Nash: Suns Better, Deeper Than Last Year

[da_suns_fan__]

Nash: Suns Better, Deeper Than Last Year

By Jerry Brown
eastvalleytribune.com,
Oct. 28, 2007

As always, he’s polite about it. But Steve Nash would still rather not talk about it. More than five months later, the pain and frustration is still there, still raw, masked only by the promise of another season and another opportunity to make things right.

But think about it? How can Nash not mentally return to last year’s epic playoff series with San Antonio, replay the plot twists and turns worthy of a Hollywood blockbuster?

How can he not think about his nose that wouldn’t stop bleeding in Game 1? The rogue referee who was holding the whistle in Game 3? Robert Horry’s hip-check that sent him flying into the scorer’s table in Game 4, which started the dominoes toward two back-breaking suspensions in Game 5?

Even if he wanted to forget, every trip down the street in his summer home of New York City turned into a walk down memory lane.

“It’s New York. A thousand people a day, at least, came up and said 'You guys got robbed,’ ” he said. “You don’t know what to say. Do you say 'Thanks?’ I guess they think they’re helping, but you really don’t want to go there.”
He’ll turn 34 in February, but Nash still feels and sounds and looks like a player at the peak of his production. But after watching the Spurs lose only one more game after eliminating Phoenix while rolling to another championship, will Nash and the Suns ever have a better chance to break through themselves?

“I realize we got beat and it’s over and done with. But I’m not sure it’s behind me,” he said. “It’s not really washed out. It stays with you. It was a difficult series in a lot of ways — the difference in the way games are officiated; how rules are interpreted … I really don’t lik e talking about it.”

With the Suns regular-season opener scheduled for Thursday at Seattle, Nash sat down with the Tribune for his annual “State of Steve” preseason interview, talking about the 2007-08 Suns, the changes, the expectations and his busy, evolving life off the court.

Q: You mention the word “karma” a lot. Do you think it has a lot to do with the way things work out in basketball?

A: I don’t look at things that mystically, so no. But the work and effort and the motives that you put into something, I believe you get rewarded for it. I’m not saying we sabotage our own cause, but if we’re going to win it, we have to continue to keep pushing and fighting and learning with a clear, unselfish motive. If we do that, then I do believe that we’ll be rewarded with a championship.

It’s self-fulfilling to say we were cheated out of something. Obviously, we have to be better. Winners say we have to find a way to get better and overcome our deficiencies.

Q: You’ve always kept yourself in great shape. But at 33, do you find yourself having to do something different to reach your optimum? Is that process changing?

A: I still feel great, I feel like I’m moving as well as I ever did. The difference is that every year, it’s a little bit harder to get in game shape for the season. I’m there now, but I can tell it took longer. Now that I’m there, I don’t see a drop-off, so I’ll keep doing what I’ve always done.

Q: Does that mean you take less time off during the summer?

A: Physically, I don’t take much of a break because I just can’t sit still. I like to be active, I like to feel fit. I like to eat well and if I don’t work out I can’t eat well, so that’s a motivator. I generally stay in shape year round.

Q: But you still give basketball a healthy break?

A: Yeah, it’s important for me not to play a lot in the summer. My passion for the game now is more about winning a championship and being a part of a team that achieves the ultimate goal. It’s not the passion to just play the game all day long, which I had when I was younger. I still love the game when I’m out there playing, but when I’m not out there I’m not thinking about when I can play again.

Q: Every year, questions are asked about whether you play too many minutes. At this point in your career, wouldn’t that benefit you and extend your career?

A: Why? Am I ever going to be better than I am right now?

You have to say that in my 30s, I’ve played my best basketball. I’ve improved every season. I feel great, so why not play a ton and get the most out of it? Most guys don’t get a chance to play at this level, so while I can do that I want to make the most of it.

I’ll worry about the other stuff later. I think if I continue to prepare myself physically and mentally for what’s coming, I’ll be OK. There’ll be a day when that’s not enough, but it’s not today. At the end of the last two seasons, I felt strong and I felt I was playing well. I didn’t see the drop-off.

Q: You have approached this training camp differently. Why?

A: Last year, I was in great shape coming into camp and by the end I had a little dip and we got off to that slow (1-5) start to the season. This year, I’m trying to build up more instead of being high early and then coming back down. I know I’m going to have to play a lot of minutes, and that the minutes at the end of the game are the most taxing. As I get older, it’s about finding the right motivation and it’s about pacing. It’s about being able to deliver what your team needs when it needs it.

Q: Grant Hill’s addition has you very excited. Beyond his obvious talents and contributions, how does he affect what this team does and where it wants to go?

A: He makes us a tougher team to defend and much less predictable. When that ball gets swung around, instead of going to a guy who can only shoot it, we have a guy who can shoot, who can drive and finish and who can pass with play-making ability. We’re more balanced and teams will have to adjust to that. He’s hungry to win and he’s going to be another person pushing the team to be at its best.

We could have won it last year and I think we’re a better team with Grant and Brian (Skinner) and Sean (Marks) being used more and who knows who we might pick up before the (trade) deadline. I like our makeup. Some of the younger guys are getting better and more experienced. I think we’re getting deeper. We were right there the last three years and there’s no reason with improvement and experience this team can’t be the champions.

http://www.nba.com/suns/news/tribune_071028.html

Discuss.

[mardigan]

Yea, Sean Marks getting minutes makes them much better than last year

[Walter Craparita]

I was walking through the streets of New York last night and I had at least a thousand people come up to me and tell me I got 2 minutes of my life robbed from me after reading this article.

Unless Stern and the other big $$ guys are completely fed up with the Spurs making the championship, I don't see the Suns beating them. I think they are weaker than last year. I'm excited to see how they do though, in the playoffs.

[da_suns_fan__]

Coro's Suns dish
Some slices of orange that go beyond the daily Suns coverage.
Stern dumps rule
Word is NBA Commissioner David Stern will appear downtown today at the Suns' noon pep rally at the Arizona Center.

Whoa, whoa.

Put away the megaphone and that file of heckling material. It's not true. Well, there is a pep rally with Mike D'Antoni and Amaré Stoudemire. But no commissioner. We are not sure when we will see him again unless there is a Larry O'Brien Trophy to be handed out in June. In that case, it seems like Suns fans would consider him to be a skunk at a wedding, especially after the decision he made last week.

When the majority of his referees were found in violation of a rule prohibiting nearly all forms of gambling, Stern concluded that they should not be punished because the rule was "too absolute" and "too harsh." In Phoenix, that makes Stern hypocritical.

Fans may find it hard to understand that Stern would bend the rule for his officials, a group whose integrity in this gambling department has been gashed by Tim Donaghy, but so steadfastly and dismissively enforce a rule absolutely when Stoudemire and Boris Diaw left the bench when San Antonio's Robert Horry hip-checked Steve Nash into the scorer's table during last season's playoffs.

It is easy for some to see the hypocrisy and for others to call the matters unrelated. But for a commissioner who fines any player not wearing a shirt collar and who said this summer to officials that, "Legal betting will cost you your job," it seemed unprecedented for him to not even go with the "undisclosed fine" to acknowledge a violation.

These officials definitely broke a rule.

Stoudemire and Diaw broke a rule by an interpretation, although you could argue until you turn purple that the players did not head down the sideline "during" an altercation, only because of a foul. And you could also forever question what "the vicinity of the bench" is deemed. Those are lasting questions because the rule remains the same.

There is a common denominator with these rules. Both address mind-sets and nip a behavior's progression.

Most players who leave the bench don't engage in fights but a rule aims to prevent those who do. Most players who frequent a blackjack table or bet on a round of golf are not going to fix a game but a rule eliminates a possibly addictive path.

So the Suns must be steaming, right? It's bygones for the most part, although the feelings of being wronged seep back into the conversation the longer you stay on the topic.

"Two wrongs don't make a right," D'Antoni said of the ruling on referees. "They needed to do that and move past it."

"There should be a change (in the rule) so you can arbitrarily look at it and make it so there's different interpretations, like whether your team even started it. There are different circumstances. If I run out of the house to shoot somebody or if I see my family getting beat up and go out to defend them, one is a little bit different punishment. With one, you throw the key away."

Diaw said, "It's too late."

Stoudemire said, "There's no problem at all with it. . . . That's the last thing on my mind - what happened last year."

Sure, and Horry is as welcome here as any former Suns player.

[Findog]

Yea, Sean Marks getting minutes makes them much better than last year

Don't forget Brian Skinner over Kurt Thomas, either.

Actually, is Grant Hill for 30 mpg 50 games a year better than James Jones for 25 mpg for 75 games a year? Because that's pretty much the only difference between last year and this one, at least as far as the regular season is concerned.

[Armando]

I don't know what to make of the Suns this season. Can they win the West? They have enough to do so and reach the Finals. However I am not as certain as I was last year. Maybe last year was their best chance? Point is no matter what Nash says you never know how they will come back from last season's implosion. Hopefully I am wrong and they are playing in June.

[Xylus]

We also have a couple of promising rookies that have played well in the preseason. Both Alando Tucker and DJ Strawberry deserve minutes over Sean Marks and Marcus Fucking Banks. If I'm D'Antoni, here's my rotation when healthy:

Amare/Skinner
Marion/Diaw
Hill/Tucker
Bell/Barbosa
Nash/Strawberry

Of course, we all know D'Antoni won't go 10 deep. The Suns are legitimately deeper this year, D'Antoni just doesn't know how to operate his bench properly.

[Armando]

We also have a couple of promising rookies that have played well in the preseason. Both Alando Tucker and DJ Strawberry deserve minutes over Sean Marks and Marcus Fucking Banks. If I'm D'Antoni, here's my rotation when healthy:

Amare/Skinner
Marion/Diaw
Hill/Tucker
Bell/Barbosa
Nash/Strawberry

Of course, we all know D'Antoni won't go 10 deep. The Suns are legitimately deeper this year, D'Antoni just doesn't know how to operate his bench properly.

D"Antoni should follow Pop's example and keep his starters minutes under 30 per game. I have seen Nash play too many minutes in games were the outcome is not in doubt. I can understand close games but really should the starters be playing in games were the Suns are ahead by 20 plus points with 5 minutes to go in the 4th.

[Nashfan]

Don't forget Brian Skinner over Kurt Thomas, either.

Actually, is Grant Hill for 30 mpg 50 games a year better than James Jones for 25 mpg for 75 games a year? Because that's pretty much the only difference between last year and this one, at least as far as the regular season is concerned.

Yes, actually Grant Hill is better than James Jones, even if it might be for 50 games. James Jones did nothing for the Suns except miss shot after shot and not play defense like he should have been able to. I'm not sure about Skinner yet since I haven't seen him play. I hated it when we traded Kurt Thomas but we couldn't pay someone sixteen million dollars to sit on the bench since coach wasn't realy going to play him much. I think Kerr may have something to say this year about who he should play (like playing the bench more). At least I can hope that he plays the bench this year! :)

[Xylus]

Kerr has been active in the media talking about how little-used players from last season will see more playing time this season. And it seems like the entire team (GM, coach, players) is high on the two rookies, particularly Strawberry. If that guy doesn't see some regular PT, I might shoot myself.

[Nashfan]

Kerr has been active in the media talking about how little-used players from last season will see more playing time this season. And it seems like the entire team (GM, coach, players) is high on the two rookies, particularly Strawberry. If that guy doesn't see some regular PT, I might shoot myself.

I hope you are right , and I really like Strawberry! But please don't shoot yourself, you are one of the few Suns fans that I actually like reading their opinions on this board. :lol

[td4mvp21]

What Suns fans fail to understand is that just because people say you got robbed and that the Suns should have won, doesn't meant that's how it should have happened. If you're going by that logic, you should shut the fuck up because all Spurs fans + some say that the Spurs should have won, because they were better.


Anyway, I'd like to see the Suns play before I decide for myself if they are better than las tyear. I don't think they are but who knows? We can find out soon.

[td4mvp21]

D"Antoni should follow Pop's example and keep his starters minutes under 30 per game. I have seen Nash play too many minutes in games were the outcome is not in doubt. I can understand close games but really should the starters be playing in games were the Suns are ahead by 20 plus points with 5 minutes to go in the 4th.

Pop keeps their minutes at most to 35 mpg during the regular season. Duncan plays close to that, Parker plays close to that, and that's about it. It's a smart (at times, for me at least, frustrating) strategy that pays off in the playoffs.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

“It’s New York. A thousand people a day, at least, came up and said 'You guys got robbed,’ ” he said. “You don’t know what to say. Do you say 'Thanks?’ I guess they think they’re helping, but you really don’t want to go there.”

yes, the Suns definitely don't whine...

[Spawn]

Suns deeper, don't they say this every damn year?

[da_suns_fan__]

yes, the Suns definitely don't whine...


What a dumbass.

How is Nash whining?

[Obstructed_View]

What a dumbass.

How is Nash whining?
By the fact that it's almost November, and he's still talking about it, perhaps? Read his first two quotes in the article. If I were remotely worried about the Suns as a threat to the Spurs, I'd actually be encouraged that he still cries into his pillow about that series.

[anakha]

:lmao at Xylus, Armando and Nashfan stuffing d_s_f's obvious troll attempt.

[703 Spurz]

What a dumbass.

How is Nash whining?

God damn man do you ever give it a fucking rest? All this time and you're still running your yap? No hobbies?

[spursfan09]

Good to know Spurs are still in the head of Suns players.

[Jeremy]

Hehe, D'antoni says that Grant Hill is better than Joe Johnson. From http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/DanBickley/9617:

"I'm telling you, the guy has been unbelievable," D'Antoni said. "He's better than (former Suns star) Joe Johnson."

[Findog]

Hehe, D'antoni says that Grant Hill is better than Joe Johnson. From http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/DanBickley/9617:

"I'm telling you, the guy has been unbelievable," D'Antoni said. "He's better than (former Suns star) Joe Johnson."

Wow. I guess I can take his declaration that Amare is back to his 2005 ways with a grain of salt as well.

[itzsoweezee]

yeah, that nash isn't a whiny bitch at all.</sarcasm>

spurs fans that think this guy is great need to check themselves.

i love the fact, though, that the spurs series is still on his mind. from the mavs to the suns, the spurs have a mental thing on this dude. he's never going to beat them. hahaha

[itzsoweezee]

We also have a couple of promising rookies that have played well in the preseason. Both Alando Tucker and DJ Strawberry deserve minutes over Sean Marks and Marcus Fucking Banks. If I'm D'Antoni, here's my rotation when healthy:

Amare/Skinner
Marion/Diaw
Hill/Tucker
Bell/Barbosa
Nash/Strawberry

Of course, we all know D'Antoni won't go 10 deep. The Suns are legitimately deeper this year, D'Antoni just doesn't know how to operate his bench properly.


you've got a good starting 5. a good backup point that shrinks against the spurs. and a bunch of scrubs. you got smaller and weaker. the spurs are going to fucking destroy you on the inside. amare will foul out in 20 minutes. how the fuck can you suns fans be optimistic about this?

[OldDirtMcGirt]

you've got a good starting 5. a good backup point that shrinks against the spurs. and a bunch of scrubs. you got smaller and weaker. the spurs are going to fucking destroy you on the inside. amare will foul out in 20 minutes. how the fuck can you suns fans be optimistic about this?

Our backup shooting guard (who apparently you got confused as being the backup point guard, proving you don't watch the Suns) was injured during the San Antonio series, which limited his effectiveness. Diaw is a good player off the bench, and Tucker, Strawberry, and Banks are all sure to get some effective minutes.

