Jakob Poeltl is finalizing a three-year, near $27M deal to return to San Antonio

[BackHome]

Poodle if your out there your ass better be working on a mid range shot I don’t care if you even use the back board like Timmy used to do and learn a post move for Christ sake oh and is it to hard to learn how to dunk the ball with two hands.

[Dejounte]

a lot of us who live/lived in SA grew up watching the Spurs didnt "choose" our fandom, its just how it is. you cant just turn your fandom off and watch another team instead, thats not how it works. at least not for most people i would imagine

Okay, then it shouldn't be hard to tell several hundreds of Spurs employees they're laid off because the team is paying tens of millions of dollars to luxury tax. They should just tell them "it's just how it is". And in turn, giving fans a worse product because they're operating a skeleton crew. Hell, they might not be able to broadcast the Spurs on local TV anymore because so much money is going to players. They must be like, "damn, how are we going to pay our electricity bills". Oops.

[poopbox]

If that was the plan paying Jakob hurts the cap space plan is the point.

Personally I always had Poeltl as someone who would be signed to a 7 to 11 million year deal, so for the cap stuff I do for myself I had him accounted for.

He only got a 3 year deal and I had him penciled in for a 4 or 5 one.

Unless we have to pay damn near max money for white, we are still going to have a max slot next year if we just let ddr lma gay and mills walk

[Chinook]

So next year's cap shouldn't be an issue. Worrying about that's a non-starter. That doesn't make his contract good. But it's tenable so long as the team stays under the tax. It was a real dick move to try to sign an offer sheet that would make SA be a tax team. It seems like both sides would've been served well by doing a sign-and-trade.

I don't think this deal really pushes LMA out the door. As I said before, the Spurs paid Splitter this same APY in a lower cap to be Tim's backup. Like with Tiago and Pau, I'm sure the Spurs are willing to play Jakob any minute with Aldridge that they can. But they are going into this deal content that he won't start.

There's nothing wrong with signing Poeltl in general. It doesn't hurt the team's direction, and not picking a side or whatever doesn't matter. The Spurs seem willing to let their vets expire, not so they can have some maximized amount of cap space but so they can have options for how they want to build around their young players. Maybe that means bringing in bad contracts for assets. Maybe it means trying to lure high-dollar free agents. Maybe it means re-upping the vets and trying again. We don't know, and it won't be something the Spurs will decide until after they get into the year and can see what they have.

And no, OKC is way, way off the rails at this point. They've basically made no trade of consequence, potentially even including the George and Westbrook trades. Presti needs blue-chippers, not a scatter shot. Every GM can tear a team down if they're ruthless enough. Even a shit-tier one like Hinkie did it. But navigating those assets and turning them into just a few legit foundation pieces is what separates good GMs from mediocre ones (bad ones will just draft a bunch of busts). That Presti failed to do that in this past draft can be defended as him not liking the players. But if next draft comes along and he hasn't traded half those picks to move up, OKC's whole rebuilding plan is going into the shitter.

[bluebellmaniac]

It's a valid point. Fans here chose a small market team to root for. The issue is systemic and it's not like the organization's owners chose to be poorer than everyone else is. For a small market team that has performed the way it has done these past decades.... You can say that's impressive and unappreciated by most.

People can easily go root for a big market team like New York if they wanted to see a team be aggressive and pay players enormous amounts of money. But bottom-line is, they picked (and are actively picking) a small market team.

We didn't choose this life, this life chose us.

[exstatic]

So next year's cap shouldn't be an issue. Worrying about that's a non-starter. That doesn't make his contract good. But it's tenable so long as the team stays under the tax. It was a real dick move to try to sign an offer sheet that would make SA be a tax team. It seems like both sides would've been served well by doing a sign-and-trade.

I don't think this deal really pushes LMA out the door. As I said before, the Spurs paid Splitter this same APY in a lower cap to be Tim's backup. Like with Tiago and Pau, I'm sure the Spurs are willing to play Jakob any minute with Aldridge that they can. But they are going into this deal content that he won't start.

There's nothing wrong with signing Poeltl in general. It doesn't hurt the team's direction, and not picking a side or whatever doesn't matter. The Spurs seem willing to let their vets expire, not so they can have some maximized amount of cap space but so they can have options for how they want to build around their young players. Maybe that means bringing in bad contracts for assets. Maybe it means trying to lure high-dollar free agents. Maybe it means re-upping the vets and trying again. We don't know, and it won't be something the Spurs will decide until after they get into the year and can see what they have.

And no, OKC is way, way off the rails at this point. They've basically made no trade of consequence, potentially even including the George and Westbrook trades. Presti needs blue-chippers, not a scatter shot. Every GM can tear a team down if they're ruthless enough. Even a shit-tier one like Hinkie did it. But navigating those assets and turning them into just a few legit foundation pieces is what separates good GMs from mediocre ones (bad ones will just draft a bunch of busts). That Presti failed to do that in this past draft can be defended as him not liking the players. But if next draft comes along and he hasn't traded half those picks to move up, OKC's whole rebuilding plan is going into the shitter.

Don’t be too hard on Poodle. In 2001, David Robinson threatened to sign with the Knicks. Spurs wanted him to sign a one year cheapie like Barkley did to get Pippin to Houston, so they could make a run at CWebb. David was not amused, and eventually signed his final contract with SA, 2yrs/$20M.

[B1gduff]

The proponents of maintaing as much cap space as possible don't seem to explain themselves regarding what they are expecting to be done with it.

Attract a top guy in FA?
Be a dumping ground for bad contracts as to get draft capital?

What?

I'm tired of hearing this bitching for bitching's sake.

PATFO has no direction? They are letting their young players develop in a try-to-be-winning environment.

What should they be doing? If they axe all of the vets they won't be that much worse, so there goes the tank aspect.
And obviously they can't contend with LMA / DMDR so even the eventual signing wouldn't change things much.

They are flexibile enough to accomodate any eventual FA, or a disgruntled player via trade.

What's more to do?

My point is, there is too much whining and not enough constructive ideas.


It wierd, half of these same clowns are crying about having forbes and Marco taking up playing time from the young guys, and its the same clowns that are willing to take bad contracts, effect out cap for next season, limit the playing time for the youth.

lets not forgot the good ole, we should trade Murray, deaft a pg, thet will likely take 2-3 years to develop.......

or the fact that we should have taken player A, instead of player B....Than a few years later, these same clowns will be like " i knew player B will be this good!"

[Chinook]

Don’t be too hard on Poodle. In 2001, David Robinson threatened to sign with the Knicks. Spurs wanted him to sign a one year cheapie like Barkley did to get Pippin to Houston, so they could make a run at CWebb. David was not amused, and eventually signed his final contract with SA, 2yrs/$20M.

Negotiating is one thing, and I'm not made at Jakob for trying to get as much as he could. He was at least willing to work with the team on the structure in order to stay. I don't like how much of a blitz it seemed to be though.

[Joseph Kony]

Okay, then it shouldn't be hard to tell several hundreds of Spurs employees they're laid off because the team is paying tens of millions of dollars to luxury tax. They should just tell them "it's just how it is". And in turn, giving fans a worse product because they're operating a skeleton crew. Hell, they might not be able to broadcast the Spurs on local TV anymore because so much money is going to players. They must be like, "damn, how are we going to pay our electricity bills". Oops.

:lmao give me a break. spurs cant trade LMA because some employees will get laid off? dumbest thing i've heard on here in awhile

[Dejounte]

:lmao give me a break. spurs cant trade LMA because some employees will get laid off? dumbest thing i've heard on here in awhile

Not what I said at all. I'm saying if fans want the organization to act like other aggressive organizations, that's the price to pay as a small market team.

[exstatic]

Negotiating is one thing, and I'm not made at Jakob for trying to get as much as he could. He was at least willing to work with the team on the structure in order to stay. I don't like how much of a blitz it seemed to be though.

It probably would have been a gentler negotiation in the normal time frame, but everything is compressed. Preseason starts in less than 3 weeks, and teams are rapidly spending their money.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

My conclusion is, “whatever”. At this point it’s clear we’re just maneuvering to keep our assets signed under the cap.


We’ve certainly behaved far more in a stand-pat, Holting pattern than I ever would have expected considering our shitty season and the caliber of the expiring contracts we have at our disposal. Maybe the FO will do a fire sale at the trade deadline if the team isn’t doing well. Obviously Pop must think he can win with this group because we sure didn’t shake anything up.

[toki9]

Negotiating is one thing, and I'm not made at Jakob for trying to get as much as he could. He was at least willing to work with the team on the structure in order to stay. I don't like how much of a blitz it seemed to be though.

That could have been driven by the other teams, particularly given how quickly NO turned around and traded for Adams...it could be that Poeltl was being pushed by other teams who had contingency plans all lined up...

[slick'81]

Rasho,splitter and now poodle power keep the big white plodding center alive in sa

[BackHome]

Pop loves centers who can’t dunk and are not physical

[offset formation]

Lakers just signed Montrezz.... Im telling you the trade deadline is looking pretty favorable for the Spurs. GSW and now the Clippers are gonna need some front line help depending on how the season plays out.

Lakers isnt the only front court Contenders are worried about in the west... there is dude they call Joker.....

You guys are looking at this all wrong

Haha, can you imagine neph having to play with Aldridge again? I'd love it for this reason alone.

[offset formation]

Personally I always had Poeltl as someone who would be signed to a 7 to 11 million year deal, so for the cap stuff I do for myself I had him accounted for.

He only got a 3 year deal and I had him penciled in for a 4 or 5 one.

Unless we have to pay damn near max money for white, we are still going to have a max slot next year if we just let ddr lma gay and mills walk

And what do we do when Giannis lands in Miami or Dallas as expected? Guessing we consider resigning DDR to a 3 or 4 year max (depending on his fit this year) and maybe even LMA on a smaller vet contract if he slides behind the line seamlessly this year. Hell I could even see them bringing back Patty as a vet minimum, were he so inclined, to be the equivalent of a bench player/coach.

Those last two signings are far, far more likely than getting a splash max free agent like Giannis.

[SpurSpike]

Let me get this straight, You think the GSW are TANKING ANOTHER SEASON!??!?!?!?!?!
For the Recrod.... this is your Stance. GSW are TANKING another SEASON ? PRIME YEARS of the Curry in Poops "Just Like Curry..." take?

OMG

Pretty much. They use this year to get Wiseman up to speed and get another good pick to trade for a win now player next year.

Unless you think Curry, Green and Aldridge is enough to ring next year, is that your take?

[tmtcsc]

You can do this all before the trade deadline. Why so impatient its not like the spurs are even expected to make the playoffs. WTF?

Because there are or were better players to be had in possible sign & trades. This isn’t the old Champion Spurs where they have a core lineup of HOF’ers & can sit on their ass & develop projects. They need players to play & play well. Murray has been a starter FFS and it was a gamble that didn’t pay off.

The Spurs doubled down and gave that dude a ridiculous extension. SMH

[tmtcsc]

Fuck Giannis. Dude is a playoff choker and loser. He’s been so damned overhyped with his athleticism but he’s not a go to player during winning time. Nothing more than a very, very poor man’s David Robinson.

[mo7888]

And what do we do when Giannis lands in Miami or Dallas as expected? Guessing we consider resigning DDR to a 3 or 4 year max (depending on his fit this year) and maybe even LMA on a smaller vet contract if he slides behind the line seamlessly this year. Hell I could even see them bringing back Patty as a vet minimum, were he so inclined, to be the equivalent of a bench player/coach.

Those last two signings are far, far more likely than getting a splash max free agent like Giannis.

I expect Giannis to sign the super max with Milwaukee

[**BUSTA**]

He’s not taking a roster spot. He was waived, and actually played a few games for Houston afterwards.

I know that , but because of him Spurs cannot fill the spot without going into tax or clearing space through trade.
It was a joke.

[GAustex]

I know that , but because of him Spurs cannot fill the spot without going into tax or clearing space through trade.
It was a joke.

A cruel joke that senile drunk assed poop played in SpurNation

[ragas]

. It was a real dick move to try to sign an offer sheet that would make SA be a tax team.

what? Are you serious? It‘s not Poeltl‘s fault that they have Carroll on their payroll and they made other dumb decisions. Everybody would try to get as much as he can. That‘s part of the game. Otherwise You could also say it‘s a dick move the Spurs didn‘t want to pay the price the market had set.

[SpursFanInAustin]

Pop loves centers who can’t dunk and are not physical

But Poeltl is physical. Ask Zion whenever Poeltl defends him.

[ZeusWillJudge]

So the Spurs are in "win now" mode. :lol

[TDMVPDPOY]

shouldv went after baynes who couldve been had for cheaper....

[TD 21]

:lmao At timvp who claimed his market value would be $5M. It was obviously always going to end up within' sniffing distance of the MLE and that's fine.

He fills a position/role of need and is one of the few players on this roster who has proven to drive winning. Sure, his limitations would be an issue at some point in the playoffs if they were a contender or close but news flash: They're not and won't have to worry about it through the duration of his contract and beyond.

Cap space is irrelevant. What's important is having an easy means to creating it if need be. I don't think needing to create more will be necessary anytime soon, so retaining the asset made sense.

[DPG21920]

Chinook - am I missing something? I think a 10 year vet max is 39m. If no one that was a fa this year or next was on books Sa had 60m. With Jakob they will have 52m. So if White signs for anything over 13m first year Sa will be below 10 year max space (Rough math)

[Chinook]

Chinook - am I missing something? I think a 10 year vet max is 39m. If no one that was a fa this year or next was on books Sa had 60m. With Jakob they will have 52m. So if White signs for anything over 13m first year Sa will be below 10 year max space (Rough math)

That original number included White's cap hold of nearly $11 Million

[RC_Drunkford]

Why are y’all talking about Giannis when the Spurs can’t even get mediocre players like Jae Crowder and Christian Wood to come here?

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/RealTomPetrini/status/1331375245270392838

There you have it. I wish he had a krew who would leak what he was told...

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/JeffGSpursZone/status/1331374919607836673

https://twitter.com/HectorLedesmaTV/status/1331374915061248002

https://twitter.com/bouncepassos/status/1331374906643259398

https://twitter.com/JeffGSpursZone/status/1331374738309074947

https://twitter.com/HectorLedesmaTV/status/1331374446251290625

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/HectorLedesmaTV/status/1331374754666835976

Don't tell DPG that Poetl said "it's going to take time".

