Derozan on the trading block??

[Mr. Body]

Y'all put too much faith into the three young guards. They may be good, but very likely not the consistent good that DeRozan is. I realize this board is filled with wall-banging whackos, but DDR really does have value. I mean, it shows when you think he can be traded for Bradley Beal and in the same breath say he sucks. It can't be both ways.

[gambit1990]

Lmao facts https://twitter.com/HPbasketball/status/1150048385119817728
https://media.giphy.com/media/3FBwwRCNTSa52/giphy.gif

[Roscoe P. Coltrane]

It's simple, do you think a lineup of, for example:

Murray, White, Walker/Carroll/Forbes, Otto Porter, Aldridge couldn't be good enough to win around 48/50 games and make the playoffs? I think it could.

Where would the offense come from?

[gambit1990]

if only the spurs didn't trade for him in the first place... wtf

[DAF86]

Where would the offense come from?

From Aldridge and extended roles to White and Walker. Otto Porter can hit the open 3 too. Murray, supposedly, worked hard on his game too. Then you have guys like Mills, Forbes, Belinelli, and, especially, Gay coming off the bench.

The closing lineup would probably look something like White, Walker, Otto Porter, Gay and Aldridge.

Aldridge is your go to guy on the post.
Gay can do work on the post and or isolation.
White and Walker work the pick and roll.
Porter provides spacing.

On paper, that's a better, much more ballanced lineup than anything involving DeRozan; where he's pretty much useless anytime he doesn't have the ball.

[Payote75]

I think Murray can improve from 8ppg, and White can improve also. they are both very good defensively already. We already lost Davis for nothing, I dont want to lose derozan for nothing either...whats the use of having cap space if we cant sign a tier 1 or 2 free agent...


thats been my point this who.e time. Well said. Even though you guys didn't like my Wiggins thread the point was to deal DD now for front court player(s) so the young guys can have the backcourt and grow with another player. Even if the Spurs had two max slots open in the future they are more than likely not drawing two max player this isn't Los Angeles.
But if the could get a young small forward or young power forward that's locked up for a bit that helps this team stay relevant and maybe win again. So you guys don't like Wiggins fine but I do like him but also would love Gordon with other pieces and I think Chicago could match but Porter would need extension. Otherwise we would be in the same boat.

By by no means do I have DD I actually like him and think he gets a bad rap when he is a good teammate and hustles but now is the time to strike for good value. He walks away then kawitter trade was Poetrl and Keldon .....that wouldn't be cool at all.

[Chinook]

I guess here are the questions Chinook:

1) What is the ceiling of this team as currently constructed in your opinion?

2) When should teams (taking into consideration ceiling/floor) take into consideration future vs now?

I don't think these are the right questions.

1) The team isn't a contender now, but they'd have a chance with the right win-now trade. DeRozan is their best perimeter player until demonstrated otherwise. So they aren't going to get better by not having him.

2) Simply put, the team should have two or three guys they really consider their future core and then the rest should be moveable for the right deal. You can make the same argument for trading White or Poeltl that you could make for trading DeRozan. It's just not likely that all of these players will be Spurs after 2020-2021. The difference is if you can deal some of them for win-now pieces, you can possibly make a title run. Trading for the future almost never works out. Even the best examples (Philly and OKC) have zero titles to speak of. People tend to believe in this idea that you have future title windows based on the age of your core. It's not true. Your only window is what you can open at the moment. Anything can happen in the future to destroy your plans.

[Chinook]

Y'all put too much faith into the three young guards. They may be good, but very likely not the consistent good that DeRozan is. I realize this board is filled with wall-banging whackos, but DDR really does have value. I mean, it shows when you think he can be traded for Bradley Beal and in the same breath say he sucks. It can't be both ways.

I know. But some people here legit think Derrick White is a better player right now than DeRozan, so you can't tell those guys anything. Murray simply isn't good enough to worry about how All-Stars fit with him. DeJounte has an All-Defense, but DeRozan has many more accolades. Considering that White, Walker, Samanic and Johnson all fit just fine in a DeRozan paradigm, I don't see why it's obvious that Murray should win out. Both expire this year, and personally, I believe DJM will make a lot of money on his next contract, so the bargain factor may not be a thing. I've of the mind that the future of the team is open until we see how it all shakes out. There may come a time when trading DeRozan really does make sense, but there may also come a time where trading Murray or White makes sense.

[DPG21920]

I don't think these are the right questions.

1) The team isn't a contender now, but they'd have a chance with the right win-now trade. DeRozan is their best perimeter player until demonstrated otherwise. So they aren't going to get better by not having him.

2) Simply put, the team should have two or three guys they really consider their future core and then the rest should be moveable for the right deal. You can make the same argument for trading White or Poeltl that you could make for trading DeRozan. It's just not likely that all of these players will be Spurs after 2020-2021. The difference is if you can deal some of them for win-now pieces, you can possibly make a title run. Trading for the future almost never works out. Even the best examples (Philly and OKC) have zero titles to speak of. People tend to believe in this idea that you have future title windows based on the age of your core. It's not true. Your only window is what you can open at the moment. Anything can happen in the future to destroy your plans.

Hey, preaching to the choir here..I advocated for SA to do something more aggressive to win now OR go the other direction.

[spurraider21]

It's disingenous as hell. They made the playoffs without Aldridge too if you go back to when he wasn't on the team.
det irony

[Chinook]

det irony

It's not irony to bring up another absurd example of show why simply saying "well it happened with a different roster and in a different league a couple of year ago, so it'd happen again" doesn't work. This roster and that are like night and day.

[ZeusWillJudge]

I am telling people what I have heard.

Understood. I just didn't know if I missed some official statement.



This is correct. There appears to be incentive to trade him since he can walk and SA has no interest in extending him but other than that, they aren’t just dumping him since he’s not toxic or anything and is a good player.


I think that would be exactly right. A value play, but not a jailbreak. The team is almost certainly better with him this coming season, TBH. But if trading him gives them a chance to get a running start on the future with player(s) and/or pick(s)? Trade him if you get a deal, and stand pat if you don't.

I know there are people who hate the guy, and would dump him for nothing. But at this point, now that the free agents are picked over? That would be a dumb move.

[Chinook]

Hey, preaching to the choir here..I advocated for SA to do something more aggressive to win now OR go the other direction.

I think the Spurs should do a win-now trade. I thought they pissed away an opportunity when they didn't deal Gasol's contract last year. They had a real chance to beat Chicago's offer for Porter, and had they had Otto, I think the Spurs would have made it to the WCF. Now, it's harder because they only have Mills and Beli to match deals, and most good players making money in that range are considered very good deals and not on the block. I'd deal one of Murray, White, Poeltl or Johnson for Covington, but anyone else in that range would only get picks from me.

Maybe Gallo for Mills, Beli, Metu and a first? That's a good deal in terms of cap savings, and Gallo does raise the ceiling a bit. That's the best win-now trade I can come up with that doesn't destroy the future like a Paul trade would. Something like Mills and a second for James Johnson cleans up around the edges, but I don't see that making SA contenders or anything.

[DPG21920]

It's not irony to bring up another absurd example of show why simply saying "well it happened with a different roster and in a different league a couple of year ago, so it'd happen again" doesn't work. This roster and that are like night and day.

While it may be night and day, the point of that was that you don’t need a second star like DeRozan to make the playoffs with LMA. As you admitted, the team is reasonably more talented this year knowing White is a solid player and DeRozan along with Poeltl/Carroll/Rudy and Forbes improving.

That’s the point; not that it was identical rosters.

[spurraider21]

It's not irony to bring up another absurd example of show why simply saying "well it happened with a different roster and in a different league a couple of year ago, so it'd happen again" doesn't work. This roster and that are like night and day.
the pre-derozan roster? with kyle anderson, old man manu, and dejounte as the main differences between then and last season. if derozan cant outweigh those guys (when also adding derrick white) and we end up with effectively identical results, he aint worth much to us.

yes the spurs made the playoffs pre-aldridge but with aldridge we had a 67 win season and followed that up with a WCF year even with a duncan retirement. he was still a net positive and it was clear. not the case with derozan

[DPG21920]

I think the Spurs should do a win-now trade. I thought they pissed away an opportunity when they didn't deal Gasol's contract last year. They had a real chance to beat Chicago's offer for Porter, and had they had Otto, I think the Spurs would have made it to the WCF. Now, it's harder because they only have Mills and Beli to match deals, and most good players making money in that range are considered very good deals and not on the block. I'd deal one of Murray, White, Poeltl or Johnson for Covington, but anyone else in that range would only get picks from me.

Maybe Gallo for Mills, Beli, Metu and a first? That's a good deal in terms of cap savings, and Gallo does raise the ceiling a bit. That's the best win-now trade I can come up with that doesn't destroy the future like a Paul trade would. Something like Mills and a second for James Johnson cleans up around the edges, but I don't see that making SA contenders or anything.

That is why I think trading DeRozan becomes prudent. If going for it does not appear really possible and you know you can’t contend unless you make a win now move, then you can still make the playoffs while getting better for the future.

It’s not prioritizing the future more than winning now; it’s that winning now isn’t possible so you have to give yourself a better chance in the future although of course there are no guarantees. Only thing we know for sure is that with the team as currently constructed there is zero chance of winning now.

I am not dealing White/Murray/Lonnie for anyone that isnt already on the cusp of being an all star or more. But picks, Poeltl, Luka, other young guys? All on the table.

[random21]

Derozan should be traded for the right value.
Otto Porter or if you can snag Aaron Gordon, will def improve the teams needs. Walker is almost identical to Derozan, but younger and can hit a 3 pointer. Go with the youth movement or lose Derozan for nothing soon.

[Chinook]

While it may be night and day, the point of that was that you don’t need a second star like DeRozan to make the playoffs with LMA. As you admitted, the team is reasonably more talented this year knowing White is a solid player and DeRozan along with Poeltl/Carroll/Rudy and Forbes improving.

That’s the point; not that it was identical rosters.

I said considering the ceilings, the roster might be more talent. Like yeah, Walker is the most talented guy SA has drafted since Kawhi and then Manu. But he's a zero until proven otherwise. Green is one of the best role-players in NBA history. White might be more versatile, but Danny was a huge reason why Toronto was 17-5 without Kawhi. White doesn't have that type of impact. Also, again, 2017 LMA is better than any player on this team by a lot. 2019 Aldridge shouldn't be expected to compare.

[DPG21920]

I said considering the ceilings, the roster might be more talent. Like yeah, Walker is the most talented guy SA has drafted since Kawhi and then Manu. But he's a zero until proven otherwise. Green is one of the best role-players in NBA history. White might be more versatile, but Danny was a huge reason why Toronto was 17-5 without Kawhi. White doesn't have that type of impact. Also, again, 2017 LMA is better than any player on this team by a lot. 2019 Aldridge shouldn't be expected to compare.

Reasonable - but I have faith knowing Dejounte is good, White is much better than he was then, Lonnie has huge upside, Poeltl works well and Forbes/Carroll are legit good players too.

I’m not saying lock it up, but there is enough data there to suggest playoffs would still be attainable IMO and if we know we aren’t contending without a significant trade and that can’t/won’t happen, the alternative has to be pursued.

[DPG21920]

Ok Chinook:

Would you do: Marvin Williams + Bismack + Bridges + a top 10 protected 1st? Or something in that regard where you don’t land a better player now than DeRozan, but land a player (Williams in this case) who will bolster overall rotation for a playoff push, while getting a young prospect and pick for the future or do you think that is dumb?

[Chinook]

the pre-derozan roster? with kyle anderson, old man manu, and dejounte as the main differences between then and last season. if derozan cant outweigh those guys (when also adding derrick white) and we end up with effectively identical results, he aint worth much to us.

yes the spurs made the playoffs pre-aldridge but with aldridge we had a 67 win season and followed that up with a WCF year even with a duncan retirement. he was still a net positive and it was clear. not the case with derozan

DeRozan was a net-positive. His teams keep making the playoffs. Covington's teams don't (and no, even when he played, the Wolves weren't on a playoff pace).

Also, Aldridge's on-off in his time with the Spurs is 0.1. That's it. Barely positive, despite him being the best or second-best player on the team. Last year, Aldridge was -1.8.

Anyway, yeah, that "terrible" pre-DeRozan roster had the best defense in the league. They didn't just replace those guys with DeRozan. They also swapped in Beli for Green and lost Murray altogether. They were "barely improved" because their supporting cast took a huge step back. That matter should be fixed now, but they'd still have to worry about Aldridge's age and hoping Carroll fits in enough to give the Spurs an elite D. Not remotely guaranteed.

[Hyperhypo]

Guys I keep saying this, DD was there for just a couple months before season began and he got better throughout the year. Give him a chance. I think he's going to be pretty good

[Chinook]

Ok Chinook:

Would you do: Marvin Williams + Bismack + Bridges + a top 10 protected 1st? Or something in that regard where you don’t land a better player now than DeRozan, but land a player (Williams in this case) who will bolster overall rotation for a playoff push, while getting a young prospect and pick for the future or do you think that is dumb?

This trade would need to involve two more Spurs, but I'd probably do it. I would have done Williams, MKG and 12. I may have even done 12 and Batum for DeRozan if PATFO really like Sekou. Anyway Charlotte isn't in win-now mode, so they wouldn't do that trade. They might do those guys and the pick, but I doubt they'd give up bridges. Maybe Bridges and Batum simply because Batum's salary is that doodoo.

Still, it makes the most sense to see how the young guards come out. If they're duds or even just still young guards and not stars, then there isn't a playoff push to be found. If they play well enough to where the team doesn't need DeRozan, then it makes sense to explore trades.