[mavs>spurs2]

The suns are too small/weak inside.

They will still be able to play with Dallas and all the other top teams, but San Antonio will continue to be the one major road block for them getting to the finals.

[OldDirtMcGirt]

The suns are too small/weak inside.

They will still be able to play with Dallas and all the other top teams, but San Antonio will continue to be the one major road block for them getting to the finals.

I totally agree. I still think that we could beat San Antonio, but we would definitely be massive underdogs. There's a much better chance of Dallas beating San Antonio and then Phoenix beating Dallas.

[mavs>spurs2]

I totally agree. I still think that we could beat San Antonio, but we would definitely be massive underdogs. There's a much better chance of Dallas beating San Antonio and then Phoenix beating Dallas.

Agreed, and that's not an unlikely scenario at all. I could very easily see that happening.

Here's my break down of the top 3 teams in the west and their odds when going head to head:

Dallas vs SA - 50%, 50%
SA vs Phoenix- 60%, 40%
Phoenix vs Dallas- 60%, 40%

[Horry For 3!]

I don't think they are better than last year. They are probably about the same.

[Obstructed_View]

Our backup shooting guard (who apparently you got confused as being the backup point guard, proving you don't watch the Suns) was injured during the San Antonio series, which limited his effectiveness.
Are you talking about Barbosa? He played 30 minutes a night and started game 5. When was he injured?

ESPN must be confused as well, since they list him as a PG. Everybody knows that he's actually a shooting guard with the obvious exception of Mike D'Antoni, who plays him out of position due to the fact that the Suns didn't have a backup point guard.


Diaw is a good player off the bench...
Okay, that's just funny. :lol

[Xylus]

you've got a good starting 5. a good backup point that shrinks against the spurs. and a bunch of scrubs. you got smaller and weaker. the spurs are going to fucking destroy you on the inside. amare will foul out in 20 minutes. how the fuck can you suns fans be optimistic about this?
That's my regular season starting 5, best used to limit the minutes of the starters over the 82-game grind and keep them fresh for the playoffs.

Against the Spurs, the lineup changes.

[Johnny RIngo]

yeah, that nash isn't a whiny bitch at all.</sarcasm>

spurs fans that think this guy is great need to check themselves.

i love the fact, though, that the spurs series is still on his mind. from the mavs to the suns, the spurs have a mental thing on this dude. he's never going to beat them. hahaha

A Steve Nash team will never beat the Spurs. Hell, Mark Cuban knew this 3 years ago. Ever since they dumped him their defense has improved by leaps and bounds. Not to mention the fact that they actually managed to beat the Spurs and reach the Finals without Nash holding them down on the defensive end.

[vicphoenix]

A Steve Nash team will never beat the Spurs. Hell, Mark Cuban knew this 3 years ago. Ever since they dumped him their defense has improved by leaps and bounds. Not to mention the fact that they actually managed to beat the Spurs and reach the Finals without Nash holding them down on the defensive end.


What's with your personal vendetta against Steve Nash? He wasn't the reason they failed to reach the Finals. While Nash played in Dallas, Shawn Bradley was the Mavs starting center. No team can win with Bradley playing center. The Mavs were also a poor rebounding team which means they lacked size and strength on the frontline. Mark Cuban tried to get everyone to drink the koolaid when Nash left. What happened when Nash played the Mavs in the 2005 playoffs? Jason Terry sure shut Nash down didn't he! In 2006, the Mavs get to the Finals despite some bogus officiating which allowed them to get by the Spurs. Up 2-0 against the Heat, they proceed to give away the next four games in part because they couldn't calm the nerves. Then last season, Baron Davis and the Warriors destroy the Mavs in the biggest playoff upset in NBA history. Your comment about Nash "holding them down" on the defensive end is hilarious. In the last three playoffs, Nash, Wade and Davis all tore apart Jason Terry. While Nash isn't a great defender, he can't be worse than Terry.

[polandprzem]

They got robbed

Where the fuck is police?
They should find the bastards and return what was stolen to Nash and his companiens.
What was stolen?

[RonMexico]

80-2 season... 16-0 playoffs

[Dre_7]

It doesnt matter how much deeper, faster, younger, more athletic they are, they are still WAY too small to beat the Spurs.

[Nashfan]

Are you talking about Barbosa? He played 30 minutes a night and started game 5. When was he injured?

ESPN must be confused as well, since they list him as a PG. Everybody knows that he's actually a shooting guard with the obvious exception of Mike D'Antoni, who plays him out of position due to the fact that the Suns didn't have a backup point guard.


Okay, that's just funny. :lol

To answer your question about when Barbosa got injured, in the Laker series. He just never told anyone but his brother about the injury from what I heard.

[DubMcDub]

Personally I have my doubts that Grant Hill is enough to make up for another year on Nash's body and another knee surgery for Amare.

And the idea that Hill is better than Joe Johnson is absolutely hilarious.

[SpursDynasty]

Here's a bit of advice from Bill Russell to all run and gun teams:

BILL RUSSELL: "Every year in every major competition we always focus on the offensive players and make them the favorites. When they don’t win, we say it’s an upset, but before the game everyone concludes that the best defensive team will win the series. You can change the whole atmosphere of a situation by certain defensive moves, far more than you can change the atmosphere by offensive moves."



The bleeding nose and suspensions are not of central importance, those were just your typical unfortunate circumstances that accompany any professional sport and can happen at any time. The Spurs gave up the race for the #2 seed with the last 3 games: Duncan's ejection led to the loss which led to starters sitting the final 2 garbage games. With those three victories, the Spurs have the same 61-21 record as you, hold homecourt advantage. As, as stated tens of times before, we had a better West record than you and won the season series and were 3-2 in non-suspension games versus you.

No suspensions and no bloody nose doesn't give you the series, it helps your chances, but doesn't automatically put you past the Spurs. Defense usually prevails and would've prevailed anyway.

No go run and gun your way to 60 wins before losing to us again.

[da_suns_fan__]

Are you talking about Barbosa? He played 30 minutes a night and started game 5. When was he injured?

ESPN must be confused as well, since they list him as a PG. Everybody knows that he's actually a shooting guard with the obvious exception of Mike D'Antoni, who plays him out of position due to the fact that the Suns didn't have a backup point guard.


Okay, that's just funny. :lol

Yeah...Im sure Barbosa faked that off-season elbow surgery.

[JMarkJohns]

Personally I have my doubts that Grant Hill is enough to make up for another year on Nash's body and another knee surgery for Amare.

I'd agree with this in part. Also, I believe Amare's recent surgery was on his other knee... Not his microfractured one.



And the idea that Hill is better than Joe Johnson is absolutely hilarious.

I can see how the claim can be made that Hill will be a better fit than the 2004-05 JJ. Obviously right now they are light years apart, but JJ that year was a consistant 15-18 ppg, 4 rpg, 4 apg wing. What Hill lacks in overall defense and three-point range is made up in veteran leadership.

Would I want JJ over Hill? Of course, but if the comparison is the present Hill to the 2004-05 Johnson, then I can see the argument for Hill.

[da_suns_fan__]

I'd agree with this in part. Also, I believe Amare's recent surgery was on his other knee... Not his microfractured one.




I can see how the claim can be made that Hill will be a better fit than the 2004-05 JJ. Obviously right now they are light years apart, but JJ that year was a consistant 15-18 ppg, 4 rpg, 4 apg wing. What Hill lacks in overall defense and three-point range is made up in veteran leadership.

Would I want JJ over Hill? Of course, but if the comparison is the present Hill to the 2004-05 Johnson, then I can see the argument for Hill.

Joe Johnson can do everything Hill does plus knock down the three plus guard three positions. I would gladly trade Diaw and Hawks pick to have Joe Johnson baack.

[LilMissSPURfect]

got robbed? people need to get a clue!

[DubMcDub]

I can see how the claim can be made that Hill will be a better fit than the 2004-05 JJ. Obviously right now they are light years apart, but JJ that year was a consistant 15-18 ppg, 4 rpg, 4 apg wing. What Hill lacks in overall defense and three-point range is made up in veteran leadership.

Would I want JJ over Hill? Of course, but if the comparison is the present Hill to the 2004-05 Johnson, then I can see the argument for Hill.

I don't know man. JJ wasn't an All-star in 04-05 but I'm pretty sure he was a better player than Hill is now. Keep in mind you haven't even seen Hill in a regular season game yet. He's a talented guy but he's old and he's not going to be a consistent big time contributor in over the next 5-6 months. JJ was/is a pretty damn great player.

[dirk4mvp]

80-2 season... 16-0 playoffs


where do the 2 losses come from?

[JMarkJohns]

I don't know man. JJ wasn't an All-star in 04-05 but I'm pretty sure he was a better player than Hill is now. Keep in mind you haven't even seen Hill in a regular season game yet. He's a talented guy but he's old and he's not going to be a consistent big time contributor in over the next 5-6 months. JJ was/is a pretty damn great player.

Like I said, you can make a case... I didn't say it was overwelming, or even that I'd make it, but a case can be made that the potential is there for THIS Grant Hill to be better/do better than THAT 2004-05 Joe Johnson.

I hated losing Johnson, and even though the trade brought a lot of promise, I'd still rather have JJ back. He's the dominant third-scorer that would make the Suns offense killer again. Hill will fill in nicely. I'd imagine nearly to the level of the 04-05 JJ, minus threes and some defense, but with better judgment and savvy...

[OldDirtMcGirt]

Are you talking about Barbosa? He played 30 minutes a night and started game 5. When was he injured?

ESPN must be confused as well, since they list him as a PG. Everybody knows that he's actually a shooting guard with the obvious exception of Mike D'Antoni, who plays him out of position due to the fact that the Suns didn't have a backup point guard.


Okay, that's just funny. :lol

Barbs had surgery immediately following the series, and said that it started acting up on him during the playoffs, and it really threw off his shot. I think it was obvious watching him that something was up.

ESPN is confused. Our best lineup is when we have Steve and LB in the same lineup, with Raja at small forward and Trix at the four. When Steve is off the floor Diaw typically runs the offense, and I'm sure the Barbosa's point guard duties will take even more of a hit this year because Hill is such a good passer. As for Diaw, he's gotten a bunch of problems for sure, but as far as bench guys go we could certainly do alot worse. He's a scrub by no means.

[TDMVPDPOY]

i dont know how you guys are going to beat the spurs when you havnt solve defensive roles...

wtf is going to guard td down low?

seriously if the spurs put this lineup duncan + horry + udoka + bowen + ginoboli or parker at the same time.....small ball is finished.

[Findog]

i dont know how you guys are going to beat the spurs when you havnt solve defensive roles...

wtf is going to guard td down low?

seriously if the spurs put this lineup duncan + horry + udoka + bowen + ginoboli or parker at the same time.....small ball is finished.

Phoenix hype machine is in full overdrive mode. I keep seeing all the experts talking about how this is "their year" and they're "on a mission." Whatever. Losing Kurt Thomas means they'll not only have trouble against the Spurs, but any team with a big man.

If their path to the Finals doesn't involve San Antonio, they'll probably win a title. If they meet the Spurs, they're finished.

[Trainwreck2100]

where do the 2 losses come from?

D'antoni decides to rest his starters to prep for the playoffs

[OldDirtMcGirt]

i dont know how you guys are going to beat the spurs when you havnt solve defensive roles...

wtf is going to guard td down low?

seriously if the spurs put this lineup duncan + horry + udoka + bowen + ginoboli or parker at the same time.....small ball is finished.

I don't know about having Udoka and Horry in the same lineup. I think that against the Suns that Barry would play more so we can't double Tim. As for who's guarding him, I'd imagine that we'll double alot, but it'll probably be a mixture between Shawn and Skinner.

[Jeremy]

The Spurs gave up the race for the #2 seed with the last 3 games: Duncan's ejection led to the loss which led to starters sitting the final 2 garbage games. With those three victories, the Spurs have the same 61-21 record as you, hold homecourt advantage.

The Suns almost won their last two games (against Houston and LA Clippers) even though they didn't need to. They probably would have won one if they had needed to.

[RonMexico]

where do the 2 losses come from?

Bobcats... twice

[Purple & Gold]

Are you guys still crying about the suspensions. No wonder Kobe wants to go to Phoenix he'd fit right in with all the whiners.

[Johnny RIngo]

Phoenix hype machine is in full overdrive mode.

It's been that way for the past 3 years. It's gotten Nash two MVPs and Raja Bell is now noted as an "elite" defender when he's really nothing more than average. Even Kobe, with his offensive load, is a more impressive defender than Bell.

[OldDirtMcGirt]

It's been that way for the past 3 years. It's gotten Nash two MVPs and Raja Bell is now noted as an "elite" defender when he's really nothing more than average. Even Kobe, with his offensive load, is a more impressive defender than Bell.

Raja is a much more consistent defender. Kobe probably has the athletic ability to be a better defender and can be at times, but if you're taking the average, there's no way that Kobe is better.

As for the Suns "hype" I really don't see it that much. The Spurs are favored by most experts to win the championship, and pretty much everybody recognizes the Mavs, Suns, and Spurs as the three best teams in the league. Of course we get media attention, but so do the other three aforementioned teams.

[ShoogarBear]

I didn't read the thread, but somebody tell me: is D'Antoni still coaching them? :smokin

[JMarkJohns]

I didn't read the thread, but somebody tell me: is D'Antoni still coaching them? :smokin

:blowsheadoff emoticon...

[T Park]

As for who's guarding him, I'd imagine that we'll double alot, but it'll probably be a mixture between Shawn and Skinner

I could hear duncan saying "bring it on" through fits of doubled over laughter from here.

The Suns trading away Thmas pretty much killed whatever edge they had on teh Spurs.

I don't see how adding a slower Grant Hill and Brian friggen Skinner

all of a sudden puts them over against the Spurs.

Udoka is a shooting defensive guard

The one thing the Suns did NOT want the Spurs to add.

They can throw Udoka and Bowen at the Suns now.

Udoka stops Hill or Barbosa
Bowen stops Nash or Marion.
Parker stops Barbosa or DJ whoever.


Come on guys...

[T Park]

Another thing about Kurt THomas

he was a pretty damn good offensive player.

Nice jumper, made some nice cuts to the hole to work with Nash.

Brian Skinner!??!!?

:lmao playa puhlease

[Findog]

I could hear duncan saying "bring it on" through fits of doubled over laughter from here.

The Suns trading away Thmas pretty much killed whatever edge they had on teh Spurs.

I don't see how adding a slower Grant Hill and Brian friggen Skinner

all of a sudden puts them over against the Spurs.

Udoka is a shooting defensive guard

The one thing the Suns did NOT want the Spurs to add.

They can throw Udoka and Bowen at the Suns now.

Udoka stops Hill or Barbosa
Bowen stops Nash or Marion.
Parker stops Barbosa or DJ whoever.


Come on guys...

Hey, according to ESPN's basketball "experts," the Suns are "on a mission" and are "deeply motivated" to finally bring it home. This is "their year."

[T Park]

Hey, according to ESPN's basketball "experts," the Suns are "on a mission" and are "deeply motivated" to finally bring it home. This is "their year."


Theres one team that stands between the Spurs winning back to back.

The Mavericks.

The addition of Udoka IMO, made it less scary as a Spurs fan.

The addition of Darius Washington, if he cna keep playing well, eases it more as well, as you have a guard who can "keep" with Devin Harris or Terry a bit better.

The Suns contending with the Spurs is laughable even more.

