Stimulus & Bailout Watch Thread

[spurraider21]

Biden may not be alone in dealing with cognitive decline, tbh.
this isn't "decline" for mitch, that has been his standard operating procedure for a decade now

[TimDunkem]

He's going to tie this to Section 230 reform and election fraud. Dems will obviously vote against and Rs will rally fake support while claiming it's all the Dems fault. Guys like koriwat will eat it up.

Mitch is fucking diabolical.

[Dirks_Finale]

this isn't "decline" for mitch, that has been his standard operating procedure for a decade now

His political instincts have been fine...until now.

[Spurminator]

His political instincts have been fine...until now.

Costing the GOP the Senate would be a huge silver lining to this but I'm not holding my breath.

[spurraider21]

warnock/ossoff need to jump on this. Perdue/Loeffler's lip service about "supporting the bill" is absolutely useless if their election is going to keep mitch as majority leader.

[ElNono]

Here comes the poison pill from Mitch...

Earlier today, Mitch McConnell blocked the motion to vote on increasing the checks to $2,000. Afterwards, he announced, in the most awkward language possible, that he wants to link the raised stimulus to... Section 230 repeal and the made-up issue of "election fraud."

McConnell on CHECKS, SECT. 230, ELECTION FRAUD: "Those are the three important subjects the President has linked together. This week the Senate will begin a process to bring these three priorities into focus."

It's not difficult to figure out what's actually happening here. McConnell does not want the larger checks going out. He's spent months trying to limit the size of any stimulus plan. So, his plan now is to "link" the issue to things that he knows will not pass in an actual vote. Basically, Section 230 (and the made up issue of election fraud) are poison pills to kill the stimulus plan.

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20201229/10211845967/mitch-mcconnell-using-section-230-repeal-as-poison-pill-to-avoid-2k-stimulus-checks.shtml

[Winehole23]

Here comes the poison pill from Mitch...

Earlier today, Mitch McConnell blocked the motion to vote on increasing the checks to $2,000. Afterwards, he announced, in the most awkward language possible, that he wants to link the raised stimulus to... Section 230 repeal and the made-up issue of "election fraud."

McConnell on CHECKS, SECT. 230, ELECTION FRAUD: "Those are the three important subjects the President has linked together. This week the Senate will begin a process to bring these three priorities into focus."

It's not difficult to figure out what's actually happening here. McConnell does not want the larger checks going out. He's spent months trying to limit the size of any stimulus plan. So, his plan now is to "link" the issue to things that he knows will not pass in an actual vote. Basically, Section 230 (and the made up issue of election fraud) are poison pills to kill the stimulus plan.

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20201229/10211845967/mitch-mcconnell-using-section-230-repeal-as-poison-pill-to-avoid-2k-stimulus-checks.shtmlcan he attach one to the other all by himself?

[ElNono]

can he attach one to the other all by himself?

No, but he can claim he won’t bring it to a vote unless the other issues are addressed.

Clearly he’s baiting Trump into the discussion so Trump does the work for him.

It’s a poison pill because the House will never pass the other two bills.

[Winehole23]

No, but he can claim he won’t bring it to a vote unless the other issues are addressed.

Clearly he’s baiting Trump into the discussion so Trump does the work for him.

It’s a poison pill because the House will never pass the other two bills.Breaking: McConnell wants to attach the $2000 bucks to a full repeal of Section 230.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EqcJNHoXYAAaCaa?format=jpg&name=small

[Winehole23]

here's the bill;

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1o8nTvG7e06ExvNTSCukA52L3GE35zKja/view

[spurraider21]

unreal

either these people are actually clueless as to what 230 is, or more likely, they're just virtue signaling to dear leader and his rabid fanbase

[ElNono]

Well, that’s not going to happen. But this is only going to work if Trump takes the bait. Unfortunately Trump is pretty dumb, so he might.

[ElNono]

The senate doesn’t initiate legislation, so that whole full repeal of Section 230 needs to come from the House.

[Winehole23]

also would establish a bipartisan commission to study the election "which shall report in ninety days"

[spurraider21]

also would establish a bipartisan commission to study the election "which shall report in ninety days"
just to placate a toddler and his cult following

[Winehole23]

unreal

either these people are actually clueless as to what 230 is, or more likely, they're just virtue signaling to dear leader and his rabid fanbasewhy not both?

1344051566827995142

[Winehole23]

just to placate a toddler and his cult followingis there any chance repealing Section 230 would so quickly become a fiasco that the new Congress would swiftly reinstate it?

in other words, might this be a decent deal in disguise, since all it adds to the $2000 checks is a toothless Congressional commission and a completely unworkable law?

[Winehole23]

interesting wrinkle: Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act is embedded in the USMCA. If the US Congress repeals it, Facebook/Google could get Mexico to sue the US, and the dispute would be settled in an extrajudicial tribunal. According to David Dayen, Section 230 is also embedded in a separate trade deal with Japan.


I first wrote about Section 230 in the USMCA in July 2018 (file:///Users/haroldmeyerson/Downloads/inthesetimes.com/working/entry/21297/tech_corporations_winning_a_major_coup_in_nafta_ne gotiations). This was the first multilateral agreement that included such a provision, which isn’t standard outside the United States. By this point Big Tech already knew that its grip in Washington was loosening, so they managed to engage in a common tactic: implanting into a trade deal what they might lose if it were stand-alone legislation. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi belatedly tried to remove the provision (https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/05/pelosi-pushes-to-keep-section-230-out-of-usmca-trade-agreement.html) from USMCA before it came to a vote last December but didn’t succeed. “There was not really a focus” on removing it, Rep. Jan Schakowsky (D-IL) told me recently.


The provision also appears in a bilateral agreement between the U.S. and Japan, and is expected to be a template for future deals.


At the time, the U.S. trade representative’s office insisted that there was an escape clause in the law, allowing countries to adopt “legitimate public policy objectives,” even if they conflict with the spirit of the trade deal. In 2018, Congress passed a carve-out to Section 230 through anti-sex trafficking legislation (https://www.dailydot.com/debug/what-is-sesta-fosta-bill/) that holds tech companies responsible for such conduct being transacted on their websites. That would be able to stand, along with other changes, if the trade office is correct.


But it’s not entirely up to USTR. If the U.S. tries to alter Section 230, Facebook or Google could sue, maintaining that the proposed change, whatever it might be, was illegitimate and violated the USMCA. The case could go to an extrajudicial tribunal or the World Trade Organization, and the U.S. could lose the case or get tied up in the courts for years.
https://prospect.org/power/section-230-fight-ended-six-months-ago-big-tech/

[Winehole23]

the $600 has been expedited, says Mnuchin

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[Winehole23]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eqb9oLzWMAgxych?format=png&name=small

[boutons_deux]

Which Texas Republicans voted against $2,000 pandemic stimulus checks requested by Trump?

While all 13 Texas Democrats in the House backed the larger payouts, only a handful of Texas Republicans did so

“Giving checks to those whose income has not been affected is an affront to those whose livelihoods have been destroyed by government, and it will not change the need to safely reopen America’s economy,” Rep. Chip Roy, R-Austin, said in a news release.

Others joining Roy in voting “no” were
Reps. Jodey Arrington of Lubbock,
Brian Babin of Woodville,
Kevin Brady of The Woodlands,
Michael Cloud of Victoria,
Michael Conaway of Midland,
Dan Crenshaw of Houston,
Louie Gohmert of Tyler,
Lance Gooden of Terrell,
Van Taylor of Plano,
Mac Thornberry of Clarendon,
Randy Weber of Friendswood and
Roger Williams of Austin.

Even some of Trump’s biggest supporters in Texas’ GOP congressional delegation didn’t support the president on both fronts.

Indeed, of the 22 Texas Republicans in the House, only Burgess voted both against the veto override and for the larger stimulus checks.

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/politics/2020/12/29/which-texas-republicans-voted-against-2000-pandemic-stimulus-checks-requested-by-trump (https://www.dallasnews.com/news/politics/2020/12/29/which-texas-republicans-voted-against-2000-pandemic-stimulus-checks-requested-by-trump)

[spurraider21]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eqdja2ZXEAASd7q?format=png&name=small

[Winehole23]

:lol

[Winehole23]

The senate doesn’t initiate legislation, so that whole full repeal of Section 230 needs to come from the House.If the Senate were somehow to pass the bill without the House first having passed it, it couldn't become law.

Presumably US Senators are all familiar with the origination clause, I wonder why they're letting McConnell bamboozle the rubes.

[Cuppycake Gumdrop]

https://twitter.com/rouell3/status/1344001983271772160?s=21

[FrostKing]

Personally don't feel stimulus checks should be released in this manner. But America is so wasteful. Better us than Pakistan etc.

[Cuppycake Gumdrop]

Personally don't feel stimulus checks should be released in this manner. But America is so wasteful. Better us than Pakistan etc.
:lmao

[FrostKing]

:lmao
Multiple passports for a Nationalist, drives you crazy while you are stranded depended dreaming huh

I packed my belongings and flew overseas before. I'll do it again. You can visit sweetie.

