Shams: Spurs & Toronto Engaged in Serious Trade Talks Centered Around Kawhi & DeRozan

[Kawhitstorm]

:lmao Lowry's only a better 3-point shooter, play maker, rebounder and defender and rates as superior in virtually every catch all advanced stat. But who needs all that when you got volume scoring. What is this, 1998?

Either not closely enough or they're archaic/swayed by politics.

No, he didn't.


Cunningham has spent 60, 74 and 70% respectively at SF, in 3 of the past 4 seasons, making 158 starts in that time. Pop was starting 3 and D wings before it became in vogue and though not a legit starter or wing, he's the closest this team has to that. I'd say that's pretty sound logic.

I said DeRozan-Millsap is debatable and about context. Still don't have basic reading comprehension, I see.


Condolences, I'm glad I don't have to deal w/ those ShittyFO fluffers:lol

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Condolences, I'm glad I don't have to deal w/ those ShittyFO fluffers:lol

GTFO Apo!

[apalisoc_9]

Lowry has been the Raps best player for two seasons now.

I get that you have 3 kids now timvp, you dont have to pretend you watch as much as before.

Lebron
KD
Kawhi
Steph
Westhrook
Harden
Giannis
Lillard
George
Thompson
Butler
Gobert
Irving
Davis

And about 7-8 more players can be dabted that they're all better like Jokic etc.

TIMVP really think this dude is close to a top 10 player. Shows you how he hasent been follpwing the league after all.

Even oladipo had a better season

https://www.thecoli.com/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/mjlol.png

[cutewizard]

Lowry has been the Raps best player for two seasons now.

I get that you have 3 kids now timvp, you dont have to pretend you watch as much as before.

Lebron
KD
Kawhi
Steph
Westhrook
Harden
Giannis
Lillard
George
Thompson
Butler
Gobert
Irving
Davis

And about 7-8 more players can be dabted that they're all better like Jokic etc.

TIMVP really think this dude is close to a top 10 player. Shows you how he hasent been follpwing the league after all.

Even oladipo had a better season

https://www.thecoli.com/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/mjlol.png


Kawhi is not top 3.....

Obviously

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GhY0-vKMMM

[Mugen]

I'm gonna be pissed that shitbag Pau is going to take away rotation minutes from a young big like Poertl.

Current make up of the roster is absolutely atrocious and a lot of guys are going to be playing out of position to their detriment (Derozan, Gay, Poertl, LMA) :lol

[lmbebo]

https://sports.yahoo.com/rumor-celtics-offered-most-best-120008656.html

In addition to all their own, the Celtics have three extra first-round picks:


Higher of the Kings’ and 76ers (https://sports.yahoo.com/nba/teams/phi)’ in 2019 – unless it’s No. 1, in which case Boston would get the lower of the two picks
Grizzlies’ top-eight-protected in 2019, top-six-protected in 2020 or unprotected in 2021
Clippers’ lottery-protected in 2019 and 2020 – though if not conveyed either of those years, it becomes the Clippers’ 2022 second-rounder

That Sacramento pick is a huge asset, and the Memphis pick is sneaky valuable.
Plus, the Celtics would have had to match Leonard’s salary. They really don’t have any bad contracts. Unless they planned to send a drastically overpaid Marcus Smart (http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nba/2126/marcus-smart) to San Antonio in a sign-and-trade, their offer must have also included positive-value players.

[BatManu20]

Mouthpiece

1022574175112847369

[exstatic]

https://sports.yahoo.com/rumor-celtics-offered-most-best-120008656.html

In addition to all their own, the Celtics have three extra first-round picks:


Higher of the Kings’ and 76ers (https://sports.yahoo.com/nba/teams/phi)’ in 2019 – unless it’s No. 1, in which case Boston would get the lower of the two picks
Grizzlies’ top-eight-protected in 2019, top-six-protected in 2020 or unprotected in 2021
Clippers’ lottery-protected in 2019 and 2020 – though if not conveyed either of those years, it becomes the Clippers’ 2022 second-rounder

That Sacramento pick is a huge asset, and the Memphis pick is sneaky valuable.
Plus, the Celtics would have had to match Leonard’s salary. They really don’t have any bad contracts. Unless they planned to send a drastically overpaid Marcus Smart (http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nba/2126/marcus-smart) to San Antonio in a sign-and-trade, their offer must have also included positive-value players.

