Stephon Castle - 2024 NBA Draft Prospect

[DAF86]

Because Castle projects at worst as a solid to very good defender? And one who can do multiple things on the court to help a team? It's not astonishing. There are many players in the league who fit that mold very directly. If there's anyone in this lottery who I project to not fall out of the league in their first or second contracts, it's Stephon Castle. His skill set is most likely to translate, translate well, and be in demand.

Really? Which ones?

[Mr. Body]

If Castle's not available, would you trade the 8th pick for Dyson Daniels? He's already established as a good NBA defender, a pretty good passer, and shoots over 31% from 3.

I haven't really watched Daniels play much, so I can't fairly say. He may be turning a corner, but I wouldn't. Ultimately I think Ignite players are way behind developmentally and the only one who has sort of turned out so far is Kuminga. I don't know who I'd take with 8 though. Go another direction than defensive stopper.

[Mr. Body]

Really? Which ones?

Marcus Smart, Bruce Brown, Draymond Green, Brandon Clarke, Matisse Thybulle, Kyle Anderson, etc.?

[lefty20]

1796917239808922012

[DAF86]

Marcus Smart, Bruce Brown, Draymond Green, Brandon Clarke, Matisse Thybulle, Kyle Anderson, etc.?

Smart is a career 39% from 3. The premise was Castle's floor without him developing his shot.

Clarke, Draymond and Anderson aren't guards.

Thybulle kind of sucks, tbh, and I guess I can give you Bruce Brown. Still, his best seasons came when he shot above league average from 3.

The truth is that there aren't many rotations guards that can't shoot out there, tbh.

[baseline bum]

Smart is a career 39% from 3. The premise was Castle's floor without him developing his shot.

Clarke, Draymond and Anderson aren't guards.

Thybulle kind of sucks, tbh, and I guess I can give you Bruce Brown. Still, his best seasons came when he shot above league average from 3.

The truth is that there aren't many rotations guards that can't shoot out there, tbh.

Smart's a career 32% from the three. His overall shooting percentage is 39%.

https://i.ibb.co/KFHdQWG/smart.png

[heyheymymy]

watching Castle defensively he is like a fly on shit to his assignment

[DAF86]

Smart's a career 32% from the three. His overall shooting percentage is 39%.

https://i.ibb.co/KFHdQWG/smart.png

lol I fucked up.

Ok, Smart goes into the beg then. The point still remains, not too many of those guys in the league.

[TD 21]

:lmao At the notion of the Casle being "high floor" and "likely to have a 10-15 year career", when he's the antithesis as one of the highest bust rate archetypes extant.


Exum, Ntilikina, Culver, Daniels (too soon), Black (too soon) and to a lesser extent (more true PG's) Payton, Mudiay, Dunn, Hayes and (more wings) Winslow, (Stanley) Johnson, (Josh) Jackson.

The more important shooting becomes, the less this board wants to see it prioritized or thinks it's more fixable than it usually is.

[exstatic]

I want Topic over Castle. Him being out a year doesn’t hurt our timeline at all. I feel like the Spurs would take Sheppard over all of them though from an analytics standpoint

He’s not going to be out a year. Even with surgery, the MCL timeline is 3-6 months. If he gets the surgery after the draft,his worst case is New Years.

[Mr. Body]

:lmao At the notion of the Casle being "high floor" and "likely to have a 10-15 year career", when he's the antithesis as one of the highest bust rate archetypes extant.



The more important shooting becomes, the less this board wants to see it prioritized or thinks it's more fixable than it usually is.

See, this is why it's so peculiar how some get so obsessed with only shooting stats. I get it -- sort of -- in ignoring everything that a player is doing and only focusing on one thing. Pretty much all of those players played for shit leagues like the NBL -- and, yes, the NBL is dogshit, really, for NBA prospects -- and ignoring that Stephon Castle wasn't just running around on some 9-22 team like Markelle Fultz where you hope things translate somehow.

He was the key perimeter defender on one of the most suffocating NCAA teams and defenses we've seen in years.

Now, I get that you hate college basketball or whatever, but where do almost all of the good NBA players come from? Castle isn't just some athlete like Josh Jackson or Mundiay who... had to look this up... played for the Guangdong Southern Tigers the year before he was drafted, or Nkitilina, who played for Strasbourg Illkirch-Graffenstaden Basket before he was drafted, whoever the fuck they are.

Castle can definitely bust. Any player can bust. I didn't even say there's no way he can't bust. I said that if there's a player I think will most likely stick in this league out of all the lottery picks, it's Castle. And it's because he's an exceptional defender and he played superbly at the highest level of his league. If you want any real comparison, it's Michael Kidd-Gilchrist, who as has been mentioned, had a truly awful form to his jumpshot and copious injuries in his NBA career. He was more of a SF than a PG/SG anyway.

[Mr. Body]

As for shooting, this is why I've consistently wanted Dillingham with the other pick, bUt HE's tOo SmAlL.

Like always, you've got to pick players in this draft, not guys you've created in Minecraft.

[TD 21]

See, this is why it's so peculiar how some get so obsessed with only shooting stats. I get it -- sort of -- in ignoring everything that a player is doing and only focusing on one thing. Pretty much all of those players played for shit leagues like the NBL -- and, yes, the NBL is dogshit, really, for NBA prospects -- and ignoring that Stephon Castle wasn't just running around on some 9-22 team like Markelle Fultz where you hope things translate somehow.

He was the key perimeter defender on one of the most suffocating NCAA teams and defenses we've seen in years.

Now, I get that you hate college basketball or whatever, but where do almost all of the good NBA players come from? Castle isn't just some athlete like Josh Jackson or Mundiay who... had to look this up... played for the Guangdong Southern Tigers the year before he was drafted, or Nkitilina, who played for Strasbourg Illkirch-Graffenstaden Basket before he was drafted, whoever the fuck they are.

Castle can definitely bust. Any player can bust. I didn't even say there's no way he can't bust. I said that if there's a player I think will most likely stick in this league out of all the lottery picks, it's Castle. And it's because he's an exceptional defender and he played superbly at the highest level of his league. If you want any real comparison, it's Michael Kidd-Gilchrist, who as has been mentioned, had a truly awful form to his jumpshot and copious injuries in his NBA career. He was more of a SF than a PG/SG anyway.

Yeah, because that's the league today. The Tony Allen's of the world (and he's unlikely to reach that level or at least the perception defensively) have been phased out.

Who cares? He had an elite defensive anchor behind him and this league is about how strong your weakest link is defensively anyway. If he's as good as some think he'll be on that end, the lead ball handlers he's defending will play "target" ball to get him switched off. He can still have impact, but not enough of one to justify a 4th pick.

I "hate college basketball" based on what? Not agreeing with a guy who's so out of touch with today's game that he thinks Collins is a PF? Now more than ever, good prospects/players come from all over, you xenophobe.

No, Castle is more likely to bust than most and I've told you multiple times the alternatives I'd be open to with this pick.

[Biggems]

In this draft? To get a potential lock-down defender? Yeah x1000.

Some reason people getting obsessed with one aspect of things without seeing the overall value. If he never shoots above .300 from deep and is an exceptional perimeter defender you take this player.

I am defense first. I love me some lockdown defense. This is why this team has been so difficult for me to watch the last several years. I understand we are bad, but the absolute lack of defense is disgusting.

Now, we have Wemby. Sochan is not too bad either. Vassell is a solid defender. If we can get two guys who sell out on that end, in Castle and Holland, I would feel more comfortable that we could put out a 5 person lineup to close out opponents defensively.

[Knoxxx]

1796917239808922012

That’s basically what Sochan was doing to SGA and Wemby to Joker. Make them just throw the ball to someone else because they can’t get anything going vs the 1 v 1 defense and they know it.

[Chinook]

You can't hand-wave the uphill climb buttershot players have. It's extremely hard to shut players down in the modern NBA, and if you do, it's a much of a team process than that of an individual player's effort. I don't think there's a justification for Castle at 4 if you don't believe he can be a decent shooter in the NBA. It would be one thing he had some potential to be a real on-ball dynamo ala Collier where you can say, "Well he might have to have the ball a lot, but he's going to be a huge wrecking ball against opposing defenses which can get the others good looks". Even if you added Collier's driving threat to Castle, the shooting would still be a problem. But without it, you run into what's actually a pretty common archetype of passing defenders with size and handles but who can't space the floor. There aren't a ton of those guys who are very successful in the modern game. Bod provided a list of PFs with some wings who haven't really had careers you'd want out of a top-five pick -- even in this draft. You have to think Castle is slated to be better than them, because most of those guys are available this summer for cheap.

All that said, I'm not giving an opinion on Castle's shot. I don't know how bad it is or what the Spurs think about improving it. I do worry because the Spurs have had a horrible track record of improving shots since Kawhi and Green a dozen years ago. Bad shooters have stayed back and guys who came to the team as good shooters have regressed. I don't blame them for letting Chip walk, as the results weren't there. But moving on from him didn't seem to improve anything either. I'm a believer in the concept of "trust your staff or replace them", so if the staff says they can fix the shot, the Spurs should go with that. But it's a huge risk, for Sarr, Topic Castle, Buzelis, Holland, Collier, Edey, Dunn or whomever else. The Spurs can afford to let the shooting come along as their guys improve. They can't afford to draft guys who can't shoot and try to outsource that task to free agents. That's how you get guys like Forbes and McDermott getting big minutes.

[TrainOfThought5]

He’s not going to be out a year. Even with surgery, the MCL timeline is 3-6 months. If he gets the surgery after the draft,his worst case is New Years.

perfect for tanking, to be honest

[rascal]

Neither of those things are even close to being locks, tbh. Vassell came to the league as an elite defensive prospect, he's average now, at best. Castle's handles and playmaking are far from being a lock in the next level also. As it is, he was barely a secondary playmaker in college, why would he be a lock to be a secondary playmaker in the NBA?

If you draft Castle, it is because of the believe of him developing his game. He's not even close to a sure thing or a high floor guy, like a Reed Sheppard could be, tbh.

You aren't paying attention if you're comparing Castle with Vassell in defensive potential.

[Vienna]

I do agree that there is something special about Castle‘s defense. It reminds about Kawhi. Other than many „elite defensive prospects“ it looks as if this ability will almost certain translate to the NBA. It‘s based on foot work, strenght, anticipation, you will want someone like him slow Luka and SGA. so yes, even if other skills don‘t develop as you wish, he would still find an important role with this team.

[DAF86]

I do agree that there is something special about Castle‘s defense. It reminds about Kawhi. Other than many „elite defensive prospects“ it looks as if this ability will almost certain translate to the NBA. It‘s based on foot work, strenght, anticipation, you will want someone like him slow Luka and SGA. so yes, even if other skills don‘t develop as you wish, he would still find an important role with this team.

Stop kidding yourselves, if Castle doesn't develop his shot at least to a passable level, he will have no role in the NBA going forward. There are no more Andre Robersons or Tony Allens in the league.

[Atl Spur]

Stop kidding yourselves, if Castle doesn't develop his shot at least to a passable level, he will have no role in the NBA going forward. There are no more Andre Robersons or Tony Allens in the league.

Are you really acting like this kid can’t dribble, play make, defend, post up ? Furthermore his shot isn’t broke beyond repair if he’s the hard worker he’s been reported to be.

[z0sa]

I am defense first. I love me some lockdown defense. This is why this team has been so difficult for me to watch the last several years. I understand we are bad, but the absolute lack of defense is disgusting.

Now, we have Wemby. Sochan is not too bad either. Vassell is a solid defender. If we can get two guys who sell out on that end, in Castle and Holland, I would feel more comfortable that we could put out a 5 person lineup to close out opponents defensively.

I love defense, too, but we won't be closing anyone out if we are down 20 struggling to score.

I also don't want to see Wemby run ragged chasing down everyone else's blown assignment (not blown because they are low IQ, blown because they can't stay in front of anybody).

It's a catch 22 because this draft lotterry you can only have one or the other.

[DPG21920]

You can't hand-wave the uphill climb buttershot players have. It's extremely hard to shut players down in the modern NBA, and if you do, it's a much of a team process than that of an individual player's effort. I don't think there's a justification for Castle at 4 if you don't believe he can be a decent shooter in the NBA. It would be one thing he had some potential to be a real on-ball dynamo ala Collier where you can say, "Well he might have to have the ball a lot, but he's going to be a huge wrecking ball against opposing defenses which can get the others good looks". Even if you added Collier's driving threat to Castle, the shooting would still be a problem. But without it, you run into what's actually a pretty common archetype of passing defenders with size and handles but who can't space the floor. There aren't a ton of those guys who are very successful in the modern game. Bod provided a list of PFs with some wings who haven't really had careers you'd want out of a top-five pick -- even in this draft. You have to think Castle is slated to be better than them, because most of those guys are available this summer for cheap.

All that said, I'm not giving an opinion on Castle's shot. I don't know how bad it is or what the Spurs think about improving it. I do worry because the Spurs have had a horrible track record of improving shots since Kawhi and Green a dozen years ago. Bad shooters have stayed back and guys who came to the team as good shooters have regressed. I don't blame them for letting Chip walk, as the results weren't there. But moving on from him didn't seem to improve anything either. I'm a believer in the concept of "trust your staff or replace them", so if the staff says they can fix the shot, the Spurs should go with that. But it's a huge risk, for Sarr, Topic Castle, Buzelis, Holland, Collier, Edey, Dunn or whomever else. The Spurs can afford to let the shooting come along as their guys improve. They can't afford to draft guys who can't shoot and try to outsource that task to free agents. That's how you get guys like Forbes and McDermott getting big minutes.

This - there’s some real risk to the players in this draft. Im nervous as hell about it lol

[exstatic]

This - there’s some real risk to the players in this draft. Im nervous as hell about it lol
It’s the same risk for everyone. Nothing to be nervous about. There isn’t one complete, well rounded prospect in this draft. It’s not like you’re going to miss on a sure thing. There aren’t any. The last draft this uncertain was 2013, Anthony Bennet was selected #1, and the best two players were drafted as raw projects, a skinny kid from Greece at #15, and a tall skinny kid from France at #27.

[thOOdee]

It’s the same risk for everyone. Nothing to be nervous about. There isn’t one complete, well rounded prospect in this draft. It’s not like you’re going to miss on a sure thing. There aren’t any. The last draft this uncertain was 2013, Anthony Bennet was selected #1, and the best two players were drafted as raw projects, a skinny kid from Greece at #15, and a tall skinny kid from France at #27.

After looking at this draft class noticed cj mccollum was picked pretty late. Anybody see any comparison’s with castle? I don’t remember mccollum’s reputation with shooting in college,

[lefty20]

After looking at this draft class noticed cj mccollum was picked pretty late. Anybody see any comparison’s with castle? I don’t remember mccollum’s reputation with shooting in college,

Good scorer and he shot 42% beyond the arc in college, but was a mediocre defender.


https://www.draftexpress.com/profile/C.J.-McCollum-5860/#:~:text=Standing%206'3%2C%20McCollum%20is,the%20b all%20in%20his%20hands.

