Summer trades

[Mr. Body]

It's pretty unusual for a player to be washed at 30. I wonder what happened.

Too many cigarettes.

Dudes French.

[sfernald]

30 mpg? Johnson and Vassell might be the only Spurs who crack that number, with Wembanyama hovering around it.

If they trade for Fournier, it won't be about him so much as it'll be somewhat alleviating the roster crunch and if McDermott is involved, clearing a path for Champagnie.

I mean, 30 minutes is about what he has played besides last year (when he was benched for the year) for past 10 years or so, but if its 20 minutes maybe he’ll have more energy to play defense.

I thought this was an interesting quote from him about his last season with the Knicks:

"If you want to trade me with a good return, why didn't you use me? I was coming out of a season where I was the fourth-best 3-point shooter in the league. Why not take advantage of it?" Fournier told. "Now they won't get anything interesting and that's normal because I couldn't show anything [on the court]."

[Kurik]

Can you think of a single team starting a 6'2" SG that has won an NBA championship?

I hope the Spurs don’t have to go after a Mitchell type of player whether that means Vassell makes another jump, Spurs draft well, or find a different player to trade for. But as it stands now there’s not a great list of free agents over the next couple years so I think it’s worth looking into. I just assume in 3-4 years Pop is gonna want to contend, either way I’m just excited to see how the Spurs build a contender.

[scott]

What are everyone's ideal consolidation trade? No wrong answers here, just wondering where people's heads are at.

At this point, I'm in the mood for a salary dump, pick collection more than anything else (which entails taking on salary going into 2024-25). Preferably something with a 2026 or 2028 FRP attached.

Then, depending on what the team has shown by then, I'm hoping at the deadline we can start entertaining the idea of moving some picks for high-end young-ish talent. Perhaps someone who is going to need a big extension but the team isn't in a place where they want to do that. (At this juncture, I have no clue who that may be). Looking for scenarios similar to when we traded DJM.

[spurraider21]

What are everyone's ideal consolidation trade? No wrong answers here, just wondering where people's heads are at.

At this point, I'm in the mood for a salary dump, pick collection more than anything else (which entails taking on salary going into 2024-25). Preferably something with a 2026 or 2028 FRP attached.

Then, depending on what the team has shown by then, I'm hoping at the deadline we can start entertaining the idea of moving some picks for high-end young-ish talent. Perhaps someone who is going to need a big extension but the team isn't in a place where they want to do that. (At this juncture, I have no clue who that may be). Looking for scenarios similar to when we traded DJM.
not sure how many big salary dump moves are really available. we dont have cap room to absorb cap hits this year anymore, so the only way we'd be helping a team in a salary dump move is sending over some expiring contracts for deals which run through the 24-25 season. not sure the FO wants to start piling on salary for that year, they've made an emphasis on keeping things flexible. when it comes to that type of deal, one that comes to mind is Lonzo Ball. chicago already owes us a 2025 protected first which is encumbered through 2027. they could send the protected pick they have from portland (lottery protected from 2024 through 2028)

otherwise we'd have to wait until the deadline when teams realize that they are carrying dead weight and need to move off deals. right now a lot of squads are optimistic of their chances, and need to see things go poorly for half a season before they decide they need to shed contracts that they now realize are bad. that could be clint capela, caris levert, tim hardaway jr, zubac, larry nance, dennis schroder, etc. hard to know until we see how those teams season outlook is and what those players are performing like.

short of those kinds of deals, right now the most obvious consolidation trade is the potential one with Miami if they indeed trade for Lillard. they wouldnt need to keep kyle lowry around as a 30 mil backup PG, so we can trade some spare parts for him to help them fill the back end of their roster with some combination of playable vets like Payne/Graham/Bullock/Osman. that wouldnt really require trade compensation either way tbh. the spurs get a solid vet, playable PG for a year, while miami gets the spare parts they need after having lost Struss, Vincent, likely Herro and Robinson in the trade. its a win/win and both teams would just be swapping expiring deals

[Mr. Body]

What are everyone's ideal consolidation trade? No wrong answers here, just wondering where people's heads are at.

At this point, I'm in the mood for a salary dump, pick collection more than anything else (which entails taking on salary going into 2024-25). Preferably something with a 2026 or 2028 FRP attached.

Then, depending on what the team has shown by then, I'm hoping at the deadline we can start entertaining the idea of moving some picks for high-end young-ish talent. Perhaps someone who is going to need a big extension but the team isn't in a place where they want to do that. (At this juncture, I have no clue who that may be). Looking for scenarios similar to when we traded DJM.

Lowry makes the most sense.

Miami-Spurs have a good relationship. Spurs need veteran help at point. Heat will need depth if they make a Lillard trade.

[exstatic]

What are everyone's ideal consolidation trade? No wrong answers here, just wondering where people's heads are at.

At this point, I'm in the mood for a salary dump, pick collection more than anything else (which entails taking on salary going into 2024-25). Preferably something with a 2026 or 2028 FRP attached.

