Pick #2 - Strategies

[LeBowen]

Just not worth paying that high on him. I think they “demand” Castle as well and take him out at the 11th hour to try to push a deal over the line. That being said, I don’t think they are going to get the bidding war they think they are; Houston has Amen off limits, Dallas seems ready to build with Flagg, and the dark horse of it all OKC has a solid chance to win the chip in a month which would take them out of the Giannis sweepstakes.

Imo, Rockets don't make sense unless they have a complete roster overhaul. Their spacing is horrible.
OKC is the only team that makes sense if they fail to win it this year.
Williams and Chet will never have more value and I'm sure Presti won't be easy on the trigger with those rookie max extensions, especially for Williams.
He might even pull a heist after they win a ring if those two have a good finals series, get Giannis with just the two of them and a couple of picks.

[spurraider21]

I hate to sound like a broken record (because I've replied this before to others) but if the Bailey archetype is really that much more preferred over Harper... then I think you are best off just trying to get #7 and TMIII from NOP, since TMIII is the 95th percentile outcome of Ace Bailey.
nah the harper archetype is more valuable. its just slightly awkward in the near future given fox/castle. the bailey/murphy archetype is better if we are trying to fill out our depth chart/rotation for next year. harper could be our lead guard for a decade plus

[scott]

nah the harper archetype is more valuable. its just slightly awkward in the near future given fox/castle. the bailey/murphy archetype is better if we are trying to fill out our depth chart/rotation for next year. harper could be our lead guard for a decade plus

That's not really the point I'm making though. I'm saying that if you somehow convinced yourself that you preferred the Bailey archetype... you still don't take Bailey, you just make the trade for the actualized version of Bailey's top end PLUS additional assets.

[cd98]

If Harper is projected to be better than Fox and Castle, then why would we trade him and not the other guys? And what is the rush to trade any of them. Draft Harper and complete your guard rotation. With Wemby, you just need to address a shooter and another big through the 14th pick and free agency and internal development. You may hate Sochan or Vassell, but they are young players that have NBA skills. Hell, if Sochan could develop an adequate 3 point shot, he would be the perfect compliment to Wemby and no need to get another PF.

[spurraider21]

If Harper is projected to be better than Fox and Castle, then why would we trade him and not the other guys? And what is the rush to trade any of them. Draft Harper and complete your guard rotation. With Wemby, you just need to address a shooter and another big through the 14th pick and free agency and internal development. You may hate Sochan or Vassell, but they are young players that have NBA skills. Hell, if Sochan could develop an adequate 3 point shot, he would be the perfect compliment to Wemby and no need to get another PF.
"projected to be better than fox" is a questionable. is he a better prospect than kentucky fox was.... sure. but Fox has developed into an all-star caliber player, a top 25-ish player in the league.

harper is awesome but im not sure if his median outcome is all star and top 30 player. the more ive had time to digest, the less trade-happy ive been.

[mo7888]

Imo, Rockets don't make sense unless they have a complete roster overhaul. Their spacing is horrible.
OKC is the only team that makes sense if they fail to win it this year.
Williams and Chet will never have more value and I'm sure Presti won't be easy on the trigger with those rookie max extensions, especially for Williams.
He might even pull a heist after they win a ring if those two have a good finals series, get Giannis with just the two of them and a couple of picks.

If Giannis doesn't go to Houston or okc then they might end up moving him to Philly for PG + #3 + 3 future 1st's. You know Philly would do ot and it might be Milwaukee's best option.

[SpursFan86]

harper is awesome but im not sure if his median outcome is all star and top 30 player. the more ive had time to digest, the less trade-happy ive been.

This is the thing that makes me wonder what people are thinking when they talk about already wanted to trade Fox before we’ve even see Harper play a single game. Yes, he has the potential to be better than Fox…but I think even saying his median or average outcome is better than Fox is a stretch (and then obviously there is a floor outcome too).

I get the salary component of Harper being much cheaper for the next 4 years but let’s be real. Immediately cutting bait with Fox because a great prospect fell into our lap is an absurd notion to me.

[DAF86]

A few years ago, Sean was saying on the telecast that he asked Pop why they didn’t run certain plays any more. Pop flat out said that the players didn’t have the skills to run them.

You might have a point if they were all 6’3”, Fox sized. The reality is that you can actually run them all together on the floor as a 1-3 combo. Having redundant high level PG skills guys that can occupy the floor at the same time doesn’t actually sound like a problem

I would agree if they weren't all subpar shooters, tbh.

[vy65]

It's going to be hard for the Hawks to not make the playoffs next year.

You shut your whore mouth

[baseline bum]

This is especially true if the Bucks trade Giannis for young pieces. There are just too many bad teams below them

Ugh and you look at next year's draft and know tanking will be huge again.

[Tyrone Jenkins]

if Sochan could develop an adequate 3 point shot, he would be the perfect compliment to Wemby and no need to get another PF.

Why does everyone keep "hoping" guys are gonna all of the sudden learn how to shoot 3s at a 40% rate after not doing so for 15-18 years?

Maybe a few have improved their shot in the past but the majority don't that much.

This team needs to DRAFT and TRADE FOR 3 and D guys. Harper at 2 is no brainer but 14 and 38 could have potential either way.

[intlspurshk]

Draft Harper and a backup SF or Center, steal Steven Adams or John Colins, trade DV for picks to save future cap spaces and prepare for future trades. Harper, Castle and Wemby are the corner stones players for the next decade.

[Dejounte]

This thread should be closed down now that we know what’s happening

[CorrectCrusader]

I forgot, we can't draft Dylan Harper, we have Juan Nunez!

[TD 21]

This is the thing that makes me wonder what people are thinking when they talk about already wanted to trade Fox before we’ve even see Harper play a single game. Yes, he has the potential to be better than Fox…but I think even saying his median or average outcome is better than Fox is a stretch (and then obviously there is a floor outcome too).

I get the salary component of Harper being much cheaper for the next 4 years but let’s be real. Immediately cutting bait with Fox because a great prospect fell into our lap is an absurd notion to me.

That's clearly by far the most likely outcome, especially considering the lack of an obvious Harper Jr. trade.

This won't happen, but if they think there's a good chance that Harper Jr. will become as good or better than Fox, then they might as well save themselves the looming awkwardness and imbalanced roster and have discussions with Wembanyama and Fox now that, if all goes according to plan, is going to have to happen in probably two years max anyway.

If they could get everyone on board, something like Fox for Wiggins, Anderson and a couple of 1sts could make sense, in conjunction with circling back to trying to re-sign Paul.

[td4mvp2k]

trading the pick should be on the table and getting a ransom from a team like the wizards... next years draft looks better at the top.

[LeBowen]

trading the pick should be on the table and getting a ransom from a team like the wizards... next years draft looks better at the top.

You don't trade a winning lottery ticket for more lottery tickets.

[td4mvp2k]

You don't trade a winning lottery ticket for more lottery tickets.
its not though.. its the next best thing. if it leads to a bigger need you do.

[LeBowen]

its not though.. its the next best thing.

It is.
We didn't hit the jackpot, but this was a serious lottery win. Harper would've been the undisputed #1 pick last year.


if it leads to a bigger need you do.

You know that 14% odds are just that. Teams with best odds moved down. We got lucky.
Getting lucky shouldn't be a part of our roster building strategy anymore. It should be a bonus, but we don't need to rely on it anymore.

[td4mvp2k]

It is.
We didn't hit the jackpot, but this was a serious lottery win. Harper would've been the undisputed #1 pick last year.



You know that 14% odds are just that. Teams with best odds moved down. We got lucky.
Getting lucky shouldn't be a part of our roster building strategy anymore. It should be a bonus, but we don't need to rely on it anymore.
last year was one of the worst class in history.. he wouldnt be a top 3 in next years draft considering spurs history i dont think taking a risk would be a problem in the lottery.

[LeBowen]

last year was one of the worst class in history.. he wouldnt be a top 3 in next years draft considering spurs history i dont think taking a risk would be a problem in the lottery.

People like you make me wish we drop down in every lottery.
Greed that knows no bounds and hoping for more blind luck when we already have more than enough to create a contending roster.

[heyheymymy]

Gamblers fallacy. Take the chips to the house and cash out without thinking twice. People want to keep rolling back in for more and that's how you give it all back. Spurs hit the jackpot time to walk away.

[exstatic]

It's going to be hard for the Hawks to not make the playoffs next year.

That’s what people said this year. They tried in a tankathon year, and were still in the lottery. There’s a lot of chatter that Trae may want out because it’s clear that their ownership will never put a top team around him, being unwilling to even pay basic luxury tax money.

[cd98]

Why does everyone keep "hoping" guys are gonna all of the sudden learn how to shoot 3s at a 40% rate after not doing so for 15-18 years?

Maybe a few have improved their shot in the past but the majority don't that much.

This team needs to DRAFT and TRADE FOR 3 and D guys. Harper at 2 is no brainer but 14 and 38 could have potential either way.

Players that work hard on shooting can improve. I think Sochan works very hard on it and I think he can become a capable 3 point shooter. Will he become that in the Spurs timeline? I don't know. Has to happen for him this year. We'll see.

[rankingtear]

Givony already reported that spurms would draft this guy. He is the king of draft intel close this thread now.

[heyheymymy]

I tried looking at deals built around swapping #1 and #2 just because the fit may work better possibly but the Mavericks are almost unhelpable. Such a terrible situation because really AD is the best trade asset but you can't just get rid of him after the Luka thing and I kinda like a AD/Giannis front court concept at least loosely. Then Kyrie being out injured for next season ruins everything anyway because AD/Harper wouldn't as likely contend right away but if Harper was behind a healthy Kyrie maybe that's different. Best Mavs can trade are Klaynus and PJ totaling like 30MM when Giannis is 48MM. Kyrie is like dead money sunk into the outlook. Just an abysmal situation no one is going to take the Caleb Martins and Naji Marshalls at face value and Flagg is going to be trapped there.

Tried doing 4 team deals with NOLA/PHI etc but can't get the pieces to work. Like taking a step back to #7 but you also get TMIII plus another future FRP? It's interesting but not enough to consider. There's something in there if you want to get surgical with a big swap around because some teams have nearby picks and different wants and needs but fit be damned I am with Harper in San Antonio and Wemby is already our #1.

[SpursBills]

I tried looking at deals built around swapping #1 and #2 just because the fit may work better possibly but the Mavericks are almost unhelpable. Such a terrible situation because really AD is the best trade asset but you can't just get rid of him after the Luka thing and I kinda like a AD/Giannis front court concept at least loosely. Then Kyrie being out injured for next season ruins everything anyway because AD/Harper wouldn't as likely contend right away but if Harper was behind a healthy Kyrie maybe that's different. Best Mavs can trade are Klaynus and PJ totaling like 30MM when Giannis is 48MM. Kyrie is like dead money sunk into the outlook. Just an abysmal situation no one is going to take the Caleb Martins and Naji Marshalls at face value and Flagg is going to be trapped there.

Tried doing 4 team deals with NOLA/PHI etc but can't get the pieces to work. Like taking a step back to #7 but you also get TMIII plus another future FRP? It's interesting but not enough to consider. There's something in there if you want to get surgical with a big swap around because some teams have nearby picks and different wants and needs but fit be damned I am with Harper in San Antonio and Wemby is already our #1.

Unfortunately there's really no way that the Mavs ever trade Flagg for Harper. Nico was willing to trade a top 2 big playmaking guard just entering his prime for an injury prone two-way big leaving his prime. Now that he's got a chance to draft the two way big/wing of his dreams, he's not going to turn around and trade him for a shorter, probably worse big playmaking guard. Flagg is the better prospect and represents the archetype that Nico values above any other, I'm not convinced there's any player short of Wemby that Nico personally would Flagg for based on what we've seen.

It'd be like asking Brian Wright to trade Dylan Harper for...basically Ace Bailey in a vacuum knowing everything we know about what the Spurs front office likes (jumbo ball handlers, high IQ, positional versatility) and doesn't like

[mo7888]

Unfortunately there's really no way that the Mavs ever trade Flagg for Harper. Nico was willing to trade a top 2 big playmaking guard just entering his prime for an injury prone two-way big leaving his prime. Now that he's got a chance to draft the two way big/wing of his dreams, he's not going to turn around and trade him for a shorter, probably worse big playmaking guard. Flagg is the better prospect and represents the archetype that Nico values above any other, I'm not convinced there's any player short of Wemby that Nico personally would Flagg for based on what we've seen.

It'd be like asking Brian Wright to trade Dylan Harper for...basically Ace Bailey in a vacuum knowing everything we know about what the Spurs front office likes (jumbo ball handlers, high IQ, positional versatility) and doesn't like

Not that they'd do either, but they'd probably move AD for future picks/players, let Kyrie expire and build around Flagg before they trade Flagg.

[Obstructed_View]

Flagg is Luka with a work ethic. Nobody in their right mind trades that for anything.

That said, nobody in their right mind trades Luka for Street Clothes and a Taco Cabana gift certificate.

[Biggems]

If Harper is the best player on the board, you run that card to Silver. I don't care if we have Fox, Castle, Vassell, and Champ.you add elite talent and don't think twice about it.

The season is long. If you have quality depth, you will lower the risk for injury. You will also go into the playoffs with a fresher unit.

I am not opposed to trading away the bottom of the roster. I wonder if we could steal a few more 2nds for the likes of Wesley and Branham.

[Dex]

Flagg is Luka with a work ethic. Nobody in their right mind trades that for anything.

That said, nobody in their right mind trades Luka for Street Clothes and a Taco Cabana gift certificate.

Flagg is not Luka.

Luka came into the league as a bonafide stud and has proven it every year (yes, despite his conditioning issues).

Flagg is still a good 2-3 years away from reaching Luka levels, and even that isn't guaranteed.

I thing Flagg will end up being a good player, but people acting like he is the next Bird and I just don't see it.

[Obstructed_View]

Flagg is not Luka.

Luka came into the league as a bonafide stud and has proven it every year (yes, despite his conditioning issues).

Flagg is still a good 2-3 years away from reaching Luka levels, and even that isn't guaranteed.

I thing Flagg will end up being a good player, but people acting like he is the next Bird and I just don't see it.

Yeah, that's why Luka was the number one pick, right?

[Dex]

Yeah, that's why Luka was the number one pick, right?

Not sure what the argument is here?

Luka wasn't the #1 pick because two teams were dumb enough to draft Deandre Ayton and Marvin fucking Bagley ahead of him. How'd that work out for them?

Regardless of draft position, my point is that Luka was the more polished player coming into the draft, and Flagg has a long ways to go before he deserves to be considered on Luka's level.