[SpursBills]

After looking at this draft class noticed cj mccollum was picked pretty late. Anybody see any comparison’s with castle? I don’t remember mccollum’s reputation with shooting in college,

I think less castle, more McCain for a cj comp

[jjspur]

I like Castle at #4, but a lot a posters are griping about his 3 point shot. Granted its not all that great, but I think you draft him for the other things he brings to the table like defense. We need that more than shooting (although we need that too). Draft #8, sign or trade for a three point shooter later. This draft is just not filled with players who are great statistically in many categories. I believe that in 5 years, the best players from this draft will be really good role players taken in the mid to late lottery and beyond.

[Kevin]

I like Castle at #4, but a lot a posters are griping about his 3 point shot. Granted its not all that great, but I think you draft him for the other things he brings to the table like defense. We need that more than shooting (although we need that too). Draft #8, sign or trade for a three point shooter later. This draft is just not filled with players who are great statistically in many categories. I believe that in 5 years, the best players from this draft will be really good role players taken in the mid to late lottery and beyond.

I mostly agree with this but it also feels like one of the defense first types will develop a jumper and become a star. God only knows which one it will be.

[TD 21]

I mostly agree with this but it also feels like one of the defense first types will develop a jumper and become a star. God only knows which one it will be.

Given the Spurs atrocious track record post Scumbag, it's a safe bet to not be the one(s) they select.

[DAF86]

Are you really acting like this kid can’t dribble, play make, defend, post up ? Furthermore his shot isn’t broke beyond repair if he’s the hard worker he’s been reported to be.

He doesn't dribble, playmake, defend nor post up to a level that allows him not to learn how to shoot, tbh.

[exstatic]

After looking at this draft class noticed cj mccollum was picked pretty late. Anybody see any comparison’s with castle? I don’t remember mccollum’s reputation with shooting in college,

McCollum was much more polished, which should be expected since he was nearly 22 when he was drafted. Their games were really nothing alike, nor were they physically similar. McCollum dropped because of his age and attendance at a mid major university.

[jesterbobman]

You can't hand-wave the uphill climb buttershot players have. It's extremely hard to shut players down in the modern NBA, and if you do, it's a much of a team process than that of an individual player's effort. I don't think there's a justification for Castle at 4 if you don't believe he can be a decent shooter in the NBA. It would be one thing he had some potential to be a real on-ball dynamo ala Collier where you can say, "Well he might have to have the ball a lot, but he's going to be a huge wrecking ball against opposing defenses which can get the others good looks". Even if you added Collier's driving threat to Castle, the shooting would still be a problem. But without it, you run into what's actually a pretty common archetype of passing defenders with size and handles but who can't space the floor. There aren't a ton of those guys who are very successful in the modern game. Bod provided a list of PFs with some wings who haven't really had careers you'd want out of a top-five pick -- even in this draft. You have to think Castle is slated to be better than them, because most of those guys are available this summer for cheap.

All that said, I'm not giving an opinion on Castle's shot. I don't know how bad it is or what the Spurs think about improving it. I do worry because the Spurs have had a horrible track record of improving shots since Kawhi and Green a dozen years ago. Bad shooters have stayed back and guys who came to the team as good shooters have regressed. I don't blame them for letting Chip walk, as the results weren't there. But moving on from him didn't seem to improve anything either. I'm a believer in the concept of "trust your staff or replace them", so if the staff says they can fix the shot, the Spurs should go with that. But it's a huge risk, for Sarr, Topic Castle, Buzelis, Holland, Collier, Edey, Dunn or whomever else. The Spurs can afford to let the shooting come along as their guys improve. They can't afford to draft guys who can't shoot and try to outsource that task to free agents. That's how you get guys like Forbes and McDermott getting big minutes.

I think there are multiple paths for Castle to be an effective role player given his profile and existing dribble/ pass ability, as well as defense, though there is a real downside to a non shooting wing. I think the upside if the shot doesn't come is a less effective rebounding Josh Hart with a bit more on ball ability (fine role player, not exactly the type of guy you want at #4). If they take him there, I think it signals they believe in the shot enough, and there are some signals that it's not as broken as other non-shooters.

Good point on shooters in FA.
Basically every team is in need of shooting, and if you don't draft / develop it you get left with shooters who aren't dynamic enough to do other things well so you get misfits who can't defend / rebound/ put pressure on a defense etc, or you can get standstill shooters who are OK when they are just hanging out in the corner, though don't offer as much off ball dynamism as shooters (e.g, I'd be quite happy targeting Isaac Okoro as a 3&D wing in FA as a Champagnie upgrade, but he's a standstill 3 shooter, rather than someone dynamic as a shooter like Doug).
I think with Wemby you want some dynamic off ball shooting, and I think it's hard to acquire that in FA unless that player is a negative defender / non playmaker. I'd be fine with Reed or Rob at 4 for that reason, as I think both of them are good enough as off ball shooters (Reed ahead IMO, but Rob is good too), and have other qualities that suggest that they're more useful than Forbes / Mills and are decent upside bets.

[LeBowen]

I think there are multiple paths for Castle to be an effective role player given his profile and existing dribble/ pass ability, as well as defense, though there is a real downside to a non shooting wing. I think the upside if the shot doesn't come is a less effective rebounding Josh Hart with a bit more on ball ability (fine role player, not exactly the type of guy you want at #4). If they take him there, I think it signals they believe in the shot enough, and there are some signals that it's not as broken as other non-shooters.

Good point on shooters in FA.
Basically every team is in need of shooting, and if you don't draft / develop it you get left with shooters who aren't dynamic enough to do other things well so you get misfits who can't defend / rebound/ put pressure on a defense etc, or you can get standstill shooters who are OK when they are just hanging out in the corner, though don't offer as much off ball dynamism as shooters (e.g, I'd be quite happy targeting Isaac Okoro as a 3&D wing in FA as a Champagnie upgrade, but he's a standstill 3 shooter, rather than someone dynamic as a shooter like Doug).
I think with Wemby you want some dynamic off ball shooting, and I think it's hard to acquire that in FA unless that player is a negative defender / non playmaker. I'd be fine with Reed or Rob at 4 for that reason, as I think both of them are good enough as off ball shooters (Reed ahead IMO, but Rob is good too), and have other qualities that suggest that they're more useful than Forbes / Mills and are decent upside bets.

Good post.
Bold part is the bit I think should be the priority.

Regardless of how the rest of the rotation is built, we ideally want a volume shooter with size at the other forward position.
Someone who's at least a neutral defender, can average 7 to 8 rebounds per game and can shoot lights out.
Doesn't need to do much else. Just rebound, shoot whenever he gets the ball and cut.

I've said many times that we shouldn't deal with Ainge and his ridiculous demands, but Markkanen would be so good next to Wemby.
His role is basically 7ft Klay.
There's also MPJ. He's obviously a tier below Markkanen, but he'd be fairly easy to get if Denver decides to get rid of him due to their salary issues.

Ideal scenario would be Castle developing his skillset like DJ did, Devin taking the next step as a playmaker and then two lights out volume shooters that never stop moving.

While if we get Dillingham a lot of resources go into hiding him on defense.

[Sugus]

Not that it means anything for Castle's shooting necessarily, but isn't everyone forgetting about Dejounte's markedly improved shooting under the Spurs? That happened mostly after Nephew. Guy came in with a shot broken like his capitalizing, yet grew into being able to shoot two game-winning jump shots this season.

DWhite also became a better and more prolific shooter during his time in SA. Shot .338 from 3 on 2 attempts per game in his first season, and is now shooting .396 on almost 7 3PA. Great developement.

Ultimately, though, I prefer a PG who is already a shooting threat coming out of the draft. Only one Sochan at a time, please.

[pad300]

It’s the same risk for everyone. Nothing to be nervous about. There isn’t one complete, well rounded prospect in this draft. It’s not like you’re going to miss on a sure thing. There aren’t any. The last draft this uncertain was 2013, Anthony Bennet was selected #1, and the best two players were drafted as raw projects, a skinny kid from Greece at #15, and a tall skinny kid from France at #27.

Devin Carter says you're wrong. That said, it's quite hard to get excited about getting a guy like him at 4 or 8...

[exstatic]

Devin Carter says you're wrong. That said, it's quite hard to get excited about getting a guy like him at 4 or 8...

He seems like one of the 6’3” guys that they’re always trying to shoehorn into the PG spot, but is really a small SG. 3.6 assists to 2.7 TOs doesn’t give me a real play making vibe. If he were 6’7”, though, he’d be getting strong top 3 buzz, age notwithstanding.

[AFBlue]

Every team has a "type", and this guy fits the Spurs' type like a glove...big playmaker with sound defense. Sure the shooting is a question, but if it wasn't then he'd go top-2 (and still might). I'm good with the Spurs taking him if they think they can turn him into DJ 2.0.

[pad300]

He seems like one of the 6’3” guys that they’re always trying to shoehorn into the PG spot, but is really a small SG. 3.6 assists to 2.7 TOs doesn’t give me a real play making vibe. If he were 6’7”, though, he’d be getting strong top 3 buzz, age notwithstanding.

Yes, he is that 6'3" guy; that's why he's not exciting at 4 or 8. If he develops enough playmaking to be a legit PG in the NBA, he'll be a supercharged Derrick White, which would be a great pick. Problem is that he's 22 already, and I doubt he has that kind of development in him...

[Uriel]

God damn I wish we still had Chip. If so Castle would be my obvious first choice after he taught Kawhi chunk the ball over his head Leonard to have near perfect Kobe like form on his jumper. I'd even take Castle #1 if Chip was still here. But without him and looking at how Sochan, Wesley, and Branham haven't developed much on their shot in two years (outside of Sochan's free throw) I think I'm leaning Dillingham over Castle. Though if the Spurs think Castle has a Kawhi like work ethic I wouldn't fault them taking him.
Didn’t we hire a replacement for Chip though?

[Uriel]

It’s often said that if Castle could learn how to shoot, he would have star potential. But the same thing could be said about a lot of prospects. If Risacher could learn how to dribble, he would have star potential. If Dillingham could learn how to defend, he would have star potential. Etc.

[Vienna]

It’s often said that if Castle could learn how to shoot, he would have star potential. But the same thing could be said about a lot of prospects. If Risacher could learn how to dribble, he would have star potential. If Dillingham could learn how to defend, he would have star potential. Etc.

yes, but what can you do? if any of the top prospects did have one flaw less, he would be the sure fire #1 pick. but we have to draft someone and place a bet on something. there is a better chance that Castle develops a better shot than Dillingham growing two inches. I think Castle's shot doesn't look totally broken, so I would place a bet on him getting better in this department.

[Pauleta14]

Yes, he is that 6'3" guy; that's why he's not exciting at 4 or 8. If he develops enough playmaking to be a legit PG in the NBA, he'll be a supercharged Derrick White, which would be a great pick. Problem is that he's 22 already, and I doubt he has that kind of development in him...

No idea what he'll become but it's a bad argument considering DWhite was almost 23 when drafted...

[Pauleta14]

Didn’t we hire a replacement for Chip though?

As for all the staff, I don't know any business where you keep the same quality with huge tunover of personnel.

Don't know the new shooting coach, but we all know Chip was special. His work on TP and Kawhi are legendary

[Pauleta14]

It’s often said that if Castle could learn how to shoot, he would have star potential. But the same thing could be said about a lot of prospects. If Risacher could learn how to dribble, he would have star potential. If Dillingham could learn how to defend, he would have star potential. Etc.

Does he have the character for? I haven't read much about that tbh

More than the skillset, it's what matters, if not a guy like Boris Diaw shoul've been a supestar

[exstatic]

No idea what he'll become but it's a bad argument considering DWhite was almost 23 when drafted...

DWhite was drafted at #29. No one in the lottery would touch him. We’re talking about our 4 and 8 picks. Even late lottery can be a risk for such a pick. Indy picked 23 YO Chris Duarte at #13, and he had a good rookie year, making the all rookie team. He then had precipitous drops each of the next two seasons, eventually getting dumped to Sacramento.

People always make the White comparison, but the reality is that he’s a role player, and most of the older draftees become role players, and you should be aiming a bit higher with two top 10 picks. We’ll have plenty of time to draft role players over the next 15 years, or so. We need that second complementary star, and he’s not likely to either walk through the free agency door, or be an older draftee.

[pad300]

Yes, he is that 6'3" guy; that's why he's not exciting at 4 or 8. If he develops enough playmaking to be a legit PG in the NBA, he'll be a supercharged Derrick White, which would be a great pick. Problem is that he's 22 already, and I doubt he has that kind of development in him...


No idea what he'll become but it's a bad argument considering DWhite was almost 23 when drafted...

The issue I'm alluding to is that D White had all the bones of his current skillset when drafted. Carter has a missing tent pole - PG level passing - and at 22 he's had lots of time for it to start showing if he can do it...

[Pauleta14]

DWhite was drafted at #29. No one in the lottery would touch him. We’re talking about our 4 and 8 picks. Even late lottery can be a risk for such a pick. Indy picked 23 YO Chris Duarte at #13, and he had a good rookie year, making the all rookie team. He then had precipitous drops each of the next two seasons, eventually getting dumped to Sacramento.

People always make the White comparison, but the reality is that he’s a role player, and most of the older draftees become role players, and you should be aiming a bit higher with two top 10 picks. We’ll have plenty of time to draft role players over the next 15 years, or so. We need that second complementary star, and he’s not likely to either walk through the free agency door, or be an older draftee.


The issue I'm alluding to is that D White had all the bones of his current skillset when drafted. Carter has a missing tent pole - PG level passing - and at 22 he's had lots of time for it to start showing if he can do it...

Fair enough

I don't mind taking a chance with Castle but I'd play the numbers and draft at least one shooter who can play off ball (Reed or why not Knetch. Dilli "tininess" scares me)

[Atl Spur]

I think this kid has the right makeup for team, he will be a better pro than college athlete.

[Mr. Body]

I think this kid has the right makeup for team, he will be a better pro than college athlete.

The mental fit is excellent. The fact that he transformed his game in order to help his team, as a freshman, is astounding. He doesn't get enough credit for this. The maturity and BBIQ here is off the scale.

[BackHome]

Good post.
Bold part is the bit I think should be the priority.

Regardless of how the rest of the rotation is built, we ideally want a volume shooter with size at the other forward position.
Someone who's at least a neutral defender, can average 7 to 8 rebounds per game and can shoot lights out.
Doesn't need to do much else. Just rebound, shoot whenever he gets the ball and cut.

I've said many times that we shouldn't deal with Ainge and his ridiculous demands, but Markkanen would be so good next to Wemby.
His role is basically 7ft Klay.
There's also MPJ. He's obviously a tier below Markkanen, but he'd be fairly easy to get if Denver decides to get rid of him due to their salary issues.

Ideal scenario would be Castle developing his skillset like DJ did, Devin taking the next step as a playmaker and then two lights out volume shooters that never stop moving.

While if we get Dillingham a lot of resources go into hiding him on defense.

