Windhorst: Wembanyama Not Thrilled With Where Spurs Are; Doesn't Think Spurs Can Get Away With Slow Build

[TD 21]

Previewing Chet vs. Wemby Part III 🍿 | NBA Today (youtube.com) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3g-EVxhL5U&list=PLu1neCd4swua1au5WztuCxM70xUnkOXRH)

[MannyIsGod]

He said the same thing on his podcast recently. He does have some ties to the Wemby camp so he's not likely speaking out of his ass. On his pod he wasn't saying the Spurs should rush anything, but he thinks they need to be better than they are this year which I mean yeah.

[DesignatedT]

This is a big nothing burger.

Sure Wemby wants to win... as does everyone associated with the Spurs. But I don't believe that Wemby doesn't see the long-term benefits of this year (highest usage rate of all time for a rookie). This IS the Spurs accelerating his timeline.

Now he wants more help next year but there's nothing to complain about yet.

[Mugen]

Save us, Wemby!

[z0sa]

This team isn't great, but it absolutely should be better than last season. If you assume the players actually should improve naturally and don't actually have any real chemistry issues (IE everyone wants to win, but doesn't understand how), that leaves the shitbag square in the lap of the oldest, most tired one on the team - Popovich.

I've been a Popovich supporter forever but this season is the end of that support. He's failed, and miserably. The only plausible explanation is the so called stealth tank - and that makes no sense in this draft, or with this generational talent's goals and aspirations.

[KingKev]

Put some respekt on Keldon, Vassell and Sochan’s names. If we still had Primo it would be GAME OVER!!!

[tonight...you]

Put some respekt on Keldon, Vassell and Sochan’s names. If we still had Primo it would be GAME OVER!!!
Primo would lead the league in deflections with his peener right now.

[objective]

Dunc'd On had a but where they were praising Memphis and Tyler Jenkins for their defense which is still rated very good despite having tons of injuries,10 day players and rookies. They're even good defensively with Jaren Jackson Jr off the court.

Meanwhile Spurs have continuity, lotto picks, and their defense is pure ass

Pop is done

[spurraider21]

Save us, Wemby!
https://kslnewsradio.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/32375-620x370.jpg

[scott]

Thanks for starting the dedicated thread, TD 21!

As I said in the other thread, this was obvious to everyone who has listened to Wemby's words since the draft and throughout the season, let alone the visual cues. I'm encouraged that 1) he is communicating this to the Spurs and 2) at least for now it appears the Spurs are listening and know they need to make big changes this summer.

LOL @ the sniffers who tried to tell us this is what Wemby expected and is completely okay with it

[objective]

Has someone explained to Wemby that the 2027 Atlanta pick is only 3 years away from being 3 years away from stardom?

We have to wait and develop Collins, Branham, and Champagnie

[Mugen]

https://kslnewsradio.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/32375-620x370.jpg

prayingdog.jpg

[cjw]

The Collins contract is a bummer - he was attractive on his current deal, but impacts flexibility heading into the offseason.

Graham’s deal screams that he’ll be traded to a team looking for cap relief around the draft with only a few million guaranteed.

I have a feeling Keldon will be the odd man out if they’re looking to make a splash and trade for an impact player (along with picks being sent out the door). Easy to use him to make salaries match, though Spurs will have cap space to absorb someone into and can send out a trade exception.

They’re in good shape as long as Wemby is costing as little as he does, though drafting higher in the lotto means those guys will take up more of the cap too. He’s also going to possibly draw get FAs to sign at the minimum, so need to use remaining cap space prudently.

[couchman]

This shouldn't be breaking news to the Spurs but they probably need to be bashed over the head with it to understand that Wemby has not been kidding around when he says he wants to win and win big and as soon as possible.

The pressure on Pop also has to be.. at least starting to be real?
I don't think he can get away with coaching his way through another season like this one.
Everyone wants to see us be better next year and Wemby is first on that list.

[Das Texan]

This shouldn't be breaking news to the Spurs but they probably need to be bashed over the head with it to understand that Wemby has not been kidding around when he says he wants to win and win big and as soon as possible.

The pressure on Pop also has to be.. at least starting to be real?
I don't think he can get away with coaching his way through another season like this one.
Everyone wants to see us be better next year and Wemby is first on that list.

This team seems to be regressing and/or players are at best plateauing.

That should not be acceptable and thats entirely on the coaching staff.

[onechance87]

front office needs to gut this team.Half these players should be gone this offseason.None of these guys have
any connection with wemby....Every player has been a disapointment this season.

[Leetonidas]

Don't worry Wemby. Trae is coming this summer

[Frenchfred]

Don't worry Wemby. Trae is coming this summer

the error would be to overpay for Trae to please Wemby and have no flexibility after to go after other players. But I guess that there is a pretty high chance that the Spurs will go after Trae

[Dejounte]

B-b-but this is year one of the rebuild!

[scott]

One real consideration, if the Spurs take the rebuild up to the next level, is that Devin Vassell (whether justified or not) probably believes that he is 1b on this team and it's future, when in reality on a winning team he should be like the #3 or 4 guy. Will He be able to adapt to this? IMO, better to just ship him out with the rest of the riff raff.

[tbdog]

I also feel the jazz are in the same spot with their stud big man. They have a competent team and they traded two starting swings fit picks.

I'm fine for spurs to do one more tank to get a top 4 pick this draft as a future starter. But this off season must be about creating a legit team.

[TekXX]

So Wemby won't be happy being surrounded by the tank team for the foreseeable future?

[onechance87]

One real consideration, if the Spurs take the rebuild up to the next level, is that Devin Vassell (whether justified or not) probably believes that he is 1b on this team and it's future, when in reality on a winning team he should be like the #3 or 4 guy. Will He be able to adapt to this? IMO, better to just ship him out with the rest of the riff raff.

We should fire wright first for this shit team he made.Then start getting rid of players.

[timtonymanu]

Good. He shouldn’t be. Yes, spurs are not title contenders tomorrow but they should be doing a shitload better than giving charity contracts to scrubs like Collins and call it an offseason. Trae already wants to come here. Stop that “culture before talent” crap. This isn’t the Tim Duncan Spurs anymore. The front office needs to step up way more.

[RC_Drunkford]

I hope Wemby starts complaining about the head coach soon. That's our only glimpse of hope to kick the old man out.

[vy65]

One real consideration, if the Spurs take the rebuild up to the next level, is that Devin Vassell (whether justified or not) probably believes that he is 1b on this team and it's future, when in reality on a winning team he should be like the #3 or 4 guy. Will He be able to adapt to this? IMO, better to just ship him out with the rest of the riff raff.

As much as Keldon is a black hole, I'm more in favor of moving Vassell. Keldon has at least shown a willingness to sacrifice his own role for the greater good (e.g., going to the bench). When I've seen them live, Vassell seems really pouty, and I have difficulty seeing him slot down the 1-2 slots requisite to put him in his rightful role.

[objective]

Vassell is the only teammate to show he's worth keeping

Getting better and better as the season goes on, unlike Keldon and Sochan trying to out disappear each other

Vassell in February:
11 games
33.7 minutes
22.0 points
4.5 rebounds
4.5 assists
42.5% from 3 on 6.6 attempts

[Frenchfred]

One real consideration, if the Spurs take the rebuild up to the next level, is that Devin Vassell (whether justified or not) probably believes that he is 1b on this team and it's future, when in reality on a winning team he should be like the #3 or 4 guy. Will He be able to adapt to this? IMO, better to just ship him out with the rest of the riff raff.

For sure, if the team brings a player like Trae, there will be less shot attempts to spread around. Wemby has 16 FGA, Vassel 15, Tre 7.5, Sochan 10 and Champagnie 4.8. Trae has 19 so pretty much the same as Tre, Sochan and Champagnie combined. Granted that Keldon will probably be gone and Trae, Wemby and Vassel will not play all their minutes at the same time but still there is only one ball.

[rankingtear]

This is where rebuilds fail. The problem Wemby does not affect wins as much as helio guys like Lebron/Luka. So there is so much gap between this team and a competitive one.

[LeBowen]

Best news all month, tbh.

Outside of Devin, Wemby probably realizes he's got a bunch of G-leaguers as teammates.
If Jeremy wasn't such an extrovert with his styling and demeanor, noone would think he will develop into a contributor on a playoff team.
Decent bench piece, best case scenario.

Others aren't even worth a mention.
Tre would be a subpar point guard backup, others would be third stringers or cut.

This roster is so bad that even with perfect drafting over the next few years, it would still be an awful team if PATFO doesn't trade for a few serious players and a few more veterans.
Fifth season in the lottery, Hornets are the only franchise with a longer streak.

Draft BPA this year and be done with it.
I don't fucking care about incredibly low chance to draft Flagg or Boozer, get our GOAT prospect some help because planning the rebuild with another low percentage gamble in mind would be inexcusable.

Spurs can easily get a running mate for Wemby and a couple more solid players while keeping all their picks.

[z0sa]

One real consideration, if the Spurs take the rebuild up to the next level, is that Devin Vassell (whether justified or not) probably believes that he is 1b on this team and it's future, when in reality on a winning team he should be like the #3 or 4 guy. Will He be able to adapt to this? IMO, better to just ship him out with the rest of the riff raff.

Interesting hypothetical. The dream - my dream, at least - is that Trae and Wemby hook him up with so many easy shots and ESPN highlights, he's not too worried about being that 1b/2 option any longer (or at least, as much).

Imagine a guy of Vassell's actually great skill level just shooting open corner three's/jumpers all night instead of having to work his ass off for almost every shot, you know? That would be a thing of beauty. I think he's smart enough to realize he'll play longer and thus make up any lost money in that scenario (by extending his career and his health).

We'll see, though. He got paid before Wemby, so it's unknown how he will take the pressure if, or (I hope, personally) when someone else slides in to take his place. As an aside, this is another reason why I don't think building through the draft is the right call, here. We need a #2 banana and if that's Risacher, Sarr, et all then Devin's not going to be happy. We might have a chance at good chemistry if we get an All-Star he's forced to respect on the court.

[spurraider21]

Vassell averaged 4.5 assists in January and then again in February, bringing his season average to 3.8

his consistency has left some to be desired, especially in games where wemby is out or struggling, he has failed to pick up the slack when needed to step into the primary role

[Mr. Body]

Dunc'd On had a but where they were praising Memphis and Tyler Jenkins for their defense which is still rated very good despite having tons of injuries,10 day players and rookies. They're even good defensively with Jaren Jackson Jr off the court.

Meanwhile Spurs have continuity, lotto picks, and their defense is pure ass

Pop is done

What lotto picks do the Spurs have? They have a #1 a #9 and a #11.

[scott]

Interesting hypothetical. The dream - my dream, at least - is that Trae and Wemby hook him up with so many easy shots and ESPN highlights, he's not too worried about being that 1b/2 option any longer (or at least, as much).

Imagine a guy of Vassell's actually great skill level just shooting open corner three's/jumpers all night instead of having to work his ass off for almost every shot, you know? That would be a thing of beauty. I think he's smart enough to realize he'll play longer and thus make up any lost money in that scenario (by extending his career and his health).

We'll see, though. He got paid before Wemby, so it's unknown how he will take the pressure if, or (I hope, personally) when someone else slides in to take his place. As an aside, this is another reason why I don't think building through the draft is the right call, here. We need a #2 banana and if that's Risacher, Sarr, et all then Devin's not going to be happy. We might have a chance at good chemistry if we get an All-Star he's forced to respect on the court.

That would be my hope too... I just get this "I'm the man" chip-on-the-shoulder vibe from Devin that I can't shake... and not in a scrappy good way.

[LeBowen]

What lotto picks do the Spurs have? They have a #1 a #9 and a #11.

Yeah, lets just forget about a certain #12 pick just because he's not on the roster anymore.

Spurs will have top3 odds in the upcoming draft and possibly another pick in #7-10 range.
If that's not enough to start winning games, then it's time for the entire front office and coaching staff to find another job.

[objective]

What lotto picks do the Spurs have? They have a #1 a #9 and a #11.

Yes, and that's more than what Memphis has been rolling out and competing and defending hard with

[onechance87]

Yeah, lets just forget about a certain #12 pick just because he's not on the roster anymore.

Spurs will have top3 odds in the upcoming draft and possibly another pick in #7-10 range.
If that's not enough to start winning games, then it's time for the entire front office and coaching staff to find another job.

agreed...........

[FuzzyLumpkins]

This team isn't great, but it absolutely should be better than last season. If you assume the players actually should improve naturally and don't actually have any real chemistry issues (IE everyone wants to win, but doesn't understand how), that leaves the shitbag square in the lap of the oldest, most tired one on the team - Popovich.

I've been a Popovich supporter forever but this season is the end of that support. He's failed, and miserably. The only plausible explanation is the so called stealth tank - and that makes no sense in this draft, or with this generational talent's goals and aspirations.

Or they are bad fits with Wemby.

[Mr. Body]

Yes, and that's more than what Memphis has been rolling out and competing and defending hard with

Memphis is losing as many games as we are. Just go be a Memphis fan if you want.

[Mr. Body]

Windhorst is an inveterate LeBron James rectum washer. He's a remora stuck to the asshole of celebrity. He showed up in France to interview Wemby as soon as he could and his ulterior motive is to get Victor to a big market, hopefully LA. Nothing he says should be taken seriously. Does the team suck? Yeah. Moving on.

[z0sa]

Or they are bad fits with Wemby.

Fair, but an all-time great coach should be able to at least produce more wins than last season's tank. I feel like +5 wins was expected, at least, as that was the over under in Vegas before the season IIRC (27.5).

[NASpurs]

Windhorst is an inveterate LeBron James rectum washer. He's a remora stuck to the asshole of celebrity. He showed up in France to interview Wemby as soon as he could and his ulterior motive is to get Victor to a big market, hopefully LA. Nothing he says should be taken seriously. Does the team suck? Yeah. Moving on.

Shut it cocksucker, you don't know shit.

[timtonymanu]

Shut it cocksucker, you don't know shit.

You son of a… I’m in!

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Fair, but an all-time great coach should be able to at least produce more wins than last season's tank. I feel like +5 wins was expected, at least, as that was the over under in Vegas before the season IIRC (27.5).

He has not been trying to win for awhile. Youre trying to backdoor into your preferred conclusion but you are far short of a deduction.

Winshares are not transferrable from year to year.

[DAF86]

I still wouldn't panick in the offseason and do a Trae Young trade, tbh. I would make the two picks, try to sign a couple of veteran free agents and see how the team looks.

If they are as much ass as this season by the midway point... I would just tank for Cooper Flagg and THEN throw the kitchen sink out the window with a Trae Young type trade.

If they, on the other hand, improve to a, let's say, a borderline play-in team, then it's time to assess and look where the holes are and be agressive in the next offseason to improve in those areas (could involve the Trae trade).

tl; dr: I would still not panick this offseason with a Trae Young type trade.

[objective]

Memphis is losing as many games as we are. Just go be a Memphis fan if you want.

:lol:

Blake Ahearn, Memphis assistant, former Austin coach, is a name to watch for future Spurs coach

[vy65]

It takes a special brand of pathetic loser to semen shield a sports organization that literally is unaware of your existence while constantly telling people online to kill themselves. What a miserable fucking existence.

[DAF86]

It takes a special brand of pathetic loser to semen shield a sports organization that literally is unaware of your existence while constantly telling people online to kill themselves. What a miserable fucking existence.

I want to believe he's a relative of someone within the organization.

[Dex]

One real consideration, if the Spurs take the rebuild up to the next level, is that Devin Vassell (whether justified or not) probably believes that he is 1b on this team and it's future, when in reality on a winning team he should be like the #3 or 4 guy. Will He be able to adapt to this? IMO, better to just ship him out with the rest of the riff raff.

