Jakob Poeltl is finalizing a three-year, near $27M deal to return to San Antonio

[BatManu20]

Bad game from Poodle. His offensive limitations really shine on a team that already struggles to score. The only silver lining is that he’s only 25. Splitter didn’t hit his stride til his late 20’s either.

[r0drig0lac]

I hate Gobert, but I am offended by him with the whole "?% Gobert" take, the difference in talent is so big that it is a useless battle.

[TheGreatYacht]

I’ve seen enough. Drew Eubanks is better at every facet of the game. Start him over this charmin soft pussy.

[murpjf88]

Bad game from Poodle. His offensive limitations really shine on a team that already struggles to score. The only silver lining is that he’s only 25. Splitter didn’t hit his stride til his late 20’s either.
Poodle has peaked. He's unskilled, unathletic, can't shoot beyond two feet and plays defense by fouling the opponent. He's only going to get worse with age.

[BackHome]

Poor man’s Tiago Splitter minus the health issues

Don't insult Tiago like that :madrun

[John B]

This guy needs to be constantly kicked in the ass?

[C-Dub]

Jakob would be more offensively productive if D. White ran the offense sets more. White has more of an point gaurd court vision and IQ. I really like DJM and think that he should undoubtedly be part of the starting lineup but he shouldn't control the ball more than White does. Problem with that is, DJM is not as reliable as White is as a spot up or catch and shoot player so he has to handle the ball more. Poo has dummied down DJM playbook so that he can be a plus contributor and not commit untimely turnovers and most of his assists are from dummied down set up pick and pop plays. If his teammates jumper is falling he'll end up with 6 to 9 assists, if their jumper isn't falling he usually ends up with 2 to 3 assists. If D. White handled the ball as much as DJM, he would probably average about 8 to assist a game and get other players easier shots rolling or cutting to the basket. I still believe DJM should start, especially for defensive purposes but - Just Saying.

[KobesAchilles]

I said that Poeltl’s lack of offense would hurt us if we started him next year sans Demar. But nope everyone here shit on me saying his defense was great and how dumb I was. He doesn’t need to be able to score. He effects the game positively in other ways that will offset his lack of being able to make a lay up. Hey what do you know? I was right all along and all these Poodle slurpers are quiet as a fucking church mouse right now. They won’t even show up in this thread to defend their man :lol

[rankingtear]

I said that Poeltl’s lack of offense would hurt us if we started him next year sans Demar. But nope everyone here shit on me saying his defense was great and how dumb I was. He doesn’t need to be able to score. He effects the game positively in other ways that will offset his lack of being able to make a lay up. Hey what do you know? I was right all along and all these Poodle slurpers are quiet as a fucking church mouse right now. They won’t even show up in this thread to defend their man :lol

Huh? Demar was out.

[The Truth #6]

In his defense, he keeps the ball moving and sets solid screens so the team offense is more than just 1-1. But yeah, obviously, his own offensive skills are limited. But is getting blown out all on him? Until White regains his footing, the team is going to be over reliant on DD to get the offense moving.

[KobesAchilles]

Huh? Demar was out.
No shit he was out. I was saying that Poeltl can’t be a starter next year if Demar leaves.

[spurs1990]

They're playing 4 on 5 with him on offense. Not only the worst FT shooting in history, but like someone said can't attempt anything outside 2 feet. Worst offensive center hands down since David Robinson left. Rasho, Nazr, Tiago, McDyess, Kurt Thomas, hell Dejuan Blair. All had something to show on offense.

I'm not crushing Poetle. His defense is good.

[rankingtear]

No shit he was out. I was saying that Poeltl can’t be a starter next year if Demar leaves.

Oh my bad i thought that you were arguing the same point as Drunkford. If Demar leaves and we don't sign anybody? If we sign a 3 point shooter can he start?

[KobesAchilles]

Oh my bad i thought that you were arguing the same point as Drunkford. If Demar leaves and we don't sign anybody? If we sign a 3 point shooter can he start?
I mean his defense is solid so he can start if we have enough offense. But the problem i foresee is that none of the young guns know how to handle an offense when the opposing teams are focused solely on them. Like right now Demar is the feature guy. Love him or hate him, he is who opposing teams look to stop first. Demar gets the double teams or goes in the teeth of the paint to find others. Nobody else on the team is consistent in this area.

The simplest solution is for Poodle to just learn to shoot from 6 feet in. I don’t need a jumper from him. As well as he positions himself defensively, he needs to do the same on offense. Too many times he is out of place when he is close to the basket. I mean the dude couldn’t even finish an ally oop. So next year would be really tough with him starting. But Poeltl hasn’t showed himself to be an off-season warrior and I’m not sure how realistic it is to expect him to improve on offense

[BackHome]

Yeah, and that is what pisses me off about Poodle he wants minutes but yet he is not putting in the work in the off season. He got a new contract and yet he could not find time to work on his 50% free throw shooting and it shows as now it's 30% and again ZERO offensive moves.

But I don't want to beat a dead horse so I will try and refrain from talking negatively about Poodle - I hope he improves but "Hope" is not a good plan so definitely looking at upgrading either through draft or free agency

[Ice009]

Look, I'm just going to come out and say it, but IMO the ceiling with this guy starting at center isn't very high. It's going to be a very low ceiling if the Spurs think this guy is a starting center on a playoff team IMO. If they want to go with that, then then need 4 shooters out on the floor with him, which again, brings me to the point I made when someone said the other day that the Spurs are at their worst in 1st and 3rd quarters. Who plays most of the minutes those quarters? The starters, so when is Pop going to actually start a fucking starting line-up that makes more sense? Why is he continuously starting guys like Lyles that shouldn't be starting? If he wants to improve the performance of the team in the 1st and 3rd quarters, how about stopping with those retarded line-ups. I still think the Spurs would have been better if they continued to start Luka instead of Lyles.

I'm sorry, as much as I like KJ, he also can't shoot for shit. His threes are looking worse and worse by the day.

So how about tying a starting 5 or something like

Jakob
Luka
Vassell
White
Murray

or

Jakob
Luka
Walker
White
Murray

Have some shooters out there. If KJ keeps bricking 3s this badly, he's going to have to go to the bench and be an energy guy, or the Spurs need to bench Jakob and get a better shooting center.

Can't keep trotting out three guys that can't shoot (Jakob, KJ, Trey, and to a certain extent, Dejounte still isn't a reliable 3 point threat) and expect to get better performances in the 1st and 3rd quarters. Spurs were blown out in the third quarter (same crappy starting line-up that I wanted him to scrap last game). I've lost respect for Pop ever since the big 3 and Kawhi bolted. He does not look like a very good coach at all. I started hating some of his decisions with the big three, but it seems he's getting worse and worse.

[rankingtear]

I mean his defense is solid so he can start if we have enough offense. But the problem i foresee is that none of the young guns know how to handle an offense when the opposing teams are focused solely on them. Like right now Demar is the feature guy. Love him or hate him, he is who opposing teams look to stop first. Demar gets the double teams or goes in the teeth of the paint to find others. Nobody else on the team is consistent in this area.

The simplest solution is for Poodle to just learn to shoot from 6 feet in. I don’t need a jumper from him. As well as he positions himself defensively, he needs to do the same on offense. Too many times he is out of place when he is close to the basket. I mean the dude couldn’t even finish an ally oop. So next year would be really tough with him starting. But Poeltl hasn’t showed himself to be an off-season warrior and I’m not sure how realistic it is to expect him to improve on offense

Offensively we would not survive either way unless one of those guys gets better or we acquire another shot creator Poeltl or not. Poeltl ensures we have a top 10 defense whatever roster construction we choose to go with. No other player making 9 mil can replicate that. Bang for the buck improvement offensively is in the perimeter. A top 10 offense and defense is the winning formula, Jakob single handedly ensures 1 of those things.

We are focusing too much on Jakob because he is the easiest one to single out offensively but if you compare based on positions Keldon hurts our offense more.

[itzsoweezee]

Are people seriously considering poetl a starter for the future? I understand giving the guy the opportunity to show what he’s got in a throwaway season, but he absolutely is not a starting level player in the nba. A solid backup? Sure. The best option for the time being? Yes. The center for this team’s future? GTFO.

[007nites]

Are people seriously considering poetl a starter for the future? I understand giving the guy the opportunity to show what he’s got in a throwaway season, but he absolutely is not a starting level player in the nba. A solid backup? Sure. The best option for the time being? Yes. The center for this team’s future? GTFO.

I went through the list of starting C's in the NBA for each team and he's honestly only better then maybe 4-5 of them.

[r0drig0lac]

Offensively we would not survive either way unless one of those guys gets better or we acquire another shot creator Poeltl or not. Poeltl ensures we have a top 10 defense whatever roster construction we choose to go with. No other player making 9 mil can replicate that. Bang for the buck improvement offensively is in the perimeter. A top 10 offense and defense is the winning formula, Jakob single handedly ensures 1 of those things.

We are focusing too much on Jakob because he is the easiest one to single out offensively but if you compare based on positions Keldon hurts our offense more.no way

[TheGreatYacht]

Motherfuckers on here really think this scrub is Rudy Gobert :lmao unbelievable.. he’s closer to Greg Ostertag.

[Rummpd]

Poeltl is simply a mirage type who puts up defensive stats and seemingly better effort against those not very good and is incapable of anything on either side of ball when going up against the elite. Do you trust him if Spurs hang onto a playoff spot? Not buying it. Bench him.

[The Truth #6]

I get the questions re: Yak, but it’s become a defense of DD indirectly. I get that too, but DD is very inconsistent as well, and we could have gotten blown out even if he was playing. I agree that we need playmaking and 3 point shooting. But I don’t want to move away from defense.

[Elementis]

Clearly Poeltl's FT woes (missing 1 of 2 last night) are the overwhelming reason for the loss.
the 3pt differential (4-21 at 19% vs 15-29 at 52%) is not a comparable impact on the game..

[horseshue]

Gobert just got 20+28!

[horseshue]

Clearly Poeltl's FT woes (missing 1 of 2 last night) are the overwhelming reason for the loss.
the 3pt differential (4-21 at 19% vs 15-29 at 52%) is not a comparable impact on the game..

Just checked, jakob got 0/0 from 3 pts line. He needs to shoot more.

[cd98]

Jakob is a good center in the NBA. He makes a huge difference for the Spurs on defense. His offense is not great, but he does set good screens and he can work effectively in a screen and roll. His free throw shooting needs work. But if he had an offense, then he would have cost way more and he'd be an all star player. The Spurs are getting what they paid for from him. He's a legit starter and the numbers on the Spurs defense with him in the lineup don't lie. He blocks a lot of shots and changes a lot of shots and he is mobile on the perimeter. He would command a lot more money if he were a free agent this year.

[3&D_TBH]

PATFO knows that we have a lack of elite offensive talent on the team, particularly when it comes to shooting, so they are going all in on rebuilding the defensive identity. I get that. But we really struggle with our shooting. We just need some of our young players to develop in that regard. Patience. Jakob is a place holder at his price. PATFO know that you can't win in the playoffs with his kind of abhorrent free throw shooting. Like I say all the time, this team is being built to be contenders in the next 2-3 years, not now. Jakob is serviceable at his price tag, but he is a backup when all is said and done. That's my opinion.

[Dejounte]

PATFO knows that we have a lack of elite offensive talent on the team, particularly when it comes to shooting, so they are going all in on rebuilding the defensive identity. I get that. But we really struggle with our shooting. We just need some of our young players to develop in that regard. Patience. Jakob is a place holder at his price. PATFO know that you can't win in the playoffs with his kind of abhorrent free throw shooting. Like I say all the time, this team is being built to be contenders in the next 2-3 years, not now. Jakob is serviceable at his price tag, but he is a backup when all is said and done. That's my opinion.

Shooting isn't the issue. Shot creation is. The offense sometimes goes stale because we don't have a player who is a consistent threat to break down the opposing team's defense. Even if we had good shooters, it would be hard to get them in rhythm. Players are still developing into that, such as White and Murray who are closest because of their ball handling skills, and DeMar takes a big chunk of that responsibility too. If Jakob or another center was camping at the three point line, they still wouldn't make them at an above average rate because of how the offense still isn't up to par. Having a player who takes up 30% of your cap space and has those shot creating responsibilities being out affects that. What the Spurs plan to do with that cap space should be to go after a player who can create their shot, whether that's DeMar or another player.

[cd98]

PATFO knows that we have a lack of elite offensive talent on the team, particularly when it comes to shooting, so they are going all in on rebuilding the defensive identity. I get that. But we really struggle with our shooting. We just need some of our young players to develop in that regard. Patience. Jakob is a place holder at his price. PATFO know that you can't win in the playoffs with his kind of abhorrent free throw shooting. Like I say all the time, this team is being built to be contenders in the next 2-3 years, not now. Jakob is serviceable at his price tag, but he is a backup when all is said and done. That's my opinion.

The Lakers won championships with Shaq and his terrible free throw shooting and he was a main offensive cog. The Spurs can win in the playoffs with Jakob. He'll improve as a free throw shooter, but teams can only strategically foul so much anyway and the league has put limits on that. He's not a main offensive player. His job is to screen and roll and attack the offensive rebounds. He's a solid passer for a big man. He's not a post player that draws lots of fouls. Also, notice that no one is intentionally fouling him now and they used to do that to players like him all the time. Certainly he needs to improve his free throw shooting to be a more effective player, but he is more than a place holder. He would easily command a higher salary if he were a free agent this year. People didn't get a chance to see his numbers last year as a spot starter. But this year they can see the type of impact he has on defense and I guarantee that he'd get scooped up at a higher salary. Spurs lucky to get him and lock him in for three years.

[r0drig0lac]

The Lakers won championships with Shaq and his terrible free throw shooting and he was a main offensive cog. The Spurs can win in the playoffs with Jakob. He'll improve as a free throw shooter, but teams can only strategically foul so much anyway and the league has put limits on that. He's not a main offensive player. His job is to screen and roll and attack the offensive rebounds. He's a solid passer for a big man. He's not a post player that draws lots of fouls. Also, notice that no one is intentionally fouling him now and they used to do that to players like him all the time. Certainly he needs to improve his free throw shooting to be a more effective player, but he is more than a place holder. He would easily command a higher salary if he were a free agent this year. People didn't get a chance to see his numbers last year as a spot starter. But this year they can see the type of impact he has on defense and I guarantee that he'd get scooped up at a higher salary. Spurs lucky to get him and lock him in for three years.?

[cd98]

?

You don't need to have a team of 80% free throw shooters to win in the playoffs. Shaq was a poor shooter and his team won 3 in a row and people even intentionally fouled him. Shaq had the ball in his hands a lot. Jakob is a starter, but on offense, he has a limited role. He doesn't have the ball in his hands and he doesn't go to the line. They don't need him to be that kind of player. They can win with him in the playoffs as a starting center, especially one that touches the ball way less than a star like Shaq. If we relied on Jakob to be a 20 point a game scorer, then yes, free throw shooting would be an issue, but that's not his role on this team.

[Elementis]

let's also not forget that for 9m /year you are destined to get a C with strengths and weaknesses. if you want the stretch big that protects the rim and the perimeter, then you will find the list of candidates to be rather short, and most certainly very expensive.
do you want to pay that for a big to build around, and run out of cash to pay the developing core? or do you accept that your center won't solve all your problems, but have flexibility to add pieces or keep the young guns around?

[r0drig0lac]

You don't need to have a team of 80% free throw shooters to win in the playoffs. Shaq was a poor shooter and his team won 3 in a row and people even intentionally fouled him. Shaq had the ball in his hands a lot. Jakob is a starter, but on offense, he has a limited role. He doesn't have the ball in his hands and he doesn't go to the line. They don't need him to be that kind of player. They can win with him in the playoffs as a starting center, especially one that touches the ball way less than a star like Shaq. If we relied on Jakob to be a 20 point a game scorer, then yes, free throw shooting would be an issue, but that's not his role on this team.

thanks

[itzsoweezee]

You don't need to have a team of 80% free throw shooters to win in the playoffs. Shaq was a poor shooter and his team won 3 in a row and people even intentionally fouled him. Shaq had the ball in his hands a lot. Jakob is a starter, but on offense, he has a limited role. He doesn't have the ball in his hands and he doesn't go to the line. They don't need him to be that kind of player. They can win with him in the playoffs as a starting center, especially one that touches the ball way less than a star like Shaq. If we relied on Jakob to be a 20 point a game scorer, then yes, free throw shooting would be an issue, but that's not his role on this team.

