How We Failed Wemby (and How We Can Fix It)

[scott]

Posted this in the Blazer's game thread - but thought I'd start it own thread.

When we drafted Wemby, myself and a few others wanted us to make moves to improve the team, rather than the "see what we have" route we took that either was a soft tank, or a hard tank, or an unintentional tank, or whatever it was.

I recall after we won the lottery I was advocating for us to get "Wemby's version of Terry Cummings". Some of you might be too young, but before David Robinson's rookie year, the Spurs went out and traded a pair of young, promising players (5-year player, 3-time all star Alvin Robertson and 2 Year Vet, ROY Runner Up Cadillac Anderson) for All NBA 3rd Teamer Terry Cummings. The team around DRob his rookie year was probably the best team around him in his pre-Duncan career.

Yes, David Robinson was in a different place as a rookie that Wemby was, but my desire for a TC for Wemby wasn't about trying to make a playoff push and compete now... it was around providing mentorship and leadership for Wemby and set an example of how to be a star on the court, as well as being a professional off the court. Instead, your most experienced Vet to start the season was Doug McDermott and the most experienced vet to end the season was Cedi Osman. The roster featured no players who had ever made an All-Star game.

We've corrected that somewhat this year by adding CP3, but while he may provide some on-the-court teaching and some off-the-court mentorship, he's just past the point of his career to provide the example of high level winning basketball on the court. Much is said about CP3's mentorship of SGA, but CP3 was also an All Star, All NBA 2nd team, 7th in the MVP vote the year he was mentoring SGA. Wemby doesn't have that.

Every Spurs great in the modern era has had a high level player around them their rookie year.



Terry Cummings stats DRob's rookie year: 22.4 ppg, 8.4 rpg. TC was an All Star and All NBA third-teamer the year before
David Robinson stats Timmy's rookie year: 21.6 ppg, 10.6 rpg, 2.6 bpg. 7th in MVP voting, 3rd in DPOY voting, All Star, All NBA Second Team.
Tim Duncan stats during Tony's rookie year: 25.5 ppg, 12.7 rpg, 2.5 bpg, NBA MVP, All Star. All NBA First Team.
Tim Duncan stats during Manu's rookie year: 23.3 ppg, 12.9 rpg, 2.9 bpg, NBA MVP, All Star, All NBA First Team, 4th in DPOY voting
Tim Duncan stats during Nephew's rookie year: 15.4 ppg, 9.0 rpg, 1.5 bpg, 14th in MVP voting
Tony Parker stats during Nephew's rookie year: 18.3 ppg, 7.7 apg, 5th in MVP voting, All Star, All NBA Second Team
Manu Ginobili stats during Nephew's rookie year: 12.9 ppg, 4.4 apg, 3.4 rpg, 5th in 6MOY voting. Previous season: 8th in MVP voting, All Star, All NBA 3rd Team


It's obviously too late to go back and time and add this player in Wemby's rookie year... but we can do that now... but it will be costly, and I'm not entirely sure what a feasible target even is. I think instead of getting that one mentor, I think we can make a few moves to add high level professionals to the team. CP3 and Barnes stand out as high BBIQ players who raise our level because the rest of our guys don't know how to play basketball, and it is hurting our team and the development of our franchise superstar. CP3 and Barnes were good pick ups, they just aren't enough. We need at least two more professionals like them, preferably at least one who performs at a higher level of play (or has recently) and knows how to win like those guys.

Yes, the season is young... but we can't go the entire season like this... it will be too costly on Wemby. Let's pull the plug on the "see what we have", Take It In the Pooper for Cooper strategy, before our franchise player fully regresses into a low efficiency chucker.

[Chinook]

Wemby's fine, Scott. He's doing exactly what a 20-year-old blue chip is supposed to do. Nothing good comes from comparing him to older rookies or guys who were low options starting out. Maybe the right star would work out, but many would just exacerbate the growing pains he's having.

[HemisfairArena]

How you failed Wemby?,,,,Popabitch. Wemby said he wants to compete for titles right out of the gate,,,,,Popabitch couldnt provide and its just a matter of time before Wemby leaves after his rookie contract. Who would stick around for this shitshow and Popabitch's liberal bullshit?,,,,

[scott]

Wemby's fine, Scott. He's doing exactly what a 20-year-old blue chip is supposed to do. Nothing good comes from comparing him to older rookies or guys who were low options starting out. Maybe the right star would work out, but many would just exacerbate the growing pains he's having.

Wemby is not "fine"

What other 20-year old blue chip prospects regressed their second season?

Here are some 20-year old blue chip prospects in their second seasons:

Lebron: +8.8 ppg, +1.3 apg, +1.9 rpg, +0.066 TS%
KD: +5.0 ppg, +0.4 apg, +2.1 rpg, +0.058 TS%
Luka: +7.6 ppg, +2.8 apg, +1.5 rpg, +0.040 TS%
Ant: +2.0 ppg, +0.9 apg, +0.1 rpg, +0.37 TS%
Wemby: -3.0 ppg, -1.1 apg. -0.8 rpg, +0.2 bpg, -0.035 TS%

We should go back and let those other guys know they were "supposed" to regress their second years when they were 20.

[scott]

Just the classic second year regression that all great players go through, just be patient! :lol

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/h6FY-5Y3GEk/maxresdefault.jpg

[Vince Carter's ankle]

Wemby said he wants to compete for titles right out of the gate
https://sun9-50.userapi.com/impg/25PZFmcAVYNVYCysChtYtRu30lcc0Oqgn4ZjFQ/jFCARml4WgU.jpg?size=540x570&quality=96&sign=f75b200974b2e1d39a9659628f70e59f&type=album

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Nobody has failed Wemby. If anyone is failing it’s him for not being patient enough on offense and not being able to punish mismatches. That said, he’ll be fine. He started last season in the same way and got better, which I expect to happen again.

Also, having 3 of the top 7 rotation guys injured doesn’t help.

[barakz21]

I think it’s a lot of things, to creat the perfect storm of why Wemby is where he is right now. Last year, nobody knows how to play against him, so he had that advantage, wherein his physical tools were enough to get on by. Now, the league kinda knows him a bit now that those tools won’t be enough and his deficiencies ie lack of muscle is more glaring. You have an injured Vassell who probably was the team’s best self creator last year, his absence definitely makes it easier for teams to key in on him. Speaking of teams keying in on him, we have no consistent shooters. Sure, we have guys who can shoot but not consistently enough, and even then too few of those guys to keep teams from sagging on him. Lastly, I’m not sure how to say this but Wemby’s body language is terrible. And not terrible like he’s pouting or is a malcontent. But clearly, he’s not doing the little things that he was doing last year. Things like running the break hard, getting back on D in a timely manner, being “lazy”. Only thing I can think of is, he’s tired. Which kinda doesn’t make sense, since he’s only 20 and it’s still early on in the season. I hope that that is the case, and that much like last year it’s just him starting slow (although he does look worse than he last year).

[RC_Drunkford]

Wemby has failed himself not coming into the season in shape. He's gassed after every 5 minute stint. The guy literally can't play longer than 5 minutes and that's with time outs in between.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Wemby has failed himself not coming into the season in shape. He's gassed after every 5 minute stint. The guy literally can't play longer than 5 minutes and that's with time outs in between.

I agree. This has been very obvious and it could be part of why he’s jacking up threes so often. It was an issue for him at the start of last season as well.

[playbonner15]

See how Ayton played today vs Spurs. i thought that's how Wemby will be offensively, (baby hooks, lobs, occasional 3) but then Wemby's much better defensively. If the 20yr old kid is not the focus of offense then his chucking's not really a problem. It's like Duncan's later years when the whole team scores, they still win

[ambchang]

Wemby failed wemby by playing street ball.

[SupremeGuy]

Wemby's 3s are concerning tbh.

Last year, I kind of got it. But now? He's not hitting at a high enough percentage to be taking that many.

Being gassed as well. I dunno, doesn't look like he's trying to catch up and get some potential blocks on fastbreaks.

Can we get Hakeen or Lew to show him some hook shots?

The team does have some shitty spacing too. I don't remember Tim being nearly as surrounded as Wemby for his bank shots.

[Dejounte]

Yeah Wemby’s playing a completely different style than the one where he was dominating towards the second half of last season.

[exstatic]

Just the classic second year regression that all great players go through, just be patient! :lol

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/h6FY-5Y3GEk/maxresdefault.jpg

Well, you might want to wait until the second year is over, and you have a full year’s stats. Right now, we’re at 11%.

[Pauleta14]

Wemby NEEDS to ask for a trade ASAP

We were right last season, this is the worst organisation and roste for him by far

Sad as a Spurs fan but they're killing the kid using him as a decoy or role player setting up screens

Mitch's making it worse

[skin27]

Wemby's 3s are concerning tbh.

Last year, I kind of got it. But now? He's not hitting at a high enough percentage to be taking that many.

Being gassed as well. I dunno, doesn't look like he's trying to catch up and get some potential blocks on fastbreaks.

Can we get Hakeen or Lew to show him some hook shots?

The team does have some shitty spacing too. I don't remember Tim being nearly as surrounded as Wemby for his bank shots.
Its just the same the inly difference was timmy has high BBIQ,post moves and always play in the post.

[Pauleta14]

Yeah Wemby’s playing a completely different style than the one where he was dominating towards the second half of last season.

He's just not being used taday the way he was then.

Mitch seems more interested in developping Brahman Wesley and KD. It's a choice...

[LeBowen]

I keep going back and forth on this...noone should be absolved of their part of the blame.
Coaching has been subpar, spacing is disgustingly bad, most of the roster still can't get the ball to Wemby, but he's also looked poor in most situations.

First off, I don't buy into those low effort arguments because every single NBA player prefers being active on offense.
Wemby's defense has been beyond ridiculous and anyone who doesn't see it is a blind hater. He's at 3.7 blocks per game with opponents regularly it passing out because they don't even bother to challenge him.
He didn't have a single game with more than one or two bad possessions. He's easily on GOAT defender trajectory.
If he shows effort on defense, there's no reason for him to not show it on offense.

To me it just looks like he's straight up lost and doesn't know what to do because he lost confidence.
That's where coaching staff should come in.
Instead they told him to jack it up from deep at will. I don't think Wemby is a player who'd do it against coaching staff's wishes.
It's obviously not working and he's doubling down, starts shooting until he makes some.

But the biggest issue for me are his handles. They're obviously great for someone of his stature, but he's still a 7'4 player and the ball simply has to go high while he's dribbling.
Everyone figured it out and it's really easy for good defenders to force turnovers. I don't think Wemby should be handling the ball on the perimeter unless it's an iso against slow bigs.
There's no advantage to be had against wings or guards, he's not beating them off the dribble.

If we're talking post-ups, he lacks strength and again everyone figured it out.
Some are saying we should bring LMA to coach him, but much like LMA wouldn't be able to handle it like Wemby, Wemby can't use LMA's moves with his current physical tools.
Every time he tries to go up for a fadeaway he gets bumped and pushed off the balance. Same thing happens when he tries to put it down on the floor and attack the basket.
Unless he's really deep and long enough to lay it in, he loses balance and can't get to the basket.
What coaching staff should work on is his face-up game around the post.
Get Timmy in and work on those jumpers close to the paint. With his touch (31-34 FT so far) it should be automatic.

But for every Wemby's flaw, the team is o much worse.
Just rewatch last night's game. At least 5 situations where they can just throw it high while he's got the defender somewhat sealed in the paint, but they don't...then Wemby just goes back to the corner and is out of possession completely.

Lastly, Olympics obviously messed with his preparation and he looks like we're 60 games into the season. Completely gassed after 7 minutes.

Overall, as long as his defense is on current level, there should be no alarms, it should be on coaching staff to figure out how to get him more easy points because he's obviously showing effort, even though it sometimes doesn't look like it.

[Chinook]

Wemby is not "fine"

What other 20-year old blue chip prospects regressed their second season?

Here are some 20-year old blue chip prospects in their second seasons:

Lebron: +8.8 ppg, +1.3 apg, +1.9 rpg, +0.066 TS%
KD: +5.0 ppg, +0.4 apg, +2.1 rpg, +0.058 TS%
Luka: +7.6 ppg, +2.8 apg, +1.5 rpg, +0.040 TS%
Ant: +2.0 ppg, +0.9 apg, +0.1 rpg, +0.37 TS%
Wemby: -3.0 ppg, -1.1 apg. -0.8 rpg, +0.2 bpg, -0.035 TS%

We should go back and let those other guys know they were "supposed" to regress their second years when they were 20.

Last time I checked, when those other guys stub their toes, Wemby doesn't feel it. You can't have it both ways. Wemby can't be praised for having better numbers than those guys his rookie year and then panic when those guys catch up the next year. Growth isn't linear. We all know why Wemby is struggling to put up points this year. It's not a mystery. If the goal is to get him to have better numbers, he needs to stop being a perimeter scorer and focus more on playing off his teammates. His efficiency, rebounds and points would go way up, and his turnovers would drop. But that would imply that he isn't the greatest, or limit him or some other nonsense, so we can't have that.

There's more than one way to sniff, man. Obsessing over Wemby's exaltation fits that category. At least for Pop sniffers, people are doing it based on what he's already done versus what they hope he'll eventually do. We can be Spurs fans who enjoy Wemby without constantly panicking over his place next to the greats.

[Dex]

Wemby has failed himself not coming into the season in shape. He's gassed after every 5 minute stint. The guy literally can't play longer than 5 minutes and that's with time outs in between.

May also explain why he settles for all of these three-pointers.

Anybody who has played pickup basketball knows the feeling...late in game, you're gasping for air, and you're just like "fuck it, I'm gonna take this three to try to finish the game instead of trying to take a guy off the dribble or get down in the paint."

I understand that Wemby has the ultimate green light, but it's like Coaching 101 to say "Hey, your three isn't falling right now, let's try something else" instead of "We want him to keep shooting"

[Raven]

he's doing fine, he just gets gassed

[baseline bum]

Sorry scott, Wemby's the one playing low BBIQ ball. He needs to fucking quit roaming to the three point line constantly in halfcourt sets. Every time he puts up one of those catch and shoot threes from the top of the key area might as well just call it a turnover. Can't blame this season on the supporting cast, even Branham is looking decent and Sochan is becoming the player we all envisioned in 2022 (fucking sucks losing him 4-6 weeks).

[RC_Drunkford]

May also explain why he settles for all of these three-pointers.

Anybody who has played pickup basketball knows the feeling...late in game, you're gasping for air, and you're just like "fuck it, I'm gonna take this three to try to finish the game instead of trying to take a guy off the dribble or get down in the paint."

I understand that Wemby has the ultimate green light, but it's like Coaching 101 to say "Hey, your three isn't falling right now, let's try something else" instead of "We want him to keep shooting"

of course it is because he has to bring it on both ends. And wrestling in the post tires you out even more. That being said it's not that his jumpers are short, but he's definitely settling for dumb shots or passing the ball back out when he's tired.

[Mr. Body]

It's a real concern. I've been annoyed by his Stephen Curry shot selection since the start of the season. Fortunately he's curtailing his chucking a bit lately.

That said, I'm not really worried long term. End of last season was good, but the team still didn't know how best to play with Wembanyama, how he requires so much space and has issues with position.

The league is the best in the world, and really good at adjusting to young players. Teams know when to dig at his drives, when to send doubles, how to jam areas to hurt where he operates. He's also more of a SF in playstyle where his shooting isn't quite there at this time.

The team seems to be taking the early part of the season to work pieces in and see what fits. This is a better version of last year, or at least one where we're actually still winning. But I think they're working things out. Paul and Wemby didn't have much preseason game time together. They need to learn how to win with and without Wembanyama and this was working pretty well, or at least they were activating Sochan a lot. And then they've been missing a key SG.

I dunno. It's a long season. Dude is tired from the summer. They have room to tinker and work while they're still .500 already.

[Atl Spur]

of course it is because he has to bring it on both ends. And wrestling in the post tires you out even more. That being said it's not that his jumpers are short, but he's definitely settling for dumb shots or passing the ball back out when he's tired.

Agreed! He needs to be more patient but also impose his will on the other team. I will say again, take the Dirk approach on offense ( mid post is killer / with occasional open 3 ) & various pic and rolls.

[hater]

Wembys career will be fine as long as hes healthy

His most pessimistic outlook is still a perennial allstar and multi year champ

But it does looks like he will have to leave the Spurs to even achieve that low bar

Who d fuck is the scrub that is coaching right now???

Smdh

[Leetonidas]

Trying to give Wemby the benefit of the doubt that he'll shake the rust off soon. It's still early so I don't think it's time to panic yet. In 10-15 games we'll see. Definitely is becoming a legit concern though

[Mugen]

He needs to learn some accountability and not just have another excuse tbh. The coaching was bad last year as well and he still produced.

Seems like growing pains and fatigue catching up to him after his first full season of NBA ball + Olympics play. I think he'll break through it tbh.

[Raven]

It's a real concern. I've been annoyed by his Stephen Curry shot selection since the start of the season. Fortunately he's curtailing his chucking a bit lately.

That said, I'm not really worried long term. End of last season was good, but the team still didn't know how best to play with Wembanyama, how he requires so much space and has issues with position.

The league is the best in the world, and really good at adjusting to young players. Teams know when to dig at his drives, when to send doubles, how to jam areas to hurt where he operates. He's also more of a SF in playstyle where his shooting isn't quite there at this time.

The team seems to be taking the early part of the season to work pieces in and see what fits. This is a better version of last year, or at least one where we're actually still winning. But I think they're working things out. Paul and Wemby didn't have much preseason game time together. They need to learn how to win with and without Wembanyama and this was working pretty well, or at least they were activating Sochan a lot. And then they've been missing a key SG.

I dunno. It's a long season. Dude is tired from the summer. They have room to tinker and work while they're still .500 already.

if i were to take a stab at fixing his post issues, i would say that he should be less focused on trying to get position and more focused on running in circles around the paint, since nobody can block him.

[itzsoweezee]

He’s out of shape and consistently putting in a half assed effort in most games. He’s shooting threes rather than moving around on offense. He’s subbing out 5 minutes into the game. He’s not putting in consistent effort on the defensive end - last year he was guarding entire areas of the court by himself, he’s not doing that now.

I don’t know if he’s injured, or just out of shape, or maybe he’s just internalized that these games don’t matter. But it’s pretty clear that wemby’s poor play is not due to X’s and O’s or roster construction.

[MannyIsGod]

Wemby is not "fine"

What other 20-year old blue chip prospects regressed their second season?

Here are some 20-year old blue chip prospects in their second seasons:

Lebron: +8.8 ppg, +1.3 apg, +1.9 rpg, +0.066 TS%
KD: +5.0 ppg, +0.4 apg, +2.1 rpg, +0.058 TS%
Luka: +7.6 ppg, +2.8 apg, +1.5 rpg, +0.040 TS%
Ant: +2.0 ppg, +0.9 apg, +0.1 rpg, +0.37 TS%
Wemby: -3.0 ppg, -1.1 apg. -0.8 rpg, +0.2 bpg, -0.035 TS%

We should go back and let those other guys know they were "supposed" to regress their second years when they were 20.

