Pick #2 - Strategies

[Mr. Body]

For the third year in a row, I didn't watch the lottery. For the third year in a row, we came out smelling of gold.

Here are some general thoughts on routes we can take with our continued good fortune.

1. Take Dylan Harper. Comes from phenomenal NBA pedigree, very skilled player who could grow into a full-time offensive load-bearer. Shades of Harden and some other players. Problem? His skill-set massively overlaps with De-Aaron Fox, Stephon Castle, and even Victor Wembanyama, who all need the lane to be fully effective. (In fact, I think he's very similar to Castle in many ways, less of a defender, better scorer.) He's also high usage, which may be a problem, too.

2. Trade back. It's been long consensus that Harper is the number two guy in this draft and a potential franchise guy who would be highly attractive for teams in nearby range. If he doesn't fit the team, the Spurs could bump back a few slots and get a nice package of current or future assets. I wonder if the SAS have had a player dear to their hearts who fits their need badly who may actually project to be just as good as Harper in the future (*cough cough*Tre Johnson*cough cough*).

3. Heist Flagg. Dallas is a conundrum. Their window is extremely short, their GM is mental. They badly want Giannis, it appears. The smart set takes Flagg, but... Giannis! Paired with AD, that's quite a frontline. I'm sure Milwaukee would love to have Flagg, but Harper may actually be a better bet for them. Flagg is a super-charged utility guy, Harper may be a new Lillard type. Can the Spurs get in there for a lovely threesome, get Dallas their Giannis, get a nice package of assets and Harper to the Bucks and come away with Flagg? It... doesn't seem impossible.

[Guru of Nothing]

Just a vibe, but I'm confident Giannis will be a Spur when all the deals are finished.

[Mr. Body]

Oh yeah I didn't include that one:

4. Trade for Giannis. I don't think this is happening. He's 30 years old and I don't see the Spurs burning a long-term asset in favor of a few years.

[Trainwreck2100]

Heist Flagg. Dallas is a conundrum. Their window is extremely short, their GM is mental. They badly want Giannis, it appears. The smart set takes Flagg, but... Giannis! Paired with AD, that's quite a frontline. I'm sure Milwaukee would love to have Flagg, but Harper may actually be a better bet for them. Flagg is a super-charged utility guy, Harper may be a new Lillard type. Can the Spurs get in there for a lovely threesome, get Dallas their Giannis, get a nice package of assets and Harper to the Bucks and come away with Flagg? It... doesn't seem impossible

Why wouldn't bucks just trade giannis flagg straight up in your scenario? The only way flagg falls is if Nico gets high in his own supply and tries to be smart. And I seriously doubt the mavs owner trades a white boy for a foreigner

[LeBowen]

The first priority should be seeing if Nico is retarded enough to move down a spot. Even if it takes 3 extra FRPs, you do it.
Forget about Bucks not taking Flagg in a trade with the Mavs.
After this one doesn't happen, there should be extensive scouting and evaluation done.
Imo, workouts will determine if Harper warrants a pick considering the suboptimal fit.

Trade back? I don't see any realistic scenarios. Brandon Miller and Trey Murphy III are the only two players that would intrigue me.

Potential Giannis trade will happen before the draft, I don't think it will drag on too long. And I'm not sure he gets traded.
One of Harper or Castle, whoever else they want on the roster except Fox/Wemby and 4 to 5 FRPs would be my best offer.

[Trainwreck2100]

Oh yeah I didn't include that one:

4. Trade for Giannis. I don't think this is happening. He's 30 years old and I don't see the Spurs burning a long-term asset in favor of a few years.

Well it's happening if the spurs can keep the cost low that 2nd pick is gone

[ginobilized]

The Spurs are in the fabled cat bird seat! What a tremendous stroke of good luck.
Interviews and workouts will be huge. So many moving pieces now in play throughout the league. Spurs are in the game as much as anyone.

[spurraider21]

btw, Trey Murphy cant be traded until July 1

[TekXX]

After the moronic trade and the shit Nico had to take i don't think he'll trade Flagg, even for Giannis

[mo7888]

There's just alot of interesting paths we can take. My favorite it getting in the 3-way to get Flagg. After that I'd really like to explore trading back (but not too far). If I didn't like the package I'd be very happy to take Harper and somebody like McNeeley at #14 and call it a day.

[spurraider21]

in the event dallas makes a trade for Giannis, i just cant envision the Bucks electing for a version where they get Dylan Harper back and not Flagg

[baseline bum]

Why wouldn't bucks just trade giannis flagg straight up in your scenario? The only way flagg falls is if Nico gets high in his own supply and tries to be smart. And I seriously doubt the mavs owner trades a white boy for a foreigner

It could work if Flagg tells them fuck you I'll go back to Duke if you don't trade me to San Antonio. It's a long shot as I doubt he's risking that payday but that's how it could happen.

[Mr. Body]

The first priority should be seeing if Nico is retarded enough to move down a spot. Even if it takes 3 extra FRPs, you do it.
Forget about Bucks not taking Flagg in a trade with the Mavs.
After this one doesn't happen, there should be extensive scouting and evaluation done.
Imo, workouts will determine if Harper warrants a pick considering the suboptimal fit.

Trade back? I don't see any realistic scenarios. Brandon Miller and Trey Murphy III are the only two players that would intrigue me.

Potential Giannis trade will happen before the draft, I don't think it will drag on too long. And I'm not sure he gets traded.
One of Harper or Castle, whoever else they want on the roster except Fox/Wemby and 4 to 5 FRPs would be my best offer.

Harper paired with Anthony Davis works better than Flagg, more balanced at least. Give some decent young players like Vassell, who knows what Nico does, lol.

Trading back -- I need to think about things, but I'm not sure I have Edgecombe or Johnson too far off from Harper. But maybe the gap is too serious. Harper could wind up being a superstar. Johnson, however, is precisely the gunner the team could use. I do think they'll consider calls from Philly and Utah, etc.

[Mr. Body]

Btw, here is James Harden, a crafty, bulky guard out of Arizona State, against Dylan Harper, a crafty, bulky guard out of Rutgers. Note that Harden was a sophomore.

https://tankathon.com/players/compare?players=dylan-harper--james-harden

[cjw]

in the event dallas makes a trade for Giannis, i just cant envision the Bucks electing for a version where they get Dylan Harper back and not Flagg

Dallas may not have the assets the Spurs do. Depends on how the first pick is valued relative to the second plus the rest of the draft capital the Spurs have.

Still think Flagg is worth more.

[Gibbz]

Dylan Harper or trade for Giannis. Flagg and Harper seem clearly ahead of everyone else in the class.

[spurraider21]

whats funny is the only reason the Flagg/Mavs fit seems just a bit odd is AD's insistence that he only play the 4. he made a big fuss about it in LA, and Dallas made sense as a destination because he would play the 4 alongside Lively/Gafford.

If AD would just nut up and play center, then it all works out

but either way, mavs are taking and holding Flagg. i know "but nico"... but that caveat makes any serious discussion implausible since there is literally no predictability

[spurraider21]

i think the trade-back scenario makes a lot of sense too. after this year, we no longer have excess first round picks, we just have one per year (with swap rights build into a few of them, to be fair). we can move back, reload on those excess assets to help make trades later, and land a coveted shooter like Tre Johnson or Kon if that's what they want.

washington has some nice picks with swap rights with phoenix, and they're desperate for a franchise guy to kind of glue together their amalgamation of solid yet awkward players

[mo7888]

Here's a thought (maybe a brain fart), but what if Dallas decides they want to take the long approach and build around Flagg instead of trading for Giannis? If they called and offered AD for #2 + our choice of filler, what would you say?

[Gibbz]

If they called and offered AD for #2 + our choice of filler, what would you say?

FUCK no

[spurraider21]

Here's a thought (maybe a brain fart), but what if Dallas decides they want to take the long approach and build around Flagg instead of trading for Giannis? If they called and offered AD for #2 + our choice of filler, what would you say?
mavs made a big stink about trading away Luka because they prioritized defense. Davis was how they sold it. trading him for Harper doesnt add up at all. they are looking to win now, they dont have great draft capital.

doesnt make much sense for the spurs either, as awesome as a healthy Davis is

[HankChinaski]

We don't want street clothes rubbing his weak ass bones and infecting them with it

[LeBowen]

whats funny is the only reason the Flagg/Mavs fit seems just a bit odd is AD's insistence that he only play the 4. he made a big fuss about it in LA, and Dallas made sense as a destination because he would play the 4 alongside Lively/Gafford.

If AD would just nut up and play center, then it all works out

but either way, mavs are taking and holding Flagg. i know "but nico"... but that caveat makes any serious discussion implausible since there is literally no predictability

For me the serious discussion would be about if Harper is that far away from Flagg as a prospect?
If they pick Flagg, they simply have to find another creator. And they have very little to do it with.

As I wrote in that other topic, the realistic trade I could see happening is giving them back their 2030 swap and getting PJ Washington.
He'll be completely redundant there with Flagg and Mavs need to get back any assets they can.
With Flagg being there, that swap's value has dropped significantly

[vy65]

The first priority should be seeing if Nico is retarded enough to move down a spot. Even if it takes 3 extra FRPs, you do it.
Forget about Bucks not taking Flagg in a trade with the Mavs.
After this one doesn't happen, there should be extensive scouting and evaluation done.
Imo, workouts will determine if Harper warrants a pick considering the suboptimal fit.

Trade back? I don't see any realistic scenarios. Brandon Miller and Trey Murphy III are the only two players that would intrigue me.

Potential Giannis trade will happen before the draft, I don't think it will drag on too long. And I'm not sure he gets traded.
One of Harper or Castle, whoever else they want on the roster except Fox/Wemby and 4 to 5 FRPs would be my best offer.

I was thinking about Brandon, but the problem with that is the fit with Lamelo.

[SupremeGuy]

Fuck man, we have too many fucking guards/wings already but Harper is legit. lol

Trade the pick along with at least a wing or two for a big. If the Bucks would really trade Giannis for the #2, Vassell, and Keldon; we pull that trigger.

[stnick2261]

I’d rather have Flagg than Harper (willing to trade
up for him), but I’d rather have Castle+Harper together than trade them
both for Flagg. I wouldn’t want to trade down.

Unless another miracle happens, draft Harper and (Fleming/McNeeley) and a Big in the 2nd round.

[SupremeGuy]

Here's a thought (maybe a brain fart), but what if Dallas decides they want to take the long approach and build around Flagg instead of trading for Giannis? If they called and offered AD for #2 + our choice of filler, what would you say?
At first I wanted to say fuck that shit but ehhhh maybe wouldn't be that bad.

[Arcadian]

Oh yeah I didn't include that one:

4. Trade for Giannis. I don't think this is happening. He's 30 years old and I don't see the Spurs burning a long-term asset in favor of a few years.

I don't think 30 should be the cutoff where you're unwilling to trade for a superstar. In modern basketball, 30 is still in the peak years (usually)

[Racspur1]

The Spurs are in the fabled cat bird seat! What a tremendous stroke of good luck.
Interviews and workouts will be huge. So many moving pieces now in play throughout the league. Spurs are in the game as much as anyone.

MORE than anyone if Silver stays out of the way ! PATFO have still not gotten over the screwing the league gave them with the Pau to Fakers deal in 2008 that Pop raised hell about for not being able to bid on !!! ( Sound familiar ? Think Luka !!! )

[CGD]

Even is Dallas wanted to trade for Giannis they dont have the juice with Flagg alone. Looking at their contracts, MIL would need to take on long term money (Klays deal), plus Dallas' FRPs are encumbered from 27 on.

[SpursGenius]

Just a vibe, but I'm confident Giannis will be a Spur when all the deals are finished.
Why do you idiots want 3 year window with a guy who can’t shoot. No thanks to Giannis. It would cost everything spurs have for three year window. Wemby would def walk after second contract. Get Harper and Fleming and go for th dynasty.

[Racspur1]

It could work if Flagg tells them fuck you I'll go back to Duke if you don't trade me to San Antonio. It's a long shot as I doubt he's risking that payday but that's how it could happen.

