Summer trades

[Mr. Body]

The roster isn't full. You can't count guys like Barlow and Champ as part of the 15 when they have basically ERFAs who don't have the leverage to not take another two-way. Champ might get a full deal, but I think Barlow is two-way or cut at this point. There should be 13 or 14 players one can reasonably expect the team to bring into camp next year barring trades. Moreover, none of those guys is going to stop the Spurs from adding legit starters to their roster. That doesn't make any sense.

Why the hell are you adding multiple year contracts or players who may not cut it? There's too much on the pile already and using assets to get some middling dude who's not cutting it on another bad team... how is this a good idea? None of this works. It's just a range of ideas that doesn't do anything but make the existing task of shaking out the roster and figuring out what we have a harder activity to manage.

[CGD]

Assuming Washington isn't interested in keeping him around long term, how do people feel about Tyus Jones? Has played well in a starter role, young enough, and probably wouldn't command a huge haul to acquire.

I think he’ll get paid, and knows this is his last chance to do so. I like him, but he won’t come
cheap. I also think the new WAS brass has long liked him and wouldn’t mind keeping him.

[Mr. Body]

It’s not though, and in any event you move on from the Sandros, KBDs, Champagnes, Barlows, and even Berchs and Basseys, if you need to create a roster spot.

Every single idea here is either a marginal player added to the scads of marginal players we already have. In fact, Suggs has proven himself to be even more marginal than our guys, for longer. Or they are very expensive guys like FVV. None of this makes sense.

Of course you can cut those players. They aren't guards that would compete with Suggs, so their cuts don't matter. We're still figuring out Jones/Wesley as it is. Where the hell would Suggs be getting playing time? Why would you do this?

[Chinook]

Why the hell are you adding multiple year contracts or players who may not cut it? There's too much on the pile already and using assets to get some middling dude who's not cutting it on another bad team... how is this a good idea? None of this works. It's just a range of ideas that doesn't do anything but make the existing task of shaking out the roster and figuring out what we have a harder activity to manage.

We aren't wondering if guys like Hunter, Simons, etc are going to be able to beat out Mamu, Champ or whomever the Spurs draft in the second round. They will. The Spurs aren't going to be able to make it trying to hold their roster spots for all of their first-rounders over the next two years. It would be extremely hard for them to get above the floor if they had like 10 guys on rookie contracts. Some of those picks, or the players that are taken with those picks, are going to be traded away or otherwise cut. That's just reality and why a number of us wanted them to consolidate those picks. Also note that if they trade one of those firsts and multiple seconds for any of these players, those are picks that won't be on the roster, easing the crunch in the future as well.

I think Wesley is still a guy PATFO likes, and I wouldn't be surprised if the Spurs have no desire for another PG project right now. But I also think the Spurs could decide that Wesley has to earn the status of future roster-spot holder and give him some real competition. Or they could decide that Jones isn't their PG of the future, or that Graham is better as trade bait. There are a number of things that can go into justifying why the Spurs are committing years to players now. They don't have to, but they're in a position to get out of their roster crunch by raising their standards for who should get a spot. Guys that played well on last year's squad may not make it. I've been warning about this for a couple of years now. It's only going to get worse from the perspective of the fans of those players, but the overall talent of the team should increase. The Spurs should see it though.

[CGD]

Every single idea here is either a marginal player added to the scads of marginal players we already have. In fact, Suggs has proven himself to be even more marginal than our guys, for longer. Or they are very expensive guys like FVV. None of this makes sense.

Of course you can cut those players. They aren't guards that would compete with Suggs, so their cuts don't matter. We're still figuring out Jones/Wesley as it is. Where the hell would Suggs be getting playing time? Why would you do this?

I mean he’s only been in the league two years so not sure how much “longer” he’s been “marginal.” The dude was being compared to Kidd just two drafts ago, so I’m betting on the talent and allowing for the possibility that the fit with the Magic and Cole Anthony sucked. He was playing off ball as a result, where he’s actually more comfortable as a PG.

The other upside of him is his deal. It’s basically two year to look at him, which is about the window before the Spurs will (or at least should) be seeking to ramp up its signing of FA talent. Someone like Hunter scares me because he’s 4 years at a much longer number— basically the profile of contract you DONT want in these first two years with Victor.

[Extra Stout]

I think the Spurs are going to trot Blake Wesley out there a lot to let him sink or swim. If he swims, then he’s a second star. If he sinks, then he’s a great tank commander for another high lottery pick in 2024.

[JPB]

Why the hell are you adding multiple year contracts or players who may not cut it? There's too much on the pile already and using assets to get some middling dude who's not cutting it on another bad team... how is this a good idea? None of this works. It's just a range of ideas that doesn't do anything but make the existing task of shaking out the roster and figuring out what we have a harder activity to manage.

None of the Barlow, Champagnie, and maybe Bassey and Wesley, will still be there in two years. They might not even pass the summer or the season anyway and they don't have their place in a competitive spurs team... No need to wait another szason to see that. If you can upgrade, upgrade now and as Chinook said, that would be crazy to let these guys preventing you to do so. you don't build around these guys, Wemby deserve better than that.

[JPB]

I think the Spurs are going to trot Blake Wesley out there a lot to let him sink or swim. If he swims, then he’s a second star. If he sinks, then he’s a great tank commander for another high lottery pick in 2024.

No offense but Wesley will never be a star, his ceiling is much lower than that. Back up PG would an achievment for him in this league. 3rd string probably his destiny. He litterally couldn't finish at the rim last year, like a lost dog in the paint even after one year in the G league... his flaws are way to big to be better than a role player. And I hope I'm wrong obviously.

[Mr. Body]

None of the Barlow, Champagnie, and maybe Bassey and Wesley, will still be there in two years. They might not even pass the summer or the season anyway and they don't have their place in a competitive spurs team... No need to wait another szason to see that. If you can upgrade, upgrade now and as Chinook said, that would be crazy to let these guys preventing you to do so. you don't build around these guys, Wemby deserve better than that.

Of course some of those players won't be here. That's immaterial. Getting someone like Suggs isn't "upgrading"; it's adding another middling piece who has already started declining in his second year. And who will start making close to $10 million a year if his contract is picked up.

This is entirely the point the FO is making about seeing what is on the roster. There's not an upgrade you're going to make that makes this process better. You're just adding cost, using assets to acquire, and jamming another piece in where the fit is uncertain.

But I'm getting that you guys just want to have fun speculating at this point and that's cool.

[Extra Stout]

No offense but Wesley will never be a star, his ceiling is much lower than that. Back up PG would an achievment for him in this league. 3rd string probably his destiny. He litterally couldn't finish at the rim last year, like a lost dog in the paint even after one year in the G league... his flaws are way to big to be better than a role player. And I hope I'm wrong obviously.
He was drafted as a home run swing given his off-the-charts athleticism and quickness, with hopes that the rest of his game would develop. Odds are, though, that the rest of his game does not develop, and so he “sinks” out of the NBA entirely. But I predict he’ll get his chance to prove the doubters wrong.

[Chinook]

Of course some of those players won't be here. That's immaterial. Getting someone like Suggs isn't "upgrading"; it's adding another middling piece who has already started declining in his second year. And who will start making close to $10 million a year if his contract is picked up.

This is entirely the point the FO is making about seeing what is on the roster. There's not an upgrade you're going to make that makes this process better. You're just adding cost, using assets to acquire, and jamming another piece in where the fit is uncertain.

But I'm getting that you guys just want to have fun speculating at this point and that's cool.

I mean, there has some to be assumption that the Spurs like the player they would be acquiring. No one has a 2K override switch to force them to make a deal. Like for Suggs, if the Spurs actually think he's got good potential, he's not "part of the mix". He's their new starter. Wesley is likely third string with a vague chance of getting the backup spot, and at least one of Graham or Jones isn't on the team. It wouldn't be every player with their assumed rotation spot, plus Suggs. Of course, the Spurs may not believe in Suggs any more than the Magic seem to. In the same way they didn't jump up to catch Whitmore or take a flier on any of the busts like Bamba, Wiseman or Smith, they're going to have their own opinions on players and only spend assets on guys they think add talent to the club.

My thing is that there are going to be players in free agency and obtainable with modest trade packages to other teams that PATFO do think would increase the talent level of their club. I want them to be aggressive in going for that, but I don't particularly care whom they'd target. I have my ideas, but ultimately I accept that the Spurs will do what they do and only put so much investment in my random wishes. While your point about the Spurs wanting to let the roster play together is well taken, the Spurs also admitted they were trying to add a higher-end talent using future draft assets. We know they are willing to bring in guys they think would play over the dregs of their roster. I just think they should take that desire and continue to look to add that kind of talent through the other means available to them. They're likely going into camp with 20 players.

(Jones), Graham, Wesley
Vassell, Branham, [Champagnie,] Rice (TW)
Johnson, McDermott, Cissoko (Langford)
Wemba, Sochan, (Mamu)
Collins, Bassey, Birch, [Barlow]

So even assuming all of the RFAs and TWRFAs come back -- which they won't. There are still two more camp spots. They're almost certainly going to bring in more players. They have anywhere from 2-8 camp spots and up to five spots on the main roster available. This is not a set team at all.

[Mr. Body]

Sure. I just don't see them picking up players who disturb their dozen of development guys. Their action with the 33/44 really showed how they're likely standing fast with their current players. They're not adding simplly to add, they're being very careful with their money and assets until they know what they want and need. I do think they'll absorb salary and possibly take on another veteran presence, like getting Patty back from Brooklyn on the last year of his deal.

[BackHome]

Yeah, I am all for getting better but for the most part want to see the guys we draft develop and see how they fit with Wemby. Also, want to see how Wemby plays out how good is he and how well he plays the entire season before I trade all my picks for high paid second and third tier players.

[TD 21]

I think the Spurs should shop the Charlotte first and like four seconds for something. Suggs is an option. Horford is an option. Hunter could be an option. Simons could be an option. They should try to do something to infuse their team with some talent, especially at PG and C.

With the Spurs supposedly liking Poole in the '19 draft and having some interest at the most recent one in mind . . .

Hawks receive: Graham, Raptors top 6 protected '24 1st via Spurs (+ 1-2 2nds?) . . . needed salary relief + draft capital
Trail Blazers receive: Hunter . . . needed size on wings with player who fits Lillard or Henderson-Sharpe timeline
Spurs receive: Simons . . . needed go-to perimeter scorer and versatile/volume 3-point shooter

I get that he's a combo guard who's more of an SG and a poor defender, but his ability to play off ball means there'd still be plenty of on ball reps for youth and good luck checking every box.

[BatManu20]

John Collins to the Jazz in a salary dump. So glad the Spurs never traded for this guy tbh.

1673386654373928960

[K...]

Rudy gay and a SRP? Lmao

[Robz4000]

Knew it was gonna end up this way but :rollin

[LeBowen]

Tbh, we're 100% guaranteed to have at least one top5 pick from Atlanta, they're a trainwreck.

Jazz is going to make Collins look servicable and get some useful assets before the deadline.

[BatManu20]

Yea Collins is vastly overpaid but playing alongside Markennan and Walker Kessler should help him tbh.

[BatManu20]

Tbh, we're 100% guaranteed to have at least one top5 pick from Atlanta, they're a trainwreck.

Jazz is going to make Collins look servicable and get some useful assets before the deadline.

Not so fast my friend.

1673386859022393355

[RC_Drunkford]

a 2nd round pick for 75 million, well done Danny Ainge :lol

People said the same about Markkanen and he had a resurgance with the Jazz. I'd say Collins will put up numbers there, but how when Lauri plays his position?

[RD2191]

I didn't even know Rudy Gay was still in the league. Wtf.

[InRareForm]

Hawks will be near lottery if Trae sprains his ankle.

Spurs light-year moves

[LeBowen]

Not so fast my friend.

Great, they're going to dig themselves even deeper.

I expect some ridiculous trades, like getting rid of Capela and using those assets + DJ for KAT.


a 2nd round pick for 75 million, well done Danny Ainge :lol

People said the same about Markkanen and he had a resurgance with the Jazz. I'd say Collins will put up numbers there, but how when Lauri plays his position?

Collins as 6th man. Markkanen, Kessler, Collins PF/C rotation. Any combination works.

[Mugen]

Markannen is a 3. Collins at the 4 and Kessler at the 5 w/ the rookie Hendricks coming off the bench.

I would have demanded a first to take on that Collins contract but I'm not sure if ATL has any left :lol

[Mr. Body]

Why would Ainge do this?

[Mitch Cumsteen]

Utah owes its FRP next year to OKC top 10 protected and they're trying to make the playoffs so it conveys. I don't really know how much Collins and his bad contract moves the needle though. Not sure this really changes anything for them in the western conference pecking order

[Davidicus]

How much cap space for ATL now? I don't think anyone would want to actively go there, but money talks

[Extra Stout]

How much cap space for ATL now? I don't think anyone would want to actively go there, but money talks
They have a $25.3 million trade exception.