[Cuppycake Gumdrop]

Multiple passports for a Nationalist, drives you crazy while you are stranded depended dreaming huh

I packed my belongings and flew overseas before. I'll do it again. You can visit sweetie.
You leaving would make America a better place, so may I’ll stick around if you promise to fuck off back to Poland.

[ElNono]

You leaving would make America a better place, so may I’ll stick around if you promise to fuck off back to Poland.

Multiculturalism good for him, not for you... do as I say not as I do... etc

[spurraider21]

If the Senate were somehow to pass the bill without the House first having passed it, it couldn't become law.

Presumably US Senators are all familiar with the origination clause, I wonder why they're letting McConnell bamboozle the rubes.
The origination clause only applies to bills that raise govt revenue

[Winehole23]

The origination clause only applies to bills that raise govt revenueThis one purports to touch the IRS, Does that not count?

[spurraider21]

This one purports to touch the IRS, Does that not count?
dont know if that constitutes raising revenue or not... but either way i was mainly referring to the introduction of the moronic 230 bill as a standalone measure

[boutons_deux]

Mixed-status immigrant families now eligible for survival checks, retroactive funds under new law

Mixed-status immigrant families who were denied survival checks during the first round of federal pandemic relief this past March will be eligible for relief finally signed into law this past weekend. (https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/12/26/2004250/-With-just-hours-left-before-jobless-programs-expire-Trump-s-bill-signing-Sharpie-nowhere-in-sight)

Vox reports (https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2020/12/28/22202728/mixed-status-immigrant-eligible-stimulus-checks-covid-19-relief) that U.S. citizens previously shut out of relief (https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/5/13/1944787/-Thousands-seek-to-join-lawsuit-over-exclusion-of-mixed-status-immigrant-families-from-relief) because they filed joint taxes with an undocumented immigrant spouse are now eligible for $600 emergency checks.

“The impact is significant,” Vox reports.

“An estimated 16.7 million (https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/immigration/news/2017/03/16/427868/state-state-estimates-family-members-unauthorized-immigrants/) people live in mixed-status households nationwide,

including 8.2 million US-born or naturalized citizens.”

Additionally, the new law allows mixed-status families to retroactively receive funds they were previously denied.

While this is a hugely important win, it still denies critical relief to millions of other undocumented families who do not fit this criteria.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/12/29/2004674/-While-mixed-status-families-will-now-get-survival-checks-undocumented-workers-are-still-shut-out

This must REALLY PISS OFF you racists

[Bogie]

Multiculturalism good for him, not for you... do as I say not as I do... etc

you might have a salient gotcha point if you weren’t trying to link any sort of multiculturalist bent to a racist white nationalist.

plus he’s a liar, he’s not polish, he’s an incel living in his mother’s house.

[ElNono]

Multiculturalism should simply mean what it means, mix of multiple cultures.

I understand he would like it to mean Christian values + White vs the world, but that’s not really what it means and whether it’s been coopted is immaterial. He’s an immigrant coming to America with his Eastern Europe culture, so he’s as much of multiculturalism in America as any other immigrant...

[boutons_deux]

https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/133114806_3673863592690698_5052051269920752909_n.j pg?_nc_cat=109&ccb=2&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=YCZFwEgVQFsAX-zhz6L&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-1.xx&oh=13a8711f2e9e537043f47f8b930001c1&oe=6010E5CC

[Winehole23]

1343710933454114824

[boutons_deux]

https://scontent-dfw5-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/134768385_1132726530490273_7938759722618302308_n.j pg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=2&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=mb0kL94YV7UAX_q54x-&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-2.xx&oh=0bc873971adac96751295e6882d24899&oe=601400E2

[Winehole23]

action in the Senate today, live-tweeted by Brandi Buchman of The Courthouse News

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[dbestpro]

The GOP has made themselves look like elitist snobs. Maybe they were that way all along and Trump actually provided cover. I have no doubt that their $600 is good enough attitude will give the democrats the senate. The GOP will not take back the House in two years although it was there for the taking. This one action will damage the GOP for years to come. Pelosi gets away with her actions on COVID relief and leaves McConnell holding the bag. Pelosi just made a checkmate with one bad move by McConnell.

[Cuppycake Gumdrop]

The GOP has made themselves look like elitist snobs. Maybe they were that way all along

https://i.imgur.com/3IaBXRa.gif

[Winehole23]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EqiSZQhXIAUwf29?format=jpg&name=large

[boutons_deux]

https://scontent-dfw5-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/134314408_1132810973815162_4461665182374502383_n.j pg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=2&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=rlTUDvPDjdMAX-2VZEA&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-2.xx&oh=bae16b19416f470e1bb8a7197fe08568&oe=60148218

[Winehole23]

Dems just forfeit the last bit of leverage they have because "muh troops"

The Dems are the fucking Washington Generals.

1344654206016208896

[ElNono]

Schumer doing Schumer things... with Biden calling the shots from the WH, expect more bending over

[Winehole23]

Schumer doing Schumer things... with Biden calling the shots from the WH, expect more bending overIt's sickening. More (D)s than (R)s supported Mitch's motion. Just handed him an uncontested W.

[spurraider21]

1344673377789898756

[spurraider21]

:lmao “most liberal senator”

[ElNono]

:lmao:lmao:lmao Mitch


“Borrowing from our grandkids to do socialism for rich people is a terrible way to get help to families who actually need it,” McConnell said of an effort to boost the checks from $600 to $2,000, which is supported by President Donald Trump. “Washington Democrats took President Trump’s suggestion and skewed it so the checks would benefit even more high-earning households.”

McConnell said "socialism for rich people" four times in his speech. Sanders responded in a fiery fashion: "The majority leader helped lead this body to pass Trump's tax bill. You want to talk about socialism for the rich Mr. Majority Leader?!”

Holy shit what a fucking asshole

[Winehole23]

:lmao:lmao:lmao Mitch


“Borrowing from our grandkids to do socialism for rich people is a terrible way to get help to families who actually need it,” McConnell said of an effort to boost the checks from $600 to $2,000, which is supported by President Donald Trump. “Washington Democrats took President Trump’s suggestion and skewed it so the checks would benefit even more high-earning households.”

McConnell said "socialism for rich people" four times in his speech. Sanders responded in a fiery fashion: "The majority leader helped lead this body to pass Trump's tax bill. You want to talk about socialism for the rich Mr. Majority Leader?!”

Holy shit what a fucking assholeGot his orders from Joe "the American people don't want a handout" Biden

[ElNono]

Such bullshit and lie too.. that stimulus law specifically has cut off on benefits based on income.

It’s literally gold plated socialism for the rich via tax cuts, low money market taxation and Wall Street bailouts vs bootstrap capitalism for the poor...

[Winehole23]

Such bullshit and lie too.. that stimulus law specifically has cut off on benefits based on income.

It’s literally gold plated socialism for the rich via tax cuts, low money market taxation and Wall Street bailouts vs bootstrap capitalism for the poor...Has been the pattern for 20-25 years. It won't end well.

Climate change will only sharpen the social contradiction, probably sooner than people think.

[Trill Clinton]

1344700211252310017

[CosmicCowboy]

What exactly does it accomplish giving a couple still fully employed $4000?. I totally get making the unemployed 100% whole as long as it takes.

[CosmicCowboy]

Yall are being very Trumpish.

[baseline bum]

Someone needs to tie Schumer up and cut his balls off if they can find them

[Winehole23]

What exactly does it accomplish giving a couple still fully employed $4000?. I totally get making the unemployed 100% whole as long as it takes.Keeps millions from being evicted for starters.

[CosmicCowboy]

Keeps millions from being evicted for starters.

Why would someone that never lost their job or had their salary reduced be evicted?

[Trill Clinton]

What exactly does it accomplish giving a couple still fully employed $4000?. I totally get making the unemployed 100% whole as long as it takes.

Small business owners need the cash man

[Trill Clinton]

Crazy how when it comes to putting money in the pockets of the average American, its always a problem. But when billionaires and corporations get bailed out its quieter than a mouse pissin on cotton.

[Winehole23]

Why would someone that never lost their job or had their salary reduced be evicted?They might get sick and lose their job soon. Pandemic is on, economic wreckage is still piling up.

We've got what, 1.5-2 million new cases per week?

[boutons_deux]

the cutoff income of $75K seems high for $600/week.

I would prefer a bigger payment to unemployed for longer time.

Weird shit from Munchkin and Repugs. Making sure their upper income voters get paid.

[Winehole23]

Also, lots of people who did lose their jobs got way behind on rent.

Eviction moratoriums didn't stop shit in Mississippi, desperate landlords will continue to put people to the curb.

[Dirks_Finale]

What exactly does it accomplish giving a couple still fully employed $4000?. I totally get making the unemployed 100% whole as long as it takes.

I thought $1200 was adequate and more realistic.

$600 is insulting, tbh. Minority leader Mitch seems more likely now.

[Winehole23]

the Democrats' main job of work after getting power, is to impose austerity after Republicans have looted the Treasury and wrecked the economy.

Every damn time.

