncic and Ayton. To be honest, I don't know too much about the class, and if the choice were between the first-overall pick and the third-overall pick plus assets, I could be on the latter side easily. But I don't see any way PATFO would want to wait another year to pick their guy, especially considering the uncertainty of where the pick will fall and will be at whatever pick.

Ideally, the team knows what specific player they want for Kawhi and then draft that player as late as possible. Like if they want Jaren Jackson, they could guarantee getting him by trading for the first pick. But obviously, if Jackson falls to seventh, getting him and Love for Kawhi would just be better value, since they could send Love to Phoneix for like the 15th- and 31st-overall picks and just add those to their bullpen. But they wouldn't pass up on Jackson (or whomever) altogether just to get like two mediocre picks and Tatum

Jackson is not going 1. If the Spurs got the #1 somehow Ayton is a possibility as is Doncic. I like Bagley as well but those two are better. After those 3, however, the talent has question marks, IMO. Porter Jr. barely played this year, for instance. I'd rather have multiple later picks than anything between 3-9 or so.

[MannyIsGod]

I"m very leary of trading with the Celtics. First, Stevens gets more out of his players than anyone else, so I worry about getting anyone from that team and having them live up to what they are doing in Boston. Second, Ainge always seems to win his trades.

[Chinook]

Jackson is not going 1. If the Spurs got the #1 somehow Ayton is a possibility as is Doncic. I like Bagley as well but those two are better. After those 3, however, the talent has question marks, IMO. Porter Jr. barely played this year, for instance. I'd rather have multiple later picks than anything between 3-9 or so.

That's really far removed from the main point, though. Jackson was just a name that came up in my award-winning "Pick Three" thread. The point is that getting the first pick means they can pick the single player they want the most guaranteed, which has a lot of value. Ideally, you play the draft to where you pick the guy you want right before another team would have picked him, and you get compensation to moving down or not lose too much to move up. So you could be right about Jackson going lower (and I suspect you are). Either way, if the Spurs wanted him, then they aren't accepting Tatum and 2019 picks. "Value" is a concept for bad teams.

[duncan2k5]

Yes there is. Windhorst reported on it.

Show me the link to the report saying most players hate kawhi

[duncan2k5]

I do think Spurs are queasy about the supermax bc Kawhi isn’t healthy and I understand Kawhi and his agency (which Carter is close to as they were his agents too) would be upset about that. I am sure his agency has some hardball of his own and might want to spread rumors to force the Spurs. There’s something else going on, there’s some truth to some things but it’s a likely fluid situation IMO and Spurs still hope he will be fine and they can move past this. I am not being naive or blind like duncan2K5 and assume things are peachy but it’s nothing that can’t get resolved.

The only problem that doesn’t have a real solution is Kiwis tendinopathy. Only he knows what’s going on with that and I am giving him credibility that he’s legit hurt.

I never said everything is peachy...im saying i believe kawhi is hurt...and the very small number of ppl that have a problem with it in the spurs camp,have that issue because they want to see manu and tony go out strong

[TheCultOfPersonality]

Don't Celts have the Memphis pick aswell? Why not ask for that instead plus Tatum?

Yes. It's top 8 protected in 2019, top 6 protected in 2020, and unprotected in 2021. And there's a possibility that the Grizzlies could be terrible the next few seasons so this could be a factor.

[Proxy]

trade Kawhi to get rid of Patty or Pau's contract and get the picks and pieces needed to surround Lebron and LMA

[DAF86]

I would suspect the Bucks and Heat picks plus the Sun's own 2nd (the 15th, 16th, and 31st pick, currently) plus maybe their 2019 1st, lottery protected, or Bender /Chriss.

The deal wouldn't be able to be made official until July 1st but they could agree prior to the draft.

And how is that better than Tatum and the Kings pick?

[cd021]

And how is that better than Tatum and the Kings pick?

You mean how is 3, potentially 4 first rounders (lets say 31 is a 1st in this scenario) is better than Tatum and a pick likely in the 5-10 range in next years draft?


I really don't feel like that's a question that needs to be answered, but I will anyway.

the 15th, 16th, 20th (our pick), 31st and 50th in this year's draft.

Spurs could stash three of the five picks and in adddition to saving roster spots moving Kawhi to Phoenix would save at least $15,000,000 next season and theoretically give them about $10,000,000 in cap space.

If the Celtics were to give up Tautum, Kings Pick, Memphis Pick and maybe even the Clippers (lottery protected in 2019 and 2020-unlikely to convey, but still) then that is a better deal but no way Ainge would give up that much. He'd probably be loathe to give up Yabusele and two seconds for Kawhi.

[TD 21]

You mean how is 3, potentially 4 first rounders (lets say 31 is a 1st in this scenario) is better than Tatum and a pick likely in the 5-10 range in next years draft?


I really don't feel like that's a question that needs to be answered, but I will anyway.

the 15th, 16th, 20th (our pick), 31st and 50th in this year's draft.

Spurs could stash three of the five picks and in adddition to saving roster spots moving Kawhi to Phoenix would save at least $15,000,000 next season and theoretically give them about $10,000,000 in cap space.

If the Celtics were to give up Tautum, Kings Pick, Memphis Pick and maybe even the Clippers (lottery protected in 2019 and 2020-unlikely to convey, but still) then that is a better deal but no way Ainge would give up that much. He'd probably be loathe to give up Yabusele and two seconds for Kawhi.

You don't trade a superstar for a bunch of mid round picks, which are unlikely to turn into so much as a foundational player. You have to receive a baseline of certainty that a guy like Tatum provides, in addition to a secondary asset that is capable of providing the same.

[cd021]

Yes. It's top 8 protected in 2019, top 6 protected in 2020, and unprotected in 2021. And there's a possibility that the Grizzlies could be terrible the next few seasons so this could be a factor.

Memphis has no incentive to be bad next season, granted they didn't have one to be bad this season- though injuries played a big factor.

I could see Memphis, finishing 10th in the West next season if Conley and Gasol are healthy plus the have a good chance at the #1 pick so that should help them.
In terms of their pick, it would likely convert next season and likely be a late lottery pick. Tatum plus Memphis' and Sacramento's 1st's is a pretty good start in a Kawhi trade

[cd021]

You don't trade a superstar for a bunch of mid round picks, which are unlikely to turn into so much as a foundational player. You have to receive a baseline of certainty that a guy like Tatum provides, in addition to a secondary asset that is capable of providing the same.

I guess the question that I have is is Tatum really that good- or projects to be that good? Tatum and a 5-10 range Kings pick doesn't seem like nearly enough for me. Adding the Grizzlies pick helps but I would press for the inclusion of the Clippers pick, as well for a deal for Kawhi.

[TD 21]

I guess the question that I have is is Tatum really that good- or projects to be that good? Tatum and a 5-10 range Kings pick doesn't seem like nearly enough for me. Adding the Grizzlies pick helps but I would press for the inclusion of the Clippers pick, as well for a deal for Kawhi.