Can flagg do that ? can he opt to go back to Duke ?

[baseline bum]

Can flagg do that ? can he opt to go back to Duke ?

Yeah he can still go back. I forget the deadline but know it's after the lottery.

[SpursBills]

What is the surplus value of Flagg to you guys? If Nico asks for #2, Castle, and Spurs 26 with Atlanta swap attached are you guys doing that?

Nico can start Harper castle AD and lively and avoids the logjam at the 4-5

[Racspur1]

Wemby is going nowhere !!! He's where he wants to be !

[exstatic]

1. Take Dylan Harper
2. The
3. End

Don’t overthink this.

[paperboy77]

Oh yeah I didn't include that one:

4. Trade for Giannis. I don't think this is happening. He's 30 years old and I don't see the Spurs burning a long-term asset in favor of a few years.

I think of this like when Timmy joined a still badass Admiral for a few years and a couple of titles. Gianis is way younger and more in his prime than the Timmy/David ever was. If you can get Giannis you do it.

[spursistan]

For me the serious discussion would be about if Harper is that far away from Flagg as a prospect?
If they pick Flagg, they simply have to find another creator. And they have very little to do it with.

As I wrote in that other topic, the realistic trade I could see happening is giving them back their 2030 swap and getting PJ Washington.
He'll be completely redundant there with Flagg and Mavs need to get back any assets they can.
With Flagg being there, that swap's value has dropped significantly
Yeah, i was more irked about Flagg ending up in one of Houston/Dallas than the Spurs missing out on him.. And I don't think a he and Harper are separated by a stratosphere like the media are painting it..

[baseline bum]

Here's a thought (maybe a brain fart), but what if Dallas decides they want to take the long approach and build around Flagg instead of trading for Giannis? If they called and offered AD for #2 + our choice of filler, what would you say?

Giannis I'll pay supermax for but no thanks paying a supermax to Street Clothes for three years. Spurs would likely have no trouble prying Trey Murphy and some picks out of NOP for Harper if they can't get Giannis and I'd take that over Street Clothes any day.

[cd98]

Draft Harper. You can always trade for a player later in the draft so you ensure you get the person you want if it isn't Harper and you can always trade him to the Bucks later as they would pick him if we gave them the number two pick.

I wouldn't mind having him as he will probably be better than Castle and Fox in 3 years.

[TekXX]

Flagg isn't going back to Duke. He has a chance to be relevant on a good team in Dallas, he can't pass that up and end up in Washington next year.

[Mugen]

Draft Harper. Extend Fox. Trade Fox in a year or two.

Profit.

[PopTheGOAT]

I’m happy with Fox, but I think finding a way to ship him in a deal for Giannis while keeping pick #2 would be ideal. Maybe Fox, #14, future firsts for Giannis?

That’s a tough decision. Fox will probably be better than Harper for the next couple of years but Harper’s potential is real. Whatever happens it’s good times over here.

[dbestpro]

Vassel and Johnson are on their way out. Harper and an nba big are on their way in.

[Guru of Nothing]

Why do you idiots want 3 year window with a guy who can’t shoot. No thanks to Giannis. It would cost everything spurs have for three year window. Wemby would def walk after second contract. Get Harper and Fleming and go for th dynasty.

I won't waste my time insulting your reading comprehension, nor yours.

[baseline bum]

I think of this like when Timmy joined a still badass Admiral for a few years and a couple of titles. Gianis is way younger and more in his prime than the Timmy/David ever was. If you can get Giannis you do it.

Giannis would be a year younger than David was when Tim joined the team but without all the back problems David had after the 1996 Olympics, so hopefully he'd age better than David did.

[PopTheGOAT]

I really think Spurs should tell Milwaukee to shove it if they ask for Castle as part of the deal

[Mr. Body]

What is the surplus value of Flagg to you guys? If Nico asks for #2, Castle, and Spurs 26 with Atlanta swap attached are you guys doing that?

Nico can start Harper castle AD and lively and avoids the logjam at the 4-5

I don' think I could do Castle plus Harper for Flagg. Harper is really good and I think Castle is going to be excellent wherever he is. Castle and Harper could be a nasty backcourt.

[LeBowen]

I’m happy with Fox, but I think finding a way to ship him in a deal for Giannis while keeping pick #2 would be ideal. Maybe Fox, #14, future firsts for Giannis?

That’s a tough decision. Fox will probably be better than Harper for the next couple of years but Harper’s potential is real. Whatever happens it’s good times over here.

Forget about any trade involving Fox for at least a couple of years.
He forced his way out to join the Spurs specifically, we'd never do him like that.

[Mugen]

You don’t hire Mitch Fn Johnson as your head coach before trading for Giannis, it’s not happening :lol

if they get an absolute godfather offer to trade down then go for it. But Harper is a stud and they can figure out fit later. It’s an amazing problem to have tbh.

[paperboy77]

Why wouldn't bucks just trade giannis flagg straight up in your scenario? The only way flagg falls is if Nico gets high in his own supply and tries to be smart. And I seriously doubt the mavs owner trades a white boy for a foreigner

Dude probably is high and two... Giannis want's out. Best case scenario is they get a do over with Flagg and sell the hype.

[skin27]

2nd pick is great for the spurs

[benefactor]

I don't think 30 should be the cutoff where you're unwilling to trade for a superstar. In modern basketball, 30 is still in the peak years (usually)
Yeah, people are acting like he's close to retirement age. He will still be very good a couple seasons from now.

Fox, Wemby and Giannis can win ring with the right mix of role players. Do you put your faith in that? Maybe Harper it becomes an elite player and something works out long term and that becomes a championship team. Do you put your faith in that? I personally put my faith in the player that's already a champion. He's a good personality fit as well. But i'm not going to be mad if we stay the course. All of these are good problems to have.

[baseline bum]

I’m happy with Fox, but I think finding a way to ship him in a deal for Giannis while keeping pick #2 would be ideal. Maybe Fox, #14, future firsts for Giannis?

That’s a tough decision. Fox will probably be better than Harper for the next couple of years but Harper’s potential is real. Whatever happens it’s good times over here.

Spurs would burn bridges with every agent in the league if they pulled that. Even if you don't care about pissing off De'Aaron after he forced his way here it's still bad business.

[baseline bum]

What is the surplus value of Flagg to you guys? If Nico asks for #2, Castle, and Spurs 26 with Atlanta swap attached are you guys doing that?


Absolutely, in a fucking second

[TekXX]

Were ya'll that impressed by Fox that he's untradeable?

[PopTheGOAT]

Forget about any trade involving Fox for at least a couple of years.
He forced his way out to join the Spurs specifically, we'd never do him like that.
Yeah I don’t think they do it. #2 is an awkward spot with Bailey being a better fit, but Harper seems like the better prospect. Shuffling rotations with Harper, Castle, Fox would be interesting.

if the mocks I’ve seen for a Giannis trade are close to accurate, I think we should hold tight with the young guys

[vy65]

Sadly, the thing that would make the most sense is to trade Fox. But that ain’t happening.

Vecenie is saying Harper>Castle. Would CHA do castle + 14 for B Miller? Would that package get us TMIII?

[CGD]

At this point, you just take the talent and draft Harper.

If one of the lotto teams that needs a PG (NOP, WAS, UTH) makes a ridiculous offer you entertain it, but since they'll still be rebuilding next season it is unlikely that they would attach a nice future asset which is what I'd want.

Houston will probably now feel a need to up their offer for Giannis, which diminishes my interest in engaging in the bidding war for him.

[PopTheGOAT]

Spurs would burn bridges with every agent in the league if they pulled that. Even if you don't care about pissing off De'Aaron after he forced his way here it's still bad business.
Yeah I agree. I don’t think Spurs trade. We lowkey might’ve just pulled an OKC. Wemby, Castle, Harper/Bailey could be our KD, Westbrook, Harden. The move now is just don’t f it up.

[mudyez]

At this point, you just take the talent and draft Harper.

If one of the lotto teams that needs a PG (NOP, WAS, UTH) makes a ridiculous offer you entertain it, but since they'll still be rebuilding next season it is unlikely that they would attach a nice future asset which is what I'd want.

Houston will probably now feel a need to up their offer for Giannis, which diminishes my interest in engaging in the bidding war for him.

This!

[Mikesatx]

Why did Harper & Bailey choose Rutgers?

If one school has the apparent 2nd & 3rd overall picks how do they not make the tournament?

[mo7888]

Here's another...say Luka tells LA he won't resign there. Would you offer #2 for Luka?

I know im throwing stuff against the wall...don't get your panties in a wad over it... I'm just trying to get people to think a little broader and maybe come up with an unconventional idea or two for the fun if it.

[rascal]

Draft Harper and move off Vassell.

Time to trade Vassell for frontline help.

[baseline bum]

Yeah I agree. I don’t think Spurs trade. We lowkey might’ve just pulled an OKC. Wemby, Castle, Harper/Bailey could be our KD, Westbrook, Harden. The move now is just don’t f it up.

I think drafting Bailey would be f'ing it up, man I really don't like him when he has no handle. He's a high ceiling - high bust potential project IMO, especially coming in shorter than anticipated as his size was a huge part of the upside appeal.

[TrainOfThought5]

Absolutely, in a fucking second

youre a madman

[DAF86]

3. Heist Flagg. Dallas is a conundrum. Their window is extremely short, their GM is mental. They badly want Giannis, it appears. The smart set takes Flagg, but... Giannis! Paired with AD, that's quite a frontline. I'm sure Milwaukee would love to have Flagg, but Harper may actually be a better bet for them. Flagg is a super-charged utility guy, Harper may be a new Lillard type. Can the Spurs get in there for a lovely threesome, get Dallas their Giannis, get a nice package of assets and Harper to the Bucks and come away with Flagg? It... doesn't seem impossible.

Oh, I fucking love this and it didn't even cross my mind. Trade #2, Castle and whatever it takes to the Bucks, the Mavs get Giannis and we get Flagg. :wow

[baseline bum]

Why did Harper & Bailey choose Rutgers?

If one school has the apparent 2nd & 3rd overall picks how do they not make the tournament?

To question #1:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBwAxmrE194

For question #2 it's a valid concern and an argument I have made here before, which is why I'm leaning towards moving Harper to go after Giannis. The other side of that argument is that Rutgers had terrible recruits everywhere #3 through #12 on their roster. With Bailey having no handles whatsoever though if the Spurs aren't going big game hunting with the pick I'll chance the scrub teammates argument being the reason they couldn't make the tourney.

[rascal]

Absolutely, in a fucking second

No way

Spurs are well on their way to building a dynasty as it is now without trading any future draft picks.

Trade Vassell for frontline help and add a couple of rotation shooters via fa or future drafts and draft a SF at 14 and the Spurs are set.

[PopTheGOAT]

I think drafting Bailey would be f'ing it up, man I really don't like him when he has no handle. He's a high ceiling - high bust potential project IMO, especially coming in shorter than anticipated as his size was a huge part of the upside appeal.
I prefer Harper as a prospect. Just a bit of an awkward team fit with Castle and Fox. It already felt like Castle was getting pushed aside a bit with the Fox addition. Throwing another guard in the fold would make that murkier. This is the modern NBA and they’re both big guards, however.

[ulosturedge]

I feel like some of y'all are willing to give up too much for Flagg. Is he the 2nd coming or something? Giannis would be too expensive in assets, in salary, and he's already at the latter part of his career. I'm either taking Harper or trading back a few spots if some team is willing to give away a bounty and take someone like Tre Johnson or Derik Queen.

[Mr. Body]

Why did Harper & Bailey choose Rutgers?

If one school has the apparent 2nd & 3rd overall picks how do they not make the tournament?

Dylan's brother Ron Harper Jr went to Rutgers and so there's some kind of history there. I don't know why Ace went there. The team and coach sucked.

[SpursGenius]

It will be Harper. Let’s hope 14 is Fleming. Fleming shooting up draft boards. Now 10 on cbs mock draft.

[Uriel]

My first choice would be to trade for Giannis. If that doesn't happen, I'd be torn between drafting Harper outright at #2 or trading down for Bailey and getting additional assets.