Without Kurt Thomas, the Spurs Suns series goes about like game 1 went last year with the Spurs, beating the living crap out of em.

The Suns this year are so much less of a challenge its not even funny.

[Hook Dem]

I didn't read the thread, but somebody tell me: is D'Antoni still coaching them? :smokin
The next time he coaches will be his first! :clap

[OldDirtMcGirt]

Another thing about Kurt THomas

he was a pretty damn good offensive player.

Nice jumper, made some nice cuts to the hole to work with Nash.

Brian Skinner!??!!?

:lmao playa puhlease

We will not miss Kurt Thomas's offense in the least.

[Walter Craparita]

Raja is a much more consistent defender. Kobe probably has the athletic ability to be a better defender and can be at times, but if you're taking the average, there's no way that Kobe is better.

As for the Suns "hype" I really don't see it that much. The Spurs are favored by most experts to win the championship, and pretty much everybody recognizes the Mavs, Suns, and Spurs as the three best teams in the league. Of course we get media attention, but so do the other three aforementioned teams.

When you have 70% of "analysts" saying the Suns have EVERYTHING to get a ring this year. That is hype x100000000000.

Media obviously wants you guys to win so much. As if you guys simply deserve a title because of the circus that broke out last year. I'd be pissed too but I just can't see how people can still pick the suns on an unproven method.

[Xylus]

Theres one team that stands between the Spurs winning back to back.

The Mavericks.

The addition of Udoka IMO, made it less scary as a Spurs fan.

The addition of Darius Washington, if he cna keep playing well, eases it more as well, as you have a guard who can "keep" with Devin Harris or Terry a bit better.

The Suns contending with the Spurs is laughable even more.

Without Kurt Thomas, the Spurs Suns series goes about like game 1 went last year with the Spurs, beating the living crap out of em.

The Suns this year are so much less of a challenge its not even funny.
If the Suns fail to get past the Spurs again this year, it won't be because of Udoka or Washington. :rolleyes

[OldDirtMcGirt]

When you have 70% of "analysts" saying the Suns have EVERYTHING to get a ring this year. That is hype x100000000000.

Media obviously wants you guys to win so much. As if you guys simply deserve a title because of the circus that broke out last year. I'd be pissed too but I just can't see how people can still pick the suns on an unproven method.

Is that why a majority of the guys at ESPN picked San Antonio to win the championship? There's a difference between saying that Phoenix has the pieces to win a championship (we do) then saying that they're the favorites.

[Findog]

We will not miss Kurt Thomas's offense in the least.

It's true you don't need him to run Indiana and Minnesota off the floor in February. However, he gave you the luxury of not having to double-team Duncan all the time, and he did what he was supposed to do on offense by consistently hitting that mid-range jumper when the Spurs stayed home on everybody else. I think Kurt Thomas was a big reason why that series was a lot closer than the 05 Conference Finals.

D'Antoni is going to play his usual rotation in the regular season, but when you guys run into the Spurs in the playoffs, at some point he will summon a rusty Skinner from the bench to guard Duncan. Will he not be a drag on the offense like Thomas? I doubt it.

[OldDirtMcGirt]

It's true you don't need him to run Indiana and Minnesota off the floor in February. However, he gave you the luxury of not having to double-team Duncan all the time, and he did what he was supposed to do on offense by consistently hitting that mid-range jumper when the Spurs stayed home on everybody else. I think Kurt Thomas was a big reason why that series was a lot closer than the 05 Conference Finals.

D'Antoni is going to play his usual rotation in the regular season, but when you guys run into the Spurs in the playoffs, at some point he will summon a rusty Skinner from the bench to guard Duncan. Will he not be a drag on the offense like Thomas? I doubt it.

Kurt Thomas's low post D will definitely be missed. But too much was made of his ability to hit the open jumper. Sure it was nice and I'm not trying to say that Skinner is somehow better than he is, but Skinner is a good athlete and thus is going to get his in Phoenix's system.

[vicphoenix]

The Spurs are the favorites to win it all again and nobody doubts that. But the lack of respect some have for the Suns is unbelievable. Apparently, nobody remembers that the Suns were the only team to give the Spurs a tough series in the 2007 playoffs. Every naysayer claims that run and gun doesn't work but there is only one team in the NBA better than the Suns. Losing Kurt Thomas wasn't great but he couldn't guard Tim Duncan anyway. Its up to Amare, Marion and Nash to step up their games to another level.

[Findog]

The Spurs are the favorites to win it all again and nobody doubts that. But the lack of respect some have for the Suns is unbelievable. Apparently, nobody remembers that the Suns were the only team to give the Spurs a tough series in the 2007 playoffs.

Who cares? They didn't win. The Mavs have actually done that.


Every naysayer claims that run and gun doesn't work but there is only one team in the NBA better than the Suns. Losing Kurt Thomas wasn't great but he couldn't guard Tim Duncan anyway. Its up to Amare, Marion and Nash to step up their games to another level.

Good luck with that.

[BeerIsGood!]

D"Antoni should follow Pop's example and keep his starters minutes under 30 per game. I have seen Nash play too many minutes in games were the outcome is not in doubt. I can understand close games but really should the starters be playing in games were the Suns are ahead by 20 plus points with 5 minutes to go in the 4th.

How dare you use my first name in association with the biggest bitches in sports, the Suns. If I could reach through this computer I'd strangle you right now. :smokin

[BeerIsGood!]

The Suns got rid of their defensive front line and picked up an old, broken down guy who won at Duke with Christian fucking Laettner.

As far as the Spurs are concerned, it doesn't matter if the Suns are better this year or not because they match up horribly with the Spurs. They got somewhat close last season to matching up, but they threw it all away. Gotta love D'Antoni's idiocy and stubborness to win with a style that doesn't work.

[LilMissSPURfect]

Default Re: Nash: Suns Better, Deeper Than Last Year :dizzy :dizzy :dizzy :dizzy :dizzy :dizzy :dizzy :dizzy :dizzy :dizzy :dizzy :dizzy :dizzy

[phx_13]

this is a qoute from steve kerrs blog on suns.com about gaurding duncan
[QUOTE]
"The biggest question that I repeatedly received over the past couple of months was, 'Who is going to replace Kurt Thomas?' The answer is a tag team of Brian Skinner and Sean Marks. Brian is big, active and can run at our pace. He's an excellent defender and shot blocker. Marks will surprise some people this year – he can really shoot the ball and may get more of an opportunity to play given our roster makeup. Both will help as the season goes on, depending on matchups and situations."

[Findog]

"The biggest question that I repeatedly received over the past couple of months was, 'Who is going to replace Kurt Thomas?' The answer is a tag team of Brian Skinner and Sean Marks. Brian is big, active and can run at our pace. He's an excellent defender and shot blocker. Marks will surprise some people this year – he can really shoot the ball and may get more of an opportunity to play given our roster makeup. Both will help as the season goes on, depending on matchups and situations."

So, in other words, wishful thinking is gonna guard Duncan.

[monosylab1k]

So, in other words, wishful thinking is gonna guard Duncan.
Is Phoenix religious? It will take an act of God for the Sons to keep Duncan from dropping 40+ every game against them.

[phx_13]

i dunno...kerr played with duncan so maybe he sees something in those two that might work and he has always said that was one thing the suns were missing.

[DannyB]

you've got a good starting 5. a good backup point that shrinks against the spurs. and a bunch of scrubs. you got smaller and weaker. the spurs are going to fucking destroy you on the inside. amare will foul out in 20 minutes. how the fuck can you suns fans be optimistic about this?

I laughed so hard I almost peed my pants when I read your sage analysis/criticism of the Suns roster. That was pretty damned funny. So according to you, after the starting 5 the suns roster is pretty much worthless. Very funny for a Spurs fan to say, since you have exactly 3 good players on your team (Duncan, Ginobilli, Parker). The rest of that Spurs roster is straight poop. Garbabe. Role players. Aging veterans. Mediocre to sub-par talent at best. I mean, c'mon: Bonner, Mihinmi, Horry, Udoka, Barry, Elson, Bowen, Oberto, Vaughn, Washington, Finley? Are you serious? Those guys collectively are not as good as Barbosa and Diaw! None of those guys would break into the Suns starting line-up. Some of those guys wouldn't even crack the rotation on the Celtics! Gimmie a break!

[Cry Havoc]

I laughed so hard I almost peed my pants when I read your sage analysis/criticism of the Suns roster. That was pretty damned funny. So according to you, after the starting 5 the suns roster is pretty much worthless. Very funny for a Spurs fan to say, since you have exactly 3 good players on your team (Duncan, Ginobilli, Parker). The rest of that Spurs roster is straight poop. Garbabe. Role players. Aging veterans. Mediocre to sub-par talent at best. I mean, c'mon: Bonner, Mihinmi, b]Horry[/b], Udoka, Barry, Elson, Bowen, Oberto, Vaughn, Washington, Finley? Are you serious? Those guys collectively are not as good as Barbosa and Diaw! None of those guys would break into the Suns starting line-up. Some of those guys wouldn't even crack the rotation on the Celtics! Gimmie a break!

You see, this is what is so comical about Suns fans. Yeah, you're right. Bowen, Finley, and Horry aren't worth their salts in the playoff. The best shutdown player in the league, a former all-star who can still hit shots at any time, and the one of the biggest clutch players in NBA history.

Phoenix would give their left arm (or more aptly, wing) for a guy like Bowen. Well, maybe not, since he isn't flashy and doesn't score a lot. He also plays defense, which gets you traded if you're in Phoenix. :lol

[TheZackAttack!]

I laughed so hard I almost peed my pants when I read your sage analysis/criticism of the Suns roster. That was pretty damned funny. So according to you, after the starting 5 the suns roster is pretty much worthless. Very funny for a Spurs fan to say, since you have exactly 3 good players on your team (Duncan, Ginobilli, Parker). The rest of that Spurs roster is straight poop. Garbabe. Role players. Aging veterans. Mediocre to sub-par talent at best. I mean, c'mon: Bonner, Mihinmi, Horry, Udoka, Barry, Elson, Bowen, Oberto, Vaughn, Washington, Finley? Are you serious? Those guys collectively are not as good as Barbosa and Diaw! None of those guys would break into the Suns starting line-up. Some of those guys wouldn't even crack the rotation on the Celtics! Gimmie a break!

...and Suns ignorance continues...

[TheZackAttack!]

this is a qoute from steve kerrs blog on suns.com about gaurding duncan
[QUOTE]
"The biggest question that I repeatedly received over the past couple of months was, 'Who is going to replace Kurt Thomas?' The answer is a tag team of Brian Skinner and Sean Marks. Brian is big, active and can run at our pace. He's an excellent defender and shot blocker. Marks will surprise some people this year – he can really shoot the ball and may get more of an opportunity to play given our roster makeup. Both will help as the season goes on, depending on matchups and situations."


So by replacing Kurt Thomas, Skinner and Marks are going to "Gaurd" Tim Duncan. The last thing the Suns want is for Amare to take Tim on the Defensive end.....haha, this is going to be easier than last year. Way to go Kerr. This makes me think Kerr is still on our payroll, lol

[da_suns_fan__]

You see, this is what is so comical about Suns fans. Yeah, you're right. Bowen, Finley, and Horry aren't worth their salts in the playoff. The best shutdown player in the league, a former all-star who can still hit shots at any time, and the one of the biggest clutch players in NBA history.

Phoenix would give their left arm (or more aptly, wing) for a guy like Bowen. Well, maybe not, since he isn't flashy and doesn't score a lot. He also plays defense, which gets you traded if you're in Phoenix. :lol


Bowen definately serves a purpose...he's still probably the best wing defender in the league.

But I wouldn't trade any of our players for Finley or Horry. Finley is pretty washed up and Horry is completely useless other than being a player who can get opposing team members suspended.

But I doubt thats gonna work again.

[mardigan]

So by replacing Kurt Thomas, Skinner and Marks are going to "Gaurd" Tim Duncan. The last thing the Suns want is for Amare to take Tim on the Defensive end.....haha, this is going to be easier than last year. Way to go Kerr. This makes me think Kerr is still on our payroll, lol
You notice in that quote that when mentioning Marks, he immediately started talking about his jumpshot. No mention of how he would actually do anything on defense
Its great that a guy who never played d is in charge of a team that doesnt play d

[TheZackAttack!]

You notice in that quote that when mentioning Marks, he immediately started talking about his jumpshot. No mention of how he would actually do anything on defense
Its great that a guy who never played d is in charge of a team that doesnt play d

I just don't see Kerr's logic. How is this suns team going to stop the Spurs. By outscoring them? That has never worked.

[TheZackAttack!]

Bowen definately serves a purpose...he's still probably the best wing defender in the league.

But I wouldn't trade any of our players for Finley or Horry. Finley is pretty washed up and Horry is completely useless other than being a player who can get opposing team members suspended.

But I doubt thats gonna work again.

No, whats going to work is what has always worked, Best Defense in the league.

[da_suns_fan__]

No, whats going to work is what has always worked, Best Defense in the league.

The Best defense in the league could only get a 2-2 tie with Phoenix (with two of three to go in Phoenix).

And now Horry, Bowen, Barry, Duncan, Ginboili, Finley etc. are a year older.

I think the Suns take it this year.

[LilMissSPURfect]

maybe if we put it in another language "IGNANCE"!!!!!

Horry is completely useless other than being a player who can get opposing team members suspended. :dramaquee

[vicphoenix]

.

Who cares? They didn't win. The Mavs have actually done that.



Good luck with that.


What have the Mavs won? I must have missed their NBA Championship celebration.

[mardigan]

The Best defense in the league could only get a 2-2 tie with Phoenix (with two of three to go in Phoenix).

And now Horry, Bowen, Barry, Duncan, Ginboili, Finley etc. are a year older.

I think the Suns take it this year.
Nash, Hill, Piatkowski, Bell, Marion, and Skinner are a year older this year, I think the Suns are just to past their prime.

And the best offense in the league could only win 2 games? Ouch...

[mardigan]

What have the Mavs won? I must have missed their NBA Championship celebration.
One more Finals appearance than the loser team you root for

[monosylab1k]

What have the Mavs won? I must have missed their NBA Championship celebration.
da_suns_fan and yourcheatinheart must have convinced all their ass pirate buddies to stop 69'ing each other for a few minutes and sign onto ST.

[DubMcDub]

Theres one team that stands between the Spurs winning back to back.

The Mavericks.

The addition of Udoka IMO, made it less scary as a Spurs fan.

The addition of Darius Washington, if he cna keep playing well, eases it more as well, as you have a guard who can "keep" with Devin Harris or Terry a bit better.

Agreed that the Mavs are the only team that can really threaten the Spurs. No other teams have the roster makeup nor the mental edge to beat the Spurs. Yes, I know it's funny to talk about the Mavs' "mental edge", but I do think they are the only team in the entire NBA that really believes they can beat SA in a playoff series except MAYBE Detroit.

Disagreed that Udoka and Darius Washington will have any noticeable effect whatsoever on the matchups. We heard the same stuff about Elson and his supposed ability to guard Dirk last year, and in the final game between the two Dirk dropped 21 points on 50% shooting on him in a game that frankly didn't even matter for the Mavs. If you really think he can keep up with Devin Harris, you are absolutely crazy.

As always, the games between the Mavs-Spurs will be decided by the performance of the Spurs big 3. Fortunately for you guys, those 3 are extremely, extremely good. But the rest of the roster are pretty much scrubs that tend to have zero noticeable impact on the game (at least with the Mavs). I've watched Darius Washington play for a few years at Memphis.