You know better than this Scott. But if you want to bet on whether or not Wemby will have regressed when it comes to the end of the year stats I am happy to bet if you actually feel he has regressed. But I suspect you know this is a small sample size after the league has learned to adapt to him and while he is shooting poorly and he will figure it out quite soon.

[SupremeGuy]

Its just the same the inly difference was timmy has high BBIQ,post moves and always play in the post.I dunno, man. Seems like Wemby gets swarmed a lot more than Timmy ever did. More like David tbh. But The Admiral had the body and mentality to play hard in the paint. Wemby seems like he wants to be a guard. I don't think anyone would have a problem with that if he was hitting his 3s at a high percentage. Lew and Hakeem need invites to give Wemby some hook shot training tbh. Since he clearly doesn't want to bang.

[LeBowen]

I dunno, man. Seems like Wemby gets swarmed a lot more than Timmy ever did. More like David tbh. But The Admiral had the body and mentality to play hard in the paint. Wemby seems like he wants to be a guard. I don't think anyone would have a problem with that if he was hitting his 3s at a high percentage. Lew and Hakeem need invites to give Wemby some hook shot training tbh. Since he clearly doesn't want to bang.

Can't compare the game back then to what we have now.
Timmy was also 21y6m old when he made his NBA debut. Played alongside an all-time great and had a very good roster around him.
Wemby won't turn 21 for a couple of months. Drafted into a top3 worst roster in the league.
Admiral was 24 in his rookie season.

[Pauleta14]

of course it is because he has to bring it on both ends. And wrestling in the post tires you out even more. That being said it's not that his jumpers are short, but he's definitely settling for dumb shots or passing the ball back out when he's tired.

Why would someone who's shown poise and high BBIQ would suddenly make dumb decisions every games...?

Stamina could indeed be an explanation, but it's his 9th game now, it can't be (just) that

To me it's just a childish behaviour, there's still a kid in him and that's probably the way he's acted with his parents and teachers all his life. He's not a confrontational person, not the type to say out loud if there's a pb, but keep it for him for too long.

Pop was the one that took care of it last season after the ASG, now that he's gone, Wemby is fucked

[Pauleta14]

https://www.youtube.com/live/_d2qeVtfOTs?si=uw46xjjZy2yEK3On

[Pauleta14]

Tim Legler seems to agree. The Spurs are mismanaging Wemby

The whole league can see it but ST knows better :lol

[scott]

Wemby has failed himself not coming into the season in shape. He's gassed after every 5 minute stint. The guy literally can't play longer than 5 minutes and that's with time outs in between.


Wemby failed wemby by playing street ball.


Yeah Wemby’s playing a completely different style than the one where he was dominating towards the second half of last season.

You see, the thing is... these are not mutually exclusive to my point. Yes - Wemby is too blame for a lot of this stuff. His lack of conditioning, his lack of discipline, his propensity to jack up threes... he is all equally responsible for all of these things.

But, who is that mentor, that on the court leader to guide him to how to play the right way? CP3 is the closest thing we got, but he is no longer capable of leading with his play on the court. It's not CP3s fault he was born 39 years ago - but that is a fact we need to acknowledge.

Wemby is not getting coached, and he doesn't have that on the court leader to show him what winning basketball looks like. That is the Front Office's fault, and that is where they've failed him.

I wish we could just say this is a slump... but it's not. It's not just that Wemby's 3s aren't falling, it's that he's playing an entirely soft, street ball style that won't be corrected if those 3s start falling... in fact, it may reinforce this bad behavior and make it worse!

We should have put a better team around him so that this kind of play would not be acceptable. Right now, it just gets accepted because "we're seeing what we have"


Wemby NEEDS to ask for a trade ASAP

We were right last season, this is the worst organisation and roste for him by far



What? Delete your account.

[scott]

I keep going back and forth on this...noone should be absolved of their part of the blame.
Coaching has been subpar, spacing is disgustingly bad, most of the roster still can't get the ball to Wemby, but he's also looked poor in most situations.

First off, I don't buy into those low effort arguments because every single NBA player prefers being active on offense.
Wemby's defense has been beyond ridiculous and anyone who doesn't see it is a blind hater. He's at 3.7 blocks per game with opponents regularly it passing out because they don't even bother to challenge him.
He didn't have a single game with more than one or two bad possessions. He's easily on GOAT defender trajectory.
If he shows effort on defense, there's no reason for him to not show it on offense.

To me it just looks like he's straight up lost and doesn't know what to do because he lost confidence.
That's where coaching staff should come in.
Instead they told him to jack it up from deep at will. I don't think Wemby is a player who'd do it against coaching staff's wishes.
It's obviously not working and he's doubling down, starts shooting until he makes some.

But the biggest issue for me are his handles. They're obviously great for someone of his stature, but he's still a 7'4 player and the ball simply has to go high while he's dribbling.
Everyone figured it out and it's really easy for good defenders to force turnovers. I don't think Wemby should be handling the ball on the perimeter unless it's an iso against slow bigs.
There's no advantage to be had against wings or guards, he's not beating them off the dribble.

If we're talking post-ups, he lacks strength and again everyone figured it out.
Some are saying we should bring LMA to coach him, but much like LMA wouldn't be able to handle it like Wemby, Wemby can't use LMA's moves with his current physical tools.
Every time he tries to go up for a fadeaway he gets bumped and pushed off the balance. Same thing happens when he tries to put it down on the floor and attack the basket.
Unless he's really deep and long enough to lay it in, he loses balance and can't get to the basket.
What coaching staff should work on is his face-up game around the post.
Get Timmy in and work on those jumpers close to the paint. With his touch (31-34 FT so far) it should be automatic.

But for every Wemby's flaw, the team is o much worse.
Just rewatch last night's game. At least 5 situations where they can just throw it high while he's got the defender somewhat sealed in the paint, but they don't...then Wemby just goes back to the corner and is out of possession completely.

Lastly, Olympics obviously messed with his preparation and he looks like we're 60 games into the season. Completely gassed after 7 minutes.

Overall, as long as his defense is on current level, there should be no alarms, it should be on coaching staff to figure out how to get him more easy points because he's obviously showing effort, even though it sometimes doesn't look like it.

Yes, exactly! Everything you just described - from the coaching to the lack of what's around him to his own culpability - that is the failing. The Spurs can only control two of those three things, and try to influence the other. But they've just said "fuck it, it will figure itself out with another high draft pick eventually". That's the failing.

[Pauleta14]

What? Delete your account.

:lol

Every thing's gonna be ok scotty, just breathe

[scott]

Last time I checked, when those other guys stub their toes, Wemby doesn't feel it. You can't have it both ways. Wemby can't be praised for having better numbers than those guys his rookie year and then panic when those guys catch up the next year. Growth isn't linear. We all know why Wemby is struggling to put up points this year. It's not a mystery. If the goal is to get him to have better numbers, he needs to stop being a perimeter scorer and focus more on playing off his teammates. His efficiency, rebounds and points would go way up, and his turnovers would drop. But that would imply that he isn't the greatest, or limit him or some other nonsense, so we can't have that.

I don't know of anyone who is against the bolded portion. That is absolutely what should be happening, but it's not - and it is a disservice to his development. Why? Because there is no accountability from the coaching staff or his teammates. He's just allowed to be an inefficient chucker. But here you are, telling us this is "what he is supposed to do"


There's more than one way to sniff, man. Obsessing over Wemby's exaltation fits that category. At least for Pop sniffers, people are doing it based on what he's already done versus what they hope he'll eventually do. We can be Spurs fans who enjoy Wemby without constantly panicking over his place next to the greats.

Once again, you completely miss the mark. This isn't about Wemby's stats or his place among the greats. It's about the fact that we are witnessing him ACTIVELY GETTING WORSE on the offensive side of the ball in the apparent hope that he'll eventually just figure it out on his own.

We should have high expectations of him, and our team should be doing everything in its power to help him reach those expectations. The GOATs don't achieve greatness but just some laissez faire approach to the game and hopefully they'll be good and we'll also happen to win. They push themselves. Right now, Wemby's only pushing himself in the wrong direction and our coaching staff and team structure only serves to either enable it or, at a very minimum, do nothing to stop it.

[scott]

Sorry scott (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=150), Wemby's the one playing low BBIQ ball. He needs to fucking quit roaming to the three point line constantly in halfcourt sets. Every time he puts up one of those catch and shoot threes from the top of the key area might as well just call it a turnover. Can't blame this season on the supporting cast, even Branham is looking decent and Sochan is becoming the player we all envisioned in 2022 (fucking sucks losing him 4-6 weeks).

This is actually the point, my man. Where is a coach or a team leader to actively manage him into improving that BBIQ?

Branham and Sochan can be playing great, but let's be honest... they are not going to be the ones who talk sense into him and hold him accountable. A CP3 type, closer to his prime, would have been that guy. You need a coach who is actively COACHING, and it helps to have an on-the-court mentor who leads either with words or with actions on the court.

You listen to Tony Parker interviews and he talks about how Timmy intimidated the hell out of him because Tony knew bullshit wouldn't be tolerated. Who's the guy on this team to not tolerate Wemby's bullshit and get him pointed back in the right direction?

[Pauleta14]

Instead on only focusing on how Wemby looked at the end of last season when he was dominating, you should focus on how his teammates looked and how the team played for him, which they just stoped doing...

Even with Vassell out and a bunch of Gleaguers he dominated the Nuggets, it's not just having 3pts shooter to space out, it's the movements around him and THE WILL to play via him, using him court vision, playmaking abilities etc

They just stoped doing it and oh surprise Wemby looks as lost as last season's pre ASG :lol

[scott]

He needs to learn some accountability and not just have another excuse tbh. The coaching was bad last year as well and he still produced.

Seems like growing pains and fatigue catching up to him after his first full season of NBA ball + Olympics play. I think he'll break through it tbh.

Absolutely - and that's the point. Who is keeping Wemby accountable? It's not just that his shot isn't falling and that he is rusty... he is playing WEAK and STUPID.

The Spurs would be well suited if 1) the coaching staff held him accountable (since he says he wants to be coached hard) and 2) he had high performing teammates who didn't tolerate this shit and forced Wemby to raise his game.

People naturally respond to the environment around him. Being a team full of scrubs doesn't force Wemby to elevate his game. Being on a competitive team would... we've seen in the past last year how he would elevate his game a notch in close or perceived "big games". We need more of that.

[scott]

You know better than this Scott. But if you want to bet on whether or not Wemby will have regressed when it comes to the end of the year stats I am happy to bet if you actually feel he has regressed. But I suspect you know this is a small sample size after the league has learned to adapt to him and while he is shooting poorly and he will figure it out quite soon.

Yes it's a small sample size, but do you watch the games, Manny? So far this season, he has quite clearly regressed on the offensive end. It's not just the fact that his shots aren't falling... he is playing soft and making stupid decisions - especially compared to how he was playing after the ASB last year.

We need not wait for the sample size to get larger to take corrective action on an obvious problem.

[vy65]

I have similar concerns, but not as severe as Scott's. Wondering aloud, I wonder if the team is doing another 20-game experiment (like the Point Sochan one from last year) where they're letting Wemby do his best KD impression to see if it's something that will work. It clearly hasn't 11-12 games in.

I'd be all for adding talent to the roster, but that begs the question of who. Ideally, you'd want a big man. Giannis comes to mind with how the Bucks are doing, but I don't think emptying the cupboard for him is worth it. Is it someone like Randle? I don't think so. Ayton? Hell no. Some white stiff like Vucevic or Zubac? Probably not. Aside from big men, the only star-tier player that's available right now is Zach Levine -- no thanks. Other than that, I can't think of anyone who would fit the description.

[Leetonidas]

Wemby is not "fine"

What other 20-year old blue chip prospects regressed their second season?

Here are some 20-year old blue chip prospects in their second seasons:

Lebron: +8.8 ppg, +1.3 apg, +1.9 rpg, +0.066 TS%
KD: +5.0 ppg, +0.4 apg, +2.1 rpg, +0.058 TS%
Luka: +7.6 ppg, +2.8 apg, +1.5 rpg, +0.040 TS%
Ant: +2.0 ppg, +0.9 apg, +0.1 rpg, +0.37 TS%
Wemby: -3.0 ppg, -1.1 apg. -0.8 rpg, +0.2 bpg, -0.035 TS%

We should go back and let those other guys know they were "supposed" to regress their second years when they were 20.

I assume those are full season numbers compared to Victor's first 9 games? Probably would be able to draw more conclusions by comparing the first 10-15 games of those guy's 2nd years instead of the entire season imho

[Mugen]

This is actually the point, my man. Where is a coach or a team leader to actively manage him into improving that BBIQ?

Branham and Sochan can be playing great, but let's be honest... they are going to be the ones who talk sense into him and hold him accountable. A CP3 type, closer to his prime, would have been that guy. You need a coach who is actively COACHING, and it helps to have an on-the-court mentor who leads either with words or with actions on the court.

You listen to Tony Parker interviews and he talks about how Timmy intimidated the hell out of him because Tony knew bullshit wouldn't be tolerated. Who's the guy on this team to not tolerate Wemby's bullshit and get him pointed back in the right direction?

I hear what you're saying but the reality of Wemby's situation is that he's just not gonna have the same benefit as Timmy/Tony did in terms of having alpha dog mentorship. Those were frankly lightning in the bottle situations and what Wemby is going through now (having to learn to be a leader and hold himself accountable) is much more the norm in the NBA when you're talking about shitty teams.

You just can't bring in a D-Rob or Timmy type to "intimidate" Wemby. I do think the FO recognized the importance of veteran presence in the locker room during last season and that's why CP3/Barnes are on the team tbh.

In theory, it should be Pop but a coach (especially an old one who got passed by the game years ago) can only have so much impact.

Wemby is going through some growing pains. You can argue about him needing more structure around him and I don't necessarily disagree. But ultimately the onus will be on him to mature and get through this like other great players have done in the past tbh. He needs to learn accountability and not just talk about it. What we're seeing right now is that process play out tbh, as painful as it may be right now.

[scott]

I have similar concerns, but not as severe as Scott's. Wondering aloud, I wonder if the team is doing another 20-game experiment (like the Point Sochan one from last year) where they're letting Wemby do his best KD impression to see if it's something that will work. It clearly hasn't 11-12 games in.

I'd be all for adding talent to the roster, but that begs the question of who. Ideally, you'd want a big man. Giannis comes to mind with how the Bucks are doing, but I don't think emptying the cupboard for him is worth it. Is it someone like Randle? I don't think so. Ayton? Hell no. Some white stiff like Vucevic or Zubac? Probably not. Aside from big men, the only star-tier player that's available right now is Zach Levine -- no thanks. Other than that, I can't think of anyone who would fit the description.

Yeah, I don't think the opportunities are there to add a second star right now, neither from a cost perspective or from a availability perspective. A Devin Booker would be ideal... but he's neither available or affordable, so it's not worth thinking about.

However... I think we could make some smaller moves that just improve the overall level of our team to a point where Wemby is "forced" to quit dicking around and to play winning basketball.

What if you added a Dorian Finney Smith to this roster to take up Keldon Johnson minutes?

We've talked about Brooks Lopez before... what if you could upgrade from Collins to him?

These are guys who will necessarily spend a lot of time with Wemby on the court, but they'll raise the level of our team and (I hope) elevate Wemby's game as they'll make us generally more competitive and the team overall will be trying to win games.

I think this is the correct part of what Pop said before last season - winning is important, not just in the aspect of competing for titles, but because winning is also a development tool. Winning teaches guys how to play like winners. Right now, we lack that and we seem to be okay with it.

[scott]

I assume those are full season numbers compared to Victor's first 9 games? Probably would be able to draw more conclusions by comparing the first 10-15 games of those guy's 2nd years instead of the entire season imho

The stats are just a proxy for individual performance, because what else is there to go by. I only brought those up in response to Chinook's asinine suggestion that 20-year blue chip prospects are "supposed" to do what Wemby's doing (noticeably regress). Ignore the stats and just ask yourself... does Wemby look better or worse than he did last year on the offensive end? He looks SIGNIFICANTLY worse to me, it is quite obvious regression. This is no bueno.

[MannyIsGod]

Yes it's a small sample size, but do you watch the games, Manny? So far this season, he has quite clearly regressed on the offensive end. It's not just the fact that his shots aren't falling... he is playing soft and making stupid decisions - especially compared to how he was playing after the ASB last year.

We need not wait for the sample size to get larger to take corrective action on an obvious problem.

Yeah I've watched all the games and I don't disagree but I also think that the team around him is somewhat worse right now than it was last year. We added Barnes and Paul, but subtracted Cedi, Devin, and Tre. And now Sochan too. I think its important to wait this out. Look, if we're halfway through the season and we're still seeing this then I would be more inclined to agree with you but right now I'm trying to be patient. I mean obviously I think our system is garbage but I think even in teh system Wemby will be much improved by the end of the year.

[Arcadian]

Wemby is not "fine"

What other 20-year old blue chip prospects regressed their second season?

Here are some 20-year old blue chip prospects in their second seasons:

Lebron: +8.8 ppg, +1.3 apg, +1.9 rpg, +0.066 TS%
KD: +5.0 ppg, +0.4 apg, +2.1 rpg, +0.058 TS%
Luka: +7.6 ppg, +2.8 apg, +1.5 rpg, +0.040 TS%
Ant: +2.0 ppg, +0.9 apg, +0.1 rpg, +0.37 TS%
Wemby: -3.0 ppg, -1.1 apg. -0.8 rpg, +0.2 bpg, -0.035 TS%

We should go back and let those other guys know they were "supposed" to regress their second years when they were 20.
The problem is, it's too small of a sample size. We have 9 games so far this season. His numbers could easily increase within a few weeks.

It's too soon to say this isn't just an early season slump yet.

[LeBowen]

https://3stepsbasket.com/player/victor-wembanyama/shooting

https://i.imgur.com/jvwP9q4.png
4/21 total from those 3 mid-range positions is a bigger concern than his 3pt shooting, especially considering that he's 94% from the line.
As I said, too easy to bump him off balance.

[scott]

I hear what you're saying but the reality of Wemby's situation is that he's just not gonna have the same benefit as Timmy/Tony did in terms of having alpha dog mentorship. Those were frankly lightning in the bottle situations and what Wemby is going through now (having to learn to be a leader and hold himself accountable) is much more the norm in the NBA when you're talking about shitty teams.

You just can't bring in a D-Rob or Timmy type to "intimidate" Wemby. I do think the FO recognized the importance of veteran presence in the locker room during last season and that's why CP3/Barnes are on the team tbh.

In theory, it should be Pop but a coach (especially an old one who got passed by the game years ago) can only have so much impact.

Wemby is going through some growing pains. You can argue about him needing more structure around him and I don't necessarily disagree. But ultimately the onus will be on him to mature and get through this like other great players have done in the past tbh. He needs to learn accountability and not just talk about it. What we're seeing right now is that process play out tbh, as painful as it may be right now.

Seems like we very much agree on the diagnosis, but not on the prognosis or the treatment.