I don't think Tatum will be a superstar, but star looks more likely than not and the floor looks to be a tier below that.


"I bet their starting point for any negotiations would be Tatum and the Kings pick and let's go from there."

[DAF86]

You mean how is 3, potentially 4 first rounders (lets say 31 is a 1st in this scenario) is better than Tatum and a pick likely in the 5-10 range in next years draft?


I really don't feel like that's a question that needs to be answered, but I will anyway.

the 15th, 16th, 20th (our pick), 31st and 50th in this year's draft.

Spurs could stash three of the five picks and in adddition to saving roster spots moving Kawhi to Phoenix would save at least $15,000,000 next season and theoretically give them about $10,000,000 in cap space.

If the Celtics were to give up Tautum, Kings Pick, Memphis Pick and maybe even the Clippers (lottery protected in 2019 and 2020-unlikely to convey, but still) then that is a better deal but no way Ainge would give up that much. He'd probably be loathe to give up Yabusele and two seconds for Kawhi.

I much rather have two top 10 picks (Tatum and the Kings pick) than 4 mediocre picks that can easily be hit or miss. With those picks you would be lucky to get a Tatum. I really don't see your point at all.

[CGD]

I much rather have two top 10 picks (Tatum and the Kings pick) than 4 mediocre picks that can easily be hit or miss. With those picks you would be lucky to get a Tatum. I really don't see your point at all.

I agree. For every Leonard at 14, there are 30 Chris Singletons picked at a similar slot.

Still, Tatum + Kings pick for Leonard is quiet thin as noted by the poster above. Brown AND the Memphis pick need to be part of the deal. Unless there is another injury, i cant see Memphis having another ultra terrible year and I think it’s likely it conveys next year (Only top 8 protected).

Also, can someone clarify something. Looks like the “Kings” pick can actually still be 2-4 if the Lakers land in one of those slots, right?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sbnation.com/platform/amp/nba/2018/1/4/16849060/celtics-lakers-picks-nba-draft-2018

[CGD]

We can pretty much get the 15th pick right now just by missing the playoffs. I'm not interested in a package of the 15th, 16th and 31st. One of those picks is going to have to be in the top 10 and closer to the top 5 if we're not getting back a good player along with those picks.

The better play is to reroute Love from CLE for the better of 15 or 16 (don’t know all the protections on each) and 31, plus Bender and some salary relief (like chandler/Knight).

Might have to be a three way trade like this where Spurs get Brooklyn pick, Heat/Bucks pick, and suns’ 31: http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ybzs6ujj

Then if there is someone they really like, I’d see about packaging 15/16 with Spurs own pick to move up.

[Mr. Body]

Since other teams will likely show interest, I can't see how Tatum + Kings pick comes anywhere close. They can throw in Brown but even then I think you need another very promising pick. That is, if Kawhi is leaving and is still healthy.

[Down Under]

I don’t think Kawhi will be traded. I think he signs that DPE. He’s doing this so that what happened to Isiah Thomas doesn’t happen to him and to send a message to SA that he is not here to take less than the SuperMax so don’t try it.
You don't think this has anything to do with the injury being misdiagnosed in 2012?

[james evans]

I don't think I trust Popovich and Bufford with draft picks right now. Even if it's the 1st pick.

[james evans]

I don’t think Kawhi will be traded. I think he signs that DPE. He’s doing this so that what happened to Isiah Thomas doesn’t happen to him and to send a message to SA that he is not here to take less than the SuperMax so don’t try it.
well that's the way we do things. Think about this, when Duncan was at his peak, there were years in which Juwon Howard made more than him. The spurs want players to take pay cuts their whole career and then take care of them in the end. Kawhi aint with the bullshit and his uncle is stepping in to not let him be with the bullshit and i don't blame him one bit. Why are millionaire giving BILLIONAIRES discounts to earn a piece of jewelry? The bulls raped Jordan and Pippen for years until Jordan's last 3 years he was making $30 millin a year. That was unheard of at the time and more than some teams' salary cap. That would be equivalent to over $48.5 million today according to inflation. If Duncan in 2013 or 2014 would have asked for that, would he have been wrong?

[Seventyniner]

Just imagine the Spurs trading Kawhi for the pick used to take Jaren Jackson......and then giving him jersey number 2.

[Ice009]

You don't think this has anything to do with the injury being misdiagnosed in 2012?

This is what I posted the other day along with this article http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/14763202/how-biometrics-turned-kawhi-leonard-star

I was wondering if he thinks the Spurs are responsible from misdiagnosing it years ago, and if he now thinks they're the reason it has become an issue for him right now that could also possibly plague him throughout his career.

[Play Boban]

Kawhi is trying to smear the Spurs. They didn’t misdiagnose him. It’s not the Spurs fault he’s a china doll.

[SAGirl]

Pretty grim discussion in sports illustrated. They think Celtics with Tatum isn’t even an option.
https://www.google.com/amp/amp.si.com/nba/2018/04/04/kawhi-leonard-spurs-nba-trade-rumors-celtics-lakers-heat
They place a lot of value in kawhi leaving the team to be in NY, as a sign his attachment to the Spurs is lacking. They also think Kawhi has hurt his trade value a great deal by the fact that he will be FA next summer anyways, and the fact he’s injury prone and has missed an entire season with a mystery injury. I think the Spurs are going to get lowballed and be turned off from any trade deal.

[Down Under]

This is what I posted the other day along with this article http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/14763202/how-biometrics-turned-kawhi-leonard-star

I was wondering if he thinks the Spurs are responsible from misdiagnosing it years ago, and if he now thinks they're the reason it has become an issue for him right now that could also possibly plague him throughout his career.
Yep http://nba.nbcsports.com/2012/11/16/kawhi-leonard-out-up-to-two-weeks-due-to-tendinitis-in-his-left-knee/
Diagnosed as tendinitis - temporary inflammation from overuse, whereas tendonosis/tendinopathy (which it has turned out to be) is degenerative from overuse & heaps more serious. So he would be right to see someone else about this considering the impact it could have on his career.

[SpursBig3s]

Show me the link to the report saying most players hate kawhi



http://news4sanantonio.com/sports/spurs-zone/espns-windhorst-says-some-players-frustrated-kawhi-leonard-is-getting-too-much-love

[hombre]

well that's the way we do things. Think about this, when Duncan was at his peak, there were years in which Juwon Howard made more than him. The spurs want players to take pay cuts their whole career and then take care of them in the end. Kawhi aint with the bullshit and his uncle is stepping in to not let him be with the bullshit and i don't blame him one bit. Why are millionaire giving BILLIONAIRES discounts to earn a piece of jewelry? The bulls raped Jordan and Pippen for years until Jordan's last 3 years he was making $30 millin a year. That was unheard of at the time and more than some teams' salary cap. That would be equivalent to over $48.5 million today according to inflation. If Duncan in 2013 or 2014 would have asked for that, would he have been wrong?

Hell no.