[1Parker1]

I think the Suns have a serious chance at taking on the Spurs or even Mavs this postseason and finally getting past both. Especially if they meet up with the Suns they will have that extra motivation factor that may take them over the top.

My biggest problem with the Suns is their style of play is great for regular season games, but that style doesn't equate well in the playoffs where you face the same team for 7 straight games and they can make adjustments. It's easy to score points, but it's harder to stop the opposing team and play defense. You're not going to have as many blowouts in the playoffs as you will in the regular season. Suns need to learn to make crucial stops in close games and I just don't think they do that well enough.

[DannyB]

You're a total freaking idiot. The Mavs have been to the Finals ONCE since they were founded in 1980. The Suns have been in the Finals twice: 1976 Vs. the Celtics, and 1993 Vs. the Bulls. Jackass.

[DannyB]

One more Finals appearance than the loser team you root for

My last post was for you, because you're probably too stupid to figure it out without directions. :dizzy

[mardigan]

My last post was for you, because you're probably too stupid to figure it out without directions. :dizzy
Sorry cunt rag, I guess I should have said this decade

[phx_13]

It's funny how the only time the mavs beat us in the playoffs was the year amare was out for the season and diaw was our center that wasn't our best post season performance don't forget we almost lost in the first round to the lakers and a lot of people didn't even think we would make it past the clippers

[monosylab1k]

You're a total freaking idiot. The Mavs have been to the Finals ONCE since they were founded in 1980. The Suns have been in the Finals twice: 1976 Vs. the Celtics, and 1993 Vs. the Bulls. Jackass.
:lmao 1993

[JMarkJohns]

Can we get a Suns troll forum where there and only there are known trolls allowed to post? Seriously. I can only do so much. I can only take so much... I'm sick to death of logging onto Spurstalk.com and opening threads only to findout PhxSuns.net/AzSportsFan.com has invaded this site. If I wanted to read the schlock posted at either site, I'd have joined their sites!

I hate this effin shit!

[RonMexico]

Can we get a Suns troll forum where there and there arre known trolls allowed to post? Seriously. I can only do so much. I can only take so much... I'm sick to death of logging onto Spurstalk.com and opening threads only to findout PhxSuns.net/AzSportsFan.com has invaded this site. If I wanted to read the schlock posted at either site, I'd have joined their sites!

I hate this effin shit!

Don't be a hater! Raja is HAWT and Leandro is so cute and sweet. Go SUNS!!

[stretch]

:lol

[da_suns_fan__]

:lmao 1993

2007 Mavs.....

:lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao

[stretch]

lol, suns

[da_suns_fan__]

Can we get a Suns troll forum where there and there arre known trolls allowed to post? Seriously. I can only do so much. I can only take so much... I'm sick to death of logging onto Spurstalk.com and opening threads only to findout PhxSuns.net/AzSportsFan.com has invaded this site. If I wanted to read the schlock posted at either site, I'd have joined their sites!

I hate this effin shit!


Ah yes....JMarksJohn....

The "Good" Suns fan.

The guy who dedicates his signature to showing everyone how FromWayDowntown once said he wished more posters could be like him and how he "humbly" said that he wished more chicks could be like that girl in his pic.

JMark, you remind me of Michael Scott from "The Office".

Don't worry so much about how much people like you. Everyone can see right through you.

[JMarkJohns]

I don't want to stifle their voice. I don't want to take this platform away, but they can, and should, be limited in said platform. They have more than earned any action taken against them. Limit them to a forum where their views can still be made, and if any wishes, they can respond within the limitation of said forum. I mean, they are trashing the place up something fierce. I really don't even enjoy posting on my favorite team any longer because of their shit. It's a chore to navigate through their BS in post and in impact, because half the time I make a post on the original subject it goes ignored in face of their steaming pile of crap. They take away from the spirit of wht this board was for. If they wish to be flamers, then let them flame, but not anywhere they goddamn place...

[RonMexico]

All this Suns hate and they haven’t even played a game yet? Let’s wait until tonight when they have a grind-it-out game against the Sonics, while holding them under 40% shooting and slowing the pace down. Everyone knows D’Antoni is only kidding about trying to run and score more right?

[jman3000]

anytime you have to end a back to back against the suns youre asking for trouble... i wouldnt be surprised if the suns win by 30+.

[phx_13]

All this Suns hate and they haven’t even played a game yet? Let’s wait until tonight when they have a grind-it-out game against the Sonics, while holding them under 40% shooting and slowing the pace down. Everyone knows D’Antoni is only kidding about trying to run and score more right?
thank you some body finally said it all this shit talking and their season hasn't even started yet

[da_suns_fan_]

Ah yes....JMarksJohn....

The "Good" Suns fan.

The guy who dedicates his signature to showing everyone how FromWayDowntown once said he wished more posters could be like him and how he "humbly" said that he wished more chicks could be like that girl in his pic.

JMark, you remind me of Michael Scott from "The Office".

Don't worry so much about how much people like you. Everyone can see right through you.
exactly! that's what I'm talking about! To be a real Suns fan you can't ever look at things objectively! You have to be homers, make excuses about injuries/suspensions when they lose, come up with lame ass drinking games, and when all else fails bring up RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATINGS!

[da_suns_fan__]

exactly! that's what I'm talking about! To be a real Suns fan you can't ever look at things objectively! You have to be homers, make excuses about injuries/suspensions when they lose, come up with lame ass drinking games, and when all else fails bring up RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATINGS!

Kudos for updating your sig so quickly. :toast

But whats the point if youre going to quote me?

[DannyB]

Can we get a Suns troll forum where there and only there are known trolls allowed to post? Seriously. I can only do so much. I can only take so much... I'm sick to death of logging onto Spurstalk.com and opening threads only to findout PhxSuns.net/AzSportsFan.com has invaded this site. If I wanted to read the schlock posted at either site, I'd have joined their sites!

I hate this effin shit!

What's a matter, can't handle outside opinions? You want this place to remain some kind of mutual appreciation society, so you Spurs fans can just sit around wanking to the Spurs and slapping each other on the back? It's people like you who invented the freaking V-chip and support censorship.

[monosylab1k]

What's a matter, can't handle outside opinions? You want this place to remain some kind of mutual appreciation society, so you Spurs fans can just sit around wanking to the Spurs and slapping each other on the back? It's people like you who invented the freaking V-chip and support censorship.
that was a suns fan who wrote that. in case you didn't notice.

[DannyB]

that was a suns fan who wrote that. in case you didn't notice.

No, I didn't notice actually. My bad. But the dude's still a fascist for wanting to control everyone's comments. What, is he the only Suns fan who's allowed to have an opinion on here? Why is his opinion OK on here, but not mine or others?

[DannyB]

exactly! that's what I'm talking about! To be a real Suns fan you can't ever look at things objectively! You have to be homers, make excuses about injuries/suspensions when they lose, come up with lame ass drinking games, and when all else fails bring up RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATINGS!

I've got two questions for you. What excuses have I come up with for the Suns losing to the Spurs last year? I haven't blamed the refs or suspensions or injuries or anything you mentioned, and I sure as hell don't care about the ratings.

Second, you said all of us Suns trolls (except you, of course) have done more than enough to get banned from this site. Like what? What have I done to get me banned? Not being a Spurs fan and daring to criticize them?

[da_suns_fan__]

I've got two questions for you. What excuses have I come up with for the Suns losing to the Spurs last year? I haven't blamed the refs or suspensions or injuries or anything you mentioned, and I sure as hell don't care about the ratings.

Second, you said all of us Suns trolls (except you, of course) have done more than enough to get banned from this site. Like what? What have I done to get me banned? Not being a Spurs fan and daring to criticize them?

1) I hope you realize that you are quoting my imposter (see underscores and post count).

2) I agree with everything you said. If youre not willing to say that no one in the NBA has a chance at winning the title except the Spurs (which includes most Spurs and Mavs fans), then you are part of the shunned minority .

[monosylab1k]

If youre not willing to say that no one in the NBA has a chance at winning the title except the Spurs
I agree, it is stupid to say that only the Spurs have a shot at the title.

The Mavs, Rockets, Celtics, & Pistons all have a shot too.

[da_suns_fan_]

I've got two questions for you. What excuses have I come up with for the Suns losing to the Spurs last year? I haven't blamed the refs or suspensions or injuries or anything you mentioned, and I sure as hell don't care about the ratings.

you're obviously not a real Suns fan then.


Second, you said all of us Suns trolls (except you, of course) have done more than enough to get banned from this site. Like what? What have I done to get me banned? Not being a Spurs fan and daring to criticize them?

What the fuck are you talking about?

[RonMexico]

Suns already won the real title... the Fun title and that's all that matters.

Manu was floptastic last night, though - I was thoroughly impressed with this ability to throw an elbow into Stromile Swift and then flopping to the ground while he had inside position. Made a lot of basketball sense, too... it's much more effective to fall to the ground than attempt a rebound.

[DubMcDub]

Suns already won the real title... the Fun title and that's all that matters.

Manu was floptastic last night, though - I was thoroughly impressed with this ability to throw an elbow into Stromile Swift and then flopping to the ground while he had inside position. Made a lot of basketball sense, too... it's much more effective to fall to the ground than attempt a rebound.

Welcome to Manu Ginobili--the only guy who is simultaneously an awesome and a terrible basketball player.

[JMarkJohns]

No, I didn't notice actually. My bad. But the dude's still a fascist for wanting to control everyone's comments. What, is he the only Suns fan who's allowed to have an opinion on here? Why is his opinion OK on here, but not mine or others?

It's not the opinion, but rather the volume and the context with which it's posted.

Did I say trolls like da_suns_fan__ and yourcheatin' heart can't post? No... Did I ask why they aren't restricted to an area so that every thread doesn't devolve into a non-win pissing match? Yes...

My opinions aren't the main issue. Trolling is. What's worse is it's tolerated and it's very depressing for opposing team's fans who wish to have an intelligent discussion on topic.

Where I've come undone is in the number of trolls that have sprung up, both to institigate, then to mock the instigater. It's not about "outside" opinions. If I were opposed to outside opinions of the Suns would I have over 3,000 posts on an opposing team's site? Obviously I'm just fine with differing views.

This site never used to be a circle jerk of misinformation and homerism. Unfortunately, that's pretty much what every Suns thread has devolved into recently. Maybe you're close to a good point however. Maybe if that's what this is to become, Maybe I shouldn't post? If it's that upsetting to me...

Unfortunately, that's not an option because I enjoy the views and information this site presents. SO, I guess I'll just have to stomach the intolerable, swallow my pride and suffer in silence, all while having valid threads turn into crap, and valid viewpoints passed over for the sake of zinging a troll who's only intent in posting is to evoke such a response from anyone willing to give it.

[BillsCarnage]

All of you have got to be kidding...

[DannyB]

Amen BillsCarnage! How pathetic is it that people on an internet communty blog, created specifically so that people can express their opinions, want to have their say and tell everyone else to STFU. Hypocrites and weaklings.

[O-Factor]

It's not the opinion, but rather the volume and the context with which it's posted.

Did I say trolls like da_suns_fan__ and yourcheatin' heart can't post? No... Did I ask why they aren't restricted to an area so that every thread doesn't devolve into a non-win pissing match? Yes...

My opinions aren't the main issue. Trolling is. What's worse is it's tolerated and it's very depressing for opposing team's fans who wish to have an intelligent discussion on topic.

Where I've come undone is in the number of trolls that have sprung up, both to institigate, then to mock the instigater. It's not about "outside" opinions. If I were opposed to outside opinions of the Suns would I have over 3,000 posts on an opposing team's site? Obviously I'm just fine with differing views.

This site never used to be a circle jerk of misinformation and homerism. Unfortunately, that's pretty much what every Suns thread has devolved into recently. Maybe you're close to a good point however. Maybe if that's what this is to become, Maybe I shouldn't post? If it's that upsetting to me...

Unfortunately, that's not an option because I enjoy the views and information this site presents. SO, I guess I'll just have to stomach the intolerable, swallow my pride and suffer in silence, all while having valid threads turn into crap, and valid viewpoints passed over for the sake of zinging a troll who's only intent in posting is to evoke such a response from anyone willing to give it.

JMarks>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>suns trolls

[Cry Havoc]

It's not the opinion, but rather the volume and the context with which it's posted.

Did I say trolls like da_suns_fan__ and yourcheatin' heart can't post? No... Did I ask why they aren't restricted to an area so that every thread doesn't devolve into a non-win pissing match? Yes...

My opinions aren't the main issue. Trolling is. What's worse is it's tolerated and it's very depressing for opposing team's fans who wish to have an intelligent discussion on topic.

Where I've come undone is in the number of trolls that have sprung up, both to institigate, then to mock the instigater. It's not about "outside" opinions. If I were opposed to outside opinions of the Suns would I have over 3,000 posts on an opposing team's site? Obviously I'm just fine with differing views.

This site never used to be a circle jerk of misinformation and homerism. Unfortunately, that's pretty much what every Suns thread has devolved into recently. Maybe you're close to a good point however. Maybe if that's what this is to become, Maybe I shouldn't post? If it's that upsetting to me...

Unfortunately, that's not an option because I enjoy the views and information this site presents. SO, I guess I'll just have to stomach the intolerable, swallow my pride and suffer in silence, all while having valid threads turn into crap, and valid viewpoints passed over for the sake of zinging a troll who's only intent in posting is to evoke such a response from anyone willing to give it.

And I more than welcome fellow NBA fans who have a different NBA team and want to discuss it openly.

The number of horrific posts in this thread is just sad. The homerism and trolling has got to an extent that it's a chore to wade through all the crap just to find a decent poster who knows what they're talking about.

And yes, I'm aware that there is an ignore feature. However, that doesn't help me when someone else quotes the person on my ignore list. It just becomes tedious, and is one reason why I've been posting less.

Kind of sad, really. It would only take a few bans to fix this problem.

[vicphoenix]

One more Finals appearance than the loser team you root for

Finals appearances don't matter. Championships define success! Why do you feel the need to defend the Mavericks? After all, Mark Cuban has never had anything good to say about San Antonio.

[TheZackAttack!]

Fuck Mark Cuban and fuck the suns trolls

[JMarkJohns]

All of you have got to be kidding...

No Bill... I'm not. It's pathetic. They aren't talking basketball. They are talking shit. On this site, there's a place for that. It's called, "THE TROLL FORUM!"

I've got plenty of idiots on ignore, but I can't discuss one damn thing about the Suns without the thread in which I'm posting turning into a clusterfuck of homerism, personal attacks and smack talk... It's a chore to even read a thread, let alone attempt to contribute.

[mardigan]

Finals appearances don't matter. Championships define success! Why do you feel the need to defend the Mavericks? After all, Mark Cuban has never had anything good to say about San Antonio.
I'll defend a good team who can beat the Spurs in the playoffs

[Johnny RIngo]

I laughed so hard I almost peed my pants when I read your sage analysis/criticism of the Suns roster. That was pretty damned funny. So according to you, after the starting 5 the suns roster is pretty much worthless. Very funny for a Spurs fan to say, since you have exactly 3 good players on your team (Duncan, Ginobilli, Parker). The rest of that Spurs roster is straight poop. Garbabe. Role players. Aging veterans. Mediocre to sub-par talent at best. I mean, c'mon: Bonner, Mihinmi, Horry, Udoka, Barry, Elson, Bowen, Oberto, Vaughn, Washington, Finley? Are you serious? Those guys collectively are not as good as Barbosa and Diaw! None of those guys would break into the Suns starting line-up. Some of those guys wouldn't even crack the rotation on the Celtics! Gimmie a break!

