Windhorst: Wembanyama Not Thrilled With Where Spurs Are; Doesn't Think Spurs Can Get Away With Slow Build

[exstatic]

Gregg Popovich is completely responsible for the shit-show of a season we’ve seen. It’s been a wasted year and it didn’t need to be. Thank goodness Wemby loves the organization and its history. He’s done his part & must feel let down by the team’s inaction & poor planning. He should have been surrounded by competent players with a mix of youth and experience.

To do what? A Houston fuckup? This team would have struggled to make even the play in with a few veterans. This is literally the last chance for us to earn our own high draft pick in Wemby’s career.

Once Tim came on board in 97, the best pick we saw was #20, when the Spurs shockingly only won 50 games one year. WE NEED THESE TWO PICKS, be they 3 and 8 or whatever. This is the seed corn for Wemby’s 20s.

[scott]

Still didn’t get the guys part meaning mainstream media. But since you haven’t heard it and is too lazy to do any research to debunk your own agenda for getting Trae young, here you go:

https://fadeawayworld.net/nba-analyst-thinks-victor-wembanyama-will-join-the-lakers-in-the-next-five-years
https://hoopshabit.com/2023/06/25/viral-tweet-wembanyama-lakers-spurs/


Holy shit… you sure did show me.

[spurraider21]

a viral tweet by clutch points and a comment by renowned NBA commentator... keyshawn johnson? :lol

[Sugus]

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I'm wondering if this tweet made into a post would reach 20 pages? Might not even crack 5, tbh. So much shit-slinging at the media's reporting, yet we're all here eating it up like they want to, giving weight to nonsense and noise.

Btw, some shit reporting by Ramona Shelburne here, who I hold (held?) in higher regard. Yeah the generational prospect doesn't want to be bottom of the standings for his career - shocker! :rolleyes

[Brazil]

Gregg Popovich is completely responsible for the shit-show of a season we’ve seen. Its been a wasted year and it didn’t need to be. Thank goodness Wemby loves the organization and its history. He’s done his part & must feel let down by the team’s inaction & poor planning. He should have been surrounded by competent players with a mix of youth and experience.

what an imbecile take... shit show ? what shit show ? Spurs number one pick is healthy, improved his game tremendously, gonna be ROTY, already putting historical number and cherry on the cake the season will ensure a high draft pick.

what would be a good season ? a 35 wins ? barely missing the POs ? no draft pick ? that would a no shit show ? smh...

[rjv]

windhorst is nowhere near being as privy to the inner workings of wemby's camp as he was with lebron, as much as he wants to be. tWemby is very cerebral and seems to know basketball very well. also, he's a Euro and has a different mind set than many of the American ballers. i have more reason to believe mike finger than any of the ESPN hacks.

[CGD]

I find this talk increasingly hilarious.

We all know the 75% chance scenario this summer is that the Spurs bring in a few low/mid profile vets, draft two quality role players, keep their THREE potential lotto picks in 2025, and continue to make internal improvements into next year. They'll set a realistic goal of making the play-in game next year, which feels about right.

[spurraider21]

I find this talk increasingly hilarious.

We all know the 75% chance scenario this summer is that the Spurs bring in a few low/mid profile vets, draft two quality role players, keep their THREE potential lotto picks in 2025, and continue to make internal improvements into next year. They'll set a realistic goal of making the play-in game next year, which feels about right.
its not always reasonable to expect rookies to be meaningful contributors to team success

[Chinook]

Wemby and KD would be insane for a few years but what's the cost tbh?

That's definitely the question. I think Durant is worth more than Young, but the Spurs can't justify paying more for him given his age, health and the fact that he hasn't been to the Finals since 2019. He'd be a fantastic mentor/sage, but the league would have to recalibrate to value him in that role rather than as a franchise player. The Suns in particular may not be at that point. It's a shame, because joining the Spurs and boosting Wemby to a ring is probably the best redemption arc he could have at this point. Even returning to OKC would be sort of tainted given how good they are already. That extension he signed with Brooklyn a couple of years ago might've been a mistake for his legacy, all things considered. But I guess that's par for the course.

[Seventyniner]

Mat Ishbia is way too egotistical to give up on Durant after mortgaging the team's future to put their big 3 together.

[objective]

RGMers were talking about the Suns trading Durant. I would definitely prefer KD to anyone else extensively talked about. I can't think of a better mentor for Victor than Durant. He has the type of game Wemby wants to develop and is as far as I know an enthusiastic teacher. He also has one of the more unique career journeys for a guy of his talent, and I think he could provide a lot of wisdom in terms of what to do and what not to do in that regard. I don't know if the Spurs could be a contender given Durant's age. But as I said earlier in this thread, the point of the off-season isn't to win more games. It's to get Victor as set up as possible, and getting a guy who can be for him as David was to Tim seems like a dream come true.

Plus, yeah, if they made the right moves around it, Durant and Wemby absolutely could win a title as 1A and 1B.

No thanks for me anyway

I don't want a coach killing merc who is hyper sensitive to be Wemby's mentor at all.

Is he going to teach Wemby how to ruin your own team by insisting your washed up scrub buddies deserve to start over legit NBA players like with DeAndre Jordan and Jarrett Allen? Teach him to leave for whichever team beats him in the WCF?

If KD is still bent out if shape over people not giving him enough credit for the GS wins after sulking his entire last Warriors season I don't want to think about the sabotage he'd get up to here with the love people have for Wemby

Add in the injuries and age and the capital it would take to get him.... No thanks

[ambchang]

Yeah, found the tweets and articles and all I got are emojis, it's pretty clear mainstream media, in fact the vast majority of the media and fans, would want big names in big markets, not just for the NBA, but for all sports. Things like salary cap and rules that encourage players to sign with hometown teams were created specifically for this reason, so that the small market teams can retain talent and be competitive. Having multiple markets being competitive helps the overall league, but the bigger market teams still draws in the vast majority of revenues, this isn't a secret or anything.

This is doubly true for the media, where they get viewership from bigger markets, and much better ad revenues, not to mention an average reporter would much rather travel to LA and NY for work than travelling to San Antonio and Denver.

There has been countless examples of this, from Kawhi to LA (I still think it was because he wanted to at the end), Davis to LA, Shaq to LA, Kareem to LA (he listed NY), Lebron to LA. Some of them didn't work, like Chris Paul to LA, but there is a consistent history for the media to help drive big names to big markets. It helps that LA has way better marketing opportunities than anywhere else as well ,but to act like this doesn't exist is just odd to me.

[Chinook]

No thanks for me anyway

I don't want a coach killing merc who is hyper sensitive to be Wemby's mentor at all.

Is he going to teach Wemby how to ruin your own team by insisting your washed up scrub buddies deserve to start over legit NBA players like with DeAndre Jordan and Jarrett Allen? Teach him to leave for whichever team beats him in the WCF?

If KD is still bent out if shape over people not giving him enough credit for the GS wins after sulking his entire last Warriors season I don't want to think about the sabotage he'd get up to here with the love people have for Wemby

Add in the injuries and age and the capital it would take to get him.... No thanks

Durant's way better than Young and likely will be for the remainder of their contracts. I totally get having a limit on what to pay for an old player, which is why it probably won't happen. If his market is as a superstar, it doesn't make sense. If it drops to a high-impact vet, it would.

But the fact that Durant has already faced situations Wemby will face and taken paths he clearly seems to regret is definitely a plus in my book. You learn from the whole of a person, not just an idealized version of them. Someone who can tell Wemby, "I jumped ship and have been chasing ghosts ever since" is way more impactful than a guy who can say, "I didn't leave my team for my whole career until I came here," which would be what Curry could say. Obviously Curry would be almost as fantastic of a get as Durant (better fit as a co-star but less likely to be able to mentor Victor), but Durant's story offers many more lessons, though if Wemby has an injury arc in his future, Steph's experiences might be invaluable.

I think Durant's antics have given people the impression that he's a bad personality on a team or in a locker room. Everything I've heard about folks who actually interact with Durant suggest he's actually pretty cool, and when he's talking and not posting under a fake account, he seems quite deliberate and aware.

[Barfunk]

1765049856849047760

I'm wondering if this tweet made into a post would reach 20 pages? Might not even crack 5, tbh. So much shit-slinging at the media's reporting, yet we're all here eating it up like they want to, giving weight to nonsense and noise.

Btw, some shit reporting by Ramona Shelburne here, who I hold (held?) in higher regard. Yeah the generational prospect doesn't want to be bottom of the standings for his career - shocker! :rolleyes

Smh, bitch ass ESPN already trying to stir the pot to get Wemby out of SA. In his fucking ROOKIE SEASON! ESPN, YOU'RE B*TCH MADE HATERS!!

[vy65]

Durant's way better than Young and likely will be for the remainder of their contracts. I totally get having a limit on what to pay for an old player, which is why it probably won't happen. If his market is as a superstar, it doesn't make sense. If it drops to a high-impact vet, it would.

But the fact that Durant has already faced situations Wemby will face and taken paths he clearly seems to regret is definitely a plus in my book. You learn from the whole of a person, not just an idealized version of them. Someone who can tell Wemby, "I jumped ship and have been chasing ghosts ever since" is way more impactful than a guy who can say, "I didn't leave my team for my whole career until I came here," which would be what Curry could say. Obviously Curry would be almost as fantastic of a get as Durant (better fit as a co-star but less likely to be able to mentor Victor), but Durant's story offers many more lessons, though if Wemby has an injury arc in his future, Steph's experiences might be invaluable.

I think Durant's antics have given people the impression that he's a bad personality on a team or in a locker room. Everything I've heard about folks who actually interact with Durant suggest he's actually pretty cool, and when he's talking and not posting under a fake account, he seems quite deliberate and aware.

It's a really intriguing idea, and is like your Jimmy Butler suggestion on steroids. He's being paid $49.8MM and $53.2MM for Years 24-25 and 25-26 respectively. He'll be 37 when his contract is up in 25-26. I'd absolutely bring him in at that point for what should be a fraction of what he was making. Wemby would be 22, and the mentor window would, I'd think, still be open.

The Suns are in a danger-zone standings wise - currently 6th and set to play Denver in the first round. I'd imagine they'd get absolutely smoked. They're a game behind NOLA for the 5th seed and a half game behind Sacramento for the 7th seed and the play in. All of which is to say that I think it probable that the suns don't make it out of the first round. My recollection is that they are still a second-apron team post-deadline. KD will be 36 next year. I don't think they'd trade away their 1B who's been great and relatively healthy this year -- but man, you'd think they'd have some conversations about it.

[KobesAchilles]

It's a really intriguing idea, and is like your Jimmy Butler suggestion on steroids. He's being paid $49.8MM and $53.2MM for Years 24-25 and 25-26 respectively. He'll be 37 when his contract is up in 25-26. I'd absolutely bring him in at that point for what should be a fraction of what he was making. Wemby would be 22, and the mentor window would, I'd think, still be open.

The Suns are in a danger-zone standings wise - currently 6th and set to play Denver in the first round. I'd imagine they'd get absolutely smoked. They're a game behind NOLA for the 5th seed and a half game behind Sacramento for the 7th seed and the play in. All of which is to say that I think it probable that the suns don't make it out of the first round. My recollection is that they are still a second-apron team post-deadline. KD will be 36 next year. I don't think they'd trade away their 1B who's been great and relatively healthy this year -- but man, you'd think they'd have some conversations about it.
Tough to say about the Suns bc I think Denver is going to finish as the 1 seed. If the Suns stay 6th that might actually be the best spot for them. They avoid the Lakers and Warriors. They face the baby Thunder and an unproven Wolves team in the second round. I think they’d be favored in each match up

As far as Durant goes he solves the issue of our SF and I think would guarantee the Spurs pick Topic with their own pick. With both Wemby and Durant we don’t need a ball dominant guard but rather one who can set up teammates and play pick n roll effectively as a passer. But idk even know the package the Spurs would have to give up to get Durant tbh

[DrSteffo]

He is only saying the right thing. He is a smart kid and I do hope that they talk to him about their plans and why they do this or that. It would be a different thing if we never won a title.

[Jordan Jackson]

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Btw, some shit reporting by Ramona Shelburne here, who I hold (held?) in higher regard. Yeah the generational prospect doesn't want to be bottom of the standings for his career - shocker! :rolleyes

She’s kind of awful actually and typical behavior. Ramona pushed the “my injury was 100x worse”. She asked the question took the quote out of context and went on tv with it.

[MultiTroll]

yes with Timmy Duncs and David Robinson around the campus we need to have Durbeta come in to *mentor*.

Facepalm.

[poopbox]

That's definitely the question. I think Durant is worth more than Young, but the Spurs can't justify paying more for him given his age, health and the fact that he hasn't been to the Finals since 2019. He'd be a fantastic mentor/sage, but the league would have to recalibrate to value him in that role rather than as a franchise player. The Suns in particular may not be at that point. It's a shame, because joining the Spurs and boosting Wemby to a ring is probably the best redemption arc he could have at this point. Even returning to OKC would be sort of tainted given how good they are already. That extension he signed with Brooklyn a couple of years ago might've been a mistake for his legacy, all things considered. But I guess that's par for the course.

Ishibia would commit Seppuku before he traded Durant after everything he gave up to put that team together.

[tmtcsc]

what an imbecile take... shit show ? what shit show ? Spurs number one pick is healthy, improved his game tremendously, gonna be ROTY, already putting historical number and cherry on the cake the season will ensure a high draft pick.

what would be a good season ? a 35 wins ? barely missing the POs ? no draft pick ? that would a no shit show ? smh...

The shit show has everything to do with the team getting the #1 pick (a generational talent) and NOT surrounding him with competent players that could contribute. I’m not talking All-Star caliber players, just solid players who know how to play the game. The current guys on the roster have no desire to defend and they can’t shoot. They look like a bad G League team with little discipline or court awareness. That falls on the coach. For much of the season he just sat back & coddled the players, treating them like spoiled grandchildren.

He’s squawking a little bit now but the damage is done. 13 wins? That’s abysmal.

[mo7888]

The shit show has everything to do with the team getting the #1 pick (a generational talent) and NOT surrounding him with competent players that could contribute. I’m not talking All-Star caliber players, just solid players who know how to play the game. The current guys on the roster have no desire to defend and they can’t shoot. They look like a bad G League team with little discipline or court awareness. That falls on the coach. For much of the season he just sat back & coddled the players, treating them like spoiled grandchildren.

He’s squawking a little bit now but the damage is done. 13 wins? That’s abysmal.

So you'd rather finish with 35 wins...go no where...and have a mid draft pick...

Got it..

[itzsoweezee]

So you'd rather finish with 35 wins...go no where...and have a mid draft pick...

Got it..

This draft is loaded with role players. All this losing and the spurs will be getting a mid-type pick anyway, while also being a laughing stock saved only by Detroit’s even higher level of incompetence.

Nothing indicates the people running this team know how to win basketball games. They got the best rookie since LeBron and are even worse than last year. None of their players improved from last yea. So yes, a failure in every aspect. There is absolutely no reason to believe this will be a 20 win team next year under the status quo except that wemby is that good. Quite an accomplishment.

[Atl Spur]

This draft is loaded with role players. All this losing and the spurs will be getting a mid-type pick anyway, while also being a laughing stock saved only by Detroit’s even higher level of incompetence.

Nothing indicates the people running this team know how to win basketball games. They got the best rookie since LeBron and are even worse than last year. None of their players improved from last yea. So yes, a failure in every aspect. There is absolutely no reason to believe this will be a 20 win team next year under the status quo except that wemby is that good. Quite an accomplishment.

You are being super short sighted……. Feel how you must but there is no denying this organization knows how to build a winner! Be patient and enjoy the process.

[Brazil]

The shit show has everything to do with the team getting the #1 pick (a generational talent) and NOT surrounding him with competent players that could contribute. I’m not talking All-Star caliber players, just solid players who know how to play the game. The current guys on the roster have no desire to defend and they can’t shoot. They look like a bad G League team with little discipline or court awareness. That falls on the coach. For much of the season he just sat back & coddled the players, treating them like spoiled grandchildren.

