**OFFICIAL 2020 Offseason/Draft Thread**

[Will Hunting]

I'll get to you in a couple of years when teams field one super athletic token LB and nothing else. It won't be the first nor the last ocassion time has proven me to be right, tbh. This feels like going back to '09 when I signed to ST and I had to argue with folks about who was better between Manu and Joe Johnson. ":cry Johnson averages 25 ppg, he's clearly better :cry"
:lol you also claim Manning > Brady which is a lot more relevant seeing that we’re talking about football.

[Monostradamus]

They beat him by "power running" or by throwing for 350 yards?
They ran more than they passed. They dominated time of possession, and limited Mahomes’ opportunities, which only happens with a good running game. But no, Mr Argentina, keep telling us how you understand American football better than Bill Belichick :lmao

[Millennial_Messiah]

:lol you also claim Manning > Brady which is a lot more relevant seeing that we’re talking about football.

If you had asked me in 2013 or 2014... Manning or Brady... I would definitely have said Manning, even with only 1 ring instead of 3, seeing as how the Broncos offense was unstoppable and they seemed pretty much inevitably likely to win at least one ring in the near future from there. Not to mention Brady's first 3 rings being greatly assisted by the top defense and special teams.

But Brady's final not 1, not 2, but 3 rings in the 2010's vaulted him over Manning (even though Manning did get 1 more ring sandwiched in there) and catapulted Brady beyond the point of argument. 6 > 2 and the legacy isn't even close when you factor in longevity, underdog status to even rise to fame, etc. Manning was a front runner and a regular season champion, but Brady was the best when it mattered most.

[Will Hunting]

If you had asked me in 2013 or 2014... Manning or Brady... I would definitely have said Manning, even with only 1 ring instead of 3, seeing as how the Broncos offense was unstoppable and they seemed pretty much inevitably likely to win at least one ring in the near future from there. Not to mention Brady's first 3 rings being greatly assisted by the top defense and special teams.

But Brady's final not 1, not 2, but 3 rings in the 2010's vaulted him over Manning (even though Manning did get 1 more ring sandwiched in there) and catapulted Brady beyond the point of argument. 6 > 2 and the legacy isn't even close when you factor in longevity, underdog status to even rise to fame, etc. Manning was a front runner and a regular season champion, but Brady was the best when it mattered most.
Manning’s 2006 Super Bowl was aided by good defense more than Brady was. He threw 7 fucking interceptions in 4 playoff games.

If Manning had closed out the 2013 season with a Super Bowl win Id have given him the nod at that point, but instead he went out and failed in spectaculat fashion. Then after 2014 there was never an argument ever again.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Manning’s 2006 Super Bowl was aided by good defense more than Brady was. He threw 7 fucking interceptions in 4 playoff games.

If Manning had closed out the 2013 season with a Super Bowl win Id have given him the nod at that point, but instead he went out and failed in spectaculat fashion. Then after 2014 there was never an argument ever again.

yeah even against the best defense of the generation, Manning putting up a complete stinker with the kind of stacked offensive weapons he had in the 13-14 season was inexcusable. That Seattle defense was amazing but they gave up 30+ to Andrew Luck, 24 to a lousy winless Tampa team, gave up 20 to Matt Schaub, etc in the 2013 title run. No way Fivehead gets a pass for only putting up 8 points (and those were all in garbage time) against them.

Brady is clearly the better legacy by far. Brady > Manning no matter how he does in Tampa.

But I also don't buy the argument that Brady beat the same exact defense in '14-15 that Manning completely thudded against in '13-14. It was clear from early on in the 2014 season that the Seattle defense were not quite the same, not just that they had lost a few players but also that even the best players on that team lost a lot of their swagger and jubilance from the 2012 and (especially) 2013 campaigns. They were still great but they weren't the same team in 2014. Sort of like the Lakers in 2002 or 2003 who were much more vulnerable than the unstoppable 2000 and 2001 versions that were full of swagger and confidence.

[Will Hunting]

yeah even against the best defense of the generation, Manning putting up a complete stinker with the kind of stacked offensive weapons he had in the 13-14 season was inexcusable. That Seattle defense was amazing but they gave up 30+ to Andrew Luck, 24 to a lousy winless Tampa team, gave up 20 to Matt Schaub, etc in the 2013 title run. No way Fivehead gets a pass for only putting up 8 points (and those were all in garbage time) against them.

Brady is clearly the better legacy by far. Brady > Manning no matter how he does in Tampa.

But I also don't buy the argument that Brady beat the same exact defense in '14-15 that Manning completely thudded against in '13-14. It was clear from early on in the 2014 season that the Seattle defense were not quite the same, not just that they had lost a few players but also that even the best players on that team lost a lot of their swagger and jubilance from the 2012 and (especially) 2013 campaigns. They were still great but they weren't the same team in 2014. Sort of like the Lakers in 2002 or 2003 who were much more vulnerable than the unstoppable 2000 and 2001 versions that were full of swagger and confidence.
They weren’t the same defense but they werent 20 points per game worse than the 2013 Seahawks defense was (really 28 since the 8 points Manning scores were after the Seahawks had gone to soft zone coverage).

[Millennial_Messiah]

They weren’t the same defense but they werent 20 points per game worse than the 2013 Seahawks defense was (really 28 since the 8 points Manning scores were after the Seahawks had gone to soft zone coverage).

They were significantly worse. If Brady had won the AFCCG in 2013, the Pats still would have lost big, but probably more like 34-17 instead of 43-8. That Seahawks defense was on a whole different planet in 2013. In 2014 they were still the best on Earth though, and props to Brady for getting past that. The injury to the nickel corner near the beginning of the game really helped, and props to Brady/McDaniels for exploiting that like the Chris Paul double screen against the Spurs in the '15 playoffs.

[FrostKing]

It was also the first Super Bowl played in cold weather - New Jersey

Aiding the defensive Seahawks

[Will Hunting]

It was also the first Super Bowl played in cold weather - New Jersey

Aiding the defensive Seahawks
:cry poor little Peyton can’t play in cold weather :cry

[Millennial_Messiah]

It was also the first Super Bowl played in cold weather - New Jersey

Aiding the defensive Seahawks

2014-15

Seattle didn't really belong in SB 49. Green Bay and the Cowboys were obviously way, way better than them in 2014, but lost out due to a bogus tiebreaker, and the DAL-GB game was the real NFCCG that year and decided on a 50/50 catch/no-catch call. But Green Bay was obviously so superior to the Seahawks in the actual canon NFCCG that year it wasn't funny, but Mike McCarthy kept shooting the Packers in the foot by going Full Jason Garrett, and the Packers' firm hold on that game fell apart at the bitter end.

Should have been the Brady-Rodgers super bowl, aka the one that never happened.

Never go Full Jason Garrett. The one guy that goes Full Jason Garrett when it matters most is.... Mike McCarthy.

https://www.janiking.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/0895186001452624135_filepicker.jpg

[Millennial_Messiah]

:cry poor little Peyton can’t play in cold weather :cry

Meanwhile, ol' Thomas drives the team downfield with a vengeance in cold, snow, rain, ice... whatever it takes.

The one type of weather he curiously was historically terrible in was heat and humidity. Which never affected his Patriots teams too much because of the course of nature of the NFL season..... but it will be curious to see if he doesn't peter out now that his home stadium is outdoors in a tropical rainforest environment.

[Will Hunting]

2014-15

Seattle didn't really belong in SB 49. Green Bay and the Cowboys were obviously way, way better than them in 2014, but lost out due to a bogus tiebreaker, and the DAL-GB game was the real NFCCG that year and decided on a 50/50 catch/no-catch call. But Green Bay was obviously so superior to the Seahawks in the actual canon NFCCG that year it wasn't funny, but Mike McCarthy kept shooting the Packers in the foot by going Full Jason Garrett, and the Packers' firm hold on that game fell apart at the bitter end.

Should have been the Brady-Rodgers super bowl, aka the one that never happened.

Never go Full Jason Garrett. The one guy that goes Full Jason Garrett when it matters most is.... Mike McCarthy.

https://www.janiking.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/0895186001452624135_filepicker.jpg
The Cardinals were also better before Carson Palmtree tore his ACL, I think they were like 9-1 at that point.

[Millennial_Messiah]

The Cardinals were also better before Carson Palmtree tore his ACL, I think they were like 9-1 at that point.

Yep and once they were down to their 3rd or 4th string QB they were hapless and lost to a ghastly 7-9 division winner in the NFC South that year.

[Will Hunting]

:lol Patriots sign Hoyer

Certainly doesn’t seem like they’re trying to compete next year.

[Millennial_Messiah]

:lol Patriots sign Hoyer

Certainly doesn’t seem like they’re trying to compete next year.

Hoyer is the type of QB who can win 6 games out of his ass (see 2014 Browns season), especially in that awful AFC East division, and it will stop the Patriots from tanking. Progress stopper all the way. :lol Belichick if he is the starter in 2020

[jeebus]

:lol Patriots sign Hoyer

Certainly doesn’t seem like they’re trying to compete next year.
Don't underestimate Hoyer da GAWD.

[spurraider21]

new look

1242165515042181121

1242169596099981312

[leemajors]

Just go back to the old school uniforms, those don't look very good.

[spurraider21]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ET0isHUUMAgwxYP?format=jpg&name=large

[spurraider21]

raiders mariota contract is interesting. its actually a 2 year deal (thought it would be one year)

the simple terms are 2 years, 17.6 mil, with only 1 year (7.5 mil) guaranteed. but there are shitload of escalators and incentives (if he sees 60% of snaps, playoff/superbowl appearances) that could jack it up to 2 years 47.5 mil

its a good structure, tbh... worst case, he's an expensive backup (but a high end one)... but having him under contract for a second year also makes him a trade asset. and even if he overachieves, becomes a full time starter, they have him locked up for next season as well

i dont think he's an NFL starter, though. think they just want to light a fire under Carr's ass, which i'm ok with.

[leemajors]

Frederick retired. Brutal.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Frederick retired. Brutal.

that's a huge hit off the cap to sign some other big name, and Looney was just as good in 2018, and Joe Looney is locked up for us for awhile on a cheap deal and he's a very solid starter. Did not give up a single sack as a 16-game starter in 2018. For comparison, Frederick gave up 2 sacks on Romo in the same game in week 2 of his first year as a starter (2013) to (the newest Cowboy) Dontari Poe, then of the Chiefs.

Frederick was the best center in football from 2014-2016 but he hasn't been the same guy since. Glad he got rich while he could.

[leemajors]

that's a huge hit off the cap to sign some other big name, and Looney was just as good in 2018, and Joe Looney is locked up for us for awhile on a cheap deal and he's a very solid starter. Did not give up a single sack as a 16-game starter in 2018. For comparison, Frederick gave up 2 sacks on Romo in the same game in week 2 of his first year as a starter (2013) to (the newest Cowboy) Dontari Poe, then of the Chiefs.

Frederick was the best center in football from 2014-2016 but he hasn't been the same guy since. Glad he got rich while he could.

Currently 11 mill against the cap this year. 650k relief so that is untrue.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Currently 11 mill against the cap this year. 650k relief so that is untrue.

Yeah but all the dead cap is this year, so he won't count against the cap beyond 2020.

I still think it's fucktarded that retired players should count against the cap. They should be exempt, but they should be forced to remain retired for at least 3 years.

[spurraider21]

newton getting cut

:lol nobody wanted to trade for him

[Millennial_Messiah]

newton getting cut

:lol nobody wanted to trade for him
Too much money for too much risk.

Panthers will pay him good for a year to play for whoever else, and they can probably get him on a cheap 1-year deal since he'll be double dipping... (see Michael Finley, 2005-06). But he's too much of a drama queen to take a backup role, and the XFL went defunct due to COVID-19, so he's really low on options...

Patriots
Chargers
...Bears? (Yes they got Foles but to me he's not starter level IMO even though he's better than Trubisky)
Jaguars
Dolphins? (Fitzpatrick is old and a mercenary anyway. He wouldn't whine about being the backup. He just does his thing and has made a career of making Bill Belicheat cry in late December.)

[leemajors]

Boys signed Dantari Poe. D line looking better in the middle.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Boys signed Dantari Poe. D line looking better in the middle.

McCoy and Poe were together on the Panthers middle last year. Remember when they stood the Packers up at the goal line in the snow?

[Chris]

Newton: "Free and hungry"

:lol

[Millennial_Messiah]

Newton: "Free and hungry"

:lol
Fresh outta da slammuh niggaz :lol

[spurraider21]

cowboys signed Greg Zuerlein... that's pretty nice

[Millennial_Messiah]

cowboys signed Greg Zuerlein... that's pretty nice

Holy shit. one of the best in the NFL and huge leg and generally CLUTCH (55 and 57 yarders straight down the middle to beat the Saints in the championship game, needed both of them). Had one bad miss last year. Tends to miss a couple games per year or so due to hamstring, though. But that's an enormous improvement on special teams compared to the revolving door crappy kickers we've been through in the past 3 years.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Will the Panthers be the worst team in the NFL in 2020? I can't think of a worse roster honestly.

McCaffrey will make a few plays, but that team is horribly lousy from end to end. Kuechly, Olsen, McCoy, Poe, Bradberry gone. They didn't replace any of them. And they don't have a viable starting QB. In that division with 2 contenders and one Atlanta team that is jeckyll and hyde perennial 8-8 type, I see the Panthers being lucky to get to 2-14 in 2020.

[spurraider21]

these first few months of the year are the only time i look at college football footage... dont care for NCAA generally, but care quite a bit about the draft

while last year was loaded with edge rushers (nick bosa, clelin ferrell, josh allen, rashan gary, brian burns, montez sweat, and lj collier all going in the first round), this year is the year of the WR (with a strong OL group, at least at the top). jeudy, lamb, ruggs, higgins, reagor, mims, jefferson, shenault, aiyuk could all legitimately go in the first round

the run on receivers will likely start at pick 11... where you've got the jets, followed by the raiders, niners, and two picks later, the broncos, all of whom are in the WR market.

Ceedee Lamb has been picking up a lot of hype recently as the #1 WR of the class, but honestly, the more i watch, the more i'm convinced Jeudy is the clear #1, especially for a team that needs instant production. his route running is already more than NFL ready, and he reminds me quite a bit of Amari Cooper in that regard. on day 1, Cooper was already one of the better route runners in the league. i think Jeudy compares quite a bit to Amari Cooper, but is a bit better at making plays on the deep ball, so i'm looking at a Stefon Diggs type.