[Chinook]

PATFO's slipping trying to develop their prospects with chemistry and culture. The old Spurs never cared about any of that...

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/HectorLedesmaTV/status/1331376364985978884

I mentioned the on-court chemistry between Lonnie and Poetl earlier, but the off-court chemistry between Jakob and Derrick is pretty good, too.

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/HectorLedesmaTV/status/1331376953392246796

Spurs = top 5 defense this year? I think so.

https://twitter.com/KSATRJ/status/1331377264089501696

[timvp]

Sounds like the Spurs subtly hinted to Poeltl that Aldridge won't be around forever. I guess there's a chance we can rule out Aldridge getting an extension...

[rankingtear]

1331376623967481857

One of the most efficient player on DHO play type in White (99th percentile) with the best screen-assist big man per minute in the league in Poeltl.
One of the best pick and roll guard in White (86th percentile) with the one of the best roll man in Poeltl (81st percentile).

Anyone who likes White should not be bitching about this signing.

[BackHome]

I honestly think White and Poodle can work really well with each other but you won't see the full amount until Derozz is gone. Once that is done I see a lot of easy lobs/dunks for both White and Poodle.

But Poodle if you want to be a starting Center in this league your going to have to spend every minute every hour every day working on a sky hook/or a jump shot and a 3 ball if you want to stay a starter in this league for a long time.

[DPG21920]

PATFO's slipping trying to develop their prospects with chemistry and culture. The old Spurs never cared about any of that...

Old Spurs never missed the playoffs either tbh

[mo7888]

I have to say that interview gives me hope that we are going to trade LMA instead of letting him walk next summer.

[tonight...you]

Sounds like the Spurs subtly hinted to Poeltl that Aldridge won't be around forever. I guess there's a chance we can rule out Aldridge getting an extension...
And that White is most definitely getting an extension.

[Chinook]

Old Spurs never missed the playoffs either tbh

Yeah, because they had good culture and chemistry. I thought that was the obvious point I was making.

[Collins21]

Yeah, because they had good culture and chemistry. I thought that was the obvious point I was making.

This guy has been off the rails ever since his predictions bombed.

[DPG21920]

Yeah, because they had good culture and chemistry. I thought that was the obvious point I was making.

No lol. It’s because they had Duncan Parker and Ginobili. We’ve proven good chemistry and culture doesn’t > talent + coaching

[DPG21920]

This guy has been off the rails ever since his predictions bombed.

:lol

[Collins21]

:lol

Nah man you want RC and Brian Wright's head on a stick don't you lol. Ever since free agency you've been on them non stop lol. It's entertaining.

[DPG21920]

Nah man you want RC and Brian Wright's head on a stick don't you lol. Ever since free agency you've been on them non stop lol. It's entertaining.

They’ve been ass imo. I’m not the only one who sees it. But like I said they avoided mistakes. This just largely have been paralyzed and at least that’s better than making more Carroll/Mills type mistakes I guess.

[Collins21]

They’ve been ass imo. I’m not the only one who sees it. But like I said they avoided mistakes. This just largely have been paralyzed and at least that’s better than making more Carroll/Mills type mistakes I guess.

I just watch the games. I stay out of the front office decisions. I'm not mad about not trading them this summer because truthfully just knowing good business it would have been best to trade them at the deadline last year. I didn't want to see that but if we're talking business wise that was the chance at a good return. Now i just want them to let them leave for nothing if that's the case instead of taking back garbage.

[DPG21920]

I just watch the games. I stay out of the front office decisions. I'm not mad about not trading them this summer because truthfully just knowing good business it would have been best to trade them at the deadline last year. I didn't want to see that but if we're talking business wise that was the chance at a good return. Now i just want them to let them leave for nothing if that's the case instead of taking back garbage.

I think the big difference in me and some others is what is “trash”. I think taking on a year or two of a bad player is worth getting some extra shots in the draft. SA drafts well stands to reason extra shots means good things.

[Chinook]

No lol. It’s because they had Duncan Parker and Ginobili. We’ve proven good chemistry and culture doesn’t > talent + coaching

But they have talent. They just have to develop it. It's also hard to separate culture from coaching or the personalities of the talent. Certainly, plenty of stars and even superstars had way less success than the Spurs did. It wasn't merely talent that carried them through.

[DPG21920]

But they have talent. They just have to develop it. It's also hard to separate culture from coaching or the personalities of the talent. Certainly, plenty of stars and even superstars had way less success than the Spurs did. It wasn't merely talent that carried them through.

True. Point is, especially when you miss playoffs, that talent > everything else. Winning titles? Ya. It’s the little things too.

[Chinook]

I think the big difference in me and some others is what is “trash”. I think taking on a year or two of a bad player is worth getting some extra shots in the draft. SA drafts well stands to reason extra shots means good things.

Do you REALLY think SA drafts that well compared to other teams, or do you think they might actually develop players well? I think the biggest reason why they seem to have more success with late picks is because they don't ask those players to do too much, especially early. Those young players have also had good mentors to learn from and have mostly avoided drama. It's weird how teams that have been able to draft objectively more talented players seem to still not get as much out of them.

[Chinook]

True. Point is, especially when you miss playoffs, that talent > everything else. Winning titles? Ya. It’s the little things too.

I don't think that's a thing, though. Like who said talent trumps everything when you miss the playoffs? Teams that miss the playoffs perennially almost always have a ton of talent on their roster because of the train of high picks they get and the ability to overpay to get at least middling talent on their roster. To think Minny, for example, hasn't been talented AF for like six years is weird. Meanwhile you could argue that Dallas has very little talent outside Donicic (and Kristaps this past year) was still had a steady chance of making the post-season most years.

No offense, but it sounds like you're trying to make up axioms on the fly because you are unsure of how to handle a non-contender Spurs team.

[DPG21920]

Do you REALLY think SA drafts that well compared to other teams, or do you think they might actually develop players well? I think the biggest reason why they seem to have more success with late picks is because they don't ask those players to do too much, especially early. Those young players have also had good mentors to learn from and have mostly avoided drama. It's weird how teams that have been able to draft objectively more talented players seem to still not get as much out of them.

That’s a great question. Honestly? Both. I think they go hand in hand but they aren’t turning turds into polish. They are drafting excellent players especially when factoring in average draft position

[DPG21920]

I don't think that's a thing, though. Like who said talent trumps everything when you miss the playoffs? Teams that miss the playoffs perennially almost always have a ton of talent on their roster because of the train of high picks they get and the ability to overpay to get at least middling talent on their roster. To think Minny, for example, hasn't been talented AF for like six years is weird. Meanwhile you could argue that Dallas has very little talent outside Donicic (and Kristaps this past year) was still had a steady chance of making the post-season most years.

No offense, but it sounds like you're trying to make up axioms on the fly because you are unsure of how to handle a non-contender Spurs team.

Disagree - I can handle it fine. Most things I’ve been saying are in lense of being a non playoff team.

[BackHome]

I can say that if we are able to get a pick in the 2021 draft from the 6th - 12th range that player had a good chance to be one our top 2 players easily. If we are able to get a pick in the 13th to 19th range that player will become a starter within 2 years on this team barring any vet signings. Yes, that is how talented this upcoming draft class is hate it or not ...........

[Chinook]

Disagree - I can handle it fine. Most things I’ve been saying are in lense of being a non playoff team.

I believe you're struggling with the idea that the Spurs might be mediocre for a long time and are looking for the quickest fix possible. If you were rooting for the Lakers or Heat, you'd want them to dump contracts as fast as possible to play free agency. For the Spurs, you seem to believe they have to tank and get a high pick to fix get back on track. That's not really handling them being a non-contender/non-playoff team fine at all. I think if you really considered the odds of their possible paths succeeding, you'd realize how self-defeating a lot of your wishes for them are.

[timtonymanu]

Hard not to like Jakob. One of my favorite players from the last 2 trainwreck seasons.

[Fireball]

I like him and am glad he is back ...

[DPG21920]

I believe you're struggling with the idea that the Spurs might be mediocre for a long time and are looking for the quickest fix possible. If you were rooting for the Lakers or Heat, you'd want them to dump contracts as fast as possible to play free agency. For the Spurs, you seem to believe they have to tank and get a high pick to fix get back on track. That's not really handling them being a non-contender/non-playoff team fine at all. I think if you really considered the odds of their possible paths succeeding, you'd realize how self-defeating a lot of your wishes for them are.

Whether you agree or not, I think you aren’t giving me any credit for actually thinking this through :lol

[The Truth #6]

Happy to see hints that Jakob and not LMA will be an emphasis going forward. If they start Jakob over LMA I will be very impressed.

[DPG21920]

Happy to see hints that Jakob and not LMA will be an emphasis going forward. If they start Jakob over LMA I will be very impressed.

Would kill any value lma has left. But if they don’t care and are fine with him walking? Sure.

[The Truth #6]

Would kill any value lma has left. But if they don’t care and are fine with him walking? Sure.

It’s a conflict that is obviously there based on how the off-season went. I don’t love it. But I hope they can somehow maximize Jakob while also reinventing LMA as a stretch five in a less dominant role. If they can get LMA to do that, there’s a chance it might actually increase his trade value. It’s not likely but this is Pop’s challenge he gave himself.

[Excessive Egotist]

Would kill any value lma has left. But if they don’t care and are fine with him walking? Sure.

I'd bet Spurs continue to start Aldridge and DeRozan. The questions to me are Johnson or Lyles and Walker or White? I'm also convinced that Pop will experiment with starting lineups more than ever.

I'd like to see Johnson start, but that effectively gives the Spurs a defensive front court of Aldridge and DeRozan. This helps in terms of optimizing our lottery odds, but will be painful to watch.

[Dejounte]

Value doesn't have to be strictly seen as a going-in/ going-out type. Value could be the veteran leadership that Aldridge provides to the younger players that those younger players can't get anywhere else. The Spurs can suck the value out of that and make LMA worth every year he has been here.

[ace3g]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnIhIKcsGoI

[Dejounte]

I'd bet Spurs continue to start Aldridge and DeRozan. The questions to me are Johnson or Lyles and Walker or White? I'm also convinced that Pop will experiment with starting lineups more than ever.

I'd like to see Johnson start, but that effectively gives the Spurs a defensive front court of Aldridge and DeRozan. This helps in terms of optimizing our lottery odds, but will be painful to watch.

It's no question that those two are going to start the season. Other players have to earn their stripes over those two. I have no doubt this year will be their last time starting for the Spurs, though. If they re-negotiate with the Spurs a new contract, it could be stated in those terms that they eventually have to give up their starting spot to a younger player who deserves it. Then they can give that spot up Richard Jefferson-style to a younger player. It's gotta be clear that the player taking their spot is better. Right now, as much as I love Keldon, I can't say that he is better than DeRozan yet. We sure as hell can't say Poetl is better than Aldridge. They have to earn it and shine brighter than the freaking sun when they get their minutes, just like Kawhi did.

[The Truth #6]

Value doesn't have to be strictly seen as a going-in/ going-out type. Value could be the veteran leadership that Aldridge provides to the younger players that those younger players can't get anywhere else. The Spurs can suck the value out of that and make LMA worth every year he has been here.

I agree in theory, but I don’t see LMA as much of a leader. Too quiet. One reason I think Pop loves Murray is that he sees some leadership potential in him.

[Dejounte]

I agree in theory, but I don’t see LMA as much of a leader. Too quiet. One reason I think Pop loves Murray is that he sees some leadership potential in him.

Only reason I say that is that he is frequently mentioned by the younger players when asked about how helpful the veterans have been. He is mentioned in the same breath as Rudy Gay and DeMar. We don't know for sure, though.

Also, Tim Duncan was perceived as quiet and he was the greatest leader of them all... just saying.

[Drom John]

$8,730,240 Jame Wiseman [cap hold]
$8,333.333 Jakob Poeltl

[Spursfanfromafar]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnIhIKcsGoI

I have always liked Poeltl with the Spurs. He has been a per minute value add for the team and plays an important role in an era where centers are a dying breed. If the Spurs can land that star - either through developing one of their young core players or someone in the draft/ trade in the next two years, Poeltl will be a valuable role player component in a contending team going forward.

[Brazil]

I'm on the it's a good signing side tbh.. This contract is fine in terms of amount in the actual market, I hear comments about cap space but to do what ? nothing short term to transform this team in a powerhouse anyway. If things change and opportunities appear this contract is a great trade tool anyway. Signing does not hamper anything regarding Spurs future that lie on the management of the two big salaries Rozan and LMA

[JuneJive]

Jakob Poeltl's three-year deal with the San Antonio Spurs:

2020-21: $8,101,852
2021-22: $8,750,000
2022-23: $9,398,148

No options. All years fully guaranteed.

[Chinook]

Jakob Poeltl's three-year deal with the San Antonio Spurs:

2020-21: $8,101,852
2021-22: $8,750,000
2022-23: $9,398,148

No options. All years fully guaranteed.

Hmm... so if timvp 's chart was correct on salaries, the Spurs should have $962,614 left under the tax. That'd put them far enough under to sign a 15th man if that player is a rookie. That means Reynolds probably won't make the team out of camp, but someone else might. Makes the potential of those three open spots a bit more intriguing.

[Excessive Egotist]

Hmm... so if timvp (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=8) 's chart was correct on salaries, the Spurs should have $962,614 left under the tax. That'd put them far enough under to sign a 15th man if that player is a rookie. That means Reynolds probably won't make the team out of camp, but someone else might. Makes the potential of those three open spots a bit more intriguing.

I noticed this same thing earlier this morning when looking at the cap. Spurs can be opportunistic by sifting through the best camp cuts. I'm intrigued by Paul Reed and Isaiah Joe. One of those two may miss Philly's roster, even with two ways included. The Spurs have the advantage of scouting preseason film before making a determination.

[Dejounte]

Hmm... so if timvp (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=8) 's chart was correct on salaries, the Spurs should have $962,614 left under the tax. That'd put them far enough under to sign a 15th man if that player is a rookie. That means Reynolds probably won't make the team out of camp, but someone else might. Makes the potential of those three open spots a bit more intriguing.

Can you elaborate on that please?

[Excessive Egotist]

Hmm... so if timvp (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=8) 's chart was correct on salaries, the Spurs should have $962,614 left under the tax. That'd put them far enough under to sign a 15th man if that player is a rookie. That means Reynolds probably won't make the team out of camp, but someone else might. Makes the potential of those three open spots a bit more intriguing.