[daslicer]

well that's the way we do things. Think about this, when Duncan was at his peak, there were years in which Juwon Howard made more than him. The spurs want players to take pay cuts their whole career and then take care of them in the end. Kawhi aint with the bullshit and his uncle is stepping in to not let him be with the bullshit and i don't blame him one bit. Why are millionaire giving BILLIONAIRES discounts to earn a piece of jewelry? The bulls raped Jordan and Pippen for years until Jordan's last 3 years he was making $30 millin a year. That was unheard of at the time and more than some teams' salary cap. That would be equivalent to over $48.5 million today according to inflation. If Duncan in 2013 or 2014 would have asked for that, would he have been wrong?

Juwon made more money than Duncan from '97-'03. That was mainly due to Duncan being stuck on his rookie contract deal the first 3 years of his career. The Spurs then re-signed him for what was the Max back in 2000. Even with the max deal Duncan could not make more money than Juwon simply because Juwon signed a 7 year 105 mil contract back before the NBA implemented max contracts . Duncan than opted out of his contract in '03 and re-signed for another Max deal. In both cases Duncan didn't take a discount. Duncan didn't start to take discounts until after his mid 30's. So you are are full of shit with your bull shit narrative.

[HarlemHeat37]

well that's the way we do things. Think about this, when Duncan was at his peak, there were years in which Juwon Howard made more than him. The spurs want players to take pay cuts their whole career and then take care of them in the end. Kawhi aint with the bullshit and his uncle is stepping in to not let him be with the bullshit and i don't blame him one bit. Why are millionaire giving BILLIONAIRES discounts to earn a piece of jewelry? The bulls raped Jordan and Pippen for years until Jordan's last 3 years he was making $30 millin a year. That was unheard of at the time and more than some teams' salary cap. That would be equivalent to over $48.5 million today according to inflation. If Duncan in 2013 or 2014 would have asked for that, would he have been wrong?

Personally, I would always take the money over anything and I think the concept of a discount is stupid(look at how the Mavs have completely wasted the discounts Nowitzki took), but I don't understand when fans criticize a player for doing it..

I'm not going to judge a man for his life priorities..I was shocked that David West left so much $$$ just to chase a ring, but he's a grown man who understands finances..if he thinks he has enough money and would rather have a championship, that's his decision..

In Duncan's case, I don't think Pop brainwashed him, Tim was a grown man..if he chose the winning over money, that's his own choice..

In Kawhi's case, I would take all the money I can get, since he's still young and injury prone, but I'm not going to tell another man how to handle his finances..

[Chinook]

I really have no idea how different I'd be mentally if I had NBA athleticism and skill. But assuming I'm the same, money would not matter to me past a certain point early in my second contract. It sure wouldn't matter to me enough to want to change markets. I'm not saying I'd be all for winning either. I think it would just be a love of the game sort of thing. So long as I considered playing basketball fun and rewarding, I would keep doing it, and once it stopped being fun or rewarding, I'd stop.

[spursistan]

983214772928876544

Heinsohn (Celtics' Sean Eliott) is a hyperbolic homer, but Spurfans contemplating trade scenarios need to get a grip. Leonard has been inexorably eroding his value for about a year now..

He was a Top 3 player in the world in April 2017 but has played 9 games-- non-back to back-- ever since..

The best ability = availability. And some here think Ainge will package two prospects who led Boston to the second seed while being injury-riddled themselves for a guy who has been rehabbing his soreness in Newyork for the entire year :lol.

Don't need any more medical opinions or journalistic sources. There is one blaring fact in this whole saga right now that we all know: A guy who is said to be trying hard to play, but he somehow still can't after several attempts to do so..

His camp has made it clear through their leaks that they are not interested in this whole "family" culture, and so the Spurs should also treat them with the cold logic of business instead of good faith.

He should not be traded (unless for a stupid offer) or be given the Supermax. The most sensible move right now would be to wait it out a little longer (until the pre-season to see how he looks/feel in few games) and then pull the trigger on either direction around September/early October..

[SAGirl]

983214772928876544

Heinsohn (Celtics' Sean Eliott) is a hyperbolic homer, but Spurfans contemplating trade scenarios need to get a grip. Leonard has been inexorably eroding his value for about a year now..

He was a Top 3 player in the world in April 2017 but has played 9 games-- non-back to back-- ever since..

The best ability = availability. And some here think Ainge will package two prospects who led Boston to the second seed while being injury-riddled themselves for a guy who has been rehabbing his soreness in Newyork for the entire year :lol.

Don't need any more medical opinions or journalistic sources. There is one blaring fact in this whole saga right now that we all know: A guy who is said to be trying hard to play, but he somehow still can't after several attempts to do so..

His camp has made it clear through their leaks that they are not interested in this whole "family" culture, and so the Spurs should also treat them with the cold logic of business instead of good faith.

He should not be traded (unless for a stupid offer) or be given the Supermax. The most sensible move right now would be to wait it out a little longer (until the pre-season to see how he looks/feel in few games) and then pull the trigger on either direction around September/early October..
Posted a link from sports illustrated where they come to the same conclusion.
Kawhi has eroded his value and Spurs will get lowballed. The same reason spurfan is tired of the saga is the same reason other franchises will be looking for a firesale and are looking to make like bandits. I tend to think he doesn't get traded and Spurs take the risk to see if he's healthy next season and can repair the relationship like they did with Lamarcus. Hopefully he's fine but if his career as an elite player or a franchise cornerstone is over (bc he may play but can't stay healthy or something else related to the injury), there's nothing they can do.

[YGWHI]

This trade doesn't make any sense.

The C's already signed two max contracts with Irving/Hayward, why would they want other max deal for another wing when they have some type of decent ones in Hayward/Jaylen Brown?

I pick Kawhi over these two all day...But he doesn't have Butler-Hayward-Stevens chemistry and Brown is a great backup/potential starter on many teams.



I tend to think he doesn't get traded
If the Spurs won't trade him on draft night, Chinook will die, tholdren too.

So...having my favorite player on my favorite team one more year while these two guys disappear foreva? Tough decision. :D

[dabom]

The ESPN Boston guys know his going there, and the ESPN LA guys know he is going there, and the NY Basketball scene guys know Kawhi is going there, and the other BS outlets know a guy that knows Kawhi might go there. :lol

Ya need to read between the fucking lines. :lol

[dabom]

And Kawhi is worth more than any fucking rookie or rookies or young non-winning talent.

He is a top 3 player in this fucking league. :lol

None of these other guys might even come close to that. Maybe Simmons from the sixers but that's it.

[YGWHI]

Most of the stars don’t even like Kawhi if you are to believe the reports.


Yes there is. Windhorst reported on it.

Depends what reports you believe. After Windhorst said that about Curry and Kawhi, because we should remember he said that, in a sense that Bron & Co wonder why the league and fans love these two players that much, many people supported both guys calling LeBron and KD insecure and jealous.

Also, we should remember what players -not named LeBron and younger than him- have said about Kawhi.

-Rubio said Kawhi was the most impactful player in the league.