He’s squawking a little bit now but the damage is done. 13 wins? That’s abysmal.

Who gives a shit about 13 wins vs. 30, what would it change except not getting a high draft pick ?

When are you gonna give credit to Pop and FO for Victor physical evolution ? for his must improved game ? to welcome in a franchise full of picks and cap space ? Victor does not like losing but he will get ROTY and should be 1st defensive team and having a tremendous usage rate. Priority for Spurs was doing all for Victor and again it is so far a tremendous success. He is palying around 30 mpg which is good for his health and adaptation, anybody who has a functionning brain understand he is not yet capable of 40 mpg, during this 30 mpg he is enjoying a huge usage rate for a rookie.

This year was probably the first time you watched a full game of Victor, everybody knew about his potential but people that are following him for a while could not have imagined him reaching this level of play in such short period of time, that is the work of the coaching staff and this includes Pop.

You don't progress getting an easy life, surronding him already with vets, a very good pg... would have been potentially detrimental to his evolution.

Now is everything perfect, of course not but calling this season of shit show is an imbecile take.

:cry 13 wins
:cry we could miss the POs with 30 wins instead

[daslicer]

I'm not going to worry what happens with Victor and the Spurs down the line. There will always be a push and a bunch of rumors by the media for Victor to be out of San Antonio. I'm just going to ignore them. There is no point of sweating about it. If Victor leaves, he leaves. I'm not going to think about it for the next several years. We'll see how this goes for the Spurs in the next few years.

[tmtcsc]

Who gives a shit about 13 wins vs. 30, what would it change except not getting a high draft pick ?

When are you gonna give credit to Pop and FO for Victor physical evolution ? for his must improved game ? to welcome in a franchise full of picks and cap space ? Victor does not like losing but he will get ROTY and should be 1st defensive team and having a tremendous usage rate. Priority for Spurs was doing all for Victor and again it is so far a tremendous success. He is palying around 30 mpg which is good for his health and adaptation, anybody who has a functionning brain understand he is not yet capable of 40 mpg, during this 30 mpg he is enjoying a huge usage rate for a rookie.

This year was probably the first time you watched a full game of Victor, everybody knew about his potential but people that are following him for a while could not have imagined him reaching this level of play in such short period of time, that is the work of the coaching staff and this includes Pop.

You don't progress getting an easy life, surronding him already with vets, a very good pg... would have been potentially detrimental to his evolution.

Now is everything perfect, of course not but calling this season of shit show is an imbecile take.

:cry 13 wins
:cry we could miss the POs with 30 wins instead

The imbecile take and short-sightedness is all yours. Throw in gullible and naive too. There's no tremendous success going on here. If the Spurs looked as bad as they do and still won 30 games this season, would you see that as progress? Bad is bad.

In 1989 the Spurs traded away their lone All-Star to get Terry Cummings. A tried and proven Power Forward with toughness. They also traded for Maurice Cheeks and David Wingate to ensure competent guard play. Because of their shitty record, they snagged Sean Elliott with the 3rd pick. Later that season they picked up veteran bench players like (Caldwell Jones) to push David in practice. In all, I think they moved on from 8 or 9 players.

The result? 35 additional wins from the previous season and a GREAT playoff drive that ended in 7 games to the eventual Western Conference champs. David Robinson earned ROTY that season but was far from a complete player. He hadn’t played competitive basketball in 2 years. Can you imagine the Spurs saying “We are going to see what we have in David before we make roster moves”? Hell no.

OKC tanked and traded pieces the last few years. There’s no certainty it will lead to playoff success. What team has ever followed that path and won championships? After picking up Josh Primo at #11 instead of Sengun & picking Devin Vassell instead of Tyrese Haliburton, I’ve lost trust in them doing much of anything right. Our first round picks have been used on players like Luka Samanic, Keldon Johnson, Blake Wesley, Malakai Branham & Jeremy Sochan. The latter they tried to make a Point Forward. I guess they wanted to see what they had in him too.

Yeah - SHIT SHOW and a wasted year with no progress shown in the win column or on the court.

[MultiTroll]

Sochan at PG was purely a shit show and no amount of Sniffing is going to erase that.
100 on Popped.

Moving fwd if he pulls more shit like that (probably) it would behoove Wemby to do something on his own behalf since the Holt Jrs are going to sit like jellyfish.

[scott]

So you'd rather finish with 35 wins...go no where...and have a mid draft pick...

Got it..

I hope we all do realize that the 35 win, “go nowhere”, have a mid draft pick needs to happen eventually (and IMO next season is the right year on the timeline to do it). This will be our “play-in contention” season. It will eventually be a required step, and hopefully when it does happen it will be viewed as that (though undoubtedly we’ll have people clamoring that we should have just tanked for a higher draft pick and that the season was wasted).

That season could have been this year, IMO, but we didn’t build the team in that way, and that’s okay.

This also isn’t a “go nowhere” step, it’s an important step that transitions us from being dogshit (where we are today) and being a playoff team. I’m looking forward to us being on that step next season.

[exstatic]

The imbecile take and short-sightedness is all yours. Throw in gullible and naive too. There's no tremendous success going on here. If the Spurs looked as bad as they do and still won 30 games this season, would you see that as progress? Bad is bad.

In 1989 the Spurs traded away their lone All-Star to get Terry Cummings. A tried and proven Power Forward with toughness. They also traded for Maurice Cheeks and David Wingate to ensure competent guard play. Because of their shitty record, they snagged Sean Elliott with the 3rd pick. Later that season they picked up veteran bench players like (Caldwell Jones) to push David in practice.

The result? 30 additional wins from the previous season and a GREAT playoff drive that ended in 7 games to the eventual Western Conference champs. David Robinson earned ROTY that season but was far from a complete player. He hadn’t played competitive basketball in 2 years. Can you imagine the Spurs saying “We are going to see what we have in David before we make roster moves”? Hell no.

OKC tanked and traded pieces the last few years. There’s no certainty it will lead to playoff success. What team has ever followed that path and won championships? After picking up Josh Primo at #11 instead of Sengun & picking Devin Vassell instead of Tyrese Haliburton, I’ve lost trust in them doing much of anything right. Our first round picks have been used on players like Luka Samanic, Keldon Johnson, Blake Wesley, Malakai Branham & Jeremy Sochan. The latter they tried to make a Point Forward. I guess they wanted to see what they had in him too.

Yeah - SHIT SHOW and a wasted year with no progress shown in the win column or on the court.

It was 35 games improved, and David was also 24 years old, NOT the same situation. Now, roll forward a few years, and tell me what happened? That first year was the peak for that group, and with small cast changes, that group languished as a first or second round out in all but one year for close to a decade, until lightning struck again for us. They didn’t build a contender, they built a playoff tease.

[Rosewood]

The team has been frustrating to watch this year but I’m blown away by how negative some of the posters here are being :lol

[mo7888]

I hope we all do realize that the 35 win, “go nowhere”, have a mid draft pick needs to happen eventually (and IMO next season is the right year on the timeline to do it). This will be our “play-in contention” season. It will eventually be a required step, and hopefully when it does happen it will be viewed as that (though undoubtedly we’ll have people clamoring that we should have just tanked for a higher draft pick and that the season was wasted).

That season could have been this year, IMO, but we didn’t build the team in that way, and that’s okay.

This also isn’t a “go nowhere” step, it’s an important step that transitions us from being dogshit (where we are today) and being a playoff team. I’m looking forward to us being on that step next season.

Sure, but that's not something you do in his rookie year. In our situation, that's something that should happen next year when the highest valued picks we own are not our own.

[scott]

Sure, but that's not something you do in his rookie year. In our situation, that's something that should happen next year when the highest valued picks we own are not our own.

Why are the highest valued picks we own next year not our own? We could easily just tank again and then they would be. I don’t think what picks you have in hand really have much to do with it. We are on Wemby’s timeline now, and that there will most likely need to be that intermediate step where we don’t make or don’t do much in the playoffs and we end up with a meh pick, and it seems like a waste, but it was all an important building block. That could have been this season, but it wasn’t. Now it *should* be next season, despite the glaring incentive (two top prospects in Flagg and Bailey) to tank again. If we didn’t have our own pick next season, then it would see how picks come into play, but this season’s pick versus next season’s pick are all within the Spurs control.

Anyway, the point was just to say that the 35-win, meh-pick, what-was-this-all-for season is coming. For me, it will be the most exciting one we’ve had since 2017-18.

[mo7888]

Why are the highest valued picks we own next year not our own? We could easily just tank again and then they would be. I don’t think what picks you have in hand really have much to do with it. We are on Wemby’s timeline now, and that there will most likely need to be that intermediate step where we don’t make or don’t do much in the playoffs and we end up with a meh pick, and it seems like a waste, but it was all an important building block. That could have been this season, but it wasn’t. Now it *should* be next season, despite the glaring incentive (two top prospects in Flagg and Bailey) to tank again. If we didn’t have our own pick next season, then it would see how picks come into play, but this season’s pick versus next season’s pick are all within the Spurs control.

Anyway, the point was just to say that the 35-win, meh-pick, what-was-this-all-for season is coming. For me, it will be the most exciting one we’ve had since 2017-18.

The incentive of tanking for Flagg and Baily is baked into tne Atlanta pick. I don't think the plan was ever to 'tank' Wemby's first two years. Even if they stick to the 5-year plan (which i think they are about to accelerate), they be adding vets in year two... and yes, next year with 35 wins will be much more exciting from a fan perspective.

[scott]

The incentive of tanking for Flagg and Baily is baked into tne Atlanta pick. I don't think the plan was ever to 'tank' Wemby's first two years. Even if they stick to the 5-year plan (which i think they are about to accelerate), they be adding vets in year two... and yes, next year with 35 wins will be much more exciting from a fan perspective.

IMO, we need to stop viewing the Atlanta picks are shots at Flagg or Bailey. So long as we hold them, Atlanta will do everything in their power to ensure they are are bad as possible (as they should). I think #10 is probably a reasonable ceiling for those picks which of course gets you a veerrrry long shot at a Top-4 pick, but I think it’s a mistake the view the picks that way. Just IMO.

[mo7888]

IMO, we need to stop viewing the Atlanta picks are shots at Flagg or Bailey. So long as we hold them, Atlanta will do everything in their power to ensure they are are bad as possible (as they should). I think #10 is probably a reasonable ceiling for those picks which of course gets you a veerrrry long shot at a Top-4 pick, but I think it’s a mistake the view the picks that way. Just IMO.

I think #10 for the Atlanta pick is about where it will convey as things currently stand, however, a twisted ankle or a disgruntled Trae could easily make ot top 5. It's a game of percentages..

[Raven]

I hope we all do realize that the 35 win, “go nowhere”, have a mid draft pick needs to happen eventually (and IMO next season is the right year on the timeline to do it). This will be our “play-in contention” season. It will eventually be a required step, and hopefully when it does happen it will be viewed as that (though undoubtedly we’ll have people clamoring that we should have just tanked for a higher draft pick and that the season was wasted).

That season could have been this year, IMO, but we didn’t build the team in that way, and that’s okay.

This also isn’t a “go nowhere” step, it’s an important step that transitions us from being dogshit (where we are today) and being a playoff team. I’m looking forward to us being on that step next season.

i honestly don't expect it to be the case, the team currently blows my mind very often, with them finding a way to lose with obvious talent advantage. I believe this team will make a huge leap next year, with the team they have already.

[weebo]

The imbecile take and short-sightedness is all yours. Throw in gullible and naive too. There's no tremendous success going on here. If the Spurs looked as bad as they do and still won 30 games this season, would you see that as progress? Bad is bad.

In 1989 the Spurs traded away their lone All-Star to get Terry Cummings. A tried and proven Power Forward with toughness. They also traded for Maurice Cheeks and David Wingate to ensure competent guard play. Because of their shitty record, they snagged Sean Elliott with the 3rd pick. Later that season they picked up veteran bench players like (Caldwell Jones) to push David in practice. In all, I think they moved on from 8 or 9 players.

The result? 35 additional wins from the previous season and a GREAT playoff drive that ended in 7 games to the eventual Western Conference champs. David Robinson earned ROTY that season but was far from a complete player. He hadn’t played competitive basketball in 2 years. Can you imagine the Spurs saying “We are going to see what we have in David before we make roster moves”? Hell no.

OKC tanked and traded pieces the last few years. There’s no certainty it will lead to playoff success. What team has ever followed that path and won championships? After picking up Josh Primo at #11 instead of Sengun & picking Devin Vassell instead of Tyrese Haliburton, I’ve lost trust in them doing much of anything right. Our first round picks have been used on players like Luka Samanic, Keldon Johnson, Blake Wesley, Malakai Branham & Jeremy Sochan. The latter they tried to make a Point Forward. I guess they wanted to see what they had in him too.

Yeah - SHIT SHOW and a wasted year with no progress shown in the win column or on the court.

If basketball wins and losses hurt you this much. You need a new hobby.

[Pauleta14]

So you'd rather finish with 35 wins...go no where...and have a mid draft pick...

Got it..

Why are you always using extrem absurd arguemnt?

are u just pretending not to understand?

it’s about the personnel, what the spurs see as the core or the futur that dramatically lacks talent…

it’s about all the unnecessary handicaps, the Guinea pig strategy of PATFO acting like it’s been done before when it’s never been done in such an extreme way.

just the absence of veterans says a lot about PATFO’s lack of humility thinking they could do without.

Keep avoiding any nuance and repeating an absurd narrative of it make u feel better but don’t put words in our mouth pls.

[SOMA Spur]

Why are the highest valued picks we own next year not our own? We could easily just tank again and then they would be. I don’t think what picks you have in hand really have much to do with it. We are on Wemby’s timeline now, and that there will most likely need to be that intermediate step where we don’t make or don’t do much in the playoffs and we end up with a meh pick, and it seems like a waste, but it was all an important building block. That could have been this season, but it wasn’t. Now it *should* be next season, despite the glaring incentive (two top prospects in Flagg and Bailey) to tank again. If we didn’t have our own pick next season, then it would see how picks come into play, but this season’s pick versus next season’s pick are all within the Spurs control.

Anyway, the point was just to say that the 35-win, meh-pick, what-was-this-all-for season is coming. For me, it will be the most exciting one we’ve had since 2017-18.

I'm fine with a meh Spurs pick in '25. A meh-pick in '25 (#14-22) is probably the equivalent to a #7-15 pick in '24, considering next years draft is better. I'm sure I'll find someone to get excited about in that range. Plus we'll have other picks to possibly get excited about if we haven't traded them away.

[Pauleta14]

If basketball wins and losses hurt you this much. You need a new hobby.

AGAIN missing the point

this looks like a sketch tbh

[mo7888]

Why are you always using extrem absurd arguemnt?

are u just pretending not to understand?

it’s about the personnel, what the spurs see as the core or the futur that dramatically lacks talent…

it’s about all the unnecessary handicaps, the Guinea pig strategy of PATFO acting like it’s been done before when it’s never been done in such an extreme way.

just the absence of veterans says a lot about PATFO’s lack of humility thinking they could do without.

Keep avoiding any nuance and repeating an absurd narrative of it make u feel better but don’t put words in our mouth pls.

You obviously don't read very much of what I write if you think i 'always' use 'the extreme or absurd argument'.

That's silly..

[Pauleta14]

You obviously don't read very much of what I write if you think i 'always' use 'the extreme or absurd argument'.

That's silly..

Read again what u posted then…

Your arguments was “so you’d rather finish with 35 wins and go nowhere…”

THAT is just an absurd and yes extreme take that ignores any nuances.

I guess you’re excited by the perspective of future core of Tre Jones Sochan amd Vassell… :lol


wow so exciting!!!

[exstatic]

AGAIN missing the point

this looks like a sketch tbh

You’re the one who is missing the point. Putting a sprinkling of vets on this team puts us somewhere between Houston and Dallas, either the high or low side of the play in. Your pick would fall somewhere between 9 and say 15 or 16 if you play in. We’ve done that dance. Our roster is full of those guys. This is literally the last chance to drive our own pick into the top 3-5 for the next 15 years.

