Red Planet of Derrick White

[phxspurfan]

https://i.pinimg.com/236x/01/2f/e5/012fe5a95a880f794a2e9fbf4cab2985--retro-funny-so-funny.jpg

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/MgWpztRAK3DD9V5P2a6dattmH_E=/348x0:2381x1684/1200x800/filters:focal(1311x380:1691x760)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/55306891/usa_today_9928765.0.jpg

[Avant]

ERB ....John Carter on Mars....11 book saga, a must read,

[hater]

ERB ....John Carter on Mars....11 book saga, a must read,

the movie ruined it for me tbqh

[slick'81]

Mega mind in the house!

[r0drig0lac]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqeALmiPgrI

[Blackhaus]

A big head that can actually play

[TDomination]

Dude is legit. Hes quickly becoming my favorite player!

[offset formation]

I've been pimping him since he was drafted as a future stud for us. And he gives me hope we can have a quick ascendancy back to the top of the standings next year, especially if Pop and staff can figure out a way to incorporate both he and Murray onto the the floor at the same time.

Assuming he can stay healthy...

[Chomag]

MVP on the Spurs for for sure. He changes on how well the spurs play defence and offence just by playing.

[TDomination]

I've seen him leading the players as well already. telling LMA where to go, getting the guys into position. Thats fantastic!

If LMA and DDR can get it into their heads and they are not ever going to win a championship by trying to be the #1 option on a team, and that they just need to do whats best for the team, then maybe this team can have a chance of winning going forward.

White seems to have good chemistry with Aldridge already. I like that. DDR and White clash a little just cause they are both ball handlers and not super great shooters. But i know they can work together and find a way to become great together. Players just HAVE to put their EGO to the side. But thats a monumental task.

But if they ever could, this team could become special next year. Especially with Murray coming back and maybe Walker getting some action. And we'll see what our draft picks get us.

[exstatic]

I've seen him leading the players as well already. telling LMA where to go, getting the guys into position. Thats fantastic!

If LMA and DDR can get it into their heads and they are not ever going to win a championship by trying to be the #1 option on a team, and that they just need to do whats best for the team, then maybe this team can have a chance of winning going forward.

White seems to have good chemistry with Aldridge already. I like that. DDR and White clash a little just cause they are both ball handlers and not super great shooters. But i know they can work together and find a way to become great together. Players just HAVE to put their EGO to the side. But thats a monumental task.

But if they ever could, this team could become special next year. Especially with Murray coming back and maybe Walker getting some action. And we'll see what our draft picks get us.

One thing I've noticed is that White is a MUCH better 3 point shooter as a catch and shoot option. When he goes off the bounce, it rarely goes in. That's something he can work on this summer. Even with that glitch, he's still shooting 34.5% from downtown. Not elite, but far and above what DD shoots. I even think his midrange game is better. He seems to be able to find the open areas better than DD, who dribbles into traffic too often without being at the rim.

[ceperez]

One thing I've noticed is that White is a MUCH better 3 point shooter as a catch and shoot option. When he goes off the bounce, it rarely goes in. That's something he can work on this summer. Even with that glitch, he's still shooting 34.5% from downtown. Not elite, but far and above what DD shoots. I even think his midrange game is better. He seems to be able to find the open areas better than DD, who dribbles into traffic too often without being at the rim.

I disagree here. He can shoot the 3 from the dribble. Did you even watch the Summer league games?

[exstatic]

I disagree here. He can shoot the 3 from the dribble. Did you even watch the Summer league games?

Did I really have to write 'in real NBA game action'? Who cares about SL? That's like bragging on g-league action. Kyle Anderson was a veritable god in both of those venues, and couldn't do shit in real action. I've watched probably 90% of the Spurs games so far, and haven't seen him shoot well beyond the arc off the bounce. Do I think he can figure it out? I think it's likely, but right now, he's not there yet.

[LakerHater]

https://images2.imgbox.com/0d/c4/MXqIm37G_o.gif

[SpursDynasty85]

Even after good performances like this, White is not a pure point gaurd. He can be just as effective at SG. He can play off screens and attack the baskt from the wing positions too. I see Dejounte being our pg and ball handler and White coming off screens to make plays.

[John B]

I see him attacking the basket more, and taking more control towards the end of the game. With the advent of Harden, Doncic, big guards who can finish, I like to see him fathom some of their moves, euro-step, step-back. He needs to bulk-up some more to take contact, and working more on his 3's. This kid could be a triple-double sooner than anyone in the team.

[Dverde]

Spurs reddit with the goods :rollin

https://i.imgur.com/HVVlvwt_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

[TDomination]

Spurs reddit with the goods :rollin

https://i.imgur.com/HVVlvwt_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

haha i saw that.

whos yo daddy!
d white is yo daddy!

[exstatic]

Even after good performances like this, White is not a pure point gaurd. He can be just as effective at SG. He can play off screens and attack the baskt from the wing positions too. I see Dejounte being our pg and ball handler and White coming off screens to make plays.

He has better vision and passing ability than DJ. Some of the passes that he threads within 5-6 feet of the rim just astound me.

Besides, in the Spurs offense, the idea of a pure point guard is moot. Positionless basketball.

[BackHome]

Agree White has it all good court vision, good handles, speed, willingness to set up team mates for easy buckets etc. yeah he is a PG.

[ZeusWillJudge]

:pop: "It's the fourth quarter. I need to go to The Head."

[SpursDynasty85]

He has better vision and passing ability than DJ. Some of the passes that he threads within 5-6 feet of the rim just astound me.

Besides, in the Spurs offense, the idea of a pure point guard is moot. Positionless basketball.

No doubt White currently is the better playmaker and more seasoned. I like the idea of putting White in a position to score more and then kick out as a result of that. Currently he struggles to get the kind of penetration needed in the Spurs system as a pg. Murray I can see doing a better job of that once he grows into that role more.

Next year's SL. imo, should be Murray, White, DDR, Bertans, Aldridge. Bench unit is muddled with undersized gaurds which hopefully PATFO will address. Gay and Poeltl at the frontcourt and hopefully a SF from the draft or LW if he is ready.

[Rusty]

Trade DeBrick Depression for Kyle Kuzma or Ingram

[FkLA]

Just give him the max already, tbh.

[look_at_g_shred]

Even after good performances like this, White is not a pure point gaurd. He can be just as effective at SG. He can play off screens and attack the baskt from the wing positions too. I see Dejounte being our pg and ball handler and White coming off screens to make plays. Found SpurPadre’s alt

[blizz]

Should have been an and 1

[ceperez]

https://www.poundingtherock.com/2019/3/7/18255572/derek-white-san-antonio-spurs-anatomy-shot-blocker

[Coach X]

The more he plays with DeRozan the more comfortable are both. In White, DeRozan has a shooter and a cutter to find when he's doubled, but also a defensive stopper who helps the team to play more fastbreak and transition, where Demarr shines. In DeRozan, White has a #1 offensive reference that takes pressure from his shoulders playmaking and generating game and also provides him open shots, easy scoring opportunities. Both can start a play for Aldridge or play P&R with him whilst the other remains being dangerous for defense as both can solve a possession on a desperate 1on1 action.

Behold and salute our new centurion!
https://mcishop.azureedge.net/mciassets/w_3_0034323_roman-centurion-helmet_550.png

[Ocotillo]

Meh, I remember when half the board was calling him little fathead.

[GusT15]

Meh, I remember when half the board was calling him little fathead.

*Mini-Fathead

[BillMc]

Just give him the max already, tbh.

Gotta save room for Patty's next contract

[Mr. Body]

This guy is so fucking good. The team is totally different when he plays and he's a closer.

[MoSpur02]

This guy is so fucking good. The team is totally different when he plays and he's a closer.


+1

[sasaint]

Gotta save room for Patty's next contract

some things should not even be said in jest.

[r0drig0lac]

now that he has sodomized the "future star" in a national game, the league will be paying attention to the kid

[8sy21vd]

Somebody please find out if he has a uncle so I can prepare for disappointment :smchode:

[R. DeMurre]

White has badly outplayed both Doncic and Trae Young in the same week.

[DAF86]

If this guy doesn't make an all-defensive team then it's settled: this distinction is nothing more than a recogntion to those who have a better PR game.

[Mr. Body]

If this guy doesn't make an all-defensive team then it's settled: this distinction is nothing more than a recogntion to those who have a better PR game.

*coughcough*Dejounte Murray*coughcough*

[MoSpur02]

Somebody please find out if he has a uncle so I can prepare for disappointment :smchode:

:lmao One of the best posts in awhile

[Rusty]

Imagine if Kawhi was still on the team.

Best 2 way shooting guard and best 2 way small forward :cry

[TDMVPDPOY]

look for the murray faggots to come in here for their 2cents chime...

[GusT15]

Imagine if Kawhi was still on the team.

Best 2 way shooting guard and best 2 way small forward :cry

If you've seen Nephew play this year,PG13 has surpassed him as the best 2way SF and it's not even close.

White is awesome tho! :tu

[silverblackfan]

I find myself asking the Pop to let White control the ball in the last 4 minutes. He seems to handle pressure well and makes the right decision. Very much a classic Spur in that he thinks then plays.

[DAF86]

Imagine if Kawhi was still on the team.

Best 2 way shooting guard and best 2 way small forward :cry

White, Green, Kawhi, Gay/Bertans, Aldridge :depressed

[DAF86]

∆∆∆ Easily the biggest threat to the GSW. :depressed

[BackHome]

Glad Poop finally sees White needs the ball in his hands when the game is on the line.

[Rusty]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQu2k_thAH0

:tu

[Rusty]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TELhExkKqNA

[ceperez]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQu2k_thAH0

:tu

I watched the game and watched this highlights. It's just amazing what he does on the court!

This guy owns the team.

Compared to Aldridge and DeRoza who become myopic on offense. Spurs have better build the team around White.

[ceperez]

https://www.poundingtherock.com/2019/3/13/18262244/derrick-white-san-antonio-spurs-basketball-iq

[spurs50_]

and I was pissed when we passed up on Jordan Bell and drafted this Derrick White guy...............damn, was I wrong

[exstatic]

If this guy doesn't make an all-defensive team then it's settled: this distinction is nothing more than a recogntion to those who have a better PR game.

IIRC, All D teams are selected by the coaches, not the media.

[ZeusWillJudge]

IIRC, All D teams are selected by the coaches, not the media.

I tried to explain that a week or so ago. There's no future in it.

The coaches don't give a damn about PR/media when they're picking All-Defensive. They know better than anybody who gives their guys trouble in games.

[BillMc]

some things should not even be said in jest.

:lol

[DAF86]

IIRC, All D teams are selected by the coaches, not the media.


I tried to explain that a week or so ago. There's no future in it.

The coaches don't give a damn about PR/media when they're picking All-Defensive. They know better than anybody who gives their guys trouble in games.

lol sure. That's why Kobe made like 15 all-defensive teams, right? :lol

Coaches are worst than journalists at picking these accolades. Journalists at least check facts and look at stats and advanced metrics. Coaches just pick recognisable names. If you have a good PR game, you make your name recognisable.

[exstatic]

Z
lol sure. That's why Kobe made like 15 all-defensive teams, right? :lol

Coaches are worst than journalists at picking these accolades. Journalists at least check facts and look at stats and advanced metrics. Coaches just pick recognisable names. If you have a good PR game, you make your name recognisable.
I think in the past, your position had some merit, but they seem to be doing a better, more serious job of picking the All D teams in recent years. LeBron hasn’t made one since 2013-2014. I thinkin the past, like theASG and All NBA, there was a tendency to maybe award someone for a couple of years past their sell by date, but that seems to have been ironed out in this case.

[SpursDynasty85]

I tried to explain that a week or so ago. There's no future in it.

The coaches don't give a damn about PR/media when they're picking All-Defensive. They know better than anybody who gives their guys trouble in games.

Im still a bit confused about the Dejounte Murray pick last year. He looked green on both sides. More so offense but still got plenty bullied on the defensive end. Getting rebounds is very important but I've always seen this thing as a on ball defensive recognition (especially for gaurds).