That was exactly what was rumored.

[gospursgojas]

Mouthpiece

1022574175112847369

What uncle Dennis have Jabrari say today?

[bklynspursfan]

1022940140556046336

[SpursforSix]

1022940140556046336

:lol

[gambit1990]

how untouchable was siakam? the dude put up 33/14/4 tonight on 60% shooting.

[spursistan]

RC got wrecked in this trade. Sorry to say it.

I don't care if it was a rental. Trading a legit Top 3-5 player in the world + All-NBA defender (with great reputation among 'woke' GMs/VORP twitter) on a friendly contract for an empty calories serial playoff choker on big money + 3rd string big was complete heist by Masai.

It is not like the were no perception that Toronto needed to shake it up themselves by moving Derozan. So a failure from our part to include Gasol or Mills instead of Green (who could have been traded for an asset to a contender later on) is truly unforgivable.

[BatManu20]

Spurs were always going to get worked in this trade. You have nephew to thank for that.

[Rusty]

Well if Kawhi walks, Toronto loses the trade as well

[Deano]

Well if Kawhi walks, Toronto loses the trade as well
Not really. They dumped Derozan's $30 mil contract

[DPG21920]

Bump

[Ariel]

A recap of the original trade and follow ups:

Traded Kawhi Leonard + Danny Green to Toronto for DeMar DeRozan + Jakob Poeltl + Toronto's 2019 1st round pick.
Drafted Keldon Johnson using Toronto's 2019 1st (#29)
Got Detroit's 2022 1st by taking in Hutchinson
Traded DDR for Thaddeus Young + Al Farouq Aminu + Chicago's 2025 1st (protected 10/8/8) + Lakers 2022 2nd + Chicago's 2025 2nd
Traded Thaddeus Young + Eubanks + Detroit's 2022 2nd for Toronto's 2022 1st + Goran Dragic
Drafted Branham using Toronto's 2022 1st (#20)
Traded Lakers' 2022 2nd for Lakers' 2024 2nd (by drafting Kennedy Chandler and trading his rights to Memphis)

So to this date the balance is something like this:
COSTS:


One year's worth of Kawhi Leonard (was gone anyway)
Danny Green (31 y.o.)
Drew Eubanks (:lol)
took in the expiring contracts of Hutchinson, Aminu, Young (half a season) & Dragic (half a season)

BENEFITS:

3 seasons of DDR (hey... it's technically accurate...)
Jakob Poeltl (4 seasons + whatever we can get for him)
Keldon Johnson (Toronto's 2019 1st)
Malaki Branham (Toronto's 2022 1st)
Chicago's 2025 1st (protected 10/8/8)
Lakers' 2024 2nd
Chicago's 2025 2nd

Probably the Spurs could have gotten a better deal for Kawhi in the first place, but in time and taking in consideration subsequent moves, the return for what would have been one season of a disgruntled and often injured Leonard doesn't seem too bad, does it?

[DPG21920]

Yup - they made some lemonade at least lately by getting something for DeRozan and letting him go.

[CGD]

Don’t forget the cup of coffee Damare Carrol had here!

Would have been nice if we would have gotten something for Bertans other than the trade exception used to sign Carroll.

[lefty]

LMAO how dumb is Toronto?

Anyways, if we manage to get rid of Pau I will start to get excited
It helped them get their 1st ring, so it worked out ok tbh

[lefty]

Let’s freeze uncle dennis and mute ass to death in Canada. Do it RC.


I hope Jabari and Uncle Dennis both enjoy long ass winters :lol
Got a new ring and they moved to sunny California

Worked out ok tbh

[TD 21]

:lmao At the spin jobs. It is the worst trade in the history of at least the NBA and the '19 Craptors are tainted since that iteration would have never existed had Scumbag's antics not inexplicably been rewarded.