Steve Trash wouldn't even start for the Spurs. While gimmick teams find players like Nash effective, the real contenders(teams that can play offense AND defense) know the guy's a one trick pony. Mark Cuban and the Mavs dumped his ass and they got better. They went from a below-average defensive squad to a top 5 defensive team after getting rid of the Canadian flopper.

There's a reason why Nash has never made the Finals: He's a defensive liability that's only effective in a running system. While Kidd is a versatile player who could easily play in any system in the NBA, Nash is inflexible and would be a liability on many squads.

Nash didn't even deserve either of his two MVPs. They should have gone to either Shaq/Kobe/Lebron. Like I said before, Phoenix hype machine at work.


You're a total freaking idiot. The Mavs have been to the Finals ONCE since they were founded in 1980. The Suns have been in the Finals twice: 1976 Vs. the Celtics, and 1993 Vs. the Bulls. Jackass.

S0ns had no business being in the Finals in '93. The league went a long way in ensuring that Phoenix made the Finals that year. The S0ns went 7-6 at home in the playoffs, and fell down 0-2 in the first round. Doesn't sound like much of a contender to me, especially when you consider how bad Jordan went off on them. He's the GOAT, of course, but 41 ppg? Jordan's five other Finals opponents, at least, kept him under 35 ppg. Just goes to show that Phoenix has never been able to play defense. Now back to the first round BS that would have made the '93 S0ns the biggest chokers in NBA history.

The 8th seeded Lakers got ruined by a bad call in the final 30 secs of Game 5 in Round 1 on their floor. Barkley dunked in a ball after the 24 sec clock expired, cutting LA's lead to 2 pts. The refs just disdained calling it...wiped away an extra possession that Phx would've needed. Worthy and Scott both threw themselves to the floor in disgust after the non-call. Then Majerle hit a shot to send the game to OT. Suns should've gone out in Round 1 that year. The BS doesn't stop there though.

In the Conference Finals they needed 60+ FTs to knock out the Sonics in a seventh game.

To quote Eddie Johnson:

“It’s hard to win when the other team shoots 65 free throws”

[exstatic]

If Duncan is healthy, Phoenix has no chance to go through them. They had better pray that Dallas and SA are on the other side of the draw and Dallas does their dirty work for them.

I was watching the DVD the other week, and against PHO, every time Tim had a baby hook, 3 foot shot off the glass, or a dunk, it was Amare on him. He couldn't guard a 90 YO lady with no arms. Good luck with that.

[vicphoenix]

Steve Trash wouldn't even start for the Spurs. While gimmick teams find players like Nash effective, the real contenders(teams that can play offense AND defense) know the guy's a one trick pony. Mark Cuban and the Mavs dumped his ass and they got better. They went from a below-average defensive squad to a top 5 defensive team after getting rid of the Canadian flopper.

There's a reason why Nash has never made the Finals: He's a defensive liability that's only effective in a running system. While Kidd is a versatile player who could easily play in any system in the NBA, Nash is inflexible and would be a liability on many squads.

Nash didn't even deserve either of his two MVPs. They should have gone to either Shaq/Kobe/Lebron. Like I said before, Phoenix hype machine at work.



S0ns had no business being in the Finals in '93. The league went a long way in ensuring that Phoenix made the Finals that year. The S0ns went 7-6 at home in the playoffs, and fell down 0-2 in the first round. Doesn't sound like much of a contender to me, especially when you consider how bad Jordan went off on them. He's the GOAT, of course, but 41 ppg? Jordan's five other Finals opponents, at least, kept him under 35 ppg. Just goes to show that Phoenix has never been able to play defense. Now back to the first round BS that would have made the '93 S0ns the biggest chokers in NBA history.

The 8th seeded Lakers got ruined by a bad call in the final 30 secs of Game 5 in Round 1 on their floor. Barkley dunked in a ball after the 24 sec clock expired, cutting LA's lead to 2 pts. The refs just disdained calling it...wiped away an extra possession that Phx would've needed. Worthy and Scott both threw themselves to the floor in disgust after the non-call. Then Majerle hit a shot to send the game to OT. Suns should've gone out in Round 1 that year. The BS doesn't stop there though.

In the Conference Finals they needed 60+ FTs to knock out the Sonics in a seventh game.

To quote Eddie Johnson:

“It’s hard to win when the other team shoots 65 free throws”

What did Steve Nash do that makes you hate him so much? It isn't like he crowned himself the MVP. To call Nash a liability just shows how your letting your hatrid blind you. There isn't one team in the NBA that wouldn't want Nash. I find it funny that you think Dallas is so much better defensively without Nash. You forgot to mention that Nash never had Avery Johnson as his coach. Or the fact that Shawn Bradley was the Mavs starting center when Nash was there. You think a team can be good defensively with a stick figure in the middle? But is Dallas really that much better defensively?
In 2005, Nash torches Jason Terry in the Suns/Mavs playoff series
In 2006, Dwyane Wade leads the Heat back from a 2-0 deficit to a title
In 2007, Baron Davis destroys Jason Terry and leads the Warriors to the biggest playoff upset in NBA history
Seems like the replacement for Nash didn't fare so well. Great defensive teams don't let one player beat them. While Nash isn't a great defender, he isn't a liability like you claim. He led the Suns in charges drawn last season and before you say he flops, remember what Ginobili gets away with.

[RonMexico]

What did Steve Nash do that makes you hate him so much? It isn't like he crowned himself the MVP. To call Nash a liability just shows how your letting your hatrid blind you. There isn't one team in the NBA that wouldn't want Nash. I find it funny that you think Dallas is so much better defensively without Nash. You forgot to mention that Nash never had Avery Johnson as his coach. Or the fact that Shawn Bradley was the Mavs starting center when Nash was there. You think a team can be good defensively with a stick figure in the middle? But is Dallas really that much better defensively?
In 2005, Nash torches Jason Terry in the Suns/Mavs playoff series
In 2006, Dwyane Wade leads the Heat back from a 2-0 deficit to a title
In 2007, Baron Davis destroys Jason Terry and leads the Warriors to the biggest playoff upset in NBA history
Seems like the replacement for Nash didn't fare so well. Great defensive teams don't let one player beat them. While Nash isn't a great defender, he isn't a liability like you claim. He led the Suns in charges drawn last season and before you say he flops, remember what Ginobili gets away with.

Ringo has turned into a whiner and your points are pretty spot on. Let's not forget that the new starter at PG (Devin Harris) hangs his defensive hat on excessive flopping.

Wow, RIngo, they beat the Cavs... they must be good.

[stretch]

I don't agree with the hate that Ringo was spouting, but there is no question that Nash is absolutely horrid on defense. If he wasn't so bad, then why did Dallas always have to put Van Exel on Mike Bibby all those years that he would torch us night after night? Or the Suns rotating Bell and Marion on Parker? Jason Terry even gives Nash plenty of tough nights.

[da_suns_fan__]

I don't agree with the hate that Ringo was spouting, but there is no question that Nash is absolutely horrid on defense. If he wasn't so bad, then why did Dallas always have to put Van Exel on Mike Bibby all those years that he would torch us night after night? Or the Suns rotating Bell and Marion on Parker? Jason Terry even gives Nash plenty of tough nights.

Why do the Spurs put Bowen on Nash?

I guess Parker is just as useless a defender, huh?

[mardigan]

Why do the Spurs put Bowen on Nash?

I guess Parker is just as useless a defender, huh?
Same reason he guards Dirk, Lebron, T-Mac, Kobe etc., he guards the other teams best player. And since its pretty easy to shut down Marion and Barbosa, he guards Nash.

[da_suns_fan__]

Same reason he guards Dirk, Lebron, T-Mac, Kobe etc., he guards the other teams best player. And since its pretty easy to shut down Marion and Barbosa, he guards Nash.

You are REALLY slow, huh?

Lets see...Marion guards Dirk, Lebron, T-Mac and Parker. This means that Nash is a crappy defender.

Bowen guards Dirk, Lebron, T-Mac and Nash but this DOESN'T mean that Parker is a poor defender?

Im trying to point out the hypocracy. Once again, you are agreeing with me but are trying to argue with me.

Its because you are an idiot.

[spursfan09]

Defense and Nash do not go together. I always thought the MVP should go to the best all around player as in plays defense too.

[mardigan]

You are REALLY slow, huh?

Lets see...Marion guards Dirk, Lebron, T-Mac and Parker. This means that Nash is a crappy defender.

Bowen guards Dirk, Lebron, T-Mac and Nash but this DOESN'T mean that Parker is a poor defender?

Im trying to point out the hypocracy. Once again, you are agreeing with me but are trying to argue with me.

Its because you are an idiot.
God your a dumb cunt rag.
Anyone that has ever watched basketball can pretty much tell that Nash is a horrible defender. When Bowen guards someone else, the guy parker is on doesnt kill the Spurs. When Marion is on someone else, Nash gets schooled by pretty much anyone he trys to guard. He couldnt even keep Earl fucking Watson in front of him last night. I know your an ultimate homer, but trying to argue that Steve nash is a decent defender on any board will get you laughed at. Parker still guards Nash sometimes, Nash never, ever guards Tony.

[DannyB]

Steve Trash wouldn't even start for the Spurs. While gimmick teams find players like Nash effective, the real contenders(teams that can play offense AND defense) know the guy's a one trick pony. Mark Cuban and the Mavs dumped his ass and they got better. They went from a below-average defensive squad to a top 5 defensive team after getting rid of the Canadian flopper.

There's a reason why Nash has never made the Finals: He's a defensive liability that's only effective in a running system. While Kidd is a versatile player who could easily play in any system in the NBA, Nash is inflexible and would be a liability on many squads.

Nash didn't even deserve either of his two MVPs. They should have gone to either Shaq/Kobe/Lebron. Like I said before, Phoenix hype machine at work.



S0ns had no business being in the Finals in '93. The league went a long way in ensuring that Phoenix made the Finals that year. The S0ns went 7-6 at home in the playoffs, and fell down 0-2 in the first round. Doesn't sound like much of a contender to me, especially when you consider how bad Jordan went off on them. He's the GOAT, of course, but 41 ppg? Jordan's five other Finals opponents, at least, kept him under 35 ppg. Just goes to show that Phoenix has never been able to play defense. Now back to the first round BS that would have made the '93 S0ns the biggest chokers in NBA history.

The 8th seeded Lakers got ruined by a bad call in the final 30 secs of Game 5 in Round 1 on their floor. Barkley dunked in a ball after the 24 sec clock expired, cutting LA's lead to 2 pts. The refs just disdained calling it...wiped away an extra possession that Phx would've needed. Worthy and Scott both threw themselves to the floor in disgust after the non-call. Then Majerle hit a shot to send the game to OT. Suns should've gone out in Round 1 that year. The BS doesn't stop there though.

In the Conference Finals they needed 60+ FTs to knock out the Sonics in a seventh game.

To quote Eddie Johnson:

“It’s hard to win when the other team shoots 65 free throws”

Wow. What an amazing version of history. You're really a crazy dumbass, aren't you? Suns in '93 was a conspiracy or something? Nash is the all-time most incompetent defender? Nash didn't deserve his MVPs?

You're on a roll. Any more totally retarded personal opinions?

[da_suns_fan__]

God your a dumb cunt rag.
Anyone that has ever watched basketball can pretty much tell that Nash is a horrible defender. When Bowen guards someone else, the guy parker is on doesnt kill the Spurs. When Marion is on someone else, Nash gets schooled by pretty much anyone he trys to guard. He couldnt even keep Earl fucking Watson in front of him last night. I know your an ultimate homer, but trying to argue that Steve nash is a decent defender on any board will get you laughed at. Parker still guards Nash sometimes, Nash never, ever guards Tony.

Kudos for vulgarity, but its hard not to laugh at you when, in your first sentence, you use "your" for "you're" while trying to call me dumb.
:lol

btw - Ive seen plenty of instances of Nash guarding Parker.

[mardigan]

Kudos for vulgarity, but its hard not to laugh at you when, in your first sentence, you use "your" for "you're" while trying to call me dumb.
:lol

btw - Ive seen plenty of instances of Nash guarding Parker.
Ooooo, spelling smack, last resort of giant vag.
Btw, Nash is probably the worst defender in the NBA no matter who you saw him guard.

[mardigan]

Whoops, he might be as good as Luke Ridinour, maybe

[stretch]

You are REALLY slow, huh?

Lets see...Marion guards Dirk, Lebron, T-Mac and Parker. This means that Nash is a crappy defender.

Bowen guards Dirk, Lebron, T-Mac and Nash but this DOESN'T mean that Parker is a poor defender?

Im trying to point out the hypocracy. Once again, you are agreeing with me but are trying to argue with me.

Its because you are an idiot.
Ok, but when did I ever mention anything about Parker's defense? All I was talking about was Nash being a poor defender.

BTW - I have always thought and said that Parker was a very poor defender... ask anyone on this forum that has been here for a while.

[stretch]

Nash never, ever guards Tony.
And when he does, Tony's FG% rockets up to about 95%.

[da_suns_fan__]

Ooooo, spelling smack, last resort of giant vag.
Btw, Nash is probably the worst defender in the NBA no matter who you saw him guard.

Your grammar is equally terrible. Are you calling me "spelling spack" as a proper name? Why even bother using commas when you obviously haven't got the slightest clue how to use them? GO BACK TO SCHOOL!

btw - Nash is the WORST? The Spurs went up against the WORST defender in the league and all they could manage was a 2-2 tie after four games? Tony Parker had three bad games with the WORST defender in the league guarding him half the time?

[da_suns_fan__]

Ok, but when did I ever mention anything about Parker's defense? All I was talking about was Nash being a poor defender.

BTW - I have always thought and said that Parker was a very poor defender... ask anyone on this forum that has been here for a while.


Well...at least youre fair. :toast

[stretch]

Kudos for vulgarity, but its hard not to laugh at you when, in your first sentence, you use "your" for "you're" while trying to call me dumb.

ura fukin re tard u stoopid dum mutherfuker. go suk a dik dum fukstik.

[monosylab1k]

Kudos for vulgarity, but its hard not to laugh at you when, in your first sentence, you use "your" for "you're" while trying to call me dumb.
spelling & grammar smack is only funny if you do it to T Park. do that with anyone else and you're just a douchebag who obviously has no defense for your stance so you resort to that crap.

[mardigan]

Your grammar is equally terrible. Are you calling me "spelling spack" as a proper name? Why even bother using commas when you obviously haven't got the slightest clue how to use them? GO BACK TO SCHOOL!

btw - Nash is the WORST? The Spurs went up against the WORST defender in the league and all they could manage was a 2-2 tie after four games? Tony Parker had three bad games with the WORST defender in the league guarding him half the time?
Yes, hes the worst
Marion had to guard parker most of the series because he was so bad
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[stretch]

Your grammar is equally terrible. Are you calling me "spelling spack" as a proper name? Why even bother using commas when you obviously haven't got the slightest clue how to use them. GO BACK TO SCHOOL!
Dude, seriously... thats just pitiful and sad. You know what the fuck he said. Sometimes we all really cannot tell if you are just acting ignorant, like you are here, or if you are seriously just a plain and stupid fuck. You might possibly be the worst poster in the history of this forum. You always mis-read people's posts, you are overly sensitive about anything remotely negative about the Suns, you believe in high ratings over winning which is fucking stupid, you are the most pitiful insulter I've ever seen, you bring nothing to the discussion table except nonsense and poorly informed and researched thoughts, and you yourself have plenty of posts with poor grammar and punctuation as well. Want to see a couple?