This is a list of the fuckers who voted for cloture on the CASH Act. The list of (R)s who voted for it is shorter.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EqlLGi0W4AAViND?format=png&name=small

[boutons_deux]

https://scontent-dfw5-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/134905174_1135161123580147_83593344077958734_n.jpg ?_nc_cat=1&ccb=2&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=Ri0ElSonCq4AX97MVNB&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-2.xx&oh=3045f1e70a0a08d5161280c472d0fec8&oe=60122D08

[boutons_deux]

the Democrats' main job of work after getting power, is to impose austerity after Republicans have looted the Treasury and wrecked the economy.

Every damn time.

This is a list of the fuckers who voted for cloture on the CASH Act. The list of (R)s who voted for it is shorter.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EqlLGi0W4AAViND?format=png&name=small

just another reason why America is fucked and unfuckable

"Who Ya Gonna Call?"

nobody

And I bet every Dem there has net worth of $100Ks, if not $Ms, gold plated health care and great retirement, aka, the plutocracy

[CosmicCowboy]

Don't get me wrong. I am totally sympathetic to those that have lost their jobs and businesses due to the pandemic. I just think relief should be directly targeted to them instead of blanket vote buying by sending $4000 checks to couples that haven't been affected and don't need it.

[CosmicCowboy]

https://scontent-dfw5-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/134905174_1135161123580147_83593344077958734_n.jpg ?_nc_cat=1&ccb=2&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=Ri0ElSonCq4AX97MVNB&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-2.xx&oh=3045f1e70a0a08d5161280c472d0fec8&oe=60122D08

Boots, why do you deserve a check for $2000?

[spurraider21]

Don't get me wrong. I am totally sympathetic to those that have lost their jobs and businesses due to the pandemic. I just think relief should be directly targeted to them instead of blanket vote buying by sending $4000 checks to couples that haven't been affected and don't need it.
there is a degree of means testing to it

[CosmicCowboy]

It's a stimulus check not unemployment. What don't you understand? And the Trump government can't do shit right. They can't review hundreds of millions of applications and get the money out in time. And has a cut off base for the poor and middle class who are more hurt by covid. :lol

Why does the "economy" need to be stimulated? The problem is not demand. Its there. Most that got the last check either added to savings or paid down debt. They didnt "stimulate" the economy. The relief should be directly targeted to those that have actually been hurt by the covid lockdowns.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Why does the "economy" need to be stimulated? The problem is not demand. Its there. Most that got the last check either added to savings or paid down debt. They didnt "stimulate" the economy. The relief should be directly targeted to those that have actually been hurt by the covid lockdowns.

According to the census most was paid on rent food and similar items.

[CosmicCowboy]

there is a degree of means testing to it

Based on their 2019 tax return? :LOL

A couple making 150K gets a $4000 check even if they are making 150K again in 2020. That's not means testing, thats vote buying.

[spurraider21]

Based on their 2019 tax return? :LOL

A couple making 150K gets a $4000 check even if they are making 150K again in 2020. That's not means testing, thats vote buying.
which tax return would you prefer they use?

[spurraider21]

The economy has lost like a quarter GDP, tens of millions of people are unemployed, people aren't spending. This is to prevent austerity. Do you know what that means?
trickle up, demand-side economics

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Based on their 2019 tax return? :LOL

A couple making 150K gets a $4000 check even if they are making 150K again in 2020. That's not means testing, thats vote buying.

voters do overwhelmingly support it. Tocqueville quotes aside the cares act did help the economy significantly when it looked like we were headed towards another great depression.

[Winehole23]

which tax return would you prefer they use?He doesn't care.

Not when the 2017 tax cuts passed, not when the money bazooka got loaded last spiring for the PPP and trillions to back up the Fed lending facilities. CC expressed zero qualms about undeserving recipients then.

Ergo, he's not operating in good faith now.

[CosmicCowboy]

voters do overwhelmingly support it. Tocqueville quotes aside the cares act did help the economy significantly when it looked like we were headed towards another great depression.

Why would they not want a "free" check from the government? I get that. Im just saying the money should be more directly targeted towards those actually hurt by the pandemic. More money to those that don't need it isn't going to change covid habits. Personally, we used to eat out at nice restaurants at least six nights a week. With covid? We are having groceries delivered and eating at home. Chicken and dumplins tonight and marinating 4lb of sirloin tips for anticuchos this weekend. A "free" check isn't gonna put my happy ass in a bar or restaurant.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Why would they not want a "free" check from the government? I get that. Im just saying the money should be more directly targeted towards those actually hurt by the pandemic. More money to those that don't need it isn't going to change covid habits. Personally, we used to eat out at nice restaurants at least six nights a week. With covid? We are having groceries delivered and eating at home. Chicken and dumplins tonight and marinating 4lb of sirloin tips for anticuchos this weekend. A "free" check isn't gonna put my happy ass in a bar or restaurant.

I believe in universal basic income so I just don't agree with you fundamentally man.

[CosmicCowboy]

He doesn't care.

Not when the 2017 tax cuts passed, not when the money bazooka got loaded last spiring for the PPP and trillions to back up the Fed lending facilities. CC expressed zero qualms about undeserving recipients then.

Ergo, he's not operating in good faith now.

I get it. You want your check.

[Winehole23]

I get it. You want your check.And you don't want anybody to get it, that much is clear.

[CosmicCowboy]

I get it. You want your free check.

[CosmicCowboy]

And you don't want anybody to get it, that much is clear.

I want the people that have been hurt by the covid pandemic to be made 100% whole until we get it under control.

[Winehole23]

I get it. You want your free check.No, you're missing the point.

I didn't take the check last Spring. I'm lucky enough not to need it now.

It isn't about you and me. It's about a society and a real economy that is coming apart at the seams, and trying to limit the damage. To that end it doesn really matter if people who don't really need it get some extra scratch.

Single earners making 75,000+ won't get it, the cutoff for double income households is 150,000. Where would you draw the line?

[Winehole23]

I want the people that have been hurt by the covid pandemic to be made 100% whole until we get it under control.100%?

How do you propose we do that?

A one time $2000 check won't cut it.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

To me the goal should be helping out those in need and stimulating the economy. The means testing does leave out some people that need help this year because of various bureaucratic issues and giving the check to everyone helps the economy more.

To me the best answer is obvious.

[Trill Clinton]

1344448174421909505
https://www.thecoli.com/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/feedme.png

[ChumpDumper]

I get it. You want your free check.Would it be better if they got free golf carts?

[Winehole23]

1344448174421909505
https://www.thecoli.com/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/feedme.png

https://i.imgur.com/jqKRMd7.gif

[Winehole23]

I want the people that have been hurt by the covid pandemic to be made 100% whole until we get it under control.Well?

What's your proposal to make everyone who has been hurt by COVID-19 to be made 100% whole, until we get it under control?

This should be a good one.

[Will Hunting]

I get it. You want your free check.
Just a guess, you’d prefer another tax cut for corporations and rich people so the wealth can trickle down?

[Winehole23]

Let's be honest. If millions of people can't feed their families, you will see rioting for real.This is already the case.

If we were frenchmen, we'd already have burnt down Parliament.

[Will Hunting]

Well?

What's your proposal to make everyone who has been hurt by COVID-19 to be made 100% whole, until we get it under control?

This should be a good one.
Give rich people a tax holiday so they have more wealth that can trickle down and make those who are struggling whole!

[Neo.]

Well?

What's your proposal to make everyone who has been hurt by COVID-19 to be made 100% whole, until we get it under control?

This should be a good one.

according to some, the trick to overcome poverty is to "get a better job" rofl

[spurraider21]

Just a guess, you’d prefer another tax cut for corporations and rich people so the wealth can trickle down?
option a: more money to corporations hoping that the money will eventually reach the working class

option b: just give the money to the working class

[Neo.]

Just a guess, you’d prefer another tax cut for corporations and rich people so the wealth can trickle down?

or maybe creating some loophole where one of the richest men on earth is able to actually collect millions of dollars of tax money in behalf of the IRS while not owing a dime

[Winehole23]

according to some, the trick to overcome poverty is to "get a better job" rofl

https://www.ilr.cornell.edu/sites/default/files-d8/styles/medium_3_2/public/2020-09/COVID-19%20Payroll%20Job%20Losses%20small.png?h=f6963184&itok=Pndm785r

[Neo.]

https://www.ilr.cornell.edu/sites/default/files-d8/styles/medium_3_2/public/2020-09/COVID-19%20Payroll%20Job%20Losses%20small.png?h=f6963184&itok=Pndm785r

fake news to some tbh lol

[Will Hunting]

I like how conservatives insist on a meticulous approach to stimulus relief targeted at the middle class and are quick to find a flaw, but they’re all for a broad sweeping tax cut for people who don’t need it at all that adds trillions of dollars to the National debt.

They have zero moral high ground on fiscal responsibility after the shit sandwich that was Trump’s 2017 tax bill.

[Winehole23]

I like how conservatives insist on a meticulous approach to stimulus relief targeted at the middle class and are quick to find a flaw, but they’re all for a broad sweeping tax cut for people who don’t need it at all that adds trillions of dollars to the National debt.

They have zero moral high ground on fiscal responsibility after the shit sandwich that was Trump’s 2017 tax bill.yeah, CC emulated concern for the needy, called me a poor and disappeared in a hurry.