-McCollum defended Kawhi when he wasn't in some Tw list of top 5 players

-Wall said in an interview that Kawhi is a top 5 player without doubt

-Rookies voted him as 3rd favorite player in the league.

Like it or not, young players support Kawhi. In San Antonio, too

We have our old players saying he doesn't talk with the team, while young players tell media they were working and talking with him all time.

The young picks to rebuild, those young assets the Spurs would get in a trade, are part of those young guys who respect him so much.

[YGWHI]

The ESPN Boston guys know his going there, and the ESPN LA guys know he is going there, and the NY Basketball scene guys know Kawhi is going there, and the other BS outlets know a guy that knows Kawhi might go there. :lol

Ya need to read between the fucking lines. :lol

Gotta love Golliver..."oh...he traveled to NYC many times...a husband has a NYC condo while wife whatever...damn...he's in some deal with the Knicks!!" :lol

These media guys are just shit.

[dabom]

Gotta love Golliver..."oh...he traveled to NYC many times...a husband has a NYC condo while wife whatever...damn...he's in some deal with the Knicks!!" :lol

These media guys are just shit.

Terrible posters eat that shit up. :lol

Everyone has an agenda. It's all about clicks. People need to understand the person before commentating on a subject. :lol

[YGWHI]

You don't think this has anything to do with the injury being misdiagnosed in 2012?


I was wondering if he thinks the Spurs are responsible from misdiagnosing it years ago, and if he now thinks they're the reason it has become an issue for him right now that could also possibly plague him throughout his career.

I doubt it. Many people talk about that they mishandled the injury in the summer.

He had an issue in his quad during regular season, he sat the first game of RRT, then he felt better and doctors told him he was fine. But it seems like he needed some quad's specific treatments in the summer that Spurs medical staff didn't suggest/prescribe, the lack of these treatments and him training like always because no one told him otherwise, made the quad got worse.

Anyway, there are many versions about this. Who knows.

[DaBears]

But that’s not a fun narrative for the national media to be running with.

Does any of this Seem like the SPURS & PAFTO? they dont have a track record of paying players if they are not worth it, why are we assuming they do not want to give him the SM.. If they are willing to sign PG to a 3-yr 48 mil deal @ age of 36 then, giving your franchise player max deal is not out of the realm of possibilities.

And to further my observations, i do not believe SPURS misdiagnosed KL in the 1st place. I think it has all been media noise. What i do agree with from above posts is that KL doesnt want what happened to IT happen to him..

[TheGreatYacht]

If you're.a Spurs fan, you better watch the Celtics games. Some of their players can very well be Spurs next season.

[CGD]

983214772928876544

Heinsohn (Celtics' Sean Eliott) is a hyperbolic homer, but Spurfans contemplating trade scenarios need to get a grip. Leonard has been inexorably eroding his value for about a year now..

He was a Top 3 player in the world in April 2017 but has played 9 games-- non-back to back-- ever since..

The best ability = availability. And some here think Ainge will package two prospects who led Boston to the second seed while being injury-riddled themselves for a guy who has been rehabbing his soreness in Newyork for the entire year :lol.

Don't need any more medical opinions or journalistic sources. There is one blaring fact in this whole saga right now that we all know: A guy who is said to be trying hard to play, but he somehow still can't after several attempts to do so..

His camp has made it clear through their leaks that they are not interested in this whole "family" culture, and so the Spurs should also treat them with the cold logic of business instead of good faith.

He should not be traded (unless for a stupid offer) or be given the Supermax. The most sensible move right now would be to wait it out a little longer (until the pre-season to see how he looks/feel in few games) and then pull the trigger on either direction around September/early October..

Guys this is all the Ainge machine trying to drive Leonards price down. He might as well hire Cambridge Analyta to start the internet trolling too. Of course Tatum and Kings pick (probably 8-10 slot NEXT year) have to be the bare bones of a deal

[TheGreatYacht]

Yeah, I wouldn't trade with that lunatic Ainge :lol

Boston are the kings of overvaluing what they have. Cheap bastards. They had lots of deals fall thru because the dumbass wouldn't part ways with Terry Rozier..,.

If it was up to Celtikkks fans, they'd give us Horford, Morris, and Ojeleye

[CGD]

Yeah, I wouldn't trade with that lunatic Ainge :lol

Boston are the kings of overvaluing what they have. Cheap bastards. They had lots of deals fall thru because the dumbass wouldn't part ways with Terry Rozier..,.

If it was up to Celtikkks fans, they'd give us Horford, Morris, and Ojeleye

The good news is that there will be teams that can make credible offers involving decent picks in THIS more talented draft to hopefully keep Boston honest.

1. Clips have 12 and 13 (outside shot at one of those being slightly better) and a peice like Harris. Not great, but 12 and 13 are each probably a better or at least equal shot than next years Kings pick a being good

2. Cleveland has Brooklyn’s pick (prolly around 8) and Love (who can be rerouted).

[TheGreatYacht]

The good news is that there will be teams that can make credible offers involving decent picks in THIS more talented draft to hopefully keep Boston honest.

1. Clips have 12 and 13 (outside shot at one of those being slightly better) and a peice like Harris. Not great, but 12 and 13 are each probably a better or at least equal shot than next years Kings pick a being good

2. Cleveland has Brooklyn’s pick (prolly around 8) and Love (who can be rerouted).
Amick reported that the Clippers are preparing a package for when Kawhi becomes available. Two picks and Harris would be a good get, like you said.

The Lakers and Sixers (both will try to use Kawhi as a selling point to Lebron) will also want in IMO. So the trading partners will be there if Ainge doesn't get over himself.

[CGD]

Amick reported that the Clippers are preparing a package for when Kawhi becomes available. Two picks and Harris would be a good get, like you said.

The Lakers and Sixers (both will try to use Kawhi as a selling point to Lebron) will also want in IMO. So the trading partners will be there if Ainge doesn't get over himself.

Problem with Sixers is that all their non-Simmons, Embid, Fultz contracts are so small that we’d have to essentially take back half there roster, lol.

[mo7888]

Problem with Sixers is that all their non-Simmons, Embid, Fultz contracts are so small that we’d have to essentially take back half there roster, lol.

We don't have to take much back. They have lots of cap space to absorb contracts without sending equal salaries in return.

[sananspursfan21]

There was an article floating around showing what each team could potentially offer for Kawhi. Most were garbage. I kinda liked Indiana’s though. Myles Turner could be something special. Although I’d much rather Kawhi stay.

[ajh18]

Tatum looks great. Get some cap relief too or another pick in the future and I’d do it.

[noles1983]

Celtics need to take one of gasol/mills. Preferably both of those useless fucks.

[CGD]

We don't have to take much back. They have lots of cap space to absorb contracts without sending equal salaries in return.

Good point

[Kawhitstorm]

yuck Tatum and Brown are scrubs compared to Kawhi. And I'm the least Kawhi homer on the site. Would much much much rather go after proven guys in their prime like Lillard and McCollum

CJ is a poorman's Jamal Crawford who dates pasty white girls

[DPG21920]

I would love Tatum AND Brown if SA was forced to trade Kawhi.