Trade our 2nd best player because you are worried that he might potentially get his feelings hurt about future talent? :rolleyes

Shit, might as well just trade Wemby now because he MIGHT be upset in 5 years, we should probably just get ahead of it

[TheGreatYacht]

Good on Victor showing his alpha traits and putting pressure on a fat and content PATFO. He continues to throw shots about the poverty he's stuck in every game. After the Minny game he said it doesn't matter if you're the best defender in the league, it means nothing if you don't have others helping him and fortunately Gobert doesn't have that problem. This team only has 2 good players, the rest are no defense playing hero ballers.

Trade Jeremy Soshit since fluking his way into the Rising Stars game will be the peak of his trade value. He has half the morons in this fan base fooled into thinking he's some good defender because he paints his hair like Rodman, so I have no doubt there's an idiot GM out there that will bite. Branham is the second worst player on the team behind Collins. Wesley is as mid as it gets and that effort he put in is gone now that he's a rotation player, legitimately provides nothing a G-Leaguer with heart couldn't give you. Keldon is who he is which is not a starter on any contender.

Trade Atlanta their picks back and Keldon for Trae. Try and outbid OKC's trade package for Markkanen, it's going to be nearly impossible to do that with their chest of picks but you never know... At least if we lose out you force that fucker Presti to overpay. Rough free agent options to pick from but if you wanted any upgrades on defense you can't go wrong with any of the following: Nic Claxton, Mo Bamba, Bol Bol, Tyus Jones.

[playbonner15]

I still wouldn't panick in the offseason and do a Trae Young trade, tbh. I would make the two picks, try to sign a couple of veteran free agents and see how the team looks.

If they are as much ass as this season by the midway point... I would just tank for Cooper Flagg and THEN throw the kitchen sink out the window with a Trae Young type trade.

If they, on the other hand, improve to a, let's say, a borderline play-in team, then it's time to assess and look where the holes are and be agressive in the next offseason to improve in those areas (could involve the Trae trade).

tl; dr: I would still not panick this offseason with a Trae Young type trade.

What sucks is that Flagg will not yet declare for the draft next season... which means Spurs will still tank for 2/3 more seasons to get him.. it's gonna be a painful rebuild if that's the scenario

[Seventyniner]

Calling Vassell a #4 on a good team is drastically underselling him imo. By the time the Spurs are good he will be good enough to easily be the #3. Maybe even a #2b if he continues to improve.

[Pauleta14]

Wemby changed TWICE teams between 16 and 18 because he thought it wasn't the right place for his ambition and some of you think he'll hesitate to push for a trade?

It'll never go public, not his education, at best it'll be insinuated.

He'll also never backstab the Spurs, meaning he'll try his best to lobby before taking the radical option.

[heyheymymy]

lol at wind hole

[z0sa]

He has not been trying to win for awhile. Youre trying to backdoor into your preferred conclusion but you are far short of a deduction.

Winshares are not transferrable from year to year.

A professional sports coach is expected to pull out more wins post #1 draft pick than the season before getting the aforementioned #1 pick, true or false?

[spurraider21]

I want to believe he's a relative of someone within the organization.
i wouldve assumed pops wife but she got over herself

made that same joke years ago when it was way too soon and was in poor taste. im ok with it now

[scott]

A professional sports coach is expected to pull out more wins post #1 draft pick than the season before getting the aforementioned #1 pick, true or false?

To fully rebuild, we must take the team all the way down to zero wins

[LeBowen]

Trade Atlanta their picks back and Keldon for Trae. Try and outbid OKC's trade package for Markkanen, it's going to be nearly impossible to do that with their chest of picks but you never know... At least if we lose out you force that fucker Presti to overpay. Rough free agent options to pick from but if you wanted any upgrades on defense you can't go wrong with any of the following: Nic Claxton, Mo Bamba, Bol Bol, Tyus Jones.

I'd rather go Naz Reid since TWolves will have to get rid of someone due to their cap situation and then one of Trey Murphy or Herb Jones because both want to start and NOLA needs to improve some other areas.
Trae/Devin/Herb/Naz/Wemby would be a legit team and Spurs would still have some assets left.

A couple of veterans for the bench. Clean house from these charity cases and scrubs with no fundamentals.
Tre can stay, others not so much. Maybe Sidy develops.

[CGD]

I’m new to the Windhorst experiment, but I kinda am left feeling like he’s mostly full of shit/conjecture/restating obvious things. But people like him for some reason, and God knows it’s not his Java the Hutt looks. Maybe he’s on to something?

[scott]

I’m new to the Windhorst experiment, but I kinda am left feeling like he’s mostly full of shit/conjecture/restating obvious things. But people like him for some reason, and God knows it’s not his Java the Hutt looks. Maybe he’s on to something?

Zach Lowe essentially validating Windhorst provides a lot of credibility for me, personally.

[CGD]

^ Zach Lowe for sure. Didn’t realize he said it too.

[spurraider21]

Lowe didn’t seem to be referring to any inside knowledge he had tbh

i miss columnist Lowe. Now he’s just typical talk very loudly and animated on tv guy

[poopbox]

This team isn't great, but it absolutely should be better than last season. If you assume the players actually should improve naturally and don't actually have any real chemistry issues (IE everyone wants to win, but doesn't understand how), that leaves the shitbag square in the lap of the oldest, most tired one on the team - Popovich.

I've been a Popovich supporter forever but this season is the end of that support. He's failed, and miserably. The only plausible explanation is the so called stealth tank - and that makes no sense in this draft, or with this generational talent's goals and aspirations.

The spurs didn't really get worse, it's just that all those other teams stop tanking and are now trying to win and/or they had players and coaches take a leap and we didn't.

Last year lots of teams were driving 40 mph trying to get Victor. Now that's over. They are back to driving 60 mph. It's just that the Spurs are still driving 40 mph.

[CGD]

Agree, but Lowe is still the best of that group of analysts in my view (Simmons, windhorse, rosillo, etc).

[Chinook]

We're not hearing anything about Wemby not believing in Pop, so I don't know that we should expect a new coach next year. If coaching is the "real problem", how far do people expect the team to improve if they make modest changes and keep the same braintrust intact?

I'm not actually anti-Windhorst. Dude's worked hard to carve out a legit career. He does have a tendency to "paint a picture" with what he hears rather than just sharing a rumor. That means he can mischaracterize things even if there are real elements he hears.

It would worry me if Wemby is comparing himself to Chet. I'm not going to set aside any discussion of Wemby's psychology, both because I don't presume to know him and because even speculating would make sense in a different thread when I have more time. But that segment felt weird where Windhorst compared the Spurs to the Thunder as if Chet "had a better supporting cast". Chet IS the supporting cast. SGA is the MVP candidate. The idea that the Spurs should be able to put a guy like SGA around Wemby in a year rather than "build like Presti did" -- it's weird man. It makes way more sense to compare SGA to Wemby to show why taking the time to build correctly pays dividends. As I've said before, there are options for how the Spurs could be a contender next year. It would require drastic action, and the result would be that Wemby is the Robin to some proven Batman.

There are two questions here: 1) Does Wemby want Young? 2) If the Spurs get Young and it doesn't work, is Wemby going to be understanding and stay committed to the team, or is he going to dip like so many stars did in similar situations? 1) Seems like a yes, though that could be the result of heuristic bias. 2) Is a much more complicated question, but it's one that is important to get a handle on. If Wemby is going to extert his influence over the front office to change away from their plans and do what he (a 20-year-old who definitely isn't a GM) wants, will he take responsibility for the trades not working out?

We don't know how PATFO plans to get out of this situation. They seemingly made a strong decision to play for the top of this draft. They also made the strong decision to not bring in any vets. Do they think that will work out? If they really like someone in this class -- like him like they liked Kawhi. They should stick with that. They could be drafting Primo 2.0, but you have to either let them do that or fire them. You trust Wright's vision or you get a new GM. You can't make panic deals because your rookie has enough competitive spirit to not want to lose games.

[poopbox]

Wemby changed TWICE teams between 16 and 18 because he thought it wasn't the right place for his ambition and some of you think he'll hesitate to push for a trade?

It'll never go public, not his education, at best it'll be insinuated.

He'll also never backstab the Spurs, meaning he'll try his best to lobby before taking the radical option.

I find it funny people don't understand this and I just assume no one literally followed him or watched him play until he got to San Antonio.

The exact thing fans are trying to convince himself that he won't do...he has literally already done twice before being old enough to legally drink a beer :rollin

It's like women who get in a relationship with a man...who was already in a relationship with another woman...but then being like "but he won't cheat on me" when he cheated on the last woman to be with the woman who thinks he won't cheat on her...

And this team is unfathomably bad. Had we drafted anybody other than Wemby we would be entering worst team of all time territory.

[Knoxxx]

May want to consider what Wemby is ACTUALLY saying:

https://clutchpoints.com/spurs-victor-wembanyama-teases-inspiring-future-rivalry-with-thunder-shai-gilgeous-alexander

[poopbox]

We're not hearing anything about Wemby not believing in Pop, so I don't know that we should expect a new coach next year. If coaching is the "real problem", how far do people expect the team to improve if they make modest changes and keep the same braintrust intact?

I'm not actually anti-Windhorst. Dude's worked hard to carve out a legit career. He does have a tendency to "paint a picture" with what he hears rather than just sharing a rumor. That means he can mischaracterize things even if there are real elements he hears.

It would worry me if Wemby is comparing himself to Chet. I'm not going to set aside any discussion of Wemby's psychology, both because I don't presume to know him and because even speculating would make sense in a different thread when I have more time. But that segment felt weird where Windhorst compared the Spurs to the Thunder as if Chet "had a better supporting cast". Chet IS the supporting cast. SGA is the MVP candidate. The idea that the Spurs should be able to put a guy like SGA around Wemby in a year rather than "build like Presti did" -- it's weird man. It makes way more sense to compare SGA to Wemby to show why taking the time to build correctly pays dividends. As I've said before, there are options for how the Spurs could be a contender next year. It would require drastic action, and the result would be that Wemby is the Robin to some proven Batman.

There are two questions here: 1) Does Wemby want Young? 2) If the Spurs get Young and it doesn't work, is Wemby going to be understanding and stay committed to the team, or is he going to dip like so many stars did in similar situations? 1) Seems like a yes, though that could be the result of heuristic bias. 2) Is a much more complicated question, but it's one that is important to get a handle on. If Wemby is going to extert his influence over the front office to change away from their plans and do what he (a 20-year-old who definitely isn't a GM) wants, will he take responsibility for the trades not working out?

We don't know how PATFO plans to get out of this situation. They seemingly made a strong decision to play for the top of this draft. They also made the strong decision to not bring in any vets. Do they think that will work out? If they really like someone in this class -- like him like they liked Kawhi. They should stick with that. They could be drafting Primo 2.0, but you have to either let them do that or fire them. You trust Wright's vision or you get a new GM. You can't make panic deals because your rookie has enough competitive spirit to not want to lose games.

It doesn't really matter if Wemby compares himself to Chet or not, the league will. The NBA is built on rivalries and the league has anointed Chet as Wemby rival. Nothing Wemby can do about that. Doesn't matter how he feels about it every time they play each other these types of segments are going to be done and they are always going to be compared until one guy pulls away in production or accolades. Very much the same way that Chris Paul and Deron Williams were always seen as "rivals" as to who was the best point guard in the league until Williams fell of a cliff. Much the same way as Chris Paul and Steph were considered "rivals" until Steph destroyed him so many time and won so much and Chris never won anything. That's the way the league markets it's players.

And I don't understand where you guys get this "spurs made a strong decision to play for the top of the draft" from. Pop said out of his own mouth multiple times on media day that winning was a priority this season. So there are only 2 things that can be true about this whole the spurs are tanking stuff. Either Pop was just flat out lying when he said winning was important this year, which could be true, or Pop actually thought all the dumb shit he did as a coach this season was going to work and he actually thought these scrub ass players were going to take some sort of leap and when they didn't he was just stuck losing a shit ton of games.

I also disagree with them making a decision to not bring in vets. You don't "bring in" nba players. They choose to sign to your team. Why would any veteran player choose to play for the Spurs? They have an old fossil coach who isn't very good and seems to have one foot in one foot out, they are a small market, San Antonio is not a destination city, and the team has gotten worse every year for 5 years. Who would want to play under those conditions? If a veteran player is getting offered 40 million dollars to play in San Antonio, Dallas, Boston, or New Jersey, why would they pick San Antonio?

On the other hand Thad Young is a vet. Pop pretty much didn't play him when he was here. Demare Carroll was a vet. Straight up released him. Graham is a vet. He never plays. Doug was a vet. Literally the only player they traded. So maybe you are right. Pop doesn't even play the vets that he does have on the bench so what would make us think he would try to sign anything. Looks like he played his cards wrong though because the Spurs are being lt on fire from all angles right now. This front office had better crush it in the off season or this team might actually end up in Austin by 2034.

[daslicer]

It doesn't really matter if Wemby compares himself to Chet or not, the league will. The NBA is built on rivalries and the league has anointed Chet as Wemby rival. Nothing Wemby can do about that. Doesn't matter how he feels about it every time they play each other these types of segments are going to be done and they are always going to be compared until one guy pulls away in production or accolades. Very much the same way that Chris Paul and Deron Williams were always seen as "rivals" as to who was the best point guard in the league until Williams fell of a cliff. Much the same way as Chris Paul and Steph were considered "rivals" until Steph destroyed him so many time and won so much and Chris never won anything. That's the way the league markets it's players.

And I don't understand where you guys get this "spurs made a strong decision to play for the top of the draft" from. Pop said out of his own mouth multiple times on media day that winning was a priority this season. So there are only 2 things that can be true about this whole the spurs are tanking stuff. Either Pop was just flat out lying when he said winning was important this year, which could be true, or Pop actually thought all the dumb shit he did as a coach this season was going to work and he actually thought these scrub ass players were going to take some sort of leap and when they didn't he was just stuck losing a shit ton of games.

I also disagree with them making a decision to not bring in vets. You don't "bring in" nba players. They choose to sign to your team. Why would any veteran player choose to play for the Spurs? They have an old fossil coach who isn't very good and seems to have one foot in one foot out, they are a small market, San Antonio is not a destination city, and the team has gotten worse every year for 5 years. Who would want to play under those conditions? If a veteran player is getting offered 40 million dollars to play in San Antonio, Dallas, Boston, or New Jersey, why would they pick San Antonio?

On the other hand Thad Young is a vet. Pop pretty much didn't play him when he was here. Demare Carroll was a vet. Straight up released him. Graham is a vet. He never plays. Doug was a vet. Literally the only player they traded. So maybe you are right. Pop doesn't even play the vets that he does have on the bench so what would make us think he would try to sign anything. Looks like he played his cards wrong though because the Spurs are being lt on fire from all angles right now. This front office had better crush it in the off season or this team might actually end up in Austin by 2034.

I never understand the hype for Austin here. It's a third-tier market that will never be able to compete with even the Orlandos, Charlottes, of this league.

[poopbox]

I never understand the hype for Austin here. It's a third-tier market that will never be able to compete with even the Orlandos, Charlottes, of this league.

Neither do I but there seems to be this thought process that if you put a pro sports team in Austin it will make bank. Maybe its because of how well the Longhorns games sell out...but damn near every college game sells out so who knows. Also the thought is maybe the young Holts would actually be open to moving the team for who knows what reason.

[scott]

Let’s all dispatch with the false dichotomy that the only choices the Spurs had this offseason were to be terrible, or to overpay for scrubs like FVV and Dillon Brooks. The expectations that we missed were not lofty, like making the second round of the playoffs or something… it was simply to be better than last year… last year, the franchise’s 3rd worst ever. The bar was set as literally as it could go.

We would not have had to make “costly mistakes” to achieve this goal. We could have signed a capable PG. We could have added a little more veteran depth. We could have just played the PGs and vets we have.