[Will Hunting]

The problem is not demand.
:lmao:lmao:lmao

[ElNono]

What exactly does it accomplish giving a couple still fully employed $4000?. I totally get making the unemployed 100% whole as long as it takes.

Hours has been cut everywhere. It’s not meant to be a salvation (even though it will be for some part time employees), but relief. Under your premise aid is completely unnecessary, but actual numbers bear that a lot of people are legit hurting.

[Will Hunting]

Pretty sure the guy who’s relying on food banks and an eviction moratorium to stay afloat isn’t generating the consumer demand he generated 1 year ago but I could be wrong. The real issue might be that we need more stock buybacks!

[ElNono]

Pretty sure the guy who’s relying on food banks and an eviction moratorium to stay afloat isn’t generating the consumer demand he generated 1 year ago but I could be wrong. The real issue might be that we need more stock buybacks!

Well, just ask airlines how’s the demand (an industry that did get a government handout to stay alive).

[Will Hunting]

Well, just ask airlines how’s the demand (an industry that did get a government handout to stay alive).
Or concert venues, or restaurants, or movie theatres, or cruise lines, or dry cleaners, etc.

[baseline bum]

I like how conservatives insist on a meticulous approach to stimulus relief targeted at the middle class and are quick to find a flaw, but they’re all for a broad sweeping tax cut for people who don’t need it at all that adds trillions of dollars to the National debt.

They have zero moral high ground on fiscal responsibility after the shit sandwich that was Trump’s 2017 tax bill.

All these complaints about checks for the dirty poors but no one gives a shit the airlines get $25 billion when they didn't do a god damn thing other than stock buybacks with their ten years of prosperity. Conservative economic law #1 is everything has to be filtered through the rich first.

EDIT: It was $16 billion to the airlines this time around.

[Winehole23]

:lmao:lmao:lmao

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/EntireNeighboringHoverfly-small.gif

[CosmicCowboy]

yeah, CC emulated concern for the needy, called me a poor and disappeared in a hurry.

Sorry you felt neglected. Playing mexican train dominos with a 4 year old.

[Winehole23]

Sorry you felt neglected. Playing mexican train dominos with a 4 year old.Have fun!

I'd love to hear your plan to make everyone hurt by COVID 100% whole whenever you have a chance.

Your hypothesis that there's no demand problem is also intriguing, I'd like to hear more about that too.

[CosmicCowboy]

Have fun!

I'd love to hear your plan to make everyone hurt by COVID 100% whole whenever you have a chance.

Your hypothesis that there's no demand problem is also intriguing, I'd like to hear more about that too.

Sure there is demand.

I'd love to go to a great restaurant.

See a movie.

Fly to LA, Hawaii, Cabo, Costa rica etc.

I'm not the only one.

The issue is safe supply.

[Winehole23]

Sure there is demand.

I'd love to go to a great restaurant.

See a movie.

Fly to LA, Hawaii, Cabo, Costa rica etc.

I'm not the only one.

The issue is safe supply.Beg pardon, you ain't exactly the working class.

You also might want to tell the tens of thousands of businesses that closed their doors forever this year that demand isn't a problem, I bet a few of em will be surprised to hear it.

[Cuppycake Gumdrop]

Give rich people a tax holiday so they have more wealth that can trickle down and make those who are struggling whole!
https://twitter.com/morninggloria/status/1193216293932953600?s=21

[CosmicCowboy]

Beg pardon, you ain't exactly the working class.

You also might want to tell the tens of thousands of businesses that closed their doors forever this year that demand isn't a problem, I bet a few of em will be surprised to hear it.

You are being dense.

Covid has killed them. People want their "old" life. The demand is there but covid scares them off.

[Cuppycake Gumdrop]

Sure there is demand.

I'd love to go to a great restaurant.

See a movie.

Fly to LA, Hawaii, Cabo, Costa rica etc.

I'm not the only one.

The issue is safe supply.
I know you’re a greedy narcissist asshole, but my god this is incredible.

Global pandemic, millions in financial crisis, people going hungry, but :cry CosmicCowboy’s empty beach house in Cabo is the real tragedy :cry

[Cuppycake Gumdrop]

“Why do these peasants want MORE crumbs? They have a plate of crumbs already! Just give crumbs to the peasants with no crumbs and then all the peasants have some crumbs! We all win!”

-CosmicCowboy while stuffing his face with cake

[CosmicCowboy]

I know you’re a greedy narcissist asshole, but my god this is incredible.

Global pandemic, millions in financial crisis, people going hungry, but :cry CosmicCowboy’s empty beach house in Cabo is the real tragedy :cry

Fuck you. It was an example.

Me and hundreds of millions more that have changed our life pattern to be safe are the reason those service jobs have been lost. I have explicitly said we should ne 100% supporting those people until we get the pandemic under control.

[Winehole23]

You are being dense.

Covid has killed them. People want their "old" life. The demand is there but covid scares them off.You're speaking colloquially.

If people aren't spending or can't spend because they lost their income, the demand is missing.

[ChumpDumper]

You are being dense.

Covid has killed them. People want their "old" life. The demand is there but covid scares them off.So much that the demand isn't actually there.

The problem is the supply of demand.

[Winehole23]

It's a multi-tiered bailout.

The corporate/financial sector bailout is still effective, the citizen sector bailout is delinked and moribund.

Assets>People

1344756322252840961

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You are being dense.

Covid has killed them. People want their "old" life. The demand is there but covid scares them off.

That means that covid has diminished to demand. Your right to say that without covid demand would increase but semantics doesn't change the fact that consumer spending is way way down.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Fuck you. It was an example.

Me and hundreds of millions more that have changed our life pattern to be safe are the reason those service jobs have been lost. I have explicitly said we should ne 100% supporting those people until we get the pandemic under control.

Your dealing with people that are pissed off as people who may or may not actually be conservative shitpost constantly.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

It's a multi-tiered bailout.

The corporate/financial sector bailout is still effective, the citizen sector bailout is delinked and moribund.

Assets>People

1344756322252840961

It seems that our corporate overlords understand that while we can deficit spend, we can only do so much of it over time. They are trying to keep it all for themselves.

[Will Hunting]

:lol conservative deficit hawks reaction when the tax cuts they supported get brought up:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/odRXhAhNNLOFlTkecFBcgPUkQG_B__Amvo38LPnVia2ytfuDpg NWMvSeWJKGRst1fbQN3q82MLRugZ7OffOf1p5osW2PnorozxE3 TNsBRexHLeOl4lUiDVT2NTZzZxmGDf2V4bneZhFPuj0Vj5M

[boutons_deux]

"the citizen sector bailout is delinked and moribund."

Abbott is sitting on $2B of CARES funds. TX food banks in crisis

[Winehole23]

"the citizen sector bailout is delinked and moribund."

Abbott is sitting on $2B of CARES funds. TX food banks in crisisSome states have passed laws earmarking leftover CARES Act funds for this and that, do you happen to know what Texas plans to do with the money?

[boutons_deux]

Some states have passed laws earmarking leftover CARES Act funds for this and that, do you happen to know what Texas plans to do with the money?

no, but I will guess that it could go to a Repug "enterprise fund" aka POLITICAL SLUSH fund, with lawyers sucking out their fees along the way.

[Winehole23]

:lol conservative deficit hawks reaction when the tax cuts they supported get brought up:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/odRXhAhNNLOFlTkecFBcgPUkQG_B__Amvo38LPnVia2ytfuDpg NWMvSeWJKGRst1fbQN3q82MLRugZ7OffOf1p5osW2PnorozxE3 TNsBRexHLeOl4lUiDVT2NTZzZxmGDf2V4bneZhFPuj0Vj5MNew year, same shit

1345060186994716673

[DMC]

It's a multi-tiered bailout.

The corporate/financial sector bailout is still effective, the citizen sector bailout is delinked and moribund.

Assets>People

1344756322252840961

People gain, people lose. The world still turns.

[DMC]

If you want to startup a business and be successful, make and sell ammo.

[Winehole23]

If you want to startup a business and be successful, make and sell ammo.Entrepreneurial spirit ain't the solution to everything, but I guess if you have no other tool than a hammer, the whole world starts to look like a nail.

[Winehole23]

Preventing the spread of disease and helping people get through the pandemic is a de facto public good and a basic function of government. Pretending personal ambition is an effective or meaningful solution to pandemic time is ideological mouthwash.

[DMC]

Entrepreneurial spirit ain't the solution to everything, but I guess if you have no other tool than a hammer, the whole world starts to look like a nail.

I'm guessing you run your own business, ya fuckin' hypocrite.

[Winehole23]

I'm guessing you run your own business, ya fuckin' hypocrite.:blah

[DMC]

:blah
Winehole caught with his hand in the cookie jar again.

Entrepreneurial spirit is (…) an attitude and approach to thinking that actively seeks out change, rather than waiting to adapt to change. It’s a mindset that embraces critical questioning, innovation, service and continuous improvement.

[Winehole23]

Winehole caught with his hand in the cookie jar again.

Entrepreneurial spirit is (…) an attitude and approach to thinking that actively seeks out change, rather than waiting to adapt to change. It’s a mindset that embraces critical questioning, innovation, service and continuous improvement.What cookie jar?