[Drom John]

Real Plus Minus Defensive RPM
Point guards

2017-2018
3.60 Dejounte Murray
2.40 Tyus Jones
2.31 Lonzo Ball
2.10 Jrue Holiday
1.98 Ricky Rubio

2018-2019
1.87 Marcus Smart
1.49 Derrick White
1.38 Patrick Beverley
1.37 Chris Paul
1.36 Cory Joseph

[FkLA]

Real Plus Minus Defensive RPM
Point guards

2017-2018
3.60 Dejounte Murray
2.40 Tyus Jones
2.31 Lonzo Ball
2.10 Jrue Holiday
1.98 Ricky Rubio

2018-2019
1.87 Marcus Smart
1.49 Derrick White
1.38 Patrick Beverley
1.37 Chris Paul
1.36 Cory Joseph

Puts some perspective on Murray's DRPM last season vs White's this season. DJ homers love to use it as evidence for why Murray is the better defender but the reality is that today's NBA is simply much different than even last year's. I am absolutely going to lose my shit if White doesn't make all-defense.

[DAF86]

Puts some perspective on Murray's DRPM last season vs White's this season. DJ homers love to use it as evidence for why Murray is the better defender but the reality is that today's NBA is simply much different than even last year's. I am absolutely going to lose my shit if White doesn't make all-defense.

Everybody's numbers being higher in 2017/18 gives it away.

But anyway, that 2018/19 list proves that White deserves it. He's the second rated guard.

[ZeusWillJudge]

Puts some perspective on Murray's DRPM last season vs White's this season. DJ homers love to use it as evidence for why Murray is the better defender but the reality is that today's NBA is simply much different than even last year's. I am absolutely going to lose my shit if White doesn't make all-defense.


Holy shit (and I'm an expert on holy shit). That's dead on, top to bottom.

What it does show is that Murray was an outstanding defender among guards last year, and White is this year. They both put up impressive numbers of steals and blocks. White is a good rebounding guard, and Murray is a great rebounding guard. I don't know why people feel the need to compare them to each other. I'm glad the Spurs have both.

Pretty damned amazing for a pair of 29th draft picks.

[**BUSTA**]

Everybody's numbers being higher in 2017/18 gives it away.

But anyway, that 2018/19 list proves that White deserves it. He's the second rated guard.

5th rated guard. 2nd rated point guard.

[r0drig0lac]

Holy shit (and I'm an expert on holy shit). That's dead on, top to bottom.

What it does show is that Murray was an outstanding defender among guards last year, and White is this year. They both put up impressive numbers of steals and blocks. White is a good rebounding guard, and Murray is a great rebounding guard. I don't know why people feel the need to compare them to each other. I'm glad the Spurs have both.

Pretty damned amazing for a pair of 29th draft picks.

this

[ceperez]

Pop says White should demand a new deal!

https://news4sanantonio.com/sports/spurs-zone/popovich-jokes-derrick-white-should-refuse-to-play-until-new-deal-is-drawn-up

[FkLA]

Pop says White should demand a new deal!

https://news4sanantonio.com/sports/spurs-zone/popovich-jokes-derrick-white-should-refuse-to-play-until-new-deal-is-drawn-up

Lloyd Pierce is the second coach I've seen (could be more I just don't pay that much attention) publicly compliment his defense. Brad Stevens did the same when the Celtics played at SA and he gave Irving fits. Gives me hope that maybe White will get his due and be named to an all-defense team.

[D-Robinson 50 fan]

The guy is a better defender than Murray and the crazy part is he barely gets in the prototypical defensive stance.

[ceperez]

The guy is a better defender than Murray and the crazy part is he barely gets in the prototypical defensive stance.

He's got cat quick reaction and anticipation time, also his reach is longer than what's advertised (listed at 6'8" wingspan). Danny Green has a 6'10" wingspan and Murray is listed also at 6'10".

I think it's his IQ that gets him to a spot before the offense gets there.

That and the fact that everyone thinks he's unathletic, but https://www.ralphiereport.com/buffaloes-basketball/2017/5/18/15648530/derrick-white-impresses-2017-nba-draft-combine-colorado-buffaloes-basketball shows that he's got a 35" vertical.

[D-Robinson 50 fan]

It's so sad that Kawhi and the Spurs couldn't mend fences. This team would've been so nice with him and Green still here

[DAF86]

It's so sad that Kawhi and the Spurs couldn't mend fences. This team would've been so nice with him and Green still here

Serious championship contender, tbh.

[exstatic]

It's so sad that Kawhi and the Spurs couldn't mend fences. This team would've been so nice with him and Green still here

Green wore out his welcome. His play slipped pretty noticeably the last few years. He was pretty average. Sometimes, both parties are best served by a change. Green got a fresh start, and the Spurs get to bring along some new young guards.

[DAF86]

He's got cat quick reaction and anticipation time, also his reach is longer than what's advertised (listed at 6'8" wingspan). Danny Green has a 6'10" wingspan and Murray is listed also at 6'10".

I think it's his IQ that gets him to a spot before the offense gets there.

That and the fact that everyone thinks he's unathletic, but https://www.ralphiereport.com/buffaloes-basketball/2017/5/18/15648530/derrick-white-impresses-2017-nba-draft-combine-colorado-buffaloes-basketball shows that he's got a 35" vertical.

That's the key, he reads the plays before they happen. He must be the best pick and roll defender in the league.

[R. DeMurre]

He's got cat quick reaction and anticipation time, also his reach is longer than what's advertised (listed at 6'8" wingspan). Danny Green has a 6'10" wingspan and Murray is listed also at 6'10".

I think it's his IQ that gets him to a spot before the offense gets there.

That and the fact that everyone thinks he's unathletic, but https://www.ralphiereport.com/buffaloes-basketball/2017/5/18/15648530/derrick-white-impresses-2017-nba-draft-combine-colorado-buffaloes-basketball shows that he's got a 35" vertical.


Yeah, I never got the "Unathletic" label some people gave him... All of his draft combine #s were elite.

[SpurPadre]

Green wore out his welcome. His play slipped pretty noticeably the last few years. He was pretty average. Sometimes, both parties are best served by a change. Green got a fresh start, and the Spurs get to bring along some new young guards.

Who wouldn't much rather have White and Green than White and Forbes?

[look_at_g_shred]

Dude was making Luka look pedestrian yesterday. Bum knee be damned.

[itzsoweezee]

This team is going to have even worse spacing next year. A lot is going to be riding on DJM and White being improved shooters. Either that, it they're just going to have to lock down everyone defensively. The problem with the second route is that defense is much less important to success in the NBA nowadays

[SpurPadre]

White and Murray next season will be awesome BUT the fact remains that Murray WILL be the starting PG next season. Pop isn't having Murray travel with the team now if that were not the case. He's stressed multiple times this season that Murray will be very important to the team's plans next season too. And starting both of them isn't going to happen as long as DeMar is here. The best case scenario is that White will play the Manu super sub role. With Mills back to towel waiving and garbage time and Forbes holding the players' bags. Murray was named starter before he went down and I don't think Pop will demote him all of a sudden.

[R. DeMurre]

It's interesting how fast the Spurs could potentially go from a relatively poor defensive team to an elite one next season, and it's not a remote possibility at all:

1. Dejounte returns, healthy.
2. Spurs draft Matisse Thybulle.
3. Spurs sign inexpensive defensive minded back up C like Khem Birch.

[SpurPadre]

It's interesting how fast the Spurs could potentially go from a relatively poor defensive team to an elite one next season, and it's not a remote possibility at all:

1. Dejounte returns, healthy.
2. Spurs draft Matisse Thybulle.
3. Spurs sign inexpensive defensive minded back up C like Khem Birch.

And getting rid of or less minutes of Forbes, Bellinelli, and Mills will automatically improve the D too.

[exstatic]

White and Murray next season will be awesome BUT the fact remains that Murray WILL be the starting PG next season. Pop isn't having Murray travel with the team now if that were not the case. He's stressed multiple times this season that Murray will be very important to the team's plans next season too. And starting both of them isn't going to happen as long as DeMar is here. The best case scenario is that White will play the Manu super sub role. With Mills back to towel waiving and garbage time and Forbes holding the players' bags. Murray was named starter before he went down and I don't think Pop will demote him all of a sudden.

Right now, Demar is starting at the 3, and Forbes at the 2. You want to send White to the bench, and continue to start Forbes?

[south side spur]

Yeah, I never got the "Unathletic" label some people gave him... All of his draft combine #s were elite.

For one, there was a vocal Jordan Bell contingent that was looking for any reason to rationalize their obvious expertise and how PATFO were clueless. Then there’s the other group of trolls who say PATFO are clueless and who justify their hate of all draft picks as a reverse jinx so they’re covered either way.

[south side spur]

Yeah, I never got the "Unathletic" label some people gave him... All of his draft combine #s were elite.

For one, there was a vocal Jordan Bell contingent that was looking for any reason to rationalize their obvious expertise and how PATFO were clueless. Then there’s the other group of trolls who say PATFO are clueless and who justify their hate of all draft picks as a reverse jinx so they’re covered either way.

[SpurPadre]

Right now, Demar is starting at the 3, and Forbes at the 2. You want to send White to the bench, and continue to start Forbes?

DeMar isn't a true wing player. I'd rather we focus on getting that wing player in the offseason while having White as our supersub since there's no way DeMar gets traded in the offseason. Otherwise, I would definitely welcome a Murray and White starting backcourt. I want Forbes to rot in hell.

[rjv]

and I was pissed when we passed up on Jordan Bell and drafted this Derrick White guy...............damn, was I wrong

the rare ST mea culpa. :bobo

[exstatic]

DeMar isn't a true wing player. I'd rather we focus on getting that wing player in the offseason while having White as our supersub since there's no way DeMar gets traded in the offseason. Otherwise, I would definitely welcome a Murray and White starting backcourt. I want Forbes to rot in hell.

I can't see them re-upping Rudy, AND paying the MLE for another wing when they have Rudy, DeMar, and Bertans, all over 6'7", and possessing perimeter skills to cover the front court positions.

[K...]

LMAO people who hate Forbes are idiots. Forbes will start next year but sub out early for Murray. White is too important to setting up LMA to put on the bench. Let my touches get warm and then bring in Murray to run a fastbreak unit. People dreaming for the max defense lineup need to stop knocking what works. Spurs won't abandon the 3 guard lineup just because they pick up an Austin Spurs bound rookie.

[DAF86]

I can't see them re-upping Rudy, AND paying the MLE for another wing when they have Rudy, DeMar, and Bertans, all over 6'7", and possessing perimeter skills to cover the front court positions.

They would be making a huge mistake then.

[DAF86]

LMAO people who hate Forbes are idiots. Forbes will start next year but sub out early for Murray. White is too important to setting up LMA to put on the bench. Let my touches get warm and then bring in Murray to run a fastbreak unit. People dreaming for the max defense lineup need to stop knocking what works. Spurs won't abandon the 3 guard lineup just because they pick up an Austin Spurs bound rookie.

Rotation that makes most sense for next season is:

SL: White, Forbes, DeRozan, Bertans, Aldridge
Bench: Murray, Mills, Belinelli, Gay, Poeltl

[exstatic]

They would be making a huge mistake then.

People say that every year about PATFO, like 21 in a row, IIRC.

[look_at_g_shred]

I heard Sean Elliott say on the broadcast against the bucks that Murray and white will play together. He would know as he’s got the scoop.

[FkLA]

Rotation that makes most sense for next season is:

SL: White, Forbes, DeRozan, Bertans, Aldridge
Bench: Murray, Mills, Belinelli, Gay, Poeltl

Gotta make room for the two wings we draft+the wing we sign with the MLE, imho.

[SpurPadre]

LMAO people who hate Forbes are idiots. Forbes will start next year but sub out early for Murray. White is too important to setting up LMA to put on the bench. Let my touches get warm and then bring in Murray to run a fastbreak unit. People dreaming for the max defense lineup need to stop knocking what works. Spurs won't abandon the 3 guard lineup just because they pick up an Austin Spurs bound rookie.

Forbes: 11.38 PER which is the equivalent of a non-rotational player, -1.71 RPM which is the 4th fourth worst amongst two guards averaging 28 minutes or more and 6th worst amongst PGs averaging 28 minutes or more and has actually gotten a little better the last few days since Pop has realized how much of a turd he is, Overall net rating is -2.5 which is the worst in the team outside of Cunningham, Metu and Walker and is actually a putrid -4.9 since the All Star break. Yeah...people who hate Forbes, especially as a starter, are idiots. :rolleyes

[Kobe'sAchilles]

Rotation that makes most sense for next season is:

SL: White, Forbes, DeRozan, Bertans, Aldridge
Bench: Murray, Mills, Belinelli, Gay, Poeltl
Forbes and Mills will be gone by next year. Forbes will be gone at the start of next year and Mills will be gone by the trading deadline. Draft pick/ Lonnie will be called up by Feb 2020.