You are REALLY slow, huh?

Lets see...Marion guards Dirk, Lebron, T-Mac and Parker. This means that Nash is a crappy defender.

Bowen guards Dirk, Lebron, T-Mac and Nash but this DOESN'T mean that Parker is a poor defender?

Im trying to point out the hypocracy. Once again, you are agreeing with me but are trying to argue with me.

Its because you are an idiot.

Where are the fucking apostrophes???

And "hypocracy" is actually spelled "hyprocrisy", idiot.


or how about defensive efficiency?

Capitalize your "O", motherfucker.


FG%

Are you fucking retarded? That's not even a complete sentence.


And now Horry, Bowen, Barry, Duncan, Ginboili, Finley etc. are a year older.

You don't start sentences with "AND", numbnuts.


He was unbelievable selfish and pouty.

Fucking wrong.

The correct term would be "unbelievably."

Talk about hypocrisy...

[da_suns_fan__]

spelling & grammar smack is only funny if you do it to T Park. do that with anyone else and you're just a douchebag who obviously has no defense for your stance so you resort to that crap.

Its the context in which he fucks up that makes me point it out.

Typos happen, but if youre going to call someone dumb, better make sure your post doesn't look as if it was written by a kid.

[monosylab1k]

Dude, seriously... thats just pitiful and sad. You know what the fuck he said. Sometimes we all really cannot tell if you are just acting ignorant, like you are here, or if you are seriously just a plain and stupid fuck. You might possibly be the worst poster in the history of this forum. You always mis-read people's posts, you are overly sensitive about anything remotely negative about the Suns, you believe in high ratings over winning which is fucking stupid, you are the most pitiful insulter I've ever seen, you bring nothing to the discussion table except nonsense and poorly informed and researched thoughts, and you yourself have plenty of posts with poor grammar and punctuation as well. Want to see a couple?



Where are the fucking apostrophes???

And "hypocracy" is actually spelled "hyprocrisy", idiot.



Capitalize your "O", motherfucker.



Are you fucking retarded? That's not even a complete sentence.



You don't start sentences with "AND", numbnuts.



Fucking wrong.

The correct term would be "unbelievably."

Talk about hypocrisy...

:lmao

lock the thread. game over. da_suns_fan__ got bukkaked with ownage yet again.

[da_suns_fan__]

Dude, seriously... thats just pitiful and sad. You know what the fuck he said. Sometimes we all really cannot tell if you are just acting ignorant, like you are here, or if you are seriously just a plain and stupid fuck. You might possibly be the worst poster in the history of this forum. You always mis-read people's posts, you are overly sensitive about anything remotely negative about the Suns, you believe in high ratings over winning which is fucking stupid, you are the most pitiful insulter I've ever seen, you bring nothing to the discussion table except nonsense and poorly informed and researched thoughts, and you yourself have plenty of posts with poor grammar and punctuation as well. Want to see a couple?



Where are the fucking apostrophes???

And "hypocracy" is actually spelled "hyprocrisy", idiot.



Capitalize your "O", motherfucker.



Are you fucking retarded? That's not even a complete sentence.



You don't start sentences with "AND", numbnuts.



Fucking wrong.

The correct term would be "unbelievably."

Talk about hypocrisy...

Wow...you had to go DEEP through my post history to find any spelling or grammatical errors.

Im a very good poster!

[DannyB]

Wow...you had to go DEEP through my post history to find any spelling or grammatical errors.

Im a very good poster!

Hey man, I hate to say this to a fellow troll. You just got punked. Hard. Let it go this time ... let it go.

[mardigan]

Capitalize your "O", motherfucker.
:lol
Fucking great

[stretch]

Wow...you had to go DEEP through my post history to find any spelling or grammatical errors.

Im a very good poster!
Wrong again, fucklick. Most of those came from today. One was from yesterday, and the Kobe one was from 2 days ago. They all came up on the first two pages of your post history. But I also overlooked quite a few other mistakes you made today alone. Do you really want me to go pull them up?

[da_suns_fan__]

Wrong again, fucklick. Most of those came from today. One was from yesterday, and the Kobe one was from 2 days ago. They all came up on the first two pages of your post history. But I also overlooked quite a few other mistakes you made today alone. Do you really want me to go pull them up?


:lol

I don't give a shit. Im ALWAYS going to point out the irony of someone making a grammatical mistake while calling me a "dumb cunt-rag". Regardless of how many typos I have.

[monosylab1k]

I don't give a shit. Im ALWAYS going to point out the irony of someone making a grammatical mistake while calling me a "dumb cunt-rag". Regardless of how many typos I have.

[DannyB]

:lol

I don't give a shit. Im ALWAYS going to point out the irony of someone making a grammatical mistake while calling me a "dumb cunt-rag". Regardless of how many typos I have.

Ok. Good for you. I guess I can get behind that ... especially if the person you are ridiculing is a Spurs fan. But I think you have lost this round.

[stretch]

:lol

I don't give a shit. Im ALWAYS going to point out the irony of someone making a grammatical mistake while calling me a "dumb cunt-rag". Regardless of how many typos I have.
If you don't give a shit, then what the fuck makes you think that someone who calls you a "dumb cunt-rag" is going to even remotely come close to considering the possibility of giving a shit? Are you that fucking retarded???

BTW - "Regardless of how many typos I have." is a fragmented sentence, and "Im" needs an apostrophe. Yet again, you prove your utter inability to have proper grammar.

[monosylab1k]

But I think you have lost this round.
you think?

[DannyB]

As they say: "People living in glass houses should not throw stones." But really, I've got to say that criticism of spelling and grammar on a blog or chat-room is pretty lame. Nobody is trying to write a doctoral thesis or a resumé here. People are typing quickly and carelessly. Typos and grammatical errors are inevitable and irrelevant.

[stretch]

As they say: "People living in glass houses should not throw stones." But really, I've got to say that criticism of spelling and grammar on a blog or chat-room is pretty lame. Nobody is trying to write a doctoral thesis or a resumé here. People are typing quickly and carelessly. Typos and grammatical errors are inevitable and irrelevant.
I agree. Also, props on having proper grammar and spelling in this post. You are a model citizen.

[monosylab1k]

I don't give a shit. Im ALWAYS going to point out the irony of someone making a grammatical mistake while calling me a "dumb cunt-rag". Regardless of how many typos I have.

[vicphoenix]

Apparently, the Nash haters have figured out that Nash is the worst defender in the NBA. Where are the facts to back this up? One stat which proves he does play some defense is charges taken. Nash led the Suns in charges drawn last season. I am not saying Nash is a great defender, but he unfairly gets labeled as being terrible.

[Findog]

It's funny how the only time the mavs beat us in the playoffs was the year amare was out for the season and diaw was our center that wasn't our best post season performance don't forget we almost lost in the first round to the lakers and a lot of people didn't even think we would make it past the clippers

You might try some punctuation and commas sometime. The above is excruciating to read.

[Findog]

What have the Mavs won? I must have missed their NBA Championship celebration.

You can't read. I said Dallas and Dirk beat San Antonio and made a Finals, something Steve Nash and Phoenix haven't done. The Suns had better hope we do their dirty work for them, otherwise there won't be any parade in the desert anytime soon.

[Findog]

You're a total freaking idiot. The Mavs have been to the Finals ONCE since they were founded in 1980. The Suns have been in the Finals twice: 1976 Vs. the Celtics, and 1993 Vs. the Bulls. Jackass.

Nobody is talking about ancient history. How many players are still active from the 76 and 93 teams? We're talking about contemporary basketball. The Mavs have done something your team hasn't, sent Tim Duncan home and made a Finals.

[Findog]

lol, suns

lol, Grant Hill's ankles.

lol, Steve Nash's defense.

lol, Mike D'Antoni's mustache.

lol, Amare Stoudemire and Boris Diaw's poise.

[Findog]

After all, Mark Cuban has never had anything good to say about San Antonio.

Ever heard of Andy Kaufman?

[Findog]

Lets see...Marion guards Parker. This means that Nash is a crappy defender.


Good point Suns fan. I wonder why Nash doesn't guard the opposing PG in this case.

[Reggie Miller]

Good point Suns fan. I wonder why Nash doesn't guard the opposing PG in this case.


You see Phonenix can afford to have Marion guard Parker, becuase they are one of the tallest teams in the league... Oh wait, that's complete bullshit...

[vicphoenix]

You can't read. I said Dallas and Dirk beat San Antonio and made a Finals, something Steve Nash and Phoenix haven't done. The Suns had better hope we do their dirty work for them, otherwise there won't be any parade in the desert anytime soon.

Oh, congratulations on the Mavs making it to the NBA Finals. If that's any consolation. Steve Nash recently talked about never playing in the NBA Finals:
"I really don't give a crap if I make it to the final, I want to win the whole thing" "That's what I care about.
"If we get to the finals and don't win, it will be even more bitter than before."
http://www.tsn.ca/nba/news_story/?ID=221511&hubname=nba

That's the correct attitude to take. It doesn't matter to Nash if he makes it to the NBA Finals. Holding the Larry O'Brien NBA Championship trophy is his ultimate goal.

[da_suns_fan__]

Oh, congratulations on the Mavs making it to the NBA Finals. If that's any consolation. Steve Nash recently talked about never playing in the NBA Finals:
"I really don't give a crap if I make it to the final, I want to win the whole thing" "That's what I care about.
"If we get to the finals and don't win, it will be even more bitter than before."
http://www.tsn.ca/nba/news_story/?ID=221511&hubname=nba

That's the correct attitude to take. It doesn't matter to Nash if he makes it to the NBA Finals. Holding the Larry O'Brien NBA Championship trophy is his ultimate goal.

:clap

[Findog]

Oh, congratulations on the Mavs making it to the NBA Finals. If that's any consolation. Steve Nash recently talked about never playing in the NBA Finals:
"I really don't give a crap if I make it to the final, I want to win the whole thing" "That's what I care about.
"If we get to the finals and don't win, it will be even more bitter than before."
http://www.tsn.ca/nba/news_story/?ID=221511&hubname=nba

That's the correct attitude to take. It doesn't matter to Nash if he makes it to the NBA Finals. Holding the Larry O'Brien NBA Championship trophy is his ultimate goal.

Yeah, and the Mavs are satisfied with coming in second place. :rolleyes

Dallas' three-year body of work surpasses that of Phoenix, that's all I'm saying. And Dirk has a better playoff resume than Steve Nash, the only other point I wanted to make. Squawk about Miami and Golden State all you want, but he's accomplished more than Steve Nash and Dallas has accomplished more than Phoenix. We'll see what happens this year.

[Findog]

:clap

Wishful thinking forum. Hearing the Suns talk about how they want to a win a title so bad is like hearing Andy Reid's sons talk about how badly they want to get off the smack, or Britney Spears talking about wanting to be a good mother. You can pay lip service to these ideals all you want, but what are you actually doing about them?

[vicphoenix]

Yeah, and the Mavs are satisfied with coming in second place. :rolleyes

Dallas' three-year body of work surpasses that of Phoenix, that's all I'm saying. And Dirk has a better playoff resume than Steve Nash, the only other point I wanted to make. Squawk about Miami and Golden State all you want, but he's accomplished more than Steve Nash and Dallas has accomplished more than Phoenix. We'll see what happens this year.

Who cares if Dallas has accomplished more than Phoenix! Neither team has won an NBA Championship. As far as Nash and Dirk's last three seasons, that's debatable. As great as Dirk is, he sure bombed in the playoffs against Golden State. Nash atleast played well in the postseason in both years that he won the MVP.

[mardigan]

Nash atleast played well in the postseason in both years that he won the MVP.
On one side of the ball
At least Dirk tries to play d

[da_suns_fan__]

Who cares if Dallas has accomplished more than Phoenix! Neither team has won an NBA Championship. As far as Nash and Dirk's last three seasons, that's debatable. As great as Dirk is, he sure bombed in the playoffs against Golden State. Nash atleast played well in the postseason in both years that he won the MVP.

Dirk bombed against Miami too.

[stretch]

Who cares if Dallas has accomplished more than Phoenix! Neither team has won an NBA Championship.

Basically here, you are saying that it doesn't matter where you lose... the fact is, you lost. If you don't win, then you lost, no matter what nice things you accomplished.


As far as Nash and Dirk's last three seasons, that's debatable. As great as Dirk is, he sure bombed in the playoffs against Golden State. Nash atleast played well in the postseason in both years that he won the MVP.
Now here you are saying something completely different. You are saying despite losing, achievements make a difference, and where you lost makes a difference.

Make up your fucking mind.

[vicphoenix]

On one side of the ball
At least Dirk tries to play d

So Nash doesn't try to play defense? Then explain why he led the Suns in charges drawn last season? Dirk is no better than Nash defensively. Although Dirk should be good defensively because he is seven feet tall and has long arms.

[vicphoenix]

Basically here, you are saying that it doesn't matter where you lose... the fact is, you lost. If you don't win, then you lost, no matter what nice things you accomplished.


Now here you are saying something completely different. You are saying despite losing, achievements make a difference, and where you lost makes a difference.

Make up your fucking mind.

All I am saying is that if your team loses, you want to know that your star player showed up.

[stretch]

All I am saying is that if your team loses, you want to know that your star player showed up.
So in other words, you are admitting you contradicted yourself?

[vicphoenix]

So in other words, you are admitting you contradicted yourself?

Nope, there is a difference between team accomplishments and personal accomplishments. Teams like the Spurs, Suns and Mavs expect to win the championship or else the season isn't a success. The responsibility on the star player is to play up to expectations. If the star plays poorly like Dirk did against the Warriors, than questions are asked.

[stretch]

Nope, there is a difference between team accomplishments and personal accomplishments. Teams like the Spurs, Suns and Mavs expect to win the championship or else the season isn't a success. The responsibility on the star player is to play up to expectations. If the star plays poorly like Dirk did against the Warriors, than questions are asked.
:wtf

You make no sense whatsoever in your argument. I'd say that winning MVP 2 straight years, and being hyped up so much year after year, but never getting to the Finals, only getting dominated by the Spurs and Mavs, should call up some questions as well.

Great, just what we need here... another idiot Suns fan that doesn't know what the fuck he is talking about.

[da_suns_fan__]

:wtf

You make no sense whatsoever in your argument. I'd say that winning MVP 2 straight years, and being hyped up so much year after year, but never getting to the Finals, only getting dominated by the Spurs and Mavs, should call up some questions as well.

Great, just what we need here... another idiot Suns fan that doesn't know what the fuck he is talking about.

Nash doesn't have to apologize for anything. He never gives up and inspires other to play better. He's what the MVP award is all about.

Dirk, on the other hand, pouts, finger-points and chokes EVERY YEAR. I couldn't believe that he could top his 2006 playoff performance in terms of meltdowns....but HE DID!

The only question remains...how can he top it this year? In what way could Dirk possibly disgrace himself and the Mavs any further?

[stretch]

Nash doesn't have to apologize for anything. He never gives up and inspires other to play better. He's what the MVP award is all about.

Dirk, on the other hand, pouts, finger-points and chokes EVERY YEAR. I couldn't believe that he could top his 2006 playoff performance in terms of meltdowns....but HE DID!

The only question remains...how can he top it this year? In what way could Dirk possibly disgrace himself and the Mavs any further?
In what way could Nash and the Suns get hyped up by everyone, and find a way to fuck it all up again by going nowhere because they cant defend or rebound the fucking ball?