What inane flapdoodle. :lol

[DMC]

What cookie jar?

What inane flapdoodle. :lol

You run your own business, yes or no?

[Winehole23]

You run your own business, yes or no?No.

[Winehole23]

1334578660200886276

[DMC]

No.

So you frown on business ownership?

Oh that's right, you're a socialist. You want everything owned by the community.

[Winehole23]

So you frown on business ownership?Nope.

[DMC]

1334578660200886276

If this is a problem the hospitals should never be overrun.

[Winehole23]

If this is a problem the hospitals should never be overrun.Strawman and bullshit and libertarian patter is your whole fucking game.

It's a notably weak one.

[Winehole23]

So you frown on business ownership?

Oh that's right, you're a socialist. You want everything owned by the community.Nope, I just think the government has valid, community-facing functions, among them disease control, education and public health.

[DMC]

Nope, I just think the government has valid, community-facing functions, among them disease control, education and public health.

All those countries you listed probably have immigration policies. You could check into them. I mean, act on your convictions.

[Winehole23]

All those countries you listed probably have immigration policies. You could check into them. I mean, act on your convictions.I'm fine here, thanks.

lol love it or leave it.

Maybe a government-free utopia like Somalia or Yemen would be more to your liking, you'd be thrown back completely on own resourcefulness. A more sporting test of rugged individualism, for someone who pretends to care about it while sucking the socialistic teat of the USA.

[Winehole23]

it was over yesterday, but this seals it

1345085006662819840

[Winehole23]

silver lining: Congress overrode Trump's veto.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

it was over yesterday, but this seals it

1345085006662819840

Now the only two shots is the Democrats running the table in Georgia. Otherwise the oligarchy will ensure that all deficit spending goes to them.

[Winehole23]

Front-loaded government assistance works

1345119370952003585

[DMX7]

Front-loaded government assistance works

1345119370952003585

The fed pushed a lot of what might have gone to savings into risk assets including the stock market.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

The fed pushed a lot of what might have gone to savings into risk assets including the stock market.

we've already established that stock speculation was way down on the list of what people actually spent money on. Savings was for that matter too.

when we last discussed this it was established that number one was rent then food then essentials like toothpaste and toilet paper.

[Winehole23]

The fed pushed a lot of what might have gone to savings into risk assets including the stock market.True, for folks with extra money to invest or save, but savings went up too.

Blaming it all on the CARES Act would be short-sighted. Obama's financial sector bailout and subsequent rounds of QE, plus Fed repression of interest rates, established a decade-long trend of malinvestment in zombie capitalism and risk assets.

[Winehole23]

The genie can't be stuffed back into the bottle.


We used to think, with good reason, that globalization had defanged national governments. Presidents cowered before the bond markets. Prime ministers ignored their country’s poor but never Standard & Poor’s. Finance ministers behaved like Goldman Sachs’s knaves and the International Monetary Fund’s satraps. Media moguls, oil men, and financiers, no less than left-wing critics of globalized capitalism, agreed that governments were no longer in control.


Then the pandemic struck. Overnight, governments grew claws and bared sharpened teeth. They closed borders and grounded planes, imposed draconian curfews on our cities, shut down our theatres and museums, and forbade us from comforting our dying parents. They even did what no one thought possible before the Apocalypse: they canceled sporting events.


The first secret was thus exposed: Governments retain inexorable power. What we discovered in 2020 is that governments had been choosing not to exercise their enormous powers so that those whom globalization had enriched could exercise their own.


The second truth is one that many people suspected but were too timid to call out: the money-tree is real. Governments that proclaimed their impecunity whenever called upon to pay for a hospital here or a school there suddenly discovered oodles of cash to pay for furlough wages, nationalize railways, take over airlines, support carmakers, and even prop up gyms and hairdressers.


Those who normally protest that money does not grow on trees, that governments must let the chips fall where they may, held their tongue. Financial markets celebrated, instead of throwing a fit at the state’s spending spree.

https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/seven-secrets-revealed-by-2020-by-yanis-varoufakis-2020-12

[boutons_deux]

Repugs botched the pandemic prep and management, CARES helped (esp for BigCorp, BigFinance, wealthy), but Repugs wasted it, and now they say no more (our donors are safe and wealthier than ever, we are electorally safe, nobody can punish us).

[DMX7]

we've already established that stock speculation was way down on the list of what people actually spent money on. Savings was for that matter too.

when we last discussed this it was established that number one was rent then food then essentials like toothpaste and toilet paper.

According to your own link, 30% went to savings or paying down debt. That actually seems like a lot to me given the hundreds of billions spent. I've already stated why I don't think COVID stimulus checks are the best use of taxpayer dollars and why I think people are underreporting to the Census that number and the amount pushed into the stock market.


According to the latest survey results released today, 15.7% used their stimulus check to pay off debt and 14.1% planned to mostly save it.

https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2020/06/how-are-americans-using-their-stimulus-payments.html?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

According to your own link, 30% went to savings or paying down debt. That actually seems like a lot to me given the hundreds of billions spent. I've already stated why I don't think COVID stimulus checks are the best use of taxpayer dollars and why I think people are underreporting to the government that number and the amount pushed into the stock market.



https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2020/06/how-are-americans-using-their-stimulus-payments.html?

I don't see the problem. I imagine people accrued a ton of debt paying for food rent and essentials leading up to the stimulus check. Given that saving for the months to come to pay for food and rent and essentials makes sense too.

What I don't see is a whole lot of money being spent on stocks which would be an issue.

People don't put money into CDs and money market accounts as an investment much nowadays.

[DMX7]

I don't see the problem. I imagine people accrued a ton of debt paying for food rent and essentials leading up to the stimulus check. Given that saving for the months to come to pay for food and rent and essentials makes sense too.


What was the peak unemployment rate this year? I remember having to repeat that most people didn't lost their job due to COVID and that stimulus should be targeted to the people who actually did IMO.

But most people didn't lose their job and they likely had fewer expenses; therefore I would expect higher savings/debt repayment and if you've got extra money in your pockets it seems logical that the stock market is going to benefit when savings rates are abysmal.

[DMX7]

And poor people paying off debt, opens them up for more money per month to spend on the economy.

Except people making above $75K were more likely to actually save or repay debt with their COVID stimulus checks.


Adults in households with incomes between $75,000 and $99,999 were more likely to use their stimulus payments to pay off debt or to add to savings, compared to households overall.

Over a third of adults in those households reported that they would use the money to pay off debt or add to savings.


https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2020/06/how-are-americans-using-their-stimulus-payments.html?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

What was the peak unemployment rate this year? I remember having to repeat that most people didn't lost their job due to COVID and that stimulus should be targeted to the people who actually did IMO.

But most people didn't lose their job and they likely had fewer expenses; therefore I would expect higher savings/debt repayment and if you've got extra money in your pockets it seems logical that the stock market is going to benefit when savings rates are abysmal.

What does lose your job from covid actually mean?

Does that mean that there has to be covid in the workplace or could what? What about a company that shut down because the economies crap?

Personally I don't give a shit I believe in universal basic income. I'm not a fan of means testing.

[Winehole23]

Except people making above $75K were more likely to actually save or repay debt with their COVID stimulus checks.



https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2020/06/how-are-americans-using-their-stimulus-payments.html?I see no problem with that. Do you?

Despite all that money not being spent on goods and services the Q3-Q4 GDP recovery was robust. Personal income increased and poverty decreased in Q3. These are all unmitigated successes, no?

Doesn't reducing the level of indebtedness free up more income for spending? I'm having a hard time seeing your point/objection.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Except people making above $75K were more likely to actually save or repay debt with their COVID stimulus checks.



https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2020/06/how-are-americans-using-their-stimulus-payments.html?

I'm reading the book the power elite and in it the author describes a phenomenon in American society that results in an economic stratification.

Essentially at the bottom you have the impoverished who do not have enough money to pay for basic needs like food shelter and the like. Then you have the people that have the money to acquire basic needs but generally speaking they do not have a tremendous amount of disposable income because they buy bigger houses and better cars and go on vacation and the like. At the top you have the ultra rich where money is no object they can spend money and it really makes no difference when we are another they just keep on making more and more.

The point I'm making here is that somebody that makes $75,000 is not going to be in a position where they just have tons of disposable income and savings. That just isn't the reality in the United States. What it does mean is that they're expenses are higher.

[DMX7]

I see no problem with that. Do you?

Despite all that money not being spent on goods and services the Q3-Q4 GDP recovery was robust. Personal income increased and poverty decreased in Q3. These are all unmitigated successes, no?

It seems to me that this was largely financed with government debt which means this is not really a sustainable thing. And we will have another unforeseen disaster at some point down the the line and we'll probably just try to have the government spend our way out of it until at some point people realize the government can't borrow infinitely without major consequences.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

It seems to me that this was largely financed with government debt which means this is not really a sustainable thing. And we will have another unforeseen disaster at some point down the the line and we'll probably just try to have the government spend our way out of it until at some point people realize the government can't borrow infinitely without major consequences.

Deficit Hawks have been making that claim since the night 1900s. At no point as it ever come to pass.