[r0drig0lac]

Gotta make room for the two wings we draft+the wing we sign with the MLE, imho.

amen

[Rusty]

put Dejounte "IG Baller" Murray on the bench and start White

[SpurPadre]

People say that every year about PATFO, like 21 in a row, IIRC.

Last time I checked, we didn't have 21 rings. PATFO aren't infallible.

[r0drig0lac]

LMAO people who hate Forbes are idiots. Forbes will start next year but sub out early for Murray. White is too important to setting up LMA to put on the bench. Let my touches get warm and then bring in Murray to run a fastbreak unit. People dreaming for the max defense lineup need to stop knocking what works. Spurs won't abandon the 3 guard lineup just because they pick up an Austin Spurs bound rookie.

Spurs are winning even with Forbes being clearly a negative in the court is proof of how good White is

[Russ]

Forbes and Mills will be gone by next year. Forbes will be gone at the start of next year and Mills will be gone by the trading deadline. Draft pick/ Lonnie will be called up by Feb 2020.

I think Pop looks at Forbes as a long-term designated shooter even if he doesn't remain a starter.

Since Forbes is the successor to Mills, Mills should probably be traded.

[ZeusWillJudge]

In "today's NBA", a prototypical SF is the holy grail. The Spurs can't afford one of those next year. I like Rudy Gay, but I don't think he's going to be able to stand up to 2,000 minutes in a season anymore, which is sort of the cutoff for starter's minutes. So they're going to have to fill in those minutes another way. I thin the Spurs should do their best to get Darius Miller under the MLE and draft a wing with upside to develop in Austin. Let Murray play the 3 when they're going small.

But I think we've all see how important White's ball handling and playmaking are. The Spurs lead the league in fewest turnovers, and he's a big part of that. I don't see how you can have a SL without him in it now. White, DDR, and Aldridge will be starting, and Pop will experiment with the other two spots.

[ZeusWillJudge]

I think Pop looks at Forbes as a long-term designated shooter even if he doesn't remain a starter.

Since Forbes is the successor to Mills, Mills should probably be traded.


I'll buy that. I sort of thought they would keep Mills rather than salary dump a player - and they won't get much in the way of value out of him. But I've been saying that Forbes is a disaster when he's in the starting lineup with DDR because the defense is just too porous. But as a designated shooter with the second unit? Yeah, that's tolerable.

[Kobe'sAchilles]

I think Pop looks at Forbes as a long-term designated shooter even if he doesn't remain a starter.

Since Forbes is the successor to Mills, Mills should probably be traded.

I think Pop and RC are on different pages tbh. Pop loves the players and their personalities/work ethic while RC knows that you can't win with midget ball. He has drafted 3 guards in a row and signed 2 guards in the offseason (DDR & Beli)

The 29th pick will be very telling on whether Pop and RC are on the same page with Mills/Forbes. If they draft a center than one of them is staying. If it's any other position then both are gone

[BD24]

This guy is so fucking good. The team is totally different when he plays and he's a closer.
Word.

was happy to see Derozan deferring to him late. Man, a backcourt of him and DJ next year should be dope. Really wish we could unload ddr for a wing that has a legit 3pt shot.

[GAustex]

Word.

was happy to see Derozan deferring to him late. Man, a backcourt of him and DJ next year should be dope. Really wish we could unload ddr for a wing that has a legit 3pt shot.
Somehow trade DDR and Mills and get 2 6’ 7” deadeyes and you’re good to go

[DAF86]

People say that every year about PATFO, like 21 in a row, IIRC.

Yeah well, and they have had their fair share of mistakes throughout the years. Why are you acting like they haven't?

[BD24]

Somehow trade DDR and Mills and get 2 6’ 7” deadeyes and you’re good to go
DDR has been great lately, but isn’t a great fit with a backcourt of White and DJ though. Hopefully we draft a couple wings this summer tbh

[DAF86]

Gotta make room for the two wings we draft+the wing we sign with the MLE, imho.


Forbes and Mills will be gone by next year. Forbes will be gone at the start of next year and Mills will be gone by the trading deadline. Draft pick/ Lonnie will be called up by Feb 2020.

Hope so, but I doubt it.

[Mr. Body]

I think Pop looks at Forbes as a long-term designated shooter even if he doesn't remain a starter.

Since Forbes is the successor to Mills, Mills should probably be traded.

Mills won't be traded. I don't think people understand his role in creating the right team environment, especially with Timmy, Parker, and Ginobili all gone.

[BackHome]

For me it’s just getting better as we draft so that means with late picks making our bench better I think a guy like Tyler Herro/PJ Washington/Thybulle is better then Mills, Forbes, Cunningham, Poindexter. Also would not mind Goga, Bassey, or Fernando if we decide not to bring over Nikola .

[sasaint]

Mills won't be traded. I don't think people understand his role in creating the right team environment, especially with Timmy, Parker, and Ginobili all gone.

Been saying this for literally 2 years. Pop groomed him to be the de facto team leader in the post-Tim/Tony/Manu era - until a true successor steps up.

[SpurPadre]

In "today's NBA", a prototypical SF is the holy grail. The Spurs can't afford one of those next year. I like Rudy Gay, but I don't think he's going to be able to stand up to 2,000 minutes in a season anymore, which is sort of the cutoff for starter's minutes. So they're going to have to fill in those minutes another way. I thin the Spurs should do their best to get Darius Miller under the MLE and draft a wing with upside to develop in Austin. Let Murray play the 3 when they're going small.

But I think we've all see how important White's ball handling and playmaking are. The Spurs lead the league in fewest turnovers, and he's a big part of that. I don't see how you can have a SL without him in it now. White, DDR, and Aldridge will be starting, and Pop will experiment with the other two spots.

Is Pop really the type to demote a player simply because of injury missing one season? He didn't choose to name Murray as the starting PG on a whim.

[SpurPadre]

I think Pop and RC are on different pages tbh. Pop loves the players and their personalities/work ethic while RC knows that you can't win with midget ball. He has drafted 3 guards in a row and signed 2 guards in the offseason (DDR & Beli)

The 29th pick will be very telling on whether Pop and RC are on the same page with Mills/Forbes. If they draft a center than one of them is staying. If it's any other position then both are gone

Draft order isn't etched in stone yet.

[exstatic]

I think Pop and RC are on different pages tbh. Pop loves the players and their personalities/work ethic while RC knows that you can't win with midget ball. He has drafted 3 guards in a row and signed 2 guards in the offseason (DDR & Beli)

The 29th pick will be very telling on whether Pop and RC are on the same page with Mills/Forbes. If they draft a center than one of them is staying. If it's any other position then both are gone

That might be the most dense take of the week. Saying that the position they draft will determine if they are on the same page or one or the other is leaving is bizarre.

The Spurs don't draft for need. They will draft the best player available, regardless of position, and the position of that player has no meaning at all in the state of the front office.

[ceperez]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=112&v=4ypAG1M1TT8

[Kobe'sAchilles]

That might be the most dense take of the week. Saying that the position they draft will determine if they are on the same page or one or the other is leaving is bizarre.

The Spurs don't draft for need. They will draft the best player available, regardless of position, and the position of that player has no meaning at all in the state of the front office.

My take may be "dense" like you say but yours is just wrong. Was Cojo the BPA? Milutinov? LJC? Nope none of those were the best player available. 2 of them were drafted for need (I have no idea why we picked LJC). Kawhi was also drafted for a need (we know this bc Pop said so a million times.

Hey look, Tony Parker is gettin older and slower so we draft DJ. Gino is 40 and we probably need another combo guard to take his spot and what do you know, they draft White. Lonnie was BPA but he also filled a team need (like the 2 picks before him did).

3 years in a row RC has drafted guards AND he picked up 2 more guards this offseason. Pop and RC may be stuck between 2 players in the 27-29th pick in this year's draft (since it's pretty much a crapshoot) and RC wants a guard while Pop wants a big man. It's up to RC to bring pop over to his page (like he did with Kawhi). If we draft a guard this year (BPA or not) it signals that RC doesn't have the same faith in Mills and Forbes as Pop does. 8 guards on one team is kinda a lot

[R. DeMurre]

Last time I checked, we didn't have 21 rings. PATFO aren't infallible.


That's a pretty unreasonable standard to hold a franchise to. They do have, by far, in a small market many stars wouldn't consider, the longest running playoff streak in the NBA, and 5 rings in 20 years. So, against 29 other franchises-- many with more money to spend-- the Spurs have won 25% of the championships over two decades.

[ZeusWillJudge]

Is Pop really the type to demote a player simply because of injury missing one season? He didn't choose to name Murray as the starting PG on a whim.


Ummm… Parker missed the first 20 games of the season, and was only up to playing about 20 MPG when he came back. Pop started Murray at the start of the season, but then gave Mills a shot - and he sucked. And, yeah, that's pretty much exactly how Parker got demoted, if you want to look at it that way. Murray was the best option, and he won the job. Pop also started both Murray and Mills for the last month of the season, and through the playoffs.

I think White has developed into the better PG. The numbers say he dishes out more AST and commits fewer TOV, by a big enough margin to pay attention to. I don't think that there is any question that when the other team is dialing up their defensive intensity, White's sure-handedness is a big asset. Notice that when White is bringing the ball up the court, the other teams rarely bother to pressure him. Mills and DDR they beat the living shit out of. That's because they know White doesn't cough the ball up, and those guys will. Murray has always had that very upright stance when dribbling, and he's more vulnerable to getting stripped because of it. None of that is subjective - I know you've seen it for yourself.

I don't think Murray did bad at the point - I just think White is better. And lately White has showed signs of becoming something of a floor general, and not just a ball handler. If that continues, I don't see how you can keep him off the floor.

I think a lot of people here still don't think of White as being very athletic. At his combine, he had the second best three-quarter sprint time, and was (I think) third in vertical leap. He's a lot quicker and more athletic than most give him credit for. And the thing I'm really loving about him as PG is his ability to change pace. He's learned how to slow down and put a defender to sleep, and then put on a burst to get around him.

I said it before - I'm glad the Spurs have both of them. But they sort of have a logjam of young 6'5" players, don't they?

[r0drig0lac]

That's a pretty unreasonable standard to hold a franchise to. They do have, by far, in a small market many stars wouldn't consider, the longest running playoff streak in the NBA, and 5 rings in 20 years. So, against 29 other franchises-- many with more money to spend-- the Spurs have won 25% of the championships over two decades.

yep, Tim Duncan

[ZeusWillJudge]

yep, Tim Duncan

The elephant on the court.


The original argument was about the Spurs FO making mistakes. Jackie Butler, Richard Jefferson, Stephen Jackson II, Pau Gasol, and Patty Mills all say "Hi". Carry on.

[R. DeMurre]

yep, Tim Duncan

Tim Duncan is, of course, great but he didn't trade a back up point guard named George Hill for the #15 pick who would later become an MVP candidate, plus a Latvian sharpshooter, and he didn't scout and draft Derrick White. Give credit where credit is due.

[R. DeMurre]

The elephant on the court.


The original argument was about the Spurs FO making mistakes. Jackie Butler, Richard Jefferson, Stephen Jackson II, Pau Gasol, and Patty Mills all say "Hi". Carry on.


Jackie Butler? Wow, you sure can hold a grudge! The guy signed as a cheap free agent, and didn't pan out. The next year, the Spurs won an NBA title.

[spurraider21]

never thought he'd be this kind of all around player

patfo doing work

[r0drig0lac]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=112&v=4ypAG1M1TT8


defensive awareness payton like

[superbigtime]

Mills won't be traded. I don't think people understand his role in creating the right team environment, especially with Timmy, Parker, and Ginobili all gone.

I do. He ain't goin nowhere.

[sasaint]

Ummm… Parker missed the first 20 games of the season, and was only up to playing about 20 MPG when he came back. Pop started Murray at the start of the season, but then gave Mills a shot - and he sucked. And, yeah, that's pretty much exactly how Parker got demoted, if you want to look at it that way. Murray was the best option, and he won the job. Pop also started both Murray and Mills for the last month of the season, and through the playoffs.