[spurraider21]

How much cap space for ATL now? I don't think anyone would want to actively go there, but money talks
theyre still above the cap. but they have access to the full MLE now and a trade exception, if im not mistaken

[Leetonidas]

Getting traded for the corpse of Rudy Gay? Ouch. And you have to live and play in Utah? Double ouch

[spurraider21]

Getting traded for the corpse of Rudy Gay? Ouch. And you have to live and play in Utah? Double ouch
collins was born in utah

plus their froncourt looks nice tbh

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Getting traded for Rudy Gay....man I'm glad the Spurs didn't acquire Collins.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Getting traded for Rudy Gay....man I'm glad the Spurs didn't acquire Collins.

Remember when ST was outraged that we signed Zollins, instead of John Collins :lol

[LeBowen]

Remember when ST was outraged that we signed Zollins, instead of John Collins :lol

Apparently his shooting hand ring finger is permanently messed up, that's why his 3pt% dropped.
Google it, doesn't look pretty.

[Seventyniner]

Not so fast my friend.

1673386859022393355

This makes sense. They don't control their own draft in 2025-2027 so they will be in win-now mode until at least 2028.

What we have to hope for as Spurs fans is that their efforts fail spectacularly. Paying Trae Young $178M over the next 4 years certainly helps our cause.

[spurraider21]

This makes sense. They don't control their own draft in 2025-2027 so they will be in win-now mode until at least 2028.

What we have to hope for as Spurs fans is that their efforts fail spectacularly. Paying Trae Young $178M over the next 4 years certainly helps our cause.
also gives them a floor if he's healthy. i dont like him, but he's an offensive engine

[CGD]

Not so fast my friend.

1673386859022393355

Part of me buys the “he just needs a new situation” argument with this guy. I don’t dislike this for Utah.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

This makes sense. They don't control their own draft in 2025-2027 so they will be in win-now mode until at least 2028.

What we have to hope for as Spurs fans is that their efforts fail spectacularly. Paying Trae Young $178M over the next 4 years certainly helps our cause.

The Hawks have "spectacular fail" written all over them. Let's hope at least.

[Maddog]

Part of me buys the “he just needs a new situation” argument with this guy. I don’t dislike this for Utah.

I've watched him a fair bit. He's good not great.
He can help them, but is the contract worth it...

It's a close one

[playblair]

Not so fast my friend.

1673386859022393355

til landry fields is the hawks gm :wow........the spurs fleece of the hawks trade pics now makes sense.......fields was a spurs scount/front office member........

[SpurSpike]

Apparently his shooting hand ring finger is permanently messed up, that's why his 3pt% dropped.
Google it, doesn't look pretty.

Dang, you ain't joking; Collins finger is fucked up!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRz5VYsluM4

[toki9]

til landry fields is the hawks gm :wow........the spurs fleece of the hawks trade pics now makes sense.......fields was a spurs scount/front office member........

I believe Murray deal was under the previous GM, Schlenk—and it was rumored to have been driven by the owners’ son. But Landry Fields was in favor of doing the deal and he subsequently became the GM once Schlenk resigned/got fired.

[CGD]

^ Correct, and it’s sounds like Schlenk didn’t want to do it. But who knows with narratives these days

[TD 21]

The Hawks will still likely trade Capela and/or Hunter, but they won't be salary dumps.

I'd like the fit better for the Jazz if Collins is converted into a 6th man, but as a starter, he'll still be forced into more of a floor spacing than rim running role and Markkanen will continue to be forced to defend SF's.


^ Correct, and it’s sounds like Schlenk didn’t want to do it. But who knows with narratives these days

Yeah, Schlenk came from the Warriors, which means he's probably well connected to and protected by the majority of national media big wigs.

[Mr. Body]

Collins isn't a shitty player, but at that contract he's a shitty player. Don't get these last two moves by him -- Conley and two decent role-players for a single distant first round pick. And then taking on a pretty unmoveable contract for a declining player.

[slick'81]

Jazz building that front court to battle wemby

[Mr. Body]

Jazz building that front court to battle wemby

With... John Collins?

[slick'81]

With... John Collins?


and lauri and kessler apparently

[Mr. Body]

and lauri and kessler apparently

Is this a joke?

[JuneJive]

Hendricks/Lauri/Kessler is a very good frontcourt core.

Laugh all you want.

[Mr. Body]

Hendricks/Lauri/Kessler is a very good frontcourt core.

Laugh all you want.

Yes... prime Wemby stoppers. Lauri Markkanen and John Collins are... Wemby stoppers. That's why they're signed, to be Wemby stoppers.

[Atl Spur]

Collins will play better in Utah I suspect; t young is the problem

[BatManu20]

Would be surprising. Spurs should be all over this if so. Darius Garland for Toronto’s FRP next season + multiple 2RP’s. Who says no (besides the Cavs).

1674067440739708931

[exstatic]

Spurs should be all over this. Darius Garland for Toronto’s FRP next season + multiple 2RP’s. Who says no (besides the Cavs).

1674067440739708931

They will want our whole pick bag, and if it doesn't work out, we're screwed, with no assets left and that awful contract.

[Kevin]

Garland is a good player but overpaid. The Spurs are better off maxing Reaves for half the money Garland makes with no picks included.

[spursparker9]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOPE_MEYaVc

[BatManu20]

Yea I agree. They’d want too much in return for sure, and Garland’s definitely overpaid. He isn’t the greatest defender either, though he’s not terrible on that end. He’s a great 3-Point shooter on high volume though and is only 23 years old. Somewhat surprised they might be looking to move him already.

[exstatic]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOPE_MEYaVc

I just don't see it, at all.

[baseline bum]

also gives them a floor if he's healthy. i dont like him, but he's an offensive engine

Especially for the opposing team's guards

[baseline bum]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOPE_MEYaVc

Two years too old. If Wemby develops as we expect and Dame was 32 two summers from now I'd be all over trading for him.

[Degoat]

Garland would be freaking awesome, but no way the spurs would trade right now imo

[BatManu20]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOPE_MEYaVc

Hard pass. Would cost to much to get him and he’d prob bounce in 2025 anyways. Even he didn’t, he’ll be 35 then. Doesn’t make sense for us at his age. Much rather continue build this thing organically tbh.

[BacktoBasics]

Garland is a good player but overpaid. The Spurs are better off maxing Reaves for half the money Garland makes with no picks included.

Maxing Reaves is a horrible idea. He had one good postseason run. A long way from being a proven player let alone a scale max contract.

[baseline bum]

Hard pass. Would cost to much to get him and he’d prob bounce in 2025 anyways. Even he didn’t, he’ll be 35 then. Doesn’t make sense for us at his age. Much rather continue build this thing organically tbh.

Yeah not at all interested in doing what Phoenix did with Ayton and rushing Victor to trying to compete right now. At least this year needs to be about developing Victor, Jeremy, and Devin so that hopefully they can be a contending core in 2-3 years. Ideally I'd like to spend a couple of years just developing and not worrying too much when the young guys make mistakes but with the first Atlanta pick being in 2025 might need to move the plan up a year since next summer might be the best time for the Spurs to be able to land a star with their draft capital.

[rjv]

Garland is a good player but overpaid. The Spurs are better off maxing Reaves for half the money Garland makes with no picks included.

lakers insist that they will match any offer for Reaves, even if it's the max.

[Kevin]

lakers insist that they will match any offer for Reaves, even if it's the max.

Then max him and make the Lakers pay. It's seems like the Spurs wont be very active in free agency anyway so locking up that money waiting for the Lakers to match isn't the end of the world.

[RC_Drunkford]

Spurs should get on the Garland thing. One of the few stars that actually makes sense on our team. Cavs would want players back though. His last year is on 44 million. Lillard is on 60, huge difference. Like I said we can afford to overpay until 2027 and with the cap increasing by 10% his deal won‘t look that bad in the long run either. Spurs should definitely call

[duncan2150]

Then max him and make the Lakers pay. It's seems like the Spurs wont be very active in free agency anyway so locking up that money waiting for the Lakers to match isn't the end of the world.

no, no, no lol if you max him he's yours. Imo Reaves is a good player but not worth more than 15-18 millions max.

[duncan2150]

Spurs should get on the Garland thing. One of the few stars that actually makes sense on our team. Cavs would want players back though. His last year is on 44 million. Lillard is on 60, huge difference. Like I said we can afford to overpay until 2027 and with the cap increasing by 10% his deal won‘t look that bad in the long run either. Spurs should definitely call

https://twitter.com/ChrisFedor/status/1674074184706580482

[Kevin]

no, no, no lol if you max him he's yours. Imo Reaves is a good player but not worth more than 15-18 millions max.

Win Share Per 48

Reaves: 142
Dev: 51
Keldon: 30

VORP.
Reaves: 1.2
Dev: .7
Keldon: .1

ORtg:
Reaves: 129
Dev: 110
Keldon: 108

DRtg
Reaves: 117
Dev: 120
Keldon: 122

Spurs are paying Keldon 20 million this season btw.

[Seventyniner]

I'd take Garland all day. But as the above post shows, it makes no sense for Cleveland to move him.

[Extra Stout]

Win Share Per 48

Reaves: 142
Dev: 51
Keldon: 30

VORP.
Reaves: 1.2
Dev: .7
Keldon: .1

ORtg:
Reaves: 129
Dev: 110
Keldon: 108

DRtg
Reaves: 117
Dev: 120
Keldon: 122

Spurs are paying Keldon 20 million this season btw.
Forum posters are still struggling to contextualize what the going rate is for role players. While I think the ugly advanced stats for the Spurs need to be taken into context given the blatant tanking that was going on, your point that Reaves wasn’t just on a playoff hot streak holds true.

[duncan2150]

Win Share Per 48

Reaves: 142
Dev: 51
Keldon: 30

VORP.
Reaves: 1.2
Dev: .7
Keldon: .1

ORtg:
Reaves: 129
Dev: 110
Keldon: 108

DRtg
Reaves: 117
Dev: 120
Keldon: 122

Spurs are paying Keldon 20 million this season btw.

I'm not saying you're wrong but i'm not totally sold on the win share ( and all the stats you're mentionned) and i'll not take another contract to justify a contract for a player.

More than that, Reaves had a really good season but i may be wrong as i don't see a lot of possible improvement in his game. Like he reachs something near his ceilling.

About the stats, the context could matter, the team you play with ...

[baseline bum]

Garland is a good player but overpaid. The Spurs are better off maxing Reaves for half the money Garland makes with no picks included.

Grossly overpaying middling players is suicide in this new era of the second apron. Austin Reaves is this year's Jordan Poole and maxing him would make him slightly more expensive than Garland. A max contract for Reaves would be 4 years, $143 million. No thanks.

[baseline bum]

Then max him and make the Lakers pay. It's seems like the Spurs wont be very active in free agency anyway so locking up that money waiting for the Lakers to match isn't the end of the world.

They're lying. Of course the Lakers wouldn't match a stupid offer like that.

[Extra Stout]

Maxing Austin Reaves would not be wise. The point comparing his market rate to what Keldon Johnson makes is a good one, though.

[rjv]

that would be the danger in offering a max to Reaves and calling the Lakers bluff. it'd be great, of course, if Reaves received a mx offer and forced the Lakers hand but I don't want the spurs to be the team that calls their bluff.

[BatManu20]

Tempt? He’d sprint to HOU for that.

1674076794809376770

[John B]

https://twitter.com/ChrisFedor/status/1674074184706580482

I like Darius Garland and should fit Spurs age group. I doubt the Cavs would give him up.

[LeBowen]

I like Darius Garland and should fit Spurs age group. I doubt the Cavs would give him up.

Give it time.
Another season of him and Mitchell being abused in the playoffs and eliminated in the first round will change their GM's mind.
Although I could see Mitchell getting traded first.

[John B]

that would be the danger in offering a max to Reaves and calling the Lakers bluff. it'd be great, of course, if Reaves received a mx offer and forced the Lakers hand but I don't want the spurs to be the team that calls their bluff.

Reeves is overrated. The guy plays with LeBron and Davis and the reason why he's so open. You take him away from that and he's at best a 4th option. And we want to Max that guy? Geez. I'd rather give the minutes to Malaki on a rookie contract.

[exstatic]

Reeves is overrated. The guy plays with LeBron and Davis and the reason why he's so open. You take him away from that and he's at best a 4th option. And we want to Max that guy? Geez. I'd rather give the minutes to Malaki on a rookie contract.

Yup. It's good when your role players show out, but don't confuse them with being anything other than role players.

[spurraider21]

Especially for the opposing team's guards
most nights he's going to produce more than he gives up

he's a net positive player. i just dont think he's enough of a net positive to justify his salary

[BatManu20]

Being stuck paying Reaves Max salary for the next 4-5 years would be a disaster. Lakers wouldn’t match that. No way in hell I’m taking that chance. Like what :lol

[rjv]

and yet, some team out there may very well offer reaves the max (because it happens every year-a player gets way overpaid). it would be great if the lakers didn't learn anything from the westbrook fiasco and handicapped themselves with yet another bad contract.

[Chinook]

Wouldn't Reeves also be the fourth option on the Spurs?