Then, depending on what the team has shown by then, I'm hoping at the deadline we can start entertaining the idea of moving some picks for high-end young-ish talent. Perhaps someone who is going to need a big extension but the team isn't in a place where they want to do that. (At this juncture, I have no clue who that may be). Looking for scenarios similar to when we traded DJM.

Lowry to consolidate, THEN pick up salary for next year at the trade deadline when you move him to a contender.

[Ariel]

What are everyone's ideal consolidation trade? No wrong answers here, just wondering where people's heads are at.

At this point, I'm in the mood for a salary dump, pick collection more than anything else (which entails taking on salary going into 2024-25). Preferably something with a 2026 or 2028 FRP attached.

Then, depending on what the team has shown by then, I'm hoping at the deadline we can start entertaining the idea of moving some picks for high-end young-ish talent. Perhaps someone who is going to need a big extension but the team isn't in a place where they want to do that. (At this juncture, I have no clue who that may be). Looking for scenarios similar to when we traded DJM.
I'd do a Bullock + Osman + Birch for Fournier + McBride. All contracts are expiring. Knicks get help on the wings and get rid of a distraction at the expense of taking in 4M more in salary. The Spurs consolidate 3 players into 1 (McBride makes just 1.8M and gets cut), Fournier is a good shooter who can help Wemby on and off the court. Small trade that works for both teams IMO, add a 2nd rounder from the Knicks if you must.

[spurraider21]

I'd do a Bullock + Osman + Birch for Fournier + McBride. All contracts are expiring. Knicks get help on the wings and get rid of a distraction at the expense of taking in 4M more in salary. The Spurs consolidate 3 players into 1 (McBride makes just 1.8M and gets cut), Fournier is a good shooter who can help Wemby on and off the court. Small trade that works for both teams IMO, add a 2nd rounder from the Knicks if you must.
Think birch is getting waived and we’d just send Payne instead

[Ariel]

Think birch is getting waived and we’d just send Payne instead
Well, that's the point: it's the Knicks who take on the 7M dead cap so that they can rid themselves of Fournier and not us. Payne can be used or flipped, the Knicks have plenty of guards already, but if they wanted him instead of Payne, sure: add draft compensation and he's yours.

[Chinook]

Think birch is getting waived and we’d just send Payne instead

If Birch's contract is getting partially paid by insurance, his deal might be more moveable than an expiring insta-cut contract would normally be. I would imagine the Holts would want to be the team getting paid to waive Khem, but if that savings is enough to get a team to give up a better asset, they might let the FO take that instead.

[Seventyniner]

Fournier makes no sense while McDermott is on the roster, especially with Champagnie waiting in the wings.

[CGD]

Fournier makes no sense while McDermott is on the roster, especially with Champagnie waiting in the wings.

Bro, it’s not about the player fit, it’s about moving contracts around and getting paid to do it.

[CGD]

not sure how many big salary dump moves are really available. we dont have cap room to absorb cap hits this year anymore, so the only way we'd be helping a team in a salary dump move is sending over some expiring contracts for deals which run through the 24-25 season. not sure the FO wants to start piling on salary for that year, they've made an emphasis on keeping things flexible. when it comes to that type of deal, one that comes to mind is Lonzo Ball. chicago already owes us a 2025 protected first which is encumbered through 2027. they could send the protected pick they have from portland (lottery protected from 2024 through 2028)

otherwise we'd have to wait until the deadline when teams realize that they are carrying dead weight and need to move off deals. right now a lot of squads are optimistic of their chances, and need to see things go poorly for half a season before they decide they need to shed contracts that they now realize are bad. that could be clint capela, caris levert, tim hardaway jr, zubac, larry nance, dennis schroder, etc. hard to know until we see how those teams season outlook is and what those players are performing like.

short of those kinds of deals, right now the most obvious consolidation trade is the potential one with Miami if they indeed trade for Lillard. they wouldnt need to keep kyle lowry around as a 30 mil backup PG, so we can trade some spare parts for him to help them fill the back end of their roster with some combination of playable vets like Payne/Graham/Bullock/Osman. that wouldnt really require trade compensation either way tbh. the spurs get a solid vet, playable PG for a year, while miami gets the spare parts they need after having lost Struss, Vincent, likely Herro and Robinson in the trade. its a win/win and both teams would just be swapping expiring deals

Definitely Lowry, but I assume that’s not happening because he’ll ultimately be needed for the Dame trade.

Second I like Fournier in a 2 for 1.

Last I like Ball + FRP. It has to be worth it to commit to eat money into next year, but I think this fits the bill.

[CGD]

If Birch's contract is getting partially paid by insurance, his deal might be more moveable than an expiring insta-cut contract would normally be. I would imagine the Holts would want to be the team getting paid to waive Khem, but if that savings is enough to get a team to give up a better asset, they might let the FO take that instead.

Interesting point. Hadn’t considered the insurance angle. Not that the spurs care this year, but his contract figure still counts against the cap though right?