[DPG21920]

This trade would need to involve two more Spurs, but I'd probably do it. I would have done Williams, MKG and 12. I may have even done 12 and Batum for DeRozan if PATFO really like Sekou. Anyway Charlotte isn't in win-now mode, so they wouldn't do that trade. They might do those guys and the pick, but I doubt they'd give up bridges. Maybe Bridges and Batum simply because Batum's salary is that doodoo.

Still, it makes the most sense to see how the young guards come out. If they're duds or even just still young guards and not stars, then there isn't a playoff push to be found. If they play well enough to where the team doesn't need DeRozan, then it makes sense to explore trades.

Yeah was just a general framework to see where your head is at. CHA is never in win now mode; they seem to be in cusp of the playoffs for eternity mode but not wanting a SuperMax on the books mode.

So DeRozan/Beli/flier might get that done while appeasing fans.

But was more of a framework. I am more interested personally in a swap of someone that fits a little better like Otto or Gordon. To me, that is preferable even if you aren’t getting future assets. Get younger with slightly yes talent but more opportunity to fit/grow with younger core.

[r0drig0lac]

I believe that if PATFO intends to trade Demar, this will happen before the start of the season

[Chinook]

I'm just really expecting Murray to make something like $100M/4 after this year. Folks talk about how cap room isn't all it's cracked up to be, but they'll need space just to keep more than two of these guys together. Imagine paying $24 Million to Murray, $9 Million to Poeltl, $20 Million to White and so on. DeRozan for two years and then nothing really makes a lot of sense given the transition the roster is going for. The team didn't sign all these two-years deals for nothing.

[DPG21920]

Ok, another framework type deal to test your threshold/mindset Chinook:

DET Gives: Sekou + 1st + Reggie Jackson + Galloway
DET Gets: DeRozan + 2nd

CHA Gives: Batum + 1st
CHA Gets: Beli + Reggie + Galloway

SA Gives: DeRozan + Beli + 2nd
SA Gets: Sekou + Batum + 2 1sts

Yay or Nay (and yes I am aware Sekou can’t be moved until DEC)

[gambit1990]

looking forward to OP's third thread about another player possibly getting traded.

[DAF86]

I'm just really expecting Murray to make something like $100M/4 after this year. Folks talk about how cap room isn't all it's cracked up to be, but they'll need space just to keep more than two of these guys together. Imagine paying $24 Million to Murray, $9 Million to Poeltl, $20 Million to White and so on. DeRozan for two years and then nothing really makes a lot of sense given the transition the roster is going for. The team didn't sign all these two-years deals for nothing.

lol what?! You expect Murray to make 25 millions per year? :lol

I hope that's the case, tbh. It would mean he became an all-star. :lol

[Ice009]

I wonder WTF is wrong with people so much nowadays...

The Spurs aren't trading DeRozan. You don't have to move everyone just because they are (or rather might be) expiring. You can let guys go or keep your options open. At what point do you no longer care if a guy walks? They didn't "get something" for Anderson or Parker. There's a very good chance they don't even try to "get something" for Aldridge. Guys can walk for nothing. It's okay. The whole point of DeRozan was to bridge the previous and future eras. He's doing that job well. He wasn't brought in to be a mainstay for a decade. He can play out this year and potentially next, and then the two sides can part ways feeling like they both got what they wanted.

When is the opt out on Demar's contract? Is it after this upcoming season? If so, why wouldn't he opt out after not getting an extension? I assume he would as this free agent class is weak and it might be the best chance he gets to maximize his dollars on his next contract. I doubt he stays here for two years if the opt out is after this upcoming season.

I agree what you said about the other stuff, though, just not sure that he doesn't opt out after this upcoming season if that is when his opt out is.

[DPG21920]

When is the opt out on Demar's contract? Is it after this upcoming season? If so, why wouldn't he opt out after not getting an extension? I assume he would as this free agent class is weak and it might be the best chance he gets to maximize his dollars on his next contract. I doubt he stays here for two years if the opt out is after this upcoming season.

I agree what you said about the other stuff, though, just not sure that he doesn't opt out after this upcoming season if that is when his opt out is.

It’s next season; So DeRozan is under contract this 19/20 season, then has a player option in what would be the last year of his deal in 20/21

[Nathan89]

Late first round pick with no shot getting 100mil sounds like something the Spurs would do tbh.

[Gordy58]

A DeMar for Otto Porter Jr. Swap makes sense for both teams.... Bulls would receive a player that can definitely get them in the playoffs next season. The spurs get a young forward in his prime that they desperately need. Can also shoot the three. I’d love Otto in a spurs uniform.... but you’d have to bet on one of Derrick, Dejounte, or Lonnie making a HUGE stride next season.

[Roscoe P. Coltrane]

From Aldridge and extended roles to White and Walker. Otto Porter can hit the open 3 too. Murray, supposedly, worked hard on his game too. Then you have guys like Mills, Forbes, Belinelli, and, especially, Gay coming off the bench.

The closing lineup would probably look something like White, Walker, Otto Porter, Gay and Aldridge.



Aldridge is your go to guy on the post.
Gay can do work on the post and or isolation.
White and Walker work the pick and roll.
Porter provides spacing.

On paper, that's a better, much more ballanced lineup than anything involving DeRozan; where he's pretty much useless anytime he doesn't have the ball.I don't even care for DeRozan but your arguments about him are so ridiculous I feel as if I have to defend him.

Aldridge is going to start taking a dip in production and minutes and if he were to get injured and miss some games the offense would definitely suck. He's not going to be able keep playing at the same level much longer and that's why I would like to see the Spurs make a move and add a player to what we already have and try to win now and if we don't win then you let him walk.

Gay like Aldridge will have a minutes reduction and who knows how many games he'll play in next season. That achilles injury is going to start having affects on his game with his age and might be the the reason why he played so horrible in the playoffs.

I like Murray but he hasn't shown that he's anything more than a good defensive point guard. Supposedly working on offensive game doesn't equal NBA scoring.

White is another player I like and I agree he should have a extended role based on what he did at the NBA level last season. Still need to see more of him, sample size is still small. He would definitely have to average same amount or more minutes as Aldridge did last season because he would be the only player on the team capable of passing.

Forbes still needs to show he can score consistently, Don't see him getting a whole lot better.

The fact that you added in Mills and Beli is a joke.

Where did Walker get this top notch pick n roll game? All I've seen him do is run down court and chunk shots. 4 freaking ass. In the summer league and shot 30% from 3 Just because you think he's going to be good don't mean he is. Just like Bertans being in the starting line up going to make the spurs a much better team?

As for Porter, trading DeRozan for him ain't going to make the Spurs better than what they already are. Now if you add someone like him to what we already have it could make a big difference.

[ZeusWillJudge]

SA Gets: Sekou + Batum + 2 1sts


I'm not really a fan of Sekou Smith, and I don't know why the Spurs would want their own pet sportswriter. :D

I'm not a believer in Sekou Doumbouya either. Batum +2 firsts is pretty tempting, and Project Doumbouya is a little bonus. The Spurs get better defensively and eliminate some of the logjam for the young guys. Batum has the same contract - this year plus a player option next year. But the two picks are long-term value.

I didn't keep up with Charlotte or Batum last season. He played good minutes, but his Per 36 numbers went to hell. His 3P% was way up, but he shot them about half as often. I'd do that deal, but I do wonder what happened to his offense last season.



I'm just really expecting Murray to make something like $100M/4 after this year.

You're planning on him having one hell of a season. For the Spurs' sake, I hope you're right. 4/$100M would pretty much put him up on the first page of league salaries. If he's getting that kind of recognition by the end of the season, the Spurs will be in the top half of the West playoff bracket.

If the whole league perceived him as a $25M/yr player, he would make one hell of a trade piece. DeRozan + The $100 Million Man ought to be enough to get an All Star at the deadline. DeRozan + Murray for Devin Booker? (Not an AS yet, I know.)

[DAF86]

I don't even care for DeRozan but your arguments about him are so ridiculous I feel as if I have to defend him.

Aldridge is going to start taking a dip in production and minutes and if he were to get injured and miss some games the offense would definitely suck. He's not going to be able keep playing at the same level much longer and that's why I would like to see the Spurs make a move and add a player to what we already have and try to win now and if we don't win then you let him walk.

Gay like Aldridge will have a minutes reduction and who knows how many games he'll play in next season. That achilles injury is going to start having affects on his game with his age and might be the the reason why he played so horrible in the playoffs.

I like Murray but he hasn't shown that he's anything more than a good defensive point guard. Supposedly working on offensive game doesn't equal NBA scoring.

White is another player I like and I agree he should have a extended role based on what he did at the NBA level last season. Still need to see more of him, sample size is still small. He would definitely have to average same amount or more minutes as Aldridge did last season because he would be the only player on the team capable of passing.

Forbes still needs to show he can score consistently, Don't see him getting a whole lot better.

The fact that you added in Mills and Beli is a joke.

Where did Walker get this top notch pick n roll game? All I've seen him do is run down court and chunk shots. 4 freaking ass. In the summer league and shot 30% from 3 Just because you think he's going to be good don't mean he is. Just like Bertans being in the starting line up going to make the spurs a much better team?

As for Porter, trading DeRozan for him ain't going to make the Spurs better than what they already are. Now if you add someone like him to what we already have it could make a big difference.

Way too long of a response, and I'm already getting bored of the topic.

At the end of the day, it comes down to how each one sees DeRozan. To me DeRozan is an extremely flawed player that really doesn't move the needle much, if at all. There are years and years of data to support this point. So I think that trading him for a 3 and D player and letting the young guys take a step forward wouldn't hurt or competitiveness one bit. With the added bonus that said trade would also provide us with building blocks for the future. That's why I think it should be a no brainer to trade DeRozan if such a trade presents itself.

You apparently don't think that way. It's cool, I'm not going to change your mind. One thing is for sure, though, if Aldridge and Gay start declining, we are fucked either way, because DeRozan isn't the kind of player that could make up for such a drop of production.

[itzsoweezee]

Is DeRozan going to pressure the front office to finally do something sensible and trade his ass? Once again, they waited too long to pull the trigger. These dudes never learn

[TimDunkem]

DeRozan will never win a title. His game doesn't work in the modern NBA. He needs to go unless contending isn't the goal.

[Ice009]

A DeMar for Otto Porter Jr. Swap makes sense for both teams.... Bulls would receive a player that can definitely get them in the playoffs next season. The spurs get a young forward in his prime that they desperately need. Can also shoot the three. I’d love Otto in a spurs uniform.... but you’d have to bet on one of Derrick, Dejounte, or Lonnie making a HUGE stride next season.

Someone once said that the difference between Otto Porter Jr. and Kawhi is that Kawhi was drafted by the Spurs. I can't remember who said it or where I read that, but if that person is somewhat correct (the ship has probably sailed for him to ever be as good as Kawhi now), I'd like to see what the Spurs can do with him.

Thanks for answering the opt. out question DPG. Do you think Demar opts out after next season if he isn't traded?

[ZeusWillJudge]

Do you think Demar opts out after next season if he isn't traded?


By the end of the season DeRozan showed signs of playing more and better defense than we'd seen from him before. If he continues with that, and if he can keep his on-court emotions from hurting the team, he'll be sought after - but he'll still be a guy in the New NBA who can't shoot the 3 for shit. If he doesn't, I don't think other teams will be lining up to pay him more than his current contract. Personally, I'd put it at about 85% likely that he opts in to that option year. Unless he gets his feelings hurt that the Spurs aren't extending him, I think he's here two more years.

BTW - nobody much has commented on the fact that his Points and FTA's were down quite a bit, but he put up more AST's and RB's than he ever has in his career. That's Spurs ball having an effect on him. I still have some hope that he may continue the transition this season and be worth keeping (at the right price).

[vander]

I think the Spurs need to take on a bad contract for DDR and try to get 2 first rounders.
DDR probably won't stay in SA anyways and Spurs aren't going to land any big free agents next summer, so just use up the cap space and get some picks.

[phxspurfan]

If Spurs go full youth movement I won't be upset. Get a bunch of picks. But sucks that I just bought that DeRozan jersey beginning of last season.

[phxspurfan]

Ok, another framework type deal to test your threshold/mindset Chinook:

DET Gives: Sekou + 1st + Reggie Jackson + Galloway
DET Gets: DeRozan + 2nd

CHA Gives: Batum + 1st
CHA Gets: Beli + Reggie + Galloway

SA Gives: DeRozan + Beli + 2nd
SA Gets: Sekou + Batum + 2 1sts

Yay or Nay (and yes I am aware Sekou can’t be moved until DEC)

What a terrible trade for us

[Ignazzz]

Guys You make me smile;)

DDR for Siakam???
one year ago: DDR had higher value and same time Siakam lower then today and Pop had no chance to do it.
How can You propose Siakam DDR today ???

DDR vs Dipo and Sabonis ( together? Bravo!)
indiana never ever make a Trade Dipo plus bad filler for DDR or Sabonis plus bad contract for DDR and Ur proposal is adding both assets
no understanding for Indiana’s perspective

[illusioNtEk]

Can we throw DDR and a pick for Bradley Beal??

[Hyperhypo]

DD's Stats first year as a Spur:


YEAR
TEAM
GP
GS
MIN
PTS
FGM
FGA
FG%
3PM
3PA
3P%
FTM
FTA
FT%
OREB
DREB
REB
AST
STL
BLK
TOV
PF
+/-


2018
SAS
77
77
2688
1635
631
1313
48.1
7
45
15.6
366
441
83
54
408
462
475
86
36
199
177
10


With a PER of 19.6

I know stats aren't everything but he is still legit. He is smart and willing to get better. I believe he will be better. Heck, the guy wanted to stay in Toronto because he has loyalty, that's not something these stars have these days. Am I missing something here? I like his game and his willingness to get better after a full year with Pop.
Remember, old habits die hard. A lot of you guys are saying, give Luka time and Pop will make him better. Why not use that same logic with this guy?