[Guru of Nothing]

I tried looking at deals built around swapping #1 and #2 just because the fit may work better possibly but the Mavericks are almost unhelpable. Such a terrible situation because really AD is the best trade asset but you can't just get rid of him after the Luka thing and I kinda like a AD/Giannis front court concept at least loosely. Then Kyrie being out injured for next season ruins everything anyway because AD/Harper wouldn't as likely contend right away but if Harper was behind a healthy Kyrie maybe that's different. Best Mavs can trade are Klaynus and PJ totaling like 30MM when Giannis is 48MM. Kyrie is like dead money sunk into the outlook. Just an abysmal situation no one is going to take the Caleb Martins and Naji Marshalls at face value and Flagg is going to be trapped there.

Tried doing 4 team deals with NOLA/PHI etc but can't get the pieces to work. Like taking a step back to #7 but you also get TMIII plus another future FRP? It's interesting but not enough to consider. There's something in there if you want to get surgical with a big swap around because some teams have nearby picks and different wants and needs but fit be damned I am with Harper in San Antonio and Wemby is already our #1.

Remember that time Ted Beneke "inherited" $621,552.33 from Great Aunt Birgid? and instead of paying his IRS bill with the money, he invested in hookers and blow.

[Obstructed_View]

Not sure what the argument is here?

Luka wasn't the #1 pick because two teams were dumb enough to draft Deandre Ayton and Marvin fucking Bagley ahead of him. How'd that work out for them?

Regardless of draft position, my point is that Luka was the more polished player coming into the draft, and Flagg has a long ways to go before he deserves to be considered on Luka's level.

The argument is that you are looking at Luka now with hindsight, and the reality is that he wasn't what he is now before he was drafted, or two teams wouldn't have passed on him. You have no idea what CF will be, but he's more highly touted than Luka was at this stage, and he's established that he has a top work ethic and will likely never show up to camp 30 pounds overweight. From Nico's standpoint, Flagg checks all the boxes that Luka, great as he is, didn't. Even a cretin like Nico is smart enough not to trade him away.

[Dex]

The argument is that you are looking at Luka now with hindsight, and the reality is that he wasn't what he is now before he was drafted, or two teams wouldn't have passed on him. You have no idea what CF will be, but he's more highly touted than Luka was at this stage, and he's established that he has a top work ethic and will likely never show up to camp 30 pounds overweight. From Nico's standpoint, Flagg checks all the boxes that Luka, great as he is, didn't. Even a cretin like Nico is smart enough not to trade him away.

I agree with all of this.

But, Luka also came in as a seasoned professional playing in the Euro-leagues.

Flagg played one year for Duke, where he was very good...but again, if I had to choose rookie Luka or rookie Cooper, I take Luka every time.

Maybe it's just me, but I thing Flagg is over-hyped, and I would say that even if we had the #1 pick. We've seen a lot of guys of his nature come into the NBA and flame out.

[Obstructed_View]

I agree with all of this.

But, Luka also came in as a seasoned professional playing in the Euro-leagues.

Flagg played one year for Duke, where he was very good...but again, if I had to choose rookie Luka or rookie Cooper, I take Luka every time.

Maybe it's just me, but I thing Flagg is over-hyped, and I would say that even if we had the #1 pick. We've seen a lot of guys of his nature come into the NBA and flame out.

Those are all reasonable points. There is no question that Luka is magical. He's incredible to watch.

Knowing what we know now, you take Luka every time. Of course you do. But that's because we know what Luka turned into and we don't yet know what Flagg will be. Again, I completely agree.

That said, we know that Flagg, whether he's great or not, will not have conditioning issues. If that's actually the reason Dallas traded him, then, as I said, there is zero chance they trade the pick.

It's possible Flagg is overhyped. It's also possible that being white gives teams pause. People thought Luka was overhyped and that Mark Cuban was crazy. I am a little sad the Spurs missed number one just because having a solid pro at small forward potentially turns this team into a juggernaut for the next decade. The Spurs would take Flagg and not care if he never develops into a superstar as long as he works hard, plays team ball and focuses on defense.

[heyheymymy]

You can talk about AD/Flagg/Irving but what if you have to strike through the AD/Irving part. Sure maybe they stay healthy and connect or it could basically be Flagg and a mess with low flexibility to restructure. As saved at the Mavs are they are still kinda fucked. But if healthy I see the appeal of that trio for sure.

[cjw]

trading the pick should be on the table and getting a ransom from a team like the wizards... next years draft looks better at the top.

You don’t trade the second pick for a pick that could potentially be a top four pick. Yes, the Wizards should stink, but that doesn’t guarantee anything. They would need to give up their 2026, 2027 swap and 2028 for the second pick. Maybe you extinguish the 2027 swap if their 2026 pick is in the top four if that’s allowed.

[Holt's Cat]

I think adding Castle and Fox makes keeping the pick and taking Harper more likely.

If Spurs weren’t making progress in building supporting cast for Wemby there might be more pressure to do a deal.

Path forward seems clear, especially with the future picks and swaps over next 2 to 3 years.

Elite talent on rookie contracts is a great thing to have.

[Ice009]

Yeah, that's why Luka was the number one pick, right?

I knew he was the number 1 pick. It's not our fault NBA execs were absolutely stupid drafting other players ahead of him. It's not our fault Phoenix wanted Ayton. It's not our fault Sacramento fucked up. I wanted the Spurs to do whatever they could to trade with either Phoenix or Sacramento to draft him. Phoenix unfortunately wasn't feasible due to Kawhi having no interest going there. Spurs fans here at ST also identified Luka as a bonafide star before that draft. I'd say maybe the passed on him because he played in Europe. That might have been a factor. I actually watched him before that draft and thought he was legit, and I don't really ever watch college or European basketball. When I was watching Luka, I thought he had the potential to be a Manu like player and be as good as Manu at some point. I was actually wrong as he exceeded my expectations really quickly which made it even worse that the Mavs got him.

Atlanta also screwed up (not sure if they wanted to keep him or not, or if that was arranged with Dallas before the draft?). It also sucks that he's now gone to the Lakers as I've wanted to watch him, but can't ever go for him being on teams like the Mavericks or Lakers. Same with Cooper, I really want to watch the guy play well and succeed, but don't know if I can with him being on the Mavericks. Maybe I'll have to try and forget about the rivalry and watch him a bit.


Those are all reasonable points. There is no question that Luka is magical. He's incredible to watch.

Knowing what we know now, you take Luka every time. Of course you do. But that's because we know what Luka turned into and we don't yet know what Flagg will be. Again, I completely agree.

That said, we know that Flagg, whether he's great or not, will not have conditioning issues. If that's actually the reason Dallas traded him, then, as I said, there is zero chance they trade the pick.

It's possible Flagg is overhyped. It's also possible that being white gives teams pause. People thought Luka was overhyped and that Mark Cuban was crazy. I am a little sad the Spurs missed number one just because having a solid pro at small forward potentially turns this team into a juggernaut for the next decade. The Spurs would take Flagg and not care if he never develops into a superstar as long as he works hard, plays team ball and focuses on defense.

Yeah, this is why I wanted Flagg too. Could have worked great here, and I am sure he wanted it too when it got down to the last four, last two, I am sure he wanted it too :(. Oh well, I've since starting looking at Harper and now I am envisioning a different kind of team and play. I'm looking at it as having another TP/Manu type player (or Cunnigham/Harden as Dylan compares himself to) to add to what could already be our new TP in Fox and a Manu/TP combination player in Castle (again, it's a projection, I'm not saying they're already those players). I'll take adding a guy that could as good or better than both of those guys the Spurs have every day of the week.

[Obstructed_View]

I knew he was the number 1 pick. It's not our fault NBA execs were absolutely stupid drafting other players ahead of him. It's not our fault Phoenix wanted Ayton. It's not our fault Sacramento fucked up. I wanted the Spurs to do whatever they could to trade with either Phoenix or Sacramento to draft him. Phoenix unfortunately wasn't feasible due to Kawhi having no interest going there. Spurs fans here at ST also identified Luka as a bonafide star before that draft. I'd say maybe the passed on him because he played in Europe. That might have been a factor. I actually watched him before that draft and thought he was legit, and I don't really ever watch college or European basketball. When I was watching Luka, I thought he had the potential to be a Manu like player and be as good as Manu at some point. I was actually wrong as he exceeded my expectations really quickly which made it even worse that the Mavs got him.

Atlanta also screwed up (not sure if they wanted to keep him or not, or if that was arranged with Dallas before the draft?). It also sucks that he's now gone to the Lakers as I've wanted to watch him, but can't ever go for him being on teams like the Mavericks or Lakers. Same with Cooper, I really want to watch the guy play well and succeed, but don't know if I can with him being on the Mavericks. Maybe I'll have to try and forget about the rivalry and watch him a bit.



Yeah, this is why I wanted Flagg too. Could have worked great here, and I am sure he wanted it too when it got down to the last four, last two, I am sure he wanted it too :(. Oh well, I've since starting looking at Harper and now I am envisioning a different kind of team and play. I'm looking at it as having another TP/Manu type player (or Cunnigham/Harden as Dylan compares himself to) to add to what could already be our new TP in Fox and a Manu/TP combination player in Castle (again, it's a projection, I'm not saying they're already those players). I'll take adding a guy that could as good or better than both of those guys the Spurs have every day of the week.
Agree on all points. The thing to pray for to the basketball gods now is that all the guys on the Spurs are team first players who want to help Victor win championships. The lack of this is what killed OKC when they had Harden, Westbrook, and KD.

[Dejounte]

https://i.makeagif.com/media/9-30-2016/y9ufkC.gif

y’all. It’s been reported already the Spurs are 99.9% picking Harper

[sfernald]

Drives me nuts seeing how little court vision Keldon has and Ace would be similar but you're also subtracting Keldon's ability to just bull his way to the rim. Just wouldn't be surprised to him be 2025 Whitmore (though no way he drops as far as 20). Was reading something in the Toronto Sun where they were discussing how there might be an outside chance to get Bailey with their #9 pick with how rapidly his stock has been falling at the combine.


people finally figuring out ACE=GG++

[ambchang]

Harper at 2 is pretty much a no brainer. I can’t help but see him being our new age Manu and dominate the second teams. He can even get keldon, vassell and sochan good shots and perhaps make them useful, if those three are still around.

Fox, castle, sochan, Barnes wemby to start
Harper, Vassell, keldon, as heavy minutes rotation guys.
Wesley Mamu and bassey with spot minutes.
It’s not a bad team.

[dn0774]

Harper at 2 is pretty much a no brainer. I can’t help but see him being our new age Manu and dominate the second teams. He can even get keldon, vassell and sochan good shots and perhaps make them useful, if those three are still around.

Fox, castle, sochan, Barnes wemby to start
Harper, Vassell, keldon, as heavy minutes rotation guys.
Wesley Mamu and bassey with spot minutes.
It’s not a bad team.

Unless something crazy happens this summer with Sochan and/or Castles shooting I just can’t get on board with that starting lineup.

[exstatic]

I would agree if they weren't all subpar shooters, tbh.

Fox and Harper are both good catch and shoot guys. On that pod that was posted with Fox as a guest, he said his C&S number was 40% over the last 2 seasons. Supposedly, Harper was like 42% C&S. If you have enough guys moving the ball and bending the defense, the C&S looks will be there.

[exstatic]

You can talk about AD/Flagg/Irving but what if you have to strike through the AD/Irving part. Sure maybe they stay healthy and connect or it could basically be Flagg and a mess with low flexibility to restructure. As saved at the Mavs are they are still kinda fucked. But if healthy I see the appeal of that trio for sure.

I’m pretty convinced that Kyrie is done in Dallas, or only has a few recovery games at the end of next year.

[Mr. Body]

Would Fox be interested in contending right now in Dallas?

[mo7888]

Would Fox be interested in contending right now in Dallas?

I don't think so after he maneuvered his way here. What were you thinking about coming our way from D?

[Atl Spur]

Just trade Devin / keldon etc…for pieces we may need. The core should be fox, harp, castle, wemby

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6b3TPYsa7M

[BackHome]

Looking at picking #2 that salary stars around 12 mill first year and the 14th pick is around 5 mill - To me Sober would be a great pick but almost positive he will be gone so I would go with Wolf who played PF and worked with a big Center very well. I think the kid is super smart and plays with passion and can play big PF or back up Wemby in the second unit. To me I think he could get minutes his first year.

If those two are gone I think they will seriously consider Bryant at SF who gives a big who can play defense and not a bad shooter with potential upside. Or go with rising star Coward who has shown he can shoot the 3 ball at a great clip and 7,2 arms can definitely help him defend any SF players.

If those players are gone I think we either trade back with Nets or Utah and maybe grab a center or PF.

[SpursGenius]

Just trade Devin / keldon etc…for pieces we may need. The core should be fox, harp, castle, wemby
finally someone with a brain. The biggest Cancer on team is Keldon. Willing to give Devin one more year. Atleast he can shoot

[Robz4000]

Late to the party but those saying Luka > Flagg are coping imo. As good as Luka is Flagg will be better in 5 years tbh.

[sfernald]

I think there’s no limits on Flagg considering the rate he is improving. Whatever weaknesses he has in college he worked on and now they are strengths. People probably doubted his shooting most of all and he will probably be a 40%+ three point shooter in the league. I would say he has a chance to be the next LeBron if everything pans out. We will see. Very exciting times. Dallas really needs a good point guard for next year. Maybe CP3 should move over there?

[exstatic]

Would Fox be interested in contending right now in Dallas?

Dallas isn’t a contender, even with Fox. Way too thin.

[exstatic]

I think there’s no limits on Flagg considering the rate he is improving. Whatever weaknesses he has in college he worked on and now they are strengths. People probably doubted his shooting most of all and he will probably be a 40%+ three point shooter in the league. I would say he has a chance to be the next LeBron if everything pans out. We will see. Very exciting times. Dallas really needs a good point guard for next year. Maybe CP3 should move over there?

Doubt 40%. He doesn’t have to,though. If he shoots 36-37% on volume, that’s enough to activate his pump fake and drive.

[spurraider21]

Late to the party but those saying Luka > Flagg are coping imo. As good as Luka is Flagg will be better in 5 years tbh.
its within his range of outcomes but hard pressed to say thats his expectation/median outcome

[T Park]

Unless something crazy happens this summer with Sochan and/or Castles shooting I just can’t get on board with that starting lineup.

is crazy 5-7%?

[Baam]

His dad already trying to exfiltralte him... Could turn ugly.

[mudyez]

His dad already trying to exfiltralte him... Could turn ugly.

Source?

[exstatic]

His dad already trying to exfiltralte him... Could turn ugly.

His dad is just a bloviator. His mom is who you need to convince. They’re no longer married, and he says his mom, a former D1 player, is his coach.

[spursistan]

Late to the party but those saying Luka > Flagg are coping imo. As good as Luka is Flagg will be better in 5 years tbh.