Letting itself work out might work, but it's a much bigger risk. I think the greatest solve for a guy like Wemby is just creating a situation where his dicking around is so evidently not acceptable that even he sees that... and I think that will come by being a more competitive team. When you're soft tanking and how low expectations... what does it matter if Wemby fucks around and jacks up 13 threes? We're all just learning, right? But when we're actively competing in games, trying to make the play-in, the stakes are higher and that kind of play gets tolerated by no one.

My position is straight forward: what we are doing now might benefit us with a draft pick, but it will hurt us in terms of how it impacts Wemby's development. I prioritize the latter over the former.

[poopbox]

Wemby's fine, Scott. He's doing exactly what a 20-year-old blue chip is supposed to do. Nothing good comes from comparing him to older rookies or guys who were low options starting out. Maybe the right star would work out, but many would just exacerbate the growing pains he's having.

I think the whole point of what Scott is getting at is a lot of these "growing pains" only exist because of the how the team is built around him, which I mostly agree with. There are basketball problems that exist with Victor that exist with all second year nba players and their are problems that exist with Victor that are solely because of who his teammates are, which is something the spurs should be doing a better job of managing because you know...it's their jobs.

Take Victor off this team and replace him with nothing. Is this even a modern basketball team? Do we have any big who can shoot 3's to the point that someone will guard them? Do we have a guard who can get from the 3 point line to the paint consistently? Do we have a 3 level scorer on this team? Do we even have a two level scorer on this team? Can we run modern nba plays and actions that are designed to get players open from 3? I'm and quite a few others are of the opinion that the answer to all of these questions is a resounding no with the exception of Devin being at least a 2 level scorer.

[rjv]

Wemby's fine, Scott. He's doing exactly what a 20-year-old blue chip is supposed to do. Nothing good comes from comparing him to older rookies or guys who were low options starting out. Maybe the right star would work out, but many would just exacerbate the growing pains he's having.

this is really all that needs to be said, ironically, one of chinook's most spot-on posts comes in just four sentences. (j/k)

[scott]

Yeah I've watched all the games and I don't disagree but I also think that the team around him is somewhat worse right now than it was last year. We added Barnes and Paul, but subtracted Cedi, Devin, and Tre. And now Sochan too. I think its important to wait this out. Look, if we're halfway through the season and we're still seeing this then I would be more inclined to agree with you but right now I'm trying to be patient. I mean obviously I think our system is garbage but I think even in teh system Wemby will be much improved by the end of the year.

I think it's close, but one way or another - my point is that this is the problem! Put a better team around him, and he'll elevate himself to match that level of play. He's a competitor, he wants to win. Dude was devistated because he got a silver medal at the Olympics. That's what I love about him. The lack of expectations right now because the team sucks is what allows him to avoid accountability.

[scott]

The problem is, it's too small of a sample size. We have 9 games so far this season. His numbers could easily increase within a few weeks.

It's too soon to say this isn't just an early season slump yet.

The stats are in reference to Chinook's asinine suggestion that this is just what happens to blue chip 20-year olds.

A slump explains the low shooting %s, but it's his style of play right now that is also a problem. That's not a slump, that's a lack of accountability.

[scott]

I think the whole point of what Scott is getting at is a lot of these "growing pains" only exist because of the how the team is built around him, which I mostly agree with. There are basketball problems that exist with Victor that exist with all second year nba players and their are problems that exist with Victor that are solely because of who his teammates are, which is something the spurs should be doing a better job of managing because you know...it's their jobs.

Take Victor off this team and replace him with nothing. Is this even a modern basketball team? Do we have any big who can shoot 3's to the point that someone will guard them? Do we have a guard who can get from the 3 point line to the paint consistently? Do we have a 3 level scorer on this team? Do we even have a two level scorer on this team? Can we run modern nba plays and actions that are designed to get players open from 3? I'm and quite a few others are of the opinion that the answer to all of these questions is a resounding no with the exception of Devin being at least a 2 level scorer.

Exactly. Spot on.

To the point some other's, like Manny, have made. Yes - Devin has yet to play a game and that needs to be considered. Sochan is now hurt and that needs to be considered. We haven't seen our full strength squad yet... but we have seen that we have key rotation pieces that are below standard, and that will lower us into this soft tank/"we're just seeing what we have"/low expectations environment where it doesn't matter if Wemby plays like a low efficiency chucker. But it does matter - because we need Wemby learning how to play like a true leader, not learning how to be a chucker.

[LeBowen]

Is this even a modern basketball team?

It's a top3 worst roster in the league without Wemby.

Devin is legit, but injured. He'd be a legit starter for most teams.
Jeremy has shown great improvement, got injured. Still, he's a forward with no jumpshot which is a huge issue in today's league.
CP3 is a great leader, but he's obviously done and the most he can do is take over for short stretches.
Barnes is also solid, but he never imposes himself and the team often just forgets about him.
Champagnie is turning out to be our third best young player and is the only modern role player we have. Him and Devin are the only shooters that are legit off-ball movement threats.

The rest are charity cases. Some might develop into useful rotation pieces somewhere, but most are useless.
Keldon is what he is, we should've traded him before everyone realized.
Tre is a player limited by his athleticism that's below NBA level and he'll never be anything more than a subpar backup. Being on a horrible roster makes him look way better than he actually is.
Collins is worse than half the centers in G-league.
Branham, Mamu, Wesley, Sidy and Bassey are fighting to stay in the league.

Castle is a rookie with high upside, but he's playing on a roster with horrible spacing, making his development more difficult than it needs to be.

How many of our rotation members would be useful for playoff teams? Not even contenders, but teams like let's say Kings, Grizzlies, Magic or Pacers?

[spurraider21]

i remember hoping CP3 would make scoring opportunities so much easier for Vic...

[TDomination]

its as if everything that happened with LMA asking for a trade back in whatever year it was 2018 or something like that, has now affected the organization.
Pop afterwards admitted of using LMA incorrectly and adjusted how he coached him. He seemed to have given him more leeway.

Perhaps they are afraid of scaring Wemby into wanting a trade so they are giving him the green light with whatever he wants to do. Trusting that he will eventually figure it out on his own because he's a smart player who wants to win.

I believe they are hoping that Wemby will soon realize, oh look, me shooting 8 threes a game and only making 1 is not a good thing for the team and we keep losing. Perhaps I should focus more on playing inside so that we can win games.

I do believe Wemby is extremely competitive and will do everything he can to win...eventually.

[TDomination]

i remember hoping CP3 would make scoring opportunities so much easier for Vic...
pick and roll situations with CP3 would be good. But there has been numerous occasions where they PNR together but Vic doesnt run with Paul. He just stays back and expects the ball back for a long jumper. Dudes gotta run with him.

[Pauleta14]

pick and roll situations with CP3 would be good. But there has been numerous occasions where they PNR together but Vic doesnt run with Paul. He just stays back and expects the ball back for a long jumper. Dudes gotta run with him.

You mean the other way arorund...

Cp doesn't have the legs to penetrate anymore, he stays at the 3pt line 80% of the time

[Chinook]

Paul is Wemby's cryptonite now?

[MannyIsGod]

I think it's close, but one way or another - my point is that this is the problem! Put a better team around him, and he'll elevate himself to match that level of play. He's a competitor, he wants to win. Dude was devistated because he got a silver medal at the Olympics. That's what I love about him. The lack of expectations right now because the team sucks is what allows him to avoid accountability.

I mean its obviously a problem but we're talking about 3 starters from last year being injured. That's not anyone failing anyone that's just bad luck.

[Mugen]

i remember hoping CP3 would make scoring opportunities so much easier for Vic...

Doesn't help that Vic only rolls about 10% of the time during PnRs. The rest of the time he's popping out for his 25 footers and CP3 is rightly saying f that tbh :lol

[TDomination]

You mean the other way arorund...

Cp doesn't have the legs to penetrate anymore, he stays at the 3pt line 80% of the time

Cp3 hasn't done it too frequently but theres been occasions where CP3 has the ball at the 3pt line, Wemby sets the screen and Paul attacks the basket. pauls and wembys defenders switch, causing the guard to be on Wemby.
Paul attacks and then ends up passing it back to Wemby due to the mismatch who stays either at the 3 or at the top of the paint. Whereas if he had just rolled with Paul it would likely be an easy dunk or easy floater.

Sean Elliott called him out on it a few times.

[scott]

I mean its obviously a problem but we're talking about 3 starters from last year being injured. That's not anyone failing anyone that's just bad luck.

Let's be honest - it's only one starter you can point to as a potential excuse. Devin hasn't played yet with Wemby and it's fair to say that his presence might change some things.

But Wemby was already playing like a soft bitch when Sochan got hurt, it's not like Sochan's injury is what caused the regression.

And Tre's injury isn't what's making Wemby play soft and honestly I'm not sure it's impact the team at all. I like Tre and think he's a serviceable backup... but his absence isn't what's making this team's offense sputter (I don't think Tre would do a better job than CP3 is doing... and the offense is still bad with CP3 on the court).

[ambchang]

I think the problem is that wemby is adjusting to his pregnancy after he got smashed every single night now. The problem is he is trying to find out who the father is and the focus is ….. in 10 months time he’d be fine.

On another note, I don’t totally agree that Wembys problems lie with lack of shooting. Jokic and Giannis don’t have much shooting around them but they are doing fine. Sure the teams suck but they are still putting up fantastic individual numbers.

I’m of the opinion that it is primarily coaching issues that can’t design a functional offence around wemby, at which point the players (especially wemby) does not know what to do, so he chose the path of least resistance and just jack up shots. The movements of the players are unpredictable because no one knows who will do what next, and this creates an issue where everything goes on offence. Even without spacing from good shooters, and the spurs aren’t THAT bad of a shooting team, the players can still set screens, cut snd get open through continuous movement. That is clearly not the case now where the players mostly just stand around and wait for wemby to just jack up a three.

The second issue is that wemby really has to take it down low and make things happen when his shots are not falling. It is not a coincidence that his two good games this year starts off with him nailing threes early in the game. It opens up the options and he was able to just dominate after that, but he has to be aggressive and take the ball to the hole even when the shots aren’t falling. He can’t just sit around and wait.

[spurraider21]

Paul is Wemby's cryptonite now?
Wemby is Wemby's cryptonite right now

[LeBowen]

Let's be honest - it's only one start you can point to as a potential excuse. Devin hasn't played yet with Wemby and it's fair to say that his presence might change some things.

But Wemby was already playing like a soft bitch when Sochan got hurt, it's not like Sochan's injury is what caused the regression.

And Tre's injury isn't what's making Wemby play soft and honestly I'm not sure it's impact the team at all. I like Tre and think he's a serviceable backup... but his absence isn't what's making this team's offense sputter (I don't think Tre would do a better job than CP3 is doing... and the offense is still bad with CP3 on the court).

Don't forget that all of them sat at the end of last season and Wemby kept dominating.

[RC_Drunkford]

:lol Accountability? When is the last time this franchise has held somebody accountable? Did anybody ever get fired except for Primo for pulling his dick out?

[scott]

Well, here's the answer on accountability I guess. At this point, we all just need to hope he develops into Steph, because that's the way he's gonna play.

1854889440121864510

[exstatic]

Well, here's the answer on accountability I guess. At this point, we all just need to hope he develops into Steph, because that's the way he's gonna play.

1854889440121864510

He doesn’t have to be Steph. 35-36% would make him a devastating weapon.

THAT’S
LEAGUE
AVERAGE

How do you play him with three guys that far out? Or Two? And if you can’t flood his immediate area, how do you stop him?

[scott]

He doesn’t have to be Steph. 35-36% would make him a devastating weapon.

THAT’S
LEAGUE
AVERAGE

How do you play him with three guys that far out? Or Two? And if you can’t flood his immediate area, how do you stop him?

Do you think Wemby's 3pt shot selection is commensurate with the league average 3pt shot selection?

Because you have be an above average shooter if you're going to compensate for increased shot difficulty.

THAT'S
HOW
AVERAGES
WORK

[rjv]

The problem is, it's too small of a sample size. We have 9 games so far this season. His numbers could easily increase within a few weeks.

It's too soon to say this isn't just an early season slump yet.

nothing is ever too early for ST.

[Pauleta14]

Cp3 hasn't done it too frequently but theres been occasions where CP3 has the ball at the 3pt line, Wemby sets the screen and Paul attacks the basket. pauls and wembys defenders switch, causing the guard to be on Wemby.
Paul attacks and then ends up passing it back to Wemby due to the mismatch who stays either at the 3 or at the top of the paint. Whereas if he had just rolled with Paul it would likely be an easy dunk or easy floater.

Sean Elliott called him out on it a few times.

Fair enough, it's a bit of both, but cp3 can't do it as regularly as we'd expect

Same situation, Wemby sets the pick, rolls, is wide open under the basket, Paul passes to corner who just has to quick pass to Wemby but 100% of the time shoots the ball even with a hand in his face. At best waits too long and Wemby is trapped.

That's the type of low bbiq or weak passing abilities that he has to deal with

Sean Elliott called those as well

[manufor3]

I assume those are full season numbers compared to Victor's first 9 games? Probably would be able to draw more conclusions by comparing the first 10-15 games of those guy's 2nd years instead of the entire season imho

FWIW I went and pulled the first 9 games for each of these players. Not commenting on it, just to add to the conversation.

Lebron Rookie Season - 39.5 mpg, 20.9 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 5.9 apg, 1.6 spg, 0.7 bpg, 3.5 topg, 1.9 fpg, 41.7/29.0/75.4 splits
Lebron First 9 Sophomore - 42.0 mpg, 27.1 ppg, 8.2 rpg, 5.7 apg, 2.2 spg, 1.3 bpg, 3.3 topg, 1.0 fpg, 48.9/36.7/75.6 splits

KD Rookie Season - 34.6 mpg, 20.3 ppg, 4.4 rpg, 2.4 apg, 1.0 spg, 0.9 bpg, 2.9 topg, 1.5 fpg, 43.0/28.8/87.3 splits
KD First 9 Sophomore - 35.0 mpg, 21.1 ppg, 4.1 rpg, 1.9 apg, 0.8 spg, 0.7 bpg, 3.3 topg, 1.6 fpg, 43.0/30.0/83.0 splits

Luka Rookie Season - 32.2 mpg, 21.2 ppg, 7.8 rpg, 6.0 apg, 1.1 spg, 0.3 bpg, 3.4 topg, 1.9 fpg, 42.7/32.7/71.3 splits
Luka First 9 Sophomore - 34.9 mpg, 27.7 ppg, 10.8 rpg, 9.1 apg, 1.2 spg, 0.1 bpg, 4.9 topg, 2.6 fpg, 48.0/32.1/83.6 splits

Ant Rookie Season - 32.1 mpg, 19.3 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 2.9 apg, 1.1 spg, 0.5 bpg, 2.2 topg, 1.8 fpg, 41.7/32.9/77.6 splits
Ant First 9 Sophomore - 36.1 mpg, 23.4 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 3.3 apg, 1.6 spg, 0.6 bpg, 3.0 topg, 2.3 fpg, 40.8/31.4/77.4 splits

Wemby Rookie Season - 29.7 mpg, 21.4 ppg, 10.6 rpg, 3.9 apg, 1.2 spg, 3.6 bpg, 3.7 topg, 2.2 fpg, 46.5/32.5/79.6 splits
Wemby First 9 Sophomore - 30.8 mpg, 17.7 ppg, 9.6 rpg, 2.7 apg, 1.6 spg, 3.7 bpg, 3.4 topg, 1.9 fpg, 41.3/22.6/91.2 splits

[scott]

FWIW I went and pulled the first 9 games for each of these players. Not commenting on it, just to add to the conversation.

Lebron Rookie Season - 39.5 mpg, 20.9 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 5.9 apg, 1.6 spg, 0.7 bpg, 3.5 topg, 1.9 fpg, 41.7/29.0/75.4 splits
Lebron First 9 Sophomore - 42.0 mpg, 27.1 ppg, 8.2 rpg, 5.7 apg, 2.2 spg, 1.3 bpg, 3.3 topg, 1.0 fpg, 48.9/36.7/75.6 splits

KD Rookie Season - 34.6 mpg, 20.3 ppg, 4.4 rpg, 2.4 apg, 1.0 spg, 0.9 bpg, 2.9 topg, 1.5 fpg, 43.0/28.8/87.3 splits
KD First 9 Sophomore - 35.0 mpg, 21.1 ppg, 4.1 rpg, 1.9 apg, 0.8 spg, 0.7 bpg, 3.3 topg, 1.6 fpg, 43.0/30.0/83.0 splits

Luka Rookie Season - 32.2 mpg, 21.2 ppg, 7.8 rpg, 6.0 apg, 1.1 spg, 0.3 bpg, 3.4 topg, 1.9 fpg, 42.7/32.7/71.3 splits
Luka First 9 Sophomore - 34.9 mpg, 27.7 ppg, 10.8 rpg, 9.1 apg, 1.2 spg, 0.1 bpg, 4.9 topg, 2.6 fpg, 48.0/32.1/83.6 splits

Ant Rookie Season - 32.1 mpg, 19.3 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 2.9 apg, 1.1 spg, 0.5 bpg, 2.2 topg, 1.8 fpg, 41.7/32.9/77.6 splits
Ant First 9 Sophomore - 36.1 mpg, 23.4 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 3.3 apg, 1.6 spg, 0.6 bpg, 3.0 topg, 2.3 fpg, 40.8/31.4/77.4 splits

Wemby Rookie Season - 29.7 mpg, 21.4 ppg, 10.6 rpg, 3.9 apg, 1.2 spg, 3.6 bpg, 3.7 topg, 2.2 fpg, 46.5/32.5/79.6 splits
Wemby First 9 Sophomore - 30.8 mpg, 17.7 ppg, 9.6 rpg, 2.7 apg, 1.6 spg, 3.7 bpg, 3.4 topg, 1.9 fpg, 41.3/22.6/91.2 splits

So looks like LeBron and Luka has significant jumps in efficiency, whereas KD was kinda of the same and Ant just saw an increase in USG and playing time to improve his early season stats.

But... a reminder... these stats are besides the point. I only provided them to counter Chinook's dumb suggestion that this was normal for blue-chip 20-year old sophomores, which is clearly not the case.

We can all see with our eyes that Wemby is moving in the wrong direction where he left off last season (which also happens to be born out in the numbers). Even if Wemby was making those 3s 50% better to put him at 33% versus 22%, would we be happy with how he is playing?

His shots don't even look bad most of the time, a lot of them are rimming out... they are just ill advised, and he can't even take advantage of being guarded by Fred Van Vleet in the post.

[scott]

And yes... I fully recognize and appreciate that Wemby is still amazing on the defensive end. His stocks number doesn't even do it justice, the way he completely alters opponents shots and decision making is GOAT level.

It's worth asking how the effort expended on that end impact him on the other end.

[Chomag]

Do yall remember LeBron leaving Cleveland the first time? Well this team and the way the FO is running it is looking very similar to the situation of what drove LeBron to leave .... just saying.

Yes , Wemby does need to shoulder some blame and be accountable but he is just not being coached at all, heck this whole team isn't. So the question was is that is this FO failing him and I believe that is a yes.

[rankingtear]

Do yall remember LeBron leaving Cleveland the first time? Well this team and the way the FO is running it is looking very similar to the situation of what drove LeBron to leave .... just saying.