Lamb is more of a strider, is much better at making contested catches, and was a YAC monster. one of the common comparisons i've read on him is hopkins because of his body control and 50/50 winning despite not being the most sudden athlete

i think Jeudy has such a high floor and his ability to separate should translate on day 1, whereas i think Lamb will rely on winning contested catches, which will be much harder at the NFL level. he could end up being a late bloomer like devante parker. WR is probably the hardest difficult to draft outside of QB's... but i think Jeudy has a significantly better chance at being a 1000 yard rookie than Lamb, which is why he's my WR1 of the draft.

i wouldn't be mad if the jets took jeudy and we took the remaining lamb, because he's a really strong prospect too, but i think taking Lamb over Jeudy would be a mistake.

i haven't looked too much into Henry Ruggs, who has been exploding post combine. everyone is now calling him the next Tyreek Hill, but we have seen a lot of college burners not translate at the NFL level, and at a surface level, Ruggs wasn't incredibly productive. but i haven't really studied him much at all to make a call. i'm just skeptical of the hype. will update this at some point later

[FrostKing]

Antonio Brown to the Ravens

[Will Hunting]

Antonio Brown to the Ravens
Can’t wait until he blows up at Lamar Jackson for tucking it and running instead of getting Antonio 15 targets every game.

[spurraider21]

Raiders 1 year 6M deal with Eli Apple falls through... the raiders were already fairly likely to draft at least 1 CB early. unless they sign a replacement like dennard/kirkpatrick/ryan, that becomes even more of a certainty. i also wouldn't hate a 1 year flier on jason verrett

[Millennial_Messiah]

Antonio Brown to the Ravens

Not official yet. Up in the air. And he'll start the season suspended if he does go anywhere.

[spurraider21]

the more i watch Ruggs, the less I like him as a top 20 pick. i think i'd take Jalen Reagor over him

hopefully the raiders can nab one of Jeudy or Lamb at 12, and i'll be happy with that. outside of a trade, the only way that doesnt happen is if both Jax and NYJ go WR and take those 2

[spurraider21]

i find myself going a bit back and forth between lamb and jeudy. i think jeudy just has a higher floor, and is more likely to produce day 1. its why i've leaned that way

then again GM's dont make decisions based solely on who they think will be a safer rookie, and lamb definitely has the upside to become that #1, go-to receiver who you can count on for a tough catch through contact when chips are down

[DAF86]

i find myself going a bit back and forth between lamb and jeudy. i think jeudy just has a higher floor, and is more likely to produce day 1. its why i've leaned that way

then again GM's dont make decisions based solely on who they think will be a safer rookie, and lamb definitely has the upside to become that #1, go-to receiver who you can count on for a tough catch through contact when chips are down

Which one is the fastest? Go with that one.

[FrostKing]

Which one is the fastest? Go with that one.
FALSE

If you break down the quality of 1st Round WR taken, the correlation is Size

[spurraider21]

Which one is the fastest? Go with that one.
lol no

[spurraider21]

FALSE

If you break down the quality of 1st Round WR taken, the correlation is Size
its not JUST size, but the freaks of the league are the guys with size who also move with the fluidity and suddenness of the smaller guys, which obviously is incredibly rare. julio is a great example of that.

there isn't 1 trait that makes or breaks WR success. antonio brown was dominant but didnt run a crazy 40 time, wasnt big. its probably the hardest position to project besides QB.

the bigger receivers are difference makers usually because they can catch contested passes through contact... thats why a lot of the top guys in recent years were bigger. julio, calvin, aj green, fitzgerald, hopkins, demaryius thomas, dez bryant. its not even necessarily the "tallest" guys, as hopkins is 6'1. but he's built bigger than most receivers and plays physical

[Millennial_Messiah]

its not JUST size, but the freaks of the league are the guys with size who also move with the fluidity and suddenness of the smaller guys, which obviously is incredibly rare. julio is a great example of that.

there isn't 1 trait that makes or breaks WR success. antonio brown was dominant but didnt run a crazy 40 time, wasnt big. its probably the hardest position to project besides QB.

the bigger receivers are difference makers usually because they can catch contested passes through contact... thats why a lot of the top guys in recent years were bigger. julio, calvin, aj green, fitzgerald, hopkins, demaryius thomas, dez bryant. its not even necessarily the "tallest" guys, as hopkins is 6'1. but he's built bigger than most receivers and plays physical

DK Metcalf in Seattle is the next great one of those


how in the world did he fall to the 2nd round? because he was inexperienced at "route running"? yeah... look at the 2016 class of 1st round receivers and how that turned out.

[spurraider21]

metcalf has nowhere near the agility of any of the guys i mentioned, let alone julio jones

he's blazing in a straight line and a tackle-breaker after the catch because of his strength

[DAF86]

FALSE

If you break down the quality of 1st Round WR taken, the correlation is Size

Sure, that's important too. Not as important as speed though.

[DAF86]

lol no

You can teach WR's pretty much anything: route running, catching, toughness, blocking, etc. You can't teach speed though. You can't teach size either, but speed is more important in a WR, tbh.

[DAF86]

Heck, even if the guy doesn't pan out as a WR, you can always turn him into a defensive back or, worst case scenario, a ST specialist. You can't ever go wrong drafting speed.

"Skill positions" in the NFL are so fucking overrated is not even funny. Catching a football or running a route isn't really all that difficult. The physical atributes of the players are a lot more important than any "technique" they can be taught.

[spurraider21]

straight line running speed is far from the most important trait though... short area quickness/change of direction. body control (both in the air and on the ground to make catches in traffic). catching can only be taught so much. some guys just have more natural hands.

and theres a huge mental component to being a great wide receiver. its not just a matter of running the route in the playbook. you have the read the defender's body language and leverage, figure out what the coverage is, and make subtle rout adjustments accordingly

while you do have your freak athletes like randy moss and calvin johnson that tore it up, you also have more pedestrian athletes like jerry rice, isaac bruce, deandre hopkins, larry fitzgerald who are greats despite not being particularly fast. anquan boldin was legendarily slow but was still a monster receiver, and not just the older, slot/possession receiver he was with baltimore.

if you look at the list of wide receivers with the fastest 40 yard dash times, it doesnt necessarily correlate with greatness

the great misunderstanding of the WR position is that you can just stick a phenomenal athlete there and they'll eventual get good. absolutely not the case.

[spurraider21]

Heck, even if the guy doesn't pan out as a WR, you can always turn him into a defensive back or, worst case scenario, a ST specialist. You can't ever go wrong drafting speed.

"Skill positions" in the NFL are so fucking overrated is not even funny. Catching a football or running a route isn't really all that difficult. The physical atributes of the players are a lot more important than any "technique" they can be taught.
disagree quite a bit with this.

granted, being a better athlete comes with inherent advantages. but theres a LOT of nuance in those positions. athleticism doesnt explain why trent richardson was a monumental bust while arian foster was one of the great backs until his health degraded despite being a pedestrian athlete for the position.

granted, running backs ARE generally more replaceable than any other position (and haven't shown a lot of impact in wins and losses in recent years), but thats not because its a simple position where its just a matter of finding a great athlete. it's because running backs are asked to do a lot less today as the league (and rules) have shifted towards prioritizing the passing game.

i disagree that "skill positions" dont matter. i think the importance of running back is still overstated in the old guard, but wide receivers are as important as ever.

[DAF86]

straight line running speed is far from the most important trait though... short area quickness/change of direction. body control (both in the air and on the ground to make catches in traffic). catching can only be taught so much. some guys just have more natural hands.

and theres a huge mental component to being a great wide receiver. its not just a matter of running the route in the playbook. you have the read the defender's body language and leverage, figure out what the coverage is, and make subtle rout adjustments accordingly

while you do have your freak athletes like randy moss and calvin johnson that tore it up, you also have more pedestrian athletes like jerry rice, isaac bruce, deandre hopkins, larry fitzgerald who are greats despite not being particularly fast. anquan boldin was legendarily slow but was still a monster receiver, and not just the older, slot/possession receiver he was with baltimore.

if you look at the list of wide receivers with the fastest 40 yard dash times, it doesnt necessarily correlate with greatness

the great misunderstanding of the WR position is that you can just stick a phenomenal athlete there and they'll eventual get good. absolutely not the case.

Yeah, quickness is just as important as straight line speed. The thing is, usally, the faster straight line runners are also the quicker and more agile people, tbh.

[spurraider21]

Yeah, quickness is just as important as straight line speed. The thing is, usally, the faster straight line runners are also the quicker and more agile people, tbh.
as a general trent among the population, sure. in NFL circles, not really. if you look at the guys with the top 3 cone drill times or 20 yard shuttle times, its usually not the same as the guys who finished at the top of the 40

even then, straight line speed + short area quickness, while inherently important attributes, are far from great indicators of WR success. there's a lot more nuance in route running, footwork, get-off, separation than you're willing to let on

[FrostKing]

Sure, that's important too. Not as important as speed though.
All the great little speedsters were late draft picks. Nearly every GOAT WR was early pick.....and had size.

Send Tyreek Hill to the Broncos and he's another Devin Hester

[DAF86]

All the great little speedsters were late draft picks. Nearly every GOAT WR was early pick.....and had size.

Send Tyreek Hill to the Broncos and he's another Devin Hester

Sure. Send Julio Jones to the Broncos and he becomes irrelevant too. Heck, send Jerry Rice to a mediocre team, with a shitty QB, instead of the 90's 49ers and he probably goes from "the GOAT" to not even making the HoF.

[Millennial_Messiah]

All the great little speedsters were late draft picks. Nearly every GOAT WR was early pick.....and had size.

Send Tyreek Hill to the Broncos and he's another Devin Hester

Desean Jackson (OG Tyreek Hill) was drafted in the 2nd round


John Ross was supposed to be that guy.... but... he was drafted by arguably the worst franchise in the NFL.

[spurraider21]

Desean Jackson (OG Tyreek Hill) was drafted in the 2nd round


John Ross was supposed to be that guy.... but... he was drafted by arguably the worst franchise in the NFL.
Ted Ginn
Corey Coleman

list goes on

Troy Williamson was a burner and he had great size. Still sucked

[Millennial_Messiah]

Ted Ginn
Corey Coleman

list goes on

Troy Williamson was a burner and he had great size. Still sucked

Ted Ginn has carved out a more than decent and pretty long career. As for Coleman, the entire 2016 WR draft class was a bust... him, Treadwell, Doctson, etc. Terrible class.

[spurraider21]

:lmao

1248387614547165189

[Millennial_Messiah]

:lmao

1248387614547165189

Rams gotta be rebuilding, they are ultra top heavy and they know it. They very well might be the worst team in a loaded division in 2020.

Texans on the other hand... lmfao. This Cooks fucker is basically Sammy Watkins 2.0 in that he'll have a few isolated amazing games a year but miss half the season due to some injury, every year. Texans have squandered away way too much draft capital and continued to make their roster worse. Bill O'Bummer makes Jason Garrett look good very often

[spurraider21]

Cooks is better than Watkins but his concussion issues are serious and he’s overpaid

[Millennial_Messiah]

Cooks is better than Watkins but his concussion issues are serious and he’s overpaid

Cooks is fast but a mediocre route runner and he oddly struggles against man coverage, even against mediocre CBs like the ones the Packers have (2018 mid season game). He's good at beating people deep, catching balls in the flat and wiggling around people for extra yardage, and pulls off the occasional amazing catch over the middle in double coverage against 2 safeties that are bigger than him. But he is oddly inconsistent and fell out of favor with both Brees and Brady pretty fast.

Exactly right about being overpaid. He's probably a 10m/year receiver in today's salary cap market, but no more than that.

[spurraider21]

I think he’s easily worth 12-15 if healthy but not the 20 he’s getting

[leemajors]

i find myself going a bit back and forth between lamb and jeudy. i think jeudy just has a higher floor, and is more likely to produce day 1. its why i've leaned that way

then again GM's dont make decisions based solely on who they think will be a safer rookie, and lamb definitely has the upside to become that #1, go-to receiver who you can count on for a tough catch through contact when chips are down

Personally, I would go with Lamb but I am biased having seen him run wild through UT's secondary. He also breaks a lot of tackles.

[SpursforSix]

Personally, I would go with Lamb but I am biased having seen him run wild through UT's secondary. He also breaks a lot of tackles.

I only saw a handful of UT games last season but it seemed like that secondary was always in trouble if there were multiple decent WR.

[spurraider21]

Personally, I would go with Lamb but I am biased having seen him run wild through UT's secondary. He also breaks a lot of tackles.
the YAC is really intriguing. Jeudy is also a YAC guy but more with his quickness/agility and less with tackle breaking.

they're both good fits for Gruden's offense, but the upside with Lamb's ability to go up and win contested balls might actually incentivize Carr to take more shots because he finally would have a receiver he can trust to go up and get it (aside from a tight end). Carr was more aggressive when Cooper and Crabtree were doing their thing, but neither guy was comparable to Lamb. I guess Crabtree a little but, but nowhere near as explosive

i still think that if he's there, the Raiders go grab Jalen Hurts in the 3rd round

[SpursforSix]

Cooks is fast but a mediocre route runner and he oddly struggles against man coverage, even against mediocre CBs like the ones the Packers have (2018 mid season game). He's good at beating people deep, catching balls in the flat and wiggling around people for extra yardage, and pulls off the occasional amazing catch over the middle in double coverage against 2 safeties that are bigger than him. But he is oddly inconsistent and fell out of favor with both Brees and Brady pretty fast.

Exactly right about being overpaid. He's probably a 10m/year receiver in today's salary cap market, but no more than that.

Cooks is recognized as a great route runner. And he's better than Watkins.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Cooks is recognized as a great route runner. And he's better than Watkins.
then how come he can't beat mediocre corners like Jaire Alexander, Kevin King and JC Jackson on crossing routes against man coverage? I don't get it.

Say what you want about Watkins, but he stepped up in the clutch and had a monster game with all the marbles on the line... roughly 100 yards against one of the top 10 corners in NFL history...

...can't say that about Cooks, who is 0-2 in Super Bowls, one he got KO'd out by Malcolm "Muhammad Ali" Jenkins, the other he just sucked in. Let Gilmore take his cookie on the biggest play of the game instead of going up for it like a man. Showed zero heart. I'd pass on that guy all day.

[SpursforSix]

then how come he can't beat mediocre corners like Jaire Alexander, Kevin King and JC Jackson on crossing routes against man coverage? I don't get it.