So who is responsible for this? The GM, and the Coach/President.
Chinook asked/posited the two questions/thoughts that matter most, IMO:


If coaching is the "real problem", how far do people expect the team to improve if they make modest changes and keep the same braintrust intact?


You trust Wright's vision or you get a new GM.

I continue to ask, and the only answer I’ve gotten is from Fuzzy, who is pleased with how they are handling Wemby, but I’ll ask again:

1) What has Pop shown in his entire career to give us confidence that he develop a young team/rebuild a team from scratch? What about his recent performance (call it the last decade) that gives us confidence that he can adapt to the modern game?

2) What has Brian Wright and the rest of the FO done to give confidence that they can assemble a team/rebuild a team from scratch. I’ll give him a lot of great, he gets an A+ for taking a team down to the studs and stocking the war chest… but that’s the easy part. What has he done in San Antonio or Detroit (LOL) to signal that he is the right guy? I do give Brian a little bit of a pass because we don’t know how much autonomy he really has, or if his boss is still pulling the strings.

[scott]

I never understand the hype for Austin here. It's a third-tier market that will never be able to compete with even the Orlandos, Charlottes, of this league.

Now do San Antonio

[Kawhi Duncan]

This is a big nothing burger.

Sure Wemby wants to win... as does everyone associated with the Spurs. But I don't believe that Wemby doesn't see the long-term benefits of this year (highest usage rate of all time for a rookie). This IS the Spurs accelerating his timeline.

Now he wants more help next year but there's nothing to complain about yet.

Highest usage rate means nothing when it isn't being utilized correctly... He doesn't have an offense built around him... He often scores on difficult shots and doesn't get the ball in schemes that take advantage of his versatility.... Many times he ends up just forcing difficult shots because we don't have a real offensive structure

[SpursBills]

It doesn't really matter if Wemby compares himself to Chet or not, the league will. The NBA is built on rivalries and the league has anointed Chet as Wemby rival. Nothing Wemby can do about that. Doesn't matter how he feels about it every time they play each other these types of segments are going to be done and they are always going to be compared until one guy pulls away in production or accolades. Very much the same way that Chris Paul and Deron Williams were always seen as "rivals" as to who was the best point guard in the league until Williams fell of a cliff. Much the same way as Chris Paul and Steph were considered "rivals" until Steph destroyed him so many time and won so much and Chris never won anything. That's the way the league markets it's players.

And I don't understand where you guys get this "spurs made a strong decision to play for the top of the draft" from. Pop said out of his own mouth multiple times on media day that winning was a priority this season. So there are only 2 things that can be true about this whole the spurs are tanking stuff. Either Pop was just flat out lying when he said winning was important this year, which could be true, or Pop actually thought all the dumb shit he did as a coach this season was going to work and he actually thought these scrub ass players were going to take some sort of leap and when they didn't he was just stuck losing a shit ton of games.

I also disagree with them making a decision to not bring in vets. You don't "bring in" nba players. They choose to sign to your team. Why would any veteran player choose to play for the Spurs? They have an old fossil coach who isn't very good and seems to have one foot in one foot out, they are a small market, San Antonio is not a destination city, and the team has gotten worse every year for 5 years. Who would want to play under those conditions? If a veteran player is getting offered 40 million dollars to play in San Antonio, Dallas, Boston, or New Jersey, why would they pick San Antonio?

On the other hand Thad Young is a vet. Pop pretty much didn't play him when he was here. Demare Carroll was a vet. Straight up released him. Graham is a vet. He never plays. Doug was a vet. Literally the only player they traded. So maybe you are right. Pop doesn't even play the vets that he does have on the bench so what would make us think he would try to sign anything. Looks like he played his cards wrong though because the Spurs are being lt on fire from all angles right now. This front office had better crush it in the off season or this team might actually end up in Austin by 2034.

Agree on all points. Wemby's been playing Chet for years, the media constantly compares them, and he gets matched up against him whenever they play. He's also savvy enough to know that great individual players get beat by great organizations all the time. If OKC wins the title in the next 3-4 years and the Spurs aren't either a serious contender or look like they're well on the way to building one, you're going to hear that clock tick louder and louder. The last thing Wemby wants is to be remembered as this generation's Wilt Chamberlain compared to Chet Holmgren's Bill Russell.

[scott]

I think everyone all around would be happy if the Spurs simply looked like a team on the rise. It’s assumed we are by some fans, simply by virtue and having Wemby and a lot of draft capital, but we are worse and until we actually start improving we won’t be a team on the rise.

[get_mills_out]

Jeff mcdonald was on 94.1 and made it sound like PATFO are shell shocked at how bad the supporting cast has been. Whether they clean house from a playerdev standpoint or take a serious look at the BB ops braintrust that thought this season was going to be about “learning how to win” remains to be seen, but he said to expect some serious offseason roster movement with an eye toward winning

[tbdog]

Don't compare Pop last two years coaching as a catalyst for his career. I do think Pop has purposely experimented to much with a poor roster to begin with. I think next season would give a better indication if Pop is still worthy of a Head Coaching label.

I do think the Spurs will accelerate the rebuild. But we won't be title contenders until Wemby is a top 10 player, which could be as early as year 3. Hence why I think the rebuild get accelerated.

Getting a high 1st round pick was always ideal. The fact we could have 2 is even better.

Going after trae is my ideal situation but I think Spurs will stay conservative by bringing in talented stop gaps. Like Fultz, Tyrus Jones, Monk. Valanciunas. Or trade for one of those teams shredding salary for a decent player.

And I to think Johnson is the odd man out once you got a little more talent around you.

[CGD]

Jeff mcdonald was on 94.1 and made it sound like PATFO are shell shocked at how bad the supporting cast has been. Whether they clean house from a playerdev standpoint or take a serious look at the BB ops braintrust that thought this season was going to be about “learning how to win” remains to be seen, but he said to expect some serious offseason roster movement with an eye toward winning

Interesting, will have to look for that. I can’t help put wonder if they’re most disappointed that Vassell didn’t take more of a leap. Keldon and Tre have also stalled, but they’re also more limited players to start.

[get_mills_out]

Doesn’t really need to be said tbh. I think PATFO are attached to a lot of incorrect priors about the modern NBA, but I don’t think they are fools. Vic is already good enough that you’d be foolish to try and do anything but put the best team around him.

You can’t really begrudge them for going into 23/24 with the goal of “seeing what we have”, but now that we know vic is a top 15 player at his age you need to be hitting the phones this summer turning Vassell/Norbit Johnson and all of these protected FRPs into players who win basketball games.

The crazy part is how many of your FRPs from the past few years aren’t on the roster or have basically no trade value. If I’m another GM I’d rather have two SRPs and cash considerations that Branham or Wesley

[z0sa]

Jeff mcdonald was on 94.1 and made it sound like PATFO are shell shocked at how bad the supporting cast has been. Whether they clean house from a playerdev standpoint or take a serious look at the BB ops braintrust that thought this season was going to be about “learning how to win” remains to be seen, but he said to expect some serious offseason roster movement with an eye toward winning

Thanks for posting this. I hope it's true. It would make sense, and if major moves do occur (which are smart), it will accomplish a great deal towards restoring (my) faith in the FO.

[get_mills_out]

Interesting, will have to look for that. I can’t help put wonder if they’re most disappointed that Vassell didn’t take more of a leap. Keldon and Tre have also stalled, but they’re also more limited players to start.

I believe his exact wording was that if they stood pat this summer he’d pick up a pitchfork and lead the charge to the frost bank center. Which, for the officially anointed Popsucker who is well connected within the team, are strong words

[tbdog]

Branham and Wesley still have a shot of being NBA regular rotational players. Giving up on youth this early takes a toll. But getting one starter material guard, especially a pg should be a priority. The next two draftees, Spurs and Tor pick, would be the next prospects. Hopefully one is at least a legit size swing player. So the spurs don't necessarily need to upgrade across the board or even swing for an allstar. But replacing champagnie and Jones into starting material players would go a long way in improving this team.

Hopefully Wemby and Vassell progression is significant. I think Wemby would be. Sochan will take more time.

Upgrading Zach would be nice to. I don't see that happening. Depends on the draft.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

A professional sports coach is expected to pull out more wins post #1 draft pick than the season before getting the aforementioned #1 pick, true or false?

You mean is a professional coach expected to do what you want? No, of course not.

I expect they should build a O'Brien winning team. Your extra X wins in year 1 for jollies is meaningless in that context.

I am fine with the tank.

[z0sa]

You mean is a professional coach expected to do what you want? No, of course not.

I expect they should build a O'Brien winning team. Your extra X wins in year 1 for jollies is meaningless in that context.

I am fine with the tank.

I'm noticing you couldn't answer a simple question.

I'm also noticing you, like everyone else on the shadow tank crew, are lacking anything resembling hard evidence a tank was actually planned or is being executed.

There's actually hard evidence to the contrary. Therefore, the only person making unrealistic deductions - and avoiding questions - is you.

[SpursFan86]

I don’t know, this seems like a non-event tbh. Victor is obviously a hyper-competitive guy - no shit he’s “not thrilled” with where the team is right now. Everything he’s said over the past ~9 months has been overwhelmingly positive regarding the Spurs. I don’t think he’s “losing faith” or anything like that…the guy just hates losing and is understandably frustrated.

That being said, I do agree with the notion that the Spurs shouldn’t sit around and take their sweet time with this rebuild. We know what we have in Victor now, and he’s probably further along already than most thought. This isn’t a situation where Victor is 3-4 years away from being “the guy”.

[get_mills_out]

I don’t know, this seems like a non-event tbh. Victor is obviously a hyper-competitive guy - no shit he’s “not thrilled” with where the team is right now. Everything he’s said over the past ~9 months has been overwhelmingly positive regarding the Spurs. I don’t think he’s “losing faith” or anything like that…the guy just hates losing and is understandably frustrated.

That being said, I do agree with the notion that the Spurs shouldn’t sit around and take their sweet time with this rebuild. We know what we have in Victor now, and he’s probably further along already than most thought. This isn’t a situation where Victor is 3-4 years away from being “the guy”.

The major media guys stirring the pot about Wemby wanting to go to LA/NY should be no surprise. Of course Wemby hates having to play 82 games with close to no chance of winning. All I would read into this is that Windhorst has zero sources within the spurs that he cares about burning

[scott]

Jeff mcdonald was on 94.1 and made it sound like PATFO are shell shocked at how bad the supporting cast has been. Whether they clean house from a playerdev standpoint or take a serious look at the BB ops braintrust that thought this season was going to be about “learning how to win” remains to be seen, but he said to expect some serious offseason roster movement with an eye toward winning

This is an encouraging level of self-awareness.

[ambchang]

The same guys who said wemby would be a great fit for LA before he was drafted.

I would say it’s reasonable for wemby to be frustrated with what is going on. The question is whether he has any trust in PATFO to move the team to the right direction.

[TheGreatYacht]

I'd rather go Naz Reid since TWolves will have to get rid of someone due to their cap situation and then one of Trey Murphy or Herb Jones because both want to start and NOLA needs to improve some other areas.
Trae/Devin/Herb/Naz/Wemby would be a legit team and Spurs would still have some assets left.

A couple of veterans for the bench. Clean house from these charity cases and scrubs with no fundamentals.
Tre can stay, others not so much. Maybe Sidy develops.
That’s literally an A+ off-season. Love Naz Reid. Made a thread about wanting him years ago but the search engine stopped working here, so I couldn’t bump it the other night

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I'm noticing you couldn't answer a simple question.

I'm also noticing you, like everyone else on the shadow tank crew, are lacking anything resembling hard evidence a tank was actually planned or is being executed.

There's actually hard evidence to the contrary. Therefore, the only person making unrealistic deductions - and avoiding questions - is you.

I answered your question. I was just pointing out that your expectation was really only what you wanted and that either way you put it the answer is no. I even presented an alternate expectation. Frankly your question is just self important nonsense.

I do not think they came in tanking. I take them at their word when they said they wanted to win coming in. I also take them at their word when they leak they fucked up their self scout and then trade their best shooter, start benching players like Wemby and KJ for teaching moments, and a whole bunch of other things that indicate that they do not give a fuck about winning.

[tbdog]

Also to note, these narratives will continue if Wemby stays in a small market.

[SpursFan86]

Victor seemed pretty happy in that post game interview on home court just now :lol

[scott]

It’s important not to confuse wanting better with wanting out. I think there are plenty of signs that Wemby wants to be a champion as a career Spur. Wemby is an incredibly mature and professional person, and it’s entirely possible for him to exert pressure on the FO without being a diva about it.

[DAF86]

I guess tonight's game is more in line with what PATFO had in mind coming into the season.

-Vassell as a dynamic scorer that can also playmake for others.
-Sochan, the best perimiter defender of the team but that can also contribute on the other side of the floor.
-Tre the floor general.
-Collins not sucking complete ass.
-And Wemby being Wemby.

I guess Keldon could have provided a bit more offensive punch.

[DesignatedT]

Highest usage rate means nothing when it isn't being utilized correctly... He doesn't have an offense built around him... He often scores on difficult shots and doesn't get the ball in schemes that take advantage of his versatility.... Many times he ends up just forcing difficult shots because we don't have a real offensive structure

That’s not the point. This season is a glorified practice for Wemby to see what he can and cannot do… one legged threes and all. He wouldn’t be able to improve his game this much this quickly if it wasn’t for all the freedom they are giving him.

[z0sa]

I answered your question. I was just pointing out that your expectation was really only what you wanted and that either way you put it the answer is no. I even presented an alternate expectation. Frankly your question is just self important nonsense.

I do not think they came in tanking. I take them at their word when they said they wanted to win coming in. I also take them at their word when they leak they fucked up their self scout and then trade their best shooter, start benching players like Wemby and KJ for teaching moments, and a whole bunch of other things that indicate that they do not give a fuck about winning.

Being a fan of a professional sports team is a self indulgence both of us are engaged in, dude. I disagree, strongly, that tanking is or was the goal - furthermore, you've yet to prove I made any sort of deduction at all. The players' - and coaching staff's - literal jobs are to win basketball games. You're the one with the burden of proof, not me.

You want to bring up a trade at the trade deadline as proof we're suddenly tanking, that's circumstantial at best. Or benching players to teach them a lesson? That could go down on a contender just the same as it does any other team. There's plenty of player interviews - from recently, including from Wemby - indicating that winning IS the goal right now, not tanking. Just take a look at our win tonight. This is NOT a team that's tanking on purpose. This is a bad team, whose coaching has been subpar. There's plenty of non-circumstantial evidence for this. And again, Pop BEFORE the season said it's about winning. Just because we're losing now doesn't give you carte blanche to act like that disposition has changed.

Also, I'm missing where you answered whether a coach is expected to win ball-games after being given a #1 pick. I haven't brought up the fact it's a generational talent with 55+ games to prove as much.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

It’s important not to confuse wanting better with wanting out. I think there are plenty of signs that Wemby wants to be a champion as a career Spur. Wemby is an incredibly mature and professional person, and it’s entirely possible for him to exert pressure on the FO without being a diva about it.

Spurs have a long history of excellent symbiotic relationships with their stars. You make it seem like Wemby is going to have to have some sort of confrontation or sit down to get his views heard. I think that premise is completely false and at best it is unfounded.

[get_mills_out]

Branham and Wesley still have a shot of being NBA regular rotational players. Giving up on youth this early takes a toll.

I don’t disagree per se, but I think the league is so talent-rich right now that I think the days of rostering 21 year olds who might be rotation players by their second contract are over. You see it with guys like Poku. Unless your express intent is to lose games on purpose, there really isn’t a reason to carry project players whose ceiling is “league average 8th man”. I think this is a very recent thing and don’t fault Wright for drafting a dozen 18 year olds over the last few years.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Being a fan of a professional sports team is a self indulgence both of us are engaged in, dude. I disagree, strongly, that tanking is or was the goal - furthermore, you've yet to prove I made any sort of deduction at all. The players' - and coaching staff's - literal jobs are to win basketball games. You're the one with the burden of proof, not me.