Yes , Wemby does need to shoulder some blame and be accountable but he is just not being coached at all, heck this whole team isn't. So the question was is that is this FO failing him and I believe that is a yes.

FO is actually doing the opposite of CLE. What situation are you talking about?

[poopbox]

It's a top3 worst roster in the league without Wemby.

Devin is legit, but injured. He'd be a legit starter for most teams.
Jeremy has shown great improvement, got injured. Still, he's a forward with no jumpshot which is a huge issue in today's league.
CP3 is a great leader, but he's obviously done and the most he can do is take over for short stretches.
Barnes is also solid, but he never imposes himself and the team often just forgets about him.
Champagnie is turning out to be our third best young player and is the only modern role player we have. Him and Devin are the only shooters that are legit off-ball movement threats.

The rest are charity cases. Some might develop into useful rotation pieces somewhere, but most are useless.
Keldon is what he is, we should've traded him before everyone realized.
Tre is a player limited by his athleticism that's below NBA level and he'll never be anything more than a subpar backup. Being on a horrible roster makes him look way better than he actually is.
Collins is worse than half the centers in G-league.
Branham, Mamu, Wesley, Sidy and Bassey are fighting to stay in the league.

Castle is a rookie with high upside, but he's playing on a roster with horrible spacing, making his development more difficult than it needs to be.

How many of our rotation members would be useful for playoff teams? Not even contenders, but teams like let's say Kings, Grizzlies, Magic or Pacers?

I agree I think without Victor this is arguably the worst roster in the nba.

I give Sochan almost no credit for his numbers he is being spoon fed those stats by Victor.
Not only is Tre small, unathletic, and can't / won't shoot, but the number one thing he does do, have a good assist to turnover ratio, is something no one really cares about anymore, because his brother year and year out has one of the best assist to turnover ratio's in the league, and he is currently playing on a 1 year 3 million dollar deal because nobody cares about guards who don't do anything but make safe plays because they are scared of turning the ball over.

I have been disappointed with Barnes. He has not been nearly aggressive enough looking for his own shot. However, the Kings were so desperate to get rid of him they gave us a future first round pick, so when a team is that desperate to move on from a player, the player might not be that good anymore.

Remember, the Kings are a team trying to make the playoffs. After they lost to the pelicans in the play in they stepped back and looked at their team and said "You know how we are going to get better as a team and make the playoffs, by getting Harrison Barnes out of here for somebody better".

Barns done Cedi Osmaned us :lol

[SpurSpike]

Victors long term game plan isn't to chuck 3's. Its kinda like the Sochan experiment all over again where we try this crazy thing to develop in the beginning of the season and get more structured as the season progresses.

[rankingtear]

I think the whole point of what Scott is getting at is a lot of these "growing pains" only exist because of the how the team is built around him, which I mostly agree with. There are basketball problems that exist with Victor that exist with all second year nba players and their are problems that exist with Victor that are solely because of who his teammates are, which is something the spurs should be doing a better job of managing because you know...it's their jobs.

Take Victor off this team and replace him with nothing. Is this even a modern basketball team? Do we have any big who can shoot 3's to the point that someone will guard them? Do we have a guard who can get from the 3 point line to the paint consistently? Do we have a 3 level scorer on this team? Do we even have a two level scorer on this team? Can we run modern nba plays and actions that are designed to get players open from 3? I'm and quite a few others are of the opinion that the answer to all of these questions is a resounding no with the exception of Devin being at least a 2 level scorer.

My opinion is having more on ball talent around him this early in his development would further alienate him from the offense. When off ball stars like Lauri became available somewhat we did make an offer enough to be in the running.

[CGD]

There have been some interesting takes by the podcast class in the last 24 hours that perhaps Wemby’s struggles are tied to the “CP3 effect,” which is basically the fact that when Paul joins a new team the team’s pace slows considerably. Tracks this season for Spurs.

That may have been fine when Paul was in his prime, the theory goes, but now that he’s can’t reliably beat his matchup it allows teams to switch everything and/or stay at home on Vic.

Something to watch for.

[Russ]

Don't expect Pop to be the one to hold Wemby accountable.

In fact, if you want the coaches to urge Wemby to play the traditional post, closer to the basket, you won't like Pop's statement after last week's Utah game:

"He's more of a perimeter player than he is a post player, and we want him to be able to do everything. Isolate, shoot, do the whole deal. We just can't do it all at once. It just depends on the situation and what's going on." - Coach Popovich

If Wemby's a perimeter player much of the time, it's going to hard for him to anchor a championship-level team.

If he's not consistently down low, it will be harder for him to be the focus of the offense, to make his teammates better, to use his unicorn abilities, his length, at point blank range.

If he's just another three point shooter, he's doing the defense a favor, they can relax and wait for rebounds -- Wemby won't be there to rebound and put back. No one can block his shot so the defender can preserve his energy and dare him, like a gentleman's agreement.

An inside-out offense is a more consistent offense. Wemby on the perimeter will require the Spurs to acquire more offensive stars to create their own shots. It will be more ad hoc with players unsure what to do or, even worse, standing around. It will largely neutralize Wemby's value (except as a defensive force).

The ball dies when Wemby dominates it outside. The offense stops and loses structure. Nothing consistent or duplicable happens to riff off of as the game moves forward. It's like the first unstructured posession over and over, groundhog day meets anarchy.

When Pop said last year that he wanted to watch Wemby and "see what they had" rather than force a structure on him, that seemed like a great idea at the time. I didn't realize that it might be the whole plan this year and perhaps, even worse, going forward.

Maybe Wemby will never be able to get down low and be the center of the offense, but at least they should try before the status quo becomes the default norm.

https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=304426&p=11142915&viewfull=1#post11142915

[BackHome]

Is Wemby going to be just a slightly better version of Ralf Sampson?

[exstatic]

Do yall remember LeBron leaving Cleveland the first time? Well this team and the way the FO is running it is looking very similar to the situation of what drove LeBron to leave .... just saying.

Yes , Wemby does need to shoulder some blame and be accountable but he is just not being coached at all, heck this whole team isn't. So the question was is that is this FO failing him and I believe that is a yes.

:rollin. Cleveland brought in players like TOSB Shaq. That’s why LeBron left.

[baseline bum]

Do yall remember LeBron leaving Cleveland the first time? Well this team and the way the FO is running it is looking very similar to the situation of what drove LeBron to leave .... just saying.

Yes , Wemby does need to shoulder some blame and be accountable but he is just not being coached at all, heck this whole team isn't. So the question was is that is this FO failing him and I believe that is a yes.

I remember Cleveland trying to con Boozer into signing a below market deal and losing him because of it. Also think Vassell looks to be a much better prospect than Dajuan Wagner and Castle already looks better than Luke Jackson ever did.

[jesterbobman]

Cleveland spent assets early to bring in better leadership around LeBron, got to be better in year 3, then had no avenues to improve significantly, threw shit against the wall at the end, and he left. The Spurs are going to be in a slightly different asset position in 2030 /31 than the Cavs were in 2010.

I don't think anyone is arguing that the roster is great around Wemby, the debate is whether they should have spent a lot of assets to improve immediately. I think a slightly better group in terms of shooting would have helped development a bit, but at this point it's probably adding dynamic 2 way wings around an eventual Castle, Vassell / Sochan / Wemby core. Is it worth adding Cam Johnson / Dalton Knecht in place of Keldon / Champagnie for a cost of 3 picks (taking Knecht at 8 + 2 picks and Keldon for Cam?)?
I don't think it is.

[exstatic]

Don't expect Pop to be the one to hold Wemby accountable.

In fact, if you want the coaches to urge Wemby to play the traditional post, closer to the basket, you won't like Pop's statement after last week's Utah game:

"He's more of a perimeter player than he is a post player, and we want him to be able to do everything. Isolate, shoot, do the whole deal. We just can't do it all at once. It just depends on the situation and what's going on." - Coach Popovich

If Wemby's a perimeter player much of the time, it's going to hard for him to anchor a championship-level team.

If he's not consistently down low, it will be harder for him to be the focus of the offense, to make his teammates better, to use his unicorn abilities, his length, at point blank range.

If he's just another three point shooter, he's doing the defense a favor, they can relax and wait for rebounds -- Wemby won't be there to rebound and put back. No one can block his shot so the defender can preserve his energy and dare him, like a gentleman's agreement.

An inside-out offense is a more consistent offense. Wemby on the perimeter will require the Spurs to acquire more offensive stars to create their own shots. It will be more ad hoc with players unsure what to do or, even worse, standing around. It will largely neutralize Wemby's value (except as a defensive force).

The ball dies when Wemby dominates it outside. The offense stops and loses structure. Nothing consistent or duplicable happens to riff off of as the game moves forward. It's like the first unstructured posession over and over, groundhog day meets anarchy.

When Pop said last year that he wanted to watch Wemby and "see what they had" rather than force a structure on him, that seemed like a great idea at the time. I didn't realize that it might be the whole plan this year and perhaps, even worse, going forward.

Maybe Wemby will never be able to get down low and be the center of the offense, but at least they should try before the status quo becomes the default norm.

https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=304426&p=11142915&viewfull=1#post11142915

Other than GS, every champion of the last 10 years has had a jumbo wing Alpha. It’s the thing now, like post bigs were 20 years ago. Wemby is a super sized Jumbo wing. He’s not a post player, and never will be. He lacks the bulk, and his center of gravity is too high. On that inbounds play against Grant,he was literally squatting to be able to hold his ground. That’s not a viable play. He can score in the paint by cutting and flashing to the rim, and rolling more often after the pick.

[spursparker9]

We can fix it by getting Flagg

[spursparker9]

Well, here's the answer on accountability I guess. At this point, we all just need to hope he develops into Steph, because that's the way he's gonna play.

1854889440121864510

At least Wemby and the Spurs coaching staff agree that we will go the anti ben simmons route.

If Wemby follow Ben Simmons, then he is potential become Shawn Bradley

[SpursBills]

No way current spurs' situation resembles Lebron's first stint in Cleveland - that team was done as soon as Luke Jackson got drafted and Boozer walked. Spurs also have way more high value picks in coming years to restock with and their existing young talent base of Vassell, Sochan, and Castle outstrips anything the Cavs had at any point during Lebron's first stint, with 2 potential lottery picks in a stacked draft coming up.

We're not that far off from an OKC trajectory - 2 20 win seasons after getting a year 2 SGA followed by a 40 win season and then 57 wins after that season. So far, without Vassell and with Sochan this is probably a 35 win team with lots of potential for growth with Castle's anticipated improvement in the coming years.

Wemby's doing just fine defensively. Offensively, there's a couple issues at play:

One is that honestly, Wemby's just not as polished offensively as a lot of the other elite prospect candidates. You look at guys like Lebron, KD, and Luka, and realize that these guys were way more polished offensively even coming into the league. Tighter handles and/or better shots or in Lebron's case, was both stronger and faster than everyone else. Wemby's GOAT prospect candidacy comes from his combination of potential GOAT defensive impact and elite offense. If you were judging him just on offense alone, he's probably not quite on the same level as some of those other guys coming into the league even though he waffle crushes them defensively, so it might take him more time to figure things out.

Two is fatigue, partially from adjusting game plans and partially from olympic game play.

Three is playstyle - for some reason even though he has the build and mobility more closely resembling late-career KD (efficiently getting to his spots, 1-2 dribbles and rise into an unblockable catch and shoot), he really wants to play like early-career KD (trying to break guys down off the dribble). It may be that as time goes on he figures out why KD adjusted his style of play and will do so in turn.

Fourth is a shift in the offense - Wemby was at his best last season toward the end when the Spurs basically ran a Wemby-centric motion offense. Chris Paul changes that a little bit so he's probably not getting the same opportunities as he did last season.

As to what to do for this season, maybe if Milwaukee implodes and Giannis demands a trade, the Spurs try and revisit the Middleton idea as a guy who can add both shooting, creation, and veteran leadership for the new couple seasons. Maybe for Keldon/Collins and 2 decent 1st rounders (Bulls, 2027 Hawks?)
Castle, Vassell, Middleton, Sochan/2025 draft pick (McNeeley, Kneuppel, etc), Wembanyama is a lineup that gives you potentially decent spacing and doesn't give up a whole lot on the defensive end.

[Chinook]

I think the whole point of what Scott is getting at is a lot of these "growing pains" only exist because of the how the team is built around him,

Scott's argument is not complex. It's just wrong. It's built on the bad assumption that there's some place Wemby NEEDS to be. He's refused to recalibrate his projection of Wemby and is struggling to explain why Wemby isn't being who he (Scott) wants him to be. No one should care how Wemby compares to an arbitrary collection of players. Wemby has to learn to play with others, and there are growing pains because that's not Wemby's natural inclination on the court. Yes, I personally believe that restricting Wemby's offensive touches would put him on a better track. I think we've seen games where Victor seems to take that step back so Paul can guide him -- the way a young big should. But recently, he's reverted more to the attempts at self-creation that are low-percentage, especially without Sochan next to him to do some of the center stuff Victor struggles with.

An example of this is how many people bring up spacing as an issue without actually thinking about it. If a defense is considering sending a double team, there are two main factors to consider. The first is the one folks are talking about here, which is the risk. Like, what are they giving up when they choose to send help. Too many people assume the answer has to be some three-point shot and think the Spurs lack of elite shooting means that this factor is always low. That's not actually true, though, in large part because the Spurs don't have as many bad shooters as assumed but more because the Spurs can space the floor by sending rim pressure, which we saw mostly with Sochan but also see with Johnson. Teams as willing to leave a good shooter in Barnes open in order to not come off Sochan at the rim. That is huge for spacing, and a Victor who knew what to do against help would've hit Harrison for an open corner-three on that famous play.

That Wemby instead flubbed up a turnover leads me into the second factor that doesn't get talked about enough. Teams currently know doubling Wemby is a high-reward proposition because of how bad Vic's handles are and how reluctant he is to pass when he's not already comfortable with his scoring production. That Wemby is so easy to rattle and turn over by sending help is the real issue leading to him getting swarmed, not the spacing. In an ideal world, you limit those opportunities to situations where he actually has an advantage. You coach him to use give-and-gos to get him the ball going downhill toward the rum. You teach him basically to not put the ball on the floor and to keep it high when he catches it and to go for the finish as soon as he gets the ball rather than trying to iso. Then if he doesn't get the ball back, you tell him to cut through and come around to set a screen rather than sitting in the paint calling for the ball while a wing shoves him across the court.

But that's not how Wemby WANTS to play. It's not the Wemby is being "used wrong". It's that he doesn't want to be "used right". He wants to be a perimeter player ... and he's not good at it. There are specific situations where it can work. However, those are situations the Spurs can control, because other teams have learned how to exploit Wemby's biggest weakness by just guarding him with a wing. It should be a pretty rule to understand that if he's being guarded by a center to space out and drive and if he's being guarded by a wing to run screens and look for quick-hitters.

Scott made a list of a bunch of perimeter players who came into the league with at least the rough skill-set to play the way they felt comfortable. Wemby isn't even a passable perimeter creator now. Maybe he will be. His recent quotes suggests he does. If that's the case, he's going to have to develop rather than just acclimate. So given what roadmap he's taken and the league having a year to develop their counter-move, Wemby's right about where you'd expect him to be. He's not where I want him to be. But I don't have the same hope for apotheosis that Scott does. I don't care if Wemby becomes a GOAT candidate. I care that he becomes a guy who can lead to the Spurs getting more titles. If you do believe in him becoming that unicorn, though, then you have to give him the time and struggle to bridge that gap. He is NOT as far along as some want him to be. That doesn't require any blame.

It's not Sochan's fault. It's not Castle's fault. Trying to blame guys like Keldon and Collins for it is unhinged. No star is being held back by bench players. This is arguably the most talented Spurs team since 2019-2020 (basically the tail end of LMA and Gay as good players. Even down multiple key rotation players, they have a chance to be a .500 team 10 games into the season. If they can beat Utah tomorrow, they face a really important benchmark for the team in Monday's game against SAC. They've only gotten past 10 games at or over .500 twice since Kawhi was traded. That was 18/19 and 20/21. Who the Spurs are going to be this year has not been defined yet. They win that game, they have a real chance at being a play-in contender. With how badly Wemby has struggled this year (his on-off is only plus-1, ahead of only Sochan among starters), it's hard not to see that as a huge credit to the team as a whole.

There's not a magic excuse for why Wemby's struggling that doesn't involve Victor accepting his limitations.

[Chinook]

Other than GS, every champion of the last 10 years has had a jumbo wing Alpha. It’s the thing now, like post bigs were 20 years ago. Wemby is a super sized Jumbo wing. He’s not a post player, and never will be. He lacks the bulk, and his center of gravity is too high. On that inbounds play against Grant,he was literally squatting to be able to hold his ground. That’s not a viable play. He can score in the paint by cutting and flashing to the rim, and rolling more often after the pick.

I think he has to play more like Curry and less like Lillard. Dame is often consider the best of the knock-off Stephs, but in reality they get shots from similar spots in very different ways. In that regard, I think Wemby can get a bunch of high-quality touches in the post, but he can't do that and iso his man at the same time.

[scott]

Once again a fundamental failure of understanding by Chinook to form the basis of one of his long non sequiturs.

Chinook babbles:


Scott's argument is not complex. It's just wrong. It's built on the bad assumption that there's some place Wemby NEEDS to be. He's refused to recalibrate his projection of Wemby and is struggling to explain why Wemby isn't being who he (Scott) wants him to be. No one should care how Wemby compares to an arbitrary collection of players.

Wemby isn't being compared to an players other than himself nor to do I want him to be anything other than a player who is improving. Wemby is not improving offensively, in fact he is rapidly regressing, to the point where he seems disengaged and uninterested in the offense.

Oddly, Chinook then goes on to basically agree with the premise:


Wemby has to learn to play with others, and there are growing pains because that's not Wemby's natural inclination on the court. Yes, I personally believe that restricting Wemby's offensive touches would put him on a better track. I think we've seen games where Victor seems to take that step back so Paul can guide him -- the way a young big should. But recently, he's reverted more to the attempts at self-creation that are low-percentage, especially without Sochan next to him to do some of the center stuff Victor struggles with.

So here we are, Chinook blatantly acknowledging the premise he claims is wrong. It's almost as though Chinook just has some weird fetish debating positions he just makes up. Not a new thing we've seen from Mr. Chinook.

Chinook then goes on to list a litany of problems with Wemby's play that should, could and would be corrected, addressed or mitigated if team made an effort to do so. But then he waves his hand and says that it's okay because "Wemby doesn't want to play that way" as though Wemby is a spoiled child at playtime who needs to be coddled and not a professional basketball player. I wonder how 1997 Pop would have reacted if Tim Duncan came in and said "but I want to be Jordan!" Would not have flown, but apparently Wemby can just choose to want to engage in a Durant cosplay and it's all okay because that's what Wemby wants.


Scott made a list of a bunch of perimeter players who came into the league with at least the rough skill-set to play the way they felt comfortable.

False. I made a list of 20-year old blue-chip prospects who improved in their sophomore year to combat your braindead suggestion that Wemby's regression was "what he is supposed to do".