Say what you want about Watkins, but he stepped up in the clutch and had a monster game with all the marbles on the line... roughly 100 yards against one of the top 10 corners in NFL history...

...can't say that about Cooks, who is 0-2 in Super Bowls, one he got KO'd out by Malcolm "Muhammad Ali" Jenkins, the other he just sucked in. Let Gilmore take his cookie on the biggest play of the game instead of going up for it like a man. Showed zero heart. I'd pass on that guy all day.

What the fuck are you talking about??? Alexander, King, and Jackson???? Rams didn't even play the Packers or Pats this last season.
As for 2018, Cooks went 8 for 120 against the Pats.

[spurraider21]

What the fuck are you talking about??? Alexander, King, and Jackson???? Rams didn't even play the Packers or Pats this last season.
As for 2018, Cooks went 8 for 120 against the Pats.
brah ur talking the andrew, who always has the most simplistic analysis possible

"oh, 2 black fast receivers. they're probably the same thing"

[spurraider21]

but why is houston trading a second round pick for cooks and his massive contract when:

a) they traded hopkins for a second round pick
b) this draft is LOADED at WR and they should have some great options in the 2nd round

[spurraider21]

the rams are trying to do a quasi rebuild with this year being the "dead" year (they're eating huge cap hits for both Gurley and Cooks, and lost other free agents), which is the right thing to do NOW, but emblematic of all the poor decisions they had made to this point putting them in this position

oh, and they have no first round pick next year and jalen ramsey doesnt have a contract yet

[Millennial_Messiah]

brah ur talking the andrew, who always has the most simplistic analysis possible

"oh, 2 black fast receivers. they're probably the same thing"
definitely not... when guys like tyreek hill and desean jackson are game changers. Even John Brown made the Bills offense halfway decent despite a terrible QB and OL. Then you have Cooks, Watkins, John Ross, guys who are fast but not shifty/good enough route runners to be a true Z receiver, not slippery and shifty enough to be a Y / slot receiver, and of course none of those guys are X receivers.

[Millennial_Messiah]

the rams are trying to do a quasi rebuild with this year being the "dead" year (they're eating huge cap hits for both Gurley and Cooks, and lost other free agents), which is the right thing to do NOW, but emblematic of all the poor decisions they had made to this point putting them in this position

oh, and they have no first round pick next year and jalen ramsey doesnt have a contract yet
Absolutely. Especially since the 49ers and Seahawks are both top NFC/NFL contenders and Arizona should be at least an 8 or 9 win team with Murray/Hopkins if they can at least somewhat fix their dreadful O-Line this offseason and draft. The Rams are the 4th best team in a stacked division so now is the type to have a lean year or two and build for the future.

[SpursforSix]

brah ur talking the andrew, who always has the most simplistic analysis possible

"oh, 2 black fast receivers. they're probably the same thing"

I think it must be some kind of shtick because no one can be that consistently stupid. I probably only fact check about 1/30 of his posts and he's always wrong. Most of the time, I'm like..."that doesn't sound right". And when I look at the data, it never is. I should probably quit even responding. But he's just so gd'md stupid.

[spurraider21]

spurraider21's Official 2020 Mock Draft:

(link to my 2019 mock draft: https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=277725&p=9778114&viewfull=1#post9778114)

I won't be projecting any trades. The main shock here is that I don't see a natural spot for Isaiah Simmons here, except possibly the Giants or Panthers. I don't think it's a sure thing he goes as high as people think because of positional need. Assuming he does go top 10, though, that changes the Raiders first pick to a WR. Without further ado:

1 - Cincinnati Bengals - Joe Burrow, QB. No explanation needed. He checks every box imaginable except that he doesn't have a cannon like Stafford, but very few do.

2 - Washington Redskins - Chase Young, DE. Assuming they stay put at #2, he's easily the best player on the board, and the Skins won't be going QB only a year after taking Haskins. He is in the Myles Garrett tier of DE prospects. Once every few years kind of guy. This is not a deep edge class, but he is better than anybody who came out last year.

3 - Detroit Lions - Jeffrey Okudah, CB. It's not a position that ordinarily goes this high, but he is a pretty complete prospect. The Lions don't have any need for one of the big name OT's, and they really need a CB to replace Slay. I think Simmons is tempting for Patricia here, but Okudah fills a huge need.

4 - New York Giants - Andrew Thomas, OT. Honestly, I think the top 4 OT's are graded pretty similarly, and it's hard to peg what order they'll go in. Thomas is not the most athletic of the group. He and Wirfs are the best technicians, but Thomas gets the nod because he has played on the left side more. I think Simmons is the BPA, but the Giants are investing in Daniel Jones and he needs help in the worst way.

5 - Miami Dolphins - Tua Tagovailoa, QB. They really wanted Rosen to emerge, but ended up having to go back to Fitzmagic. It was worth giving up a 2 for Rosen, but he's not worth passing up on the position here. His durability concerns me more than his arm strength, but he has great ball placement and solid mobility, but he's not some scrambling dynamo like Russell Wilson. He's more reminiscent to Drew Brees than anybody when factoring height/accuracy/mobility, but I have concerns because he played with a ridiculously elite supporting cast and his first read got open nearly every time.

6 - LA Chargers - Justin Herbert, QB. I really hope this happens. The Chargers are obviously in the QB market (no, Tyrod Taylor is not a legitimate long term plan), but the dropoff after Tua is steep. Herbert has all the tools, but doesn't put it together on tape. He's like Trubisky with better size and arm strength, or Josh Allen with worse running ability. This isn't a deep QB class, but they take what's there.

7 - Carolina Panthers - Derrick Brown, DT. I think they're also very tempted to take Isaiah Simmons, who is falling because of need, not talent. They lost Gerald McCoy, Dontari Poe, and Mario Addison from their defensive line, Brown is brutally strong and provides just enough disruption in the passing game to justify being picked this high.

8 - Arizona Cardinals - Mekhi Becton, OT. Before the Hopkins trade, I would have penciled them in for a WR to help out Kyler, but now they want to give some pass protection, and take the guy with by far the most upside at the position in Becton. The Louisville Cardinal becomes an Arizona Cardinal.

9 - Jacksonville Jaguars - Tristan Wirfs, OT. While WR remains a possibility here, they are satisfied enough with DJ Chark and Dede Westbrook to justify waiting until a later pick in a deep class to add to that position. They shore up the offensive line which was a liability last year. The Jags are a legitimate Tank for Trevor contender.

10 - Cleveland Browns - Jedrick Wills, OT. The Browns are also tempted to go Simmons here, but this team was disastrous on the OL last year, particularly at tackle. Wills is the last of the "big four" tackles.

11 - New York Jets - Jerry Jeudy, WR. The Jets need a lot of help at both WR and OT, and the decision became easier after 3 straight tackles came off the board. Jeudy steps in day 1 as the preferred target for Darnold.

12 - Las Vegas Raiders - Isaiah Simmons, LB/S. The Raiders had been locked in on taking either of Jeudy or Lamb. Great talents at a position of need. The Simmons slide ends though, as the Raiders take a dynamic hybrid defensive player to combat Mahomes and the Chiefs.

13 - San Francisco 49ers - CeeDee Lamb, WR. They add another YAC monster to an offense that already includes George Kittle and Deebo Samuel. They let Emmanuel Sanders walk, and replace him with a long term WR1.

14 - Tampa Bay Bucs - Javon Kinlaw, DT. The Bucs were really hoping one of the top tier OT's fell so they could protect Brady, but the value isn't there to take Josh Jones at this point, so they take the best player on the board, a disruptive, pass rushing interior lineman to fill the void left by Gerald McCoy a year ago.

15 - Denver Broncos - Henry Ruggs, WR. While I'm not very high on Ruggs, he provides an ideal complement to the more possession based Sutton, and gives Drew Lock an explosive downfield weapon.

16 - Atlanta Falcons - CJ Henderson, CB. The Falcons have needs across their defense, but Henderson has great physical tools and is a tier ahead of any CB remaining on the board.

17 - Dallas Cowboys - K'Lavon Chaisson, DE. While this isn't particularly the biggest position of need, and the Cowboys were really hoping to land CJ Henderson to replace Byron Jones, Chaisson is the only other edge rusher in this draft worthy of a day 1 pick after Chase Young. He sits opposite Demarcus Lawrence to wreak havoc on Wentz. You dont need great cover corners if opposing QB's don't have time in the pocket.

18 - Miami Dolphins - Josh Jones, OT. Miami decides its not too early to take Josh Jones and protects Tua, their new franchise QB.

19 - Las Vegas Raiders - Kristian Fulton, CB. The Raiders decide that after Lamb/Jeudy are off the board, the next 6-7 receivers on the board are comparable enough in value to justify waiting (and perhaps trading up into the second round) for their next pick to take one. Instead, they address another glaring position of need, and take the prototypically sized Fulton who was battle tested in the SEC.

20 - Jacksonville Jaguars - Justin Jefferson, WR. After having taken an offensive lineman earlier, they take the next WR off their board, a guy who has shown he can play in the slot or outside. Jefferson looked like a possession WR in college, but he ran in the 4.4 range, giving teams hope he can become a more dangerous weapon with some development. Perhaps they give Minshew a chance to shine with a stronger OL and a new toy out on the perimeter.

21 - Philadelphia Eagles - Jalen Reagor, WR. The Eagles desperately need downfield speed on their offense, and Reagor is that guy with Ruggs off the board (I personally think Reagor is the better of the two). Their offense sputtered out after DeSean Jackson got hurt, and Reagor fits what they need perfectly.

22 - Minnesota Vikings - AJ Terrell, CB. The Vikings use the Stefon Diggs pick to replace Xavier Rhodes, and what was been a declining corner position for them, generally. Terrell had a rough championship game, but that was against an all-time college QB throwing to 2 first round caliber WR's (Chase will go top 10 next year).

23 - New England Patriots - Patrick Queen, LB. I'm not buying the Jordan Love talk for this pick. He was quite frankly not a good college QB, and I don't think BB has the patience for a guy as raw as this. Instead, they take an athletic, versatile linebacker who can run/tackle but also showed good coverage instincts and burst.

24 - New Orleans Saints - Kenneth Murray, LB. These 2 linebacker picks can be swapped, as they are similar in profile. Murray is a bit better at being physical and taking on blocks in the run game, though Queen shows a tad more pop/burst, though I think they are very close. The Saints don't have a lot of weaknesses, but they take a versatile defender who can hopefully help out against all division rivals (Falcons just traded for Hayden Hurst, the Panthers will use and abuse CMC, and even with those big time receivers, Brady still loves the short passing game).

25 - Minnesota Vikings - Yetur Gross-Matos, DE. The Vikings are tempted to go receiver here, but Zimmer will bang the table for more defense, and they need to replace Everson Griffen, even though the value here isn't outstanding.

26 - Miami Dolphins - AJ Epenesa, DE. The Dolphins use the 3rd of their picks to help out on defense. With the 2 highest paid corners in the league (Xavien Howard and Byron Jones) already in the secondary, and the two top linebackers off the board, they take a defensive linemen who was projected to go significantly higher before testing awfully at the combine.

27 - Seattle Seahawks - Ross Blacklock, DT. The Seahawks need to address their defensive front, which was good not great even with Clowney last year. There isn't much value left at edge, so they take an athletic, strong, penetrating defensive tackle.

28 - Baltimore Ravens - Michael Pittman, WR. So, the Ravens don't really have much in the way of needs... maybe they could use help at linebacker, but there aren't any worth taking here after Murray/Queen. After the resounding success that was Marquise Brown as Lamar Jackson's deep weapon, they get him another complement on the outside, with the big and fast Michael Pittman. His catch radius is big enough to give Jackson some margin for error, and his big frame allows him to win contested balls on tough third downs.

29 - Tennessee Titans - Jaylon Johnson, CB. The titans have committed to Tannehill, and they think AJ Brown is a legit WR1, which is why they don't go offense here. Instead, they shore up an underperforming CB group with a physical, instinctive CB who maybe needs to learn a bit of discipline, but has a very high ceiling and good ball skills.

30 - Green Bay Packers - Tee Higgins, WR. The Packers receivers outside of Davante Adams were a massive weakness last year, and they currently don't really have much in the way of a tight end. In comes Tee Higgins, a big slot receiver with great ball skills and good enough speed to make it at the next level.

31 - San Francisco 49ers - Xavier McKinney, S. After getting Lamb earlier, the Niners go defense here, with the versatile, do-it-all McKinney who shows good enough cover skills to play FS but also is a very sturdy tackler who can match up against TE's and play SS. He will slide in next to Jimmie Ward to complete that secondary.

32 - Kansas City Chiefs - Jeff Gladney, CB. The Chiefs are loaded on offense, and their defensive front is disruptive. However, they are very vulnerable on the back end, and they address it with Gladney, who isn't the biggest or most imposing corner, but has good coverage instincts and is aggressive on the ball. The Chiefs prioritize playmaking/turnovers above all else.

[spurraider21]

1247309364823818240

[leemajors]

spurraider21's Official 2020 Mock Draft:

(link to my 2019 mock draft: https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=277725&p=9778114&viewfull=1#post9778114)

I won't be projecting any trades. The main shock here is that I don't see a natural spot for Isaiah Simmons here, except possibly the Giants or Panthers. I don't think it's a sure thing he goes as high as people think because of positional need. Assuming he does go top 10, though, that changes the Raiders first pick to a WR. Without further ado:

1 - Cincinnati Bengals - Joe Burrow, QB. No explanation needed. He checks every box imaginable except that he doesn't have a cannon like Stafford, but very few do.

2 - Washington Redskins - Chase Young, DE. Assuming they stay put at #2, he's easily the best player on the board, and the Skins won't be going QB only a year after taking Haskins. He is in the Myles Garrett tier of DE prospects. Once every few years kind of guy. This is not a deep edge class, but he is better than anybody who came out last year.

3 - Detroit Lions - Jeffrey Okudah, CB. It's not a position that ordinarily goes this high, but he is a pretty complete prospect. The Lions don't have any need for one of the big name OT's, and they really need a CB to replace Slay. I think Simmons is tempting for Patricia here, but Okudah fills a huge need.

4 - New York Giants - Andrew Thomas, OT. Honestly, I think the top 4 OT's are graded pretty similarly, and it's hard to peg what order they'll go in. Thomas is not the most athletic of the group. He and Wirfs are the best technicians, but Thomas gets the nod because he has played on the left side more. I think Simmons is the BPA, but the Giants are investing in Daniel Jones and he needs help in the worst way.