[Chillen]

Spurs will most likely bow out in 1st round to Warriors. This offseason franchise needs to sit down with Kawhi and his camp and discuss his health, a supermax deal or if there is friction discuss a trade. The truth will come out eventually but Spurs need to have a sit down with Kawhi and see what he wants and if he wants to remain a Spur. Lots of rumors going on and yes he very well could be injured and his heart is with Spurs still. Obviously it doesn't seem like it when he is nowhere to be seen on Spurs bench.

No you don't let Ainge steal a top 3 player in this league from you. Spurs need to find the best trade package if Leonard wants out.

[BD24]

I would love Tatum AND Brown if SA was forced to trade Kawhi.
This would be best case scenario. Don't really see it happening though, more likely is Tatum and some picks. If Boston isn't willing to part with Tatum you find a different trade partner.

[phxspurfan]

He was a Top 3 player in the world in April 2017 but has played 9 games-- non-back to back-- ever since..

The best ability = availability. And some here think Ainge will package two prospects who led Boston to the second seed while being injury-riddled themselves for a guy who has been rehabbing his soreness in Newyork for the entire year

exactly...WAS a top player. Now who knows. You know who else were top players? Derrick Rose. Brandon Roy. Danny Granger. All top players who aren't in the NBA anymore

[DPG21920]

This would be best case scenario. Don't really see it happening though, more likely is Tatum and some picks. If Boston isn't willing to part with Tatum you find a different trade partner.

Agreed. You need to get a lottery pick (at least one) and at that point you either get some young talent (assuming you can’t get a star which is unlikely) or you have to dump contracts.

So if you aren’t willing to give Tatum + Brown and a lottery pick, then you give Tatum+lottery pick + eat Mills deal.

[BD24]

exactly...WAS a top player. Now who knows. You know who else were top players? Derrick Rose. Brandon Roy. Danny Granger. All top players who aren't in the NBA anymore
In fairness the only one of those guys who was even in the same stratosphere as Kawhi is Rose.

Honestly I think Kawhi was better last year than Rose was his MVP season. MVP that year should have been LeBron anyway.

[BD24]

Agreed. You need to get a lottery pick (at least one) and at that point you either get some young talent (assuming you can’t get a star which is unlikely) or you have to dump contracts.

So if you aren’t willing to give Tatum + Brown and a lottery pick, then you give Tatum+lottery pick + eat Mills deal.
Or Pau deal, I am fine getting rid of either one of those terrible contracts. Honestly not sure the Spurs will ship either one of them out even if given the opportunity.

[DPG21920]

Spurs will most likely bow out in 1st round to Warriors. This offseason franchise needs to sit down with Kawhi and his camp and discuss his health, a supermax deal or if there is friction discuss a trade. The truth will come out eventually but Spurs need to have a sit down with Kawhi and see what he wants and if he wants to remain a Spur. Lots of rumors going on and yes he very well could be injured and his heart is with Spurs still. Obviously it doesn't seem like it when he is nowhere to be seen on Spurs bench.

No you don't let Ainge steal a top 3 player in this league from you. Spurs need to find the best trade package if Leonard wants out.

This is what will happen. It’s not over yet; nothing has been decided even if there are leanings. They, meaning Pop/RC and Kawhi will definitley sit down and put everything on the table.

We will know a lot more this Summer. I think there is a 50% chance that Kawhi stays; that doesn’t mean there weren’t real issues, but the SuperMax is a big deal and when looking at everything “else” there really is truly no reason things should have gone south.

Spurs can pay you. Spurs have a good team and will be able to make moves to keep building. Spurs take care of their players.

I believe that Kawhi meant it when he said there is no beef personally with Pop/RC, but there are other people that are causing friction and everyone has moved on because they have to right now. It will resume when they can actually sit down and have time to address things.

[ace3g]

I would love Tatum AND Brown if SA was forced to trade Kawhi.

+1

[r0drig0lac]

Spurs will most likely bow out in 1st round to Warriors. This offseason franchise needs to sit down with Kawhi and his camp and discuss his health, a supermax deal or if there is friction discuss a trade. The truth will come out eventually but Spurs need to have a sit down with Kawhi and see what he wants and if he wants to remain a Spur. Lots of rumors going on and yes he very well could be injured and his heart is with Spurs still. Obviously it doesn't seem like it when he is nowhere to be seen on Spurs bench.

No you don't let Ainge steal a top 3 player in this league from you. Spurs need to find the best trade package if Leonard wants out.

x1000

[phxspurfan]

This is what will happen. It’s not over yet; nothing has been decided even if there are leanings. They, meaning Pop/RC and Kawhi will definitley sit down and put everything on the table.

We will know a lot more this Summer. I think there is a 50% chance that Kawhi stays; that doesn’t mean there weren’t real issues, but the SuperMax is a big deal and when looking at everything “else” there really is truly no reason things should have gone south.

Spurs can pay you. Spurs have a good team and will be able to make moves to keep building. Spurs take care of their players.

I believe that Kawhi meant it when he said there is no beef personally with Pop/RC, but there are other people that are causing friction and everyone has moved on because they have to right now. It will resume when they can actually sit down and have time to address things.

If this happens guaranteed Spurs FO will ask Tony/Manu to retire (on behalf of Kawhi/Kawhi's camp) to get Kawhi back next year.

[CGD]

I would love Tatum AND Brown if SA was forced to trade Kawhi.

Would also swap Hortford for Pau and 18 if that’s the cost of getting those two and a future Boston pick. Paying 4 dudes near maxes is a big chunk of change, and I’m sure Hortford would be the odd man out of the 4.

[Chinook]

Would also swap Hortford for Pau and 18 if that’s the cost of getting those two and a future Boston pick. Paying 4 dudes near maxes is a big chunk of change, and I’m sure Hortford would be the odd man out of the 4.

I'm pulling the cord to get off here. I'm not touching Horford's money, and I'm damned sure I'm not giving up a pick to make it happen. Unless the Lakers get the second or third pick, I don't see any way I'm giving up 18. If they do have the Lakers pick, then something built around that might help grease the wheels.

[Play Boban]

In fairness the only one of those guys who was even in the same stratosphere as Kawhi is Rose.

Honestly I think Kawhi was better last year than Rose was his MVP season. MVP that year should have been LeBron anyway.
Granger during his peak years was better than Kawhi ever was tbh. Consider the era. tbh.

[cool cat]

Starting Lineup of

C - LMA
F - Gay
F - Tatum
G - Brown
G - Murray

and get a decent pick, hard to pass up. Unlikely to happen.

[Ditty]

Kawhi & Gasol for Tatum, Brown and one of their many 1st round picks they will have in next years draft. Or fuck off Ainge!

[BD24]

Granger during his peak years was better than Kawhi ever was tbh. Consider the era. tbh.
:lol You stupid fuck

[Play Boban]

:lol You stupid fuck
Unlike most people here, I actually watch the games. No one saw him because he played in Indiana, but he was a top 2-3 player during his prime, tbh.