I think White has developed into the better PG. The numbers say he dishes out more AST and commits fewer TOV, by a big enough margin to pay attention to. I don't think that there is any question that when the other team is dialing up their defensive intensity, White's sure-handedness is a big asset. Notice that when White is bringing the ball up the court, the other teams rarely bother to pressure him. Mills and DDR they beat the living shit out of. That's because they know White doesn't cough the ball up, and those guys will. Murray has always had that very upright stance when dribbling, and he's more vulnerable to getting stripped because of it. None of that is subjective - I know you've seen it for yourself.

I don't think Murray did bad at the point - I just think White is better. And lately White has showed signs of becoming something of a floor general, and not just a ball handler. If that continues, I don't see how you can keep him off the floor.

I think a lot of people here still don't think of White as being very athletic. At his combine, he had the second best three-quarter sprint time, and was (I think) third in vertical leap. He's a lot quicker and more athletic than most give him credit for. And the thing I'm really loving about him as PG is his ability to change pace. He's learned how to slow down and put a defender to sleep, and then put on a burst to get around him.

I said it before - I'm glad the Spurs have both of them. But they sort of have a logjam of young 6'5" players, don't they?

Glad you have come around. White is a PG, with the makings of an excellent one. In addition to your excellent observations, another point about him is White makes guys around him better - including LMA. I didn’t see that from Murray. Not to be misunderstood - I am a fan of Murray. But it is he who needs to concentrate on improving his shooting to become our SG.

[R. DeMurre]

never thought he'd be this kind of all around player

patfo doing work


One of the reasons I feel so optimistic about this summer's draft: if the Spurs have two shots in the first round, I'm betting at least one is a winner.

[ceperez]

Glad you have come around. White is a PG, with the makings of an excellent one. In addition to your excellent observations, another point about him is White makes guys around him better - including LMA. I didn’t see that from Murray. Not to be misunderstood - I am a fan of Murray. But it is he who needs to concentrate on improving his shooting to become our SG.

Murray had a very hard time setting up the offense. He's got as much court vision as DeRozan. In short, virtually none.

I think we forget that Murray had guys like Parker and Manu to back him up.

[ZeusWillJudge]

Jackie Butler? Wow, you sure can hold a grudge! The guy signed as a cheap free agent, and didn't pan out. The next year, the Spurs won an NBA title.

I don't know who you think you are, but you aren't who you think you are. Jackie Butler got his contract and quit basketball - he just stayed around to cash checks. The contract wasn't "cheap" by the standards of that time. It was a three year deal, and he played in exactly 11 games for the rest of his career. The Spurs had to give up rights to Louis Scola to salary dump his lazy fat ass.

It was quite possibly the worst deal in PATFO history. The fact that you don't know that says a lot. The fact that you would try to lecture someone who does know, just because you went to Basketball Reference and looked up his salary means:

You have been judged and found unworthy.

[ZeusWillJudge]

Is Pop really the type to demote a player simply because of injury missing one season? He didn't choose to name Murray as the starting PG on a whim.


Glad you have come around. White is a PG, with the makings of an excellent one. In addition to your excellent observations, another point about him is White makes guys around him better - including LMA. I didn’t see that from Murray. Not to be misunderstood - I am a fan of Murray. But it is he who needs to concentrate on improving his shooting to become our SG.


I've come around? LOL. You didn't just move the goal post, you switched ends on the damn field. :blah

I liked White when they drafted him. But I'll admit that I have come around on him as a PG from the beginning of the season. But he's not even the same player he was at the beginning of the season. It has been a fun transformation to watch.

[R. DeMurre]

I don't know who you think you are, but you aren't who you think you are. Jackie Butler got his contract and quit basketball - he just stayed around to cash checks. The contract wasn't "cheap" by the standards of that time. It was a three year deal, and he played in exactly 11 games for the rest of his career. The Spurs had to give up rights to Louis Scola to salary dump his lazy fat ass.

It was quite possibly the worst deal in PATFO history. The fact that you don't know that says a lot. The fact that you would try to lecture someone who does know, just because you went to Basketball Reference and looked up his salary means:

You have been judged and found unworthy.

Your whole mythology schtick is cute.

[Mr. Body]

Murray had a very hard time setting up the offense. He's got as much court vision as DeRozan. In short, virtually none.

I think we forget that Murray had guys like Parker and Manu to back him up.

DeRozan has way more court vision than Murray.

[ZeusWillJudge]

Your whole mythology schtick is cute.

So which part is mythology?

Butler didn't sign a 3 year deal, and then only play 11 games for the rest of his career?
Did the Spurs really WANT to get rid of Scola's rights?
Did the Spurs really WANT to sign Spanoulis, knowing that he had left the NBA to go back to Europe?

Surely you don't doubt that from up here on Olympus, you're an insignificant little snail-darter?

[R. DeMurre]

So which part is mythology?

Butler didn't sign a 3 year deal, and then only play 11 games for the rest of his career?
Did the Spurs really WANT to get rid of Scola's rights?
Did the Spurs really WANT to sign Spanoulis, knowing that he had left the NBA to go back to Europe?

Surely you don't doubt that from up here on Olympus, you're an insignificant little snail-darter?


No, dummy: your Zeus Will Judge & You Are Not Worthy schtick. You sound like an extra in a Cecil B. DeMille movie.

[sasaint]

I've come around? LOL. You didn't just move the goal post, you switched ends on the damn field. :blah

I liked White when they drafted him. But I'll admit that I have come around on him as a PG from the beginning of the season. But he's not even the same player he was at the beginning of the season. It has been a fun transformation to watch.

No big deal, but yeah, you’ve come around, as indicated in your second paragraph. You may have liked White from jump, but you posted not long ago that he wasn’t a true PG. I only indicated that you have come around on him as a PG.

[sasaint]

I don't know who you think you are, but you aren't who you think you are. Jackie Butler got his contract and quit basketball - he just stayed around to cash checks. The contract wasn't "cheap" by the standards of that time. It was a three year deal, and he played in exactly 11 games for the rest of his career. The Spurs had to give up rights to Louis Scola to salary dump his lazy fat ass.

It was quite possibly the worst deal in PATFO history. The fact that you don't know that says a lot. The fact that you would try to lecture someone who does know, just because you went to Basketball Reference and looked up his salary means:

You have been judged and found unworthy.

Wow, Jackie Butler. That deal was so horrible that he gets mentioned on ST even less than HWNSNBM!

[phxspurfan]

I don't know who you think you are, but you aren't who you think you are. Jackie Butler got his contract and quit basketball - he just stayed around to cash checks. The contract wasn't "cheap" by the standards of that time. It was a three year deal, and he played in exactly 11 games for the rest of his career. The Spurs had to give up rights to Louis Scola to salary dump his lazy fat ass.

It was quite possibly the worst deal in PATFO history. The fact that you don't know that says a lot. The fact that you would try to lecture someone who does know, just because you went to Basketball Reference and looked up his salary means:

You have been judged and found unworthy.

Roast dat nasf

[sasaint]

Murray had a very hard time setting up the offense. He's got as much court vision as DeRozan. In short, virtually none.

I think we forget that Murray had guys like Parker and Manu to back him up.

I think a lot of ST posters are so starved for some athleticism in silver and black that it prejudices their assessment of his actual BB skill set.

[Dex]

One of the reasons I feel so optimistic about this summer's draft: if the Spurs have two shots in the first round, I'm betting at least one is a winner.

Here is hoping. People are talking about the Toronto pick like it's gonna be useless, but Spurs were stuck with 25th-30th pick for like two decades and seemed to do just fine.

Dejounte Murray and Derrick White were both picked at #29.

Davis wasn't picked by the Spurs, but he's a #42 pick that has turned into a valuable player.

Or we could could try to pair the picks to move up in the draft and get another top 15 guy.

[K...]

So which part is mythology?

Butler didn't sign a 3 year deal, and then only play 11 games for the rest of his career?
Did the Spurs really WANT to get rid of Scola's rights?
Did the Spurs really WANT to sign Spanoulis, knowing that he had left the NBA to go back to Europe?

Surely you don't doubt that from up here on Olympus, you're an insignificant little snail-darter?

The Spurs had their chance to sign scola but didn't want to pay. It wasn't a huge asset for the Spurs, more of a sunk loss. This does not mean Jackie Butler did not suck hard balls, he did.

[sasaint]

Here is hoping. People are talking about the Toronto pick like it's gonna be useless, but Spurs were stuck with 25th-30th pick for like two decades and seemed to do just fine.

Dejounte Murray and Derrick White were both picked at #29.

Davis wasn't picked by the Spurs, but he's a #42 pick that has turned into a valuable player.

Or we could could try to pair the picks to move up in the draft and get another top 15 guy.

Absolutely! The Toronto pick is like our traditional slot; we find plenty of good prospects there. It’s our own pick that is gravy. I honestly have no idea how PATFO will handle this draft. We already have more youth than is typical, so I don’t know how comfortable Pop would be bringing in 2 first-rounders (not even considering a 2nd).

[D-Robinson 50 fan]

Glad you have come around. White is a PG, with the makings of an excellent one. In addition to your excellent observations, another point about him is White makes guys around him better - including LMA. I didn’t see that from Murray. Not to be misunderstood - I am a fan of Murray. But it is he who needs to concentrate on improving his shooting to become our SG.

I agree 100% with this statement. If Murray can hit the 3 at 35% on at least 4 attempts per game next season I feel him DeRozan and White would have no issues being on the court together. Last season Murray shot the corner 3 at a decent % if I recall correctly

[exstatic]

My take may be "dense" like you say but yours is just wrong. Was Cojo the BPA? Milutinov? LJC? Nope none of those were the best player available. 2 of them were drafted for need (I have no idea why we picked LJC). Kawhi was also drafted for a need (we know this bc Pop said so a million times.

Hey look, Tony Parker is gettin older and slower so we draft DJ. Gino is 40 and we probably need another combo guard to take his spot and what do you know, they draft White. Lonnie was BPA but he also filled a team need (like the 2 picks before him did).

3 years in a row RC has drafted guards AND he picked up 2 more guards this offseason. Pop and RC may be stuck between 2 players in the 27-29th pick in this year's draft (since it's pretty much a crapshoot) and RC wants a guard while Pop wants a big man. It's up to RC to bring pop over to his page (like he did with Kawhi). If we draft a guard this year (BPA or not) it signals that RC doesn't have the same faith in Mills and Forbes as Pop does. 8 guards on one team is kinda a lot

We never really know what the Spurs 'board' looks like. They may have had Cojo as BPA. I did, however, forget one factor, because they don't do it much any more, so I'll amend my statement: The Spurs don't draft for need, they draft the best player available, or a draft and stash type.

As for drafting guards three years in a row, it was widely accepted that Dejounte fell WAY farther than folks thought he would, and was BPA for that #29 spot. Didn't hear much about White, pre-draft, but you certainly could make a case that it wasn't for 'need', since they had just drafted a PG in Dejounte. LW IV, by accounts, was top 10 on the Spurs board, and they got him at #17. Again, BPA. You keep saying 'RC drafted'. It's not a solo endevor. PATFO sit down after the draft pool is finalized, and set up their board of 60 players. When their pick comes up, the work has already been done. They pick the highest available player left on their board, or, they pick a draft and stash. The'll know in advance, though, which way they will likely go. They drafted Mulinitov because they were clearing the financial decks for LaMarcus and needed every dollar.

[Kobe'sAchilles]

We never really know what the Spurs 'board' looks like. They may have had Cojo as BPA. I did, however, forget one factor, because they don't do it much any more, so I'll amend my statement: The Spurs don't draft for need, they draft the best player available, or a draft and stash type.

As for drafting guards three years in a row, it was widely accepted that Dejounte fell WAY farther than folks thought he would, and was BPA for that #29 spot. Didn't hear much about White, pre-draft, but you certainly could make a case that it wasn't for 'need', since they had just drafted a PG in Dejounte. LW IV, by accounts, was top 10 on the Spurs board, and they got him at #17. Again, BPA. You keep saying 'RC drafted'. It's not a solo endevor. PATFO sit down after the draft pool is finalized, and set up their board of 60 players. When their pick comes up, the work has already been done. They pick the highest available player left on their board, or, they pick a draft and stash. The'll know in advance, though, which way they will likely go. They drafted Mulinitov because they were clearing the financial decks for LaMarcus and needed every dollar.

I know they make the decision together but they draft for need all the time. Sure DJ and White were BPA but they were also for need. We needed younger guards to replace the older guards. So to say they don't draft for need is wrong. I also know why they drafted Milu as well, it was just another example of not drafting solely on BPA as you claimed. Just like Kawhi was drafted on a need.