5 - Miami Dolphins - Tua Tagovailoa, QB. They really wanted Rosen to emerge, but ended up having to go back to Fitzmagic. It was worth giving up a 2 for Rosen, but he's not worth passing up on the position here. His durability concerns me more than his arm strength, but he has great ball placement and solid mobility, but he's not some scrambling dynamo like Russell Wilson. He's more reminiscent to Drew Brees than anybody when factoring height/accuracy/mobility, but I have concerns because he played with a ridiculously elite supporting cast and his first read got open nearly every time.

6 - LA Chargers - Justin Herbert, QB. I really hope this happens. The Chargers are obviously in the QB market (no, Tyrod Taylor is not a legitimate long term plan), but the dropoff after Tua is steep. Herbert has all the tools, but doesn't put it together on tape. He's like Trubisky with better size and arm strength, or Josh Allen with worse running ability. This isn't a deep QB class, but they take what's there.

7 - Carolina Panthers - Derrick Brown, DT. I think they're also very tempted to take Isaiah Simmons, who is falling because of need, not talent. They lost Gerald McCoy, Dontari Poe, and Mario Addison from their defensive line, Brown is brutally strong and provides just enough disruption in the passing game to justify being picked this high.

8 - Arizona Cardinals - Mekhi Becton, OT. Before the Hopkins trade, I would have penciled them in for a WR to help out Kyler, but now they want to give some pass protection, and take the guy with by far the most upside at the position in Becton. The Louisville Cardinal becomes an Arizona Cardinal.

9 - Jacksonville Jaguars - Tristan Wirfs, OT. While WR remains a possibility here, they are satisfied enough with DJ Chark and Dede Westbrook to justify waiting until a later pick in a deep class to add to that position. They shore up the offensive line which was a liability last year. The Jags are a legitimate Tank for Trevor contender.

10 - Cleveland Browns - Jedrick Wills, OT. The Browns are also tempted to go Simmons here, but this team was disastrous on the OL last year, particularly at tackle. Wills is the last of the "big four" tackles.

11 - New York Jets - Jerry Jeudy, WR. The Jets need a lot of help at both WR and OT, and the decision became easier after 3 straight tackles came off the board. Jeudy steps in day 1 as the preferred target for Darnold.

12 - Las Vegas Raiders - Isaiah Simmons, LB/S. The Raiders had been locked in on taking either of Jeudy or Lamb. Great talents at a position of need. The Simmons slide ends though, as the Raiders take a dynamic hybrid defensive player to combat Mahomes and the Chiefs.

13 - San Francisco 49ers - CeeDee Lamb, WR. They add another YAC monster to an offense that already includes George Kittle and Deebo Samuel. They let Emmanuel Sanders walk, and replace him with a long term WR1.

14 - Tampa Bay Bucs - Javon Kinlaw, DT. The Bucs were really hoping one of the top tier OT's fell so they could protect Brady, but the value isn't there to take Josh Jones at this point, so they take the best player on the board, a disruptive, pass rushing interior lineman to fill the void left by Gerald McCoy a year ago.

15 - Denver Broncos - Henry Ruggs, WR. While I'm not very high on Ruggs, he provides an ideal complement to the more possession based Sutton, and gives Drew Lock an explosive downfield weapon.

16 - Atlanta Falcons - CJ Henderson, CB. The Falcons have needs across their defense, but Henderson has great physical tools and is a tier ahead of any CB remaining on the board.

17 - Dallas Cowboys - K'Lavon Chaisson, DE. While this isn't particularly the biggest position of need, and the Cowboys were really hoping to land CJ Henderson to replace Byron Jones, Chaisson is the only other edge rusher in this draft worthy of a day 1 pick after Chase Young. He sits opposite Demarcus Lawrence to wreak havoc on Wentz. You dont need great cover corners if opposing QB's don't have time in the pocket.

18 - Miami Dolphins - Josh Jones, OT. Miami decides its not too early to take Josh Jones and protects Tua, their new franchise QB.

19 - Las Vegas Raiders - Kristian Fulton, CB. The Raiders decide that after Lamb/Jeudy are off the board, the next 6-7 receivers on the board are comparable enough in value to justify waiting (and perhaps trading up into the second round) for their next pick to take one. Instead, they address another glaring position of need, and take the prototypically sized Fulton who was battle tested in the SEC.

20 - Jacksonville Jaguars - Justin Jefferson, WR. After having taken an offensive lineman earlier, they take the next WR off their board, a guy who has shown he can play in the slot or outside. Jefferson looked like a possession WR in college, but he ran in the 4.4 range, giving teams hope he can become a more dangerous weapon with some development. Perhaps they give Minshew a chance to shine with a stronger OL and a new toy out on the perimeter.

21 - Philadelphia Eagles - Jalen Reagor, WR. The Eagles desperately need downfield speed on their offense, and Reagor is that guy with Ruggs off the board (I personally think Reagor is the better of the two). Their offense sputtered out after DeSean Jackson got hurt, and Reagor fits what they need perfectly.

22 - Minnesota Vikings - AJ Terrell, CB. The Vikings use the Stefon Diggs pick to replace Xavier Rhodes, and what was been a declining corner position for them, generally. Terrell had a rough championship game, but that was against an all-time college QB throwing to 2 first round caliber WR's (Chase will go top 10 next year).

23 - New England Patriots - Patrick Queen, LB. I'm not buying the Jordan Love talk for this pick. He was quite frankly not a good college QB, and I don't think BB has the patience for a guy as raw as this. Instead, they take an athletic, versatile linebacker who can run/tackle but also showed good coverage instincts and burst.

24 - New Orleans Saints - Kenneth Murray, LB. These 2 linebacker picks can be swapped, as they are similar in profile. Murray is a bit better at being physical and taking on blocks in the run game, though Queen shows a tad more pop/burst, though I think they are very close. The Saints don't have a lot of weaknesses, but they take a versatile defender who can hopefully help out against all division rivals (Falcons just traded for Hayden Hurst, the Panthers will use and abuse CMC, and even with those big time receivers, Brady still loves the short passing game).

25 - Minnesota Vikings - Yetur Gross-Matos, DE. The Vikings are tempted to go receiver here, but Zimmer will bang the table for more defense, and they need to replace Everson Griffen, even though the value here isn't outstanding.

26 - Miami Dolphins - AJ Epenesa, DE. The Dolphins use the 3rd of their picks to help out on defense. With the 2 highest paid corners in the league (Xavien Howard and Byron Jones) already in the secondary, and the two top linebackers off the board, they take a defensive linemen who was projected to go significantly higher before testing awfully at the combine.

27 - Seattle Seahawks - Ross Blacklock, DT. The Seahawks need to address their defensive front, which was good not great even with Clowney last year. There isn't much value left at edge, so they take an athletic, strong, penetrating defensive tackle.

28 - Baltimore Ravens - Michael Pittman, WR. So, the Ravens don't really have much in the way of needs... maybe they could use help at linebacker, but there aren't any worth taking here after Murray/Queen. After the resounding success that was Marquise Brown as Lamar Jackson's deep weapon, they get him another complement on the outside, with the big and fast Michael Pittman. His catch radius is big enough to give Jackson some margin for error, and his big frame allows him to win contested balls on tough third downs.

29 - Tennessee Titans - Jaylon Johnson, CB. The titans have committed to Tannehill, and they think AJ Brown is a legit WR1, which is why they don't go offense here. Instead, they shore up an underperforming CB group with a physical, instinctive CB who maybe needs to learn a bit of discipline, but has a very high ceiling and good ball skills.

30 - Green Bay Packers - Tee Higgins, WR. The Packers receivers outside of Davante Adams were a massive weakness last year, and they currently don't really have much in the way of a tight end. In comes Tee Higgins, a big slot receiver with great ball skills and good enough speed to make it at the next level.

31 - San Francisco 49ers - Xavier McKinney, S. After getting Lamb earlier, the Niners go defense here, with the versatile, do-it-all McKinney who shows good enough cover skills to play FS but also is a very sturdy tackler who can match up against TE's and play SS. He will slide in next to Jimmie Ward to complete that secondary.

32 - Kansas City Chiefs - Jeff Gladney, CB. The Chiefs are loaded on offense, and their defensive front is disruptive. However, they are very vulnerable on the back end, and they address it with Gladney, who isn't the biggest or most imposing corner, but has good coverage instincts and is aggressive on the ball. The Chiefs prioritize playmaking/turnovers above all else.

Rumors say ATL looking to trade up to get Henderson, who is allegedly getting top 10 buzz.

[spurraider21]

Rumors say ATL looking to trade up to get Henderson, who is allegedly getting top 10 buzz.
yeah, i think both ATL and DAL will be chomping at the bit to take Henderson. some raiders beat writers think he's a legitimate option for them at 12 if the run on receivers starts earlier (jags, jets, a trade-up). i also think all things considered its pretty unlikely that simmons falls to 12, conventional logic is SOMEONE will take him, whether its the giants/panthers or a trade up. but in looking at each pick in a vacuum, i just dont think the giants will pass up on the tackle position

and if things go the way most mocks have it and the raiders come away with a receiver at 12, i think its very likely they trade back from 19 because there are 4-5 corners after henderson that are considered to be comparably graded/ranked (Fulton, Diggs, Terrell, Gladney, Johnson). makes a ton of sense to move back and still grab one from that group

i didnt want to project any trades in making a mock, though. the eagles are also rumored to want to move up to take one of the top WRs.

[Millennial_Messiah]

yeah, i think both ATL and DAL will be chomping at the bit to take Henderson. some raiders beat writers think he's a legitimate option for them at 12 if the run on receivers starts earlier (jags, jets, a trade-up). i also think all things considered its pretty unlikely that simmons falls to 12, conventional logic is SOMEONE will take him, whether its the giants/panthers or a trade up. but in looking at each pick in a vacuum, i just dont think the giants will pass up on the tackle position

and if things go the way most mocks have it and the raiders come away with a receiver at 12, i think its very likely they trade back from 19 because there are 4-5 corners after henderson that are considered to be comparably graded/ranked (Fulton, Diggs, Terrell, Gladney, Johnson). makes a ton of sense to move back and still grab one from that group

i didnt want to project any trades in making a mock, though. the eagles are also rumored to want to move up to take one of the top WRs.
I like your analysis, though admittedly it's a bit of a wishcaster homer pick since Simmons is the BPA in the draft along with Young.

As far as Simmons dropping -- you never really know, because Derwin James (similar player) dropped to 17 two years ago. If the Cowboys can somehow get him at 17 or trade say a 4th to move up a couple spaces to get him, it's a f-ing home run

[spurraider21]

I like your analysis, though admittedly it's a bit of a wishcaster homer pick since Simmons is the BPA in the draft along with Young.

As far as Simmons dropping -- you never really know, because Derwin James (similar player) dropped to 17 two years ago. If the Cowboys can somehow get him at 17 or trade say a 4th to move up a couple spaces to get him, it's a f-ing home run
probably a bit, though i also think jeudy or lamb would make great picks. i noted in the post you quoted that its unlikely simmons falls to 12... but i think the only real possible takers, barring a trade, are the giants and panthers. i think carolina is more likely to take him between those two

[Millennial_Messiah]

probably a bit, though i also think jeudy or lamb would make great picks. i noted in the post you quoted that its unlikely simmons falls to 12... but i think the only real possible takers, barring a trade, are the giants and panthers. i think carolina is more likely to take him between those two

yeah Panthers are pretty desperate on the DL as you mentioned but they are a team completely rebuilding from scratch, they don't have a long term QB either... I see the Panthers going like 2-14 next year as they really have CMC and nothing else but holes on that roster. Plus Brees and Brady in the division. Maybe they steal 2 wins from the AFC-West (Denver and LAC?) but they're lucky if they don't go winless next year with that awful roster.

I don't like taking a WR in the first round at all unless it's a generational talent with freakish size AND speed AND football skills like Julio Jones, Calvin Johnson, Jerry Rice, T.O., I think Seattle stole one of those future legends in the 2nd round last year with Metcalf but other than that I just don't see the value at WR in the first round.

This is a deep WR class and as long as you have a superior QB and OL, a 3rd round WR from this year might be just as good as Jeudy or Lamb or Ruggs. So many recent 1st round WR picks from 2015 to present that have completely flamed out and are now out of the league or just barely hanging on. I just don't like WR in the first round 98% of the time. Admittedly it's better than HB, though (lol Rams, Chargers, Cowboys, Jaguars, Giants etc).

[spurraider21]

yeah Panthers are pretty desperate on the DL as you mentioned but they are a team completely rebuilding from scratch, they don't have a long term QB either... I see the Panthers going like 2-14 next year as they really have CMC and nothing else but holes on that roster. Plus Brees and Brady in the division. Maybe they steal 2 wins from the AFC-West (Denver and LAC?) but they're lucky if they don't go winless next year with that awful roster.

I don't like taking a WR in the first round at all unless it's a generational talent with freakish size AND speed AND football skills like Julio Jones, Calvin Johnson, Jerry Rice, T.O., I think Seattle stole one of those future legends in the 2nd round last year with Metcalf but other than that I just don't see the value at WR in the first round.