Wemba
Vassell
Johnson
Reaves
Sochan/Collins

When people say "max", it can create the impression than he's getting like $40 Million or something. He's getting $25 Million a year, which is about $18 percent of the cap. Because it's a flat deal, that percentage is only going to go down. To put that into perspective, that's basically what STers are hoping Vassell takes, and it's not hard to argue Reaves is better than Devin. Of course, the Spurs don't have to choose between the two of them. But if you buy the idea that Reaves might be this era's version of Green/Covington, it's not the money goes to waste as the team tries to build around Wemby. The odds that they were going to get their superstar through cap space weren't the best anyway.

Even if Reaves is guarded more heavily and thus doesn't come out of the gate with the same impact as he did with the Lakers, that extra attention means less on Vassell and Johnson, letting them get back to an efficient level of play. We're talking about replacing Tre Jones here. The upgrade in terms of spacing for the team would be massive, and there's not much they'd lose much in other facets. I'm not the hugest fan of Reaves, but money (especially in terms of salary-space allocation) isn't the main question mark. It's separating the Lakers hype from the actual player. You don't want another THT, but you should be fine he's as described here.

[spurraider21]

in 2015, Danny Green signed a 4 year $45 million deal with the spurs. at that time, the cap was 70mil, so that reflected about 16% of the cap. the max deal for reaves would have him taking about 18% of the cap

on a team that had as many good creators a the 2015 spurs (parker, manu, diaw, ascending kawhi, kyle anderson) and good post players in duncan/aldridge... green's skill set was what was needed. reaves on this current spurs team projects to be a hell of a fit

i dont think you necessarily have to give him the full max to land him. not sure the lakers really match anything north of 4/80 or 4/85. obviously cant dictate where the guy wants to live, but the spurs would also give him a good opportunity to shine from a basketball perspective, allowing him to even get some run at the point the same way we tried with branham

[John B]

Malaki vs Reaves. Why would Spurs pay 25 yrs old Reaves 25mil, when they get the same production from Malaki on a rookie contract? I know Malaki's defense is not stellar, but I would argue that Malaki is 5 years younger and only on his 2nd year. He still has a lot to show before I write him off for a 25 yrs old who is not going to move the needle.

Malaki (top) vs Austin (bottom)




Games
MPG
FGM-FGA
FG%
3PM-3PA
3P%
FTM-FTA
FT%
RPG
APG
STLPG
BLKPG
PFPG
TOPG
PPG



66
23.5
4.1 - 9.3
0.44
1.2 - 3.9
0.302
0.9 - 1.1
0.829
2.7
1.9
0.5
0.1
1.7
1.2
10.2



64
28.8
4 - 7.7
0.529
1.3 - 3.4
0.398
3.6 - 4.1
0.864
3
3.4
0.5
0.3
1.7
1.5
13

[Extra Stout]

I think discussions about Reaves are interesting, but hypothetical. I don’t really expect the Spurs to do anything to shore up the point guard position this summer because I don’t think they care all that much about how many games they win in 2023-24. As long as they have somebody functional who isn’t so ineffective at basic point guard tasks that they’re going to frustrate Wembanyama, I think they’ll roll with it.

[JPB]

and yet, some team out there may very well offer reaves the max (because it happens every year-a player gets way overpaid). it would be great if the lakers didn't learn anything from the westbrook fiasco and handicapped themselves with yet another bad contract.

Fred VanVleet approves this message.

The Rockets too.

[Mr. Body]

I think discussions about Reaves are interesting, but hypothetical. I don’t really expect the Spurs to do anything to shore up the point guard position this summer because I don’t think they care all that much about how many games they win in 2023-24. As long as they have somebody functional who isn’t so ineffective at basic point guard tasks that they’re going to frustrate Wembanyama, I think they’ll roll with it.

I do think they care about wins, but not to the detriment of opportunities not yet seen. I agree that they won't spend money or assets for only marginal or dubious improvement. Reaves is too questionable and doesn't move beyond on a marginal improvement at the position compared to the cost. LAL has repeatedly said they're resigning him, so the point is moot.

[Extra Stout]

I expect the Spurs to be drafting somewhere between 7-10 in 2024, and to pick BPA. If that’s a PG, then there you go. If that’s a wing, then they’ll shore up PG some other way that summer.

[SpursFan86]

Wouldn't Reeves also be the fourth option on the Spurs?

Wemba
Vassell
Johnson
Reaves
Sochan/Collins

When people say "max", it can create the impression than he's getting like $40 Million or something. He's getting $25 Million a year, which is about $18 percent of the cap. Because it's a flat deal, that percentage is only going to go down. To put that into perspective, that's basically what STers are hoping Vassell takes, and it's not hard to argue Reaves is better than Devin. Of course, the Spurs don't have to choose between the two of them. But if you buy the idea that Reaves might be this era's version of Green/Covington, it's not the money goes to waste as the team tries to build around Wemby. The odds that they were going to get their superstar through cap space weren't the best anyway.

Even if Reaves is guarded more heavily and thus doesn't come out of the gate with the same impact as he did with the Lakers, that extra attention means less on Vassell and Johnson, letting them get back to an efficient level of play. We're talking about replacing Tre Jones here. The upgrade in terms of spacing for the team would be massive, and there's not much they'd lose much in other facets. I'm not the hugest fan of Reaves, but money (especially in terms of salary-space allocation) isn't the main question mark. It's separating the Lakers hype from the actual player. You don't want another THT, but you should be fine he's as described here.

Reaves > Vassell is a wild take tbh :lol Not sure if you’re higher on Reaves than I am or lower on Vassell, or both.

Regardless, I do agree that he’s an ideal fit with the current squad and something like $20MM a year wouldn’t be a bad deal. Wouldn’t be thrilled with it or anything, but it’s fair.

[Chinook]

Malaki vs Reaves. Why would Spurs pay 25 yrs old Reaves 25mil, when they get the same production from Malaki on a rookie contract? I know Malaki's defense is not stellar, but I would argue that Malaki is 5 years younger and only on his 2nd year. He still has a lot to show before I write him off for a 25 yrs old who is not going to move the needle.

Malaki (top) vs Austin (bottom)




Games
MPG
FGM-FGA
FG%
3PM-3PA
3P%
FTM-FTA
FT%
RPG
APG
STLPG
BLKPG
PFPG
TOPG
PPG



66
23.5
4.1 - 9.3
0.44
1.2 - 3.9
0.302
0.9 - 1.1
0.829
2.7
1.9
0.5
0.1
1.7
1.2
10.2



64
28.8
4 - 7.7
0.529
1.3 - 3.4
0.398
3.6 - 4.1
0.864
3
3.4
0.5
0.3
1.7
1.5
13




Even those stats show Reaves as a comfortably better player, but when you actually look at advanced stats, it's not even close. Branham was horrible last year. Absolutely abysmal. Reaves was elite. Like if you look up RAPTOR for young two-guards last year, Austin is at the top and Malaki is at 37 of 37. According to 82games, Reaves graded as the fourth-best Laker last year while Branham was the worst player in the Spurs rotation. Even in BBRef, Reaves grades out so much better than Branham that it's not even worth comment.

As I've said, Reaves reminds me a lot of Danny Green in terms of the arguments people use against him. Danny was arguably a top 5-8 SG in his prime when you factor everything in, but people used to find things to pick at him to put anyone they could think of over him. It's okay to not be the youngest or have a bunch of upside left. Branham would have to grow an absurd amount very quickly to out-value Reaves. Vassell still has to grow a lot too, but at least in his case I think they'd start together just fine. Branham would still get his chances if the Spurs did sign Reaves. They could play together as well, but if they were to give Reaves a four-year deal and Vassell and extension, it would be hard to see Malaki staying long term.

The Spurs could definitely use a guy who can raise the team's floor for where they expect their young talent to be. The Spurs should be patient with their youth, but they shouldn't feel beholden to their development. They have cap, and they have plenty of trade assets. It's okay to use them.

[spurraider21]

not to mention Reaves got better as the season went along. assist numbers really took off as they trusted him more (look at the usage rates)

https://i.gyazo.com/9971ab898a7dd261af2234a678b57370.png

and then that trend continued into the playoffs as well

https://i.gyazo.com/6f76355466b09b5d6f10cdf6cc5c9850.png

[Chinook]

Reaves > Vassell is a wild take tbh :lol Not sure if you’re higher on Reaves than I am or lower on Vassell, or both.

I actually like Devin and would project them starting next to each other rather than competing, but Reaves definitely has the better resume and impact stats, whereas I think Vassell has flashed more and has shown to be a better volume scorer. But as I said, it's not hard to see how someone could think Reaves is better. It just depends on what you need. An elite role-player versus an inefficient but talented player that is still caught between project and star. Giving Devin $25 Million a year is more of a gamble in my mind than giving it to Reaves, assuming you don't think being in LA is boosting his perceived value.

[spurraider21]

can someone give me some recent examples of the supposed LAL value boost?

ie a player who was on the lakers, put up good numbers, was overvalued and then went elsewhere and suddenly sucked?

[Mr. Body]

Even those stats show Reaves as a comfortably better player, but when you actually look at advanced stats, it's not even close. Branham was horrible last year. Absolutely abysmal. Reaves was elite. Like if you look up RAPTOR for young two-guards last year, Austin is at the top and Malaki is at 37 of 37. According to 82games, Reaves graded as the fourth-best Laker last year while Branham was the worst player in the Spurs rotation. Even in BBRef, Reaves grades out so much better than Branham that it's not even worth comment.

As I've said, Reaves reminds me a lot of Danny Green in terms of the arguments people use against him. Danny was arguably a top 5-8 SG in his prime when you factor everything in, but people used to find things to pick at him to put anyone they could think of over him. It's okay to not be the youngest or have a bunch of upside left. Branham would have to grow an absurd amount very quickly to out-value Reaves. Vassell still has to grow a lot too, but at least in his case I think they'd start together just fine. Branham would still get his chances if the Spurs did sign Reaves. They could play together as well, but if they were to give Reaves a four-year deal and Vassell and extension, it would be hard to see Malaki staying long term.

The Spurs could definitely use a guy who can raise the team's floor for where they expect their young talent to be. The Spurs should be patient with their youth, but they shouldn't feel beholden to their development. They have cap, and they have plenty of trade assets. It's okay to use them.

Reaves is not a "young two-guard." He's 25. He'll shortly be entering his prime and is certainly not old, but Branham is five years younger. He's making $3.2 million vs. the $25 million Reaves may be making soon.

Comparing the two doesn't really make sense, anyway. They're not in competition with each other.

[spurraider21]

Reaves is not a "young two-guard." He's 25. He'll shortly be entering his prime and is certainly not old, but Branham is five years younger. He's making $3.2 million vs. the $25 million Reaves may be making soon.

Comparing the two doesn't really make sense, anyway. They're not in competition with each other.
25 is definitely young. if you are pre-prime, im considering you young. if you are going to sign a multi-year contract and not expecting to decline by the end of it, i consider you young

there are obviously different magnitudes of young

and if the spurs did go out and acquire reaves, he would be competing with Branham to a large degree (though they can share the floor together)

[Mr. Body]

25 is definitely young. if you are pre-prime, im considering you young. if you are going to sign a multi-year contract and not expecting to decline by the end of it, i consider you young

there are obviously different magnitudes of young

and if the spurs did go out and acquire reaves, he would be competing with Branham to a large degree (though they can share the floor together)

People here are claiming Reaves is going to start as PG. That's not really directly competing with Branham.

Young in terms of what young means in the current NBA. Hell, Jackson-Davis was drafted as a 23 year old and he might as well be Methuselah. Talking about advanced stats coming from a rookie doesn't make sense anyway.

[Extra Stout]

RAPTOR scores out Reaves as an All-Star caliber player basically. I think that’s an outlier.

[Chinook]

Reaves is not a "young two-guard." He's 25. He'll shortly be entering his prime and is certainly not old, but Branham is five years younger. He's making $3.2 million vs. the $25 million Reaves may be making soon.

He is a young two-guard in how Five Thirty Eight defines it (years 1 to 4). He's only been in the league a year longer than Branham. He's more than five years better than Branham on a normal development curve, though. Austin was incredible last year. I don't think folks appreciate that. It's unlikely Malaki ever becomes that good, though of course we hope that. Branham has to show he can even be a not-horrible player in terms of net impact, let alone key role-player. There are reasons to hope, but hope and confident projection are entirely different things.


Comparing the two doesn't really make sense, anyway. They're not in competition with each other.

I don't disagree with this really, but I wasn't the one who thought it made sense to compare them.

[spurraider21]

People here are claiming Reaves is going to start as PG. That's not really directly competing with Branham.

Young in terms of what young means in the current NBA. Hell, Jackson-Davis was drafted as a 23 year old and he might as well be Methuselah. Talking about advanced stats coming from a rookie doesn't make sense anyway.
branham played a majority of his minutes last year at PG, including a number of starts

[Chinook]

RAPTOR scores out Reaves as an All-Star caliber player basically. I think that’s an outlier.

It's not actually, at least in terms of thinking Reaves was crazy good last year. He shouldn't be confused with being an All-Star or any real star at all. But he can certainly have an impact around stars, and it turns out the Spurs have a star prospect in need of guys who can have an elite impact when put around him.