Meh, it is you who seem to be carried away by the hype machine. Good luck matching or surpassing this ridiculous first 6 seasons start to an NBA career. Doncic is fat, lazy, and most likely "a functional alcoholic", but he is truly generational and an offensive system unto himself..

https://x.com/CrumpledJumper/status/1886595092065972549


its within his range of outcomes but hard pressed to say thats his expectation/median outcome

Exactly, unless you have Flagg pegged as future GOAT..And, yeah I would be melting down and coping hard if we missed out Wemby, but not Flagg..

[HankChinaski]

Fox, Harper, Castle will all 3 be on the floor starting some time this season. I think that is a solid backcourt if Harper and Castle shooting improves.

You fill out the forward and center holes with best fit at 14. I have been big on Fleming and Sorber but after watching lengthy feeds on guys like Raynaud, Wolf, Coward, McNeeley I am liking them too at 14

Good options to be had. Sign or trade reliable vets to fill out the roster in the front court and you have yourself a team heavily favorite to make the playoffs.

[ambchang]

Thinking back, teams that over thought high picks by going by need instead of BPA

Portland with Bowie instead of jordan because they already had Clyde. Didn’t work out.
Not really the case but Cavs pick Dougherty #1 instead of bias because of character issues. Boston picked bias #2 and he died of OD that night. So maybe BPA doesn’t work everytime. Worked out for cavs
GSW wanted a big ball handling forward, traded mitch Richmond away for Billy Owen’s at #3. Didn’t work out for GSW at all
Grizzlies got mvpau for shared Abdul Rahul. Clearly won this trade
Danny ferry forced his way out of the clippers and cavs traded Ron Harper for him. Clippers won this one bad.
Clippers traded down from mcdyess for Barry, with Rodney Rogers as the main trade piece. I’d say Denver won this trade.
Clippers chose the kandiman instead of Bibby, Carter or even antawn Jameson. They overthought the Center role and didn treat the BPA despite all the red flags. Stupid move.
Franchise forced his way out of Vancouver for a bunch of loose pieces. Vancouver lost big time.
Detroit chose darko instead of anybody else because they figured he can be molded for the long term. Biggest bust.
Milwaukee and Atlanta picked bogut and Marvin Williams instead of CP3 and Deron Williams because they wanted bigs. Bad move.
Grizzlies (you see this team here a LOT) got thabeet because he’s a big. Could’ve basically gotten anyone after him and have done better but namely harden, Rubio, Evan’s, curry, derozan. Man. Even Jrue holiday who was picked mid teens could’ve been so much better.
Cavs picked Bennett instead of anyone. No idea why they did that. Was a huge shock then if I remembered correctly.
Phoenix and Kings selected Ayton and bagley instead of the slow white European. Dumb move.
Warriors picked wiseman because they wanted an agile big. Nope.
And of course Josh primo. No one knows why.

I’d say most of the time the teams that messed up focused on a few attributes they wanted instead of the BPA.

Now for trading up/down:
Orlando traded webber for anfernee hardaway and 3 more picks. I thought it sort of worked out for both teams
Chicago trading chandler for brand. I think Chicago won this trade slightly.
Utah traded Martell Webster to Portland for Deron Williams. Utah won this trade
Portland traded foye for Roy. Clearly won this trade.
Bucks traded starbury for Jesus shuttlesworth. Trading down and won
Toronto trading Jameson for Carter. So that trade pretty convincingly.
Blazers traded up to get Aldridge. Chicago got tyus Thomas. Won this trade
Dallas traded down(?!?!!) to get Dirk, giving up tractor Taylor. Won this by a landslide.
Nets traded up from Tim Thomas to Keith van horn. Lots of players involved but overall I don’t think anybody won, maybe Philly if I have to choose one.
Boston traded down from 1 to 3 and got Tatum. Philly got Fultz. Filtz’s shoulder was messed up so we’d never know how good hed be if he was healthy but Boston clearly won this one.
Luka for Trae. I’d say Dallas won this one.


Didn’t talk about nephew or kobe as they weren’t really high picks, but I’m most cases, teams who traded up won. Tatum, Carter, Dirk and Allen were the exceptions, but these are huge wins. You can argue penny, but he was injured and I think Webber ended up having the better career.

[John B]

Thinking back, teams that over thought high picks by going by need instead of BPA

Portland with Bowie instead of jordan because they already had Clyde. Didn’t work out.
Not really the case but Cavs pick Dougherty #1 instead of bias because of character issues. Boston picked bias #2 and he died of OD that night. So maybe BPA doesn’t work everytime. Worked out for cavs
GSW wanted a big ball handling forward, traded mitch Richmond away for Billy Owen’s at #3. Didn’t work out for GSW at all
Grizzlies got mvpau for shared Abdul Rahul. Clearly won this trade
Danny ferry forced his way out of the clippers and cavs traded Ron Harper for him. Clippers won this one bad.
Clippers traded down from mcdyess for Barry, with Rodney Rogers as the main trade piece. I’d say Denver won this trade.
Clippers chose the kandiman instead of Bibby, Carter or even antawn Jameson. They overthought the Center role and didn treat the BPA despite all the red flags. Stupid move.
Franchise forced his way out of Vancouver for a bunch of loose pieces. Vancouver lost big time.
Detroit chose darko instead of anybody else because they figured he can be molded for the long term. Biggest bust.
Milwaukee and Atlanta picked bogut and Marvin Williams instead of CP3 and Deron Williams because they wanted bigs. Bad move.
Grizzlies (you see this team here a LOT) got thabeet because he’s a big. Could’ve basically gotten anyone after him and have done better but namely harden, Rubio, Evan’s, curry, derozan. Man. Even Jrue holiday who was picked mid teens could’ve been so much better.
Cavs picked Bennett instead of anyone. No idea why they did that. Was a huge shock then if I remembered correctly.
Phoenix and Kings selected Ayton and bagley instead of the slow white European. Dumb move.
Warriors picked wiseman because they wanted an agile big. Nope.
And of course Josh primo. No one knows why.

I’d say most of the time the teams that messed up focused on a few attributes they wanted instead of the BPA.

Now for trading up/down:
Orlando traded webber for anfernee hardaway and 3 more picks. I thought it sort of worked out for both teams
Chicago trading chandler for brand. I think Chicago won this trade slightly.
Utah traded Martell Webster to Portland for Deron Williams. Utah won this trade
Portland traded foye for Roy. Clearly won this trade.
Bucks traded starbury for Jesus shuttlesworth. Trading down and won
Toronto trading Jameson for Carter. So that trade pretty convincingly.
Blazers traded up to get Aldridge. Chicago got tyus Thomas. Won this trade
Dallas traded down(?!?!!) to get Dirk, giving up tractor Taylor. Won this by a landslide.
Nets traded up from Tim Thomas to Keith van horn. Lots of players involved but overall I don’t think anybody won, maybe Philly if I have to choose one.
Boston traded down from 1 to 3 and got Tatum. Philly got Fultz. Filtz’s shoulder was messed up so we’d never know how good hed be if he was healthy but Boston clearly won this one.
Luka for Trae. I’d say Dallas won this one.


Didn’t talk about nephew or kobe as they weren’t really high picks, but I’m most cases, teams who traded up won. Tatum, Carter, Dirk and Allen were the exceptions, but these are huge wins. You can argue penny, but he was injured and I think Webber ended up having the better career.

Portland drafting Greg Ogden for his height and long-term need for a big man , instead of the tweener Kevin Durant who has the length of a power forward but who cannot guard small. History proved this a catastrophic mistake

[scott]

Thinking back, teams that over thought high picks by going by need instead of BPA

Portland with Bowie instead of jordan because they already had Clyde. Didn’t work out.
Not really the case but Cavs pick Dougherty #1 instead of bias because of character issues. Boston picked bias #2 and he died of OD that night. So maybe BPA doesn’t work everytime. Worked out for cavs
GSW wanted a big ball handling forward, traded mitch Richmond away for Billy Owen’s at #3. Didn’t work out for GSW at all
Grizzlies got mvpau for shared Abdul Rahul. Clearly won this trade
Danny ferry forced his way out of the clippers and cavs traded Ron Harper for him. Clippers won this one bad.
Clippers traded down from mcdyess for Barry, with Rodney Rogers as the main trade piece. I’d say Denver won this trade.
Clippers chose the kandiman instead of Bibby, Carter or even antawn Jameson. They overthought the Center role and didn treat the BPA despite all the red flags. Stupid move.
Franchise forced his way out of Vancouver for a bunch of loose pieces. Vancouver lost big time.
Detroit chose darko instead of anybody else because they figured he can be molded for the long term. Biggest bust.
Milwaukee and Atlanta picked bogut and Marvin Williams instead of CP3 and Deron Williams because they wanted bigs. Bad move.
Grizzlies (you see this team here a LOT) got thabeet because he’s a big. Could’ve basically gotten anyone after him and have done better but namely harden, Rubio, Evan’s, curry, derozan. Man. Even Jrue holiday who was picked mid teens could’ve been so much better.
Cavs picked Bennett instead of anyone. No idea why they did that. Was a huge shock then if I remembered correctly.
Phoenix and Kings selected Ayton and bagley instead of the slow white European. Dumb move.
Warriors picked wiseman because they wanted an agile big. Nope.
And of course Josh primo. No one knows why.

I’d say most of the time the teams that messed up focused on a few attributes they wanted instead of the BPA.

Now for trading up/down:
Orlando traded webber for anfernee hardaway and 3 more picks. I thought it sort of worked out for both teams
Chicago trading chandler for brand. I think Chicago won this trade slightly.
Utah traded Martell Webster to Portland for Deron Williams. Utah won this trade
Portland traded foye for Roy. Clearly won this trade.
Bucks traded starbury for Jesus shuttlesworth. Trading down and won
Toronto trading Jameson for Carter. So that trade pretty convincingly.
Blazers traded up to get Aldridge. Chicago got tyus Thomas. Won this trade
Dallas traded down(?!?!!) to get Dirk, giving up tractor Taylor. Won this by a landslide.
Nets traded up from Tim Thomas to Keith van horn. Lots of players involved but overall I don’t think anybody won, maybe Philly if I have to choose one.
Boston traded down from 1 to 3 and got Tatum. Philly got Fultz. Filtz’s shoulder was messed up so we’d never know how good hed be if he was healthy but Boston clearly won this one.
Luka for Trae. I’d say Dallas won this one.


Didn’t talk about nephew or kobe as they weren’t really high picks, but I’m most cases, teams who traded up won. Tatum, Carter, Dirk and Allen were the exceptions, but these are huge wins. You can argue penny, but he was injured and I think Webber ended up having the better career.

The Darko pick continues to be one of the most pivotal moments in NBA history, IMO. How much of the NBA universe changes if DET simply takes any of the other 3 HOFers picked behind him?

[james evans]

First no.
Seconds. How would Philly agree to that ? Last thing they need is to add more salary to their already expensive core.
I know they wouldn't, just a suggestion lol

[james evans]

The Darko pick continues to be one of the most pivotal moments in NBA history, IMO. How much of the NBA universe changes if DET simply takes any of the other 3 HOFers picked behind him?
Darko could actually play. His problem is that he went to a team ran by Larry Brown. Larry Brown didn't young guys. This is the same guy that wouldn't play Lebron and Melo in the 2004 olympics as much. I didn't know how good Darko was until he was traded and his team was playing Detroit one game. IN that game, he was fuking Sheed up in the 4th quarter. Sometimes teams don't like to develop players and the player ends up crashing out. Also, we must consider that a lot of teams wanted Darko. Denver wanted him and the only thing that saved Kiki was having the 5th pick. Now that you look back on it, it's easy to say, "they screwed up", but only because they had a higher pick. I said last year before the draft, "whomever don't get the first pick in this draft will win" and we obviously got the ROY. People want to look smart after history has played out, ignoring the fact that we all have receipts. The same with the whole Durant/Oden pick. Teams were tanking to get Oden(including the Celtics). When Seattle gets th 2nd pick and Oden doesn't work out, they want to act like they were picking Durant even if they had the first pick.. BS.

[Mr. Body]

Portland drafting Greg Ogden for his height and long-term need for a big man , instead of the tweener Kevin Durant who has the length of a power forward but who cannot guard small. History proved this a catastrophic mistake

Greg Oden was extremely good. He was in the NCAA title game with Mike Conley, Corey Brewer, Joakim Noah, and Al Horford in it, and was far and away the best player.

[LeBowen]

Darko could actually play. His problem is that he went to a team ran by Larry Brown. Larry Brown didn't young guys. This is the same guy that wouldn't play Lebron and Melo in the 2004 olympics as much. I didn't know how good Darko was until he was traded and his team was playing Detroit one game. IN that game, he was fuking Sheed up in the 4th quarter. Sometimes teams don't like to develop players and the player ends up crashing out. Also, we must consider that a lot of teams wanted Darko. Denver wanted him and the only thing that saved Kiki was having the 5th pick. Now that you look back on it, it's easy to say, "they screwed up", but only because they had a higher pick. I said last year before the draft, "whomever don't get the first pick in this draft will win" and we obviously got the ROY. People want to look smart after history has played out, ignoring the fact that we all have receipts. The same with the whole Durant/Oden pick. Teams were tanking to get Oden(including the Celtics). When Seattle gets th 2nd pick and Oden doesn't work out, they want to act like they were picking Durant even if they had the first pick.. BS.

A while back I read one of Darko's interviews and it was kind of eye opening of how things worked before franchises started taking care of every single detail.
Long story short, he was a poor kid who never had much, suddenly moved halfway across the world and had an incomprehensible amount of money thrown at him.
No advice, no counseling, noone cared about what he does outside of practice and it went as well as expected.
Drinking, partying, buying cars, wasting money, it spiraled out of control and there was no going back.
He could've surely been a solid player, obviously still a bust considering the who was drafted behind him, but Pistons fucked up not just by picking him, but not caring about him whatsoever.
Sometimes we take the Spurs way for granted.

Oden was surely a bigger prospect than KD and could've been similar to Admiral if he stayed healthy.

[Baam]

If they have any doubt about that kid trading the pick is the play.

They could get serious assets and still pick a guy they like...

[Baam]

https://x.com/SpursReporter/status/1925446245956407517?t=4T8bgNDbsRxaXIQS1j5nFQ&s=19

[Ariel]

Oden was surely a bigger prospect than KD and could've been similar to Admiral if he stayed healthy.
Oden's health issues surely were there far before he ever got to Portland, he had a leg differential and other issues that made him a bigger risk than advertised, it was more about a poor risk evaluation than mishandling his career, much like it happened with Brandon Roy.

[LeBowen]

Always reliable Dusty Garza talking about smoke getting thicker. :lol

There's about 10% chance Harper isn't a Spur on the opening night.
5% for Nico making another retarded move and not taking Flagg.
5% for Spurs potentially trading for Giannis.