Also, the odds remain low, but there is still a little trade market activity (Batum, Houston, Knicks have open space). Spurs could help get a deal done by being the third team. So having an open roster spot for a few more weeks gives San Antonio more flexibility to help in a trade, if something good comes to them.

[Chinook]

Can you elaborate on that please?

IIRC the min salary for a player with one year of NBA experience is like $1.4 Million. That's more than the room the Spurs have under the tax. Reynolds has an accrued season from 2018-2019, so he can't get a deal small enough. A random rookie like Paul Reed could.

[Chinook]

Also, the odds remain low, but there is still a little trade market activity (Batum, Houston, Knicks have open space). Spurs could help get a deal done by being the third team. So having an open roster spot for a few more weeks gives San Antonio more flexibility to help in a trade, if something good comes to them.
That's true both in the sense of taking back salary and having room under the tax to sign free agents to fill the roster if the team does a many-for-1 trade.

[Chinook]

I noticed this same thing earlier this morning when looking at the cap. Spurs can be opportunistic by sifting through the best camp cuts. I'm intrigued by Paul Reed and Isaiah Joe. One of those two may miss Philly's roster, even with two ways included. The Spurs have the advantage of scouting preseason film before making a determination.

The Spurs could also trade for one of them or any rookie-min player on the outs in exchange for cash or something. They couldn't do it if it were a guy on a three-year deal like Jones might be. But on a one- or two-year min deal? Could be worth it, now or later in the season.

[Excessive Egotist]

That's true both in the sense of taking back salary and having room under the tax to sign free agents to fill the roster if the team does a many-for-1 trade.

True.

[Excessive Egotist]

The Spurs could also trade for one of them or any rookie-min player on the outs in exchange for cash or something. They couldn't do it if it were a guy on a three-year deal like Jones might be. But on a one- or two-year min deal? Could be worth it, now or later in the season.

:tu

[Drom John]

Out of 103 Centers in 2019-2021, most fouls per 48 minutes.

1 Marques Bolden
2 Eric Mika
3 Tacko Fall

35 Mitchell Robinson
36 Drew Eubanks
37 Mason Plumlee

58 Willie Cauley-Stein
59 Jakob Poeltl
60 Andre Drummond

92 Anthony Davis
93 LaMarcus Aldridge
94 Steve Adams

97 Nikola Vucevic
98 Chimezie Metu
99 Henry Ellenson

102 Kevin Love
103 Tyler Zeller

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/EvanClosky/status/1331689047190884354?s=19

https://twitter.com/EvanClosky/status/1331689903923597312?s=19

https://twitter.com/EvanClosky/status/1331692194034495490?s=19

[San Antonio Slayer]

fuck the stats, watch the games

[Sugus]

Out of 103 Centers in 2019-2021, most fouls per 48 minutes.

1 Marques Bolden
2 Eric Mika
3 Tacko Fall

35 Mitchell Robinson
36 Drew Eubanks
37 Mason Plumlee

58 Willie Cauley-Stein
59 Jakob Poeltl
60 Andre Drummond

92 Anthony Davis
93 LaMarcus Aldridge
94 Steve Adams

97 Nikola Vucevic
98 Chimezie Metu
99 Henry Ellenson

102 Kevin Love
103 Tyler Zeller

Great stat find! Really interesting. Posters here will tell you Poeltl should be #1 on the list, though. He can certainly do better, but he's nowhere near being unplayable due to foul trouble.

[Sugus]

fuck the stats, watch the games

The games where Poeltl acts as a defensive anchor for the team, perfect PnR partner for our most efficient guard in White, and also an occasionally good offensive presence when he's on? Yeah, sure isn't backing up those stats...

[Leetonidas]

https://twitter.com/EvanClosky/status/1331689047190884354?s=19

https://twitter.com/EvanClosky/status/1331689903923597312?s=19

https://twitter.com/EvanClosky/status/1331692194034495490?s=19

it's more concerning that our best defensive C could only grab 6 boards in 28 out of 71 games. only reinforces that Jakob is soft and needs to do a better job rebounding the basketball. i know he is the backup and Pop screws with his minutes but dude is usually the tallest guy out there

[Dejounte]

it's more concerning that our best defensive C could only grab 6 boards in 28 out of 71 games. only reinforces that Jakob is soft and needs to do a better job rebounding the basketball. i know he is the backup and Pop screws with his minutes but dude is usually the tallest guy out there

In those 28 games, he averaged 20 minutes. Per 36, that's 15 rebounds per game. So that's a poor comment to make.

[DPG21920]

Hmm... so if timvp 's chart was correct on salaries, the Spurs should have $962,614 left under the tax. That'd put them far enough under to sign a 15th man if that player is a rookie. That means Reynolds probably won't make the team out of camp, but someone else might. Makes the potential of those three open spots a bit more intriguing.

If Zeller is waived it’s a little more correct? Like 1.2m?

[The Truth #6]

Interesting stat. I thought his issue was poor stamina and/or plays hard and gets tired easily. But if he averages close to 30 minutes for whatever reasons, then I will be impressed.

[B1gduff]

People all ways for get that Jakob allways gets in foul trouble, we saw it in the bubble. If he can limit those fouls and mental erros, he is a bargen at that price and if he can't but still plays like he does it still a sloid contract,

[DPG21920]

Trade LMA + Lyles to BOS
Spurs get Batum + 1st
Hornets get Hayward

Jakob then gets the PT to justify signing

[Sugus]

People all ways for get that Jakob allways gets in foul trouble, we saw it in the bubble. If he can limit those fouls and mental erros, he is a bargen at that price and if he can't but still plays like he does it still a sloid contract,

Actually, I think it's the opposite - posters here who are Poeltl-averse, mostly have fresh in their minds the foul trouble Jakob had during the bubble, where calls were noticeably soft, but that hasn't been the case through last season. The stats posted in the previous page back it up - Poeltl isn't even in the top 50 of fouling centers in the NBA for the last two seasons. I still think he's gotta be better at avoiding fouls, though - but that's not a reason to not re-sign a player, IMO at least.

I can't think of many scenarios barring injury, where Poeltl is "overpaid" at his current contract. He's stated pretty clearly that he and the Spurs have talked about the future, and they'll probably keep him as a bench piece for this last season, then make him a starter the following 2, then re-evaluate for the next contract.

[TD 21]

it's more concerning that our best defensive C could only grab 6 boards in 28 out of 71 games. only reinforces that Jakob is soft and needs to do a better job rebounding the basketball. i know he is the backup and Pop screws with his minutes but dude is usually the tallest guy out there

He averaged 17.7 mpg. For sure, he's historically a sub par defensive rebounder (makes sense considering his relative lack of length (7'2.75'' wingspan) and strength), though he graduated to decent last season.

Rebound % and box outs, which generally lead to your team rebounding better with you on the floor, are far more telling than rpg.

[DPG21920]

Actually, I think it's the opposite - posters here who are Poeltl-averse, mostly have fresh in their minds the foul trouble Jakob had during the bubble, where calls were noticeably soft, but that hasn't been the case through last season. The stats posted in the previous page back it up - Poeltl isn't even in the top 50 of fouling centers in the NBA for the last two seasons. I still think he's gotta be better at avoiding fouls, though - but that's not a reason to not re-sign a player, IMO at least.

I can't think of many scenarios barring injury, where Poeltl is "overpaid" at his current contract. He's stated pretty clearly that he and the Spurs have talked about the future, and they'll probably keep him as a bench piece for this last season, then make him a starter the following 2, then re-evaluate for the next contract.

I wonder where he ranks vs real centers. Seeing guys like Tacko make me question the list. You need minutes qualifiers in there imo.

[Sugus]

I wonder where he ranks vs real centers. Seeing guys like Tacko make me question the list. You need minutes qualifiers in there imo.

I'd love to know that, too, but I don't really know how to search for that or exclude players below a certain minutes played threshold. Sucks that BBRef put most of their advanced stats and filters behind a paywall...

[Drom John]

At MP >= 1171

NBA.com keeps same rank #, but removes those below the filter.
So manually counting, worst to best:

1 Dwight Howard
2 Jaren Jackson Jr.
3 Daniel Theis

8 Joel Embiid
9 Jakob Poeltl
10 Andre Drummond

34 Lauri Markkanen
35 Larry Nance Jr.
36 Kevin Love

[DPG21920]

So he’s in top 10 most fouls...matches more with eye test then

[Joseph Kony]

Trade LMA + Lyles to BOS
Spurs get Batum + 1st
Hornets get Hayward

Jakob then gets the PT to justify signing

Does this work without Lyles? Solid trade otherwise. Who is the 1st coming from in this scenario?

[DPG21920]

Does this work without Lyles? Solid trade otherwise. Who is the 1st coming from in this scenario?

It works legally but not functionally. If SA doesn’t include more money than lma going out then they will be in Luxury Tax with this trade.

Bos most likely but not indefensible for CHA with not having to stretch Batum

[San Antonio Slayer]

The games where Poeltl acts as a defensive anchor for the team, perfect PnR partner for our most efficient guard in White, and also an occasionally good offensive presence when he's on? Yeah, sure isn't backing up those stats...
it was a pleasure to watch those bubble games and we almost made the playoffs with Jacob as a starter, that's the stats that matters so far

[Sugus]

it was a pleasure to watch those bubble games and we almost made the playoffs with Jacob as a starter, that's the stats that matters so far

Oh, lol, I had assumed your previous comment on "fuck the stats" was a criticism for Poeltl, since the stats actually speak highly of him. Totally agree there, the Spurs played markedly better in the bubble and one important factor was Jakob's play (when he wasn't in foul trouble, and even when he was, he still managed to be effective). I have little doubts that he'll improve in most aspects of the game when given a bigger role and more time to just play with the young core. Seems like everyone on the Spurs, from the FO to the players, agree with this, which is good.

[Shakril]

The most important stat in combination with Jakob is the defensive rating. With him on the Floor its goes way up (in a positive sense). The problem with Jaks Foul trouble in the bubble was not the fouls itself, but that without him the defense took a significant hit. Everything else is secondary. His primary job is to be the defensive Anchor. Also his stats are deflated to the reality what happens on the court. I have watched so many matches were he boxed out opponents so his teammates could get a easy rebound, a rebound he could have grabbed also. He plays so much teamoriented and does not care about stats. If thats not spurs basketball, than i dont know what is.

[boutons_deux]

The most important stat in combination with Jakob is the defensive rating. With him on the Floor its goes way up (in a positive sense). The problem with Jaks Foul trouble in the bubble was not the fouls itself, but that without him the defense took a significant hit. Everything else is secondary. His primary job is to be the defensive Anchor. Also his stats are deflated to the reality what happens on the court. I have watched so many matches were he boxed out opponents so his teammates could get a easy rebound, a rebound he could have grabbed also. He plays so much teamoriented and does not care about stats. If thats not spurs basketball, than i dont know what is.

I remember Tony's deep gratitude towards Rasho for blocking defenders for Tony's layups

[BackHome]

If he just had an offensive move just one

[Ocotillo]

The problem with Jaks Foul trouble in the bubble was not the fouls itself, but that without him the defense took a significant hit. Everything else is secondary. His primary job is to be the defensive Anchor.

Add to that, this season with the improved defensive presence on the perimeter that was not there during the bubble it should only get better.

[DavidTheGoliath]

At MP >= 1171

NBA.com keeps same rank #, but removes those below the filter.
So manually counting, worst to best:

1 Dwight Howard
2 Jaren Jackson Jr.
3 Daniel Theis

8 Joel Embiid
9 Jakob Poeltl
10 Andre Drummond

34 Lauri Markkanen
35 Larry Nance Jr.
36 Kevin Love

Of course youre gonna get into foul trouble when you have to pick up everybodys fuck up because of the team he plays with happens to play abysmal defense :lol

Atleast back then timmy used to have Bruce, ldn, kawhi, heck even patty was pretty good chasing his man. Jakob on the other hand ��

[GAustex]

Yep let’s see how the foul rate is with Bryn and Beli not letting their dudes a free path to the rim

[Dejounte]

Also, is where he's positioned in that list just common for bigs similar to him? Like do Embiid and Drummond have a reputation for being foul prone? Or do people understand that sometimes it comes with the territory of playing more closer to the basket and being that size? I feel people are ignoring some context here when just looking at where he's ranked and donning him a foul prone big.

[KobesAchilles]

Also, is where he's positioned in that list just common for bigs similar to him? Like do Embiid and Drummond have a reputation for being foul prone? Or do people understand that sometimes it comes with the territory of playing more closer to the basket and being that size? I feel people are ignoring some context here when just looking at where he's ranked and donning him a foul prone big.

He does foul a lot. That’s was literally the scouting report on him when we got him from Toronto. Timvp wrote an article mentioning it when we traded for him. That’s just a fact.

My problem with the whole Jakob thing is I have a hard time believing that a guy who never played more than 18 minutes a game in his entire career (as a top 10 pick mind you) is all of a sudden going to be able to play 30-35. That’s a huge leap of faith that I’m not willing to have.

[Dejounte]

He does foul a lot. That’s was literally the scouting report on him when we got him from Toronto. Timvp wrote an article mentioning it when we traded for him. That’s just a fact.

My problem with the whole Jakob thing is I have a hard time believing that a guy who never played more than 18 minutes a game in his entire career (as a top 10 pick mind you) is all of a sudden going to be able to play 30-35. That’s a huge leap of faith that I’m not willing to have.

Sure, but what I'm saying is: is that a fault that's unique to him or is it typical of bigs similar to him?

Are you and others focusing on an aspect that should be considered as minor because of my point above?

It's like marrying a rich white girl-- of course she's going to be high maintenance, she was a rich white girl.

[KobesAchilles]

Sure, but what I'm saying is: is that a fault that's unique to him or is it typical of bigs similar to him?

Are you and others focusing on an aspect that should be considered as minor because of my point above?

It's like marrying a rich white girl-- of course she's going to be high maintenance, she was a rich white girl.
I just don’t like paying 9 million to a back up. That’s what he is. A 20 minute a game guy. Some people see him as more. I don’t.

It’s like marrying that rich white girl but finding out her daddy’s cut her off. She looks good. Great in the sack and you can show her off to your buddies. But at the end of the day she isn’t bringing in any income and she hasn’t lessened her spending. Advance stats say Jakob looks great. But he’s never played consistent high minutes before in his career, he can’t space the floor or score at a good rate, and you can’t finish games with him on the floor if he shoots 50% from the line.