[Bruno]

Among all the players that are said to be available and are realistic targets, Anfernee Simons is my pick. An offer like expiring/cap space and two first round picks would be fine with me.

If the rumor about Spurs inquiring about Jordan Poole was right, I ca definitively see them being interested in Simons.

[CGD]

No way in hell Cavs move Garland, but I’d be all over that if so.

[BacktoBasics]

He is a young two-guard in how Five Thirty Eight defines it (years 1 to 4). He's only been in the league a year longer than Branham. He's more than five years better than Branham on a normal development curve, though. Austin was incredible last year. I don't think folks appreciate that. It's unlikely Malaki ever becomes that good, though of course we hope that. Branham has to show he can even be a not-horrible player in terms of net impact, let alone key role-player. There are reasons to hope, but hope and confident projection are entirely different things.



I don't disagree with this really, but I wasn't the one who thought it made sense to compare them.

He looked good and had a nice playoff run. But he’s no where near the contract people are suggesting he’ll get.

[Kevin]

Malaki vs Reaves. Why would Spurs pay 25 yrs old Reaves 25mil, when they get the same production from Malaki on a rookie contract? I know Malaki's defense is not stellar, but I would argue that Malaki is 5 years younger and only on his 2nd year. He still has a lot to show before I write him off for a 25 yrs old who is not going to move the needle.

Malaki (top) vs Austin (bottom)






Games
MPG
FGM-FGA
FG%
3PM-3PA
3P%
FTM-FTA
FT%
RPG
APG
STLPG
BLKPG
PFPG
TOPG
PPG



66
23.5
4.1 - 9.3
0.44
1.2 - 3.9
0.302
0.9 - 1.1
0.829
2.7
1.9
0.5
0.1
1.7
1.2
10.2



64
28.8
4 - 7.7
0.529
1.3 - 3.4
0.398
3.6 - 4.1
0.864
3
3.4
0.5
0.3
1.7
1.5
13




You should really look at advanced stats before making direct comparisons. Mal had negative advanced stats. His VORP was -1.3 with a -5.3 BPM.

Also Reaves is a RFA like Tre Jones. Reaves max contract is four years 99 million. Spurs should do it even though the Lakers probably match. Make LA pay if noting else.

[baseline bum]

When people say "max", it can create the impression than he's getting like $40 Million or something. He's getting $25 Million a year, which is about $18 percent of the cap.

??? Maxing means a max salary, which is 25% of the cap for someone with his level of experience. Or 4 years, $143 million with the max base year and max 4.5% raises. What else would max mean?

[DesignatedT]

Reaves was playing next to Lebron and AD. Branham and Vassell were playing next to Bates-Diop and Mamu :lol

[Mitch Cumsteen]

not to mention Reaves got better as the season went along. assist numbers really took off as they trusted him more (look at the usage rates)

https://i.gyazo.com/9971ab898a7dd261af2234a678b57370.png

and then that trend continued into the playoffs as well

https://i.gyazo.com/6f76355466b09b5d6f10cdf6cc5c9850.png

As soon as they unloaded Westbrook and put the ball in Reaves hands instead, not only did his personal numbers take off but the Lakers went from the lottery to the playoffs. And mind you, most of those games were when Lebron was hurt so it's not like he was just getting free looks and playing off a star.

I'm a big fan of Reaves. He can play on ball, off ball, can run screen roll, is a knock down three point shooter, is an underrated playmaker/passer who doesn't turn it over and stepped it up even more when the lights got brightest. He's also plays decent defense. What's not to like other than the small sample size?

I would love for him to be on the Spurs even at a knee jerk $25 million/yr for 4, but the Lakers are going to match anything thrown his way. You might as well make them pony up and put a dent in their cap. Don't let them sign him on the cheap. That would be the worst outcome.

[Vince Carter's ankle]

Even those stats show Reaves as a comfortably better player, but when you actually look at advanced stats, it's not even close. Branham was horrible last year. Absolutely abysmal. Reaves was elite. Like if you look up RAPTOR for young two-guards last year, Austin is at the top and Malaki is at 37 of 37. According to 82games, Reaves graded as the fourth-best Laker last year while Branham was the worst player in the Spurs rotation. Even in BBRef, Reaves grades out so much better than Branham that it's not even worth comment.

As I've said, Reaves reminds me a lot of Danny Green in terms of the arguments people use against him. Danny was arguably a top 5-8 SG in his prime when you factor everything in, but people used to find things to pick at him to put anyone they could think of over him. It's okay to not be the youngest or have a bunch of upside left. Branham would have to grow an absurd amount very quickly to out-value Reaves. Vassell still has to grow a lot too, but at least in his case I think they'd start together just fine. Branham would still get his chances if the Spurs did sign Reaves. They could play together as well, but if they were to give Reaves a four-year deal and Vassell and extension, it would be hard to see Malaki staying long term.

The Spurs could definitely use a guy who can raise the team's floor for where they expect their young talent to be. The Spurs should be patient with their youth, but they shouldn't feel beholden to their development. They have cap, and they have plenty of trade assets. It's okay to use them.
you need to dig less into the numbers and actually watch the games if you want to assess the prospects of the players. 🤓
13/14 Tim Hardaway Jr. 33 of 35
14/15 Andrew Wiggins 30 of 36
14/15 Zach LaVine 26 of 26 (PG)
15/16 D'Angelo Russell 31 of 34
15/16 Devin Booker 32 of 34
16/17 Bojan Bogdanović 46 of 46
16/17 Brandon Ingram 34 of 34 (SF)
17/18 De'Aaron Fox 27 of 29 (PG)
18/19 Malik Monk 50 of 52
19/20 RJ Barrett 45 of 47
19/20 Jordan Poole 46 of 47
19/20 Anfernee Simons 47 of 47
19/20 Darius Garland 30 of 30 (PG)

[baseline bum]

Reaves only shot the three 1% better than Vassell while having two HOFers to draw attention from him while Devin had? Keldon Johnson? to occupy other team's defenses. Don't see any need to pay another shooting guard when Devin is probably better and definitely cheaper in that role with more potential to grow. Someone else can overpay Reaves, no thanks. Would much rather have a point guard and a center.

[John B]

You should really look at advanced stats before making direct comparisons. Mal had negative advanced stats. His VORP was -1.3 with a -5.3 BPM.

Also Reaves is a RFA like Tre Jones. Reaves max contract is four years 99 million. Spurs should do it even though the Lakers probably match. Make LA pay if noting else.

If Lakers didn't call Spurs bluff, then Spurs will be stuck with an overrated 25 yrs old role player on Max for 4 years. Worst it derailed Malaki and Blake development as PG taking their minutes. If we're talking about Darius Garland, heck send Malaki/Blake packing. But we're talking Austin Reaves?? :lol

[Kevin]

As soon as they unloaded Westbrook and put the ball in Reaves hands instead, not only did his personal numbers take off but the Lakers went from the lottery to the playoffs. And mind you, most of those games were when Lebron was hurt so it's not like he was just getting free looks and playing off a star.

I'm a big fan of Reaves. He can play on ball, off ball, can run screen roll, is a knock down three point shooter, is an underrated playmaker/passer who doesn't turn it over and stepped it up even more when the lights got brightest. He's also plays decent defense. What's not to like other than the small sample size?

I would love for him to be on the Spurs even at a knee jerk $25 million/yr for 4, but the Lakers are going to match anything thrown his way. You might as well make them pony up and put a dent in their cap. Don't let them sign him on the cheap. That would be the worst outcome.


Yup Lakers match but Spurs should do it anyway and make them pay. If Keldon at 20 million a year is considered team friendly then Reaves at 25 is an easy call.

[spurraider21]

??? Maxing means a max salary, which is 25% of the cap for someone with his level of experience. Or 4 years, $143 million with the max base year and max 4.5% raises. What else would max mean?
the max for reaves is something like 4/99 or therabouts. arenas provision prevents you from giving 25% of the cap for each of the 4 years. its why a max deal for him of 4/100 would have that poison pill structure of 11/12/37/38 or whatever (though for the team making the offer like the spurs, they could choose to play it out as something more resembling 25/25/25/25)

[spurraider21]

Reaves only shot the three 1% better than Vassell while having two HOFers to draw attention from him while Devin had? Keldon Johnson? to occupy other team's defenses. Don't see any need to pay another shooting guard when Devin is probably better and definitely cheaper in that role with more potential to grow. Someone else can overpay Reaves, no thanks. Would much rather have a point guard and a center.
Reaves still hit over 38% of his 3's and 52% of his FG's while averaging 4.5 assists to 1.7 turnovers in games where LeBron didnt play. thats a 24 game sample size too, over a quarter of the regular season

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/austin-reaves-stats-without-lebron-james-this-season

mind you that the lakers were one of the worst 3 point shooting teams in the league so they werent exactly playing with spacing. reaves WAS the spacing

i think Reaves could take minutes at the point. i also think Vassell could easily just slide into the 3. dont think he's confined to just be a 2-guard. his propensity for the midrange iso game, improving playmaking have some shades of nephew, who was primarily a 3

[Chinook]

??? Maxing means a max salary, which is 25% of the cap for someone with his level of experience. Or 4 years, $143 million with the max base year and max 4.5% raises. What else would max mean?

There are so many maxes that I can't go into them all. As SR21 pointed out, the difference between what the Spurs can offer Reaves on a four-year deal, what the Spurs could offere Jones on a five-year deal and what another team could offer Jones on a four-year deal are all different. Reaves' deal is way less than a regular max for a player with his tenure, but it's the absolute most he can sign for, which is why people are using that term here. It takes it from paying him like a young star to paying him like a key role-player. PATFO is trying to figure out who of the players on the team can be key role-players round Wemba. Or they can just sign a guy who's already been an elite role-player to a future-proof contract instead.

Other notes on this contract:

The Lakers can't actually offer Reaves this deal. They can only give it to him via matching. So don't take Austin talking to other teams as a sign LAL is going to let him go.

The Spurs can offer Reaves as soon as the moratorium starts, though the 24-hour clock for the Lakers to match doesn't kick in until then. I'd recommend that the Spurs not trying to play around with LA if they have Reaves as their main target. Offer him, let them match and move on.

The Lakers and Spurs cannot agree to a sign-and-trade, since the Lakers are unable to sign Reaves to the contract SA can offer. This means there's no way to pay LAL off to avoid them matching.

[baseline bum]

the max for reaves is something like 4/99 or therabouts. arenas provision prevents you from giving 25% of the cap for each of the 4 years. its why a max deal for him of 4/100 would have that poison pill structure of 11/12/37/38 or whatever (though for the team making the offer like the spurs, they could choose to play it out as something more resembling 25/25/25/25)

I wasn't taking max Lakers could offer as max salary when dude earlier in the thread said max him out. Though $25M a year would still be a bitter pill to swallow for Reaves; would be a little better than the Jordan Poole deal but I'm not sold on Reaves at all from one season of good production while having two HOFers getting him wide open shots. Whoever they sign they should frontload the shit out of the deal in Year 1. Doubt the CBA would let you do 43, 18, 19, 19 but would definitely weigh that first year down as much as possible if they wanted to give someone a 4 year, $99 million deal.

[spurraider21]

I wasn't taking max Lakers could offer as max salary when dude earlier in the thread said max him out. Though $25M a year would still be a bitter pill to swallow for Reaves; would be a little better than the Jordan Poole deal but I'm not sold on Reaves at all from one season of good production while having two HOFers getting him wide open shots. Whoever they sign they should frontload the shit out of the deal in Year 1. Doubt the CBA would let you do 43, 18, 19, 19 but would definitely weigh that first year down as much as possible if they wanted to give someone a 4 year, $99 million deal.


Reaves still hit over 38% of his 3's and 52% of his FG's while averaging 4.5 assists to 1.7 turnovers in games where LeBron didnt play. thats a 24 game sample size too, over a quarter of the regular season

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/austin-reaves-stats-without-lebron-james-this-season

mind you that the lakers were one of the worst 3 point shooting teams in the league so they werent exactly playing with spacing. reaves WAS the spacing

1623895073262866432

:lol

[baseline bum]

Reaves still hit over 38% of his 3's and 52% of his FG's while averaging 4.5 assists to 1.7 turnovers in games where LeBron didnt play. thats a 24 game sample size too, over a quarter of the regular season

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/austin-reaves-stats-without-lebron-james-this-season

mind you that the lakers were one of the worst 3 point shooting teams in the league so they werent exactly playing with spacing. reaves WAS the spacing

i think Reaves could take minutes at the point. i also think Vassell could easily just slide into the 3. dont think he's confined to just be a 2-guard. his propensity for the midrange iso game, improving playmaking have some shades of nephew, who was primarily a 3

Vassell sliding to the three? That's even worse since the Spurs have a logjam there with Sochan and Johnson and are probably going to have to end up trading Keldon. Unless you want to trade Vassell I don't understand wanting Reaves.