[FireMicoHalili]

DD's Stats first year as a Spur:


YEAR
TEAM
GP
GS
MIN
PTS
FGM
FGA
FG%
3PM
3PA
3P%
FTM
FTA
FT%
OREB
DREB
REB
AST
STL
BLK
TOV
PF
+/-


2018
SAS
77
77
2688
1635
631
1313
48.1
7
45
15.6
366
441
83
54
408
462
475
86
36
199
177
10


With a PER of 19.6

I know stats aren't everything but he is still legit. He is smart and willing to get better. I believe he will be better. Heck, the guy wanted to stay in Toronto because he has loyalty, that's not something these stars have these days. Am I missing something here? I like his game and his willingness to get better after a full year with Pop.
Remember, old habits die hard. A lot of you guys are saying, give Luka time and Pop will make him better. Why not use that same logic with this guy?
if you're using the cliche 'old habits die hard', I give you 'You can't teach an old dog new tricks'.

[monty4329]

I'd rather have a proven than a maybe. Spurs already have to many maybes. Last time we seen Murray he was playing 20 minutes a game and had no offense, Walker hasn't shown anything other than he can chunk shots in the summer league. Doubtful Forbes gets whole lot better.

Agree, let's get Beal -a proven.

[monty4329]

DD's Stats first year as a Spur:


YEAR
TEAM
GP
GS
MIN
PTS
FGM
FGA
FG%
3PM
3PA
3P%
FTM
FTA
FT%
OREB
DREB
REB
AST
STL
BLK
TOV
PF
+/-


2018
SAS
77
77
2688
1635
631
1313
48.1
7
45
15.6
366
441
83
54
408
462
475
86
36
199
177
10


With a PER of 19.6

I know stats aren't everything but he is still legit. He is smart and willing to get better. I believe he will be better. Heck, the guy wanted to stay in Toronto because he has loyalty, that's not something these stars have these days. Am I missing something here? I like his game and his willingness to get better after a full year with Pop.
Remember, old habits die hard. A lot of you guys are saying, give Luka time and Pop will make him better. Why not use that same logic with this guy?

Show me the stats for piss poor attitude, for turnover on the last possession, for long fadeaways with zero chance of hitting, for his defender double covering LMA with zero risk of an open 3pt, etc etc....The guy is a net negative and costed the Spurs several games last season.

[YoungbuckMurray]

How about demar + belli + 2 1st round picks for porter and markanen

[szkorhetz]

How about demar + belli + 2 1st round picks for porter and markanen
Markanen is untouchable.

[RC_Drunkford]

Even if Walker looks like Donovan Mitchell this season and can put up 20 points every game I'd keep DeRozan. All this team needs is a starting caliber 3-and-D SF to be a top team in the west

[baseline bum]

These trades are ridiculous, DeRozan is a top 15 player in the league.

Can you name the (at least) ten guys on this list that DeRozan is better than?

Kawhi Leonard
Steph Curry
Giannis Antekutoumpo
Anthony Davis
Paul George
Damian Lillard
James Harden
Russell Westbrook
Nikola Jokic
Klay Thompson
Kyrie Irving
Joel Embiid
Pascal Siakam
Jimmy Butler
Ben Simmons
Lamarcus Aldridge
Victor Oladipo
Bradley Beal
Kemba Walker
Luka Doncic
Blake Griffin
Mike Conley
CJ McCollum
Donovan Mitchell

[baseline bum]

Even if Walker looks like Donovan Mitchell this season and can put up 20 points every game I'd keep DeRozan. All this team needs is a starting caliber 3-and-D SF to be a top team in the west

Not sure I get it. So why keep the no3-and-noD starting SF?

[tbdog]

Bulter, Mitchell, McCollum, Doncic, Oladipo,

That's about it.

[RC_Drunkford]

Bulter, Mitchell, McCollum, Doncic, Oladipo,

That's about it.

all of them are better than DeRozan

[RC_Drunkford]

Not sure I get it. So why keep the no3-and-D SF

depth that's why. Spurs have an advantage against any team in the West with a 2 guard pairing as their go-to guys. That includes Warriors, Blazers, Jazz, Rockets. White and Murray can lock any guard pairing down. Now the LA teams have forwards so Spurs would need another SF to throw at Kawhi, PG, LeGM.
But the main weakness of those LA teams is depth. If you ask me there's a good chance that Walker can be the same offensive threat that DeRozan is by the end of the season. But why trade one when you could have both? That would give every team with a bad bench hell of a problem. The Spurs should bet on depth and internal improvement. This could be a deep and very balanced team kind of like in 2014

[Chinook]

lol what?! You expect Murray to make 25 millions per year? :lol

I hope that's the case, tbh. It would mean he became an all-star. :lol

No, it really wouldn't. Oubre and Morris were afterthoughts and got $15 Million. Jamaal Murray got $34 Million. $25 Million is just the price of doing business for good players coming off rookie deals.

[exstatic]

They would never have traded FOR him had they thought that. PATFO isn't stupid. They knew who DMDR was when they made the team. Teams tried to trade for him back then, and they said no. If their plan was to run with their young guys, DeRozan would already be gone.

Flawed premise. You’re assuming some sort of steady state with both DeRozan, and the youngsters. The latter are much more developed and ready to step forward than they were last year.

It’s always been my thought that DD and LMA were just a bridge to the future, a way to stay a winning, playoff team while developing the new core.

I also think that any return from a potential trade of DD should be short term. We now have forwards in the pipeline, KJ and Luka, but they’ll need a year in Austin. OPJ would be perfect. He defends and shoots the three ball, and will almost certainly opt out next summer, so he won’t get in the way of your development pipeline.

[RC_Drunkford]

https://twitter.com/KhrisJohnsonNBA/status/1150878989457723392

didn't somebody here say Spurs inquired about Fournier? I could see something like DeRozan + Belinelli for Gordon + Fournier. Wouldn't want anything the Pistons got.
A trade with the Bulls would have to involve either Porter or LaVine (doubt that).

[FutureMan]

How about something like:

TOR: DeRozan, Noel, Spurs 2nd
OKC: Ibaka, Belinelli, Toronto 1st
SAS: Gallinari, OG Anunoby, Clippers 1st

[szkorhetz]

How about something like:

TOR: DeRozan, Noel, Spurs 2nd
OKC: Ibaka, Belinelli, Toronto 1st
SAS: Gallinari, OG Anunoby, Clippers 1st
OKC says no, but otherwise pretty solid for Spurs and Tor.

[cd021]

How about something like:

TOR: DeRozan, Noel, Spurs 2nd
OKC: Ibaka, Belinelli, Toronto 1st
SAS: Gallinari, OG Anunoby, Clippers 1st

Raps give up another 1st and OG to take DDR back? OKC gives us a first for some reason. Don't think that trade makes sense.

[cd021]

OKC says no, but otherwise pretty solid for Spurs and Tor.

Why not Ibaka and a 1st for DDR? That would be a simpler trade.

[GusT15]

Why not Ibaka and a 1st for DDR? That would be a simpler trade.

Straight to the Spurs? We miss the playoffs with that.

[Prime BEEF]

At the end of the day, it comes down to how each one sees DeRozan. To me DeRozan is an extremely flawed player that really doesn't move the needle much, if at all. There are years and years of data to support this point. So I think that trading him for a 3 and D player and letting the young guys take a step forward wouldn't hurt or competitiveness one bit. With the added bonus that said trade would also provide us with building blocks for the future. That's why I think it should be a no brainer to trade DeRozan if such a trade presents itself.

yes exactly this

[mo7888]

Why not Ibaka and a 1st for DDR? That would be a simpler trade.

Not nearly enough for DDR

[Prime BEEF]

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y4cyo385

Bulls get: DeRozan, Augustine
Magic get: Bulls 1st, Spurs 1st, Dunn, Mills, Marco
Spurs get: Otto, Gordon

starting 5:
White
Murray
Otto
Gordon
Aldridge

[Dex]

Incoming cryptic betrayal IG from DeMar....

[exstatic]

https://twitter.com/KhrisJohnsonNBA/status/1150878989457723392

didn't somebody here say Spurs inquired about Fournier? I could see something like DeRozan + Belinelli for Gordon + Fournier. Wouldn't want anything the Pistons got.
A trade with the Bulls would have to involve either Porter or LaVine (doubt that).

OPJ. Perfect fit.

[Mugen]

If you think that 2 out of 3 of Dejounte, White, or Lonnie has a chance at being above average to All-Star level, there are very few players in the league that are a worse fit next to them than Demar Derozan tbh.

[szkorhetz]

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y4cyo385

Bulls get: DeRozan, Augustine
Magic get: Bulls 1st, Spurs 1st, Dunn, Mills, Marco
Spurs get: Otto, Gordon

starting 5:
White
Murray
Otto
Gordon
Aldridge
Just.
Stop.

[Collins21]

I don't why this is even being talked about. The Tweet stated that teams called the Spurs inquiring about DeRozan that doesn't mean he's getting traded in fact it means quite the opposite. I f the Spurs wanted to trade DeRozan they would have done it during free agency or during the draft not in middle of the summer. They only traded Kawhi in mid July because he wanted out and they had no choice. I'm not sure that if there wasn't rift between Kawhi and the Spurs that they would have traded as opposed to letting his contact expire.

[Prime BEEF]

Just.
Stop.
Nah. Things are fun right now with speculation and false hope. Things will get really boring after the season starts and the spurs haven’t traded DeRozan. And everyone realizes the spurs will be a 7-9 seed. But that hasn’t happened yet so hope people propose a shit ton of trades and have fun

[duncan2k5]

Bulter, Mitchell, McCollum, Doncic, Oladipo,

That's about it.

False...

[John B]

I don't why this is even being talked about. The Tweet stated that teams called the Spurs inquiring about DeRozan that doesn't mean he's getting traded in fact it means quite the opposite. I f the Spurs wanted to trade DeRozan they would have done it during free agency or during the draft not in middle of the summer. They only traded Kawhi in mid July because he wanted out and they had no choice. I'm not sure that if there wasn't rift between Kawhi and the Spurs that they would have traded as opposed to letting his contact expire.
If there’s smoke, there’s a fire. It’s either coming from Demar’s representation or from Spurs that Demar wants to be traded. That’s why teams are inquiring. It’s possible that we struck out on Morris, Spurs needed a better fit. Personally unless Demar has improved on his 3’s, he’s a clog in the offensive flow. We need a 3 and D in that SF position. The West is open imo, and Spurs is a very good 3 and D, and maybe a backup big C, away from serious contention. PATFO has responsibility to explore every opportunities.

[szkorhetz]

If there’s smoke, there’s a fire. It’s either coming from Demar’s representation or from Spurs that Demar wants to be traded. That’s why teams are inquiring. It’s possible that we struck out on Morris, Spurs needed a better fit. Personally unless Demar has improved on his 3’s, he’s a clog in the offensive flow. We need a 3 and D in that SF position. The West is open imo, and Spurs is a very good 3 and D, and maybe a backup big C, away from serious contention. PATFO has responsibility to explore every opportunities.
The West is wide open, I agree with that.

But I really can't see any team who could give us value in the SF position as any team interested in DDR must think they are contenders and not a single contending team has two 3 and D players.
Covington is the closest I can think of, but getting DDR makes zero sense for the Wolves.

Would any of you trade DDR for Hayward?

[mo7888]

If there’s smoke, there’s a fire. It’s either coming from Demar’s representation or from Spurs that Demar wants to be traded. That’s why teams are inquiring. It’s possible that we struck out on Morris, Spurs needed a better fit. Personally unless Demar has improved on his 3’s, he’s a clog in the offensive flow. We need a 3 and D in that SF position. The West is open imo, and Spurs is a very good 3 and D, and maybe a backup big C, away from serious contention. PATFO has responsibility to explore every opportunities.

I agree that if there are leaks then somebody wants the story out there...it could be DDR or the spurs but, you cant discount that the leaks could be from other teams or agencies of other players who are reaching out for their own motivations.

[mo7888]

The West is wide open, I agree with that.

But I really can't see any team who could give us value in the SF position as any team interested in DDR must think they are contenders and not a single contending team has two 3 and D players.
Covington is the closest I can think of, but getting DDR makes zero sense for the Wolves.

Would any of you trade DDR for Hayward?

I think Hayward is a better fit but, I wouldn't do that unless boston attached something else.

[cd021]

Otto Porter and a protected 1st for DeRozan and I'd fly to San Antonio and drive DDR to the airport tbh.

[ThaBigFundamental21]

A trade won't happen. We'll have a 20 page thread where everyone is excited for nothing. Then the Spurs will trot Derozan out on the court only to watch him continue to be a career net negative.

[Bellboy]

Magic - Derozan

Spurs - Fournier, Bamba

Or if a little nudge is needed

Magic - Derozan, Spurs 2020 1st

Spurs - Fournier, Bamba, Magic 2021 2nd, Magic 2022 2nd

[DPG21920]

What a terrible trade for us

Explain

[John B]

The West is wide open, I agree with that.

But I really can't see any team who could give us value in the SF position as any team interested in DDR must think they are contenders and not a single contending team has two 3 and D players.
Covington is the closest I can think of, but getting DDR makes zero sense for the Wolves.

Would any of you trade DDR for Hayward?
Yes if the numbers would fit. Hayward is long, agile who can hit big time. He fits much better in the Spurs system than DDR imo

[SpursDynasty85]

TP was one of the worst players in the NBA at that point.

DeRozan didn't have Murray, but he had White: a better player that fit DeRozan's game better too.

If you go player by player it's pretty much imposible to come up with the conclusion that the 2018 roster was better than the 2019 one.