I don't care if Wemby becomes a GOAT candidate. I care that he becomes a guy who can lead to the Spurs getting more titles.

Again, a strawman created out of whole cloth to debate a point no one is making. We all only care that he becomes a guy who can lead the Spurs to getting more titles. That's the point. His regression into a low-efficiency chucker isn't what is going to lead the Spurs to more titles.


It's not Sochan's fault. It's not Castle's fault. Trying to blame guys like Keldon and Collins for it is unhinged. No star is being held back by bench players. This is arguably the most talented Spurs team since 2019-2020 (basically the tail end of LMA and Gay as good players. Even down multiple key rotation players, they have a chance to be a .500 team 10 games into the season. If they can beat Utah tomorrow, they face a really important benchmark for the team in Monday's game against SAC. They've only gotten past 10 games at or over .500 twice since Kawhi was traded. That was 18/19 and 20/21. Who the Spurs are going to be this year has not been defined yet. They win that game, they have a real chance at being a play-in contender. With how badly Wemby has struggled this year (his on-off is only plus-1, ahead of only Sochan among starters), it's hard not to see that as a huge credit to the team as a whole.

Imagine writing all of this nonsense and then having the gall to make the statement that "if they win the 11th game of the season, the have a real chance to be a play-in contender". Just capping off one of the most disingenuous posts you've ever made with one of the dumbest statements you've ever made.


There's not a magic excuse for why Wemby's struggling that doesn't involve Victor accepting his limitations.

You might have missed all the talk of accountability in this thread, quite conveniently. This is all about Victor accepting his limitations. Right now this team doesn't have enough people who will drive the accountability required for Victor to accept those limitations. He's been given the green light to do whatever he wants, and that is a major cause of his regression on the offensive end. Our coaching staff has apparently granted this green light. CP3 might be the only guy on the team who drive accountability, but he's only one player. The entire point here is instead of this "let's just see what we have approach", we could have surrounded Wemby with a team of players who, for lack of a better way of saying, wouldn't put up with this shit.

For all the talk from Wemby's own mouth about "wanting to be coached hard" it seems like the franchise has taken the exact opposite approach... let's just let lil' Victor play the way he wants to play and see what happens!

[skin27]

FWIW I went and pulled the first 9 games for each of these players. Not commenting on it, just to add to the conversation.

Lebron Rookie Season - 39.5 mpg, 20.9 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 5.9 apg, 1.6 spg, 0.7 bpg, 3.5 topg, 1.9 fpg, 41.7/29.0/75.4 splits
Lebron First 9 Sophomore - 42.0 mpg, 27.1 ppg, 8.2 rpg, 5.7 apg, 2.2 spg, 1.3 bpg, 3.3 topg, 1.0 fpg, 48.9/36.7/75.6 splits

KD Rookie Season - 34.6 mpg, 20.3 ppg, 4.4 rpg, 2.4 apg, 1.0 spg, 0.9 bpg, 2.9 topg, 1.5 fpg, 43.0/28.8/87.3 splits
KD First 9 Sophomore - 35.0 mpg, 21.1 ppg, 4.1 rpg, 1.9 apg, 0.8 spg, 0.7 bpg, 3.3 topg, 1.6 fpg, 43.0/30.0/83.0 splits

Luka Rookie Season - 32.2 mpg, 21.2 ppg, 7.8 rpg, 6.0 apg, 1.1 spg, 0.3 bpg, 3.4 topg, 1.9 fpg, 42.7/32.7/71.3 splits
Luka First 9 Sophomore - 34.9 mpg, 27.7 ppg, 10.8 rpg, 9.1 apg, 1.2 spg, 0.1 bpg, 4.9 topg, 2.6 fpg, 48.0/32.1/83.6 splits

Ant Rookie Season - 32.1 mpg, 19.3 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 2.9 apg, 1.1 spg, 0.5 bpg, 2.2 topg, 1.8 fpg, 41.7/32.9/77.6 splits
Ant First 9 Sophomore - 36.1 mpg, 23.4 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 3.3 apg, 1.6 spg, 0.6 bpg, 3.0 topg, 2.3 fpg, 40.8/31.4/77.4 splits

Wemby Rookie Season - 29.7 mpg, 21.4 ppg, 10.6 rpg, 3.9 apg, 1.2 spg, 3.6 bpg, 3.7 topg, 2.2 fpg, 46.5/32.5/79.6 splits
Wemby First 9 Sophomore - 30.8 mpg, 17.7 ppg, 9.6 rpg, 2.7 apg, 1.6 spg, 3.7 bpg, 3.4 topg, 1.9 fpg, 41.3/22.6/91.2 splits

Wemby’s minutes needs to increase

[Chomag]

Wemby should be at least at 34 minutes a game, and that's still being the lowest played among the top players in their sophomore season

[jmard5]

Failed Wemby? On his 2nd year? Didn't we see similar skepticism surrounding Sochan's early PG role and FT struggles?

Trust the process.

[tbdog]

Watching Holgren play an effective and simple role, and probably wcf inbound at that. I understand the patience for Spurs is filled with jealousy. But let's see what the team looks like at full strength. Spurs will start adding playoff pieces next season regardless.

[poopbox]

Scott's argument is not complex. It's just wrong. It's built on the bad assumption that there's some place Wemby NEEDS to be. He's refused to recalibrate his projection of Wemby and is struggling to explain why Wemby isn't being who he (Scott) wants him to be. No one should care how Wemby compares to an arbitrary collection of players. Wemby has to learn to play with others, and there are growing pains because that's not Wemby's natural inclination on the court. Yes, I personally believe that restricting Wemby's offensive touches would put him on a better track. I think we've seen games where Victor seems to take that step back so Paul can guide him -- the way a young big should. But recently, he's reverted more to the attempts at self-creation that are low-percentage, especially without Sochan next to him to do some of the center stuff Victor struggles with.

An example of this is how many people bring up spacing as an issue without actually thinking about it. If a defense is considering sending a double team, there are two main factors to consider. The first is the one folks are talking about here, which is the risk. Like, what are they giving up when they choose to send help. Too many people assume the answer has to be some three-point shot and think the Spurs lack of elite shooting means that this factor is always low. That's not actually true, though, in large part because the Spurs don't have as many bad shooters as assumed but more because the Spurs can space the floor by sending rim pressure, which we saw mostly with Sochan but also see with Johnson. Teams as willing to leave a good shooter in Barnes open in order to not come off Sochan at the rim. That is huge for spacing, and a Victor who knew what to do against help would've hit Harrison for an open corner-three on that famous play.

That Wemby instead flubbed up a turnover leads me into the second factor that doesn't get talked about enough. Teams currently know doubling Wemby is a high-reward proposition because of how bad Vic's handles are and how reluctant he is to pass when he's not already comfortable with his scoring production. That Wemby is so easy to rattle and turn over by sending help is the real issue leading to him getting swarmed, not the spacing. In an ideal world, you limit those opportunities to situations where he actually has an advantage. You coach him to use give-and-gos to get him the ball going downhill toward the rum. You teach him basically to not put the ball on the floor and to keep it high when he catches it and to go for the finish as soon as he gets the ball rather than trying to iso. Then if he doesn't get the ball back, you tell him to cut through and come around to set a screen rather than sitting in the paint calling for the ball while a wing shoves him across the court.

But that's not how Wemby WANTS to play. It's not the Wemby is being "used wrong". It's that he doesn't want to be "used right". He wants to be a perimeter player ... and he's not good at it. There are specific situations where it can work. However, those are situations the Spurs can control, because other teams have learned how to exploit Wemby's biggest weakness by just guarding him with a wing. It should be a pretty rule to understand that if he's being guarded by a center to space out and drive and if he's being guarded by a wing to run screens and look for quick-hitters.

Scott made a list of a bunch of perimeter players who came into the league with at least the rough skill-set to play the way they felt comfortable. Wemby isn't even a passable perimeter creator now. Maybe he will be. His recent quotes suggests he does. If that's the case, he's going to have to develop rather than just acclimate. So given what roadmap he's taken and the league having a year to develop their counter-move, Wemby's right about where you'd expect him to be. He's not where I want him to be. But I don't have the same hope for apotheosis that Scott does. I don't care if Wemby becomes a GOAT candidate. I care that he becomes a guy who can lead to the Spurs getting more titles. If you do believe in him becoming that unicorn, though, then you have to give him the time and struggle to bridge that gap. He is NOT as far along as some want him to be. That doesn't require any blame.

It's not Sochan's fault. It's not Castle's fault. Trying to blame guys like Keldon and Collins for it is unhinged. No star is being held back by bench players. This is arguably the most talented Spurs team since 2019-2020 (basically the tail end of LMA and Gay as good players. Even down multiple key rotation players, they have a chance to be a .500 team 10 games into the season. If they can beat Utah tomorrow, they face a really important benchmark for the team in Monday's game against SAC. They've only gotten past 10 games at or over .500 twice since Kawhi was traded. That was 18/19 and 20/21. Who the Spurs are going to be this year has not been defined yet. They win that game, they have a real chance at being a play-in contender. With how badly Wemby has struggled this year (his on-off is only plus-1, ahead of only Sochan among starters), it's hard not to see that as a huge credit to the team as a whole.

There's not a magic excuse for why Wemby's struggling that doesn't involve Victor accepting his limitations.

Yeah I think you just don't fundamentally understand modern basketball. It's like you've spent years only watching two nba teams, the spurs, and the team the spurs play that night.

Statements like "it's not castle's fault" is just downright idiotic. Castle is shooting 12% from 3. 12. You cannot effectively run any real type of offense when a guy who has the ball somewhere between "some" and "alot for certain stints" because any screen set for him just results in the guy guarding him doing literally anything but guarding Castle on the perimeter. Virtually every time Victor sets a screen for Castle all that happens is that Castle's man just doubles Victor and Castle is just standing their by himself then either shoots a missed 3, has to move it back out to reset the entire offense, or try and force his way to the rim through at least 2 defenders. None of those 3 things are ideal. Now Castle is just a rookie and we knew coming into the league his shooting would probably be bad but holy shit this guy is legit one of the 20 worst shooters in the entire nba from outside the paint. He can't be THAT BAD. Because when you are that bad that means the other guys is mostly not guarding you. When he is not guarding you he is doing other stuff like jumping into passing lanes, or shading players a certain direction into help defense, or just straight up doubling another player to try and deny him the ball, or crashing the offensive glass because he doesn't have any real defensive responsibility. All of these are real basketball problems that the spurs have to deal with, that primarily exist because they play a guy around 20 min a game who shoots 12% from 3.

[RC_Drunkford]

Wemby should be at least at 34 minutes a game, and that's still being the lowest played among the top players in their sophomore season

he can't. He's tired after 5 minutes

[polandprzem]

he can't. He's tired after 5 minutes

haha I like when you throwing that in almost every occasion

[Fireball]

well he is right ... when he can play 30 minutes without huffing and puffing all the time you can play him 35 minutes

[DAF86]

We didn't fail him by not having an all-star level player alongside him, we failed him by not coaching him. Imagine prime Pop putting up with a 20% shooter taking half his shots (ill adviced shots at that) from the 3pts line.

He could also realize it himself, but either Wemby isn't as smart as he sold us, or the coaching stuff is forcing him to do it for some strange reason.

Wemby taking half his shots from the 3pt line after seemingly having figured out how he needs to play halfway through his rookie season is a very unexpected and dissapointing development. Thankfully it's the easiest fix in the World. Or at least I hope so. I want to believe he won't keep playing this deaf tone style for much longer, I just hope he snaps out of it before having the entire NBA World start clowning on him.

[heyheymymy]

https://x.com/spursreporter/status/1854887722827071590?s

[tbdog]

The rumour last year was Wemby is extremely patient. That quote confirms that.

[rankingtear]

They are still treating this as a development year. Wemby is fully onboard with the experimentation it seems. Spot up situations is the weakest part of his game last season and they giving him more reps this year. At the cost of accolades, criticism and fans sanity.

[ambchang]

I agree I think without Victor this is arguably the worst roster in the nba.

I give Sochan almost no credit for his numbers he is being spoon fed those stats by Victor.
Not only is Tre small, unathletic, and can't / won't shoot, but the number one thing he does do, have a good assist to turnover ratio, is something no one really cares about anymore, because his brother year and year out has one of the best assist to turnover ratio's in the league, and he is currently playing on a 1 year 3 million dollar deal because nobody cares about guards who don't do anything but make safe plays because they are scared of turning the ball over.

I have been disappointed with Barnes. He has not been nearly aggressive enough looking for his own shot. However, the Kings were so desperate to get rid of him they gave us a future first round pick, so when a team is that desperate to move on from a player, the player might not be that good anymore.

Remember, the Kings are a team trying to make the playoffs. After they lost to the pelicans in the play in they stepped back and looked at their team and said "You know how we are going to get better as a team and make the playoffs, by getting Harrison Barnes out of here for somebody better".

Barns done Cedi Osmaned us :lol

Tyus jones is the main reason Phoenix is killing it. His ball handling the floor leadership is allowing booker, KD and Beal to be freed up and finish plays, which is what they are good at.

Phoenix has turned from a 1st round fodder to a strong contender because of Tyus.

Just watch a few of their games this season compare to last year and the difference is obvious.

[Bill_Brasky]

It's fucking hilarious that yall have the audacity to call people "sniffers" with the amount of excuses yall make for Victor. Dude isn't playing well. Period. That's his own damn fault and he needs to get better. I'm willing to give him some grace on it though because he had a long summer.

[rankingtear]

We didn't fail him by not having an all-star level player alongside him, we failed him by not coaching him. Imagine prime Pop putting up with a 20% shooter taking half his shots (ill adviced shots at that) from the 3pts line.

He could also realize it himself, but either Wemby isn't as smart as he sold us, or the coaching stuff is forcing him to do it for some strange reason.

Wemby taking half his shots from the 3pt line after seemingly having figured out how he needs to play halfway through his rookie season is a very unexpected and dissapointing development. Thankfully it's the easiest fix in the World. Or at least I hope so. I want to believe he won't keep playing this deaf tone style for much longer, I just hope he snaps out of it before having the entire NBA World start clowning on him.

But image how good he could be with an above average catch and shoot 3 pointer. That opens up the pick and pop and the ability to attack closeouts. Easy points he could get and not be gassed trying to wrestle position in the post. I think that is worth people clowning on him in his second season.

[exstatic]

Tyus jones is the main reason Phoenix is killing it. His ball handling the floor leadership is allowing booker, KD and Beal to be freed up and finish plays, which is what they are good at.

Phoenix has turned from a 1st round fodder to a strong contender because of Tyus.

Just watch a few of their games this season compare to last year and the difference is obvious.

And they’re paying him like $3

[exstatic]

But image how good he could be with an above average catch and shoot 3 pointer. That opens up the pick and pop and the ability to attack closeouts. Easy points he could get and not be gassed trying to wrestle position in the post. I think that is worth people clowning on him in his second season.

He’s not gassed from posting up,he’s gassed from simply running up and down the floor.

[rankingtear]

He’s not gassed from posting up,he’s gassed from simply running up and down the floor.

Fighting for position and running is more tiring than just running though.

[LeBowen]

But image how good he could be with an above average catch and shoot 3 pointer. That opens up the pick and pop and the ability to attack closeouts. Easy points he could get and not be gassed trying to wrestle position in the post. I think that is worth people clowning on him in his second season.

We have to wait and see if things change when Devin returns.
CP3/Devin/Champ/Barnes/Wemby has amazing spacing. Four perimeter players that are above average shooters.
If Wemby still doesn't get enough inside touches even with that lineup, then we have a problem.

[Dejounte]

Chinook presented a nuanced position with many layers and reasons behind his thought process. Other people’s point is to just say, “yOu DoNt KnOw ModErN BaSkEtBalL” and make long paragraphs about one counting stat. I think we know who’s winning this debate. I don’t have a horse in this race because I’m exercising patience. There are more signs that the failures so far is due to Wemby than it is the roster (especially with 2-3 major key players out) or coaching staff, but I’m not going to make conclusions yet until after 10 more games. That is the sane position, I think.

[Dejounte]

We have to wait and see if things change when Devin returns.
CP3/Devin/Champ/Barnes/Wemby has amazing spacing. Four perimeter players that are above average shooters.
If Wemby still doesn't get enough inside touches even with that lineup, then we have a problem.

It isn’t about Wemby getting touches inside because of the players he’s surrounded with, it’s about Wemby wanting touches inside. He doesn’t want it right now because he wants to be a dynamic unicorn, something the NBA has never seen.

[LeBowen]

It isn’t about Wemby getting touches inside because of the players he’s surrounded with, it’s about Wemby wanting touches inside. He doesn’t want it right now because he wants to be a dynamic unicorn, something the NBA has never seen.

He had plenty of perimeter touches last season, it's just that easy points in the paint have dried up.
Yes, he's in the paint way less often, but let's not pretend that he gets the ball enough. He doesn't get it in the post and then just goes to the corner. Idk by who's design.

As I wrote yesterday, the only thing I really dislike is him handling the ball against wings and guards. Way too easy to strip him and those possessions are all over the place. He shouldn't be isoing anyone other than slow bigs, he's not beating wings on the perimeter.

And again, Wemby definitely isn't the type to go against coach's wishes, him jacking up so many 3pts is by design. We'll see the situation at the end of this homestand, but if we're not at .500 or one game below, expect another I'd say 27-32 wins season, enough for 3rd worst record in the West.

[Dejounte]

Of course it’s by design, but this is no one-way street without the player’s feedback. Wemby and other players have made it known that the coaching staff allows the players to “be themselves”. They designed the offense this way because Wemby told them he’d like to develop or have perimeter scoring as a major component of his game. That’s it. They’re not going to go against the franchise player’s wishes. Wemby’s going to either learn the hard way that this style isn’t for him or we’re going to see an evolution of his game. Whatever happens from either is beneficial for his long term outlook.

[Fireball]

Fighting for position and running is more tiring than just running though.

This

[skin27]

Wemby’s minutes needs to increase


It isn’t about Wemby getting touches inside because of the players he’s surrounded with, it’s about Wemby wanting touches inside. He doesn’t want it right now because he wants to be a dynamic unicorn, something the NBA has never seen.
Agree with this.

[quentin_compson]

I kind of understand the coaching staff's reluctance to boxing in Wemby. There has never really been a player with his physical attributes, so it's not like there is a blueprint to follow. Just saying "Wemby is a center and will play like one", for example, would be silly, so some experimentation is not only fine but probably inevitable.

On the other hand, I don't quite get what Wemby randomly chucking lots of threes is supposed to accomplish either for him or the team. It's not like players will magically become good shooters just by jacking up as many shots as possible. Sure, maybe it's just a phase and Wemby and the coaches will decide to tone it down or go away from it after like 20 games. But right now, it's kind of the opposite of what Pop said in the quote someone posted in this thread where he talks about Wemby playing closer to the basket or more on the perimeter "depending upon the situation". Mostly it seems just like freestyling. There is often so little cohesive basketball and offensive structure to be seen from the Spurs right now, and I just don't see how this helps anybody's development either individually or on a team level.