Lol. No team with poetl as their starting center is winning anything in the playoffs.

I don’t think they’re even making the playoffs, but you went even beyond that.

This is 2021, not 2001. Big stiffs with no skills have no place being a starter in this league

[KobesAchilles]

You don't need to have a team of 80% free throw shooters to win in the playoffs. Shaq was a poor shooter and his team won 3 in a row and people even intentionally fouled him. Shaq had the ball in his hands a lot. Jakob is a starter, but on offense, he has a limited role. He doesn't have the ball in his hands and he doesn't go to the line. They don't need him to be that kind of player. They can win with him in the playoffs as a starting center, especially one that touches the ball way less than a star like Shaq. If we relied on Jakob to be a 20 point a game scorer, then yes, free throw shooting would be an issue, but that's not his role on this team.
Except Shaq averaged 30 and 15 and Jak gives you a fifth of that so that’s a stupid point. Might as well bring up Wilt’s free throw shooting too while you’re at it. Plus it’s a different era that caters to offense way more than 2001 ever did. Also they had Kobe effing Bryant who averaged 28 6 and elite defense during that run. We have none of those :lol

[Elementis]

Except Shaq averaged 30 and 15 and Jak gives you a fifth of that so that’s a stupid point. Might as well bring up Wilt’s free throw shooting too while you’re at it. Plus it’s a different era that caters to offense way more than 2001 ever did. Also they had Kobe effing Bryant who averaged 28 6 and elite defense during that run. We have none of those :lol

so are we missing the Shaq part or the Kobe part more? it's great that everyone is pointing at Yak not delivering elite offense, but i'd say there are a few more players on the team who fall way short of that requirement as well, and cost more

[rankingtear]

Lol. No team with poetl as their starting center is winning anything in the playoffs.

I don’t think they’re even making the playoffs, but you went even beyond that.

This is 2021, not 2001. Big stiffs with no skills have no place being a starter in this league

Well the winning formula so far for centers is rim protection at a bargain price. A 30+ Javale McGee and Marc Gasol are the stiff starting centers winning ships recently. You can afford the flexibility of not playing your starting center in certain lineups when he is making mid level money. That means your capspace is allocated in your guards/wings, which have less counters.

[KobesAchilles]

so are we missing the Shaq part or the Kobe part more? it's great that everyone is pointing at Yak not delivering elite offense, but i'd say there are a few more players on the team who fall way short of that requirement as well, and cost more
We are a superstar away from contention. Which sounds easy to say but it’s the truth. Some teams aren’t even at that level. Like Dallas. They have Luka and still can’t contend.

But as far as starters go, Derrick White is starting to concern me. Dude is shooting though and trying to get out of his funk. But his defense yesterday was amazing considering he was guarding a guy 4 inches taller and 50 pounds heavier. And bc of the roster construction, everybody is playing out of position. So it’s hard to get after basically a first year player in Keldon when he is playing out of position.

[slick'81]

Without lma our frontcourt weakness in glaring

[itzsoweezee]

Well the winning formula so far for centers is rim protection at a bargain price. A 30+ Javale McGee and Marc Gasol are the stiff starting centers winning ships recently. You can afford the flexibility of not playing your starting center in certain lineups when he is making mid level money. That means your capspace is allocated in your guards/wings, which have less counters.

McGee was a starting center in label only. I can’t believe I have to say this, but if the Spurs acquire lebron and Anthony Davis, then sure, go ahead and start poetl and let him play the 15 minutes of the game where Davis isn’t playing center.

And gasol is no stiff. Gtfoh comparing poetl to an all-nba talent. You people are delusional

[cd98]

Lol. No team with poetl as their starting center is winning anything in the playoffs.

I don’t think they’re even making the playoffs, but you went even beyond that.

This is 2021, not 2001. Big stiffs with no skills have no place being a starter in this league

He's got a lot of skills, just not individual scoring. But most centers in the NBA don't. How many points were the centers for the Heat and the Lakers scoring last year? It's nice to have a stretch 5, but if you are a switching defense, like the Spurs are, you need to have a mobile big that can protect the rim and switch on shooters. He can do that and that is a valuable skill for a starting center and one that would get him paid a lot this summer if he were a free agent.

[cd98]

Except Shaq averaged 30 and 15 and Jak gives you a fifth of that so that’s a stupid point. Might as well bring up Wilt’s free throw shooting too while you’re at it. Plus it’s a different era that caters to offense way more than 2001 ever did. Also they had Kobe effing Bryant who averaged 28 6 and elite defense during that run. We have none of those :lol

You are missing my point. You aren't hurting by a bad free throw shooter when he rarely touches the ball on offense except to catch dump off passes or pass from the high post. Those guys don't shoot a lot of free throws so a low free throw percentage doesn't kill your value. And my point is not comparing the centers from a skill sense, it's saying that Shaq was a big man that touched the ball constantly and had the ball in the post constantly and he won three championships despite the fact that he was a horrible free throw shooter. So if a team can win a title with a high volume scorer that is a terrible free throw shooter, then a low volume center that can't shoot free throws, but plays great defense is not a bar from making and winning in the playoffs.

Remember that now days, you can't foul someone that doesn't have the ball in a close game or it's a technical. So you can't intentionally foul him unless he is holding the ball, which is very rare in the Spurs offense. My point is his free throw shooting doesn't mean he can't be a starting center on a playoff team. I think he could.

[cd98]

McGee was a starting center in label only. I can’t believe I have to say this, but if the Spurs acquire lebron and Anthony Davis, then sure, go ahead and start poetl and let him play the 15 minutes of the game where Davis isn’t playing center.

And gasol is no stiff. Gtfoh comparing poetl to an all-nba talent. You people are delusional

Prime Gasol was not a stiff. Last year's Gasol, at the end of his career, is a stiff. The Lakers would love to get Jakob and he would immediately start for them and play along side Davis and they would be the best defensive team in the NBA.

[rankingtear]

McGee was a starting center in label only. I can’t believe I have to say this, but if the Spurs acquire lebron and Anthony Davis, then sure, go ahead and start poetl and let him play the 15 minutes of the game where Davis isn’t playing center.

And gasol is no stiff. Gtfoh comparing poetl to an all-nba talent. You people are delusional

Zaza Pachulia , Chris Andersen, Andrew Bogut , Tyson Chandler, Tiago Splitter. The point is Poeltl can start in a championship team in the modern nba your talent should be on your guards and wings. All starting centers for championship team for the past decade average points per game is 10 or below. Minutes are in the low 20 range. Your arguing he can't start for a playoff team but players not much better than him have started for championship teams.

[itzsoweezee]

Prime Gasol was not a stiff. Last year's Gasol, at the end of his career, is a stiff. The Lakers would love to get Jakob and he would immediately start for them and play along side Davis and they would be the best defensive team in the NBA.

That’s my point. When you have a starting lineup with two superstars, you can get by with a skillless stiff as your starting center. The Spurs are years away (absent mismanagement) from being in that position.

[itzsoweezee]

Zaza Pachulia , Chris Andersen, Andrew Bogut , Tyson Chandler, Tiago Splitter. The point is Poeltl can start in a championship team in the modern nba your talent should be on your guards and wings. All starting centers for championship team for the past decade average points per game is 10 or below. Minutes are in the low 20 range. Your arguing he can't start for a playoff team but players not much better than him have started for championship teams.


On teams with superstars. On a team stacked with role players? Hell no

[Dejounte]

That’s my point. When you have a starting lineup with two superstars, you can get by with a skillless stiff as your starting center. The Spurs are years away (absent mismanagement) from being in that position.


On teams with superstars. On a team stacked with role players? Hell no

So your problem is not with Poeltl but the fact that the Spurs don't have superstars at other positions because if we did have superstars, he would be fine. So why not argue for better players at the other positions, instead of focusing on one player who's as "minimally impactful on winning" as the other guys? And *if* Poeltl was just as good as the other guys in the SL, how far would that hypothetical team go given that no one from 1-5 is a superstar? This circular reasoning is fun.

[pad300]

Ok, this Shaq argument is assinine. Shaq was absolutely a dominant offensive player (Shaq O >> Poetl D), and quite good defensively (even when you got him out covering a wing on a switch, his feet weren't terrible; in the post he was force ... Shaq D >> Poetl O).

Wrt to the "How many points were the centers for the Heat and the Lakers scoring last year?", that's Davis and Bam. In the finals, Davis was 25.0 pts/game and Bam was 15.3. On the season, Davis 26.1 ppg and Bam was 15.9 ppg. Both of them were major figures in the offense. People don't seem to realize it, but the teams that win out still tend to have very good bigs (at both ends of the floor). Just like it has always been, you need all the parts to win.

[cd98]

That’s my point. When you have a starting lineup with two superstars, you can get by with a skillless stiff as your starting center. The Spurs are years away (absent mismanagement) from being in that position.

I agree on the superstars, but that's to compete for a title. You need superstars regardless for that. You think he's skill-less and you are entitled to your opinion. Maybe he's "skill-less" compared to the great centers of the 90s or Tim Duncan. But for today's NBA, he has what I consider to be very valuable skills. From what I see in the NBA, anyone that can block or alter shots in the paint and switch on defenders and guard on the perimeter and guard the pick and roll are incredibly valuable, even if their scoring is limited. And even though he doesn't have a post-up game and sometimes is a little to weak in the paint, he is a top level passer out of the high post, which is a valuable skill and he is great at setting screens and playing a roller. Yes, if he had superstars, he'd probably score more, but that's not his fault. For a big, he does everything a team needs. He'd start on most NBA teams right now. But yes, the rest of our positions are not nearly as adequate as he is at center. We don't have a true point guard and our offense relies entirely on DDR either scoring or creating shots. Other guys around Jakob need to play better if the Spurs want to make the playoffs.

[KobesAchilles]

You are missing my point. You aren't hurting by a bad free throw shooter when he rarely touches the ball on offense except to catch dump off passes or pass from the high post. Those guys don't shoot a lot of free throws so a low free throw percentage doesn't kill your value. And my point is not comparing the centers from a skill sense, it's saying that Shaq was a big man that touched the ball constantly and had the ball in the post constantly and he won three championships despite the fact that he was a horrible free throw shooter. So if a team can win a title with a high volume scorer that is a terrible free throw shooter, then a low volume center that can't shoot free throws, but plays great defense is not a bar from making and winning in the playoffs.

Remember that now days, you can't foul someone that doesn't have the ball in a close game or it's a technical. So you can't intentionally foul him unless he is holding the ball, which is very rare in the Spurs offense. My point is his free throw shooting doesn't mean he can't be a starting center on a playoff team. I think he could.
i got ur point but I just think it’s a bad one. You compared Jak to the most dominant center of all time. What Shaq was to offense, Jak is NOT to defense. Also if Jak was only a bad free throw, then what you say makes sense. But he is terrible on all facets of offense. He can’t roll particularly well, he can’t finish lay ups, he rarely dunks, and the dude can’t post anybody. He also couldn’t finish an ally oop. He sets screens for others and does hand offs and that is about it.

[cd98]

i got ur point but I just think it’s a bad one. You compared Jak to the most dominant center of all time. What Shaq was to offense, Jak is NOT to defense. Also if Jak was only a bad free throw, then what you say makes sense. But he is terrible on all facets of offense. He can’t roll particularly well, he can’t finish lay ups, he rarely dunks, and the dude can’t post anybody. He also couldn’t finish an ally oop. He sets screens for others and does hand offs and that is about it.

No, I didn't compare him to an all-time great. I don't think he is anywhere near as good as Shaq as an offensive player. My point is comparing their free throw percentages and saying that you can win with a center that doesn't shoot free throws well if they are good at defense. My point is that even though Shaq was a horrible free throw shooter and particularly because he was a high volume shooter and had the ball in his hands all the time and the rules favored intentional fouling, he still was on the floor regardless of his poor free throw shooting and he won 3 championships in a row. So a center now adays that has a role as a defensive player and screen/roll on offense that shoots bad free throws, but doesn't have the ball in his hands at all can still be on the court in the playoffs and contribute.

I'm comparing poor free throw shooters and their ability to be on the court. I'm not comparing Shaq's low post skills with Jakob.

[rankingtear]

Ok, this Shaq argument is assinine. Shaq was absolutely a dominant offensive player (Shaq O >> Poetl D), and quite good defensively (even when you got him out covering a wing on a switch, his feet weren't terrible; in the post he was force ... Shaq D >> Poetl O).

Wrt to the "How many points were the centers for the Heat and the Lakers scoring last year?", that's Davis and Bam. In the finals, Davis was 25.0 pts/game and Bam was 15.3. On the season, Davis 26.1 ppg and Bam was 15.9 ppg. Both of them were major figures in the offense. People don't seem to realize it, but the teams that win out still tend to have very good bigs (at both ends of the floor). Just like it has always been, you need all the parts to win.

They are comparing free throws. Side note Poeltl is up 50 % in march and 44 % in Feb. Not that good but low volume and the new rules in place i don't see it much of a problem ( last 2 minutes of the quarter 2 ft and possesion ). Teams don't really want to get into foul trouble early.

[rankingtear]

i got ur point but I just think it’s a bad one. You compared Jak to the most dominant center of all time. What Shaq was to offense, Jak is NOT to defense. Also if Jak was only a bad free throw, then what you say makes sense. But he is terrible on all facets of offense. He can’t roll particularly well, he can’t finish lay ups, he rarely dunks, and the dude can’t post anybody. He also couldn’t finish an ally oop. He sets screens for others and does hand offs and that is about it.

Is offensive rebounding a part of an offense? He is 9th in off reb percentage.

[BackHome]

I remember when everyone would argue that Old Time Centers with no outside game were a thing of the past and guys like our draft pick Nikola V. were Dinosaurs who should not be brought over because they had no 3 ball game and no outside shooting. But somehow we end up with an Ancient Dinosaur who just doesn’t have a 3 ball game he has NO Offensive game at all and everyone is cool with that?

[The Truth #6]

Without lma our frontcourt weakness in glaring

I thought it was glaring WITH him. Yikes.

[rankingtear]

I remember when everyone would argue that Old Time Centers with no outside game were a thing of the past and guys like our draft pick Nikola V. were Dinosaurs who should not be brought over because they had no 3 ball game and no outside shooting. But somehow we end up with an Ancient Dinosaur who just doesn’t have a 3 ball game he has NO Offensive game at all and everyone is cool with that?

Still waiting for players with both good rim protection and 3 ball to get to the league. Sometimes you have to settle for good rim protection.

[spurs1990]

Here's where he stands league wise at the stripe among all players with minimum 10 FT attempts.

Magnificently horrific performance by Poetle.

The next worst volume shooter Steven Adams is still 10 pts higher.
Only 8 players shooting less than 50%. A good list of players not to pick from in free agency.

20 Worst FT shooters in the NBA (10+ attempts)

RkPlayerPosTmGGSMPFG%FTFTAFT%^PTS
10Tacko FallCBOS9066.706311.27327
14Jakob PoeltlCSAS3517835.6001851.353228
15Ish SmithPGWAS191391.379615.40099
19Steven AdamsCNOP3636987.6293985.459297
20Thanasis AntetokounmpoSFMIL280241.596613.46264
21T.J. McConnellPGIND342858.525919.474225
22Mitchell RobinsonCNYK2727778.6602246.478228
23Bismack BiyomboCCHO3519770.5523062.484190
24DeAndre JordanCBRK3728855.7652958.500277
25Jaden McDanielsPFMIN321621.4191224.500179
51Grant WilliamsPFBOS306542.4671631.516155
52Precious AchiuwaPFMIA382510.5844483.530218
53Thaddeus YoungPFCHI331826.6012649.531399
54Clint CapelaCATL34341004.59760113.531504
55Mychal MulderPGGSW342360.435815.533140
56Dwight HowardCPHI394637.59757106.538251
57Caleb MartinSFCHO271402.4151426.538145
58Amir CoffeySGLAC220177.490713.53871
59Luka SamanicPFSAS121122.436713.53849
60Hassan WhitesideCSAC231335.5803055.545190





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Generated 3/15/2021.