You want to bring up a trade at the trade deadline as proof we're suddenly tanking, that's circumstantial at best. Or benching players to teach them a lesson? That could go down on a contender just the same as it does any other team. There's plenty of player interviews - from recently, including from Wemby - indicating that winning IS the goal right now, not tanking. Just take a look at our win tonight. This is NOT a team that's tanking on purpose. This is a bad team, whose coaching has been subpar. There's plenty of non-circumstantial evidence for this. And again, Pop BEFORE the season said it's about winning. Just because we're losing now doesn't give you carte blanche to act like that disposition has changed.

Also, I'm missing where you answered whether a coach is expected to win ball-games after being given a #1 pick. I haven't brought up the fact it's a generational talent with 55+ games to prove as much.

I know you have not performed a deduction. As I said you fall far short oof one. Your logic is just asserting a possibility and claiming it is true.

I said the answer was no. This is three times now. I am sorry that your rhetorical gotcha question is not working out for you.

Hey if you want to think that they are doing everything they can to win then you go right ahead. Either way were in line for equal best shot at #1. I am okay with the outcome.

[poopbox]

Jeff mcdonald was on 94.1 and made it sound like PATFO are shell shocked at how bad the supporting cast has been. Whether they clean house from a playerdev standpoint or take a serious look at the BB ops braintrust that thought this season was going to be about “learning how to win” remains to be seen, but he said to expect some serious offseason roster movement with an eye toward winning

Being "shocked" at how bad the supporting cast is, is the exact type of thing that happens when you got a 72 year old running the show who has lost the plot.

[TheChillFactor]

yeah, victor really looked like he hates it here tonight...fatass honky windhorst is wrong as usual

[Das Texan]

The major media guys stirring the pot about Wemby wanting to go to LA/NY should be no surprise. Of course Wemby hates having to play 82 games with close to no chance of winning. All I would read into this is that Windhorst has zero sources within the spurs that he cares about burning

The same was said about David Robinson from the moment he was drafted.

nothing new here at all.

[get_mills_out]

Being "shocked" at how bad the supporting cast is, is the exact type of thing that happens when you got a 72 year old running the show who has lost the plot.

I mean.. if you were saying preseason that Vic would be an instant top 15 player in the league, and that the entire supporting cast would regress, hats off to you. McDonald’s overarching point was that PATFO, reasonably, went into the season in “see what we have” mode and were unpleasantly surprised that beyond Vic the cupboard is basically empty.

[mudyez]

Wemby doesn't get tired saying how happy he is to be a Spur. Can that change over the next few seasons? Maybe. But right now he is happyly pointing on the Spurs sign on his chest (see today after the win)...and not the Wembanyama on his back.

[z0sa]

I know you have not performed a deduction. As I said you fall far short oof one. Your logic is just asserting a possibility and claiming it is true.

I said the answer was no. This is three times now. I am sorry that your rhetorical gotcha question is not working out for you.

Hey if you want to think that they are doing everything they can to win then you go right ahead. Either way were in line for equal best shot at #1. I am okay with the outcome.

Thanks for finally answering a simple yes or no question. As for the rhetorical question I posed, in my humble opinion, it has accomplished exactly what I wanted it to. Now that you've answered, here's my response: since you think a regular coach (not even a HOFer) would not be held to the standard of improving his basketball team after securing a #1 pick, I find your position meritless and furthermore, utterly ridiculous. It flies in the face of both easily discovered NBA history and simple common sense.

You've taken Popovich literally saying winning is important and somehow came to this conclusion. In my opinion, that conclusion is obviously incorrect. Of course, you're entitled to it.

Moving on to the bolded, that's simply not true - in fact, you're the one who is projecting this. I'm open to the idea of the stealth tank, I just don't think it's true. Pop hasn't been able to get it done, that simple. If you want to actually argue the players don't fit next to Wemby, as you originally asserted, and which I directly acknowledged in my original reply, I'm willing to entertain the conversation. You'd need to actually make that argument, though.

[Tyronn Lue]

Few things from this thread.

1. Everyone here is well aware that Victor's camp wants Victor to experience success sooner than later.
2. Pop has zero pressure to win now, because Pop is a HOFer, legendary GOAT coach with the most lucrative salary in the history of NBA coaching. Worst that will happen is he recedes to just PoBO.
3. Winning more games but losing in the 1st round is still not winning now. In fact anything short of the NBA final 4 is just a later loser and maybe not championship material.
4. Too many act like Leonard was on a shitty team and left for a better one. While that is true in the micro it isn't in the macro. Leonard made 2 consecutive Finals appearances with the Spurs and won 2 DPOY and a Finals MVP. Outside of the flukey Toronto situation, Leonard has done jack shit since he left SA.

It seems like "win now" for Victor's camp and his fans is more "give Victor more accolades now". When he gets RotY and maybe DPoY and certainly 1st team all defense, he'll have a good start on accolades. If Victor is on a team that makes the playoffs yearly, he makes the ASG yearly, gets cool awards for defense and 1st team all NBA but no ring, he's really only getting individual accolades.

[The Truth #6]

This is an encouraging level of self-awareness.
I agree. As fans we want an acknowledgement of reality and not to be gaslit. For me, the deeper take is they need to acknowledge their role in the debacle (Sochan at PG was a long shot that was worth attempting, but they shouldn't be shocked that it backfired horribly.) Moreover, they can't be shell shocked all season. Shake things up. Barlow is playing well and the team is improving --seems like a good idea to give him more minutes, as an example. Lots of weird choices: lots of minutes for Branham, none for Graham, for example. Weird tunnel vision in how they look at players. Pop needs someone to tell him when to stop doing stupid stuff, and it usually has come from a player with clout, but there's no vocal leader yet on the team.

Anyway. Just rambling. Not directed at you, Scott.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Thanks for finally answering a simple yes or no question. As for the rhetorical question I posed, in my humble opinion, it has accomplished exactly what I wanted it to. Now that you've answered, here's my response: since you think a regular coach (not even a HOFer) would not be held to the standard of improving his basketball team after securing a #1 pick, I find your position meritless and furthermore, utterly ridiculous. It flies in the face of both easily discovered NBA history and simple common sense.

You've taken Popovich literally saying winning is important and somehow came to this conclusion. In my opinion, that conclusion is obviously incorrect. Of course, you're entitled to it.

Moving on to the bolded, that's simply not true - in fact, you're the one who is projecting this. I'm open to the idea of the stealth tank, I just don't think it's true. Pop hasn't been able to get it done, that simple. If you want to actually argue the players don't fit next to Wemby, as you originally asserted, and which I directly acknowledged in my original reply, I'm willing to entertain the conversation. You'd need to actually make that argument, though.

:lol well, there was a reason why I pointed out winshares are not transferrable. It comes down to how the stats are formulated season to season uniquely and the structure of the schedule.

Thinking that you can just take a win total from one year, make up some expected wins added in to the next year expectation and thinking you are making a statistically sound argument is just ignorant.

As I also pointed out, I want championships and right now staying in the bottom 4 helps us do that most. You can continue to grind your axe against Pop and doubt him. I do not share your views.

[kht]

Jeez... we're not even a half season in. Plus not like Wemby isn't making unforced errors on his end.

[Tyronn Lue]

Jeez... we're not even a half season in. Plus not like Wemby isn't making unforced errors on his end.
What? They've played 60 games, it's an 82 game season.

[get_mills_out]

I agree. As fans we want an acknowledgement of reality and not to be gaslit. For me, the deeper take is they need to acknowledge their role in the debacle (Sochan at PG was a long shot that was worth attempting, but they shouldn't be shocked that it backfired horribly.) Moreover, they can't be shell shocked all season. Shake things up. Barlow is playing well and the team is improving --seems like a good idea to give him more minutes, as an example. Lots of weird choices: lots of minutes for Branham, none for Graham, for example. Weird tunnel vision in how they look at players. Pop needs someone to tell him when to stop doing stupid stuff, and it usually has come from a player with clout, but there's no vocal leader yet on the team.

Anyway. Just rambling. Not directed at you, Scott.

I mean with graham they basically keep him on the bench as a gesture to his agent I assume. Much like Thad Young or that one guy whose name escapes me that pop just wouldn’t play until he went to the rockets and then retired. My assumption is they don’t participate in Pops geography homework assignments.

This years roster is just kinda skullfucked from top to bottom. 0 players got better and a handful got worse. They don’t have a single player who can both shoot and play quarterback with a live dribble.

[z0sa]

:lol well, there was a reason why I pointed out winshares are not transferrable. It comes down to how the stats are formulated season to season uniquely and the structure of the schedule.

Thinking that you can just take a win total from one year, make up some expected added in expectation and thinking you are making a statistically sound argument is just ignorant.

As I also pointed out, I want championships and right now staying in the bottom 4 helps us do that most. You can continue to grind your axe against Pop and doubt him. I do not share your views.

You make assertions like (paraphrasing), "Pop has been losing on purpose for a while now" and "building through the draft by tanking again is the best way forward for a championship." But you don't back it up with anything. Meanwhile, when I post that Pop is literally saying we want to win, Wemby is downplaying his 5x5 game because of losses, Vassell is saying everyone is focused only on winning, et cetera, I'm the one making, or rather "falling far short" of a deduction.

There's no guarantee losing more this season will get us another impactful player with how mid this draft is, for instance. That, I would say, is what qualifies for falling short in one's deductive reasoning.

Or, even more egregiously, that losing is the best way for us to move forward and win. You're telling me, if the Spurs suddenly went on a streak and won say, 15 of their next 20, with our previously deadweight role players suddenly contributing and stepping up, it'd be a bad thing because our draft choice would be lower? And in this draft?

[Guru of Nothing]

What? They've played 60 games, it's an 82 game season.

Not if you bundle them... with a playoff run.

[scott]

Spurs have a long history of excellent symbiotic relationships with their stars. You make it seem like Wemby is going to have to have some sort of confrontation or sit down to get his views heard. I think that premise is completely false and at best it is unfounded.

If you read it that way, I apologize that you’re stupid.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You make assertions like (paraphrasing), "Pop has been losing on purpose for a while now" and "building through the draft by tanking again is the best way forward for a championship." But you don't back it up with anything. Meanwhile, when I post that Pop is literally saying we want to win, Wemby is downplaying his 5x5 game because of losses, Vassell is saying everyone is focused only on winning, et cetera, I'm the one making, or rather "falling far short" of a deduction.

There's no guarantee losing more this season will get us another impactful player with how mid this draft is, for instance. That, I would say, is what qualifies for falling short in one's deductive reasoning.

Or, even more egregiously, that losing is the best way for us to move forward and win. You're telling me, if the Spurs suddenly went on a streak and won say, 15 of their next 20, with our previously deadweight role players suddenly contributing and stepping up, it'd be a bad thing because our draft choice would be lower? And in this draft?

Well at least you have accepted your question was shit.

I am usure if Pop is doing everything he can to win. As I pointed out either way I like the outcome.

Spurs are famously opaque and I have accepted when it comes to what the internal workings I will be ignorant. You asking stupid questions in lieu of arguments is not going to pierce that veil.

Great win tonight. RotY in the bag. Wemby looks better and better. Still in the bottom 4.

[z0sa]

Well at least you have accepted your question was shit.

I am usure if Pop is doing everything he can to win. As I pointed out either way I like the outcome.

Spurs are famously opaque and I have accepted when it comes to what the internal workings I will be ignorant. You asking stupid questions in lieu of arguments is not going to pierce that veil.

Great win tonight. RotY in the bag. Wemby looks better and better. Still in the bottom 4.

The only thing stupid about my question was you answering it. You should realize it reveals that you have no real argument against what I'm saying, are simply posting to annoy people and try to sling shit for no other reason than your (unfounded, unproven, and incomplete) opinion is different.

Changing the subject to talk about ROY and our Bottom 4 position doesn't change that. We're bottom 4 because we suck, and Pop has failed. You can put your fingers in your ears and scream stealth tank instead, and I'm perfectly ok with you doing that.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

The only thing stupid about my question was you answering it. You should realize it reveals that you have no real argument against what I'm saying, are simply posting to annoy people and try to sling shit for no other reason than your (unfounded, unproven, and incomplete) opinion is different.

Changing the subject to talk about ROY and our Bottom 4 position doesn't change that. We're bottom 4 because we suck, and Pop has failed. You can put your fingers in your ears and scream stealth tank instead, and I'm perfectly ok with you doing that.

You going to address my argument about adding wins from year to year?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

If you read it that way, I apologize that you’re stupid.

So explain how he would exert pressure then. You just seem petulant.

[Chinook]

Jeff mcdonald was on 94.1 and made it sound like PATFO are shell shocked at how bad the supporting cast has been. Whether they clean house from a playerdev standpoint or take a serious look at the BB ops braintrust that thought this season was going to be about “learning how to win” remains to be seen, but he said to expect some serious offseason roster movement with an eye toward winning

To a certain extent, you can't deny the Spurs misread the team. There's no way on this planet they gave Collins an extension if they think there's any chance at all he'd be a poor bench player. They legit thought Zach could get more than that in free agency -- even with this modern NBA market. If Pop legit thought Sochan starting a PG was going to be a win-now move rather than a developmental one ... well that's certainly a strong opinion. But when you add in the lack of competition at camp (when it was becoming more apparent where the players actually were) and still never giving Graham a chance suggests the team probably did make the decision to play for the draft early on. After all, if you're trying to build through the draft, and the guys you've mostly drafted are disappointing, it just puts more emphasis on the need to have a higher draft pick. The last thing the Spurs need is some guy in the late teens taking up another roster spot.

It does make me wonder how serious their talks about Murray and/or Young were. If they were legit interested in DJM, they had the means to acquire him. That they didn't is either a sign they didn't particularly want him, or they valued this year's pick. That might even be more the case for Young, but with the increased value, there's more wiggle room there.

[daslicer]

Now do San Antonio

I have never lived in San Antonio, so I don't have emotional ties to the city. I have heard it's boring and dull compared to other markets. If people say it's a shithole it doesn't faze me in anyway.

[z0sa]

You going to address my argument about adding wins from year to year?

I find this argument obscure, at best, dude. You're reaching for straws, but if you want my honest opinion (other than it's irrelevant) is that winshares is simply not representative of situations such as these. Every generational talent who has actually gotten on the floor and met or exceeded expectations has turned their team around, at least, any that I can think of. This might reduce winshares for some players, sure - that doesn't necessarily mean they're a bad fit, even. It could just mean they are being utilized less. Honestly, I'm not seeing much of an argument here, tbh. It is what it is.

Wemby is basically the lone exception, and it's unfortunately, a bad exception right now. It's almost like you're really making the argument that the problem is Wemby, at least, judging from the evidence. I'm much more pre-disposed to think it's actually Pop, since this team minus Devin Vassel and Wemby managed 22 wins. Don't see how you get around it being one or the other, from your perspective.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I have never lived in San Antonio, so I don't have emotional ties to the city. I have heard it's boring and dull compared to other markets. If people say it's a shithole it doesn't faze me in anyway.

San Antonio does an awesome job of spreading out the poverty. You go around neighborhoods from Castle Hills to the Dominion and you will find some section 8 and a trailer park. You do not see the sea of ghetto like Houston, New Orleans, and up the Eastern Seaboard in places like Baltimore or Philadelphia or the trailer hells you find outside Louisville or Nashville.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I find this argument obscure, at best, dude. You're reaching for straws, but if you want my honest opinion (other than it's irrelevant) is that winshares is simply not representative of situations such as these. Every generational talent who has actually gotten on the floor and met or exceeded expectations has turned their team around, at least, any that I can think of. This might reduce winshares for some players, sure - that doesn't necessarily mean they're a bad fit, even. It could just mean they are being utilized less. Honestly, I'm not seeing much of an argument here, tbh. It is what it is.