[CGD]

I'd do a Bullock + Osman + Birch for Fournier + McBride. All contracts are expiring. Knicks get help on the wings and get rid of a distraction at the expense of taking in 4M more in salary. The Spurs consolidate 3 players into 1 (McBride makes just 1.8M and gets cut), Fournier is a good shooter who can help Wemby on and off the court. Small trade that works for both teams IMO, add a 2nd rounder from the Knicks if you must.

Sign me up.

I get the impression Spurs like Bullock btw, and per spotrac seems he has a 5% trade kicker on his deal. Can see him sticking around this season.

[Ariel]

Bro, it’s not about the player fit, it’s about moving contracts around and getting paid to do it.
Clearly. If they can package some of those guys into a single player on an expiring contract who can arguably provide SOME value, it beats waiving those players and adding to the dead cap. And if you can get a pick or dump salary in the process (that you can later re-use), all the better. Fact of the matter is, if the Spurs want to make the most out of any of the guys we just received, it's going to take time for them to redeem themselves on the court, but the problem is the roster crunch must happen before the season, so something's got to give.

[Ariel]

Fournier makes no sense while McDermott is on the roster, especially with Champagnie waiting in the wings.
That'd be a valid concern if the Spurs were paying assets to get him, in this case we have too many roster spots and you won't find a deal that consolidates several players into one while saving money and maybe getting an asset (2nd rounder). Also McDermott is a prime trade candidate by the next trade deadline, giving Wemby a shooter who is also a countryman he'll have some ties with isn't the worst scenario in the context of realistic possibilities.

[Chinook]

I don't read any benefit of consolidation trades that don't involve the Spurs getting assets, saving salary space or getting better on the court. Simply having fewer players to waive isn't a benefit. I'd have no interest in a Fournier trade. It doesn't help that he'd have to be waived anyway. Basically all of the vets acquired this off-season have to go. A two- or even three-for one deal isn't enough.

[spurraider21]

I don't read any benefit of consolidation trades that don't involve the Spurs getting assets, saving salary space or getting better on the court. Simply having fewer players to waive isn't a benefit. I'd have no interest in a Fournier trade. It doesn't help that he'd have to be waived anyway. Basically all of the vets acquired this off-season have to go. A two- or even three-for one deal isn't enough.
It gives us more salary to work with in midseason trades. Ie if we waive bullock Osman and Payne that’s 3 less potential trade pieces. Consolidating preserved that. Maybe it’s overkill given just how many we already have to work with

then ask yourself if you’d rather have a year of Graham/Payne or Lowry on the team. Think we could use a steady vet like that to help the young guys out. It’s like if Dieng could actually contribute

[Mr. Body]

I don't read any benefit of consolidation trades that don't involve the Spurs getting assets, saving salary space or getting better on the court. Simply having fewer players to waive isn't a benefit. I'd have no interest in a Fournier trade. It doesn't help that he'd have to be waived anyway. Basically all of the vets acquired this off-season have to go. A two- or even three-for one deal isn't enough.

If you have to waive players before the season starts, you can't use their salary for deadline trades. They're gone. If you consolidate into a larger contract, you can hang onto it until the deadline so it stays valuable.

[Chinook]

It gives us more salary to work with in midseason trades. Ie if we waive bullock Osman and Payne that’s 3 less potential trade pieces. Consolidating preserved that. Maybe it’s overkill given just how many we already have to work with

then ask yourself if you’d rather have a year of Graham/Payne or Lowry on the team. Think we could use a steady vet like that to help the young guys out. It’s like if Dieng could actually contribute

Lowry and Fournier are different for a few reasons. Kyle would play; Evan would not. Having more salary for a worse player and a full roster isn't necessarily better. Most contenders will be nervous about adding to their tax and may not have the spare matching salary. Last deadline showed it's no easy to get a first for salary savings anymore. I'm not of the mind of the Spurs doing better selling the rights to an unhappy Fournier than they would Bullock's or Payne's

[Chinook]

If you have to waive players before the season starts, you can't use their salary for deadline trades. They're gone. If you consolidate into a larger contract, you can hang onto it until the deadline so it stays valuable.

Just responded to that. The Spurs have plenty of salary. They aren't missing out here. Folks are also way too confident that Fournier would make the team. I think it's far more likely that one of Bullock or Payne would.

[Seventyniner]

Bro, it’s not about the player fit, it’s about moving contracts around and getting paid to do it.

Why would the Knicks pay the Spurs to take Fournier? He's an expiring contract just like anybody the Spurs would send back.

[Robz4000]

Why would the Knicks pay the Spurs to take Fournier? He's an expiring contract just like anybody the Spurs would send back.

Isn't he under contract through next season?

[Mr. Body]

Why would the Knicks pay the Spurs to take Fournier? He's an expiring contract just like anybody the Spurs would send back.

He'd be a sizeable player exception. Depending on the structure, they may shed salary. Depending on the players, they may acquire depth.

[CGD]

Why would the Knicks pay the Spurs to take Fournier? He's an expiring contract just like anybody the Spurs would send back.