Look at Derozan's help. He had far less. Not to mention White was injured had to play his way back in and go back to the bench because of the injury. Danny Green was also there instead of Belinelli (pretty big difference there). And the biggest one is Manu. Give me Manu over the Mill, Belli, Bertans, White, and Forbes Derozan got. TP and Manu leading a Spurs system in the locker room and on the bench is still very valuable.

Anyway. You're right its up in the air a bit on trading Derozan but give him some 3 and D players around him and he will take your team to the playoffs and win a round or two ala Toronto. Give him a new Van Fleet, improved Siakim and Gasol he couldve definitely done damage on the Raptors team. Structure wise it is an odd fit for Derozan on the Spurs but Derozan has a lot of great tools a team can work with.

[lmbebo]

I think these teams are poking us to see if DDR is available since no talk of extension.

[SpurSpike]

I think these teams are poking us to see if DDR is available since no talk of extension.

I agree. Don't think the Spurs are actively shopping DDR, just answering the phone.

[John B]

I agree. Don't think the Spurs are actively shopping DDR, just answering the phone.
Agree. But the PATFO neither denies the rumor. But if there are opportunities out there, they should explore and not stand pat. Again because the West is wide open, Pop/LMA/Gay not getting any younger, fix lineup post Kawhi debacle, Demar contract year, etc.

[pad300]

Man, I can see a lot of people in this thread being very disappointed if the Spurs re-sign (or come to an extension) with Derozan... I suspect the Spurs are taking calls, but not making them (ie listening to offers, but not actively trying to trade him). The Spurs will let him play his way to FA, unless they get a proposal that they like. In FA, I could see them coming to a deal with Derozan if he doesn't get a big offer, especially if he continues to look more comfortable in the Spurs system. Just last year, as Zeus mentioned, he looked better than he ever did in TO : more D, more/smarter passing ... if he continues to improve...

[TimDunkem]

He still can't shoot.

[BackHome]

I am OK with listening to trades but I am not getting screwed cause DRozz is a very good player and he does have name recognition. So teams like Detroit, Orlando, and Bulls have been stuck in purgatory for years they need to create a buzz to sale tickets and sale merchandise so I think a trade is possible.

Also I am not giving up White, Walker, and Murray if you need another name I would throw in Nikola as he does still have value. Either way I think trading DEROZZ would be in the best interest for him and the Spurs just need the right assets in return.

[Atl Spur]

Wiggins & Covington����

[Dennis the Menace]

Fournier & Gordon/Bamba

[tesseractive]

Otto Porter and a protected 1st for DeRozan and I'd fly to San Antonio and drive DDR to the airport tbh.

[Dennis the Menace]

For the most part we can all agree Otto Porter Jr would be the best realistic swap for Derozan right? Talking from a starting 5 fit & scheme

[exstatic]

Wiggins & Covington����

Wiggins is horrible. His contract is probably in the worst 5 in the NBA. He's empty calories, NBA junk food.

[exstatic]

Otto Porter and a protected 1st for DeRozan and I'd fly to San Antonio and drive DDR to the airport tbh.

Yup. He's a far better fit, and still a short term asset like DD, since he will likely opt out next summer. He's the forward bridge we need while KJ and Luka play a year in Austin.

[John B]

He knows his flaws in the modern NBA, which is obviously outside shooting particularly the 3. If he didn’t fix his flaw, then PATFO has to explore while his value is high. I just don’t want for PATFO to stand pat because it’s “the right thing for Demar.” That’s when Spurs get screwed with Uncle Dennis, Paul Rich/Morris, Pau/Mills contracts. I know Spurs have long history of “doing what’s right.” But boy, for once I like them to be bold and selfish.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Wiggins is horrible. His contract is probably in the worst 5 in the NBA. He's empty calories, NBA junk food.

Yeah, for people who can't stand DDR to advocate for Wiggins, it's a weird motivation because I fail to see what Wiggins brings to the table other than a bad contract. I'd rather have DeRozan.

[SpursDynasty85]

Never thought about how advantageous DD's position is next year with the bump in salary cap and a shortage of top free agents. I wonder if Spurs are working his trade value vs an extension. He and Belli would be a pretty good trade package but other teams would probably want an extension or a promose of a good chance from DD's camp.

[tesseractive]

He knows his flaws in the modern NBA, which is obviously outside shooting particularly the 3. If he didn’t fix his flaw, then PATFO has to explore while his value is high. I just don’t want for PATFO to stand pat because it’s “the right thing for Demar.” That’s when Spurs get screwed with Uncle Dennis, Paul Rich/Morris, Pau/Mills contracts. I know Spurs have long history of “doing what’s right.” But boy, for once I like them to be bold and selfish.
In a hypothetical DeRozan/Porter trade, the story is less about the Spurs giving up on him and more about a big market team betting on adding an All-Star to the mix. I don't think that looks bad for him at all.

[exstatic]

Yeah, for people who can't stand DDR to advocate for Wiggins, it's a weird motivation because I fail to see what Wiggins brings to the table other than a bad contract. I'd rather have DeRozan.

Advanced stats hate him. One of the oldest is PER. It's offensively oriented, so it even hides his horrible defense. League average is 15.0. Wiggins career mark is 14.5. BPM(either/both) hates him. VORP hates him.

[John B]

In a hypothetical DeRozan/Porter trade, the story is less about the Spurs giving up on him and more about a big market team betting on adding an All-Star to the mix. I don't think that looks bad for him at all.
Porter fits Spurs better, while Demar gives them the scoring they need. It’s win/win for both

[FkLA]

Can you name the (at least) ten guys on this list that DeRozan is better than?

Kawhi Leonard
Steph Curry
Giannis Antekutoumpo
Anthony Davis
Paul George
Damian Lillard
James Harden
Russell Westbrook
Nikola Jokic
Klay Thompson
Kyrie Irving
Joel Embiid
Pascal Siakam
Jimmy Butler
Ben Simmons
Lamarcus Aldridge
Victor Oladipo
Bradley Beal
Kemba Walker
Luka Doncic
Blake Griffin
Mike Conley
CJ McCollum
Donovan Mitchell

McCollum is the most overrated player in the league. He's not even a fringe all-star, more like a high end role player with an undeserved reputation of being a star. DeRozan is undoubtedly a better player, imo.

Simmons, Conley, Beal, Klay, and Oladipo are toss-ups. I don't think their ceilings as #1 guys is any higher than DeRozan's when he was in TOR. If Klay played like Game 6 Klay all the time he'd be elite but most of the time he doesn't. But I would take all of them except the PGs on the Spurs over DD due to them being much better fits. Doncic and Mitchell, it's a toss-up whether they're better atm. They'll most likely get there eventually.

I do agree that DD isnt Top 15 though.

[gambit1990]

McCollum is the most overrated player in the league. He's not even a fringe all-star, more like a high end role player with an undeserved reputation of being a star. DeRozan is undoubtedly a better player, imo.

Simmons, Conley, Beal, Klay, and Oladipo are toss-ups. I don't think their ceilings as #1 guys is any higher than DeRozan's when he was in TOR. If Klay played like Game 6 Klay all the time he'd be elite but most of the time he doesn't. But I would take all of them except the PGs on the Spurs over DD due to them being much better fits. Doncic and Mitchell, it's a toss-up whether they're better atm. They'll most likely get there eventually.

I do agree that DD isnt Top 15 though.
a toss up between klay and demar, wtf :lol

also, luka now > ddr

[San Antonio Slayer]

also, luka now > ddr
because of his mom?

[R. DeMurre]

I'm not a DeRozan hater-- I think I see him with some pretty objective clarity. There's no way he's a top 15 player in the NBA. He's playing SF for the Spurs in the 3 & D era: he can't shoot threes, and his D is mediocre at best. Yes, he'll get you points with average efficiency, and he upped his assist & rebound numbers (one thing I admired very much about him last year), but to put him in even the top 30 just doesn't make sense, and especially come playoff time, his defense and lack of a three became major targets for opposing teams.

[duncan2150]

Imo he is a top30-40 player in the league and youd don't trade him just to get rid of him. Without him the spurs would have won something like 35 games, pepole here are really undervaluing him.

21 pts with 6 ass and 6 boards while shooting at 49% 80% ft is not what you have everywhere, ok he is bad at 3pt and so-so on D but he is not that bad.

If the Spurs are sure he will not be here after next year and got a good offer then ok but if not, just play this season with him.

[Noey7448]

Gordon can't play SF but he can guard SF.He checked Nephew as good as anyone in the playoffs.His versatility on defense is important.

Gordon+Okeke+1st

[FkLA]

:lol DeRozan is easily Top 30. I've stated that I'm not a big fan of his, but saying he's not Top 30 a gross exaggeration. He's in the 20-25 range, imo.

[Prime BEEF]

because of his mom?

:lmao:lmao:lmao

[Mr. Body]

It's clown season for the summer, huh?

[phxspurfan]

So much hate for DeRozan in one place :lol he's better than yall make him out to be. This was his first year in The System. Chill and let's see if Pop can teach him some shit.




/ortradehimforAaronGordon

[R. DeMurre]

:lol DeRozan is easily Top 30. I've stated that I'm not a big fan of his, but saying he's not Top 30 a gross exaggeration. He's in the 20-25 range, imo.

Going with advanced stats: He's 134th in RPM, 75th in WINS, 90th in ORPM, 312th in DRPM. Sorry, there's just no way he's a top 30 player.

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/4

[phxspurfan]

Explain

Picks usually don't pan out, they're just lottery tickets. So most likely you'll have just traded DeRozan for someone far inferior.

[phxspurfan]

Going with advanced stats: He's 134th in RPM, 75th in WINS, 90th in ORPM, 312th in DRPM. Sorry, there's just no way he's a top 30 player.

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/4

Your advanced stats....Toronto was a powerhouse in the East for like 3-4 years with DeMar as the #1 (and as an MVP candidate). His sidekick was fucking Kyle Lowry dude. If that isn't performing I don't know what is.

[phxspurfan]

Gordon+Okeke+1st

Now we're talking

[Twisted_Dawg]

So much hate for DeRozan in one place :lol he's better than yall make him out to be. This was his first year in The System. Chill and let's see if Pop can teach him some shit.




/ortradehimforAaronGordon

I think the hate DeRozan gets is from misdirected anger from the initial KL/Uncle Dennis bullshit, followed by how little Pop and RC got for KL in that trade. Like it or not, DeRozan will forever be tied to that trade, compounded by any future successes of KL.

[cjw]

If true, it means 2 things. One they couldn't come to a agreement on a team friendly deal with DDR, which is fine by me since we shouldn't be overpaying for a flawed player. Secondly, I think they are expecting great things from our new big 3 of Murray, White and Walker next season and DDR's game doesn't mesh well with that trio.

Could also swing DDR to a team in a sign and trade after the session and recoup some assets. Or just enjoy the cap space.

[mo7888]

Picks usually don't pan out, they're just lottery tickets. So most likely you'll have just traded DeRozan for someone far inferior.

Picks are currency... you can trade them for other valuable things later. That's like saying money isn't valuable because you can't eat paper... you trade that paper for product.... it's the same with picks..

[SPURt]

Gordon Hayward is gonna end up being the trade and Spurstalk will love it lol

[R. DeMurre]

Your advanced stats....Toronto was a powerhouse in the East for like 3-4 years with DeMar as the #1 (and as an MVP candidate). His sidekick was fucking Kyle Lowry dude. If that isn't performing I don't know what is.

They lost in playoff sweeps 3 out of his last 4 years... that's not a powerhouse. That's a pretty good team with obvious glaring flaws.

[Xx_SpursNation_xX]

Regular season top 30, playoffs top 100

[Prime BEEF]

Gordon+Okeke+1st

This would be a steal for DeRozan. Not sure Orlando would add in the pick though. Would still do this trade without the pick

[Xx_SpursNation_xX]

Whatever it takes spurs, get this done

[tesseractive]

So much hate for DeRozan in one place :lol he's better than yall make him out to be. This was his first year in The System. Chill and let's see if Pop can teach him some shit.




/ortradehimforAaronGordon
I don't have anything against DeMar. He's a quality guy, and I would never trade him for junk. But he's also not the best fit on this team, and if we have the chance to get someone who fits better and leaves more usage for our younger players, I'm down with that.

[Man In Black]

Talent evaluation is a weak point here and everywhere else. Where do people gather their haterade from?
#unreal

Players always improve in Year 2 under Pop so why bail early?

All those people say BEAL will perform in the playoffs? He's been in the league 7 seasons and missed the playoffs 3 times. How can you perform when you don't make it to the playoffs consistently?
Otto Porter? REALLY?

When it comes to DeRozan, he just simply has to attempt a few more 3's to keep opposing defenses from collapsing the space. He doesn't have to go strictly to shooting 3's and attempting layups.
Don't let the 4 Letter influence you. Mid-Range is still a critical component to every good scorer's arsenal. His defense needs work but let's be real. The entire team suffered when Murray, White, and Walker went down early. To rely on Mills, Belinelli, and Forbes is to die a slow death and yet the Spurs under Pop competed. Since those other guys are fully healthy, the load gets re-balanced and now the team defense improves. It helps to add an All-NBA Defensive Team Member and another who got lots of votes for the same team.

DeRozan ain't the issue really. Calling him DeFrozen is really weak as well. Karl Malone, John Stockton, and Charles Barkley are all legendary, they just couldn't get past Jordan. For DeRozan in the East, it was the same thing with LeBron. Now that LBJ is out West, even he no longer has an easy path to a Conference Final. DeRozan is right where he wants to be. Contract be damned. You all keep saying he can bail for elsewhere but the reality is, in today's NBA, who's paying big dollars elsewhere?

[John B]

I think the hate DeRozan gets is from misdirected anger from the initial KL/Uncle Dennis bullshit, followed by how little Pop and RC got for KL in that trade. Like it or not, DeRozan will forever be tied to that trade, compounded by any future successes of KL.
Agreed it’s difficult to replace a top 3 player, but Demar’s inability to perform in pressured situation does not help. Not only that, his game is flawed in today’s NBA. In a regular season back in TOR in the East maybe, but playoffs and especially in the loaded West, his game is flawed.