Wemby is basically the lone exception, and it's unfortunately, a bad exception right now. It's almost like you're really making the argument that the problem is Wemby, at least, judging from the evidence. I'm much more pre-disposed to think it's actually Pop, since this team minus Devin Vassel and Wemby managed 22 wins. Don't see how you get around it being one or the other, from your perspective.

You don't understand stats and grandstand on a question based on them. It's okay. I particularly like it in light of you telling me I had no credibility.

[z0sa]

You don't understand stats and grandstand on a question based on them. It's okay. I particularly like it in light of you telling me I had no credibility.

ELI5, Fuzzy - I've got nothing to prove. I'll be glad to learn a thing or two about advanced stats, as I truly am inexperienced with them. What are you getting at using winshares in this specific situation with this specific team?

[poopbox]

I mean.. if you were saying preseason that Vic would be an instant top 15 player in the league, and that the entire supporting cast would regress, hats off to you. McDonald’s overarching point was that PATFO, reasonably, went into the season in “see what we have” mode and were unpleasantly surprised that beyond Vic the cupboard is basically empty.

Knowing that Victor would be this good this fast? Nope. Knowing that a player like Sochan who wasn't particularly good at anything in college isn't particularly good at anything in the nba? Knowing that playing him at point guard while he has absolutely no ball handling or passing skills? Knowing that tweener guards like Wesley and Branham might not be all that good? Knowing that undersized bigs who don't have any real offensive skill like Barlow and Bassey won't be that good? If you watch enough basketball none of this stuff is particularly hard to spot.

There are certain skillsets you see on all the top teams in the league. The spurs players don't have those skillsets. There are certain ways the top teams in the league are built. The spurs are not built that way.

Osman is a perfect example. Cleveland got thumped by the knicks in the playoffs and they said we need to get better. And what is one of the main ways they decided to get better? By getting rid of Cedi Osman, who spent all last year getting smoked on defense. And what did Cleveland do instead of playing Cedi? It doesn't really matter...what matters is that a team that is a lock to make the playoffs decided they had to get better, and one of the main ways they tried to do it was to stop playing a player that the spurs are currently playing pretty consistently. When you comprise your team of players that other teams that are good are trying to get rid of...your team is probably not going to be very good.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

ELI5, Fuzzy - I've got nothing to prove. I'll be glad to learn a thing or two about advanced stats, as I truly am inexperienced with them. What are you getting at using winshares in this specific situation with this specific team?

Aggregate stats are not transferrable from data set to data set without normalization. Your question's premise is taking 2023 wins and adding 2024 Wemby win contribution or 'first overall pick expected wins' whatever that is and then comparing it to 2024 wins.

1 2023 win != 1 2024 win.

[poopbox]

I still wouldn't panick in the offseason and do a Trae Young trade, tbh. I would make the two picks, try to sign a couple of veteran free agents and see how the team looks.

If they are as much ass as this season by the midway point... I would just tank for Cooper Flagg and THEN throw the kitchen sink out the window with a Trae Young type trade.

If they, on the other hand, improve to a, let's say, a borderline play-in team, then it's time to assess and look where the holes are and be agressive in the next offseason to improve in those areas (could involve the Trae trade).

tl; dr: I would still not panick this offseason with a Trae Young type trade.

Not sure why a trae young trade is a "panic". I'd view it as getting a really good point guard depending on what we have to give up. And most of what we would have to give up are trash ass players who shouldn't be on this team in 3 years anyway, like Keldon and Sochan.

[z0sa]

Aggregate stats are not transferrable from data set to data set without normalization. Your question's premise is taking 2023 wins and adding 2024 Wemby win contribution or 'first overall pick expected wins' whatever that is and then comparing it to 2024 wins.

1 2023 win != 1 2024 win.

I appreciate your insight, but it seems like we're still just having a differing opinion based upon what WS means in this context.

Just because the games aren't all built the same does not mean that a coach or, if you'd like, the players are unaccountable for winning more games before rather than after drafting a #1 pick. You're basically arguing that because different schedules are different, Pop and/or the team can't be expected to win the same amount or basketball gods forbid, more games. I find that absurd, honestly - which is why I believe your position to be meritless. It's as absurd as saying Pop has been tanking for a long time when the players and Pop himself are saying otherwise, in my opinion. There's every reason to believe the Spurs with a healthy Devin Vassell and a generational talent are better than the team which doesn't have either. That statement is based upon common sense, not necessarily any advanced stat. I looked up the last pick before Wemby just to see if this bears out at all, and Paolo Banchero improved his team by 12 wins in the following season. It's just obfuscation trying to argue the point if you're going to purposely be obtuse and say well, the schedule's aren't mirrored so that should discount any expectations. I'm assuming your position, as you've been less than forthright about it. Am I incorrect in believing you don't hold Pop or any coach to a higher standard when they add (now) proven talent to a team?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I appreciate your insight, but it seems like we're still just having a differing opinion based upon what WS means in this context.

Just because the games aren't all built the same does not mean that a coach or, if you'd like, the players are unaccountable for winning more games before rather than after drafting a #1 pick. You're basically arguing that because different schedules are different, Pop and/or the team can't be expected to win the same amount or basketball gods forbid, more games. I find that absurd, honestly - which is why I believe your position to be meritless. It's as absurd as saying Pop has been tanking for a long time when the players and Pop himself are saying otherwise, in my opinion. There's every reason to believe the Spurs with a healthy Devin Vassell and a generational talent are better than the team which doesn't have either. That statement is based upon common sense, not necessarily any advanced stat. I looked up the last pick before Wemby just to see if this bears out at all, and Paolo Banchero improved his team by 12 wins in the following season. It's just obfuscation trying to argue the point if you're going to purposely be obtuse and say well, the schedule's aren't mirrored so that should discount any expectations. I'm assuming your position, as you've been less than forthright about it. Am I incorrect in believing you don't hold Pop or any coach to a higher standard when they add (now) proven talent to a team?

Then you are not intuitive to go along with ignorant.

This is boring. Ciao.

[z0sa]

Then you are not intuitive to go along with ignorant.

This is boring. Ciao.

Boring is pimping WS as your answer for why Pop shouldn't be expected to pull out more games with Victor fucking Wembanyama on the team.

[Tyronn Lue]

Not if you bundle them... with a playoff run.
That's not part of the regular season.

[Tyronn Lue]

To a certain extent, you can't deny the Spurs misread the team. There's no way on this planet they gave Collins an extension if they think there's any chance at all he'd be a poor bench player. They legit thought Zach could get more than that in free agency -- even with this modern NBA market. If Pop legit thought Sochan starting a PG was going to be a win-now move rather than a developmental one ... well that's certainly a strong opinion. But when you add in the lack of competition at camp (when it was becoming more apparent where the players actually were) and still never giving Graham a chance suggests the team probably did make the decision to play for the draft early on. After all, if you're trying to build through the draft, and the guys you've mostly drafted are disappointing, it just puts more emphasis on the need to have a higher draft pick. The last thing the Spurs need is some guy in the late teens taking up another roster spot.

It does make me wonder how serious their talks about Murray and/or Young were. If they were legit interested in DJM, they had the means to acquire him. That they didn't is either a sign they didn't particularly want him, or they valued this year's pick. That might even be more the case for Young, but with the increased value, there's more wiggle room there.
I think it's just as likely (maybe not mutually exclusive) that the ownership was penny pinching and didn't expect to get the 1st overall pick, so wasn't prepared to front the dough to "go for it" this year, thus the additional ownership. We saw something similar the year after Dallas won the ring. Mark and company didn't want to pay for another ring, so they just rode it out and let critical pieces go. Eventually a team wants to turn a profit. I'll admit I have no idea what the financials look like on a winning vs losing team in a small market, maybe profit sharing from the NBA as a whole makes it almost a moot point.

[spursparker9]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfeUlFOEup0

[Dejounte]

https://x.com/balapattyszn/status/1763412433576624515?s=46

Good luck convincing this guy that the team is “right where it should be” if next year is going to be another losing season.

[The Truth #6]

I mean with graham they basically keep him on the bench as a gesture to his agent I assume. Much like Thad Young or that one guy whose name escapes me that pop just wouldn’t play until he went to the rockets and then retired. My assumption is they don’t participate in Pops geography homework assignments.

This years roster is just kinda skullfucked from top to bottom. 0 players got better and a handful got worse. They don’t have a single player who can both shoot and play quarterback with a live dribble.

The reason I bought up Graham is that he was actually playing a little bit the year before and then he's just totally dropped out of the rotation and from the outside looking in seems very happy and somewhat the opposite of a cancer, so I don't see why he wouldn't be playing because to me, most importantly, he's better than Branham by a long shot. And so my larger point is they need to stop the tunnel vision of getting so attached to the players they drafted versus the ones they got in trades and treat them equally. I don't think Graham is so much older that he somehow couldn't be useful on this team, a team that is dead last in three-point shooting.

[DAF86]

Not sure why a trae young trade is a "panic". I'd view it as getting a really good point guard depending on what we have to give up. And most of what we would have to give up are trash ass players who shouldn't be on this team in 3 years anyway, like Keldon and Sochan.

You would have to give up, at least, 3 or 4 (I don't remember how many the Hawks gave us on the DJ trade) unprotected picks for a player that might be too flawed to ever be part of a championship team.

[ambchang]

Honestly, to have Wemby being all giddy and addressing a home crowd after a win to "improve" the spurs to 12-48 is pretty embarrassing. I mean, that's a pretty low bar, the team played one good game, move on, learn from it, and try to repeat it. There really is nothing to celebrate.

[R. DeMurre]

Paolo Banchero improved his team by 12 wins in the following season.

I don't think that win increase can be attributed solely to Banchero. If you look at all of the impact stats and numbers, Franz Wagner's impact as a second year player that season was much greater than Paolo's as a rookie.

Wagner's on court +/- per 100 possessions was +0.6, and his on/off +/- was +10.2, which is a spectacular number.

Paolo's on court +/- per 100 possessions was -4.5, and hos on/off +/- was -4.4.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/ORL/2023.html

[poopbox]

You would have to give up, at least, 3 or 4 (I don't remember how many the Hawks gave us on the DJ trade) unprotected picks for a player that might be too flawed to ever be part of a championship team.

Well if the spurs have to give up anything beyond the hawks picks back to them and maybe a young player or two they probably shouldn't do the trade. If they can do the trade for that then all they really did was trade Dejounte for Trae and get rid of players like Keldon or Sochan who aren't good enough to be part of a playoff team let alone a championship one.

Also...the alternative to Trae is what exactly? To keep playing Jones, Wesley, and Branhim? Cause doing that has made us arguably the worst team in the league? Spend our own high draft pick on a point guard? Who says that player will ever be as good as Trae?

I'm not saying the spurs should be all in on a Trae Young trade, but they also shouldn't be walking away from one either. This team needs to drastically improve it's point guard play one way or the other. It's arguably the single biggest on the court issue the team faces.

[DAF86]

Well if the spurs have to give up anything beyond the hawks picks back to them and maybe a young player or two they probably shouldn't do the trade. If they can do the trade for that then all they really did was trade Dejounte for Trae and get rid of players like Keldon or Sochan who aren't good enough to be part of a playoff team let alone a championship one.

Also...the alternative to Trae is what exactly? To keep playing Jones, Wesley, and Branhim? Cause doing that has made us arguably the worst team in the league? Spend our own high draft pick on a point guard? Who says that player will ever be as good as Trae?

I'm not saying the spurs should be all in on a Trae Young trade, but they also shouldn't be walking away from one either. This team needs to drastically improve it's point guard play one way or the other. It's arguably the single biggest on the court issue the team faces.

Be patient and wait for somebody that doesn't have as big a question mark as Young has on defense. For example: a Donovan Mitchell. If not, yeah, I think I'd rather take my chances drafting and developing a guy without a clear weakness that could be exposed and exploited on a championship series.

[spurraider21]

The same guys who said wemby would be a great fit for LA before he was drafted.

I would say it’s reasonable for wemby to be frustrated with what is going on. The question is whether he has any trust in PATFO to move the team to the right direction.
link to windhorst saying wemby would be a great fit for LA?

[Cry Havoc]

I remember when SpursTalk used to make fun of Clutchfans. Oof how those days are over when you get 6 page threads like this.

Spurs are the youngest team in the league, ran a PF at PG for most of the season, lost some depth, and y'all think we should be winning an extra 10-15 meaningless games that still get us absolutely nowhere near the play-in?

:lol Christ this place is sad.

What's the ceiling on a 24 year old team that shoots open 3 pointers at the lowest clip in the NBA? I'd like to know what everyone was expecting this season from a team that can't shoot and isn't old enough to qualify for cheaper car insurance.

[poopbox]

Be patient and wait for somebody that doesn't have as big a question mark as Young has on defense. For example: a Donovan Mitchell. If not, yeah, I think I'd rather take my chances drafting and developing a guy without a clear weakness that could be exposed and exploited on a championship series.

Being patient and waiting on a star who never comes is how you end up with Tre Jones as your starting point guard.

Taking your chances in the draft is how you end up releasing a lottery point guard cause he literally couldn't keep his dick in his pants.

Also last time I checked Trae made it to a conference finals and Mitchell has made it where exactly? I'd easily take Trae over Mitchell, who is pretty much Trae without the passing.

[Silentbob]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfeUlFOEup0

"you traded Jedonte Murray"
"Vassal"

- Kenny the jet Smith

[DAF86]

Being patient and waiting on a star who never comes is how you end up with Tre Jones as your starting point guard.

Taking your chances in the draft is how you end up releasing a lottery point guard cause he literally couldn't keep his dick in his pants.

Being patient is also how you don't trade away guys like SGA or unprotected picks that could turn your franchise around. Two of the best teams in the league right now, OKC and Boston, benefited from teams panicking and making dumbass moves like giving away SGA or giving away a bunch of unprotected picks for "win now" moves that never panned out.


Also last time I checked Trae made it to a conference finals and Mitchell has made it where exactly? I'd easily take Trae over Mitchell, who is pretty much Trae without the passing.

Mitchell is more efficientet offensively and not a liability on defense.

[DesignatedT]

Trae is also 2 years younger at 25.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Trae is also 2 years younger at 25.

Problem with acquiring Young is that it forces you to move Vassell who is our second best player. No way you can have a championship team with those two starting.

[jesterbobman]

When is Wemby going to be the biggest draw to free agents to get them to come play with him. That should be part of the calculus - when can you get guys to come be part of a title team? Arguably, anywhere from next year is fine, though 2025 free agency (when he's had a full year as an all-star / all NBA level player) is probably most likely. I think there was definitely thinking around the league that he could be something like this, though I think the players were more sceptical, and he's an uncertain draw until he's shown it.

I wanted us to be a bit more in this season (over pay for Brook Lopez, trade for a Monte morris / Tyus jones type for 48 minutes of controlled PG play), but think the logic of working out how to play Wemby, and building to a title team is fine. Obvious whiff on Collins contract extension, but shit happens.

I don't think it's really worth full on tank /just keeping bad contracts next year, but I don't think an all in move using a bunch of assets to get one guy is a bit premature. Having this pick and the Raptors pick, future picks to cycle through more depth / quality pieces and the 2025 FA class seems like the best way to get towards a title level team. Doesn't help next year, so spending on some free agents on short term deals (ala the Pacers getting Bruce Brown) seems like a decent approach.

[Cry Havoc]

Also last time I checked Trae made it to a conference finals and Mitchell has made it where exactly? I'd easily take Trae over Mitchell, who is pretty much Trae without the passing.

:lol :lol :lol their games are so incredibly dissimilar that I'm convinced you've never watched either one play a single game. They don't even play the same position FFS.