[Dejounte]

I just don’t like paying 9 million to a back up. That’s what he is. A 20 minute a game guy. Some people see him as more. I don’t.

It’s like marrying that rich white girl but finding out her daddy’s cut her off. She looks good. Great in the sack and you can show her off to your buddies. But at the end of the day she isn’t bringing in any income and she hasn’t lessened her spending. Advance stats say Jakob looks great. But he’s never played consistent high minutes before in his career, he can’t space the floor or score at a good rate, and you can’t finish games with him on the floor if he shoots 50% from the line.

I think we're talking about two different points here.

I'm disputing the claim that him being a foul prone big is a huge issue.

You're talking about you don't like him for other reasons (well first, it was about him being foul prone and I addressed that, but you didn't come back with a different point).

[Dejounte]

I think very few here have discussed what this signing and signing Eubanks means in terms of what play style the Spurs are committing to. They're never going to go full small ball is what it looks like to me. They'll have at least one tall guy guarding the rim at all times or else that's a lot of money sitting on the bench.

[KobesAchilles]

I think we're talking about two different points here.

I'm disputing the claim that him being a foul prone big is a huge issue.

You're talking about you don't like him for other reasons (well first, it was about him being foul prone and I addressed that, but you didn't come back with a different point).
No I was just pointing out to you that he is foul prone. Whatever the reasons, he is a foul prone big man. But we already knew that about him seeing as that was literally his scouting report since day 1 with the Spurs. I have been very consistent on why I didn’t like the contract overall in this thread and others. I don’t see him as anymore than a 20 minute a game guy and as a back up big man and I just don’t feel like he will really evolve from that. It was like when Detroit signed Baynes. I was happy for him, but he was never worth that type of money. Paying back ups bigger than needed money isn’t a smart way to run a franchise.

But then again, maybe he had a similar deal somewhere else and the Spurs just decided to keep him around. Idk but I would’ve liked it better at about 6 million dollars less total

[Dejounte]

No I was just pointing out to you that he is foul prone. Whatever the reasons, he is a foul prone big man. But we already knew that about him seeing as that was literally his scouting report since day 1 with the Spurs. I have been very consistent on why I didn’t like the contract overall in this thread and others. I don’t see him as anymore than a 20 minute a game guy and as a back up big man and I just don’t feel like he will really evolve from that. It was like when Detroit signed Baynes. I was happy for him, but he was never worth that type of money. Paying back ups bigger than needed money isn’t a smart way to run a franchise.

But then again, maybe he had a similar deal somewhere else and the Spurs just decided to keep him around. Idk but I would’ve liked it better at about 6 million dollars less total

Bro, and what I'm saying to you is that big men of his type are probably foul prone anyway. Even the best ones. So I just find it odd to mention it in the first place.

If he was a perimeter type big like Brook Lopez (or bigs who don't bang inside) and he was still foul prone, THEN I'd say there was an issue with him being foul prone.

[BackHome]

I will give you he is a good defender but what happens on offense when you have only 4 guys people have to guard outside the free throw line? No one is going to guard him on any pick and rolls and his defender is just going to cheat and pack the paint. I would love to know if Timmy has worked with him at all?

But I am resigned we signed him but no one should be under any illusion that he is a starting C for a good team and unfortunately I don’t think he will get any better on offense.

As far as Eubanks for the record he is not better then Poodle at Center but he can be used like Mills the Hot Test. One thing after the 2019 season some of his media clips it sounded like the Spurs wanted him to expand his offense and were looking at him more at the PF position. If he can start hitting some mid range and 3 balls then I think he might start getting regular minutes.

[rankingtear]

I will give you he is a good defender but what happens on offense when you have only 4 guys people have to guard outside the free throw line? No one is going to guard him on any pick and rolls and his defender is just going to cheat and pack the paint. I would love to know if Timmy has worked with him at all?

But I am resigned we signed him but no one should be under any illusion that he is a starting C for a good team and unfortunately I don’t think he will get any better on offense.

As far as Eubanks for the record he is not better then Poodle at Center but he can be used like Mills the Hot Test. One thing after the 2019 season some of his media clips it sounded like the Spurs wanted him to expand his offense and were looking at him more at the PF position. If he can start hitting some mid range and 3 balls then I think he might start getting regular minutes.

Poeltl is 89th percentile and 81st percentile points per possesion on pick and roll big playtype the last 2 years, good for 10th and 20th among pick and roll big men. He is not a top tier vertical athlete but he has good hands and he is shooting 50% from floater range.

[mo7888]

I just don’t like paying 9 million to a back up. That’s what he is. A 20 minute a game guy. Some people see him as more. I don’t.

It’s like marrying that rich white girl but finding out her daddy’s cut her off. She looks good. Great in the sack and you can show her off to your buddies. But at the end of the day she isn’t bringing in any income and she hasn’t lessened her spending. Advance stats say Jakob looks great. But he’s never played consistent high minutes before in his career, he can’t space the floor or score at a good rate, and you can’t finish games with him on the floor if he shoots 50% from the line.

I never needed my wife to bring home any income...that's my job.....I need her her to do the little things that make my life easier so I can bring home the income..... That's what they want from Jakob...do the little things to make life easier for our young wings/ guards.

[ragas]

At MP >= 1171

NBA.com keeps same rank #, but removes those below the filter.
So manually counting, worst to best:

1 Dwight Howard
2 Jaren Jackson Jr.
3 Daniel Theis

8 Joel Embiid
9 Jakob Poeltl
10 Andre Drummond

34 Lauri Markkanen
35 Larry Nance Jr.
36 Kevin Love

so that's the guys who defend at the top vs the guys who don't at the end :eyebrows

[Kurgan]

He does foul a lot. That’s was literally the scouting report on him when we got him from Toronto. Timvp wrote an article mentioning it when we traded for him. That’s just a fact.

My problem with the whole Jakob thing is I have a hard time believing that a guy who never played more than 18 minutes a game in his entire career (as a top 10 pick mind you) is all of a sudden going to be able to play 30-35. That’s a huge leap of faith that I’m not willing to have.

Yeah, his best shot was the bubble with LMA out and he barely managed 26 mpg over those eight games. Fouled out two of those games and had foul trouble for most of the others.

[KobesAchilles]

I never needed my wife to bring home any income...that's my job.....I need her her to do the little things that make my life easier so I can bring home the income..... That's what they want from Jakob...do the little things to make life easier for our young wings/ guards.

It was his metaphor (shrugs). My point isn’t that Jakob sucks or that he doesn’t do the little things or that he isn’t effective when he’s on the court. My point is mainly that we won’t be playing him a lot and 9 million a year is a lot to pay a back up. Jakob DOES make life easier for the guards, but for like 20 minutes a game.

And him being foul prone is a problem bc there are people who think/want him to play 30-35 minutes a game and that hurts his cause. Him shooting 50% from the free throw line hurts his ability to finish games for us. For the 20-23minutes a game that I think he is going to play, I don’t really care about any of that shit. I just thought we could’ve re-signed him for less. But like I said before, maybe he had another offer that we had to match.

[mo7888]

It was his metaphor (shrugs). My point isn’t that Jakob sucks or that he doesn’t do the little things or that he isn’t effective when he’s on the court. My point is mainly that we won’t be playing him a lot and 9 million a year is a lot to pay a back up. Jakob DOES make life easier for the guards, but for like 20 minutes a game.

And him being foul prone is a problem bc there are people who think/want him to play 30-35 minutes a game and that hurts his cause. Him shooting 50% from the free throw line hurts his ability to finish games for us. For the 20-23minutes a game that I think he is going to play, I don’t really care about any of that shit. I just thought we could’ve re-signed him for less. But like I said before, maybe he had another offer that we had to match.

I know it was a metaphor...I was pointing out that is doesn’t really match what Jakob is or is expected to do. He's just a guy on a reasonable contract expected to make life easier on the players with more skill...

[JuneJive]

His per-36 numbers are excellent, are they not?

I guess the Spurs see him as a full time starter next season.
It's gonna be tough for him this year if LMA stays, that I have to agree with.
Finding a rhythm and developing chemistry is difficult in a limited role.

[KobesAchilles]

I know it was a metaphor...I was pointing out that is doesn’t really match what Jakob is or is expected to do. He's just a guy on a reasonable contract expected to make life easier on the players with more skill...
But is it really reasonable? That’s my point. I think it’s too high. I’m not the only one who thinks that either. I mean the dude was 9th in minutes per game on the team. 9 million for your 9th man is just too much

[Sugus]

It was his metaphor (shrugs). My point isn’t that Jakob sucks or that he doesn’t do the little things or that he isn’t effective when he’s on the court. My point is mainly that we won’t be playing him a lot and 9 million a year is a lot to pay a back up. Jakob DOES make life easier for the guards, but for like 20 minutes a game.

And him being foul prone is a problem bc there are people who think/want him to play 30-35 minutes a game and that hurts his cause. Him shooting 50% from the free throw line hurts his ability to finish games for us. For the 20-23minutes a game that I think he is going to play, I don’t really care about any of that shit. I just thought we could’ve re-signed him for less. But like I said before, maybe he had another offer that we had to match.


Well played by Poeltl's camp. Gave Spurs an ultimatum with 15 minutes to decide whether to give him the deal he wants or he'll sign an upside down offersheet that would screw the Spurs luxury tax-wise.

Can't knock the hustle, tbh.

That was pretty clearly the case - and it's no wonder Poeltl was being courted by numerous other teams wanting to offer him even more money. As for the rest of your point, what I don't understand is how you just can't fathom Poeltl playing 30mpg, when it's already been hinted at by both the FO and Poeltl himself that they've talked about giving him a bigger role. The transitional window seems clearly set: be a backup for this last season, when the Spurs will either trade LMA at the deadline, or make him play progressively limited minutes as the season goes on, both to conserve his body and to aid a timely tank; then become a starter the last two seasons of his contract, and depending on his production there, the Spurs could either re-sign him, or explore trade options for him after the second season if he truly isn't cutting it - a $9m/year is far from untradeable.

Anyways, I can see the reasoning behind your thoughts, I just don't think it's fair/reasonable to not expect him to get any better at all, on both offense and foul troubles. If he doesn't by year two, yeah, might be an expensive backup for year 3. But a part of contracts for young players is factoring in the potential to get better, and I personally think the upside is there, even if it's only in terms of learning to not foul so much, and just polishing his game and defensive presence. That's a great compliment to our core, and definitely something I'd rather pay $9m/year than lose in RFA.

[mo7888]

But is it really reasonable? That’s my point. I think it’s too high. I’m not the only one who thinks that either. I mean the dude was 9th in minutes per game on the team. 9 million for your 9th man is just too much

Compared to what other centers just signed for it's reasonable but, more importantly, it's easily tradeable next summer if we need to create room.

[TD 21]

Who cares that he'll remain a projected backup C for 72 more games? He's a starting caliber one though he'll probably top out at a mid 20s mpg player due to a combination of poor stamina/foul trouble.

Look around, the likes of Capela and Adams will make about double to be marginally better.

It remains bizarre to me that the fanbase that had a first hand account of the impact of Ginobili and post prime Duncan remains stuck on largely irrelevant counting stats.

[tbdog]

Just remember, we gave Splitter a big contract after he was unplayable in the 2013 finals.

[exstatic]

Just remember, we gave Splitter a big contract after he was unplayable in the 2013 finals.

That was $10M in 2013 dollars. Much more of a payout than $9M in 2020 dollars. The reality is that $9M isn’t even the MLE. $9M is the new $5M.

[Mr. Body]

It was his metaphor (shrugs). My point isn’t that Jakob sucks or that he doesn’t do the little things or that he isn’t effective when he’s on the court. My point is mainly that we won’t be playing him a lot and 9 million a year is a lot to pay a back up. Jakob DOES make life easier for the guards, but for like 20 minutes a game.

And him being foul prone is a problem bc there are people who think/want him to play 30-35 minutes a game and that hurts his cause. Him shooting 50% from the free throw line hurts his ability to finish games for us. For the 20-23minutes a game that I think he is going to play, I don’t really care about any of that shit. I just thought we could’ve re-signed him for less. But like I said before, maybe he had another offer that we had to match.

Valid concerns, but better perimeter defense cuts down on his need to foul as much, doesn't it? Still has work to do regardless.

[tbdog]

That was $10M in 2013 dollars. Much more of a payout than $9M in 2020 dollars. The reality is that $9M isn’t even the MLE. $9M is the new $5M.

Yes, my point is that Splitter's payday came after that horror 2013 final series. And we knew if we got back there, we were playing the Heat again. Despite that, the Spurs knew Splitter could progress. And we then traded him away before his injury downfall for a second round pick. And used that space to get LMA.

[RC_Drunkford]

trade this bum

[r0drig0lac]

that's 50% more than Jak is worth, just horrible
analysis is usually quite easy, but this was even easier than usual, well, at least it looks like it was the only front office mistake this year.

[gospursgojas]

Rasho 2.0

[rankingtear]

Wait for the pick and roll ball handler to return from injury. There is a reason those two are besties.

[tim_duncan_fan]

Rasho 2.0

This is disrespectful to Rasho, sir. Kindly take that back.

[Blackhaus]

Contract looks bad right now

[Dejounte]

Jakob needs a DJ-like offseason and work his fucking ass off

[XDT76]

He needs to stop putting his hands on opposing players to give away cheap fouls and just try to dunk it rather than throw the ball away for TO.

[SpurPadre]

One can say he's playing in the wrong era and the victim of circumstance, or is serviceable enough for the role has but no way was he worth the top 10 pick he was drafted at.

[TheGreatYacht]

He's not playing in the wrong era. This guy sucks in any era. He has hands like Ayres, shoots free throws like Deandre Jordan, and has a touch like Jason Collins. He's not a good rim protector and I hope people stop saying that for good. He has 3 blocks 9 games. Wolves backup center had that many blocks THIS game :lmao

He literally got $27M for being tall. He shot 46% from the FT line last year and instead of spending time on the gym working on it, he got even worse. Fuck advanced stats for having casuals think this scrub is good

[Sugus]

Wait for the pick and roll ball handler to return from injury. There is a reason those two are besties.

You'll see these same posters change their tune once White's back, tbh. Anyone watching the games last season is aware of White's dynamic with Poeltl, and how he fed Jakob easy buckets for days on PnRs and drives. Dejounte, for all his improvements, is a far worse handler in the PnR and doesn't look for Poeltl nearly as much, even when he's still rolling to the rim on most possessions.

[jbspurs]

This is disrespectful to Rasho, sir. Kindly take that back.