[cd98]

I remember when everyone would argue that Old Time Centers with no outside game were a thing of the past and guys like our draft pick Nikola V. were Dinosaurs who should not be brought over because they had no 3 ball game and no outside shooting. But somehow we end up with an Ancient Dinosaur who just doesn’t have a 3 ball game he has NO Offensive game at all and everyone is cool with that?

Well LMA is a good three point shooting big man, but as you can see, without the mobility on defense, the 3 point shooting isn't enough.

[cd98]

Here's where he stands league wise at the stripe among all players with minimum 10 FT attempts.

Magnificently horrific performance by Poetle.

The next worst volume shooter Steven Adams is still 10 pts higher.
Only 8 players shooting less than 50%. A good list of players not to pick from in free agency.

20 Worst FT shooters in the NBA (10+ attempts)


Rk
Player
Pos
Tm
G
GS
MP
FG%
FT
FTA
FT%^
PTS


10
Tacko Fall
C
BOS
9
0
66
.706
3
11
.273
27


14
Jakob Poeltl
C
SAS
35
17
835
.600
18
51
.353
228


15
Ish Smith
PG
WAS
19
1
391
.379
6
15
.400
99


19
Steven Adams
C
NOP
36
36
987
.629
39
85
.459
297


20
Thanasis Antetokounmpo
SF
MIL
28
0
241
.596
6
13
.462
64


21
T.J. McConnell
PG
IND
34
2
858
.525
9
19
.474
225


22
Mitchell Robinson
C
NYK
27
27
778
.660
22
46
.478
228


23
Bismack Biyombo
C
CHO
35
19
770
.552
30
62
.484
190


24
DeAndre Jordan
C
BRK
37
28
855
.765
29
58
.500
277


25
Jaden McDaniels
PF
MIN
32
1
621
.419
12
24
.500
179


51
Grant Williams
PF
BOS
30
6
542
.467
16
31
.516
155


52
Precious Achiuwa
PF
MIA
38
2
510
.584
44
83
.530
218


53
Thaddeus Young
PF
CHI
33
1
826
.601
26
49
.531
399


54
Clint Capela
C
ATL
34
34
1004
.597
60
113
.531
504


55
Mychal Mulder
PG
GSW
34
2
360
.435
8
15
.533
140


56
Dwight Howard
C
PHI
39
4
637
.597
57
106
.538
251


57
Caleb Martin
SF
CHO
27
1
402
.415
14
26
.538
145


58
Amir Coffey
SG
LAC
22
0
177
.490
7
13
.538
71


59
Luka Samanic
PF
SAS
12
1
122
.436
7
13
.538
49


60
Hassan Whiteside
C
SAC
23
1
335
.580
30
55
.545
190




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Generated 3/15/2021.

I think everyone agrees that his free throw shooting is horrible, though I have seen some improvement in his form.

[KobesAchilles]

Is offensive rebounding a part of an offense? He is 9th in off reb percentage.
I suppose it is. So he does everything well on offense except putting the ball in the basket, spacing, and know how of where to be. These are kinda important things but hey that’s just me I guess. Nice back up big. 20-25 minutes a game. But if he is our starter of the future, we are fucked

[Dejounte]

Here's where he stands league wise at the stripe among all players with minimum 10 FT attempts.

Magnificently horrific performance by Poetle.

The next worst volume shooter Steven Adams is still 10 pts higher.
Only 8 players shooting less than 50%. A good list of players not to pick from in free agency.

20 Worst FT shooters in the NBA (10+ attempts)


Rk
Player
Pos
Tm
G
GS
MP
FG%
FT
FTA
FT%^
PTS


10
Tacko Fall
C
BOS
9
0
66
.706
3
11
.273
27


14
Jakob Poeltl
C
SAS
35
17
835
.600
18
51
.353
228


15
Ish Smith
PG
WAS
19
1
391
.379
6
15
.400
99


19
Steven Adams
C
NOP
36
36
987
.629
39
85
.459
297


20
Thanasis Antetokounmpo
SF
MIL
28
0
241
.596
6
13
.462
64


21
T.J. McConnell
PG
IND
34
2
858
.525
9
19
.474
225


22
Mitchell Robinson
C
NYK
27
27
778
.660
22
46
.478
228


23
Bismack Biyombo
C
CHO
35
19
770
.552
30
62
.484
190


24
DeAndre Jordan
C
BRK
37
28
855
.765
29
58
.500
277


25
Jaden McDaniels
PF
MIN
32
1
621
.419
12
24
.500
179


51
Grant Williams
PF
BOS
30
6
542
.467
16
31
.516
155


52
Precious Achiuwa
PF
MIA
38
2
510
.584
44
83
.530
218


53
Thaddeus Young
PF
CHI
33
1
826
.601
26
49
.531
399


54
Clint Capela
C
ATL
34
34
1004
.597
60
113
.531
504


55
Mychal Mulder
PG
GSW
34
2
360
.435
8
15
.533
140


56
Dwight Howard
C
PHI
39
4
637
.597
57
106
.538
251


57
Caleb Martin
SF
CHO
27
1
402
.415
14
26
.538
145


58
Amir Coffey
SG
LAC
22
0
177
.490
7
13
.538
71


59
Luka Samanic
PF
SAS
12
1
122
.436
7
13
.538
49


60
Hassan Whiteside
C
SAC
23
1
335
.580
30
55
.545
190




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Generated 3/15/2021.

FIFY



Player
Pos
Tm
G
MP
FG%
FT
FTA
FT%^
PTS


Jaden McDaniels
PF
MIN
32
621
0.419
12
24
0.500
179


Grant Williams
PF
BOS
30
542
0.467
16
31
0.516
155


Mitchell Robinson
C
NYK
27
778
0.660
22
46
0.478
228


Thaddeus Young
PF
CHI
33
826
0.601
26
49
0.531
399


Jakob Poeltl
C
SAS
35
835
0.600
18
51
0.353
228


DeAndre Jordan
C
BRK
37
855
0.765
29
58
0.500
277


Bismack Biyombo
C
CHO
35
770
0.552
30
62
0.484
190


Steven Adams
C
NOP
36
987
0.629
39
85
0.459
297


Dwight Howard
C
PHI
39
637
0.597
57
106
0.538
251


Clint Capela
C
ATL
34
1004
0.597
60
113
0.531
504




Jakob's FT has been abysmal, but this is the better way for you to organize the data set. Excluding guys with <500 mpg and sorting by FTA is a more appropriate way to look at it.

The comparable bigs are: Mitchell Robinson, Thaddeus Young, DeAndre Jordan, Bismack Biyombo.

[rankingtear]

I think everyone agrees that his free throw shooting is horrible, though I have seen some improvement in his form.

Yeah Poeltl is free throw is up 47% last 2 months.

[cd98]

I suppose it is. So he does everything well on offense except putting the ball in the basket, spacing, and know how of where to be. These are kinda important things but hey that’s just me I guess. Nice back up big. 20-25 minutes a game. But if he is our starter of the future, we are fucked

It is totally fine for you to think he sucks and is a scrub. If you value a center that can average 15+ points a game, he's not your man. But I disagree that he doesn't know where to be and spacing. Now, is he a space creator? Well yes, because teams have to account for him on the pick and roll so they can't not guard him. And they have to have a man on him on the offensive boards. Is he a spacer for three point shooting? No, of course not. So he does create some kind of space in that he can't be ignored by a defense, but he does require that you have several three point shooters around him so the offense doesn't get clogged. I think we agree on that. That's why we need a 4 that can shoot threes. I think he also knows where to be. Now can he put the ball in the basket? He can. Is he a great scorer? No. Does he do layups sometimes when he should dunk? Yes. Does his runners in the lane look weak? They do. But can he make a living with garbage points? Yes, he can do enough. Spurs were not signing him for his offense, they were signing him for his defense. His offense is good enough because his defense is very good. He's one of the best defensive players in the league.

He's not Ben Wallace, but he impacts the game from a defensive perspective like Ben Wallace. Ben Wallace couldn't score to save his life, but his defense was otherworldly. Jakob isn't Wallace, but he does enough, I believe, to keep him as a starter and I think he would start on a lot of other NBA teams too.

[KobesAchilles]

It is totally fine for you to think he sucks and is a scrub. If you value a center that can average 15+ points a game, he's not your man. But I disagree that he doesn't know where to be and spacing. Now, is he a space creator? Well yes, because teams have to account for him on the pick and roll so they can't not guard him. And they have to have a man on him on the offensive boards. Is he a spacer for three point shooting? No, of course not. So he does create some kind of space in that he can't be ignored by a defense, but he does require that you have several three point shooters around him so the offense doesn't get clogged. I think we agree on that. That's why we need a 4 that can shoot threes. I think he also knows where to be. Now can he put the ball in the basket? He can. Is he a great scorer? No. Does he do layups sometimes when he should dunk? Yes. Does his runners in the lane look weak? They do. But can he make a living with garbage points? Yes, he can do enough. Spurs were not signing him for his offense, they were signing him for his defense. His offense is good enough because his defense is very good. He's one of the best defensive players in the league.

He's not Ben Wallace, but he impacts the game from a defensive perspective like Ben Wallace. Ben Wallace couldn't score to save his life, but his defense was otherworldly. Jakob isn't Wallace, but he does enough, I believe, to keep him as a starter and I think he would start on a lot of other NBA teams too.
On other NBA teams sure he could start. There are a lot of shit teams out there. But he shouldn’t be a starter on ours. We don’t have the personal for it. You yourself have admitted that. You seem to be stuck in the past and that just isn’t the way the league works anymore. We aren’t built like the 04 Pistons and we aren’t coached like it either. There’s a reason why Larry Brown went to college, he couldn’t get away with the shit he pulls as a coach just the same way there is a reason why Pop babies his personal. It’s different times.

Everything today is all offense. The league has made every rule to benefit offense. You can’t even put a forearm on a big man anymore for Christ sakes. Jakob is a bench big. It probably would take 15 points a game for him to start and be effective next year bc we don’t have a true #1. And when teams focus solely on DJ next year (if we lose DDR) that only makes it that much harder to score. Jak needs DDR or else he just isn’t a starter.

Also nah he doesn’t know where to be on offense once he is in the paint. There were like 4 possessions against Philly where I was just thinking to myself take 1 step in! Do it and get that lay up! He needs to be tutored by Tiago tbh. That guy was a master.

[DAF86]

Get the fuck in here Poodle Slurpers and defend this shitty excuse of offense

But I thought Pop developed him. What happened son? :lol

[KobesAchilles]

But I thought Pop developed him. What happened son? :lol
He did. On defense. Offense not so much. He isn’t Jesus. But I’m known as the original Poodle hater here tbh so naturally I’m all over the place :lol

[Sugus]

:lol reading SpursTalk the morning after a bad loss never gets less funny. It's good to see that Poeltl has now become the designated whipping boy of ST, to be blamed for every mishap the team has. I'm actually a bit surprised at just how quickly the forum made a full heel-face 180º turn with previous IG Baller, now Golden Boy, Dejounte Murray. Don't think I've read a single negative comment about his performance yesterday across all the threads, funny stuff.

I agree with most that Poeltl starting in this team's current configuration (more like, Pop's current configuration of the team, because there's answers to be had, just none that he'd consider) is far from ideal. I disagree, however, that Jakob is the piece to be moved, and it'd be really interesting to see a conversation about that, because most of the forum doesn't look willing to have it. Most are focused on "Poeltl can't be a starter on a championship-calibre team!!" (I'll excuse that retard who said he couldn't start for a playoff team, that's just too laughable to adress); but which one of our other starters could start on a championship team, for real? I don't see White being durable enough to handle a deep playoff run. Murray, for all his improvements (he's closest in my ranking to the criteria), is still too prone to disappear, and gets tamed when his shot isn't falling, especially if the other team bullies him into taking 3's when he's cold. Keldon's also a good candidate, and I won't be harsh on him since he's recovering from COVID, but he's much too far away in critical skills like handles and outside-shooting.

I don't want to get too whataboutical about this, but my point is, people here ridiculously hold Poeltl to a high standard, to which they don't hold other players. I actually agree with KobesAchilles on a lot of stuff - but it's more in the vein of his "talent in the NBA should be primarily focused on the wings and guards for optimal roster construction" takes than his "Poeltl is a stiff scrub" ones. It really has to be asked - do the Spurs have anywhere close to championship-level talent at the wings or guards spots? And if they don't, and considering the way the league trends, why is everyone focused on trashing the least valuable offensive position player, when the rest of the team disappears on that end as well?

This is the thing that puzzles me. The Spurs couldn't crack 100 points last night. It's only one loss, I won't cliff-jump over it, but to me it's been apparent for a while that we lack that offensive powerhouse player - we see it when we face Dallas, when we face the Grizzlies, when we face the Pelicans, etc. And, the most ironic aspect of all - the Doncic's, Ja's, Trae's of the league, would all play much better alongside someone like Poeltl to cover their offense-primed game, than someone like Dejounte taking the ball away from them. Isn't it ironic?

I'm interested to see where the Spurs go beyond this season, whether they recognize this limitation and try to get "that" talent through the draft, or luring some FA like Lauri Markkannen to try and develop him into a cornerstone, or just ignore the issue altogether and double down on their playoff aspirations. But the criticism on here is really wack sometimes (most times, tbh).

[cd98]

On other NBA teams sure he could start. There are a lot of shit teams out there. But he shouldn’t be a starter on ours. We don’t have the personal for it. You yourself have admitted that. You seem to be stuck in the past and that just isn’t the way the league works anymore. We aren’t built like the 04 Pistons and we aren’t coached like it either. There’s a reason why Larry Brown went to college, he couldn’t get away with the shit he pulls as a coach just the same way there is a reason why Pop babies his personal. It’s different times.

Everything today is all offense. The league has made every rule to benefit offense. You can’t even put a forearm on a big man anymore for Christ sakes. Jakob is a bench big. It probably would take 15 points a game for him to start and be effective next year bc we don’t have a true #1. And when teams focus solely on DJ next year (if we lose DDR) that only makes it that much harder to score. Jak needs DDR or else he just isn’t a starter.

Also nah he doesn’t know where to be on offense once he is in the paint. There were like 4 possessions against Philly where I was just thinking to myself take 1 step in! Do it and get that lay up! He needs to be tutored by Tiago tbh. That guy was a master.

Well I somewhat agree but disagree. We don't have the roster, but there isn't a center in the league that we have the roster to support right now because we do not have great shooters. The center is not our problem, in my opinion. It's the other guys. We have a solid defensive team. Our team is built on defense. We are Pistonesque in that we are going to win games by Spurs D, but it's a different kind of D. Spurs are not bruisers like Detroit was. The Spurs play the passing lanes and have athletes that can switch. Everyone in the starting lineup, include Jakob, can switch and guard a guy on the perimeter, even DDR can sometimes. It is our defense and pace that makes us competitive and our superior bench. Without that, we'd lose every game by 30 points.

But you could put most centers in the league on this team and you'd have the same problems on offense. We have the defense, but we need guys to continue to improve on outside shooting and shot creation and execution. We also don't have a Top Dog scorer. Those are hard to get. DDR is as close as we got. He's good, but he's more of a two. We need a star beyond him and maybe if we stink and end up in the lottery, we can get that. Otherwise, we just have to hope for internal improvement. But getting rid of Jakob won't fix that. He's a good modern center. You don't need to be a three point shooter if you can play game changing defense. Even in a league with high scoring, you need good defense. That's why the Jazz are number one and that's why the 76ers are number two. Great defenses. You need offense, but you need a good enough defense. The Spurs just need time to cook and get better and develop on offense.

[Sugus]

Well I somewhat agree but disagree. We don't have the roster, but there isn't a center in the league that we have the roster to support right now because we do not have great shooters. The center is not our problem, in my opinion. It's the other guys. We have a solid defensive team. Our team is built on defense. We are Pistonesque in that we are going to win games by Spurs D, but it's a different kind of D. Spurs are not bruisers like Detroit was. The Spurs play the passing lanes and have athletes that can switch. Everyone in the starting lineup, include Jakob, can switch and guard a guy on the perimeter, even DDR can sometimes. It is our defense and pace that makes us competitive and our superior bench. Without that, we'd lose every game by 30 points.