When market demand for US debt diminishes severely then we can start talking up until that point it's little more than fear-mongering.

In reality taking on American debt in a market is one of the better investments in the depressed economy because interest rates are low and investments outside are few and far between.

[DMX7]

Deficit Hawks have been making that claim since the night 1900s. At no point as it ever come to pass.

When market demand for US debt diminishes severely then we can start talking up until that point it's little more than fear-mongering.

In reality taking on American debt in a market is one of the better investments in the depressed economy because interest rates are low and investments outside are few and far between.

I would argue the debt has never been this out of control... However, I totally agree that we should take on debt to avoid a depression but how much and how we spend it matter. And there has to be a limit to how many times we do it. I suspect a major crisis like this could happen again soon given how many things could trigger it that we can't foresee. And what will the response be? More debt and more debt?


It'll stop in a couple months thats for damn sure. You think this infinitely? :lmao

Look at the defense budget that was just passed. The natural state of things in our government is deficit spending and a lot of it...

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I would argue the debt has never been this out of control... However, I totally agree that we should take on debt to avoid a depression but how much and how we spend it matter. And there has to be a limit to how many times we do it. I suspect a major crisis like this could happen again soon given how many things could trigger it that we can't foresee. And what will the response be? More debt and more debt?



Look at the defense budget that was just passed. The natural state of things in our government is deficit spending and a lot of it...

I don't look at it in terms of debt good or debt bad. I look at in terms of demand for US debt in markets is high and available and going into debt will help us from spiraling into a very bad recession or depression.

The only impediment to us paying our debt or the interest associated with it has been various government shutdowns in the like which is political not economic. It is not anything approximating out of control. There is nothing indicating that we're even close to that. This is fiscal accounting not personal or business accounting.

There's certainly is no historical justification for your worries. To the contrary there's a lot of evidence that your worries are unfounded.

[DMX7]

Stimulus is not the defense budget retard. :lmao

Yeah, that's the point I'm making. The defense budget is an annual thing that adds to the deficit and thus the debt. Are you that slow? :lol

[DMX7]

We're talking about the need for a stimulus check you fucking retard. :lmao

I was talking about the debt and deficit. The stimulus checks impact both.

[CosmicCowboy]

Titan wants his check!

[DMX7]

But we weren't talking about the defense budget that is forever. We were talking about a stimulus which is finite. :lmao

My point is that the deficit spending isn't going to end with the stimulus checks. The defense budget contributes to that and that is annual. Stimulus checks for COVID may end soon but they'll be back for the next crisis and so will more debt.

[DMX7]

Titan wants his check!

Give the man stimulus checks just for his effort on this board! :hungry:

[DMX7]

You've been getting wrecked all night. :lmao

Go shine my shoes. :lol

[Winehole23]

It seems to me that this was largely financed with government debt which means this is not really a sustainable thing. And we will have another unforeseen disaster at some point down the the line and we'll probably just try to have the government spend our way out of it until at some point people realize the government can't borrow infinitely without major consequences.You deficit spend during recessions to keep the recession from wrecking your economy, this is canon.

A certain amount of deficit spending is stimulative and shouldn't be eliminated, but it makes sense to shrink it in good times so you have dry powder when the shit hits the fan again.

A government isn't like a household. It can issue currency, and that's a good thing. Pretending it is supposed to balance its books is an irrational fetish and a fundaental misunderstanding ofhow the monetary system works.

[Winehole23]

Titan wants his check!CC gnaws ankles!

[Winehole23]

damn all those greedy poors!

[DMC]

I'm fine here, thanks.

lol love it or leave it.

Maybe a government-free utopia like Somalia or Yemen would be more to your liking, you'd be thrown back completely on own resourcefulness. A more sporting test of rugged individualism, for someone who pretends to care about it while sucking the socialistic teat of the USA.

If you're going to parade other countries around like they are more desirable places to live, it makes sense you'd go there to live.

[Winehole23]

If you're going to parade other countries around like they are more desirable places to live, it makes sense you'd go there to live.:blah

[CosmicCowboy]

I mean I accrued debt during this pandemic. And I make over that. Paying down cards gives you more money to spend per month. What don't you understand? :lmao

I just find it humorous the guy allegedly making 75k + with the maxed out credit cards is expounding on economic theory.

[DMC]

:blah

"This list of countries shows how many places are better than the US"

"You should check out living there"

"DMC pls :cry"

[ChumpDumper]

Why can't we just make this place less of a shithole?

[Winehole23]

"This list of countries shows how many places are better than the US"

"You should check out living there"

"DMC pls :cry":lol

keep talking about me

[Winehole23]

Why can't we just make this place less of a shithole?DecompensatingMC, tbh.

Lost the thread, flailing at me.

[Winehole23]

I just find it humorous the guy allegedly making 75k + with the maxed out credit cards is expounding on economic theory.lol you don't understand economics.

you just flubbed "demand." :lmao

[CosmicCowboy]

lol you don't understand economics.

you just flubbed "demand." :lmao

Third wine bottle?

[DMC]

:lol

keep talking about me


DecompensatingMC, tbh.

Lost the thread, flailing at me.

Damn, can you be any more of a hypocrite?

[Winehole23]

Damn, can you be any more of a hypocrite?just keep talking about me

[Winehole23]

1345107082744369159

[boutons_deux]

"Direct payments may not be most efficient way to help people in need but"

Lady G, what's your more efficient way?

[Bogie]

lol you don't understand economics.

you just flubbed "demand." :lmao


he’s economically illiterate, it’s literally proven every time he tries to wade in with rw talking points If he wasn’t gifted through birth, he’d just be another guy that would die working in an oil field.

[Winehole23]

Third wine bottle?just getting started.

your flub was embarrassing .

[Winehole23]

"Direct payments may not be most efficient way to help people in need but"

Lady G, what's your more efficient way?



give him a break, Graham is saying the situation is so bad it doesn't really matter what the more efficient way is.

vehement agreement, another boutons benchmark :lol

[spurraider21]

1345107082744369159
it would be pretty cool if elected members of congress tasked with running the government knew what socialism actually is

too much to ask for, i know

[Stan]

Man if only this Lindsey Graham guy had a way to speak directly to Mitch McConnell to tell him this, instead of just posting to twitter.

[boutons_deux]

Lady G makes these statements AFTER he's elected.

I read that he played a lot of golf with Trash and got Trash to support $2000, but clearly has no influence with Moscow Mitch and the large majority of the Senate Repugs

[ChumpDumper]

lol you don't understand economics.

you just flubbed "demand." :lmaoHe's saying people want to want to buy things.

[Monostradamus]

https://twitter.com/christapeterso/status/1345227007831916545?s=21

[boutons_deux]

Once a Fringe Idea, the $15 Minimum Wage Is Making Big Gains

Dec. 31, 2020

The new year brings another round of increases,

nearly a decade after workers started campaigning for higher pay.

On Friday,

20 states and 32 cities and counties (https://www.nelp.org/publication/raises-from-coast-to-coast-in-2021/) will raise their minimum wage.

In 27 of these places, the pay floor will reach or exceed $15 an hour,

Biden Jr. has endorsed $15 an hour at the federal level (https://joebiden.com/empowerworkers/) and other changes sought by labor groups,

like ending the practice of a lower minimum wage for workers like restaurant workers who receive tips.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/31/business/economy/minimum-wage-15-dollar-hour.html

[boutons_deux]

Months later, more than 1 million Americans are still waiting for unemployment aid

Many jobless Americans are asked for extensive proof of their identity.

Some are told they must wait months to speak with a senior administrator about their case.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2021/01/04/unemployment-never-recevied

[Winehole23]

don't wait for a check in the mail, help your neighbor now

1346473690569928708

[boutons_deux]

How Will This Unwind?

Amid Stimulus,
Forbearance,
Eviction Bans,

Consumer Bankruptcies Dropped to Lowest in Decades.

Commercial Chapter 11 Bankruptcies Highest in Years

Weirdest Economy Ever, as 20 million people still claim unemployment benefits.

https://wolfstreet.com/2021/01/06/amid-stimulus-forbearance-eviction-bans-consumer-bankruptcies-plunged-in-2020-to-lowest-in-decades-but-commercial-chapter-11-surged-to-highest-since-2012/

[boutons_deux]

Job Cuts Almost Triple in 2020

announced job losses last month rose by 134.5%,

compared to cuts announced in December 2019.

For all of 2020, more than 2.3 million job cuts have been announced,

almost three times the 592,556 jobs lost in all of 2019.

U.S. employers announced 77,030 job cuts in December,

an increase of 19% from November’s total of 64,797 job losses.

https://247wallst.com/jobs/2021/01/07/job-cuts-almost-triple-in-2020

[boutons_deux]

https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/137205886_10158938421196668_301361526103647893_o.p ng?_nc_cat=110&ccb=2&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=IRp2L89LX4gAX8QQ0Cx&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-1.xx&oh=e54ff0653b619312109b33617d01f006&oe=601DA427

[TimDunkem]

Manchin says "absolutely not" when asked about the prospect of 2k checks.

[spurraider21]

Manchin says "absolutely not" when asked about the prospect of 2k checks.
there were some republican senators for in, including hawley

[baseline bum]

Manchin says "absolutely not" when asked about the prospect of 2k checks.