[venitian navigator]

DDR + Metu for Gordon-Bamba-draft pick (or Okeke) makes sense
DDR is the best player of all them and can be the slasher and secondary play maker they need
Gordon is expendable after they signed Aminu and considering that him and Isaac plays the same role of Gordon
We need a back up c at a not so big price (LMA prefers to play pf, Poeltl could start and next summer is going to be paid) and they just signed Birch that last year played more and better than Bamba
Its true that with this trade we are without a true small forward but, after all, DDR wasn't a real sf and if we plan to play the three young guys, Walker (and Gordon/Carroll)could take his place and minutes ...

[FkLA]

Going with advanced stats: He's 134th in RPM, 75th in WINS, 90th in ORPM, 312th in DRPM. Sorry, there's just no way he's a top 30 player.

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/4

There's no context behind that though. Guys that we all recognize as role players can be really high on those lists because they fit really well into a system or are the missing piece for a team. That doesn't mean that individually they are better than a guy like DeRozan. It's like the Draymond/Aldridge argument...yeah Draymond is probably a better role player than Aldridge is a #1 or #2 but that doesn't fucking mean he should be getting all-star nods over him.

Also, you can't just do that for DeRozan and not everyone else. Theres plenty of guys who are viewed as stars but dont have impressive advanced metrics. Klay is widely considered a great two way star and had a worse DRPM than DeRozan just last season.

[JuneJive]

Talent evaluation is a weak point here and everywhere else. Where do people gather their haterade from?
#unreal

Players always improve in Year 2 under Pop so why bail early?

All those people say BEAL will perform in the playoffs? He's been in the league 7 seasons and missed the playoffs 3 times. How can you perform when you don't make it to the playoffs consistently?
Otto Porter? REALLY?

When it comes to DeRozan, he just simply has to attempt a few more 3's to keep opposing defenses from collapsing the space. He doesn't have to go strictly to shooting 3's and attempting layups.
Don't let the 4 Letter influence you. Mid-Range is still a critical component to every good scorer's arsenal. His defense needs work but let's be real. The entire team suffered when Murray, White, and Walker went down early. To rely on Mills, Belinelli, and Forbes is to die a slow death and yet the Spurs under Pop competed. Since those other guys are fully healthy, the load gets re-balanced and now the team defense improves. It helps to add an All-NBA Defensive Team Member and another who got lots of votes for the same team.

DeRozan ain't the issue really. Calling him DeFrozen is really weak as well. Karl Malone, John Stockton, and Charles Barkley are all legendary, they just couldn't get past Jordan. For DeRozan in the East, it was the same thing with LeBron. Now that LBJ is out West, even he no longer has an easy path to a Conference Final. DeRozan is right where he wants to be. Contract be damned. You all keep saying he can bail for elsewhere but the reality is, in today's NBA, who's paying big dollars elsewhere?

Good job on being objective.

He's got flaws and he's not a great fit with the rest of the players here, but he is undeserving of all the hate he gets.

[San Antonio Slayer]

we need to get a starting small forward in the trade for DDR. I am not ok with Carrol as a starter even if we have Steven Adams in that trade. Small forward is still our weakest position imo.

[MoSpur02]

So much hate for DeRozan in one place :lol he's better than yall make him out to be. This was his first year in The System. Chill and let's see if Pop can teach him some shit.




/ortradehimforAaronGordon

He’s a very good player. He just doesn’t fit in the current Spurs system unless he develops a consistent three point shot. His team defense can improve possibly, but his one on one defense is what it is. So if you can a player who is good and is a better fit for the current Spurs system then why not.

[DAF86]

No, it really wouldn't. Oubre and Morris were afterthoughts and got $15 Million. Jamaal Murray got $34 Million. $25 Million is just the price of doing business for good players coming off rookie deals.

Jamal Murray is an all-star type player, it doesn't matter if he officially hasn't been selected to one, tbh.

Morris got 15 millions on a one year deal after the Knicks had struck out on every relevant free agent.

Oubre is a similar thing, just a two year contract (I don't know if there's a team or player option in the second one) for a team that had salary cap to spare.

Unless Murray becomes a top 2/3 option for the Spurs he's not getting anything close to 100 millions for 4 years. Get real son. :lol

[apalisoc_9]

Id keep derozan. None of the players mentioned in any trade scenario raises the spurs ceiling. Keep him and dont sign him when his contract is up.

[Hyperhypo]

Trade mills, luka, someone else and 2 picks for beal.

[DAF86]

Look at Derozan's help. He had far less. Not to mention White was injured had to play his way back in and go back to the bench because of the injury. Danny Green was also there instead of Belinelli (pretty big difference there). And the biggest one is Manu. Give me Manu over the Mill, Belli, Bertans, White, and Forbes Derozan got. TP and Manu leading a Spurs system in the locker room and on the bench is still very valuable.

Anyway. You're right its up in the air a bit on trading Derozan but give him some 3 and D players around him and he will take your team to the playoffs and win a round or two ala Toronto. Give him a new Van Fleet, improved Siakim and Gasol he couldve definitely done damage on the Raptors team. Structure wise it is an odd fit for Derozan on the Spurs but Derozan has a lot of great tools a team can work with.

In comparisson to whom? :lol

[spurraider21]

with the emergence of white, expected improvements for lonnie/dejounte, we dont need a ball dominant wing like derozan eating 25+ mil while not providing defense or spacing. its not that demar doesnt have talent... its that he isnt really helping us, imo

[Keepin' it real]

Wow! Is the trade done? Who'd we get???

[BackHome]

Morris. Lol

[FkLA]

Jamal Murray is an all-star type player, it doesn't matter if he officially hasn't been selected to one, tbh.

Morris got 15 millions on a one year deal after the Knicks had struck out on every relevant free agent.

Oubre is a similar thing, just a two year contract (I don't know if there's a team or player option in the second one) for a team that had salary cap to spare.

Unless Murray becomes a top 2/3 option for the Spurs he's not getting anything close to 100 millions for 4 years. Get real son. :lol

Jamal Murray sucks. Worst contract in the NBA, imo.

[FkLA]

with the emergence of white, expected improvements for lonnie/dejounte, we dont need a ball dominant wing like derozan eating 25+ mil while not providing defense or spacing. its not that demar doesnt have talent... its that he isnt really helping us, imo

He can still help. His playmaking is underrated, imo.

I probably would trade him for Aaron Gordon straight up though. Prototype combo forward body and still young enough that the Spurs development program could work its magic on him. I doubt Orlando would part ways with him though.

[Mugen]

He can still help. His playmaking is underrated, imo.

I probably would trade him for Aaron Gordon straight up though. Prototype combo forward body and still young enough that the Spurs development program could work its magic on him. I doubt Orlando would part ways with him though.

Orlando has Isaac, Bamba, Vucevic in the frontcourt. They just signed Aminu and drafted Chuma Okeke.

Any intelligent franchise would consider Aaron Gordon expendable but it's the Magic we're talking about.

[DAF86]

Jamal Murray sucks. Worst contract in the NBA, imo.

It doesn't matter if he's overrated or not. The reality is that he's a top 2 offensive option for a team that finished 2nd in the West last season. That's the type of player you need to be to command a 100 millions over 4 years type of contract. Our Murray isn't anything close to that yet, so predicting him to make that kind of money is just plain dumb.

[acoelho1]

It only makes sense to do a trade if it improves our defense and 3pt ability out of the forward spot. I doubt Pop would approve a pick heavy or young player deal in that I'm sure they are in a win now mode. I still say DDR is a bad fit on this team and it appears he's not going to be part of the teams plans in the future so it makes perfect sense to at least explore the trade market for him. Also, this situation qualifies as addition by subtraction and I think we have enough in Murray, White and Walker to address any offensive deficiency we may gain by losing DDR. There was a reason why he could never carry the Raptors over the hump and it's primarily because he came up small in the crucial moments in a game and I saw more of the same last year short of the Raptors game. In fact, last year it was frustrating when Pop put the ball in his hands late in the game instead of White who seems more composed in those moments. Nevertheless, he will be better this year but the fact that he didn't get extended speaks volumes to how the Spurs view him. So, a team like the Pistons makes a whole lot of sense given that his former coach is there.

[TD 21]

:lmao At this thread. It's a microcosm of this place. The intelligent posters all realize it's a no brainer to trade him and that they'd be better off with pieces like Porter, Gordon, etc. because the pieces would fit better and it'd allow the young guards to grow. Meanwhile, the apologists/casuals think he's a legit star, shouldn't be traded for role players and that they'd be better off losing him for nothing in 1-2 years.

I got news for the latter: There's a miniscule chance of them doing better than Porter, Gordon, etc. with the '21 cap space, those types have resale value if need be and you can forget about them being a dumping ground for dead money and piling up picks because that's not how they operate.

[cd021]

Yup. He's a far better fit, and still a short term asset like DD, since he will likely opt out next summer. He's the forward bridge we need while KJ and Luka play a year in Austin.

A Porter Jr. and a protected pick for DDR and Beli would be the ideal incarnation of a trade with Bulls.

They get a "Eastern Conference All- Star" and a good rotation player we get a solid starter in his mid twenties and a potentially very good pick.

[Dr. John R. Brinkley]

I don’t see how you can trade anyone, including Marco, until preseason to see how everyone looks.

[NASpurs]

I don’t see how you can trade anyone, including Marco, until preseason to see how everyone looks.

On the other hand, how would making a midseason trade and integrating new parts work without training camp?

[FutureMan]

Since everyone has taken a liking to Gordon:

ORL: DeRozan & Belinelli
MEM: Fournier, Spurs 2nd (2 if needed), & Orlando 2nd
SAS: Gordon & Iguodala

[TimDunkem]

:lmao At this thread. It's a microcosm of this place. The intelligent posters all realize it's a no brainer to trade him and that they'd be better off with pieces like Porter, Gordon, etc. because the pieces would fit better and it'd allow the young guards to grow. Meanwhile, the apologists/casuals think he's a legit star, shouldn't be traded for role players and that they'd be better off losing him for nothing in 1-2 years.

I got news for the latter: There's a miniscule chance of them doing better than Porter, Gordon, etc. with the '21 cap space, those types have resale value if need be and you can forget about them being a dumping ground for dead money and piling up picks because that's not how they operate.

B..b...b...He started grabbing a few boards and his defense went from being abysmal to just mediocre! He also still can't shoot 3s so he is a perfect fit!

Extend that man, RC!!!

[TimDunkem]

Since everyone has taken a liking to Gordon:

ORL: DeRozan & Belinelli
MEM: Fournier, Spurs 2nd (2 if needed), & Orlando 2nd
SAS: Gordon & Iguodala

2k is fun.

[tbdog]

all of them are better than DeRozan

I disagree completely. Butler was but his defense has dropped down massively. Doncic will be soon.

[FkLA]

Damn, Gordon's game is nice. He'd legit be a superstar by now if he had been drafted by the Spurs instead of that dumbfuck franchise in Orlando, imo.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RS5GomI3k0

[cd98]

Damn, Gordon's game is nice. He'd legit be a superstar by now if he had been drafted by the Spurs instead of that dumbfuck franchise in Orlando, imo.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RS5GomI3k0

Wow, he did totally dominate one of the worst teams in the NBA last year.

[cd98]

Since everyone has taken a liking to Gordon:

ORL: DeRozan & Belinelli
MEM: Fournier, Spurs 2nd (2 if needed), & Orlando 2nd
SAS: Gordon & Iguodala

That's pretty good. The Orlando GM would definitely get fired if he traded Fournier, Gordon, and a 2nd round pick for DeRozen and Belinelli.

[GusT15]

For everyone tempted to google Fournier after all the mentions he's gotten so far,to check up on his age/stats/contract-do not google Fournier.

Friendly warning.

[Chillen]

Only trade DeMar if it makes the Spurs a better team long term. Getting Gordon is good and Spurs should still go after Beal.

[kobyz]

Since everyone has taken a liking to Gordon:

ORL: DeRozan & Belinelli
MEM: Fournier, Spurs 2nd (2 if needed), & Orlando 2nd
SAS: Gordon & Iguodala

go all in:
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y6leoldm

Orl next season:

Patty/Augustine
Bryn/MCW/Bellinelli
DDR/T. Ross/Iwundu
LMA/A. Aminu
Vuce/Birch/Metu

*backcourt of splash brothers, with 3 allstars frontcourt

[exstatic]

I don’t see how you can trade anyone, including Marco, until preseason to see how everyone looks.

The Spurs know how DD looks. They've had him for a year now.

[spurspl]

Tor: derozan, 1st from spurs
Was: mills, belli, forbes, metu, 2x 1st and 2x 2nd from spurs
Sas: beal, marc gasol, og anunoby

http://tradenba.com/trades/r1otqTiWS

[slick'81]

Tor: derozan, 1st from spurs
Was: mills, belli, forbes, metu, 2x 1st and 2x 2nd from spurs
Sas: beal, marc gasol, og anunoby

http://tradenba.com/trades/r1otqTiWS

love the trading metu ideas

[kobyz]

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yxwyqaum
(Spurs throw in Milutinov rights to ORL)

ORL next season:
Augustine/MCW
Fournier/Bryn
DDR/T. Ross
LMA/A. Aminu
Vuce/Milutinov

SAS next season:
Derrick White/Dejounte Murray/Quinndary Weatherspoon
Batum/Keldon Johnson/Lonnie Walker/Iwundu
Gordon/DeMarre Carroll/Okeke
Issac/Rudy Gay/Luka Samanic/Trey Lyles
Jakob Poeltl/Bamba/Metu

[Twisted_Dawg]

Metu is literally a legend in these parts.