That’s a different question than the “fit” question you raised, but, yes, a valid question. They’d probably be enticed by: 1) savings from a valid but lopsided trade (12M for 18M), and/or 2) getting off a grumpy player.

[Seventyniner]

That’s a different question than the “fit” question you raised, but, yes, a valid question. They’d probably be enticed by: 1) savings from a valid but lopsided trade (12M for 18M), and/or 2) getting off a grumpy player.

I had assumed both that the Knicks wouldn't be willing to include assets in an expiring-for-expirings swap and thus the fit would matter because there would be no other reason for the Spurs to trade for Fournier.

You're right that the Knicks might give an asset, probably a small one like a second round pick, to get a player or two that don't have Fournier's attitude problem. But with the current Spurs roster Fournier wouldn't have any easier of a path to playing time with the Spurs than he did with the Knicks. That's where the fit comes in.

You're also right that the Spurs could save the Knicks some money by sending out less than Fournier's full salary. Fournier will make $18.9M and the Spurs only have to send out around $12M. Graham for Fournier straight up works in the ESPN NBA Trade Machine, for example. That trade makes no sense for the Spurs, though, and any combination of players the Spurs would be willing to give up would eat into that theoretical maximum $6.9M savings. Osman + Birch is $13.7M, saving the Knicks $5.2M.

The Spurs would still have a roster crunch after a 2-for-1 like that but if the Knicks are willing to give up something like a second and maybe some cash (half the savings from the trade?) the Spurs could take the deal and then cut Fournier to avoid him whining about having to compete with McD and Champ for minutes as a backup.

[Seventyniner]

Isn't he under contract through next season?

His $19M salary for 2024-2025 is a team option, one that will almost certainly be declined, so he's basically an expiring contract.

[exstatic]

Isn't he under contract through next season?

Team option, so, no.

[Spurs Brazil]

https://twitter.com/Spurs_Nation/status/1682878104434364417?s=20

[CGD]

https://twitter.com/Spurs_Nation/status/1682878104434364417?s=20

Are they just repackaging the interview from last week, or is this something new?

[exstatic]

Do not want. He was ineffective in limited minutes, and I don want him getting regular minutes and stunting the development of our young players.

[MultiTroll]

Is Pop getting a package ready for Patty Mills?

Any word on Bryn Forbes availability?

[slick'81]

Guess well be linked to every french player from here on out

[sfernald]

Guess well be linked to every french player from here on out

Vive la révolution!

[lefty20]

Vive la révolution!

Shams : Spurs sign Max Robespierre to a designated veteran max contract worth 500 million. Rival GMs worried that Spurs reign of terror is just beginning.

[CGD]

Looks like RealGM updated it’s future picks tracker. By my count this was the haul this summer (including selling off 33 in the draft):

2025 SRP from NOLA
2026 SRP from OKC, DAL, PHI (worst)
2026 SRP from UTH
2027 SRP from OKC, HOU, IND, MIA (worst)
2028 SRP from MIN
2030 FRP from DAL (swap)
2030 SRP from CLE

I think a few of those are intentionally nothing burger picks like the 2027. And, list could grow some if they flip Bullock and others acquired.

[SpursFan86]

Not a trade, but Jaylen Brown got his 5 year/$304MM extension from Boston. Richest contract in NBA history…sheesh.

[Adam21]

Not a trade, but Jaylen Brown got his 5 year/$304MM extension from Boston. Richest contract in NBA history…sheesh.

Pretty wild, just going to be the norm from now on. Good for him, imagine how much the owners are making!

[Seventyniner]

Pretty wild, just going to be the norm from now on. Good for him, imagine how much the owners are making!

Agreed on both fronts.

The Celtics will probably have a few lean years around 2030-2032 if they are willing to stay over the second apron, but carpe diem baby.

[CGD]

Not a trade, but Jaylen Brown got his 5 year/$304MM extension from Boston. Richest contract in NBA history…sheesh.

Lol at the thought of Vassell extension coming in at 15M per.

[Mr. Body]

Not a trade, but Jaylen Brown got his 5 year/$304MM extension from Boston. Richest contract in NBA history…sheesh.

Instantly awful contract.

[stnick2261]

wonder if that contract helps us out with the 2028 pick swap

[KobesAchilles]

Man Wemby is going to make 80 a year. Crazy. I’m guessing he will be the first 5 year 400 million dollar contract

[ambchang]

That sound is of the Celtics window slamming shut.

[Mr. Body]

Man Wemby is going to make 80 a year. Crazy. I’m guessing he will be the first 5 year 400 million dollar contract

The cap will have gone up at that point and presumably he'll be a very good player.

I'm not sure Jaylen Brown is a top 20 player in the league...

[rjv]

i wonder what the saudis would pay jaylen.

[exstatic]

Not a trade, but Jaylen Brown got his 5 year/$304MM extension from Boston. Richest contract in NBA history…sheesh.