Fucking piece of shit. Half expect this pos to vote McConnell majority leader in the next senate.

[Reck]

Yeah I don’t see this as dead on arrival. There are republicans for 2000 dollars stimulus.

But even if all republicans go back on their word, I don’t think Manchin wants to be that guy who kills democrats first act as majority with a still ongoing pandemic.

[ElNono]

Fucking piece of shit. Half expect this pos to vote McConnell majority leader in the next senate.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-policy/2021/01/08/biden-stimulus-plan/

[boutons_deux]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-policy/2021/01/08/biden-stimulus-plan/

yep, Obama never had 60 in the Senate, and Biden doesn't have 50

[spurraider21]

Fucking piece of shit. Half expect this pos to vote McConnell majority leader in the next senate.
now that would be something

[Reck]

Biden must have seen what Manchin said. He's out on TV saying people need more money and not only that but also said congress needs to work on raising the minimum wage to 15 dollars. :lol

[boutons_deux]

Fucking piece of shit. Half expect this pos to vote McConnell majority leader in the next senate.

Manchin was on Fox in the past couple weeks telling Fox viewers that he would block any Dem bill that Fox's (tiny number of unelected) viewers wouldn't approve.

America is fucked and unfuckable

Coincidentally, Manchin joins Munchkin in saying No Way to $2000

[boutons_deux]

https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/135584095_10158938899636668_932644016715038058_o.p ng?_nc_cat=111&ccb=2&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=baBbxWKFc34AX-fIe0v&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-1.xx&oh=1fc5becbea07cbf12dfbeda1e0820853&oe=601C7E7C

[boutons_deux]

Wolf street

https://wolfstreet.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/US-fuel-demand-2021-01-08-gasoline.png

https://wolfstreet.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/US-fuel-demand-2021-01-08-gasoline-yoy-.png

https://wolfstreet.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/US-auto-miles-driven-2020-10-monthly-2021-01-08.png

https://wolfstreet.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/US-fuel-demand-2021-01-08-jet-fuel.png

https://wolfstreet.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/US-fuel-demand-2021-01-08-jet-fuel-yoy.png

https://wolfstreet.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/US-TSA-screenings-daily-2020-12-28-yoy-percent-change-7-day-avg-.png

[ElNono]

Sen. Manchin prefers targeted stimulus checks

West Virginia Democratic Sen. Joe Manchin walked a fine line Sunday on whether he'd support a round of stimulus checks increasing direct aid to Americans to $2,000 per person, saying he preferred more targeted relief.

"That's not a yes or no question," Manchin said on CNN's "State of the Union," when asked by host Jake Tapper whether he was on board with sending $2,000 stimulus checks to Americans who earn $75,000 or less.

"I am on board by helping people that need help, people that really can't make it, people who don't have a job, they can't put food on their table. I am in total support of helping them," Manchin said.

"Sending checks to people that basically already have a check and aren't going to be able spend that or are not going to spend it, usually are putting it in their savings account right now, that's not who we are. We have done an awful lot of that, it's time now to target where the money goes," he added.

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/01/10/manchin-prefers-targeted-stimulus-checks-457065

---

smh, this is why we can't have nice things

[boutons_deux]

Just for balance, Biden was against any stimulus checks until someone told him it could be a vote-getter. :lol

[Dirks_Finale]

Disagree with him on this. The economy is stagnated and he is just making broad assumptions that people are going to stash the cash. Vaccines are being administered and people see light at the end of the tunnel now. They will spend.

On another note, he is why I am not tripping over a Democratic slim majority in senate. :lol


Sen. Manchin prefers targeted stimulus checks

West Virginia Democratic Sen. Joe Manchin walked a fine line Sunday on whether he'd support a round of stimulus checks increasing direct aid to Americans to $2,000 per person, saying he preferred more targeted relief.

"That's not a yes or no question," Manchin said on CNN's "State of the Union," when asked by host Jake Tapper whether he was on board with sending $2,000 stimulus checks to Americans who earn $75,000 or less.

"I am on board by helping people that need help, people that really can't make it, people who don't have a job, they can't put food on their table. I am in total support of helping them," Manchin said.

"Sending checks to people that basically already have a check and aren't going to be able spend that or are not going to spend it, usually are putting it in their savings account right now, that's not who we are. We have done an awful lot of that, it's time now to target where the money goes," he added.

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/01/10/manchin-prefers-targeted-stimulus-checks-457065

---

smh, this is why we can't have nice things

[Will Hunting]

Jim Crow Joe Manchin is just positioning himself to squeeze some earmarks for West Virginia our of the next stimulus package. He and Murkowski are gonna have all kinds of bargaining power :lol

[Will Hunting]

Let them i guess.
Absolutely. Earmarks are how the senate used to build consensus and get shit done, and they really aren’t that expensive as a % of total spending. McConnell started stonewalling them in 2009 as part of a long term strategy that made it impossible for Democrats to win senate races in red state. We should absolutely bring earmarks back as a way to get Manchin/Murkowski/Collins to vote yes on shit.

[Reck]

Bernie was making the rounds on TV today as well. Saw he was talking about sending 1400 checks instead of the already established 2k. What the hell happened there. lol

[CosmicCowboy]

Bernie was making the rounds on TV today as well. Saw he was talking about sending 1400 checks instead of the already established 2k. What the hell happened there. lol

2nd grade math.. They have already sent $600. $600 + $1400 = $2000

[Reck]

2nd grade math.. They have already sent $600. $600 + $1400 = $2000

There is that. But the major consensus among dems is that the next stimulus check will be 2k from scratch.

[CosmicCowboy]

There is that. But the major consensus among dems is that the next stimulus check will be 2k from scratch.

They arent very good at math either.

[Will Hunting]

They should provide another 1400 to fulfill the $2000 promise but that’s it. Other relief should be vaccine administration, state and local help, and unemployment aid.

[baseline bum]

Jim Crow Joe Manchin is just positioning himself to squeeze some earmarks for West Virginia our of the next stimulus package. He and Murkowski are gonna have all kinds of bargaining power :lol

Win/win then. Manchin is a POS but if all the food stamps he extracts for his state get him elected again in 2024 he's useful as one vote against McConnell being majority leader.

[Will Hunting]

Win/win then. Manchin is a POS but if all the food stamps he extracts for his state get him elected again in 2024 he's useful as one vote against McConnell being majority leader.
Yeah imo it’s this simple as difficult as Manchin might be in providing the 50th vote that’s better than McConnell stopping the bill from going to the floor at all.

[DarrinS]

I got some $1600 check deposited that I don't need. I'll donate it to a worthy cause.

[Reck]

I got some $1600 check deposited that I don't need. I'll donate it to a worthy cause.

Oh you're one of those. :lol

Complaining he doesn't need the money as he pockets it.

[Monostradamus]

I got some $1600 check deposited that I don't need. I'll donate it to a worthy cause.
“Darrin’s Keystone Light Fund” isn’t a worthy cause.

[Reck]

Biden sending shots.

1348430675238678528

[boutons_deux]

600 - 1200 - 2000 "debate" is deflecting from the bullshit 300/week which where real help for unemployed Americans must be.

[baseline bum]

I thought Karrin was a high roller paying $10,000 a year in property taxes. Did he cheat on his income taxes to become eligible for those checks?

[Winehole23]

I thought Karrin was a high roller paying $10,000 a year in property taxes. Did he cheat on his income taxes to become eligible for those checks?Lies all day long, gets worse after dark.

He'll say was joking, where's your sense of humor?

[TimDunkem]

I thought Karrin was a high roller paying $10,000 a year in property taxes. Did he cheat on his income taxes to become eligible for those checks?
It's always Repugs taking those handouts...

[boutons_deux]

Stunning Brick & Mortar Meltdown, Manhattan Style:

The Collapse of Retail Rents Before & Now During the Pandemic


Store rents had already plunged, amid a surge in vacancies.

Then in the spring, the market froze;

when it thawed, rents dropped to 10-year lows.

https://wolfstreet.com/2021/01/11/brick-mortar-retail-meltdown-in-stunning-manhattan-style-years-before-during-the-pandemic/

[boutons_deux]

Trump’s Last Full Jobs Report: Economy Loses 140,000 Jobs, First Decrease Since April

Nonfarm payrolls fell by 140,000 for the month

The unemployment rate rose mildly as a result, from 6.7 percent to 6.8 percent.

The U-6 unemployment rate, which includes those who are working part-time but cannot find full-time jobs, rose from 11.7 percent to 12 percent.

“Nobody is going to be rushing to hire back more people at this stage, and certainly for leisure and hospitality.

There’s a risk jobs fall further in next month’s report because of further lockdowns.”

https://www.mediaite.com/uncategorized/trumps-last-full-jobs-report-economy-loses-140000-jobs-first-decrease-since-april/


=================

The US economy lost 140,000 jobs in December.