Just trade our 8th pick to New York for there 24th & 25th pick and pick up:
1. Johnny Furphy - 3p% .352
2. Kyshawn George - 3p% .408
3. Baylor Scheierman - 3p% .381

[exstatic]

Just trade our 8th pick to New York for there 24th & 25th pick and pick up:
1. Johnny Furphy - 3p% .352
2. Kyshawn George - 3p% .408
3. Baylor Scheierman - 3p% .381


Spurs tanked hard to stay below Toronto to increase the chances of getting their pick, so I really don’t see them trading back. That’s actually a horrible trade, too. The pick values aren’t even close. Spurs and Knicks also don’t transact much, if at all. The Knicks accused us of tampering with Porzingas when he was there. They’ve done shit like Marcus Morris since, so I doubt that PATFO would be down with sending them a #8 pick, for two shitty late FRPs. You can get those kinds of players in the second if you want to make all of our picks, and you aren’t on the hook for two MORE guaranteed contracts, plus you keep #8.

[rankingtear]

It is funny that his low end comp is Winslow. Winslow is also one of the guys demanding to play the point and destroyed any value he had in the process.

[Mr. Body]

It is funny that his low end comp is Winslow. Winslow is also one of the guys demanding to play the point and destroyed any value he had in the process.

It seems that Winslow didn't care a ton about basketball and had injury problems. In some regards similar to Josh Jackson, who also had really great college stats.

An object of interest is Winslow and Jackson's shooting percentage in college:

Josh Jackson .378 from three, .566 from the line
Justice Winslow, .418 from three, .641 from the line

Stephon Castle, .267 from three, .755 from the line

Someone pointed out if Castle made three of his missed 3-pointers, he'd jump up to .307 percent for the year. I don't know if there's an answer here, but it suggests that Jackson and Winslow were never the shooters they were made out to be.

Also, Justice Winslow is a trailer park name. Stephon Castle is a god-tier name.

[Vienna]

The mental fit is excellent. The fact that he transformed his game in order to help his team, as a freshman, is astounding. He doesn't get enough credit for this. The maturity and BBIQ here is off the scale.

that's why I would be pretty sure, that he will improve his shooting. he will practise his shot as much as possible and he won't lose confidence and piss himself after two missed tries.

and I'm sure he will adjust his role to what is best for the team success.

so maybe his floor is Iguodala? from the physical aspects they are very similar and so are their skill sets.
Iggy was a horrible shooter in his first college year and he still was a bad one in his second.
yes, he never developed an above average shot, but good enough to survive.
he wasn't good enough to be the franchise player, therefore he would have needed to shoot better, but perfect in his role with a dynasty, because he had the mind set.
do you take prime Iggy to play alongside Wemby? I would.

[DAF86]

that's why I would be pretty sure, that he will improve his shooting. he will practise his shot as much as possible and he won't lose confidence and piss himself after two missed tries.

and I'm sure he will adjust his role to what is best for the team success.

so maybe his floor is Iguodala? from the physical aspects they are very similar and so are their skill sets.
Iggy was a horrible shooter in his first college year and he still was a bad one in his second.
yes, he never developed an above average shot, but good enough to survive.
he wasn't good enough to be the franchise player, therefore he would have needed to shoot better, but perfect in his role with a dynasty, because he had the mind set.
do you take prime Iggy to play alongside Wemby? I would.

Iggy is close to Castle's ceiling, it is not his fucking floor, tbh. :lol

[TD 21]

The difference is, Iguodala was an elite athlete the same way the Thompson twins are and to a lesser extent Suggs is. Castle doesn't have that going for him either.

:lmao At the Warriors being a dynasty.

[Mr. Body]

I thought Iguodala would have Castle beat in advanced stats coming out of college, especially as a sophomore. That's not the case.

So you have guys like Justice Winslow and Josh Jackson blowing them out of the water in advanced stats and Iguodala was far better in the pros.

[ulosturedge]

Originally I was excited seeing Castle's highlights, but after getting into the scouting report I just don't see how he is a fit. Can't really be a combo guard if you can't shoot. And supposedly he stated that he only wants to be drafted by a Team that will take him seriously playing the Point. But nothing he has done thus far shows that he even has the ability to be a good point guard. He isn't a guy who can destroy you at the rim with his penetration. Isn't shooting a hard thing to teach if you don't already got it? There are no obvious choices here, but I think Reed Sheppard would be a better fit with what he brings with his skillset. Stephon is in no mans land to me. He is not a point guard nor is he a shooting guard. So what do you do with him?

[rankingtear]

Originally I was excited seeing Castle's highlights, but after getting into the scouting report I just don't see how he is a fit. Can't really be a combo guard if you can't shoot. And supposedly he stated that he only wants to be drafted by a Team that will take him seriously playing the Point. But nothing he has done thus far shows that he even has the ability to be a good point guard. He isn't a guy who can destroy you at the rim with his penetration. Isn't shooting a hard thing to teach if you don't already got it? There are no obvious choices here, but I think Reed Sheppard would be a better fit with what he brings with his skillset. Stephon is in no mans land to me. He is not a point guard nor is he a shooting guard. So what do you do with him?

He looks average on full games. He plays so slow. I am thinking at PG that he would ran off the clock with that Harden pace.

[DPG21920]

Man there seems to be no consensus on Castle. Im seeing a lot of tier rankings that have Castle as a late first, early 2nd type player. Now, that’s probably not consensus and its not necessarily from the most famous draft people, but it’s stood out to me as I’ve navigated a bunch of different draft tier rankings how many are low on Castle.

[onechance87]

my fear is castle trying to be a pg can end up being like sochan at pg.Do we really want to go that route again?We held wemby back by not giving
him real pg at the start of the season.We saw wemby blossom with tre jones and even granham running pg.

[CGD]

Man there seems to be no consensus on Castle. Im seeing a lot of tier rankings that have Castle as a late first, early 2nd type player. Now, that’s probably not consensus and its not necessarily from the most famous draft people, but it’s stood out to me as I’ve navigated a bunch of different draft tier rankings how many are low on Castle.

All the big gossip rags have him falling no further than 6. And, the fit is actually pretty damn good between Melo and Miller. I bet his camp saw that a mile away and encouraged him to do the “only PG” stuff bc CHA is seen as a crappy situation.

If the Spurs want him they’ll need to take him at 4 or trade up to 5 (8 + multiple SRPs).

[DAF86]

All the big gossip rags have him falling no further than 6. And, the fit is actually pretty damn good between Melo and Miller. I bet his camp saw that a mile away and encouraged him to do the “only PG” stuff bc CHA is seen as a crappy situation.

If the Spurs want him they’ll need to take him at 4 or trade up to 5 (8 + multiple SRPs).

Well, they did do the whole "only PG" thing, so there's a high chance the Hornets don't take him because of it. Same thing with the Blazers and Pistons. There's a high chance Castle is there at 8. I wouldn't draft him at 4, tbh.

[objective]

There's a Ben Pfeifer YouTube scouting video going over whether he's a point guard.

Spoiler: at least to Pfeifer, the answer is 'no' and there's video comparisons with other tall point guards in high school and Castle didn't come out well.. The actual comp for Castle that Pfeifer had with video believe it or not was Jarrett Culver.

Just his opinion. He seems low on everyone though.

[Ariel]

Castle is just about the exact same size as Jaime Jaquez and Jimmy Butler:
https://i.postimg.cc/BnMTYN9R/castle.png
So far he projects to be more of a secondary playmaker than a true PG, but as long as he learns too shoot it he'd be really valuable PG or not PG

[Mr. Body]

All the big gossip rags have him falling no further than 6. And, the fit is actually pretty damn good between Melo and Miller. I bet his camp saw that a mile away and encouraged him to do the “only PG” stuff bc CHA is seen as a crappy situation.

If the Spurs want him they’ll need to take him at 4 or trade up to 5 (8 + multiple SRPs).

Some draft gurus sniffed out the comment as anti-targeting certain teams, which seems to be Charlotte. After playing for UConn, I'd try to steer clear from there if at all possible. I don't put much stock in his need to play as a ball-dominant PG. Vecenie doesn't read it that way and I don't think any rational person reads it that way. But it wouldn't be draft season without people freaking out over the littlest of things.

I do think he values the ability to make decisions and be involved in offense, which he wouldn't do for the Hornets. People gnawing their fingernails to the bone about his abilities don't need to: He'll be fine making all kinds of actions. He sets great screens, can see passes, cuts extremely well. Who's imagining him being a 30% usage guy? Nobody. Not even him. Most important, what you're getting is the defense.

And yes, anybody who says defense doesn't matter needs to be laughed at. Heartily.

[T Park]

Tyler Rucker of No Cielings in a spaces on Sunday afternoon pretty much said "If I were a Spurs fan, id get comfortable with Castle at 4, with what im hearing"


the tea leaves have been reading that way for a while now, and Id personally be shocked, if Castle isn't the pick at 4

[Mr. Body]

Tyler Rucker of No Cielings in a spaces on Sunday afternoon pretty much said "If I were a Spurs fan, id get comfortable with Castle at 4, with what im hearing"


the tea leaves have been reading that way for a while now, and Id personally be shocked, if Castle isn't the pick at 4

Pretty much. Washington could go Castle but I don't think that's the right pick.

And I would not be surprised for even a second if the Spurs pick Castle over Risacher. Castle is 100% the player you want here.

[benefactor]

If Castle is the pick at 4 then so be it. I feel like Shepperd is the better pick because the Spurs badly need shooting, but both of them provide things that the team needs.

[scott]

Fun thread to get caught up on. As I was reading it, my mind went to Shawn Marion. .299 3P% in college with .730 FT%. He only ended up a .331 career 3P% in the NBA (and .810 FT%), but the league was different then and his career averages are really hampered by some straight garbage 3P performances late in his career after he left Phoenix. For his 9 seasons with the Suns he was a .342 3P%, but his 4th season in the league he got up to .387 on 4.5 attempts per game, which was also his career high in terms of volume.

This is an imperfect comparison because he wasn't really known as a 3P threat and it was a different time in the league... but here was a guy with atrocious shooting form who still was serviceable and I think would be a nice player in today's game if he could sustain those year 4 numbers. Really good defender, and he definitely seemed to show up big against us.

Just thought of him as a different kind of player comp for Castle.

[rankingtear]

Tyler Rucker of No Cielings in a spaces on Sunday afternoon pretty much said "If I were a Spurs fan, id get comfortable with Castle at 4, with what im hearing"


the tea leaves have been reading that way for a while now, and Id personally be shocked, if Castle isn't the pick at 4

Don't forget it is smokescreen time of year. More likely he is not the guy if it is too loud before workouts are finished, cause more likely it is agent driven.

[exstatic]

Pretty much. Washington could go Castle but I don't think that's the right pick.

And I would not be surprised for even a second if the Spurs pick Castle over Risacher. Castle is 100% the player you want here.

Isn’t he redundant to and a smaller version of Avdija?

[Knoxxx]

If Castle is the pick at 4 then so be it. I feel like Shepperd is the better pick because the Spurs badly need shooting, but both of them provide things that the team needs.

I think there are things to consider such as team offense, defense, and the whole being greater than the sum of the parts. That said, Castle played well in a complex system at the highest level of his league (NCAA) as a freshman. And, I think regardless of his 3 PT and jump shooting percentage, Castle looks to me like a player who can outplay his matchup. In other words, outscore or otherwise just beat the person he is matched up against. For example, maybe he doesn't outscore an SGA, but he disrupts the OKC offense enough when guarding him that he is easily a net positive in the matchup.

However, I thought the clear mock order was Sheppard then Castle. If true for the Rockets and Spurs, that is the reason we are taking Castle not Sheppard, the latter is not expected to be there. If Sheppard is there at 4, I think the Spurs take him but of course we are all just guessing until draft night.

[TD 21]

Fun thread to get caught up on. As I was reading it, my mind went to Shawn Marion. .299 3P% in college with .730 FT%. He only ended up a .331 career 3P% in the NBA (and .810 FT%), but the league was different then and his career averages are really hampered by some straight garbage 3P performances late in his career after he left Phoenix. For his 9 seasons with the Suns he was a .342 3P%, but his 4th season in the league he got up to .387 on 4.5 attempts per game, which was also his career high in terms of volume.

This is an imperfect comparison because he wasn't really known as a 3P threat and it was a different time in the league... but here was a guy with atrocious shooting form who still was serviceable and I think would be a nice player in today's game if he could sustain those year 4 numbers. Really good defender, and he definitely seemed to show up big against us.

Just thought of him as a different kind of player comp for Castle.

Poor comp. Marion was a freak athlete with the body of a SF, but block and rebound rates of a big, which allowed him to transition to (and arguably create) small ball PF.

As you said, his mediocre - poor 3-point shooting also wasn't as big of a deal in his era.

Castle is the same player the Spurs almost always draft in one way or another. No natural position/role on offense, no dynamic physical tools, analytics and prior history of archetype that indicates a high bust rate, etc. They never learn though and why should they when there's never any accountability.

[Extra Stout]

Castle is the same player the Spurs almost always draft in one way or another. No natural position/role on offense, no dynamic physical tools, analytics and prior history of archetype that indicates a high bust rate, etc. They never learn though and why should they when there's never any accountability.
I think you have a point here. The Spurs love these so-called “multi-skilled” players who yet somehow are deficient in one or more basic skills that you’re just left hoping they develop. They love the Swiss Army knife, “connective” players, but you don’t have a body if all you have are ligaments and tendons with no bones or muscles. The connective players have to connect to something besides just Wembanyama.

[TD 21]

I think you have a point here. The Spurs love these so-called “multi-skilled” players who yet somehow are deficient in one or more basic skills that you’re just left hoping they develop. They love the Swiss Army knife, “connective” players, but you don’t have a body if all you have are ligaments and tendons with no bones or muscles. The connective players have to connect to something besides just Wembanyama.

Exactly. They're consumed with trying to be the next Celtics or Thunder but seem to be forgetting that it's not enough to have positional size and be stout defensively. There's another half of that equation, which is shot creation and shooting.

They keep prioritizing players who don't have it and believing they'll be the ones to fix it, seemingly oblivious to the fact that they've repeatedly failed at it.

[Mr. Body]

Exactly. They're consumed with trying to be the next Celtics or Thunder but seem to be forgetting that it's not enough to have positional size and be stout defensively. There's another half of that equation, which is shot creation and shooting.

They keep prioritizing players who don't have it and believing they'll be the ones to fix it, seemingly oblivious to the fact that they've repeatedly failed at it.

I have no clue who you're talking about. Sochan?

That's it? That's the entirety of your complaint? One player?

[rascal]

I have no clue who you're talking about. Sochan?

That's it? That's the entirety of your complaint? One player?

Sochan, Cissoko, Wesley, Branham, Primo, Murray, Leonard, Luka (Bunch of players who needed to improve on shooting and shot creation when drafted)

[baseline bum]

If Castle is the pick at 4 then so be it. I feel like Shepperd is the better pick because the Spurs badly need shooting, but both of them provide things that the team needs.

I have a hard time seeing Houston pass on Sheppard if they don't move that pick though.

[Mr. Body]

Sochan, Cissoko, Wesley, Branham, Primo, Murray, Leonard, Luka (Bunch of players who needed to improve on shooting and shot creation when drafted)

Did you just make up a category and put everyone in it?

[Extra Stout]

There’s a side of me that really likes Castle and thinks he would add a lot to the Spurs.
But there are red flags:
— The shooting, obviously.
— He says he’s going to insist on playing point guard and won’t work out for teams that already have one. This is sort of being hand-waved away as a ploy to get on the Spurs. But how many players do something like that? Does it nullify his team-first approach at UConn? Is he even really a true point guard? If he’s being viewed as this high-character gym rat, how does dictating his role before he even gets drafted align with that?
— Is he athletic or isn’t he? My eye test says he’s more tenacious than he is athletic.
— Is he or is he not just a defensive-minded combo guard? And is that what the Spurs really need?