[Ariel]

Unless Spurs are getting back something ridiculous in return, just take the kid and roll with it, if by next year it becomes obvious that you can't have all three of Fox, Castle and Harper in your roster, then you move one of them in a better draft and with more certainty on who is the odd man out.

[spurraider21]

Oden's health issues surely were there far before he ever got to Portland, he had a leg differential and other issues that made him a bigger risk than advertised, it was more about a poor risk evaluation than mishandling his career, much like it happened with Brandon Roy.
whats crazy is everybody knew KD was a monster and would likely be a historic scorer. his comp i remember in college was being TMac in the body of KG. as a freshman he averaged 26/11 with 2 blocks and 2 steals on 47/40/82 shooting and was playing legit NBA minutes at 37mpg. he was the first freshman to ever win national player of the year. there were really very few questions about him other than being skinny

and despite all that, oden was still the consensus pick. that says a lot. he was special.

[exstatic]

https://x.com/SpursReporter/status/1925446245956407517?t=4T8bgNDbsRxaXIQS1j5nFQ&s=19

Dusty Garza? Really? You’re going to quote him in a forum built on people who left his old forum?

[Guru of Nothing]

Dusty Garza is the Bob Hill of of Skip Bayless's.

[Ariel]

whats crazy is everybody knew KD was a monster and would likely be a historic scorer. his comp i remember in college was being TMac in the body of KG. as a freshman he averaged 26/11 with 2 blocks and 2 steals on 47/40/82 shooting and was playing legit NBA minutes at 37mpg. he was the first freshman to ever win national player of the year. there were really very few questions about him other than being skinny

and despite all that, oden was still the consensus pick. that says a lot. he was special.
I don't remember who it was and I might be paraphrasing, but it was said at the time that you just had to see them move to make the right pick, one looked like an old man (Oden) while the other seemed to glide (Durant). I think fluidity and coordination are very often overshadowed by athleticism and power, but they are great predictors of upside. I remember watching Salaun's tape last year, and it was crazy to me anyone would want him at 8 for the Spurs. Lo and behold, he looks like a late 2nd rounder. Plenty of others in that mold get overhyped.

[Extra Stout]

Dusty Garza is the Bob Hill of of Skip Bayless's.
He grew up to be an engagement farming bot.

[NASpurs]

So Dusty is saying the 2nd pick may or may not be traded. No shit news at 11.

[Twisted_Dawg]

Dusty Garza? Really? You’re going to quote him in a forum built on people who left his old forum?

Left? Most of us were banned by the m'fer!

[Baam]

What are the odds they pick exactly at the position where the guy they like is mocked two years in a row. Very low imo, if they don't trade imo they just don't have any scouting backbone anymore.

They're too much value to pass up for a team that could get (and need) starters and still make a pick and too much trouble coming their way if Harper is a bust.

[Ice009]

What are the odds they pick exactly at the position where the guy they like is mocked two years in a row. Very low imo, if they don't trade imo they just don't have any scouting backbone anymore.

They're too much value to pass up for a team that could get (and need) starters and still make a pick and too much trouble coming their way if Harper is a bust.

I don't understand what you're saying. Can you rephrase that? Are you saying they shouldn't pick Harper or that they should trade the pick?

[benefactor]

What are the odds they pick exactly at the position where the guy they like is mocked two years in a row. Very low imo, if they don't trade imo they just don't have any scouting backbone anymore.

They're too much value to pass up for a team that could get (and need) starters and still make a pick and too much trouble coming their way if Harper is a bust.
You know, not everyone was made to talk basketball. Maybe you should take up needlepoint or punch yourself in the dick real hard?

[Guru of Nothing]

You know, not everyone was made to talk basketball. Maybe you should take up needlepoint or punch yourself in the dick real hard?

Just not at the same time. Boundaries are important.

[rascal]

What are the odds they pick exactly at the position where the guy they like is mocked two years in a row. Very low imo, if they don't trade imo they just don't have any scouting backbone anymore.

They're too much value to pass up for a team that could get (and need) starters and still make a pick and too much trouble coming their way if Harper is a bust.

Harper isn't going to be a bust. He's going to be the second best player on the Spurs behind Wemby.

[DPG21920]

Harper isn't going to be a bust. He's going to be the second best player on the Spurs behind Wemby.

Harper definitely can be a bust. There are plenty of valid concerns about his game. There are zero guarantees. I dont think he will be, but hes not some Lebron/Duncan level prospect to be clear.

[Ariel]

I don't understand what you're saying. Can you rephrase that? Are you saying they shouldn't pick Harper or that they should trade the pick?
I'm guessing he/she is saying
1) Spurs just taking whoever is mocked at their position is an indicator they don't have strong feelings towards any particular player.
2) Spurs should cash in on #2 now rather than taking the chance Harper is a bust. Bird in hand over 2 in the bush sort of thing
I disagree on 2 except if the offer is ridiculous, you take the talent with the star upside and Harper is that.
But 1, even if poorly made, I've felt for some time has a point. The flaw is pointing out drafts where Spurs had picks in a range where most of us all agreed with (Wemby at 1, Castle at 4, now Harper at 2). Making those picks isn't a strong indicator of drafting ability, but it also isn't evidence for the lack of it. Where this in my opinion does show, is that they NEVER move up or down, except for marginal stuff in the 2nd round. If you have a strong scouting department who believes in a prospect, you should be willing to move up or down as needed to make sure you get your guy or pick up assets and still getting your guy or another player close in value. Like, say, Dallas has made many times: traded down from 6 to 9 and still picked Nowitzki and a pick that they used to trade for Nash. Or when they gave up a future first to move up from 5 to 3 and take Luka. That is a strong indicator they had a clear target and were willing to deal with whatever obstacles were in their way to get them. If Spurs had landed 5 or 6 last year, would they have traded for 4, or would we be complaining right now about Salaun looking like Primo 2.0? Why don't they ever nail a 2nd rounder in what seems like ages? (they got a nice role player in Tre Jones who could play for a tanking team but has little market value). It's something I've wonder before.

[rascal]

Harper definitely can be a bust. There are plenty of valid concerns about his game. There are zero guarantees. I dont think he will be, but hes not some Lebron/Duncan level prospect to be clear.

He's a special talent. He's not going to be a bust outside of injury.

Can't believe how people don't see how this guy is going to be something special.

[DPG21920]

He can be special, everyone sees that which is why hes the consensus number 2 pick.

[exstatic]

What are the odds they pick exactly at the position where the guy they like is mocked two years in a row. Very low imo, if they don't trade imo they just don't have any scouting backbone anymore.

They're too much value to pass up for a team that could get (and need) starters and still make a pick and too much trouble coming their way if Harper is a bust.

Argle Bargle.

[exstatic]

Harper definitely can be a bust. There are plenty of valid concerns about his game. There are zero guarantees. I dont think he will be, but hes not some Lebron/Duncan level prospect to be clear.

High floor, high ceiling. You take and keep that every time.

[Ice009]

Take that number two pick and run, don't walk, run away with it and get start working to unleash that three guard lineup on the NBA next season. Only way to even think about giving it up is if the offer is well in the Spurs' favour, if not, no thanks.

[Mr. Body]

Always reliable Dusty Garza talking about smoke getting thicker. :lol

There's about 10% chance Harper isn't a Spur on the opening night.
5% for Nico making another retarded move and not taking Flagg.
5% for Spurs potentially trading for Giannis.

I don't think there's a chance the Spurs trade the #2 for Giannis. Maybe like half a percent chance.

I do think there's a chance Nico takes Dylan Harper and Flagg drops. In a normal world, no, but in this case, yes, there's a slim chance. There's even a hilarious but extremely thin chance he takes Bailey.

[rankingtear]

He's a special talent. He's not going to be a bust outside of injury.

Can't believe how people don't see how this guy is going to be something special.

Hard to see with no tourney games.

[mo7888]

He's a special talent. He's not going to be a bust outside of injury.

Can't believe how people don't see how this guy is going to be something special.

Shaedon Sharpe can't miss...he's got next etc, etc. I expect Harper to pan out, but I also expected Sharpe to be better than he is. Things aren't always what they seem to fans... That said, do I take Harper @ 2? Absolutely, but let's not anoint him as something that he's not yet.

[RC_Drunkford]

Hard to see with no tourney games.

I don't think people understand how bad the rest of that team was. Same people bring up Bailey's lack of playmaking, but it would've looked a lot better if his teammates could actually make lay ups. Harper scoring like that on such a trash team make his stats even more impressive.

[Teamduncan21]

Always reliable Dusty Garza talking about smoke getting thicker. :lol

There's about 10% chance Harper isn't a Spur on the opening night.
5% for Nico making another retarded move and not taking Flagg.
5% for Spurs potentially trading for Giannis.

His comment was kinda non sense though. Like spurs draft the pick or trade the pick. Like of course.
So the only added value is the pick would be Harper.

[Ariel]

I don't think there's a chance the Spurs trade the #2 for Giannis. Maybe like half a percent chance.

I do think there's a chance Nico takes Dylan Harper and Flagg drops. In a normal world, no, but in this case, yes, there's a slim chance. There's even a hilarious but extremely thin chance he takes Bailey.
Chances Nico Harrison passes on Cooper Flagg are about the same as those of his family being abducted by a Spurs fan and him being coerced into doing so. Any volunteers? :lol

[exstatic]

Shaedon Sharpe can't miss...he's got next etc, etc. I expect Harper to pan out, but I also expected Sharpe to be better than he is. Things aren't always what they seem to fans... That said, do I take Harper @ 2? Absolutely, but let's not anoint him as something that he's not yet.

I’m not sure why you would expect that. He was a HS wonder with questionable eligibility who chose not to play at UK. Basically like someone from OTE or the GLI, wasting a year when he could have been learning.

[LeBowen]

I’m not sure why you would expect that. He was a HS wonder with questionable eligibility who chose not to play at UK. Basically like someone from OTE or the GLI, wasting a year when he could have been learning.

The real question is if he shoots better than Aaron Gordon.

[Mr. Body]

Chances Nico Harrison passes on Cooper Flagg are about the same as those of his family being abducted by a Spurs fan and him being coerced into doing so. Any volunteers? :lol

There really isn't a zero percent chance he takes Harper.

[Mr. Body]

Shaeden Sharpe decided to sit on his ass during college even when he got eligibility and could have played. He's non-competitive. I saw James Wiseman in terms of wanting to hide himself to protect his draft stock. Now, he's obviously much, much better than Wiseman in terms of... everything. But that mentality is gross. Harper is a gamer. He didn't quit on a very bad Rutgers team. Even when he got sick and then got hurt. he came back and kept going.

[mo7888]

I’m not sure why you would expect that. He was a HS wonder with questionable eligibility who chose not to play at UK. Basically like someone from OTE or the GLI, wasting a year when he could have been learning.

I had him 10th overall. It wasn't a wild miss, but he has been short of that expectation. Most pundits had him higher than I did and rascal, who i was responding too, had him higher.

[Ariel]

Shaedon Sharpe can't miss...he's got next etc, etc. I expect Harper to pan out, but I also expected Sharpe to be better than he is. Things aren't always what they seem to fans... That said, do I take Harper @ 2? Absolutely, but let's not anoint him as something that he's not yet.
Shaedon Sharpe wasn't "can't miss", those don't fall to 7 and most of us didn't even want him for the Spurs at 9.

[Mr. Body]

People take athletic profiles as "can't miss." One of the most fallacious things about evaluating prospects.

Sharpe is in the LaMello Ball "doesn't actually want to play basketball" category.

[jjspur]

The #2 pick is a no brainer. Just take Harper. Don't over think it or reach badly like the team did in the 21 draft when pee pee boy Primo was taken. In fact at least a dozen or so better players including Bassey and Mamu who were taken in the 50's in that same draft, are still in the NBA and on the Spurs while Primo is long gone from the NBA and is now just a sad statistic. Whomever decided to draft Primo, so much for thinking you're smarter than the rest of the NBA. Guess what ass clown(s) - You're not !

So the lesson here is, sure the spurs should do their homework, but unless Harper has similar issues like Primo (which I don't think he does) just select Harper. End of story.

I've always maintained that there are two camps in the spurs organization that do drafting - a smart one and a dumb one. The smart camp usually makes the smart or safe pick that the spurs are known for, and the dumb camp that reaches for players few have ever heard of or trade for picks that have little value.

This draft is an opportunity for the spurs to significantly improve the team. I hope they don't blow it by overthinking or overreaching the picks.

[rankingtear]

I don't think people understand how bad the rest of that team was. Same people bring up Bailey's lack of playmaking, but it would've looked a lot better if his teammates could actually make lay ups. Harper scoring like that on such a trash team make his stats even more impressive.

It is his fault he invited his butt buddy to hoard all the NIL money.

[mo7888]

Shaedon Sharpe wasn't "can't miss", those don't fall to 7 and most of us didn't even want him for the Spurs at 9.

You're missing the point.... which was that most pundits had him higher than I did and he didn't reach their prediction...and the 2nd (and main) point is that rascal had him very high, in fact, he was certain Sharpe wouldn't miss yet he did. So him saying Harper won't miss isn't compelling...

[Ariel]

You're missing the point.... which was that most pundits had him higher than I did and he didn't reach their prediction...and the 2nd (and main) point is that rascal had him very high, in fact, he was certain Sharpe wouldn't miss yet he did. So him saying Harper won't miss isn't compelling...
If that's a crack at rascal then it's fine, but I'm going by my own assessment on both of them pre-draft. I think Sharpe had more in common with Cam Whitmore and Ace Bailey than he does with Harper, in terms of prospect profile (uber athletic, scoring minded, low assists, questionable feel for the game, character -selfish?-). I'm a lot more confident on Harper hitting at the next level.

[mo7888]

If that's a crack at rascal then it's fine, but I'm going by my own assessment on both of them pre-draft. I think Sharpe had more in common with Cam Whitmore and Ace Bailey than he does with Harper, in terms of prospect profile (uber athletic, scoring minded, low assists, questionable feel for the game, character -selfish?-). I'm a lot more confident on Harper hitting at the next level.

You got it... there are several players who underperformed i could have used...Kuminga, Green ,sugs, etc... I used Sharpe because it's the best example talking to rascal

[Mr. Body]

IMO Sharpe is exactly that mold, AAU God who either can't or doesn't want to compete at an actually high level.

[exstatic]

IMO Sharpe is exactly that mold, AAU God who either can't or doesn't want to compete at an actually high level.

This is one of the reasons that I’ve always been down on players from the now defunct GLI and from OTE. They just want to sit out a year in a nothing program while waiting for draft eligibility. There no real development. It’s also why I’m high on Castle. He accepted the challenge of learning, being coached, and playing a role when he was a top 2 PG prospect, and could have written a 30% USG ticket at almost any university. It’s also why I’m high on Fears. He reclassified, showed up as a 17 year old #40 prospect to a major basketball conference (SEC) program, and burned down every expectation anyone had for him right to the ground. He’s now mocking at #5 on TaT.