But you could put most centers in the league on this team and you'd have the same problems on offense. We have the defense, but we need guys to continue to improve on outside shooting and shot creation and execution. We also don't have a Top Dog scorer. Those are hard to get. DDR is as close as we got. He's good, but he's more of a two. We need a star beyond him and maybe if we stink and end up in the lottery, we can get that. Otherwise, we just have to hope for internal improvement. But getting rid of Jakob won't fix that. He's a good modern center. You don't need to be a three point shooter if you can play game changing defense. Even in a league with high scoring, you need good defense. That's why the Jazz are number one and that's why the 76ers are number two. Great defenses. You need offense, but you need a good enough defense. The Spurs just need time to cook and get better and develop on offense.

It's good that I typed my comment before you did, 'cause I'd be accused of plagiarizing otherwise :lol. Exactly, my guy.

The irony here is people wanting to replace Jakob, the best defender on the team, with a shooting-but-not-defending big, just to try and shore up the offensive weaknesses of the rest of the team/SL. Why they think the defense would stay the same, and the offense improve, instead of the opposite happening (the defense falling apart without an anchor and multiple low IQ defenders in the SL, and the offense not getting significantly better with adding a 35-38% shooting big that might not even get a lot of touches with the ball-dominant guards on the roster), is beyond me.

Yesterday's game was bad all around. We should hang our hats on defense, and instead fell apart against a team missing its best player (a C, by the way, for those of the exhaling crew anointing the blame fully on Poeltl and especially his woes against star big men). It was a team-wide egg laid, to be blamed just as much on Poeltl as Lyles, and Patty, and White and even DJ. Long-term, in a modern NBA that's more offense-oriented than ever before, I'm definitely more worried about whether the guards we now consider "the future" can measure up to other teams' actual cornerstones, than whether our defensive C can shoot 3's or not. You don't build championship contenders on C's that shoot 3's, unless they're elite at literally every other facet of the game, including defense, like Anthony Davis (I've said earlier in this thread, that the player people want to replace Poeltl with, is only found in the top-2 of any given draft).

Cheers.

[The Truth #6]

On other NBA teams sure he could start. There are a lot of shit teams out there. But he shouldn’t be a starter on ours. We don’t have the personal for it. You yourself have admitted that. You seem to be stuck in the past and that just isn’t the way the league works anymore. We aren’t built like the 04 Pistons and we aren’t coached like it either. There’s a reason why Larry Brown went to college, he couldn’t get away with the shit he pulls as a coach just the same way there is a reason why Pop babies his personal. It’s different times.

Everything today is all offense. The league has made every rule to benefit offense. You can’t even put a forearm on a big man anymore for Christ sakes. Jakob is a bench big. It probably would take 15 points a game for him to start and be effective next year bc we don’t have a true #1. And when teams focus solely on DJ next year (if we lose DDR) that only makes it that much harder to score. Jak needs DDR or else he just isn’t a starter.

Also nah he doesn’t know where to be on offense once he is in the paint. There were like 4 possessions against Philly where I was just thinking to myself take 1 step in! Do it and get that lay up! He needs to be tutored by Tiago tbh. That guy was a master.

I agree that the league is all about offense. Because the Spurs always love to do the opposite of everyone else, maybe they are prioritizing defense to go against the grain. It’s also a more logical model when you’re a small market franchise that cannot attract any top talent. Just spitballing.

[KobesAchilles]

Well I somewhat agree but disagree. We don't have the roster, but there isn't a center in the league that we have the roster to support right now because we do not have great shooters. The center is not our problem, in my opinion. It's the other guys. We have a solid defensive team. Our team is built on defense. We are Pistonesque in that we are going to win games by Spurs D, but it's a different kind of D. Spurs are not bruisers like Detroit was. The Spurs play the passing lanes and have athletes that can switch. Everyone in the starting lineup, include Jakob, can switch and guard a guy on the perimeter, even DDR can sometimes. It is our defense and pace that makes us competitive and our superior bench. Without that, we'd lose every game by 30 points.

But you could put most centers in the league on this team and you'd have the same problems on offense. We have the defense, but we need guys to continue to improve on outside shooting and shot creation and execution. We also don't have a Top Dog scorer. Those are hard to get. DDR is as close as we got. He's good, but he's more of a two. We need a star beyond him and maybe if we stink and end up in the lottery, we can get that. Otherwise, we just have to hope for internal improvement. But getting rid of Jakob won't fix that. He's a good modern center. You don't need to be a three point shooter if you can play game changing defense. Even in a league with high scoring, you need good defense. That's why the Jazz are number one and that's why the 76ers are number two. Great defenses. You need offense, but you need a good enough defense. The Spurs just need time to cook and get better and develop on offense.
i don’t want to get rid of Jak. He has improved so much that I actually want to keep him. I couldn’t say that before the year. Though I think I literally wanted everybody gone except White, Lonnie, and KJ after last years shitshow :lol

I just think Jak should be part of the super sub crew. He is a beast in spurts of the game, which is perfect for a bench player. I really don’t know what the solution is going forward. Bc we are one piece from being contenders but also like one injury from really sucking. It might be the best of both worlds if we get a run of slight injuries and end up accidentally tanking and get that “key piece” that we need

[RC_Drunkford]

Comparing Jakob Turtle to Big Ben Wallace :lmao :lmao :lmao WTF are you smoking? Big Ben wasn’t a soft bitch that got blocked by the rim. Ben Wallace was hitting turnaround J‘s against the Spurs in the finals. Poeltl airballs shots from 2 feet near the rim

[Dejounte]

In other news...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sInv6pZ-JYw

[KobesAchilles]

In other news...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sInv6pZ-JYw
Explains why he goes up soft like a girl

[itzsoweezee]

So your problem is not with Poeltl but the fact that the Spurs don't have superstars at other positions because if we did have superstars, he would be fine. So why not argue for better players at the other positions, instead of focusing on one player who's as "minimally impactful on winning" as the other guys? And *if* Poeltl was just as good as the other guys in the SL, how far would that hypothetical team go given that no one from 1-5 is a superstar? This circular reasoning is fun.

I’m not arguing anything other than the contention that he’s a player that can have an impact in the playoffs. He’s not. He’s the type of serviceable player that you can plug in on a quality team. He’s the guy that gets the last spot in a packed lineup. And if you’re expecting him to be more than that, your team Is fucked.

[Sugus]

i don’t want to get rid of Jak. He has improved so much that I actually want to keep him. I couldn’t say that before the year. Though I think I literally wanted everybody gone except White, Lonnie, and KJ after last years shitshow :lol

I just think Jak should be part of the super sub crew. He is a beast in spurts of the game, which is perfect for a bench player. I really don’t know what the solution is going forward. Bc we are one piece from being contenders but also like one injury from really sucking. It might be the best of both worlds if we get a run of slight injuries and end up accidentally tanking and get that “key piece” that we need

Not a troll post - which "piece" are we away from, that could be had realistically for the Spurs, and would put them into actual contention? From the rest of your post, I gather it'd be a C, to displace Jakob into the bench... So which big could the Spurs land, that would make them literal contenders? To be honest, I have my reservations that even someone like Embiid would be insufficient for the Spurs to contend for real. Or well, maybe Embiid does it just because he's so good, put Jokic in that bag as well, maybe even AD.... None of which will be had by the Spurs. So who else is there?

Most times, teams who are "one injury away from really sucking" are hardly also "one piece away from contention", unless that piece is a hypothetical All-NBA player coming in mercenary-style, á la Nephew, tbh.

[KobesAchilles]

Not a troll post - which "piece" are we away from, that could be had realistically for the Spurs, and would put them into actual contention? From the rest of your post, I gather it'd be a C, to displace Jakob into the bench... So which big could the Spurs land, that would make them literal contenders? To be honest, I have my reservations that even someone like Embiid would be insufficient for the Spurs to contend for real. Or well, maybe Embiid does it just because he's so good, put Jokic in that bag as well, maybe even AD.... None of which will be had by the Spurs. So who else is there?

Most times, teams who are "one injury away from really sucking" are hardly also "one piece away from contention", unless that piece is a hypothetical All-NBA player coming in mercenary-style, á la Nephew, tbh.
Nah for me that one piece is like a Luka, nephew SF guy. They don’t grow on trees which is why I said I don’t have a solution for going forward. It’s also why I said maybe we could luck our way into one with a high draft pick. And pretty much your last paragraph is what I was referring to when it comes to contention. Like Phoenix for instance, not exactly but it is my example, they had a buncha really solid pieces in Ayton, Bridges, and Booker. But they didn’t have that superstar. They get Chris Paul (even old ass CP3 is having an mvp like year) and next thing you know they are like the 2 seed in the west.

myself, I would like to re-sign DDR, just throw the max to Bridges and see where the chips land. I don’t even think that is possible going into next year but I don’t know cba stuff. For me though Bridges can be a dog for us going forward and fills up a need for us. Of course also in my fantasy land was for us to trade White/other player to Atlanta (he is the perfect backcourt partner for Trey Young) and get Bogdon and Collins back. Easy stuff :lol

[Sugus]

Nah for me that one piece is like a Luka, nephew SF guy. They don’t grow on trees which is why I said I don’t have a solution for going forward. It’s also why I said maybe we could luck our way into one with a high draft pick. And pretty much your last paragraph is what I was referring to when it comes to contention. Like Phoenix for instance, not exactly but it is my example, they had a buncha really solid pieces in Ayton, Bridges, and Booker. But they didn’t have that superstar. They get Chris Paul (even old ass CP3 is having an mvp like year) and next thing you know they are like the 2 seed in the west.

myself, I would like to re-sign DDR, just throw the max to Bridges and see where the chips land. I don’t even think that is possible going into next year but I don’t know cba stuff. For me though Bridges can be a dog for us going forward and fills up a need for us. Of course also in my fantasy land was for us to trade White/other player to Atlanta (he is the perfect backcourt partner for Trey Young) and get Bogdon and Collins back. Easy stuff :lol

Well, that's just playing into the problem then - the team's current configuration practically guarantees that, barring a Jokic-like diamond-in-the-rough pick, the Spurs won't get that Luka/Nephew kind of player out of the draft. Beyond what Spurstalk might trash-talk about the team, they're nowhere near being bad enough to tank. So it's my original point again - why is everyone so fixated on trying to change Poeltl, when he's FAR from the main separator between the Spurs and actual contention? There's no scenario, barring the Sixers gently gifting us Embiid, that both gets Poeltl in the bench, retains the rest of the lineup, AND makes the Spurs contender. There just isn't.... Bigger change is needed.

And that's the conversation I'd love to read about, see what other posters have to say. Which of our players would not be able to start for a contender? The way he's played this season, I gather the most common answer will be Lonnie, but I'd wager it goes far beyond that. I'm becoming skeptical that White, maybe even Dejounte, could be at that level... And every time we play a team with a star level PG-SG, I walk away from the screen with that same feeling.

As for the rest of your post, the Suns are nowhere near a good comparison to us, they already had Ayton and Booker, both by far better than any player currently on the Spurs at this moment. They were a piece away from contention, as we've seen this season, but not an injury away from really sucking (well, no more than any other team that could lose their superstar to injury, tbh). Also, a max to Bridges.... Interesting, I hadn't seen that before. IDK if he'd live up to it, but interesting move for sure.

[DAF86]

I guess Poeltl back to being good again.

Jak is prefectly fine as a starting center, tbh. Sure, it would be better if he could shoot, but watchagonnado? You can't have it all. He's still pretty damn good at other very important things for the position on this day and age. Things like switching and staying in front of guys while also presenting an intimidating presence inside. On defense, he's pretty much as good as it gets. On offense he does some things underratingly well, like setting some of the best screens in the league, finish and pass the ball. If he could shoot he would probably be an all-star.

Stop bitching, we could be doing much worse at the position (we could still be starting Aldridge, for example). There are many starting centers in the league who are worse than Poeltl, tbh.

[ragas]

On dribble hand offs. That’s cool, but there’s no reason to give it to him deep in the paint only for him to miss a bunny cause he can’t score with his back to the basket. Hand offs and when he’s a roller are no problem

:toast

https://twitter.com/SpursBR_/status/1371631922259038210

[exstatic]

Follow your own words, bro.

Yup. Somehow his posting awfulness and lying had escaped me, up to this point. Plonk. Onto the ignore list with him.

[PrimeMinister]

Jakobs job is be a threat on the dump off pass and finish when necessary, play excellent defense, and give us a double double type effort every single night.

If he does those things, we are in a good position to win basketball games. The defense is there. He needs to find more confidence and consistency with his offense but it will come.

Anyone clamoring to give up a legit DPOY caliber center without any clear replacement or attainable center to play in his place is just talking to hear themselves think. He’s also a year older than dejounte and a year younger than Derrick. He’s not done developing.

This is my take today, tomorrow, it will continue to be my take. If Jakob puts up 25 and 10 in our next game it will be my take, if he forgets how to play basketball and puts up 2/5 with 6 turnovers it will
be my take. Bump the thread, say whatever you want. Time will prove me right.

[exstatic]

Jakobs job is be a threat on the dump off pass and finish when necessary, play excellent defense, and give us a double double type effort every single night.

If he does those things, we are in a good position to win basketball games. The defense is there. He needs to find more confidence and consistency with his offense but it will come.

Anyone clamoring to give up a legit DPOY caliber center without any clear replacement or attainable center to play in his place is just talking to hear themselves think. He’s also a year older than dejounte and a year younger than Derrick. He’s not done developing.

This is my take today, tomorrow, it will continue to be my take. If Jakob puts up 25 and 10 in our next game it will be my take, if he forgets how to play basketball and puts up 2/5 with 6 turnovers it will
be my take. Bump the thread, say whatever you want. Time will prove me right.

It was the same thing with Bowen, back in the day, a constant clamor to get a scoring SF, defense be damned. Casuals.

[PrimeMinister]

:toast

https://twitter.com/SpursBR_/status/1371631922259038210

No one is saying he’s Jokic or Sabonis but Jakob does a great job making the right passes from that high post position and has shown an ability to thread the needle and even make difficult passes on the money at times.

You couple that with his screening ability and natural timing in hand off situations and he does yeomans work in setting up clean looks for Demar and dejounte that goes unappreciated every single night.

[ragas]

No one is saying he’s Jokic or Sabonis but Jakob does a great job making the right passes from that high post position and has shown an ability to thread the needle and even make difficult passes on the money at times.

You couple that with his screening ability and natural timing in hand off situations and he does yeomans work in setting up clean looks for Demar and dejounte that goes unappreciated every single night.

Yesterday he had 9! screen assists for 20 points in 25 minutes.

[exstatic]

Yesterday he had 9! screen assists for 20 points in 25 minutes.

Advanced stats! Argle Bargle!

[Sugus]

Yesterday he had 9! screen assists for 20 points in 25 minutes.

Lol who needs advanced stats??? Thats VIRGIN SHIT bro :lol :lol I actually WATCH the GAMES and FUCK A LOT and Potl is trash!!! LMAOOo :lmao

[Sugus]

Jakobs job is be a threat on the dump off pass and finish when necessary, play excellent defense, and give us a double double type effort every single night.

If he does those things, we are in a good position to win basketball games. The defense is there. He needs to find more confidence and consistency with his offense but it will come.

Anyone clamoring to give up a legit DPOY caliber center without any clear replacement or attainable center to play in his place is just talking to hear themselves think. He’s also a year older than dejounte and a year younger than Derrick. He’s not done developing.

This is my take today, tomorrow, it will continue to be my take. If Jakob puts up 25 and 10 in our next game it will be my take, if he forgets how to play basketball and puts up 2/5 with 6 turnovers it will
be my take. Bump the thread, say whatever you want. Time will prove me right.

Now seriously, this is the good take. I also loathe people flip-flopping on opinions of players depending on a good or bad game or two... Spurstalk at the start of the season was calling for Poeltl's head, then he got his groove going and suddenly he was the much superior option to LMA (which had been clear for a while, but anyways), then a couple of bad games and everyone's out to get him again. No nuance, no overarching analysis, just hot takes. I'm told ST wasn't always like this, and would've loved to have some more constructive conversations here than most modern posters allow.

[exstatic]

Now seriously, this is the good take. I also loathe people flip-flopping on opinions of players depending on a good or bad game or two... Spurstalk at the start of the season was calling for Poeltl's head, then he got his groove going and suddenly he was the much superior option to LMA (which had been clear for a while, but anyways), then a couple of bad games and everyone's out to get him again. No nuance, no overarching analysis, just hot takes. I'm told ST wasn't always like this, and would've loved to have some more constructive conversations here than most modern posters allow.