[exstatic]

There’s a side of me that really likes Castle and thinks he would add a lot to the Spurs.
But there are red flags:
— The shooting, obviously.
— He says he’s going to insist on playing point guard and won’t work out for teams that already have one. This is sort of being hand-waved away as a ploy to get on the Spurs. But how many players do something like that? Does it nullify his team-first approach at UConn? Is he even really a true point guard? If he’s being viewed as this high-character gym rat, how does dictating his role before he even gets drafted align with that?
— Is he athletic or isn’t he? My eye test says he’s more tenacious than he is athletic.
— Is he or is he not just a defensive-minded combo guard? And is that what the Spurs really need?

He actually never said that. The second part of the sentence is true, though. My take is that he doesn’t want to go somewhere with a heliocentric PG, and he never touches the ball. The school he picked was the ultimate share the ball offense, even though he could have picked any school with his HS ranking, and dominated the ball if that was his thing.

[onechance87]

There’s a side of me that really likes Castle and thinks he would add a lot to the Spurs.
But there are red flags:
— The shooting, obviously.
— He says he’s going to insist on playing point guard and won’t work out for teams that already have one. This is sort of being hand-waved away as a ploy to get on the Spurs. But how many players do something like that? Does it nullify his team-first approach at UConn? Is he even really a true point guard? If he’s being viewed as this high-character gym rat, how does dictating his role before he even gets drafted align with that?
— Is he athletic or isn’t he? My eye test says he’s more tenacious than he is athletic.
— Is he or is he not just a defensive-minded combo guard? And is that what the Spurs really need?

yup....i hope hes open minded and understands he may not be a pg in the nba.Hopefully the spurs talk to
him about this before drafting him.

[R. DeMurre]

One of my concerns with Castle is that his D is actually being overrated. He played for a Connecticut team that was great defensively, and all of his defensive impact stats put him 5th among starters, with Clingan and Spencer leading the way by a good margin, and even Karaban and Newton rating out ahead of Castle. Castle's DRtg looks great in a vaccum, but it's only 7th on the team among guys with 600+ minutes.


https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/connecticut/men/2024.html

[exstatic]

One of my concerns with Castle is that his D is actually being overrated. He played for a Connecticut team that was great defensively, and all of his defensive impact stats put him 5th among starters, with Clingan and Spencer leading the way by a good margin, and even Karaban and Newton rating out ahead of Castle. Castle's DRtg looks great in a vaccum, but it's only 7th on the team among guys with 600+ minutes.


https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/connecticut/men/2024.html

Sometimes, the POA defender takes it in the shorts on Drtg. Bruce Bowen was tied for 10th on the 2002-2003 championship squad, yet still made the All D team.

[DPG21920]

One of my concerns with Castle is that his D is actually being overrated. He played for a Connecticut team that was great defensively, and all of his defensive impact stats put him 5th among starters, with Clingan and Spencer leading the way by a good margin, and even Karaban and Newton rating out ahead of Castle. Castle's DRtg looks great in a vaccum, but it's only 7th on the team among guys with 600+ minutes.


https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/connecticut/men/2024.html

Agreed. I feel like I have to add caveats all the time so here it is: I would still be fine with SA drafting Castle. But I really have more concerns than most it seems with him. Theres a lot of bust potential here, more than meets the eye. His upside is still there so that’s good and its not like I love anyone a ton more outside of Reed/Holland, but he screams “meh” to me

[LeBowen]

If reports of Castle being a high character guy, hard worker and a great teammate are true, it's the obvious Spurs pick, especially after Sochan experiment last season.
Just because Sochan wasn't capable of playing that role, it doesn't mean Pop has given up on it.
Even if he doesn't develop into a traditional point guard, Castle would surely be able to play the role Sochan was supposed to.

If using #4 pick on a such player is worth it, I don't know.
Castle-Sochan fit would be an issue. If we're to start winning games, that is.
Two of them would never be able to play together with their current (non-)shooting skills.
An even bigger issue is that Pop would still do it. :lol

Shooting is invaluable these days and in some cases players that can't do anything but shoot are more valuable than players than do everything else well.

[KobesAchilles]

We have no shooting and are picking up a player who can’t shoot.

[BatManu20]

Castle is still my pet cat in this draft, shooting concerns be damned. I think he's going to improve considerably in that department over time, and that's really the only thing keeping him from becoming a future All-Star caliber player. The two players he's most often compared to, Jimmy Butler and Jrue Holiday, both shared similar shooting concerns entering the league, and both turned themselves into multiple-time All-Stars who are now plus shooters in their careers. Add on top of that the fact that he's unselfish, a high character kid, and he fits a position of need for us, and I think it's a no brainer pick if he's still on the board at 4 tbh.

[BatManu20]

1800163493582447061

[SpursDynasty85]

Castle is still my pet cat in this draft, shooting concerns be damned. I think he's going to improve considerably in that department over time, and that's really the only thing keeping him from becoming a future All-Star caliber player. The two players he's most often compared to, Jimmy Butler and Jrue Holiday, both shared similar shooting concerns entering the league, and both turned themselves into multiple-time All-Stars who are now plus shooters in their careers. Add on top of that the fact that he's unselfish, a high character kid, and he fits a position of need for us, and I think it's a no brainer pick if he's still on the board at 4 tbh.

He moves and plays like Jimmy Butler tbh. Butler looks more muscular and also is more about his tenacity and clutch gene.

[Mr. Body]

1800163493582447061

Yeah but defense doesn't matter or some fucking shit.

[TD 21]

Sochan, Cissoko, Wesley, Branham, Primo, Murray, Leonard, Luka (Bunch of players who needed to improve on shooting and shot creation when drafted)

Exactly. Most of them, the hits and the misses, became more or less what the scouting report indicated beforehand.

Sure, Scumbag hit a stratosphere offensively no one could have foreseen (though he's probably on the spectrum, which gives him a level of focus, determination and aptitude with certain things that most people can't conceive of), but he has C length and PF strength in the body of an SF, which led to an elite steal and rebound (for position) rates.

Similar story with Anderson and Murray. They all had foundations to build off of.

Then you have the Sochan's and Castle's of the world, who don't even have that going for them. The former brings the body of a PF combined with the deficiencies of a rim running C, but without the strengths of one. He's the worst of both worlds.

The latter looks like a guard version in the making. Doesn't have primary skills and this team doesn't have the spacing or play making for his supposed secondary skills to thrive.

[DAF86]

I have no clue who you're talking about. Sochan?

That's it? That's the entirety of your complaint? One player?

I didn't even think of Sochan when TD21 talked about that archetype. I thought of Primo, Wesley, Branham, Dejounte, White. All combo guards with size for the position but without a single elite trait.

[DAF86]

Castle is still my pet cat in this draft, shooting concerns be damned. I think he's going to improve considerably in that department over time, and that's really the only thing keeping him from becoming a future All-Star caliber player. The two players he's most often compared to, Jimmy Butler and Jrue Holiday, both shared similar shooting concerns entering the league, and both turned themselves into multiple-time All-Stars who are now plus shooters in their careers. Add on top of that the fact that he's unselfish, a high character kid, and he fits a position of need for us, and I think it's a no brainer pick if he's still on the board at 4 tbh.

I don't know anything about Jrue's and Butler's college profile. Did they take mid range jumpers?

My problem with Castle isn't just that he's a bad 3pt shooter, he doesn't even see the hoop from midrange. He would rather take awkard floaters than taking a wide open 15 footer. I could live with a subpar 3pt shooting % if he at least hit the midrange at a decent clip (specially if he's gonna be on-ball), but he doesn't even see the hoop from that distance.

[duncan2150]

I don't know anything about Jrue's and Butler's college profile. Did they take mid range jumpers?My problem with Castle isn't just that he's a bad 3pt shooter, he doesn't even see the hoop from midrange. He would rather take awkard floaters than taking a wide open 15 footer. I could live with a subpar 3pt shooting % if he at least hit the midrange at a decent clip (specially if he's gonna be on-ball), but he doesn't even see the hoop from that distance.If you look at the high school tape, he was taking some mid range jumpers and some threes, don't know why it changed last year with uconn...but if he can shoot one year ago, he's capable of finding his rythm next year like the last coupe of weeks with uconn.

[DAF86]

If you look at the high school tape, he was taking some mid range jumpers and some threes, don't know why it changed last year with uconn...but if he can shoot one year ago, he's capable of finding his rythm next year like the last coupe of weeks with uconn.

Before seeing your reply I was watching exactly that:

lfU8XHOXyPY?si=7S9ZdQUaWH49UX23

This gives me hope, tbh. I know it's high school but if he can go back to that, I could buy into him.

Trying to force myself into the Castle hype, it might not be the worst of outcomes to draft him, give him the keys to try to go back to that while the Spurs suck for one more year and get a lottery pick on the, supossedly stacked, upcoming draft.

I might turn myself into a believer. Are you in TD21?

[Knoxxx]

Castle is most certainly a five star player coming into UConn. One thing being somewhat overlooked I believe is his ability to get inside and use his strength to finish at the rim. Don’t sleep on his athleticism either as indicated by his recipient status on alley oops slams. The two man lob game both directions with Clingan is also a thing of beauty. Let’s make no mistake that Castle has Alpha qualities, possibly to the tune of 22 PPG.

[rascal]

Before seeing your reply I was watching exactly that:

lfU8XHOXyPY?si=7S9ZdQUaWH49UX23

This gives me hope, tbh. I know it's high school but if he can go back to that, I could buy into him.

Trying to force myself into the Castle hype, it might not be the worst of outcomes to draft him, give him the keys to try to go back to that while the Spurs suck for one more year and get a lottery pick on the, supossedly stacked, upcoming draft.

I might turn myself into a believer. Are you in TD21?

You're too low on Castle.

His game will be much more than what you saw at UCONN. He is definitely the best pick at 4 if he's there.

He's a better shooter than his numbers indicate. It's good his 3 pt % is low(on low volume and he got off to a slow start coming back from a knee injury early in the season) that may keep him in the Spur's draft range.

[TD 21]

Before seeing your reply I was watching exactly that:

lfU8XHOXyPY?si=7S9ZdQUaWH49UX23

This gives me hope, tbh. I know it's high school but if he can go back to that, I could buy into him.

Trying to force myself into the Castle hype, it might not be the worst of outcomes to draft him, give him the keys to try to go back to that while the Spurs suck for one more year and get a lottery pick on the, supossedly stacked, upcoming draft.

I might turn myself into a believer. Are you in TD21 (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=908)?

Oh no, they've got you too.

This is like one of those awful zombie apocalypse movies that's been made 10000 times where one by one they infect people until there's almost no one left . . . luckily, I'm the star of this movie though, which means I'm going to singlehandedly fend off the masses and find some antidote that magically changes things back to normal.

[DAF86]

Oh no, they've got you too.

This is like one of those awful zombie apocalypse movies that's been made 10000 times where one by one they infect people until there's almost no one left . . . luckily, I'm the star of this movie though, which means I'm going to singlehandedly fend off the masses and find some antidote that magically changes things back to normal.

One could say I'm the black guy on this case. :lol

[DAF86]

I don't know, I'm not gonna sweat it too much. Hopefully PATFO gets it right this time.

[TD 21]

One could say I'm the black guy on this case. :lol

Nah, it's too far into the movie . . . you'd have been the first to go in that case.

[spurraider21]

no matter how hard i squint or how much i tilt my head, i just really dont see a point guard in castle... and if thats the role he's being drafted for (ie, if drafting him rules out drafting a real point guard at 8), then this is turning into a very disappointing scenario imo

castle being drafed as a wing to be a defender who can find a role on offense without being a great shooter like lance stephenson is fine, and then starting developing at least a corner 3 point shot would be gravy. but the point guard stuff isnt resonating with me. he's not sudden enough with the ball in his hands. he cant punish defenders going under screens, as he cant pull up for 3 and also has no midrange game. a lot of people are throwing weird jimmy butler comps as if castle shows signs of a good midrange/post game or something, which he just doesnt. i think lance is a lot closer. or younger tony allen with less hops.

[spurraider21]

the more i think on it the more i think the Lance Stephenson comp is the one ive been looking for all along (albeit polar opposite from the mental/character standpoint). or a poor man's iguodala (not remotely as quick or athletic)

taking him at 4 as a point guard means you are betting on him being more tyreke evans, but i see virtually none of that out of him in uconn. high school tape isnt compelling evidence to me

[Strategic]

If Castle is the pick at 4 then so be it. I feel like Shepperd is the better pick because the Spurs badly need shooting, but both of them provide things that the team needs. I know what you’re saying about scoring but I worry about years of Sheppard getting isolated on defense.

[exstatic]

I didn't even think of Sochan when TD21 talked about that archetype. I thought of Primo, Wesley, Branham, Dejounte, White. All combo guards with size for the position but without a single elite trait.

White has ALWAYS been a fucking elite defender. His blarges (blocks/charges drawn) were off the charts.

[DAF86]

White has ALWAYS been a fucking elite defender. His blarges (blocks/charges drawn) were off the charts.

He wasn't seen as an elite defender coming up the draft.

[DAF86]

This guy analyzes Castle's shooting form at the 7:00 minute mark:

eXAudsmBDcM?si=Q-q3jREvlmcqjPqk

It seems like the same fix that Kawhi needed: shoot it from your eyes, instead of above your head. It might be an easy enough fix, specially 'cause he seems to have a nice soft touch, tbh.

[benefactor]

I know what you’re saying about scoring but I worry about years of Sheppard getting isolated on defense.
Yeah he will get shot over some but having a generational defender behind you will cover a multitude of ills. Being able shoot level he can is huge need and outweighs the potential defensive issues

[PhantomDashCam]

https://youtu.be/b8euinXChoI?si=IQJXSVo7wQ23E6ej

Towards the end they ask Krysten what is her spicy draft take.

”The Spurs are going to draft Stephon Castle…but they are going to have to trade up to do it…”

Sounds like Washington at #2 if there is indeed smoke there…

[Mr. Body]

https://youtu.be/b8euinXChoI?si=IQJXSVo7wQ23E6ej

Towards the end they ask Krysten what is her spicy draft take.

”The Spurs are going to draft Stephon Castle…but they are going to have to trade up to do it…”

Sounds like Washington at #2 if there is indeed smoke there…

Well, it's a spicy hot take, so she's going out on a limb. That said, I do think Castle is the target for the Spurs rather than Risacher. I absolutely would not trade up to get Risacher. Castle is the real get here, especially in this draft. The question is how much I'd give up to get him when I'm super reluctant to move up at all.

My feeling is the Spurs just call everyone's bluff who wants to move down.

[exstatic]

Well, it's a spicy hot take, so she's going out on a limb. That said, I do think Castle is the target for the Spurs rather than Risacher. I absolutely would not trade up to get Risacher. Castle is the real get here, especially in this draft. The question is how much I'd give up to get him when I'm super reluctant to move up at all.

My feeling is the Spurs just call everyone's bluff who wants to move down.