[rascal]

You're missing the point.... which was that most pundits had him higher than I did and he didn't reach their prediction...and the 2nd (and main) point is that rascal had him very high, in fact, he was certain Sharpe wouldn't miss yet he did. So him saying Harper won't miss isn't compelling...

Sharpe hasn't missed. You talk like he's a bust.
Dropped 18.5 a game last year. Portland is still high on him. Still has room for growth as a more efficient scorer.

He wasn't drafted for his defense.
He gets guarded on his 3 point attempts unlike Sochan.

Both Sharpe and Harper will be future all stars.

[mo7888]

Sharpe hasn't missed. You talk like he's a bust.
Dropped 18.5 a game last year. Portland is still high on him. Still has room for growth as a more efficient scorer.

He wasn't drafted for his defense.
He gets guarded on his 3 point attempts unlike Sochan.

Both Sharpe and Harper will be future all stars.

Lol

[ambchang]

I won’t say there is no chance mavs pass on cooper, but there is only one single scenario that would happen, and that’s if the rumours of the mavs burning Dallas so bad they can get run out of town to Vegas, where they get all that gambling money in casinos with the basketball arena as a gigantic entertainment complex.

The main reason people thought Nico would pass on Flagg is because he already did something incredibly stupid, which was trading away Luka.

There were three running theories for this:
1) Nico got ordered by ownership to do it to get themselves run out of town to Vegas. Covered above
2) Nico valued defence and believe Luka will never lead them to a title because of that. Flagg plays defence as well as any prospect. That’s his calling card. So if d is the reason traded Luka, he would actually focus on getting Flagg because Flagg is pretty much a can’t miss prospect on d
3) Nico is trying to erase the organization of the last regime and is on a power grab. This has nothing to do with getting Flagg. In fact him getting Flagg would be a huge feather on his cap to start this new regime.

Some say Nico is just incompetent and he is incompetent enough to bypass Flagg. I don’t see it that way at all. He built pretty much the ideal team around Luka before he traded Luka away. He’s not stupid, so I’m not even entertaining this point. Besides, even isiah Thomas and Michael jordan wouldn’t pass on Flagg, it’s that obvious.

[Mr. Body]

I won’t say there is no chance mavs pass on cooper, but there is only one single scenario that would happen, and that’s if the rumours of the mavs burning Dallas so bad they can get run out of town to Vegas, where they get all that gambling money in casinos with the basketball arena as a gigantic entertainment complex.

The main reason people thought Nico would pass on Flagg is because he already did something incredibly stupid, which was trading away Luka.

There were three running theories for this:
1) Nico got ordered by ownership to do it to get themselves run out of town to Vegas. Covered above
2) Nico valued defence and believe Luka will never lead them to a title because of that. Flagg plays defence as well as any prospect. That’s his calling card. So if d is the reason traded Luka, he would actually focus on getting Flagg because Flagg is pretty much a can’t miss prospect on d
3) Nico is trying to erase the organization of the last regime and is on a power grab. This has nothing to do with getting Flagg. In fact him getting Flagg would be a huge feather on his cap to start this new regime.

Some say Nico is just incompetent and he is incompetent enough to bypass Flagg. I don’t see it that way at all. He built pretty much the ideal team around Luka before he traded Luka away. He’s not stupid, so I’m not even entertaining this point. Besides, even isiah Thomas and Michael jordan wouldn’t pass on Flagg, it’s that obvious.

My sense that Nico could take Harper, albeit extraordinarily unlikely, is solely based on how Dylan Harper fits his team better than Flagg does. Flagg plays the same position that Anthony Davis does. Without Kyrie, and even with Kyrie, they need a heavy guard presence for balance, and that is Dylan Harper. He may see Flagg as a high-end support piece and Harper as a high-end load-carrying star.

It doesn't take too much of a leap to try to see things from Nico's perspective. He's already laid out his vision with the Luka trade. Again, don't think it happens at all, but it's within his patterns.

[baseline bum]

I've always maintained that there are two camps in the spurs organization that do drafting - a smart one and a dumb one. The smart camp usually makes the smart or safe pick that the spurs are known for, and the dumb camp that reaches for players few have ever heard of or trade for picks that have little value.

Primo is their only real fuck up. Yeah Samanic never amounted to anything but that's a risk taking an upside swing at 19.

[baseline bum]

This is one of the reasons that I’ve always been down on players from the now defunct GLI and from OTE. They just want to sit out a year in a nothing program while waiting for draft eligibility. There no real development.

Mostly agree but damn did the both of us miss on Amen Thompson. I didn't like him either in the draft but love watching him now.

[exstatic]

Mostly agree but damn did the both of us miss on Amen Thompson. I didn't like him either in the draft but love watching him now.

He is doing what he is doing on sheer physical talent, as is his brother. Didn’t understand the scope. He’s kind of an outsized version of what they said Scoot would be. Even if he doesn’t get a 3 pointer, he could still be like a supercharged version of Iguodala. What he is,however, is in no way due to OTE.

[The Truth #6]

I'd say Nico is arrogant and stubborn more than simply unpredictable. He holds Kobe as the gold standard for work ethic. Luka is more like Shaq if compared to Kobe specifically in regards to work ethic. Nico hated Luka's work ethic. Trading him is dumb in the way that he did it though. Nico made it way too personal and obviously got a shit return. If he was like Presti and made a killing, then different story.

But unless he thinks Flagg is lazy, which no one does, then I don't see any world where he passes on Flagg.

[scott]

I'd say Nico is arrogant and stubborn more than simply unpredictable. He holds Kobe as the gold standard for work ethic. Luka is more like Shaq if compared to Kobe specifically in regards to work ethic. Nico hated Luka's work ethic. Trading him is dumb in the way that he did it though. Nico made it way too personal and obviously got a shit return. If he was like Presti and made a killing, then different story.

But unless he thinks Flagg is lazy, which no one does, then I don't see any world where he passes on Flagg.

If Flagg wanted to be a Spur, here is the three step plan

1. Wear a Fire Nico t-shirt in every press conference
2. Use #FireNico hashtag in every IG post
3. Start reposting Fire Nico chant videos across multiple social media platforms

More than Nico might be a dumbass, I think he's an egomaniac. Which is weird, because if you watch his end of season presser he also come off as a huge cuck :lol

[Mr. Body]

I'd say Nico is arrogant and stubborn more than simply unpredictable. He holds Kobe as the gold standard for work ethic. Luka is more like Shaq if compared to Kobe specifically in regards to work ethic. Nico hated Luka's work ethic. Trading him is dumb in the way that he did it though. Nico made it way too personal and obviously got a shit return. If he was like Presti and made a killing, then different story.

But unless he thinks Flagg is lazy, which no one does, then I don't see any world where he passes on Flagg.

I'm not saying Nico is unpredictable. I'm saying drafting Harper for him is predictable. He traded Luka - he says - to form a better balanced team (etc.), and Harper balances his team much better than Flagg does.

[The Truth #6]

I'm not saying Nico is unpredictable. I'm saying drafting Harper for him is predictable. He traded Luka - he says - to form a better balanced team (etc.), and Harper balances his team much better than Flagg does.

I think you're misinterpreting him. He said he values defense and Flagg is a great defender. I don't see how passing on Flagg is predictable. And he has no personal grudge against Flagg.

[Mr. Body]

I think you're misinterpreting him. He said he values defense and Flagg is a great defender. I don't see how passing on Flagg is predictable. And he has no personal grudge against Flagg.

Nope, he's also said he wants a balanced team.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Nico will get JFKed before he can e-mail the Flagg trade papers to the NBA.

[The Truth #6]

Nope, he's also said he wants a balanced team.

This sounds like magical thinking that Nico is giving Flagg to the Spurs. But sure, it's fun to hope for, I guess.

[mo7888]

This sounds like magical thinking that Nico is giving Flagg to the Spurs. But sure, it's fun to hope for, I guess.

I don't think anybody is predicting it. They're just recognizing that Harper is a fit for them and that Nico has already done dumber things.

[LeBowen]

Kidd could also be an influence, maybe he sees some of his game in Harper.

[CGD]

Kidd could also be an influence, maybe he sees some of his game in Harper.

Is this Harper at 1 just chatter here, or have the gossip rags said it somewhere?

[LeBowen]

Is this Harper at 1 just chatter here, or have the gossip rags said it somewhere?

There's no chatter, we're just hoping Mavs are retarded enough to do it, especially since Kidd and Nico aren't the smartest basketball minds out there. :lol

[Manu&Duncan fan]

This sounds like magical thinking that Nico is giving Flagg to the Spurs. But sure, it's fun to hope for, I guess.

Nico is at least giving some thoughts about drafting Harper. At least 30% chance IMO.

While AD is still playing well, Dallas wants to compete for a championship.

With Flagg, they would have to trade away at least one of their bigs and let AD plays Center that he hates. This messes up their chemistry.

With Harper, they'll be ready to run from day one and may be a contender next season.

Don't forget, Harper may end up being better than Flagg.

[Ice009]

Nico is at least giving some thoughts about drafting Harper. At least 30% chance IMO.

While AD is still playing well, Dallas wants to compete for a championship.

With Flagg, they would have to trade away at least one of their bigs and let AD plays Center that he hates. This messes up their chemistry.

With Harper, they'll be ready to run from day one and may be a contender next season.

Don't forget, Harper may end up being better than Flagg.

I think you've summed it up quite nicely. I would lower the 30% chance a bit down to about 15%, though, but yeah, I think Harper looks like a better fit as they already have AD and their other big men. They really need a good PG to set the table and score.

And yeah, there is a chance with Harper ending up better player. I wanted Flagg because I thought he's the best player without question, and also equally because I thought he fits the team better, but after the Spurs got the number 2 pick and a lot people here starting looking into it including myself, it seems Harper really does have the talent to be the best player of this draft. It's not a runaway choice between number 1 and 2 like I thought it was before the draft. There is a little bit of a debate to be had. I have really warmed up to the idea of running that 3 guard lineup and am very excited about it. I don't know who I'd want more as the gap has gotten closer and closer between the two.

I don't want to start anything about race, but I also think unfortunately that is coming into play here too. As it seems people are saying that Dallas/Texas, white homegrown player (not foreign), they can't pass that up, but when I hear stuff like that, I keep thinking, they should be looking at fit, talent, who projects to be the better player, who would fit their team better.

[Limguogolo]

Nico is like a cat coming out of the toilet bowl he fell into. He claims that trading Luka was exactly what he wanted to do to win right away (he lost, right away). Don't expect him to try to drink toilet water again. And soon, we will even say that Dallas is conservative in terms of trade and draft.

[pad300]

I haven't seen this in this on this board, and I'm not sure if either side would propose it, but:

#1 (Flagg)
for
#2(presumably Harper) and Castle

I'd probably do it if I was the spurs (but I think Flagg is something approaching a Luka level prospect...).

[Ice009]

Yeah, I'm not trading both Steph and the number 2 pick for him. No thanks. I appreciate you think he'll be that good (he very well could end up being that special), but as of now, I wouldn't do it.

[Mr. Body]

Nico is at least giving some thoughts about drafting Harper. At least 30% chance IMO.

While AD is still playing well, Dallas wants to compete for a championship.

With Flagg, they would have to trade away at least one of their bigs and let AD plays Center that he hates. This messes up their chemistry.

With Harper, they'll be ready to run from day one and may be a contender next season.

Don't forget, Harper may end up being better than Flagg.

Absolutely. Ain't saying it's definitely gonna happen, that's just straight up bad comprehension from folks. Just saying it's on brand and within the pattern of Nico. The United States is full of people who think they are smarter than they are, and he fits that mold to a T.

[jjspur]

I think you've summed it up quite nicely. I would lower the 30% chance a bit down to about 15%, though, but yeah, I think Harper looks like a better fit as they already have AD and their other big men. They really need a good PG to set the table and score.

And yeah, there is a chance with Harper ending up better player. I wanted Flagg because I thought he's the best player without question, and also equally because I thought he fits the team better, but after the Spurs got the number 2 pick and a lot people here starting looking into it including myself, it seems Harper really does have the talent to be the best player of this draft. It's not a runaway choice between number 1 and 2 like I thought it was before the draft. There is a little bit of a debate to be had. I have really warmed up to the idea of running that 3 guard lineup and am very excited about it. I don't know who I'd want more as the gap has gotten closer and closer between the two.

I don't want to start anything about race, but I also think unfortunately that is coming into play here too. As it seems people are saying that Dallas/Texas, white homegrown player (not foreign), they can't pass that up, but when I hear stuff like that, I keep thinking, they should be looking at fit, talent, who projects to be the better player, who would fit their team better.

Completely agree, but I think that even 15 pct. is still a bit too high. Even as good as Harper looks, its more like 5%. How many times have we seen GM's make an incredibly puzzling or stupid draft pick. All these guys have one thing in common, and that is that they have some know it all moron whispering sweet nothings about a player in their ear and they listen and execute - only to regret it later.

We can only hope that Nico has a voice like that, but I seriously doubt it. There are probably too many normal voices in Dallas telling/yelling at him that he messed up once already, and better not mess up again. But hey, this the NBA, you just never know. I'd love to see Cooper Flagg in a spurs uniform.

[rascal]

I haven't seen this in this on this board, and I'm not sure if either side would propose it, but:

#1 (Flagg)
for
#2(presumably Harper) and Castle

I'd probably do it if I was the spurs (but I think Flagg is something approaching a Luka level prospect...).

No

You don't trade the future backcourt

[Ice009]

Completely agree, but I think that even 15 pct. is still a bit too high. Even as good as Harper looks, its more like 5%. How many times have we seen GM's make an incredibly puzzling or stupid draft pick. All these guys have one thing in common, and that is that they have some know it all moron whispering sweet nothings about a player in their ear and they listen and execute - only to regret it later.

We can only hope that Nico has a voice like that, but I seriously doubt it. There are probably too many normal voices in Dallas telling/yelling at him that he messed up once already, and better not mess up again. But hey, this the NBA, you just never know. I'd love to see Cooper Flagg in a spurs uniform.

Yeah, you're right, 5% is more like it. Even 15% is definitely too high.

[exstatic]

I haven't seen this in this on this board, and I'm not sure if either side would propose it, but:

#1 (Flagg)
for
#2(presumably Harper) and Castle

I'd probably do it if I was the spurs (but I think Flagg is something approaching a Luka level prospect...).

No. I like Flagg, but giving Dallas a 10-15 year dominant future back court,and likely forfeiting any chance at beating OKC in the future by doing so is non optimal.

[mo7888]

I haven't seen this in this on this board, and I'm not sure if either side would propose it, but:

#1 (Flagg)
for
#2(presumably Harper) and Castle

I'd probably do it if I was the spurs (but I think Flagg is something approaching a Luka level prospect...).