Suns = 0 Titles.

Mavs = 0 Titles.

Now shut the fuck up.

[Nashfan]

On one side of the ball
At least Dirk tries to play d

:lmao :lmao :lmao

[da_suns_fan__]

In what way could Nash and the Suns get hyped up by everyone, and find a way to fuck it all up again by going nowhere because they cant defend or rebound the fucking ball?

Suns = 0 Titles.

Mavs = 0 Titles.

Now shut the fuck up.

Is that a real question?

In what way can the Suns get over-hyped and find a way to screw it up because they don't rebound or play defense?

Do you just throw out as many words as possible and then add F-Bombs randomly?

The Suns are America's team Stretchy. The Mavs are the laughing stock...slowly becoming "The Buffalo Bills" of the NBA (although you could argue that losing to an eigth seed is even more disgraceful than losing four straight superbowls....at least the Bills lost to great teams who were just better).

[DannyB]

Basically here, you are saying that it doesn't matter where you lose... the fact is, you lost. If you don't win, then you lost, no matter what nice things you accomplished.


Now here you are saying something completely different. You are saying despite losing, achievements make a difference, and where you lost makes a difference.

Make up your fucking mind.

You're just a nitpicky fucking lawyer.

[monosylab1k]

Nash doesn't have to apologize for anything on offense. He never gives up on offense and inspires other to play better on offense. He's what the MVP award is all about on offense.
fixed

[DannyB]

:wtf

You make no sense whatsoever in your argument. I'd say that winning MVP 2 straight years, and being hyped up so much year after year, but never getting to the Finals, only getting dominated by the Spurs and Mavs, should call up some questions as well.

Great, just what we need here... another idiot Suns fan that doesn't know what the fuck he is talking about.

Dominated? Seriously? Let's see, the series went 6 games rather than 4, which would be a dominating sweep. The Suns outscored the Spurs 603-492 in the series. The Spurs only held the Suns under 100 points once (Game 5, without Amaré & Diaw). The Spurs largest margin of victory in the series was 8, while the Suns blew out the Spurs by 20 in Game 2. The Spurs average margin of victory was 5.75 points; whereas the Suns average margin of victory was 13. The Spurs averaged 82 points per game for the series, the Suns averaged 100.5. The Spurs thus allowed 100.5 ppg, while the Suns allowed 82 ppg.

I'm not even going to get into commentary on these numbers, because they speak for themselves. So what I'm really asking is am I missing something, or are you just talking out of your ass?

[monosylab1k]

Is that a real question?

In what way can the Suns get over-hyped and find a way to screw it up because they don't rebound or play defense?

Do you just throw out as many words as possible and then add F-Bombs randomly?

The Suns are America's team Stretchy. The Mavs are the laughing stock...slowly becoming "The Buffalo Bills" of the NBA (although you could argue that losing to an eigth seed is even more disgraceful than losing four straight superbowls....at least the Bills lost to great teams who were just better).
Capitalize your O motherfucker.

[monosylab1k]

seriously, did da_suns_fan & yourcheatinheart round up a whole posse from their favorite Phoenix gay bar and tell them all how fun it is to get owned constantly on SpursTalk? apparently they like getting ass-fucked figuratively too.

[JMarkJohns]

The Suns outscored the Spurs 603-492 in the series.

Are you talking about the series vs. the Spurs last season?

If so, you're statistics are grossly inflated. While true that the Suns outscored the Spurs in the series, it was by a mere three points, 603-600. If you divide 600 by six games, you have an allowed average of 100 points per, not...


while the Suns allowed 82 ppg.

As for...


I'm not even going to get into commentary on these numbers, because they speak for themselves. So what I'm really asking is am I missing something, or are you just talking out of your ass?

I think you can take that last question and ask yourself the same thing...

[DannyB]

You were right, I didn't total it correctly. This is how it broke down:

SUNS SPURS
--------------------------------------------------
Game1: 106 111
Game2: 101 81
Game3: 101 108
Game4: 104 98
Game5: 85 88
Game6: 106 114
-----------------------------------------
TOTALS: 603 600

Which changes Spurs average to 100 ppg exactly, while the Suns averaged 100.5. Still, however, it doesn't really affect my argument since my point was that last year was hardly "domination" in any meaningful sense. I think Spurs fans just want to fondly remember it that way, but I remember that even Popovich said they didn't ever want to see the Suns again after Game 6. Hardly the kind of thing he'd say if he thought the Suns were pushovers, or that the Spurs had dominated.

[monosylab1k]

You were right, I didn't total it correctly.
:lmao well simple addition is a bitch.

[JMarkJohns]

No. I'd agree that it wasn't a domination. Any Spurs fan saying such is grossly overstating as much as those stats you mentioned. It was a very, very tight series. Horry doesn't wallup Nash, or Amare and Diaw show some self-restraint and who knows. Problem is that average PPG or whatever other stat is meaningless. The only average that matters in a seven-game series is the average number of wins. In the last two Spurs/Suns series, unfortunately for Suns fans the number is 4-to-1.5...

Here's the problem with taking issue to Spurs fans rhetoric. Most times they exaggerate to pound home a point made in response to some moronic claim made by a troll. I'm not saying it was in response to something you've said. I didn't read the last three pages in this thread. However, it's an offensive defense that's employed when their Titles are attacked, something that happens daily thanks to the BS of da_suns_fan__ and yourcheatinheart. So, you can either help the problem or continue it. If you're smart enough to identify Spurs fan hyperbole, and smart enough to know that statistics could help you back up a claim contrary, then perhaps, and I pray, that you're smart enough to know that hitching your wagons to Suns trolls isn't the best way to be taken seriously, if that's even your intentions at all.

I don't know, but what I hate as much as the Suns losing to the Spurs is seeing trolls make the team I bleed for a laughing stock on these boards. There have been a number of very good Suns fans on this forum over the years, a good half dozen no longer even post, maybe even because of the BS from Suns trolls.

[stretch]

Is that a real question?

In what way can the Suns get over-hyped and find a way to screw it up because they don't rebound or play defense?

Do you just throw out as many words as possible and then add F-Bombs randomly?

The Suns are America's team Stretchy. The Mavs are the laughing stock...slowly becoming "The Buffalo Bills" of the NBA (although you could argue that losing to an eigth seed is even more disgraceful than losing four straight superbowls....at least the Bills lost to great teams who were just better).
Who ever said that the Suns are America's team?

You???

:lmao

Oh wait... you were serious...

:lmao

[dirk4mvp]

Wow, the suns really are a great defensive team like most suns fans here say. Giving up 44 to the Lakers with 8:30 left in the 2nd is DYNO-MITE !

[jman3000]

:lmao

this is some class A ownage. very high quality.

JMJ stuffed it up his ass pretty good.

[JMarkJohns]

JMJ stuffed it up his ass pretty good.

It's never easy calling a fellow fan out. Hopefully DannyB tones down the trolling and comes back towards fandom, and far away from fanaticism like da_suns_fan__... This board needs good Suns fans who can post objectively, critique and hold their own. It doesn't need more homers who troll just to troll.

[SpursIndonesia]

No. I'd agree that it wasn't a domination. Any Spurs fan saying such is grossly overstating as much as those stats you mentioned. It was a very, very tight series. Horry doesn't wallup Nash, or Amare and Diaw show some self-restraint and who knows. Problem is that average PPG or whatever other stat is meaningless. The only average that matters in a seven-game series is the average number of wins. In the last two Spurs/Suns series, unfortunately for Suns fans the number is 4-to-1.5...

Here's the problem with taking issue to Spurs fans rhetoric. Most times they exaggerate to pound home a point made in response to some moronic claim made by a troll. I'm not saying it was in response to something you've said. I didn't read the last three pages in this thread. However, it's an offensive defense that's employed when their Titles are attacked, something that happens daily thanks to the BS of da_suns_fan__ and yourcheatinheart. So, you can either help the problem or continue it. If you're smart enough to identify Spurs fan hyperbole, and smart enough to know that statistics could help you back up a claim contrary, then perhaps, and I pray, that you're smart enough to know that hitching your wagons to Suns trolls isn't the best way to be taken seriously, if that's even your intentions at all.

I don't know, but what I hate as much as the Suns losing to the Spurs is seeing trolls make the team I bleed for a laughing stock on these boards. There have been a number of very good Suns fans on this forum over the years, a good half dozen no longer even post, maybe even because of the BS from Suns trolls.

If this forum has reputation system, this is a +1 for U. Appreciated the effort & gesture. :)

[T Park]

JmarkJohns is very underrated.

I wish he had less of a life and posted here more often :lol

[SpursFanFirst]

JmarkJohns is very underrated.

I wish he had less of a life and posted here more often :lol

:tu I agree

[vicphoenix]

:wtf

You make no sense whatsoever in your argument. I'd say that winning MVP 2 straight years, and being hyped up so much year after year, but never getting to the Finals, only getting dominated by the Spurs and Mavs, should call up some questions as well.

Great, just what we need here... another idiot Suns fan that doesn't know what the fuck he is talking about.

Actually, your the one not making any sense. When Nash won the two MVP awards, he backed it up with strong play in the postseason. Dirk failed miserably in the postseason after being awarded the MVP. Also, I want to know how the Mavs have dominated Nash. Does your selective memory push aside the 2005 postseason when Nash destroyed the Mavs? The only team that can contain Nash is the Spurs.

[Johnny RIngo]

What did Steve Nash do that makes you hate him so much?

He's an overhyped player that doesn't deserve his accolades. His numbers are inflated thanks to the running system D'Antoni employs. He's really just a watered down version of John Stockton, minus the defense. Isiah Thomas, Payton, Stockton, and Kidd are all better than Nash, yet none of them have a MVP trophy to call their own. Ridiculous, considering the fact that those four led their respective teams to the Finals(something Nash won't ever do).


It isn't like he crowned himself the MVP.

You're right. It was the Phoenix media that crowned him MVP.


To call Nash a liability just shows how your letting your hatrid blind you. There isn't one team in the NBA that wouldn't want Nash. I find it funny that you think Dallas is so much better defensively without Nash. You forgot to mention that Nash never had Avery Johnson as his coach. Or the fact that Shawn Bradley was the Mavs starting center when Nash was there. You think a team can be good defensively with a stick figure in the middle? But is Dallas really that much better defensively?

Yes. Dallas were the 26th best (or the 4th worst) defensive team in Nash's final season with them. The year after they had the 9th best defense.


In 2005, Nash torches Jason Terry in the Suns/Mavs playoff series
In 2006, Dwyane Wade leads the Heat back from a 2-0 deficit to a title
In 2007, Baron Davis destroys Jason Terry and leads the Warriors to the biggest playoff upset in NBA history
Seems like the replacement for Nash didn't fare so well. Great defensive teams don't let one player beat them.

You're right. Unfortunately, for you, it wasn't one player that beat them. The '05 S0ns had 3 players that hurt the Mavs. The '06 Heat had a very good Shaq and Wade combo at work(very similiar to the effective Shaq-Kobe duo). 2007 was a combination of a terrible match-up with Avery's poor coaching at work.

It's very rare for any team to win a championship without, at least, two legit all-stars on the squad.


While Nash isn't a great defender, he isn't a liability like you claim. He led the Suns in charges drawn last season and before you say he flops, remember what Ginobili gets away with.

I've already adressed this point. All Nash can do is flop. His defense is so attrocious that he's limited to exaggerating contact to win back possession of the ball. Manu and Devin flop too, but they also play good defense

Nash's defensive composite score is 2.9. Compare that to 60.4 for Ginobili and 54.0 for Devin Harris.


Ringo has turned into a whiner and your points are pretty spot on.

Sorry, but whining is exclusive to Phoenix S0ns fans. I'm only bringing some much needed truth.


Let's not forget that the new starter at PG (Devin Harris) hangs his defensive hat on excessive flopping..

Harris is a better defender than Nash, regardless if he flops or not.


Wow, RIngo, they beat the Cavs... they must be good.

Dallas made the Finals. S0ns get squashed every year by superior teams. What has Phoenix done in the post-season aside from beating an injury plagued Lakers and a mediocre Clippers team. Looks like they can't even beat the Lakers anymore, based on last night's game.


Why do the Spurs put Bowen on Nash?

I guess Parker is just as useless a defender, huh?

That clip of Bowen knocking down a three in front of Amare says it all. Nash didn't even make an attempt to run over and defend the shot. He just waited for it to go in.

Parker may not be a good defender but at least he hustles on both ends of the court. The reason why the Spurs were able to dispatch the Nuggets so quickly was Parker's surprisingly efffective D while Bowen was switching defensive assignments from AI to Carmelo.


Wow. What an amazing version of history. You're really a crazy dumbass, aren't you? Suns in '93 was a conspiracy or something?

This is hilarious, coming from a fanbase that thinks the Spurs '07 championship is a conspiracy. You can dish it out but you can't take it, eh?


Nash is the all-time most incompetent defender?

When you consider all the modern MVP winners, Nash is easily the worst of the bunch. And I'm not even talking about defense. Defensively, he's far below all the others.


Nash didn't deserve his MVPs?

He didn't. Nash doesn't deserve to have more MVPs than a 4-time champ like Shaq or the same amount of MVPs as a 4-time champ like Duncan.


You're on a roll. Any more totally retarded personal opinions?

Translation: Johnny's facts scare me so I'll just insult him some more.


Dominated? Seriously?

15-6 vs Nash and the S0ns sounds like domination to me.


I think Spurs fans just want to fondly remember it that way, but I remember that even Popovich said they didn't ever want to see the Suns again after Game 6. Hardly the kind of thing he'd say if he thought the Suns were pushovers, or that the Spurs had dominated.

Duncan thought the Nuggets were tougher than the S0ns.

[JMarkJohns]

Duncan thought the Nuggets were tougher than the S0ns.

Physically tougher, yes, but I don't think his quote applies to the series. Denver is the more physical team down low, something that bothered Duncan personally, thus the quote. However, I can't imagine Duncan saying the Suns series wasn't as tough as the Nuggets, when the Nuggets were dispatched in five faily simple games, while the Spurs had their hands full of the Suns in every single game played, save for maybe the last. One shot here, another there and it's a radically different series. Could have easily been a hard-fought five-game win for the Spurs as it could have been a 4-2 win for the Suns (games 1, 3 and 5 were VERY close).

Credit the Spurs for keeping their heads on straight and doing what was necessary to pull out each tough victory, but in no way was the Denver series a harder/tougher series win than was the Suns.

[Findog]

Nope, there is a difference between team accomplishments and personal accomplishments. Teams like the Spurs, Suns and Mavs expect to win the championship or else the season isn't a success. The responsibility on the star player is to play up to expectations. If the star plays poorly like Dirk did against the Warriors, than questions are asked.

So it's not Nash's fault at all that he sucked in Game Six of the 06 Conference Finals? He played like shit in an elimination game and his team lost. That's the narrative I don't understand. Nash has had great playoff performances, he's sucked at other teams, you can say the same for Dirk, and yet Dirk has taken his team further. And one player is the epitome of "clutch" and the other is the epitome of "choke." Incomplete assessment for both players. I'd rather have Dirk.

[JMarkJohns]

Until you've won a Title, I don't think you can ever enter a season EXPECTING to win one. It's failed the Suns several times since their Finals appearance in 92-93. The two years following vs. the Rockets, last year and probably this year.

I mean, having never done it, how can they even know what to expect, therefore how can they expect to know how to/how they will react.