They don’t want to get Ainged.

[CGD]

Well, it's a spicy hot take, so she's going out on a limb. That said, I do think Castle is the target for the Spurs rather than Risacher. I absolutely would not trade up to get Risacher. Castle is the real get here, especially in this draft. The question is how much I'd give up to get him when I'm super reluctant to move up at all.

My feeling is the Spurs just call everyone's bluff who wants to move down.

If they don’t take him with 4, they will def need to trade up. But I don’t buy anyone in the lotto desperate to trade up to 1 or 2. That’s more hopefully dreaming by ATL and WAS.

[Mr. Body]

If they don’t take him with 4, they will def need to trade up. But I don’t buy anyone in the lotto desperate to trade up to 1 or 2. That’s more hopefully dreaming by ATL and WAS.

Yes, definitely agree. This was kind of my point when I was saying that getting a top one or two pick on this draft wasn't really great, that you'd be stuck picking and paying for a role player. Atlanta and Washington get the advantage of who they want, but it's not really worth it in this draft. A pick 4 is nice because it starts splitting the difference. The problem is if you really like a player you might not get.

[DAF86]

https://youtu.be/b8euinXChoI?si=IQJXSVo7wQ23E6ej

Towards the end they ask Krysten what is her spicy draft take.

”The Spurs are going to draft Stephon Castle…but they are going to have to trade up to do it…”

Sounds like Washington at #2 if there is indeed smoke there…

There's no reason to trade up, one of Castle, Risacher, Sheppard will be there at 4. I'm fine with either one. Dilly at 8, and we're set.

[Seventyniner]

There's no reason to trade up, one of Castle, Risacher, Sheppard will be there at 4. I'm fine with either one. Dilly at 8, and we're set.

If for some reason the Spurs are absolutely in love with Castle and think there's any chance he's gone by 4, to them it will be worth trading up.

I don't see the appeal of Castle being so much higher than other players likely to be available at 4 to be worth giving up assets, but I'm not the one making the decisions here.

[Raven]

i'm not really sure who is supposed to take castle other than us...

[DPG21920]

i'm not really sure who is supposed to take castle other than us...

I can absolutely see HOU taking him. He fits IME type big time and they have plenty of fire power on offense. They could absolutely use a “jrue” type on their team .

[LeBowen]

I can absolutely see HOU taking him. He fits IME type big time and they have plenty of fire power on offense. They could absolutely use a “jrue” type on their team .

They already have all the wings they need and they're trying to develop Amen into a point guard.
Him and Castle are way too similar in terms of best case scenario. Unless they trade Amen, I don't think they're even considering Castle.

On the other hand, Sheppard would be a great fit to replace FVV.

[baseline bum]

I can absolutely see HOU taking him. He fits IME type big time and they have plenty of fire power on offense. They could absolutely use a “jrue” type on their team .

They have a better one in Amen; Castle would be a weird fit there and if they took him I would expect it would be for a trade.

[Mr. Body]

Yeah, I think Washington and Houston are both threats to take Castle. Doesn't totally make sense for Houston due to Amen, but they can figure that out later.

For Washington, I don't see how Risacher makes sense at all in terms of fit. Too many forwards yadda yadda. I can see them go for Clingan, but a defensive ace like Castle can improve an awful defensive team. Would Castle be happy watching Kuz and Poole chuck away? Probably not.

And then if Rox trade away their pick, say to Brooklyn, that's a Sean Marks foundational pick to me, is Castle.

I don't think the Spurs would trade up to 2, and definitely not for 4+8. I don't think there's a huge difference among the players, but then I watch Castle defense and then I'm like, 'Oh, yeah, right.' Like, this is exactly the guy the Spurs will want.

[JPB]

there's definitely some comparison to make between Castle and Sochan, not as players but as guys who supposdely can play different postions, with great defense and no shooting (spurs are suposed to fix)...Good at different things, not great at anything.

Still time to improve, but we had great expectations for Sochan and he almost regressed this year with little hope his shooting (and lack of size) will ever make him a starter on a contender. Spurs do love these guys but it could be time to focus on talent and filling the roster with guys who bring even just one potentially elite skill... defense, shooting, playmaking, rim protection...

If they potentially bring two, specially in this draft (let's say Risacher) that's the first pick to me, however you get him. For the second pick, assuming you keep 'em both, one potential elite skill would do it, like Dilly as a scoring 6th man. But you need to start adding talent to this team that badly lacks some, not another couple long shot guys spurs program will magically make all stars but who may never actually develop elite skills

[DR_Admiral]

There's no reason to trade up, one of Castle, Risacher, Sheppard will be there at 4. I'm fine with either one. Dilly at 8, and we're set.

I agree with this approach to the #4 pick.

[LeBowen]

I agree with this approach to the #4 pick.

Agreed, seems to be the most reasonable.

My ideal combinations would be:
Risacher+Dillingham/Carter
Castle+Dillingham
Sheppard+Carter or maybe a project forward like Williams.

I wouldn't want both Sheppard and Dillingham or Castle and Carter.

[DPG21920]

They already have all the wings they need and they're trying to develop Amen into a point guard.
Him and Castle are way too similar in terms of best case scenario. Unless they trade Amen, I don't think they're even considering Castle.

On the other hand, Sheppard would be a great fit to replace FVV.


They have a better one in Amen; Castle would be a weird fit there and if they took him I would expect it would be for a trade.

I see what you’re saying, but I disagree some. Not every team is going to view Castle as a point guard. If you view him as a wing that can also play some PG in a pinc, like I think many do, then I think it makes perfect sense.

You move on from Dillon Brooks and get Castle and I think it makes a ton of sense.

[R. DeMurre]

Dillon Brooks is a stopgap... no reasonable team is changing their draft philosophy because he's on the roster. He wore out his welcome in Memphis, and there's a 99% chance he does the same in Houston.

[baseline bum]

I see what you’re saying, but I disagree some. Not every team is going to view Castle as a point guard. If you view him as a wing that can also play some PG in a pinc, like I think many do, then I think it makes perfect sense.

You move on from Dillon Brooks and get Castle and I think it makes a ton of sense.

OK but then they're drafting a wing when they already have Jalen Green, Jabari Smith, and Cam Whitmore even if they move Brooks? While Sheppard gives them exactly what they're missing with his shooting?

[DPG21920]

OK but then they're drafting a wing when they already have Jalen Green, Jabari Smith, and Cam Whitmore even if they move Brooks? While Sheppard gives them exactly what they're missing with his shooting?

Yup. I think they may feel like they have enough scoring with Jalen, Jabari, Whitmore and want someone with defense and more well rounded. I think it makes complete sense, especially if you buy Castle shot coming around.

[DPG21920]

Dillon Brooks is a stopgap... no reasonable team is changing their draft philosophy because he's on the roster. He wore out his welcome in Memphis, and there's a 99% chance he does the same in Houston.

Exactly - which is why getting a younger more upside version in Castle makes sense to me.

[LeBowen]

Exactly - which is why getting a younger more upside version in Castle makes sense to me.

Brooks and Castle are completely different players on offense.
Half of Brooks' shots this season were 3pt attempts. He's a high volume, subpar 3pt shooter.
He's an average rebounder for his size and has no ballhandling skills whatsoever.
Stopgap 3-D player.

If they're to replace Brooks, it would be with Risacher.

[baseline bum]

Yup. I think they may feel like they have enough scoring with Jalen, Jabari, Whitmore and want someone with defense and more well rounded. I think it makes complete sense, especially if you buy Castle shot coming around.

They don't have enough minutes going around unless they dump one of those three.

[DPG21920]

Brooks and Castle are completely different players on offense.
Half of Brooks' shots this season were 3pt attempts. He's a high volume, subpar 3pt shooter.
He's an average rebounder for his size and has no ballhandling skills whatsoever.
Stopgap 3-D player.

If they're to replace Brooks, it would be with Risacher.

The point of Brooks is to be a well rounded hard nose defensive type…they aren’t counting on his offense. Im saying, that Castle is an overall better prospect (although different on offense at the moment) with similar hard nosed defensive qualities with more upside overall on offense IF he develops.

[DPG21920]

They don't have enough minutes going around unless they dump one of those three.

I dont think they are worried about that with Castle or any draft pick. If they are, they would likely be trading up for Clingan. They are just trading the pick or taking BPA which for them may be Castle

[LeBowen]

The point of Brooks is to be a well rounded hard nose defensive type…they aren’t counting on his offense.

They most definitely are counting on his spacing.
Sengun has no range whatsoever. Can't have another non-shoter in the starting lineup.
Amen comes off the bench and doesn't play that many minutes with Sengun.
Amen and Castle just can't share the floor.

Much like Castle and Sochan. That would be my biggest question mark with Castle.
But we're still far away and in BPA phase, even if it's not a good fit. But no way two of them would start together.


Im saying, that Castle is an overall better prospect (although different on offense at the moment) with similar hard nosed defensive qualities with more upside overall on offense IF he develops.

Obviously, Brooks is just a solid role player. But shooting is the most important skill on offense for perimeter players and you can't just replace a high volume shooter with a player who doesn't shoot.

Imo, Rockets either trade the pick or get Risacher/Sheppard. I can't see them taking Castle.

[DPG21920]

They most definitely are counting on his spacing.
Sengun has no range whatsoever. Can't have another non-shoter in the starting lineup.
Amen comes off the bench and doesn't play that many minutes with Sengun.
Amen and Castle just can't share the floor.

Much like Castle and Sochan. That would be my biggest question mark with Castle.
But we're still far away and in BPA phase, even if it's not a good fit. But no way two of them would start together.



Obviously, Brooks is just a solid role player. But shooting is the most important skill on offense for perimeter players and you can't just replace a high volume shooter with a player who doesn't shoot.

Imo, Rockets either trade the pick or get Risacher/Sheppard. I can't see them taking Castle.

Sorry, when I mean “replace” I dont mean literally in this season. They will still have Brooks starting, but Castle would be drafted as a lower minutes bench guy based on future where. Brooks is traded or just let go after contract expires and Castle steps in.

Im not saying Castle is some lock, but I think ruling Castle out in HOU is just wrong personally. But ya, theres problems with him there to a degree, but Im saying he seems to fit a lot of what Ime likes in players and alongside the younger core of Green/Jabari/Sengun/Amen I think he makes some sense still especially if you are buying his 3ball coming around to Dillon Brooks level

[Mr. Body]

I don't think Jalen Green has much of a future in Houston. Never really believe in players suddenly turning out late in a season. It's fool's gold. He's always a low efficiency chucker who can't play in a team environment.

The rest is a mess of parts. At this point I think they still accumulate a good prospect without regard to fit. I don't think Amen Thompson is any real guarantee. Just take him and figure it out later.

That is, if they take him. I agree that Sheppard makes more sense.

Even more sense is trying to move with the Nets. Mikal Bridges for the #3 and Jalen Green as a basis. Can't think Brooklyn tries to stay pat with Bridges. They can't stay competitive even with him.

[scott]

There's no reason to trade up, one of Castle, Risacher, Sheppard will be there at 4. I'm fine with either one. Dilly at 8, and we're set.

This is where I am at. There are some prospects I like more than others in this draft, but none I like enough more than others to expend any assets to get. Perfectly content to see what falls to us at 4 and 8, or even look to move down a little. Anti-Trade Up Gang unite.

[DPG21920]

I’m fine trading up using cha pick or 2nds

[Knoxxx]

The draft is a crapshoot so trading down makes more sense than trading up.

It’s funny, though how somebody reaching for say castle at the number two makes you tend to want the player a little more.

[Dejounte]

The draft is a crapshoot so trading down makes more sense than trading up.

It’s funny, though how somebody reaching for say castle at the number two makes you tend to want the player a little more.

Landing Wemby made this board a little too united for my tastes.. I want the Spurs to draft Topic and Salaun just to see the world burn..

[SpursDynasty85]

Landing Wemby made this board a little too united for my tastes.. I want the Spurs to draft Topic and Salaun just to see the world burn..

I'm growing on Salaun. Despite other opinions. I think his Floor is pretty high. Easily will be a menace on the defense and the fast break right away.

[DPG21920]

Landing Wemby made this board a little too united for my tastes.. I want the Spurs to draft Topic and Salaun just to see the world burn..

I “really” want Reed/Holland/Cody but honestly this is the first draft in a long while where I dont have that strong of opinions on the draft and who we get. I just dont want a center at 4 unless it’s Sarr. But other than that Im pretty much good on what Spurs do.

[TD 21]

I don't know why people are lumping players together who don't have anything to do with each other.

The only Rocket who is comparable to Castle is Thompson.

In the end, unless their pick is traded (which seems unlikely), expect this to be Risacher's floor, with Sheppard the most likely and Clingan the dark horse.

I can't imagine Castle goes before 4, but if by some chance he does, good. It'll save these idiots (who'll be too scared to trade up) from themselves.

[exstatic]

I can absolutely see HOU taking him. He fits IME type big time and they have plenty of fire power on offense. They could absolutely use a “jrue” type on their team .

It all depends on how much of a voice he has in the draft room, because he kind of seems like the opposite of their type, smart and not overly athletic.

[DPG21920]

It all depends on how much of a voice he has in the draft room, because he kind of seems like the opposite of their type, smart and not overly athletic.

Ime is the new coach and tone setter though. Most of the guys there were pre-Ime and he brought in Brooks, FVV etc…

[DPG21920]

Ya, I don’t personally care if Castle ends up in SA or not. I see the pros, but I also am a bit more worried about him than most. If Spurs think hes the guy Im 100% cool with that and get it. But I nervous about him to a degree.

[exstatic]

Ime is the new coach and tone setter though. Most of the guys there were pre-Ime and he brought in Brooks, FVV etc…

Coaches frequently are just one voice in the draft room. Example: Doug McDermott was drafted by Chicago over the very strenuous objections of Tom Thibodeau.

[DPG21920]

Coaches frequently are just one voice in the draft room. Example: Doug McDermott was drafted by Chicago over the very strenuous objections of Tom Thibodeau.

Sure - but with the success they had and what they paid for FVV + Brooks Im assuming Ime has a reasonably sized voice…

[exstatic]

Sure - but with the success they had and what they paid for FVV + Brooks Im assuming Ime has a reasonably sized voice…

They made progress, but I’m not sure that not even making the play in is a success, and even if it is, I’m not sure what that buys Ime. The summer he was hired, three coaches with much higher success, like title success, were fired.

[scott]

As a Spurs fan, I hope Ime's voice is diminished in their draft room, since the rest of them had done nothing but build a perennial Bottom-3 team before Ime's arrival.

[scott]

Landing Wemby made this board a little too united for my tastes.. I want the Spurs to draft Topic and Salaun just to see the world burn..

How about Clingan at 4 and Jacobi Walter at 8 for an alternate "world burning" scenario?

[exstatic]

Landing Wemby made this board a little too united for my tastes.. I want the Spurs to draft Topic and Salaun just to see the world burn..

:rolleyes Yeah, we’re all just sitting around singing Kumbaya…

[Dejounte]

:rolleyes Yeah, we’re all just sitting around singing Kumbaya…

You think this is bad right now? I don’t think you remember how much worse it was before a year ago

[JuneJive]

In his case we have to zoom in on the chance that he becomes a plus shooter.