When LMA passed on attending the Bubble, it became clear from the elevated level of play that Poodle was the better option.

[Sugus]

When LMA passed on attending the Bubble, it became clear from the elevated level of play that Poodle was the better option.

And yet multiple posters here were endlessly complaining about his performances, especially in the Philly game IIRC, lol. I seem to recall also multiple people clamoring for LMA to get back, saying we'd be better with him than Jakob...... :lmao

[RC_Drunkford]

:toast

https://twitter.com/SpursBR_/status/1371631922259038210

that was a good pass. I'd like to see more of this. Like I said, I don't have a problem with him starting, but he needs to finish better and we need a better back up than Eubanks

[ragas]

that was a good pass. I'd like to see more of this. Like I said, I don't have a problem with him starting, but he needs to finish better and we need a better back up than Eubanks

I‘m not sure if he‘s a starter longterm. Could also be a placeholder and step back in a backup role if he‘s not consistent and gets better with his free throws. But he definitely would be one of the better backups in the NBA, who can step in if your starter gets hurt.

[John B]

that was a good pass. I'd like to see more of this. Like I said, I don't have a problem with him starting, but he needs to finish better and we need a better back up than Eubanks

Poeltl can be very talented if and when he wanted to. The problem is you need to kick this guy's ass every time. As soon as he got the starting position, he got complacent.
In contrast Eubank brings it every time. He likes to dunk ALL THE TIME, block ALL THE TIME. Eubank just need to learn to shoot 9 footers. But right now, Eubank is the perfect backup big with his energy.

[rankingtear]

Poeltl can be very talented if and when he wanted to. The problem is you need to kick this guy's ass every time. As soon as he got the starting position, he got complacent.
In contrast Eubank brings it every time. He likes to dunk ALL THE TIME, block ALL THE TIME. Eubank just need to learn to shoot 9 footers. But right now, Eubank is the perfect backup big with his energy.

Lol what?

[ragas]

Poeltl can be very talented if and when he wanted to. The problem is you need to kick this guy's ass every time. As soon as he got the starting position, he got complacent.


I disagree.

[RC_Drunkford]

I‘m not sure if he‘s a starter longterm. Could also be a placeholder and step back in a backup role if he‘s not consistent and gets better with his free throws. But he definitely would be one of the better backups in the NBA, who can step in if your starter gets hurt.

I would rather have him as a back up as well, but right now he's the best option starting. He should definitely not play more than 30 minutes per night, ideally he splits the 48 with a capable 3-point shooting big and they both play 24 minutes

[John B]

Lol what?
I guess you don't watch Spurs games because that's what Eubank wants to do every time he's close to the basket, is to dunk the ball. And you can search for his dunks, he likes to dunk on people.
My point is Eubank has been good with the energy that he brings, but with Poeltl you have to light up his ass every time. Poeltl is lazy. It took him some 20 games before he could learn to shoot FT's again. What was he doing during the break??

[rankingtear]

I guess you don't watch Spurs games because that's what Eubank wants to do every time he's close to the basket, is to dunk the ball. And you can search for his dunks, he likes to dunk on people.
My point is Eubank has been good with the energy that he brings, but with Poeltl you have to light up his ass every time. Poeltl is lazy. It took him some 20 games before he could learn to shoot FT's again. What was he doing during the break??

I was just laughing at how you describe Eubanks game.

Eubanks is shooting 44% from the field. You can't say Poeltl should be more like Eubanks. Your funny.

If you watch a lot of Drew what is his signature move?

[John B]

I was just laughing at how you describe Eubanks game.

Eubanks is shooting 44% from the field. You can't say Poeltl should be more like Eubanks. Your funny.
You need to understand the whole argument. It's the energy that Eubank brings vs Poeltl being complacent.
I already said Poeltl can be very talented if and when he wanted to.

[ragas]

You need to understand the whole argument. It's the energy that Eubank brings vs Poeltl being complacent.
I already said Poeltl can be very talented if and when he wanted to.

Poeltl is not lazy. That‘s bullshit. He‘s second in contested shots in the league (per 36), 6th in totals. You mistake energy with aggressiveness. Lack of motivation was never a problem for Poeltl.

[John B]

I was just laughing at how you describe Eubanks game.

Eubanks is shooting 44% from the field. You can't say Poeltl should be more like Eubanks. Your funny.

If you watch a lot of Drew what is his signature move?

Does Poeltl have a signature move? He can’t even hit his FT’s :lol
Really the only thing that Poeltl has over Drew is he’s a 7 footer and Drew is 6’9.
Drew has more bball skills than Poeltl

Again the point is Poeltl needs to bring it every night. We have 35 pages of this thread that says he doesn’t. He can’t even make his FT’s in the 1st 20 games of the season and playing hot potato with the ball. And in my opinion if he plays the same aggressiveness as 6’9 Eubanks, Poodle would be so much better.

[ragas]

Drew has more bball skills than Poeltl

oh man. That‘s the point to stop the discussion. You have a very limited understanding of what a bb skill is.

[exstatic]

Does Poeltl have a signature move? He can’t even hit his FT’s :lol
Really the only thing that Poeltl has over Drew is he’s a 7 footer and Drew is 6’9.
Drew has more bball skills than Poeltl

Again the point is Poeltl needs to bring it every night. We have 35 pages of this thread that says he doesn’t. He can’t even make his FT’s in the 1st 20 games of the season and playing hot potato with the ball. And in my opinion if he plays the same aggressiveness as 6’9 Eubanks, Poodle would be so much better.

The guy with the signature move is finishing at 44%. Poeltl is finishing at 67%. That’s better than Shaq. At some point, you need to say “oh, the eye test failed me” and come off this foolishness.

[The Truth #6]

Eubanks’ lack of skill is his weakness. Great motor and athleticism. Yak is so much more natural out there and the offense is smoother with him initiating pick and rolls. Is he great individually in isolation? No. But this isn’t a game of one on one.

[John B]

The guy with the signature move is finishing at 44%. Poeltl is finishing at 67%. That’s better than Shaq. At some point, you need to say “oh, the eye test failed me” and come off this foolishness.
Poodle avg about 6pg attempts for a starting C. Shaq avg over 20 pg attempts. And most are from postups, not just dish inside like Poodle gets. No comparison.
Again don’t confuse the “signature moves.” I wasn’t the one who introduced that. My point is Poeltl is complacent. If he has the same aggressiveness as 6’9 Drew, Poodle would be so much better.

[The Truth #6]

Poodle avg about 6pg attempts for a starting C. Shaq avg over 20 pg attempts. No comparison.
Again don’t confuse the “signature moves.” I wasn’t the one who introduced that. My point is Poeltl is complacent. If he has the same aggressiveness as 6’9 Drew, Poodle would be so much better.

I agree that Yak would be much better with the motor of Eubanks, not to mention his vertical pop.

[rankingtear]

Does Poeltl have a signature move? He can’t even hit his FT’s :lol
Really the only thing that Poeltl has over Drew is he’s a 7 footer and Drew is 6’9.
Drew has more bball skills than Poeltl

Again the point is Poeltl needs to bring it every night. We have 35 pages of this thread that says he doesn’t. He can’t even make his FT’s in the 1st 20 games of the season and playing hot potato with the ball. And in my opinion if he plays the same aggressiveness as 6’9 Eubanks, Poodle would be so much better.

Just asking if you knew Drew signature move ( which he has ) since you assume I don't follow Drew and watch his games.

[GAustex]

Old school hook shot
Or throw it down hard

[J_Paco]

I mean his defense is solid so he can start if we have enough offense. But the problem i foresee is that none of the young guns know how to handle an offense when the opposing teams are focused solely on them. Like right now Demar is the feature guy. Love him or hate him, he is who opposing teams look to stop first. Demar gets the double teams or goes in the teeth of the paint to find others. Nobody else on the team is consistent in this area.

The simplest solution is for Poodle to just learn to shoot from 6 feet in. I don’t need a jumper from him. As well as he positions himself defensively, he needs to do the same on offense. Too many times he is out of place when he is close to the basket. I mean the dude couldn’t even finish an ally oop. So next year would be really tough with him starting. But Poeltl hasn’t showed himself to be an off-season warrior and I’m not sure how realistic it is to expect him to improve on offense

If they can sign John Collins or an equivalent player (offensively) they automatically make things easier for Poeltl & the other young players.

He was showing before Young showed up that he can be a near 20 - 10 guy, while having a better defensive system and teammates - although, honestly Atlanta does have some talented defenders - could help him improve on that end (as well as bulking up a bit).

[John B]

Just asking if you knew Drew signature move ( which he has ) since you assume I don't follow Drew and watch his games.
I don’t know Drew’s signature move :lol. Hook shot? All I know is he likes to dunk on people baddd, and swat shots. This whole argument stems from Poeltl not giving it every night imo. He came back fromthe break not able to shoot FT’s. He got outmuscled by Porzingis, outplayed by Nicholas Claxton. While Drew seems to improve every year. And people seems to forget that Drew is 6’9 and overachieving.

[BackHome]

The biggest issue with Drew is his height if he where two inches taller he would be a great backup I like him and his energy but I would have no problems picking a Center in this years draft

[KobesAchilles]

I don’t know Drew’s signature move :lol. Hook shot? All I know is he likes to dunk on people baddd, and swat shots. This whole argument stems from Poeltl not giving it every night imo. He came back fromthe break not able to shoot FT’s. He got outmuscled by Porzingis, outplayed by Nicholas Claxton. While Drew seems to improve every year. And people seems to forget that Drew is 6’9 and overachieving.
Its a bold choice going for Drew over Poodle. Even I wouldn’t do it. But I get where you’re coming from. Drew brings energy and dunking on people instead of going up soft as fuck. Drew is also a try hard which Poodle isn’t. Dude spent the first month getting in shape and learning how to play bc he didn’t pick up an effing basketball all off-season and people just want to sweep that under the rug. Poeltl needs to show he is mature enough to take basketball seriously at all times.

[PrimeMinister]

Jakobs job is be a threat on the dump off pass and finish when necessary, play excellent defense, and give us a double double type effort every single night.

If he does those things, we are in a good position to win basketball games. The defense is there. He needs to find more confidence and consistency with his offense but it will come.

Anyone clamoring to give up a legit DPOY caliber center without any clear replacement or attainable center to play in his place is just talking to hear themselves think. He’s also a year older than dejounte and a year younger than Derrick. He’s not done developing.

This is my take today, tomorrow, it will continue to be my take. If Jakob puts up 25 and 10 in our next game it will be my take, if he forgets how to play basketball and puts up 2/5 with 6 turnovers it will
be my take. Bump the thread, say whatever you want. Time will prove me right.

Take still stands.

[TheGreatYacht]

Shutting me up these last two games.. 20 & 16 tonight, and easily an A+ game grade :tu

Hope he keeps it up

[Sugus]

:cry B-But Poeltl can't close out games or make FTs!! :cry
:cry Poeltl can't be a starter for a playoff team!! :cry
:cry Doesn't put in the effort :cry
:cry Can't score for shit :cry
:cry Doesn't have a go-to move :cry
:cry Worse than Eubanks :cry

:lmao :lmao :lmao


This thread is easily one of my favorites on the forum, tbh. Such copious stupidity, hot takes, and lack of understanding of basketball in such little pages :lol

[Dejounte]

He's been ramping up his aggressiveness lately. Maybe it's starting to "click" for him like it did with Dejounte. Dejounte was a poor finisher his first few years in the league, then he found the right angles. With Poeltl, maybe he realizes he can jump higher or attack the basket with ferocity like Eubanks. Having Eubanks must be a big plus in practice.

[NASpurs]

:cry B-But Poeltl can't close out games or make FTs!! :cry
:cry Poeltl can't be a starter for a playoff team!! :cry
:cry Doesn't put in the effort :cry
:cry Can't score for shit :cry
:cry Doesn't have a go-to move :cry
:cry Worse than Eubanks :cry

:lmao :lmao :lmao


This thread is easily one of my favorites on the forum, tbh. Such copious stupidity, hot takes, and lack of understanding of basketball in such little pages :lol

Yeah but can he shoot 3s? Checkmate atheists.

[FkLA]

I like Yak. Glad he's back. Defense, defense, defense. Refreshing af to see it being emphasized after years of worrying about "spacing".

ST thinks everyone is overpaid.

:bobo

[Sugus]

The games where Poeltl acts as a defensive anchor for the team, perfect PnR partner for our most efficient guard in White, and also an occasionally good offensive presence when he's on? Yeah, sure isn't backing up those stats...

:wakeup

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/tom_orsborn/status/1372377261689741317?s=19

[rankingtear]

Shutting me up these last two games.. 20 & 16 tonight, and easily an A+ game grade :tu

Hope he keeps it up

2 good scoring games? That's it? Points?

[GAustex]

Bulls had his and the Spurs number early. Jak stood in their like a man and continued the fight and then it turned and the floodgates opened.

Him and the other young Spurs are so fun to watch.

[DAF86]

Poeltl is a high end role player, but a role player non the less. He will have these 20 pts games and he also will have some 4 pts games. That's just the nature of every role player ever. People needs to stop bitching everytime he has those 4 pts games. Poeltl isn't in the team to provide offensive consistency, he's there to provide defensive consistency.

[slick'81]

Poooodle fucking power!

[itzsoweezee]

Saw the stats :clap

But then I saw the highlights *yikes*

This dude is throwing up prayers for layups like he’s 5’8”

[DeRozan m8]

:cry B-But Poeltl can't close out games or make FTs!! :cry
:cry Poeltl can't be a starter for a playoff team!! :cry
:cry Doesn't put in the effort :cry
:cry Can't score for shit :cry
:cry Doesn't have a go-to move :cry
:cry Worse than Eubanks :cry

:lmao :lmao :lmao


This thread is easily one of my favorites on the forum, tbh. Such copious stupidity, hot takes, and lack of understanding of basketball in such little pages :lol

Yeah, because 1 good game for every 20 failures is a fantastic way to be.

Faggot

[DAF86]

Saw the stats :clap

But then I saw the highlights *yikes*

This dude is throwing up prayers for layups like he’s 5’8”

Career 63% shooter. Whatever he does, it works, tbh.

[DAF86]

Yeah, because 1 good game for every 20 failures is a fantastic way to be.

Faggot

Your problem is thinking Poeltl plays well 1 out of 20 games, when the ratio is probably closer to the opposite, tbh. Even when he doesn't score 20 or even 10 pts in a game.

[PrimeMinister]

Saw the stats :clap

But then I saw the highlights *yikes*

This dude is throwing up prayers for layups like he’s 5’8”


He threw down one of his more vicious dunks of his career and shot 9/11 from the field what game are you watching?

I swear this forum is just a confirmation bias simulator sometimes. A bunch of people with conclusions or assumptions already in their heads and will bend over backwards to find any insignificant thing to support their assumptions. Very few just watching to observe. It’s all just grasping at straws to support some insignificant take you had that no one cares about.

[DAF86]

Gross. But Splitter got that same APY in a much smaller cap. I think that's going to put the Spurs very close to the tax once all of the contracts are signed.

Back when Chinook still thought Aldridge was the Spurs' best player. Dark times, tbh. :lol

[look_at_g_shred]

People on here complaining about one of the best players on the team? You know how many contenders would kill to have Jakob on the their team? Dude is an absolute stud.

[DAF86]

People on here complaining about one of the best players on the team? You know how many contenders would kill to have Jakob on the their team? Dude is an absolute stud.

Lebron would give his left nut to have him on the Lakers.

[itzsoweezee]

He threw down one of his more vicious dunks of his career and shot 9/11 from the field what game are you watching?

I swear this forum is just a confirmation bias simulator sometimes. A bunch of people with conclusions or assumptions already in their heads and will bend over backwards to find any insignificant thing to support their assumptions. Very few just watching to observe. It’s all just grasping at straws to support some insignificant take you had that no one cares about.

https://youtu.be/QRfvmaisxv8

[John B]

It's a better game for Poeltl, but not huge. How many layups did Poeltl give without much resistance? Zero blocks for our starting center.
He gives 5 blocks, then he got a monster game and that would win them more ball games.

[Sugus]

Yeah, because 1 good game for every 20 failures is a fantastic way to be.