GS gives those kinds of contracts, but they win titles. Boston hasn't, and is already feeling the cap crunch before this deal, as they are offloading role players they can no longer afford. I see them as one of the first 2-3 teams to have their 2031 or 2032 pick trade locked and then subsequently moved to the end of the first round.

[timtonymanu]

Ce:lolltics

[spurraider21]

Looks like RealGM updated it’s future picks tracker. By my count this was the haul this summer (including selling off 33 in the draft):

2025 SRP from NOLA
2026 SRP from OKC, DAL, PHI (worst)
2026 SRP from UTH
2027 SRP from OKC, HOU, IND, MIA (worst)
2028 SRP from MIN
2030 FRP from DAL (swap)
2030 SRP from CLE

I think a few of those are intentionally nothing burger picks like the 2027. And, list could grow some if they flip Bullock and others acquired.
those expiring deals like bullock will be more valuable at the deadline than they are now... the problem is we will have to let several of them go well before the deadline

[Twisted_Dawg]

Instantly awful contract.

Agreed. Twitter is pillaging the C's now, even some Celtic fans wondering WTF?

[exstatic]

those expiring deals like bullock will be more valuable at the deadline than they are now... the problem is we will have to let several of them go well before the deadline

Which is why you do a combination trade like Lowry, for example. He can be a locker room presence, play a few minutes, and be flipped to a contender at the deadline for an asset or two. Miami also needs a bench, which we can provide for them.

[Seventyniner]

Man Wemby is going to make 80 a year. Crazy. I’m guessing he will be the first 5 year 400 million dollar contract

If the cap really does go up 10% every single year, Wemby might be the first player to make $100M in one season.

The cap is $136M this season. 10% compounded over 8 seasons makes $291M and 35% of that for the supermax is $102M. That would be in 2031-2032.

[Bruno]

An interesting read about Herro:
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-trade-rumors-tyler-herro-and-the-rapidly-diminishing-value-of-one-way-players/



"The league as a whole has become really skeptical of these one-way guys," an Eastern Conference scout told CBS Sports. "Everyone thinks in terms of the playoffs now. It used to be, if you could score 20 points, you were a dude. No questions asked. But now, if you have a weakness, if you can't hold your own on the defensive end, unless you're a franchise guy, you're going to get played off the court."

[spurraider21]

wonder if that contract helps us out with the 2028 pick swap
we dont know much about what the celtics will look like in the 27-28 season leading up to that draft, other than jaylen brown being under contract for about 60-65 mil or so depending on how much the cap has increased. tatum presumably will sign a comparable supermax and be under contract at the same time. this is 2 years after KP's extension has expired, 3 years after white/brogdon's current contracts are up.

but it would be tatum's age 29 season and brown's age 31 season, so there should be a relatively stable floor even if the rest of the roster is ass.

boston also has no outgoing FRP on the books prior to the swap year, so they should have the ability to supplement the roster (in fact, they are set to receive an additional FRP in 2024 from golden state). they also have a handful of incoming SRPs between now and then

[spurraider21]

Which is why you do a combination trade like Lowry, for example. He can be a locker room presence, play a few minutes, and be flipped to a contender at the deadline for an asset or two. Miami also needs a bench, which we can provide for them.
agreed, i've been an advocate of a lowry trade. but thats contingent on a lillard deal getting done. right now lowry is the only PG on the heat roster

[Robz4000]

Not a trade, but Jaylen Brown got his 5 year/$304MM extension from Boston. Richest contract in NBA history…sheesh.

:lmao

[spurraider21]

1683895299608018951

[R. DeMurre]

Jaylen Brown is probably the best current case subject for the raw stats vs advanced stats debate. His raw stats say "star," at 26.6 ppg, 6.6 rpg, and 3.5 apg, but the impact numbers tell a totally different story. He had a 110/111 ORtg/DRtg on a 57-25 team, and his on/off per 100 possessions was a -3.8. He had the 5th best VORP on his team, 6th best BPM, and 11th best WS/48.

[Mr. Body]

Jaylen Brown is probably the best current case subject for the raw stats vs advanced stats debate. His raw stats say "star," at 26.6 ppg, 6.6 rpg, and 3.5 apg, but the impact numbers tell a totally different story. He had a 110/111 ORtg/DRtg on a 57-25 team, and his on/off per 100 possessions was a -3.8. He had the 5th best VORP on his team, 6th best BPM, and 11th best WS/48.

This is a case where a team overpays to keep talent because replacing the player is nearly impossible. It reminds me of the Clippers paying OKC through the nose to sign Kawhi and acquire Paul George. It's nearly destroyed them since.

[R. DeMurre]

This is a case where a team overpays to keep talent because replacing the player is nearly impossible.


Yeah, it's a tough spot to be in-- rumors say the Celts explored trade options for Brown, especially for Durant. I wonder if there were trade offers that they rejected-- I'd love to see those, because I'm just not convinced that Brown as your #2 guy gets you a championship without incredible depth.