My point wasn't to say that RC and pop don't make decisions together. Of course they do. I know they make a list of players and rank them. And if a player falls in their lap like DJ and Lonnie then they pounce on them.

My point is to all the people who say that Pop will never get rid of Patty or Forbes bc he likes them too much. Pop may love them but RC may be looking to replace them. If Pop and RC do their job well and we get another steal at 18 or so then where is the fit for Forbes? What if Lonnie has a jump next year? Do the Spurs really need next year's pick? That's a lot of youth to have on the team when maybe a player and a 1st round pick will net them a more established player. Mills could be gone to make the salary work

[ceperez]

Here is hoping. People are talking about the Toronto pick like it's gonna be useless, but Spurs were stuck with 25th-30th pick for like two decades and seemed to do just fine.

Dejounte Murray and Derrick White were both picked at #29.

Davis wasn't picked by the Spurs, but he's a #42 pick that has turned into a valuable player.

Or we could could try to pair the picks to move up in the draft and get another top 15 guy.

I'm not sure if other teams would like to deal with the Spurs.

After what they did to Pacers, no GM would like to be made into a complete fool!

The way most GMs think is they would rather avoid looking like a fool than make a bold move.

[ceperez]

I agree 100% with this statement. If Murray can hit the 3 at 35% on at least 4 attempts per game next season I feel him DeRozan and White would have no issues being on the court together. Last season Murray shot the corner 3 at a decent % if I recall correctly

Walker IV has a much better chance at hitting the 3 at 35% than Murray.

Let's be real here about Murray's upside, he's a long and thin Patrick Beverly. Very good defensively and rebounding. Marginal offensive player.

[sasaint]

I'm not sure if other teams would like to deal with the Spurs.

After what they did to Pacers, no GM would like to be made into a complete fool!

The way most GMs think is they would rather avoid looking like a fool than make a bold move.

I think many fans overstate the continuing impact of the Pacers trade. A lot of water under the bridge since then, including the recent Number 2 trade. Heck, there may be some GMs licking their chops to engage the Spurs as a trade partner. Other than the Pacers deal, I can't recall any trade the Spurs made that fleeced their trade partner.

[SpurPadre]

That's a pretty unreasonable standard to hold a franchise to. They do have, by far, in a small market many stars wouldn't consider, the longest running playoff streak in the NBA, and 5 rings in 20 years. So, against 29 other franchises-- many with more money to spend-- the Spurs have won 25% of the championships over two decades.

Don't get me wrong, I'm certainly not holding them accountable for not having 21 titles. My main point is that they can't be justified all the time. They're human and they make mistakes.

[sasaint]

Walker IV has a much better chance at hitting the 3 at 35% than Murray.

Let's be real here about Murray's upside, he's a long and thin Patrick Beverly. Very good defensively and rebounding. Marginal offensive player.

The jury is out. If the speculation is accurate about Murray's work on his 3-point shot - and the results - then 35% seems very realistic for Murray. I think the real question is whether LWIV can hit at a rate that is closer to 40%. Judging by his form, that also seems realistic. Neither one has shown much court vision or floor game. But beyond the shooting and floor game, Murray has shown very good defensive chops, whereas LWIV looks lost on D.

[ZeusWillJudge]

Don't get me wrong, I'm certainly not holding them accountable for not having 21 titles. My main point is that they can't be justified all the time. They're human and they make mistakes.

I knew exactly what you meant. He moved the goal posts on you. Just because PATFO had done a lot of good things doesn't mean that they haven't also made some mistakes. It's really not a difficult concept, except for people who want to be contrary and argue about everything.

[TimmyBuckets]

White and Murray backcourt or White off the bench. Pop is gonna fiddle with the lineups, but those 2 together is gonna be fantastic defensively.

[look_at_g_shred]

Pop loves defense so why wouldn’t they start together?

[look_at_g_shred]

Pop loves defense so why wouldn’t they start together?

[cd021]

Pop loves defense so why wouldn’t they start together?
Chance are its a bad fit. Murray may still not be able to shoot despite his reported progress, White is a low volume 3pt shooter and DeRozan is useless without the ball. DeRozan and Murray are both going to need the ball meaning White would probably play mostly off the ball even though he is probably the best passer of the three.

Murray, Forbes, DeRozan, Gay, Aldridge
Mills, White, Belinelli, Bertans, Poeltl

makes a lot more sense; White can have long stretches where he can be the primary ball handler off the bench and still end up playing like 28 mpg. DeRozan would be the primary ball handler and Murray, the secondary, in the starting lineup and Forbes would be in there to space the floor.

The closing lineups would still likely be Murray, White, DeRozan, Gay/Bertans and LMA though.

[Rusty]

Should just trade Dejounte Murray and Demar. That’ll solve all the problem

[SpurPadre]

I knew exactly what you meant. He moved the goal posts on you. Just because PATFO had done a lot of good things doesn't mean that they haven't also made some mistakes. It's really not a difficult concept, except for people who want to be contrary and argue about everything.

Thanks for understanding, bro.

[XDT76]

Chance are its a bad fit. Murray may still not be able to shoot despite his reported progress, White is a low volume 3pt shooter and DeRozan is useless without the ball. DeRozan and Murray are both going to need the ball meaning White would probably play mostly off the ball even though he is probably the best passer of the three.

Murray, Forbes, DeRozan, Gay, Aldridge
Mills, White, Belinelli, Bertans, Poeltl

makes a lot more sense; White can have long stretches where he can be the primary ball handler off the bench and still end up playing like 28 mpg. DeRozan would be the primary ball handler and Murray, the secondary, in the starting lineup and Forbes would be in there to space the floor.

The closing lineups would still likely be Murray, White, DeRozan, Gay/Bertans and LMA though.

I would swap Gay and Bertans, Gay would provide a bit of iso play in the second team and bertans to provide more spacing to the SL.

[ceperez]

I would swap Gay and Bertans, Gay would provide a bit of iso play in the second team and bertans to provide more spacing to the SL.

Gay should be that guy who plays the Manu role. Super sub and then play during crunch time.

[GusT15]

Gay should be that guy who plays the Manu role. Super sub and then play during crunch time.

Manu was not a "role" and hence he cannot be played or replicated by anybody else than Manu himself.

Mirotic is a super sub for the Bucks,Iguodala was a super sub for the Warriors,Gordon was a super sub for the Rockets.

Manu was a hall of famer who scored,created for the others,took charges and played defense.And he had the Spurs bench destroy opposing bench units year after year.

Rudy Gay can score,sure,but he doesn't make Patty Mills a 3point specialist while hiding his deficiencies,he doesn't direct the entire perimeter defense,he doesn't control the tempo and he doesn't take over games when the starters take a breather.

[John B]

White is fast becoming a solid two-way player. While Kawhi was able to score, he never distributed. White with his defense, scoring had to still facilitate. That’s Gary Peyton with rebounding. Dang.

[John B]

Chance are its a bad fit. Murray may still not be able to shoot despite his reported progress, White is a low volume 3pt shooter and DeRozan is useless without the ball. DeRozan and Murray are both going to need the ball meaning White would probably play mostly off the ball even though he is probably the best passer of the three.

Murray, Forbes, DeRozan, Gay, Aldridge
Mills, White, Belinelli, Bertans, Poeltl

makes a lot more sense; White can have long stretches where he can be the primary ball handler off the bench and still end up playing like 28 mpg. DeRozan would be the primary ball handler and Murray, the secondary, in the starting lineup and Forbes would be in there to space the floor.

The closing lineups would still likely be Murray, White, DeRozan, Gay/Bertans and LMA though.
I don’t see why White would take a backseat to Murray, when Murray is just all potential. We don’t even know he could shoot. While White has shown he is Spurs best 2-way player right now, MVP-like the way he changes entirely Spurs chances of winning when he plays. Why would a play like that take the backseat? I say, Murray needs to prove himself first and slowy gets reinserted in the system.

[ceperez]

Manu was not a "role" and hence he cannot be played or replicated by anybody else than Manu himself.

Mirotic is a super sub for the Bucks,Iguodala was a super sub for the Warriors,Gordon was a super sub for the Rockets.

Manu was a hall of famer who scored,created for the others,took charges and played defense.And he had the Spurs bench destroy opposing bench units year after year.

Rudy Gay can score,sure,but he doesn't make Patty Mills a 3point specialist while hiding his deficiencies,he doesn't direct the entire perimeter defense,he doesn't control the tempo and he doesn't take over games when the starters take a breather.

A thousand apologies about calling Manu a role.

I meant, he should play on 2nd team, but remain with the team on crunch time. That's all.

[ceperez]

White is fast becoming a solid two-way player. While Kawhi was able to score, he never distributed. White with his defense, scoring had to still facilitate. That’s Gary Peyton with rebounding. Dang.

Exacto! Kahwi could never make his teammates better on offense. He knew that and that's why he decided to bail under the pressure.

[ceperez]

I don’t see why White would take a backseat to Murray, when Murray is just all potential. We don’t even know he could shoot. While White has shown he is Spurs best 2-way player right now, MVP-like the way he changes entirely Spurs chances of winning when he plays. Why would a play like that take the backseat? I say, Murray needs to prove himself first and slowy gets reinserted in the system.

Right. We saw Murray play last season and it was a complete miracle that the offense did not completely gunk up with him having the ball.

That team had Manu, Parker and even Anderson that knew where to move the ball to. Murray by himself couldn't read a defensive set even if his life was on the line.

Does anyone have any highlights of Murray with a stellar assist?

He defended well and he had a decent penetration game. That is all that he could do.

[Dejounte]

Derrick and Forbes should go to the bench. Having a 6'3" starting shooting guard should will never be championship caliber and these two already have chemistry together.

Lonnie is a shooter and hopefully speeds up his development so he could start alongside Murray.

Dejounte
Lonnie
DeMar
Aldridge
Poetl

White
Forbes
Gay
Bertans
Metu

[GusT15]

A thousand apologies about calling Manu a role.

I meant, he should play on 2nd team, but remain with the team on crunch time. That's all.

Well,you're right,but the biggest problem with the 2nd unit this year is the lack of a proper play maker.

White can't play 40 mins per game,Patty is not that kind of a point guard (if you can call him a PG at all).
And Gay basically will play post up iso while 4 others guys are not moving at all.

At least with Bertans in the bench unit you can actually call it the 3pt line up.

Ideally the bench unit could use DDR instead of Gay for heavy minutes IF DeRozan would pass quicker and more sensibly when slashing.DeRozan's face up iso is more useful than Gay with his back to the basket.

[D-Robinson 50 fan]

Walker IV has a much better chance at hitting the 3 at 35% than Murray.

Let's be real here about Murray's upside, he's a long and thin Patrick Beverly. Very good defensively and rebounding. Marginal offensive player.

Shooting is a skill that with serious repetition and training can be improved. There are numerous players who made themselves into better shooters after years of not being a shooter like Jason Kidd or even a guy like Blake Griffin the last couple of seasons who has opened his game up by being able to hit deep jumpers and 3's.

[D-Robinson 50 fan]

I don’t see why White would take a backseat to Murray, when Murray is just all potential. We don’t even know he could shoot. While White has shown he is Spurs best 2-way player right now, MVP-like the way he changes entirely Spurs chances of winning when he plays. Why would a play like that take the backseat? I say, Murray needs to prove himself first and slowy gets reinserted in the system.

Exactly! White is a way better point guard at this point and eventhough Murray can and most likely will get better at setting others up for easy shots, I believe White should start next season. Or the team should at least not automatically give the starting job back to Murray without him earning it back with his play

[SpaceCoast Spursfan]

I know they make the decision together but they draft for need all the time. Sure DJ and White were BPA but they were also for need. We needed younger guards to replace the older guards. So to say they don't draft for need is wrong. I also know why they drafted Milu as well, it was just another example of not drafting solely on BPA as you claimed. Just like Kawhi was drafted on a need.

My point wasn't to say that RC and pop don't make decisions together. Of course they do. I know they make a list of players and rank them. And if a player falls in their lap like DJ and Lonnie then they pounce on them.