Agree! Rasho had decent mid range and can actually rebound. Poetl can't even make 2' away from the basket and
so soft, even skinny guards can push him away..

[Leetonidas]

Softest spurs center I've ever seen tbh

[KobesAchilles]

He's not playing in the wrong era. This guy sucks in any era. He has hands like Ayres, shoots free throws like Deandre Jordan, and has a touch like Jason Collins. He's not a good rim protector and I hope people stop saying that for good. He has 3 blocks 9 games. Wolves backup center had that many blocks THIS game :lmao

He literally got $27M for being tall. He shot 46% from the FT line last year and instead of spending time on the gym working on it, he got even worse. Fuck advanced stats for having casuals think this scrub is good
Yeah I agree with you on all fronts. the dude keeps getting owned by random scrubs and everybody already knows he can’t guard any all star caliber big man. Dude is not worth his contract and Derrick effing White isn’t going to suddenly change that. Made no sense to me to pay that kinda money for a back up center and everyone kept telling me he is young or he just needs more minutes. And I’m like the dude couldn’t be a starter as a top 10 pick. He must suck then just by that statement alone. Top 10 picks get more leeway than any other player. He is and always will be a back up center

[rankingtear]

He's not playing in the wrong era. This guy sucks in any era. He has hands like Ayres, shoots free throws like Deandre Jordan, and has a touch like Jason Collins. He's not a good rim protector and I hope people stop saying that for good. He has 3 blocks 9 games. Wolves backup center had that many blocks THIS game :lmao

He literally got $27M for being tall. He shot 46% from the FT line last year and instead of spending time on the gym working on it, he got even worse. Fuck advanced stats for having casuals think this scrub is good

This is the most casual thing to say.

[John B]

Wait for the pick and roll ball handler to return from injury. There is a reason those two are besties.
He had some passes down low that he missed point blank, and several turnovers throwing them out of bounds.

[tbdog]

Poeltl started both seasons with us slow. He only came a block party about half way in

[spurs1990]

Joseph Poetle with an astonishing level of futility at the free throw line.

After tonight's 0-2 he's sitting at 3 for 15 for the year.
20% FT shooting.

This guy is approaching Demare Carroll levels of disastrous contract signing.

[siraulo23]

Poeltl is fking trash, he does nothing on the court, wtf happened, is he injured, did he physically decline all of a sudden

[Texas_Ranger]

Joseph Poetle with an astonishing level of futility at the free throw line.

After tonight's 0-2 he's sitting at 3 for 15 for the year.
20% FT shooting.

This guy is approaching Demare Carroll levels of disastrous contract signing.

is there a Spurs player that deserves the contract money?

[JeffDuncan]

Poeltl is fking trash, he does nothing on the court, wtf happened, is he injured, did he physically decline all of a sudden

Tim Duncan was helping Poeltl last season, but it looks like that's all faded away now.

[Texas_Ranger]

the problem is that Poeltl is a big thats useless in this new NBA, so if the Spurs didnt sign him he wouldnt be missed.

[BillMc]

Joseph Poetle with an astonishing level of futility at the free throw line.

After tonight's 0-2 he's sitting at 3 for 15 for the year.
20% FT shooting.

This guy is approaching Demare Carroll levels of disastrous contract signing.

I'd be happy to miss free throws, not rebound and throw up soft shots for a third what they're paying Jakob! Sign me up, RC!!!!

[FireMicoHalili]

love that post-extension decline in the level of play. Always happens after a contract year. Bust your ass to get better stats, get paid, plod through the next few seasons until the next contract year.

[r0drig0lac]

the problem is that Poeltl is a big thats useless in any era, so if the Spurs didnt sign him he wouldnt be missed.
he's bad at playing basketball, it's that simple.

[cd98]

I thought he played pretty good. True he missed some shots he should've made and true is free throw shooting is bad, you can't airball a free throw. But I thought his defense was great. The Spurs played their best when he was on the court because they got stops and were able to get out in the open court. He needs to be able to contribute something on offense besides just good passing, but his defense was good, especially compared to LMA not being able to do anything on defense in the 4th. Poeltl shouldn've been playing in the 4th when we needed stops, but my guess is he didn't because of his free throw shooting.

[spurs1990]

I'd be happy to miss free throws, not rebound and throw up soft shots for a third what they're paying Jakob! Sign me up, RC!!!!

I'll undercut you BillMc. I'll offer to play for a 100th of Poetle contract and promise to hit at least 3 out of 10 FTs for them.

[Kurgan]

love that post-extension decline in the level of play. Always happens after a contract year. Bust your ass to get better stats, get paid, plod through the next few seasons until the next contract year.

Patty and Ilyasova have made themselves wealthy following this model

[Kurgan]

Still don't understand how any professional can miss more than half their FTs.

[BillMc]

I'll undercut you BillMc (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=16431). I'll offer to play for a 100th of Poetle contract and promise to hit at least 3 out of 10 FTs for them.

Ha!:lol Yep, the job is yours. Can't be worse than Jakob and much more salary cap friendly!

[Texas_Ranger]

if I had a player that said he doesnt even like playing basketball, he wouldnt be on the team. This cunt is just lucky cause he's tall.

[KobesAchilles]

He has outperformed his contract. Just look at his advance stats. They are the #1 on the whole team. Poetl plays amazing defense. His offensive game has improved so much and he has shown that it will only continue to improve. Just watch when White gets back the dude will average 12 and 10 and 2 blocks a game.

[NASpurs]

He has outperformed his contract. Just look at his advance stats. They are the #1 on the whole team. Poetl plays amazing defense. His offensive game has improved so much and he has shown that it will only continue to improve. Just watch when White gets back the dude will average 12 and 10 and 2 blocks a game.

[Jordan Jackson]

Still don't understand how any professional can miss more than half their FTs.

The part that amazes me is that most of them barely reach the rim. WTF were the Spurs thinking bring back a plodding center in this era of basketball.

[slick'81]

An absolute horrible contract for a spot playing backup center. The only upside is after this season theyre only two season left

[John B]

Poeltl is a bum! Freaking lost all confidence. Like monstar losing basketball skills overnight.

[Rummpd]

He has outperformed his contract. Just look at his advance stats. They are the #1 on the whole team. Poetl plays amazing defense. His offensive game has improved so much and he has shown that it will only continue to improve. Just watch when White gets back the dude will average 12 and 10 and 2 blocks a game.

Sigh

[rankingtear]

1350023107520688131

[Ice009]

I can't stand this guy. I don't care what the advanced stats say. I'd be able to hit 80%+ of my free throws at a fraction of the cost, and if I had his size, I'd also easily be just as good, if not a better defender and a superior rebounder. This guy got lucky with his size. And all those guys saying he needs White, that's not really what it should be based on. You can't be that co-dependent on another player to make you look like a competent NBA player. If a player can't perform without another player, then what good is that player, really? Looks like he's a mental weakling. His free throws tell the story. There is not even any fans in the building and he's shooting one of the worse free throw percentages in NBA history. Think about how shocking that is.

[r0drig0lac]

I can't stand this guy. I don't care what the advanced stats say. I'd be able to hit 80%+ of my free throws at a fraction of the cost, and if I had his size, I'd also easily be just as good, if not a better defender and a superior rebounder. This guy got lucky with his size. And all those guys saying he needs White, that's not really what is should be based on. You can't be that co-dependent on another player to make you look like a competent NBA player. If a player can't perform without another player, then what good is that player really? Looks like he's a mental weakling. His free throws tell the story. There is not even any fans in the building and he's shooting one of the worse free throw percentages in NBA history. Think about how shocking that is.

lol this, i love how some guys think this is really a valid argument

[EasyMoney]

It's not justifiable, being 7 feet tall and air balling a wide open layup. Then having the nerve to wonder where the foul was. Despicable.

[exstatic]

It's not justifiable, being 7 feet tall and air balling a wide open layup. Then having the nerve to wonder where the foul was. Despicable.

He’s not airballing them, the opponents just don’t mind fouling him, and sometimes the fouls aren’t called.

He infuriates me, but not for the same reasons as some of you. He’s pretty much elite, defensively, he just fucking stoned Wood last night, shut him down. He sets great screens and understands spacing. He just really needs to DUNK THE FUCKING BALL. No one is going to give him a layup. If he would dunk the ball like 80% of the time on rolls, he could earn that contract.

[Ice009]

He’s not airballing them, the opponents just don’t mind fouling him, and sometimes the fouls aren’t called.

He infuriates me, but not for the same reasons as some of you. He’s pretty much elite, defensively, he just fucking stoned Wood last night, shut him down. He sets great screens and understands spacing. He just really needs to DUNK THE FUCKING BALL. No one is going to give him a layup. If he would dunk the ball like 80% of the time on rolls, he could earn that contract.

Alright, you are right about the stuff you mentioned in regard to defense (I'm letting his offensive struggles blind me there), but his free throw shooting, shooting in general and finishing around the rim is shockingly bad. I've seen a lot of bad shooting centers still be able to finish when they're near the rim, but he can't even do that. When you're a bad free throw shooter, fans will probably make you miss even more free throws, but this guy is still shooting a historically low percentage despite there being no fans in the arena. I am shocked at how bad he is right now at free throws. A free throw is like an open layup for me, so I just can't fathom how someone can be as bad as he is. He's good in certain areas on the defensive side of the ball, but he is simply terrible right now on offense.

Edit : Great screen setter. I guess I should at least give him that.

[rankingtear]

Alright, you are right about the stuff you mentioned in regard to defense (I'm letting his offensive struggles blind me there), but his free throw shooting, shooting in general and finishing around the rim is shockingly bad. I've seen a lot of bad shooting centers still be able to finish when they're near the rim, but he can't even do that. When you're a bad free throw shooter, fans will probably make you miss even more free throws, but this guy is still shooting a historically low percentage despite there being no fans in the arena. I am shocked at how bad he is right now at free throws. A free throw is like an open layup for me, so I just can't fathom how someone can be as bad as he is. He's good in certain areas on the defensive side of the ball, but he is simply terrible right now on offense.

Edit : Great screen setter. I guess I should at least give him that.

Finishing at the rim is fine it's the floater range where he is struggling, he was usually efficient in that area last year. His efficiency from floater range is what makes him good in the pick and roll without being a vertical threat like a Jarret Allen or Deandre Jordan. Don't know if White can fix that but it would certainly help. Another thing is the coaching staff is trying to post him up and it is proving to be a failed experiment. The post up experiment, struggling early at the FT and the absence of White are affecting his confidence on offense right now.

Rim protection and screen setting are still there. A lot of wide open Patty looks are because of the Jakob PNR, unfortunately it does not benefit him unlike the when White is the ballhandler.

[cd98]

This is not a guy that can only legitimize himself with advanced stats. It's not hidden. It's in plain view. When he was on the floor, the Spurs were a better team, even if he underwhelmed with his offense. His defense was visibly effective in limiting the Rockets. He's a mobile big that can guard on the perimeter and in the paint. He played high level defense. We would've won the game if he closed out the 4th, unless of course they intentionally fouled him. That is what he need to improve. He has to make free throws. But if he could fix that part of his game, his defense is a game changer for the Spurs.

[RC_Drunkford]

This is not a guy that can only legitimize himself with advanced stats. It's not hidden. It's in plain view. When he was on the floor, the Spurs were a better team, even if he underwhelmed with his offense. His defense was visibly effective in limiting the Rockets. He's a mobile big that can guard on the perimeter and in the paint. He played high level defense. We would've won the game if he closed out the 4th, unless of course they intentionally fouled him. That is what he need to improve. He has to make free throws. But if he could fix that part of his game, his defense is a game changer for the Spurs.

that if has been out there for 5 years and he's shooting the worst % of his career. He won't be able to fix it and that's what most people here don't realize. They think he can develop his game when it's a fact that he can't

[cd98]

that if has been out there for 5 years and he's shooting the worst % of his career. He won't be able to fix it and that's what most people here don't realize. They think he can develop his game when it's a fact that he can't

A 36-year old Jason Kidd transformed himself into a 3 point shooter to keep his career going when he was a terrible shooter earlier in his career. Poetl can improve at free throw shooting, at least to get to an adequate level. Others have done it. He can do it.

If he can just be a 70 percent free throw shooter, his defense and passing make him a starting caliber player in the NBA, at least for how bigs are currently used.

[RC_Drunkford]

A 36-year old Jason Kidd transformed himself into a 3 point shooter to keep his career going when he was a terrible shooter earlier in his career. Poetl can improve at free throw shooting, at least to get to an adequate level. Others have done it. He can do it.

If he can just be a 70 percent free throw shooter, his defense and passing make him a starting caliber player in the NBA, at least for how bigs are currently used.

Poeltl is not Jason Kidd. Poeltl is Poeltl the turtle. He hasn't been able to add anything to his game in 5 years. You'd be right if there was constant progress in his game, but there isn't any. Besides that he has stated that basketball doesn't motivate him, so it's not like he has a determination to get better.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Poeltl regressed. Not sure what happened in the two month off season. Maybe getting set for life financially did it.

[Truckules]

His problem is solely in his scoring efficiency right now. He's got a .475 TS% which is awful. It's being weighed down by two things. One obvious issue is his FT percentage. The other less obvious one is his shooting from 3-10 feet. Here's the relevant shooting charts from bball-ref:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/tools/share.fcgi?id=iIdqS

He's shooting 25% more shots from 3-10 feet than he did last year and he's only shooting .267 from there, way down from .507 that he shot from there last year. I've not been watching the games closely enough to see why he's shooting more frequently from there and struggling. The precipitous drop from that range and from FT makes me wonder if he's tweaked his shooting form, and it's just not working right now.

He's dunking and scoring at the rim as well as he ever has but FTs and 3-10 is killing his scoring efficiency.

[rankingtear]

His problem is solely in his scoring efficiency right now. He's got a .475 TS% which is awful. It's being weighed down by two things. One obvious issue is his FT percentage. The other less obvious one is his shooting from 3-10 feet. Here's the relevant shooting charts from bball-ref:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/tools/share.fcgi?id=iIdqS

He's shooting 25% more shots from 3-10 feet than he did last year and he's only shooting .267 from there, way down from .507 that he shot from there last year. I've not been watching the games closely enough to see why he's shooting more frequently from there and struggling. The precipitous drop from that range and from FT makes me wonder if he's tweaked his shooting form, and it's just not working right now.

He's dunking and scoring at the rim as well as he ever has but FTs and 3-10 is killing his scoring efficiency.