[objective]

It was 35 games improved, and David was also 24 years old, NOT the same situation. Now, roll forward a few years, and tell me what happened? That first year was the peak for that group, and with small cast changes, that group languished as a first or second round out in all but one year for close to a decade, until lightning struck again for us. They didn’t build a contender, they built a playoff tease.

The failures of that team in the long run didn't really have anything to do being impatient or acting too soon.

Like, at all.

Off the top of my head, it was injuries, cheap ownership, and bad roster management after the pieces had been put in place.

Willie broke his legs multiple times iirc in his prime years before 30

Cummings tore his knee up before modern medicine, that's how he went from 17 points a game to 3 points. He was only 30 when that knee blew.

McCombs was too cheap to keep Strickland. Strickland didn't even sign like a mega deal, he went to Portland to begin his contract as a backup and wasn't really an everyday starter until his third year.

Being unable to handle Vernon Maxwell a young guy at his craziest and selling his contract

Moving Brickowski for a washed Pressey

Drafted Schintzius who couldn't play. But they moved him for Carr that was great, until he shredded his ankle and became half the player he was

And Robinson missed a playoffs with a broken thumb or other hand injury

If anything, Robinson's career shows that you should take advantage of a star while you have him and he's healthy.

If you don't include his rookie year as an adjustment year, Robinson's "prime window" was only 5 post seasons before the back and foot injuries made him a shadow of his former self. And most players aren't in their prime by year 2 either.

[mo7888]

Read again what u posted then…

Your arguments was “so you’d rather finish with 35 wins and go nowhere…”

THAT is just an absurd and yes extreme take that ignores any nuances.

I guess you’re excited by the perspective of future core of Tre Jones Sochan amd Vassell… :lol


wow so exciting!!!

Talk about absurd takes....

[Pauleta14]

You’re the one who is missing the point. Putting a sprinkling of vets on this team puts us somewhere between Houston and Dallas, either the high or low side of the play in. Your pick would fall somewhere between 9 and say 15 or 16 if you play in. We’ve done that dance. Our roster is full of those guys. This is literally the last chance to drive our own pick into the top 3-5 for the next 15 years.

There are countless ways to soft tank and get the bottom 3-4 seed. Between the weird lineups or fake injuries with min restrictions etc
ur only argument is the 2024 pick that come from a weak draft
you also chose to ignore countless futur draft picks that will bring way more than the 24 pick

in the mean time we’d be developing proper nba players rather than G leaguers.

again most of u choses to oversimplify what a lot of us are saying. It’s never been about being a contender straight away like you keep repeating.

it’s about having the right personnel and not wasting time with the Jones champagnie or Sochan who at best should be on the bench and more realistically in G league

Lastly there isn’t one example in the past of what the Spurs are doing. None

so pls at least stop acting as if ur pov is the truth.

[Pauleta14]

Talk about absurd takes....

What a great argumentation…

i litterally just reminded u what u posted :lol

[TimmyBuckets]

There are countless ways to soft tank and get the bottom 3-4 seed. Between the weird lineups or fake injuries with min restrictions etc
ur only argument is the 2024 pick that come from a weak draft
you also chose to ignore countless futur draft picks that will bring way more than the 24 pick

in the mean time we’d be developing proper nba players rather than G leaguers.

again most of u choses to oversimplify what a lot of us are saying. It’s never been about being a contender straight away like you keep repeating.

it’s about having the right personnel and not wasting time with the Jones champagnie or Sochan who at best should be on the bench and more realistically in G league

Lastly there isn’t one example in the past of what the Spurs are doing. None

so pls at least stop acting as if ur pov is the truth.

Like how? List some of the countless ways to get a top 3 pick without being a bottom 3 team.

[exstatic]

Like how? List some of the countless ways to get a top 3 pick without being a bottom 3 team.

This. We had a 3 year run of finishing #11, #12, #9. We drafted 11th, 12th and 9th. No team higher than 8th has ever jumped into the top 4 since the current odds system was adopted in 2017, and only one team outside the top 4 has ever won the lottery, #7 New Orleans the first year. Yes, it will eventually happen, but why put all of your eggs in that basket?

[Brazil]

The imbecile take and short-sightedness is all yours. Throw in gullible and naive too. There's no tremendous success going on here. If the Spurs looked as bad as they do and still won 30 games this season, would you see that as progress? Bad is bad.

In 1989 the Spurs traded away their lone All-Star to get Terry Cummings. A tried and proven Power Forward with toughness. They also traded for Maurice Cheeks and David Wingate to ensure competent guard play. Because of their shitty record, they snagged Sean Elliott with the 3rd pick. Later that season they picked up veteran bench players like (Caldwell Jones) to push David in practice. In all, I think they moved on from 8 or 9 players.

The result? 35 additional wins from the previous season and a GREAT playoff drive that ended in 7 games to the eventual Western Conference champs. David Robinson earned ROTY that season but was far from a complete player. He hadn’t played competitive basketball in 2 years. Can you imagine the Spurs saying “We are going to see what we have in David before we make roster moves”? Hell no.

OKC tanked and traded pieces the last few years. There’s no certainty it will lead to playoff success. What team has ever followed that path and won championships? After picking up Josh Primo at #11 instead of Sengun & picking Devin Vassell instead of Tyrese Haliburton, I’ve lost trust in them doing much of anything right. Our first round picks have been used on players like Luka Samanic, Keldon Johnson, Blake Wesley, Malakai Branham & Jeremy Sochan. The latter they tried to make a Point Forward. I guess they wanted to see what they had in him too.

Yeah - SHIT SHOW and a wasted year with no progress shown in the win column or on the court.

wall of text full of non sense.. :lol you are comparing a 19 y/o situation with 24 y/o David Robinson who played what 40 mpg ? :lmao oh btw great fucking result with no ring until Tim came to town 10 years later. Absolute failure of a comparison :lmao

[Pauleta14]

Like how? List some of the countless ways to get a top 3 pick without being a bottom 3 team.

Just gave you a couple in the same line…

weird experiments like Sochan PG
weird linups and rotations at key moment of the game
Bs injuries with min restrictions

probably more Im not thinking about rn but that’s already 3 easy ways to soft tank

[Brazil]

Lastly there isn’t one example in the past of what the Spurs are doing. None



Probably because there is no example of a unicorn like Victor.

[exstatic]

Just gave you a couple in the same line…

weird experiments like Sochan PG
weird linups and rotations at key moment of the game
Bs injuries with min restrictions

probably more Im not thinking about rn but that’s already 3 easy ways to soft tank

That’s not a soft tank, it’s a willful hard tank.

[Pauleta14]

They also have countless draft picks that a competent GM should be able to use and 2024 is so weak that it’s not going to bring much and will need years of development

if you still think a 4-5 years plan is fine you’re delusional

[Brazil]

Just gave you a couple in the same line…

weird experiments like Sochan PG
weird linups and rotations at key moment of the game
Bs injuries with min restrictions

probably more Im not thinking about rn but that’s already 3 easy ways to soft tank

:lol so you want a soft tank exactly the way pop is doing but you feel it is missing what ? 5 more wins ? :lol it is missing a capable pg so Victor can add 5 ppg ?

[Pauleta14]

Probably because there is no example of a unicorn like Victor.

??

im talking about the process of developing a 1st draft pick.

There’s never been rookie that had to learn NBA without any veterans to help

there never been a rookie best offensive and defensive player of his team (even if Wemby is spécial there has been others in the past)

again I’m not against the process I’m against the radical and pretentious way it’s been done.

[Pauleta14]

:lol so you want a soft tank exactly the way pop is doing but you feel it is missing what ? 5 more wins ? :lol it is missing a capable pg so Victor can add 5 ppg ?

Come on mate at least try to follow so i don’t have to repeat all the time…^^

I don’t like the personnel the dev is being done with/to. I don’t see what bringing a Brogdon or Jones would’ve hurt our draft picks but it’s have allow spurs and Victor to gain a lot of time on the process.

this is by very far the least talented roster I’ve ever seen. There’s very little potential, no shooting no playmaking …

it’s so unnecessary and slows down the process way too much

Do you realise PATFO sera most of this team as the core of the futur spurs??

it’s insane

[tmtcsc]

If basketball wins and losses hurt you this much. You need a new hobby.

the fuck you on about? 🤣. What hobby? Ive been a Spurs fan for years, this isnt a hobby. I went through years of watching this team lose, tease, win tremendously and now lose again. If reading hurts so much, you need a new hobby.

[Brazil]

??

im talking about the process of developing a 1st draft pick.

There’s never been rookie that had to learn NBA without any veterans to help

there never been a rookie best offensive and defensive player of his team (even if Wemby is spécial there has been others in the past)

again I’m not against the process I’m against the radical and pretentious way it’s been done.

again process of developing a first round pick is probably not adapted because he is such unique prospect. Do you remember a first round pick where we not sure what position or style of play is more adapted ? Pop let him figure out during 3 months, what franchise would have given him this luxury ? Veterans are nice and all but with no veterans Victor enjoyed 35% usage rate and freedom. You can discuss what it is best for the franchise but for Victor development this season could not have been better

[Brazil]

Come on mate at least try to follow so i don’t have to repeat all the time…^^

I don’t like the personnel the dev is being done with/to. I don’t see what bringing a Brogdon or Jones would’ve hurt our draft picks but it’s have allow spurs and Victor to gain a lot of time on the process.

this is by very far the least talented roster I’ve ever seen. There’s very little potential, no shooting no playmaking …

it’s so unnecessary and slows down the process way too much

Do you realise PATFO sera most of this team as the core of the futur spurs??

it’s insane

who said they will be most of this team core in the future ? The only other starter is Vassell and he is the only one with a significant contract, Kelton Jeremy can be role players, you have a back up pg and some folders. Not sure what are your expectations for being able to win a first ring but Spurs have cap space, draft picks and time. I don’t get all the bitching about this season especially not from a Victor fan perspective

[Pauleta14]

again process of developing a first round pick is probably not adapted because he is such unique prospect. Do you remember a first round pick where we not sure what position or style of play is more adapted ? Pop let him figure out during 3 months, what franchise would have given him this luxury ? Veterans are nice and all but with no veterans Victor enjoyed 35% usage rate and freedom. You can discuss what it is best for the franchise but for Victor development this season could not have been better

I agree with the points u make bud. So I assume ur missing mine ;)

what prevented the spurs to do the same process all while preparing the future roster?

With the roster we have there are too many players to change and preparing last summer with a short term (2-3y) PG or vet would’ve been perfectly doable.

what “bothers” me (it’s just bb lol) is the poorness of the roster. The best player after Wemby (Vassell) is quite poor and as much handicaped as Wemby by the absence of a few vets and playmakers.
the rest has nothing to do starting in NBA

I know a lot of u are fond of Sochan, I’ve been waiting and watching and I still don’t get it. Whatever he brings on D is more than cancelled by his offense and inability to shoot.

anytime Sochan is on the floor it’s a green light for opp coaches to double team Wemby!

Anyways we’ll see, I’ll gladly admit if I’m wrong but this roster sucks so much it’s absurd.

[tmtcsc]

wall of text full of non sense.. :lol you are comparing a 19 y/o situation with 24 y/o David Robinson who played what 40 mpg ? :lmao oh btw great fucking result with no ring until Tim came to town 10 years later. Absolute failure of a comparison :lmao

How old are you? Let me guess, mid-20’s. You didn’t watch David Robinson play. He was an absolute stud his rookie year with stats and impact comparable to what Victor has done this season. But you’re right, David was 24 years old - not 19. Way to make my point for me while typing your giggling emojis. The reason the Spurs didn’t win a Championship for 10 years had little to do with David Robinson & everything to do with boneheaded decisions by Bob Bass (letting Rod Strickland walk in free agency w/o getting anything in return & turning down a trade for Charles Barkley are just 2 examples).

The Spurs should have prioritized surrounding a 19 year old Victor with better talent and vets. Wemby did his part. He showed up with a positive attitude, with a willingness to work & most importantly, a desire to WIN. The Spurs did next to nothing. That’s why Victor should feel cheated.

[mo7888]

What a great argumentation…

i litterally just reminded u what u posted :lol

And you literally think that's the part i was referring to lol

[tmtcsc]

I agree with the points u make bud. So I assume ur missing mine ;)

what prevented the spurs to do the same process all while preparing the future roster?

With the roster we have there are too many players to change and preparing last summer with a short term (2-3y) PG or vet would’ve been perfectly doable.

what “bothers” me (it’s just bb lol) is the poorness of the roster. The best player after Wemby (Vassell) is quite poor and as much handicaped as Wemby by the absence of a few vets and playmakers.
the rest has nothing to do starting in NBA

I know a lot of u are fond of Sochan, I’ve been waiting and watching and I still don’t get it. Whatever he brings on D is more than cancelled by his offense and inability to shoot.

anytime Sochan is on the floor it’s a green light for opp coaches to double team Wemby!

Anyways we’ll see, I’ll gladly admit if I’m wrong but this roster sucks so much it’s absurd.

You get it. The younger fans fall in love with the new guys whether its justified or not. There is one legit player on this team and it’s Wemby. Everyone else is expendable and easily replaced.

[Brazil]

I agree with the points u make bud. So I assume ur missing mine ;)

what prevented the spurs to do the same process all while preparing the future roster?

With the roster we have there are too many players to change and preparing last summer with a short term (2-3y) PG or vet would’ve been perfectly doable.

what “bothers” me (it’s just bb lol) is the poorness of the roster. The best player after Wemby (Vassell) is quite poor and as much handicaped as Wemby by the absence of a few vets and playmakers.
the rest has nothing to do starting in NBA

I know a lot of u are fond of Sochan, I’ve been waiting and watching and I still don’t get it. Whatever he brings on D is more than cancelled by his offense and inability to shoot.

anytime Sochan is on the floor it’s a green light for opp coaches to double team Wemby!

Anyways we’ll see, I’ll gladly admit if I’m wrong but this roster sucks so much it’s absurd.

I don’t see what spurs could have done differently while preparing the future roster, spurs did not make any major moves that would jeopardize the future. They picked Vassell, he is no Tyrese but 10 other teams passed on him (:lol Detroit Haynes), he is a solid pick and spurs did right offering him his contract. I have my reservation about sochan but if nothing else he will be a solid role player, Keldon is solid for 29th pick, tre is a capable back up pg, Collins is fine off the bench…

Biggest spurs assets are picks, cap space and Victor and some ok players. This season is great. Now victor does not like losing at all, spurs probably need to speed up their initial plans but they wanted to know what they have in their hands before committing now they know

[Brazil]

How old are you? Let me guess, mid-20’s. You didn’t watch David Robinson play. He was an absolute stud his rookie year with stats and impact comparable to what Victor has done this season. But you’re right, David was 24 years old - not 19. Way to make my point for me while typing your giggling emojis. The reason the Spurs didn’t win a Championship for 10 years had little to do with David Robinson & everything to do with boneheaded decisions by Bob Bass (letting Rod Strickland walk in free agency w/o getting anything in return & turning down a trade for Charles Barkley are just 2 examples).