Then again, the "longer term goals" mentioned in this other quote might be something along the lines of "Slowly trying to establish a team competing for a Playoff spot once the 20131 pick comes around" ...

[exstatic]

Fighting for position and running is more tiring than just running though.

That wasn’t what you said, though


… and not be gassed trying to wrestle position in the post.…

No mention of running at all, which is the primary culprit.

[skin27]

One question is can Bricktor score 30pts this season? The way he’s playing right now i think its a long shot

[Russ]

It isn’t about Wemby getting touches inside because of the players he’s surrounded with, it’s about Wemby wanting touches inside. He doesn’t want it right now because he wants to be a dynamic unicorn, something the NBA has never seen.

If he wants to be a unicorn, he's only a unicorn down low -- dunking like an alien over guys who have position between him and the basket. Doing it taking off seven feet away from the basket.

That gets you Sportscenter highlights, not nonchalantly hitting vanilla threes that every player in the NBA has made at some point. That's not unicorn.

[The Truth #6]

Before Pop was too controlling. It seems he has learned to adapt to that part at least around superstar players.

I also think the league has figured out better how to guard him, considering he wants to dribble the ball out on the perimeter, so putting a physical small forward on him is a smart choice.

VW definitely looks tired out there, and for whatever reason less motivated at times, or at least more frustrated.

Chet is getting more attention now. Maybe that will add some fire.

[Pauleta14]

Watching Holgren play an effective and simple role, and probably wcf inbound at that. I understand the patience for Spurs is filled with jealousy. But let's see what the team looks like at full strength. Spurs will start adding playoff pieces next season regardless.

I wouldn't be that confident.

It looks like a much longer process than we hoped but they can't admit it publicly.

Next season we'll have at least 2 new propects to develop added to an already young roster minus cp3

We're not playing in the weak eastern conf

[Pauleta14]

he can't. He's tired after 5 minutes

Why is he?

We've seen him play entire 4th quarters last season.

Shouldn't the staff try to force a bit to help his body get used to? At least try 10' in the 1st qt once in a while no?

[Pauleta14]

Chinook (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=37557) presented a nuanced position with many layers and reasons behind his thought process. Other people’s point is to just say, “yOu DoNt KnOw ModErN BaSkEtBalL” and make long paragraphs about one counting stat. I think we know who’s winning this debate. I don’t have a horse in this race because I’m exercising patience. There are more signs that the failures so far is due to Wemby than it is the roster (especially with 2-3 major key players out) or coaching staff, but I’m not going to make conclusions yet until after 10 more games. That is the sane position, I think.

Chinnok made good points, imo the issue is that he seems to have a definitive opinion and argued based on it.

For most of us the reality is a lot more nuanced, it's not an individual sport so you can't supress +50% (his teammates part) just to focus on Wemby's issues and not the impact his teammates or coach have had on said issues.

What seperates us is just the % we attribute to Wemby and the % we attribute to the coaching and roster.

Tbh I'm still agnostic in that regard even if I lean toward a 40% on Wemby 60% on coaches/roster

[Mr. Body]

Before Pop was too controlling. It seems he has learned to adapt to that part at least around superstar players.

I also think the league has figured out better how to guard him, considering he wants to dribble the ball out on the perimeter, so putting a physical small forward on him is a smart choice.

VW definitely looks tired out there, and for whatever reason less motivated at times, or at least more frustrated.

Chet is getting more attention now. Maybe that will add some fire.

Chet has a high level playoff team with a MVP candidate built around him. His role is narrowly defined and they're set to get him points because of the gravity of other players. Don't worry about it.

[LeBowen]

Chet has a high level playoff team with a MVP candidate built around him. His role is narrowly defined and they're set to get him points because of the gravity of other players. Don't worry about it.

Chet is a human version of what some spurstalk want Wemby to be.
Rim protection, decent rebounding, ability to find the open man, vertical threat and a decent 3pt shooter.

He's got no playmaking or self-creating skills whatsoever.
Not to mention that even though Wemby has obvious issues against stronger bigs, Chet becomes a non-factor in those scenarios.
Just watch the Nuggets game from the other day. Jokic rebounded and scored on the inside as if Chet wasn't even on the floor.
Not to mention how Mavs bullied him with their average bigs.

A great player to have as a second/third option, but I'm not sure he'll ever be good enough to be a #1 guy.

[Sugus]

Jesus, we have baby Jordan at home and yall can't sit through some growing pains.

Be thankful to be witnesses, and let the story unfold. We Spurs fans should know it may not last forever.

[RC_Drunkford]

why are people saying he had a long summer? Are the Olympics longer than the playoffs?

[RC_Drunkford]

Why is he?

We've seen him play entire 4th quarters last season.

Shouldn't the staff try to force a bit to help his body get used to? At least try 10' in the 1st qt once in a while no?

well they should've taken care of that during training camp. Instead Pop babied him and played him a combined what? 20 minutes in 2 preseason games?

[ambchang]

And they’re paying him like $3

Great deal. Point still remains that guards do make a difference.

I won’t even get into the sochan comment because that is just pure ignorance.

[tbdog]

Jesus, we have baby Jordan at home and yall can't sit through some growing pains.

Be thankful to be witnesses, and let the story unfold. We Spurs fans should know it may not last forever.

I think the issue is that we saw the blueprint how Wemby should be used. The last three to two months were absurd for a rookie. That blueprint that took down the nuggets on the second last game of the season. We saw it and thought now we added better players around him. Wemby was going to be a top 15 player in the league on season 2.

But what we've been getting is that first quarter of his rookie season Wemby. But the scouting reports are out and the spurs are giving what the defenses want.

[Sugus]

I think the issue is that we saw the blueprint how Wemby should be used. The last three to two months were absurd for a rookie. That blueprint that took down the nuggets on the second last game of the season. We saw it and thought now we added better players around him. Wemby was going to be a top 15 player in the league on season 2.

But what we've been getting is that first quarter of his rookie season Wemby. But the scouting reports are out and the spurs are giving what the defenses want.

The fact that we have already seen the success of the "blueprint" is why all the B&M is so puzzling. Like this isn't some "OMG is Wemby a bust??" type regression, everyone saw what he can do already.

He is now choosing to force a specific aspect of his game he wants to develop, to his game's detriment which he and the coaching staff are expecting and aware of, and people doubt if he'll ever bounce back? Like we haven't all seen him play a completely different type of game through the Olympics like 1.5 months ago?

You would think Occam's Razor would hit people like Newton's apple and they'd figure it's more likely that he's forcing his development, instead of assuming that he's been Monstar-drained of his basketball talents in his sophomore season.

[Sugus]

And by the way, it all sounds veeery similar to the B&M last season about Jeremy "Not An NBA Player" Sochan.

And what do you know, the guy starts the next season with a much improved game and being a key piece to the team. Shocker!

[LeBowen]

And by the way, it all sounds veeery similar to the B&M last season about Jeremy "Not An NBA Player" Sochan.

And what do you know, the guy starts the next season with a much improved game and being a key piece to the team. Shocker!

The issue is that Jeremy was seen as someone who's not even guaranteed to become a legit player if we talk playoff rosters and Wemby is supposed to be on GOAT trajectory.
With that being said, anyone with doomer takes before 20 to 30 games is just overreacting or doing it out of boredom.

[Pauleta14]

well they should've taken care of that during training camp. Instead Pop babied him and played him a combined what? 20 minutes in 2 preseason games?

Could be the explanation, or not.

We don't know anything and can only guess/speculate really. + The lack of pre season games should have been erased 2-3 games into the season.

The datas (official weight) don't match the reality (Wemby's own words), nobody has any idea what they worked on and what specific area he's expected to have improved on.

He clearly didn't bulk up, so what did he work on??

I understand the lack of transparency in a competitive world, but too much isn't beneficial to Wemby, bc medias and fans seem to expect a lot moe than what's on PATFO's timeline.

There's a world where we might be unfair to Wemby who's just following PATFO's slower paced "strategy". I don't know tbh

[Sugus]

The issue is that Jeremy was seen as someone who's not even guaranteed to become a legit player if we talk playoff rosters and Wemby is supposed to be on GOAT trajectory.
With that being said, anyone with doomer takes before 20 to 30 games is just overreacting or doing it out of boredom.

That's only an issue because of people's perception and short-term narratives.

Whether you're a midget or baby Jordan, the development of basketball abilities tends to follow a very similar curve for most players (position specific, of course). There's not some "training regime for 5-star players" and some "Scrub Regime". Especially in this modern, homogeneous league. Most players practice the exact same way, but personal work ethic (eg Kobe, Giannis) and natural genetic talent (eg Jordan) simply separate the cream of the crop.

It's exactly why I'm drawing the parallel to Jeremy, who was also instructed to focus on a specific part of his game by the staff to the detriment of his overall short-term game. Now, tell me how many people have doubted he's an NBA/caliber player at any game of this season.

Agree with the last, btw, people just can't sit and wait these days.

[LeBowen]

It's exactly why I'm drawing the parallel to Jeremy, who was also instructed to focus on a specific part of his game by the staff to the detriment of his overall short-term game. Now, tell me how many people have doubted he's an NBA/caliber player at any game of this season.

For me the issue is that Jeremy was (and still is) a fundamentally flawed player and they chose to work on fixing those flaws.
Wemby looked like a borderline top10 player at the end of last season. He kept dominating even when other starters got shut down. He obviously had aspects of the game that needed work, but nothing was fundamentally broken.
Now he can't make three dribbles without being stripped. As I said, a lot of it is due to everyone realizing to just pressure him and guard him with forwards, but still.

As for the 3pts, he'd be unstoppable as a 35% shooter from regular 3pt range. The issue is that a lot of his 3pts are from Curry range.
I get the focus on shooting, but can he at least become reliable from normal range first? Then we can move into Curry territory.

[scott]

For me the issue is that Jeremy was (and still is) a fundamentally flawed player and they chose to work on fixing those flaws.
Wemby looked like a borderline top10 player at the end of last season. He kept dominating even when other starters got shut down. He obviously had aspects of the game that needed work, but nothing was fundamentally broken.
Now he can't make three dribbles without being stripped. As I said, a lot of it is due to everyone realizing to just pressure him and guard him with forwards, but still.

As for the 3pts, he'd be unstoppable as a 35% shooter from regular 3pt range. The issue is that a lot of his 3pts are from Curry range.
I get the focus on shooting, but can he at least become reliable from normal range first? Then we can move into Curry territory.

There is the interesting theory that perhaps the Spurs are engaging in another 20-game experiment... but I think this begs the question of "Why?". Why do the Spurs feel the need to engage in these long trial periods to test something that almost everyone can see going in (or very quickly into the experiment) isn't going to work. We didn't need 20 games to see if Sochan was a point guard. We don't need 20 games to see if Wemby is Steph Curry. What will start with next season? Finding out if Steph Castle can be our starting center?

Why can't these things be figured out in the off-season, in pre-season, or in practice? Does Wemby give some short of insane shooting signal in practice like being able to drain every three he takes from any spot on the court? Steph Curry was a 41% 3pt shooter in college - a natural indication that he can be a shooter of that nature in the pros. What has Wemby ever demonstrated to give us the indication that developing him into an early-shot clock logo 3 shooter is going to be successful? As LeBowen points out, Wemby being a 35% 3pt shooter on a normal, natural selection of 3pt shots would be huge. Him being a 35% 3pt shooter on the selection of shots he takes would take a miracle.

Why did the Spurs just punt on the pre-season with Wemby? Wouldn't that have been a good time to explore these things, fail fast, and move on?

So maybe we're fucking around for 20-games to find out whether or not Wemby is a ballerina... but why? Last year was supposed to be about "finding out what we have". I *thought* we had found out after the ASB that Wemby can be a dominant player with the style of ball they were playing with. So why did we pivot to trying to find out if he's something else entirely? Assume for a moment that Wemby was making 33% of his 3s this year, on all the exact same shots, instead of 21%. That still wouldn't be a better brand of basketball than what we closed last season with... so what's the objective to this experiment?

All indications from what is communicated through the media is that this isn't the plan. Wemby isn't going rogue, and the coaches aren't forcing him to do things he doesn't want to do - they are in this together. Who came up with this plan and WHY?

And this goes to the point of this entire thread. There is no one on this team to drive accountability and teach Wemby how to play the right way and be a franchise player. We can see with our own eyes the coaching staff isn't doing it. CP3 can be vocal about it in practice or on the sideline (and I hope he is) but how much impact does that have when he can't lead by example with his play. Wemby and the Spurs would have benefited from a vocal leader who can not just say what needs to be said, but go out there and demonstrate what to do with his own play. Leading by Example. Going over to Wemby after he goes 2-13 from the arc and saying "hey man... cut that shit out. I put up 27 and 9 last night, but we lost because you effectively had 14 turnovers between your bad shots and sloppy handles. Play to your strengths, stop trying to be an astronaut."

Maybe Wemby wouldn't respond well to this kind of tough love? Maybe the Spurs figured out that, despite his talk of wanting to be coached hard, that Wemby is actually sensitive little butterfly who needs to be coddled. Who knows. If that's the case, as least this shit would start to make sense.

There is one other explanation that fits... and that is that the Spurs are still committed to a soft tank and these 20-game experiments help set that up. I don't like this strategy, but at least it would make sense.

[Chinook]

Too much is being made of last year. Defenses have adjusted to that. Look at how many of his highlights last year came from him getting clean isos against opposing centers. That's not happening this year, and spacing has nothing to do with that. Victor struggles to beat wings off the dribble. That's true even in iso situations without help. He doesn't have the dribbling or girth to get from the arc to the rim. So any offense that is supposed to be built around Victor isoing from the perimeter just isn't going to work. It's fine if it's something he does when he's hot or has an advantage/mismatch. As I said, that one play against OKC was actually great if Wemby throws to to Barnes for the open three. But Victor's evolution should be primarily as an off-ball guy who plays on the ball as a change of pace,

But again, it's not what he wants to do. It may or may not be what the Spurs ideally want. He wants to develop his on-ball game as his primary weapon, and he's getting his chance to do just that. And there are growing pains. He's not Lebron. He's not Doncic. He's not KD. He's a very different kind of player who's nonetheless on track. If the plan was for him to become more and more productive each year (which for the record would've been my plan), then he would have a lot fewer shot attempts but much better efficiency. That's within his power, but it requires commitment and a certain mentality. Maybe if the team can get fully healthy and Vassell and Paul take up the bulk of the on-ball touches with the starters and Jones solidifies the second unit, Wemby will be content to play more in the role that best suits his immediate success.

Two other things:

1) Wemby doesn't have to shoot a bunch of threes in a game to eventually become a good shooter from distance. He can totally take the ones he naturally gets in the flow of the offense while cutting out the iso attempts and get plenty of complimentary in-game experience.

2) Wemby still wastes a ton of energy on both ends of the court. He has to get low to set screens, box out, or get/hold post position. That's going to be really tiring, but a lot of that is necessary. Sprinting down the court ahead of the ball or setting up in the post early isn't nearly as necessary.

[RC_Drunkford]

I think the issue is that we saw the blueprint how Wemby should be used. The last three to two months were absurd for a rookie. That blueprint that took down the nuggets on the second last game of the season. We saw it and thought now we added better players around him. Wemby was going to be a top 15 player in the league on season 2.

But what we've been getting is that first quarter of his rookie season Wemby. But the scouting reports are out and the spurs are giving what the defenses want.

teams have adjusted to that blueprint. If you look at tape from last season you mainly see Wemby going 1-on-1 against centers. That’s where he has an advantage with his handles, etc. Being guarded by wings and double/triple teamed is a whole different ball game

[Pauleta14]

teams have adjusted to that blueprint. If you look at tape from last season you mainly see Wemby going 1-on-1 against centers. That’s where he has an advantage with his handles, etc. Being guarded by wings and double/triple teamed is a whole different ball game

True

But it should be added that he can't or just isn't being used as a hub/playmaker anymore. The ball used to always go through him, we're back to pre ASG attitude from his teammates.

It's a combinaison of many things, not just one cause

[The Truth #6]

For me, to try and simplify, there are two things different with VW:

1. He's forcing shots.
2. He obviously looks tired.

Hard to say if there is a cause effect between the two. In other words, let's say he is working on part of his game purposefully, is THAT why he looks so tired? Or is he just tired, and jacking up easy shots?

[TDMVPDPOY]

looks tired...but loves chucking up 3s not drawing any fouls to keep teh defense honest...

[skin27]

looks tired...but loves chucking up 3s not drawing any fouls to keep teh defense honest...


yup wemby needs to kearn how to draw a goul and get to the line consistently. 8 to 10 freethrow attempts will help his scoring

[CorrectCrusader]

Wemby's fine, Scott. He's doing exactly what a 20-year-old blue chip is supposed to do. Nothing good comes from comparing him to older rookies or guys who were low options starting out. Maybe the right star would work out, but many would just exacerbate the growing pains he's having.

Common Chinook W

[scott]

Common Chinook W

Yes, all 20-year old blue chip prospects are supposed to regress in their second season, playing completely away from their strengths, because that’s how they want to play. It’s like a rite of passage.

[Dejounte]

Yes, all 20-year old blue chip prospects are supposed to regress in their second season, playing completely away from their strengths, because that’s how they want to play. It’s like a rite of passage.

Scott I think we both know Wemby’s not going to play poorly the rest of the season and that he’s bound to have a statistical improvement over last season once the season’s done.

[scott]

Scott I think we both know Wemby’s not going to play poorly the rest of the season and that he’s bound to have a statistical improvement over last season once the season’s done.

Homeboy made a grand total of two 2pt FGs yesterday.

There is 1) Wemby executing poorly (as in not making shots, committing TOs, etc); there is 2) Wemby playing poorly (as in not following plays, being in the wrong place, making bad decisions, taking ill advised shots); and then there is 3) Wemby being used poorly (as in having a game plan that sets him up for failure, like trying to turn him into a perimeter ISO player or deep 3pt shooter).

#1 is a natural thing that all players go through. If this is all that were happening, there would be no cause for concern.

#2 is happening in some aspects (bad shot selection, poor decisions) but it’s not clear how much of that is a result of Wemby or a function of…

#3 this appears to be happening based on the comments we’ve heard from Wemby and the coaching staff.

If we’re gonna see Steph Wemby by design all season, then the only way for him to finish with statistical improvement on the offensive end* is for him to sudden turn into a 38%+ 3pt shooter. Maybe this will happen, a lot of his shots don’t look bad and just rim out… maybe, just maybe, he’s just on the receiving end of negative variance. More likely, however, is that he’s not a dead-eye 3pt shooter and he never will be. His 3pt shot is good enough to be a deadly weapon, but not good enough to become the centerpiece of his game.

But more important than just statistical improvement is the improvement of how he fits into team offense. Right now, he’s not. The regression is not just in some PPG stat, because honestly who cares. The regression is how he fits into the offensive flow.