[R. DeMurre]

There's no context behind that though. Guys that we all recognize as role players can be really high on those lists because they fit really well into a system or are the missing piece for a team. That doesn't mean that individually they are better than a guy like DeRozan. It's like the Draymond/Aldridge argument...yeah Draymond is probably a better role player than Aldridge is a #1 or #2 but that doesn't fucking mean he should be getting all-star nods over him.

Also, you can't just do that for DeRozan and not everyone else. Theres plenty of guys who are viewed as stars but dont have impressive advanced metrics. Klay is widely considered a great two way star and had a worse DRPM than DeRozan just last season.


The thing is DeRozan doesn't shine in any scenario when it comes to advanced stats. For the entire season, the Spurs scored more points per 100 possessions with him off the floor than on, and held opponents to fewer points per 100 possessions with him off the floor as opposed to on: http://www.82games.com/1819/18SAS7.HTM

His on/off numbers for the playoffs were by far the worst on the team: http://www.82games.com/1819/18SAS7.HTM

And yeah, Demar had a better RPM than Klay last year, but in the previous five, Klay's was better, and over the course of the last 400 games and the playoffs, it's not even close.

I've said it before: I root for DeMar because he's a Spur and I don't dislike him, but he's just not a very effective player in the modern NBA. And there's simply no possible way he's a top 30 player. He'd be much better suited coming off the bench, scoring & defending against bench players... but that won't happen because he makes the salary of a #1 option.

[R. DeMurre]

For everyone tempted to google Fournier after all the mentions he's gotten so far,to check up on his age/stats/contract-do not google Fournier.

Friendly warning.


:lol

[kobyz]

a little fix: http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y6jxprwc

SAS next season:
Dejounte Murray/Lonnie Walker/Quinndary Weatherspoon
Derrick White/Keldon Johnson/Wes Iwundu
Chuma Okeke/Jonathan Isaac/DeMarre Carroll
Aaron Gordon/Rudy Gay/Trey Lyles
Drummond/Jakob Poeltl/Luka Samanic

[gambit1990]

Wow, he did totally dominate one of the worst teams in the NBA last year.
:lol

[CGD]

Chicago is interesting. Would need more that just Otto Porter, but the fit would be nice.

I want nothing from DET. They’d need to give 3 picks for me to take there garbage.

A move for Gordon is interesting. We’d have to take back salary, so maybe they get another asset back too. I do think such a move essentially would put LMA on the clock too.

[Chillen]

Would Spurs really be so nice to give back DeMar to Toronto? Would he really want to be back there after they traded him for a 1 year Kawhi rental? Not seeing the point in trading DeMar back to Toronto for either Spurs or DeMar.

[Leetonidas]

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yxwyqaum
(Spurs throw in Milutinov rights to ORL)

ORL next season:
Augustine/MCW
Fournier/Bryn
DDR/T. Ross
LMA/A. Aminu
Vuce/Milutinov

SAS next season:
Derrick White/Dejounte Murray/Quinndary Weatherspoon
Batum/Keldon Johnson/Lonnie Walker/Iwundu
Gordon/DeMarre Carroll/Okeke
Issac/Rudy Gay/Luka Samanic/Trey Lyles
Jakob Poeltl/Bamba/Metu

:lmao this team would win 35 games

[RC_Drunkford]

Would Spurs really be so nice to give back DeMar to Toronto? Would he really want to be back there after they traded him for a 1 year Kawhi rental? Not seeing the point in trading DeMar back to Toronto for either Spurs or DeMar.

Hell yeah he would. He went to the locker room and hugged everybody right after Kawhi took the ball from him and dunked it to win the game. Raptors just don't have anything I would want except Siakam and his salary doesn't match. Also lol at these retarded trade ideas.

If you want to trade DeRozan for a player that's better than him it's Beal. That's it. Otherwise try to get 2 SFs back and maybe a pick or another young player. So Gordon and Fournier would make sense but I don't think it'll make the team better. Only other SF I would want is Covington and that means you gotta take one of them trash contracts like Dieng back too so it doesn't make much sense salary wise. Being that most SFs were free agents this year you could get better fits at the trade deadline, but makin that type of move midseason is not really how the Spurs operate. And at that point the team might just be really good and on a top 4 seed which then makes it even more unlikely to trade him. I just don't see a lot of ways to improve the team by trading him

[GAustex]

For everyone tempted to google Fournier after all the mentions he's gotten so far,to check up on his age/stats/contract-do not google Fournier

Friendly warning.
I could not help but I wish I did heed your advice

[cutewizard]

Any updates yet?

[FkLA]

I could not help but I wish I did heed your advice

same :depressed

[Prime BEEF]

For everyone tempted to google Fournier after all the mentions he's gotten so far,to check up on his age/stats/contract-do not google Fournier.

Friendly warning.

Geez. What a horrible last name to have. Gross

[FutureMan]

That's pretty good. The Orlando GM would definitely get fired if he traded Fournier, Gordon, and a 2nd round pick for DeRozen and Belinelli.
As a Magic fan as well. Fournier needs to come off the books ASAP. He dropped off BIG time. The GM wouldn’t get fired. MAYBE they would need to throw in that 2nd. As I stated 2 could be had from the Spurs if need be.

Agustin Fultz
DeRozan Ross (former DeRozan teammate)
Isaac Belinelli
Aminu
Vucevic Bamba

Undeniably a better team. Isaac needs more time at the 4 as well and trading Gordon gets you that.

[gambit1990]

Any updates yet?
yeah. latest update is that demar may or may not be on the trading block.

[slick'81]

yeah. latest update is that demar may or may not be on the trading block.


:lol

[Marcus Bryant]

Need an effing trade that leads to title potential not this armchair GM origami construct the most beautiful roster bullshit.

[r0drig0lac]

Hell yeah he would. He went to the locker room and hugged everybody right after Kawhi took the ball from him and dunked it to win the game. Raptors just don't have anything I would want except Siakam and his salary doesn't match. Also lol at these retarded trade ideas.

If you want to trade DeRozan for a player that's better than him it's Beal. That's it. Otherwise try to get 2 SFs back and maybe a pick or another young player. So Gordon and Fournier would make sense but I don't think it'll make the team better. Only other SF I would want is Covington and that means you gotta take one of them trash contracts like Dieng back too so it doesn't make much sense salary wise. Being that most SFs were free agents this year you could get better fits at the trade deadline, but makin that type of move midseason is not really how the Spurs operate. And at that point the team might just be really good and on a top 4 seed which then makes it even more unlikely to trade him. I just don't see a lot of ways to improve the team by trading him

yep.... Porter and Hutchison for Demar + Metu

[FireMicoHalili]

:lmao At this thread. It's a microcosm of this place. The intelligent posters all realize it's a no brainer to trade him and that they'd be better off with pieces like Porter, Gordon, etc. because the pieces would fit better and it'd allow the young guards to grow. Meanwhile, the apologists/casuals think he's a legit star, shouldn't be traded for role players and that they'd be better off losing him for nothing in 1-2 years.

I got news for the latter: There's a miniscule chance of them doing better than Porter, Gordon, etc. with the '21 cap space, those types have resale value if need be and you can forget about them being a dumping ground for dead money and piling up picks because that's not how they operate.

The latter are probably afraid to trade him for nothing since PATFO gave up Leonard for him. After a year of DDR and glossing over his career, he’s (1) not a great fit and (2) is a net negative. His game is nice and his numbers are amazing but he’s the exact definition of an empty calories scorer. I had hoped the Spurs could change him overnight and he’s still the same playoff choker who suddenly loses composure behind the three-point line.

Best case scenario is the Spurs snag a comparable star like Beal, worst case is throwing him away for pieces which at least move the needle in a loaded Western Conference. I’m not sure what the DDR fans here want, the Spurs won’t extend him and he’ll lose value as his contract runs out.

[Chinook]

Jamal Murray is an all-star type player, it doesn't matter if he officially hasn't been selected to one, tbh.

Morris got 15 millions on a one year deal after the Knicks had struck out on every relevant free agent.

Oubre is a similar thing, just a two year contract (I don't know if there's a team or player option in the second one) for a team that had salary cap to spare.

Unless Murray becomes a top 2/3 option for the Spurs he's not getting anything close to 100 millions for 4 years. Get real son. :lol

I find it mind-boggling that people have been living in this new NBA for four seasons and still don't seem to grasp modern contracts. Jamaal Murray is a near-All Star. Sure, maybe. And he's getting the max. If Murray were a near-All Star, he'd also get the max. He wouldn't get $9 Million a year less than the max. That you think a $100M/4 deal is in the same ball-park as a $170M/5 deal is just so weird. It's an obvious step or two down, and a step or two down from a near-All Star is a good player with potential that the franchise likes.

Look at it this way. In 2015, Draymond Green signed an $86M/5 deal with the Warriors. In today's money, that translates to a $108M/4 deal. I just don't know how many different ways I have to go through to show why $100 Million is a likely outcome on a four-year deal. If Murray is anything like people believe he was last year while also being a consistent double-digit scorer, he's going to get a lot of money. He doesn't have to be great to get it. He doesn't even have to be better than Gay. He just has to be good, young and show room to grown, and the Spurs will lock him up.

[Dr. John R. Brinkley]

The Spurs know how DD looks. They've had him for a year now.

I was referring to the young players’ development, not DD’s status. IF the young guys are set for a breakout, then I’m all for trading him.

[DAF86]

I find it mind-boggling that people have been living in this new NBA for four seasons and still don't seem to grasp modern contracts. Jamaal Murray is a near-All Star. Sure, maybe. And he's getting the max. If Murray were a near-All Star, he'd also get the max. He wouldn't get $9 Million a year less than the max. That you think a $100M/4 deal is in the same ball-park as a $170M/5 deal is just so weird. It's an obvious step or two down, and a step or two down from a near-All Star is a good player with potential that the franchise likes.

Look at it this way. In 2015, Draymond Green signed an $86M/5 deal with the Warriors. In today's money, that translates to a $108M/4 deal. I just don't know how many different ways I have to go through to show why $100 Million is a likely outcome on a four-year deal. If Murray is anything like people believe he was last year while also being a consistent double-digit scorer, he's going to get a lot of money. He doesn't have to be great to get it. He doesn't even have to be better than Gay. He just has to be good, young and show room to grown, and the Spurs will lock him up.

Draymond Green is a fucking DPoY all-star. :lol

Sure, if Murray can become a DPoY all-star he would command, not only 100 over 4 years, but probably more. The chances of him becoming that this season aren't very high, though :lol

What kind of stats are you expecting Murray to post to get a 100/4 deal? :lol

[slick'81]

Draymond Green is a fucking DPoY all-star. :lol

Sure, if Murray can become a DPoY all-star he would command, not only 100 over 4 years, but probably more. The chances of him becoming that this season aren't very high, though :lol

What kind of stats are you expecting Murray to post to get a 100/4 deal? :lol

as good as rudy gay apparently

[Chinook]

Draymond Green is a fucking DPoY all-star. :lol

Sure, if Murray can become a DPoY all-star he would command, not only 100 over 4 years, but probably more. The chances of him becoming that this season aren't very high, though :lol

What kind of stats are you expecting Murray to post to get a 100/4 deal? :lol

Green hadn't won DPoY or made the All-Star game when he signed that deal. He would have signed a max deal had he had those accolades back then.

It just doesn't make any sense for you or anyone else to simultaneously believe Murray will be good while also thinking he won't get $100 Million. I could go on and on with examples of decent young players whose contracts would equate to $100M-plus in today's league. Tobias Harris (not his big new deal, but the old one), Otto Porter, Zach Lavine, Derrick Favors (in 2014), Victor Oladipo (before he became good), Vucevic (his old deal, not his new one). You have a really skewed view on how good you have to be to get a deal starting at 19 percent of the cap. It's really not that hard. And this list ignores obviously dubious max deals like Wiggins or Batum and completely warranted deals like Serge Ibaka in 2012. There are other near-misses like Robin Lopez ($97M/4).

[Chinook]

as good as rudy gay apparently

Gay would have gotten that from someone had he been 24 years old rather than almost 33. Nine years ago, a worse Rudy got the equivalent of $123M/4

[MultiTroll]

Greg Pop, Patty Mills and DD
for
Nick Nurse, VanVleet, and Siakam.

Pop could add Pao Gasol to his roster.

[DAF86]

Green hadn't won DPoY or made the All-Star game when he signed that deal. He would have signed a max deal had he had those accolades back then.

It just doesn't make any sense for you or anyone else to simultaneously believe Murray will be good while also thinking he won't get $100 Million. I could go on and on with examples of decent young players whose contracts would equate to $100M-plus in today's league. Tobias Harris (not his big new deal, but the old one), Otto Porter, Zach Lavine, Derrick Favors (in 2014), Victor Oladipo (before he became good), Vucevic (his old deal, not his new one). You have a really skewed view on how good you have to be to get a deal starting at 19 percent of the cap. It's really not that hard. And this list ignores obviously dubious max deals like Wiggins or Batum and completely warranted deals like Serge Ibaka in 2012. There are other near-misses like Robin Lopez ($97M/4).

What are you expecting Murray to average to get a 100/4 deal son? :lol

[Chinook]

What are you expecting Murray to average to get a 100/4 deal son? :lol

I think this conversation has run its course. I've given evidence on top of evidence, and you can't seem to type a post without a laughing emoji. You clearly hadn't read the recent market and thought you had a much stronger argument than you did. No biggie. The proper response should have been, "Oh snap, I didn't realize how often contracts equating to $100M/4 are given out to non-stars. That resets my view on Murray's next deal." Instead, it's just this bullshit.