The Spurs should have prioritized surrounding a 19 year old Victor with better talent and vets. Wemby did his part. He showed up with a positive attitude, with a willingness to work & most importantly, a desire to WIN. The Spurs did next to nothing. That’s why Victor should feel cheated.

if you read what I wrote as a diss to David I’m not sure what I can tell you :lol
better talents and vets to do what ? Barely miss the POs while giving up future flexibility and picks ? I see the big picture and you don’t that’s about it.

as for my age you are slightly off I started rooting for the Spurs because of David, most under appreciated players of all time

[Pauleta14]

I don’t see what spurs could have done differently while preparing the future roster, spurs did not make any major moves that would jeopardize the future. They picked Vassell, he is no Tyrese but 10 other teams passed on him (:lol Detroit Haynes), he is a solid pick and spurs did right offering him his contract. I have my reservation about sochan but if nothing else he will be a solid role player, Keldon is solid for 29th pick, tre is a capable back up pg, Collins is fine off the bench…

Biggest spurs assets are picks, cap space and Victor and some ok players. This season is great. Now victor does not like losing at all, spurs probably need to speed up their initial plans but they wanted to know what they have in their hands before committing now they know

What about for ex going for Brogdon or Lyle Jones? Cheap and experienced who would’ve brought a lot to Wemby and Vassell. + we’ll have to get a proper PG anyways, why not go for a cheaper and shirt term efficient solution rather than a more risky more expensive solution like Trae?
we’d have vet/decent PG and we’d keep our 25 picks AND focus on other positions like wings shooters and bigs all while waiting for either the dev of a drafted PG or better opportunity on the market than Trae …
As u said biggest Spurs assets are picks, but if we’re going for a top PG it’ll cost our best picks!

One more reason to go for an intermediate solution, who I know has its risks (Brogdon is fragile) but gives us not only the leadership playmaking we need but allow us to keep our best picks in 25

also we’ll have to disagree on “Collins is fine off the bench…” :lol

[Pauleta14]

You get it. The younger fans fall in love with the new guys whether its justified or not. There is one legit player on this team and it’s Wemby. Everyone else is expendable and easily replaced.

Not sure it’s the younger fans, most popologists are vets on ST

But I do think indeed that fans tends to get too quick emotionally attached to players/personalities and often take a lot of time to open their eyes.

Lastly the “Pop factor” is super strong as much on the fanbase than most medias. Almost a taboo to dare question the genius of PATFO :lol they use impressive brain gymnastics to justify whatever they do…

[weebo]

Shit son you don't see me or others whining about what some basketball player will or won't do in five years from now. Y'all have been crying since the beginning of the season because of whatever reason. Kawhi must have really done a number and some of you gals. :lol

[Pauleta14]

I remember both of u Brazil and tmtcsc from way back, we're probably about the same age :lol

[objective]

I'll add even more context for the Prime Robinson era being derailed by injuries, cheapness, and bad decisions after everything was in place.

That 93 series against the Suns ... No lie I think the Spurs come back and win that series if Antoine Carr doesn't shred his ankle in game 4. He was averaging like 16 and 8 that series and had to be replaced by JR Reid. Not that Reid was the worst ever in that series, but they needed Carr

Anyways

Spurs really screwed up when listening to Brown and getting Sydney Green and Pressey who were washed, and then the cheapness on Strickland caused a cascade of bad draft picks and trading away picks to catch up when injuries struck and thus they never had the young players to develop and step up.

First round Picks traded for bums, Green, Reid, Smith

Second rounders spent on points who couldn't cut it, Whitney, Knight

The current Spurs blew it with Zollins ... Are they going to have to chase now to make it up? Is Wright looking for more Primos or another Samanic like Buzelis to fail with? Going to try and prove his approach worked and it was bad luck but a good process?

[tmtcsc]

if you read what I wrote as a diss to David I’m not sure what I can tell you :lol
better talents and vets to do what ? Barely miss the POs while giving up future flexibility and picks ? I see the big picture and you don’t that’s about it.

as for my age you are slightly off I started rooting for the Spurs because of David, most under appreciated players of all time

I referenced David because he and Wemby’s stats are almost identical and Wemby is 5 years younger. In 1989 the franchise thought surrounding their NBA-ready, prized rookie with better talent was important. Apparently they didn’t feel the same way about Victor and that’s the most disappointing part.

[The Truth #6]

You can get a vet who doesn't take up minutes. That's what Caldwell Jones was for. I loved Mamu last year but they could have found an old vet on a cheap deal to help manage the locker room.

[onechance87]

You can get a vet who doesn't take up minutes. That's what Caldwell Jones was for. I loved Mamu last year but they could have found an old vet on a cheap deal to help manage the locker room.

its gotta happen this offseason...I dont see any potential with this team to grow together.Alot of these guys have no talent
or iq...One of the worst rosters made.Gotta gut this whole roster.

[Tyronn Lue]

Matt Bonner, Patty Mills, Gary Neal, Dejuan Blair and Jeff Ayres would be a better team than these starters. Let's not pretend they are anything other than bodies on the floor to fulfill the requirement of fielding a team. I am pulling for them, and if the Spurs didn't have a unicorn out of sheer luck, I'd hope to keep a few.

[Atl Spur]

The Spurs are sitting pretty, we must just stay patient. Two or three moves and we will contend again.

[JPB]

The Spurs are sitting pretty, we must just stay patient. Two or three moves and we will contend again.

Ok but what moves and when? you don't make the market or decide when you feel you're ready that the players you need are just there for you to grab...This isn't NBA2K. The league doesn't exist just for you, there's a lot of concurrence and others teams are working hard too. Never believe you're smarter than the mass or everything will just naturally go your way just out of patience... Being opportunistic or audacious can pay too sometimes, and better.

What we got with the Big 3 was extremely rare and can't be duplicated. We shouldn't consider we're gonna just find our new TP and Manu just like that if we wait enough and rule the NBA for the next decade...

[exstatic]

Ok but what moves and when? you don't make the market or decide when you feel you're ready that the players you need are just there for you to grab...This isn't NBA2K. The league doesn't exist just for you, there's a lot of concurrence and others teams are working hard too. Never believe you're smarter than the mass or everything will just naturally go your way just out of patience... Being opportunistic or audacious can pay too sometimes, and better.

What we got with the Big 3 was extremely rare and can't be duplicated. We shouldn't consider we're gonna just find our new TP and Manu just like that if we wait enough and rule the NBA for the next decade...

Manu came on board 6 years after Tim was drafted, Tony 4 years.

[Brazil]

I referenced David because he and Wemby’s stats are almost identical and Wemby is 5 years younger. In 1989 the franchise thought surrounding their NBA-ready, prized rookie with better talent was important. Apparently they didn’t feel the same way about Victor and that’s the most disappointing part.

I understand what you are saying but Spurs knew what they had with David, there was no question about style of play or positioning. In Victor case we even have threads on this board saying he should play on the perimeter and becoming a taller version of Kevin Durant or even why not a taller Magic...
Besides David was already a grown ass man with not so many questions around his health, longivity etc... like in Victor case.

Victor can show his frustration regarding losing but at the same time, his integration and evolution as a player have been off the chart. I watched a lot of Victor before he joined the Spurs there is no way I could have predicted what Victor achieved in the months of January and February... only thing I was not too far off is points and rebounds but his passing is something else, I was way off on the block and steal department also, finally we all expected a defensive force but being with no question at a minimum the second best defender of the league ? :lol no way.

We can give FO tons of crap but letting him do what he wants in the beginning and helping him improve so much is worthy of praise. He maybe could have achieved that with a more robust and sound roster maybe not. At the end 10 or 15 more wins don't matter and you lose a chance to high pick draft. This draft sucks for sure, one more reason to draft as high as possible.

[Brazil]

Matt Bonner, Patty Mills, Gary Neal, Dejuan Blair and Jeff Ayres would be a better team than these starters. Let's not pretend they are anything other than bodies on the floor to fulfill the requirement of fielding a team. I am pulling for them, and if the Spurs didn't have a unicorn out of sheer luck, I'd hope to keep a few.

:lol what ? now you're tripping

No question about Patty, Bonner shooting is missing but neal, blair and Jeff :lol

[ginobilized]

Do y'all think that Wemby's timeline is a factor in the Spurs rebuild?
Of course it's well known that PATFO don't skip steps.
It's also well known that players in the 7'2" and above range have shorter careers, historically.
These two factors seem at odds with each other.

[sfernald]

Tough to say about the Suns bc I think Denver is going to finish as the 1 seed. If the Suns stay 6th that might actually be the best spot for them. They avoid the Lakers and Warriors. They face the baby Thunder and an unproven Wolves team in the second round. I think they’d be favored in each match up

As far as Durant goes he solves the issue of our SF and I think would guarantee the Spurs pick Topic with their own pick. With both Wemby and Durant we don’t need a ball dominant guard but rather one who can set up teammates and play pick n roll effectively as a passer. But idk even know the package the Spurs would have to give up to get Durant tbh

Durant would be absolutely ideal for this team but I don’t think it’s a realistic get right now. Maybe next summer but I doubt they mess with their big three after just one mostly unhealthy season. But you know who might be a realistic get? Durant lite over at NO, Brandon Ingram. I think he would be a perfect fit with Wemby and I think there’s a good chance NO gets eliminated in the first round. If they do, I expect they will trade one of the big two Ingram or Zion because they need to reset their cap issues a bit. There’s been rumblings of that happening for over a year but if they disappoint in the playoffs this year I expect it to become a reality this offseason.

[KobesAchilles]

Durant would be absolutely ideal for this team but I don’t think it’s a realistic get right now. Maybe next summer but I doubt they mess with their big three after just one mostly unhealthy season. But you know who might be a realistic get? Durant lite over at NO, Brandon Ingram. I think he would be a perfect fit with Wemby and I think there’s a good chance NO gets eliminated in the first round. If they do, I expect they will trade one of the big two Ingram or Zion because they need to reset their cap issues a bit. There’s been rumblings of that happening for over a year but if they disappoint in the playoffs this year I expect it to become a reality this offseason.
Doesn't Ingram only have one year left on his contract? We would have to trade for him and then immediately give him a new contract. I think in this case he would have to demand out or indicate that he won't re-sign with the Pels for them to trade him. It would be nice though to be able to sign him outright once he hits free agency, but I don't know the Pels future plans well enough to guess if they believe he is the cornerstone. I think getting rid of CJ would be better for them than Ingram

[sfernald]

Doesn't Ingram only have one year left on his contract? We would have to trade for him and then immediately give him a new contract. I think in this case he would have to demand out or indicate that he won't re-sign with the Pels for them to trade him. It would be nice though to be able to sign him outright once he hits free agency, but I don't know the Pels future plans well enough to guess if they believe he is the cornerstone. I think getting rid of CJ would be better for them than Ingram

I sort of agree but I think that CJ would be a tough trade, in fact he might be a negative contract. He’s getting up there in age and his performance is so so but he costs a lot. I think they might want to get rid of Zion more than Ingram too but again he’s a bit of a tough trade with his injury history. So I’m not sure but I expect they will be talking to teams this offseason so they will listen to offers.z

[sfernald]

Not even first season over and this is the shit I have to see on my time line…

https://news4sanantonio.com/amp/news/local/is-victor-wembanyama-going-to-force-his-way-out-of-san-antonio-spurs-dak-prescott-cowboys-dallas-texas-world-series-rangers

[Tyronn Lue]

:lol what ? now you're tripping

No question about Patty, Bonner shooting is missing but neal, blair and Jeff :lol
Prime Blair was a rebound/foul machine!

Honestly I cannot see them being much worse than this team, but the team wasn't that bad last night (or SAC played down to them).

[TD 21]

Impact of KAT’s injury + Celtics crunch-time issues + Ben Simmons OUT for the season | The Lowe Post (youtube.com) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pbm4wGosAEE&list=PLu1neCd4swuYczHZQs9u-LOCgY2MnMvys)

1:06:03

Lowe -- Minny's ceiling without KAT, Boston's true strength and Wemby's arrival - ESPN (https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/39671182/lowe-minny-ceiling-kat-boston-true-strength-wemby-arrival)

[Seventyniner]

Impact of KAT’s injury + Celtics crunch-time issues + Ben Simmons OUT for the season | The Lowe Post (youtube.com) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pbm4wGosAEE&list=PLu1neCd4swuYczHZQs9u-LOCgY2MnMvys)

1:06:03

Lowe -- Minny's ceiling without KAT, Boston's true strength and Wemby's arrival - ESPN (https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/39671182/lowe-minny-ceiling-kat-boston-true-strength-wemby-arrival)

Thanks for posting these. The article has some great points.


He's starting to draw regular double-teams in the post. He is approaching one point per possession directly out of isolation plays -- the break-even point where they become an acceptable part of an offense -- since Dec. 27. Before that, he averaged 0.64 points -- one of the worst marks in the league, per Second Spectrum.

Victor turned a corner in late December; on December 27 the Spurs had played 29 games. Tre Jones was put into the starting lineup on January 4, the Spurs' 34th game. A lot of people here seem to look at just the Spurs' record and conclude that this team is no better than last year's, but that ignores just how bad the team was before Tre Jones was a starter.



SEASON
SCORED
ALLOWED
DIFF/GAME
EXP WIN %
EXP RECORD (82 GAMES)
ACTUAL RECORD


2023-2024 (first 33 games)
3661
4053
-11.9
19%
6-27 (16-66)
5-28


2023-2024 (last 30 games)
3422
3531
-3.6
39%
12-18 (32-50)
8-22


2023-2024 (all)
7083
7584
-8.0
28%
18-45 (23-59)
13-50


2022-2023
9269
10092
-10.0
23%
19-63 (19-63)
22-60


Those first two rows are night and day. The Spurs with Tre Jones as a starter are much better than last year's team, and much much better than this year's team with Tre coming off the bench.

Point differential and expected record are far better predictors of the future than actual record. Last year's team overachieved when it came to actual record, while the better version of this year's team (last 30 games) has significantly underachieved. That comes from losing lots of close games.

And before all the "our team sucks cause they can't win close games" chatter starts, performance in close games is very volatile from year to year and is an even worse predictor of the future than overall wins and losses.

[CGD]

It’s funny, on Lowes recent podcast he was doing some damage control for Windhorst’s take. It was clear someone got to ESPN on this sprawling narrative, which I’m sure now has people making up fake trades and other such nonsense.

[scott]

Thanks for posting these. The article has some great points.



Victor turned a corner in late December; on December 27 the Spurs had played 29 games. Tre Jones was put into the starting lineup on January 4, the Spurs' 34th game. A lot of people here seem to look at just the Spurs' record and conclude that this team is no better than last year's, but that ignores just how bad the team was before Tre Jones was a starter.



SEASON
SCORED
ALLOWED
DIFF/GAME
EXP WIN %
EXP RECORD (82 GAMES)
ACTUAL RECORD


2023-2024 (first 33 games)
3661
4053
-11.9
19%
6-27 (16-66)
5-28


2023-2024 (last 30 games)
3422
3531
-3.6
39%
12-18 (32-50)
8-22


2023-2024 (all)
7083
7584
-8.0
28%
18-45 (23-59)
13-50


2022-2023
9269
10092
-10.0
23%
19-63 (19-63)
22-60


Those first two rows are night and day. The Spurs with Tre Jones as a starter are much better than last year's team, and much much better than this year's team with Tre coming off the bench.

Point differential and expected record are far better predictors of the future than actual record. Last year's team overachieved when it came to actual record, while the better version of this year's team (last 30 games) has significantly underachieved. That comes from losing lots of close games.

And before all the "our team sucks cause they can't win close games" chatter starts, performance in close games is very volatile from year to year and is an even worse predictor of the future than overall wins and losses.

Great slices and looks at the data - thanks for posting!

I liked this section from the Lowe article, especially the last bolded piece:


The Spurs have the cap flexibility and draft assets -- a bounty of extra first-round picks and swaps, including the possibility of a second top-10 pick this season from the Toronto Raptors (https://www.espn.com/nba/team/_/name/tor/toronto-raptors) -- to do just about anything around Wembanyama. They can be aggressive and calculated at once -- upgrading step by step without torching the future.

The Spurs can be quite aggressive this offseason while not going "all-in" (as some posters make it seem). We have enough assets to make a big move without leveraging our future, and this is what this FO deserves a lot of credit for (perhaps more than anything else as of late). Let's see how they execute the amazing position they've put us in.

[MannyIsGod]

Your last sentance is the important part. The Spurs have a lot of draft assets. You can build through those over time, but IMO that's not an optimal course with Wemby. They should be smart and seek to improve via trade with some of those assets while not emptying the cupboard. Cashing in draft assets doesn't mean you can't make moves later on either. Whatever they would bring back in a trade should have value later on as well. I just don't get the view that the Spurs should not do this and seek to use every one of those picks.