This is a deep WR class and as long as you have a superior QB and OL, a 3rd round WR from this year might be just as good as Jeudy or Lamb or Ruggs. So many recent 1st round WR picks from 2015 to present that have completely flamed out and are now out of the league or just barely hanging on. I just don't like WR in the first round 98% of the time. Admittedly it's better than HB, though (lol Rams, Chargers, Cowboys, Jaguars, Giants etc).
jerry rice ran in like the 4.6 range :lol...

look at the top receivers in the league, not all of them are blazing fast like calvin/julio. michael thomas, davante adams, keenan allen, deandre hopkins, kenny golladay, cooper kupp, allen robinson, tyler boyd, devante parker, etc... formerly fitzgerald/AB/boldin/jordy nelson

as far as i'm aware, none of those people ran in the 4.4 range

i'm not saying speed is a negative attribute, and you need a baseline level of speed to be competent in the NFL, but being faster or slower by two tenths of a second over 40 yards does not make or break your success. imo 40 times are more to confirm what you've seen on tape, and not something to make a decision based off of, as in you dont go

"oh that receiver never played that good, but damn, he ran a 4.32, we better draft him!"

but if you are drafting a guy because you think he's going to be a field stretcher and then he runs a 4.6, you really have to evaluate how good his route running, body control, ability to win contested balls are because he's not just going to run past guys like desean jackson

[Millennial_Messiah]

jerry rice ran in like the 4.6 range :lol...

look at the top receivers in the league, not all of them are blazing fast like calvin/julio. michael thomas, davante adams, keenan allen, deandre hopkins, kenny golladay, cooper kupp, allen robinson, tyler boyd, devante parker, etc... formerly fitzgerald/AB/boldin/jordy nelson

as far as i'm aware, none of those people ran in the 4.4 range

i'm not saying speed is a negative attribute, and you need a baseline level of speed to be competent in the NFL, but being faster or slower by two tenths of a second over 40 yards does not make or break your success. imo 40 times are more to confirm what you've seen on tape, and not something to make a decision based off of, as in you dont go

"oh that receiver never played that good, but damn, he ran a 4.32, we better draft him!"

but if you are drafting a guy because you think he's going to be a field stretcher and then he runs a 4.6, you really have to evaluate how good his route running, body control, ability to win contested balls are because he's not just going to run past guys like desean jackson
You make some good points. As for the bolded part, that's the kind of guy you take in the 4th round or later only, like a dede westbrook ...sometimes you get lucky, like with tyreek hill and the Chiefs. But understanding the guy will be a project due to his relative lack of college production/lack of big school notoriety, and whether or not it is a hit depends on the guy's work ethic, willingness to learn the NFL and the team's system etc. and his willingness to start out as a backup and playing on special teams, returning kicks etc before the coaches gain confidence to put the guy on the field on actual snaps.

Didn't realize Rice was so slow. Wow. And Hopkins has the same exact speed as Dez Bryant, Davante Adams and Richard Sherman... not fast in today's NFL. I knew Michael Thomas was pretty slow and admittedly most of his catches are of the short to intermediate variety, he's like a hybrid tight end out there.

But back on topic, I just think drafting any WR in the 1st round who isn't a slam dunk like Calvin/Julio/TO, is an overdraft. Drafting a halfback is even worse (very low shelf life of stardom), and drafting a QB is, well... a crapshoot, but a necessary one.

[spurraider21]

You make some good points. As for the bolded part, that's the kind of guy you take in the 4th round or later only, like a dede westbrook ...sometimes you get lucky, like with tyreek hill and the Chiefs. But understanding the guy will be a project due to his relative lack of college production/lack of big school notoriety, and whether or not it is a hit depends on the guy's work ethic, willingness to learn the NFL and the team's system etc. and his willingness to start out as a backup and playing on special teams, returning kicks etc before the coaches gain confidence to put the guy on the field on actual snaps.

Didn't realize Rice was so slow. Wow. And Hopkins has the same exact speed as Dez Bryant, Davante Adams and Richard Sherman... not fast in today's NFL. I knew Michael Thomas was pretty slow and admittedly most of his catches are of the short to intermediate variety, he's like a hybrid tight end out there.

But back on topic, I just think drafting any WR in the 1st round who isn't a slam dunk like Calvin/Julio/TO, is an overdraft. Drafting a halfback is even worse (very low shelf life of stardom), and drafting a QB is, well... a crapshoot, but a necessary one.
Amari Cooper was pretty close to being a sure thing and he panned out. I think Jeudy is similar

[Millennial_Messiah]

Amari Cooper was pretty close to being a sure thing and he panned out. I think Jeudy is similar

yes but Cooper isn't a generational franchise changing WR. He's a solid tier 2 guy and a #1 WR for sure, but he's not a guy who you can pretty much count on to command double and triple teams and win games practically by himself like Julio or Megatron. Jeudy will likely be the same kind of guy. As for Ruggs, he can either turn out to be the next Desean Jackson / Tyreek Hill, or he can be another John Ross of the Bungles or Dri Archer of Pittsburgh... time will tell, those lightning fast guys are sooooo hit-or-miss in the NFL

I just think a top 10-15 pick has to be a guy you can count on to be a franchise cornerstone, to take over and win games by himself when other things aren't going right, etc... if it's not a QB then it's a violent pass rusher, a nasty do-it-all DT like Aaron Donald/JJ Watt, a shutdown corner, a swiss army knife guy like Derwin James/Kam Chancellor/(Isaiah Simmons?) or a franchise offensive tackle to protect your star QB... anything else and there's just not value there IMO.

[GAustex]

Read some press about Wonderlich scores.
Burrow scores pretty high.
Some others well...not so high

[spurraider21]

wonderlic is obsolete tbh

[GAustex]

I read Eli and Romo scored pretty good and a punter had the highest score.

[spurraider21]

I read Eli and Romo scored pretty good and a punter had the highest score.
748127735457943557

[FrostKing]

Anyone seen that ESPN commercial for the NFL Draft. Healthy Nigerian immigrant transformed into an obese footballer

[spurraider21]

1252286570977210373

[spurraider21]

1252287112147349505

1252291985144254464

[Millennial_Messiah]

Thing about Joe Burrow is the Bungles are extremely lucky that he spent half his childhood in Ohio and was mostly raised in that area, so he's fine with the location and all, but 90% of top tier QBs would hold out

[spurraider21]

1252286570977210373
:lmao

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EWEMFzHXsAEPj-I?format=png&name=small

[Millennial_Messiah]

:lmao

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EWEMFzHXsAEPj-I?format=png&name=small

so the Khan family wants Ngakoue to pay them millions of dollars in order to trade him? I don't get it? Why don't they just pay him his worth to stay there long term?

[spurraider21]

so the Khan family wants Ngakoue to pay them millions of dollars in order to trade him? I don't get it? Why don't they just pay him his worth to stay there long term?
no. they're telling him they need compensation to make a trade work, in that the other team needs to give them a good draft pick

[Millennial_Messiah]

no. they're telling him they need compensation to make a trade work, in that the other team needs to give them a good draft pick

problem is you're looking at a guy with similar skills to dee ford who wants to be traded AND paid, so you're giving up 2 compensations (both a high draft pick and a large bloated contract that will likely cost significant dead money at some point) to get back only 1 compensation (a good situation pass rusher player)... the receiving end of the trade from Jacksonville in this case would be doing bad business practice.

[spurraider21]

problem is you're looking at a guy with similar skills to dee ford who wants to be traded AND paid, so you're giving up 2 compensations (both a high draft pick and a large bloated contract that will likely cost significant dead money at some point) to get back only 1 compensation (a good situation pass rusher player)... the receiving end of the trade from Jacksonville in this case would be doing bad business practice.
yeah, that's why he's not getting moved. the Jags are expecting to get a first round pick for him, but nobody is biting.

recent history has shown teams getting burned by trading high end assets for a player also needing a monster contract... mack/ramsey have been recent blockbusters. then we saw how cheap hopkins and darius slay were. but then brandin cooks still netted a 2nd

smart teams wouldnt trade anything significant for ngakoue, but the jags arent accepting that reality

[Millennial_Messiah]

yeah, that's why he's not getting moved. the Jags are expecting to get a first round pick for him, but nobody is biting.

recent history has shown teams getting burned by trading high end assets for a player also needing a monster contract... mack/ramsey have been recent blockbusters. then we saw how cheap hopkins and darius slay were. but then brandin cooks still netted a 2nd

smart teams wouldnt trade anything significant for ngakoue, but the jags arent accepting that reality

jags should just pay him or accept a 3rd pick for him, still better than the comp pick they would get in like 2021 if they dumped him now

[spurraider21]

jags should just pay him or accept a 3rd pick for him, still better than the comp pick they would get in like 2021 if they dumped him now
they should take what they can get now.

appreciate the fact that you had cheap production for a few years from what was a third round pick and still get a draft pick back. they should be one of the tank for trevor candidates. theres little benefit to paying him franchise tag money this year for a middling team only to get a 2022 comp pick. just get the draft pick now and clear up cap space which you can roll over

yannick is a very good player but he's NOT the caliber of guy who should be setting the market (imo kinda like cooper on the WR spectrum)

[spurraider21]

jags also looking to dump fournette

cant imagine they'll find a taker for anything more than a third day pick

[spurraider21]

im becoming a believer of the denzel mims hype... i think he's a steal if he falls to the second route. he reminds me a lot of josh gordon, and not just because they both went to baylor.

he's a great athlete when it come to height/weight/speed but he's not in the julio/calvin category of freak in that they are also absurdly sharp route runners in addition to their size. but he's a long strider who still manages to separate, use his frame to create more space, and has uncanny ball skills. it's like if Kenny Golladay was much faster. baylor didnt run a pro style offense so watching most of his games, he's basically just running a vertical route tree, but even then he shows great subtlety to his game, varies his releases, attacks corners' leverages, etc.

coaches were apparently impressed with him at the senior bowl where supposedly in drills he was shredding everybody running all kinds of routes which baylor didnt ask him to run. i cant really speak to that stuff, but even based on what i've seen at baylor, he looks more refined (though less physically imposing) than DK Metcalf did last year

this class is absurdly deep... if i had to put guys in tiers

tier 1 - lamb/jeudy
tier 2 - ruggs/mims/jefferson/reagor
tier 3 - aiyuk/pittman/higgins
tier 4 - shenault/edwards/hamler/van jefferson

[Holden_Caulfield]

spurraider21's Official 2020 Mock Draft:

(link to my 2019 mock draft: https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=277725&p=9778114&viewfull=1#post9778114)

I won't be projecting any trades. The main shock here is that I don't see a natural spot for Isaiah Simmons here, except possibly the Giants or Panthers. I don't think it's a sure thing he goes as high as people think because of positional need. Assuming he does go top 10, though, that changes the Raiders first pick to a WR. Without further ado:

1 - Cincinnati Bengals - Joe Burrow, QB. No explanation needed. He checks every box imaginable except that he doesn't have a cannon like Stafford, but very few do.

2 - Washington Redskins - Chase Young, DE. Assuming they stay put at #2, he's easily the best player on the board, and the Skins won't be going QB only a year after taking Haskins. He is in the Myles Garrett tier of DE prospects. Once every few years kind of guy. This is not a deep edge class, but he is better than anybody who came out last year.

3 - Detroit Lions - Jeffrey Okudah, CB. It's not a position that ordinarily goes this high, but he is a pretty complete prospect. The Lions don't have any need for one of the big name OT's, and they really need a CB to replace Slay. I think Simmons is tempting for Patricia here, but Okudah fills a huge need.

4 - New York Giants - Andrew Thomas, OT. Honestly, I think the top 4 OT's are graded pretty similarly, and it's hard to peg what order they'll go in. Thomas is not the most athletic of the group. He and Wirfs are the best technicians, but Thomas gets the nod because he has played on the left side more. I think Simmons is the BPA, but the Giants are investing in Daniel Jones and he needs help in the worst way.

5 - Miami Dolphins - Tua Tagovailoa, QB. They really wanted Rosen to emerge, but ended up having to go back to Fitzmagic. It was worth giving up a 2 for Rosen, but he's not worth passing up on the position here. His durability concerns me more than his arm strength, but he has great ball placement and solid mobility, but he's not some scrambling dynamo like Russell Wilson. He's more reminiscent to Drew Brees than anybody when factoring height/accuracy/mobility, but I have concerns because he played with a ridiculously elite supporting cast and his first read got open nearly every time.

6 - LA Chargers - Justin Herbert, QB. I really hope this happens. The Chargers are obviously in the QB market (no, Tyrod Taylor is not a legitimate long term plan), but the dropoff after Tua is steep. Herbert has all the tools, but doesn't put it together on tape. He's like Trubisky with better size and arm strength, or Josh Allen with worse running ability. This isn't a deep QB class, but they take what's there.

7 - Carolina Panthers - Derrick Brown, DT. I think they're also very tempted to take Isaiah Simmons, who is falling because of need, not talent. They lost Gerald McCoy, Dontari Poe, and Mario Addison from their defensive line, Brown is brutally strong and provides just enough disruption in the passing game to justify being picked this high.

8 - Arizona Cardinals - Mekhi Becton, OT. Before the Hopkins trade, I would have penciled them in for a WR to help out Kyler, but now they want to give some pass protection, and take the guy with by far the most upside at the position in Becton. The Louisville Cardinal becomes an Arizona Cardinal.

9 - Jacksonville Jaguars - Tristan Wirfs, OT. While WR remains a possibility here, they are satisfied enough with DJ Chark and Dede Westbrook to justify waiting until a later pick in a deep class to add to that position. They shore up the offensive line which was a liability last year. The Jags are a legitimate Tank for Trevor contender.

10 - Cleveland Browns - Jedrick Wills, OT. The Browns are also tempted to go Simmons here, but this team was disastrous on the OL last year, particularly at tackle. Wills is the last of the "big four" tackles.

11 - New York Jets - Jerry Jeudy, WR. The Jets need a lot of help at both WR and OT, and the decision became easier after 3 straight tackles came off the board. Jeudy steps in day 1 as the preferred target for Darnold.

12 - Las Vegas Raiders - Isaiah Simmons, LB/S. The Raiders had been locked in on taking either of Jeudy or Lamb. Great talents at a position of need. The Simmons slide ends though, as the Raiders take a dynamic hybrid defensive player to combat Mahomes and the Chiefs.

13 - San Francisco 49ers - CeeDee Lamb, WR. They add another YAC monster to an offense that already includes George Kittle and Deebo Samuel. They let Emmanuel Sanders walk, and replace him with a long term WR1.

14 - Tampa Bay Bucs - Javon Kinlaw, DT. The Bucs were really hoping one of the top tier OT's fell so they could protect Brady, but the value isn't there to take Josh Jones at this point, so they take the best player on the board, a disruptive, pass rushing interior lineman to fill the void left by Gerald McCoy a year ago.

15 - Denver Broncos - Henry Ruggs, WR. While I'm not very high on Ruggs, he provides an ideal complement to the more possession based Sutton, and gives Drew Lock an explosive downfield weapon.

16 - Atlanta Falcons - CJ Henderson, CB. The Falcons have needs across their defense, but Henderson has great physical tools and is a tier ahead of any CB remaining on the board.

17 - Dallas Cowboys - K'Lavon Chaisson, DE. While this isn't particularly the biggest position of need, and the Cowboys were really hoping to land CJ Henderson to replace Byron Jones, Chaisson is the only other edge rusher in this draft worthy of a day 1 pick after Chase Young. He sits opposite Demarcus Lawrence to wreak havoc on Wentz. You dont need great cover corners if opposing QB's don't have time in the pocket.

18 - Miami Dolphins - Josh Jones, OT. Miami decides its not too early to take Josh Jones and protects Tua, their new franchise QB.