[rascal]

Spurs can have the best three guard rotation in the league with Fox, Harper and Castle.

[cd98]

Mavs would not trade Cooper Flagg for any other player but Wemby. This is a moment where the basketball gods smiled on them. No way they trade him for older players. He's perfect next to Davis and he is good enough to make a difference immediately. It was painful when the Spurs name got called at two thinking of what could've been. But hey, let's whine about getting the number 2 pick with a roster that already has a lot of young talent with a player of a generation at the centerpiece.

[Mr. Body]

Major benefit to Harper - along with Fox - is that a lot of the scoring load comes off Wembanyama.

[HankChinaski]

Spurs can have the best three guard rotation in the league with Fox, Harper and Castle.

I think that is the way to go.

Nothing motivates someone to get better more than healthy competition.

Now the spurs just need to get off of Keldon and or Vassell to improve the front court.

[DAF86]

I wonder if MATFO are regretting that Fox trade right about now.

[DAF86]

Time to start doing that in depth analysis of Harper vs Bailey, tbh.

[paperboy77]

I really think Spurs should tell Milwaukee to shove it if they ask for Castle as part of the deal

What's the infatuation with Castle? I truly don't get it.... at least not for a top 5 five player. That's just silly in my opinion.

[CGD]

Mavs would not trade Cooper Flagg for any other player but Wemby. This is a moment where the basketball gods smiled on them. No way they trade him for older players. He's perfect next to Davis and he is good enough to make a difference immediately. It was painful when the Spurs name got called at two thinking of what could've been. But hey, let's whine about getting the number 2 pick with a roster that already has a lot of young talent with a player of a generation at the centerpiece.

Didn't AD bitch about having to play the C? This will pretty much assure that now.

[Mugen]

I wonder if MATFO are regretting that Fox trade right about now.

:lol Why? They basically got Fox for 50c on the dollar. They need to make the playoffs next season. Fox in the backcourt gets them a lot closer to that goal than a Harper/Castle backcourt tbh.

Worst case scenario they can trade Fox in a season or two for a better fit. He'll still be worth a lot on the trade market (a lot more than what the FO got him for)

[Mugen]

Harper is basically a left handed Primo that is actually good. If y'all think BWrong is passing on him, you haven't been paying attention tbh :lol

[KobesAchilles]

This is a very interesting scenario. I think it comes down to one central question. Are either one of Castle or Harper going to be better than Fox? Bc if so then that means we are drafting Harper and trading Fox in like 3 years. Which might work out perfectly anyways for us. It’s the reverse OKC where we keep the young guard talent and pair them with Wemby for the next decade.

Or do you think that Harper won’t be better than Fox and in that case do you take Bailey at the 2 pick. He has size and length and his shooting form is actually good unlike some forwards we have. Right away he helps as a rebounder and would be a starter on our team by seasons end.

[baseline bum]

I wonder if MATFO are regretting that Fox trade right about now.

I doubt it, considering how little they gave up to get him. If Harper really pans out you trade Fox in three years and you probably get more back than you gave up to get him.

[Mikesatx]

No one offered more cash than Rutgers? The family connection makes sense but for 2 overall I’d want to be crystal clear on both points. Harper & Bailey translated to 8 more wins I think versus the previous year.

[Mr. Body]

I don't think there's any real conversation between a Harper and Bailey tbh. Bailey is pretty low IQ, a ball stopper, isn't really high feel. He can go on a heater, has good size and athleticism, but isn't a smart player and has some small red flags like a poor FT percentage. Also hadn't a good defender.

Just on ballstopping alone I don't think there's an attraction.

[objective]

Man, I just can't see enough ball to go around with Harper.

Fox and Castle and Wemby will dominate the hell out of touches, not enough oxygen left for Harper. Too many guys who need the ball and can't be counted to spread the floor and make shots. Imagine Sochan stinking up the offense with his anti-gravity field. Or Vassell clanking. Or Keldon doing nothing without the ball and the driving lane.

I say trade the pick if possible. Could they get bonus picks and Knueppel from Washington?

Sure the Fox trade is messing things up but if Wemby never gets the clot Spurs might have been 13 or 14. What's done is done.

Frustrating because I don't think VJ is a much better fit though he's a better shooter allegedly

[baseline bum]

I think this stroke of luck tonight sadly ensures CP3 isn't brought back if they don't trade for Giannis. Which frees the team up to spend their MLE on some shooting at the forward spot.

[playbonner15]

After the moronic trade and the shit Nico had to take i don't think he'll trade Flagg, even for Giannis

This. Nico got to much heat from that trade... Unless he thinks Flagg will not fit with the current roster and timeline, then he might pass on Flagg, but I think this time, he'll make the rational decision to keep that #1 pick

[rascal]

I think that is the way to go.

Nothing motivates someone to get better more than healthy competition.

Now the spurs just need to get off of Keldon and or Vassell to improve the front court.

Time to move away from Keldon and Vassell. They have had their opportunities and trade them for Frontline help.

[rascal]

I think this stroke of luck tonight sadly ensures CP3 isn't brought back if they don't trade for Giannis. Which frees the team up to spend their MLE on some shooting at the forward spot.

CP3 doesn't make any sense now. He isn't going to be getting any minutes and sure won't be happy with that.

[LeBowen]

Man, I just can't see enough ball to go around with Harper.

Our issue this season was that for some reason they still went with everyone shares the ball approach.
From this point onward, our wings need to be role players.
Fox/Castle/Harper can bring the ball up, Wemby can have some of his isos, but others should be reduced to catch and shoot, catch and drive and simple cuts.
If they're still on the roster, that is.

No more ballhandling duties for Devin, Keldon and especially Jeremy. It's over.

[baseline bum]

I don't think there's any real conversation between a Harper and Bailey tbh. Bailey is pretty low IQ, a ball stopper, isn't really high feel. He can go on a heater, has good size and athleticism, but isn't a smart player and has some small red flags like a poor FT percentage. Also hadn't a good defender.

Just on ballstopping alone I don't think there's an attraction.

Bailey is the kind of guy I'd take an upside swing on after Edgecombe and Tre Johnson are off the board rather than draft Maluach, Kneuppel, Queen, or Bryant but no way I'm even thinking him at 2.

[spursistan]

I don't think there's any real conversation between a Harper and Bailey tbh. Bailey is pretty low IQ, a ball stopper, isn't really high feel. He can go on a heater, has good size and athleticism, but isn't a smart player and has some small red flags like a poor FT percentage. Also hadn't a good defender.

Just on ballstopping alone I don't think there's an attraction.
Yeah, i don't know why this still somehow a conversation here. Harper is the absolute better prospect and a lock to go second. You could argue that Harper is closer to Flagg than Ace to Dylan as prospect..

[rascal]

Man, I just can't see enough ball to go around with Harper.

Fox and Castle and Wemby will dominate the hell out of touches, not enough oxygen left for Harper. Too many guys who need the ball and can't be counted to spread the floor and make shots. Imagine Sochan stinking up the offense with his anti-gravity field. Or Vassell clanking. Or Keldon doing nothing without the ball and the driving lane.

I say trade the pick if possible. Could they get bonus picks and Knueppel from Washington?

Sure the Fox trade is messing things up but if Wemby never gets the clot Spurs might have been 13 or 14. What's done is done.

Frustrating because I don't think VJ is a much better fit though he's a better shooter allegedly

Stop it "not enough ball". You trade Vassell, Keldon even Sochan to add shooting and size.

[baseline bum]

Time to move away from Keldon and Vassell. They have had their opportunities and trade them for Frontline help.

It would be time to move away from Keldon and Vassell even if they got #10 and #14. Vassell is such a disaster when he puts the ball on the floor and isn't a high end shooter so with his horrible D he is such a negative.

[Chinook]

:lol Why? They basically got Fox for 50c on the dollar. They need to make the playoffs next season. Fox in the backcourt gets them a lot closer to that goal than a Harper/Castle backcourt tbh.

Worst case scenario they can trade Fox in a season or two for a better fit. He'll still be worth a lot on the trade market (a lot more than what the FO got him for)

I think we'll look back and realize Fox didn't really go for a discount. We're comparing him to the trades that came before like Mitchell, Gobert and Bridges. Sooner than later, the trade market is going to normalize (with the new CBA, it almost has to), and two unprotected picks, a moderately protected first and multiple seconds is going to be close to what you expect from a mid-tier star.

I certainly don't think a 30-year-old Fox would get significantly more than that, especially if he's become expendable to the point that the Spurs are looking to deal him.

[scott]

Looking forward to diving into this thread later and reading everyone's ideas.

The #2 pick opens up the largest range of possibilities imaginable. Brian Wright can literally play NBA2K GM now.

[baseline bum]

Yeah, i don't know why this still somehow a conversation here. Harper is the absolute better prospect and a lock to go second. You could argue that Harper is closer to Flagg than Ace to Dylan as prospect..

Agreed, I think I'd have Bailey fifth on my board: an interesting gamble but who could be anywhere on the spectrum from Paul George to Alfredrick Hughes.

[SpursBills]

I honestly haven't followed Harper that closely this season - how is he off-ball?

Because Fox is probably not great off-ball. And all I've seen of Harper has been him playing on-ball. And so if you're playing Fox on-ball, and Harper on-ball and platooning them, somebody's minutes are getting cut short and it's probably not going to Fox. So now you've stunted some of Harper's development. And then you throw in Castle, whose entire advantage is being able to get downhill with his strength relative to his position, who now has to play almost exclusively off-ball as a limited shooter. Not only are you stunting Castle's development, but you're also stunting Harper's.

My dream scenario is that we can just trade a bunch of stuff + #2 for Flagg, even if it means giving up Castle. In a salary cap era where you can only have 2 max slots, Flagg + Wemby gives you surplus value well into their third contracts, which I don't think you can get with Harper, Castle, or anyone else. Short of that, I'm hoping somebody offers a king's ransom for Harper - maybe swapping Vassell for TMIII + 7 + 1-2 unprotected 1sts from NO or 8 + 3 Knicks 1st rounders from Brooklyn or something

Last choice is probably taking Ace or VJ #2 - would rather just stick with Harper if no good trades available and figure it out later

[Mr. Body]

Man, I just can't see enough ball to go around with Harper.

Fox and Castle and Wemby will dominate the hell out of touches, not enough oxygen left for Harper. Too many guys who need the ball and can't be counted to spread the floor and make shots. Imagine Sochan stinking up the offense with his anti-gravity field. Or Vassell clanking. Or Keldon doing nothing without the ball and the driving lane.

I say trade the pick if possible. Could they get bonus picks and Knueppel from Washington?

Sure the Fox trade is messing things up but if Wemby never gets the clot Spurs might have been 13 or 14. What's done is done.

Frustrating because I don't think VJ is a much better fit though he's a better shooter allegedly

I don't think Castle is as high usage as he was later in the season. He's a really good cutter and finding gaps in defenses. Like, really good. He played off-ball a good deal with UConn. Honestly I think we underplay how he was used and how good he was with that UConn team. He's multi-faceted. Harper and Fox is a question, yeah. I think they can play all three without a big problem though.

[vy65]

I think this stroke of luck tonight sadly ensures CP3 isn't brought back if they don't trade for Giannis. Which frees the team up to spend their MLE on some shooting at the forward spot.

Need to add Branham and Blake to the scrap heap too

[PhantomDashCam]

Timvp stealthily posted a Big Board Article.

https://www.spurstalk.com/san-antonio-spurs-big-board-1-2025-nba-draft/


2. Dylan Harper

Harper is a 6-foot-6 playmaker who is very likely to be the second pick in this draft — no matter who lands the pick. It’s fair to say he’s in his own tier behind Flagg but ahead of everyone else in this class.
Harper has star potential and San Antonio would love to land him even though lead ball-handler isn’t a pressing need due to the presence of De’Aaron Fox and Stephon Castle.

[baseline bum]

Need to add Branham and Blake to the scrap heap too

They're just here to be matching salary if the team needs to make a trade.