[scott]

Your last sentance is the important part. The Spurs have a lot of draft assets. You can build through those over time, but IMO that's not an optimal course with Wemby. They should be smart and seek to improve via trade with some of those assets while not emptying the cupboard. Cashing in draft assets doesn't mean you can't make moves later on either. Whatever they would bring back in a trade should have value later on as well. I just don't get the view that the Spurs should not do this and seek to use every one of those picks.

Not to mention that using all of the picks is simply not feasible unless you're willing to cut the cord on players who aren't working after one or two seasons (which isn't really the Spurs MO, nor is it what folks on this board like to do either)

[TVI]

Thanks for posting these. The article has some great points.
Victor turned a corner in late December; on December 27 the Spurs had played 29 games. Tre Jones was put into the starting lineup on January 4, the Spurs' 34th game. A lot of people here seem to look at just the Spurs' record and conclude that this team is no better than last year's, but that ignores just how bad the team was before Tre Jones was a starter.



SEASON
SCORED
ALLOWED
DIFF/GAME
EXP WIN %
EXP RECORD (82 GAMES)
ACTUAL RECORD


2023-2024 (first 33 games)
3661
4053
-11.9
19%
6-27 (16-66)
5-28


2023-2024 (last 30 games)
3422
3531
-3.6
39%
12-18 (32-50)
8-22


2023-2024 (all)
7083
7584
-8.0
28%
18-45 (23-59)
13-50


2022-2023
9269
10092
-10.0
23%
19-63 (19-63)
22-60


Those first two rows are night and day. The Spurs with Tre Jones as a starter are much better than last year's team, and much much better than this year's team with Tre coming off the bench.

Point differential and expected record are far better predictors of the future than actual record. Last year's team overachieved when it came to actual record, while the better version of this year's team (last 30 games) has significantly underachieved. That comes from losing lots of close games.

And before all the "our team sucks cause they can't win close games" chatter starts, performance in close games is very volatile from year to year and is an even worse predictor of the future than overall wins and losses.

I have been saying this over and over. The Spurs are “in” most of their games. They’re 7-22 in close games, which is the mark of a young team that doesn’t know how to execute in the clutch. That’s not the same as a team getting their ass kicked by 20 every night.

They don’t need to sacrifice their future by giving away all the valuable assets they’ve acquired. They’re very likely getting 2 more top 10 picks this year. After the year Wemby had, his gravity will make it easier to find some reasonably priced vets who can bring maturity to the court, and teach the younger players how to win those close games.

By this time next year, the conversation will be very different.

[exstatic]

I have been saying this over and over. The Spurs are “in” most of their games. They’re 7-22 in close games, which is the mark of a young team that doesn’t know how to execute in the clutch. That’s not the same as a team getting their ass kicked by 20 every night.

They don’t need to sacrifice their future by giving away all the valuable assets they’ve acquired. They’re very likely getting 2 more top 10 picks this year. After the year Wemby had, his gravity will make it easier to find some reasonably priced vets who can bring maturity to the court, and teach the younger players how to win those close games.

By this time next year, the conversation will be very different.

No it won’t. When we’re a play in team, they’ll bitch that we’re not a playoff team. When we’re a playoff team, they’ll bitch that we’re not a top seed. When we’re a top seed they’ll bitch that we’re not a champion. When we’re a champion, they’ll bitch that we’re not back to back. When we’re back to back, they’ll bitch that we’re not a three peat.

Seeing a pattern?

[TVI]

No it won’t. When we’re a play in team, they’ll bitch that we’re not a playoff team. When we’re a playoff team, they’ll bitch that we’re not a top seed. When we’re a top seed they’ll bitch that we’re not a champion. When we’re a champion, they’ll bitch that we’re not back to back. When we’re back to back, they’ll bitch that we’re not a three peat.

Seeing a pattern?

�� Yea, I see your point about the conversations on this forum. I was really implying that these “national” conversations about “Wemby will leave the Spurs” will die down as the team makes the minor adjustments needed to start winning these close games and gets closer to contending for a title.

[TD 21]

The latest agenda driven Spurs hit piece: Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective on Apple Podcasts (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/brian-windhorst-the-hoop-collective/id293376147)

[scott]

The latest agenda driven Spurs hit piece: Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective on Apple Podcasts (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/brian-windhorst-the-hoop-collective/id293376147)

Idk, I found this a pretty good episode that’s fairly spot on with what we’ve been discussing on this board.

[rjv]

The latest agenda driven Spurs hit piece: Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective on Apple Podcasts (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/brian-windhorst-the-hoop-collective/id293376147)

I listened to it this morning and it was crap. Windhorst trying to quiet down the noise that ESPN is pushing a narrative about Wemby while simultaneously pushing that narrative; and Andrew Lopez was lame as well. Windhorst kept repeating that he'd be shocked if the spurs made any trades because SA has never been active with trading draft picks in the past. I just wondered how Bontemps and Lopez up didn't point out that the Spurs have never had such assets at their disposal before and, because of their great success over a 20 year span, also never had to make blockbuster trades. Windhorst just kept repeating that the Spurs are just going to go about building the team based on the OKC model but that this would take too long, and Wemby's comment about "running up the stairs" had GMs and NBA execs gasping and proclaiming that not even LeBron made such bold proclamations when he was a rookie. All Lopez said was that Wemby is far ahead of schedule and this is causing a problem for how the spurs will address building their team. The one thing I got out of it is that Lopez, for being designated the ESPN official Wemby reporter, doesn't have any insight. Mike Finger probably has more internal knowledge. They were a little more accurate when discussing who, besides Vassell, is a viable candidate to being a long-term teammate of Wemby's.

[TD 21]

Idk, I found this a pretty good episode that’s fairly spot on with what we’ve been discussing on this board.

Maybe you haven't heard much of these clowns act, but Bontempts in particular went full Bontempts here, with his usual anti Wembanyama/Pop agenda.

Windhorst is one of the better national media big wigs as far as abstaining from that type of unprofessional behavior, but can never help himself when it comes to Pop.

We get it. They don't like him or the fact that they got another GOAT level prospect (didn't have any problem with the Scumbag screw job though), but it'd be nice to hear one segment about this team that isn't a mix between that and now Wembanyama fear mongering.

[scott]

Maybe you haven't heard much of these clowns act, but Bontempts in particular went full Bontempts here, with his usual anti Wembanyama/Pop agenda.

Windhorst is one of the better national media big wigs as far as abstaining from that type of unprofessional behavior, but can never help himself when it comes to Pop.

We get it. They don't like him or the fact that they got another GOAT level prospect (didn't have any problem with the Scumbag screw job though), but it'd be nice to hear one segment about this team that isn't a mix between that and now Wembanyama fear mongering.

Maybe I don’t have the proper lens in listening to them, but I generally agreed with most of what they were saying. Someone did explicitly say they didn’t think Wemby would demand a trade, but that he would force them to accelerate their previous timeline, which I agree with. I did hear the complaints about the “we know better than you” approach Pop takes with the media, but I don’t think they are wrong there either. For all the “that’s not who we are” talk Pop likes to give… he treats the media like second class citizens. I have a friend who used to work in SA Sports Media (who is now in another market) who hates the Spurs and SS&E specifically because of the way they handle the media.

I thought it was a good discussion. I’m sure these guys have their own biases against the Spurs, which is fine… easy to look through those and evaluate the discussion solely on the merits.

[couchman]

Sports media is a cesspool of clickbaiters and hot takes.
The best approach is to keep them at a distance.
If that means treating the few “good guys” poorly sometimes I’m ok with it.

[Spursfanfromafar]

Maybe I don’t have the proper lens in listening to them, but I generally agreed with most of what they were saying. Someone did explicitly say they didn’t think Wemby would demand a trade, but that he would force them to accelerate their previous timeline, which I agree with. I did hear the complaints about the “we know better than you” approach Pop takes with the media, but I don’t think they are wrong there either. For all the “that’s not who we are” talk Pop likes to give… he treats the media like second class citizens. I have a friend who used to work in SA Sports Media (who is now in another market) who hates the Spurs and SS&E specifically because of the way they handle the media.

I thought it was a good discussion. I’m sure these guys have their own biases against the Spurs, which is fine… easy to look through those and evaluate the discussion solely on the merits.

It was a smart discussion. Period.

[Splits]

I listened to it this morning and it was crap. Windhorst trying to quiet down the noise that ESPN is pushing a narrative about Wemby while simultaneously pushing that narrative; and Andrew Lopez was lame as well. Windhorst kept repeating that he'd be shocked if the spurs made any trades because SA has never been active with trading draft picks in the past. I just wondered how Bontemps and Lopez up didn't point out that the Spurs have never had such assets at their disposal before and, because of their great success over a 20 year span, also never had to make blockbuster trades. Windhorst just kept repeating that the Spurs are just going to go about building the team based on the OKC model but that this would take too long, and Wemby's comment about "running up the stairs" had GMs and NBA execs gasping and proclaiming that not even LeBron made such bold proclamations when he was a rookie. All Lopez said was that Wemby is far ahead of schedule and this is causing a problem for how the spurs will address building their team. The one thing I got out of it is that Lopez, for being designated the ESPN official Wemby reporter, doesn't have any insight. Mike Finger probably has more internal knowledge. They were a little more accurate when discussing who, besides Vassell, is a viable candidate to being a long-term teammate of Wemby's.

wtf is this wall of text.

tl;dr

[TD 21]

Maybe I don’t have the proper lens in listening to them, but I generally agreed with most of what they were saying. Someone did explicitly say they didn’t think Wemby would demand a trade, but that he would force them to accelerate their previous timeline, which I agree with. I did hear the complaints about the “we know better than you” approach Pop takes with the media, but I don’t think they are wrong there either. For all the “that’s not who we are” talk Pop likes to give… he treats the media like second class citizens. I have a friend who used to work in SA Sports Media (who is now in another market) who hates the Spurs and SS&E specifically because of the way they handle the media.

I thought it was a good discussion. I’m sure these guys have their own biases against the Spurs, which is fine… easy to look through those and evaluate the discussion solely on the merits.

No, they never do, because deep down they know it's ridiculous, but they have no problem leading down that road.

Again, in isolation totally fine and understandable. When virtually every Spurs related discussion post Scumbag devolves into that almost immediately it's gutless and agenda driven.

Maybe when you haven't heard it a ton. All types of nonsense, from claims of the Spurs not getting criticized because they're the Spurs (which again, stopped 6 years ago), to other claims of them having questionable trade assets (when they're inarguably among the best) to not coming up with possible solutions.

[spursparker9]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwrDvE3Q4yo

Building Around Victor Wembanyama

[JPB]

No, they never do, because deep down they know it's ridiculous, but they have no problem leading down that road.

Again, in isolation totally fine and understandable. When virtually every Spurs related discussion post Scumbag devolves into that almost immediately it's gutless and agenda driven.

Maybe when you haven't heard it a ton. All types of nonsense, from claims of the Spurs not getting criticized because they're the Spurs (which again, stopped 6 years ago), to other claims of them having questionable trade assets (when they're inarguably among the best) to not coming up with possible solutions.

Do they, or are we overestimating those assets?

No one's discussing the pick treasure they're sitting on, but as far as players are concerned, what is the actual value of the current roster in trade? You need that too eventually to bring proven talent in.

Are other FOs really salivating at Keldon, Sochan, Branham, Blake, Tre, Collins, not even mentioning Champagnie or Barlow? They watch the games lie we do, and see the obvious lack of talent and BBIQ, all things you can't teach. Devin is the one with the most value as 3 pt threat, but not that much either since he's not a 3&D.

Sure, it's a show and media like drama, but I wouldn't treat them as worthless or entirely biased either. Some do have insights and players/agents may use them to make some messages pass. And it's not just the media honestly, everyone following the NBA believe spurs may have to accelerate the rebuild.

as far as Pop is concerned, that's what happens when you act a bit arrogant. When you're on top, you can get away with a lot of things, but when things are not going well, don't complain people call you out for that same arrogance and cockiness... And what has honestly Pop accomplished since the end of the Big 3 era? Besides two of the worst seasons, BB wise, in spurs history. That team sucks, badly, and you don't seem to see some real direction or control. I believe on the contrary Pop is rather spared and still living on his former accomplishments (and probably age) In any other franchise, he would have been fired a long time ago... I mean, Sochan at PG?

[exstatic]

Do they, or are we overestimating those assets?

No one's discussing the pick treasure they're sitting on, but as far as players are concerned, what is the actual value of the current roster in trade? You need that too eventually to bring proven talent in.

Are other FOs really salivating at Keldon, Sochan, Branham, Blake, Tre, Collins, not even mentioning Champagnie or Barlow? They watch the games lie we do, and see the obvious lack of talent and BBIQ, all things you can't teach. Devin is the one with the most value as 3 pt threat, but not that much either since he's not a 3&D.

Sure, it's a show and media like drama, but I wouldn't treat them as worthless or entirely biased either. Some do have insights and players/agents may use them to make some messages pass. And it's not just the media honestly, everyone following the NBA believe spurs may have to accelerate the rebuild.

as far as Pop is concerned, that's what happens when you act a bit arrogant. When you're on top, you can get away with a lot of things, but when things are not going well, don't complain people call you out for that same arrogance and cockiness... And what has honestly Pop accomplished since the end of the Big 3 era? Besides two of the worst seasons, BB wise, in spurs history. That team sucks, badly, and you don't seem to see some real direction or control. I believe on the contrary Pop is rather spared and still living on his former accomplishments (and probably age) In any other franchise, he would have been fired a long time ago... I mean, Sochan at PG?

Have you ever hard Pop complain even one time? I’d love to see the quote…

[MultiTroll]

Have you ever hard Pop complain even one time? I’d love to see the quote…
"Not who we are": Gregg Popovich's crowd control backfires as boos for Kawhi Leonard intensifies (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/not-who-we-are-gregg-popovichs-crowd-control-backfires-as-boos-for-kawhi-leonard-intensifies/ar-AA1ko2iR)

[rjv]

Do they, or are we overestimating those assets?

No one's discussing the pick treasure they're sitting on, but as far as players are concerned, what is the actual value of the current roster in trade? You need that too eventually to bring proven talent in.

Are other FOs really salivating at Keldon, Sochan, Branham, Blake, Tre, Collins, not even mentioning Champagnie or Barlow? They watch the games lie we do, and see the obvious lack of talent and BBIQ, all things you can't teach. Devin is the one with the most value as 3 pt threat, but not that much either since he's not a 3&D.

Sure, it's a show and media like drama, but I wouldn't treat them as worthless or entirely biased either. Some do have insights and players/agents may use them to make some messages pass. And it's not just the media honestly, everyone following the NBA believe spurs may have to accelerate the rebuild.

they touched on this and Bontemps brought up the point that keldon and/or sochan would serve as ballast more than anything else, just to make salaries work; the real value would be found in the picks. and the problem isn't their so-called insight, it's the inferences and, sometimes, the blatantly wrong information that are disingenuous.

[scott]

they touched on this and Bontemps brought up the point that keldon and/or sochan would serve as ballast more than anything else, just to make salaries work; the real value would be found in the picks. and the problem isn't their so-called insight, it's the inferences and, sometimes, the blatantly wrong information that are disingenuous.

I mean, do you think Keldon and Sochan have significantly more value than that? I don't think you could get an FRP of either of these guys right now.

[rjv]

I mean, do you think Keldon and Sochan have significantly more value than that? I don't think you could get an FRP of either of these guys right now.

they don't have great value but they would be the component of any trade that would make a trade work, salary wise, for a sought after player; the greater value would be whatever first round picks we gave up in such a trade.

[scott]

^Isn't that basically what Bontemps said? Where's the beef?

[rjv]

^Isn't that basically what Bontemps said? Where's the beef?

that's what i wrote in my post that you quoted. have you had your coffee yet?

[scott]

that's what i wrote in my post that you quoted. have you had your coffee yet?