[exstatic]

Yeah, it's a tough spot to be in-- rumors say the Celts explored trade options for Brown, especially for Durant. I wonder if there were trade offers that they rejected-- I'd love to see those, because I'm just not convinced that Brown as your #2 guy gets you a championship without incredible depth.

The sad thing is, those trade offers were likely at the Feb. deadline, before the implementation of the second apron. If they knew then what they know now, maybe a hypothetical 75 cents on the dollar offer would have been accepted.

Brown isn't a good #2 because he's never accepted that is what he is.

[R. DeMurre]

The sad thing is, those trade offers were likely at the Feb. deadline, before the implementation of the second apron. If they knew then what they know now, maybe a hypothetical 75 cents on the dollar offer would have been accepted.

Brown isn't a good #2 because he's never accepted that is what he is.

Right, and the bigger problem might be that he isn't even a great #2-- which might be what Brad Stevens thinks too and why he decided they needed Porzingis, so they could have a 2a + 2b situation.

[TD 21]

Considering he's basically a poor man's Scumbag, suffice it to say I'm no Brown fan.

But people need to stop being consumed with dollar figures and term and starting being consumed with % of cap and asset retention.

Instead of having him unhappy with them, they've eliminated a looming distraction, can continue to contend in the short term with him, then reassess at that point and instead of him dissuading non glamor markets with the threat of not re-signing, they can cast a wider net and maximize value if push comes to shove.

[exstatic]

Considering he's basically a poor man's Scumbag, suffice it to say I'm no Brown fan.

But people need to stop being consumed with dollar figures and term and starting being consumed with % of cap and asset retention.

Instead of having him unhappy with them, they've eliminated a looming distraction, can continue to contend in the short term with him, then reassess at that point and instead of him dissuading non glamor markets with the threat of not re-signing, they can cast a wider net and maximize value if push comes to shove.

I'm not sure they can do that. The pairing appears dysfunctional.

[KobesAchilles]

If he learns how to dribble left handed then that’s the only way this will be a good contract.

[TD 21]

I'm not sure they can do that. The pairing appears dysfunctional.

I didn't say win one (no superstar + lack of a high end play maker), but barring significant injury, they've proven they're a virtual lock to be in the mix every season.

Do that enough and maybe one season they get some Warriors/Raptors luck and fall ass backwards into one.

[spurraider21]

I'm not sure they can do that. The pairing appears dysfunctional.
dysfunctional is a strong word lol. they were one game away from making the finals this season. made the finals the year before.

going into this season feels like they have about as good a chance as anybody to win. just because they havent won yet doesnt mean they are't capable of it. the spurs fumbling against okc in 2012 and miami in 2013 didnt mean they had to blow the team up

[Seventyniner]

The Celtics might be less than the sum of their parts, but those parts are still pretty good. They should be at least a darkhorse contender for the next few years.

[Mr. Body]

The Celtics might be less than the sum of their parts, but those parts are still pretty good. They should be at least a darkhorse contender for the next few years.

They should continue to contend. Miami had kind of a fluke run and the rest of the EC is omnishambles.

[scott]

Not a trade, but Jaylen Brown got his 5 year/$304MM extension from Boston. Richest contract in NBA history…sheesh.

IMO, the main bullet point takeaway for me as it pertains to the Spurs is that we should in no circumstances be counting on some future FA class where we'll be able to add a second star. Stars don't become FA anymore, and the ones that do aren't real FAs (I'm thinking of a marginal star like Lavine last season. He was set for FA but as far as I can remember, no one else even had a chance to make an offer). The Spurs are going to have to draft or trade for the second star next to Wemby.

[scott]

If the cap really does go up 10% every single year, Wemby might be the first player to make $100M in one season.

The cap is $136M this season. 10% compounded over 8 seasons makes $291M and 35% of that for the supermax is $102M. That would be in 2031-2032.

And honestly it might not even be enough to retain all of the NBA's biggest stars. Once the Saudi's decide they want to create a premium basketball league, they'll start tossing around $300-500MM deals at the NBA's top stars, and who will blame some of these guys for taking it. Saudi being willing to pay $776MM for one season of Mbappe is going to shake up the sports landscape.

[Mr. Body]

And honestly it might not even be enough to retain all of the NBA's biggest stars. Once the Saudi's decide they want to create a premium basketball league, they'll start tossing around $300-500MM deals at the NBA's top stars, and who will blame some of these guys for taking it. Saudi being willing to pay $776MM for one season of Mbappe is going to shake up the sports landscape.

I'm not sure the Saudi stuff is sustainable. It's also so crazy it suggests to me something really bad/wild is going on internally they're trying to get in front of. It's already a corrupt and decadent regime, but this is stupidly, splashily wasteful in a bizarre way.

[scott]

I'm not sure the Saudi stuff is sustainable. It's also so crazy it suggests to me something really bad/wild is going on internally they're trying to get in front of. It's already a corrupt and decadent regime, but this is stupidly, splashily wasteful in a bizarre way.