Further destroying their credibility is the Warriors would have beaten them with relative ease had they been remotely healthy.

[lefty20]

Mfs really forgetting that teams were lowballing like crazy cuz Nephew's camp had made it know that there was a 100% chance of him bolting to LA. Even Lakers lowballed us thinking Nephew was guaranteed to land in their lap one way or another.

Fwiw, I do wish that we had rebuilt by trading for trash and picks instead of trying to compete with DDR. But it's not like PATFO were drowning in top tier trade offers and happened to chose the worst one. That's just some revisionist bs.

[Ariel]

Mfs really forgetting that teams were lowballing like crazy cuz Nephew's camp had made it know that there was a 100% chance of him bolting to LA. Even Lakers lowballed us thinking Nephew was guaranteed to land in their lap one way or another.

Fwiw, I do wish that we had rebuilt by trading for trash and picks instead of trying to compete with DDR. But it's not like PATFO were drowning in top tier trade offers and happened to chose the worst one. That's just some revisionist bs.
Yeah, circumstances matter, and at the time it was really difficult getting back equivalent value with everything going on. But my biggest gripe isn't so much with what we got, but with the direction that the team took, which set us back 3 years. That's not on Kawhi, and it wasn't all that difficult to see. Ainge figured it out much sooner, and from a much better starting point... so no excuses.

[BillMc]

A recap of the original trade and follow ups:

Traded Kawhi Leonard + Danny Green to Toronto for DeMar DeRozan + Jakob Poeltl + Toronto's 2019 1st round pick.
Drafted Keldon Johnson using Toronto's 2019 1st (#29)
Got Detroit's 2022 1st by taking in Hutchinson
Traded DDR for Thaddeus Young + Al Farouq Aminu + Chicago's 2025 1st (protected 10/8/8) + Lakers 2022 2nd + Chicago's 2025 2nd
Traded Thaddeus Young + Eubanks + Detroit's 2022 2nd for Toronto's 2022 1st + Goran Dragic
Drafted Branham using Toronto's 2022 1st (#20)
Traded Lakers' 2022 2nd for Lakers' 2024 2nd (by drafting Kennedy Chandler and trading his rights to Memphis)

So to this date the balance is something like this:
COSTS:


One year's worth of Kawhi Leonard (was gone anyway)
Danny Green (31 y.o.)
Drew Eubanks (:lol)
took in the expiring contracts of Hutchinson, Aminu, Young (half a season) & Dragic (half a season)

BENEFITS:

3 seasons of DDR (hey... it's technically accurate...)
Jakob Poeltl (4 seasons + whatever we can get for him)
Keldon Johnson (Toronto's 2019 1st)
Malaki Branham (Toronto's 2022 1st)
Chicago's 2025 1st (protected 10/8/8)
Lakers' 2024 2nd
Chicago's 2025 2nd

Probably the Spurs could have gotten a better deal for Kawhi in the first place, but in time and taking in consideration subsequent moves, the return for what would have been one season of a disgruntled and often injured Leonard doesn't seem too bad, does it?

And if you extrapolated it back to the original Hill trade for Kawhi and Bertans it becomes sort of amazing. For Hill we got X number years of Kawhi, 2 DPOY, a Final's MVP, 1 Ring + Y number of years of Davis all in addition to what you mentioned.:toast

[Ditty]

Jakob > OG

[MarCowMar]

And if you extrapolated it back to the original Hill trade for Kawhi and Bertans it becomes sort of amazing. For Hill we got X number years of Kawhi, 2 DPOY, a Final's MVP, 1 Ring + Y number of years of Davis all in addition to what you mentioned.:toast

I love tracing back to that original George Hill pick. It's like swapping a Gameboy into a house over several years.

Is there a more valuable pick in NBA history? Ginobili is the closest comparison I can think of, and there are some other late round picks that were very nice hits, but they didn't usually get cycled back into more picks. Maybe the Goebert or Dejounte trades will become comparable.

[CGD]

I love tracing back to that original George Hill pick. It's like swapping a Gameboy into a house over several years.