[spurraider21]

Be patient and wait for somebody that doesn't have as big a question mark as Young has on defense. For example: a Donovan Mitchell. If not, yeah, I think I'd rather take my chances drafting and developing a guy without a clear weakness that could be exposed and exploited on a championship series.
i mean how many point guards in the NBA have no clear weakness? probably about 5?

just waiting for one such player to enter a draft, let alone be available when you are picking, could just mean waiting forever

Mitchell in a vacuum is a better player than Young but banking on signing him in free agency is while the gambit compared to trading for somebody who is going to presumably want to sign an extension and lock in

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Put this here too. Speaks to what the general media narrative about the Spurs is. Legs on Wemby and Pop.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mY1xGhfEHL0

[Sugus]

I remember when SpursTalk used to make fun of Clutchfans. Oof how those days are over when you get 6 page threads like this.

Spurs are the youngest team in the league, ran a PF at PG for most of the season, lost some depth, and y'all think we should be winning an extra 10-15 meaningless games that still get us absolutely nowhere near the play-in?

:lol Christ this place is sad.

What's the ceiling on a 24 year old team that shoots open 3 pointers at the lowest clip in the NBA? I'd like to know what everyone was expecting this season from a team that can't shoot and isn't old enough to qualify for cheaper car insurance.

Some sense in the thread, finally... The bitching and moaning is hilarious to read though, much like ClutchFans in that regard :lol:

[Cry Havoc]

i mean how many point guards in the NBA have no clear weakness? probably about 5?

just waiting for one such player to enter a draft, let alone be available when you are picking, could just mean waiting forever

Mitchell in a vacuum is a better player than Young but banking on signing him in free agency is while the gambit compared to trading for somebody who is going to presumably want to sign an extension and lock in

Yeah, Mitchell is a better player, but I wouldn't say no to Trae. He has a fantastic head for the game and it's not like there are a plethora of point guards who are both elite passers and + defenders. Shae, Jamal Murray, and... Ball? That's probably it. LaMelo would be an interesting get if he wasn't injured all the time, and he's also too limited offensively for what this team needs right now. Jrue and DeJounte are obviously good defenders but their passing skills and offensive awareness are much more limited than the other topflight PGs in the league. Luka is obviously the dream fit, even with his defensive issues, but short of that it's hard to see the Spurs landing a playmaking PG who's also an above average defender. They just don't exist in the modern NBA outside of a few fringe cases (and even SGA benefits on D massively from the way the Thunder stack guys behind him).

[FuzzyLumpkins]

"you traded Jedonte Murray"
"Vassal"

- Kenny the jet Smith

I see you mimicking him and not understanding what you are doing.

[Sugus]

Yeah, Mitchell is a better player, but I wouldn't say no to Trae. He has a fantastic head for the game and it's not like there are a plethora of point guards who are both elite passers and + defenders. Shae, Jamal Murray, and... Ball? That's probably it. LaMelo would be an interesting get if he wasn't injured all the time, and he's also too limited offensively for what this team needs right now. Jrue and DeJounte are obviously good defenders but their passing skills and offensive awareness are much more limited than the other topflight PGs in the league. Luka is obviously the dream fit, even with his defensive issues, but short of that it's hard to see the Spurs landing a playmaking PG who's also an above average defender. They just don't exist in the modern NBA outside of a few fringe cases (and even SGA benefits on D massively from the way the Thunder stack guys behind him).

The more time passes, the more I'm welcoming the Trae idea (pipedream as it may be). Especially after seeing their interactions during the All-Star weekend.

It's a matter of price at this point for me. I don't want for the Spurs to wait to cash-in on the Hawks' picks necessarily, but they're certainly highly valuable in any trade to other teams besides the Hawks themselves. We'll see the offers this off-season, though I doubt the Hawks go for this, on a "pride" basis if nothing else.

[Seventyniner]

Mitchell vs Young is a false dichotomy imo. If Mitchell is already so discontented in Cleveland that he has said he won't re-sign, even though he is playing well and the Cavs are a good team, I don't think he can be trusted not to do the same in San Antonio. If he signs here as a FA then it would be fine because he would be choosing to be here, but trading for him as a rental, even if the Cavs would bite, is extremely risky.

Young is a very different kind of player. He is a less efficient scorer but a much better passer in the PnR and specifically with lob passes.

It is quite possible for Mitchell to be the better player in a vacuum but for Young to be the better fit next to Wemby. Side-by-side comparisons without context don't really help.

[DAF86]

i mean how many point guards in the NBA have no clear weakness? probably about 5?

just waiting for one such player to enter a draft, let alone be available when you are picking, could just mean waiting forever

Mitchell in a vacuum is a better player than Young but banking on signing him in free agency is while the gambit compared to trading for somebody who is going to presumably want to sign an extension and lock in

I don't expect to get a flawless player, just not the second worst defensive player in the league.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/worst-defensive-rating-nba-player

[FuzzyLumpkins]

The more time passes, the more I'm welcoming the Trae idea (pipedream as it may be). Especially after seeing their interactions during the All-Star weekend.

It's a matter of price at this point for me. I don't want for the Spurs to wait to cash-in on the Hawks' picks necessarily, but they're certainly highly valuable in any trade to other teams besides the Hawks themselves. We'll see the offers this off-season, though I doubt the Hawks go for this, on a "pride" basis if nothing else.

The problem with Young is a potential Young/Vassell backcourt. It'd be like when the Warriors trotted out Curry and Ellis defensively but our guys aren't as good offensively.

[Cry Havoc]

Mitchell vs Young is a false dichotomy imo. If Mitchell is already so discontented in Cleveland that he has said he won't re-sign, even though he is playing well and the Cavs are a good team, I don't think he can be trusted not to do the same in San Antonio. If he signs here as a FA then it would be fine because he would be choosing to be here, but trading for him as a rental, even if the Cavs would bite, is extremely risky.

Young is a very different kind of player. He is a less efficient scorer but a much better passer in the PnR and specifically with lob passes.

It is quite possible for Mitchell to be the better player in a vacuum but for Young to be the better fit next to Wemby. Side-by-side comparisons without context don't really help.

We have a <5% chance of landing Mitchell.

It's more a thought experiment for me, trying to decide what/what type of players the Spurs should chase. I don't expect us to get Trae either, but there's probably a decent chance that he looks at what Wemby's doing and decides he wants to come here.

[spurraider21]

I don't expect to get a flawless player, just not the second worst defensive player in the league.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/worst-defensive-rating-nba-player
defensive rating/offensive rating are in large part team stats. its why you often see teammates clumped together, and why boozer always had an elite defensive rating on Thibs' bulls

im not saying Trae isn't a negative defender, he is. he has similar physical limitations that Tre has. but more than makes up for it imo

[Cry Havoc]

The more time passes, the more I'm welcoming the Trae idea (pipedream as it may be). Especially after seeing their interactions during the All-Star weekend.

It's a matter of price at this point for me. I don't want for the Spurs to wait to cash-in on the Hawks' picks necessarily, but they're certainly highly valuable in any trade to other teams besides the Hawks themselves. We'll see the offers this off-season, though I doubt the Hawks go for this, on a "pride" basis if nothing else.

IMO the good news is that something has to give. There are going to be dozens of free agents over the next 2-3 years, and it doesn't take much analysis to see that anyone who wants to be set up to win could go to the team with a 20 year old who's already being talked about as the next top 10 player in NBA history. You don't even have to be a ring chaser to want to play alongside that kind of prodigious talent. The Spurs have picks and tons of cap room to work with, so I have to think along the way we'll see a premiere point/SG put San Antonio at the top of their list and the deal will get done, even if we have to take their expiring and resign them.

[JPB]

For sure, if the team brings a player like Trae, there will be less shot attempts to spread around. Wemby has 16 FGA, Vassel 15, Tre 7.5, Sochan 10 and Champagnie 4.8. Trae has 19 so pretty much the same as Tre, Sochan and Champagnie combined. Granted that Keldon will probably be gone and Trae, Wemby and Vassel will not play all their minutes at the same time but still there is only one ball.

Would Trae come, Vassell would have to learn and mostly become a spot up shooter, in the SL anyway.

[JPB]

I remember when SpursTalk used to make fun of Clutchfans. Oof how those days are over when you get 6 page threads like this.

Spurs are the youngest team in the league, ran a PF at PG for most of the season, lost some depth, and y'all think we should be winning an extra 10-15 meaningless games that still get us absolutely nowhere near the play-in?

:lol Christ this place is sad.

What's the ceiling on a 24 year old team that shoots open 3 pointers at the lowest clip in the NBA? I'd like to know what everyone was expecting this season from a team that can't shoot and isn't old enough to qualify for cheaper car insurance.

Not regressing, to start... And not sucking so badly, when your coach himself in media day says that if last year was on developing the focus this year would be put on winning cos it's important for players confidence and validation of their work. And that is, adding a generational tlanet. Then, not having your coach looking lost at times, trying weird experiments, to the point you wonder if he's still up to the task...

You "wise cats" are on an extremely tiny minority right now. It's not just about spurs fans... Other fan bases, pundints, former and current players are basically seeing and saying the same things as we do...

Absolutely nobody, including yourself, was expecting this atrocious season. Don't come here, patronizing everyone, making your smart ass and pretend now you were...

[TD 21]

Now Wojnarowski just essentially said the same thing as Windhorst.

Johnson, Graham, Craptors 1st, Hawks '25, '27 1sts and '26 swap for Young and Griffin + Reid for Bulls '25 1st . . .

Reid/Sochan/Cissoko
Natural '24 pick (hopefully Risacher)/Champagnie
Wembanyama/Collins/Barlow
Vassell/Griffin/Branham
Young/Jones/Wesley

[DAF86]

defensive rating/offensive rating are in large part team stats. its why you often see teammates clumped together, and why boozer always had an elite defensive rating on Thibs' bulls

im not saying Trae isn't a negative defender, he is. he has similar physical limitations that Tre has. but more than makes up for it imo

Does he though?

I don't man, I don't feel strongly either way, that's why I said I'm constantly flip-flopping on this hypothetical move. If you ask me now, I wouldn't do it. If you wait for the right opportunity, I'm sure you can get a much better player than Trae for what he would cost, tbh.

[spurraider21]

Does he though?

I don't man, I don't feel strongly either way, that's why I said I'm constantly flip-flopping on this hypothetical move. If you ask me now, I wouldn't do it. If you wait for the right opportunity, I'm sure you can get a much better player than Trae for what he would cost, tbh.
offensively, his game is tailor-made for wemby, but notably, vice versa. we talk about how Trae could unlock Wemby, but Wemby could also unlock Trae. for as dynamic as he is offensively, the not so well kept secret about Young is that he's not a great rim finisher. he has gotten around that by having lob threats like john collins and clint capela keeping defenders at bay. now do that with Wemby.

im all aboard the young idea if the price isn't outrageous. if we pull it off and still have

Vassell
all of our own picks, and
the extra picks from TOR/Chicago and the Dallas swap

then its a no brainer imho

[spurraider21]

re: TD21's last comment, Raptors pick is hard to swallow with it looking like a perfect threading of the needle. if the trade for Young doesnt involve Collins anyway, im less excited about Reid

[scott]

IMO the good news is that something has to give. There are going to be dozens of free agents over the next 2-3 years, and it doesn't take much analysis to see that anyone who wants to be set up to win could go to the team with a 20 year old who's already being talked about as the next top 10 player in NBA history. You don't even have to be a ring chaser to want to play alongside that kind of prodigious talent. The Spurs have picks and tons of cap room to work with, so I have to think along the way we'll see a premiere point/SG put San Antonio at the top of their list and the deal will get done, even if we have to take their expiring and resign them.

While I hope you are right, you could have said the same thing at multiple different junctures in Spurs history but it never really panned out. Wemby may just be that different though.

[TD 21]

Mitchell vs Young is a false dichotomy imo. If Mitchell is already so discontented in Cleveland that he has said he won't re-sign, even though he is playing well and the Cavs are a good team, I don't think he can be trusted not to do the same in San Antonio. If he signs here as a FA then it would be fine because he would be choosing to be here, but trading for him as a rental, even if the Cavs would bite, is extremely risky.


No, it isn't. Mitchell prefers to be home in New York, but the Knicks are rightly not overly interested (negative overlap with Brunson) and the Nets don't have a path to championship contention anytime soon.

Meanwhile, the Cavaliers are a structurally flawed team (core comprised of two non shooting C's, two small guards and no 3 and D wings).

The Spurs obviously wouldn't trade for him without knowing beforehand that he'd re-sign.


Does he though?


I don't man, I don't feel strongly either way, that's why I said I'm constantly flip-flopping on this hypothetical move. If you ask me now, I wouldn't do it. If you wait for the right opportunity, I'm sure you can get a much better player than Trae for what he would cost, tbh.

I'd like to say no to Young, but this is a unique situation and he's likely the best they can do anytime soon.


re: TD21 (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=908)'s last comment, Raptors pick is hard to swallow with it looking like a perfect threading of the needle. if the trade for Young doesnt involve Collins anyway, im less excited about Reid

Reid is a true and rare combo big and the idea would be to relegate Collins to fourth big, which means spot minutes.

They could work him into a Young trade, but it'd mean taking Capela back, which would render Reid a strict PF.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Now Wojnarowski just essentially said the same thing as Windhorst.

Johnson, Graham, Craptors 1st, Hawks '25, '27 1sts and '26 swap for Young and Griffin + Reid for Bulls '25 1st . . .

Reid/Sochan/Cissoko
Natural '24 pick (hopefully Risacher)/Champagnie
Wembanyama/Collins/Barlow
Vassell/Griffin/Branham
Young/Jones/Wesley


You care to link it or did you just want to present a trade where we give all out capital for very little in return?

[ambchang]

link to windhorst saying wemby would be a great fit for LA?

https://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/37761677/nba-draft-2023-wembanyama-two-career-paths-spurs

Look at the “realistic” side. How being in san Antonio hurts his marketability and exposure on a national level.

[scott]

https://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/37761677/nba-draft-2023-wembanyama-two-career-paths-spurs

Look at the “realistic” side. How being in san Antonio hurts his marketability and exposure on a national level.

So you are admitting you just made up the LA part?

[TD 21]

You care to link it or did you just want to present a trade where we give all out capital for very little in return?

Full segment isn't in yet or at least I can't find it: Wemby wants to WIN IT ALL! He's a GEM! - Brian Windhorst | NBA Today - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6Pxe4GsOV4&list=PLu1neCd4swua1au5WztuCxM70xUnkOXRH&index=2)

You may not like those trades, but you either don't follow the league closely or don't know much about it if you think those are unrealistic or constitute "very little".

By the way, the Spurs would still have all of their own 1sts, the Hornets, Celtics and Mavericks ones and all the 2nds.

[spurraider21]

Full segment isn't in yet or at least I can't find it: Wemby wants to WIN IT ALL! He's a GEM! - Brian Windhorst | NBA Today - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6Pxe4GsOV4&list=PLu1neCd4swua1au5WztuCxM70xUnkOXRH&index=2)

You may not like those trades, but you either don't follow the league closely or don't know much about it if you think those are unrealistic or constitute "very little".

By the way, the Spurs would still have all of their own 1sts, the Hornets, Celtics and Mavericks ones and all the 2nds.
the real test of whether teams actually value these SRPs at all is to see if you can bundle like 8 of them for top 10 protected FRP

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Full segment isn't in yet or at least I can't find it: Wemby wants to WIN IT ALL! He's a GEM! - Brian Windhorst | NBA Today - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6Pxe4GsOV4&list=PLu1neCd4swua1au5WztuCxM70xUnkOXRH&index=2)

You may not like those trades, but you either don't follow the league closely or don't know much about it if you think those are unrealistic or constitute "very little".

By the way, the Spurs would still have all of their own 1sts, the Hornets, Celtics and Mavericks ones and all the 2nds.

Your claim as about Woj. You seem like you are just shit posting. and yeah i got that we keep all the picks that are unlikely to translate to firsts and get rid of all the ones that did.

[TD 21]

Your claim as about Woj. You seem like you are just shit posting. and yeah i got that we keep all the picks that are unlikely to translate to firsts and get rid of all the ones that did.