[spurraider21]

Reaves can cook on his own tbh


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5rjMiPzm_Q

[spurraider21]

Vassell sliding to the three? That's even worse since the Spurs have a logjam there with Sochan and Johnson and are probably going to have to end up trading Keldon. Unless you want to trade Vassell I don't understand wanting Reaves.
sochan not a 3

keldon is the odd man out. or worst case you just have really good depth and let keldon feast on backups. or let reaves be your 6th man in a manu role

still not addressing Reaves performing just fine without LeBron in the picture

[baseline bum]

Reaves can cook on his own tbh


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5rjMiPzm_Q

You can find highlight videos that make Austin Rivers look like a HOF talent.

[baseline bum]

sochan not a 3

keldon is the odd man out. or worst case you just have really good depth and let keldon feast on backups. or let reaves be your 6th man in a manu role

Sochan sure ain't gonna be the 4 here and can't imagine he'd be able to handle the point so that pretty much leaves the SF role.

[spurraider21]

You can find highlight videos that make Austin Rivers look like a HOF talent.
austin rivers has been in the nba for a decade. of course its easy to find clips for him.

the highlights arent meant to show that he is this good on every possession. its reflective of a guy who can create for himself and isnt just a catch and shoot white boy feasting off the tit of lebron

reaves' performance also backed up by numbers, both counting stats and advanced stats. cant do that for austin rivers

[spurraider21]

Sochan sure ain't gonna be the 4 here and can't imagine he'd be able to handle the point so that pretty much leaves the SF role.
thing long term wemby is the 5. or sochan bulks up more to the point he can hang with centers the way draymond does from time to time. there are only 6 reg season games per year against Jokic/Embiid

[exstatic]

Austin Reaves is a role player.

[spurraider21]

Austin Reaves is a role player.
one thing thats certain is that as long as the spurs acquire him, you will change your tune on him

[spurraider21]

still waiting for this one too


can someone give me some recent examples of the supposed LAL value boost?

ie a player who was on the lakers, put up good numbers, was overvalued and then went elsewhere and suddenly sucked?

[Joseph Kony]

Austin Reaves is a role player.
no fucking shit, who said he was an all-star? great analysis

[Joseph Kony]

You can find highlight videos that make Austin Rivers look like a HOF talent.

While i agree that highlight videos can make anyone look good, advanced stats don't. and they all point to Reaves being an impact player. He may be overrated by virtue of playing in LA and its true he benefits by playing next to AD/LBJ but isnt excelling in that type of role exactly what you'd want playing next to wemby?

While I don't think he worth what he is going to be paid he is a top level role player imo, and he would fit seamlessly with our roster

[rjv]

reaves is not going to be a spur

[Leetonidas]

still waiting for this one too

Actually seems to usually be the opposite. Randle, Ingram, Lonzo, Hart, Clarkson....all played better after leaving LA

[spurraider21]

Actually seems to usually be the opposite. Randle, Ingram, Lonzo, Hart, Clarkson....all played better after leaving LA
KCP became a starter on a champion, and Kuzma (who i dont like fwiw) is set to get paid. Zubac has been a solid starter on a contender as well

[spurraider21]

reaves is not going to be a spur
probably not. but the reasons for dismissing him as a worthy player dont hold up

[RC_Drunkford]

Reaves averaged 21 PPG in the Denver series. He ain't no slouch and looked unstoppable at times against Memphis. He's definitely in Keldon territory salary wise, maybe even Vassell. His playoff heroics can either be viewed as a fluke or you could ask yourself what could he do if you give him more shots? I wouldn't want to pay him 25 million per year either, but he might be worth it.

[T Park]

Reaves averaged 21 PPG in the Denver series. He ain't no slouch and looked unstoppable at times against Memphis. He's definitely in Keldon territory salary wise, maybe even Vassell. His playoff heroics can either be viewed as a fluke or you could ask yourself what could he do if you give him more shots? I wouldn't want to pay him 25 million per year either, but he might be worth it.

people on this forum have gotten way too comfortable with losing and love the whole tanking thing so much they want to keep it up.

[RC_Drunkford]

people on this forum have gotten way too comfortable with losing and love the whole tanking thing so much they want to keep it up.

I mean the slow and steady approach is ok to me since we won't win a title in Wemby's first season. That shouldn't stop the Spurs from improving the roster though.

[Mr. Body]

people on this forum have gotten way too comfortable with losing and love the whole tanking thing so much they want to keep it up.

Goddamn Austin Reaves must be fucking Michael Jordan. Call Wemby tell him we don't need him anymore.

[spurraider21]

would be great to force the lakers into that structure tbh :lol

1673538125757575170

[scott]

I think people are overlooking just how impactful 10%/year increases in the salary cap are in relation to something like maxing Reeves.

Let's say it's 4/$101.9 as reported in the tweet above.

Year One: Cap $136MM / Reeves $25.5MM 18.7% of the cap
Year Two: Cap $149.6MM / Reeves $25.5MM 17.0% of the cap
Year Three: Cap $164.6MM / Reeves $25.5MM 15.5% of the cap
Year Four: Cap $181.1MM / Reeves $25.5MM 14.1% of the cap

Think what you will of Austin Reeves, but a 4/100 deals (for the right players) will quickly start to look like a bargain.

For this reason, I also think 4/100-110 is about right for Devin's extension.

[spurraider21]

yeah. this is largely a moot exercise because we dont really have any indication that the spurs are chasing reaves, and there appears to be a belief that the lakers would go so far as to match the max offer anyway, but its become a tiring trend to see people so reluctant to make roster improvements while also falling in love with every player that was on a 24 win team last year or whatever it was

like... we shouldnt pursue a good center because "what about bassey" lol

[Ocotillo]

Heard on the radio today that the Garland stuff is because Windhorst was discussing,he, Garland would be somebody the Cavs should use to get wing help and Mitchell made him more available. Supposedly, Twitter took off saying Garland was available and Windhorst came back to say, no, that is not the case, it was him speculating.

[BacktoBasics]

The Reaves dick sucking has reach ST insanity levels. Dude averaged 13ppg. He’s a fine player but he’s nowhere near Keldon or 101 million dollar contract. Thank god you guys aren’t real GMs. You’d have this team buried in shit contracts in no time.

That’s the exact kind of contract our front office has expressly stated they want to avoid.

[poopbox]

Sochan sure ain't gonna be the 4 here and can't imagine he'd be able to handle the point so that pretty much leaves the SF role.

It doesn't really matter what his "position" is. Sochan and Wemby will be on the floor together to start games and they will be on the floor together to end games.

And he will be the "4" here after a year or so when Wemby is the full time center. The way things are looking spurs might actually do what i said they wouldn't and just outright start him at center day 1.

[Mr. Body]

The Reaves dick sucking has reach ST insanity levels. Dude averaged 13ppg. He’s a fine player but he’s nowhere near Keldon or 101 million dollar contract. Thank god you guys aren’t real GMs. You’d have this team buried in shit contracts in no time.

That’s the exact kind of contract our front office has expressly stated they want to avoid.

FO: "We will avoid costly mistakes." "We will see what we have before moving forward."

ST: "WWAAAAAAH ME WANT WHITE REDNECK BOY."

LA: "We will match any offer for white redneck boy."

ST: "WAAAWAWAWAAAAAH ME WANT WHITE REDNECK BOY."

[Mugen]

one thing thats certain is that as long as the spurs acquire him, you will change your tune on him

:lol

[Mr. Body]

Also, the way ST gets obsessed with all the worst contracts/players:

Ben Simmons
Toby Harris
Deandre Ayton
John Collins...

I actually like Matt Reaves a little bit but am now starting to question that judgment.

[KobesAchilles]

The Reaves dick sucking has reach ST insanity levels. Dude averaged 13ppg. He’s a fine player but he’s nowhere near Keldon or 101 million dollar contract. Thank god you guys aren’t real GMs. You’d have this team buried in shit contracts in no time.

That’s the exact kind of contract our front office has expressly stated they want to avoid.
KJ isn’t a good player either so idk what you’re complaining about. KJ can’t create for others, turns the ball over a lot. And defensively he’s a sieve. The KJ love is ridiculous on this board. Im all for hyping Vassell or Sochan, players that have a definite role and position and strengths that add to the team. I’d rather have Austin Reaves on the team for 25 million than KJ at all.

a guy shooting 45% from the field, 32% from 3, can’t create for others, can’t dribble, turns the ball over, is small for his position, and can’t defend worth shit isn’t worth dying in the hill. But bc Spurstalk loves him, all of a sudden he’s a good player.

[spurraider21]

Actually seems to usually be the opposite. Randle, Ingram, Lonzo, Hart, Clarkson....all played better after leaving LA


KCP became a starter on a champion, and Kuzma (who i dont like fwiw) is set to get paid. Zubac has been a solid starter on a contender as well
caruso too

[Extra Stout]

KJ isn’t a good player either so idk what you’re complaining about. KJ can’t create for others, turns the ball over a lot. And defensively he’s a sieve. The KJ love is ridiculous on this board. Im all for hyping Vassell or Sochan, players that have a definite role and position and strengths that add to the team. I’d rather have Austin Reaves on the team for 25 million than KJ at all.

a guy shooting 45% from the field, 32% from 3, can’t create for others, can’t dribble, turns the ball over, is small for his position, and can’t defend worth shit isn’t worth dying in the hill. But bc Spurstalk loves him, all of a sudden he’s a good player.
But His Contract Is Team Friendly. $20 Million For 0.1 VORP Is A Bargain. Plus He Has So Much Corporate Knowledge. Do You Know How Hard It Is To Score 21 PPG On A 22-60 Team That Force Feeds You The Ball. And He Played Bad Defense On Purpose Because We Were Tanking.

[objective]

can someone give me some recent examples of the supposed LAL value boost?

ie a player who was on the lakers, put up good numbers, was overvalued and then went elsewhere and suddenly sucked?

I went back 20 years and couldn't really find an example.

If anything, playing for the Lakers and heading straight into free agency instead of being traded is bad for a players salary.

Both Pau Gasol and Brook Lopez had to take giant paycuts when leaving, only to build back value for the following contract.

Pau took a 60% paycut to sign with Bulls any Brook about 85% paycut going to Milwaukee

[spurraider21]

I went back 20 years and couldn't really find an example.

If anything, playing for the Lakers and heading straight into free agency instead of being traded is bad for a players salary.

Both Pau Gasol and Brook Lopez had to take giant paycuts when leaving, only to build back value for the following contract.

Pau took a 60% paycut to sign with Bulls any Brook about 85% paycut going to Milwaukee
i hate the lakers as much as anybody here. growing up in LA as a spurs fan does that to you.

but some of the narratives here are just... wrong

[TekXX]

But His Contract Is Team Friendly. $20 Million For 0.1 VORP Is A Bargain. Plus He Has So Much Corporate Knowledge. Do You Know How Hard It Is To Score 21 PPG On A 22-60 Team That Force Feeds You The Ball. And He Played Bad Defense On Purpose Because We Were Tanking.

You thought the players were playing bad on purpose? The players were playing bad because they are bad.

[Chinook]

FO: "We will avoid costly mistakes." "We will see what we have before moving forward."

ST: "WWAAAAAAH ME WANT WHITE REDNECK BOY."

LA: "We will match any offer for white redneck boy."

ST: "WAAAWAWAWAAAAAH ME WANT WHITE REDNECK BOY."

This ain't it man. You can argue that even if the Spurs are confident the Lakers match that it'd be a good idea to max Reaves. I can't imagine Reaves is signing for the max LAL can offer, so they need another team's help to get him locked up. It might even be a bit of good will toward LAL and Reaves' agent to facilitate that.

There are multiple ways to make costly mistakes. Many of them don't seem like mistakes until after they're made. Some that seem like mistakes don't end up being so. Carroll was a horrendous mistake, as was Primo. McDermott and Collins weren't. Will Keldon be a mistake? Maybe. He hasn't been a good player, is taking up a fair bit of cap and is seemingly preventing the team from getting an impact wing. Will Wesley be a mistake? People are talking about him being cut (he won't be), and it's very likely that players drafted after him will be better. Will opportunities the Spurs didn't take end up being mistakes? Probably. If Reaves holds up and is just this kind of player, the Spurs might've messed up. If Whitmore puts it together, or any of the folks the Spurs had a chance to trade up for becomes that second superstar. There are lots of ways to mess up. It's good that PATFO seems to have a plan. It doesn't mean that that plan is going to end up being optimal.

[Chinook]

i hate the lakers as much as anybody here. growing up in LA as a spurs fan does that to you.

but some of the narratives here are just... wrong

Insofar as I contributed to it, I think it was assuming it to be just like the NYK bump. I do think that's a more defensible narrative. Even Randle is an example of it.

[objective]

This ain't it man. You can argue that even if the Spurs are confident the Lakers match that it'd be a good idea to max Reaves. I can't imagine Reaves is signing for the max LAL can offer, so they need another team's help to get him locked up. It might even be a bit of good will toward LAL and Reaves' agent to facilitate that.