I love Flagg, but that's to much. I'd give either + a future pick. That said, I'd be happy to let Nico stew and just stand pat.

[Manu&Duncan fan]

I love Flagg, but that's to much. I'd give either + a future pick. That said, I'd be happy to let Nico stew and just stand pat.

This is about the fair price.

[scottspurs]

Hahaha it’s more likely the the spurs trade down from 2 than up to 1. I’ll put it like that.

[scott]

I think #2 + Castle is probably about a fair price to move up to get Flagg if both could buy into the idea, but I'm like everyone else in that I'd rather just roll with what I have in Steph and draft Harper. There is a lot of (earned) hype around Flagg, but I'm not sure the gap is as large as the price it would take to overcome it.

[dbestpro]

When I see Flagg I keep thinking about the hype of Christian Laettner.

[Ariel]

When I see Flagg I keep thinking about the hype of Christian Laettner.
I didn't watch Laettner (I do know who he is) but the Flagg hype is 100% legit, he's truly awesome.

[ambchang]

Laettner was picked 3rd behind Shaq and mourning. At no time was Laettner considered a cant miss prospect who will carry a franchise. He’s famous because he nailed clutch shots and won two ncaa titles while establishing multiple records.

Flagg was hailed as a can’t miss since a junior in high school. He is much better defensively and is tracked to be a franchise player, with a second banana on a good team type of floor.

Hype wise Flagg is more AD than anyone else and AD, other than injuries, has turned out to be a phenomenal player.

In terms of price of Flagg, #2 + castle is a steep price. I don’t see Flagg to be such a hugely better prospect than Harper, it’s more like Zion vs Morant where the 1st pick is generational and an obvious pick, but the second pick would be a consensus 1sf in most other years. Id say a second plus one or two future non swap built in picks would be fair.

[scott]

Laettner was picked 3rd behind Shaq and mourning. At no time was Laettner considered a cant miss prospect who will carry a franchise. He’s famous because he nailed clutch shots and won two ncaa titles while establishing multiple records.

Flagg was hailed as a can’t miss since a junior in high school. He is much better defensively and is tracked to be a franchise player, with a second banana on a good team type of floor.

Hype wise Flagg is more AD than anyone else and AD, other than injuries, has turned out to be a phenomenal player.

In terms of price of Flagg, #2 + castle is a steep price. I don’t see Flagg to be such a hugely better prospect than Harper, it’s more like Zion vs Morant where the 1st pick is generational and an obvious pick, but the second pick would be a consensus 1sf in most other years. Id say a second plus one or two future non swap built in picks would be fair.

From the Spurs POV, that’s all I’d be willing to pay… but if I had #1, I wouldn’t trade it for #2 and Castle.

This is pretty similar to what I’m seeing on various Trade Idea threads on Reddit where #2 for TMIII and Herb has become a popular idea (without my prompting). The general consensus seems to be the Spurs would never do that, but neither would NOP. Ultimately, the price required for a team to come off the pick is greater than it’s worth for teams to pay it. There aren’t win-win scenarios, only scenarios where there is a clear winner and loser, and no one wants to be the loser.

[exstatic]

From the Spurs POV, that’s all I’d be willing to pay… but if I had #1, I wouldn’t trade it for #2 and Castle.

This is pretty similar to what I’m seeing on various Trade Idea threads on Reddit where #2 for TMIII and Herb has become a popular idea (without my prompting). The general consensus seems to be the Spurs would never do that, but neither would NOP. Ultimately, the price required for a team to come off the pick is greater than it’s worth for teams to pay it. There aren’t win-win scenarios, only scenarios where there is a clear winner and loser, and no one wants to be the loser.

Atlanta has entered the chat…
Phoenix has entered the chat…
Phoenix has entered the chat again…

[TrainOfThought5]

I haven't seen this in this on this board, and I'm not sure if either side would propose it, but:

#1 (Flagg)
for
#2(presumably Harper) and Castle

I'd probably do it if I was the spurs (but I think Flagg is something approaching a Luka level prospect...).

please kill yourself immediately. This might be the dumbest take I’ve seen this year.

[Splits]

Closest comparison I can think of a #1 pick being traded was 1993 when GS sent #3 (Penny Hardaway) and 3 future 1sts to ORL for #1 (Chris Weber).

The asking price for Flagg would probably be something similar (maybe 2 1sts instead of 3), and I doubt the Spurs would do it if Dallas offered.

[Ignazzz]

The Warriors drafted then traded No. 3 pick Penny Hardaway & 3 future picks for No. 1 pick Chris Webber. Those picks turned into: Todd Fuller (#11 in 96), Vince Carter (#5 in 98) & Mike Miller (#5 in 00).

[Splits]

The Warriors drafted then traded No. 3 pick Penny Hardaway & 3 future picks for No. 1 pick Chris Webber. Those picks turned into: Todd Fuller (#11 in 96), Vince Carter (#5 in 98) & Mike Miller (#5 in 00).

IIRC correctly Weber also had some clause in his contract that allowed him to force a trade, which he did after his first year because he hated Don Nelson :lmao

[CGD]

The Warriors drafted then traded No. 3 pick Penny Hardaway & 3 future picks for No. 1 pick Chris Webber. Those picks turned into: Todd Fuller (#11 in 96), Vince Carter (#5 in 98) & Mike Miller (#5 in 00).

Looking at the history, it’s apparently more complicated than that. Orlando used the 96 pick to get Horace Grant to play with Shaq/Penny, and the 98 one to create the cap space to eventually get Hill/McGrady. They did draft Miller. Seemed like sensible uses of those picks.

[Limguogolo]

Maybe I'm wrong because I haven't seen Flagg play often enough, but I see Flagg less as a franchise player than a perfect lieutenant capable of doing everything on the floor except... scoring 35 points per game. But hey, the hype must be legit, after all, he won the national championship...

Nor did Harper, btw.

Flagg's quality in my opinion is his precocity to be good everywhere. That's what we ask of modern players after four or five years. But being good at everything doesn't mean you can be great at any particular thing. Particularly when it comes to the ability to create quality shots at high percentages and at high volume.

I probably don't know him well enough. But if that's the case, there may be a superstar hiding somewhere in this draft and Flagg remains the perfect fit for the Mavs. The Spurs would have certainly benefit from making him Victor's lieutenant, but not at the cost of Harper (or Harper's promises) and more. Because Harper has at least one area where he is undoubtedly a master: finishing in the paint. If you add ball handling and size to that, you potentially see this type of player becoming a superstar. Two dominant guards, and one dominant center is all the Spurs needed to build a team built for a dynasty. I don't see any necessary strategy to adopt for pick 2.

The unknown is rather at pick 14. Because you have potentially Manu, TP and Duncan, with a pick 14, you can go directly to Boris Diaw with his Phoenix PO form. Or to Scola. Or if you don't want to stay sorber and go a little crazy: to Robinson.

[Mr. Body]

Minor note: Flagg didn't win the title. They got beat by Houston, who lost to Florida.

[Limguogolo]

It was sarcasm. (“Nor.”)

[rascal]

wrong thread

[SouthernFried]

I would trade WEMBY for #1 Spot...maybe get a center thrown in. Then we'd have the #1 AND #2 spot. Maybe trade the #2 spot for the best big you can get. Then you would have a backcourt from hell, not worry about how to allocate minutes in the back court...and still have a damn good big. :wow

Wemby is a generational talent, but so is Flagg. And I think Flagg will be more stable. Watching Wemby is exhilarating and frustrating at the same time. He's not Duncan. He's better...and worse. Unpredictable. He can f up a team just as easily as help them, not to mention health issues. I'd take flagg. And a Big at #2...or trade #2 for a big.

Flagg, Fox, Castle and a #2 big. Or...we could still take HARPER at #2.

Flagg...fox...Harper...Castle...and a rock in the middle.

Damn.

[Gagnrath]

mavs made a big stink about trading away Luka because they prioritized defense. Davis was how they sold it. trading him for Harper doesnt add up at all. they are looking to win now, they dont have great draft capital.

doesnt make much sense for the spurs either, as awesome as a healthy Davis is


I don't know that I have seen a healthy Davis outside of new orleans.

[RC_Drunkford]

I would trade WEMBY for #1 Spot...maybe get a center thrown in. Then we'd have the #1 AND #2 spot. Maybe trade the #2 spot for the best big you can get. Then you would have a backcourt from hell, not worry about how to allocate minutes in the back court...and still have a damn good big. :wow

Wemby is a generational talent, but so is Flagg. And I think Flagg will be more stable. Watching Wemby is exhilarating and frustrating at the same time. He's not Duncan. He's better...and worse. Unpredictable. He can f up a team just as easily as help them, not to mention health issues. I'd take flagg. And a Big at #2...or trade #2 for a big.

Flagg, Fox, Castle and a #2 big. Or...we could still take HARPER at #2.

Flagg...fox...Harper...Castle...and a rock in the middle.

Damn.

https://media2.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExd2ZjNHNsN3ZocG02MWlhYmgycnFkc3l zZ3E3dm9mNTE4dGc2dWYzaSZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfY nlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/L4TYWQn8rALRu/giphy.gif

[mo7888]

I would trade WEMBY for #1 Spot...maybe get a center thrown in. Then we'd have the #1 AND #2 spot. Maybe trade the #2 spot for the best big you can get. Then you would have a backcourt from hell, not worry about how to allocate minutes in the back court...and still have a damn good big. :wow

Wemby is a generational talent, but so is Flagg. And I think Flagg will be more stable. Watching Wemby is exhilarating and frustrating at the same time. He's not Duncan. He's better...and worse. Unpredictable. He can f up a team just as easily as help them, not to mention health issues. I'd take flagg. And a Big at #2...or trade #2 for a big.

Flagg, Fox, Castle and a #2 big. Or...we could still take HARPER at #2.

Flagg...fox...Harper...Castle...and a rock in the middle.

Damn.

That's a hell of a take right there...

[Tyrone Jenkins]

I would trade WEMBY for #1 Spot...maybe get a center thrown in. Then we'd have the #1 AND #2 spot. Maybe trade the #2 spot for the best big you can get. Then you would have a backcourt from hell, not worry about how to allocate minutes in the back court...and still have a damn good big. :wow

Wemby is a generational talent, but so is Flagg. And I think Flagg will be more stable. Watching Wemby is exhilarating and frustrating at the same time. He's not Duncan. He's better...and worse. Unpredictable. He can f up a team just as easily as help them, not to mention health issues. I'd take flagg. And a Big at #2...or trade #2 for a big.

Flagg, Fox, Castle and a #2 big. Or...we could still take HARPER at #2.

Flagg...fox...Harper...Castle...and a rock in the middle.

Damn.

the first 4 words of your thought nullify the rest of what you have to say...

[scottspurs]

I didn’t have trading Wemby on the bingo card of #2 strategies lmao

[SpursBills]

I would trade WEMBY for #1 Spot...maybe get a center thrown in. Then we'd have the #1 AND #2 spot. Maybe trade the #2 spot for the best big you can get. Then you would have a backcourt from hell, not worry about how to allocate minutes in the back court...and still have a damn good big. :wow

Wemby is a generational talent, but so is Flagg. And I think Flagg will be more stable. Watching Wemby is exhilarating and frustrating at the same time. He's not Duncan. He's better...and worse. Unpredictable. He can f up a team just as easily as help them, not to mention health issues. I'd take flagg. And a Big at #2...or trade #2 for a big.

Flagg, Fox, Castle and a #2 big. Or...we could still take HARPER at #2.

Flagg...fox...Harper...Castle...and a rock in the middle.

Damn.

Between this take and the "Dallas won the Luka trade" take from a few months back, you have be the most contrarian poster on this board

[Ice009]

I never would have even thought about this (even as the wildest of wild strategies). Since it's been bought up, would Dallas still take Cooper, or would they do it no questions asked? The only reason I ask is because I guess there is still some uncertainty with Victor due to the DVT.

[John B]

Closest comparison I can think of a #1 pick being traded was 1993 when GS sent #3 (Penny Hardaway) and 3 future 1sts to ORL for #1 (Chris Weber).

The asking price for Flagg would probably be something similar (maybe 2 1sts instead of 3), and I doubt the Spurs would do it if Dallas offered.

#2 and 2 FRP’s for Flagg? Sign me in. I’m sure the Spurs too in a heartbeat.

On that note, Chris Webber wasn’t considered a generational talent. But I’d take Webber over Flagg anytime. Took Michigan twice to NCAA Finals. Flagg didn’t even get there once. Fab Five was crazy talented but as well as Flagg’s team. But Christian Laetner’s team with Grant Hill?

[OldMan88]

I didn’t have trading Wemby on the bingo card of #2 strategies lmao

It’s definitely out-of-the-box thinking to trade Wemby for another #1 generational player. Sure, the DVT issue could be a consideration if it was determined to be another Nephew type chronic condition, but a recent article talking about Wemby’s continuing growth by several inches may have other ramifications for his long term future. Getting taller isn’t really in his long term best interest.

[exstatic]

It’s definitely out-of-the-box thinking to trade Wemby for another #1 generational player. Sure, the DVT issue could be a consideration if it was determined to be another Nephew type chronic condition, but a recent article talking about Wemby’s continuing growth by several inches may have other ramifications for his long term future. Getting taller isn’t really in his long term best interest.

Flagg isn’t generational. He’s Tatum without a tan.

[BatManu20]

Spurs offering Wemby for the #1 Pick is so unconceivable that Dallas would likely become suspicious right away and assume that Wemby's blood-clot condition is chronic or something.

[Ice009]

It’s definitely out-of-the-box thinking to trade Wemby for another #1 generational player. Sure, the DVT issue could be a consideration if it was determined to be another Nephew type chronic condition, but a recent article talking about Wemby’s continuing growth by several inches may have other ramifications for his long term future. Getting taller isn’t really in his long term best interest.

I don't remember seeing an article about that. Was it just speculation that he's still growing, or has he been measured again? He does look taller than his listed height when standing next to people that are 7 foot or taller. It'd be interesting to see pictures of him next to DRob his rookie year and again now to see if he's looking taller when measured up to DRob.


Spurs offering Wemby for the #1 Pick is so unconceivable that Dallas would likely become suspicious right away and assume that Wemby's blood-clot condition is chronic or something.

Yeah, that would probably throw them for a loop. They'd immediately be thinking what is going on here.

[BatManu20]

#2 and 2 FRP’s for Flagg? Sign me in. I’m sure the Spurs too in a heartbeat.

On that note, Chris Webber wasn’t considered a generational talent. But I’d take Webber over Flagg anytime. Took Michigan twice to NCAA Finals. Flagg didn’t even get there once. Fab Five was crazy talented but as well as Flagg’s team. But Christian Laetner’s team with Grant Hill?