[Guru of Nothing]

I think this stroke of luck tonight sadly ensures CP3 isn't brought back if they don't trade for Giannis. Which frees the team up to spend their MLE on some shooting at the forward spot.

I bring CP3 back for minimum, and I think he would sign for it. Give him about 15 minutes a game, and I think he's positive asset to have to aid Mitch's development.

[BatManu20]

Harper will be the pick. Spurs will draft their backup PG #2 Overall when we desperately need a starting wing with some size :lol (still extremely grateful for thick tho tbh)

[exstatic]

You don’t hire Mitch Fn Johnson as your head coach before trading for Giannis, it’s not happening :lol

if they get an absolute godfather offer to trade down then go for it. But Harper is a stud and they can figure out fit later. It’s an amazing problem to have tbh.

Yup. First world problems. I remember the media banging the drum for the Spurs to trade the Duncan pick, because we already had a 7 footer in Robinson.

You draft the talent, then you figure out a way to make it work.

[SupremeGuy]

Fox, Castle, Harper, Me, and Wemby.

:lobt:

Do it Poop!

[BatManu20]

"Assistant Coach" :lol

1922120425087144173

[HankChinaski]

Stupid writer calling mitch the assistant coach still

[Dverde]

https://x.com/draftexpress/status/1922019281270686156?s=46

[SupremeGuy]

I bring CP3 back for minimum, and I think he would sign for it. Give him about 15 minutes a game, and I think he's positive asset to have to aid Mitch's development.Not if he has any dreams of starting.

Fox is the PG going forward.

[barakz21]

I hope we don’t trade the pick for Giannis tbh. Nearing (or already?) 30, and somewhat injury prone the past few years and coupled with a style of play that probably would decline as he ages, it feels like a huge risk giving up a piece like that. Haven’t really paid attention to the rest of the upcoming class, because it’s Flagg or bust. That said, I am excited for whoever we pick (assuming we keep it). This is also Mitch’s first opportunity to put his stamp on the team, by deciding making the best choice between Harper and Ace. I’m sure El Jefe will be there to guide him into what specifically to look at when evaluating them.

[SupremeGuy]

Harper will be the pick. Spurs will draft their backup PG #2 Overall when we desperately need a starting wing with some size :lol (still extremely grateful for thick tho tbh)Bro don't jinx shit lol

Poop can barely move anymore. His mind has been gone since Kawhi tbh.

This is my boy Mitch's team now. He's young. I really don't think he'd pull some "he's gotta get over himself" bullshit. We draft Harper.

Fox, Castle, Harper, fucking anyone, Wemby.

That's a crew.

[Ice009]

I’m happy with Fox, but I think finding a way to ship him in a deal for Giannis while keeping pick #2 would be ideal. Maybe Fox, #14, future firsts for Giannis?

That’s a tough decision. Fox will probably be better than Harper for the next couple of years but Harper’s potential is real. Whatever happens it’s good times over here.


Forget about any trade involving Fox for at least a couple of years.
He forced his way out to join the Spurs specifically, we'd never do him like that.


Spurs would burn bridges with every agent in the league if they pulled that. Even if you don't care about pissing off De'Aaron after he forced his way here it's still bad business.

Glad you guys answered that.

I will ask, though, is there a point in time that it would be OK for the Spurs to trade De'Aaron without there being any repercussions for the Spurs? LeBowen says a couple of years at least. I'm thinking more like 3 or more. When is he due for an extension?


Were ya'll that impressed by Fox that he's untradeable?

How do Spurs fans not know De'Aaron specifically forced his way here asking for a trade here? The Spurs can't just turn around and trade him due to that. It would not look good at all and could hurt the Spurs with player agents and future free agents if they did something like that.


Mavs would not trade Cooper Flagg for any other player but Wemby. This is a moment where the basketball gods smiled on them. No way they trade him for older players. He's perfect next to Davis and he is good enough to make a difference immediately. It was painful when the Spurs name got called at two thinking of what could've been. But hey, let's whine about getting the number 2 pick with a roster that already has a lot of young talent with a player of a generation at the centerpiece.

I don't know about luck. This happens after they had already traded Luka while getting nothing but major backlash about it, then Kyrie goes out for a year, and they also made the play-in giving them a 1.8% chance at the number 1 pick. How are people not kicking up a fuss about this? It seems more than just luck to me. Has any team with a lower percentage chance won the number one pick? Maybe there is and I'm wrong, as I've never really followed the lottery much since the Spurs got the number 1 pick and drafted TD, so I didn't see/follow hardly any lotteries growing up a Spurs fan.

[DAF86]

#2 for Markannen straight up? How yall feeling about that?

[BatManu20]

1922124550277345360

[fafo]

If the plan is to stand pat with Harper, then do we move Vassell and start Fox/Harper/Castle?

[SupremeGuy]

#2 for Markannen straight up? How yall feeling about that?Why would the Jazz do that? lol

But yes, obviously.

[exstatic]

At this point, you just take the talent and draft Harper.

If one of the lotto teams that needs a PG (NOP, WAS, UTH) makes a ridiculous offer you entertain it, but since they'll still be rebuilding next season it is unlikely that they would attach a nice future asset which is what I'd want.

Houston will probably now feel a need to up their offer for Giannis, which diminishes my interest in engaging in the bidding war for him.

This. Don’t overthink it.

[exstatic]

#2 for Markannen straight up? How yall feeling about that?

No. I was a big Markkanen Stan, but I’d rather have the upside and another stud guard/wing.

[Knoxxx]

I know Bailey is much maligned here but he fits a need for us and re measurements:

Flagg 6-7 3/4 7-0 Wingspan 8-10.5 standing reach
Bailey 6-7 1/2 7-0.5 Wingspan 8-11 standing reach

I don’t see anyone complaining about Flagg’s measurements, meanwhile Bailey has better length.

I’ll be interested to see his vertical. I also like that he blocks shots.

[exstatic]

If the plan is to stand pat with Harper, then do we move Vassell and start Fox/Harper/Castle?

I think if you draft Harper, and draft and keep another guard or wing at14, somebody’s gotta go. Maybe more than one somebody.

[LeBowen]

What about the number? Does Harper get the infamous #2?

[baseline bum]

#2 for Markannen straight up? How yall feeling about that?

Nope not feeling that at all, even if Utah threw in pick #5 I'm saying no

[scott]

Draft Harper. Extend Fox. Trade Fox in a year or two.

Profit.

The more I have time to marinate on it, the more I think this is it.

Draft Harper. Move Devin, Keldon and maybe Sochan to get capable forwards.

You can't trade Fox now, for a few reasons:


Spurs won't do dirty to a player who forced his way here at a discount. It would damage our ability to get players in the future.
Fox has one year remaining so his value is going to be diminished because Fox may want to test FA after being traded by the team he wanted to be at... which means...
Fox needs to sign an extension first, but when he does there will be a 6 month moratorium on trading him.


So, you sign Fox to an extension, which even at a 30% max hopefully won't look too bad after several years of 10% cap increases. If he plays two years at his current level, he'll still have great trade value right when Harper will be ready to take over as starting PG.

[Gandalf]

I honestly haven't followed Harper that closely this season - how is he off-ball?


I’ve read Harper can play off-ball, and that his off-ball three-point percentage is better (36.8%). Draft him and figure it out later - like Timvp said, he’s a tier above everyone else not named Flagg.

Wemby
Reid/Fleming
Castle
Harper
Fox

I’d like to add Naz Reid (sign-and-trade Vassell) and/or Rasheer Fleming. Forget about trading for Giannis, he’s too expensive both in terms of assets and salary for a soon-to-be declining and often-injured player.

[exstatic]

I know Bailey is much maligned here but he fits a need for us and re measurements:

Flagg 6-7 3/4 7-0 Wingspan 8-10.5 standing reach
Bailey 6-7 1/2 7-0.5 Wingspan 8-11 standing reach

I don’t see anyone complaining about Flagg’s measurements, meanwhile Bailey has better length.

I’ll be interested to see his vertical. I also like that he blocks shots.

It’s not Bailey’s measurements that put me off, it’s his archetype. He’s an alpha scorer who likely isn’t good enough to pull that lever in the NBA,so then what are you? He’s not a creator for others. His asst/tO ratio is a fraction, manifesting some of the same issues as Cam Whitmore.

[Chinook]

#2 for Markannen straight up? How yall feeling about that?

2 for Mark and 5 is closer. Harper would've been the first-overall pick last year. Mark is potentially overpaid now given his contract and lack of consistent performance. Maybe you think the Jazz were forcing Lauri to sit to tank. But the Jazz can't claim that, and we don't know how much of it is true. Pretty sure if the Spurs wanted him, they could get him without 2 or Castle being involved.

[poopbox]

I can't believe people are serious about trading for Giannis.

There is no way anyone who wants to trade for him actually watches him beyond scoreboards and highlights.

Dude is a moody selfish malcontent.

To say you want to trade for Giannis is to say you want a player who is going to force the team to give a roster spot to his brother, to get your coach fired (after playing a hand in getting the coach hired), to refuse to run even an average number of pick and rolls ( the main reason the bucks aren't as good as they should be is that Giannis doesn't like to screen and dive) and have him be hurt either at the end of the season or in the playoffs, something that has happened 3 of the last 4 years. Bonus points for talking about getting traded and playing for a championship team every off season after he won a championship.

His injuries are directly related to his brute force play style as well. Giannis is going to be one of those dudes who averages 28 and then starts averaging 18 overnight when his body breaks down.

Hard pass on this dude. Spurs would have to start playing "giannis ball" which hasn't gotten the bucks anything but early playoff exits save 1 magical season. Victor is to good for that.

[baseline bum]

I know Bailey is much maligned here but he fits a need for us and re measurements:

Flagg 6-7 3/4 7-0 Wingspan 8-10.5 standing reach
Bailey 6-7 1/2 7-0.5 Wingspan 8-11 standing reach

I don’t see anyone complaining about Flagg’s measurements, meanwhile Bailey has better length.

I’ll be interested to see his vertical. I also like that he blocks shots.

Flagg is high motor and a jack of all trades. Bailey so far is a one note player: a guy who can get off difficult jumpshots and hit them at a decent clip but who doesn't really do anything else well. And the FT shooting scares me. With all the concerns about Steph's shooting last year at UConn he was still 6 points higher at the FT line than Bailey at Rutgers.

[baseline bum]

It’s not Bailey’s measurements that put me off, it’s his archetype. He’s an alpha scorer who likely isn’t good enough to pull that lever in the NBA,so then what are you? He’s not a creator for others. His asst/tO ratio is a fraction, manifesting some of the same issues as Cam Whitmore.

Yeah I don't think he will fall nearly as much as Whitmore, but no one should be writing him in at #3 or even #4 in pen on their expected draft boards.

[itzsoweezee]

3. Heist Flagg. Dallas is a conundrum. Their window is extremely short, their GM is mental. They badly want Giannis, it appears. The smart set takes Flagg, but... Giannis! Paired with AD, that's quite a frontline. I'm sure Milwaukee would love to have Flagg, but Harper may actually be a better bet for them. Flagg is a super-charged utility guy, Harper may be a new Lillard type. Can the Spurs get in there for a lovely threesome, get Dallas their Giannis, get a nice package of assets and Harper to the Bucks and come away with Flagg? It... doesn't seem impossible.

There’s delusional and then there’s this.

[Knoxxx]

It’s not Bailey’s measurements that put me off, it’s his archetype. He’s an alpha scorer who likely isn’t good enough to pull that lever in the NBA,so then what are you? He’s not a creator for others. His asst/tO ratio is a fraction, manifesting some of the same issues as Cam Whitmore.

Bailey is regarded as a potential 27-28 PPG scorer in the NBA. Though certainly not immediately. I’m just tired of us rolling out 6-5” guys at forward, we need more length, badly.

[Mr. Body]

I know Bailey is much maligned here but he fits a need for us and re measurements:

Flagg 6-7 3/4 7-0 Wingspan 8-10.5 standing reach
Bailey 6-7 1/2 7-0.5 Wingspan 8-11 standing reach

I don’t see anyone complaining about Flagg’s measurements, meanwhile Bailey has better length.