Is there a more valuable pick in NBA history? Ginobili is the closest comparison I can think of, and there are some other late round picks that were very nice hits, but they didn't usually get cycled back into more picks. Maybe the Goebert or Dejounte trades will become comparable.

White trade also has this potential. So far it’s netted Blake, Richardson, and maybe a decent swap in 2028 of Tatum leaves Boston by then.

Hell Romeo May even be flippable soon.

[cjw]

And if you extrapolated it back to the original Hill trade for Kawhi and Bertans it becomes sort of amazing. For Hill we got X number years of Kawhi, 2 DPOY, a Final's MVP, 1 Ring + Y number of years of Davis all in addition to what you mentioned.:toast

You forgot Demarre Carroll in your math!

[Leetonidas]

Trying to modify the Kawhi trade to include all the things obtained years later after DD was traded it silly. Might as well go back and say the George Hill was the greatest trade of all time :lol

Not saying it didn't even out over the years but the fact remains Spurs trade was Leonard and Green for DD/Jak/29. Adding Young and picks, etc made in subsequent moves is just face saving tbh

[Ariel]

Trying to modify the Kawhi trade to include all the things obtained years later after DD was traded it silly. Might as well go back and say the George Hill was the greatest trade of all time :lol

Not saying it didn't even out over the years but the fact remains Spurs trade was Leonard and Green for DD/Jak/29. Adding Young and picks, etc made in subsequent moves is just face saving tbh
It's true that if we go back we can trace every trade to the flapping of a butterfly's wings millions of years ago, but the point is that was the centerpiece of every asset listed there, so we wouldn't have had DDR/Poeltl/Keldon + subsequent assets, and that's a fact. Not sufficient, but necessary.

[exstatic]

Trying to modify the Kawhi trade to include all the things obtained years later after DD was traded it silly. Might as well go back and say the George Hill was the greatest trade of all time :lol

Not saying it didn't even out over the years but the fact remains Spurs trade was Leonard and Green for DD/Jak/29. Adding Young and picks, etc made in subsequent moves is just face saving tbh

I once wrote a piece on how GH3 could well be the 3rd best draft pick in Spurs history. Parsed out the win shares of each player in the chain during their Spurs tenure, and that number came out higher than Tony Or Manus career WSs. Only Tim and David had higher WS numbers during the championship era.

[XDT76]

Trying to modify the Kawhi trade to include all the things obtained years later after DD was traded it silly. Might as well go back and say the George Hill was the greatest trade of all time :lol

Not saying it didn't even out over the years but the fact remains Spurs trade was Leonard and Green for DD/Jak/29. Adding Young and picks, etc made in subsequent moves is just face saving tbh

In that case people should also stop saying Rap got the championship bcos of the trade, they later got M.Gasol who is top 3 in every categories in the playoff. It's not as if the Rap did nothing else after the Kawhi trade.

[TD 21]

In that case people should also stop saying Rap got the championship bcos of the trade, they later got M.Gasol who is top 3 in every categories in the playoff. It's not as if the Rap did nothing else after the Kawhi trade.

:lmao

[MarCowMar]

Trying to modify the Kawhi trade to include all the things obtained years later after DD was traded it silly. Might as well go back and say the George Hill was the greatest trade of all time :lol

Not saying it didn't even out over the years but the fact remains Spurs trade was Leonard and Green for DD/Jak/29. Adding Young and picks, etc made in subsequent moves is just face saving tbh

There's nothing silly at all about it--unless you qualify all of sports as silliness. A point I certainly don't dispute much.

It's simple analysis of a closed economic system where the inputs are draft picks and free signings.

The management of the George Hill pick is the highest value extraction of an NBA asset that I'm aware of and it's not yet reached its terminus. Of course each followup transaction can be evaluated individually, but the dependent origin of those transactions was George Hill from "ooey pooey" @ 26 back in 2008.

[Dex]

Gonna put this here...