In Flagg's defense, he was essentially a high school Senior at 17-18 this season while Webber was a true Freshman and Sophomore the years to led those Michigan teams. Bears mentioning.

With that said, Webber is one of the most underrated offensive talents in NBA history. He was overshadowed by the likes of Timmy, KG, and Dirk during his prime, but he was a monster in his own right during those early 2000's Playoff runs in Sacramento. Was robbed of an NBA Championship in 2002 by crooked officiating in the infamous Game 6 against the Lakers. Hell of a player. He was never the same player after he tore his meniscus in the 2003 Playoffs though. That was effectively the end of his time as a franchise player.

[scottspurs]

It’s definitely out-of-the-box thinking to trade Wemby for another #1 generational player. Sure, the DVT issue could be a consideration if it was determined to be another Nephew type chronic condition, but a recent article talking about Wemby’s continuing growth by several inches may have other ramifications for his long term future. Getting taller isn’t really in his long term best interest.

Flagg is the best player in this draft. No debate. But he is not generational. His Athleticism at the combine was subpar. He may not be a go to guy on offense. He doesn’t have an elite skill. Great all around player with no weaknesses that could be a great two-way player but doesn’t have any rare traits.

I was born in 1986 and I would say generational talents in my lifetime are:

Shaquille O’Neal
Tim Duncan
LeBron James
Anthony Davis (Didn’t live up to that)
Victor Wembanyama

Thats the list. Period.

[OldMan88]

Here’s the article… https://www.poundingtherock.com/2025/5/20/24433937/victor-wembanyama-is-growing-and-the-spurs-cant-hide-it-any-longer

I think Victor still has the potential to be a generational player, but the jury isn’t even making their deliberations because the case hasn’t been made. Hopefully he’ll make the case with the Spurs for his career and lives up to his potential. He’ll never be a low post banger traditional center, but could be the best “small” forward unicorn of all time.

[OldMan88]

Delete duplicate.

[exstatic]

Flagg is the best player in this draft. No debate. But he is not generational. His Athleticism at the combine was subpar. He may not be a go to guy on offense. He doesn’t have an elite skill. Great all around player with no weaknesses that could be a great two-way player but doesn’t have any rare traits.

I was born in 1986 and I would say generational talents in my lifetime are:

Shaquille O’Neal
Tim Duncan
LeBron James
Anthony Davis (Didn’t live up to that)
Victor Wembanyama

Thats the list. Period.

If you’re talking generational prospect, and this is a draft thread, you have to include Zion.

[John B]

In Flagg's defense, he was essentially a high school Senior at 17-18 this season while Webber was a true Freshman and Sophomore the years to led those Michigan teams. Bears mentioning.

With that said, Webber is one of the most underrated offensive talents in NBA history. He was overshadowed by the likes of Timmy, KG, and Dirk during his prime, but he was a monster in his own right during those early 2000's Playoff runs in Sacramento. Was robbed of an NBA Championship in 2002 by crooked officiating in the infamous Game 6 against the Lakers. Hell of a player. He was never the same player after he tore his meniscus in the 2003 Playoffs though. That was effectively the end of his time as a franchise player.

I agree. If you compare Flagg to Kevin Garnett, Chris Webber. Flagg is Jason Tatum without the tan as exstatic puts it. He’s very good but “generational talent” is a stretch.

[baseline bum]

Flagg is the best player in this draft. No debate. But he is not generational. His Athleticism at the combine was subpar. He may not be a go to guy on offense. He doesn’t have an elite skill. Great all around player with no weaknesses that could be a great two-way player but doesn’t have any rare traits.

I was born in 1986 and I would say generational talents in my lifetime are:

Shaquille O’Neal
Tim Duncan
LeBron James
Anthony Davis (Didn’t live up to that)
Victor Wembanyama

Thats the list. Period.

David Robinson 100% should be on that list too. He was unreal to watch in college and I remember praying the Spurs would somehow get him. He was a never before seen blend of size, speed, and agility. And never seen since. Greg Oden should probably be there too. He was considered just as good a prospect as LeBron and I remember NBA beat writers talking about him since he was like 15. Durant would have been the obvious #1 any other draft that decade other than 2003 and yet there probably wasn't a GM who would have passed on Oden for him.

[scottspurs]

If you’re talking generational prospect, and this is a draft thread, you have to include Zion.

If you are talking general consensus sure. I had concerns with the way he ran. Seemed like he was always limping. The other guy people would have considered generational was Greg Oden but I remember liking Durant more. I didn’t see Oden as a dominant player on offense. Only defense

[John B]

I don’t know what others definition of a “generational talent.” But to me:

Kareem, Magic, Jordan, Shaq, Curry

I love Timmy. But those people changed the landscape of the game on how it’s played and defended. I didn’t get to watch Wilt or Russell or Pistol Pete so I won’t include them on my list. But Timmy is top 3 in my GOAT discussion for being so good for so long, and making other people around him better, very much like Magic did with his passing.

Correction: Kareem and not Hakeem the Dream

[scottspurs]

David Robinson 100% should be on that list too. He was unreal to watch in college and I remember praying the Spurs would somehow get him. He was a never before seen blend of size, speed, and agility. And never seen since. Greg Oden should probably be there too. He was considered just as good a prospect as LeBron and I remember NBA beat writers talking about him since he was like 15. Durant would have been the obvious #1 any other draft that decade other than 2003 and yet there probably wasn't a GM who would have passed on Oden for him.

I was way too young to remember David Robinson coming out of college. That’s why I left him off. He was one of my heroes growing up and the reason I got into basketball but I was born in 1986. I’m sure there have been other great prospects. Wilt, Kareem, Ralph Sampson but that was before my time.

[scottspurs]

I don’t know what others definition of a “generational talent.” But to me:

Hakeem, Magic, Jordan, Shaq, Curry

I love Timmy. But those people changed the landscape of the game on how it’s played and defended. I didn’t get to watch Wilt or Russell or Pistol Pete so I won’t include them on my list. But Timmy is top 3 in my GOAT discussion for being so good for so long, and making other people around him better, very much like Magic did with his passing.

Generational players and generational talents are two different things. Talents is how great of a prospect they were coming out. Generational players are the ones who actually are the rare great players. Curry for example was not a generational talent as a prospect. Johnny Flynn got picked ahead of him lol. But he is most definitely a generational player. Best shooter of all-time

[scottspurs]

Also I’m a basketball historian but I can’t go back and tell you how great of a prospect a player was. I wasn’t alive back then lol. I didnt evaluate those players from the lens of not knowing what they would become.

[Extra Stout]

Don’t forget Lew Alcindor, later Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, in 1969.

[John B]

Generational players and generational talents are two different things. Talents is how great of a prospect they were coming out. Generational players are the ones who actually are the rare great players. Curry for example was not a generational talent as a prospect. Johnny Flynn got picked ahead of him lol. But he is most definitely a generational player. Best shooter of all-time

Maybe you meant Generational Talent vs Generational Prospect. I would add Ewing, DRob, LeBron, Zion to prospects.

But going back to Flagg. He is a stretch. And he’s not even better than KG or Webber and they’re not on my list.

[scottspurs]

Maybe you meant Generational Talent vs Generational Prospect. I would add Ewing, DRob, LeBron, Zion to prospects.

But going back to Flagg. He is a stretch. And he’s not even better than KG or Webber and they’re not on my list.

yes generational prospects I was just using the word talent instead. But for lack of confusion I was talking about prospects in my lifetime

[K...]

what if post dvt wemby is not what we think, or like luka, the front office has had enough of the "i only shoot threes" diva and want a better coachable prospect? gotta trust pafto if they make the call

[scottspurs]

what if post dvt wemby is not what we think, or like luka, the front office has had enough of the "i only shoot threes" diva and want a better coachable prospect? gotta trust pafto if they make the call

lol if the Spurs trade Wemby after 2 seasons we riot. All faith lost in the front office. Burn it to the ground.

[John B]

And neither is Harper that much better because of his outside shot. It’s true 2025 is deep but nothing compared to 1984, 1996 or 2003 in All-Star, but potentially tons of good role players as there are good size, versatile players even at 2nd round, but remains to be seen.

To call Flagg a generational talent is a stretch, and 2025 draft is deep with “role players.”

[John B]

what if post dvt wemby is not what we think, or like luka, the front office has had enough of the "i only shoot threes" diva and want a better coachable prospect? gotta trust pafto if they make the call

Wemby represents “billions” of merchandise and jobs. I think you’d go worse than Saldivar as San Antonio’s most hated person if you trade Wemby.

[kobyz]

If you don't plan to trade fox, you should not draft harper who his value is as a ball dominant pg...

[John B]

If you don't plan to trade fox, you should not draft harper who his value is as a ball dominant pg...

You draft Harper because he’s the best player available period. It has nothing to do with Fox.

[baseline bum]

Don't draft Kobe Bryant because you have Eddie Jones and Nick Van Exel

[pad300]

Flagg is the best player in this draft. No debate. But he is not generational. His Athleticism at the combine was subpar. He may not be a go to guy on offense. He doesn’t have an elite skill. Great all around player with no weaknesses that could be a great two-way player but doesn’t have any rare traits.

I was born in 1986 and I would say generational talents in my lifetime are:

Shaquille O’Neal
Tim Duncan
LeBron James
Anthony Davis (Didn’t live up to that)
Victor Wembanyama

Thats the list. Period.

Ok, so you rejected Zion and Oden... How about Luka, you know, the guy with the Euroleague MVP (and ACB MVP) at 18?

[baseline bum]

Ok, so you rejected Zion and Oden... How about Luka, you know, the guy with the Euroleague MVP (and ACB MVP) at 18?

Damn I forgot to bring him up. Lunacy that he lasted to #3 (and effectively #5) given he was MVP in a league that hates playing young guys headed to the NBA. I wanted that Sac #2 pick for Kawhi so badly to draft him.

[kobyz]

You draft Harper because he’s the best player available period. It has nothing to do with Fox.

You draft him but need to trade one of them as fox and harper can't coexist

[SouthernFried]

Between this take and the "Dallas won the Luka trade" take from a few months back, you have be the most contrarian poster on this board

Lol. Yeah, I get it. "Contrarian poster" is being polite :) That's me. l Didn't take the vaccine either...

Still, Different points of view can be interesting and even enlightening. I look at picks and trades a little different. Not so much about individual skills, tho they matter a lot...but, the overall affect on the teams play.

Luke always needs the ball in his hands to be effective. AD doesn't. How does that affect the rest of the teams effectiveness? Jordan and Kobe needed the ball too and were effective at it. Duncan didn't need the ball in his hands as much and helped the team be better because of it. I think Wemby handles the ball too much. His 20' over the head passes are "WTF" worthy. It effects the rest of the teams play. We have a few 3 point shooters for example. We don't have many 7'3" league leading shot blockers. Where should he be playing? Where is he playing? Wtf is he doing??? haha

Flagg is one of the best "all around" players I've seen since the Magic days, just without the flash. Offense, defense, passing, Rebounding...everything. He can help others or do his thing. I see him as the ultimate compliment for team play. I'm always about team play over individual play. 2014 still gives me chills. I can see Flagg on a team like that. Wemby...maybe, maybe not. That's Wemby in a nutshell.

Now that I've thought about it a little more...Flagg is more Ginobili than Magic. Or maybe a combination. Would you take Ginobili over Wemby? lol. I know my answer :)

Anyway, the possibilities in this draft are...insane. Thinking "out-of-the-box" is generally a good idea. Don't have to do it. But, it sure doesn't hurt to look at it.

[lefty20]

You draft him but need to trade one of them as fox and harper can't coexist

Rookie guards almost never end being net positives right off the bat. Unless Harper proves himself to be another Luka, having him, Fox & Castle will work just fine in the short term.

Extend Fox, and start Castle with him with Harper coming off the bench. Try to arrange the rotation where you have 2 of them on the court at all times.

Assuming Castle and Harper both reach their lofty potential, then we can trade Fox ~ 3yrs down the road.

This is basically a layup. Not even Nico can fuck this up.

[exstatic]

what if post dvt wemby is not what we think, or like luka, the front office has had enough of the "i only shoot threes" diva and want a better coachable prospect? gotta trust pafto if they make the call

His 3 point shooting jumped from like 5 attempts to over 9 when Mitch took the interim position. He’s not going rogue.

[scottspurs]

Luka was not a generational prospect. lol Deandre Ayton went over him. No generational prospect can go 3rd unless picks #1 and 2 are also generational.

[scottspurs]

Oden and Zion were generational prospects to casuals. Same for Dwight Howard. Throw Yao in there lol

[LeBowen]

Luka was not a generational prospect. lol Deandre Ayton went over him. No generational prospect can go 3rd unless picks #1 and 2 are also generational.

Luka was by far the greatest European prospect ever, it's just that a couple of GMs couldn't get over themselves.
I'd argue he was the best playmaker prospect since Magic. Zero risk pick.

[scottspurs]

There were concerns about Luka’s defense and why he didn’t get more minutes. Stamina was already a concern

[Manu&Duncan fan]

I would trade WEMBY for #1 Spot...maybe get a center thrown in. Then we'd have the #1 AND #2 spot. Maybe trade the #2 spot for the best big you can get. Then you would have a backcourt from hell, not worry about how to allocate minutes in the back court...and still have a damn good big. :wow

Wemby is a generational talent, but so is Flagg. And I think Flagg will be more stable. Watching Wemby is exhilarating and frustrating at the same time. He's not Duncan. He's better...and worse. Unpredictable. He can f up a team just as easily as help them, not to mention health issues. I'd take flagg. And a Big at #2...or trade #2 for a big.

Flagg, Fox, Castle and a #2 big. Or...we could still take HARPER at #2.

Flagg...fox...Harper...Castle...and a rock in the middle.

Damn.

Didi you just have your brain fried in southern pole?

[scottspurs]

Sabonis and Petrovic were far better European prospects than Luka. Way more accomplished

[scott]

The idea of trading Wemby for Flagg straight up is provocative for sure (for one, Dallas would certainly need to give up more than just #1...). For shits and giggles, I'd like to entertain this for a moment (and not because I think we should do this. Trading Wemby to Dallas seems like a surefire way to get skullfucked by Wemby for the next decade).

Let's say this happened...

https://i.imgur.com/nLOsJVS.png

With #14 I'm gonna take Coward and a #38 I'm going to assume I get Maxime because I'm gonna use some future SRPs to move up.

Our team now looks like:

Guard Rotation: Fox/Harper/Castle/Coward
Forward Rotation: Flagg/Washington/Vassell/Barnes/Sochan
Big Rotation: Lively/Gafford/Raynaud

That's an interesting, well balanced team. If you could live with the fact that traded Wembanyama, it would be exciting to root for.

I'm 100% against doing this though. I don't want to suffer at the hands of Wemby Quintuple Doubles for the next decade :lol

Once again before I'm accused of something I'm not... I AM 100% AGAINST THIS... I'm just bored.