I agree it's not sustainable - but I'm not sure it signals anything corrupt going on beyond the normal corruption and human rights abuse that exists in that regime. It's hard to understand the endgame though. Say they land Giannis and Jokic both at 2/800MM... okay, then what? It's not like that makes a compelling league that will sustain into the future. It's weird, but I also hold nothing against a player who cashes in and takes the bag.

[CGD]

those expiring deals like bullock will be more valuable at the deadline than they are now... the problem is we will have to let several of them go well before the deadline

Honestly, of the acquired guys I think only Bullock has some value to a potential playoff team. And, considering we got cash to take on Payne and Osman, I think those guys are in line to be waived/bought out by the start of the season (along with Berch)

[spurraider21]

Honestly, of the acquired guys I think only Bullock has some value to a potential playoff team. And, considering we got cash to take on Payne and Osman, I think those guys are in line to be waived/bought out by the start of the season (along with Berch)
its still frankly bizarre that the mamu signing has not been made official yet, nor have we heard any news about what's going on with Cissoko's situation. let alone barlow, who may be waiting to see if he gets any offers from other teams

[exstatic]

its still frankly bizarre that the mamu signing has not been made official yet, nor have we heard any news about what's going on with Cissoko's situation. let alone barlow, who may be waiting to see if he gets any offers from other teams

Everything is being held up, leaguewide, by either the Harden or Lillard trade. There’s a certain sequence to signings, and obvs Mamu and Sidy have to go last.

[TD 21]

Bontemps on Mitchell yesterday on the "Hoop Collective" podcast: "I don't think there's any chance he signs an extension there ever".

If he comes available next off season, the Knicks will be conventional wisdom, but if they didn't go all-in a year ago, there's no reason to think they've changed their stance (they're said to be waiting on Embiid). The Nets would probably be more likely.

The Spurs would obviously have to have a sense that he'd be open to re-signing first, but unlike other teams loaded with draft capital (Thunder and Jazz), they make sense and can make a compelling offer (Johnson, cap relief, significant draft capital).

[MannyIsGod]

I agree it's not sustainable - but I'm not sure it signals anything corrupt going on beyond the normal corruption and human rights abuse that exists in that regime. It's hard to understand the endgame though. Say they land Giannis and Jokic both at 2/800MM... okay, then what? It's not like that makes a compelling league that will sustain into the future. It's weird, but I also hold nothing against a player who cashes in and takes the bag.

Its only unsustainable if your end goal is to make money which its pretty clear isn't the goal with Saudi's and sports. They're willing to throw away money because they see the monetary value of that expense in other aspects than profitable sports.

[Mr. Body]

I agree it's not sustainable - but I'm not sure it signals anything corrupt going on beyond the normal corruption and human rights abuse that exists in that regime. It's hard to understand the endgame though. Say they land Giannis and Jokic both at 2/800MM... okay, then what? It's not like that makes a compelling league that will sustain into the future. It's weird, but I also hold nothing against a player who cashes in and takes the bag.

Well, I mean, the Saudis are extremely corrupt. I'm not saying there's anything corrupt going on with their sports expenditures -- that may be the only above-board thing going on with them. I'm just saying that throwing around insane amounts of money like this might be a way of throwing attention elsewhere, a way of buying the sort of soft power the United States has. They're buying goodwill and 'normalcy' from sports fans. Which is... fine. But it's so frantic and absurd it's hard not to speculate what the fuck is going on internally with them.

[scott]

Well, I mean, the Saudis are extremely corrupt. I'm not saying there's anything corrupt going on with their sports expenditures -- that may be the only above-board thing going on with them. I'm just saying that throwing around insane amounts of money like this might be a way of throwing attention elsewhere, a way of buying the sort of soft power the United States has. They're buying goodwill and 'normalcy' from sports fans. Which is... fine. But it's so frantic and absurd it's hard not to speculate what the fuck is going on internally with them.

Great point and I agree. It's basically what Qatar did with their World Cup bid.

[ambchang]

Or maybe it’s a way for them to turn illegal money into legal money. Like trading art or opening a bar.

[CGD]

Cap question:

my understanding is Spurs received cash in both Payne and Osman deals. If that money is used to process a buyout for those players, does only the remaining balance count as a dead cap hit?

Example: spurs got around 5M in the Payne deal, which is for 6.5M overall. If they reach a buyout for close to the entire salary with the player, would they be able to just show 1.5M in “dead cap.”

[Chinook]

Cap question:

my understanding is Spurs received cash in both Payne and Osman deals. If that money is used to process a buyout for those players, does only the remaining balance count as a dead cap hit?

Example: spurs got around 5M in the Payne deal, which is for 6.5M overall. If they reach a buyout for close to the entire salary with the player, would they be able to just show 1.5M in “dead cap.”

No. Money received has no effect on the cap. It just goes into the Holts' pockets

[CGD]

No. Money received has no effect on the cap. It just goes into the Holts' pockets

Got it. So basically for accounting purposes it’ll ends up being the 1.5M or whatever, but the team is stuck with the whole 6.5M as the dead cap hit.