My point is to all the people who say that Pop will never get rid of Patty or Forbes bc he likes them too much. Pop may love them but RC may be looking to replace them. If Pop and RC do their job well and we get another steal at 18 or so then where is the fit for Forbes? What if Lonnie has a jump next year? Do the Spurs really need next year's pick? That's a lot of youth to have on the team when maybe a player and a 1st round pick will net them a more established player. Mills could be gone to make the salary work

I don't know anything about the Spurs specific drat process, but almost all teams draft BPA first, need 2nd. I know I read an article (can't remember which team) but they used a number grade system (30 being highest possible grade) and created color coded teirs as many players would have same grade or be separated by less than full point. Their rule was you never dropped a teir to select based on need. So they may pick a guard graded at 26.5 over a C graded at 26.8. So need could be placed over BPA but only when the two players had received similar grades. The personnel executives quoted in the article made it sound like most (if not all teams) use a similar approach. So talent and need are considered but the ability of an organization to recognize and properly grade players is the most important part of process.

[cjw]

Especially in this day and age of interchangeability, you should always draft BPA unless it’s a guy who is limited on the floor in terms of lineup fit (say you have a glut of bigs, and the guy is a big who can’t stretch the floor ... unless the difference to next BPA is that great in which case you figure out the fit issue later).

People complaining about Murray forget he just turned 22 and already made an All D team. Even if the offense never materializes, he’s a useful rotation guard for 20+ minutes a game. But during his ACL rehab I’m certain he’s in the gym working that jumper. The fit next to White could be a lot better than you think next year. We already know it will be stellar on defense.

[Russ]

Right. We saw Murray play last season and it was a complete miracle that the offense did not completely gunk up with him having the ball.

That team had Manu, Parker and even Anderson that knew where to move the ball to. Murray by himself couldn't read a defensive set even if his life was on the line.

Does anyone have any highlights of Murray with a stellar assist?

He defended well and he had a decent penetration game. That is all that he could do.

Murray is actually a very good passer (don't let his shooting woes overshadow his other offensive skills).

In fact, he's probably the best passer of the Spurs young guards. He's been missed this season on offense as well as defense.

Check out the assists on this video at 0:01, 0:21, 1:03, 1:25, and 2:04.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7FjRmMsrWU

V7FjRmMsrWU

[exstatic]

It's funny. This board clamors for athleticism and length in the draft, and then when we get that in Dejounte, most are ready to relegate him to the bench after 1.5 seasons of play.

[ceperez]

It's funny. This board clamors for athleticism and length in the draft, and then when we get that in Dejounte, most are ready to relegate him to the bench after 1.5 seasons of play.

That's because there is actually someone better than him in the starting line up. There is also someone better than him that just got drafted.

[exstatic]

That's because there is actually someone better than him in the starting line up. There is also someone better than him that just got drafted.

Walker, while brimming with potential, is NOT better than Dejounte. LW IV projects as a deadeye shooter, passable distributor, and passable defender. The one thing that gives me pause about him is that he scores, and drops a few dimes, and that's really it. He's a sub par rebounder for his size and athletic ability. He's not a ball hawk on defense, nor does he block shots. He really fills two spots in the box score: points and maybe a few assists. He's pretty much the definition of an off the bench scorer.

Dejounte fills up the box score across the line, points, assists, premium rebounding ability for his size and position, steals and is already an All Defense player.

[ceperez]

Walker, while brimming with potential, is NOT better than Dejounte. LW IV projects as a deadeye shooter, passable distributor, and passable defender. The one thing that gives me pause about him is that he scores, and drops a few dimes, and that's really it. He's a sub par rebounder for his size and athletic ability. He's not a ball hawk on defense, nor does he block shots. He really fills two spots in the box score: points and maybe a few assists. He's pretty much the definition of an off the bench scorer.

Dejounte fills up the box score across the line, points, assists, premium rebounding ability for his size and position, steals and is already an All Defense player.

I will disagree with you here. Only time will tell who is right. But I was right before when I said that White was better than Murray.

[K...]

Walker, while brimming with potential, is NOT better than Dejounte. LW IV projects as a deadeye shooter, passable distributor, and passable defender. The one thing that gives me pause about him is that he scores, and drops a few dimes, and that's really it. He's a sub par rebounder for his size and athletic ability. He's not a ball hawk on defense, nor does he block shots. He really fills two spots in the box score: points and maybe a few assists. He's pretty much the definition of an off the bench scorer.

Dejounte fills up the box score across the line, points, assists, premium rebounding ability for his size and position, steals and is already an All Defense player.

Hmm, points and assists, like a PG!

[exstatic]

I will disagree with you here. Only time will tell who is right. But I was right before when I said that White was better than Murray.

Better at some things (shooting, distributing) not better at others ( rebounding, defending).

Through their first season and half, or so

Dejounte W/S 3.2 VORP 1.2
Derrick W/S 3.5 VORP 1.2

Per 36
Dejounte P:13.7 A:4.9 R:8.7
Derrick P:14.0 A:5.1 R:5.3

[exstatic]

Hmm, points and assists, like a PG!

No. LW IV is the only non-PG in the group. I don't even think he could be trained up. At best, he's the dreaded combo guard.

[ceperez]

Better at some things (shooting, distributing) not better at others ( rebounding, defending).

Through their first season and half, or so

Dejounte W/S 3.2 VORP 1.2
Derrick W/S 3.5 VORP 1.2

Per 36
Dejounte P:13.7 A:4.9 R:8.7
Derrick P:14.0 A:5.1 R:5.3

Derrick White is hands down a better player than Dejoute Murray (PERIOD).

Don't even bother splitting hairs like 'he rebounds and defends better".

Do NOT disrespect the best player in the Spurs roster.

[spurraider21]

as long as their minutes are generally staggered, i dont see any particular problem starting them both. im pretty sure we saw the same thing with LMA/Duncan

i just dont want to see the mills/forbes duo at the same time

[BackHome]

Tony VS Manu all over again. Lol

[DAF86]

Better at some things (shooting, distributing) not better at others ( rebounding, defending).

Through their first season and half, or so

Dejounte W/S 3.2 VORP 1.2
Derrick W/S 3.5 VORP 1.2

Per 36
Dejounte P:13.7 A:4.9 R:8.7
Derrick P:14.0 A:5.1 R:5.3

I'm not sure Dejounte is better than White at defending, tbh.

[exstatic]

Derrick White is hands down a better player than Dejoute Murray (PERIOD).

Don't even bother splitting hairs like 'he rebounds and defends better".

Do NOT disrespect the best player in the Spurs roster.

Naming two skills where DJ is clearly better, backed by hard stats numbers, and a coaches All Defense selection is now "splitting hairs"? And by looking at numbers adjusted to playing time, you don't see that they're BOTH great young guards, just different?

[exstatic]

I'm not sure Dejounte is better than White at defending, tbh.

Until White gets an NBA coaches selected All D slot, I'll stand by my assertion. White is better at the p'n'r, and shot blocking, DJ at rebounding and ball hawking.

[ZeusWillJudge]

Here's the funny thing. People say that White can't start because he's a low-volume 3P shooter. But he's put up 3.9 3P attempts per 100 possessions, and has shot .351 on them. Last year, Kyle Anderson put up 1.5 per 100 possessions, and shot .333 on them. Murray put up 1.0 and shot .265. In other words - White has been putting up AND making more 3-pointers than Anderson and Murray PUT TOGETHER. Put Murray on the floor to collapse defenses, and White will get more/better 3P looks. They'll need him to shoot a little better than .351, but I think that's almost a given. Right now, a lot of his 3P looks are unassisted. If they work together like I think they can, he'll be getting fed more of them, and that will translate into a higher percentage. Throw Gay or Bertans into the lineup, and you've got enough 3P shooting to keep defenses honest.

As for the people underestimating Murray - you shouldn't. Yes, White is dishing out 7.3 AST per 100 possessions this year. But last year Murray dished 6.7 AST per 100 possessions, which isn't that far behind. I'm not going to write a paper on why White is a better PG, but Murray is still a guy you want on the floor. And I might as well mention that DeRozan is dishing out 8.4 AST per 100 possessions, which is more than White or Murray.

[DAF86]

Until White gets an NBA coaches selected All D slot, I'll stand by my assertion. White is better at the p'n'r, and shot blocking, DJ at rebounding and ball hawking.

I would rather not base my opinion on an accolade that rewarded Kobe Bryant more times than Tim Duncan, tbh.

[exstatic]

I would rather not base my opinion on an accolade that rewarded Kobe Bryant more times than Tim Duncan, tbh.

They've cleaned it up in recent years. Check the history. LeBron hasn't made either first or second since 2013-2014. It's going to deserving players now.

Oh, and you might want to fact check yourself: Tim 15 selections, Kobe 12

[DAF86]

Here's the funny thing. People say that White can't start because he's a low-volume 3P shooter. But he's put up 3.9 3P attempts per 100 possessions, and has shot .351 on them. Last year, Kyle Anderson put up 1.5 per 100 possessions, and shot .333 on them. Murray put up 1.0 and shot .265. In other words - White has been putting up AND making more 3-pointers than Anderson and Murray PUT TOGETHER. Put Murray on the floor to collapse defenses, and White will get more/better 3P looks. They'll need him to shoot a little better than .351, but I think that's almost a given. Right now, a lot of his 3P looks are unassisted. If they work together like I think they can, he'll be getting fed more of them, and that will translate into a higher percentage. Throw Gay or Bertans into the lineup, and you've got enough 3P shooting to keep defenses honest.

As for the people underestimating Murray - you shouldn't. Yes, White is dishing out 7.3 AST per 100 possessions this year. But last year Murray dished 6.7 AST per 100 possessions, which isn't that far behind. I'm not going to write a paper on why White is a better PG, but Murray is still a guy you want on the floor. And I might as well mention that DeRozan is dishing out 8.4 AST per 100 possessions, which is more than White or Murray.

Neither White nor Murray are the problem. They could easily start together if the other perimeter player wasn't DeRozan. At this point I would rather trade DeRozan for someone like Otto Porter and a draft pick and just let Derrick White go become the number one guy. I really think he has it in him to become an all-star.

Murray, White, Porter, Bertans and Aldridge.

If White improves like I think he will, that lineup is easily a better one than the one we had this season.

[DAF86]

They've cleaned it up in recent years. Check the history. LeBron hasn't made either first or second since 2013-2014. It's going to deserving players now.

Oh, and you might want to fact check yourself: Tim 15 selections, Kobe 12

If they cleaned it up, then White makes it this year. Who you got then?

[exstatic]

If they cleaned it up, then White makes it this year. Who you got then?

I'd call it a draw, and aren't we lucky to have them both?

[RC_Drunkford]

say what you want but White and Aldridge have to be on the court together as much as possible. Their pick & roll game is getting better and better and it's getting very hard for teams to defend it. If that means Murray comes off the bench then that should be his role. It all depends on how his shot looks

[spurraider21]

I'm not sure Dejounte is better than White at defending, tbh.
dejounte is an off-ball demon tbh, and he flashes on ball but is far from consistent. white is so much more sound on the ball. his change of direction skill on that end is ridiculous. so many times watching him it looks like he bit on a guys fake but is always on balance and able to adjust.

while i would agree that white is a better on-ball defender, people are downplaying murray's defensive impact. his defensive on-off numbers were elite last year (7.6 differential defensively). white this year has a 4.2 differential on defense. both are very good. but murray was actually a mild negative on offense while white is positive on both sides. murray's offensive deficiencies will only look worse sharing the floor with derozan, though... thats why ive said the only way that lineup works is with Bertans starting instead of poeltl/gay

[ceperez]

Until White gets an NBA coaches selected All D slot, I'll stand by my assertion. White is better at the p'n'r, and shot blocking, DJ at rebounding and ball hawking.

I'll give you one skill... rebounding.

All you are really saying is that Dennis Rodman is better than Michael Jordan because Rodman is a better rebounder. Piss poor argument.

[DAF86]

I'd call it a draw, and aren't we lucky to have them both?

Yes, I like the promise of a White-Murray backcourt, I would just rather have a 3D guy instead of DeRozan.

[BD24]

dejounte is an off-ball demon tbh, and he flashes on ball but is far from consistent. white is so much more sound on the ball. his change of direction skill on that end is ridiculous. so many times watching him it looks like he bit on a guys fake but is always on balance and able to adjust.
This.

DJ's length and superior athletiscism makes him a terror off the ball, but his on the ball defense isn't as good as Whites. That mainly has to do with White's superior bball iq and more under control playing style though. DJ has the potential to be a fantastic on ball defender as well. He would just need to put on some muscle and improve his bball iq. You would hope that playing with White would help with that.

[exstatic]

I'll give you one skill... rebounding.

All you are really saying is that Dennis Rodman is better than Michael Jordan because Rodman is a better rebounder. Piss poor argument.