There are multiple ways to make costly mistakes. Many of them don't seem like mistakes until after they're made. Some that seem like mistakes don't end up being so. Carroll was a horrendous mistake, as was Primo. McDermott and Collins weren't. Will Keldon be a mistake? Maybe. He hasn't been a good player, is taking up a fair bit of cap and is seemingly preventing the team from getting an impact wing. Will Wesley be a mistake? People are talking about him being cut (he won't be), and it's very likely that players drafted after him will be better. Will opportunities the Spurs didn't take end up being mistakes? Probably. If Reaves holds up and is just this kind of player, the Spurs might've messed up. If Whitmore puts it together, or any of the folks the Spurs had a chance to trade up for becomes that second superstar. There are lots of ways to mess up. It's good that PATFO seems to have a plan. It doesn't mean that that plan is going to end up being optimal.

I had entirely erased the DeMarre Carroll fiasco from my head until this post.

If I was going to list Spurs mistakes since Kawhi I would have not even remembered to list it

Thanks for ruining that. Thanks a lot

[KobesAchilles]

You thought the players were playing bad on purpose? The players were playing bad because they are bad.
Blue font his response

tbh. It was a great add on to what I said.

[Mr. Body]

This ain't it man. You can argue that even if the Spurs are confident the Lakers match that it'd be a good idea to max Reaves. I can't imagine Reaves is signing for the max LAL can offer, so they need another team's help to get him locked up. It might even be a bit of good will toward LAL and Reaves' agent to facilitate that.

There are multiple ways to make costly mistakes. Many of them don't seem like mistakes until after they're made. Some that seem like mistakes don't end up being so. Carroll was a horrendous mistake, as was Primo. McDermott and Collins weren't. Will Keldon be a mistake? Maybe. He hasn't been a good player, is taking up a fair bit of cap and is seemingly preventing the team from getting an impact wing. Will Wesley be a mistake? People are talking about him being cut (he won't be), and it's very likely that players drafted after him will be better. Will opportunities the Spurs didn't take end up being mistakes? Probably. If Reaves holds up and is just this kind of player, the Spurs might've messed up. If Whitmore puts it together, or any of the folks the Spurs had a chance to trade up for becomes that second superstar. There are lots of ways to mess up. It's good that PATFO seems to have a plan. It doesn't mean that that plan is going to end up being optimal.

I mean, the team has told you what they're doing multiple times. They will not wilfully make long term mistakes. They want to see what works with Wembanyama.

I get that you're in love with Arkansas boy for some reason. I get it. But signing any contract for more than this season, especially to the tune of $25 million, is a mistake, and they recognize it would be a mistake. The other half of the equation -- they don't know what works with big French kid. Signing a relative flash in the pan to a long term contract is definitely a mistake.

Not as long as picking up, say, Damien Lillard or any other $40 million multiple year guy. But something they are not willing to do.

They are not going to sacrifice flexibility moving forward to achieve your dreams of watching the Arkansas dreamboat play for the Spurs. They are not going to commit to any player for more than just taking one year of salary. He's going to be resigned for the Lakers anyway so it's a moot point.

[spurraider21]

I mean, the team has told you what they're doing multiple times. They will not wilfully make long term mistakes. They want to see what works with Wembanyama.
ok. this is a discussion board, not just a proxy for an NBA transaction ticker. in addition to talking about what we think is likely to happen, we also have fun by giving our takes on what might be good/bad ideas. i think basically everyone here who likes Reaves, myself included, have stated outright that its an extremely unlikely scenario to play out.


I get that you're in love with Arkansas boy for some reason. I get it. But signing any contract for more than this season, especially to the tune of $25 million, is a mistake, and they recognize it would be a mistake. The other half of the equation -- they don't know what works with big French kid. Signing a relative flash in the pan to a long term contract is definitely a mistake.

Not as long as picking up, say, Damien Lillard or any other $40 million multiple year guy. But something they are not willing to do.

They are not going to sacrifice flexibility moving forward to achieve your dreams of watching the Arkansas dreamboat play for the Spurs. They are not going to commit to any player for more than just taking one year of salary. He's going to be resigned for the Lakers anyway so it's a moot point.
i dont understand this.

i think reaves is a good player. therefore i am in love with the arkansas dreamboat? the numbers say he's a good player, particularly the advanced metrics. he played a big role on a team that made a deep playoff run and held up against very good competition. his performance didnt waver when lebron/davis missed time. people saying that a player is good is suddenly this irrational fanboy take?

if i recall correctly, you yourself said you would be willing to pay up to trade up for anthony black. did you then go and mock yourself for falling in love with that arkansas dreamboat and scold yourself for suggesting the spurs may make an aggressive move?

[td4mvp2k]

Tempt? He’d sprint to HOU for that.

1674076794809376770
gross

[BacktoBasics]

KJ isn’t a good player either so idk what you’re complaining about. KJ can’t create for others, turns the ball over a lot. And defensively he’s a sieve. The KJ love is ridiculous on this board. Im all for hyping Vassell or Sochan, players that have a definite role and position and strengths that add to the team. I’d rather have Austin Reaves on the team for 25 million than KJ at all.

a guy shooting 45% from the field, 32% from 3, can’t create for others, can’t dribble, turns the ball over, is small for his position, and can’t defend worth shit isn’t worth dying in the hill. But bc Spurstalk loves him, all of a sudden he’s a good player.
The KJ hate is far more absurd. The idiocy in overly scrutinizing your number 1 option for his performance in a season where tanking was the priority.

Now I don’t think KJ is a number 1 but he’s a good player and will do much better this season now that they aren’t tanking.

When a team deliberately goes out of its way to work against continuity you need to bite your tongue when criticizing efficiency and percentages. Especially when it comes to the guy who was expected to essentially handle the offensive load.

[mo7888]

Ideally, the Heat would like to be able to trade Lowry either in a Lillard package, or to a team that can absorb his salary and send Miami back a useful player earning significantly less – a scenario that would lower the Heat’s tax bill. But that second option might be difficult to pull off because a limited number of teams have the cap space to take back a lot more money than they send out. The Heat appreciates Lowry’s contributions during the playoffs and how professionally he handled himself when moved to a bench role.



– via Miami Herald

We're one of the teams that can facilitate that type of deal with Graham's contract. It gets us off of Graham's partial guarantee the following year too.

[Mr. Body]

Ideally, the Heat would like to be able to trade Lowry either in a Lillard package, or to a team that can absorb his salary and send Miami back a useful player earning significantly less – a scenario that would lower the Heat’s tax bill. But that second option might be difficult to pull off because a limited number of teams have the cap space to take back a lot more money than they send out. The Heat appreciates Lowry’s contributions during the playoffs and how professionally he handled himself when moved to a bench role.



– via Miami Herald

We're one of the teams that can facilitate that type of deal with Graham's contract. It gets us off of Graham's partial guarantee the following year too.

Would rather keep Good Guy Graham. If Miami wants us to swallow Lowry's 30 million, they can give us a FRP or something else. They don't get a more servicable player out of it. We're going to be totally fine with the PGs we have.

[Mr. Body]

Ideally, the Heat would like to be able to trade Lowry either in a Lillard package, or to a team that can absorb his salary and send Miami back a useful player earning significantly less – a scenario that would lower the Heat’s tax bill. But that second option might be difficult to pull off because a limited number of teams have the cap space to take back a lot more money than they send out. The Heat appreciates Lowry’s contributions during the playoffs and how professionally he handled himself when moved to a bench role.



– via Miami Herald

We're one of the teams that can facilitate that type of deal with Graham's contract. It gets us off of Graham's partial guarantee the following year too.

The "Ideally" is doing a lot of work. Of course they'd like to get a better, cheaper player for Lowry. They'll probably need to attach something.

[KobesAchilles]

The KJ hate is far more absurd. The idiocy in overly scrutinizing your number 1 option for his performance in a season where tanking was the priority.

Now I don’t think KJ is a number 1 but he’s a good player and will do much better this season now that they aren’t tanking.

When a team deliberately goes out of its way to work against continuity you need to bite your tongue when criticizing efficiency and percentages. Especially when it comes to the guy who was expected to essentially handle the offensive load.
The team I go for says San Antonio Spurs. It doesn’t say KJ fucking Johnson. The team didn’t work against KJ. That’s a ridiculous statement. Btw over criticizing your number one player is literally what every fan of every team does. Imagine the whining over that.
What exactly about KJ proves he’s a good player? He’s not efficient. He can’t dribble. He can’t create. He’s highly turnover prone. He isn’t a good finisher. He gets stuck in traffic too often. And he has one year where he shot well from 3 and one year where he didn’t, so we don’t even know which year was the fluke year. And that says nothing about him on defense. Which he is the worst on the team at.

Now your second question, where does Kj fit on the starting line up? Bc from what I see, he doesn’t at all. So that leaves him for the 6th man. Can he do that role effectively? I have no idea. It’s not “hate” to literally list his stats last season, point out his defaults as a player, and then use these things to point out, hey you know what, maybe KJ just doesn’t fit with the Spurs future. I don’t hate KJ. I just want the Spurs to be good again

[Mr. Body]

Keldon Johnson will most likely start. Sochan on the bench, like at Baylor. We've been around in circles on this. Keldon's range and cutting will work better as a starter and he'll punish teams. He'll be more than fine. A third option is where he's going to shine.

[BacktoBasics]

The team I go for says San Antonio Spurs. It doesn’t say KJ fucking Johnson. The team didn’t work against KJ. That’s a ridiculous statement. Btw over criticizing your number one player is literally what every fan of every team does. Imagine the whining over that.
What exactly about KJ proves he’s a good player? He’s not efficient. He can’t dribble. He can’t create. He’s highly turnover prone. He isn’t a good finisher. He gets stuck in traffic too often. And he has one year where he shot well from 3 and one year where he didn’t, so we don’t even know which year was the fluke year. And that says nothing about him on defense. Which he is the worst on the team at.

Now your second question, where does Kj fit on the starting line up? Bc from what I see, he doesn’t at all. So that leaves him for the 6th man. Can he do that role effectively? I have no idea. It’s not “hate” to literally list his stats last season, point out his defaults as a player, and then use these things to point out, hey you know what, maybe KJ just doesn’t fit with the Spurs future. I don’t hate KJ. I just want the Spurs to be good again
I see where you went wrong. You didn’t read what I wrote. I never said the team worked against KJ. I said they worked against continuity specifically because they were tanking.

Your assessment of KJ is shallow and lacking insightfulness. It completely disregards the entire state of the team last year and its motives.

You’re analyzing in a vacuum.

[mo7888]

Would rather keep Good Guy Graham. If Miami wants us to swallow Lowry's 30 million, they can give us a FRP or something else. They don't get a more servicable player out of it. We're going to be totally fine with the PGs we have.

I don't think we do that deal straight up. They'd have to include something that we wanted to sweeten it.

[CGD]

I don't think we do that deal straight up. They'd have to include something that we wanted to sweeten it.

I agree, but the problem is they need to save all their amo (2 FRPs) for the Lillard trade.

[Knox]

https://www.facebook.com/reel/495158082459029?fs=e&s=TIeQ9V&mibextid=9imq16

[mo7888]

I agree, but the problem is they need to save all their amo (2 FRPs) for the Lillard trade.

It could come down to how the FO feels about Jovic..

[T Park]

I mean, the team has told you what they're doing multiple times. They will not wilfully make long term mistakes. They want to see what works with Wembanyama.

I get that you're in love with Arkansas boy for some reason. I get it. But signing any contract for more than this season, especially to the tune of $25 million, is a mistake, and they recognize it would be a mistake. The other half of the equation -- they don't know what works with big French kid. Signing a relative flash in the pan to a long term contract is definitely a mistake.

Not as long as picking up, say, Damien Lillard or any other $40 million multiple year guy. But something they are not willing to do.

They are not going to sacrifice flexibility moving forward to achieve your dreams of watching the Arkansas dreamboat play for the Spurs. They are not going to commit to any player for more than just taking one year of salary. He's going to be resigned for the Lakers anyway so it's a moot point.


this worked great in 2003

[Mr. Body]

this worked great in 2003

Yeah, too bad we didn't sign Austin Reaves in 2003.

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vY5vUVhvI8k

[CGD]

CHA thought to be looking to unload Haywards $31M expiring deal to help make space for several of the other players they want to bring back. I’d do it and ask them to modify their protections on the pick we own.

[BatManu20]

One name that has been rattling around the rumor mill in connection with the Celtics: forward Keita Bates-Diop (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bateske01.html), a solid all-around contributor for the Spurs last season who should be gettable on the cheap.

According to an NBA source, it’s possible that the Spurs, who have ample cap space, could sign KBD and look to flip him later, or use him in in a sign-and-trade deal in the coming week.

1674238640669564928

[CGD]

1674238640669564928

Go get your bag Keita!

[RC_Drunkford]

Flipping KBD in a sign and trade would be dope. He‘s perfect for contending teams without cap space

[spurraider21]

Flipping KBD in a sign and trade would be dope. He‘s perfect for contending teams without cap space
Not sure he’s gonna be expensive enough to warrant a sign and trade. Even taxpayer MLE should be plenty

[RC_Drunkford]

Not sure he’s gonna be expensive enough to warrant a sign and trade. Even taxpayer MLE should be plenty

yeah I thought the same. That’s why I said it would be dope :lol KBD ain‘t worth more than 2-3 million

[Notorious H.O.P.]