I apologize, maybe I misunderstood this part of your post:


and the problem isn't their so-called insight, it's the inferences and, sometimes, the blatantly wrong information that are disingenuous.

To me that read as Bontemp's opinion (which it appears we agree is accurate) as being "blatantly wrong information that is disingenuous". If that isn't what you mean, then sorry I misunderstood.

[SOMA Spur]

I like Windy and his show. But it does annoy me when they don't know what the fuck they're talking about. Windy - "Spurs have 3 First rounders next year". ESPNs new Spurs guy Lopez - "no, they could have as many as 4...". Also Bontempts brilliant analysis - "Spurs need to be careful and not do anything stupid". Well, no shit. Maybe offer up a little more than that. Trading Vassel? Offering up too many picks for Trae? Care to elaborate. But whatever, they talked Spurs roster for 30 minutes. I appreciate that.

[rjv]

I apologize, maybe I misunderstood this part of your post:



To me that read as Bontemp's opinion (which it appears we agree is accurate) as being "blatantly wrong information that is disingenuous". If that isn't what you mean, then sorry I misunderstood. [/COLOR]

that part was pointed more toward windhorst who kept harping on how the spurs have never made such trades before (as if what they did in the past would mean they'll never make such a trade) while failing to point out that the spurs have never had such a pile of trade assets in their entire franchise history. then there was all that hyperbole about how wemby's "running up the stairs" comment had NBA execs gasping. windhorst also insisted that the spurs tanked in 96-97 even though Bontemps had mentioned the David Robinson injury (but not the injuries to persons, avery and elliott).

[scott]

I think the National Media will get smarter as we return to relevance. It's hard for me to blame any of the national guys for not knowing much about what's going on here... because why would they? We're a bottom dweller who is only getting attention because of one player.

[Pauleta14]

Have you ever hard Pop complain even one time? I’d love to see the quote…

The way he dismisses in a condescending way questions (usually asked very diplomatically) is equivalent.

He’s acting as if whatever he’s doing is the obvious common sense and whoever dare question it is a moron.

He just happened to have been wrong A LOT but it didn’t bring any humility it seems.

[exstatic]

The way he dismisses in a condescending way questions (usually asked very diplomatically) is equivalent.

He’s acting as if whatever he’s doing is the obvious common sense and whoever dare question it is a moron.

He just happened to have been wrong A LOT but it didn’t bring any humility it seems.

That’s not a complaint. I agree with what you posted,but whatever the circumstances, he doesn’t complain about them, which is what you originally said. I’d have a problem if he complained about something he clearly caused ,but he doesn’t.

[Pauleta14]

That’s not a complaint. I agree with what you posted,but whatever the circumstances, he doesn’t complain about them, which is what you originally said. I’d have a problem if he complained about something he clearly caused ,but he doesn’t.

True he didn’t “formally” complain

I think it’s my way (maybe JPB as well) of interpreting some of his press conferences where he uses sarcasm as a way to respond or anticipate critics in a passive agressive way.

I recall one before season started when answering about Spurs plans for Wemby he said something like “before I screw Wemby’s season …” with a forced laugh.

Anyways, a perception thing I guess

[TD 21]

Do they, or are we overestimating those assets?

No one's discussing the pick treasure they're sitting on, but as far as players are concerned, what is the actual value of the current roster in trade? You need that too eventually to bring proven talent in.

Are other FOs really salivating at Keldon, Sochan, Branham, Blake, Tre, Collins, not even mentioning Champagnie or Barlow? They watch the games lie we do, and see the obvious lack of talent and BBIQ, all things you can't teach. Devin is the one with the most value as 3 pt threat, but not that much either since he's not a 3&D.

Sure, it's a show and media like drama, but I wouldn't treat them as worthless or entirely biased either. Some do have insights and players/agents may use them to make some messages pass. And it's not just the media honestly, everyone following the NBA believe spurs may have to accelerate the rebuild.

as far as Pop is concerned, that's what happens when you act a bit arrogant. When you're on top, you can get away with a lot of things, but when things are not going well, don't complain people call you out for that same arrogance and cockiness... And what has honestly Pop accomplished since the end of the Big 3 era? Besides two of the worst seasons, BB wise, in spurs history. That team sucks, badly, and you don't seem to see some real direction or control. I believe on the contrary Pop is rather spared and still living on his former accomplishments (and probably age) In any other franchise, he would have been fired a long time ago... I mean, Sochan at PG?

Look through star trades in the past decade or so and tell me that Johnson, salary relief and quantity/quality of draft equity is not a comparable package to many.

They just don't like the fact that the Spurs now possess it to go with the best asset in the league and an ideal third option in Vassell.

Most of these people are so biased and agenda driven that you give me a name, I can tell you their ties immediately.

Again, I have no problem with the Pop criticism in isolation (well deserved), but every segment for 6 years running about this team shouldn't immediately devolve into that.

[CGD]

That Andrew Lopez guy definitely trolls this message board.

[exstatic]

True he didn’t “formally” complain

I think it’s my way (maybe JPB as well) of interpreting some of his press conferences where he uses sarcasm as a way to respond or anticipate critics in a passive agressive way.

I recall one before season started when answering about Spurs plans for Wemby he said something like “before I screw Wemby’s season …” with a forced laugh.

Anyways, a perception thing I guess

He’s definitely sarcastic,and unfriendly to the press, but that’s because the NBA forces him to do press almost every night, and through 82 games there just isn’t much to discuss on a nightly basis I think he’s allowed to opt out maybe 5-6 times. He’s a jerk because that’s what makes for the shortest press conferences.

[rankingtear]

I like Windy and his show. But it does annoy me when they don't know what the fuck they're talking about. Windy - "Spurs have 3 First rounders next year". ESPNs new Spurs guy Lopez - "no, they could have as many as 4...". Also Bontempts brilliant analysis - "Spurs need to be careful and not do anything stupid". Well, no shit. Maybe offer up a little more than that. Trading Vassel? Offering up too many picks for Trae? Care to elaborate. But whatever, they talked Spurs roster for 30 minutes. I appreciate that.

They were talking about 2025 draft i think where we have anywhere from 2 - 6 first.

[Pauleta14]

He’s definitely sarcastic,and unfriendly to the press, but that’s because the NBA forces him to do press almost every night, and through 82 games there just isn’t much to discuss on a nightly basis I think he’s allowed to opt out maybe 5-6 times. He’s a jerk because that’s what makes for the shortest press conferences.

I know and have been defending him a lot through the years but he’s gotten way too comfortable at it :lol

go check tonight’s post game conf, even if the question was stupid the way he looked at the journalist with anger and disgust is just too much/unnecessary

Just make a joke and gtfo
It seemed it was at a local SA journalist

[rjv]

I get that there are a lot of dumb ass reporters out there and probably deserve some vitriol aimed their way, but are they all dipshits? it just seems to me that sometimes pop's being unnecessarily caustic with some of the local beat writers who are just trying to do their jobs; this seems kind of inconsistent from a coach who is reportedly such a great person when it comes to wait staff and servers in restaurants. of course, we just see part of it; maybe pop's not so bad with them off camera.

[TD 21]

Here's what a measured, nuanced, unbiased view of the situation sounds like . . .

Jokic’s legacy, Wembanyama’s future with Spurs & concerns for Suns & Clippers with Howard Beck - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FOYWgvhR7Q)

[rjv]

Here's what a measured, nuanced, unbiased view of the situation sounds like . . .

Jokic’s legacy, Wembanyama’s future with Spurs & concerns for Suns & Clippers with Howard Beck - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FOYWgvhR7Q)


33:30 mark: haven't had a north star in the past few season (they have one now), wemby has the 2nd highest usage rate but needs, an "elite playmaker", were obvious points to make but the same points so many naysayers fail to point out.

[rjv]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEtjqIYSmMg


maybe ESPN should listen to today's presser with Wemby.

[z0sa]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEtjqIYSmMg


maybe ESPN should listen to today's presser with Wemby.

The most important is to win. I do also like that he acknowledged that things like the Toronto pick are definitely on his (by his body language, he was basically nodding before the guy even finished talking about Memphis) and the FOs mind. That tells me he's actively involved with the FO and also probably reading about potential drafts, mock decisions, et cetera (maybe even here). I haven't given up hope our team can be good, and next season -- Good obviously being relative to our current mess. Let's hope we build a contender around the #1 sooner than later because I believe if we do ring, he will be here forever.

[tonight...you]

I think the National Media will get smarter as we return to relevance. It's hard for me to blame any of the national guys for not knowing much about what's going on here... because why would they? We're a bottom dweller who is only getting attention because of one player.
No. They won't. They never were when the Spurs were at the pinnacle for years.
They won't be now.

[lefty]

So apparently LeWembyGM era has arrived

About time

[exstatic]

So apparently LeWembyGM era has arrived

About time

Nah. It’s Windbag who doesn’t think the spurs can get away with the slow build, not Wemby. I’d be disappointed if Wemby were thrilled with where they were.

The Whole LeGM thing was never about making a better team,it was about onboarding his friends.

[MultiTroll]

So apparently LeWembyGM era has arrived

About time
Would be great to have a conversation with Wemby and see where he thinks it's at / what if anything he plans to do to get a competent roster and coach.

[vy65]

Nah. It’s Windbag who doesn’t think the spurs can get away with the slow build, not Wemby. I’d be disappointed if Wemby were thrilled with where they were.

The Whole LeGM thing was never about making a better team,it was about onboarding his friends.

No, it's straight from Wemby.

1771190711469097285

cue the equivocating ...

[MannyIsGod]

I'm shocked Tom Osborne was trying to paint a different picture. Shocked, I tell you.

Never seen a rookie talking about communications with the front office like Wemby just did. I'm not sure why people doubt Windhorst is plugged into Wemby's camp a lot more than the local media but I'm sure even when it comes directly from Wemby's mouth people will try to be like Osborne and spin it.

[MultiTroll]

Nah. It’s Windbag who doesn’t think the spurs can get away with the slow build, not Wemby. I’d be disappointed if Wemby were thrilled with where they were.
https://www.bing.com/th/id/OGC.4aa51106bc89f4c312457dca4a7e9095?pid=1.7&rurl=https%3a%2f%2fmedia.tenor.com%2fimages%2f4aa5 1106bc89f4c312457dca4a7e9095%2ftenor.gif&ehk=k7mN5wjqToowiLF7O1Rovu7gTNZyKIPZdXcnqqaNiNM%3d

[JPB]

I'm shocked Tom Osborne was trying to paint a different picture. Shocked, I tell you.

Never seen a rookie talking about communications with the front office like Wemby just did. I'm not sure why people doubt Windhorst is plugged into Wemby's camp a lot more than the local media but I'm sure even when it comes directly from Wemby's mouth people will try to be like Osborne and spin it.

- From the 3:45 mark:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u77WnmkPCCQ


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvDCdG2kM2w

[scott]

I think it's great they are involving Wemby like this, in fact it's one of the first encouraging signs I've seen from this FO that isn't just trading away players for assets.

I also think Wemby is likely the type to know (or figure out) what an appropriate level of input is, not trying to just be the LeGM.

Encouraging

[thiste]

Is there anybody here that is thrilled with where the Spurs are right now?

[Tyronn Lue]

Is there anybody here that is thrilled with where the Spurs are right now?
Yeah. They have Victor and some high draft picks. Looks bright ahead.

[MultiTroll]

7-38 fgs
0-18 Treys

Vs Grizzleys tonight
Champagne
Suckan
Osman
KJ
Branham
Wesley

So ya, Victors horks up shots sometimes when he shouldn't.

[TheGreatYacht]

This roster is worse than the shit show Lebron inherited in Cleveland. If we hadn’t gotten lucky with lottery balls and had to have been stuck with a Thompson twin or Scoot then we honestly could have had the worst record in league history. This is the worst defense in the league when Victor isn’t on the court and only about 3 players can shoot.

Overhaul this pile of dog shit. Adding Reed Sheppard and standing pat might improve our record by one win next season and then the pressure will really start hitting for wasting two seasons of Victor.

[offset formation]

No it won’t. When we’re a play in team, they’ll bitch that we’re not a playoff team. When we’re a playoff team, they’ll bitch that we’re not a top seed. When we’re a top seed they’ll bitch that we’re not a champion. When we’re a champion, they’ll bitch that we’re not back to back. When we’re back to back, they’ll bitch that we’re not a three peat.

Seeing a pattern?

I'll stop bitching when we stop losing 12 or 13 games in a row to a good chunk of the League (see Memphis) or go 1 for out last 15 against others.

Or when we stop having a league or division worst defense when Wembanyama isn't on the court, breaking historical records in back to back seasons

I'll stop bitching when this team isn't expected to lose each game.

I'll stop bitching when this team plays with any consistency whatsoever.

I'll stop bitching when Keldon Johnson stops ball hogging with wide open shooters, yet still plays crunch time minutes.

I'll stop bitching when we stop giving career or season high points to multiple players.

I'll stop bitching when people stop trying to give away our only real asset presently to turn the corner, and that's our draft picks.

I'll stop bitching if this team learns how to throw an entry pass to a 7'4" behemoth whether on the block or in the paint. I swear I could go out and do a better job without one practice session.

I could keep going for ages, but one last one here, I'll stop bitching when the front office picks a guy like Sengun before an unknown project like Primo. That ones gonna hurt for a long time.

Seeing a pattern why we've been sucking and people are bitching?

[JPB]

Is there anybody here that is thrilled with where the Spurs are right now?

Pop apparently.

[Pauleta14]

Pop apparently.

Chinook and others on ST

would love to have an update on their optimistic views tbh :lol

[Mal]

Is there anybody here that is thrilled with where the Spurs are right now?

They have Wemby, shit tons of picks and cap space. There are couple players that should be useful for future like Vassell, Sochan, Young. But I don't trust POP and Wright to being able to create good team of it.

[scott]

They have Wemby, shit tons of picks and cap space. There are couple players that should be useful for future like Vassell, Sochan, Young. But I don't trust POP and Wright to being able to create good team of it.

I understand the overall vibe of your post, but I do want to correct the notion that we have “shit tons of cap space” - we really don’t, at least not for a few years *if* we go into a tax space maximizing roster construction (which might not necessarily be the best strategy for taking advantage of Wemby’s rookie deal).

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/san-antonio-spurs/yearly/cap/?callback=in&code=OGUZNDEZZDUTMMMZNS0ZODRMLWI3MJQTYTEZMGZLYZIYY ZVJ&state=b38186f71c904fa8bd8b75c4e198af42

[Mal]

I understand the overall vibe of your post, but I do want to correct the notion that we have “shit tons of cap space” - we really don’t, at least not for a few years *if* we go into a tax space maximizing roster construction (which might not necessarily be the best strategy for taking advantage of Wemby’s rookie deal).

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/san-antonio-spurs/yearly/cap/?callback=in&code=OGUZNDEZZDUTMMMZNS0ZODRMLWI3MJQTYTEZMGZLYZIYY ZVJ&state=b38186f71c904fa8bd8b75c4e198af42

Graham is gone, that 10 mil gone.
And noone is signing FA in nowadays NBA with cap space, so if there is any FA, trading Keldon, Zack Collins, Wesley, Branham with couple SRP`s to make s`n`t done, shouldnt be a problem.

But I really doubt such thing will be happening, most likely some borderline start on 2 yrs deal.

[CGD]

I understand the overall vibe of your post, but I do want to correct the notion that we have “shit tons of cap space” - we really don’t, at least not for a few years *if* we go into a tax space maximizing roster construction (which might not necessarily be the best strategy for taking advantage of Wemby’s rookie deal).

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/san-antonio-spurs/yearly/cap/?callback=in&code=OGUZNDEZZDUTMMMZNS0ZODRMLWI3MJQTYTEZMGZLYZIYY ZVJ&state=b38186f71c904fa8bd8b75c4e198af42

By my count it’s ~15M once they cut Graham and renounce Cedi and Mamu. They can get more by waiving Bassey, Champagne, and renouncing Barlow, but I think that would be a mistake since those are cheap/useful deals.