I’ll be interested to see his vertical. I also like that he blocks shots.

If you wanted to draft measurements, just get an elephant.

[Mr. Body]

There’s delusional and then there’s this.

There's nothing delusional about Dallas wanting to get Giannis. Maybe there's no way to get in on it, but it's in play.

[BatManu20]

Harper isn't gonna be happy about coming off the bench his Rookie year tbh.

Imagine his camp asks us not to draft him for that reason :lol

[Chinook]

I can't believe people are serious about trading for Giannis.

There is no way anyone who wants to trade for him actually watches him beyond scoreboards and highlights.

Dude is a moody selfish malcontent.

To say you want to trade for Giannis is to say you want a player who is going to force the team to give a roster spot to his brother, to get your coach fired (after playing a hand in getting the coach hired), to refuse to run even an average number of pick and rolls ( the main reason the bucks aren't as good as they should be is that Giannis doesn't like to screen and dive) and have him be hurt either at the end of the season or in the playoffs, something that has happened 3 of the last 4 years. Bonus points for talking about getting traded and playing for a championship team every off season after he won a championship.

His injuries are directly related to his brute force play style as well. Giannis is going to be one of those dudes who averages 28 and then starts averaging 18 overnight when his body breaks down.

Hard pass on this dude. Spurs would have to start playing "giannis ball" which hasn't gotten the bucks anything but early playoff exits save 1 magical season. Victor is to good for that.

I do not like Giannis and have been pretty vocal about my dislike of him for years now. He and Lillard both get/got by with reputations for being awesome people despite repeatedly finding themselves in situations where they handled things poorly. I thought it was poetic justice that Giannis made the Bucks trade an actual winning player in Holiday for that loser. It's a shame that even with him trying to force his way out of a mess of his own making that many folks still thinks the Bucks owe him a trade to wherever he wants to go.

He's the last player I'd want to put around Wemby. Bad fit on the court; even worse fit off it somehow.

[poopbox]

It’s not Bailey’s measurements that put me off, it’s his archetype. He’s an alpha scorer who likely isn’t good enough to pull that lever in the NBA,so then what are you? He’s not a creator for others. His asst/tO ratio is a fraction, manifesting some of the same issues as Cam Whitmore.

He'll work fine as an isolation scorer for the spurs as someone who can punish teams for sending a 3rd guy into a Victor / Fox or Victor / Castle pick and roll. Teams actually need an isolation scorer who can get buckets around 2 established stars. Those are the teams that make the playoffs. Like Reaves for the lakers, Powerll for the clippers, Gordon for Denver, etc. Castle is fine but he doesn't have the offensive ceiling or polish that Bailey has.

Not sure what "good enough to pull the lever in the NBA" even means. Put him on the Spurs and I am positive no teams best defender or even second best defender is going to be trying to check Bailey with Fox and Victor on the court.

[mikec]

This. Don’t overthink it.

Exactly. Don't be Portland and turn down MJ because you have Drexler.

[Mr. Body]

He'll work fine as an isolation scorer for the spurs as someone who can punish teams for sending a 3rd guy into a Victor / Fox or Victor / Castle pick and roll. Teams actually need an isolation scorer who can get buckets around 2 established stars. Those are the teams that make the playoffs. Like Reaves for the lakers, Powerll for the clippers, Gordon for Denver, etc. Castle is fine but he doesn't have the offensive ceiling or polish that Bailey has.

Not sure what "good enough to pull the lever in the NBA" even means. Put him on the Spurs and I am positive no teams best defender or even second best defender is going to be trying to check Bailey with Fox and Victor on the court.

Fuck no.

[rascal]

The more I have time to marinate on it, the more I think this is it.

Draft Harper. Move Devin, Keldon and maybe Sochan to get capable forwards.

You can't trade Fox now, for a few reasons:


Spurs won't do dirty to a player who forced his way here at a discount. It would damage our ability to get players in the future.
Fox has one year remaining so his value is going to be diminished because Fox may want to test FA after being traded by the team he wanted to be at... which means...
Fox needs to sign an extension first, but when he does there will be a 6 month moratorium on trading him.


So, you sign Fox to an extension, which even at a 30% max hopefully won't look too bad after several years of 10% cap increases. If he plays two years at his current level, he'll still have great trade value right when Harper will be ready to take over as starting PG.

Now you're thinking. Two 6'6 all star level talent guards in the backcourt with Wemby for 10-15 years.

[Knoxxx]

If you wanted to draft measurements, just get an elephant.

I see, so why are they bothering to measure players?

[LeBowen]

Harper isn't gonna be happy about coming off the bench his Rookie year tbh.

Imagine his camp asks us not to draft him for that reason :lol

30mpg as a 6th man on a playoff team is way better than Mormon land or Poole party, the most likely outcomes he was looking at.

[exstatic]

Harper isn't gonna be happy about coming off the bench his Rookie year tbh.

Imagine his camp asks us not to draft him for that reason :lol

Players will be moved to get out of his way.

[exstatic]

I see, so why are they bothering to measure players?

Certainly not to compare them to far superior players just because their measurements are similar. Flagg shits all over Bailey,in spite of similar dimensions.

[exstatic]

Harper isn't gonna be happy about coming off the bench his Rookie year tbh.

Imagine his camp asks us not to draft him for that reason :lol

Nah. He gonna want to play with Wemby.

[ixiXSolidXixi]

Trade 2 for 6 Wizards pick and Bilal Coulibaly? ��

[Holt's Cat]

Draft Harper

Figure out fit later. Milwaukee will want a haul for Giannis and I think path with elite young talent on rookie deals will yield better long term result. Gives you better cap flexibility as well.

Fox trade looks even better with getting the #2 in this draft.

Also have the 14.

Major factor here is Wemby’s health, that could lead to win now mindset. Otherwise this draft became much easier for the Spurs, at least for their first 1st round pick.

[itzsoweezee]

There's nothing delusional about Dallas wanting to get Giannis. Maybe there's no way to get in on it, but it's in play.

The delusion is that you think there is even an iota of a chance that Milwaukee would want Harper instead of Flagg. That is NEVER going to happen.

[skin27]

So many what ifs, strategies, here an there. It just boils down on wemby being mature, develop a post move and stop playing stupid basketball.

[Knoxxx]

Certainly not to compare them to far superior players just because their measurements are similar. Flagg shits all over Bailey,in spite of similar dimensions.

We don’t have the 1 pick, sorry to inform you. Obviously you know I am referring to everyone flipping out about how “bad” Bailey measured. Just because you have other concerns about him, so what. I hope we draft Bailey now just to piss you off.

[lefty20]

Harper is basically a left handed Primo that is actually good. If y'all think BWrong is passing on him, you haven't been paying attention tbh :lol

Harper is a lefty?

Yeah, I'm sold.

If the Bucks are enamored with Harper then they are gonna have to settle for whatever we are willing to give up. If not, keep Harper and let the chips fall where they may. It's honestly a fantastic position for the Spurs to be in.

[Mugen]

Harper isn't gonna be happy about coming off the bench his Rookie year tbh.

Imagine his camp asks us not to draft him for that reason :lol

Doubt it, he's going to get plenty of touches to run the offense as the lead guard off the bench. And in a few years, he's going to be the starting PG next to a prime Wemby. His camp would be dumb AF to pass that opportunity up tbh.

[objective]

Harper isn't gonna be happy about coming off the bench his Rookie year tbh.

Imagine his camp asks us not to draft him for that reason :lol

True.

Daddy Ron has shown he has no problem pushing narratives for news cycles in the interest of junior. National media would love to have a new Lavar to smear the Spurs with

[Mugen]

Starters: Fox/Castle/Vassell/Barnes/Wemby
Bench: Harper/Champ/Keldon/Sochan/Backup C

Still tbd on what happens with CP3. Still a glaring hole at backup C and desperately need more shooting. But if they can move Keldon (wishful thinking) and Devin to shore up those holes, that's a playoff team tbh.

[Holt's Cat]

Man, immediate future will look a lot better with adding Fox, Castle, and Harper in last 12 months.

Still have enough of the Atlanta picks and the various pick swaps over the next 5 years to keep using the draft to replenish the supporting cast.

Stay young, keep cap flexibility. Still have a lot of tradeable assets for the right deal(s) in the coming years.

[CGD]

Trade 2 for 6 Wizards pick and Bilal Coulibaly? ��

No. But what about Dev + 14 for Middleton + 6?

[scott]

#2 for Markannen straight up? How yall feeling about that?

I was CEO of the Lauri Gang last summer... but absolutely not for me. Maybe #2 for Lauri and #5 and a future pick... but Lauri contract is now a net negative.

[exstatic]

We don’t have the 1 pick, sorry to inform you. Obviously you know I am referring to everyone flipping out about how “bad” Bailey measured. Just because you have other concerns about him, so what. I hope we draft Bailey now just to piss you off.

I was out on him before the measurements, and that did nothing to change my mind. A lot of his hype was built around a skilled 6’10” wing archetype. Those are rare. 6’8” dudes who dominate the ball inefficiently, unfortunately are not rare.

[scott]

Thinking of trade down scenarios, here is how that currently shapes up for me (my opinion will obviously differ from others... I'm not trying to saying the below is the objective truth... just my take):

#3. Philly - I don't see anyone on their team worth trading down for. But #2 for #3 and future picks? If the Spurs really liked someone better than Harper this could make sense but Philly has no reason to go for Harper... I don't see it happening.
#4. Charlotte - #2 for #4 and Brandon Miller? Hmmmmm... the fit is pretty nice honestly... but why would CHA do this? I don't see anything worth discussing here.
#5. Utah - There is an obvious fit here with Lauri. #2 for Lauri and #5? I'd still want one other pick to offset Lauri's contract. Ainge likes to win trades, so I don't know there is much to discuss here.
#6. Washington - #2 for #6 and Bilal? Only if Wemby is demanding it, I guess... I don't like it.
#7. New Orleans - I wish the Pels were higher to make this more viable. I don't want to drop to 7. I'm a huge TMIII fan, but I think I'd need to get TMIII and Herb to consider dropping to 7.

Beyond this, I think they are more likely trade ups for 14 than trade downs from 2.

[Ice009]

True.

Daddy Ron has shown he has no problem pushing narratives for news cycles in the interest of junior. National media would love to have a new Lavar to smear the Spurs with

Is Ron very hands on? Is he likely to get quite involved?

[DAF86]

Why would the Jazz do that? lol

But yes, obviously.

'Cause Markannen doesn't fit their timeline, a #2 prospect is, in theory, more than what Markannen is, and, let's face it, he would fit like a glove here, but he isn't all that, either.

I was hesitant because I don't know if I would do it as a Spurs fan, tbh.

[NASpurs]

Vassell needs the ball too much to be effective. Spurs getting the second pick is his death knell. Dude is getting traded.

[baseline bum]

We don’t have the 1 pick, sorry to inform you. Obviously you know I am referring to everyone flipping out about how “bad” Bailey measured. Just because you have other concerns about him, so what. I hope we draft Bailey now just to piss you off.

The size was the big selling point with Bailey though back when we thought he was 6'10".

[Mugen]

I don't love the trade down scenarios tbh

This draft flattens out for a while after Flagg and Harper. Harper is also a #1 pick in most drafts (think Cade). Dropping from him to #6 or something would just take a monumental overpay for me to consider it. I'm talking proven talent + multiple unprotected 1sts on top of a top 8 pick in this draft.

[Mugen]

Is Ron very hands on? Is he likely to get quite involved?

No.

Hell, even Lavar is pretty hands off nowadays. That shouldn't even register as a slight concern tbh.

[dn0774]

Bailey actually hitting anywhere near his ceiling feels like a longshot.

I'm all in for Harper, I think he could end up on a Cade trajectory. Giannis? Not really interested now tbh, he would create a short window perhaps but at considerable cost (Castle/Harper plus more salary and picks?). I also don't think Giannis/Wemby/Fox is nearly the sure thing some people think it would be. The team overall is very inexperienced and not ready for a championship or bust mentality. Top heavy veteran star teams can't last long in the apron world, you need star players on rookie deals (ie Wemby and Castle/Harper if they hit) to really stack up a decent run.