He is posting up earlier in the season.

I wonder as well, it's broken right now. Maybe coaching staff is tweaking it. Keldon struggled with his shooting when they were tweaking it in the g-league.

[ragas]

A 36-year old Jason Kidd transformed himself into a 3 point shooter to keep his career going when he was a terrible shooter earlier in his career. Poetl can improve at free throw shooting, at least to get to an adequate level. Others have done it. He can do it.

If he can just be a 70 percent free throw shooter, his defense and passing make him a starting caliber player in the NBA, at least for how bigs are currently used.

He shot 69% in his sophomore season in college with 6.6 attempts per game. I don‘t know what happened to him after that.

[TDMVPDPOY]

shouldve brought baynes back, yes nba poster boy on the end of dunks, but he knows the system, has range, can set brick wall screens...

he got a cheaper deal then the pos mention for this thread

[Rummpd]

STIFF at any price.

[spurs1990]

By the way let us not put the blame on Poetle. He signed the contract gleefully like anyone with sense would.

The ridicule falls squarely on the shoulders of Spurs management who dared to believe his career stats weren't an indicator of future contributions.
Could they not have scouted a player or two to fill in the 18mpg Poetle plays, for a 6-5 middling ball club.

I did notice Poetle had a respectable 60% clip at the FT line during the Leonard quit season. That gives me hope this 12 game run can be excused.

https://i.ibb.co/x5KdHzn/poelte.png

[rjv]

not sure what is up with poeltl but not only are his FTs awful, so is his ability to finish at the rim. that airball layup last night was atrocious.

[TimDunkem]

sO mUcH pOtEnTiAl

[mystargtr34]

1350023107520688131

Is this guy on this forum?

[TimDunkem]

Is this guy on this forum?
That or Spurs Reddit.

[r0drig0lac]

Is this guy on this forum?
I never offended anyone on twitter and I can't see this kid's tweets, something tells me that he is one of the crazy jakob fans in st.

[KobesAchilles]

I never offended anyone on twitter and I can't see this kid's tweets, something tells me that he is one of the crazy jakob fans in st.
It’s me guys. You did it. You caught the tater. I just can’t handle this Jakob hate

[r0drig0lac]

It’s me guys. You did it. You caught the tater. I just can’t handle this Jakob hate

#sad

[poopbox]

Metu last 3 minutes for the kings was better than any 3 minute stretch Poeltl has had all year :cry

[Ice009]

Metu last 3 minutes for the kings was better than any 3 minute stretch Poeltl has had all year :cry

Is Metu still in the NBA?

[talkspurs]

Metu last 3 minutes for the kings was better than any 3 minute stretch Poeltl has had all year :cry

Might even be better then any stretch any Spur big has had this year.

[KobesAchilles]

Sad part about this thread is me arguing against everybody that it was a bad deal. That we shouldn’t be paying a back up center this kind of money. That he could never be a starter bc he isn’t good enough. There were so many red flags about h that I didn’t like.

but the reason it’s sad is bc I was right. I don’t mind being wrong as long as it benefits my team

[BackHome]

Got to give you credit Kobe you were one of the main persons arguing not to sign him from day one. On the other side I think some Flaker fan named Shakril was a big proponent for signing him to that contract saying it was cheap deal for SA.

The one that that has been discussed at length on this forum has been Centers and that the old Centers who can not hit the 3 ball were like Dinosaurs and should not be signed or kept. I was always getting blasted for wanting Nikola Mulutinov who I think is averaging 10pts and 8rbs a game.

As far as Poodle we are never going to win anything with a guy who has Zero offense it just makes that much easier for other defense to not even try to defend him and makes doubling down on players so much easier.

[Dejounte]

Sad part about this thread is me arguing against everybody that it was a bad deal. That we shouldn’t be paying a back up center this kind of money. That he could never be a starter bc he isn’t good enough. There were so many red flags about h that I didn’t like.

but the reason it’s sad is bc I was right. I don’t mind being wrong as long as it benefits my team

Again, $9 mil is back-up money in today's market. It's nothing outrageous.

[Sugus]

Again, $9 mil is back-up money in today's market. It's nothing outrageous.

Yeah, really disingenous to be twisting the argument like this. I think most posters (not now, since the awful recent play from Jakob is still fresh in our minds, but back then) would much rather have signed Jakob, than let him walk in FA to another team (it's not hard at all to imagine the trolls laughing about the "incompetent FO letting good players walk away, just like Boban, the Kawhi trade looks worse by the day, etc etc").

So it's a numbers argument at its core. And given the two scenarios, of paying Poeltl $4M/per more than you think he's worth (since most posters who were anti-resigning, KobesAchilles included I believe, rated Poeltl's value per year at something like $4-5M per year), or losing him in FA - I still think most posters would've chosen the former (and the immediate reactions after the signing was announced agree with me for the most part). It's only now, that his playing has inexplicably gone down the hill, that everyone's calling for Poeltl's head.

We can pretty safely say that Poeltl won't ever amount to a NBA starting caliber C. That's a problem for the Spurs. Is paying Jakob $9M/per a problem for the Spurs? No. Apples and oranges, people.

[DJR210]

Again, $9 mil is back-up money in today's market. It's nothing outrageous.

Agreed.. I've read the meltdowns on IG over Poeltl, and they're raging over the backup getting paid backup money over the tease we got in the bubble

[Mr. Body]

Again, $9 mil is back-up money in today's market. It's nothing outrageous.

I think Kobe thinks it's still 2003.

[rankingtear]

If you can't watch games like a scout or you don't believe in advance stats you would not see Jakob's impact on games. The way LA is playing a lot of posters would be eating crow before the season ends.

[KobesAchilles]

Yeah, really disingenous to be twisting the argument like this. I think most posters (not now, since the awful recent play from Jakob is still fresh in our minds, but back then) would much rather have signed Jakob, than let him walk in FA to another team (it's not hard at all to imagine the trolls laughing about the "incompetent FO letting good players walk away, just like Boban, the Kawhi trade looks worse by the day, etc etc").

So it's a numbers argument at its core. And given the two scenarios, of paying Poeltl $4M/per more than you think he's worth (since most posters who were anti-resigning, KobesAchilles (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=50221) included I believe, rated Poeltl's value per year at something like $4-5M per year), or losing him in FA - I still think most posters would've chosen the former (and the immediate reactions after the signing was announced agree with me for the most part). It's only now, that his playing has inexplicably gone down the hill, that everyone's calling for Poeltl's head.

We can pretty safely say that Poeltl won't ever amount to a NBA starting caliber C. That's a problem for the Spurs. Is paying Jakob $9M/per a problem for the Spurs? No. Apples and oranges, people.
It’s not really the backup I have a problem with it’s the minutes per game I thought he was gonna get. I figured he would sub 20 minutes a game. If he could play 30 minutes I would’ve been more than happy to pay him that but back up big men are a dime a dozen. Kinda like when we paid Patty 12.5 million when comparable 6th men got 8 million that year.

I also don’t like us paying $14.5 mill for a bench player, 13 for another and, 9 Jakob. Bc I don’t see Patty getting a pay cut next year tbh. And we still have to pay Lonnie

[KobesAchilles]

If you can't watch games like a scout or you don't believe in advance stats you would not see Jakob's impact on games. The way LA is playing a lot of posters would be eating crow before the season ends.
Advance stats are meaningless if he can’t finish games. That’s what people don’t understand. It’s fine that he plays good defense (though that has been up and down) in the 2nd and 3rd quarter but he’s useless in the 4th. He’s unplayable in crunch time. What are his crunch time advance stats?

[rankingtear]

Advance stats are meaningless if he can’t finish games. That’s what people don’t understand. It’s fine that he plays good defense (though that has been up and down) in the 2nd and 3rd quarter but he’s useless in the 4th. He’s unplayable in crunch time. What are his crunch time advance stats?

Weird argument to have when he just played the whole 4th today.

[Sugus]

It’s not really the backup I have a problem with it’s the minutes per game I thought he was gonna get. I figured he would sub 20 minutes a game. If he could play 30 minutes I would’ve been more than happy to pay him that but back up big men are a dime a dozen. Kinda like when we paid Patty 12.5 million when comparable 6th men got 8 million that year.

I also don’t like us paying $14.5 mill for a bench player, 13 for another and, 9 Jakob. Bc I don’t see Patty getting a pay cut next year tbh. And we still have to pay Lonnie

I have literally no idea of how many MPG Poeltl is getting right now - and I think any analysis of that, considering this is a three-year deal that we're only 10 games into, is really premature. Both Jakob and the FO hinted that he'd be getting an expanded role after this season, and that LMA will be gone. Posters who dislike Poeltl will be in dismay - "MORE minutes, to that bum?!?" I know. But it's for that reason that I'm not too serious in criticizing his current play or minutes average. Way too soon for that, IMO at least. And as rankingtear points out, he did play the entire 4th today, and was quite solid (yeah, against a depleted Rockettes team, no need to say it). With the way LMA is trending downwards, I see many more 4th quarters being closed out by Jakob - if he can stay out of foul trouble, that is.

Also, I don't follow the players' salaries close enough to tell which players you're referencing (leave it to ST to make me feel like a casual when I know more about this damned team that most fucking fans :lol); but in any case, that's not really a problem to do with Poeltl's contract per se, is it? More like a FO problem with handing out large contracts to vets ('cause I'm certain those are vets' salaries you're pointing out). To answer you, I don't think Mills is on the team after next season at all, so that's one less problem - neither Rudy, with the way he's playing, nor LMA, for the same reason. DDR is a tossup, sadly, since I want him the fuck gone..... But again, not related to Jakob's deal.

That's been my point from the beginning. $9M is not an overpay for a player of Jakob's caliber (and to once again make it clear, he has NOT been playing up to his "caliber" this season, and I could find myself agreeing with your take a year from now if he keeps up the shitty play); center backups are cheap, but most don't provide the elite defense and screen-setting that Jak does, which is really valuable for a guard-heavy team like the Spurs. Ideally, we sign a Jarret Allen-like starting C next season, who can finish lobs and be a scoring threat on top of rebounding, and leave Jakob to power up a defensive-minded bench. We'll see whether Spurs FO agrees with my plans or not, I guess.

[KobesAchilles]

Weird argument to have when he just played the whole 4th today.
One 4th quarter? That’s the counter argument? What about the other 11 games?

[spurraider21]

poodle has a game like this and people cream their pants while saying they want no part of drummond? :lol

[KobesAchilles]

I have literally no idea of how many MPG Poeltl is getting right now - and I think any analysis of that, considering this is a three-year deal that we're only 10 games into, is really premature. Both Jakob and the FO hinted that he'd be getting an expanded role after this season, and that LMA will be gone. Posters who dislike Poeltl will be in dismay - "MORE minutes, to that bum?!?" I know. But it's for that reason that I'm not too serious in criticizing his current play or minutes average. Way too soon for that, IMO at least. And as rankingtear (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=44897) points out, he did play the entire 4th today, and was quite solid (yeah, against a depleted Rockettes team, no need to say it). With the way LMA is trending downwards, I see many more 4th quarters being closed out by Jakob - if he can stay out of foul trouble, that is.

Also, I don't follow the players' salaries close enough to tell which players you're referencing (leave it to ST to make me feel like a casual when I know more about this damned team that most fucking fans :lol); but in any case, that's not really a problem to do with Poeltl's contract per se, is it? More like a FO problem with handing out large contracts to vets ('cause I'm certain those are vets' salaries you're pointing out). To answer you, I don't think Mills is on the team after next season at all, so that's one less problem - neither Rudy, with the way he's playing, nor LMA, for the same reason. DDR is a tossup, sadly, since I want him the fuck gone..... But again, not related to Jakob's deal.

That's been my point from the beginning. $9M is not an overpay for a player of Jakob's caliber (and to once again make it clear, he has NOT been playing up to his "caliber" this season, and I could find myself agreeing with your take a year from now if he keeps up the shitty play); center backups are cheap, but most don't provide the elite defense and screen-setting that Jak does, which is really valuable for a guard-heavy team like the Spurs. Ideally, we sign a Jarret Allen-like starting C next season, who can finish lobs and be a scoring threat on top of rebounding, and leave Jakob to power up a defensive-minded bench. We'll see whether Spurs FO agrees with my plans or not, I guess.
I agree with you on a vacuum but not for this team. Pop was never going to play him starter minutes. I went off his whole career to tell me what type of minutes he was going to play. And that’s where I saw a red flag. Dude has never managed to earn 20 minutes a game ONCE in his whole career when he was a Top 10 pick. That’s not normal and it’s definitely not a good thing. Like imagine if we picked Vassell and he didn’t crack 20 minutes a game once in his entire career. That’s not a pick people would be clamoring about how good it was. My projection going forward (at the time we signed him) was that he wasn’t going to be getting minutes. I think I said he would be getting 18 a game which is right where he is at. He’s a weird player where like he does all the small things we need and when his head is right he’s a good defender against lower level big men. Against all stars he’s useless which is also why I’m not high on advance stats. Yeah he plays great against no names but he has to guard AD and Jokic and Ayton and Nurkic and Gobert. He isn’t going to be playing bums in the playoffs. I’m not even sure he can guard Wiseman.

I’m just tired of the advance stat argument. Advanced stats don’t mean shit for a guy who plays so little minutes. So it’s disingenuous to act like if only we played him 35 minutes a game he would be even better than he is now. Both him and his fans need to accept his role and accepts that he is never going to be a starter and not whine about wanting more minutes I would be ok with him. He’s a good back up center. I’m not saying any different. I just wish people would stop projecting for him. He is what he is. He’s not going to get better offensively (except hopefully free throw %), he’s not going to be a strong dunker or a part of our offense. This is going to be him for the next 3 years.

Also Pop has favorites. He just does. Mills is going to be on the team next year. He’s getting a 2 year deal I believe (probably 3 with a team option on the 3rd). And the way he has been playing he deserves one.