[Biggems]

Next year I want these players on the roster with Wemby.

Vassell
Sochan
Jones
Wesley
Sidy

I could care less about anyone else on the roster. If we need to use them for trade value, so be it. With that being said, I would not be opposed to Johnson and Barlow returning.

the rest of the roster is fodder though. We do not have the time or patience for these players to find themselves. We have already wasted one year of the Golden Child's career. We cannot waste another.

[Pauleta14]

Next year I want these players on the roster with Wemby.

Vassell
Sochan
Jones
Wesley
Sidy

I could care less about anyone else on the roster. If we need to use them for trade value, so be it. With that being said, I would not be opposed to Johnson and Barlow returning.

the rest of the roster is fodder though. We do not have the time or patience for these players to find themselves. We have already wasted one year of the Golden Child's career. We cannot waste another.

We can’t have another year of Tre Jones mate. The dude can’t pass to our “golden child” as u call him…

he’s too undersized and bad passer to start. Wemby is gonna lose it

either him or Wesley on the bench. Not both

[spurraider21]

Sidy and Wesley are also fodder

[MultiTroll]

We can’t have another year of Tre Jones mate. The dude can’t pass to our “golden child” as u call him…

he’s too undersized and bad passer to start. Wemby is gonna lose it

either him or Wesley on the bench. Not both
And Defense too.

Other team has an advantage 29 out of 30 games.
Puts more stress on Wama.

[Pauleta14]

And Defense too.

Other team has an advantage 29 out of 30 games.
Puts more stress on Wama.

yep.

It’s quite fascinating to see Tre being seen as “ok for the future” in most fans projections tbh

[Frenchfred]

I understand the overall vibe of your post, but I do want to correct the notion that we have “shit tons of cap space” - we really don’t, at least not for a few years *if* we go into a tax space maximizing roster construction (which might not necessarily be the best strategy for taking advantage of Wemby’s rookie deal).

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/san-antonio-spurs/yearly/cap/?callback=in&code=OGUZNDEZZDUTMMMZNS0ZODRMLWI3MJQTYTEZMGZLYZIYY ZVJ&state=b38186f71c904fa8bd8b75c4e198af42

what is "cap holds"? If we have 118 millions in salary and the salary cap is 141 millions, why don't we have 23 millions in cap space?

[scott]

what is "cap holds"? If we have 118 millions in salary and the salary cap is 141 millions, why don't we have 23 millions in cap space?

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q13

[Tyronn Lue]

Next year I want these players on the roster with Wemby.

Vassell
Sochan
Jones
Wesley
Sidy

I could care less about anyone else on the roster. If we need to use them for trade value, so be it. With that being said, I would not be opposed to Johnson and Barlow returning.

the rest of the roster is fodder though. We do not have the time or patience for these players to find themselves. We have already wasted one year of the Golden Child's career. We cannot waste another.
There's no one in your list who matters to the Spurs success.

[mo7888]

yep.

It’s quite fascinating to see Tre being seen as “ok for the future” in most fans projections tbh

I mean... "ok for a backup", sure... not vital or necessary, but ok until you can upgrade.... as a starter? No, he's not "ok"..

[Degoat]

Tre has probably been the most consistent spurs all year… (outside wemby) he’d be great as a backup. I think he is a good passer but there’s absolutely no spacing on the court to make passes lol

[Pauleta14]

Tre has probably been the most consistent spurs all year… (outside wemby) he’d be great as a backup. I think he is a good passer but there’s absolutely no spacing on the court to make passes lol

Consistent in what exactly?

he’s smart enough to put his numbers but he can’t pass to the most important player. Victor is more willing or able to pass to Tre then the other way around.

it’s kind of a massive issue to me :lol

He’s only doing ok for 2 reasons , first the rest is horrible and gives a perception of ok for Tre who's smart (I suspect cynical) compared to others, second no team scouts Tre or cares about him, any time they focus on him he’s shut down.

all he does is dribble dribble dribble and either pass on the perimeter or go for a layup usually using Victor as a decoy :lol

His career is in Europe not in NBA

[The Truth #6]

I think Wemby wants to be the best, and wants to be coached by the best. So keeping Pop here actually maybe important in keeping VW happy. He definitely looks up to Pop. But moving forward, they need to upgrade the assistant coaching staff while Pop sticks around. If they are so forward thinking, they need to have a replacement plan in the works that VW feels comfortable with so he's not just here to learn from Pop.

[Spurs Brazil]

Sidy is another guy the front office drafted that can’t shoot. They love those

[MultiTroll]

I think Wemby wants to be the best, and wants to be coached by the best. So keeping Pop here actually maybe important in keeping VW happy. He definitely looks up to Pop. But moving forward, they need to upgrade the assistant coaching staff while Pop sticks around. If they are so forward thinking, they need to have a replacement plan in the works that VW feels comfortable with so he's not just here to learn from Pop.
Gave me a little chuckle with my morning joe. :lol

[exstatic]

Sidy is another guy the front office drafted that can’t shoot. They love those

It’s OK to draft players with even multiple holes in the second round, and hope they hit on fixing 3-4 of them.

[slick'81]

If next season is another top 5 worst finish well see how happy victor really is

[exstatic]

Gave me a little chuckle with my morning joe. :lol

Have you watched any interviews with Vic about Pop? They work a lot one on one, and Victor loves the lessons. He sounded sad that the season is ending, and with it, those sessions.

You hate Pop, and that’s fine. Just know that not everyone, and probably no one in the organization feels that way. You’re on despair island with the rest of the fools here.

How’s that Draymond thread going, BTW? Anyone else entering the discussion, or is it just you bumping your own thread every few weeks, and me hectoring you? If you keep self bumping, you’ll go blind.

[Pauleta14]

Sidy is another guy the front office drafted that can’t shoot. They love those

To play devil’s advocate, I get it.

PATFO drafted Kawhi who couldn’t shoot and became elite with good work ethic. Among all the criterias ppl are looking at in a prospect, shooting is probably the easiest to improve on.

you can’t teach size or character (defensive grit for ex), that’s why I can (still refuse to lol) understand Sochan’s choice.

And that’s why I personally would bet on Cody Williams because there isn’t one profil that offers more upside in this draft (aside Sarr maybe)

+ Sidy was 2RP

[scott]

I don't have much hope for Sidy, and hope I'm wrong, but I'm definitely happier with rolling the dice on SRPs than I am trading them for cash considerations.

[JPB]

To play devil’s advocate, I get it.

PATFO drafted Kawhi who couldn’t shoot and became elite with good work ethic. Among all the criterias ppl are looking at in a prospect, shooting is probably the easiest to improve on.

you can’t teach size or character (defensive grit for ex), that’s why I can (still refuse to lol) understand Sochan’s choice.

And that’s why I personally would bet on Cody Williams because there isn’t one profil that offers more upside in this draft (aside Sarr maybe)

+ Sidy was 2RP

Kawhi could shoot tbh. Watching his combine footage, you could see he had the touch, feeling and coordination to become a shooter. It was a question of putting on the work and repetitions, maybe twisiting a couple things. Sidy is too raw in that domain to ever become a reliable shooter.

It's not that simple to teach how to shoot, and not automatic, specially with big dudes. The player must have it in him. You can work all you want, if a player don't have what it takes he'll never be a shooter in the NBA.

[Pauleta14]

Kawhi could shoot tbh. Watching his combine footage, you could see he had the touch, feeling and coordination to become a shooter. It was a question of putting on the work and repetitions, maybe twisiting a couple things. Sidy is too raw in that domain to ever become a reliable shooter.

It's not that simple to teach how to shoot, and not automatic, specially with big dudes. The player must have it in him. You can work all you want, if a player don't have what it takes he'll never be a shooter in the NBA.

Kawhi had a bad shot mate, it was THE reason he wasn’t top10

And I’m not comparing him to Sidi nor have I seen enough of him to know why Spurs picked him tbh. I’m just talking in principle. I get the logic

There are so many different intangibles tho…

[KobesAchilles]

I mean there’s nothing for Wemby to be thrilled about with the season. Every teammate he has sucks. They can’t even throw a lob pass to a guy 7ft 4. They can’t throw an entry pass. They can’t play defense. They can’t shoot. They can’t play a style of ball other than running around with their head cutoff. They make some of the dumbest decisions in the clutch both offensively and defensively. And the coach is washed.

If I were an A+ and I was in a group full of D- people then I would the fuck out

[CGD]

Kawhi could shoot tbh. Watching his combine footage, you could see he had the touch, feeling and coordination to become a shooter. It was a question of putting on the work and repetitions, maybe twisiting a couple things. Sidy is too raw in that domain to ever become a reliable shooter.

It's not that simple to teach how to shoot, and not automatic, specially with big dudes. The player must have it in him. You can work all you want, if a player don't have what it takes he'll never be a shooter in the NBA.

Kawhi could not shoot. He had that busted catapult shot.

[get_mills_out]

https://imgur.com/a/ixovbJfhttps://imgur.com/a/ixovbJfhttps://i.imgur.com/rNIa4qR.png

[get_mills_out]

https://i.imgur.com/7nptCwp.png

[spurraider21]

mamu is trash tbh

[JPB]

https://i.imgur.com/7nptCwp.png

:pop: Let's put 4 non shooters on the perimeter to give Wemby some space in the post.

:pop: Wait! Why the entire defense is ignoring the perimeter and circling Wemby? Who gave them the plan?

[get_mills_out]

mamu is trash tbh

I like the idea of Mamu more than the reality. Spurs should be looking for (better) versions of the same archetype. NBA size, high BBIQ, threat from outside, can BOTH read passing lanes AND score with a live dribble. Now that we have Wemby I truly dgaf how athletic and "over themselves" guys are, or if they "play the right way". We need smart players who can shoot, pass, and dribble in that order.

Aside from Vassell imo Mamu is the closest to ticking all of those boxes. I just think it's funny that he plays 0 minutes.

[z0sa]

https://i.imgur.com/7nptCwp.png

Look ma, it's a soft quintuple team!

[spurraider21]

I like the idea of Mamu more than the reality. Spurs should be looking for (better) versions of the same archetype. NBA size, high BBIQ, threat from outside, can BOTH read passing lanes AND score with a live dribble. Now that we have Wemby I truly dgaf how athletic and "over themselves" guys are, or if they "play the right way". We need smart players who can shoot, pass, and dribble in that order.

Aside from Vassell imo Mamu is the closest to ticking all of those boxes. I just think it's funny that he plays 0 minutes.
basically this. he usually looks better than his production offensively because he does move with suddenness and with purpose. it just doesnt always yield results. he obviously has skills for a guy his size, but they dont manifest. and every time he has a 2-3 minute stretch where good things happen and i ask myself "huh, its kind of weird why he doesnt play more" and then i watch him just play branham level defense and think "oh, thats why"

[scott]

Mamu runs the way I assume Borat does. This is my favorite part about watching him play.

[MultiTroll]

Have you watched any interviews with Vic about Pop? They work a lot one on one, and Victor loves the lessons. He sounded sad that the season is ending, and with it, those sessions.
I've only seen one. Wama sounded combo of saying the right pc thing and mildly happy. Hardly thrilled. Surely you have links to others? No.


You hate Pop, and that’s fine. Just know that not everyone, and probably no one in the organization feels that way. You’re on despair island with the rest of the fools here.
Ive hated his strategies since 2004.
It's become soo obvious since to the uninitiated since 2019.
But you Sniffers refuse to admit.
Sniffer Island is where you're at.
I'm hardly in the minority of clearly seeing how inept his strategies and personnel moves are.

Since the only way to stay in the organization is to be a Yes Man or Yes Woman to Popped, your guess that "everyone" loves his strategies is a big whatever.
Would love to hear what Timmy Duncar, Manu and Becky really think.

[Knoxxx]

Seems like it would be beneficial to team chemistry and Wemby morale to see us beat a team without him that just curb stomped us with him.

Stay thirsty, my friends!

[MultiTroll]

How’s that Draymond thread going, BTW? Anyone else entering the discussion, or is it just you bumping your own thread every few weeks, and me hectoring you? If you keep self bumping, you’ll go blind.
Fine i guess. Has Gaymond done something since his latest bullying incident? That is when i bump it. Or when someone (you know besides you) chooses to comment.
Yes many others besides yourself had and have entered the discussion.
You're still very butthurt towards me over the thread.

[get_mills_out]

https://i.imgur.com/RwmnRXl.png

The funny thing about this one is the play is for Wesley to set a screen for Branham so he can receive a pass at the top of the key with a better angle for Victor. But the defense pays so little attention to either of them that they just end up doing this awkward high five as Branham runs past Wesley.


Also all of these are from Victor highlights. He scores on all of these plays. Imagine how bad that makes the non-highlights

[Chinook]

https://i.imgur.com/RwmnRXl.png

The funny thing about this one is the play is for Wesley to set a screen for Branham so he can receive a pass at the top of the key with a better angle for Victor. But the defense pays so little attention to either of them that they just end up doing this awkward high five as Branham runs past Wesley.


Also all of these are from Victor highlights. He scores on all of these plays. Imagine how bad that makes the non-highlights

EDIT: I'm going to make some changes here for clarity, but I wrote this post originally without seeing the clip, assuming the still image presented was an accurate representation of the defense. I commented in a later post after I saw that and will mostly leave this as it was.

The action you're describing is called a high-low and is a traditional big-to-big pass. Here are highlights to Duncan and LMA running it:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXYPGNWN4Ms&ab_channel=XKCheung

And one of the Spurs running it in general with Tim as the low man:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUTKzXs-uSw&ab_channel=EdgeBasketballEdits

You should be able to see some differences between those plays and the this one that you believe the Spurs could run that action for. The first thing that stands out to me is that Branham or Wesley is not a big. The reason why the pass comes from a big is to pull the passers' man out of the paint and to create an easier angle for the lob. Even ignoring that the Grizz aren't guarding anyone else (EDIT to say that no, the Grizzlies are guarding their men, which creates the space I assumed wasn't available), Wesley or Branham's man wouldn't be in the paint to pull out. That's not an instant deal-breaker, as the second vid shows wings doing the pass if they're quick enough (which is what happened in this case). But the inside pressure that a second big generates is part of what makes those plays work and why the Spurs shouldn't be so hasty to avoid playing a center if they can find the right one

The next thing I'm looking at is how high Wemby is in his post-up. That's way too high for a high-low, though typically, a player wouldn't front the post that high up, because it leaves open a lob into the open space. (EDIT to say that by the time the high-low actually happens, Wemby is basically under the basket exactly where he should be.)The issue is that Grizzlies are absolutely playing that lob pass. (EDIT to say they aren't, because they aren't quintuple teaming Wemby like the screen shot implied. They basically abandon the paint by the end of the possession.) That's why they can't "just throw it up there" as often as some posters wish. Even after a high-low action, there's a lot of room for defenders to get in the way of that pass and of Victor's path to the basket. One possible solution would be to throw the ball toward the short corner and have the strong side Spurs cut behind their men to the basket. Victor catches the ball, turns and immediately finds a cutter for a score. You do that enough times, and the defenders are going to start staying home, whether they respect the Spurs' shooting or not. (EDIT to say this is likely what Memphis was scared of and why they abandoned the paint the second the Spurs did anything other than trying to force that entry pass).