Faggot

Yeah, Poeltl totally plays only 1 good game every 20, it's not like he anchors the defense every game and facilitates most offensive sets night in, night out..... Serious question, do you watch the games? Like, actually watch every game? I'm convinced some SpursTalkers either talk shit without watching, or actually don't understand enough of what's going on on the court to see how Poeltl consistently contributes to the team winning, even in nights when he's not dropping 20&16.

And TBH, given your username is "DeRozan m8", I'm kind of leaning towards the latter :lmao

[Sugus]

It's a better game for Poeltl, but not huge. How many layups did Poeltl give without much resistance? Zero blocks for our starting center.
He gives 5 blocks, then he got a monster game and that would win them more ball games.

Not huge? Career high in points and rebounds, and it's "not huge" because he didn't record blocks, heard it here first fellas :lol:lol

People will really twist reality to fit whatever narrative they have going on, it's insane. Y'all really needed someone else you could hate after Forbes left the team and "IG Baller" shut everyone up :lmao it's kind of sad, but also really entertaining. By the way, you do know rim-protection duties are shared between a C and a PF, right? How many blocks was Keldon getting when Poeltl was being dragged out into the perimeter?

Do y'all really expect Jakob to do all of defend the 3pt line, stay with his man protecting the dunkers' spot, and be on position for (mostly long) rebounds every single play? Guy can't be everywhere at once, and this game made it painfully obvious (well, clearly not obvious enough for some) how little defensive help he gets most games. Keldon is downright bad at off-ball defense and rim protection right now (you surely didn't catch Porzingis abusing him against the Mavs, huh...?), and the rest of our guards are undersized/unable to protect the rim. It's no wonder we were getting murdered in the 1st half, before the rest of the team remembered they can also play defense. If you don't believe me, rewatch the game, then tell me what Jakob was doing different in both halfs - hint: nothing.

[cjw]

The expectation some people have here... insane. And relying on counting stats vs. seeing his obvious impact to the team’s net Rtg when he’s out there.

[spurraider21]

https://i.gyazo.com/797a867eea2e6690f6f55b096c596337.png

[Sugus]

https://i.gyazo.com/797a867eea2e6690f6f55b096c596337.png

That FT% increase alongside increasing attempts is nutty. Not to mention playing almost 30MPG after some bright folks in here claimed he wouldn't ever be able to crack 20+m due to foul trouble or some shit :lol

The real question, though - is this guy better than Drummond yet? lmao

[Dverde]

Oh 50% from the FT line. Time to give Chip another raise!

[John B]

Not huge? Career high in points and rebounds, and it's "not huge" because he didn't record blocks, heard it here first fellas :lol:lol

People will really twist reality to fit whatever narrative they have going on, it's insane. Y'all really needed someone else you could hate after Forbes left the team and "IG Baller" shut everyone up :lmao it's kind of sad, but also really entertaining. By the way, you do know rim-protection duties are shared between a C and a PF, right? How many blocks was Keldon getting when Poeltl was being dragged out into the perimeter?

Do y'all really expect Jakob to do all of defend the 3pt line, stay with his man protecting the dunkers' spot, and be on position for (mostly long) rebounds every single play? Guy can't be everywhere at once, and this game made it painfully obvious (well, clearly not obvious enough for some) how little defensive help he gets most games. Keldon is downright bad at off-ball defense and rim protection right now (you surely didn't catch Porzingis abusing him against the Mavs, huh...?), and the rest of our guards are undersized/unable to protect the rim. It's no wonder we were getting murdered in the 1st half, before the rest of the team remembered they can also play defense. If you don't believe me, rewatch the game, then tell me what Jakob was doing different in both halfs - hint: nothing.

Bruh I'd be happy for Poeltl to get a huge game. I'm a Spurs fan for over 30 years. I like them to win.
But it's wrong to say Poeltl got a huge game when Young, LeVine and even Satoransky was getting points on a layup against Poeltl. Do me a favor and watch the highlights. Bulls were not hitting the 3 as much, but all points in the paint with Poeltl as the main defender.

Poeltl is very capable of swatting 5 shots in a game. He used to do it. He had ZERO block last night.
In games that Spurs lost, we didn't have interior defense, and that's how defenders scurry to help and leave the open 3's.

Give me rim protection and rebound. Poeltl could score less and I would call it a huge game for him.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Bruh I'd be happy for Poeltl to get a huge game. I'm a Spurs fan for over 30 years. I like them to win.
But it's wrong to say Poeltl got a huge game when Young, LeVine and even Satoransky was getting points on a layup against Poeltl. Do me a favor and watch the highlights. Bulls were not hitting the 3 as much, but all points in the paint with Poeltl as the main defender.

Poeltl is very capable of swatting 5 shots in a game. He used to do it. He had ZERO block last night.
In games that Spurs lost, we didn't have interior defense, and that's how defenders scurry to help and leave the open 3's.

Give me rim protection and rebound. Poeltl could score less and I would call it a huge game for him.

This is why people should watch the games before making bold claims based on highlights or box scores.

Poeltl was very active on D and altered a lot of shots all over the court. His interior and perimeter defense was amazing and he did have blocks that didn't make it to the box score for some reason. Not that the number of blocks in isolation matter anyway. He's contesting shots all the time.

[Chomag]

As long as he can do the dirty work, be active on D and keep a decent % as a key roleplayer then his contact is a bargain.

He does need to work on his free-throw % though so that can stay in late game without becoming a liability. Hopefully he can get somewhere around lower 70% one day at least.

[The Truth #6]

He reminds me of Oberto but much better on defense. In a league of ball hog prima donnas I will take him. Definitely over LMA.

[John B]

This is why people should watch the games before making bold claims based on highlights or box scores.

Poeltl was very active on D and altered a lot of shots all over the court. His interior and perimeter defense was amazing and he did have blocks that didn't make it to the box score for some reason. Not that the number of blocks in isolation matter anyway. He's contesting shots all the time.

Bruh I watched the game, and maybe a few who stayed with it when lowly Bulls were getting their ways :lol:lol. Okay then, do me a favor and watch the whole game again and not the highlights. Young was getting layups after layups, and Satoransky even joined in the fun. I commend Poeltl for getting 16 points (much of it was dish inside :lol), but please don’t tell me he did a great job at the rim. That’s all I’m saying. It was a very good game for Jakob, but great?? Come on

[spurraider21]

That FT% increase alongside increasing attempts is nutty. Not to mention playing almost 30MPG after some bright folks in here claimed he wouldn't ever be able to crack 20+m due to foul trouble or some shit :lol

The real question, though - is this guy better than Drummond yet? lmao
:lol :bobo

[ragas]

Not huge? Career high in points and rebounds, and it's "not huge" because he didn't record blocks, heard it here first fellas :lol:lol

even if you add 5 blocks... he‘s way overpaid for those guys :bang

[slick'81]

Our starting fucking center:cry

[RC_Drunkford]

The reason why the Bulls got so many lay ups is that they played Markannen at the 5 which drew Poeltl out to the perimeter. It’s normal that they gonna get more shots at the rim when Jakob has to guard Markannen at the 3-point line. This is the exact reason why I want a 3-Point shooting big coming off the bench. Just so we can switch things up if the offense is struggling.
He had a great game, scored consistently, finished much stronger, rebounded well. I have no complaints. Hope he keeps playing like this.

[spurraider21]

Jakob 2.0

[Sugus]

Bruh I'd be happy for Poeltl to get a huge game. I'm a Spurs fan for over 30 years. I like them to win.
But it's wrong to say Poeltl got a huge game when Young, LeVine and even Satoransky was getting points on a layup against Poeltl. Do me a favor and watch the highlights. Bulls were not hitting the 3 as much, but all points in the paint with Poeltl as the main defender.

Poeltl is very capable of swatting 5 shots in a game. He used to do it. He had ZERO block last night.
In games that Spurs lost, we didn't have interior defense, and that's how defenders scurry to help and leave the open 3's.

Give me rim protection and rebound. Poeltl could score less and I would call it a huge game for him.

Poeltl had a huge game, bruh, that's what you're missing. The fact that it doesn't meet your personal criteria for "great" due to missing blocks in the statline doesn't change the fact that it was, for everyone else who watched the game, a great performance from him.

I think you're really conflating Blocks = Defense here, tbh. You can perfectly defend the rim, deter shots in the paint, and otherwise alter the flow of the offense near the rim, without recording a single block (did Timmy record a block every single game? No...); and likewise, you can record many blocks, yet be uneffective as a rim protector or defensive anchor (matter-of-factly, Eubanks had 2 blocks, yet didn't protect the rim nor defend the paint and perimeter nearly as well as Jakob - would you say he had the better defensive performance?). Yes, many Bulls players scored on Poeltl - as I told you, and RC_Drunkford also pointed out, he was busy defending the perimeter players of the Bulls, mainly Lauri and switching on Lavine occasionally, which directly hinders his ability to be present at the rim in time to contest and block shots. Much harder to block shots when you're actively having to run after the opposing player from the 3pt line, tbh, and Poeltl had to do that many times last night.

Ideally, you want to have an also strong, defensive and shooting PF alongside Jakob, who can switch rim-protection duties with him when either is defending the perimeter, someone like Luka for example (it's no wonder the Spurs defense was markedly better with him alongside Jakob, and a mystery why he's not playing now). Right now, our first option at PF is either DeMar, who doesn't nearly have the body or defensive chops to fulfill this role, or Keldon, who isn't yet a good off-ball defender, much less a rim deterrent. So Jakob is mostly alone in that job (and if you watched the game, you had to notice Jak trying to play 1-on-5 on the defensive end that 1st quarter, he was getting no help whatsoever).

So, that's a long winded way to say your criteria for whether Poeltl plays good or doesn't, is not good. He had a great game, and we'd be incredibly lucky (and dominant) if we could get that Jakob every night. The reality is that yesterday's performance was closer to Jak's ceiling than to his mean... For better and worse :lol

[Ice009]

I hope John B isn't using blocks as a determining factor in what is good defense. Marcus Camby won defensive player of the year one year where Tim Duncan was a superior defender and he couldn't even guard Tim Duncan in the playoffs. They had to take him off of TD and use Nene instead, and that was the guy the NBA gave the defensive player of the year to. The reason I mention this is because Camby lead the league in blocks that year, but IMO he was nowhere near as good of a defender as TD was. He wrongly won that award due to averaging a high amount of blocks.

A high amount of blocks doesn't always mean you're a good defender. I'd much rather a guy that can stick to his man and alter more shots than someone that gets 3-5 blocks a game, but can't guard his man or alter the shots of the person he's the primary defender of.

[exstatic]

I hope John B isn't using blocks as a determining factor in what is good defense. Marcus Camby won defensive player of the year one year where Tim Duncan was a superior defender and he couldn't even guard Tim Duncan in the playoffs. They had to take him off of TD and use Nene instead, and that was the guy the NBA gave the defensive player of the year to. The reason I mention this is because Camby lead the league in blocks that year, but IMO he was nowhere near as good of a defender as TD was. He wrongly won that award due to averaging a high amount of blocks.

A high amount of blocks doesn't always mean you're a good defender. I'd much rather a guy that can stick to his man and alter more shots than someone that gets 3-5 blocks a game, but can't guard his man or alter the shots of the person he's the primary defender of.

Splitter was an elite rim protector, and had very few blocks.

[Spursfanfromafar]

I wish there was a stat that tracked how many blocked shots resulted in turnovers, rather than out of bound plays with possession still with the opposing team. Jakob, I have noticed, has an excellent timing on his blocked shots - reminds me of TD - and in doing so, allows the ball to be won over by the Spurs for a new possession instead of being sent out of bounds a la Dwight Howard/ JaVale McGee highlight blocks.

[John B]

I hope John B isn't using blocks as a determining factor in what is good defense. Marcus Camby won defensive player of the year one year where Tim Duncan was a superior defender and he couldn't even guard Tim Duncan in the playoffs. They had to take him off of TD and use Nene instead, and that was the guy the NBA gave the defensive player of the year to. The reason I mention this is because Camby lead the league in blocks that year, but IMO he was nowhere near as good of a defender as TD was. He wrongly won that award due to averaging a high amount of blocks.

A high amount of blocks doesn't always mean you're a good defender. I'd much rather a guy that can stick to his man and alter more shots than someone that gets 3-5 blocks a game, but can't guard his man or alter the shots of the person he's the primary defender of.

I mentioned Poeltl's lack of rim protection because Spurs let the Bulls score 58 points in the 1st half. And it wasn't because the Bulls were hitting 3's crazy, but by scoring in the paint. It easily could have been an ugly lost to a lowly team, and people would've been bitching how the Spurs played miserably. Luckily it was the PRESS DEFENSE in the 4th that created TO's and Spurs hitting timely baskets. And YES Poeltl was VERY much a part of that press defense. Great defense! I was talking about rim protection, swatting layups, altering shots. I want Poeltl to be a defensive beast in the paint, besides being able to switch on PNR. Luckily he scored 20 pts and rebounded 16, and that's why people here are calling it a huge game :lol:lol:lol

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

I mentioned Poeltl's lack of rim protection because Spurs let the Bulls score 58 points in the 1st half. And it wasn't because the Bulls were hitting 3's crazy, but by scoring in the paint. It easily could have been an ugly lost to a lowly team, and people would've been bitching how the Spurs played miserably. Luckily it was the PRESS DEFENSE in the 4th that created TO's and Spurs hitting timely baskets. And YES Poeltl was VERY part of that press defense. Great defense! I was talking about rim protection, swatting layups, altering shots. I want Poeltl to be a defensive beast in the paint, besides being able to switch on PNR. Luckily he scored 20 pts and rebounded 16, and that's why people here are calling it a huge game :lol:lol:lol

Again, you say you've watched the game. I've no idea what you have seen, but go check the stats from the game - Poeltl contested 25 shots in that game - 18 2pt shots and 7 3pt shots. The second best was Murray with 9 contests. In fact no other player had contested as many shots in a game since before the all star break.

[John B]

Again, you say you've watched the game. I've no idea what you have seen, but go check the stats from the game - Poeltl contested 25 shots in that game - 18 2pt shots and 7 3pt shots. The second best was Murray with 9 contests. In fact no other player had contested as many shots in a game since before the all star break.

Great then. Poeltl had a great game, that's why Spurs almost lost big if not for a miraculous rally in the 4th, helped by the Bulls playing the 2nd night of a back to back.
Poeltl dominated the paint. Geez how the Spurs defense standard sunk

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Great then. Poeltl had a great game, that's why Spurs almost lost big if not for a miraculous rally in the 4th, helped by the Bulls playing the 2nd night of a back to back.
Poeltl dominated the paint. Geez how the Spurs defense standard sunk

Well he really did. Also Spurs have a top 10 defense, on par with the Bucks. I've no idea how someone could have expected better.

[Seventyniner]

Well he really did. Also Spurs have a top 10 defense, on par with the Bucks. I've no idea how someone could have expected better.

I just found out that the Four Factors rankings on cleaningtheglass.com aren't behind their paywall.
https://cleaningtheglass.com/stats/league/fourfactors

What's good about those stats is that they exclude garbage time. The Spurs rank 6th in points allowed per 100 possessions outside of garbage time, and I saw a tweet last week saying they were 4th at the time. The Spurs' defense is legitimately very good. The offense only ranks 18th outside of garbage time and is bottom-8 in 3 of the 4 factors, with the league-best turnover rate being the only saving grace.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

I just found out that the Four Factors rankings on cleaningtheglass.com aren't behind their paywall.
https://cleaningtheglass.com/stats/league/fourfactors

What's good about those stats is that they exclude garbage time. The Spurs rank 6th in points allowed per 100 possessions outside of garbage time, and I saw a tweet last week saying they were 4th at the time. The Spurs' defense is legitimately very good. The offense only ranks 18th outside of garbage time and is bottom-8 in 3 of the 4 factors, with the league-best turnover rate being the only saving grace.

The most impressive of all is the opp FT rate - they play good defense while not fouling, which is incredibly exciting for such a young team. They can legitimately grow into a defensive powerhouse, especially having in mind they've barely had White yet. Offense on the other hand... I've no idea how they can fix this.