19 - Las Vegas Raiders - Kristian Fulton, CB. The Raiders decide that after Lamb/Jeudy are off the board, the next 6-7 receivers on the board are comparable enough in value to justify waiting (and perhaps trading up into the second round) for their next pick to take one. Instead, they address another glaring position of need, and take the prototypically sized Fulton who was battle tested in the SEC.

20 - Jacksonville Jaguars - Justin Jefferson, WR. After having taken an offensive lineman earlier, they take the next WR off their board, a guy who has shown he can play in the slot or outside. Jefferson looked like a possession WR in college, but he ran in the 4.4 range, giving teams hope he can become a more dangerous weapon with some development. Perhaps they give Minshew a chance to shine with a stronger OL and a new toy out on the perimeter.

21 - Philadelphia Eagles - Jalen Reagor, WR. The Eagles desperately need downfield speed on their offense, and Reagor is that guy with Ruggs off the board (I personally think Reagor is the better of the two). Their offense sputtered out after DeSean Jackson got hurt, and Reagor fits what they need perfectly.

22 - Minnesota Vikings - AJ Terrell, CB. The Vikings use the Stefon Diggs pick to replace Xavier Rhodes, and what was been a declining corner position for them, generally. Terrell had a rough championship game, but that was against an all-time college QB throwing to 2 first round caliber WR's (Chase will go top 10 next year).

23 - New England Patriots - Patrick Queen, LB. I'm not buying the Jordan Love talk for this pick. He was quite frankly not a good college QB, and I don't think BB has the patience for a guy as raw as this. Instead, they take an athletic, versatile linebacker who can run/tackle but also showed good coverage instincts and burst.

24 - New Orleans Saints - Kenneth Murray, LB. These 2 linebacker picks can be swapped, as they are similar in profile. Murray is a bit better at being physical and taking on blocks in the run game, though Queen shows a tad more pop/burst, though I think they are very close. The Saints don't have a lot of weaknesses, but they take a versatile defender who can hopefully help out against all division rivals (Falcons just traded for Hayden Hurst, the Panthers will use and abuse CMC, and even with those big time receivers, Brady still loves the short passing game).

25 - Minnesota Vikings - Yetur Gross-Matos, DE. The Vikings are tempted to go receiver here, but Zimmer will bang the table for more defense, and they need to replace Everson Griffen, even though the value here isn't outstanding.

26 - Miami Dolphins - AJ Epenesa, DE. The Dolphins use the 3rd of their picks to help out on defense. With the 2 highest paid corners in the league (Xavien Howard and Byron Jones) already in the secondary, and the two top linebackers off the board, they take a defensive linemen who was projected to go significantly higher before testing awfully at the combine.

27 - Seattle Seahawks - Ross Blacklock, DT. The Seahawks need to address their defensive front, which was good not great even with Clowney last year. There isn't much value left at edge, so they take an athletic, strong, penetrating defensive tackle.

28 - Baltimore Ravens - Michael Pittman, WR. So, the Ravens don't really have much in the way of needs... maybe they could use help at linebacker, but there aren't any worth taking here after Murray/Queen. After the resounding success that was Marquise Brown as Lamar Jackson's deep weapon, they get him another complement on the outside, with the big and fast Michael Pittman. His catch radius is big enough to give Jackson some margin for error, and his big frame allows him to win contested balls on tough third downs.

29 - Tennessee Titans - Jaylon Johnson, CB. The titans have committed to Tannehill, and they think AJ Brown is a legit WR1, which is why they don't go offense here. Instead, they shore up an underperforming CB group with a physical, instinctive CB who maybe needs to learn a bit of discipline, but has a very high ceiling and good ball skills.

30 - Green Bay Packers - Tee Higgins, WR. The Packers receivers outside of Davante Adams were a massive weakness last year, and they currently don't really have much in the way of a tight end. In comes Tee Higgins, a big slot receiver with great ball skills and good enough speed to make it at the next level.

31 - San Francisco 49ers - Xavier McKinney, S. After getting Lamb earlier, the Niners go defense here, with the versatile, do-it-all McKinney who shows good enough cover skills to play FS but also is a very sturdy tackler who can match up against TE's and play SS. He will slide in next to Jimmie Ward to complete that secondary.

32 - Kansas City Chiefs - Jeff Gladney, CB. The Chiefs are loaded on offense, and their defensive front is disruptive. However, they are very vulnerable on the back end, and they address it with Gladney, who isn't the biggest or most imposing corner, but has good coverage instincts and is aggressive on the ball. The Chiefs prioritize playmaking/turnovers above all else.


no way simmons gets past the jags if hes even available. our lb core and safeties are very weak. if hes not available we take jeudy/lamb. dede is a slot wr and either wr would be great opposite of chark. we have young OTs who are developing atm. also we are definitely picking a CB in the 1st round. no one worth the 7th pick but at 20 should be a CB.

and fuck yannick what a crybaby. package him and 4net for anything at this point. maybe the bucs will give us the 14th pick for both

[Millennial_Messiah]

im becoming a believer of the denzel mims hype... i think he's a steal if he falls to the second route. he reminds me a lot of josh gordon, and not just because they both went to baylor.

he's a great athlete when it come to height/weight/speed but he's not in the julio/calvin category of freak in that they are also absurdly sharp route runners in addition to their size. but he's a long strider who still manages to separate, use his frame to create more space, and has uncanny ball skills. it's like if Kenny Golladay was much faster. baylor didnt run a pro style offense so watching most of his games, he's basically just running a vertical route tree, but even then he shows great subtlety to his game, varies his releases, attacks corners' leverages, etc.

coaches were apparently impressed with him at the senior bowl where supposedly in drills he was shredding everybody running all kinds of routes which baylor didnt ask him to run. i cant really speak to that stuff, but even based on what i've seen at baylor, he looks more refined (though less physically imposing) than DK Metcalf did last year

this class is absurdly deep... if i had to put guys in tiers

tier 1 - lamb/jeudy
tier 2 - ruggs/mims/jefferson/reagor
tier 3 - aiyuk/pittman/higgins
tier 4 - shenault/edwards/hamler/van jefferson
Idk I think Metcalf is a sure fire HOFer if he stays healthy. Especially considering who his QB is. Metcalf was running near perfect routes and making insane catches by playoff time, and he was a god in the Eagles playoff game.

[Millennial_Messiah]

jags also looking to dump fournette

cant imagine they'll find a taker for anything more than a third day pick

I guess the saving grace about Fournette is that he's still cheap for another year or two.. but he hasn't stayed healthy since his rookie season

Just imagine where the Jags would be today if they had drafted Mahomes instead of making the cardinal sin everyone already knew about by drafting a HB #4 overall.

Mahomes + that 2017 sacksonville defense would have been like playing madden on easy mode

[Millennial_Messiah]

they should take what they can get now.

appreciate the fact that you had cheap production for a few years from what was a third round pick and still get a draft pick back. they should be one of the tank for trevor candidates. theres little benefit to paying him franchise tag money this year for a middling team only to get a 2022 comp pick. just get the draft pick now and clear up cap space which you can roll over

yannick is a very good player but he's NOT the caliber of guy who should be setting the market (imo kinda like cooper on the WR spectrum)
I agree, but I don't think there's anyone stopping Carolina in that regard. Carolina has by far the worst roster in the league talent-wise and it isn't even close. They also just overhauled their coaching staff. And, they play in a division with Brady, Brees and Julio Jones.

Then again, if Prescott holds out like Leveon Bell, the Cowboys could be in the mix if they're forced to start Cooper Rush and then go through a 2015 like parade of retreads that all suck

[spurraider21]

no way simmons gets past the jags if hes even available. our lb core and safeties are very weak. if hes not available we take jeudy/lamb. dede is a slot wr and either wr would be great opposite of chark. we have young OTs who are developing atm. also we are definitely picking a CB in the 1st round. no one worth the 7th pick but at 20 should be a CB.

and fuck yannick what a crybaby. package him and 4net for anything at this point. maybe the bucs will give us the 14th pick for both
:tu

i think CJ Henderson is also a legitimate option for the Jags as well. WR is a possibility, but i cant imagine thats the priority. they've gotta replace Cam Robinson... who do they have in-house to replace him?

[SpursforSix]

Idk I think Metcalf is a sure fire HOFer if he stays healthy. Especially considering who his QB is. Metcalf was running near perfect routes and making insane catches by playoff time, and he was a god in the Eagles playoff game.

What's your metric that backs up "near perfect routes"?

[Millennial_Messiah]

What's your metric that backs up "near perfect routes"?

There's no metric for that, obviously it's subjective. But early on in the season it looked like he was confusing Wilson on things like comeback vs curl routes etc, later on it looked like he ran routes that made sense vs the coverage and was almost always open. Wilson missed him a few times and he had a couple drops midseason otherwise his stats would have been pretty gaudy.

[SpursforSix]

There's no metric for that, obviously it's subjective. But early on in the season it looked like he was confusing Wilson on things like comeback vs curl routes etc, later on it looked like he ran routes that made sense vs the coverage and was almost always open. Wilson missed him a few times and he had a couple drops midseason otherwise his stats would have been pretty gaudy.

That's not subjective. There are metrics that are widely accepted to grade out a WR's route running ability.

But you confirmed my suspicion. Your comment was pretty much based on whatever plays you happened to see.

[spurraider21]

i didnt see anything from metcalf that made me think he's a remarkable route runner. but he did show great tracking skills and ball skills, along with a QB who throws a great deep ball and can buy time for downfield separation. we knew metcalf had those traits coming in, and he was able to shine because he got drafted to a team that made use of those limited (albeit useful) skills.

a lot of what happens with young WR's is the situation they land in. metcalf would have looked like shit with the Jets, for example. AJ Brown didnt look very good until Mariota was replaced. even steve smith had a career revival when he left the panthers

[ace3g]

Gronk wants to join Tommy in TB

https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1252686680152322048

[spurraider21]

1252686680152322048

:lol Will Hunting
:lol mono

[spurraider21]

Gronk wants to join Tommy in TB
damn, you got me by seconds.

i know you're on top of the spurs forum but since when do you break anything in the NFL Forum :lol

[Will Hunting]

1252686680152322048

:lol Will Hunting (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=17032)
:lol mono (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=52488)
If they can get draft picks for a retired player I’m good with it. Patriots are in rebuilding mode either way.

They might as well trade Edelman to Tampa with Gronk.

[monosylab1k]

My Bucs are staaaaaaaaaaaaaaaacked :fro

[spurraider21]

If they can get draft picks for a retired player I’m good with it. Patriots are in rebuilding mode either way.

They might as well trade Edelman to Tampa with Gronk.
its true that they should commit to the rebuild... but does come off as a cucking tbh

[spurraider21]

My Bucs are staaaaaaaaaaaaaaaacked :fro
you called it

[Will Hunting]

its true that they should commit to the rebuild... but does come off as a cucking tbh
If they only get a shit draft pick for him and he plays productively then it’s a cucking to some extent. If he looks as broken down and busted as he did in 2018 then I’m not really worried about it.

Im also still skeptical because he’s clearly skimmed down a lot since retiring. Doesn’t look like an NFL ready tight end right now.

[monosylab1k]

Gronk/Edelman for Howard/2nd tbh

[spurraider21]

If they only get a shit draft pick for him and he plays productively then it’s a cucking to some extent. If he looks as broken down and busted as he did in 2018 then I’m not really worried about it.

Im also still skeptical because he’s clearly skimmed down a lot since retiring. Doesn’t look like an NFL ready tight end right now.
rapsheet said gronk has already been putting on weight in the anticipation of a comeback. he didn't look like himself in 2018, but he's still not that old. could be a marshawn lynch situation where the year out of football actually did him some good. lynch looked pretty done in seattle but then played well for the raiders

[spurraider21]

Gronk/Edelman for Howard/2nd tbh
throw in a coach swap for the lulz

tampa has a good history of trading for head coaches :lol

[SpursforSix]

If they only get a shit draft pick for him and he plays productively then it’s a cucking to some extent. If he looks as broken down and busted as he did in 2018 then I’m not really worried about it.

Im also still skeptical because he’s clearly skimmed down a lot since retiring. Doesn’t look like an NFL ready tight end right now.

I don't get that move if it happened. I get that there might be some chemistry between Brady and Gronk but by most accounts, Howard is an incredible athlete and very good pass blocker. I'm not sure that Gronk adds anything.
All this on top of what you said about the shape he's in right now.

[spurraider21]

I don't get that move if it happened. I get that there might be some chemistry between Brady and Gronk but by most accounts, Howard is an incredible athlete and very good pass blocker. I'm not sure that Gronk adds anything.
All this on top of what you said about the shape he's in right now.
there's a trust factor with Brady that can't be understated, and arians hasnt been shy about not liking Howard.

[monosylab1k]

throw in a coach swap for the lulz

tampa has a good history of trading for head coaches :lol

Patriots too tbh, although I’m assuming Gronk’s interest in football is directly tied to not dealing with Belichick anymore :lol

[Holden_Caulfield]

:tu

i think CJ Henderson is also a legitimate option for the Jags as well. WR is a possibility, but i cant imagine thats the priority. they've gotta replace Cam Robinson... who do they have in-house to replace him?
i like henderson but in a such a deep WR draft i think theyd wait until the 2nd round to address it if they go OT at 9. We lost Bouye and Ramsey at CB and we had an UDFA starting after the ramsey trade plus darqueze denard backed out of his contract agreement so we really need a CB. As for Cam Robinson he hasnt been as good since his rookie year and this is his last year on his rookie contract so they do need to address it sooner than later but we also had Jawaan Taylor in the 2nd round last year who was atrocious at RT maybe theyll slide him to LT but i understand the OT at 9 especially if theyre tanking for Lawrence. but if simmons is there vs an OT they take simmons no matter what. myles jack is not a great leader maybe simmons will be that guy. I like Jeudy/Lamb because theyd help improve our offense from day 1 especially if 4net is gone.

[Holden_Caulfield]

Gronk wants to join Tommy in TB

https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1252686680152322048
lol damn. so much for that OJ Howard hype.

[Will Hunting]

throw in a coach swap for the lulz

tampa has a good history of trading for head coaches :lol
I know you’re joking but Belichick was a substantial factor in Brady leaving New England. He’d have no interest in playing for Tampa if Belichick were there.