Clippers’ Kawhi Leonard Out Indefinitely Amid ACL Recovery
(https://www.si.com/nba/2022/11/07/clippers-kawhi-leonard-out-indefinitely-amid-acl-recovery)

:cry BUT THE SPURS DOCTORS WERE WRONG :cry

[Mugen]

What a con job by Kawhi and Dennis tbh :lol

I only wish the Spurs sent his ass to LAC earlier for SGA

[Mugen]

Gonna put this here...

Clippers’ Kawhi Leonard Out Indefinitely Amid ACL Recovery
(https://www.si.com/nba/2022/11/07/clippers-kawhi-leonard-out-indefinitely-amid-acl-recovery)

:cry BUT THE SPURS DOCTORS WERE WRONG :cry

It's fine to doubt the first 1 or 2 doctors. But when the next 8 tell you the same thing, you should probably listen. Still got PAID tho :lol

[Atl Spur]

Gonna put this here...

Clippers’ Kawhi Leonard Out Indefinitely Amid ACL Recovery
(https://www.si.com/nba/2022/11/07/clippers-kawhi-leonard-out-indefinitely-amid-acl-recovery)

:cry BUT THE SPURS DOCTORS WERE WRONG :cry

Nice!

[K...]

I Can't wipe my own ass is back with 6pts and

“Just rehabbing, getting ready," Leonard said of what he was going through since experiencing stiffness in his surgically repaired right knee on Oct. 25. "I'm not going to explain it because I'm not a doctor, and nobody in here is one. So just getting back, ready to get on the floor„

Same old, same ol kawhi shitbag

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/35047360/clippers-star-kawhi-leonard-return-start-vs-pistons

“"After I played those first two games, it was dead already," Leonard said of his preference to start „

[exstatic]

It wouldn’t shock me if he were out of the league after this contract. He’ll be 34ish, and this is the second team he’s pulled this shit on. He’s owed a ton of money over next 3 seasons, and probably won’t earn a fraction of it.

[spurs1990]

I know I'm piling on but Derozan just lost to the Magic at home. Banchero didn't play for Orl. He has Vucevic, Caruson, Lavine, Patrick Williams, Dragic, Drummond... a solid cast. 41 pts and all.
To all the fans who said he didn't have enough help here

[exstatic]

I know I'm piling on but Derozan just lost to the Magic at home. Banchero didn't play for Orl. He has Vucevic, Caruson, Lavine, Patrick Williams, Dragic, Drummond... a solid cast. 41 pts and all.
To all the fans who said he didn't have enough help here

Chicago is 6-10. There’s no way that should be with that roster, so they may just be tanking. They owe this pick to Orlando unless it falls 1-4, so they could be tanking to save the pick and get a shot at Scoot or Wemby.

[spurs1990]

Chicago is 6-10. There’s no way that should be with that roster, so they may just be tanking. They owe this pick to Orlando unless it falls 1-4, so they could be tanking to save the pick and get a shot at Scoot or Wemby.

If that s is true that's tanking on a whole new plane.
San Antonio jettisons their starters in advance of a rebuild, while Chicago and Charlotte have a slew of high level players AND All-Stars and can't do any better than 6-10 and 4-13??

They're gaming the system and muddying up who deserves a chance at the corner stone prospects. Stern needs to get off his PR can and address this.

Spurs are left to 'work' their way in the grouping with the wretched Pistons and Rockets.

https://i.ibb.co/C8XdzP5/nba-11-19-2022.png

[exstatic]

If that s is true that's tanking on a whole new plane.
San Antonio jettisons their starters in advance of a rebuild, while Chicago and Charlotte have a slew of high level players AND All-Stars and can't do any better than 6-10 and 4-13??

They're gaming the system and muddying up who deserves a chance at the corner stone prospects. Stern needs to get off his PR can and address this.

Spurs are left to 'work' their way in the grouping with the wretched Pistons and Rockets.

https://i.ibb.co/C8XdzP5/nba-11-19-2022.png

David Stern is dead, and can no longer affect NBA policy.

Chicago is ridiculous, but Charlotte was only a play in team last year, and lost starters Trezz Harrell and Bridges. Ball has missed a lot of time, too.