[DAF86]

I think this conversation has run its course. I've given evidence on top of evidence, and you can't seem to type a post without a laughing emoji. You clearly hadn't read the recent market and thought you had a much stronger argument than you did. No biggie. The proper response should have been, "Oh snap, I didn't realize how often contracts equating to $100M/4 are given out to non-stars. That resets my view on Murray's next deal." Instead, it's just this bullshit.

Danny Green, Marcus Morris and a bunch of other way better players than Murray got nothing close to 100/4? What are you basing your prediction on? You really haven't provided a single good example son. :lol

[slick'81]

Danny Green, Marcus Morris and a bunch of other way better players than Murray got nothing close to 100/4? What are you basing your prediction on? You really haven't provided a single good example son. :lol


Think he realized how stupid it sounds

[Chinook]

Danny Green, Marcus Morris and a bunch of other way better players than Murray got nothing close to 100/4? What are you basing your prediction on? You really haven't provided a single good example son. :lol


Think he realized how stupid it sounds


Danny Green, Marcus Morris and a bunch of other way better players than Murray got nothing close to 100/4? What are you basing your prediction on? You really haven't provided a single good example son. :lol

So if Danny Green is way better than Murray, why the fuck do people keep acting like he matters? I'm not disagreeing that DeJounte is somewhat overrated, but you're falling into the "Murray's not good" camp. Of course, if you don't think Murray is going to be one of the top three or four players one the team, you won't think he's worth big money. But if you do think that, then you should also think he'll get $100M, because that's what such a player costs.

You are trying to shift the goalposts now. Murray doesn't have to be an All-Star to get that contract. That is the point we were debating. None of those guys I listed were stars. They were solid players who were young and thought to have potential. Some of them lived up to the potential, and others didn't. But they're all were where people in general think Murray will be.

It's weird that you're suggesting I'm some Murray lover when multiple posters accuse me of being blinded by irrational hate for the dude.

[cutewizard]

:elephant

[spurs10]

So if Danny Green is way better than Murray, why the fuck do people keep acting like he matters? I'm not disagreeing that DeJounte is somewhat overrated, but you're falling into the "Murray's not good" camp. Of course, if you don't think Murray is going to be one of the top three or four players one the team, you won't think he's worth big money. But if you do think that, then you should also think he'll get $100M, because that's what such a player costs.

You are trying to shift the goalposts now. Murray doesn't have to be an All-Star to get that contract. That is the point we were debating. None of those guys I listed were stars. They were solid players who were young and thought to have potential. Some of them lived up to the potential, and others didn't. But they're all were where people in general think Murray will be.

It's weird that you're suggesting I'm some Murray lover when multiple posters accuse me of being blinded by irrational hate for the dude. Of course he's going to get paid. I believe his absence last season was a bigger blow than people are giving credit. Now I have not been keeping up with this thread and I'm wondering if there has been any evidence of DDR being on the block. I'd be surprised, but I guess there are scenarios that would work. Just unsubstantiated speculation...so far?

[DAF86]

So if Danny Green is way better than Murray, why the fuck do people keep acting like he matters? I'm not disagreeing that DeJounte is somewhat overrated, but you're falling into the "Murray's not good" camp. Of course, if you don't think Murray is going to be one of the top three or four players one the team, you won't think he's worth big money. But if you do think that, then you should also think he'll get $100M, because that's what such a player costs.

You are trying to shift the goalposts now. Murray doesn't have to be an All-Star to get that contract. That is the point we were debating. None of those guys I listed were stars. They were solid players who were young and thought to have potential. Some of them lived up to the potential, and others didn't. But they're all were where people in general think Murray will be.

It's weird that you're suggesting I'm some Murray lover when multiple posters accuse me of being blinded by irrational hate for the dude.


Unless Murray becomes a top 2/3 option for the Spurs he's not getting anything close to 100 millions for 4 years. Get real son. :lol

How am I shifting goal posts? :lol

And, fwiw, you can expect Murray to be serviceable without being an all-star. To be really honest, my biggest expectations regarding Murray are for him to become a Pat Beverly type player. That's not worth 100/4, tbh.

Also, let's say he does become an all-star type player. The chances of him becoming that next season are slim to none. So he's not very likely to get 100/4 next offseason, no matter what you say.

[Chinook]

Of course he's going to get paid. I believe his absence last season was a bigger blow than people are giving credit. Now I have not been keeping up with this thread and I'm wondering if there has been any evidence of DDR being on the block. I'd be surprised, but I guess there are scenarios that would work. Just unsubstantiated speculation...so far?

Yeah, as far as we know, there's nothing but rumors and rumors based on rumors. Maybe there's fire, but the amount of smoke seems to be coming from boredom more than anything.

[ducks]

Trade him for russel
He fit In with Gs

[spurs10]

Yeah, as far as we know, there's nothing but rumors and rumors based on rumors. Maybe there's fire, but the amount of smoke seems to be coming from boredom more than anything. Cool thanks....thought it was probably rumor....it's summer, what else can we talk about! :smokin

[Chinook]

How am I shifting goal posts? :lol

And, fwiw, you can expect Murray to be serviceable without being an all-star. To be really honest, my biggest expectations regarding Murray are for him to become a Pat Beverly type player. That's not worth 100/4, tbh.

Also, let's say he does become an all-star type player. The chances of him becoming that next season are slim to none. So he's not very likely to get 100/4 next offseason, no matter what you say.

You don't have to be an All-Star to get that money, so Murray doesn't have to be an All-Star to get it. He does have to be a good player, better than some more skeptical folks believe he'll be. But you can't simultaneously think Murray is a building block and believe he'll get a small (especially smaller enough to matter) contract. That's the disconnect my post was talking about. All of those examples I listed are non-stars who were considered to be core pieces nonetheless by their clubs. That's why they apply to Murray's case

It's moving the goal posts to go from "Well Murray won't be a DPoY/All-Star next year, so he won't get that much" to, "Murray isn't even going to be a top-four player on the team, so he won't get that much." You're setting a completely different standard for how good Murray needs to be and thusly how reasonable it is to project him as significantly less than $100M. The consensus here isn't that Murray is an All-Star, but it is that Murray is the defensive anchor with a burgeoning offensive game. That get $100 Million. Disagreeing with that consensus is understandable and defensible. But then that's a completely different argument than we were having. As long as you keep vacillating between these two different standards, you're going to keep letting every counter argument slough off.

To put it (yet) another way:

Premise 1a: Murray won't be an All-Star next year -- That's fine.

Premise 2a: The only players who get $100M/4 deals are All-Star (caliber) players -- This is wrong as demonstrated by the numerous counter-examples.

Conclusion a: Murray won't get $100M/4 -- This is invalid.


To contrast:

Premise 1b: Murray won't be good enough to be considered an essential piece to the young core -- This would be fine if you actually made this point..

Premise 2b: The only players who get $100M/4 deals considered to be essential pieces to a young core -- This is almost completely true.

Conclusion b: Murray won't get $100M/4 -- This would be valid.

1a and 1b aren't the same, and trying to move from the first to the second is moving the goalposts.

[MannyIsGod]

People here just don't understand how much NBA players get paid under the new(ish) CBA. Its why they're still always so hung up on Patty Mills contract.

[DAF86]

You don't have to be an All-Star to get that money, so Murray doesn't have to be an All-Star to get it. He does have to be a good player, better than some more skeptical folks believe he'll be. But you can't simultaneously think Murray is a building block and believe he'll get a small (especially smaller enough to matter) contract. That's the disconnect my post was talking about. All of those examples I listed are non-stars who were considered to be core pieces nonetheless by their clubs. That's why they apply to Murray's case

It's moving the goal posts to go from "Well Murray won't be a DPoY/All-Star next year, so he won't get that much" to, "Murray isn't even going to be a top-four player on the team, so he won't get that much." You're setting a completely different standard for how good Murray needs to be and thusly how reasonable it is to project him as significantly less than $100M. The consensus here isn't that Murray is an All-Star, but it is that Murray is the defensive anchor with a burgeoning offensive game. That get $100 Million. Disagreeing with that consensus is understandable and defensible. But then that's a completely different argument than we were having. As long as you keep vacillating between these two different standards, you're going to keep letting every counter argument slough off.

To put it (yet) another way:

Premise 1a: Murray won't be an All-Star next year -- That's fine.

Premise 2a: The only players who get $100M/4 deals are All-Star (caliber) players -- This is wrong as demonstrated by the numerous counter-examples.

Conclusion a: Murray won't get $100M/4 -- This is invalid.


To contrast:

Premise 1b: Murray won't be good enough to be considered an essential piece to the young core -- This would be fine if you actually made this point..

Premise 2b: The only players who get $100M/4 deals considered to be essential pieces to a young core -- This is almost completely true.

Conclusion b: Murray won't get $100M/4 -- This would be valid.

1a and 1b aren't the same, and trying to move from the first to the second is moving the goalposts.

Dude, stop beating around the Bush. I quoted this comment from you:


I'm just really expecting Murray to make something like $100M/4 after this year.

So, what type of production are you expecting from Murray to think he will get that kind of money?

[DAF86]

People here just don't understand how much NBA players get paid under the new(ish) CBA. Its why they're still always so hung up on Patty Mills contract.

Mills is part of that summer when folks thought contracts were going to be bigger than they ended up being. It really didn't play that way after that. Murray is not a 100/4 player under any circumstance.

[Dennis the Menace]

Mills is part of that summer when folks thought contracts were going to be bigger than they ended up being. It really didn't play that way after that. Murray is not a 100/4 player under any circumstance.


Lol he’s going to average close to 20 points and 7 rebounds per game

[DAF86]

Lol he’s going to average close to 20 points and 7 rebounds per game

Well, if he does, I have no problem with paying him 100/4.

[spurs10]

Well, if he does, I have no problem with paying him 100/4. :bobo

[Kurgan]

Lol he’s going to average close to 20 points and 7 rebounds per game

20 ppg after spending a year off the court with an ACL injury? Some of you people have some unrealistically high expectations. Murray will be rusty and for sure playing carefully because of the knee. If he can average 12 to 15 ppg, it should be considered a success.

[venitian navigator]

20 ppg after spending a year off the court with an ACL injury? Some of you people have some unrealistically high expectations. Murray will be rusty and for sure playing carefully because of the knee. If he can average 12 to 15 ppg, it should be considered a success.

Totally agree...patfo should take care of him in that sense. That's why I don't understand how a big part of ST is so much inclined to see him starting from the beginning of the season...
White, just before hitting the play off wall, showed enough to gain his starting point guard spot and actually he's hands down our best point guard simply cause, differently from DJM, he sees the court and the movements of his teammates and plays accordingly.
Forbes has probably been our best play off guard and played a season improving step by step...and his outside shooting is, as of now, essential to the team. He's become a deserving starter...and only reason he could came from the bench could be if FO is so impressed by Walker progress in playing game and outside shooting and confident in health (his problems in that regard last season limited his role...but they were nowhere near to DJM problems) to see him as a potential star needing to shine from the start of the season.
On the other side, DJM comes from an injury that ended his season and put big questions on his future...also a blind man could see that his coming back to the game must come with absolute prudence...obviously his playing time must be limited till reaching a comfort zone that would help him to be back to where he was and possibly improve. In that sense, starting from the bench playing most of the time, at least from the beginning of the season, with players that he already knows and played with and that are the best to complement his skills (Mills, Forbes, Belli...aka the best and proven outside shooters we have) could be the best way to let him re-gain his confidence in the game and in his skills. That said, I see no problems for patfo to pay him next off season...its obvious they consider him a big part of the future and DJM looks to have a very good relationship and confidence in our team and fo. But it takes time to figure out at what level is your game and reliabilty and at what point is your career after such unfortunate season...

[spurspl]

Totally agree, acl is a killer for players improvement. Before acl murray was just a decent young player with great D but still with no shoot which in 3pt-shooting era is a must have for point guards. Im in shock how u overvalue spurs young players. If spurs want to have some young guys who can become an all star in future they need to tank or trade for some high picks. And I still dont understand why spurs management dont want to sacrifice 1-2 seasons for rebuilding. Just imagine what we could do with luka doncic, tatum or mitchell. They would become a fcking beast under spurs coaches.

Btw as long as i think about trading derozan, the idea of getting aaron gordon and mo bamba and/or isaac is a great deal. We get some young pieces and with loonie, white, samanic, keldon, poetl spurs future seems to be definetely brighter than now. Mo bamba is very interesting, people think he’s a bust but under our coaches i think he would become a solid center. Orlando get another almost all star caliber player next to vucecic who they recently signed for 4yrs.

There is also a posibility to add cavs to this trade and get kevin love if cavs would be interested to get some our picks to continue rebuilding. Starting 5: white/loonie/gordon/lma/love and deep bench.

[Chinook]

Dude, stop beating around the Bush. I quoted this comment from you

Yeah, but you're in a thread where a huge chunk of the justification for trading DMDR comes from believing the team needs to do what's best for DJM. DeRozan literally fits with every other piece of the young core just fine. It's just Murray that's an issue. There's no way he'll be that important and not get a $100-Million contract.


So, what type of production are you expecting from Murray to think he will get that kind of money?


If Murray is anything like people believe he was last year while also being a consistent double-digit scorer, he's going to get a lot of money. He doesn't have to be great to get it. He doesn't even have to be better than Gay. He just has to be good, young and show room to grown, and the Spurs will lock him up.

I had already answered your question. That was in a response to you, but you went off the rails thinking Draymond had already been an All-Star and DPoY when he was really just a young player who had shown potential.


Mills is part of that summer when folks thought contracts were going to be bigger than they ended up being. It really didn't play that way after that. Murray is not a 100/4 player under any circumstance.

Mills' contract is only bad because he fell off. His projected role (that he doesn't play but was thought he would play) totally warrants his contract now.


Well, if he does, I have no problem with paying him 100/4.