Sorry, I don't work for ESPN, so I don't control what or when their stuff gets posted to YouTube.

You didn't seem to and the point is, the cupboard would be far from empty.

They also wouldn't be stuck with this team forever because believe or not, good players have resale value and all the precious picks are unlikely to amount to as good of player(s) as they'd be getting.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Sorry, I don't work for ESPN, so I don't control what or when their stuff gets posted to YouTube.

You didn't seem to and the point is, the cupboard would be far from empty.

They also wouldn't be stuck with this team forever because believe or not, good players have resale value and all the precious picks are unlikely to amount to as good of player(s) as they'd be getting.

Well your interpretation of what Windhorst said was shit. Given that and the rest of what you post there is little expectation on anything different here.

Frankly, if I weren't a fan of the team and was thinking of a way for the Spurs to fuck it up going all in for Trae Young would be at the top of my wishlist.

[TD 21]

Well your interpretation of what Windhorst said was shit. Given that and the rest of what you post there is little expectation on anything different here.

Frankly, if I weren't a fan of the team and was thinking of a way for the Spurs to fuck it up going all in for Trae Young would be at the top of my wishlist.

Nah, it wasn't. You're just another myopic, miserable old fuck who wants something to bitch about and probably has an axe to grind with 95% of the players in the NBA despite barely following it for the last 10 or more years and having little knowledge of the game period.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Nah, it wasn't. You're just another myopic, miserable old fuck who wants something to bitch about and probably has an axe to grind with 95% of the players in the NBA desperate barely following it for the last 10 or more years.

there it is.

going all in for Trae Young is stupid. you know that and post it anyway.

now you're mad.

[manufan10]

https://youtu.be/hOBEZu8CTXs?si=LJ6X5KGbYr_ZoCRl

[spurraider21]

RJ 24 with the rare W

[TD 21]

there it is.

going all in for Trae Young is stupid. you know that and post it anyway.

now you're mad.

I'm not mad, you idiot and this doesn't have anything to do with Young. I don't care whether people are interested or not, my point is come up with something better that's not trying to recreate the past.

The title is literally direct quotes from Windhorst, yet you're shooting the messenger.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

https://youtu.be/hOBEZu8CTXs?si=LJ6X5KGbYr_ZoCRl

Of course it is Perkins with the all in take.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I'm not mad, you idiot and this doesn't have anything to do with Young. I don't care whether people are interested or not, my point is come up with something better that's not trying to recreate the past.

The title is literally direct quotes from Windhorst, yet you're shooting the messenger.

you really do not want to address the stupidity of the Young all in you presented. I get that you want to focus on the association con but sorry you look stupid.

[TD 21]

you really do not want to address the stupidity of the Young all in you presented. I get that you want to focus on the association con but sorry you look stupid.

I've done it ad nauseam. I didn't want to inundate this thread with it, but as I alluded to, come up with something better for this unique situation (GOAT level prospect too good/uninterested in slow build).

Again, it's not all in. That's what the Bucks, Mavericks, Suns, etc. have done, where they're basically tapped out expendable assets and they've got old/aging, flawed teams around their homegrown superstar or star.

The Spurs would still be young, with upside and a good amount of draft capital so if they're too flawed they can pivot.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I've done it ad nauseam. I didn't want to inundate this thread with it, but as I alluded to, come up with something better for this unique situation (GOAT level prospect too good/uninterested in slow build).

Again, it's not all in. That's what the Bucks, Mavericks, Suns, etc. have done, where they're basically tapped out expendable assets and they've got old/aging, flawed teams around their homegrown superstar or star.

The Spurs would still be young, with upside and a good amount of draft capital so if they're too flawed they can pivot.

You are basically taking all of the assets we have acquired over the past several years and trade all of it that is worth more than a couple second rounders for Trae Young.

It's cute that you justify it with more nonsense.

This is more the type of thing that a covetous person would propose for his opponent.

[Cry Havoc]

You are basically taking all of the assets we have acquired over the past several years and trade all of it that is worth more than a couple second rounders for Trae Young.

It's cute that you justify it with more nonsense.

This is more the type of thing that a covetous person would propose for his opponent.

Just curious, I agree not going all in for Trae but do you just not want him at all? What would you give for Young at this point, and if you aren't after him, what's the pg on the horizon we could realistically get that would take us to the next echelon?

[TD 21]

The Lowe Post on Apple Podcasts (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-lowe-post/id986595124): 104:28



You are basically taking all of the assets we have acquired over the past several years and trade all of it that is worth more than a couple second rounders for Trae Young.

It's cute that you justify it with more nonsense.

This is more the type of thing that a covetous person would propose for his opponent.

Again, not answering the question and resorting to ad homenim.

Everything changed with Wembanyama. They get Young, that's the bones (throw in Vassell and hopefully the natural '24 pick) of an eventual championship contender, which is the whole point of accumulating picks to begin with.

[DAF86]

RJ 24 with the rare W

As in Richard Jefferson? Did he say something?

[manufan10]

Of course it is Perkins with the all in take.

Woj literally says the Spurs need to move quickly and Perk reiterated that.

[spurraider21]

As in Richard Jefferson? Did he say something?
nah thats just what i call TD 21 because he's usually softer than wet toilet paper and doesnt deserve that username

[Knoxxx]

It’s going to be a loooong offseason…

[scott]

there it is.

going all in for Trae Young is stupid. you know that and post it anyway.

now you're mad.

Thinking that trading 4 of your upcoming 15 FRPs/Swaps that you have over the next 6 ears is "all-in" is stupid. But you're not actually a good faith poster, so it's to be expected.

And no, I'm not mad either.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Just curious, I agree not going all in for Trae but do you just not want him at all? What would you give for Young at this point, and if you aren't after him, what's the pg on the horizon we could realistically get that would take us to the next echelon?

I don't like the fit with Vassell at all. It worsens an already league bottom defense. He is an all star so obviously there is a threshold.

Realistically, we have them over a barrel. They are mediocre team slipping out of the treadmill with little room to improve because we have their draft picks, their team is broken, and their stars are chirping about playing for us. They are the 10th worst record atm.

Then there is the rest of the market who might want juicy unprotected lottery picks.

[DAF86]

nah thats just what i call TD 21 because he's usually softer than wet toilet paper and doesnt deserve that username

I figured it had nothing to do with the real RJ24. As one of the premiere Chet over Wemby guys I was looking to see if he had something to say about last night's game, tbh.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Thinking that trading 4 of your upcoming 15 FRPs/Swaps that you have over the next 6 ears is "all-in" is stupid. But you're not actually a good faith poster, so it's to be expected.

And no, I'm not mad either.

I could go to realgm and start posting the picks and which ones will translate and which won't. Then point out the obvious bias. they do have an excellent breakdown.

of course you know this and for some reason want the world to burn.

[mo7888]

That Woj clip means the FO is gonna have to do real work this offseason... That's a good thing...

[TD 21]

nah thats just what i call TD 21 because he's usually softer than wet toilet paper and doesnt deserve that username

Says the guy who quotes me constantly.

[scott]

I could go to realgm and start posting the picks and which ones will translate and which won't. Then point out the obvious bias. they do have an excellent breakdown.

of course you know this and for some reason want the world to burn.

Of the 15 future FRPs and Swaps, a total of one is currently less likely to convey than it is to convey. You should go to realgm and perform this exercise, clearly you need it.

[scott]

Awesome to see the Spurs getting this kind of media attention after a win to bring them up to 12-48 though. Just wait and see what kind of attention we draw once we're good again.

[Pauleta14]

I figured it had nothing to do with the real RJ24. As one of the premiere Chet over Wemby guys I was looking to see if he had something to say about last night's game, tbh.

If you want there's another Chet lover who still seems to have a hard time admitting the facts, chandler Parsons on FanDuel with Michelle Beadle


https://youtu.be/JM8QcDP8Dbc?si=JlZQ1Yj5Gnv37pdt

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Of the 15 future FRPs and Swaps, a total of one is currently less likely to convey than it is to convey. You should go to realgm and perform this exercise, clearly you need it.

that is fair. the top 14 protected by definition out of the lottery picks might convey.

it's just all the lottery picks. such a distinction. :rolleyes

[scott]

that is fair. the top 14 by definition out of the lottery picks might convey.

it's just all the lottery picks. such a distinction. :rolleyes

Fascinating that you can forecast which future picks will be lottery picks. You should do something with that skill. Maybe couple it with your amazing goalpost moving skills.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Fascinating that you can forecast which future picks will be lottery picks. You should do something with that skill. Maybe couple it with your amazing goalpost moving skills.

what is the lottery threshold and how does that relate to a top 15 protected pick? the question is rhetorical. you are being obtuse again. doing shit like including the Spurs native picks in your denominator while calling me bad faith.

getting a sense what your butthurt about.

[RC_Drunkford]

Naz Reid would be perfect for this team. There were reports that the Spurs were trying to sign him in the offseason, but then decided not to, for whatever reason. He's one of the best 6th men in the league and is basically a starting caliber player who can play C and PF. He's mobile, a good 3-point shooter, has good handles and is only 24. With the T'Wolves in salary cap hell, the Spurs should try their best to bring him in and extend his contract. Ideal scenario is you frontload that contract like they did with Keldon and Vassell.
Trae Young, Naz Reid and Risacher would be a huge offseason. And you'd still have a whole lot of 2nds to trade for another 3-and-D wing.

[scott]

If you want there's another Chet lover who still seems to have a hard time admitting the facts, chandler Parsons on FanDuel with Michelle Beadle


https://youtu.be/JM8QcDP8Dbc?si=JlZQ1Yj5Gnv37pdt

One of the greatest rookie performances of all time won't win unanimous ROTY because gus like this just invented new criteria for the award out of their ass :lol

[scott]

what is the lottery threshold and how does that relate to a top 15 protected pick? the question is rhetorical. you are being obtuse again. doing shit like including the Spurs native picks in your denominator while calling me bad faith.

getting a sense what your butthurt about.

There is only one pick that is top 14 projected, the pick that I already said is not likely to convey. The Spurs native picks goes in the denominator because those are actually picks, that the Spurs can actually use or trade. They are actually part of the war chest of assets. Trying to exclude those from your calculus is the ultimate in bad faith.

I didn't think you could take things to a next level of stupidity, but here we are. Congrats!

[scott]

Let me save you the trouble of your typical reply:

I'm mad.

You are bored.

Now you can run and hide like you always do when your stupid bullshit gets called out.

[rjv]

chandler parsons throwing shade at devin for his contract is full of irony.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

There is only one pick that is top 14 projected, the pick that I already said is not likely to convey. The Spurs native picks goes in the denominator because those are actually picks, that the Spurs can actually use or trade. They are actually part of the war chest of assets. Trying to exclude those from your calculus is the ultimate in bad faith.

I didn't think you could take things to a next level of stupidity, but here we are. Congrats!

There are swaps too. When you include our picks and the swaps you are obviously trying to inflate the numbers.

Other than that, your basically saying the Bulls pick that is top 10 protected will convey. Wow, we sure have a lot left after trading away the 2 maybe as many as 4 other top 10 picks we acquired when you include the swap in the deal. But yeah that is not 'all in.'

That is what I was getting at when it was more appropriately viewed as the hopes of one who covets.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Let me save you the trouble of your typical reply:

I'm mad.

You are bored.

Now you can run and hide like you always do when your stupid bullshit gets called out.

Remember when I was describing your behavior as petulant before?

[scott]

There are swaps too. When you include our picks and the swaps you are obviously trying to inflate the numbers.

Other than that, your basically saying the Bulls pick that is top 10 protected will convey. Wow, we sure have a lot left after trading away the 2 maybe as many as 4 other top 10 picks we acquired when you include the swap in the deal. But yeah that is not 'all in.'

That is what I was getting at when it was more appropriately viewed as the hopes of one who covets.

This doesn't have to explained to you, because I know you know better, but you like to play these games of opaqueness for whatever weird fetish reasons that are known only to you. But for the abundance of clarity:

"All-in" has a clue, right in the name: ALL.

The Spurs have 15 FRPs and Swaps (which I specified from the get-go), only one of which (CHA) is more than likely to not convey at this point. This isn't word games, it's a fact.

The Bulls pick protection drops from 1-10 to 1-8 in 2026 and 2027 and as of right now is more likely than not to convey. It might not, I'm not making any predictions. Of the trade proposal you responded to, there would only be one top-ten pick at the time of the trade: TORs (unless it does not convey and you are trading it away, in which case, there are no top-ten picks included). You may THINK they are top-ten picks. They may even be LIKELY to be top-ten picks, but they are not top-picks until the lotto balls are drawn and they are placed there.

I don't even have an opinion on the trade proposal that was shared, I just take exception to your clearly incorrect take that it would represent the Spurs going "all-in". When using the term "all-in", it does not mean "most of some" - it means ALL... as in the team has put ALL it has into those moves to reach their goal (a championship, for most teams). You're by definition not going "all-in" by trading away a fraction of your available assets.

Now, this conversation truly has bored me.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

This doesn't have to explained to you, because I know you know better, but you like to play these games of opaqueness for whatever weird fetish reasons that are known only to you. But for the abundance of clarity:

"All-in" has a clue, right in the name: ALL.

The Spurs have 15 FRPs and Swaps (which I specified from the get-go), only one of which (CHA) is more than likely to not convey at this point. This isn't word games, it's a fact.

The Bulls pick protection drops from 1-10 to 1-8 in 2026 and 2027 and as of right now is more likely than not to convey. It might not, I'm not making any predictions. Of the trade proposal you responded to, there would only be one top-ten pick at the time of the trade: TORs (unless it does not convey and you are trading it away, in which case, there are no top-ten picks included). You may THINK they are top-ten picks. They may even be LIKELY to be top-ten picks, but they are not top-picks until the lotto balls are drawn and they are placed there.

I don't even have an opinion on the trade proposal that was shared, I just take exception to your clearly incorrect take that it would represent the Spurs going "all-in". When using the term "all-in", it does not mean "most of some" - it means ALL... as in the team has put ALL it has into those moves to reach their goal (a championship, for most teams). You're by definition not going "all-in" by trading away a fraction of your available assets.

Now, this conversation truly has bored me.

So you fixated on a meaningless point of fact. Bravo.

It's doubly funny as I had conceded the point already earlier. You shouldve been bored then.

[tonight...you]

One of the greatest rookie performances of all time won't win unanimous ROTY because gus like this just invented new criteria for the award out of their ass :lol
Looking at how Wemby responds to a challenge and especially how he goes at Chet, if Chet were to win the ROTY?
Angry Wemby could be a total monster next year. Like Godzilla on cardboard buildings.

[scott]

Remember when I was describing your behavior as petulant before?


Then you are not intuitive to go along with ignorant.

This is boring. Ciao.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

[/COLOR]

So you are taking umbrage over what I said to another account? Okay. Am I supposed to feel chagrined now?

[scott]

So you are taking umbrage over what I said to another account? Okay. Am I supposed to feel chagrined now?

I don't care how you feel. You're a bad faith, petulant shitposter who turns around and accuses everyone else of being the same. Contrary to your inflated sense of self-worth, this doesn't make me (or anyone else) mad, you just are what you are.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I don't care how you feel. You're a bad faith, petulant shitposter who turns around and accuses everyone else of being the same. Contrary to your inflated sense of self-worth, this doesn't make me (or anyone else) mad, you just are what you are.

yeah you definitely seem zen. still not chagrined btw.

[spurraider21]

umbrage


chagrined

:lmao the return of platform of bluster

[FuzzyLumpkins]

:lmao the return of platform of bluster

:lol

[TimmyBuckets]

Every media member knows Spurs need to make a splash this offseason. Spurs need to make a move on Trae. Perfect target.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Every media member knows Spurs need to make a splash this offseason. Spurs need to make a move on Trae. Perfect target.