There is an argument being made here that we are just injecting him with an overdose of 3pt shots as a way to jumpstart his development as a 3pt shooter via in-game experience. But this is nonsensical from a practical perspective. You don’t build a well-rounded game by transforming yourself into a one-dimensional player for 20 games (or however long the Steph Wemby era will last). If you want him to become an unstoppable, well rounded offensive weapon, then let’s get the practical experience of just playing that way. 5-6 3PA/gm seems around the sweet spot for Wemby in game settings. You don’t need him jacking up 10-15 ill advised 3PA/gm to develop his 3 point shot because there are these other situations called practice where he can do that.

One of the most logical explanations of why this is happening is because it’s what Wemby wants to do. While this is a logical explanation, it is a pretty fucking stupid justification. What’s the point of having a coaching staff if we’re just going to let Wemby do whatever he wants because that’s what he wants. If Wemby wants to start playing with his eyes closed, are we going to let him?

*he’s already ungodly on the defensive end both from a statistical perspective and the way he impacts the game and it is showing in the overall team defensive results

[Dejounte]

scott (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=150) I think you need to step back and look at the big picture. Stupid justification? When you have a generational player, you treat that shit with care and not recklessly. Simply look at generational players in the past decade or two (fuck I’m old) and see how many of them stayed with their first team. This isn’t the era where they stay loyal to one city. As an organization you have two choices to appease your star: you win or you follow what they want to do. The former is simply difficult to do unless you were a playoff team already and gifted with a top pick. Why fuck around with the latter? The worst thing to have is a losing team with an unhappy star. On the other hand, the star has no one else to blame but himself because he chose to play this way and will mature as a player.

[scott]

Dejounte, I see your point, but like most things in life there is a balance. Forcing Wemby to be Shaq (as an example) could possibly drive him out. But providing zero structure, letting Wemby just do whatever he wants, and then seeing him fail is also a recipe to see him walk out there door. Most human beings aren’t very good at accepting their own culpability in their failings, and if the Spurs just let him go Steph Wemby for a few years (which I don’t think they’ll do) and turn into a low efficiency chucker and the narrative in the media and among fans becomes that he failed to live up to the hype… he’s probably going to start asking who’s fault that is and he (like most people) are unlikely to end up looking in the mirror. And at that point, he’ll be looking for greener pastures.

I don’t think the Old School, yelling-at-Tony, Pop would be right for a modern Superstar. But neither is the “just do what you want” Pop who seems to have been completely shook by Nephew and LMA. And this brings me back to my original point. Rather than putting ALL of the onus of tough love on Pop and the coaching staff, it would have been really helpful to have a high performing veteran, who earns the respect of his teammates with his play on the court as much as he does off of it, to be that steadying mentor for Vic. Every Spurs GOAT had one.

I know this name might bring some visceral reaction, but even bring DDR back on this team could have been that kind of guy for Vic. Right now, there is no one on the team who can fill that role. And again, having that guy isn’t necessarily about winning today, but winning in the future. Ironically, Chinook is suddenly against this idea after spending all summer talking about Jimmy Butler and Khris Middleton. Jimmy Butler would have *potentially* been another kind of guy for this role (though there are valid questions about whether he’s the right locker room presence). Chris Paul would have been the right guy 6years ago like he was for SGA… it’s not Chris Paul’s fault he was born 39 years ago, but that’s just the reality of the situation.

[Pauleta14]

When you have a generational player, you treat that shit with care and not recklessly.

What we're seing isn't "carring" for Wemby but for PATFO's own interest and timeline.

Why would another strategy necessessarilly be "reckless"?

One could argue that the present strategy is reckless, surrounding him with such low IQs and passing abilities, not having anyone taking attention off of him etc can be very damaging, physically bc he's gonna get beaten down every games and more importantly, mentally.

It's as sad to watch Wemby this season that it was exciting last season.

[Dejounte]

scott so your fear is that this style continues for years after this one. I think this coaching staff has shown to steer away from what doesn’t work after giving it some time. Remember the Sochan at PG experiment only lasted 20 games. Collins was told to stop shooting threes after a certain point last season. I don’t think there is any basis for the fears you are having over what ineffective style they’re playing now. They’ve shown time and time again that they drop whatever doesn’t work in-season, if not by the end of it. Now, if the Spurs suddenly start winning with this style because they’ve added talent back from this injury list then I don’t think it will stop. Why would they? It likely means Wemby’s 3’s are going in with improved spacing from Vassell and the rotation is more balanced. Who knows… maybe the reason the coaching staff agreed to Wemby’s demands to play this way is because it looked good in practice when the roster was at full strength?

[Dejounte]

My fingers are faster than my reading comprehension, scott (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=150), i acknowledge now that you said you don’t think they will continue this past this season - ignore the first sentence of my previous sentence but my point about them changing it up mid-season (and other points) still applies

[chubbs]

LMAO wemby

[scott]

scott (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=150) so your fear is that this style continues for years after this one. I think this coaching staff has shown to steer away from what doesn’t work after giving it some time. Remember the Sochan at PG experiment only lasted 20 games. Collins was told to stop shooting threes after a certain point last season. I don’t think there is any basis for the fears you are having over what ineffective style they’re playing now. They’ve shown time and time again that they drop whatever doesn’t work in-season, if not by the end of it. Now, if the Spurs suddenly start winning with this style because they’ve added talent back from this injury list then I don’t think it will stop. Why would they? It likely means Wemby’s 3’s are going in with improved spacing from Vassell and the rotation is more balanced. Who knows… maybe the reason the coaching staff agreed to Wemby’s demands to play this way is because it looked good in practice when the roster was at full strength?

No, my biggest fear is that Wemby is not developing at his full potential, because we’ve not provided the proper development resources - in this case a high performing veteran mentor who leads by example.

Everything else you’ve just stated are just symptoms, not the disease.

Will the Spurs eventually pivot away from this if it doesn’t work? Probably, but then it’s just like the Sochan experience… why waste 20 games on it when pretty much anyone could have predicted this outcome? Hell, our man DAF86 (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=11102) stated it before Wemby played a single game: Wemby is a center. Is he a center with range? Yes, absolutely. Can we find a way to take advantage of that? Yes, and we should. Does that mean we should go down rabbit holes to see if Wemby is secretly Steph Curry and thus negating all of the other amazing things he can do? Probably not.

It all goes back to the development philosophy and framework that this team operates with. There doesn’t seem to be a plan, and there aren’t resources (our shooting coach can’t really teach anyone how to shoot… we don’t have veteran role models on the team, Pop has taken a laissez faire approach to player development, etc). We shouldn’t have to go on these 20-82 game sojourns to discover what we have. We should be able to figure that out in practice, in training game, and in a few games. We’ve had a full season of Wemby, and now we’ve decided that we should try and discover if he is actually Kevin Durant. Haven’t we seen enough to know he can’t take guys off the dribble as primary offensive move? Haven’t we seen enough to know he’s not a Logo 3 merchant?

[scott]

The video that RC posted in the Wemby thread I think is a great watch. It’s not that Wemby is in a slump, it’s just really poor utilization of him coupled with an incoherent roster construction. Going into Game 10, 62% of his shots are 3PA this year (hitting 22% of them), meanwhile he was shooting 77% in the restricted area (per the video RC posted). I think most people can see the problem with that!

[Dejounte]

scott ah the funny thing about the Sochan experiment is that the outcome is debatable. There’s a side here that believes it helped mold him into the player he’s starting to show this season and the other side thinks it did nothing. IMO, he’s exhibiting some ball handling skills this season that wouldn’t be there if it weren’t for those 20 games last season. He was able to discover his limitations and is (smartly) picking up the ball in situations he wouldn’t have.

So whether one believes that extreme experiment worked out for Sochan or not will be believers in the current Wemby experiment. Hopefully we have more definitive evidence that it shapes him into the dominant player he’ll become (we hope).

[lefty20]

I don't know why people don't wanna acknowledge how the real world works, even though they are clearly smart enough to understand it.

Winning the Wemby lotto meant that the Franchise value sky rocketed almost overnight. So, PATFO is not gonna treat Wemby like they did a young Tony. If Wemby wants to try following the KD/Curry mold then they will give him that chance. Cuz he's the Franchise right now. It's that simple.

It very well could end up being a waste of time. But it's something that Wemby wants, so it's something that he will get.

It could be worse. Our Franchise ticket could be wasting time by getting suspend for showing off his Walther PPK collection on insta live.

[Pauleta14]

No one knows if the "strategy" is a requested by Wemby or imposed by PATFO

But let's just act as if you knew smh :lol

[LeBowen]

If we're trying to be positive, OKC also went from 22 to 40 to 57 wins in consecutive seasons.
Most of us in here expected 30 to 35 wins this year and above .500 record the next season. It's not impossible to skip that step.
But if we go into the next season with the likes of Collins and Keldon on the roster, then the front office and coaching staff has to go.

Wemby, Devin, Jeremy, Castle are the core, Champagnie will also be on the roster and most likely two rookies.
I want 3 legit players on top of that. Not fading veterans or reclamation projects. We'll need actual NBA players.

[lefty20]

Of course, no one knows if Wemby requested the strategy.

That is if you are completely ignoring Wemby's own words about not wanting to be boxed in as a inside player only.

[Dejounte]

I don't know why people don't wanna acknowledge how the real world works, even though they are clearly smart enough to understand it.

Winning the Wemby lotto meant that the Franchise value sky rocketed almost overnight. So, PATFO is not gonna treat Wemby like they did a young Tony. If Wemby wants to try following the KD/Curry mold then they will give him that chance. Cuz he's the Franchise right now. It's that simple.

It very well could end up being a waste of time. But it's something that Wemby wants, so it's something that he will get.

It could be worse. Our Franchise ticket could be wasting time by getting suspend for showing off his Walther PPK collection on insta live.

Exactly this. Wemby’s a billion dollar investment. No need to fuck around with what he wants tbh.

[scott]

Wemby also wants (or so he claims) to be "coached hard". You'd think that coaching would include saying "hey man... I know you want to be Steph Curry... but you aren't. Let's play into your strengths and natural advantages" instead of "oh, you want to be a princess today? I guess it's tea time!"

Or maybe Wemby is just a pussy ass bitch who can't handle any criticism at all and needs to be babied. I don't think this is the case, and I sure hope it's not, because they we have other problems.

[RC_Drunkford]

I think Wemby‘s bad shooting numbers from 3 are easy to explain: he shoots most of them from way behind the 3-point line. He‘s clearly automatic from 3 in practice/shootaround (there are plenty of videos). Yesterday against the Jazz he shot most of them standing at the line and he hit them. He just needs to get higher quality looks.

[baseline bum]

teams have adjusted to that blueprint. If you look at tape from last season you mainly see Wemby going 1-on-1 against centers. That’s where he has an advantage with his handles, etc. Being guarded by wings and double/triple teamed is a whole different ball game

Teams were guarding him with smalls to begin the season last year too and he was struggling like hell then. We were all bitching about him trying to cross guards up instead of taking them in the post. Then he started destroying SGs and SFs in the post by the new year and teams were forced to guard him with PF and C. His conditioning must just be total crap now to not be punishing these guys on the block like did last year by about mid December when teams were guarding him that way.

[LeBowen]

"coached hard".

Has anyone been coached hard in San Antonio since nephew took a massive dump on the entire franchise?
LMA complained about touches and got his way.
We witnessed two straight seasons of Forbes losing us easy games and he never got benched.

I honestly don't know the answer to the coaching question right now, can't decide which side to take, tbh.
While we do have an awful roster outside of 4 or 5 players, there are a lot of coaches around the league who make those borderline NBA players work well in a system.

Does our coaching staff have that capability? You think Spoelstra wouldn't make our roster look better?
What kind of message they send to players trying to become rotation members? Mamu and even Bassey do well whenever they get minutes, but there was never any discussion of sitting Keldon or especially Collins because they're a massive negative on both ends of the floor. Where's the accountability?
We're already one of the worst teams in the league, how much worse can it get if worst performers start catching DNPs?

[scott]

Has anyone been coached hard in San Antonio since nephew took a massive dump on the entire franchise?
LMA complained about touches and got his way.
We witnessed two straight seasons of Forbes losing us easy games and he never got benched.

I honestly don't know the answer to the coaching question right now, can't decide which side to take, tbh.
While we do have an awful roster outside of 4 or 5 players, there are a lot of coaches around the league who make those borderline NBA players work well in a system.

Does our coaching staff have that capability? You think Spoelstra wouldn't make our roster look better?
What kind of message they send to players trying to become rotation members? Mamu and even Bassey do well whenever they get minutes, but there was never any discussion of sitting Keldon or especially Collins because they're a massive negative on both ends of the floor. Where's the accountability?
We're already one of the worst teams in the league, how much worse can it get if worst performers start catching DNPs?

It's probably hard to push accountability onto the players when you've got the highest paid FO and HC in the league who ALSO happen to be the only FO and HC who've managed to survive being in the lottery for 5 straight years, headed towards 6.

[The Truth #6]

Yeah, so I see two things.

1. They are letting him figure things out himself rather than try to control him (the long-standing critique was that Pop was too controlling).

2. The other teams have figured out how to defend him with a physical small forward. Victor gets stripped all the time now dribbling. He doesn't really want to be a post player and doesn't have the strength for it.

To me, he gets his best points off team movement not isolation. But we'll see where this goes.

[Pauleta14]

If we're trying to be positive, OKC also went from 22 to 40 to 57 wins in consecutive seasons.
Most of us in here expected 30 to 35 wins this year and above .500 record the next season. It's not impossible to skip that step.
But if we go into the next season with the likes of Collins and Keldon on the roster, then the front office and coaching staff has to go.

Wemby, Devin, Jeremy, Castle are the core, Champagnie will also be on the roster and most likely two rookies.
I want 3 legit players on top of that. Not fading veterans or reclamation projects. We'll need actual NBA players.

All I'm saying is that as inconvenient it can be, because PATFO's secrecy culture added to local medias inability or unwilligness to tell the public what's happening, there's a degree of agnosticism regarding the real strategy in place that should be kept in all our theories or analysis.

I also think, that this detail could help us exchange without considering a different pov as idiotic or unrealistic because they all have potentially legs.

[Pauleta14]

Of course, no one knows if Wemby requested the strategy.

That is if you are completely ignoring Wemby's own words about not wanting to be boxed in as a inside player only.

That's not a strategy, that's a goal.

We're all aware of that but no one knows what has been decided, nor if they're on the same page.

- Wemby could be the pain in the ass using his leverage to impose his "strategy" despite PATFO'S tentative to convince him othewise.

- PATFO (Pop in particular) could be the one who convinced Wemby to change is timeline and go through a longer developmental process.

- Both parties could be just trying to find the right "strategy" and be as lost as they seem to be whatcng the team.

- There could also be an underrated level of incompetency that many fans have called for years. It's not absurd condidering every Cie/firm etc goes through that stage, it's very hard to keep the same level of competency with such a regular turnover at so many key positions for so many years.

[CGD]

Yeah, so I see two things.

1. They are letting him figure things out himself rather than try to control him (the long-standing critique was that Pop was too controlling).

2. The other teams have figured out how to defend him with a physical small forward. Victor gets stripped all the time now dribbling. He doesn't really want to be a post player and doesn't have the strength for it.

To me, he gets his best points off team movement not isolation. But we'll see where this goes.

Def #2. Teams now have a year worth of tape to game plan. Add to that the team’s atrocious spacing, and yeah, why pull out your Center to guard Vic? My hope is that Vassell helps with the spacing

So long as Spurs are committed to playing the vet, our best line up is probably:

CP3, Vassell, Champ, Barnes, Wembs

[spursparker9]

I think they gave Wemby the green light to shoot unlimited 3s is because they realized that it is always an open shot for Wemby given his height.

Since it is a unblockable shot, as long as Wemby is conditioned enough and with good shooting form, he can knock it down at respectable rate.

Wemby just need to figure out the "happy middle (per Tony Parker)" between spamming 3s and playmaking for the team

[ambchang]

I generally disagree with managing superstars by letting them do whatever they want. Not saying that what is what’s happening as none of us know what is happening, but this is more to address the speculations:
1) You are basically creating a monster. Bending over backwards for a superstar basically gives them free range to manage roster moves and even FO decisions. From Lebron to Giannis, Kawhi to embiid, nothing good ever happens when the superstar make FO calls. These are things best left to professionals.
2) Bending over backwards for people is t how to earn respect. Without a mutually respectful relationship, the team will never excel. It is either growing resentment from one or both sides, or the superstar refuse to listen to anything due to lack of respect. This would be a nightmare scenario in a supposedly symbiotic relationship.
3) the player will not be able to accept constructive criticisms for growth. Kawhi has not improved at all, and arguably regressed, since his last healthy season with the spurs. Lebrons greatest growth was when he was with the heat when Riley would tell him to piss off if need be (he did piss off to be fair).

A high maintenance superstar is rarely worth the effort. Jordan didn’t start winning rings until he got a coach he respected (Jackson), same with shaq, to be a FO that would cater to whatever the superstar wants is like a guy willingly being whipped by his girlfriend, it’s not a healthy relationship no matter how hot the girl is, and nothing good ever comes out of it.

That said, I still think it’s FO being clueless. I think wemby wants to learn, he wants to grow, he doesn’t mind being yelled at as long as it makes sense.

[scott]

Agree with everything you just stated ambchang. And if this is the case of the FO just catering to Wemby's wants (which, like you say... we don't actually know - that's just the justification that certain posters have ascribed to the stupid approach they are taking), I wouldn't immediately assume that is something that Wemby has demanded, but rather a proactive approach the Spurs are taking because maybe they've felt burned by other players and they thing they have to do this. Which is just another way of agreeing with your assessment... the FO is just clueless.

[TheBallsbreakers]

A multi-billion dollar operation like the San Antonio Spurs is not one to go about making business decisions while being "clueless". WTF.

I get that this a forum for discussing all things about our favorite team but sometimes we just need to collectively pinch our ballsacks a little bit to wake up and re-acquaint ourselves to this fact.

[Tyronn Lue]

The FO is doing whatever makes Victor happy. Keeping him entertained is better than losing him due to lack of competitiveness as a team.

[Chinook]

I guess Castle is also not Wemby's cryptonite. It really does seem like if it's willing to play off the ball that he can have a ton of success. Now I missed most of the game, so I didn't get to see how the Kings were guarding him. But it certainly looked like they lacked the forward with size and defensive chops to replicate the game plan other teams have used successfully. It's WAY too early, but if the Spurs can make the play-in their chances of getting through might swing on whether the teams have a "Wemby counter" or have to play their center there.

[scott]

I guess Castle is also not Wemby's cryptonite. It really does seem like if it's willing to play off the ball that he can have a ton of success. Now I missed most of the game, so I didn't get to see how the Kings were guarding him. But it certainly looked like they lacked the forward with size and defensive chops to replicate the game plan other teams have used successfully. It's WAY too early, but if the Spurs can make the play-in their chances of getting through might swing on whether the teams have a "Wemby counter" or have to play their center there.

There were a couple of possessions (and I’m talking a couple literally, like two) were Doug McDermott gave Wemby some trouble in the post but overall there was just a lot more energy and movement from Wemby tonight. He caught a couple buckets off of offensive rebounds which was nice as well. Tonight was a good balance of Wemby being more active on offense and finding himself in good positions to score. Shot a handful of threes that he shouldn’t have, but the 3pt shot selection was a lot better.