Not sure if this has been posted but if trading Keldon for Brogdon and three future firsts is on the table, do you take it?
https://hardwoodhoudini.com/2023/06/28/grade-trade-boston-celtics-brogdon-spurs/

[mystargtr34]

Would be surprising. Spurs should be all over this if so. Darius Garland for Toronto’s FRP next season + multiple 2RP’s. Who says no (besides the Cavs).

1674067440739708931

Interesting but at the same time I’m on surprised. I made a post last week about how I thought the Cavs and Wolves should do a deal involving Garland and KAT and sending Jarrett Allen to a third team.

Also posted a few times over the last 6 months about how Garland and Mitchell has not worked for the Cavs. They are basically net neutral when they’re on the court together and a net positive when one is on the bench. They need to break them up.

[Chinook]

I mean, the team has told you what they're doing multiple times. They will not wilfully make long term mistakes. They want to see what works with Wembanyama.

I get that you're in love with Arkansas boy for some reason. I get it. But signing any contract for more than this season, especially to the tune of $25 million, is a mistake, and they recognize it would be a mistake. The other half of the equation -- they don't know what works with big French kid. Signing a relative flash in the pan to a long term contract is definitely a mistake.

Not as long as picking up, say, Damien Lillard or any other $40 million multiple year guy. But something they are not willing to do.

They are not going to sacrifice flexibility moving forward to achieve your dreams of watching the Arkansas dreamboat play for the Spurs. They are not going to commit to any player for more than just taking one year of salary. He's going to be resigned for the Lakers anyway so it's a moot point.

So let's be clear: Signing Reaves is only a mistake if he doesn't continue his level of play. If he's Wes Matthews 2.0 where he flashes but then continues to shine for years, it's obviously a different story. The Spurs or any team signing Reaves is going to have to figure that out. It's not common for the player to be elite for a season and then fall off. He could come back to Earth quite a bit and still be worth it. As I said, folks here are pretty comfortable with Vassell getting that kind of money. If folks thinks Vassell is obviously better, they probably didn't really watch Reaves. He's not standing in the corner knocking down wide-open threes. He doesn't have Devin's potential as an iso scorer, but he's a dynamic offensive player who's more consistent than anyone the Spurs have and who doesn't have the same glaring holes they do. Many players on the Lakers over the last few years have had the chance to benefit from Lebron and Davis. None has seized the moment like Reaves, just as none of the two-guards the Spurs tried before Danny Green was able to take advantage of what the Spurs were doing. There's no magic formula to make a player perform well.

With all that said, I don't think I'm married to Reaves anymore than I want Jones to get a big deal, want the Spurs to trade for Simons or give Micic a bag. A lot of us can acknowledge the merits of a move and even advocate for it in an online discourse without being devoted to it. That's why the forum "obsesses over" Collins or Black or Prince or Kirilenko or Josh Howard or Grant Hill or any of the other player who've dominated the speculative threads. None of us care, really, I don't think. We talk about them because it's fun or interesting or outrageous or whatever. A lot of us enjoy things changing and may want them to continue to do so. And they will. This group will not be here forever. While the big names ST kicks around almost never come to SA, the idea of just keeping everything the same doesn't work either. It turns out the way for the Spurs to win their last title wasn't to just hope everyone developed. It was to make a big trade for a draft pick, to be willing to cut their highest pick in a while for a previous 10-day guy. It was to grab an unmotivated player from the buyout market and to poach an RFA to play over numerous young draft picks. There are plenty of twists and turns along the road as fans, man. There are many ways to engage with the process. If you want to believe in the 18 guys on the roster and hope they each becomes a key piece, that's valid. If you want to burn brain cells coming up with a bunch of hypothetical scenarios for how to improve the team, that's also valid.

[MultiTroll]

Not sure if this has been posted but if trading Keldon for Brogdon and three future firsts is on the table, do you take it?
https://hardwoodhoudini.com/2023/06/28/grade-trade-boston-celtics-brogdon-spurs/
Got to know his exact injury status. If that is even possible.
Last 4 games vs Miami to get eliminated were a disaster. His elbow was whack.

Otherwise yes.

[MultiTroll]

So let's be clear: Signing Reaves is only a mistake if he doesn't continue his level of play. If he's Wes Matthews 2.0 where he flashes but then continues to shine for years, it's obviously a different story. The Spurs or any team signing Reaves is going to have to figure that out. It's not common for the player to be elite for a season and then fall off.
Watched Reaves closely and honestly a lot of his scores come off defense that only required basic level IQ and failed.
If he can continue to exploit that, great.
The NBA has indeed lost it's way fundamentally.

But Lebron is a great set up player. Why he gets so much hate is kinda LOL to me.
Is Reaves going to continue to get those set up shots with another team?
We'll see.

I don't want to Spurs forking 4 110 or whatever he's asking to find out.
Only want virtually sure things to pair with Wemby. If that takes a couple years, fine.

[scott]

So let's be clear: Signing Reaves is only a mistake if he doesn't continue his level of play. If he's Wes Matthews 2.0 where he flashes but then continues to shine for years, it's obviously a different story. The Spurs or any team signing Reaves is going to have to figure that out. It's not common for the player to be elite for a season and then fall off. He could come back to Earth quite a bit and still be worth it. As I said, folks here are pretty comfortable with Vassell getting that kind of money. If folks thinks Vassell is obviously better, they probably didn't really watch Reaves. He's not standing in the corner knocking down wide-open threes. He doesn't have Devin's potential as an iso scorer, but he's a dynamic offensive player who's more consistent than anyone the Spurs have and who doesn't have the same glaring holes they do. Many players on the Lakers over the last few years have had the chance to benefit from Lebron and Davis. None has seized the moment like Reaves, just as none of the two-guards the Spurs tried before Danny Green was able to take advantage of what the Spurs were doing. There's no magic formula to make a player perform well.

With all that said, I don't think I'm married to Reaves anymore than I want Jones to get a big deal, want the Spurs to trade for Simons or give Micic a bag. A lot of us can acknowledge the merits of a move and even advocate for it in an online discourse without being devoted to it. That's why the forum "obsesses over" Collins or Black or Prince or Kirilenko or Josh Howard or Grant Hill or any of the other player who've dominated the speculative threads. None of us care, really, I don't think. We talk about them because it's fun or interesting or outrageous or whatever. A lot of us enjoy things changing and may want them to continue to do so. And they will. This group will not be here forever. While the big names ST kicks around almost never come to SA, the idea of just keeping everything the same doesn't work either. It turns out the way for the Spurs to win their last title wasn't to just hope everyone developed. It was to make a big trade for a draft pick, to be willing to cut their highest pick in a while for a previous 10-day guy. It was to grab an unmotivated player from the buyout market and to poach an RFA to play over numerous young draft picks. There are plenty of twists and turns along the road as fans, man. There are many ways to engage with the process. If you want to believe in the 18 guys on the roster and hope they each becomes a key piece, that's valid. If you want to burn brain cells coming up with a bunch of hypothetical scenarios for how to improve the team, that's also valid.

Nice blasts from the past. Once upon a time it was Jermaine O'Neal and Corey Magette who this board was obsessed with. There's always a new flash in the pan. At least Reeves would only be 4/100 in an era where that is a moderate contract.

[spurraider21]

Nice blasts from the past. Once upon a time it was Jermaine O'Neal and Corey Magette who this board was obsessed with. There's always a new flash in the pan. At least Reeves would only be 4/100 in an era where that is a moderate contract.
My favorite was Brad Miller

[T Park]

Yeah, too bad we didn't sign Austin Reaves in 2003.

had they actually signed someone that could perform in the playoffs like him maybe they beat the Lakers you're right.

[T Park]

Goddamn Austin Reaves must be fucking Michael Jordan. Call Wemby tell him we don't need him anymore.

hes better than trotting out Julian Champagne or however else you fucking pronounce it.


I had no idea this 20 win team was full of all stars. holy shit.

[T Park]

Not sure if this has been posted but if trading Keldon for Brogdon and three future firsts is on the table, do you take it?
https://hardwoodhoudini.com/2023/06/28/grade-trade-boston-celtics-brogdon-spurs/

no.

Brogdon is so broken the Clippers wouldn't take him. Jesus Christ.

[spurraider21]

no.

Brogdon is so broken the Clippers wouldn't take him. Jesus Christ.
I think that’s what the 3 firsts are for

[Mr. Body]

hes better than trotting out Julian Champagne or however else you fucking pronounce it.


I had no idea this 20 win team was full of all stars. holy shit.

Don't know how this is hard to understand. The team is not likely to spend wads of its resources upgrading positions when it doesn't know what it needs. Champagnie is incredibly cheap, Reaves is incredibly expensive.

[T Park]

I think that’s what the 3 firsts are for

yeah cause they don't have enough draft picks to not use as it is

[T Park]

Don't know how this is hard to understand. The team is not likely to spend wads of its resources upgrading positions when it doesn't know what it needs. Champagnie is incredibly cheap, Reaves is incredibly expensive.


Yeah I know you guys are just thrilled to lose again.

[Mr. Body]

Yeah I know you guys are just thrilled to lose again.

Man you guys are thirsty for Matt Reaves. I don't find him all that attractive.

[cutewizard]

It's a shooting league fellas

[spurraider21]

yeah cause they don't have enough draft picks to not use as it is
The idea at some point is to deal them for established players

[rankingtear]

Austin Reaves is a good player, value is inflated by a lot though. I think he is at least ATL Bogdan. As long as it does not prevent us from being players in future free agency, I am fine with making a run at him. Restricted free agency with Arenas provision makes this an easy match for LAL though. I think they already have a better idea than fans on what LAL would do, they won't freeze up their cap for a low chance to get him.

[Vince Carter's ankle]

He’s not efficient.
on the same lvl as Ja Morant, DeMar DeRozan, Pascal Siakam, CJ McCollum, Dejounte Murray, Paolo Banchero and Mikal Bridges

He can’t dribble.
proof?

He can’t create.
half of his 2P's are selfcreated

He’s highly turnover prone.
on the same lvl as RJ Barrett, OG Anunoby, Bojan Bogdanović and Jerami Grant

He isn’t a good finisher.
bullshit.
65.7% at the rim and 49.2 FG% on drives

He gets stuck in traffic too often.
Spurs had problems with spacing

[spurraider21]

Wow he must be as good as all those guys combined.

he also has a better ft% than shaq and 3pt% than kobe

[Vince Carter's ankle]

Wow he must be as good as all those guys combined.

he also has a better ft% than shaq and 3pt% than kobe
https://sun9-63.userapi.com/impg/rMfDE4TGox4krg5jPi2IhkN_e68uSd3pX34tUg/4fecgNTyBoY.jpg?size=420x337&quality=96&sign=05670b87aacba81047dc06d7e6162bda&type=album

[JPB]

Nice blasts from the past. Once upon a time it was Jermaine O'Neal and Corey Magette who this board was obsessed with. There's always a new flash in the pan. At least Reeves would only be 4/100 in an era where that is a moderate contract.

The obsession for Magette was something :lol He was THE missing piece, DAT swingman. Spurs NEEDED that guy.

But that's the game.

[exstatic]

CHA thought to be looking to unload Haywards $31M expiring deal to help make space for several of the other players they want to bring back. I’d do it and ask them to modify their protections on the pick we own.

Modify by removing.

[mo7888]

I'm fine with paying Reaves and I don't attribute much of his success to lebron. I'm also fine with spending money on 1 year guys and punting to next summer. The thing thats most intriguing to me right now is how numerous the paths this team can take that are legitimate. In the past, there we're really only 2 or 3 ways the team could go, but now there are several more than that. It's a lot to take in, but it's fun to consider.

[Philthemage]

Reading that Max Struss is going to get paid and there's a bug demand for shooters. With that being said is there more value than we think for McDermott. As much as I like him on the tram as a vet, he might be able to net us something good for a contending team.

[mo7888]

Reading that Max Struss is going to get paid and there's a bug demand for shooters. With that being said is there more value than we think for McDermott. As much as I like him on the tram as a vet, he might be able to net us something good for a contending team.

Max is going to be a good pickup for someone at a reasonable price for what he brings. McDermott would bring plenty of interest, but I dont think we move him.

[Extra Stout]

Max is going to be a good pickup for someone at a reasonable price for what he brings. McDermott would bring plenty of interest, but I dont think we move him.
If you figure Victor, Keldon and Jeremy each are going to play about 30 minutes a game, Doug would appear to be the odd man out. It might make sense to move him to a situation where he can get playing time.

[Philthemage]

If you figure Victor, Keldon and Jeremy each are going to play about 30 minutes a game, Doug would appear to be the odd man out. It might make sense to move him to a situation where he can get playing time.

I'd love to have him as a vet around our young guys. But I could see him being moved. He's got lots of value as a shooter and expiring contract. If not now probably by trade deadline when teams are making pushes in the playoffs.

[Mitch Cumsteen]

Even if the Spurs do something moderately stupid contract-wise (which I don't believe they will), they have enough assets to get out from under it. Barring a megatrade for a superstar that depletes them of all their future draft capital, I don't see how they can really screw up this off season. They have a lot of mulligans. That said, they still have to get up to the floor so they will do something.