[CGD]

Sounds like the rookies drafted just now are now eligible to be moved in trades. That includes Jaquez who could now get rolled up in the Dame stuff.

[Drom John]

Can you think of a single team starting a 6'2" SG that has won an NBA championship?

Not in the last 50 years.

Not quite, but the SG with the most minutes for the 2011 Mavericks was 6'2" Jason Terry, though DeShawn Stephenson had more starts. Without starting Terry had more championship series minutes than Stephenson.

51 years ago, 1972 Lakers Gail Goodrich 6'1".

[Gagnrath]

If Birch's contract is getting partially paid by insurance, his deal might be more moveable than an expiring insta-cut contract would normally be. I would imagine the Holts would want to be the team getting paid to waive Khem, but if that savings is enough to get a team to give up a better asset, they might let the FO take that instead.
I think the spurs want Payne... Not super bad but they like the idea of an over himself vet that has quality playoff experience and is a reasonable back-up pg.

[Joseph Kony]

Bumping this thread due to the recent developments in Philly

in case anyone has missed it, Philly recently shut down trade talks on Harden and expect him to report to camp for the upcoming season. Harden responded by stating, while on a tour in China, that Morey was a liar and he would never play for a Morey team again. Philly has doubled down saying they still expect Harden to report. Now media mouthpieces (Shelbourne i think i saw earlier) are claiming that Harden is prepared to make things very uncomfortable for Philly (whatever that means)

in addition, Joel Embiid removed sixers info and Philly from his twitter bio. This is probably him just trolling since he is known for being a troll, but it sounds like all is not well in the city of brotherly love




So....how does a Wemby/Embiid twin towers pairing sound:stirpot:

[scott]

More Philly cast offs to join Bassey and Champ! So long as none of them are James Harden, I’m game! :lol

[JPB]

More Philly cast offs to join Bassey and Champ! So long as none of them are James Harden, I’m game! :lol

Harden may have sabotaged the rest of his career with his last comments on Morey... Philly was already having a hard time finding a good trade for them and Harden massively hurt whatever remaining value he has... And good luck if he stays with the Sixers. I don't know if hurting his value was precisely his intention (really not sure) but you gotta know where to draw the line, other GMs are watching you and it's really not good eiher for your image and brand.

[CGD]

I’ll be happy once Harden, Irving and KAT are no longer relevant/in the league. They are epitome of the negative side of the power empower era, which as a general matter has been a good thing

[exstatic]

I’ll be happy once Harden, Irving and KAT are no longer relevant/in the league. They are epitome of the negative side of the power empower era, which as a general matter has been a good thing

I think this may be Harden's last year. No one is going to want to put up with his diva shit/quitting routine. It's obvious he's never going to do anything related to winning.

[mo7888]

Bumping this thread due to the recent developments in Philly

in case anyone has missed it, Philly recently shut down trade talks on Harden and expect him to report to camp for the upcoming season. Harden responded by stating, while on a tour in China, that Morey was a liar and he would never play for a Morey team again. Philly has doubled down saying they still expect Harden to report. Now media mouthpieces (Shelbourne i think i saw earlier) are claiming that Harden is prepared to make things very uncomfortable for Philly (whatever that means)

in addition, Joel Embiid removed sixers info and Philly from his twitter bio. This is probably him just trolling since he is known for being a troll, but it sounds like all is not well in the city of brotherly love




So....how does a Wemby/Embiid twin towers pairing sound:stirpot:

Outside of Joker, nobody in the games fits better next to Wembanyama than Embiid at the 5. The concern would be the cost to acquire + injury.

[Joseph Kony]

Outside of Joker, nobody in the games fits better next to Wembanyama than Embiid at the 5. The concern would be the cost to acquire + injury.

ofc...injuries are the biggest concern, Embiid flaming out in the playoffs every year due to poor conditioning is a legit problem. But the Spurs are one of the few teams that have the assets to put together a godfather offer if they wanted to. and there wont be many players better to try to obtain than a reigning MVP (no matter how underserved)

[stnick2261]

Why don't we just trade for Embiid and Doncic so our franchise players are evenly split in ages? (Wemby 19, Doncic 24, Embiid 29)

[JPB]

I think this may be Harden's last year. No one is going to want to put up with his diva shit/quitting routine. It's obvious he's never going to do anything related to winning.

The Clippers wants him to nobody's surprise and that's where he wants to go.. And that might be the last team still ready to accept his diva BS, they're craving for "star power" and to exist in La La Land.

[Leetonidas]

The Clippers wants him to nobody's surprise and that's where he wants to go.. And that might be the last team still ready to accept his diva BS, they're craving for "star power" and to exist in La La Land.

Actually it doesn't sound like the Clippers are all that interested otherwise a deal would have probably gotten done. Sounds like they're only offering expiring contracts

[R. DeMurre]

I can never think of Philadelphia anymore without remembering Bill Burr's famous and hilarious 10+ minute rant about it :lol