[Sugus]

poodle has a game like this and people cream their pants while saying they want no part of drummond? :lol

Poeltl could score 0 points the entirety of this season, and I still wouldn't want any part of Drummond, tbh :wakeup

[Sugus]

I agree with you on a vacuum but not for this team. Pop was never going to play him starter minutes. I went off his whole career to tell me what type of minutes he was going to play. And that’s where I saw a red flag. Dude has never managed to earn 20 minutes a game ONCE in his whole career when he was a Top 10 pick. That’s not normal and it’s definitely not a good thing. Like imagine if we picked Vassell and he didn’t crack 20 minutes a game once in his entire career. That’s not a pick people would be clamoring about how good it was. My projection going forward (at the time we signed him) was that he wasn’t going to be getting minutes. I think I said he would be getting 18 a game which is right where he is at. He’s a weird player where like he does all the small things we need and when his head is right he’s a good defender against lower level big men. Against all stars he’s useless which is also why I’m not high on advance stats. Yeah he plays great against no names but he has to guard AD and Jokic and Ayton and Nurkic and Gobert. He isn’t going to be playing bums in the playoffs. I’m not even sure he can guard Wiseman.

I’m just tired of the advance stat argument. Advanced stats don’t mean shit for a guy who plays so little minutes. So it’s disingenuous to act like if only we played him 35 minutes a game he would be even better than he is now. Both him and his fans need to accept his role and accepts that he is never going to be a starter and not whine about wanting more minutes I would be ok with him. He’s a good back up center. I’m not saying any different. I just wish people would stop projecting for him. He is what he is. He’s not going to get better offensively (except hopefully free throw %), he’s not going to be a strong dunker or a part of our offense. This is going to be him for the next 3 years.

Also Pop has favorites. He just does. Mills is going to be on the team next year. He’s getting a 2 year deal I believe (probably 3 with a team option on the 3rd). And the way he has been playing he deserves one.

Woo, can I say I really like your posts? Not every poster comes at my lengthy arguments with lengthy arguments of their own, tbh. That in itself is commendable, I respect it.

We're getting closer and closer to agreement here, my guy. Regarding his pick status, that's simply a sunken cost fallacy - you shouldn't evaluate Poeltl in regards to where he was picked, that's long past (and wasn't even the Spurs, and the Raps happened to pick him while they had an abundance of solid big men in Ibaka, Gasol et al for their championship run years (bad pick use, tbh)). As to his MPG, I understand you're saying he's not worth the amount we gave him, for the low amount of minutes we'll play him, right? Since you'd clearly be pissed off at Jakob playing more :lol. In which case, we can simply disagree, as I don't think $9M in this modern NBA is anything close to an overpay for a backup big (and most of the contracts signed this off-season, many on the same amount for lesser players, back it up). You have to take into account here the logistics of the actual deal taking place as well: Poeltl was being courted by other teams offering him deals for a bigger amount than the Spurs could offer, which he didn't sign, and the Spurs signed him to almost every penny they could give up whilst staying below the luxury tax line. It was a compromise on both parts by nature, and again I go back to the argument that I'd much rather have him at $9M/per, than lose him for nothing at all, which was the only other outcome.

I haven't once (seriously) checked Poeltl's advanced stats, hilariously enough. I only go by my eye test of his on-court play, and the basic statistics available (and some random stuff from TW that's posted here occasionally, I guess). As of this season, I'm pretty good with accepting him as our long-term career backup big, which isn't too shabby a role, and something he could be great at - definitely something you keep him for. It's not that he couldn't start for some lower teams, he's just nowhere near as impactful on offense if the Spurs are serious about contending in the near future - even if he improves his FTs a bit, he just doesn't have the coordination, speed, nor skill. In that regard, I agree wholeheartedly, and the Raptors definitely floundered their pick in retrospect (though I doubt they care at all right now, sitting on their ring after dumping him to us on the Neph trade).

I'm perfectly content keeping this Jakob for 3 more years (the Jakob of last season I mean, not the shitty start of this season's). The problem right now, is that LMA's awful play, and our lack of other rotational bigs with Eubanks out, is forcing Jak to play more than he'd need to. That's not Jakob's problem, but the Spurs', and I'd love for them to address it sooner than later; though we'll probably have to ride out LMA's deal since there's no team that will trade for him right now.

In my perfect scenario, we tank the season starting from after the ASB (or whenever it was supposed to be held, since it's been cancelled), draft a Wiseman-level athletic big from next years' loaded draft, then trot out a similar starting unit to this years', with DD and LMA gone and maybe a FA-signed PF. Then, you run White off the bench (to preserve his body, if anything), who has great chemistry with Jakob. Not too shabby at all, tbh, but we'll see what happens.

E: I definitely don't think Jakob can guard Wiseman, btw, he'd get cooked and probably will get cooked whenever we play GSW. He's not the best against mobile C's, like today's matchup against Wood.

[spurraider21]

Poeltl could score 0 points the entirety of this season, and I still wouldn't want any part of Drummond, tbh :wakeup
worst rebounding team in the league, have been soft inside on both ends of the floor, and wanting no part of a player who would help in all those areas, who while currently overpaid, is an expiring contract?

weird

[Elementis]

We're getting closer and closer to agreement here, my guy. Regarding his pick status, that's simply a sunken cost fallacy - you shouldn't evaluate Poeltl in regards to where he was picked, that's long past (and wasn't even the Spurs, and the Raps happened to pick him while they had an abundance of solid big men in Ibaka, Gasol et al for their championship run years (bad pick use, tbh)).

just for technicality: Poeltl was drafted a year before Gasol joined the Raports. he was drafted (and played) as backup to Valancunis with Ibaka at the 4. though like LMA, they partly played Ibaka at the 5 due to being too flat-footed for a 4 on defense

[Sugus]

worst rebounding team in the league, have been soft inside on both ends of the floor, and wanting no part of a player who would help in all those areas, who while currently overpaid, is an expiring contract?

weird

Yes. Drummond's rebounds are empty calories - he regularly has plays where he racks up 2-3 extra rebounds, just because he's so ridiculously awful at finishing around the rim. People complaining about Poeltl would rip out their hair watching Drummond try to score. Bringing him in for rebounding is like bringing Westbrook in for the same purpose. Adding to that, he's one of the worse defending C's in the league, far worse than Poeltl, while costing more than double his price while not a big upgrade on offense (and yes, he's expiring, but will still demand over $10M/per in FA, perhaps as much as $15M). He's nothing that we need beyond a rebounder, and considering there's other rebounding bigs who also bring other qualities to their game (vertical spacing, shooting, interior defense, perimeter defense, playmaking; none of which Drummond does effectively), I'd much rather use that cap space on other players.

The upper level of what I'd pay Drummond is Poeltl money, and he clearly won't want that. So no, I'm not interested at all.

[Sugus]

just for technicality: Poeltl was drafted a year before Gasol joined the Raports. he was drafted (and played) as backup to Valancunis with Ibaka at the 4. though like LMA, they partly played Ibaka at the 5 due to being too flat-footed for a 4 on defense

Duly noted, though I was more speaking on Poeltl always being second or third C on the rotation since being drafted, since the Raps always had better bigs to put on the floor (as you say, they already had Valanciunas, and that #9 pick would've been much better used on a wing or perimeter player). Jakob was just part of the "bench mob", as they called it: he was always behind Jonas, then Ibaka, then Gasol. What I was getting at, was that nevermind his drafting position, he should be judged for how he's played, not with those draftee expectations, since it wasn't even the Spurs who picked him.

[spurraider21]

Yes. Drummond's rebounds are empty calories - he regularly has plays where he racks up 2-3 extra rebounds, just because he's so ridiculously awful at finishing around the rim. People complaining about Poeltl would rip out their hair watching Drummond try to score. Bringing him in for rebounding is like bringing Westbrook in for the same purpose. Adding to that, he's one of the worse defending C's in the league, far worse than Poeltl, while costing more than double his price while not a big upgrade on offense (and yes, he's expiring, but will still demand over $10M/per in FA, perhaps as much as $15M). He's nothing that we need beyond a rebounder, and considering there's other rebounding bigs who also bring other qualities to their game (vertical spacing, shooting, interior defense, perimeter defense, playmaking; none of which Drummond does effectively), I'd much rather use that cap space on other players.

The upper level of what I'd pay Drummond is Poeltl money, and he clearly won't want that. So no, I'm not interested at all.
I must be delusional then, if Drummond is a worse finisher than poodle. Or im getting punked

[Sugus]

I must be delusional then, if Drummond is a worse finisher than poodle. Or im getting punked

You're probably just delusional :wakeup.

Let's take a look at the stats. All from last season.

Drummond Vs. Poeltl:

FG%: .552 VS .624

2P%: .593 VS .624

eFG%: .571 VS .624

AST/STL/BLK/TOV:

1.8/1.5/1.4/3.6 VS 1.8/0.6/1.4/0.8

Not a compelling argument for Drummond; he's incredibly inefficient for someone with his rebounding ability and presence around the rim. Poeltl has a slightly worse FT%, and doesn't shoot 3's at all so his field goal percentages are unaffected (meanwhile, Drummond shot 1.8 3PA at .286, or %28, awful as well). Yes, he scores more points, and he's a historical (empty stats) rebounder, but does he really play so much better than Poeltl, as to warrant more than double the pay? The stats say no, tbh... And I'm not even posting the advanced stats, which all favor Jakob (especially on defense) and paint Drummond in an even worse light.

Don't go full eye test, my guy. I stand by my comments - Drummond is not worth it and I would not want him on the Spurs.

[spurraider21]

what would poodles FG% be if he wasn’t just finishing possessions where he is spoonfed in the restricted area but asked to generate looks like Drummond? I mean, poodles FG% is better than Duncan’s too :lol

[Ocotillo]

Wednesday night we play Wiseman. This thread will be back towards the top of the message board no matter what happens.

[Rummpd]

How can anyone this "eyeball test" bad as JP deserve 9 million a year? Regardless of any advanced stats guy is a stiff.

[spurraider21]

Jakob “actually better than Andre Drummond” Poeltl

[Sugus]

what would poodles FG% be if he wasn’t just finishing possessions where he is spoonfed in the restricted area but asked to generate looks like Drummond? I mean, poodles FG% is better than Duncan’s too :lol

I don't know what it could be - I know what it is, tbh. Maybe Drummond's percentages (and it's not about percentages at all, but rather the way he plays, which doesn't correlate with his talent level, the amount he's paid nor his role on the teams he's been in). Could Drummond be a better Poeltl if he were in a Poeltl role? Pretty certainly. But he's not, because he himself insists on not playing that way, which you weirdly and consistently ignore. Again, he brings some value in a vacuum - I'm saying he's not worth either the money, the opportunity cost, nor the skillset for this Spurs team. Give me a shooting 5, a playmaking 5, a defensive-minded 5, or even a rebounding 5 that's not as much of a defensive woe nor offensive blackhole as Drummond is, any day of the week, instead of Drummond himself.

Comparing Poeltl's FG% to Duncan's is hilariously stupid, ignores all context, and undermines your point.


Jakob “actually better than Andre Drummond” Poeltl

...And now you've lost all nuance. Quote me where I said that, or GTFO. Can posters in this board only think in absolutes? My fucking god...

[spurraider21]

I don't know what it could be - I know what it is, tbh. Maybe Drummond's percentages (and it's not about percentages at all, but rather the way he plays, which doesn't correlate with his talent level, the amount he's paid nor his role on the teams he's been in). Could Drummond be a better Poeltl if he were in a Poeltl role? Pretty certainly. But he's not, because he himself insists on not playing that way, which you weirdly and consistently ignore. Again, he brings some value in a vacuum - I'm saying he's not worth either the money, the opportunity cost, nor the skillset for this Spurs team. Give me a shooting 5, a playmaking 5, a defensive-minded 5, or even a rebounding 5 that's not as much of a defensive woe nor offensive blackhole as Drummond is, any day of the week, instead of Drummond himself.

Comparing Poeltl's FG% to Duncan's is hilariously stupid, ignores all context, and undermines your point.



...And now you've lost all nuance. Quote me where I said that, or GTFO. Can posters in this board only think in absolutes? My fucking god...
its exactly what you've done by comparing poodle's FG% to Drummond's though... in an effort to prove up Poeltl being a more effective finisher :lol

[Sugus]

Wednesday night we play Wiseman. This thread will be back towards the top of the message board no matter what happens.

I can't wait for people to completely dismiss the fact that we're paying LMA like, $20M this season, to directly matchup against starting bigs like Wiseman, and jump to complaining that our backup big isn't up to par, tbh. Will keep me up all night, every night, until the game.

[spurraider21]

...And now you've lost all nuance. Quote me where I said that, or GTFO. Can posters in this board only think in absolutes? My fucking god...
in one post you said Poeltl is a much better defender, and in another post you've said he's a more effective finisher on offense.

apparently he's the better player on both ends of the court, but i'm missing "nuance" by saying your take is that poeltl is a better player than drummond

[Collins21]

in one post you said Poeltl is a much better defender, and in another post you've said he's a more effective finisher on offense.

apparently he's the better player on both ends of the court, but i'm missing "nuance" by saying your take is that poeltl is a better player than drummond

Poetl sucks period!!! These people will use nuance and logic to explain why he sucks while ignoring context for other players.

[Sugus]

its exactly what you've done by comparing poodle's FG% to Drummond's though... in an effort to prove up Poeltl being a more effective finisher :lol

Hooo boy, let's try this one more time, 'kay? I compared Poeltl's and Drummond's stats (many stats, not only FG%, thanks for ignoring the context on the rest of my post), to show both that Drummond is an extremely inefficient scorer (which is DIRECTLY RELATED to his inflated, empty stats, rebounding - can you understand that he misses so many shots at the rim, that he ends up with many more rebounds than other centers would have gotten given the same plays, because he's having to tip in or re-finish most of his plays? Is this too hard an analysis for you?), and that Poeltl isn't the "piece of shit" scorer that posters here would make it seem. As I said, and repeat, Poeltl's and Drummond's offensive games are not so far apart as to warrant the much higher pay and possession usage that Drummond comes along with. And once again: Drummond doesn't shoot, doesn't space the floor, doesn't playmake, can't dribble or penetrate, can't defend.

So in that context, yes, it's useful to compare Jak's and Drum's stats, since it helps to explain the rest of his game (and my distaste for it). Timmy, OTOH, was both a much more prolific scorer, an offensive (and defensive) powerhouse, a focal point of offense that could win you playoff series by himself by hard carrying. I couldn't give less of a shit what his percentages are, because his value to the team is evident enough just by watching him, and also because you can suffer through not-so-efficient play when the results are there to show for it. Which again, they aren't for Drummond, as he doesn't impact winning like his inflated stats would suggest.

Anything else I have to explain to you like a five-year-old, so you understand where I'm getting at? You seem awfully fixated in ignoring every sensible part of my posts, and twisting whatever you can into your own narrative just to laugh it off, tbh. Hardly as good of a look as you think it is, I promise you.