All of them were held by women

https://www.mediaite.com/uncategorized/trumps-last-full-jobs-report-economy-loses-140000-jobs-first-decrease-since-april/

[boutons_deux]

Clean Energy Sector Approached the New Year Down Nearly 430,000 Jobs From Pre-Pandemic Levels

Renewables employment speeds up slightly, but ends 2020 down by 12% since February


https://morningconsult.com/2021/01/13/clean-energy-jobs-report-december/

[boutons_deux]

154,000 Black Women Left The Workforce In December Alone

Since the pandemic started, all women have been hurting, but women of color most of all.

Faced with shaky job prospects across so many industries and often with children home for virtual school,

many women have simply given up on the idea of working.

All told, 2.1 million women have left the workforce since this pandemic started,

compared to nearly 1.7 million men.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/black-women-unemployment-coronavirus_n_5ffca3e2c5b66f3f796033d1

[boutons_deux]

More superfluous evidence that the economy is rigged by and for the oligarchy

The tools that rescued America's economy are mostly helping wealthy Americans



The US central bank's economic rescue efforts during the pandemic have supported America's recovery, which is turning out to be K-shaped (https://www.businessinsider.com/k-shaped-recovery-recession-worse-for-bottom-better-for-top-2020-11).
To stimulate the economy after a dramatic slowdown and stock-market crash triggered by the coronavirus pandemic, the Federal Reserve bought Treasury bonds and mortgage-backed securities, a process known as quantitative easing (https://www.businessinsider.com/what-is-quantitative-easing-qe-2014-11) that was pioneered during the 2008 Great Recession (https://www.businessinsider.com/bernanke-heres-how-qe-works-and-its-not-by-printing-money-2012-3). The Fed also kept interest rates low.
The wealthy were incentivized to invest in the stock market, and they benefited as equities recovered to record highs (https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/stock-markets-record-2020-end-virus-brexit-2020-12-1029926612) by year end.
But most Americans don't own stocks (https://www.businessinsider.com/percent-of-american-families-owning-stocks-shrinking-2016-12) and thus haven't profited from this policy. More and more are falling into poverty (https://www.businessinsider.com/how-many-americans-fell-into-poverty-during-pandemic-2020-12) and struggling to pay their bills (https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2020/09/24/economic-fallout-from-covid-19-continues-to-hit-lower-income-americans-the-hardest/#fn-29104-1).
The PPP program (https://www.businessinsider.com/ppp-aid-for-small-businesses-whats-different-this-round-2020-12) was intended to be a sort of quantitative easing for Main Street, but it hasn't helped the majority of small businesses.


https://www.businessinsider.com/what-is-quantitative-easing-americas-k-shaped-recovery-federal-reserve-2021-1

[boutons_deux]

Unemployment claims increase as COVID-19 surges


Another 1.2 (https://www.dol.gov/ui/data.pdf) million people applied for Unemployment Insurance (UI) benefits last week, including 965,000 people who applied for regular state UI and 284,000 who applied for Pandemic Unemployment Assistance (PUA). The 1.2 million who applied for UI last week was an increase of 304,000 from the prior week.

the 181,000 rise in seasonally adjusted regular state claims suggests layoffs are increasing as the COVID-19 pandemic surges.

Last week was the 43rd straight week total initial claims were greater than the worst week of the Great Recession.

continuing claims for regular state UI rose by 199,000, meaning new continuing claims were outpacing exhaustions.

There are now 26.8 million (https://www.epi.org/blog/the-economy-president-elect-biden-is-inheriting-26-8-million-workers-15-8-of-the-workforce-are-being-directly-hurt-by-the-coronavirus-crisis/) workers who are either unemployed, otherwise out of work because of the virus, or have seen a drop in hours and pay because of the pandemic.

we started losing jobs again in December (https://www.epi.org/press/december-jobs-report-provides-a-clear-picture-of-trumps-failed-handling-of-the-economy/); layoffs are rising and the virus is surging.

To get the economy back on track in a reasonable timeframe,

we need policymakers to pass an additional $2.1 trillion in fiscal support

(the $2.1 trillion is calculated by subtracting the $900 billion December COVID-19 relief bill from the total $3 trillion (https://www.epi.org/publication/principles-for-the-relief-and-recovery-phase-of-rebuilding-the-u-s-economy-use-debt-go-big-and-stay-big-and-be-very-slow-when-turning-off-fiscal-support/) in fiscal support that is actually needed).

In particular, it is crucial that Congress provide substantial aid to state and local governments.

Without this aid, austerity by state and local governments will result in cuts to essential public services and the loss of millions of jobs (https://www.epi.org/blog/without-federal-aid-to-state-and-local-governments-5-3-million-workers-will-likely-lose-their-jobs-by-the-end-of-2021-see-estimated-job-losses-by-state/)in both the public and private sector.

https://www.epi.org/blog/unemployment-claims-increase-as-covid-19-surges

McConnell's BigDonor Capitalist class has been and is mopping up $100Bs, so he will block the above aid to Labor and state/local govts.

[boutons_deux]

Canada’s Mortgage Lenders Have Set Aside a Record Amount for Bad Loans
https://wolfstreet.com/2021/01/14/canadas-mortgage-lenders-have-set-aside-a-record-amount-for-bad-loans/

And the USA?

[boutons_deux]

US unemployment applications spike to highest since August


Layoffs are coinciding with an economy that has faltered as consumers avoid traveling, shopping, and dining out as confirmed COVID-19 cases rise.

And the consumer slowdown only adds to layoffs caused by business restrictions and shutdowns.

The number of people seeking unemployment aid soared last week to 965,000, the most since late August,

with evidence that the resurgent virus has caused a spike in layoffs.

https://www.csmonitor.com/Business/2021/0114/US-unemployment-applications-spike-to-highest-since-August (https://www.csmonitor.com/Business/2021/0114/US-unemployment-applications-spike-to-highest-since-August?icid=rss)

[boutons_deux]

"President-elect Joe Biden is unveiling a $1.9 trillion coronavirus plan Thursday to turn the tide on the pandemic,

speeding up the vaccine rollout and

providing financial help to individuals, states, and local governments and businesses struggling with the prolonged economic fallout.

It includes $1,400 checks for most Americans,

which on top of $600 provided in the most recent COVID-19 bill would

bring the total to the $2,000 that Biden has called for. "

Boston Globe email

[Winehole23]

extends eviction moratorium and UI until September

[Winehole23]

triangulation?

1349869814916018180

[DarrinS]

I thought Karrin was a high roller paying $10,000 a year in property taxes. Did he cheat on his income taxes to become eligible for those checks?

My AGI is not over $174K

[Monostradamus]

Uncle Chan with Derp level logic :lmao

https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1350374535921504261?s=21

[boutons_deux]

Manchin making sounds he will not support the bill, saying he's for the one-stimulus payment only to people who need, not people / couples making up to $75K / year

I think Manchin will align more with the Senate Repugs than with the Dems, to pander to his Fox viewers, letting them decide how he votes

eg, I bet he would block making DC and PR states. Takes a simple majority of both chambers.

[boutons_deux]

Trump administration gave private jet companies over half a billion in pandemic bailout funds

You might remember Trump Treasury Rich Guy Steven Mnuchin moving to axe nearly a half billion in emergency pandemic lending (https://www.dailykos.com/stories/1998031) after Donald Trump lost his bid for reelection,

under the pretense that Our Work Here Is Done or somesuch—

this, after slow walking distribution of emergency funds in the first place (https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/5/18/1945968/-New-oversight-panel-finds-Mnuchin-is-hanging-on-to-500-billion-from-CARES-Act).

One business sector that did very well by the Trump administration's distribution of emergency funds, however, was the private jet industry.

Yeah, the private jet industry. This is just how things work now.

Private jet companies received over $643 million in federal aid, spread across three emergency programs (https://www.accountable.us/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/2021-01-Accountable.US-Private-Jet-Triple-Dippers.pdf).

The majority, over half a billion dollars, came in grants from the Payroll Support Program.

"[A]t least 49 private jet companies have been given access to all three programs, taking up to $87.38 million in federal COVID stimulus funds between them," notes the report.

What can you say?

They've got lobbyists, and you don't (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/20/private-jet-industry-asks-for-bailout-funding.html).

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2009259

US Govt (under both parties, but esp Repugs) is an ATM for the oligarchy.

[boutons_deux]

The Trump administration bailed out prominent anti-vaccine groups during a pandemic

received more than $850,000 in loans from the federal Paycheck Protection Program,

raising questions about why the government is giving money to

groups actively opposing its agenda and seeking to undermine public health during a critical period.

The groups that received the loans are the

National Vaccine Information Center,
Mercola Health Resources,
the Informed Consent Action Network,
the Children’s Health Defense and
the Tenpenny Integrative Medical Center,

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2021/01/18/ppp-loans-anti-vaccine

[CosmicCowboy]

The Trump administration bailed out prominent anti-vaccine groups during a pandemic

received more than $850,000 in loans from the federal Paycheck Protection Program,

raising questions about why the government is giving money to

groups actively opposing its agenda and seeking to undermine public health during a critical period.

The groups that received the loans are the

National Vaccine Information Center,
Mercola Health Resources,
the Informed Consent Action Network,
the Children’s Health Defense and
the Tenpenny Integrative Medical Center,

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2021/01/18/ppp-loans-anti-vaccine


The PPP passed with bipartisan support of the house and senate.