[LeBowen]

There were concerns about Luka’s defense and why he didn’t get more minutes. Stamina was already a concern

He was a fucking teenager who won MVP in second best league in the world, why are some of you so adamant about sticking with your retarded takes?
Petrovic was in another time and Sabonis had no knees by the time he got to the NBA.

[scottspurs]

Pick #2 strategies thread quietly becomes the trade Wemby thread. lol Spurs tanking until 3035 stacked!!!!!!

[Manu&Duncan fan]

The idea of trading Wemby for Flagg straight up is provocative for sure (for one, Dallas would certainly need to give up more than just #1...). For shits and giggles, I'd like to entertain this for a moment (and not because I think we should do this. Trading Wemby to Dallas seems like a surefire way to get skullfucked by Wemby for the next decade).

Let's say this happened...

https://i.imgur.com/nLOsJVS.png

With #14 I'm gonna take Coward and a #38 I'm going to assume I get Maxime because I'm gonna use some future SRPs to move up.

Our team now looks like:

Guard Rotation: Fox/Harper/Castle/Coward
Forward Rotation: Flagg/Washington/Vassell/Barnes/Sochan
Big Rotation: Lively/Gafford/Raynaud

That's an interesting, well balanced team. If you could live with the fact that traded Wembanyama, it would be exciting to root for.

I'm 100% against doing this though. I don't want to suffer at the hands of Wemby Quintuple Doubles for the next decade :lol

Once again before I'm accused of something I'm not... I AM 100% AGAINST THIS... I'm just bored.

I can tell you're bored.

[scottspurs]

He was a fucking teenager who won MVP in second best league in the world, why are some of you so adamant about sticking with your retarded takes?
Petrovic was in another time and Sabonis had no knees by the time he got to the NBA.

lmao and was picked third behind Ayton and Marvin Bagley. Luka was a great prospect but not generational. Darko didn’t get picked ahead of LeBron

[scottspurs]

He was a fucking teenager who won MVP in second best league in the world, why are some of you so adamant about sticking with your retarded takes?
Petrovic was in another time and Sabonis had no knees by the time he got to the NBA.
We are talking about prospects not what they were when they got to the NBA. Keep up! Name call all you like lol only makes your take worse

[lefty20]

Pick #2 strategies thread quietly becomes the trade Wemby thread. lol Spurs tanking until 3035 stacked!!!!!!

Its a dangerous business ,scottsspurs, talking about draft strategies. If you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.

[LeBowen]

lmao and was picked third behind Ayton and Marvin Bagley. Luka was a great prospect but not generational. Darko didn’t get picked ahead of LeBron

Alright, you're just a retard. What's going on with this place as of late, ffs?

[scottspurs]

Alright, you're just a retard. What's going on with this place as of late, ffs?
Noted lol when are you starting the spurs should trade for Deandre Ayton thread? Lmao

[mo7888]

Luka was not a generational prospect. lol Deandre Ayton went over him. No generational prospect can go 3rd unless picks #1 and 2 are also generational.

This... there's a difference in being a generational prospect and a generational player after the fact...

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

The word generational is thrown too easily for both prospects and accomplished players. A generation is 20 to 30 years, you can't cram 6 or 7 names in there and call all of them generational.

[Robz4000]

The idea of trading Wemby for Flagg straight up is provocative for sure (for one, Dallas would certainly need to give up more than just #1...). For shits and giggles, I'd like to entertain this for a moment (and not because I think we should do this. Trading Wemby to Dallas seems like a surefire way to get skullfucked by Wemby for the next decade).

Let's say this happened...

https://i.imgur.com/nLOsJVS.png

With #14 I'm gonna take Coward and a #38 I'm going to assume I get Maxime because I'm gonna use some future SRPs to move up.

Our team now looks like:

Guard Rotation: Fox/Harper/Castle/Coward
Forward Rotation: Flagg/Washington/Vassell/Barnes/Sochan
Big Rotation: Lively/Gafford/Raynaud

That's an interesting, well balanced team. If you could live with the fact that traded Wembanyama, it would be exciting to root for.

I'm 100% against doing this though. I don't want to suffer at the hands of Wemby Quintuple Doubles for the next decade :lol

Once again before I'm accused of something I'm not... I AM 100% AGAINST THIS... I'm just bored.

Unlike most others I could be talked into trading Wemby but I'd want more than that tbh.

[spurs10]

" Trading Wemby to Dallas seems like a surefire way to get skullfucked by Wemby for the next decade." Abso%$$inglotely!

[SouthernFried]

That's "IF" Wemby is around for a decade....

Think of it this way...It's like comparing Wemby with Chet Holmgren. Wemby is better in every stat. But, Chet Holmgren is in the Finals.

"Yeah, but Chet has a better team around him."

Exactly.

Team vs Individual.

[Robz4000]

That's "IF" Wemby is around for a decade....

Think of it this way...It's like comparing Wemby with Chet Holmgren. Wemby is better in every stat. But, Chet Holmgren is in the Finals.

"Yeah, but Chet has a better team around him."

Exactly.

Team vs Individual.

Wemby is a bus driver while Chet is a bus rider tbh. Big difference.

[SouthernFried]

Wemby is a bus driver while Chet is a bus rider tbh. Big difference.

Not sure Wemby is even on the bus. It's like watching him out the window of the bus. He really is a Unicorn.

The only other Physical Unicorn I've ever seen, was Wilt Chamberlain. And Bill Russell walked away with the Championships.

Team vs Individual.

[Robz4000]

Not sure Wemby is even on the bus. It's like watching him out the window of the bus. He really is a Unicorn.

The only other Physical Unicorn I've ever seen, was Wilt Chamberlain. And Bill Russell walked away with the Championships.

Team vs Individual.

So what is your argument? Obviously if the Spurs fail to build a team around Wemby they won't win many (if any) rings. That won't change the fact Wemby > Chet.

If you mean Russell > Wilt, Russell was a better defensive anchor than Wilt ever was tbh. Even when Wilt had the superior team he still lost to Bill.

[ginobilized]

Meanwhile, back at the ranch......

Pick #2 strategies.

All in favor of Dylan Harper please raise your hand.

[exstatic]

Meanwhile, back at the ranch......

Pick #2 strategies.

All in favor of Dylan Harper please raise your hand.

:claw

[buttsR4rebounding]

Meanwhile, back at the ranch......

Pick #2 strategies.

All in favor of Dylan Harper please raise your hand.

:clap

[exstatic]

Here's a thought (maybe a brain fart), but what if Dallas decides they want to take the long approach and build around Flagg instead of trading for Giannis? If they called and offered AD for #2 + our choice of filler, what would you say?

Fuck no. Streetclothes has a limited number of seasons left,and those will likely be of the 50-60 game variety.

[heyheymymy]

mods please close thread

[Manu20]

Meanwhile, back at the ranch......

Pick #2 strategies.

All in favor of Dylan Harper please raise your hand.

:clap

The more tape and research I do on Harper, the more I'm sold on him.

[SouthernFried]

It's just talk and conjecture.

The visceral reaction of some of the posters here...is uncalled for.

[tonight...you]

I don't mind stupid talk.
It's cool.
I ride, or die with Wemby on this front.

He's already proven on so many fronts, especially defense and he truly wants to be a cornerstone of the Spurs and that's huge.
The Chet shit and Finals is stupid. This Spurs team is building and it looks good going forward.
Keep building the team and keep the most unique talent the NBA has ever seen and, if done right, you potentially have something truly special.

[Ice009]

I don't mind stupid talk.
It's cool.
I ride, or die with Wemby on this front.

He's already proven on so many fronts, especially defense and he truly wants to be a cornerstone of the Spurs and that's huge.
The Chet shit and Finals is stupid. This Spurs team is building and it looks good going forward.
Keep building the team and keep the most unique talent the NBA has ever seen and, if done right, you potentially have something truly special.

Yeah, we're really lucky to have him. When anyone mentions trading him, I sort can see the logic behind it as the DVT thing is scary and also if he's still growing, that's also something I don't know if it's a good thing or not. They're the only two things that make be even slightly think about it when it was brought up, but otherwise, I'd never even think about it. His defense alone is amazing. Really, the other thing I care about right now is that he's healthy. Don't care about the end result or how deep the Spurs go in the playoffs next season, but if he is healthy going forward, then I will be more than happy with that as the possibilities going will be limitless.

What do you think of getting the number 2 pick? During the draft lottery, I was thinking about little things such as the few conversations you said you had with Cooper's parents when he was playing for Duke earlier in the season. I had a good feeling about that. Thought that was some good karma. Then during the lottery, I thought we had it when it came down to the last two picks as I knew the Spurs had a higher percentage than Dallas to win the number 1 pick, but oh well, came so close. I really do think he would have preferred the Spurs when it came down to the last two teams, I think he was disappointed it was Dallas that won the lottery when the last two teams were announced.

[tonight...you]

Yeah, we're really lucky to have him. When anyone mentions trading him, I sort can see the logic behind it as the DVT thing is scary and also if he's still growing, that's also something I don't know if it's a good thing or not. They're the only two things that make be even slightly think about it when it was brought up, but otherwise, I'd never even think about it. His defense alone is amazing. Really, the other thing I care about right now is that he's healthy. Don't care about the end result or how deep the Spurs go in the playoffs next season, but if he is healthy going forward, then I will be more than happy with that as the possibilities going will be limitless.

What do you think of getting the number 2 pick? During the draft lottery, I was thinking about little things such as the few conversations you said you had with Cooper's parents when he was playing for Duke earlier in the season. I had a good feeling about that. Thought that was some good karma. Then during the lottery, I thought we had it when it came down to the last two picks as I knew the Spurs had a higher percentage than Dallas to win the number 1 pick, but oh well, came so close. I really do think he would have preferred the Spurs when it came down to the last two teams, I think he was disappointed it was Dallas that won the lottery when the last two teams were announced.

I agree. I think Coop was really hoping the Spurs got that pick when it looked very possible. C'est la vie.
I'm ecstatic the Spurs got the #2 pick though! I will not look a gift horse in the mouth. I hope everything turns out for the best.

[Ice009]

I agree. I think Coop was really hoping the Spurs got that pick when it looked very possible. C'est la vie.
I'm ecstatic the Spurs got the #2 pick though! I will not look a gift horse in the mouth. I hope everything turns out for the best.

Man, can't be anything but excited/happy to get the number 2 pick, but since we didn't get number 1, maybe somehow, Cooper still ends up in SA? The draft isn't here yet and that possibility still exists.

In any case, I'm going to have to watch Dallas for the first time in my life (I freaking hate it), but if Cooper ends up there, I think he's going to be great.

[tonight...you]

Man, can't be anything but excited/happy to get the number 2 pick, but since we didn't get number 1, maybe somehow, Cooper still ends up in SA? The draft isn't here yet and that possibility still exists.

In any case, I'm going to have to watch Dallas for the first time in my life (I freaking hate it), but if Cooper ends up there, I think he's going to be great.

I know a lot of people like to say Fuck Dallas and I don't blame them, but I like good rivalries and that means both teams are competitive.
It just adds to the emotional investment to me.

[Ice009]

I know a lot of people like to say Fuck Dallas and I don't blame them, but I like good rivalries and that means both teams are competitive.
It just adds to the emotional investment to me.

Jason Terry once said it's a Texas blood war and even though I'm not from the US or Texas, I could feel it during those games. He was right IMO. Just because the teams are from Texas, doesn't mean it's easy to go for the other Texas team to win if yours doesn't. It really did feel the way Jason Terry described it as most of the games usually were pretty heated/intense, but I'm really torn on it as I like Cooper as a player (I did not ever think Dallas would win the lottery), so I'll try and watch him if Dallas draft him (hopefully Nico does something different/out of the box and Cooper ends up elsewhere [even if it's not the Spurs]).

[scott]

Jason Terry once said it's a Texas blood war and even though I'm not from the US or Texas, I could feel it during those games. He was right IMO. Just because the teams are from Texas, doesn't mean it's easy to go for the other Texas team to win if yours doesn't. It really did feel the way Jason Terry described it as most of the games usually were pretty heated/intense, but I'm really torn on it as I like Cooper as a player (I did not ever think Dallas would win the lottery), so I'll try and watch him if Dallas draft him (hopefully Nico does something different/out of the box and Cooper ends up elsewhere [even if it's not the Spurs]).

The Mavericks probably view us as their biggest rival and hate us with a passion, but that doesn't go both ways. The Mavs are more like a little brother to us. The Lakers are our true rival. I'd also say Houston is more of a true rival than Dallas. They aren't worthy of being spoken about in the same breath as us, tbqh.

[Ice009]

To me it's Lakers and Mavericks. Haven't the Spurs faced the Mavericks more times in the playoffs than the Rockets?

[Mr. Body]

To me it's Lakers and Mavericks. Haven't the Spurs faced the Mavericks more times in the playoffs than the Rockets?

In the Duncan era, the Spurs faced every other WC team and beat them at least once in the playoffs... other than the Rockets. They never faced the Rockets with Duncan.

They did the year after the retired and beat them.

[scott]

To me it's Lakers and Mavericks. Haven't the Spurs faced the Mavericks more times in the playoffs than the Rockets?

To me it's the Rockets because of 1995.

2006 we gifted them their trip to the finals by Manu having the biggest brain fart of his career. 2009 I honestly barely even remember to be honest.

[SpursFan86]

1927773022426984557

Not that Don Harris is Shams or anything, but figured I’d post nevertheless.

[Ice009]

Alright, that sounds good if they believe in him, then I'm in too.

[Guru of Nothing]

You know, I'm not sure who I hate more, Lakers or Rockets.

Hating the Rockets is kind of fun (haha, Jalen Green), but Laker hate is more real. No doubt, if I could slip one former NBA player a bad breakfast taco, Derek Fisher would be eating.

[Ice009]

What do you have against Jalen Green, or are you laughing at the Rockets drafting him?

[Guru of Nothing]

Laughing for the Rockets paying him and, and for all the wishing that followed.

[couchman]

Generational getting used every 3 years isn't really meeting the definition of the word.
People should just wash that word out they mouth until they really think about it.

In societal terms, a generation is usually every 20-25 years.
If we're generous, we can rename it in basketball terms to say every ten years.
I know we're talking about generational PROSPECTS, but when it comes to actual players in NBA history the generational list is very short.


1950's - George Mikan
1960's - Wilt Chamberlain
1970's - Kareen Abdul-Jabbar
1980's - Bird (and Magic), but really Larry Bird
1990's - Jordan, the true GOAT
2000's - No one. This generation's top spot was shared by Tim Duncan, Kobe, Shaq & LeBron
2010's - LeBron James
2020's - Nikola Jokic

[heyheymymy]

back in the 00s I absolutely hated the Lakers, Mavs and Suns.