[PrimeMinister]

Great then. Poeltl had a great game, that's why Spurs almost lost big if not for a miraculous rally in the 4th, helped by the Bulls playing the 2nd night of a back to back.
Poeltl dominated the paint. Geez how the Spurs defense standard sunk

Poeltl keeping them even remotely in the ball game early on allowed the team to stay in position for a comeback into the fourth quarter

again, confirmation bias simulator in full effect. In your mind, Poeltl=bad. It doesn’t matter what actually transpired, the conclusion in your mind must be reality. You claim his rim protection wasn’t acceptable and quote blocks as the reason why. You get told why that’s bogus with historical comparison with Camby and Duncan and why blocks aren’t a decent metric to compare overall defense. Then you get presented with actual data as to how many shots Jakob is able to contest- but you again decide to run from the truth and just say everyone else’s standards have sunk.

Jakob is a good player. He’s not a perfect player, but he’s a good one and he’s getting better. When he plays well the spurs win basketball games. When DJ and Derrick started the game like a combined 2-20 from the field- his contributions early and throughout were a huge reason the deficit wasn’t completely insurmountable

[PrimeMinister]

The most impressive of all is the opp FT rate - they play good defense while not fouling, which is incredibly exciting for such a young team. They can legitimately grow into a defensive powerhouse, especially having in mind they've barely had White yet. Offense on the other hand... I've no idea how they can fix this.

Dejounte and Keldon need to threaten 40% from 3 on ~4 attempts a game and be willing to let it fly every time they have even a crack of day light.

I think by this time next year it’s possible. DJ especially needs to turn some of those 18 footers into 3s.

[Sugus]

Again, you say you've watched the game. I've no idea what you have seen, but go check the stats from the game - Poeltl contested 25 shots in that game - 18 2pt shots and 7 3pt shots. The second best was Murray with 9 contests. In fact no other player had contested as many shots in a game since before the all star break.

:wow :wow :wow

Really goes to show how SpursTalk will bitch about everything and anything that they don't deem to their liking. By the way, where'd you get that stat? I'd love to look at it on the regular after games

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

:wow :wow :wow

Really goes to show how SpursTalk will bitch about everything and anything that they don't deem to their liking. By the way, where'd you get that stat? I'd love to look at it on the regular after games

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/hustle/

[J_Paco]

He reminds me of Oberto but much better on defense. In a league of ball hog prima donnas I will take him. Definitely over LMA.

He's a combination of traits from Oberto and Splitter, so I understand why the Spurs took him in the "most lopsided trade ever."

A lot of dumb ass trolls on here really, really under stating how impactful Poeltl has been over the last few games the team has won. He does a lot of the little things, sort of like Tim Duncan, that don't end up on the stat sheet & while anchoring an undersized defensive unit (that has climbed to 8th in DRTG).

He and Eubanks have stepped up a ton since LaMarcus essentially "quit" on the team and they've both been forced into larger roles. I love how both guys have been performing & hope they can continue to show this level of consistency & impact.

That would allow the team to allocate dollars in other pressing areas like a quality starting PF (Keldon shouldn't be a full - time PF) or a versatile, two - way combo forward (if one is even available).

[Seventyniner]

Dejounte and Keldon need to threaten 40% from 3 on ~4 attempts a game and be willing to let it fly every time they have even a crack of day light.

I think by this time next year it’s possible. DJ especially needs to turn some of those 18 footers into 3s.

This right here.

Maybe I've been infected by Morey-ball, but every time Murray, or anyone else (including players from other teams!), crosses halfcourt, gets a screen and uses it to take a pull-up 17-footer with 16 seconds on the shot clock, part of me dies inside. I hate those shots. No ball movement, an inefficient shot, and it forces the other teammates to hustle all the way back quickly because 1 or 2 of them are usually in the corner, out of position for a rebound and as far away from the opponent's basket as they can get.

Murray and DDR are shooting 48.4% and 51.7% on long 2s respectively, which is actually very good compared to the league average of 40.9%. Both numbers are outliers compared to their careers, though: Murray shots 43.1% and DDR 43.2% on long 2s last season. But consider that they would only need to shoot 32.3% (Murray) and 34.5% (DDR) from three to equal that efficiency, and shooting threes instead also has the added benefit of opening up more space in the middle for someone like Poeltl to do some high post passing.

[KobesAchilles]

All I’m saying is that Poeltl had to score a shit ton of points in order for us to beat the Bulls. He has to step up his scoring in order for us to win games if we both start him going forward AND lose Demar. People on here saying he can still score his 6 points a game and we will be fine and still win. That’s a buncha horseshit

[J_Paco]

All I’m saying is that Poeltl had to score a shit ton of points in order for us to beat the Bulls. He has to step up his scoring in order for us to win games if we both start him going forward AND lose Demar. People on here saying he can still score his 6 points a game and we will be fine and still win. That’s a buncha horseshit

He definitely needs to be a double - digit scorer and provide some offense as a starter (averaging 8.9 so far starting). The issue is he doesn't see the ball like his college days (23.8 USG% in college versus 13.1% as a Spur), plus that isn't what he's asked to provide.

I just want him to finish stronger inside, find a go - to move (other than his reliable flip/standing floater), shoot better from the line (at least 60% - 65%) & score on mismatches inside or in the post. The post up offense is the least necessary, but he should still provide it on switches or mismatches especially with his 7' or 7'1" frame.

[look_at_g_shred]

All I’m saying is that Poeltl had to score a shit ton of points in order for us to beat the Bulls. He has to step up his scoring in order for us to win games if we both start him going forward AND lose Demar. People on here saying he can still score his 6 points a game and we will be fine and still win. That’s a buncha horseshit
The reason he had to score so much is because everyone else was a non factor on offense.

[John B]

Poeltl keeping them even remotely in the ball game early on allowed the team to stay in position for a comeback into the fourth quarter

again, confirmation bias simulator in full effect. In your mind, Poeltl=bad. It doesn’t matter what actually transpired, the conclusion in your mind must be reality. You claim his rim protection wasn’t acceptable and quote blocks as the reason why. You get told why that’s bogus with historical comparison with Camby and Duncan and why blocks aren’t a decent metric to compare overall defense. Then you get presented with actual data as to how many shots Jakob is able to contest- but you again decide to run from the truth and just say everyone else’s standards have sunk.

Jakob is a good player. He’s not a perfect player, but he’s a good one and he’s getting better. When he plays well the spurs win basketball games. When DJ and Derrick started the game like a combined 2-20 from the field- his contributions early and throughout were a huge reason the deficit wasn’t completely insurmountable

I didn't say Poeltl is a bad player :lol:lol:lol. If your definition of "huge" game is 20/16, great. That's your opinion. I wouldn't say great because I wish Poeltl would be more tough around the rim, as he is very capable and has done with gusto in the past. Poeltl to me has a tendency to be complacent. Him coming back from the break and took him 20+ games to learn how to sink FT's is a great example. I'm hoping Poeltl will have double-doubles tonight (geez that would be something) and maybe a block or two?

[KobesAchilles]

The reason he had to score so much is because everyone else was a non factor on offense.
That’s going to happen a lot with this team. We have no real #1 in the youth and bc they are young they are going to have off games quite a bit as they adjust to defenses being geared to stopping only them.

[BackHome]

I will be the first to admit that I have been critical of Poodle but I have to give him credit he played a very GOOD game the other night against the Bulls. His defense was very good and he was looking for the ball on the offensive side I like that and hope he continues to be a little more aggressive. Sometimes you have to call your own players out and let them know that they gotta feed ya to and reward your defense with some easy roll to the basket dunks.

[The Truth #6]

He's a combination of traits from Oberto and Splitter, so I understand why the Spurs took him in the "most lopsided trade ever."

A lot of dumb ass trolls on here really, really under stating how impactful Poeltl has been over the last few games the team has won. He does a lot of the little things, sort of like Tim Duncan, that don't end up on the stat sheet & while anchoring an undersized defensive unit (that has climbed to 8th in DRTG).

He and Eubanks have stepped up a ton since LaMarcus essentially "quit" on the team and they've both been forced into larger roles. I love how both guys have been performing & hope they can continue to show this level of consistency & impact.

That would allow the team to allocate dollars in other pressing areas like a quality starting PF (Keldon shouldn't be a full - time PF) or a versatile, two - way combo forward (if one is even available).

Exactly.

[spurraider21]

That FT% increase alongside increasing attempts is nutty. Not to mention playing almost 30MPG after some bright folks in here claimed he wouldn't ever be able to crack 20+m due to foul trouble or some shit :lol

The real question, though - is this guy better than Drummond yet? lmao
:wakeup

[DAF86]

8 and 12. That's more the type of game we should expect from the AusTrain.
.

[RC_Drunkford]

That FT% increase alongside increasing attempts is nutty. Not to mention playing almost 30MPG after some bright folks in here claimed he wouldn't ever be able to crack 20+m due to foul trouble or some shit :lol

The real question, though - is this guy better than Drummond yet? lmao

well he played 25 minutes due to foul trouble tonight so...

[Sugus]

:wakeup


well he played 25 minutes due to foul trouble tonight so...

25 > 20, is it not...? :wakeup

And he did it with some disgusting refereeing against the Spurs. Refs were betting on that over for sure...

[buttsR4rebounding]

Ideally, you want to have an also strong, defensive and shooting PF alongside Jakob, who can switch rim-protection duties with him when either is defending the perimeter, someone like Luka for example (it's no wonder the Spurs defense was markedly better with him alongside Jakob, and a mystery why he's not playing now). Right now, our first option at PF is either DeMar, who doesn't nearly have the body or defensive chops to fulfill this role, or Keldon, who isn't yet a good off-ball defender, much less a rim deterrent. So Jakob is mostly alone in that job (and if you watched the game, you had to notice Jak trying to play 1-on-5 on the defensive end that 1st quarter, he was getting no help whatsoever).

:lol

I’ve said the same thing in one of the trade threads. This team won’t reach it’s potential until Luka is playing the 4. This team needs more size at the 4. I think either White goes to the bench and DDR slides to the 2 and Keldon to the 3 or Keldon comes off the bench. IMO you will raise both the defensive performance and offensive potential. Pop’s decision making this year continues to be brutal.

[exstatic]

25 > 20, is it not...? :wakeup

And he did it with some disgusting refereeing against the Spurs. Refs were betting on that over for sure...

They called him for a foul 2 seconds into the game. Another time, he came back in, and was called for a foul on the first defensive possession. WTF?

[mo7888]

I’ve said the same thing in one of the trade threads. This team won’t reach it’s potential until Luka is playing the 4. This team needs more size at the 4. I think either White goes to the bench and DDR slides to the 2 and Keldon to the 3 or Keldon comes off the bench. IMO you will raise both the defensive performance and offensive potential. Pop’s decision making this year continues to be brutal.

I agree with you on Luka... he's the key to this team reaching its potential. We really need to get him minutes this season. Hopefully we can move Rudy by the deadline and give Luka those minutes.

[ragas]

They called him for a foul 2 seconds into the game. Another time, he came back in, and was called for a foul on the first defensive possession. WTF?

https://twitter.com/thetyjager/status/1373058666199457792?s=12

https://twitter.com/thetyjager/status/1373081652021321729?s=21

[DAF86]

https://twitter.com/thetyjager/status/1373058666199457792?s=12

https://twitter.com/thetyjager/status/1373081652021321729?s=21

Pop needs to start calling out the refs on this shit. Prop Poeltl up as the elite rim protector that he is and build that reputation. We need the rest of the NBA and the refs to know what's up.

[Sugus]

https://twitter.com/thetyjager/status/1373058666199457792?s=12

https://twitter.com/thetyjager/status/1373081652021321729?s=21

Thanks for the highlights! Such bullshit calls... Second one was all fucking ball, challenge that shit Pop SMH. I don't mind if you lose the challenge, just complain, scream at the refs, don't let them neuter our best defender and rim protector in the 1st quarter of the game. Set the tone early so they let the guys play some defense.

It's also insane how mostly everyone recognizes Jakob gets called for some bullshit fouls, even in gamethreads people complain, then they come here and complain about him being "unable to stay on the court due to too much fouling!!". Like bruh, you're seeing the shit he gets called for, how can you blame Poeltl? I'd rather he plays hard defense evey night, and fouls out every once in a while, than play :lol modern NBA "defense" :lol and be wholly uneffective but stay in the game every time.

[Seventyniner]

I didn't get to start watching until the 4th, but Poeltl had that Duncan-like incredulous face on several calls in the 4th. Now I can see why he was so frustrated, given what happened earlier in the game.

This will just have to be growing pains, players (especially bigs) have to learn how to keep playing good basketball even when the calls aren't going your way. It's one thing to be told this, but another to actually go through it and internalize it. At least it was a win.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Jakob has had some sh!tty calls against him lately. The Spurs are getting the bottom-feeder treatment from the refs these days. Silver must have issued the order to move the Spurs down the standings because they're threatening to make the post season.

[SpursDynasty85]

https://twitter.com/thetyjager/status/1373058666199457792?s=12

https://twitter.com/thetyjager/status/1373081652021321729?s=21

let me guess Spurs did not challenge any of these and later lost the one they used.

[KobesAchilles]

He scores 4 points and we lose to a shitty ass CHA team. My whole argument that we need him to score more in order to win is looking better and better.

[SpursDynasty85]

need a PF/C to compliment Jakob. Preferably one that can play along side him for bigger lineups and matchups and one that puts Jakob on the bench for smaller lineups. I assume our forwards will be Luka and Keldon.

[The Truth #6]

He scores 4 points and we lose to a shitty ass CHA team. My whole argument that we need him to score more in order to win is looking better and better.

He needs to look to score more for sure. Occasionally he will fake a handoff and drive straight to the hoop. At least do more of that. Keep the defense aware of you at least.

[buttsR4rebounding]

I mentioned Poeltl's lack of rim protection because Spurs let the Bulls score 58 points in the 1st half. And it wasn't because the Bulls were hitting 3's crazy, but by scoring in the paint. It easily could have been an ugly lost to a lowly team, and people would've been bitching how the Spurs played miserably. Luckily it was the PRESS DEFENSE in the 4th that created TO's and Spurs hitting timely baskets. And YES Poeltl was VERY much a part of that press defense. Great defense! I was talking about rim protection, swatting layups, altering shots. I want Poeltl to be a defensive beast in the paint, besides being able to switch on PNR. Luckily he scored 20 pts and rebounded 16, and that's why people here are calling it a huge game :lol:lol:lol

All the points in the paint were because we have a 6’5” guy at PF. As good as Poeltl is protecting the rim he spent a lot of time on the perimeter as 7 3 point contests attests to. That’s when you need a secondary rim protector which we don’t have in the starting line up.

[exstatic]

He scores 4 points and we lose to a shitty ass CHA team. My whole argument that we need him to score more in order to win is looking better and better.

Lonnie scored 3.

[exstatic]

All the points in the paint were because we have a 6’5” guy at PF. As good as Poeltl is protecting the rim he spent a lot of time on the perimeter as 7 3 point contests attests to. That’s when you need a secondary rim protector which we don’t have in the starting line up.

White is one of the best blocking guards/wings in the league. He had 3 in a game very recently.

[exstatic]

All the points in the paint were because we have a 6’5” guy at PF. As good as Poeltl is protecting the rim he spent a lot of time on the perimeter as 7 3 point contests attests to. That’s when you need a secondary rim protector which we don’t have in the starting line up.

Dejounte and more recently, Lonnie,Naldo score in the paint.

[Sugus]

All the points in the paint were because we have a 6’5” guy at PF. As good as Poeltl is protecting the rim he spent a lot of time on the perimeter as 7 3 point contests attests to. That’s when you need a secondary rim protector which we don’t have in the starting line up.

This is exactly the thing that Poeltl doomers never seem to grasp. Just like the other day, we when played the Bulls, after which i-don't-recall-who was shitting on Jakob for "not guarding enough" of players. Jakob was perfectly finely defending the perimeter from Lavine & Co, but was also forced to run back to the rim a ton because there's just nobody there when he's out. Keldon, for all his rebounding prowess and strength, doesn't have the rim protection instincts nor skill to help Jakob, Rudy is just laughably bad, and DeRozan at PF even more so. Luka is the clear best option here, and he visibly made the Spurs much stronger on defense exactly because of his versatility and ability to stay with players into the paint, or deny them the paint altogether. But he's not playing because of Pop..... So we get these shitty losses.