A big question mark. If the Spurs see it can get there, rhen yeah, he's a no brainer @4.

If not, he could still be useful, but with a much, much lower floor and ceiling.

[Ariel]

As time goes by, I'm thinking more and more than Houston takes Castle either for themselves or for someone who trades up. Sucks, as I wanted either Risacher/Castle at 4, and Dillingham at 8, and may not get either.:depressed

[Ariel]

Landing Wemby made this board a little too united for my tastes.. I want the Spurs to draft Topic and Salaun just to see the world burn..
If the Spurs draft Salaun I'll parade around Buenos Aires with a "Fire Brian Wright" banner.

[mo7888]

If the Spurs draft Salaun I'll parade around Buenos Aires with a "Fire Brian Wright" banner.

We require pictures...

[onechance87]

As time goes by, I'm thinking more and more than Houston takes Castle either for themselves or for someone who trades up. Sucks, as I wanted either Risacher/Castle at 4, and Dillingham at 8, and may not get either.:depressed

Then we will get reed then.He will for sure be a upgrade over branham and possibly tre jones.

[Ariel]

We require pictures...
Let's hope it doesn't come to that.

Then we will get reed then.He will for sure be a upgrade over branham and possibly tre jones.
Not as high on Sheppard as many around here, I have plenty of doubts about whether his efficiency is sustainable as his role scales up. He's an option for me at 8 but I have other priorities at 4, so if he's our choice with the first pick, that may lead to dangerous alternatives with the second one (like Salaun, who I'm hoping to avoid)

[DAF86]

Why does his shot look so much smoother here?

kNvE4RsSfcM?si=AYB2NdJWot37gicu

[Seventyniner]

As a Spurs fan, I hope Ime's voice is diminished in their draft room, since the rest of them had done nothing but build a perennial Bottom-3 team before Ime's arrival.

I think you're mixing up the causation here. The Rockets pivoted to win-now mode, including hiring Ime, because they had traded away their unprotected 2024 and 2026 picks. There was no longer a reason to tank so they stopped tanking.

If the Hawks can't pry their picks back from the Spurs I expect them to try the same thing. If they can succeed as well as Houston then those "solid gold" picks the Spurs have in the next three years could easily end up all being in the #11 to #14 range, or even lower if the Hawks can sneak into the playoffs.

[DAF86]

Also, I heard he already had a knee surgery. Worrisome, tbh.

[Kurik]

Also, I heard he already had a knee surgery. Worrisome, tbh.

I’m unsure what the procedure was but I believe he was only out like 3-4 weeks.

[rascal]

Why does his shot look so much smoother here?

kNvE4RsSfcM?si=AYB2NdJWot37gicu

Castle has tremendous upside and needs to be the pick at 4 for the Spurs.

[buttsR4rebounding]

Stop kidding yourselves, if Castle doesn't develop his shot at least to a passable level, he will have no role in the NBA going forward. There are no more Andre Robersons or Tony Allens in the league.

I agree with this caveat. This is because the league shifted rules and interpretation of rules to completely favor the offense thus exaggerating offensive advantages and minimizes defensive ones. Everything runs in cycles. The 2nd half of the season the pendulum seemed to be swinging back toward the defense. While anyone can see the offensive side of the ball still enjoys the advantage it is important to be building a team that can maximize where the league will be in 2 or 3 years when this team hopes to be competing for the LOB.

[exstatic]

I think you're mixing up the causation here. The Rockets pivoted to win-now mode, including hiring Ime, because they had traded away their unprotected 2024 and 2026 picks. There was no longer a reason to tank so they stopped tanking.

If the Hawks can't pry their picks back from the Spurs I expect them to try the same thing. If they can succeed as well as Houston then those "solid gold" picks the Spurs have in the next three years could easily end up all being in the #11 to #14 range, or even lower if the Hawks can sneak into the playoffs.

#1. The Hawks are in a MUCH worse position than Houston. They’re older, with fewer development projects, and an awful payroll that has caused them to shed talent and contracts over the past few years. If they want to jump on the treadmill for half a decade, have at it, dudes.

#2. A pick in the 11-14 range might look pretty fucking good by 2026, even if you’re a pessimist who doesn’t think one of the three will be top 4.

[Knoxxx]

I agree with this caveat. This is because the league shifted rules and interpretation of rules to completely favor the offense thus exaggerating offensive advantages and minimizes defensive ones. Everything runs in cycles. The 2nd half of the season the pendulum seemed to be swinging back toward the defense. While anyone can see the offensive side of the ball still enjoys the advantage it is important to be building a team that can maximize where the league will be in 2 or 3 years when this team hopes to be competing for the LOB.

Castle is a physical bully at the Guard position and that’s why he wants to play there. He looks like he’s one of those annoying guys that is always forcing the action at the rim and drawing fouls. All he needs is a little bit from 3, a little inside consistently and you have a strong player. I almost forgot to mention I see a little bit of Jimmy Butler in that regard.

[exstatic]

I agree with this caveat. This is because the league shifted rules and interpretation of rules to completely favor the offense thus exaggerating offensive advantages and minimizes defensive ones. Everything runs in cycles. The 2nd half of the season the pendulum seemed to be swinging back toward the defense. While anyone can see the offensive side of the ball still enjoys the advantage it is important to be building a team that can maximize where the league will be in 2 or 3 years when this team hopes to be competing for the LOB.

It’ll be interesting to see if the league issues referee guidance this summer on this experiment, indicating that it was a success, and that they’re cutting way back on foul hunting.

[Uriel]

Why does his shot look so much smoother here?

kNvE4RsSfcM?si=AYB2NdJWot37gicu
This guy really reminds me of Slo-Mo.

[BackHome]

Nah - Cody Williams now he reminds me of Slo-Mo

[KobesAchilles]

Fuck Castle and his no shooting ass. We have a team full of people who can’t shoot. Don’t draft another one. Get Sheppard and Clingan

[Mr. Body]

Fuck Castle and his no shooting ass. We have a team full of people who can’t shoot. Don’t draft another one. Get Sheppard and Clingan

Clingan can't shoot dummy.

[Ariel]

Fuck Castle and his no shooting ass. We have a team full of people who can’t shoot. Don’t draft another one. Get Sheppard and Clingan
:wtf

Don't draft non shooters, just draft the guy with the career 55.8% FT who made 2/9 3P in 2 years

[KobesAchilles]

Clingan can't shoot dummy.
Clingan is for the non-Wemby minutes defense. That’s a serious issue and it is easier to fix it with a big man who can defend rather than a PG. I didn’t go into much detail about that but in his thread I did mention it.

Reed is my shooter as far as starters go. Reed, Vassell, Monk, Sochan and Wemby to start

[T Park]

Fuck Castle and his no shooting ass. We have a team full of people who can’t shoot. Don’t draft another one. Get Sheppard and Clingan

hes 19, he could shoot before, he'll be able to shoot again.

take the good player and not the white boy who's gonna get picked on like hes at an all minority school.

[KobesAchilles]

hes 19, he could shoot before, he'll be able to shoot again.

take the good player and not the white boy who's gonna get picked on like hes at an all minority school.
I’d rather get a big man defender in the draft and get the white boy who can shoot. Surround Wemby with shooters. It isn’t rocket science. Ideally we could sign Klay but idk if we have the cap space for him or how much he will cost. But he wants money and playing time and we can offer him both. Realistically I think we could sign Monk to a contract. Heck I’d be more than fine with Derick White as well. We don’t need a guard who can’t shoot though. He has no place on the team

[Manu-of-steel]

Id rather have Derrick White!

[rascal]

Id rather have Derrick White!

You aren't getting White.

Boston is winning the title and they like him and he likes Boston. They traded Smart to open a starting spot for him.

[rascal]

I’d rather get a big man defender in the draft and get the white boy who can shoot. Surround Wemby with shooters. It isn’t rocket science. Ideally we could sign Klay but idk if we have the cap space for him or how much he will cost. But he wants money and playing time and we can offer him both. Realistically I think we could sign Monk to a contract. Heck I’d be more than fine with Derick White as well. We don’t need a guard who can’t shoot though. He has no place on the team

No, Spurs still need a perimeter defender and Castle is perfect to fill that need and his offense will be fine. I've seen clips of his shot looking good and he's strong going to the basket. Has that fire and hard work ethic and dog in him. Sheppard doesn't have it.

Improve the defense in this draft and get a couple of high potential dynamic offensive players in the deeper 25 draft, it's better for overall team construction.

[rankingtear]

Sochan C&S 3 34%
Black C&S 3 32%
Castle C&S 3 26%

Did not know it was this bad.

[Mr. Body]

Sochan C&S 3 34%
Black C&S 3 32%
Castle C&S 3 26%

Did not know it was this bad.

Someonee pointed out that if he made three more threes he'd be shooting 30.7. He's not a great shooter but it's also low volume.


His shot looks better than Black or Sochan. Less hitch, faster and more fluid.

You've got to look at who is available who can shoot and accept deficiencies everywhere.

If you draft Castle it's for the best perimeter defender in the draft, who can handle the ball and make superior decisions on the court. You then work on the shot.

That's it.

[tbdog]

https://x.com/SpursReporter/status/1802095683953922097

[rankingtear]

Someonee pointed out that if he made three more threes he'd be shooting 30.7. He's not a great shooter but it's also low volume.


His shot looks better than Black or Sochan. Less hitch, faster and more fluid.

You've got to look at who is available who can shoot and accept deficiencies everywhere.

If you draft Castle it's for the best perimeter defender in the draft, who can handle the ball and make superior decisions on the court. You then work on the shot.

That's it.

What is wrong with Castle shot.

[Pauleta14]

What is wrong with Castle shot.

I'm wondering the same tbh. The visual is far from ugly

It could just be bc of a too small sample of games in college and the fact that his role was complex and not reduced to his shooting.

There are so many instances of way worse shots that were fixed. Jrue Holiday has become an elite 3pts shooter for ex

Work ethic pays

[rankingtear]

I'm wondering the same tbh. The visual is far from ugly

It could just be bc of a too small sample of games in college and the fact that his role was complex and not reduced to his shooting.

There are so many instances of way worse shots that were fixed. Jrue Holiday has become an elite 3pts shooter for ex

Work ethic pays

He shot below 30% from 3 in HS and 7% in u18. Something must be wrong.

[onechance87]

What is wrong with Castle shot.

Hes not confident in his shot.He will be left wide open to shoot,But rather try to take it to rim
or pass it to someone else.This is why i think i rather have carter.Guy is not afraid to take big
shots and wants to punish teams for leaving him openJust a mental thing.

[sfernald]

Is this the next Fultz 2.0?

[onechance87]

Is this the next Fultz 2.0?

could be

[Pauleta14]

He shot below 30% from 3 in HS and 7% in u18. Something must be wrong.

Correlations and causations...

It could be talent, mechanics, shots selections, systems, coachings...

There are so many instances of low % in highschool and college that drastically improved at the NBA level with elite coaches and a proper developping environment.

Look at nephew, he averaged (slightly) more 3s than Castle in college for ex. Jrue Holiday was also shooting 30% with more attempts.

The low amount of 3s taken pobably had an impact. It doesn't help you build confidence

[Pauleta14]

Is this the next Fultz 2.0?


could be

He can't be, because the issue isn't his shot mechanics as it was for Fultz.

Imo THAT that might be the most challenging area to fix in a player, if not almost impossible.

I think Castle simply has a confidence issue. I don't see why it couldn't be fixed, especially in a team that relies on a system.

[Mr. Body]

And when the Spurs get shooters the fan base gets full on mad.

[Ariel]

Hes not confident in his shot.He will be left wide open to shoot,But rather try to take it to rim
or pass it to someone else.This is why i think i rather have carter.Guy is not afraid to take big
shots and wants to punish teams for leaving him openJust a mental thing.
I do have to admit this has merit, though. Mental blockage can be harder than overcome than anything else, and his reluctance to shoot early on is what drove me away from him. I eventually embraced the idea of taking him due to his performances and especially his measures (dude is almost the same size as Jaime Jaquez and Jimmy Butler) which widens his path to success, but it's definitely a concern on the back of my mind, one that I don't have with Carter, who looks fearless.

[John B]

https://youtu.be/SqaJKTjRgCQ?si=ARtEWEs3YkBoPwJo

The comp to Dejounte is interesting, defensively, operating in mid-range, doing multiple things, two-way player. But again I almost gave up on Dejounte always getting stripped in traffic, which is unlikely happening with Castle’s better finishing in traffic. Murray avoids contact, while Castle bullies and punishes smaller defenders and finishes in the rim with contact, Murray acrobatically reverse, etc (sometimes missing) to avoid contact in the rim. Defensively, I think Castle has higher ceiling specially with his massive physicality, Murray I thought gambles for steals (stat padding).

Of course Dejounte was 29th pick vs 4th or 8th pick. But if the comp is DJ, then there you go. I honestly think Castle will be much better though.

[DAF86]

He can't be, because the issue isn't his shot mechanics as it was for Fultz.

Imo THAT that might be the most challenging area to fix in a player, if not almost impossible.

I think Castle simply has a confidence issue. I don't see why it couldn't be fixed, especially in a team that relies on a system.

Castle very clearly has a mechanics issue with his shot. He shoots it from above his head, instead of shooting from his eyes.

That's good, though. It is the same mechanichs fix that Kawhi needed, hopefully the Spurs can work their magic again. Fixing a mechanichs problem is easier than fixing a mental block, tbh.

[Pauleta14]

Castle very clearly has a mechanics issue with his shot. He shoots it from above his head, instead of shooting from his eyes.

That's good, though. It is the same mechanichs fix that Kawhi needed, hopefully the Spurs can work their magic again. Fixing a mechanichs problem is easier than fixing a mental block, tbh.

To a certain degree. Fultz or even Halliburton seem impossible to fix

Then you have Shawn Marion who made a living of an absurd mechanic :lol

[DAF86]

To a certain degree. Fultz or even Halliburton seem impossible to fix

Then you have Shawn Marion who made a living of an absurd mechanic :lol

Haliburton didn't need any fixing, he's a great shooter, and Fultz definitely had/has a mental block.

[rascal]

Someonee pointed out that if he made three more threes he'd be shooting 30.7. He's not a great shooter but it's also low volume.


His shot looks better than Black or Sochan. Less hitch, faster and more fluid.

You've got to look at who is available who can shoot and accept deficiencies everywhere.

If you draft Castle it's for the best perimeter defender in the draft, who can handle the ball and make superior decisions on the court. You then work on the shot.

That's it.

He shot low volume at UCONN. He played within the team concept at UCONN and sacrificed stats to buy into a winning program.

He wasn't given a green light to just gun away like those kentucky guards.

[Jordan Jackson]

Spurs probably should avoid players with broken shots - chip is gone.

They got enough players on this roster with broken shots whose shots are still broken.

[HankChinaski]

I would happy enough with Castle as one of our picks in the top 10. He has a decent enough floor he would be an improvement on the floor than last year's options of Branham and Wesley.

Really just depends on who is left on the board after top 3 selects.