Of course you don't. But Murray would get a max with that production. I don't know how many times I have to tell you that for you to get it. This is once again you vacillating. If Murray is a star for the team, a 20-point scorer, he'll get the max. That's what that threshold means. But if he's less than that, a good core player who looks like he'll keep getting better, than he'll get a huge, non-max deal. That's where $100 Million comes into play.

[PICK-N-ROLL]

DDR cannot he traded to receive multiple players. Too many contracts already. DDR for one contract + picks makes more sense, if that’s possible. Best case would be DDR + Mills and get back one contract plus the picks.

[Blackhaus]

He ain’t getting traded

[exstatic]

DDR cannot he traded to receive multiple players. Too many contracts already. DDR for one contract + picks makes more sense, if that’s possible. Best case would be DDR + Mills and get back one contract plus the picks.

Sure he could. They'd just have to cut Metu, and eat that small contract.

[spurspl]

He ain’t getting traded
yeah, most likely bc spurs management is retarded and they prefer to make another weak performance in playoffs instead of moving forward (make some huge trades and/or tank for top picks)

[cpds421]

LaMarcus wants a buyout?
https://www.blazersedge.com/2019/7/16/20696569/nba-trade-rumors-lamarcus-aldridge-portland-trail-blazers-san-antonio-spurs

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

LaMarcus wants a buyout?
https://www.blazersedge.com/2019/7/16/20696569/nba-trade-rumors-lamarcus-aldridge-portland-trail-blazers-san-antonio-spurs

Tell uncle and nephew's media sycophant (Jabari) to go fly a kite.

[GusT15]

Tell uncle and nephew's media sycophant (Jabari) to go fly a kite.

Lol,that clown tries desperately to stay relevant,he shows up in a Portland Morning Show,mentions that the Spurs could look to get some assets for Aldridge and in the end of his speculation,LMA already asked for a buyout/got waived and joined Portland.

Fuck Jabari Young.Worthless,speculative,biased piece of shit.

[Prime BEEF]

The easy answer is trade him to the bulls for porter and an unprotected 1st. But I think I’d prefer trading him to the magic for Gordon and Okeke. Spurs solidify the PF and SF positions for the future that way plus all of our good young guards. I think Okeke will become a very good player...as in a solid starter at least.

[RiverwalkParade]

On board with Gordon/Okeke. Basically getting a lottery pick in that deal with Okeke, as well as a starting PF. Lots of athleticism in that lineup.

[MannyIsGod]

The Spurs were incredibly high on Murray coming into last year. IF he comes in and starts living up to their expectations, which is probably less than 20 ppg and whatever else, then Chinook is absolutely right that they'll lock him up and 4/100 is probably in the ballpark. Maybe a bit high but not by much.

[spurspl]

On board with Gordon/Okeke. Basically getting a lottery pick in that deal with Okeke, as well as a starting PF. Lots of athleticism in that lineup.

forget about athleticism from okeke. Hes coming back from acl injury. better than him would be bamba or isaac

[exstatic]

People here just don't understand how much NBA players get paid under the new(ish) CBA. Its why they're still always so hung up on Patty Mills contract.

I think it was about a year after the deal, someone posted that his annual salary was like 112th in the NBA, and his production was about the same, somewhere in the one teens. It's also not like you can NOT pay Patty using Bird rights, and turn around and use that money on someone else. It wasn't cap room they used to sign him.

[duncan2k5]

A trade won't happen. We'll have a 20 page thread where everyone is excited for nothing. Then the Spurs will trot Derozan out on the court only to watch him continue to be a career net negative.
This, I'm afraid...

[DAF86]

Yeah, but you're in a thread where a huge chunk of the justification for trading DMDR comes from believing the team needs to do what's best for DJM. DeRozan literally fits with every other piece of the young core just fine. It's just Murray that's an issue. There's no way he'll be that important and not get a $100-Million contract.





I had already answered your question. That was in a response to you, but you went off the rails thinking Draymond had already been an All-Star and DPoY when he was really just a young player who had shown potential.



Mills' contract is only bad because he fell off. His projected role (that he doesn't play but was thought he would play) totally warrants his contract now.



Of course you don't. But Murray would get a max with that production. I don't know how many times I have to tell you that for you to get it. This is once again you vacillating. If Murray is a star for the team, a 20-point scorer, he'll get the max. That's what that threshold means. But if he's less than that, a good core player who looks like he'll keep getting better, than he'll get a huge, non-max deal. That's where $100 Million comes into play.

Dude, what a fucking chicken shit you are. :lol

You said this:


I'm just really expecting Murray to make something like $100M/4 after this year.

"I" as in "you". YOU are "really" expecting Murray to make 100/4. You didn't write "people in this thread", you wrote "I". So I ask you again, please answer with a direct response. None of this "what people believe" shit, what YOU believe. And with countable, verifiable numbers like 16, 7 and 7 or 18, 8 and 6. None of this "consistent double-digit scorer" bullshit. A consistent double-digit scorer can average 10 ppg or 20 ppg.

[Prime BEEF]

Murray numbers next season...

13.7ppg, 5.7rpg, 4.4apg

[Blackhaus]

Murray numbers next season...

13.7ppg, 5.7rpg, 4.4apg

sounds completely reasonable. To me that sounds like a 18ish million a year player, 25 a year at that production would give me nightmares if I was PATFO

[duncan2k5]

Murray numbers next season...

13.7ppg, 5.7rpg, 4.4apg

Sounds about right, with some great metrics

[Chinook]

Murray numbers next season...

13.7ppg, 5.7rpg, 4.4apg

I see him having a higher rebound:point ratio. He'll threaten double-doubles if he gets minutes. Maybe eightish a game?

[DAF86]

Murray numbers next season...

13.7ppg, 5.7rpg, 4.4apg

I expect his ppg production to be more modest, imho.


sounds completely reasonable. To me that sounds like a 18ish million a year player, 25 a year at that production would give me nightmares if I was PATFO

Of course that type of production isn't worth a 100/4 contract. I don't know the fuck is Chinook smoking. :lol

[duncan2k5]

I see him having a higher rebound:point ratio. He'll threaten double-doubles if he gets minutes. Maybe eightish a game?

Can't see 8 over a whole season from a PG... that's historic level numbers from that position...

[Chinook]

:rolleyes Give it a rest DAF. I'm not going in circles with you about yet another pointless discussion.

[Chinook]

Can't see 8 over a whole season from a PG... that's historic level numbers from that position...

He averaged 9.5 per-36 two years ago. Maybe he doesn't match that in more minutes. But in a staring role getting 30 MPG, he should get a lot.

[DAF86]

Being optimistic, I expect, at best, 12 ppg, 7 rpg and 4 apg.

And that's being really optimistic. Most realistic scenario is he won't even average that. You have to consider this little fact that he will be freshly coming off an entire season where he didn't play because he torn his fucking ACL apart. He will be in minutes restriction, he might not even start, he, very likely, won't even play over 20 minutes per game. How is he suppossed to earn a 100/4 contract like that? :lol

[DAF86]

:rolleyes Give it a rest DAF. I'm not going in circles with you about yet another pointless discussion.

You didn't need to go into any circles, tbh. :lol You could just posted the numbers you think he will average to command a 100/4 contract and this argument would have been over long ago.

The problem is that you already realized you were talking out of your ass, just for the sake of winning the other argument (the "it's good to let people walk sometimes" one) but you don't have the balls to say: "yeah, I might have exaggerated a little with the figures there". :lol

[spurspl]

Being optimistic, I expect, at best, 12 ppg, 7 rpg and 4 apg.

And that's being really optimistic. Most realistic scenario is he won't even average that. You have to consider this little fact that he will be freshly coming off an entire season where he didn't play because he torn his fucking ACL apart. He will be in minutes restriction, he might not even start, he, very likely, won't even play over 20 minutes per game. How is he suppossed to earn a 100/4 contract like that? :lol

u right, but numbers will be much lower. i expect sth around 8ppg/4rpg/3apg. Guys who think murray will be back and put such a numbers like he deserve 100/4 are funny

[DAF86]

u right, but numbers will be much lower. i expect sth around 8ppg/4rpg/2-3apg. Guys who think murray will be back and put such a numbers like he deserve 100/4 are funny

Yeah, most likely.

[R. DeMurre]

Murray numbers next season...

13.7ppg, 5.7rpg, 4.4apg


Being optimistic, I expect, at best, 12 ppg, 7 rpg and 4 apg.

And that's being really optimistic.


If he comes close to these numbers and is reasonably efficient and still playing great defense, I'd call that a very successful season. And if D White does something like 12/4/4, the Spurs will surprise a lot of people.

[Chinook]

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=per_game&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&season_start=1&season_end=5&lg_id=NBA&age_min=0&age_max=99&is_playoffs=N&height_min=0&height_max=99&birth_country_is=Y&as_comp=gt&as_val=0&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&c1stat=pts_per_g&c1comp=gt&c1val=12&c2stat=trb_per_g&c2comp=gt&c2val=7&c3stat=ast_per_g&c3comp=gt&c3val=4&c4stat=dbpm&c4comp=gt&c4val=2&order_by=season


I'll just leave this here. But yeah, keep thinking you know what NBA contracts are worth.

[DAF86]

If he comes close to these numbers and is reasonably efficient and still playing great defense, I'd call that a very successful season. And if D White does something like 12/4/4, the Spurs will surprise a lot of people.

White will be putting over 14 ppg, tbh.

[DAF86]

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=per_game&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&season_start=1&season_end=5&lg_id=NBA&age_min=0&age_max=99&is_playoffs=N&height_min=0&height_max=99&birth_country_is=Y&as_comp=gt&as_val=0&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&c1stat=pts_per_g&c1comp=gt&c1val=12&c2stat=trb_per_g&c2comp=gt&c2val=7&c3stat=ast_per_g&c3comp=gt&c3val=4&c4stat=dbpm&c4comp=gt&c4val=2&order_by=season


I'll just leave this here. But yeah, keep thinking you know what NBA contracts are worth.

What is that suppossed to show son?

If you don't want to keep going in circles all you need to post is the pts, rbds and assts you think Murray will average, tbh. :lol

[Chinook]

What is that suppossed to show son? If you don't want to keep going in circles all you need to post is the pts, rbds and assts you think Murray will average, tbh. :lol

It shows your "generous" estimates for Murray would make him a max player. Can't you read the type of stats you were hiding behind during that Bertans thread?

Simply put, he doesn't have to do much to get $100 Million. Even your estimates got him there. Why do you want mine?

[Prime BEEF]

White’s numbers next season....

15.8ppg, 4.3rpg, 4.7apg

[Drom John]

It shows your "generous" estimates for Murray would make him a max player. Can't you read the type of stats you were hiding behind during that Bertans thread?

Simply put, he doesn't have to do much to get $100 Million. Even your estimates got him there. Why do you want mine?

Not counting that Murray's premier stats include steals.
FWIW, Five Thirty Eight has Murray as a $100M/5year value.

I think most of these ST Murray projection are too optimistic because of minutes. I expect Murray's minutes to be slightly more than Gay's 1231 in 2017-18, no b2b, eased in at the beginning of the season. I do expect improvement in the per 36 stats, particularly changing TOs to assists.

[MannyIsGod]

FWIW, if this team is ultimately successful everyone's numbers will be somewhat lower than expected as the key will be balance. Its quite probably no one averages over 20 ppg on this team in the upcoming season.

[Chinook]

Not counting that Murray's premier stats include steals.
FWIW, Five Thirty Eight has Murray as a $100M/5year value.

I think most of these ST Murray projection are too optimistic because of minutes. I expect Murray's minutes to be slightly more than Gay's 1231 in 2017-18, no b2b, eased in at the beginning of the season. I do expect improvement in the per 36 stats, particularly changing TOs to assists.

To me it all depends on who starts. If DeJounte starts and especially if DeRozan is moved, I think he will average double-digit points, eightish boards and a handful of assists. People in general will pay more for his impact stats, and PATFO will pay more on top of that for his loyalty.

[DAF86]

It shows your "generous" estimates for Murray would make him a max player. Can't you read the type of stats you were hiding behind during that Bertans thread?

Simply put, he doesn't have to do much to get $100 Million. Even your estimates got him there. Why do you want mine?

There isn't a single 12, 7, 4 guy on that list. :lol (also, those were my "extremely optimistic" stats, tbh).

The closest guy to 12 pts is Walton with 13 pts but he also had 13 rbds and 5 assists.

Also, I want to know what you think Murray will average because you must really trust him since you "really believe" he will get a 100/4 contract, tbh. :lol

[spurspl]

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=per_game&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&season_start=1&season_end=5&lg_id=NBA&age_min=0&age_max=99&is_playoffs=N&height_min=0&height_max=99&birth_country_is=Y&as_comp=gt&as_val=0&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&c1stat=pts_per_g&c1comp=gt&c1val=12&c2stat=trb_per_g&c2comp=gt&c2val=7&c3stat=ast_per_g&c3comp=gt&c3val=4&c4stat=dbpm&c4comp=gt&c4val=2&order_by=season


I'll just leave this here. But yeah, keep thinking you know what NBA contracts are worth.

This argument is holy molly poor, murray stats isnt even close to that (and probably never be)+ hes coming back from acl, dude pls stop it. One overpaid dude in a team is enough (mills).

[Chinook]

This argument is holy molly poor, murray stats isnt even close to that (and probably never be)+ hes coming back from acl, dude pls stop it. One overpaid dude in a team is enough (mills).

Murray averaged 14/9/5 per-36. I get not believing in him and all that. Maybe he doesn't come back. But if he puts up the numbers listed, he'll get $100 Million. That's just how the market works. Thinking he isn't good enough is one thing, but not understanding how good you have to be to get $100 Million is another.

[Chinook]

Surprised no one brought up Brogdan yet since he's the most obvious counter-counter example.