Having a PF that could defend both rim and perimeter would allow Jakob, and the rest of the team, to play much better D and protect the rim better. Hopefully one of those rumored trades pulls through. If not, I'd really like to see what Luka's got, but it's looking like we won't get to see it this season barring a Rudy trade.

[The Truth #6]

This is exactly the thing that Poeltl doomers never seem to grasp. Just like the other day, we when played the Bulls, after which i-don't-recall-who was shitting on Jakob for "not guarding enough" of players. Jakob was perfectly finely defending the perimeter from Lavine & Co, but was also forced to run back to the rim a ton because there's just nobody there when he's out. Keldon, for all his rebounding prowess and strength, doesn't have the rim protection instincts nor skill to help Jakob, Rudy is just laughably bad, and DeRozan at PF even more so. Luka is the clear best option here, and he visibly made the Spurs much stronger on defense exactly because of his versatility and ability to stay with players into the paint, or deny them the paint altogether. But he's not playing because of Pop..... So we get these shitty losses.

Having a PF that could defend both rim and perimeter would allow Jakob, and the rest of the team, to play much better D and protect the rim better. Hopefully one of those rumored trades pulls through. If not, I'd really like to see what Luka's got, but it's looking like we won't get to see it this season barring a Rudy trade.

Good points.

I joke that Pop overdevelops young players sometimes. Like, its good to make young players earn their minutes, but when they do what you ask them to do, then you need to reward them with minutes. Luka might not play again until next year and he hopefully will do great. But he was already having a few great games on defense a few weeks ago. Even The Ringer noticed. And we aren’t letting him get experience now because why exactly? The tough love worked. Now just play the dude!

[buttsR4rebounding]

This is exactly the thing that Poeltl doomers never seem to grasp. Just like the other day, we when played the Bulls, after which i-don't-recall-who was shitting on Jakob for "not guarding enough" of players. Jakob was perfectly finely defending the perimeter from Lavine & Co, but was also forced to run back to the rim a ton because there's just nobody there when he's out. Keldon, for all his rebounding prowess and strength, doesn't have the rim protection instincts nor skill to help Jakob, Rudy is just laughably bad, and DeRozan at PF even more so. Luka is the clear best option here, and he visibly made the Spurs much stronger on defense exactly because of his versatility and ability to stay with players into the paint, or deny them the paint altogether. But he's not playing because of Pop..... So we get these shitty losses.

Having a PF that could defend both rim and perimeter would allow Jakob, and the rest of the team, to play much better D and protect the rim better. Hopefully one of those rumored trades pulls through. If not, I'd really like to see what Luka's got, but it's looking like we won't get to see it this season barring a Rudy trade.

This. Luka could make this defense the best in the league. Keldon playing the 3 IMO makes him even more effective. If DDR is still here he plays the 2.

[KobesAchilles]

Lonnie scored 3.
Bench player doing bench player things. Nothing to see compared to a starter

[exstatic]

Bench player doing bench player things. Nothing to see compared to a starter
Expected scorer NOT doing expected scorer things. Lonnie also has MUCH more control over whether he scores or not, being a ball handler. Poodle is dependent on a pass.

[RC_Drunkford]

All the points in the paint were because we have a 6’5” guy at PF. As good as Poeltl is protecting the rim he spent a lot of time on the perimeter as 7 3 point contests attests to. That’s when you need a secondary rim protector which we don’t have in the starting line up.

which is exactly why I want John Collins

[Dejounte]

which is exactly why I want John Collins

He ain't coming here.

[KobesAchilles]

Expected scorer NOT doing expected scorer things. Lonnie also has MUCH more control over whether he scores or not, being a ball handler. Poodle is dependent on a pass.
You are actually proving my point more and more with each post :lol
Young guys will be inconsistent scorers going forward (and Lonnie is as inconsistent as it gets) without DDR so we need are going to need Poeltl to score more in order for us to win. Next year, the games Poeltl scores single digits will have a lot more L's than they do W's.

[PrimeMinister]

Post-DDR if the spurs are relying on scoring output from Jakob Poeltl instead of an offense led by a more mature Dejounte, Derrick and Keldon with Lonnie and Luka serving as the bench and auxiliary scorers they have bigger problems than a center

[exstatic]

Post-DDR if the spurs are relying on scoring output from Jakob Poeltl instead of an offense led by a more mature Dejounte, Derrick and Keldon with Lonnie and Luka serving as the bench and auxiliary scorers they have bigger problems than a center

[Sugus]

Good points.

I joke that Pop overdevelops young players sometimes. Like, its good to make young players earn their minutes, but when they do what you ask them to do, then you need to reward them with minutes. Luka might not play again until next year and he hopefully will do great. But he was already having a few great games on defense a few weeks ago. Even The Ringer noticed. And we aren’t letting him get experience now because why exactly? The tough love worked. Now just play the dude!

For sure, I don't think it's a joke whatsoever, and Lonnie (despite all his physical problems and shit he's going through) is all you need to see, without getting into Luka. I'm holding out the faintest bit of hope that we get to see more of Luka after the trade deadline's passed, but it's definitely more likely he's benched until next season, or whenever Pop feels like he's "gotten over himself". Maybe when he changes his IG bio :lol

[Sugus]

Also, I'm gonna leave this here (should it warrant its own post? Maybe...), since this thread is probably the one where we've most talked about stretch 5's and how the Spurs "NEED" one;

The Myth Of The Stretch 5 (https://thef5.substack.com/p/stretch-lie)


The Center who can both anchor a defense and stroke the three has become a hallmark of the modern NBA. Brook Lopez, Myles Turner, Serge Ibaka and countless other Bigs have been dubbed “Stretch 5s” for their perceived ability to bend a defense via the threat of their three point shot. In theory, these players “stretch” the floor by dragging their defender (often a rim protector) out of the paint and toward the perimeter to create more space w and efficient opportunities for teammates to score around the basket.

But in reality, defenses are happy to leave Stretch 5s open and dare them to shoot. If you browse through the three-point shot logs for just about any Stretch 5 you’re more likely to land on a clip that shows them open than one that shows them guarded. That’s because Centers — even the sweetest-shooting ones — are left wide open on an inordinate number of their three point attempts.


(...) the difference in how frequently these guys take contested threes compared to a small ball 5 like Gallinari is massive.

Every other player on this table not already mentioned usually only takes threes when no one is around them. Which is to say they’re hardly stretching the defense, if at all. For example, even though Joel Embiid is having a career year from three, defenses rarely guard him beyond the arc. Fewer than 20 percent of Embiid’s threes are contested. That’s not an accident. It’s by design. A defense would rather have Embiid take an open three because it means he isn’t wrecking shop in the paint.

In other words, most Centers take wide open threes because defenses want them to take wide open threes. Or as we say in Soviet Russia, “In modern NBA, defense stretches you!”

Fascinating analysis, and it reinforces some of my previous beliefs regarding shooting big men in the league. And before KobesAchilles or someone comes jawing at me :lol, I'd absolutely love to have a bench shooting 5, this is more on the debate of "want" vs "need" and how posters here believe a 5-out offense to be the pinnacle to be achieved, even if the defense takes a massive hit to achieve so in Poeltl's absence.

[KobesAchilles]

Post-DDR if the spurs are relying on scoring output from Jakob Poeltl instead of an offense led by a more mature Dejounte, Derrick and Keldon with Lonnie and Luka serving as the bench and auxiliary scorers they have bigger problems than a center
Well then we have a muttha effing problem then bc Dejounte will be targeted as the main person to stop and will be who opposing teams defense focus on. Derrick hasn't shown the ability to be a consistent scorer once in his entire career. And KJ is still very young and has a lot more growth to develop before I start depending on him. I'm not even sure what to expect from Lonnie except I guess like a 10 point a game bench player which is a good career.

The point is though we are going to need scoring from Jak bc we do have a problem going forward

[KobesAchilles]

Also, I'm gonna leave this here (should it warrant its own post? Maybe...), since this thread is probably the one where we've most talked about stretch 5's and how the Spurs "NEED" one;

The Myth Of The Stretch 5 (https://thef5.substack.com/p/stretch-lie)





Fascinating analysis, and it reinforces some of my previous beliefs regarding shooting big men in the league. And before KobesAchilles (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=50221) or someone comes jawing at me :lol, I'd absolutely love to have a bench shooting 5, this is more on the debate of "want" vs "need" and how posters here believe a 5-out offense to be the pinnacle to be achieved, even if the defense takes a massive hit to achieve so in Poeltl's absence.
I'd rather have a stretch 4 tbh than a 5. I never really like my centers out in the 3 point line. Like Tim was a center later on and he was top of the key at times, but not over at the 3 point line. But Bonner was a stretch 4 and that really freed up the offense. I mean Boris Diaw is what this team is lacking but he ain't walking through those doors any time :cry

[PrimeMinister]

Well then we have a muttha effing problem then bc Dejounte will be targeted as the main person to stop and will be who opposing teams defense focus on. Derrick hasn't shown the ability to be a consistent scorer once in his entire career. And KJ is still very young and has a lot more growth to develop before I start depending on him. I'm not even sure what to expect from Lonnie except I guess like a 10 point a game bench player which is a good career.

The point is though we are going to need scoring from Jak bc we do have a problem going forward

15 points from Jakob next year vs the 9 hes averaged as a starter this year isn’t moving the needle if it’s as easy as “targeting DJ with no other scoring options”

Derrick hasn’t even started his post rookie contract extension. I’m not ready to rule him out as a viable scoring option and number 2 option. Keldon will be entering year 3 and is young but he’s a stud.

Is it so unrealistic to think Dejounte could be a 20/5/5 guy next year like derozan this year, Derrick takes the mantle of DJ’s output this year, and Keldon grows into a better third scoring option than he is this year?

You don’t replace Derozan by just saying “Ok Jakob you need to score 15 points a game now or we will lose” it’s like a child’s understanding of basketball.

you’re funny, I’ll give you that. Your takes are pretty bad though.

[PrimeMinister]

I'd rather have a stretch 4 tbh than a 5. I never really like my centers out in the 3 point line. Like Tim was a center later on and he was top of the key at times, but not over at the 3 point line. But Bonner was a stretch 4 and that really freed up the offense. I mean Boris Diaw is what this team is lacking but he ain't walking through those doors any time :cry

congratulations, you’ve made the case for Jakob Poeltl starting next to Luka Samanic next year

[J_Paco]

need a PF/C to compliment Jakob. Preferably one that can play along side him for bigger lineups and matchups and one that puts Jakob on the bench for smaller lineups. I assume our forwards will be Luka and Keldon.

I think Luka could be that guy and Eubanks would be the utility PF/C (more a center) if we can't acquire a "stretch 5" that can rim run & also defend. Finding a replacement for Rudy Gay would also be necessary for the bench, but that might be easier than the vaunted back up "stretch 5."


Lonnie scored 3.

That's mostly on Pop for limiting him, again, to only 8 minutes. Now, he could be still dealing with that re - injured left wrist, but there was no good reason (other than that) to limit him & Vassell to just 18 total minutes.

Leaning on Patty & Rudy - like I said Pop would - too much and not giving the young guys the necessary time & trust. *thumbs down emoji*

[KobesAchilles]

15 points from Jakob next year vs the 9 hes averaged as a starter this year isn’t moving the needle if it’s as easy as “targeting DJ with no other scoring options”

Derrick hasn’t even started his post rookie contract extension. I’m not ready to rule him out as a viable scoring option and number 2 option. Keldon will be entering year 3 and is young but he’s a stud.

Is it so unrealistic to think Dejounte could be a 20/5/5 guy next year like derozan this year, Derrick takes the mantle of DJ’s output this year, and Keldon grows into a better third scoring option than he is this year?

You don’t replace Derozan by just saying “Ok Jakob you need to score 15 points a game now or we will lose” it’s like a child’s understanding of basketball.

you’re funny, I’ll give you that. Your takes are pretty bad though.
I'm not expecting Jak to replace DDR. If we were just losing him, I wouldn't be so worried. We are losing Mills, Gay, AND DDR. That is a lot of points to make up. I am expecting Murray to make a jump and replace DDR. If he doesn't then we might be screwed as well. But my point is that right now, the error for margin for the youth is bigger than it will be next year.

For example, Lonnie had a shit game Monday and yet we only lost by 3 with a chance to tie it. Next year, without Gay, DDR, and Mills, if Lonnie gives us 3 points we are going to get blown out. It's not only a Jak thing. It's an all youth thing, but he is part of the equation and this is a Jak thread so I am focusing on him more here.

I'm worried about Derrick bc of injuries. If he misses games like he always does then guess what. That margin of error gets even smaller and we will need him to score. That's what my child tells me anyway and he's where I get my ball info from

[exstatic]

Well then we have a muttha effing problem then bc Dejounte will be targeted as the main person to stop and will be who opposing teams defense focus on. Derrick hasn't shown the ability to be a consistent scorer once in his entire career. And KJ is still very young and has a lot more growth to develop before I start depending on him. I'm not even sure what to expect from Lonnie except I guess like a 10 point a game bench player which is a good career.

The point is though we are going to need scoring from Jak bc we do have a problem going forward

That’s an opinion.

[KobesAchilles]

That’s an opinion.
No shit bro. It's a message board. All we give is opinions :lol

[KobesAchilles]

congratulations, you’ve made the case for Jakob Poeltl starting next to Luka Samanic next year
So we go from him not playing at all to him starting next year. Is this Pop? Are you not playing him bc you don't want him to be part of the DDR deal? I have so many questions! Why did you start Lyles over Luka for those two games?

Now if you are saying that we should start Luka, I'm all in on that. He SHOULD be playing and it's ridiculous that he isn't. But if you're saying Pop is going to start him next year... well...

[BackHome]

Totally agree with you only reason that Luka should not have gotten playing time is if we are trying to move both Lyles and Rudy. So if they are gone then I would understand but if they still here then I call Bull Shit. No way should Luka not be getting some burn he deserves it he showed that by his play in G League and also in the few games Pop played him in.

[RC_Drunkford]

Also, I'm gonna leave this here (should it warrant its own post? Maybe...), since this thread is probably the one where we've most talked about stretch 5's and how the Spurs "NEED" one;

The Myth Of The Stretch 5 (https://thef5.substack.com/p/stretch-lie)





Fascinating analysis, and it reinforces some of my previous beliefs regarding shooting big men in the league. And before KobesAchilles (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=50221) or someone comes jawing at me :lol, I'd absolutely love to have a bench shooting 5, this is more on the debate of "want" vs "need" and how posters here believe a 5-out offense to be the pinnacle to be achieved, even if the defense takes a massive hit to achieve so in Poeltl's absence.


makes sense if the other 4 players are shooters too, but if you have DeRozan, Keldon and Murray out there the 3-Point shooting has to come from somewhere

[Sugus]

makes sense if the other 4 players are shooters too, but if you have DeRozan, Keldon and Murray out there the 3-Point shooting has to come from somewhere

Dude, we keep having the exact same discussion. Yes, the 3pt shooting has to come from somewhere - where does that equal out to that place being the starting C? My hope is that DeRozan is off the team after this season, and it's looking like a quite likely scenario (even more so if rumors are to be believed); again, that leaves a big, glaring hole at the SF-PF starting position, perfectly able to be filled by a high-volume shooting wing or PF. It's exactly why I'm saying there's a difference between saying the Spurs could want or have use for a shooting C in their rotation, which I agree with, and saying the Spurs need a shooting C to be in their starting lineup, which I disagree with, especially as it renders Jakob a bench player and greatly diminishes his impact.

That article further adds on how even having a shooting C doesn't necessarily improve the spacing of a given unit, unless they're absolutely elite at it (I've said this before, these are the kinds of talents you have to look for in the top-2 of a draft... Not a roleplayer), and can have a negative effect if the center isn't good defensively. I also find fascinating the talk about how a center camping out on the high perimeter for a catch-and-shoot actually hinders the team, because the guards and wings can't access that spot and playmake from the top or sides of the 3pt line, limiting their options. So it's absolutely not as black-and-white as your points usually imply.

[RC_Drunkford]

I‘m talking about this season. Watch the last 2 games

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/tom_orsborn/status/1376011639246495749?s=19

Translate those skills into dunks, Poeltl.

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/tom_orsborn/status/1376022575751516160?s=19

https://twitter.com/tom_orsborn/status/1376018034951913477?s=19

Hmm are we going to see more 14+ pt games from Poeltl??

[The Truth #6]

Ma Touches 2.0???