[Mr. Body]

https://youtu.be/SqaJKTjRgCQ?si=ARtEWEs3YkBoPwJo

The comp to Dejounte is interesting, defensively, operating in mid-range, doing multiple things, two-way player. But again I almost gave up on Dejounte always getting stripped in traffic, which is unlikely happening with Castle’s better finishing in traffic. Murray avoids contact, while Castle bullies and punishes smaller defenders and finishes in the rim with contact, Murray acrobatically reverse, etc (sometimes missing) to avoid contact in the rim. Defensively, I think Castle has higher ceiling specially with his massive physicality, Murray I thought gambles for steals (stat padding).

Of course Dejounte was 29th pick vs 4th or 8th pick. But if the comp is DJ, then there you go. I honestly think Castle will be much better though.

I don't think I've seen that channel. I liked that a lot. It's pretty clear I'd take Castle over anyone in this draft. He's perfect out of this draft class. All he really needs to shape up is his shooting. Even as an average shooter his upside is tremendous. We all want shooting out of the box but that's not going to happen.

The DJM comp is interesting. I disagree in certain ways, but see what he means. They play defense in different ways and use the floor differently. I also think Castle's transition into an NBA rotation is going to be pretty fast, while Murray needed to learn a lot of basketball intricacies. Castle doesn't get enough credit for not only fitting seamlessly into a college juggernaut, but arguably being their second most important player. Team was filled with guys who will make money as pro basketball players - Spencer and Newton will play somewhere, Karaban probably - and Castle was nearly as important as Clingan.

I disagree that he doesn't have an elite skill. His elite skill is defense. Who has the skills and understanding of team play that you want. I don't even care that much about his shooting. It'll improve. The only real question I have is what he envisions his future being as a guard away from one statement. I do think he recognizes that he's going to founder playing off-ball getting stuck in the corner. This doesn't mean he needs to be a 30% usage ball-dominant PG. And... I don't think that's what he means. I think he means he has a lot to offer making decisions with the ball. And he's right. The two-man game he had with Clingan was great, and here's Wembanyama.

[LeBowen]

I don't think I've seen that channel. I liked that a lot. It's pretty clear I'd take Castle over anyone in this draft. He's perfect out of this draft class. All he really needs to shape up is his shooting. Even as an average shooter his upside is tremendous. We all want shooting out of the box but that's not going to happen.

I watched all of his videos for the players Spurs could draft and he's somewhat too optimistic. For example he doesn't see Dillingham's or Topic's defense as a major concern.


Team was filled with guys who will make money as pro basketball players - Spencer and Newton will play somewhere, Karaban probably - and Castle was nearly as important as Clingan.

Reminds me of how Booker dropped all the way to 13th just because he was a 6tth man for Kentucky, with 8/12 picks ahead of him being massive busts.


I disagree that he doesn't have an elite skill. His elite skill is defense. Who has the skills and understanding of team play that you want. I don't even care that much about his shooting. It'll improve. The only real question I have is what he envisions his future being as a guard away from one statement. I do think he recognizes that he's going to founder playing off-ball getting stuck in the corner. This doesn't mean he needs to be a 30% usage ball-dominant PG. And... I don't think that's what he means. I think he means he has a lot to offer making decisions with the ball. And he's right. The two-man game he had with Clingan was great, and here's Wembanyama.

Imo, all he needs early on is a reliable pull up from FT line.
We got Wemby, there's going to be plenty of space. Reliable mid-range would go a long way.

[Mr. Body]

I watched all of his videos for the players Spurs could draft and he's somewhat too optimistic. For example he doesn't see Dillingham's or Topic's defense as a major concern.



Reminds me of how Booker dropped all the way to 13th just because he was a 6tth man for Kentucky, with 8/12 picks ahead of him being massive busts.



Imo, all he needs early on is a reliable pull up from FT line.
We got Wemby, there's going to be plenty of space. Reliable mid-range would go a long way.

I think I kind of agree that Dillingham's defensive problems are overblown, as I've also talked about elsewhere. My big questions are whether he can buy in and work hard. His instincts on that side aren't great, but I liked that he wasn't making the dead-ass dumb decisions as the season went on, that he was engaged, and that his quickness makes stuff like screens not much of a concern. It'd be great to have Castle and Dillingham who don't really get screened that well. Now, obviously RD's defense is shit, but I don't think that's the full story.

I have no real sense of Topic's defense.

Back to Castle... one thing that comes from his terrific understanding of the game and great coaching in Hurley's system is he's a fantastic cutter. He sees when defenses aren't paying attention -- when they're absorbed in what's going on elsewhere -- and that's exactly what's going to happen with Wembanyama.

[LeBowen]

Back to Castle... one thing that comes from his terrific understanding of the game and great coaching in Hurley's system is he's a fantastic cutter. He sees when defenses aren't paying attention -- when they're absorbed in what's going on elsewhere -- and that's exactly what's going to happen with Wembanyama.

To me he seems like what Sochan was supposed to be with that point guard experiment.
And I don't think Pop has given up on that type of primary ballhandler. Especially considering Wemby's rapid self-creation improvement.

I think Castle is almost a guarantee at #4 if Risacher isn't available. Outside chance for Sheppard pick, but he also probably won't be available.

[Mr. Body]

To me he seems like what Sochan was supposed to be with that point guard experiment.
And I don't think Pop has given up on that type of primary ballhandler. Especially considering Wemby's rapid self-creation improvement.

I think Castle is almost a guarantee at #4 if Risacher isn't available. Outside chance for Sheppard pick, but he also probably won't be available.

IMO Sochan just doesn't have those top guard skills. Nothing against him, but it was frustrating to me. I feel like the coaches wanted to try to 1) get Keldon into the starting lineup, so moving Sochan to the 1 sort of let this happen. We forget how this was a contentious issue going into the season. And 2) go big. Sochan-Vassell-Johnson-Wembanyama-Collins was very intriguing on paper. Just wish they didn't stick with it for so long.

IMO Sochan's big advantage is that he's much faster than most players his size. He can blow by them. The advantage he has over guards is he can post them up, which... he's not great in the post (he's okay) and you don't want those shots anyway. Then there's defense, where I don't want him defending guards all the time. I'd rather have him creating havoc close to the basket.

Castle in my mind is 100% a lead guard type or combo guard type. He's not a wing. Defensively things will be great. Wemby as the Cthulhian thing of majestic dread, Sochan and Castle both very solid on their ends. Castle has the on-ball capabilities that Sochan didn't, and they both cut and move pretty well.

[heyheymymy]

Wemby as the Cthulhian thing of majestic dread

poetry

:bobo

[LeBowen]

IMO Sochan just doesn't have those top guard skills. Nothing against him, but it was frustrating to me. I feel like the coaches wanted to try to 1) get Keldon into the starting lineup, so moving Sochan to the 1 sort of let this happen. We forget how this was a contentious issue going into the season. And 2) go big. Sochan-Vassell-Johnson-Wembanyama-Collins was very intriguing on paper. Just wish they didn't stick with it for so long.

IMO Sochan's big advantage is that he's much faster than most players his size. He can blow by them. The advantage he has over guards is he can post them up, which... he's not great in the post (he's okay) and you don't want those shots anyway. Then there's defense, where I don't want him defending guards all the time. I'd rather have him creating havoc close to the basket.

Obviously. But Pop thought he might develop them. Didn't happen. Might happen some years down the line, who knows.
Castle is a few inches shorter, but the ideal version of what Sochan should've become.
Jeremy was put in an unfair position. When he was starting at point, Collins was also in the lineup.
Less spacing on offense and way worse defensive mobility. Can't expect a forward to chase around elite guards when the rest of the team except Wemby is awful defensively.

I feel like starting the season as a 6th man (assuming Keldon is gone) would be good for him. Less pressure and his current, limited skillset is better suited for playing against bench lineups.


Castle in my mind is 100% a lead guard type or combo guard type. He's not a wing. Defensively things will be great. Wemby as the Cthulhian thing of majestic dread, Sochan and Castle both very solid on their ends. Castle has the on-ball capabilities that Sochan didn't, and they both cut and move pretty well.

He's a lead guard, but I don't see how would a lineup with both of them and their current shooting capabilities work.
Going a bit off-topic here, but if Castle is the pick and Dillingham isn't #8, I'd make Monk a priority in FA.
Castle-Vassell-Monk three man guard rotation looks nice. All of them are interchangeable. Branham takes remaining minutes.
Can't really see Tre and Castle playing together.
Package Tre and Keldon for a wing. Draft another wing with #8. And get another veteran wing for cheap.
Castle-Devin-trade-veteran-Wemby
Monk-Branham-rookie-Jeremy-backup seems like a decent rotation.
Markkanen being that trade target would be ideal.

[ginobilized]

Castle is definitely my choice at 4 and has been for some time.
I see PATFO looking him as what they had hoped Primo might become. Of course, Castle is a much better player than the participle dangler of a few years back.

[John B]

Castle is definitely my choice at 4 and has been for some time.
I see PATFO looking him as what they had hoped Primo might become. Of course, Castle is a much better player than the participle dangler of a few years back.

This. Primo was going to be a bigger defensive PG which is who Castle could be. Already Castle will be the best defensive guard we have, him and Wesley, but with Castle’s physical frame, I’ll give the edge to Castle.

I think Castle at 4th and BPA at 8th, Dilly, Holland, Buzelis, or even a big swing at Salaun. Dilly could be great too either a combo guard or a 6th man. I’d package Tre, Keldon and future FRP’s for Markkanen.

[TD 21]

Sochan C&S 3 34%
Black C&S 3 32%
Castle C&S 3 26%

Did not know it was this bad.

Who cares? He can "short-roll" play make and cut (tertiary skills are always a great reason to select someone at 4, especially when you don't have the personnel to maximize them) and the Spurs will spray magic pixie dust and fix his shot, like they've done with a whole 1-2 players 1-2 decades ago.



He's a lead guard, but I don't see how would a lineup with both of them and their current shooting capabilities work.

Can't really see Tre and Castle playing together.

I brought this up weeks ago when it became apparent he was the target at 4: What I suspect we'll see is a Brogdon trade (Hornets 1st, Graham, Bassey, Wesley?) and a starting five of Sochan, Vassell, Wembanyama, Castle, Brogdon.

Brogdon would be the nominal PG, but really every starter would have some creative responsibilities, with increased switch ability.

Castle is an even worse shooter than Jones, but it's not like anyone guards him anyway, while Brogdon would upgrade Champagnie's shooting.

[LeBowen]

I brought this up weeks ago when it became apparent he was the target at 4: What I suspect we'll see is a Brogdon trade (Hornets 1st, Graham, Bassey, Wesley?) and a starting five of Sochan, Vassell, Wembanyama, Castle, Brogdon.

Brogdon would be the nominal PG, but really every starter would have some creative responsibilities, with increased switch ability.

Castle is an even worse shooter than Jones, but it's not like anyone guards him anyway, while Brogdon would upgrade Champagnie's shooting.

Brogdon seems like a perfect cheap veteran to get, but then you look past his solid stats.
He hasn't been healthy for three years and there were several reports of his teammates not really liking him.

Castle and Sochan wouldn't be able to play together with their current shooting capabilities, no way.

If we get Castle, Markkanen is the ideal forward. Absolute must get priority if he's to be traded. I don't care about the asking price.
Then a few years down the leine, when Castle and Jeremy develop their shots, something like Castle-Devin-Jeremy-Markkanen-Wemby looks scary.

Insert another wing if Jeremy doesn't develop. Maybe even our #8 pick or '25 pick, you get the point.

[rascal]

Brogdon seems like a perfect cheap veteran to get, but then you look past his solid stats.
He hasn't been healthy for three years and there were several reports of his teammates not really liking him.

Castle and Sochan wouldn't be able to play together with their current shooting capabilities, no way.

If we get Castle, Markkanen is the ideal forward. Absolute must get priority if he's to be traded. I don't care about the asking price.
Then a few years down the leine, when Castle and Jeremy develop their shots, something like Castle-Devin-Jeremy-Markkanen-Wemby looks scary.

Insert another wing if Jeremy doesn't develop. Maybe even our #8 pick or '25 pick, you get the point.

So no draft picks in 2025 that will work out?

After next year's draft Castle- Devin- 25 draft pick-25 draft pick- Wemby
Hoping to get two starters out of next year's draft and move Sochan to the bench.

[SpursBills]

Castle is a way bigger gamble than most people would like to admit. I think he's a gamble worth taking, but based on historical comps, he's got a less than 1 in 5 chance of developing into a "good" shooter, and a 1 in 3 chance of being a "league average" shooter. If you're taking him at 4, it's probably unnecessarily risky to try and take raw questionable shooting at 8 like Holland, Buzelis, Salaun, Cody Williams, basically all the raw wings in this draft that I'm personally very low on. I'd try and turn #8 and #35 into McCain and Tyler Smith with a little bit of maneuvering, trading up, trading down, and packaging with second rounders.

McCain at worst is probably a bench shooter but could develop into way more than that. Play him with Castle initially to provide him with the spacing that he needs to develop his lead guard skills. He's basically diet Reed Sheppard but stronger, less good, and with less on-ball potential. His creation is probably masked currently but he can help playmake a little bit, optimistically he turns into CJ McCollum and provides off the dribble spacing and offensive output for a defensive team, and at worst in a few years once the team gets more talent he turns into a valuable bench shooter like Patty Mills, except he's a 200+ lb strong guard who can also rebound and get to the rim so he's inherently way more valuable.

Tyler Smith is a swing, but you try and get him in the late first hoping he turns into diet-Markannen or maybe middle-class Naz Reid, as he's big, can shoot, was the best player for Ignite, and despite his horrible looking tape has the best defensive metrics among all the Ignite prospects. He's also an underrated rebounder and he's young and reasonably athletic, so he's not just some Matt Bonner-type. This way even though Castle's a huge risk, at least you can mitigate some of his worst deficiencies in the high likelihood that he never develops into more than a league-average shooter.

[LeBowen]

So no draft picks in 2025 that will work out?

After next year's draft Castle- Devin- 25 draft pick-25 draft pick- Wemby
Hoping to get two starters out of next year's draft and move Sochan to the bench.

Should I have written it differently?
I was trying to say that maybe we'll get a forward we need in this or the next draft.

But I don't think that fully relying on the draft is a good idea. We need to get a proven all-star that fits next to Wemby with some of those picks.

[TD 21]

Brogdon seems like a perfect cheap veteran to get, but then you look past his solid stats.
He hasn't been healthy for three years and there were several reports of his teammates not really liking him.

Castle and Sochan wouldn't be able to play together with their current shooting capabilities, no way.

If we get Castle, Markkanen is the ideal forward. Absolute must get priority if he's to be traded. I don't care about the asking price.
Then a few years down the leine, when Castle and Jeremy develop their shots, something like Castle-Devin-Jeremy-Markkanen-Wemby looks scary.

Insert another wing if Jeremy doesn't develop. Maybe even our #8 pick or '25 pick, you get the point.

I don't think they'll really care that he's likely only good for 50ish games (it is a contract year though) because they'll probably want to give the impression that they're trying to be pseudo competitive more so than legitimately trying to . . . otherwise they'd aim higher to begin with.

I haven't heard anything that would be an obvious red flag by their rigid standards and he looks/sounds the part of a Spurs stereotype, which will probably be enough for them (the same way it was Samanic despite the red flags).