[Pauleta14]

I noticed a new thing Wemby FINALLY does on offense, when a teammate starts his shooting he goes straight to rebound instead of waiting for the shot to fall as he used to.

He got 3 of his offensive rebounds that way today

[John B]

I guess Castle is also not Wemby's cryptonite. It really does seem like if it's willing to play off the ball that he can have a ton of success. Now I missed most of the game, so I didn't get to see how the Kings were guarding him. But it certainly looked like they lacked the forward with size and defensive chops to replicate the game plan other teams have used successfully. It's WAY too early, but if the Spurs can make the play-in their chances of getting through might swing on whether the teams have a "Wemby counter" or have to play their center there.

As long as Wemby is hitting his outside shots, he can pull a dominant Center like Sabonis out and not play him at the post.

[CGD]

A thing that stands out in these last two games is that Vassell has a much better 2 man game with Wemby than Paul (bc of age). Vassell’s return and Steph’s rise, should also hopefully result in fewer minutes of Branham imitating the offense (which has been bad), with the latter anchoring the bench.

[CGD]

As long as Wemby is hitting his outside shots, he can pull a dominant Center like Sabonis out and not play him at the post.

I think this is unique to SAC who is shockingly small outside of Sabonis. Still think most teams with the personnel will throw a smaller but stout defend at Wembs ala Brooks, Dort/JW, Grant, Washington, etc.

[Spurs Homer]

Wemby taking a hot wet shit on all the spurstalk amateur pundits who know as much about basketball as a door stop.

[DAF86]

Wemby taking a hot wet shit on all the spurstalk amateur pundits who know as much about basketball as a door stop.

Why, because he hit his 3s this game? What happens when he goes 2/7 on the next game? Wemby shouldn't need the 3pt shot to fall to score points.

[TheBallsbreakers]

Why, because he hit his 3s this game? What happens when he goes 2/7 on the next game? Wemby shouldn't need the 3pt shot to fall to score points.
He was 6 for 9 against Utah.
If he keeps this up then that's just him finally hitting his groove, for which you and I should be happy, not sit and spin in trepidation.

[DAF86]

He was 6 for 9 against Utah.
If he keeps this up then that's just him finally hitting his groove, for which you and I should be happy, not sit and spin in trepidation.

Of course I would be happy if suddenly Wemby becomes an elite 3pt shooter, all I'm saying is that he has way easier ways to get his points. I'd like for him to take advantage of those instead of relying so much on a shot that he shoots at a below average level.

[skin27]

Of course I would be happy if suddenly Wemby becomes an elite 3pt shooter, all I'm saying is that he has way easier ways to get his points. I'd like for him to take advantage of those instead of relying so much on a shot that he shoots at a below average level.


he needs to learn how to draw a foul to get to the freethrow line. 8 to 10 freethrow attempts a game should be good

[TheBallsbreakers]

Of course I would be happy if suddenly Wemby becomes an elite 3pt shooter, all I'm saying is that he has way easier ways to get his points. I'd like for him to take advantage of those instead of relying so much on a shot that he shoots at a below average level.
What if he's gradually becoming an elite 3 point shooter? Obviously you and I do not know the answer to that, if we're talking long-term. But do you want him to stay away from what he is doing now and just eschew the progress he's made (so far)? I mean, there's literal proof of progress at this point.

[scott]

Why not have Sochan and Castle each shoot ten 3s a game? What if they become elite 3 point shooters?

[John B]

he needs to learn how to draw a foul to get to the freethrow line. 8 to 10 freethrow attempts a game should be good

The guy’s a stick. I’d rather not see him getting clobbered every time. Now Castle yes. I see him baiting fouls and making a living at the ft line

[John B]

Why not have Sochan and Castle each shoot ten 3s a game? What if they become elite 3 point shooters?

Because Sochan and Castle don’t get open like Wemby does at 7’6

[TheBallsbreakers]

Why not have Sochan and Castle each shoot ten 3s a game? What if they become elite 3 point shooters?
fukkit, GO FOR IT!!!

[TheBallsbreakers]

Because Sochan and Castle don’t get open like Wemby does at 7’6
Amen, brother, amen!

[DAF86]

What if he's gradually becoming an elite 3 point shooter? Obviously you and I do not know the answer to that, if we're talking long-term. But do you want him to stay away from what he is doing now and just eschew the progress he's made (so far)? I mean, there's literal proof of progress at this point.

I don't want him to stop shooting 3's, I want him to stop shooting stupid 3's. I want him to stop taking half his shots from the 3pt land. I want him to stop trying to look cool and turn the ball over like crazy. I want him to start getting more assists than turnovers. I want him to start getting serious about winning and playing winning basketball.

[skin27]

The guy’s a stick. I’d rather not see him getting clobbered every time. Now Castle yes. I see him baiting fouls and making a living at the ft line


same as durant. Remember Durefs 2012 to 2016. I thought wemby is modeling his game from KD so he should also learn how to live at the freethrowline like prime KD.

[John B]

same as durant. Remember Durefs 2012 to 2016. I thought wemby is modeling his game from KD so he should also learn how to live at the freethrowline like prime KD.

Idk man. I’d rather bubble wrap Wemby. It’d be like watching a female boxer getting clobbered by a she-man at the Olympics. Nope.

[TheBallsbreakers]

I don't want him to stop shooting 3's, I want him to stop shooting stupid 3's. I want him to stop taking half his shots from the 3pt land. I want him to stop trying to look cool and turn the ball over like crazy. I want him to start getting more assists than turnovers. I want him to start getting serious about winning and playing winning basketball.
You sure want a lot of things for someone with absolutely zero control over how to get them.
And you sure know a lot about what's actually "winning basketball" in the long-term, for someone, again, with zero say and insight into the matter.
I get it. Fandom.
But that is no way to live, my guy.

[scott]

Because Sochan and Castle don’t get open like Wemby does at 7’6

Have you ever watched a Spurs game? These guys get LOTS of open threes, and for a reason :lol

Castle will start to get fewer wide open looks over time.

Also, have you ever noticed how opposing teams get wide open 3s against us with out being 9 feet tall? Maybe the Spurs could look into that.

[scott]

I don't want him to stop shooting 3's, I want him to stop shooting stupid 3's. I want him to stop taking half his shots from the 3pt land. I want him to stop trying to look cool and turn the ball over like crazy. I want him to start getting more assists than turnovers. I want him to start getting serious about winning and playing winning basketball.

Should be a pinned post, tbh

[TheBallsbreakers]

Have you ever watched a Spurs game? These guys get LOTS of open threes, and for a reason :lol

Castle will start to get fewer wide open looks over time.

Also, have you ever noticed how opposing teams get wide open 3s against us with out being 9 feet tall? Maybe the Spurs could look into that.
You seriously don't think being 15 feet tall like Wemby does not give him a better chance of being more open than any of those 8-foot golems you mentioned?

[John B]

You seriously don't think being 15 feet tall like Wemby does not give him a better chance of being more open than any of those 8-foot golems you mentioned?

Exactly. The kid is going to be open all his career just standing and raising the ball up his head. It’s practically uncontested shot every time. Might as well practice them.

[scott]

You seriously don't think being 15 feet tall like Wemby does not give him a better chance of being more open than any of those 8-foot golems you mentioned?

https://i.ibb.co/bW0M5KD/sochan.png

How open does Jeremy need to be? Would being a foot taller have changed the outcome of this shot (it was an airball, for the record)?

[scott]

The premise here seems to be that Wemby making threes is good, and the only way Wemby can get better at making threes is by shooting ten of them a game.

Sochan making threes would also be good... so why not have him shoot ten 3PA a game? Does Jeremy have some other secret way of getting better at 3s that Wemby does not?

[John B]

https://i.ibb.co/bW0M5KD/sochan.png

How open does Jeremy need to be? Would being a foot taller have changed the outcome of this shot (it was an airball, for the record)?

The dude is open because people are letting him shoot. He starts making them he’s not going to be as open. Wemby regardless they guard him just need to jump to be open. Not the same apple.

[scott]

The dude is open because people are letting him shoot. He starts making them he’s not going to be as open. Wemby regardless they guard him just need to jump to be open. Not the same apple.

You've almost got it John... come on... so close!

[John B]

You've almost got it John... come on... so close!

Dude, Sochan’s form is so broken. Wemby’s form is not. I don’t see the comparison.

[scott]

You're right. We should just give up. Good call.

[Dejounte]

If we disregard coach pop’s genius because he’s “too soft with wemby or fallen off and doesn't care”, do we disregard chris paul’s genius too? CP is considered to have one of the greatest minds of basketball… does he look at wemby’s tendencies like we do and think wemby needs to stop this silliness and be coached harder? This is a factor I hadn’t considered until now and maybe us regular joes are wrong about this and there is one (if not two) basketball genius actually talking to and playing with Wemby about his subpar choices as a basketball player… and maybe he’s thinking, “this is alright, it will lead to a good outcome” for some odd reason. Late night musings…

[TheBallsbreakers]

The premise here seems to be that Wemby making threes is good, and the only way Wemby can get better at making threes is by shooting ten of them a game.

Sochan making threes would also be good... so why not have him shoot ten 3PA a game? Does Jeremy have some other secret way of getting better at 3s that Wemby does not?
Put a balm on that sore ass, abuelo. You're getting more ornery and nothing good is left in the world oh my.

[playbonner15]

I don't want him to stop shooting 3's, I want him to stop shooting stupid 3's. I want him to stop taking half his shots from the 3pt land. I want him to stop trying to look cool and turn the ball over like crazy. I want him to start getting more assists than turnovers. I want him to start getting serious about winning and playing winning basketball.

Agree with this. Wemby made those 3s where he's approaching the top of the 3pt line early in the shot clock. It was great and hyped the crows. But if he missed them it's too frustrating bec they could've setup a better higher percentage play. But then I remember this is Wemby getting his reps. I have a feeling they'll take it seriously if they reach the playin or next season. It's this season's Point Sochan

[John B]

Of course it’s part of their training to shoot 3’s when open. Even Navy cooks learn to shoot a gun, but it doesn’t mean you send him in the frontline. Sorry I don’t see it :lol:lol

[scott]

Of course it’s part of their training to shoot 3’s when open. Even Navy cooks learn to shoot a gun, but it doesn’t mean you send him in the frontline. Sorry I don’t see it :lol:lol

Unless the cooks are a foot taller?

[John B]

Unless the cooks are a foot taller?

Nah that will be the Admiral playing for the Spurs :hungry:

[scott]

If we disregard coach pop’s genius because he’s “too soft with wemby or fallen off and doesn't care”, do we disregard chris paul’s genius too? CP is considered to have one of the greatest minds of basketball… does he look at wemby’s tendencies like we do and think wemby needs to stop this silliness and be coached harder? This is a factor I hadn’t considered until now and maybe us regular joes are wrong about this and there is one (if not two) basketball genius actually talking to and playing with Wemby about his subpar choices as a basketball player… and maybe he’s thinking, “this is alright, it will lead to a good outcome” for some odd reason. Late night musings…

Maybe you've missed it, but I've repeatedly said CP3 is exactly the right kind of person for this. CP3's problem is that he is just too old to have the on-the-court chops to lead by example with his play. It's not CP3's fault. There is only one 39 year old I've ever seen capable of this (well, there was also one in the NFL), and most of this website hates him for mostly quite irrational reasons. Wemby will make due without it, but he'd really benefit from that Terry Cummings-like teammate. We'll have to settle for CP3s wisdom.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Something to note.

Wemby’s EFG% and TS% are already better than last season’s.

He does need to find the sweet spot for 3s per game, go inside and to the free throw line more often but it does seem like there’s a method, they’re working on his game and specifically on his shooting profile for the level he wants to reach eventually and are living with the results short-term while the games aren’t that important.

[flox]

Why not have Sochan and Castle each shoot ten 3s a game? What if they become elite 3 point shooters?

That's less 3pt opportunities for Wemby, who by far is the most critical piece to learn to hit all different types of 3s. Maybe they get the green light when Wemby is better but now is not the right time for them.

[Mr. Body]

Last couple games the timing and places he's taking his 3s is much better to me. They're more in rhythm with where the game might need them. Feels less totally freelance to me.

[Brazil]

Something to note.

Wemby’s EFG% and TS% are already better than last season’s.

He does need to find the sweet spot for 3s per game, go inside and to the free throw line more often but it does seem like there’s a method, they’re working on his game and specifically on his shooting profile for the level he wants to reach eventually and are living with the results short-term while the games aren’t that important.

After 11 games and despite a rough start, Victor is catching up stat wise compared to last season, still a long way to go to vs his second part of the season last year but he is getting there.

A couple of noticeable changes:

- his FT% is much improved, .92 which is not sustainable but good to see
- his FTA is almost 2 FTs lower per game which makes sense, his FGA is lower but more importantly he is taking 2 more 3s than last year
- bpg, steals, board, TOV are about the same
- lower apg tho but last night was good, it helps when teammates make the shots
- I was checking usage and it corrolates the eye test, his usage is 3 pts lower which is not non significant

On defense, dude is great no question about it, better than last year even compared with his second half of the year

[skin27]

Hopefuly wemby always play like hiw he played last night vs kings

[DAF86]

You sure want a lot of things for someone with absolutely zero control over how to get them.
And you sure know a lot about what's actually "winning basketball" in the long-term, for someone, again, with zero say and insight into the matter.
I get it. Fandom.
But that is no way to live, my guy.

I've watched basketball all my life and Duncan's Spurs for almost 20 years. I know what winning basketball looks like.

[Pauleta14]

He's getting smarter with his energy expenditure on defense those last couple games, it gives him more juice to fight on the offensive boards.

[RC_Drunkford]

played 34 min and didn't look tired. Seems to finally get his legs under him.

[james evans]

Hopefuly wemby always play like hiw he played last night vs kings
It's not only up to him. We need SPACING. It's up the coaching. If they continue to play wemby with guys that can't shoot, he will be doubled and tripled all game. Surround him with shooters and they can't double him. It's really quite simple

[james evans]

played 34 min and didn't look tired. Seems to finally get his legs under him.
The only way you're going to increase your energy is by playing. When you train for a marathon, you don't only run 5 miles a day and rest. You train as you fight. Don't worry, once popovich comes back, he's gonna start his bullshit rotations and fuck everything up .

[Spurs Homer]

Why, because he hit his 3s this game? What happens when he goes 2/7 on the next game? Wemby shouldn't need the 3pt shot to fall to score points.


I already explained it to you guys and your limited imaginations could not consider it or even allow it into your idea of what wemby "should" be...

i heard "he's no curry"
"curry shot blah blah percent"

"he needs to do this...do that... stop doing that...stop taking 3's....blah blah"

he will out-curry - curry from deep....
he will out-durant - durant from mid-range
he will out-big man all big-men from near the rim

relax and enjoy the unicorn take over from anywhere on the court at any time...

[Cry Havoc]

played 34 min and didn't look tired. Seems to finally get his legs under him.

Gotta remember he's 20 and just went through his first NBA season, then the Olympics, then right back to SA to get ready for the season. He probably needed to re-acclimate to the grind.

I fully expect him to still have some rough performances this year but overall I expect Wemby to improve as the season goes on, just like he did last year.

[RC_Drunkford]

some more tape on the actions Mitch ran against the Kings. Good stuff


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dl3WvXq050

[Dejounte]

Ok Wemby… maybe keep shooting? Coaches were right to bend over to Wemby’s demands tbh

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

He’s going to shoot it and get better and better at it. 90% of his 3s are practically wide open because no one can get to him. I found it interesting, though, that when he was chasing the 50 he got inside way more and went to the line a few times as well. He’ll eventually find the right shot diet and balance and will be unstoppable.

[Spurs Homer]

I've watched basketball all my life and Duncan's Spurs for almost 20 years. I know what winning basketball looks like.

wemby just dropped a duece in your mouth….mr expert

[Spurs Homer]

I already explained it to you guys and your limited imaginations could not consider it or even allow it into your idea of what wemby "should" be...

i heard "he's no curry"
"curry shot blah blah percent"

"he needs to do this...do that... stop doing that...stop taking 3's....blah blah"

he will out-curry - curry from deep....
he will out-durant - durant from mid-range
he will out-big man all big-men from near the rim

relax and enjoy the unicorn take over from anywhere on the court at any time...

[DAF86]

wemby just dropped a duece in your mouth….mr expert

Explain to me how he did that, please. :lol

[TheBallsbreakers]

Keep shooting! And there it is!

[james evans]

We've got to do something to get Collins off this goddamn team. He's horrible, adds nothing, and every time he comes into the game, a run occurs

[Mr. Body]

He’s going to shoot it and get better and better at it. 90% of his 3s are practically wide open because no one can get to him. I found it interesting, though, that when he was chasing the 50 he got inside way more and went to the line a few times as well. He’ll eventually find the right shot diet and balance and will be unstoppable.

The Wiz had to go way out to contest his threes, which let him pump fake and drive and do a lot of stuff toward the lane. If he, you know, hits .500 of his threes, they really have no choice.

[Mr. Body]

We've got to do something to get Collins off this goddamn team. He's horrible, adds nothing, and every time he comes into the game, a run occurs

Lol.

Fuck you monkey brain idiots. Or are you just Russian bots?

[Rosewood]

Lol.

Fuck you monkey brain idiots. Or are you just Russian bots? What are you saying here?

[lefty20]

1856908838563197350

Trust the process, tbh.

[scott]

I’ll be honest - perhaps it was my own lack of imagination before, but tonight I saw for the first time what perhaps was the point of all of this. If Wemby even shoots 36% from three, then these pump fake and drives he did tonight against the Wizards are going to be there. Eventually teams will adjust somewhat but it will just leave someone else open to shoot a three.

So, I eat some crow and say that I understand what the game plan might be here. I don’t expect Wemby to continue the tear he has been on the last 3 games from 3… but he doesn’t need to. When he’s shooting 22%, it’s a bad strategy. When he’s shooting 50%, he’s going to post insane games. When he’s shooting closer to average (which hopefully be in the 35%+ range), then the Spurs offense is going to work the way I assume they envision it.

Some of the shot selection can be cleaned up, but that will come over time.

It’s still early, but if we’re going to be around a .500 team, then my main point about having a high performing vet leader still stands. While I didn’t (and still wouldn’t) want DDR back, he’s an example of the kind of short term, All-Star Caliber vet who the team could use, IMO.

Anyway, this crow is delicious, and I’m happy to be eating it.

[RC_Drunkford]

less logo threes and instead more threes in the flow of the game close to the 3-point line: Voilá, 50 piece to go. After a bunch of makes that pump fake gives him an open lane to the rim. More of this please.

[Brazil]

:lol in 26 minutes

[LeBowen]

less logo threes and instead more threes in the flow of the game close to the 3-point line: Voilá, 50 piece to go. After a bunch of makes that pump fake gives him an open lane to the rim. More of this please.

Will be interesting to see what happens in games when his shot isn't falling.
No issue with him attempting 10+ if he's got it going, but I don't want to see those brickfests again. And unlike shooters, he can just change his game if his shot isn't falling.
With that being said, due to his height those 3pts that are right on the arc look like FTs for him since his release point is so high.