Figure out how to make KJ, Collins, and their picks back work.

[TimmyBuckets]

Figure out how to make KJ, Collins, and their picks back work.


Yea I'm sure that's the problem. All these superstars besides Wemby on our team, we don't know who to get rid of :lol

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Yea I'm sure that's the problem. All these superstars besides Wemby on our team, we don't know who to get rid of :lol

Throw in Branham and the numbers work

[TimmyBuckets]

Throw in Branham and the numbers work

KJ, Brahman/Devonte, and picks

[CorrectCrusader]

Interesting hypothetical. The dream - my dream, at least - is that Trae and Wemby hook him up with so many easy shots and ESPN highlights, he's not too worried about being that 1b/2 option any longer (or at least, as much).

Imagine a guy of Vassell's actually great skill level just shooting open corner three's/jumpers all night instead of having to work his ass off for almost every shot, you know? That would be a thing of beauty. I think he's smart enough to realize he'll play longer and thus make up any lost money in that scenario (by extending his career and his health).

We'll see, though. He got paid before Wemby, so it's unknown how he will take the pressure if, or (I hope, personally) when someone else slides in to take his place. As an aside, this is another reason why I don't think building through the draft is the right call, here. We need a #2 banana and if that's Risacher, Sarr, et all then Devin's not going to be happy. We might have a chance at good chemistry if we get an All-Star he's forced to respect on the court.

Vassell is the perfect #3 too, he can make his own shot and hit tough jumpers.

[ambchang]

So you are admitting you just made up the LA part?

So you are admitting you didn’t see the same guys part meaning general national media?

:lol asking for one year old articles
:lol not understanding the idea of national media wanting the most marketable player on big markets so they make all kinds of money
:lol thinking Windhorst wants to come to San Antonio on road trips for the next 15 years
:lol having a clear agenda to immediately upgrade the team now with no regards for the future and pretending then national media does not have an agenda to push wemby to a big market
:lol semantics
:lol pretend to not understand LA is by far the biggest media market in the us

[Dejounte]

Trading for Trae is common sense if not for the simple fact of how Trae will further increase the market value of the franchise just as Wemby did. It won’t be as much as Wemby did, but it will be a lot. We got a new arena because of Wemby… we’re probably gonna get more things if Trae gets go SA.

[RC_Drunkford]

Manu said in an interview that the Spurs have a 5-year plan. I always thought that was too long and it should be more like a 3-year plan. Wemby has MVP like per 36 numbers in his last 28 games. He needs help ASAP. Spurs need to get to the playoffs next year.

[Dejounte]

Biggest misconception is the Spurs losing all their future if they go for Trae. The point about the future is so that one of those future picks pan out. If one of those picks turn into Trae Young in three years, then what’s the difference between getting Trae Young now vs in three years? Is it because the player the Spurs’ pick will be homegrown and stubborn fans are stuck to the archaic idea that all Spurs players must be homegrown or else they suck? Trae is fucking 25. There will still be a future if he’s here because he’s young.

[Sugus]

The problem with Young is a potential Young/Vassell backcourt. It'd be like when the Warriors trotted out Curry and Ellis defensively but our guys aren't as good offensively.

I'm perfectly content with rolling out the Young/Vassell backcourt for a season, then improve on it by trading Vassell + assets the next one (or even in the same off-season that we acquire Young, so they never cross paths at all).

Young is much closer to fulfilling his role for a championship team than Vassell is or might ever be. I'm not nearly as worried about his defensive shortcomings if we're pairing him with the potentially GOAT defensive player... And when you factor in the lobbing threat every single possession, it's too good not to consider.

Still a pipedream, of course. But Spurs have the assets to make it happen if they wanted to.

[Sugus]

IMO the good news is that something has to give. There are going to be dozens of free agents over the next 2-3 years, and it doesn't take much analysis to see that anyone who wants to be set up to win could go to the team with a 20 year old who's already being talked about as the next top 10 player in NBA history. You don't even have to be a ring chaser to want to play alongside that kind of prodigious talent. The Spurs have picks and tons of cap room to work with, so I have to think along the way we'll see a premiere point/SG put San Antonio at the top of their list and the deal will get done, even if we have to take their expiring and resign them.

Exactly - the gravity and presence that Wemby has is a major draw to any and all players. Who wouldn't want to be on the good side of the 7'3 giant blocking everyone's shit? I think we're already seeing its effects, a lot of players have talked enthusiastically about Wemby and the Spurs this season, with Trae at the top of it - he gave an interview with glowing praise for Wemby.

It's a major factor of why I consider the Spurs to have a great future. Throw this season's team out the window - you still have plenty of capspace, plenty of future picks including all of our own, and the #1 most exciting prospect in basketball to draw other players in. There's no way not to capitalize on that.

[Sugus]

While I hope you are right, you could have said the same thing at multiple different junctures in Spurs history but it never really panned out. Wemby may just be that different though.

Whoever it may hurt - Tim Duncan was never, ever, as exciting to watch play, or play with, as rookie Wemby is right now.

Just entire different stratospheres of "being a draw". Wemby's record-breaking media consumption numbers are clear proof, he's a worldstar in a star's league in his first season already.

Times are changing.

[Dejounte]

Exactly - the gravity and presence that Wemby has is a major draw to any and all players. Who wouldn't want to be on the good side of the 7'3 giant blocking everyone's shit? I think we're already seeing its effects, a lot of players have talked enthusiastically about Wemby and the Spurs this season, with Trae at the top of it - he gave an interview with glowing praise for Wemby.

It's a major factor of why I consider the Spurs to have a great future. Throw this season's team out the window - you still have plenty of capspace, plenty of future picks including all of our own, and the #1 most exciting prospect in basketball to draw other players in. There's no way not to capitalize on that.

“still have plenty of capspace” - track record has shown that nothing special happens from having cap space

”plenty of future picks” - again, if we “throw out this season’s team”, that would be basically five years of the Spurs not drafting well. Why would having plenty of future picks give anyone faith that those future players will have a better outcome. And don’t give me that “because we have Wemby now, the Spurs will draft better” bullshit. That’s the most nonsense thing I’ve heard.

[weebo]

I'm all for a rebuild but they need to speed up the timeline--like they need to be competing for championships within the next 3 years. Do whatever you have to do to get Wemby better teammates. At 7'3"+ tall, and with a history of guys that big suffering injuries, the Spurs need to be in win-now mode from here on out.

[JPB]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOBEZu8CTXs

[kace]

Manu said in an interview that the Spurs have a 5-year plan. I always thought that was too long and it should be more like a 3-year plan. Wemby has MVP like per 36 numbers in his last 28 games. He needs help ASAP. Spurs need to get to the playoffs next year.

i remember him saying three years, at least, to compete for a title in his interview with TP.

https://youtu.be/NbOrb6DloLk?t=406

[kace]

honestly, it is clear that the spurs should search to be as good as possible as soon as next year.

Victor will of course improve a lot, and he will erase a lot of mistakes and bad choices, but he is already a defensive force and a very good offensive player. He could play right now on a contender, so we should asap try to build one here.

Vassel is also already a very competent scorer. We will have one or two lottery picks in the next draft.

The time to search stars and good pieces to build a team able to go to the PO and compete there in a couple of years begins next summer.

I'm not saying that we have to go far in the PO as soon as next year or otherwise the season will be a failure, of course, but the time for seeing what we've got, as Pop said, ends at the end of this season i hope. Choices will have to be made.

[RC_Drunkford]

“still have plenty of capspace” - track record has shown that nothing special happens from having cap space

”plenty of future picks” - again, if we “throw out this season’s team”, that would be basically five years of the Spurs not drafting well. Why would having plenty of future picks give anyone faith that those future players will have a better outcome. And don’t give me that “because we have Wemby now, the Spurs will draft better” bullshit. That’s the most nonsense thing I’ve heard.

not only that, but even if they draft the right guy in '25, he'd be a contributor for a playoff team in what? 3 years? That's 2028. With the 26 swap and the 27 picks incoming the Spurs would be a contender by 2030 when Wemby is 26 on a max contract. The guy is a top 15 player right now and will probably be top 10 by next season. If you waste another 5-6 years he'd be gone by then.

[MultiTroll]

Who are the Frenchie homies of Wama and what are they saying?

Outside of Porker of course.

[RC_Drunkford]

to be a contender in the NBA you need a top 10 offense and top 10 defense. The Spurs already have a top 5 defense with Wemby on the floor, so they actually have something to work with. Trae Young is a walking top 10 NBA offense. If you replace Tre Jones with Trae Young and can get a better wing than Champagnie (which ain't that hard to do and could probably even be someone like Risacher who we can bring in with our own pick) the defense would most likely still be top 5 or top 10 at least.

Which means the only thing you'd have to fix now is the defense of our bench. The bench is terrible defensively cause we're playing Zach Collins, Osman, Keldon and Branham. If you bring in a Naz Reid you don't need Collins no more. Barlow and Bassey might even be able to replace some of those guys. You could also move Tre Jones and Champagnie to the bench. A Reed Sheppard would be great in this scenario if we could somehow keep the Raptors pick in these trades. We have plenty of 2nd rounders to trade for role players to shore up the bench.

The goal should be to make the postseason next year and then be a legit contender by 2026/27

[The Truth #6]

I'm all for a rebuild but they need to speed up the timeline--like they need to be competing for championships within the next 3 years. Do whatever you have to do to get Wemby better teammates. At 7'3"+ tall, and with a history of guys that big suffering injuries, the Spurs need to be in win-now mode from here on out.

The injury risk is legitimate for a player that height. Combined with Wemby is really good already, that is something that needs to be figured in the calculus. Wemby being impatient is less of a factor for me, though he probably understands the risks at his height more than most people.

[Sugus]

“still have plenty of capspace” - track record has shown that nothing special happens from having cap space

”plenty of future picks” - again, if we “throw out this season’s team”, that would be basically five years of the Spurs not drafting well. Why would having plenty of future picks give anyone faith that those future players will have a better outcome. And don’t give me that “because we have Wemby now, the Spurs will draft better” bullshit. That’s the most nonsense thing I’ve heard.

Track record for the Spurs, or the entire league? In any case, I don't see how having a clean cap sheet and room is a bad thing and unhelpful. Especially seeing half the forum B&M over Collins' contract like he's sinking us or smth.

It's a figure of speech.... Means "even if this season's team doesn't end up worthwhile of a championship roster", which isn't out of the question at this point. Would it be good or preferrable, of course not, but alas the team's performance this season...

Secondly, who said use all those picks to draft? Having plenty picks including our own opens trade possibilities to improve the team on all levels. Are you gonna give me shit on that too like it's some insane proposition? :lol

[Cry Havoc]

“still have plenty of capspace” - track record has shown that nothing special happens from having cap space

”plenty of future picks” - again, if we “throw out this season’s team”, that would be basically five years of the Spurs not drafting well. Why would having plenty of future picks give anyone faith that those future players will have a better outcome. And don’t give me that “because we have Wemby now, the Spurs will draft better” bullshit. That’s the most nonsense thing I’ve heard.

So picks are worthless and cap space is worthless?

Huh. Might wanna let OKC know that.

[baseline bum]

to be a contender in the NBA you need a top 10 offense and top 10 defense. The Spurs already have a top 5 defense with Wemby on the floor, so they actually have something to work with. Trae Young is a walking top 10 NBA offense. If you replace Tre Jones with Trae Young and can get a better wing than Champagnie (which ain't that hard to do and could probably even be someone like Risacher who we can bring in with our own pick) the defense would most likely still be top 5 or top 10 at least.

Which means the only thing you'd have to fix now is the defense of our bench. The bench is terrible defensively cause we're playing Zach Collins, Osman, Keldon and Branham. If you bring in a Naz Reid you don't need Collins no more. Barlow and Bassey might even be able to replace some of those guys. You could also move Tre Jones and Champagnie to the bench. A Reed Sheppard would be great in this scenario if we could somehow keep the Raptors pick in these trades. We have plenty of 2nd rounders to trade for role players to shore up the bench.

The goal should be to make the postseason next year and then be a legit contender by 2026/27

Yeah with the leaps Victor is making I'm starting to really want Trae. This is what I expected Year 2 or maybe even Year 3 Wemby to look like. Back when Victor was getting bullied off his spot and shooting really inconsistently trying to be 7'4" Durant I thought better to go slow and build in the draft, but that's when I was expecting his entire rookie year to look like that. Don't see how the Spurs could get Reid though. He's on a cheap contract that he can't opt out of until 25-26 so no reason for Minnesota to move him. Really hope the Spurs can luck into Risacher or Sarr since Williams and Buzelis have a lot of question marks and no fucking thanks on Holland with a top 5 pick.

[RC_Drunkford]

Yeah with the leaps Victor is making I'm starting to really want Trae. This is what I expected Year 2 or maybe even Year 3 Wemby to look like. Back when Victor was getting bullied off his spot and shooting really inconsistently trying to be 7'4" Durant I thought better to go slow and build in the draft, but that's when I was expecting his entire rookie year to look like that. Don't see how the Spurs could get Reid though. He's on a cheap contract that he can't opt out of until 25-26 so no reason for Minnesota to move him. Really hope the Spurs can luck into Risacher or Sarr since Williams and Buzelis have a lot of question marks and no fucking thanks on Holland with a top 5 pick.

Minnesota has huge luxury tax issues next season with Ant's extension kicking in. They are basically forced to either move Reid or McDaniels.

[JPB]

What's also making me come to terms with the idea of trading for Trae is... opportuntiy. I mean it's OK to want to keep your assets for what you believe would be a better, more fitting player, but you don't decide if and when these guys are avaialble and if you can actually get them... There might be an opportunity to get that second star in Trae who, for all his flaws, might do it next to Wemby... Are you sure you're gonna get a better opportunity anytime soon? Do you want to take the risk to pass on Trae, then find yourself without any bettter opportunity down the road? Spurs need a star PG who fits Wemby's timeline, which Trae does... there's risks, but there always are risks, nothing is ever sure... And if there's one player Trae, or any player, wouldn't play the alpha game with, that would be Wemby... they both could elevate each other's game without ego issues. Trae would know this is Wemby's team, hell this is Wemby's league.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I'm perfectly content with rolling out the Young/Vassell backcourt for a season, then improve on it by trading Vassell + assets the next one (or even in the same off-season that we acquire Young, so they never cross paths at all).

Young is much closer to fulfilling his role for a championship team than Vassell is or might ever be. I'm not nearly as worried about his defensive shortcomings if we're pairing him with the potentially GOAT defensive player... And when you factor in the lobbing threat every single possession, it's too good not to consider.

Still a pipedream, of course. But Spurs have the assets to make it happen if they wanted to.

That is reasonable.

I see it as more than a pipedream. There were repeated reports of them working on the trade. Moreso, it makes sense. They cannot tank without their picks. If they trade with another team they are still poorer for it talentwise and without their picks.

Assuming we can find an allstar PG or SF somewhere else if we can keep any of their picks it is in our interest they trade their stars to other teams. We have them by the balls with both of their first round picks in our pocket.

But yeah there is a point where it makes sense. If they want to take on Collins and KJ on top of giving us Young I would trade them back their picks.

[DAF86]

Biggest misconception is the Spurs losing all their future if they go for Trae. The point about the future is so that one of those future picks pan out. If one of those picks turn into Trae Young in three years, then what’s the difference between getting Trae Young now vs in three years? Is it because the player the Spurs’ pick will be homegrown and stubborn fans are stuck to the archaic idea that all Spurs players must be homegrown or else they suck? Trae is fucking 25. There will still be a future if he’s here because he’s young.

The idea would be to get someone better than Trae. Young might be the most flawed all-star in the game. I'm not a fan of settling for that, tbh.

[MultiTroll]

The idea would be to get someone better than Trae. Young might be the most flawed all-star in the game. I'm not a fan of settling for that, tbh.
Halliburton >>>>>>>>> Trae Young.