[BackHome]

So far the following teams reported to talk to Spurs about trade:
1. Flakers
2. Philly
3. Celtics
4. Cleveland
5. Clippers.

[mo7888]

So following teams reported to talk to Spurs about trade:
1. Flakers
2. Philly
3. Celtics
4. Cleveland
5. Clippers.

Well, if we want to see a bidding war, those are the teams you want making offers. Clips will start with Harris and both picks. That will be the opening bid (if you will) and the Lakers will go next offering something around Ingram because they won't want to see kawhi on the clippers. Then the question is, will Cleveland, Philly, or Boston be willing to top those?
If nothing else, it should be interesting..

[Trueblood]

Well, if we want to see a bidding war, those are the teams you want making offers. Clips will start with Harris and both picks. That will be the opening bid (if you will) and the Lakers will go next offering something around Ingram because they won't want to see kawhi on the clippers. Then the question is, will Cleveland, Philly, or Boston be willing to top those?
If nothing else, it should be interesting..

Totally agree. These people on here thinking teams will shy away from a one year rental. He's a one year rental that's a top 3 MVP candidate and arguably the best twoway player in the league. Some team will believe he's enough to put him over the top and they'll sell the future for a shot now. Look at what Brooklyn did in that trade with the Celtics. We just have to find a few suckers willing to get into a bidding war.

[exstatic]

Totally agree. These people on here thinking teams will shy away from a one year rental. He's a one year rental that's a top 3 MVP candidate and arguably the best twoway player in the league. Some team will believe he's enough to put him over the top and they'll sell the future for a shot now. Look at what Brooklyn did in that trade with the Celtics. We just have to find a few suckers willing to get into a bidding war.

Exactly what I've been saying. You can't get lowballed with a bunch of teams interested. Someone will ALWAYS geek, and then another team will think, "well I cant let THEM get him", and then another team...

[CGD]

So far the following teams reported to talk to Spurs about trade:
1. Flakers
2. Philly
3. Celtics
4. Cleveland
5. Clippers.

Anyone want to take stab at the “bare bones” offer each team would have to make to entice the Spurs?

[CGD]

Well, if we want to see a bidding war, those are the teams you want making offers. Clips will start with Harris and both picks. That will be the opening bid (if you will) and the Lakers will go next offering something around Ingram because they won't want to see kawhi on the clippers. Then the question is, will Cleveland, Philly, or Boston be willing to top those?
If nothing else, it should be interesting..

Yeah, and order of operations, as you suggest, will be key. You want to Clips or Cleveland go first, and then maybe Boston or Philly last.

[mo7888]

Yeah, and order of operations, as you suggest, will be key. You want to Clips or Cleveland go first, and then maybe Boston or Philly last.

That would be ideal.

If Cleveland hopes to keep LeBron they have no choice but to bring in someone like Kawhi.

[BD24]

That would be ideal.

If Cleveland hopes to keep LeBron they have no choice but to bring in someone like Kawhi.
Honestly Cleveland doesn't have enough to offer. We need to get a promising young prospect out of Kawhi at least, someone like Ingram or Tatum.

[mo7888]

Honestly Cleveland doesn't have enough to offer. We need to get a promising young prospect out of Kawhi at least, someone like Ingram or Tatum.

The Brooklyn pic, Love, zizic, and is man for Kawhi and patty is pretty compelling. We could reroute Love somewhere for additional compensation.

[BD24]

The Brooklyn pic, Love, zizic, and is man for Kawhi and patty is pretty compelling. We could reroute Love somewhere for additional compensation.
I guess. Would rather get a promising young prospect personally. The draft is just such a crap shoot, even inside the top 10 tbh.

[MoSpur02]

My source says that Boston is actually interested. It's not really news, but there is actual real interest from the Celts. If it actually comes down to it R.C better not mess up and better not do it for less than Tatum, Brown, and their draft pick.

[DPG21920]

My source says that Boston is actually interested. It's not really news, but there is actual real interest from the Celts. If it actually comes down to it R.C better not mess up and better not do it for less than Tatum, Brown, and their draft pick.

There is real interest from everyone.

[MoSpur02]

True. However, they made it seem like it's serious interest.

[offset formation]

I'd like to see Utah and Milwaukee get involved.

I obviously love Mitchell, just by himself. And I think Middleton and Parker plus a pick or two could be a nice swap.

[exstatic]

My source says that Boston is actually interested. It's not really news, but there is actual real interest from the Celts. If it actually comes down to it R.C better not mess up and better not do it for less than Tatum, Brown, and their draft pick.


True. However, they made it seem like it's serious interest.

Danny had better be prepared to push a BUNCH of chip into the pot. Spurs won’t give him away, knowing what’s in Boston’s cupboard.

[mo7888]

Do any of you think Hayward is part of a potential Boston deal? I just don't think Boston wants to pay kawhi, Hayward, horford, and kyrie. I also don't think we would take horford and they won't offer kyrie.

[ceds]

I'd like to see Utah and Milwaukee get involved.

I obviously love Mitchell, just by himself. And I think Middleton and Parker plus a pick or two could be a nice swap.

That's penny's on the dollar tbh

top 5 pick + young player x 2 at a minimum

[MoSpur02]

I don't see Hayward being part of the deal. Anything could happen though. If I'm R.C I don't take back long term contracts and anything less than their two young stars and their pick.

[MoSpur02]

Hypothetical question here...if by some chance the Spurs do trade Kawhi for Tatum, Brown, and their pick, would the Spurs have the money to go after LeBron?

[DPG21920]

Hypothetical question here...if by some chance the Spurs do trade Kawhi for Tatum, Brown, and their pick, would the Spurs have the money to go after LeBron?

No

[MoSpur02]

Okay.

[mo7888]

Hypothetical question here...if by some chance the Spurs do trade Kawhi for Tatum, Brown, and their pick, would the Spurs have the money to go after LeBron?

If we made several other moves...maybe... we'd need to move pau, mills, have gay and Danny opt out.

[DPG21920]

Okay.

Spurs with Kawhi as everything currently stands are at 98M in salaries as of now (not counting the free agents/cap holds). Cap is at 101M.

If you assume Bron wants his max, SA would need roughly 34M in cap space. So without getting complicated and assuming SA trades with BOS, SA would need to move about 32M (Because they can trade Kawhi for some less money back than he currently makes).

So trading Pau and having Danny/Rudy opt out and let go would do the trick (amongst other cap gymnastics that SA controls with cap holds and draft pick salaries etc..)

[MoSpur02]

If the Spurs move Kawhi to Boston and in return get Brown and Tatum, Brown would be replacing Green correct? So letting Green go would be fine.

[CGD]

If the Spurs move Kawhi to Boston and in return get Brown and Tatum, Brown would be replacing Green correct? So letting Green go would be fine.

Danny is going to be interesting. I don’t know what his market is going to be in a tight 201& FA market and coming off a not so good season. He might opt in, at which point I’m sure spurs shop his expiring before Feb 2019.