Again, spacing wise what's the difference between Jones and Castle? And why would playing those two together off the bench be any better (we both know Sochan isn't moving to the bench)? At that point, Castle would really have to play off ball.

I doubt Markkanen becomes available and if he does, I doubt even more that they'd blow their load on a non ball handler/play maker.

[LeBowen]

Again, spacing wise what's the difference between Jones and Castle?

Tre isn't good enough of a shooter for point guard position, but at least he developed a somewhat reliable corner three as the season went on.
While he's a great guy, I'm not that high on him and I don't think he should be in long-term plans.
Obviously, who am I to say what should happen, it's just my preference.
My preference would also be having a three-level scoring 6th man to change it up a bit from the starting lineup. That's why I mentioned Monk. And I'd be happy with Dillingham at #8. Would give us more options.


we both know Sochan isn't moving to the bench

Do we? Noone should be above the bench if they're not good enough or aren't a good enough of a fit next to Wemby.
Which Jeremy isn't as of now.


I doubt Markkanen becomes available and if he does, I doubt even more that they'd blow their load on a non ball handler/play maker.

He'll definitely be available if Jazz decides to tank. He voiced his discontent with being shut down for the second season in a row and said he won't accept it again.
He won't sign that extension if they don't make some moves to actually compete.

He's a perfect offensive weapon next to Wemby. 40% from deep at 8 attempts, easily punishes mismatches in mid-post and is a solid enough of a defender/rebounder.
Him and Wemby together would be a cheat code.

Castle would be an ideal point guard for Wemby if he can develop his scoring to DJ's level while being an elite POA defender.
I'm going into whataboutism again, but it all seems so right to me.
Castle as DJ 2.0.
Devin as a bit shorter, but a bit more athletic Middleton.
All-round wing that can also shoot. Let's say if Cody Williams becomes a taller version of his brother.
Markkanen
Wemby

That's an ideal team to build around Wemby, imo.

[TD 21]

Tre isn't good enough of a shooter for point guard position, but at least he developed a somewhat reliable corner three as the season went on.

Do we? Noone should be above the bench if they're not good enough or aren't a good enough of a fit next to Wemby.
Which Jeremy isn't as of now.



He'll definitely be available if Jazz decides to tank. He voiced his discontent with being shut down for the second season in a row and said he won't accept it again.
He won't sign that extension if they don't make some moves to actually compete.

He's a perfect offensive weapon next to Wemby. 40% from deep at 8 attempts, easily punishes mismatches in mid-post and is a solid enough of a defender/rebounder.
Him and Wemby together would be a cheat code.

Castle would be an ideal point guard for Wemby if he can develop his scoring to DJ's level while being an elite POA defender.
All-round wing that can also shoot. Let's say if Cody Williams becomes a taller version of his brother.
Wemby

That's an ideal team to build around Wemby, imo.

Maybe (he'll have to prove it next season, on increased volume), but no one guards him all the same so spacing wise nothing will change from him to Castle.

We do. I agree, I'm just saying they clearly think Sochan has starter upside and have bigger fish to fry in terms of making sure Jones and Champagnie aren't starters next season.

Ainge surprisingly declared them looking to compete though.

I'm not debating Markkanen's fit, just saying he'll cost a lot and if they're going to expend that, I have a hard time believing it'll be for a minus defending, non ball handler/play maker.

Even making a quantum leap of faith with Castle and Williams, that lineup still doesn't have enough ball handling/play making.

[Mr. Body]

This is why you also get Dillingham, the best advantage creator in the draft, who is at worse the second best shooter, the third best playmaker, and best ball-handler by a wide margin.

[AFBlue]

I prefer Sheppard for the shooting advantage, but I wouldn't be mad with Castle at 4 because of his positional versatility and floor as a defender. Seems like he has a legit shot to realize his offensive potential as well.

[PhantomDashCam]

Castle is a way bigger gamble than most people would like to admit. I think he's a gamble worth taking, but based on historical comps, he's got a less than 1 in 5 chance of developing into a "good" shooter, and a 1 in 3 chance of being a "league average" shooter. If you're taking him at 4, it's probably unnecessarily risky to try and take raw questionable shooting at 8 like Holland, Buzelis, Salaun, Cody Williams, basically all the raw wings in this draft that I'm personally very low on. I'd try and turn #8 and #35 into McCain and Tyler Smith with a little bit of maneuvering, trading up, trading down, and packaging with second rounders.

McCain at worst is probably a bench shooter but could develop into way more than that. Play him with Castle initially to provide him with the spacing that he needs to develop his lead guard skills. He's basically diet Reed Sheppard but stronger, less good, and with less on-ball potential. His creation is probably masked currently but he can help playmake a little bit, optimistically he turns into CJ McCollum and provides off the dribble spacing and offensive output for a defensive team, and at worst in a few years once the team gets more talent he turns into a valuable bench shooter like Patty Mills, except he's a 200+ lb strong guard who can also rebound and get to the rim so he's inherently way more valuable.

Tyler Smith is a swing, but you try and get him in the late first hoping he turns into diet-Markannen or maybe middle-class Naz Reid, as he's big, can shoot, was the best player for Ignite, and despite his horrible looking tape has the best defensive metrics among all the Ignite prospects. He's also an underrated rebounder and he's young and reasonably athletic, so he's not just some Matt Bonner-type. This way even though Castle's a huge risk, at least you can mitigate some of his worst deficiencies in the high likelihood that he never develops into more than a league-average shooter.

I don't think the Spurs will have any interest in McCain honestly due to his social media presence. He is apparently a tik-tok machine.
It supposedly has not not influenced his play one iota, but I'd be dubious about this in the pros.

Smith is an interesting prospect but I'm not sure of his position at the next level.

[Ariel]

Castle is a way bigger gamble than most people would like to admit. I think he's a gamble worth taking, but based on historical comps, he's got a less than 1 in 5 chance of developing into a "good" shooter, and a 1 in 3 chance of being a "league average" shooter. If you're taking him at 4, it's probably unnecessarily risky to try and take raw questionable shooting at 8 like Holland, Buzelis, Salaun, Cody Williams, basically all the raw wings in this draft that I'm personally very low on. I'd try and turn #8 and #35 into McCain and Tyler Smith with a little bit of maneuvering, trading up, trading down, and packaging with second rounders.

McCain at worst is probably a bench shooter but could develop into way more than that. Play him with Castle initially to provide him with the spacing that he needs to develop his lead guard skills. He's basically diet Reed Sheppard but stronger, less good, and with less on-ball potential. His creation is probably masked currently but he can help playmake a little bit, optimistically he turns into CJ McCollum and provides off the dribble spacing and offensive output for a defensive team, and at worst in a few years once the team gets more talent he turns into a valuable bench shooter like Patty Mills, except he's a 200+ lb strong guard who can also rebound and get to the rim so he's inherently way more valuable.

Tyler Smith is a swing, but you try and get him in the late first hoping he turns into diet-Markannen or maybe middle-class Naz Reid, as he's big, can shoot, was the best player for Ignite, and despite his horrible looking tape has the best defensive metrics among all the Ignite prospects. He's also an underrated rebounder and he's young and reasonably athletic, so he's not just some Matt Bonner-type. This way even though Castle's a huge risk, at least you can mitigate some of his worst deficiencies in the high likelihood that he never develops into more than a league-average shooter.
Fair post. I trust Castle's shooting upside a bit more espacially because he's a good FT shooter and he's got touch, but it's true he's unlikely to ever become more than a league average shooter, if that. However, if he does, he's got everything else already in place, so you found yourself a core piece for a contending team. And yes, I agree that if you take him, you can't take more non shooting risks with the other pick.
As for McCain and Tyler Smith, they're very sensible trade back options, they have their own fair share of question marks but shooting isn't one of them, and that's already a step in the right direction. Personally I like Tyler Smith better than Salaun as a swing for a stretch 4. Other swings I'd consider in the late first round are Pacome Dadiet and Cam Christie, both young and talented with shooting potential. All things considered, these guys all have probably a more favorable risk/reward ratio than the ones at the top.

[Mr. Body]

I don't think the Spurs will have any interest in McCain honestly due to his social media presence. He is apparently a tik-tok machine.
It supposedly has not not influenced his play one iota, but I'd be dubious about this in the pros.

Smith is an interesting prospect but I'm not sure of his position at the next level.

Dillingham has a large internet presence, as does Sochan. I don't think it matters to the team as much so long as they're on the wholesome side rather than Dejounte throwing money at strippers. McCain is known to be very personable.

[Ariel]

I don't think the Spurs will have any interest in McCain honestly due to his social media presence. He is apparently a tik-tok machine.
It supposedly has not not influenced his play one iota, but I'd be dubious about this in the pros.

Smith is an interesting prospect but I'm not sure of his position at the next level.
It would take some nerve to argue against drafting some teenager because he's got an active TikTok account, after raving about a "high character" prospect who ended up a serial sexual offender.

[rankingtear]

I guess a lot of you guys are optimistic about his shot because he can do unrelated things. I am just looking at C&S numbers and there is just a huge gap between him and other bad shooters in recent drafts.

[Mr. Body]

I guess a lot of you guys are optimistic about his shot because he can do unrelated things. I am just looking at C&S numbers and there is just a huge gap between him and other bad shooters in recent drafts.

Yeah, you should check out the twins from last year.

[rankingtear]

Yeah, you should check out the twins from last year.

Amen C&S 3 28%
Ausar C&S 3 31%

[Mr. Body]

Amen C&S 3 28%
Ausar C&S 3 31%

Bro what the fuck you talking about they shot .138 and .186 from three.

[rankingtear]

Bro what the fuck you talking about they shot .138 and .186 from three.

OTE

[exstatic]

OTE

Thats like open gym. OTE is fucking trash, and should not be comped with a top level NCAA program.

[rankingtear]

Thats like open gym. OTE is fucking trash, and should not be comped with a top level NCAA program.

That is why I did not include them.

[exstatic]

That is why I did not include them. You are the one who asked.

If you can’t tell Mr. Body’s avi from mine, I can’t help you.

[rankingtear]

If you can’t tell Mr. Body’s avi from mine, I can’t help you.

Sorry.

[rankingtear]

I am just showing the numbers. But if the shot is a multi-year thing then you got 2 of your best prospects outside of the "untouchables" eating each others development.

[heyheymymy]

If you can’t tell Mr. Body’s avi from mine, I can’t help you.

both movies are total classics

[DAF86]

This video randomly appeared on my algorithm. After watching it I suspect it popped up because I was watching too many Stephon Castle videos. Youtube is trying to tell us something. :lol

haLd-JlrNrU?si=cEm6U10a0J7Nq_VQ

I remember the hard-on Spurstalk had for this guy. "We can work on his shot". ST sounds like those girls that think they can transform a women beater. "I will make him change" :lol

[scottspurs]

Castle worked out for San Antonio against Devin Carter last week according to ESPN on their latest mock draft. Interesting as it seems the spurs highly value these workouts.

[Dejounte]

Castle worked out for San Antonio against Devin Carter last week according to ESPN on their latest mock draft. Interesting as it seems the spurs highly value these workouts.

The Spurs had Branham go against Wesley in their draft. It was reported that they picked these two because of how hard they went at each other. They’re probably going to put a big emphasis on that. This is where Buzelis would have an edge if they brought him in since he likes to go against other prospects to show he’s better.

[scottspurs]

The Spurs had Branham go against Wesley in their draft. It was reported that they picked these two because of how hard they went at each other. They’re probably going to put a big emphasis on that. This is where Buzelis would have an edge if they brought him in since he likes to go against other prospects to show he’s better.

Could we possibly have Risacher vs Buzelis on Friday?! That is when Risacher is confirmed to workout for the Spurs

[rankingtear]

Castle worked out for San Antonio against Devin Carter last week according to ESPN on their latest mock draft. Interesting as it seems the spurs highly value these workouts.

Interesting, Carter is said to be destroying the workouts and had a great workout in SA. Castle also worked out for a team with a PG in CHA, is it before and after the SA workout.

[Seventyniner]

The Spurs had Branham go against Wesley in their draft. It was reported that they picked these two because of how hard they went at each other. They’re probably going to put a big emphasis on that. This is where Buzelis would have an edge if they brought him in since he likes to go against other prospects to show he’s better.

Unfortunately for Branham and Wesley, that "got that dog in him" quality hasn't translated to on-court success.

[DAF86]

Unfortunately for Branham and Wesley, that "got that dog in him" quality hasn't translated to on-court success.

If the Spurs trully put more emphasis on small sample size workouts instead of months of evidence, they are fucking up, tbh.

[Uriel]

If the Spurs trully put more emphasis on small sample size workouts instead of months of evidence, they are fucking up, tbh.
Completely agree with this. Just as players’ performance can fluctuate from game to game, so can players’ performance fluctuate from workout to workout. Remember that the Spurs almost didn’t draft Tony Parker because of a bad workout and RC had to beg Pop to give him another chance.

Workouts are, of course, an invaluable tool for evaluating prospects. But there’s a lot of variance in how well players perform in them, and they should be treated as just one data point among many, as opposed to the primary determinant of draftability.

[dbestpro]

If he is there at 4, I believe the Spurs will select him. A PG who is close to 6-7, can play defense at a high level, has great fundamentals, and a good BB IQ makes him the top pick on the Spurs board when number 4 comes around even if Sheppard is still available. Add 6-8 Cody Williams at pick 8 and you have a defensive unit of Wemby, Sochan, Williams, Vassell, and Castle. With maturity, it could be an awesome unit.

[DAF86]

If he is there at 4, I believe the Spurs will select him. A PG who is close to 6-7, can play defense at a high level, has great fundamentals, and a good BB IQ makes him the top pick on the Spurs board when number 4 comes around even if Sheppard is still available. Add 6-8 Cody Williams at pick 8 and you have a defensive unit of Wemby, Sochan, Williams, Vassell, and Castle. With maturity, it could be an awesome unit.

What you have with that lineup is the worst team in the NBA, tbh. Poor Vic would get quintuple teamed. :lol

[BatManu20]

What you have with that lineup is the worst team in the NBA, tbh. Poor Vic would get quintuple teamed. :lol

You ain't lying. The spacing in that lineup would be legit horrendous.

[Mr. Body]

Castle has worked out for Charlotte.

[LeBowen]

You ain't lying. The spacing in that lineup would be legit horrendous.

Castle seems like the most reasonable pick at #4, but I most definitely don't want him and Jeremy playing together as long as they're non-shooters.
If we get rid of Keldon, Jeremy would be a perfect sixth man.

I'd like someone to enlighten me, but I just don't see a functional lineup with both Castle and Jeremy. Just doesn't work.

[Ariel]

Castle has worked out for Charlotte.
Hmmm... interesting. Maybe it's an indication he isn't so confident in landing in his preferred spots?

[BatManu20]

Castle seems like the most reasonable pick at #4, but I most definitely don't want him and Jeremy playing together as long as they're non-shooters.
If we get rid of Keldon, Jeremy would be a perfect sixth man.

I'd like someone to enlighten me, but I just don't see a functional lineup with both Castle and Jeremy. Just doesn't work.

I've always sort of envisioned Sochan as a future 6th Man too tbh. If we can draft a bigger and better PF or land one in Free Agency (Markannen please), I think Jeremy would thrive in that role as he continues to improve.