[Will Hunting]

Patriots too tbh, although I’m assuming Gronk’s interest in football is directly tied to not dealing with Belichick anymore :lol
Same with Brady :lol

[ace3g]

https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1252693001450782721

[Will Hunting]

Knew there was no way they could get a 2nd rounder for Gronk but was hoping for at least a 3rd.

[SpursforSix]

there's a trust factor with Brady that can't be understated, and arians hasnt been shy about not liking Howard.

I guess. But at this point, even Brate seems better than Gronk. But maybe as little as Arians uses the TE, Gronk would be fine. But with that crappy O-line, he'd need to be able to block at a decent level.

[spurraider21]

Knew there was no way they could get a 2nd rounder for Gronk but was hoping for at least a 3rd.
gronk also screwed over the pats by slow-playing his retirement, which allowed Jared Cook to go to New Orleans

[spurraider21]

I guess. But at this point, even Brate seems better than Gronk. But maybe as little as Arians uses the TE, Gronk would be fine. But with that crappy O-line, he'd need to be able to block at a decent level.
gronk has always been an elite blocker. with both gronk and brate on the field in goal line packages, that would be a pain to deal with for any defense

[Will Hunting]

gronk also screwed over the pats by slow-playing his retirement, which allowed Jared Cook to go to New Orleans
Yeah I’m still pissy about that one.

[spurraider21]

surprised OJ Howard isn't part of the trade, but in what is an abysmally poor TE class, i'm sure they can unload their choice of brate/howard pretty easily

[Will Hunting]

I guess. But at this point, even Brate seems better than Gronk. But maybe as little as Arians uses the TE, Gronk would be fine. But with that crappy O-line, he'd need to be able to block at a decent level.
I’m actually buying the idea that a year away from football re energizes Gronk.

IMO Tampa would be stupid to use him on every down. They should have him in a more situational role so his body doesn’t wear down.

[spurraider21]

I’m actually buying the idea that a year away from football re energizes Gronk.

IMO Tampa would be stupid to use him on every down. They should have him in a more situational role so his body doesn’t wear down.
maybe they actually keep all 3 TEs and rotate them

[spurraider21]

1252692317082914822

[monosylab1k]

1252692317082914822

Greatest video ever tbh :lol

[spurraider21]

1252682039620448263

now get this man a receiver

[monosylab1k]

https://i.ibb.co/54Y51GG/7-CCD5505-0-E1-F-4-FA3-BDB9-281274-C57871.jpg

[Millennial_Messiah]

https://i.ibb.co/54Y51GG/7-CCD5505-0-E1-F-4-FA3-BDB9-281274-C57871.jpg
wonder if the pats would give him to Tampa for a 3rd

Tampa doesn't really have a slot receiver. They lost humphries last offseason. That's definitely a position of need... even though Evans and Godwin are elite, they're outside WRs only.

[Millennial_Messiah]

I know you’re joking but Belichick was a substantial factor in Brady leaving New England. He’d have no interest in playing for Tampa if Belichick were there.


Patriots too tbh, although I’m assuming Gronk’s interest in football is directly tied to not dealing with Belichick anymore :lol

Plus, Bruce Arians is a top 5 coach. Underrated AF. Never backs down. Goes for it on 4th downs. Managed to win 4 (!) times in the "fortress" of Century Link field in the Russell Wilson era, out of only 7 total home losses the Seahawks suffered from 2012-2016. Made an actual bona fide star out of the corpse of pocket statue Carson Palmer, multiple times, until the wheels literally fell off. Made a top 5 offense out of Palmer, a bad Oline, and subpar offensive weapons around Fitzgerald.

[SpursforSix]

I’m actually buying the idea that a year away from football re energizes Gronk.

IMO Tampa would be stupid to use him on every down. They should have him in a more situational role so his body doesn’t wear down.

I guess that's possible. And the situational role makes more sense. It's just hard, based on how he looks now, to see him getting back out there and having to block. But maybe it's not a big deal for someone like him to get back into football shape in time.

[Millennial_Messiah]

I guess that's possible. And the situational role makes more sense. It's just hard, based on how he looks now, to see him getting back out there and having to block. But maybe it's not a big deal for someone like him to get back into football shape in time.

maybe he's a wide receiver and they move someone like godwin into the slot? hahahahaha :)

[SpursforSix]

maybe he's a wide receiver and they move someone like godwin into the slot? hahahahaha :)

Godwin already plays in the slot.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Godwin already plays in the slot.

Thought he was primarily their Z (speedy outside) receiver? Or was that Perriman? Perriman is gone. Maybe they replace him in the draft? Because that's definitely not Edelman.

[spurraider21]

Godwin already plays in the slot.
mm: impossible, he's black and fast

[Millennial_Messiah]

mm: impossible, he's black and fast

not to mention 6'1", but 4.42 isn't really ideal for the Z position either; bet they wish they hadn't traded away Desean Jackson now, but he was expensive and injury prone. Godwin's best fit probably is as a Y or a small X. He's a hybrid. But a good receiver nonetheless.

man if they draft Ruggs, he's the perfect prototype Z receiver... but they really need OL help, so if they can get a stud OT, that's probably more important.

[spurraider21]

not to mention 6'1", but 4.42 isn't really ideal for the Z position either; bet they wish they hadn't traded away Desean Jackson now, but he was expensive and injury prone. Godwin's best fit probably is as a Y or a small X. He's a hybrid. But a good receiver nonetheless.

man if they draft Ruggs, he's the perfect prototype Z receiver... but they really need OL help, so if they can get a stud OT, that's probably more important.
:lmao yeah the team with evans/godwin/gronk is so worried about letting desean jackson go

[SpursforSix]

:lmao yeah the team with evans/godwin/gronk is so worried about letting desean jackson go

You beat me to it. Not to mention Jackson played in 3 games this year.

[spurraider21]

You beat me to it. Not to mention Jackson played in 3 games this year.
amazingly consistent bad takes tbh

[Millennial_Messiah]

:lmao yeah the team with evans/godwin/gronk is so worried about letting desean jackson go
They don't have a sub 4.4, Z receiver which is critical in Arians' deep-attack scheme. They also don't have a pass catching HB which is critical in a Brady led offense... maybe TJ Logan is the guy because of his size/speed combination similar to guys like Faulk and James White?

[Millennial_Messiah]

amazingly consistent bad takes tbh

Like I said, Jackson is injury prone and expensive. But why did they let go of Perriman? He only got paid 6.5 mil for 1 year by the Jets after a solid 2019 season as mostly a deep threat decoy.

[Will Hunting]

https://i.ibb.co/54Y51GG/7-CCD5505-0-E1-F-4-FA3-BDB9-281274-C57871.jpg
:lmao

[DAF86]

i didnt see anything from metcalf that made me think he's a remarkable route runner. but he did show great tracking skills and ball skills, along with a QB who throws a great deep ball and can buy time for downfield separation. we knew metcalf had those traits coming in, and he was able to shine because he got drafted to a team that made use of those limited (albeit useful) skills.

a lot of what happens with young WR's is the situation they land in. metcalf would have looked like shit with the Jets, for example. AJ Brown didnt look very good until Mariota was replaced. even steve smith had a career revival when he left the panthers

That's true for any receiver at any point of his career though. Pair prime Jerry Rice with Tim Tebow and see if he's able to do anything.

[spurraider21]

That's true for any receiver at any point of his career though. Pair prime Jerry Rice with Tim Tebow and see if he's able to do anything.
yes and no. tebow was a historically poor passer, so i dont think its fair to use that type of outlier.

receivers aren't usually simple plug and play, day 1 elite players. they have a development curve as well, which can be slowed if not ruined by poor conditions in their early years (same with how QBs can be "ruined" under the wrong conditions).

good receivers tend to produce wherever they go. brandon marshall put up great numbers with jay cutler, matt moore, ryan fitzpatrick, all on different teams. yes you can optimize a receiver with improved QB play (randy moss) but the good ones still tend to produce wherever they are except for outlier conditions like tebow

[spurraider21]

shenault is an enigma going into the draft as well. he looks like an easy bust candidate because he's very reminiscent of cordarrelle patterson, in that he's a WR with RB ability, has good speed, but doesnt really beat corners with route running or good releases. he's a monster athlete, though, and he does have pretty good hands and has make a good number of catches through contact.

i think he'd be great on a team like the Saints/Packers, as a gadget player to complement an established passing game (basically an elite checkdown guy with some engineered touches like reverses/screens) right away. but depending on his coachability, if he can learn to run routes, he has some TO type traits with his strength and YAC ability at the position

he'd probably work on run heavy teams like the Bears/Bills, too, but i dont think those would be good spots for him to develop into an actual WR. teams that draft him hoping he can be a starting WR could be in for a world of hurt though, imo

[spurraider21]

should the Bucs be considering tossing their first (or a 2nd and another late pick) for Trent Williams?

[spurraider21]

rapsheet reporting that dolphins are looking to move up from 5 to 3... but to leapfrog the Giants and get their OT of choice. my gut still says they're going to draft a QB, but then again, i dont have any insider info.

i cant imagine that would be a good move.

a) passing up on a QB seems bizarre

b) they'd have to be REALLY sure that this particular OT is worth that much more than the other ones available

c) they'd have to be pretty confident that the Giants have come to the same evaluation


it would also make it fairly likely that Tua falls to the Chargers at 6, and Herbert would probably slide quite a bit. maybe the dolphins believe that Herbert will fall to them at 18?

[spurraider21]

i've been flagging Ruggs as an overrated/bust candidate...

there's a LOT more to being a wide receiver than running fast, and theres a lot more to being a deep threat WR than being fast. still think he can be schemed into success, but i dont think he's an easy plug and play desean jackson

1253056956404826112

[SpursforSix]

i've been flagging Ruggs as an overrated/bust candidate...

there's a LOT more to being a wide receiver than running fast, and theres a lot more to being a deep threat WR than being fast. still think he can be schemed into success, but i dont think he's an easy plug and play desean jackson

1253056956404826112

The MM checklist:
Is he black?
Is he fast?
If yes, to both, comp is Tyreek Hill.

[spurraider21]

The MM checklist:
Is he black?
Is he fast?
If yes, to both, comp is Tyreek Hill.
and he's short

there's always a chance that guys like this succeed. heck, Hill wasn't exactly a hyped prospect and he's become a star. im just worried that Ruggs has a pretty low floor considering where he is likely to be selected. a team would have to have a creative offensive scheme that could put him in positions to win. i think Kyle Shanahan would make great use of him, for instance. i'd much rather wait 10 more picks and take Jalen Reagor than take Ruggs, personally, if i'm looking for a speedy threat

[DAF86]

rapsheet reporting that dolphins are looking to move up from 5 to 3... but to leapfrog the Giants and get their OT of choice. my gut still says they're going to draft a QB, but then again, i dont have any insider info.

i cant imagine that would be a good move.

a) passing up on a QB seems bizarre

b) they'd have to be REALLY sure that this particular OT is worth that much more than the other ones available

c) they'd have to be pretty confident that the Giants have come to the same evaluation


it would also make it fairly likely that Tua falls to the Chargers at 6, and Herbert would probably slide quite a bit. maybe the dolphins believe that Herbert will fall to them at 18?

Maybe the Dolphins have no particular preference between Tua, Herbert or even Love.

[spurraider21]

Maybe the Dolphins have no particular preference between Tua, Herbert or even Love.
everybody in their FO should be fired if they have no particular preference in deciding who they think can be the face of their franchise for what they hope to be a decade plus

[Millennial_Messiah]

and he's short

there's always a chance that guys like this succeed. heck, Hill wasn't exactly a hyped prospect and he's become a star. im just worried that Ruggs has a pretty low floor considering where he is likely to be selected. a team would have to have a creative offensive scheme that could put him in positions to win. i think Kyle Shanahan would make great use of him, for instance. i'd much rather wait 10 more picks and take Jalen Reagor than take Ruggs, personally, if i'm looking for a speedy threat


i've been flagging Ruggs as an overrated/bust candidate...

there's a LOT more to being a wide receiver than running fast, and theres a lot more to being a deep threat WR than being fast. still think he can be schemed into success, but i dont think he's an easy plug and play desean jackson

1253056956404826112
Well if he's not Tyreek Hill or Desean Jackson then he's Tavon Austin or Dri Archer, basically useless on offense and only good for special teams and gadget plays.

There isn't really a middle ground.

Tavon Austin was drafted 8th overall in 2013 by St. Louis in view of becoming the next Desean Jackson, but instead became... Tavon Austin.

[spurraider21]

of course there's a middle ground. jj nelson, john brown, taylor gabriel are examples of speedsters who carved out meaningful NFL careers. you always look for the laziest analysis possible. there's always a range of outcomes.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Can't wait for tomorrow. Finally something to do/watch for the first time in what seems like a decade.

[SpursforSix]

and he's short

there's always a chance that guys like this succeed. heck, Hill wasn't exactly a hyped prospect and he's become a star. im just worried that Ruggs has a pretty low floor considering where he is likely to be selected. a team would have to have a creative offensive scheme that could put him in positions to win. i think Kyle Shanahan would make great use of him, for instance. i'd much rather wait 10 more picks and take Jalen Reagor than take Ruggs, personally, if i'm looking for a speedy threat

Funny...I almost posted the height and weight comps which are very close.

I agree 100% on you with the speed WR comment. If I wasn't very convinced about him developing into a true #1, I'd pass. Some speed WR turn out to be great all around players. But a lot of them just end up being field stretchers. Which is a need but not one that you need to waste a higher draft pick on.

[SpursforSix]

Can't wait for tomorrow. Finally something to do/watch for the first time in what seems like a decade.

100%. Even with watching things that I enjoy, I'm getting pretty burned out on streaming movies and shows.

[spurraider21]

Funny...I almost posted the height and weight comps which are very close.

I agree 100% on you with the speed WR comment. If I wasn't very convinced about him developing into a true #1, I'd pass. Some speed WR turn out to be great all around players. But a lot of them just end up being field stretchers. Which is a need but not one that you need to waste a higher draft pick on.
there is always some degree of crapshoot to the draft. nobody thought tyreek hill would be tyreek hill

[Millennial_Messiah]

there is always some degree of crapshoot to the draft. nobody thought tyreek hill would be tyreek hill

and most of the league including cincinnati thought john ross WOULD be that guy... and he turned out to be an oft injured gadget specialist 4th wr.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Merry NFL Christmas, ST. :toast

[monosylab1k]

I wonder how far the Pats will trade down tonight. Do they only go down a couple spots to pick up an extra 2024 7th rounder? Or do they give their fanbase the yearly 1st round blueballs by trading out completely to pick up a 2029 3rd rounder with conditions?