The biggest thing is that high-lows are timing/chemistry actions often done on the fly to counter certain types of defenses. That second video features Tim as the scorer, and you can see how he is reading the floor and syncing him movements to line up with the passes. Tim reads the floor, sees a high-low needs to happen and stops calling for the ball. As soon as the pass is made to the high-man, Tim seals his man, creates the target window and calls for the ball. Understanding when the windows in the offense are so you can be "open" at the right time is essential to good off-ball play, be it in plays like this, duck-ins, rolls, curls, transition etc. This isn't something Wemby's teammates do for him. It's something he and the other players learn and then watch film, talk it out and practice to get it right. That action isn't as easy to do in general now with the lack of a second big, and it wouldn't be a counter to that tight of a defense that doesn't care about anyone else on the court, but any timing play is worth them learning and incorporating, because teams aren't going to stop defending Wemby this way until it stops working. (EDIT only to say that the way Pop was directing this high-low indeed suggests the Spurs are working on ways to get Wemby the ball besides raw post-ups. You can see from Wemby's reaction that this was an action specifically worked on by the team. It's good stuff. )

[Chinook]

https://imgur.com/a/ixovbJfhttps://imgur.com/a/ixovbJfhttps://i.imgur.com/rNIa4qR.png

Would be nice to get a video for these still images. Like it's clear that Vassell is moving, so rather than asking what he is doing, we could just watch the video to see what he's doing. This looks like it's from the :24 mark of this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dg1hWXy4I2M&ab_channel=ZHHighlights

Vassell is getting out of the paint after passing the ball to Victor, who short-rolled right into the middle of the Warriors discombobulated defense. Golden State seems to be playing a zone here, which is why they aren't against their men. Thompson switched onto Wemby but just guarded air, leaving the left side of the glass open for Victor to spin for a nice finish. You can just go forward a bit later in the video to see the Warriors didn't play that defense most of the game. But I guess screen shots are nice.

[Chinook]

https://i.imgur.com/7nptCwp.png

1:55 of this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZK18hrxRc4&ab_channel=ZHHighlights

Let's unpack this a bit: Thompson is guarding Wemby, which Tate committing to early help. Bullock and Holiday are prerotated for help. What was supposed to happen is that Tate was suppose to help toward the baseline, leaving the pass to Wesley open. Then Bullock to Wesley, Holiday to Champangie and Tate to Mamu. We've actually talked about a similar rotation in a different context before. The issue is Tate's help is bad. He runs the to wrong shoulder, leaving the basket open for Wemby. That's why Tate and Holiday are yelling at each other after the clip, because this wasn't the defense Houston was trying to play. It was a mistake that left literally everyone open. Even Jeff Green is ball-watching and lets Branham drift for a wide open three-point look, probably short-circuiting the whole rotation in the first place since the pass would've just gone to Malaki.

So yeah, so far you've posted two shots of poor defense and called for a high-low in a situation where it didn't make sense. I haven't even looked at the Memphis clip though. Let me check it out.

3:13 of this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epToWe_7n1k&ab_channel=ZHHighlights

Oh, would you look at that, it was a high-low play that was able to work because Wemby and Branham coordinated, and the Grizzlies completely vacated the paint. Memphis was absolutely not guarding the way the screen shot suggested they were. They were sticking right to their men and allowed a clean pass because of it. If Memphis were playing the Spurs like you suggested they were, that high-low wouldn't be there, because Pereira would've been right there. Instead, he ran to guard Osman.

The "wave" by the way isn't a high-five, nor is it a call for a screen It's just him telling Branham to rotate. You can also see Pop calls for the high-low to be thrown, so it's clear it's something the team is working on.

I feel kind of dumb, because I got caught up in the high-low talk and just assumed you were accurately representing the situations you were citing. I won't make that mistake again.

[scott]

I haven't thought too much about these screenshots/plays other than to think they are funny... but there is a bigger take away for me that comes from Chinook's analysis - teams are getting suckered into bad defensive positions due to Wemby's gravity, but the Spurs are unable to fully take advantage of it because their players aren't very good. This should be the first, and maybe only, observation that needs to be made and should give clear direction to what needs to happen - the talent needs to be upgraded and some of these other guys should be moved on from or sent to the end of the bench where they can develop on a more appropriate timeline for their skill sets.

[Chinook]

I haven't thought too much about these screenshots/plays other than to think they are funny... but there is a bigger take away for me that comes from Chinook (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=37557)'s analysis - teams are getting suckered into bad defensive positions due to Wemby's gravity, but the Spurs are unable to fully take advantage of it because their players aren't very good. This should be the first, and maybe only, observation that needs to be made and should give clear direction to what needs to happen - the talent needs to be upgraded and some of these other guys should be moved on from or sent to the end of the bench where they can develop on a more appropriate timeline for their skill sets.

You're not wrong. These are examples of teams overreacting to Wemby potentially getting a paint touch that are similar to the bad defensive possessions we used to talk about earlier in the year where all of the Spurs would run into the paint and leave guys open for threes. It's definitely something the team should leverage more going forward. I've talked about the dialectic nature of Wemby's development and how it's an arms race of Wemby and opposing defenses adding measures and counter-measures to try to get ahead of each other. Hand in hand with that is the roster improving, both from bringing new players in and from the ones who stay developing and taking the (hopefully good) coaching to make a system work.

But it's important to note that these screen shots are misinformation. They aren't a sign of Wemby scoring "despite the defense". These are examples of Wemby scoring against a defense that is out of sorts. That's not a knock against Victor -- it's what stars are supposed to do. But it is a counter to the narratives some posters cling to in order to never have to change their minds. They have to believe the guys are awful, so they can't be happy if they win a game without Victor, and they have to post misleading screen shots to find "evidence" for their stance.

[scott]

You're not wrong. These are examples of teams overreacting to Wemby potentially getting a paint touch that are similar to the bad defensive possessions we used to talk about earlier in the year where all of the Spurs would run into the paint and leave guys open for threes. It's definitely something the team should leverage more going forward. I've talked about the dialectic nature of Wemby's development and how it's an arms race of Wemby and opposing defenses adding measures and counter-measures to try to get ahead of each other. Hand in hand with that is the roster improving, both from bringing new players in and from the ones who stay developing and taking the (hopefully good) coaching to make a system work.

But it's important to note that these screen shots are misinformation. They aren't a sign of Wemby scoring "despite the defense". These are examples of Wemby scoring against a defense that is out of sorts. That's not a knock against Victor -- it's what stars are supposed to do. But it is a counter to the narratives some posters cling to in order to never have to change their minds. They have to believe the guys are awful, so they can't be happy if they win a game without Victor, and they have to post misleading screen shots to find "evidence" for their stance.

And to that end, we don't talk as frequently about how a better surrounding cast will aid in Wemby's development. Man, I can't wait for the offseason to get here already.

[JeffDuncan]

https://i.imgur.com/RwmnRXl.png

The funny thing about this one is the play is for Wesley to set a screen for Branham so he can receive a pass at the top of the key with a better angle for Victor. But the defense pays so little attention to either of them that they just end up doing this awkward high five as Branham runs past Wesley.
…


The Grizz were in zone defense so the need for a down screen never existed. (Of course a team can do the same play actions against either zone or man to man.) But the screen idea doesn’t apply here. Why they did what they did with their hands, who knows. Just force of habit, maybe.

Anyway, Wesley and Branham switched places. They switched so Branham would be the one to receive the pass from Keldon, if Keldon couldn’t get the ball to Wemby.

You’re exactly right, of course, about them looking for a better angle to Wemby, if Keldon couldn’t pass to him.

The switch was because Branham is a far better shooter than Wesley. If the pass to Wemby still wasn’t possible, the next option was to shoot. (The shot clock is running.)

Branham isn’t a great shooter, but Wesley is hopeless. So, the switch.

Fortunately, Branham was able to make the pass to Wemby. And the fans cheer.

BTW, all that ridiculous clown show drivel that Chinook posted can safely be ignored. He doesn’t even know what the term “high-low” means.

[rjv]

what was up with Windhorst today? He sounded like someone who is falling in love with the SA/Austin metro area.

[scott]

what was up with Windhorst today? He sounded like someone who is falling in love with the SA/Austin metro area.

Homie discovered Mexican food and Latina women this weekend. Is now all in.

[MultiTroll]

Vassell is getting out of the paint after passing the ball to Victor,
Vassell was never in the paint the entire play.

His launching point when passing the ball was just outside the corner arc.

[DPG21920]

Homie discovered Mexican food and Latina women this weekend. Is now all in.

Lmao

[CGD]

what was up with Windhorst today? He sounded like someone who is falling in love with the SA/Austin metro area.

Windhorst is so frustrating some times. “I’m gonna announce this… some players are going to want to play with Victor… at some point in time…”

[Chinook]

Vassell was never in the paint the entire play.

His launching point when passing the ball was just outside the corner arc.

And from my memory, he landed at the corner of the paint by the elbow and then ran out.

It doesn't matter though since I posted the video so we could all see what happened without depending on a dishonest screen shot or a quick description from a poster.

[poopbox]

I haven't thought too much about these screenshots/plays other than to think they are funny... but there is a bigger take away for me that comes from Chinook (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=37557)'s analysis - teams are getting suckered into bad defensive positions due to Wemby's gravity, but the Spurs are unable to fully take advantage of it because their players aren't very good. This should be the first, and maybe only, observation that needs to be made and should give clear direction to what needs to happen - the talent needs to be upgraded and some of these other guys should be moved on from or sent to the end of the bench where they can develop on a more appropriate timeline for their skill sets.

Meh...has more to do with his teammates sucking and defensive knowing they won't make the shot, pass, or correct play.

Swap out Branhim and Wesley with say KCP and Bruce Brown and no defense is going to react like that even if Wemby has his guy buried under the rim.

[exstatic]

what was up with Windhorst today? He sounded like someone who is falling in love with the SA/Austin metro area.

I’d take that as a good sign. Probably vibes he’s getting from the W family.

[NASpurs]

I’d take that as a good sign. Probably vibes he’s getting from the W family.

So when it's something good, he's in tuned with the family but when it's something bad, he's just Lebron's cum shield. Sniffers are funny.

[exstatic]

So when it's something good, he's in tuned with the family but when it's something bad, he's just Lebron's cum shield. Sniffers are funny.

So when something is bad, he’s tuned in, but when something is good, we’re just sniffers.

[NASpurs]

So when something is bad, he’s tuned in, but when something is good, we’re just sniffers.

No just taking note of your hypocrisy. Pick and choose a lane sniffer. Either he knows what he's talking about or he's just Lebron's pawn.

[tonight...you]

No just taking note of your hypocrisy. Pick and choose a lane sniffer. Either he knows what he's talking about or he's just Lebron's pawn.
He's a headline maker.
Nothing more, nothing less.
He will make an extreme out of everything he remotely hears.
That's the lane I pick.
He's a male Ramona who doesn't have the Laker connect she does.

[Splits]

Well that Wemby is out with his ankle, no need to pay attention to anything but the offseason. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ)

[Mugen]

He's a headline maker.
Nothing more, nothing less.
He will make an extreme out of everything he remotely hears.
That's the lane I pick.
He's a male Ramona who doesn't have the Laker connect she does.

Big Windy is way more plugged in than Mona the Hut tbh.

[tonight...you]

Big Windy is way more plugged in than Mona the Hut tbh.
I trust you above all others for reasons unknown.

[MultiTroll]

And from my memory, he landed at the corner of the paint by the elbow and then ran out.

It doesn't matter though since I posted the video so we could all see what happened without depending on a dishonest screen shot or a quick description from a poster.
So why in your estimation was "running out" as Wemby was backing the ball in....
The right move by Vassell?
What makes the screen shot dishonest?
Since we have the vid.

[Chinook]

So why in your estimation was "running out" as Wemby was backing the ball in....
The right move by Vassell?
What makes the screen shot dishonest?
Since we have the vid.

We have the video. You should watch it. It doesn't seem like you have if you think Victor is "backing the ball in". Vassell and Wembanyama are running a PnR. Victor short-rolls and gets the pass from Vassell. Devin immediately cuts back out to the three-point line to give Wemby space. Victor is superhuman, so he can just do a single spin-move from the free-throw line and go into a push-shot off the glass. The actual screen shot is taken when Victor is starting his spin to make it look like he's trying to back down his man from like 16 feet or something and is act perplexed about Vassell when whoever took that screen shot should've been able to tell what Devin was doing from the actual clip they took the frame from. Moreover, using these images to represent teams ignoring the other guys because they all looked at Victor once he caught the ball is misleading. All three clips are actually of defenses breaking down. They aren't in the paint because they are only worried about Victor. They're in the paint because they all messed up. You can see in that in some of these clips where the players are yelling at each other afterward.

The screen shots are dishonest, like literally the same as those stupid political gotcha posts from Facebook. The person who made them (whether than be the poster or someone else) knew they weren't representing the reality when they took those shots. They intentionally looked for the frames that painted the picture they wanted and added extremely biased and misleading annotations. It doesn't make sense. You can make the argument that the Spurs need to upgrade their roster without resorting to making up evidence.

[Pauleta14]

Big Windy is way more plugged in than Mona the Hut tbh.

:lmao

[spursparker9]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nlrY2p9sp4

[get_mills_out]

:pop:

[get_mills_out]

EDIT: I'm going to make some changes here for clarity, but I wrote this post originally without seeing the clip, assuming the still image presented was an accurate representation of the defense. I commented in a later post after I saw that and will mostly leave this as it was.

The action you're describing is called a high-low and is a traditional big-to-big pass. Here are highlights to Duncan and LMA running it:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXYPGNWN4Ms&ab_channel=XKCheung

And one of the Spurs running it in general with Tim as the low man:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUTKzXs-uSw&ab_channel=EdgeBasketballEdits

You should be able to see some differences between those plays and the this one that you believe the Spurs could run that action for. The first thing that stands out to me is that Branham or Wesley is not a big. The reason why the pass comes from a big is to pull the passers' man out of the paint and to create an easier angle for the lob. Even ignoring that the Grizz aren't guarding anyone else (EDIT to say that no, the Grizzlies are guarding their men, which creates the space I assumed wasn't available), Wesley or Branham's man wouldn't be in the paint to pull out. That's not an instant deal-breaker, as the second vid shows wings doing the pass if they're quick enough (which is what happened in this case). But the inside pressure that a second big generates is part of what makes those plays work and why the Spurs shouldn't be so hasty to avoid playing a center if they can find the right one

The next thing I'm looking at is how high Wemby is in his post-up. That's way too high for a high-low, though typically, a player wouldn't front the post that high up, because it leaves open a lob into the open space. (EDIT to say that by the time the high-low actually happens, Wemby is basically under the basket exactly where he should be.)The issue is that Grizzlies are absolutely playing that lob pass. (EDIT to say they aren't, because they aren't quintuple teaming Wemby like the screen shot implied. They basically abandon the paint by the end of the possession.) That's why they can't "just throw it up there" as often as some posters wish. Even after a high-low action, there's a lot of room for defenders to get in the way of that pass and of Victor's path to the basket. One possible solution would be to throw the ball toward the short corner and have the strong side Spurs cut behind their men to the basket. Victor catches the ball, turns and immediately finds a cutter for a score. You do that enough times, and the defenders are going to start staying home, whether they respect the Spurs' shooting or not. (EDIT to say this is likely what Memphis was scared of and why they abandoned the paint the second the Spurs did anything other than trying to force that entry pass).

The biggest thing is that high-lows are timing/chemistry actions often done on the fly to counter certain types of defenses. That second video features Tim as the scorer, and you can see how he is reading the floor and syncing him movements to line up with the passes. Tim reads the floor, sees a high-low needs to happen and stops calling for the ball. As soon as the pass is made to the high-man, Tim seals his man, creates the target window and calls for the ball. Understanding when the windows in the offense are so you can be "open" at the right time is essential to good off-ball play, be it in plays like this, duck-ins, rolls, curls, transition etc. This isn't something Wemby's teammates do for him. It's something he and the other players learn and then watch film, talk it out and practice to get it right. That action isn't as easy to do in general now with the lack of a second big, and it wouldn't be a counter to that tight of a defense that doesn't care about anyone else on the court, but any timing play is worth them learning and incorporating, because teams aren't going to stop defending Wemby this way until it stops working. (EDIT only to say that the way Pop was directing this high-low indeed suggests the Spurs are working on ways to get Wemby the ball besides raw post-ups. You can see from Wemby's reaction that this was an action specifically worked on by the team. It's good stuff. )

[get_mills_out]

:pop:

[get_mills_out]

https://i.imgur.com/7nptCwp.png