[MoSpur02]

Would rather have Derek (Loyalty) Anderson than Kawhi at this point

[BatManu20]

If the Spurs move Kawhi to Boston and in return get Brown and Tatum, Brown would be replacing Green correct? So letting Green go would be fine.


I’m 90% sure we would not get both.


It would likely be one of Tatum/Brown + Rozier & Marcus Morris (to match salaries) + Kings 2019 Pick + Memphis 2019/20 Pick.

[Ice009]

I’m 90% sure we would not get both.


It would likely be one of Tatum/Brown + Rozier & Marcus Morris (to match salaries) + Kings 2019 Pick + Memphis 2019/20 Pick.

Well then, we don't deal with Boston. Ainge can shove it up his ass. I want both at a minimum.

[TheGreatYacht]

Celtics resting Jaylen Brown :wakeup

[testies]

The autistic will force us to trade him where he wants. If we want to trade him to Boston, his agent will call them and say he won't resign next year. Rinse and repeat until we trade him to california.

[DPG21920]

The autistic will force us to trade him where he wants. If we want to trade him to Boston, his agent will call them and say he won't resign next year. Rinse and repeat until we trade him to california.

Worked out well for Paul George.

[testies]

Worked out well for Paul George.

Can we somehow get George and Tatum? That would be my dream scenario

[DPG21920]

Can we somehow get George and Tatum? That would be my dream scenario

Sure - just pretty damn unlikely. Getting Tatum is the easier part if SA is willing to trade Kawhi. It’s getting PG to sign and trade or sign out right (and the moves it would take for SA to get cap space).

Just assume at this point, nothing is on the table for signing Free Agents using cap space unless both Rudy/Danny opt out. IF that happens, then there is potential for cap space. Especially if that happens and Mills or Pau is dumped for less salary than they make.

[TheGreatYacht]

Can we somehow get George and Tatum? That would be my dream scenario
No, but the Lakers can get George and Leonard.

[exstatic]

The autistic will force us to trade him where he wants. If we want to trade him to Boston, his agent will call them and say he won't resign next year. Rinse and repeat until we trade him to california.

He loses $35M the minute we trade him. If he walks from Boston at the end of next year, he loses ANOTHER $40M. He’s not got a lot of leverage in this.

[DPG21920]

No, but the Lakers can get George and Leonard.

Good luck with that. They better focus on just getting Paul George :lol. Could you imagine a player of PG caliber saying he wants to go to LA then you let OKC trade for him and he doesn’t sign with you??? That would be a disaster.

[exstatic]

Can we somehow get George and Tatum? That would be my dream scenario

Why on Earth would anyone want PG13? He’s more of a beta than Durant.

[TheGreatYacht]

He loses $35M the minute we trade him. If he walks from Boston at the end of next year, he loses ANOTHER $40M. He’s not got a lot of leverage in this.
The minute he gets traded to LA he'll get a $100M shoe endorsement. He's got all the leverage in the world.

[exstatic]

Good luck with that. They better focus on just getting Paul George :lol. Could you imagine a player of PG caliber saying he wants to go to LA then you let OKC trade for him and he doesn’t sign with you??? That would be a disaster.

The thing is, LA could have traded for him last year. They had better assets at the time. They used those assets to create cap room, a very dicey commodity.

What I would love is if LA signed both PG13and LeBron and left Kawhi with no landing spot. His price would SKYROCKET.

[exstatic]

The minute he gets traded to LA he'll get a $100M shoe endorsement. He's got all the leverage in the world.

He’s already a DPOY and FMVP, and Jordan brand is only paying him $5M per year. Do you know why? He’s got the personality of a drug store wooden Indian. Market size has become nearly irrelevant in the age of social media. Besides, Boston has as much or more cachet than the Lakers.

[spursistan]

I would trade Kawhi for Brad Stevens straight up :lol..

[TheGreatYacht]

He’s already a DPOY and FMVP, and Jordan brand is only paying him $5M per year. Do you know why? He’s got the personality of a drug store wooden Indian. Market size has become nearly irrelevant in the age of social media. Besides, Boston has as much or more cachet than the Lakers.
D Rose is making $11M per, and he has the personality of whataburger Patty melt.

No business wants anything to do with San Antonio. That's why a 5x champion never got the respect he deserved.

Thank god Kawhi is surrounded by smart individuals.

[TheGreatYacht]

I would trade Kawhi for Brad Stevens straight up :lol..
I'd trade bronze medal winning Poop for Aron Baynes tbh.

[jermaine]

The Celtics are in the 2nd round with their you core.. WITHOUT THEIR 2 STARS!!!! Why in Sam hell would they trade away thst for a quiter or injury prone mute who's uncle controls him talking to management!?! Not to mention giving up picks too.

[CGD]

It feels like the best theyre gonna get is that Clips deal, Harris and their 2 picks. Leonard’s uncle can just say, nah, only place he’s extending is LA, so we’ll wait it out until UFA.

[SAGirl]

The Celtics are in the 2nd round with their you core.. WITHOUT THEIR 2 STARS!!!! Why in Sam hell would they trade away thst for a quiter or injury prone mute who's uncle controls him talking to management!?! Not to mention giving up picks too.
Yup. I never believed Celtics are even remotely interested unless it was in a firesale, like them sending us Hayward who also missed a season with an ugly fracture and wasn't ever as good as Kiwi was... No thanks Boston.

[raybies]

The Celtics are in the 2nd round with their you core.. WITHOUT THEIR 2 STARS!!!! Why in Sam hell would they trade away thst for a quiter or injury prone mute who's uncle controls him talking to management!?! Not to mention giving up picks too.
I was literally coming here to make a thread of all things about the same... If we were lucky enough to get 2 of the Brown, Tatum, and Rozier three, why would they include a draft pick... They are best not making a move at all tbh. They got a young cheap workforce while they pay Irving, Hayward and Horford and then when they come up to the end of the contracts they have the leverage. Take pay cuts or we go young. They are already winning with Rozier, Brown and Tatum. Boston gonna be adding banners someday soon. Philly and Boston are the future if they stay healthy and they have some long ass windows if they keep it together and don't screw it up.

Like I said, Boston would be stupid to part with their core for Leonard cause they have a very bright future.

[TheGreatYacht]

It feels like the best theyre gonna get is that Clips deal, Harris and their 2 picks. Leonard’s uncle can just say, nah, only place he’s extending is LA, so we’ll wait it out until UFA.
Yep....

Spurs would go into the draft with 3 (potentially 4, if they trade LMA) Top 20 draft picks. Let them develop for 3 years while the Fatty/Gasoft albatrosses expire & Parker gets his wish of a 20 year career. Best case scenario for sure.

[spursistan]

There is also this theory that Brad Stevens is making Tatum/Brown/Rozier look better than they are..I would be actually weary to trade a healthy Kawhi for one of these dudes to be coached by 2018 Poop :lol..