[spurraider21]

I wonder how far the Pats will trade down tonight. Do they only go down a couple spots to pick up an extra 2024 7th rounder? Or do they give their fanbase the yearly 1st round blueballs by trading out completely to pick up a 2029 3rd rounder with conditions?
1253430030673166340

[Millennial_Messiah]

I wonder how far the Pats will trade down tonight. Do they only go down a couple spots to pick up an extra 2024 7th rounder? Or do they give their fanbase the yearly 1st round blueballs by trading out completely to pick up a 2029 3rd rounder with conditions?

will lol if Belichick takes yet ANOTHER bust-y skill position player in the 1st round...

[Millennial_Messiah]

one of the mocks I saw had the Raiders picking Love with their pick number 19... stay tuned

[Millennial_Messiah]

one thing that is different about Chase Young compared to other guys he's been put in the same league with .... Myles Garrett, Clowney, DeMarcus Ware, Von Miller, etc... Young is NOT fast by any means. He's slow and he's not strong as an ox to make up for it. Only 265 pounds at 6'5". He'll need to bulk up because he isn't getting faster. Probably not a great player in Year 1, but then again, if it's the Redskins, then it's to be expected anyway.

[Millennial_Messiah]

CIAndrew @me called Tua Tagovailoa to Miami since way back in 2018 on SpursTalk. Me. I called it. ME

[spurraider21]

one of the mocks I saw had the Raiders picking Love with their pick number 19... stay tuned
there are some retarded mocks that have the raiders taking love at 19, or a linebacker at 19. ignore them.

there are rumors that the raiders are in talk with the jags for ngakoue. they better not give a day 1 pick, i'll lose my shit. makes very little sense to trade for him. if they really want an edge, just go sign clowney

[spurraider21]

BOOOOOOOOOOO

[Millennial_Messiah]

BOOOOOOOOOOO

:lol Gaptooth Strahan booing Goodell. Even though he's a media guy

[Millennial_Messiah]

OMG WOW

THE BENGALS PICKED BURREAUX BREAKING NEWSZORS

[spurraider21]

Burrow out of the way. I want some excitement/trades/surprise picks.

as for burrow, i cant envision him even having a chance at being a bust unless he spirals into drugs or some shit

[Millennial_Messiah]

deadskins did NOT trade down.

[Holden_Caulfield]

i hope the jags dont take a QB today. i need me another year of minshew mania

[Millennial_Messiah]

Burrow out of the way. I want some excitement/trades/surprise picks.

as for burrow, i cant envision him even having a chance at being a bust unless he spirals into drugs or some shit

I can. He plays for one of the worst organizations, if not the worst, in the NFL. Bad roster devoid of talent across the roster. Their best 3 players are over 30. Bad roster, bad franchise. At least he gets to play in his home state, I guess.

[Millennial_Messiah]

I wonder if the Chargers try to get the Lions or Giants pick if they really want Tu'a

[Millennial_Messiah]

So the top 2 players in the draft are getting picked in the first 2 overall and each to their relative home locality in the US.

[spurraider21]

I can. He plays for one of the worst organizations, if not the worst, in the NFL. Bad roster devoid of talent across the roster. Their best 3 players are over 30. Bad roster, bad franchise. At least he gets to play in his home state, I guess.
he has a good running back, very good receivers. and he's very talented. last year they drafted LT in the first round but he missed the season with injury, so they are effectively getting 2 first round picks.

the team might not win, but burrow is going to be good

[FrostKing]

LOL @ Haskins as your QB

[spurraider21]

burrow/young were consensus picks. now the draft starts.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Oh that's right, the Skins switched back to a 4-3 with Riverboat Ron. Otherwise, Young is an OLB all day

[spurraider21]

redskins front 4 is nuts

[spurraider21]

Oh that's right, the Skins switched back to a 4-3 with Riverboat Ron. Otherwise, Young is an OLB all day
he's a DE through and through. overpowers tackles regularly.

[Millennial_Messiah]

he has a good running back, very good receivers. and he's very talented. last year they drafted LT in the first round but he missed the season with injury, so they are effectively getting 2 first round picks.

the team might not win, but burrow is going to be good

they lost (oft injured) Eifert, Green is on his last legs, and their OL is among the league's worst in general. Their Dline is old and washed up and their coach is a bum. I'm rooting for him and Mixon though. 2 good guys tbh

[spurraider21]

no trade up for Tua

[Millennial_Messiah]

redskins front 4 is nuts

Sweat isn't even a starter anymore.... now he's just a situational pass rusher. Imagine that. Young is the day one weakside starter, Kerrigan moves back to strong side

maybe they trade Sweat? I don't imagine he'll want to come off the bench, and he's too good

[spurraider21]

Sweat isn't even a starter anymore.... now he's just a situational pass rusher. Imagine that. Young is the day one weakside starter, Kerrigan moves back to strong side

maybe they trade Sweat? I don't imagine he'll want to come off the bench, and he's too good
Sweat will start. and defensive linemen rotate all the time even if he didnt

[Millennial_Messiah]

no trade up for Tua

Jeffrey O. was a slam dunk for the Lions. Maybe they have the best set of 1-2 corners in the league soon considering they have Trufant?

[FrostKing]

CB's @ #3 overall

Some franchises never change

[Millennial_Messiah]

Sweat will start. and defensive linemen rotate all the time even if he didnt

Sweat will start, over who? He had 7 sacks in limited snaps as a rookie.

maybe they trade Kerrigan? but he's too old to net more than a 4th

[spurraider21]

lions trade slay, draft okudah. upgrade, get younger, and lower salary. good stuff.

[spurraider21]

Sweat will start, over who? He had 7 sacks in limited snaps as a rookie.

maybe they trade Kerrigan? but he's too old to net more than a 4th
they're not trading any of them. they will rotate. its not like being a backup QB :lol

[Millennial_Messiah]

would like to see the Gmen take a QB to fuck things up... but they won't

Most likely they take an OT... 4 choices.

[Millennial_Messiah]

lions trade slay, draft okudah. upgrade, get younger, and lower salary. good stuff.

And the falcons are paying most of Trufant's salary. Trufant is still a top 10 corner

[spurraider21]

would like to see the Gmen take a QB to fuck things up... but they won't

Most likely they take an OT... 4 choices.
i mocked andrew thomas to them... but if they still like solder at LT, they will probably go Wirfs or Wills as those guys played RT.

[spurraider21]

And the falcons are paying most of Trufant's salary. Trufant is still a top 10 corner
nah. hes solid, not in that tier though. he really had a 1-2 year stretch as being top tier. hasn't maintained. its still a strong duo

[Millennial_Messiah]

they're not trading any of them. they will rotate. its not like being a backup QB :lol

they're also pretty cramped at DT... I'm assuming Payne and Matt I. start at DT but Allen gets tons of snaps on 2nd and 3rd downs while Payne goes off the field.

Legit 6 deep with studs/pro bowl caliber guys

[spurraider21]

they're also pretty cramped at DT... I'm assuming Payne and Matt I. start at DT but Allen gets tons of snaps on 2nd and 3rd downs while Payne goes off the field.

Legit 6 deep with studs/pro bowl caliber guys
Young - Payne - Allen - Sweat as the main 4 and like every other team in the NFL they will rotate players. stop hyperventilating over this :lol

[spurraider21]

Called it

[Millennial_Messiah]

i mocked andrew thomas to them... but if they still like solder at LT, they will probably go Wirfs or Wills as those guys played RT.
Bingo.

Thomas is a Jason Peters clone, excellent LT. They can move Solder to RT, he's been mediocre since leaving the cheatriots.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Young - Payne - Allen - Sweat as the main 4 and like every other team in the NFL they will rotate players. stop hyperventilating over this :lol

yeah but no other 4-3 team has 6 guys on the d-line who can make the pro bowl any given year.

[spurraider21]

a lot of buzz about dolphins liking herbert, but i dont buy that they will pass on Tua, even though durability is a legitimate concern. they HAVE to take at least one offensive lineman with their other first round picks

first big wildcard will be pick #6. will the chargers grab Herbert because they need a QB or will they pass up on that and take Isaiah Simmons

[Millennial_Messiah]

I called Tu'a to Miami since 2018. I called it. ME ME ME

[Millennial_Messiah]

a lot of buzz about dolphins liking herbert, but i dont buy that they will pass on Tua, even though durability is a legitimate concern

first big wildcard will be pick #6. will the chargers grab Herbert because they need a QB or will they pass up on that and take Isaiah Simmons
Simmons and Derwin James are pretty similar players IMO... the old scheme liked having a bunch of hybrid guys on the field even against the run... not sure about the new one though.

[spurraider21]

Bingo.

Thomas is a Jason Peters clone, excellent LT. They can move Solder to RT, he's been mediocre since leaving the cheatriots.
thomas played RT as a freshman, so who knows how they'll map it out. but imo solder has been trash at left and thomas is plug and play

[spurraider21]

Simmons and Derwin James are pretty similar players IMO... the old scheme liked having a bunch of hybrid guys on the field even against the run... not sure about the new one though.
it's a hell of a way to match up with the chiefs, though.

[Millennial_Messiah]

LUUUUUUUUUUUUUAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU Baby

Aloha m'fuckaz!!! :drunk

#CIAndrew #millennialMessiah #realMillennialMessiah #Andrewstrodamus

[spurraider21]

Called it

5/5 so far

Chargers, please take Herbert. Please take Herbert.

[Millennial_Messiah]

thomas played RT as a freshman, so who knows how they'll map it out. but imo solder has been trash at left and thomas is plug and play

yep. it's weird though because Solder was a top three LT on the cheatriots but he got paid and he just started sucking inexplicably.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Called it

5/5 so far

Chargers, please take Herbert. Please take Herbert.
Simmons isn't falling to 12, sorry. :lol

[spurraider21]

Simmons isn't falling to 12, sorry. :lol
panthers are most likely to take him between now and 12. i gave them derrick brown.

i mostly want chargers to take Herbert because i think he sucks and i want the Chargers to suffer for a few more years :lol

[monosylab1k]

You think Tua’s dad would have grabbed a switch and spanked his son’s ass on TV if he fell below top 5?

[phxspurfan]

First mistake, Tua at 5

[Millennial_Messiah]

it's a hell of a way to match up with the chiefs, though.

definitely the Ravens with their running scheme and all their myriad TEs... not sure about the Chiefs so much tbh, those guys aren't going to stop the Hill's and Hardman's of the world from flying past them

[monosylab1k]

yep. it's weird though because Solder was a top three LT on the cheatriots but he got paid and he just started sucking inexplicably.

Oh yeah, it’s not like a player has ever signed a big contract and then got lazy as shit. Never once happened. Clearly it was some underhanded bullshit pulled by the Patriots.

[spurraider21]

Tua is very accurate and has good pocket movement... but he's not as fast/mobile as he thinks he is. He'll get sacked a lot by NFL defenders if he tries running around.

His accuracy will translate, and his ball placement is great. But he played with 3 first round caliber WRs and great OL play. his first read was open almost every time. so thats my concern with him as the game speeds up. redshirt year might not be the worst idea. just as a passer (accuracy, etc), he has elite ability

[Millennial_Messiah]

You think Tua’s dad would have grabbed a switch and spanked his son’s ass on TV if he fell below top 5?

he would have to settle for a spam sandwich tonight instead of a baked pineapple ham with a piña colada smoothie.

[Millennial_Messiah]

First mistake, Tua at 5

no, Tua's house in Miami was already closed on back in 2018, because I called it, m'fuckaz. :toast

[phxspurfan]

Tua is very accurate and has good pocket movement... but he's not as fast/mobile as he thinks he is. He'll get sacked a lot by NFL defenders if he tries running around.

His accuracy will translate, and his ball placement is great. But he played with 3 first round caliber WRs and great OL play. his first read was open almost every time. so thats my concern with him as the game speeds up. redshirt year might not be the worst idea. just as a passer (accuracy, etc), he has elite ability

poor man's Russy then, and a glass one at that

[Millennial_Messiah]

so I called the biggest available name in sports to Miami in two straight years that ended in a zero... :wow

(let's pretend the Tua injuries last fall didn't happen)

[spurraider21]

Chargers took Herbust!

https://media.giphy.com/media/dYZuqJLDVsWMLWyIxJ/giphy.gif

also, called it. 6/6 so far.

panthers up next. i have them taking derrick brown, but simmons is also fairly likely here.

[phxspurfan]

Herbert gonna be a better QB for sure. Like another Fitzy or Winshew

[spurraider21]

poor man's Russy then, and a glass one at that
and considering russy is an elite QB, a poor mans russ would still be a good NFL qb

[monosylab1k]

How much were those people paid to pretend to be Chargers fans?

[Millennial_Messiah]

Herbert, no surprise. 6/6 captain obvious picks tbh

this is definitely not the Trubisky, Watson, Mahomes year

[Millennial_Messiah]

Herbert gonna be a better QB for sure. Like another Fitzy or Winshew

Actually Fitzpatrick is a pretty damn accurate comparison, tbh :lol

A.k.a. jeckyll and hyde gunslinger who can be Aaron Rodgers or Nate Peterman on any given day

[spurraider21]

How much were those people paid to pretend to be Chargers fans?
essential workers tbh :lol

[spurraider21]

Herbert, no surprise. 6/6 captain obvious picks tbh

this is definitely not the Trubisky, Watson, Mahomes year
show me mocks with the giants taking andrew thomas

i'll wait. very few compared to wirfs/wills/simmons

i called it. me.

[Millennial_Messiah]

wow, :wow Herbert looked BUMMED THE FUCK OUT that now he's gonna have to deal with Dean Spanos...... :lmao

[Holden_Caulfield]

pls not simmons

[Holden_Caulfield]

need simmons to fall to the jags

[spurraider21]

:lmao monosylab1k

1253490438616625157

[spurraider21]

need simmons to fall to the jags
you guys are taking some fatfuck offensive lineman and you're going to like it!

[Millennial_Messiah]

show me mocks with the giants taking andrew thomas

i'll wait. very few compared to wirfs/wills/simmons

i called it. me.
The Simmons at #4 picks in the media were retarded to begin with, made by jokers or ex-defense NFL players with a defensive bias.

Most experienced experts had an OT. Wirfs and Thomas were the guys in real consideration. Becton wasn't for sure.

[spurraider21]

Derrick Brown to Panthers.

Called it.

[FrostKing]

Tua won't stay healthy
Herbert is ceiling Mariota