Only somewhat possible way i'd consider moving off the #2 pick is if it got back the #1 pick for Flagg. If the price was reasonable (it won't be) I would do it.

[NASpurs]

I'm surprised there isn't a "2025 Draft Prospect: Dylan Harper" thread yet :lol

[DAF86]

#2 for Troy Murphy and Herb Jones?

I'm just throwing shit at the wall at this point, tbh. :lol

[TimmehC]

I'd throw the majority of our draft assets at Dallas to see if Nico will blink. Otherwise, just draft Harper and see if you can balance the roster a little better through trades and free agency. Giannis is great and would theoretically open up a title window, but he also exacerbates the spacing issues the team already has unless a bunch of shooters are coming with him. I don't think trading back is the answer either unless you're getting an amazing young player back. If Fox/Castle/Harper turns out not to be the best fit, you can look at trades down the line but I don't think you can pass on the opportunity to make your team better in the long-term unless there's a better long-term opportunity.

[kht]

Fuck man, we have too many fucking guards/wings already but Harper is legit. lol

Trade the pick along with at least a wing or two for a big. If the Bucks would really trade Giannis for the #2, Vassell, and Keldon; we pull that trigger.

We haven't made the playoffs in 6-7 straight seasons. No considerations should be made about fit. You just take the best player available.

[kht]

Absolutely, in a fucking second

WHAT?? You'd give up Castle + Harper (potentially at #2) for Flagg? Castle literally exceeded expectations and looked like a vet out there at times. Flagg hasn't even played a second yet. Then... Atlanta's assets too? Tell me you're joking.

[ixiXSolidXixi]

What about Harper for Fran Wagner? ��

[Holt's Cat]

Mavs are going to take Flagg and hype the hell out of him.

[SupremeGuy]

'Cause Markannen doesn't fot their timeline, a #2 prospect is, in theory, more than what Markannen is, and, let's face it, he would fit like a glove here, but he isn't all that, either.

I was hasitant because I don't know if I would do it as a Spurs fan, tbh.Fills the position we need more than anything. Simple as that. Lauri Markk is good.

Man, if we do draft Harper Mitch better not pull that old school got to earn your stripes bullshit. Fox, Castle, Harper, (revolving cast of ST users), and Wemby.

[SupremeGuy]

I'd throw the majority of our draft assets at Dallas to see if Nico will blink. Otherwise, just draft Harper and see if you can balance the roster a little better through trades and free agency. Giannis is great and would theoretically open up a title window, but he also exacerbates the spacing issues the team already has unless a bunch of shooters are coming with him. I don't think trading back is the answer either unless you're getting an amazing young player back. If Fox/Castle/Harper turns out not to be the best fit, you can look at trades down the line but I don't think you can pass on the opportunity to make your team better in the long-term unless there's a better long-term opportunity.I was telling my friend(mavs fan) that Nico needs to just finish the hit. Trade the pick to us or choose someone else. Then he can go retire on a tropical island with all of Adam's Silver.

[scott]

Vecenie and Brice threw this out as a joke...

DAL sends #1 to LAL for Luka... :lol

[Bruno]

Spurs are damn lucky.

At #2, Spurs should obviously draft Harper. He is a so much better prospect than Bailey and Edgecombe. Fit isn't ideal with Fox and Castle but you can't pass on that talent and it's not like Bailey and Edgecombe are tremendous fits either.

Trade is a possibility but I guess it would take a crazy offer for Spurs to trade away the 2nd pick (or Castle).

[SPURt]

Watch Nico talk himself out of Flagg at 1, that’d be hilarious :lol

[rankingtear]

What about Harper for Fran Wagner? ��

yeah this is a good option.

[mystargtr34]

For now I’m drafting Harper and starting him next to Fox in the backcourt and bringing Castle off the bench as the backup combo guard.

At the end of next season evaluate. If Harper is the real deal and Castle takes another leap and looks like a potential borderline all star player, you can look to move Fox and have Harper-Castle as your backcourt of the future.

As for Giannis, if he was 28 or 29 I’d be all in on moving pick 2 for him but he’s 31 later this year, has a lot of mileage and his game is not predicated on skill rather strength and athleticism, so I think his decline from all nba first team caliber player will begin around age 33-34.

[Mr. Body]

Thinking of trade down scenarios, here is how that currently shapes up for me (my opinion will obviously differ from others... I'm not trying to saying the below is the objective truth... just my take):

#3. Philly - I don't see anyone on their team worth trading down for. But #2 for #3 and future picks? If the Spurs really liked someone better than Harper this could make sense but Philly has no reason to go for Harper... I don't see it happening.
#4. Charlotte - #2 for #4 and Brandon Miller? Hmmmmm... the fit is pretty nice honestly... but why would CHA do this? I don't see anything worth discussing here.
#5. Utah - There is an obvious fit here with Lauri. #2 for Lauri and #5? I'd still want one other pick to offset Lauri's contract. Ainge likes to win trades, so I don't know there is much to discuss here.
#6. Washington - #2 for #6 and Bilal? Only if Wemby is demanding it, I guess... I don't like it.
#7. New Orleans - I wish the Pels were higher to make this more viable. I don't want to drop to 7. I'm a huge TMIII fan, but I think I'd need to get TMIII and Herb to consider dropping to 7.

Beyond this, I think they are more likely trade ups for 14 than trade downs from 2.

I've cooled on the idea of trading down, was mostly testing the idea. Harper is a weird fit but his potential is franchise level.

That said, I'd trade down only so far that I could ensure I could get Edgecombe or Johnson. I have no interest in Brandon Miller. Markannen is wildly expensive contract-wise and is essentially an exalted role-player. Coulibaly is somewhat interesting but the Wizards would have to include more.

I'd be interested mostly in future picks. Maybe packaging Vassell or Keldon to upgrade with something they have but nothing really strikes me at this point.

As far as Edgecombe or Johnson... Edgecombe's shooting numbers are actually better than Harper's. He doesn't project as a focus-of-attack player. Dependent somewhat on quickness and athleticism (meaning if he gets hurt, what then?). Projects as a much better defender than Harper. High level of defensive play-creation, even if he needs seasoning there.

Johnson is the mold of what the Spurs need in terms of shooting and off-ball scoring. Possibly poor defender. A pretty good playmaker.

Just thinking the drop from Harper may be too significant, but then I wonder if Harper might be a little too esteemed right now?

[Mr. Body]

I'd throw the majority of our draft assets at Dallas to see if Nico will blink. Otherwise, just draft Harper and see if you can balance the roster a little better through trades and free agency. Giannis is great and would theoretically open up a title window, but he also exacerbates the spacing issues the team already has unless a bunch of shooters are coming with him. I don't think trading back is the answer either unless you're getting an amazing young player back. If Fox/Castle/Harper turns out not to be the best fit, you can look at trades down the line but I don't think you can pass on the opportunity to make your team better in the long-term unless there's a better long-term opportunity.

Here, yes. If I'm the FO, I really work on Dallas and see what they want.

Dallas's window really is now, and Nico has said as much. Kyrie going down really hurts them. I'm not active in wanting Giannis on the Spurs for this cost, but really try to either sell Nico on trying to get Giannis to the Mavs or that Flagg is a better SAS fit / Harper is a better Mavs fit.

I actually think there's something doable here, if very slim chance.

Tell him Dylan Harper is Derek Harper's son or something, lol.

[james evans]

keep 2nd pick, trade Johnson, Vassell, Sochan, and 14th pick to PHilly for 3rd pick. Pick Harper and Bailey and we will win at least 5 or 6 titles within the next 10 years.

[Mr. Body]

keep 2nd pick, trade Johnson, Vassell, Sochan, and 14th pick to PHilly for 3rd pick. Pick Harper and Bailey and we will win at least 5 or 6 titles within the next 10 years.

Because Harper and Bailey were really ringing them up at Rutgers.

[Atl Spur]

I’m starting to get behind this Harper kid; he seems like a strong 1b at worst! Him and castle would keep teams in foul trouble. Harp plays like envision castle playing in the near future with posting up…. What a time to be a spurs fan

[SupremeGuy]

Because Harper and Bailey were really ringing them up at Rutgers.College and NBA are way different, man.

College is more like HS tbh lol

The floor is a lot more open in the NBA.

[dn0774]

Couple thoughts, drafting Harper is obviously a clunky fit on paper given Fox and Castle exist on our roster as mentioned. Wish one of them was more of a proven shooter. I'm still high on Castle going forward and love his attitude and demeanor, but Harper projects to be a different level of offensive player than Castle. Better first step, more shiftiness/wiggle, better finishing package, better shooter.

My hope is that Castle is willing to step back from wanting to be a majority high usage on ball creator/attacker and embrace playing off ball with timely cutting and gaining a functional short corner 3. That doesn't mean he wouldn't have plenty of opportunities with the ball in his hands, it just wouldn't be like it was the last few months of his rookie season. Castle can also lock in and become the defender he was projected to be. That being said, guards historically have rough rookie and sophomore years (particularly in terms of efficiency) as Castle just found out and Harper will likely be no different.

All that to say, I am not expecting a contender next year. Do I expect playoffs? Absolutely. Elite teams always have a player or 2 who are overqualified for the role they play (think Manu a bunch of years, even Kawhi his first 4 seasons kinda) but they embrace it because winning. Castle has the opportunity to do that if the Spurs indeed draft and keep Harper.

My opinion for the 2nd pick? Draft Harper or assemble a package that gets Flagg. Harper makes more sense on Dallas and Flagg makes more sense on the Spurs, see if there is any deal to be had that reasonably compensates Dallas (#14, Vassell or Johnson thrown in, tear up a swap, etc).

[szkorhetz]

What about Harper for Fran Wagner? ��
I would do that in a heartbeat. Would also help clear the Magic's forward logjam.

[spurraider21]

guys, you only consider need/fit when you are talking about similarly tiered players and you are looking for a reason to pick one over another.

Flagg is a Davis/Zion caliber prospect and is in a tier of his own this year

but then Harper is a Cade/Paolo caliber prospect and is also a clear tier above anybody else this year. you dont take a lesser prospect because he fits more neatly in the rotation this year.

Fox is still too good not to start, and you have to figure out what to do with the others.

offensively, when it comes to point guard stuff, Harper is just a better version of Castle. comparing them as prospects, Harper is a better driver, better finisher in traffic, better midrange shooter, and got to the line more than castle did in college. he's also a better shooter, having made 38% of his catch and shoot 3's. he's not some crazy movement shooter who is going to be curling off screens, but he wont be someone defenses can just ignore the way they did Castle. they're pretty similar in passing ability though Harper was even better than Castle at creating advantages to open up passing opportunities.

he's a solid defender but not exceptional, but he has very good size and wingspan much like castle (though castle is stronger). castle was a pretty special defensive prospect, though the results in year 1 were mixed.

now if they trade the #2 pick, or trade Castle... thats a different question and would require its own analysis to determine the merit. but if we are just talking about picking #2, its not a question. its just harper

[SupremeGuy]

For now I’m drafting Harper and starting him next to Fox in the backcourt and bringing Castle off the bench as the backup combo guard.

At the end of next season evaluate. If Harper is the real deal and Castle takes another leap and looks like a potential borderline all star player, you can look to move Fox and have Harper-Castle as your backcourt of the future.

As for Giannis, if he was 28 or 29 I’d be all in on moving pick 2 for him but he’s 31 later this year, has a lot of mileage and his game is not predicated on skill rather strength and athleticism, so I think his decline from all nba first team caliber player will begin around age 33-34.Starting Harper AND Castle off the bench? Bruh what?

Castle is that dude.

[Robz4000]

I'm not sold on Harper myself tbh. The fact him and Bailey couldn't lift Rutgers into the tournament even considering the rest of the roster is damning imo. His shot is also a work in progress and as we know the Spurs have shit for a shooting coach and developmental staff these days.

[SupremeGuy]

You guys are crazy. Harper isn't '84 Jordan.