Why are you using such a dumb example? Can you post their numbers and say they're close? No, you can't, but I did with White and DJ. Stop with your stupid drama takes.

DJ is clearly a better rebounder. The rest of the per game numbers are a toss up.

[exstatic]

This.

DJ's length and superior athletiscism makes him a terror off the ball, but his on the ball defense isn't as good as Whites. That mainly has to do with White's superior bball iq and more under control playing style though. DJ has the potential to be a fantastic on ball defender as well. He would just need to put on some muscle and improve his bball iq. You would hope that playing with White would help with that.

Pop always says that the defense isn't done until the rebound is secured. DJ's pretty good at that, too.

[BD24]

Pop always says that the defense isn't done until the rebound is secured. DJ's pretty good at that, too.
Yep, I'm really high on DJ and would like to see him and White start together next year. White as the primary ball handler. If DJ's shot has improved enough its very doable. They would be an absolute terror on defense, they just need to be passable at first on offense.

[spurraider21]

last season dejounte averaged 9.5 rebounds per 36.

white is a solid rebound guy but not in that atmosphere

[ZeusWillJudge]

Neither White nor Murray are the problem. They could easily start together if the other perimeter player wasn't DeRozan. At this point I would rather trade DeRozan for someone like Otto Porter and a draft pick and just let Derrick White go become the number one guy. I really think he has it in him to become an all-star.

Murray, White, Porter, Bertans and Aldridge.

If White improves like I think he will, that lineup is easily a better one than the one we had this season.


I hate making big long posts. I deleted the part about putting Gay or Bertans into that lineup. If White gets more/better 3P looks, like I think he will, then either of those guys will add enough 3P shooting to keep defenses honest. And the defense will be outrageous.

There was a time when LMA was shooting the 3 pretty effectively. I wouldn't mind seeing him drop out a little more often next year.

[exstatic]

last season dejounte averaged 9.5 rebounds per 36.

white is a solid rebound guy but not in that atmosphere

I would categorize White as a very good rebounding guard. DJ is just All Universe. He's got that Rodman vision where just from a glance at the flight and the arc of the ball, he knows how the ball will come off of the glass or rim, where to be to grab the board, and is athletically gifted enough to grab most of them.

[BackHome]

I would rather have White and Murray run point then Forbes or Mills tbh. And I think it’s a good idea to groom both of them at PG/SG cause in case one gets hurt we have a good back up with no breaking in issues.

[ZeusWillJudge]

White pulls down a very respectable 6.9 RB per 100 possessions. The always-overlooked DeRozan pulls down 8.4. And Murray was getting a freakish 13.3 RB per 100 possessions last season (substantially more than Anderson). I don't know where 28.6 RB per 100 ranks in NBA frontcourts, but I have to think it's pretty damn high.

[exstatic]

I would rather have White and Murray run point then Forbes or Mills tbh. And I think it’s a good idea to groom both of them at PG/SG cause in case one gets hurt we have a good back up with no breaking in issues.

Plus, if you do that, either of them can always team up with the bench guys, and LW IV as the off guard, and run the show.

It's never a bad thing to have two guys who can run point. Just ask the Bad Boys, or the current edition of the Trailblazers.

[R. DeMurre]

It'll be nice if the Spurs draft Matisse Thybulle and Spurstalk is having these same "who's better on D" debates between Murray, White, and Thybulle.

[cd021]

I don’t see why White would take a backseat to Murray, when Murray is just all potential. We don’t even know he could shoot. While White has shown he is Spurs best 2-way player right now, MVP-like the way he changes entirely Spurs chances of winning when he plays. Why would a play like that take the backseat? I say, Murray needs to prove himself first and slowy gets reinserted in the system.

White being a 6th man and playing around 28 mpg isn't taking a back seat White would be able to run the offense for long stretches while Murray and DeRozan share the playmaking responsibility in the SL.

Murray was the starter before he got injured and deserves a chance to try to live up to that potential. It was clear that PATFO thought Murray was ready to breakout before he got injured and they tend to be right about things like that. I think that there is a way that they can both coexist without stepping on each other's toes, bringing White off the bench is a way to do that.

[ceperez]

White being a 6th man and playing around 28 mpg isn't taking a back seat White would be able to run the offense for long stretches while Murray and DeRozan share the playmaking responsibility in the SL.

Murray was the starter before he got injured and deserves a chance to try to live up to that potential. It was clear that PATFO thought Murray was ready to breakout before he got injured and they tend to be right about things like that. I think that there is a way that they can both coexist without stepping on each other's toes, bringing White off the bench is a way to do that.

I am not arguing that they can't coexist. Of course they can and it makes the Spurs a better team.

But to argue that Murray is in the same league as White is ludicrous.

White is the best player in the Spurs team and there's a reason why he is. Murray is just a role player, just like Forbes is a role player.

[K...]

White being a 6th man and playing around 28 mpg isn't taking a back seat White would be able to run the offense for long stretches while Murray and DeRozan share the playmaking responsibility in the SL.

Murray was the starter before he got injured and deserves a chance to try to live up to that potential. It was clear that PATFO thought Murray was ready to breakout before he got injured and they tend to be right about things like that. I think that there is a way that they can both coexist without stepping on each other's toes, bringing White off the bench is a way to do that.

Citation needed....cf ayres,

[cd021]

Citation needed....cf ayres,

PATFO thought that Kawhi was going to be a star-he is, White was going to be really good, he is. When it comes to evaluating their own prospects, they tend to be right. Had Murray not gotten injured, he may have had a breakout year.

[TDMVPDPOY]

lol mentioning that scrub murray in this this to keep him relevant...

[cd021]

I am not arguing that they can't coexist. Of course they can and it makes the Spurs a better team.

But to argue that Murray is in the same league as White is ludicrous.

White is the best player in the Spurs team and there's a reason why he is. Murray is just a role player, just like Forbes is a role player.

I don't think it's ludicrous. Murray's biggest flaw was his shooting but he had apparently made major strides in that regard. I would say White is a more complete player at this point but I still consider Murray to have a higher ceiling. Murray is certainly better than Forbes tbh, I'd argue that his defensive impact is stronger than Forbes offensive impact.

[GAustex]

If DDR could only hit the three...
Then White & Murry and DDR really work..and you can then mix in MVPatty, Forbes and LWIV
Teach Murry and DDR to hit a better percentage 3...then you got something

[DAF86]

I'd call it a draw, and aren't we lucky to have them both?

So you'd agree with me about not being sure of Murray being better than White at defense.

[8FOR!3]

So you'd agree with me about not being sure of Murray being better than White at defense.

Personally I'd have to think about it. Murray I think is a little bigger and stronger, seems to be more quick twitch although I realize White is also pretty athletic and can move his feet quick himself. Defensively Murray reminds me of a mini Kawhi and White reminds me more of Green, maybe that's not a great comparison idk but that's how I kinda see it.

[8FOR!3]

If DDR could only hit the three...
Then White & Murry and DDR really work..and you can then mix in MVPatty, Forbes and LWIV
Teach Murry and DDR to hit a better percentage 3...then you got something

If Murray can shoot I think it'll work. If he can't I don't think he will start. DDR isn't going to shoot the 3 better, at least I don't think so, so he'll have to learn how to play within the offense.

[TDMVPDPOY]

murrys all defensive 2nd team selection last year, wtf did he shut down? didnt shut down anyone, all he did was crash the boards as a pg, hence nothing more then a consolation prize by the nba for pop losing all his key players and injuries

[SpaceCoast Spursfan]

Don't really know that the argument matters - Pop will get it figured out, and in the mean time as long as Murray has even marginally improved his jumper both guys will play at least 28 mins and probably more, and I expect both to be on the floor to close out games.

The real question is will PATFO be willing to do what it takes to get a legit starting caliber 3. We have played the whole year without a real SF, and will have no chance to truly contend until that gets resolved.

[Mr. Body]

murrys all defensive 2nd team selection last year, wtf did he shut down? didnt shut down anyone, all he did was crash the boards as a pg, hence nothing more then a consolation prize by the nba for pop losing all his key players and injuries

He's in with LeBron. He's a good defender, but it was all hype.

[TDMVPDPOY]

He's in with LeBron. He's a good defender, but it was all hype.

to keep himself relevant, relies on playerfans and doing stupid shit on his social media... reminds me of that other french turd on the team one time...

didnt want others get the lime light, has to remind everyone his still relevant by doing stupid shit off the court...

looks like he murry learnt someshit from that pos

[ZeusWillJudge]

So you'd agree with me about not being sure of Murray being better than White at defense.


It's just not that simple. Tim was a defensive monster, but he wasn't out on the perimeter like Bruce Bowen. I really think comparing White and Murray this way is an exercise in futility and a recipe for non-stop arguing. They are both very good defensive guards. And the Spurs have them both.

[SpursDynasty85]

So you'd agree with me about not being sure of Murray being better than White at defense.

Think he's trying to say. Why does it matter?

[weeks]

It's incredible how many of you grouchy old faggots care about how a kid uses social media. Timmy was a unicorn, you shouldn't expect young millionaires to be like him.
I like how outgoing and confident DJ is. I think he's good for the team morale and I like that he's bringing attention to the team. You want your players to be supremely confident and motivated

[TDMVPDPOY]

It's incredible how many of you grouchy old faggots care about how a kid uses social media. Timmy was a unicorn, you shouldn't expect young millionaires to be like him.
I like how outgoing and confident DJ is. I think he's good for the team morale and I like that he's bringing attention to the team. You want your players to be supremely confident and motivated

hasnt proven shit on the court

[SpurPadre]

Tonight is exhibit A of why I think we need to temper our expectations of White. He is too inconsistent on offense. I know he had 7 dimes but he can't get away with 1-5 shooting on most nights, particularly next season when Murray is chomping at the bit to prove his worth as the starting PG. In other words, stop crowning White already and let's see who wins the job outright by next preseason. He certainly can't get away with nights like this in the playoffs.

[tbdog]

That's fine. Second year player. Playing the most basketball in his life. Didn't have a proper training camp. Probably a little banged up. Playoffs is the biggest test and team scout your tendencies.

[D-Robinson 50 fan]

It’s some weirdos on this site. Lol.

Im looking forward to seeing the improvement of the Spurs young players next season. I think Murray and White will end up starting together in the backcourt and hopefully they mesh well enough for it to work for many years to follow

[r0drig0lac]

Tonight is exhibit A of why I think we need to temper our expectations of White. He is too inconsistent on offense. I know he had 7 dimes but he can't get away with 1-5 shooting on most nights, particularly next season when Murray is chomping at the bit to prove his worth as the starting PG. In other words, stop crowning White already and let's see who wins the job outright by next preseason. He certainly can't get away with nights like this in the playoffs.

yep, some people here know that we need to wait longer before putting White as the greatest player in basketball history

[RD2191]

Is D White really that good or are our other guards just that bad?

[RD2191]

Tonight is exhibit A of why I think we need to temper our expectations of White. He is too inconsistent on offense. I know he had 7 dimes but he can't get away with 1-5 shooting on most nights, particularly next season when Murray is chomping at the bit to prove his worth as the starting PG. In other words, stop crowning White already and let's see who wins the job outright by next preseason. He certainly can't get away with nights like this in the playoffs.

Shut up faggot. Stupid terrible take.

[vander]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=112&v=4ypAG1M1TT8

that's a joy to watch. hopefully Murray doesn't lose to much athleticism and quickness from that injury, I'm salivating at how good a defensive combo those 2 could be

[John B]

Tonight is exhibit A of why I think we need to temper our expectations of White. He is too inconsistent on offense. I know he had 7 dimes but he can't get away with 1-5 shooting on most nights, particularly next season when Murray is chomping at the bit to prove his worth as the starting PG. In other words, stop crowning White already and let's see who wins the job outright by next preseason. He certainly can't get away with nights like this in the playoffs.
I bet Pop is pushing him to takeover on offense more. Don’t blame the kid. He is trying different ways. As long as he’s learning from his experience, it’s just a positive going forward. Pop has found a new toy and he’s letting it loose and watching it creates havoc. He’ll reel him in if needed. But I think Pop truly believes he can dominate his position, and put pressure on his dependers come playoffs.

[exstatic]

Don't really know that the argument matters - Pop will get it figured out, and in the mean time as long as Murray has even marginally improved his jumper both guys will play at least 28 mins and probably more, and I expect both to be on the floor to close out games.