[Sugus]

in one post you said Poeltl is a much better defender, and in another post you've said he's a more effective finisher on offense.

apparently he's the better player on both ends of the court, but i'm missing "nuance" by saying your take is that poeltl is a better player than drummond

How is being a more effective finisher -> a better player? Are you stupid? Let's take it the other way around, then: Poeltl is the much, much worse rebounder, the worse dribbler (hardly a high bar, but it's there), the worse playmaker (another low bar). Offense is so much more than what you're trying to reduct it to just to get your point across.

But the counterpoint to this, is that Jakob is a very effective defensive presence, playing in the most important and impactful position in basketball for there to be a defensive-minded player. It's much harder for a bad defending C to "make it up" on offense and be a net-positive player, than it is for a bad defensive guard to do the same thing, because you suddenly can't anchor your team's defense on your big man, whereas no defenses are anchored on guards or have them play foundational roles on them. Seriously, dude, it's like you throw shit at the wall just to "prove me wrong" by jumping to conclusions based on what I (didn't) said.

[spurraider21]

Hooo boy, let's try this one more time, 'kay? I compared Poeltl's and Drummond's stats (many stats, not only FG%, thanks for ignoring the context on the rest of my post), to show both that Drummond is an extremely inefficient scorer (which is DIRECTLY RELATED to his inflated, empty stats, rebounding - can you understand that he misses so many shots at the rim, that he ends up with many more rebounds than other centers would have gotten given the same plays, because he's having to tip in or re-finish most of his plays?
is there any data behind this meme? isn't he also the best defensive rebounder in the league, which cuts against the argument that his rebounding numbers are just inflated/manufactured?


Is this too hard an analysis for you?), and that Poeltl isn't the "piece of shit" scorer that posters here would make it seem. As I said, and repeat, Poeltl's and Drummond's offensive games are not so far apart as to warrant the much higher pay and possession usage that Drummond comes along with. And once again: Drummond doesn't shoot, doesn't space the floor, doesn't playmake, can't dribble or penetrate, can't defend.
this just tells me you dont really know how drummond plays. a ton of his points come from putting the ball on the floor and taking his defender off the dribble

the rest of your post goes off this faulty assumption that drummond and poeltl's offensive game are so similar that its fair to compare their raw FG% (and derivate stats of that such as eFG and 2PT%)

[spurraider21]

How is being a more effective finisher -> a better player? Are you stupid? Let's take it the other way around, then: Poeltl is the much, much worse rebounder, the worse dribbler (hardly a high bar, but it's there), the worse playmaker (another low bar). Offense is so much more than what you're trying to reduct it to just to get your point across.
but you've also implied that Drummond and Poeltl's offensive game is so similar and that drummond's raw numbers are only better because of volume... so even if offense is more than just finishing, you've already said they're functionally the same and poeltl is just better

look, just in case this was all a misunderstanding, let me get some clarity.

would you rather have Poeltl on his current contract, or would you rather have Drummond at that same contract?

[Sugus]

How can anyone this "eyeball test" bad as JP deserve 9 million a year? Regardless of any advanced stats guy is a stiff.

Yeah, he's so stiff and bad that he had not only one, but multiple teams offering him bigger offer sheets than the Spurs could match by the deadline :rolleyes. Will you also acknowledge you'd be the first to clown the FO for not matching him and letting him walk, had he signed those sheets? Something about this incompetent FO that can't retain any good players, Kawhi trade looking worse and worse by the day, etc? :wakeup


Poetl sucks period!!! These people will use nuance and logic to explain why he sucks while ignoring context for other players.

Do tell me what other players' context I'm ignoring, please. I try to be very nuanced in my evaluations, often leading to very long posts that I'm sure posters like you don't even bother reading :lol but I hardly make quick, shallow judgements like that. By the by, Poeltl doesn't really suck, he just doesn't have starting player-caliber offense to his game. You want to see players who actually suck? Try turning on some Kings games... Then go and look at how much the Kangz are paying some of those players. Then, come back and tell me Poeltl is hugely overpaid.

Go on, I'll wait.

[Collins21]

Yeah, he's so stiff and bad that he had not only one, but multiple teams offering him bigger offer sheets than the Spurs could match by the deadline :rolleyes. Will you also acknowledge you'd be the first to clown the FO for not matching him and letting him walk, had he signed those sheets? Something about this incompetent FO that can't retain any good players, Kawhi trade looking worse and worse by the day, etc? :wakeup

Do tell me what other players' context I'm ignoring, please. I try to be very nuanced in my evaluations, often leading to very long posts that I'm sure posters like you don't even bother reading :lol but I hardly make quick, shallow judgements like that. By the by, Poeltl doesn't really suck, he just doesn't have starting player-caliber offense to his game. You want to see players who actually suck? Try turning on some Kings games... Then go and look at how much the Kangz are paying some of those players. Then, come back and tell me Poeltl is hugely overpaid.

Go on, I'll wait.

Every big on the kings outside of Metu is better than Poetl. You Put Holmes or Bagley on this team and the team celing is higher than it is with Poetl. Dude makes 9 million a year and he's made TWO free throws all year. He's a stiff. People think LMA is bad on the perimeter but Jakob got blown by repeatedly by PJ tucker. That good defense goes out the window when he plays against a good offensive big. It was disgusting watching him try to guard Towns, Wood or Davis. There was no diffeence in the job he did on them and the job LMA did on them and that;s a problem since Poetl is supposed to be an "elite defender"

[KingKev]

Every big on the kings outside of Metu is better than Poetl. You Put Holmes or Bagley on this team and the team celing is higher than it is with Poetl. Dude makes 9 million a year and he's made TWO free throws all year. He's a stiff. People think LMA is bad on the perimeter but Jakob got blown by repeatedly by PJ tucker. That good defense goes out the window when he plays against a good offensive big. It was disgusting watching him try to guard Towns, Wood or Davis. There was no diffeence in the job he did on them and the job LMA did on them and that;s a problem since Poetl is supposed to be an "elite defender"


he was an RFA, if he was offered bigger offer sheets we would had to match or am I missing something?

sorry i quoted the wrong post - was for Sugus claiming Poetl had multiple larger offers

[SpursDynasty85]

Signing Poetl is smart especially if LMA is traded or if he leaves next offseason.

[John B]

finally a block by Aldridge

[spurraider21]

naturally poeltl playing his best ball today :lol

[cd021]

Jakob dominated on the offensive glass today :tu played well tbh.

[Sugus]

is there any data behind this meme? isn't he also the best defensive rebounder in the league, which cuts against the argument that his rebounding numbers are just inflated/manufactured?

Lmao, why do you call it a "meme"? It's factual. Would you call Westbrook's inflated rebounding numbers a "meme" as well? Nah. Are you beginning to understand why I posted his FG% earlier? Someone with his rebounding ability and (supposedly by you) good/great finishing ability in the rim should never have such awful percentages - how else can you explain it? Tbh, now that I think about it, how about you try and explain it to me? Because it sure doesn't make any sense, unless I'm right that A. his rebounding numbers do not translate to the offensive opportunities that other similar bigs generate, or B. he's not a good finisher and has inflated stats due to regularly catching his own misses. I've spent way too much time on this discussion explaining things to you, a change of pace would be nice.


this just tells me you dont really know how drummond plays. a ton of his points come from putting the ball on the floor and taking his defender off the dribble

the rest of your post goes off this faulty assumption that drummond and poeltl's offensive game are so similar that its fair to compare their raw FG% (and derivate stats of that such as eFG and 2PT%)

You're telling me you don't understand how his rebounds are inflated, yet I'm the one who doesn't know how he plays? Ok :lol

I said - and I say once again - that Drummond's offensive value to a team is not worth the amount that he is paid, wants to be paid, and probably will be paid. However you want to spin it, whatever tangent we can go on, it remains a fundamental point for me. I would rather have Jakob at his price, than Drummond at his, invariably. Especially considering Drummond's many limitations, which you've consistently failed to address in your glorification of him and trashing of Poeltl.

[Mugen]

Jakob might be the worst player ever when starting a season. 3 years in a row where it's taken him about a month to thaw tbh.

[Sugus]

but you've also implied that Drummond and Poeltl's offensive game is so similar and that drummond's raw numbers are only better because of volume... so even if offense is more than just finishing, you've already said they're functionally the same and poeltl is just better

look, just in case this was all a misunderstanding, let me get some clarity.

would you rather have Poeltl on his current contract, or would you rather have Drummond at that same contract?

No, I didn't...... My fucking god. Literally quote me saying "they're functionally the same". I'm absolutely certain I've never strung those words together in this thread. What a stupid ass, you can't even quote me right. Fucks sake. I gotta argue not only against your points, but the fake points you make up for me? Fuck that.

I'll get you clarity: it makes literally no sense to say whether you'd have player A at his salary, or player B at player A's salary. Reality doesn't work like that. Would you rather have LeBron at Poeltl's salary, or....? That's how dumb you sound. Here's the fact: Drummond will NEVER be paid Poeltl salary, because he's an inflated stats player, and like such, he'll demand a paygrade above his production level. Yes, in a vacuum, I'd like to have Drummond on bench big money (and bench big role, tbh, behind a shooting 5), but what the fuck is the point of that discussion if it literally doesn't have a chance to materialize? To be more pragmatic, and say it again: I would rather have Jakob at Jakob's salary, than Drummond at Drummond's salary. Because I can find better uses to that difference in pay, than the on-court impact that both players have (which IS NOT THE SAME!!!! as saying they're "functionally the same", you numbnut).

Can I be any more clear on this? Jakob heard you talking shit, btw... :lol

[Sugus]

he was an RFA, if he was offered bigger offer sheets we would had to match or am I missing something?

sorry i quoted the wrong post - was for Sugus claiming Poetl had multiple larger offers

Yes, he was an RFA - but the Spurs were really close to the Lux Tax line before re-signing Poeltl, and any of the other teams' offers that he could sign (and the Spurs could match) would've put the team over the luxury line, making them lose not only the revenue money from the other lux-tax-paying teams, but also having to pay a (small) amount of money for being over the line themselves.

So both parties reached a compromise: Poeltl agreed to stay with us, and didn't even sign the other sheets (which, BTW, would've forced the Spurs into paying him even more, maybe as much as $10-15M depending on the offer), and the Spurs paid him almost every penny they had left before reaching the tax line. A compromise that every party, except for the never satisfied hordes of ST trolls, is happy with.

[Sugus]

Every big on the kings outside of Metu is better than Poetl. You Put Holmes or Bagley on this team and the team celing is higher than it is with Poetl. Dude makes 9 million a year and he's made TWO free throws all year. He's a stiff. People think LMA is bad on the perimeter but Jakob got blown by repeatedly by PJ tucker. That good defense goes out the window when he plays against a good offensive big. It was disgusting watching him try to guard Towns, Wood or Davis. There was no diffeence in the job he did on them and the job LMA did on them and that;s a problem since Poetl is supposed to be an "elite defender"

You're all over the place on this, failing to address my original point (why do you jump into a discussion to argue things that weren't previously being argued? I'll respond anyways, but keep it in mind).

You're not all wrong here. I really like Holmes, he's a great big and on a GREAT deal in terms of pay/production (he's being paid something ridiculous like $5M a year, if I'm not mistaken). But what does it have to do with the Spurs? You want me to just start naming the random bigs that are better on other teams, and circlejerk-salivate over them, tbh? Like Bagley... Bagley was a #2 pick. Yes, he's better than Poeltl and has a higher ceiling - what the fuck does it matter in relation to my point? I guess you're saying this because of where I said "You want to see players who actually suck? Try turning on some Kings games..."? In which case, I meant the team as a whole, not a specific player, and they do suck. I've been watching them since I like Haliburton and Fox (we could talk about Fox being better than, idk, Patty? If it ruffles your feathers :lol).

Anyways, Poeltl is a solid bench big. I stand by my comment - he does not suck. He proved it today, again (not like there wasn't entire seasons of data to conclude that he does not, in fact, suck). Is he a bit too stiff for my liking? Yes. Could he rebound more? Yes. Will he have trouble guarding the elite bigs of the league? Probably, yes. That has nothing to do with the fact that I'm glad he's still on the team, that he brings a lot of value to the Spurs, that every Spurs player likes playing with him, and that he's got a lot more good qualities than bad ones. But sure, let's all compare him to other teams' lottery pick (and lottery-paid) bigs and bring him down, why not? I'm free 'till 7, tbh :wakeup

[Sugus]

Jakob might be the worst player ever when starting a season. 3 years in a row where it's taken him about a month to thaw tbh.

Bold of you to assume he's out of his slump after only one good game, tbh. I'm already prepared for a letdown next game and this thread lighting up again :lmao

[spurraider21]

No, I didn't...... My fucking god. Literally quote me saying "they're functionally the same". I'm absolutely certain I've never strung those words together in this thread. What a stupid ass, you can't even quote me right. Fucks sake. I gotta argue not only against your points, but the fake points you make up for me? Fuck that.

I'll get you clarity: it makes literally no sense to say whether you'd have player A at his salary, or player B at player A's salary. Reality doesn't work like that. Would you rather have LeBron at Poeltl's salary, or....? That's how dumb you sound. Here's the fact: Drummond will NEVER be paid Poeltl salary, because he's an inflated stats player, and like such, he'll demand a paygrade above his production level. Yes, in a vacuum, I'd like to have Drummond on bench big money (and bench big role, tbh, behind a shooting 5), but what the fuck is the point of that discussion if it literally doesn't have a chance to materialize? To be more pragmatic, and say it again: I would rather have Jakob at Jakob's salary, than Drummond at Drummond's salary. Because I can find better uses to that difference in pay, than the on-court impact that both players have (which IS NOT THE SAME!!!! as saying they're "functionally the same", you numbnut).

Can I be any more clear on this? Jakob heard you talking shit, btw... :lol
ok, so you'd rather have drummond than poeltl if the money were equal. thanks for conforming that he's a better player than poeltl.

now i wonder, why do you value drummond more than poeltl if jakob is better on defense and drummond is a terrible finisher on offense?

as an aside, while drummond is grossly overpaid, i'd prefer drummond on a big expiring deal to Poeltl on a 3/27 deal

[Mugen]

Bold of you to assume he's out of his slump after only one good game, tbh. I'm already prepared for a letdown next game and this thread lighting up again :lmao

10 blocks over the last 4 games, I think it's safe to say he's thawing tbh.