Throwing fucking Castle to the bench? I understand there needs to be a floor leader with the second unit and that would have to be Harper.

I really don't see either Castle or Harper being happy about coming off the bench.

[Obstructed_View]

If Harper is clearly the BPA at 2, then you could theoretically start two of Harper Fox and Castle and make the guy who clicks the least with Victor as your sixth man. If you can't pass him up then that's the only choice. But that means there is a ton of swingman-sized trash to take out on this roster.

[Raven]

honestly it is hard to know what to do here. Maybe trade the pick or castle for giannis, since harper-fox-castle is such a bad ... you know what.. maybe it wouldn't even be that bad since castle and harper are relatively taller.. Hmm i really wish we had a coach.

[dn0774]

I just really don't want to see the Spurs push their chips in for Giannis or any max/near max guy, the team just isn't close to that kind of title contention so don't bring back max money for no reason. I'd rather take an extremely talented kid (who would be a legit 1st pick in a lot of years) and grow with them on a rookie deal than try to force things. Our roster isn't close to contending, nor is our coaching staff. Let Fox run the show with Castle/Harper getting their turns. If things go well for them then Fox can be phased out/moved on in a couple years when he slows down and his contract balloons.

Spurs have a chance to build an OKC like core here, cashing big time assets in this off season just isn't the play. I actually think the Sochan extension is still the toughest decision this off season in all honesty.

[Raven]

I just really don't want to see the Spurs push their chips in for Giannis or any max/near max guy, the team just isn't close to that kind of title contention so don't bring back max money for no reason. I'd rather take an extremely talented kid (who would be a legit 1st pick in a lot of years) and grow with them on a rookie deal than try to force things. Our roster isn't close to contending, nor is our coaching staff. Let Fox run the show with Castle/Harper getting their turns. If things go well for them then Fox can be phased out/moved on in a couple years when he slows down and his contract balloons.

Spurs have a chance to build an OKC like core here, cashing big time assets in this off season just isn't the play. I actually think the Sochan extension is still the toughest decision this off season in all honesty.

Surely Fox Castle Vassell Giannis Wemby with so much talent in the rotation has to be conference finals team right off the bat... Assuming you get giannis for #2 of course

[MaNu4Tres]

You draft Harper without a thought. Kid can be a superstar. Him & Steph would be insane.

Move Fox to Minny.

[Uriel]

Spurs are damn lucky.

At #2, Spurs should obviously draft Harper. He is a so much better prospect than Bailey and Edgecombe. Fit isn't ideal with Fox and Castle but you can't pass on that talent and it's not like Bailey and Edgecombe are tremendous fits either.

Trade is a possibility but I guess it would take a crazy offer for Spurs to trade away the 2nd pick (or Castle).
How does Dylan Harper compare with previous draft prospects?

[dn0774]

Surely Fox Castle Vassell Giannis Wemby with so much talent in the rotation has to be conference finals team right off the bat... Assuming you get giannis for #2 of course

The expectation i've seen is that a potential deal would start with Harper/Castle/salary filler + a buncha future 1sts and be tuned from there. I agree, if it basically boiled down to #2 for Giannis you absolutely do it. The Bucks would get much much better offers from half the league, though.

[Vienna]

Dylan's brother Ron Harper Jr went to Rutgers and so there's some kind of history there. I don't know why Ace went there. The team and coach sucked.

Jamichael Davis. he is one of the best friends of Ace from his hometown, they grew up playing basketball together for McEachern high school and Davis went to Rutgers the year before.

[Ditty]

Nico is getting a second chance at life. He has no choice but to take Flagg unfortunately.

Harper will be the pick. Spurs will see what they have this year back in at least the play in.

[sfernald]

For now I’m drafting Harper and starting him next to Fox in the backcourt and bringing Castle off the bench as the backup combo guard.

At the end of next season evaluate. If Harper is the real deal and Castle takes another leap and looks like a potential borderline all star player, you can look to move Fox and have Harper-Castle as your backcourt of the future.

As for Giannis, if he was 28 or 29 I’d be all in on moving pick 2 for him but he’s 31 later this year, has a lot of mileage and his game is not predicated on skill rather strength and athleticism, so I think his decline from all nba first team caliber player will begin around age 33-34.


I don’t get it. Okc won 68 games this year playing three guards and two bigs.

There’s Shai - Fox is definitely a poorer man’s version here, but still really good

There’s Dort - Short but strong and a great defender - Sounds like Castle should work here but great height

And the third guard is Jdub. Jdub is actually a good comp for Harper. I have seen several references as such and thought of it myself before seeing said references. Jdub has great wingspan but so does Harper, over 6’10” and he’s going to be a great driver and scorer just like Jdub

i would just go with this for a season and see how it works out. Maybe trade #14 up to snag Queen and then you can have Queen/Wemby to play against Chet/iHeart.

I think this should at least get you into the playoffs next year if it worked so well for Okc.

[Raven]

The expectation i've seen is that a potential deal would start with Harper/Castle/salary filler + a buncha future 1sts and be tuned from there. I agree, if it basically boiled down to #2 for Giannis you absolutely do it. The Bucks would get much much better offers from half the league, though.

wow.. that's a laughable request.. for one of the highest paid players that is now past his prime.

[BatManu20]

Didn't realize this kid was half Filipino. Seems like a pretty well-rounded dude though tbh. Very well-spoken. Definitely a Spurs type personality.


SqHbYWQzSRc

[sfernald]

wow.. that's a laughable request.. for one of the highest paid players that is now past his prime.

Are you joking? Dude was basically 31/12/7 last year with an over 30 PER.

[spurraider21]

How does Dylan Harper compare with previous draft prospects?
offensively, you kind of just take everything about castle (other than raw strength) and make it better. better at getting to the rim. much better at finishing at the rim. gets to the line more. has a better midrange jumper. has a better 3 point shot. is just as good a passer. his rim pressure is special though. he has drawn shai comps because of how well he finishes at the rim

in terms of tier of prospect, he's probably a worthy #1 pick in years without "generational" type guys. he'd easily have gone #1 overall last year. he's probably comparable to cade in terms of prospect tier.

[Ditty]

How does Dylan Harper compare with previous draft prospects?

I believe he is top 5 in the last 5 years imo

Wemby
Flagg
Cade
Edwards
Harper

Honorable mention:
Covid Face Mask Chet

[mudyez]

No to Giannis (timeline).

No to Flagg (unless it's for #2 + two firsts max).

I like some of the trade down scenarios though. Especially the Miller one (but unsure if Charlotte shows interest) and if Pels would include Herb and Murphy.

In the end we are going to draft Harper anyway and probably it's the right choice.

[tapiefan]

Draft Dylan Harper (no brainer, he will be a superstar, as much as Flagg, more than Castle)
Trade Giannis for Castle / Vessel / KJ (it will be hard for MIL to have a better offer than the reigning ROY)

[Blizzardwizard]

you can't quibble about fit when you're picking number two in my opinion


in last year's draft? maybe but harper is such a damn good prospect that you take the best player available and figure it the fuck out


bailey and even edgecombe have intriguing athletic upside but the opportunity to run harper at the two-guard (if you believe in his shot enough) with a PG rotation of fox/castle is salivating


also taking harper likely means vassell is getting fewer touches and minutes which is probably a good thing (i think devin may actually be a considerably better player off the bench)


unless there's a godfather offer from another team to move up to #2 - or milwaukee dangle giannis - you just take a guy who'd be #1 in a ton of recent drafts and be happy about it


concerns about a future backcourt log-jam or power-struggle? i refer you to my earlier point (figure it the fuck out)

[Raven]

Are you joking? Dude was basically 31/12/7 last year with an over 30 PER.

yeah, so? He played 67 games and has played 70 or more once in the last 6 years. He wants to go, milwakee has to restart from scratch, a retool won't do them any good. they aren't getting flagg, so number 2 is the best they can hope for. What else can they get tbh

[scott]

Didn't realize this kid was half Filipino. Seems like a pretty well-rounded dude though tbh. Very well-spoken. Definitely a Spurs type personality.


SqHbYWQzSRc

Hell yeah. I’m in on this kid.

I love the OKC comp. 3 guards, 2 bigs. Let’s do it.

[John B]

I think the Spurs have the ace card here. They can keep Harper and save assets and future picks. Play 3-guards (Pop was always drooling over 3-guard offense, draft Fleming, 9’1 standing reach who can shoot the 3.

Mavs would love to run it now, instead of waiting for Kyrie and his ACL. They need a replacement- Harper is perfect. I see them listening to Flagg/Dylan swap plus multiple picks. Spurs get Flagg.

Again the Spurs doesn’t need to show too-eager. Either way works.

And no 30 yrs old Giannis. The Mavs can have him in 3-team deal.

[dn0774]

yeah, so? He played 67 games and has played 70 or more once in the last 6 years. He wants to go, milwakee has to restart from scratch, a retool won't do them any good. they aren't getting flagg, so number 2 is the best they can hope for. What else can they get tbh

Houston and theoretically OKC could open the war chests. I doubt OKC would as they are kind of in the drivers seat to win the title at this point.

[Baam]

Personally I'd go get Trey Murphy with that pick. Overpay this, overpay that, I don't care. Having an elite shooting wing will change the outlook of that roster. New Orleans is probably desperate enough too.

Original sin was trading for Fox but nothing you can do about it now.

[T Park]

#2 for Markannen straight up? How yall feeling about that?


I’d burn the arena down if they were that stupid

[Ice009]

Jazz had their chance. They wanted too much for him, they can keep him. They'd have to throw a lot more our way if that wanted that number 2 pick.

[mystargtr34]

People comparing the OKC 3-guard lineup to Fox-Harper-Castle, it’s not the same. I see the similarities but it’s not the same.

SGA - standing reach 8’8. Basically SF size length.

Lu Dort - standing reach 8’3.5 but build like a linebacker. He’s a 2/3.

Jaylen Williams - standing reach 8’9.5 standing reach. Massive even for a SF.

Fox - standing reach 8’4 and rail thin. He’s a 1.

Harper - standing reach 8’6 which is very good 2-guard size.

Castle - standing teach 8’6 same as Harper.

The biggest swing factors are Jalen Williams has straight up big SF size so he easily matches up with big physical wings. Spurs do not have that with the Fox-Harper-Castle trio. Then on offensive end you don’t have the spacing/shooting.

I think the spurs can run with it for a year to see what they have in Harper and Castle. But that lineup does not have positional size on the defensive end and doesn’t have the shooting required.

[LeBowen]

Having thought it over, it's either Flagg miracle trade up or Harper for me.

Trade for Flagg scenario wouldn't be that outrageous, copy/pasting my other post.


Since Nico is probably still on the win now timeline, maybe we could entice them by taking on Kyrie's contract? Would take out out of serious contention in the upcoming season, but it will be an expiring $44M deal.
Mavs don't have the assets to move it elsewhere and even though they got Flagg, I don't think a rookie moves the needle for them. AD will be 33 when next season's playoffs start and they don't have a single point guard on the roster.

#2, Devin, Barnes, '30 swap returned '27 ATL for #1, Kyrie

They get their point guard of the future, two very good picks and two easily moveable contracts.
Don't forget that Flagg is a New Balance guy and Nico is a former Nike executive. Harper is also Nike.





If not, just keep Harper and do the OKC/Cavs style of roster. As I said earlier, both teams play with 3 perimeter 6'6 and under guys, with 2 bigs.
The only move that would simply have to be made is getting a legit PF/C.
Naz and Aldama are unrealistic, it would have to be John Collins.
Keldon and either Jeremy or #14 pick should do it.

Fox/Harper as PG/SG
Castle/Devin as SG/SF
Barnes/Champ as SF/PF
Collins/rookie or Jeremy as PF/C
Wemby/veteran backup as C

Mitch has shown he can create a good offense, Spurs scored 117ppg in March and April, but we can't enter the season without a legit starting PF, defense would be horrible again.
A lot of teams in the West have big PFs, there's just no way around not having one.
AD, Gordon, Randle, Jabari, nephew, Lebron, JJJ, Zion, Chet, those are the PF matchups, I don't think even Jeremy is big enough. But there are way less dangerous SFs that would bully Castle.