Taking Hayward's expiring and removing next year's protections and getting some more assets back doesn't seem like a bad move. The Spurs were always reported to like Kai Jones and he's been displaced in the lineup by Mark Williams. Worst case, they don't pick up his option after next season and then clear the books again. And/or they dump Hayward on a contender for more assets at the deadline. Hayward could actually help this team for the 12 games during the season that he's healthy. Also, just imagine how much fun Pop would have with a MAGA supporter on the team. Team dinners would be so much more spicy.

[spurraider21]

I don’t think the Hornets have any interest in moving Hayward, let alone attaching assets to do so. He was quite good for them

[exstatic]

Even if the Spurs do something moderately stupid contract-wise (which I don't believe they will), they have enough assets to get out from under it. Barring a megatrade for a superstar that depletes them of all their future draft capital, I don't see how they can really screw up this off season. They have a lot of mulligans. That said, they still have to get up to the floor so they will do something.

Taking Hayward's expiring and removing next year's protections and getting some more assets back doesn't seem like a bad move. The Spurs were always reported to like Kai Jones and he's been displaced in the lineup by Mark Williams. Worst case, they don't pick up his option after next season and then clear the books again. And/or they dump Hayward on a contender for more assets at the deadline. Hayward could actually help this team for the 12 games during the season that he's healthy. Also, just imagine how much fun Pop would have with a MAGA supporter on the team. Team dinners would be so much more spicy.

I would get together with KBD's agent, and announce that he will sign one of two contracts on the last day before the season: 1 yr/$5M or 1 yr/$30M, and that we will meet the salary floor by the deadline, and cannot be hung out to dry by a last minute trade falling through. I think that may sufficiently motivate any teams that need to clear second apron room to come to the table in good faith. It keeps the cap rental door open until the last second, almost literally.

[Philthemage]

Even if the Spurs do something moderately stupid contract-wise (which I don't believe they will), they have enough assets to get out from under it. Barring a megatrade for a superstar that depletes them of all their future draft capital, I don't see how they can really screw up this off season. They have a lot of mulligans. That said, they still have to get up to the floor so they will do something.

Taking Hayward's expiring and removing next year's protections and getting some more assets back doesn't seem like a bad move. The Spurs were always reported to like Kai Jones and he's been displaced in the lineup by Mark Williams. Worst case, they don't pick up his option after next season and then clear the books again. And/or they dump Hayward on a contender for more assets at the deadline. Hayward could actually help this team for the 12 games during the season that he's healthy. Also, just imagine how much fun Pop would have with a MAGA supporter on the team. Team dinners would be so much more spicy.

I m hoping we do something similar with Philly and Tobias Harris. I feel he had lots of mileage left in him and he can be like a diaw. But last I heard Philly was asking a lot for him.

[spurraider21]

I don’t think the Hornets have any interest in moving Hayward, let alone attaching assets to do so. He was quite good for them

[exstatic]

I m hoping we do something similar with Philly and Tobias Harris. I feel he had lots of mileage left in him and he can be like a diaw. But last I heard Philly was asking a lot for him.

I've always considered Tobias to be overpaid since he exited his rookie deal, but the thing that freaks me out the most is the amount of times he's been traded. He was traded at 20, in his second season, and also at ages 23,25, and 26. That just kind of raises alarm bells with me that nobody wants to keep this guy.

[exstatic]

I don’t think the Hornets have any interest in moving Hayward, let alone attaching assets to do so. He was quite good for them

He was very 50 games played for $30M for them. They were shopping him last year because he can't stay healthy, and that doesn't appear to have changed.

[rjv]

hayward was always a spurs killer but he'd be even more of a spur killer if he was actually a spur.

[Mr. Body]

Hayward only has one more year and the Hornets don't seem to be in bad shape salary-wise.

The gargantuan one-year deals like Harris has seem to be on the move to take on longer bad salaries. Not sure Philly would do that, but it doesn't seem like he's a strict salary dump candidate, but things can change.

[Philthemage]

I've always considered Tobias to be overpaid since he exited his rookie deal, but the thing that freaks me out the most is the amount of times he's been traded. He was traded at 20, in his second season, and also at ages 23,25, and 26. That just kind of raises alarm bells with me that nobody wants to keep this guy.

But apparently he's a terrific locker room guy

[exstatic]

But apparently he's a terrific locker room guy

So terrific that he keeps getting traded?

[KobesAchilles]

on the same lvl as Ja Morant, DeMar DeRozan, Pascal Siakam, CJ McCollum, Dejounte Murray, Paolo Banchero and Mikal Bridges

proof?

half of his 2P's are selfcreated

on the same lvl as RJ Barrett, OG Anunoby, Bojan Bogdanović and Jerami Grant

bullshit.
65.7% at the rim and 49.2 FG% on drives

Spurs had problems with spacing
lol bringing up people the spurs got rid of :lol. That wins the argument, he’s as efficient as demar derozan :lmao

You can like your favorite player. That’s fine. I’m not here to change your mind on who your favorite player is. Spurstalk used to like actual good players and hofs. But 5 years after they retire and fans lose all standards. KJ sucks for the team and won’t be on the team in 3 years. He has no place on our team. Too small and dumb to defend anybody at any position never mind the SF, doesn’t create for others, and isn’t as good a SG prospect as Vassell.

As a person KJ is great. His heart is great, his passion for the game is evident and amazing, his hustle and love for the game is beyond reproach, it’s just a shame that he isn’t talented. I will say though, if we pay him like a 7th man on the rotation then I am fine with it. But if KJ is your 3rd highest paid player or getting paid 20 million a year to be the 5th option off the bench then we aren’t competing for shit

[BatManu20]

Harden demanding trade out of Philly.

1674519780106153985

[LeBowen]

Trade scenarios? Which contender would even want him?

Clippers?

[Ocotillo]

Harden demanding trade out of Philly.

1674519780106153985

Diva gotta Diva.

[BatManu20]

Clippers, Knicks, and Suns reportedly highly interested, as well as Houston. Clippers seem like the best bet imo but who knows. PHX is a long shot.

[RC_Drunkford]

Suns :lol what they got to offer? Torey Craig? :lol

[Mr. Body]

Suns :lol what they got to offer? Torey Craig? :lol

Probably for Ayton, with Ayton going somewhere else. AFAIK only Dallas has any interest in that guy, so maybe a circle jerk mong those teams.

[Ocotillo]

Clippers, Knicks, and Suns reportedly highly interested, as well as Houston. Clippers seem like the best bet imo but who knows. PHX is a long shot.

I saw a headline (did not click on it) that Phoenix was/is interested in Kyrie also. Also, Thibs wanting that Harden defense no doubt.

[LeBowen]

Suns :lol what they got to offer? Torey Craig? :lol

I'm just baffled at how can some of these people make a great living off basketball.

Like why would you even think about adding another horrible defender that also doesn't do anything off the ball on offense?

Knicks are even worse, they're not an actual contender and Harden doesn't move the needle. Brunson just had an amazing season and is definitely better than current Harden.
Why would they want Harden who can't be the first option they need?

If Wemby is the real deal and Brian finally gets it Wright, we're back in contention within two years.

[TD 21]

Harden and Harris for George, Morris Sr. and Covington?

Wonder if the 76ers would pursue Westbrook at that point to add needed playmaking.

[Mugen]

Harden and Harris for George, Morris Sr. and Covington?

Wonder if the 76ers would pursue Westbrook at that point to add needed playmaking.

Yeah that makes sense. Ballmer goes all in this year and blows it up if it doesn't work out. Westbrook would probably go back to the Clippers if that happened.

[CGD]

Clippers, Knicks, and Suns reportedly highly interested, as well as Houston. Clippers seem like the best bet imo but who knows. PHX is a long shot.

Damn, Houston can trade for him with Porter, Jabari Smith, and filler WHILE keeping all that space to sign FVV and Kuzma. Maybe enough to also bring in that nad Dillon Brooks. Complete make over.

[RC_Drunkford]

I'm just baffled at how can some of these people make a great living off basketball.

Like why would you even think about adding another horrible defender that also doesn't do anything off the ball on offense?

Knicks are even worse, they're not an actual contender and Harden doesn't move the needle. Brunson just had an amazing season and is definitely better than current Harden.
Why would they want Harden who can't be the first option they need?

If Wemby is the real deal and Brian finally gets it Wright, we're back in contention within two years.

That's why it's great to be a Spurs fan. While our FO is sometimes too conservative, it's great to know that we don't make boneheaded moves like these :lol

[RC_Drunkford]

Damn, Houston can trade for him with Porter, Jabari Smith, and filler WHILE keeping all that space to sign FVV and Kuzma. Maybe enough to also bring in that nad Dillon Brooks. Complete make over.

I'd love that. After tanking just trade all your youth for players 30+ so you can start the rebuild again after 3 mediocre seasons

[Mugen]

1674525550973538304

:lol

[BatManu20]

Damn, Houston can trade for him with Porter, Jabari Smith, and filler WHILE keeping all that space to sign FVV and Kuzma. Maybe enough to also bring in that nad Dillon Brooks. Complete make over.That’d be great for us. Trading some of their youth for an aging playoff choker like Harden would be great for the Spurs tbh. The timeline of guys like Jalen Green and Amen Thompson doesn’t like up with Harden at all. It wouldn’t work.

[RC_Drunkford]

Philly gotta be in the race to get Dame now tbh. Now that I think about it: Atlanta trading Murray + fillers for Harden would be hilarious :lol

[TD 21]

Yeah that makes sense. Ballmer goes all in this year and blows it up if it doesn't work out. Westbrook would probably go back to the Clippers if that happened.

Maybe, but he'd be an awkward fit next to Harden, has too big an ego to accept a 20 mpg backup role and the 76ers would have a far greater need.

[LeBowen]

Philly gotta be in the race to get Dame now tbh

They've got nothing to offer.
Maxey is the only good tradeable player they have and they can't trade any picks before 2029.
OKC has their 2025 first rounder and Nets have 2027. Can't trade 2024 and 2026 because of it.

They're more or less fucked and I'm really enjoying it because Embiid is the most overrated player in the league and Morey is the most overrated GM in NBA history.


Clippers can't trade any picks, either, but they can take both Harden and Tobias.
Ballmer is going all in, he doens't give a fuck. :lol

[CorrectCrusader]

Philly gotta be in the race to get Dame now tbh. Now that I think about it: Atlanta trading Murray + fillers for Harden would be hilarious :lol

What does philly have that Portland wants though. Picks?

[cd98]

I mean Harden is a name, but he’s on the decline and he’s still choking in the playoffs. What is he really worth on the trade market? Nothing like Durant in my opinion.

[RC_Drunkford]

They've got nothing to offer.
Maxey is the only good tradeable player they have and they can't trade any picks before 2029.
OKC has their 2025 first rounder and Nets have 2027. Can't trade 2024 and 2026 because of it.

They're more or less fucked and I'm really enjoying it because Embiid is the most overrated player in the league and Morey is the most overrated GM in NBA history.


Clippers can't trade any picks, either, but they can take both Harden and Tobias.
Ballmer is going all in, he doens't give a fuck. :lol

Ture. I wasn't sure how many picks they had left. The best thing for them would be to trade Harden + Tucker for PG13. That would make them better. Other than that I can only see the Rockets, Knicks, Chicago (Lavine for Harden) and maybe ATL, Toronto or Miami be interested. None of it makes much sense, but I'm here to see it unfold :lol

[rjv]

so philly bids farewell to "the traveler".

[Seventyniner]

Philly gotta be in the race to get Dame now tbh. Now that I think about it: Atlanta trading Murray + fillers for Harden would be hilarious :lol

If that happens I'm going all in on Atlanta strip club stocks. Harden might be broke by the end of his first season there.

[jesterbobman]

I think there's a category difference between opting in on the day before free agency, requesting a trade (when the Sixers would have no option to replace him with anything more than MLE money) and the shit Kyrie / KD / Harden have pulled at previous stops.

This basically works for both Harden and the Sixers - Harden has more options of teams to go to than just FA (Houston, us, Indiana...1 team there that's a maybe), Philly can get something out of a trade (Herro or Lowry + Jovic, Barrett, Mann and Covington, etc).

[BacktoBasics]

Exactly why I’d rather keep guys like Keldon and build around elite role players. Todays superstars are gross divas.

[RC_Drunkford]

it's probably Paul George and Marcus Morris or Norman Powell for Tobias Harris and James Harden tbh

[CGD]

They've got nothing to offer.
Maxey is the only good tradeable player they have and they can't trade any picks before 2029.
OKC has their 2025 first rounder and Nets have 2027. Can't trade 2024 and 2026 because of it.

They're more or less fucked and I'm really enjoying it because Embiid is the most overrated player in the league and Morey is the most overrated GM in NBA history.


Clippers can't trade any picks, either, but they can take both Harden and Tobias.
Ballmer is going all in, he doens't give a fuck. :lol

Could be a three way of some sort, like:

PHI: Dame
HOU: Harden
POR: Jabari; Picks; filler like Porter