The real question is will PATFO be willing to do what it takes to get a legit starting caliber 3. We have played the whole year without a real SF, and will have no chance to truly contend until that gets resolved.
If we get ‘a legit starting caliber 3’, that throws DD back into the guard pool, and severely curtails minutes for our 3 young guards.

[John B]

If we get ‘a legit starting caliber 3’, that throws DD back into the guard pool, and severely curtails minutes for our 3 young guards.
I’ve been thinking about that. And I have been adamant for the need of legit 3 and D SF. But now seeing White improving every night, Pop was big on Murray last year and clearly showed it when he finally took that starting job from his long-time Padawan Parker. And I know Pop’s been salivating on athletic 3 guards combo. Do we get a “legit starting caliber 3?” Yup that’s a puzzle. Do we get a big name SF and risk messing the chemistry? Or develop from within, in hopes Huestis, Metu pans out? History dictates it’s the latter. I think he hasn’t given up on Demar improving more on defense. He will remain the staring SF for now. But without a 3pt shooter, that Murray, White, Demar, Aldridge and Poeltl is challenging. Maybe Bertans on 4 and Aldridge on 5? But Poeltl needs to start. The kid has so much potential as a starter. Spurs can’t risk shaking his confidence. And he’s more effective with a scoring PF like Aldridge, who can shoot and also get him open. Man, Pop has a lot to decide. Trade our picks to move up and get another defensive SF like Kawhi? Hmm.

[RD2191]

I’ve been thinking about that. And I have been adamant for the need of legit 3 and D SF. But now seeing White improving every night, Pop was big on Murray last year and clearly showed it when he finally took that starting job from his long-time Padawan Parker. And I know Pop’s been salivating on athletic 3 guards combo. Do we get a “legit starting caliber 3?” Yup that’s a puzzle. Do we get a big name SF and risk messing the chemistry? Or develop from within, in hopes Huestis, Metu pans out? History dictates it’s the latter. I think he hasn’t given up on Demar improving more on defense. He will remain the staring SF for now. But without a 3pt shooter, that Murray, White, Demar, Aldridge and Poeltl is challenging. Maybe Bertans on 4 and Aldridge on 5? But Poeltl needs to start. The kid has so much potential as a starter. Spurs can’t risk shaking his confidence. And he’s more effective with a scoring PF like Aldridge, who can shoot and also get him open. Man, Pop has a lot to decide. Trade our picks to move up and get another defensive SF like Kawhi? Hmm.

This is such a corny ass post. :lol

[John B]

This is such a corny ass post. :lol
:lol:lol:lol lazy saturday morning. Out to the hills though for mountain biking. Might change my views later

[SpaceCoast Spursfan]

Tonight is exhibit A of why I think we need to temper our expectations of White. He is too inconsistent on offense. I know he had 7 dimes but he can't get away with 1-5 shooting on most nights, particularly next season when Murray is chomping at the bit to prove his worth as the starting PG. In other words, stop crowning White already and let's see who wins the job outright by next preseason. He certainly can't get away with nights like this in the playoffs.

I guess that depends on what your expectations are. I am not sure exactly where White's ceiling is, but what I love about White is even if his shot isn't falling he is contributing by playing defense, creating for others and rebounding. Both DJ and White are players who can have positive impact even on off nights. Both need some improvement on jumpshot (for White only needs marginal improvement, DJ we will have to see) and finishing more consistently.

[cd021]

Tonight is exhibit A of why I think we need to temper our expectations of White. He is too inconsistent on offense. I know he had 7 dimes but he can't get away with 1-5 shooting on most nights, particularly next season when Murray is chomping at the bit to prove his worth as the starting PG. In other words, stop crowning White already and let's see who wins the job outright by next preseason. He certainly can't get away with nights like this in the playoffs.

This is essentially White's rookie year, it's a bit silly to call a player who has barely played 1000 minutes inconsistent on offense.

That is going to happen. Overall, his improvement from his first few games this season to now is staggering tbh, same could be said for Jakob.

[Ocotillo]

Now that we have the White vs. Murray debate, I hope they turn out to be as good for the team as the old school Parker vs. Ginobili argument turned out.

[cd021]

I’ve been thinking about that. And I have been adamant for the need of legit 3 and D SF. But now seeing White improving every night, Pop was big on Murray last year and clearly showed it when he finally took that starting job from his long-time Padawan Parker. And I know Pop’s been salivating on athletic 3 guards combo. Do we get a “legit starting caliber 3?” Yup that’s a puzzle. Do we get a big name SF and risk messing the chemistry? Or develop from within, in hopes Huestis, Metu pans out? History dictates it’s the latter. I think he hasn’t given up on Demar improving more on defense. He will remain the staring SF for now. But without a 3pt shooter, that Murray, White, Demar, Aldridge and Poeltl is challenging. Maybe Bertans on 4 and Aldridge on 5? But Poeltl needs to start. The kid has so much potential as a starter. Spurs can’t risk shaking his confidence. And he’s more effective with a scoring PF like Aldridge, who can shoot and also get him open. Man, Pop has a lot to decide. Trade our picks to move up and get another defensive SF like Kawhi? Hmm.

I think it's a given that DeRozan is going to be the starting 3 next season. The need for an defense minded small forward is negated somewhat with White, Murray and Poeltl all in the rotation.

Murray will likely reclaim his spot in the SL while White becomes the 6th man. There is a question about how the big man minutes get distributed next season, though.

[spurraider21]

I don’t think they’re going to start them together. Probably start white + Forbes and have Murray/mills off the bench. Maybe walker gets into the mix but it’s far from certain

as much as i want them to start Murray/white together, it’s going to be tough to make rotations work and give enough offensive spacing for derozan

[sasaint]

If we get ‘a legit starting caliber 3’, that throws DD back into the guard pool, and severely curtails minutes for our 3 young guards.

That's why I have been arguing since January that IF Dijon has developed a good 3-ball, DeMar would be made expendable. Re-allocating his salary for a good SF or even 2 rotation caliber players would be a much better use of $27MM.

IF Dijon has truly improved his 3-ball, and IF I am DeMar, I spend every spare minute in the gym with Chip improving my own 3-ball.

[BD24]

Was just looking at White's splits because I was curious what the numbers look like since he kind of took that step forward. I think January and March give you some good insight into what we can expect statistically from him going forward. His shooting pct won't be what it was in January, but I think something like 15 - 5 - 5 is more than reasonable for him. His scoring hasn't been as good in March as his fg% has regressed back to what is likely the mean. With that said his playmaking, rebounding, and defensive counting numbers have all improved this month. Small sample size I know, but will be interesting to see if he continues down this path. February wasn't great, but is such a small sample size and him coming off injury that I don't put a lot of stock in it. I think next year he could probably score between 15 - 20 ppg with efficiency similar to march depending on the amount of touches he receives.



January
15
30.9
5.7-9.6
.597
1.1-2.3
.471
2.8-3.7
.750
0.7
3.5
4.2
3.9
0.8
1.1
2.9
1.6
15.3


February
4
25.0
3.8-10.0
.375
0.5-2.8
.182
0.3-0.5
.500
0.5
4.8
5.3
3.5
0.8
1.3
2.0
1.3
8.3


March
6
29.3
5.3-10.8
.492
1.0-2.7
.375
1.0-1.5
.667
0.5
4.2
4.7
6.3
1.8
1.2
2.5
1.7
12.7

[sasaint]

Was just looking at White's splits because I was curious what the numbers look like since he kind of took that step forward. I think January and March give you some good insight into what we can expect statistically from him going forward. His shooting pct won't be what it was in January, but I think something like 15 - 5 - 5 is more than reasonable for him. His scoring hasn't been as good in March as his fg% has regressed back to what is likely the mean. With that said his playmaking, rebounding, and defensive counting numbers have all improved this month. Small sample size I know, but will be interesting to see if he continues down this path. February wasn't great, but is such a small sample size and him coming off injury that I don't put a lot of stock in it. I think next year he could probably score between 15 - 20 ppg with efficiency similar to march depending on the amount of touches he receives.



January
15
30.9
5.7-9.6
.597
1.1-2.3
.471
2.8-3.7
.750
0.7
3.5
4.2
3.9
0.8
1.1
2.9
1.6
15.3


February
4
25.0
3.8-10.0
.375
0.5-2.8
.182
0.3-0.5
.500
0.5
4.8
5.3
3.5
0.8
1.3
2.0
1.3
8.3


March
6
29.3
5.3-10.8
.492
1.0-2.7
.375
1.0-1.5
.667
0.5
4.2
4.7
6.3
1.8
1.2
2.5
1.7
12.7




Many thanks. 15 points sounds about right, but I think your projections fail to take into account the expected return of Dijon. I would expect his rebounding numbers to be maybe 3.5, but his assist numbers to be maybe 6.5.

[R. DeMurre]

The idea that Murray was named to the the 2nd all NBA defensive team because of social media and self promotion seems really far fetched. He was #1 amongst PGs in DRPM by a good margin, #2 in steals per 48, and #3 in rebounds per 48. Those are impressive numbers. If anything, it's more likely many of those older sportswriters and broadcasters would've been turned off by his social media, not impressed by it.

[sasaint]

The idea that Murray was named to the the 2nd all NBA defensive team because of social media and self promotion seems really far fetched. He was #1 amongst PGs in DRPM by a good margin, #2 in steals per 48, and #3 in rebounds per 48. Those are impressive numbers. If anything, it's more likely many of those older sportswriters and broadcasters would've been turned off by his social media, not impressed by it.

Murray earned it. Excellent young defender who should only get better.

[r0drig0lac]

The idea that Murray was named to the the 2nd all NBA defensive team because of social media and self promotion seems really far fetched. He was #1 amongst PGs in DRPM by a good margin, #2 in steals per 48, and #3 in rebounds per 48. Those are impressive numbers. If anything, it's more likely many of those older sportswriters and broadcasters would've been turned off by his social media, not impressed by it.

logically that this was not the reason, just the same bs being thrown in spurstalk to create a "rivalry" between white fans and murray fans (unfortunately the crap that was made between Parker and Manu will be made again)

[DAF86]

Think he's trying to say. Why does it matter?

He actually said Murray > White at defense. If it really didn't matter, he wouldn't have even gone there.

[R. DeMurre]

logically that this was not the reason, just the same bs being thrown in spurstalk to create a "rivalry" between white fans and murray fans (unfortunately the crap that was made between Parker and Manu will be made again)


Yeah, it's such an odd impulse that so many fans have, to either set players against each other-- the exact opposite of teamwork!-- or to go off on certain players... I remember a few years ago, Jeff Ayres was one of those targets. There'd be threads by incredibly angry posters here saying how much they HATED Jeff Ayres, how pissed off they were that he'd mishandled a pass in the post in garbage time.

[SpurPadre]

This is essentially White's rookie year, it's a bit silly to call a player who has barely played 1000 minutes inconsistent on offense.

That is going to happen. Overall, his improvement from his first few games this season to now is staggering tbh, same could be said for Jakob.

It goes both ways bruh. On that logic, it's also a bit silly to crown his ass. That's been my point all along. I think Murray should start next season but I now admit that he will have to prove it and earn it by preseason. Their roles are NOT etched in stone.

[GAustex]

It goes both ways bruh. On that logic, it's also a bit silly to crown his ass. That's been my point all along. I think Murray should start next season but I now admit that he will have to prove it and earn it by preseason. Their roles are NOT etched in stone.
If only Murray (DDR also, pipe dream I know) could hit a respectable percentage of spot up 3s
Then you got something

[SpursDynasty85]

He actually said Murray > White at defense. If it really didn't matter, he wouldn't have even gone there.

Maybe. Sorry if I completely side tracked your analysis with him. A lot of White vs Murray debates when I think we should be ecstatic about having both of them and making sure they can play with each other. If you do not mind me putting my 2 cents in, Murray is the better off ball defender and rebounder whole White is the better on ball defender. Right now White all day long but Murray stilm has more upside on the defensive end while I thin White has more upaide on the offensive end.

[cd021]

It goes both ways bruh. On that logic, it's also a bit silly to crown his ass. That's been my point all along. I think Murray should start next season but I now admit that he will have to prove it and earn it by preseason. Their roles are NOT etched in stone.

He's played well at the toughest position in the NBA, with limited experience. Saying so isn't crowning his ass. I still think Pop gives Murray his starting spot back, also allows for White to have a chance to be the primary playmaker for long stretches off the bench. Think they'll both end up playing around 28 mpg next season so it may be moot to worry about who's starting and who's coming off the bench.