[mystargtr34]

Also if you think 2-3 inches in height or standing reach doesn’t matter in the NBA on the defensive end, go draft a 6’8 center instead of a 6’11 center and see how it works out. Go draft a 6’5 power forward instead of a 6’8 PF and see how it works out. Go draft a 6’3 SF instead of a 6’6 SF and see how it works out.

[LeBowen]

Also if you think 2-3 inches in height or standing reach doesn’t matter in the NBA on the defensive end, go draft a 6’8 center instead of a 6’11 center and see how it works out. Go draft a 6’5 power forward instead of a 6’8 PF and see how it works out. Go draft a 6’3 SF instead of a 6’6 SF and see how it works out.

It all depends on the trends in the league.
As I just wrote, a big PF is a must, but there are not many teams that have two big forwards.
Big as in both long and strong, Castle wouldn't have issues matching with that type. MPJ or McDaniels for example.

[Mal]

#2 for Markannen straight up? How yall feeling about that?

Markanen ship already sailed. He is not worth being 3rd piece being paid 30% of cap. I would prefer 40 yrs Kevin Durant to provide shooting at lower cap hit

[jesterbobman]

Not going to bother reading everything. I'm lazy.

I think the option of a 2 + 14 + 2030 swap is feasible - seems like the about right level of draft capital, fits needs (dumb, but considered), and as we have double swap rights in 2030, big win for Dallas, limited loss for us.

I'd reject that as Dallas (Flagg is a realllly good prospect - The best comparison IMO, is something like Kawhi if he had good knees - incredible player, and get rid of ), leading to something like Harper (not quite Harden as a prospect, but pretty close as a wing sized creator), Essengue, and something at 38 for us. Huge win.

If you said a month in to the season, that we'd end up with Castle as ROY and looked like the best LT star bet in that prospect class, then Harper, I'd be doing virtual somersaults.

[Mal]

keep 2nd pick, trade Johnson, Vassell, Sochan, and 14th pick to PHilly for 3rd pick. Pick Harper and Bailey and we will win at least 5 or 6 titles within the next 10 years.

First no.
Seconds. How would Philly agree to that ? Last thing they need is to add more salary to their already expensive core.

[RC_Drunkford]

Obviously if you can trade up for #1 you do it, but it's not likely. Otherwise I like drafting Harper. People here have been clamoring for a scoring guard coming off the bench for a while now, so I don't really see the issue.

Both Castle and Harper are combo guards with enough length to play the 2. We should run a 3-guard rotation where Harper, Fox and Castle split the 96 available minutes with 2 of them always being on the court together. This will give us plenty of playmaking and rim pressure, which will especially benefit Wemby. Fox has one year left, extend him for another 4 years, then trade him when he has 1 year left and starts to lose some speed and let Harper take over.

This means we don't need any more guards. Vassell has to go. Blake Wesley and Branham are not needed either. What we need now is size and rebounding at the forward spots, which makes taking Fleming with 14 even more intriguing. I'm still an advocate for a John Collins trade. Our back up big should also be somebody who absolutely thrives in a pick & roll heavy offense. We could terrorize teams with that type of guard play for a full 48 minutes.


Another scenario I could see is trading down to get Ace Bailey if we get enough in return. I think drafting Harper is the safer route though.

[Mal]

I know Dallas has to take Flagg, to appease the fan base, but

Mavs - Giannis
Spurs - #1, PJ Washington
Bucks - #2, #14, Vassell, Gafford, multi SRPs.

Ok, I just run it, and there is no way to do it. Dallas cannot absorb Giannis contract, they would have to trade Washingon, Gafford, Klay, Christie and more, re-sign Irving to lower cap hit from 42 to like 30, which would mean he would need to sign 150/5 type of deal, at age 33 after ACL tear.

[Biggems]

Just draft Harper at 2 and Sorber at 14. Then, find a way to get Johnni Broome later in the draft and we are set.

Fox, Harper
Castle, Champ
Vassell, Johnson, Ingram
Sochan, Broome, Mamu
Wemby, Sorber, Bassey

[exstatic]

Surely Fox Castle Vassell Giannis Wemby with so much talent in the rotation has to be conference finals team right off the bat... Assuming you get giannis for #2 of course

It’ll cost a lot more than that.

[exstatic]

You draft Harper without a thought. Kid can be a superstar. Him & Steph would be insane.

Move Fox to Minny.

Spurs FO would be boycotted by every agent after Klutch bent over backwards to get us a deal. Just no.

Both Castle and Harper have the size to play minutes at the 3. It’ll work out, and in 4 YEARS, then maybe you move on from Fox.

[Kawhi Duncan]

Spurs FO would be boycotted by every agent after Klutch bent over backwards to get us a deal. Just no.

Both Castle and Harper have the size to play minutes at the 3. It’ll work out, and in 4 YEARS, then maybe you move on from Fox.

Small ball doesn't win...tired of playing guards at the sf position...big ball has been winning for decades, even in the so called small ball era

[ulosturedge]

Don't trade the farm to get Giannis, don't trade the farm to get Flagg. Take Harper or trade back if some team is willing to give you an offer you can't refuse.

[Obstructed_View]

I know Dallas has to take Flagg, to appease the fan base, but

Mavs - Giannis
Spurs - #1, PJ Washington
Bucks - #2, #14, Vassell, Gafford, multi SRPs.

Ok, I just run it, and there is no way to do it. Dallas cannot absorb Giannis contract, they would have to trade Washingon, Gafford, Klay, Christie and more, re-sign Irving to lower cap hit from 42 to like 30, which would mean he would need to sign 150/5 type of deal, at age 33 after ACL tear.
Wonder if the Spurs could get Klay from Dallas somehow. He signed with Dallas to win a title with Luka, not to babysit a rebuilding team.

[vy65]

The idea of Kevin Durant makes a lot more sense all of a sudden. Fox, Castle, The Dill, KD, Wemby should have enough length and shooting to work. That’s a playoff team with Wembys mentor along side him. Bring back CP3 for the min on a player-coach basis.

[ffadicted]

I honestly don't really care about the three guard lineup for now. Shooting is a problem for sure, but surely we can make Fox Castle Harper work with plenty of minutes for all, even in the floor at the same time. Castle and Harper have great size for their positions and can likely guard bigger players. Fox and Harper will both be ball dominant but you can make this work. The shooting numbers are unfortunate so this would rely on Harper and/or Castle developing an outside shot, but we can dream. I'd love to package a combination of Vassell + Keldon + picks for shooting and a good starting level big man next to Wemby. You play this out next couple of years.

Only way I trade for Giannis is if the Spurs think Victor's health means we gotta win in the next 4-5 years to make use of him. We'll never have much insight on that, but obv we hope that's not the case. Having Giannis and Fox on a max with Victor's new contract coming in the next couple years would be rough as far as filling out the roster goes. We still have so much dead weight on this team that needs to change.

[Dejounte]

I honestly don't really care about the three guard lineup for now. Shooting is a problem for sure, but surely we can make Fox Castle Harper work with plenty of minutes for all, even in the floor at the same time. Castle and Harper have great size for their positions and can likely guard bigger players. Fox and Harper will both be ball dominant but you can make this work. The shooting numbers are unfortunate so this would rely on Harper and/or Castle developing an outside shot, but we can dream. I'd love to package a combination of Vassell + Keldon + picks for shooting and a good starting level big man next to Wemby. You play this out next couple of years.

Only way I trade for Giannis is if the Spurs think Victor's health means we gotta win in the next 4-5 years to make use of him. We'll never have much insight on that, but obv we hope that's not the case. Having Giannis and Fox on a max with Victor's new contract coming in the next couple years would be rough as far as filling out the roster goes. We still have so much dead weight on this team that needs to change.


If Harper is the max player we think he is and Castle is the other max player we think he is, wouldn’t that all be a problem with Fox and Wemby already having max contracts by then?

[ffadicted]

If Harper is the max player we think he is and Castle is the other max player we think he is, wouldn’t that all be a problem with Fox and Wemby already having max contracts by then?

Yes I'd imagine if Harper and Castle pan out we'd move on from Fox and trade him, but their expensive contracts are a looong ways away. We could be looking at a very expensive team of Fox Giannis Wemby much sooner. I guess I'm just not convinced about giving up one of Harper or Castle and a ton of our assets we've been stashing for 4-5 years of Giannis. When was the last time an expensive team trading for a championship worked?

I guess the main thing as always is what are we giving up. Obv if Milwakee is stupid and gives us Giannis for an easy package you just eat up the cost of the team and do it, but I have a feeling they'll be looking for a fleece.

[The Truth #6]

1. Spurs need to avoid trading the wrong player, sort of like how OKC was left with Russell Westbrook.

2. To me, Fox is the odd man out given the positional versatility they desire. Trade Fox, not all this other nonsense. Package him with Devin, if possible, and get quality players that fit around our young backcourt and Wemby.

[Uriel]

This would've been so much simpler if we got pick #3. We would just pick Bailey outright :lol

[Dejounte]

It wouldn’t be Spurs-like to trade Fox anytime soon at all, tbh. People have to view it in that context. The pattern is that they overextend everyone’s stay with the team vs the opposite. That has always been their nature.

[Mal]

You dont trade Fox now. He is better player than Harper and Castle, and Spurs need him. If Castle and Harper pans out, then you can start thinking about trading Fox before Castle`s extension kicks in.

[HankChinaski]

After sleeping on it.
You just draft Harper
Hope for Fleming or Carter Bryant still on board at 14.

Still a bunch of things to look at once free agency hits and also trades that could improve things.

I think the spurs experiment with a Fox/Harper/Castle 3 guard lineup.

Either of Fleming or Bryant fills a need in the front court.

Still have time to see how the rest of the league reacts to Giannis, Durant, and possibly Booker being traded and that will provide the spurs room to work with as the league front offices possibly overreact to some of those 3 destinations.

I can't wait for the draft already so we can hit Free Agency and trade talks and, most importantly Summer League

CP3 is, most likely gone.

[Big Empty]

I think the time to win is now. We now have flexibility to trade for Giannis/Jaren Jackson or Sabonis to be contenders now

[poopbox]

The more I have time to marinate on it, the more I think this is it.

Draft Harper. Move Devin, Keldon and maybe Sochan to get capable forwards.

You can't trade Fox now, for a few reasons:


Spurs won't do dirty to a player who forced his way here at a discount. It would damage our ability to get players in the future.
Fox has one year remaining so his value is going to be diminished because Fox may want to test FA after being traded by the team he wanted to be at... which means...
Fox needs to sign an extension first, but when he does there will be a 6 month moratorium on trading him.


So, you sign Fox to an extension, which even at a 30% max hopefully won't look too bad after several years of 10% cap increases. If he plays two years at his current level, he'll still have great trade value right when Harper will be ready to take over as starting PG.

I mean if you are telling me Fox or Castle is going to be gone in 2 or 3 years then no question you take Harper to replace one of them, that is the long term move. But playing Fox, Harper, and Castle together is going to be ugly on offense to start, and you will have to stagger minutes so that Harper is also the primary backup point guard, again not a bad thing.

And in the beginning Harper forces one of the friendship crew out by either directly taking their spot or taking Castle spot and then Castle takes a friendship spot.

I'd rather have Bailey because he is good, he fits a glaring need we have right now, and keeps us from having one in the future, but if you told me we draft Harper and get say John Collins, that would be fine to.

[tbdog]

I would look into Gaford and Pj Washington deal involving Vassell. I like Devin, but I don't like him at the 3.

[The Truth #6]

It wouldn’t be Spurs-like to trade Fox anytime soon at all, tbh. People have to view it in that context. The pattern is that they overextend everyone’s stay with the team vs the opposite. That has always been their nature.

For sure, I get that. I was speaking more brutally what makes sense in a vacuum with what the team aspires towards. The reality is they aren't making any big moves.

[mo7888]

I believe he is top 5 in the last 5 years imo

Wemby
Flagg
Cade
Edwards
Harper

Honorable mention:
Covid Face Mask Chet

That's fair..