[SAGirl]

There is also this theory that Brad Stevens is making Tatum/Brown/Rozier look better than they are..I would be actually weary to trade a healthy Kawhi for one of these dudes to be coached by 2018 Poop :lol..
They are all young and talented though (high lotto picks and Rozier has improved shooting).
Discrediting what they have done bc of the system is like discrediting what Kiwi did back b4 he was an established star bc of the system...

[CGD]

Yep....

Spurs would go into the draft with 3 (potentially 4, if they trade LMA) Top 20 draft picks. Let them develop for 3 years while the Fatty/Gasoft albatrosses expire & Parker gets his wish of a 20 year career. Best case scenario for sure.

It’s not a bad benchmark to have actually, and who knows, maybe Leonarda uncle is down with NYC. The will NYC try to top the Clip offer with a package centered around KP + Pick? If NYC becomes a player then division rivals BOS and PHI perk up.

[TimDunkem]

There is also this theory that Brad Stevens is making Tatum/Brown/Rozier look better than they are..I would be actually weary to trade a healthy Kawhi for one of these dudes to be coached by 2018 Poop :lol..

Pop would run the offense through Fatty or 41 year old Manu in a lineup with all three of Tatum/Brown/Rozier reduced to the role of spot up shooters. :lol

[SuperCam]

if you get jason tatum you do it tbh. he would be miles better than the culture scrubs from day 0 :lol

[KDKSpurs24]

If I was Boston I wouldn’t many ANY trades at all. This team will be amazing when healthy. Even the stars will fit nicely together and they will move the ball really well.

[TheGreatYacht]

Brad Stevens is the coach casuals think Poop is, tbh. :lol

Winning playoff games without his top 3 players, wow....

[KDKSpurs24]

There is also this theory that Brad Stevens is making Tatum/Brown/Rozier look better than they are..I would be actually weary to trade a healthy Kawhi for one of these dudes to be coached by 2018 Poop :lol..
I’ve been watching Rozier closely and that’s definitely not the case. He’s been taking and making huge shots. Tonight he’s been great.

[SAGirl]

Pop would run the offense through Fatty or 41 year old Manu in a lineup with with all three of Tatum/Brown/Rozier reduced to the role of spot up shooters. :lol
Disgusting and only half trolling... Part of me wants the team to tank... Although I have been vocal about it. I am as disgusted as everyone else with the status of the team. Kiwi turning into a diva is the cherry on top.

[TimDunkem]

I’ve been watching Rozier closely and that’s definitely not the case. He’s been taking and making huge shots. Tonight he’s been great.

That's what a dynamic guard looks like. Unfortunately, we have to watch a fat thieving Aussie scrub, an IG baller, and geriatrics handle the ball for the Spurs.

[spursistan]

Pop would run the offense through Fatty or 41 year old Manu in a lineup with all three of Tatum/Brown/Rozier reduced to the role of spot up shooters. :lol
991147372058116098
Thinkin' those numbers will translate in SA :lmao

[SAGirl]

991147372058116098
Thinkin' those numbers will translate in SA :lmao
Would instantly be the Spurs best guard. He might be overwhelmed from having to carry geriatrics and shooters that can't shoot though.

He's due for an extension. At some point Ainge has to trade guys out bc he can't afford to pay everybody.

[Emperor]

So Tatum/Rozier and a pick certainly seems like a pretty good option for Kawhi now :)

[cd021]

The minute he gets traded to LA he'll get a $100M shoe endorsement. He's got all the leverage in the world.

He isn't getting traded to L.A so he really doesn't

[cd021]

So Tatum/Rozier and a pick certainly seems like a pretty good option for Kawhi now :)

1 pick definitely isn't enough tbh

[Emperor]

1 pick definitely isn't enough tbh

Let's just hope Ainge is kind enough to add that second pick depending on how far the Celts advance these playoffs.

[SuperCam]

1 pick definitely isn't enough tbh

if jason tatum keeps scoring 25+ in the playoffs while kiwi limps around NY while his uncle drags him around it will be spur having to throw in the pick

[DaBears]

Danny had better be prepared to push a BUNCH of chip into the pot. Spurs won’t give him away, knowing what’s in Boston’s cupboard.

Boston would have a sick team... Kyre I. | G. Hayward | Kiwi | & swamp-thing... Those 3 are nice trio to have in a starting lineup.

[DaBears]

So Tatum/Rozier and a pick certainly seems like a pretty good option for Kawhi now :).

You have to look at it like this.. Best case scenario what is the ceiling for both of these players you've mentioned..

Tatum - Best case scenario what is his ceiling as a player? Better than Kiwi by Year 6..
Rozier - Best case Scenario, what is his ceiling as a player? Better than TP in his prime or a better version of Rod Strickland ( and going back some years )? If either of these players ceiling doesnt match or come close than it needs to be more..

[Emperor]

.

You have to look at it like this.. Best case scenario what is the ceiling for both of these players you've mentioned..

Tatum - Best case scenario what is his ceiling as a player? Better than Kiwi by Year 6..
Rozier - Best case Scenario, what is his ceiling as a player? Better than TP in his prime or a better version of Rod Strickland ( and going back some years )? If either of these players ceiling doesnt match or come close than it needs to be more..

Absolutely agree but the more they impress these playoffs the more Ainge might be willing to play hardball with the Spurs. He could use the argument that his team managed to get this far without their two best players and Kawhi so he may not be willing to give up too much in return. If they end up in the Conference Finals then why would they even be interested in Kawhi and "his group" and his possible chronic quad pain when all they would possibly need is Kyrie and Hayward to return to achieve the next step. The loser of this Celtics/76ers series would be the ones the Spurs might be able to get more out of if they show interest.

[cd021]

Absolutely agree but the more they impress these playoffs the more Ainge might be willing to play hardball with the Spurs. He could use the argument that his team managed to get this far without their two best players and Kawhi so he may not be willing to give up too much in return. If they end up in the Conference Finals then why would they even be interested in Kawhi and "his group" and his possible chronic quad pain when all they would possibly need is Kyrie and Hayward to return to achieve the next step. The loser of this Celtics/76ers series would be the ones the Spurs might be able to get more out of if they show interest.

If Philly is interested then they could put together a more than competitive offer; something like

Fultz, Saric, Covington, and 10th pick

For Kawhi and Mills

[cd021]

if jason tatum keeps scoring 25+ in the playoffs while kiwi limps around NY while his uncle drags him around it will be spur having to throw in the pick

Leonard isn't coming off a major injury (though, with him every injury is a major injury amirite? :lol)

To be serious, moving a legit top 3 player for last year 3rd pick and Rozier plus the Kings pick (probably around 7th Next year) is Ainge's kind of trade. He gets the best player without giving up all that much to do so.

Th Kings and Grizzlies picks (which both would probably fall into the 7-13 range next year) on top of Rozier and Tatum and Morris ( I think he would have to be included to match up salary) is much more of a fair deal.

Spurs would have three picks next season, to go along with Tatum, Murray, and this year's pick to help the rebuild.

Boston would have a core of Hayward, Horford, Kyrie, Kawhi and Brown too.