[vicphoenix]

So it's not Nash's fault at all that he sucked in Game Six of the 06 Conference Finals? He played like shit in an elimination game and his team lost. That's the narrative I don't understand. Nash has had great playoff performances, he's sucked at other teams, you can say the same for Dirk, and yet Dirk has taken his team further. And one player is the epitome of "clutch" and the other is the epitome of "choke." Incomplete assessment for both players. I'd rather have Dirk.

Nash was no where near as bad as Dirk in their respective elimination games. Besides, look at who they were playing. Dirk should have beat down the Warriors considering their lack of defense. Nash had to go up against the Spurs who are the best defensive team in the NBA.

[FromWayDowntown]

I'm still unsure about the claim that this Suns' team is deeper. Having watched virtually all of the game at Seattle and the second half of the game against LA, I don't see that there is any appreciable improvement in the Suns' depth. To the contrary, it seems pretty clear that if Amare gets into foul trouble, as he is wont to do, the Suns are going to get prison raped in the paint by teams that have any sort of inside presence (SA, Dallas (to an extent), Houston, LAL, Utah, Denver to name a few). It also appears that in that circumstance, they're going to have an extremely difficult time rebounding the ball and stopping possessions. If they aren't hitting shots on the other end of the floor -- as they weren't against LAL (better in Seattle) -- I don't know how they can expect to stay in games for very long under those circumstances.

I realize it's very early and that things tend to take shape over time for the Suns, but I don't think they've ever been this thin up front. I just don't see that this is a deep team -- it's a team with a bunch of wings, but that doesn't make it deep, in NBA terms.

[JMarkJohns]

I'd like to think that a bad start forces Sarver to use that trade exception they received from Seattle to acquire a big man. Unfortunately, I think it'll be his excuse to blow the whole thing up, which, if they had drafted players like Deng, Williams, Millsap and Splitter when they had their chance, may not be a bad idea, but with very little young talent, and even fewer picks in the next three years, it could be a long time before Phoenix is good again. Sarver walked into a prime position and has scrimped/misspent his way into almost entirely blowing it.

[Warlord23]

The suns might be deeper in terms of ballhandlers and shooters (the latter is debatable), but they definitely look thinner on defense, specially at the C/PF positions.

And it's not like they have played a dominant big yet. Wilcox, Collison, Bynum, Kwame Brown, Turiaf: that's what they have been up against so far, and they have had serious trouble in defending them and keeping them off the glass.

Stoudemire is still a foul machine. Skinner is average on both sides of the ball. Grant Hill is a worse defender than James Jones was. Marion doesn't seem to be hustling on defense yet. Can't wait to see them go up against Duncan, Yao, Garnett, etc.

[SpursIndonesia]

I think Phoenix mishap had come when they chose the wrong player in 2005. They decided to keep Marion & let Joe Johnson go. IMHO, if they instead decided to trade Marion and keep Johnson, they would be forced to form a more traditional type of team, with Nash, Johnson, Diaw, Stoudemire, any serviceable defensive big. It might not be the media darling of regular season & king of NBA scoring chart, but in the playoff, i'm gonna like their chance for championship. Ofcourse, that would also require the Suns to replace their playoff incompetent coach, but that's just me.

EDIT: Ooops, Diaw come from the exact trade with the Hawks, Okay i got it wrong there. But if Marion was traded, that should be able to get you a good player or two.

[stretch]

Actually, your the one not making any sense. When Nash won the two MVP awards, he backed it up with strong play in the postseason. Dirk failed miserably in the postseason after being awarded the MVP. Also, I want to know how the Mavs have dominated Nash. Does your selective memory push aside the 2005 postseason when Nash destroyed the Mavs? The only team that can contain Nash is the Spurs.
Mavs - 0 Titles.

Suns - 0 Titles.

It still hasn't changed. It doesn't matter how far you go, or don't go... the fact is, if you didn't win, you fucking lost. Accolades, stats, and honors mean nothing without the win.

[stretch]

Nash was no where near as bad as Dirk in their respective elimination games. Besides, look at who they were playing. Dirk should have beat down the Warriors considering their lack of defense. Nash had to go up against the Spurs who are the best defensive team in the NBA.
Dirk was also being doubled or even tripled just about every time he touched the ball. The majority of the rest of his team was choking all series, thus no one bothered playing any defense on them, and just focused on Dirk. It's a little too much to ask of just about anyone to have to constantly beat double and triple teams every possesion. That is when your teammates have to hit their open shots, and Dirk's teammates did not in that series. I can't count how many times Dirk was doubled, then kicked it out to Jason Terry for a wide open jumper, and had to watch him miss. If Jason Terry simply had hit his open jumpers, more than likely, it would have been Dallas winning in 6, as it would have helped open up the offense and spread GS's defense vastly. But the fact is, he didn't, and the Mavericks lost the series.

The bigger fact is...

Suns - 0.

Mavs - 0.

[DannyB]

So many helpful opinions about what the Suns should do to win a championship, what they should have done in past seasons and drafts, and how they should manage their rotation ... and all of it from a bunch of idiot Spurs fans who think just because their team won last year, they know everything about every player and team in the NBA. Oh, and SpursIndonesia: Suns didn't DECIDE to trade Joe Johnson instead of Marion, Johnson gave them no choice.

[mardigan]

So many helpful opinions about what the Suns should do to win a championship, what they should have done in past seasons and drafts, and how they should manage their rotation ... and all of it from a bunch of idiot Spurs fans who think just because their team won last year, they know everything about every player and team in the NBA. Oh, and SpursIndonesia: Suns didn't DECIDE to trade Joe Johnson instead of Marion, Johnson gave them no choice.
Your probably going to get opinions of Spurs fans on a Spur board stupid fuck, quit crying already.

[samikeyp]

Danny,

What about those opinions from the Suns and Mavs fans in this thread? Or is it just all Spurs fans that are idiots? :)

I know my opinion doesn't count because technically I don't exist, because no one outside San Antonio roots for the Spurs. :p:

[FromWayDowntown]

So many helpful opinions about what the Suns should do to win a championship, what they should have done in past seasons and drafts, and how they should manage their rotation ... and all of it from a bunch of idiot Spurs fans who think just because their team won last year, they know everything about every player and team in the NBA. Oh, and SpursIndonesia: Suns didn't DECIDE to trade Joe Johnson instead of Marion, Johnson gave them no choice.

Do you just bitch about anyone else having an opinion or do you offer reasonable counter-arguments?

Are you suggesting that I lack any ability to evaluate NBA teams simply because I've been a Spurs fan and have followed the NBA for almost 30 years?

I'm very interested in having a discussion with someone who can tell me how, exactly, it is that the Suns are a deeper team in 2007-08 than they were in 2006-07, since part of Nash's statement giving rise to this thread mentioned the Suns' improved depth.

[CubanMustGo]

So many helpful opinions about what the Suns should do to win a championship, what they should have done in past seasons and drafts, and how they should manage their rotation ... and all of it from a bunch of idiot Spurs fans who think just because their team won last year, they know everything about every player and team in the NBA.

1. Won last year, two years earlier, two years before that, and 1999. Get your facts straight.
2. Why exactly are you participating on a discussion on SPURStalk.com ? If you want homervision go to one of your little boards where other team's fans aren't allowed to say shit.

[LakeShow]

Do you just bitch about anyone else having an opinion or do you offer reasonable counter-arguments?

Are you suggesting that I lack any ability to evaluate NBA teams simply because I've been a Spurs fan and have followed the NBA for almost 30 years?

I'm very interested in having a discussion with someone who can tell me how, exactly, it is that the Suns are a deeper team in 2007-08 than they were in 2006-07, since part of Nash's statement giving rise to this thread mentioned the Suns' improved depth.

I would like to hear that too!

[ShoogarBear]

Are DannyB and da_suns_fan in some sort of competition?

Because DannyB is kicking his ass.

[stretch]

Are DannyB and da_suns_fan in some sort of competition?

Because DannyB is kicking his ass.
At what? Knowledge levels? Or utter cluelessness and retardism?

[ShoogarBear]

In this competition, they are one and the same.

[JMarkJohns]

...Hopefully DannyB tones down the trolling and comes back towards fandom, and far away from fanaticism like da_suns_fan__... This board needs good Suns fans who can post objectively, critique and hold their own. It doesn't need more homers who troll just to troll.

Well, I guess I got my answer... You are better than this, Danny. You have a ton of potential, but you need to lose the hostility and the fondness of making inflamatory remarks. Shame, really...


So many helpful opinions about what the Suns should do to win a championship, what they should have done in past seasons and drafts, and how they should manage their rotation ... and all of it from a bunch of idiot Spurs fans who think just because their team won last year, they know everything about every player and team in the NBA. Oh, and SpursIndonesia: Suns didn't DECIDE to trade Joe Johnson instead of Marion, Johnson gave them no choice.

The Suns did decide to trade JJ. Maybe not directly, but indirectly. Here is Sarver, he offers 6 years, 45 million to JJ. All JJ is asking is 6 years 50 million, or market value for the going wing (see Quentin Richardson, Manu Ginobili). Sarver decides he'd rather let JJ test the waters next offseason than give him the going rate. So... when next offseason roles around, Sarver waits to see what the going rate for young wings will be, only to find in horror that players like Larry freakin' Hughes are now getting MAX contracts. Well, in an attempt to save some face, he slinks back to JJ's camp and offers JJ 60 million over six years. Knowing he can easily get 70 million over five, JJ balks at the lowball offer, deciding he'd rather be the building block of a young team, get his millions and be closer to home than be the underpaid, underappreciated third/fourth wheel on the Suns.

By not offering JJ the going rate twice, Sarver belittled JJ to the point where JJ felt he wasn't appreciated, thus demanding the trade.

Sarver bites the bullet and signs JJ for six years, 50 million that first time around and the Suns are as close to an unstoppable offensive machine as there has been in the League the past 25 years. Assuming they trade Richardson for Thomas and sign Bell, the Suns can trot out a lineup of Nash, Bell, Johnson, Marion, Amare with Barbosa and Thomas coming off the bench, and, because of the cheaper rate for JJ, they'd be in better position to use their MLE on vital depth the last few years.

[JMarkJohns]

I'm very interested in having a discussion with someone who can tell me how, exactly, it is that the Suns are a deeper team in 2007-08 than they were in 2006-07, since part of Nash's statement giving rise to this thread mentioned the Suns' improved depth.

I believe that it stems from similar to what you mentioned earlier. That they have more depth with ballhandlers.

OK, so based upon preseason, Nash sees that Banks is making nice strides, that Tucker has potential, and that Hill has fit right in. Despite losing Thomas, Nash sees a more athletic version in Skinner and considers it a wash.

So, he, in what I believe to be a subtle suggestion to D'Antoni, states that this teams depth is better than last season's in an attempt to get D'Antoni to play Banks, Tucker and Skinner more than he played Banks, Jones and Thomas last season.

However, I don't think it was entlrely an attempt at manipulation. based upon preseason, I can see where he thinks...

PG: Nash, Banks
SG: Bell, Barbosa
SF: Hill, Tucker
PF: Marion, Diaw
C: Amare, Skinner

...is better than...

PG: Nash
SG: Bell, Barbosa
SF: Jones
PF: Marion, Diaw
C: Amare, Thomas

Problem is that last season's rotation shouldn't have been just limited to those eight mentioned. Jalen Rose, Jumaine Jones and Banks all should have been utilized more than each was. Rose and Jones especially. Jones is a good enough of a rebounder that he could have played a Tim Thomas-type of PF role for 10 minutes or so a night. Rose was enough of a ballhandler that he should have been used as a backup PG for 15 minutes a night.

Overall I think that while Nash may actually believe this team is deeper than last years, most of it is predicated upon the belief that Hill, Tucker and an improved Banks are better ballhandlers than were an illused Rose, Banks and Jones, but I think much of his statement is based upon an attempt to sway the court of public opinion against a short rotation in an attempt to take some wear and tear off Amare, Hill and himself.

[LakeShow]

I believe that it stems from similar to what you mentioned earlier. That they have more depth with ballhandlers.

OK, so based upon preseason, Nash sees that Banks is making nice strides, that Tucker has potential, and that Hill has fit right in. Despite losing Thomas, Nash sees a more athletic version in Skinner and considers it a wash.

So, he, in what I believe to be a subtle suggestion to D'Antoni, states that this teams depth is better than last season's in an attempt to get D'Antoni to play Banks, Tucker and Skinner more than he played Banks, Jones and Thomas last season.

However, I don't think it was entlrely an attempt at manipulation. based upon preseason, I can see where he thinks...

PG: Nash, Banks
SG: Bell, Barbosa
SF: Hill, Tucker
PF: Marion, Diaw
C: Amare, Skinner

...is better than...

PG: Nash
SG: Bell, Barbosa
SF: Jones
PF: Marion, Diaw
C: Amare, Thomas

Problem is that last season's rotation shouldn't have been just limited to those eight mentioned. Jalen Rose, Jumaine Jones and Banks all should have been utilized more than each was. Rose and Jones especially. Jones is a good enough of a rebounder that he could have played a Tim Thomas-type of PF role for 10 minutes or so a night. Rose was enough of a ballhandler that he should have been used as a backup PG for 15 minutes a night.

Overall I think that while Nash may actually believe this team is deeper than last years, most of it is predicated upon the belief that Hill, Tucker and an improved Banks are better ballhandlers than were an illused Rose, Banks and Jones, but I think much of his statement is based upon an attempt to sway the court of public opinion against a short rotation in an attempt to take some wear and tear off Amare, Hill and himself.

Good post!

[da_suns_fan__]

The Suns just went from six extremely talented guys to seven. Kurt Thomas' contributions have been grossly overstated by everyone on this board and JMJ is just dumb enough to believe what all of you continue to say to each other (maybe he should leave SpursTalk for a while).

You don't have to believe that the Suns are deeper this year. I don't care.

I can just tell you how much better it feels when D'Antoni signals Grant Hill to come in rather than James Jones. Thus far, Brian Skinner has played much better than anyone (including all Suns fans) anticipated. Its just a matter of time before he gets his lineups figured out and then the rest of the league if fucked.

Its gonna be another great year for the Suns.....and this year they're gonna take it all.

[da_suns_fan__]

btw - How is Jalen Rose, Jumaine Jones, Pat Burke etc. doing this year?

[stretch]

btw - How is Jalen Rose, Jumaine Jones, Pat Burke etc. doing this year?
Why don't you look it up?

[da_suns_fan__]

Why don't you look it up?


Has there ever been a player who did better after leaving D'Antoni?

There have been plenty who have fared worse, but surely there's one who has done better.

Especially considering how much you morons keep talking about how D'Antoni wastes his players on his bench.

Which players? Who redeemed themselves?

[stretch]

Has there ever been a player who did better after leaving D'Antoni?

There have been plenty who have fared worse, but surely there's one who has done better.

Especially considering how much you morons keep talking about how D'Antoni wastes his players on his bench.

Which players? Who redeemed themselves?
Leaving D'Antoni? Or leaving Steve Nash?

Joe Johnson. The guy is a fucking beast. Suns are retarded for letting him go. If they kept him, he may have been that one piece to get them to a title.

[DannyB]

Your probably going to get opinions of Spurs fans on a Spur board stupid fuck, quit crying already.

I know I'm going to get opinions thumb-dick. I'm just suprised at how ignorant all of your comments were. Clearly Spurs fans only watch the Suns when they play against the Spurs, or else you people would have a clue.

[monosylab1k]

Leaving D'Antoni? Or leaving Steve Nash?

Joe Johnson. The guy is a fucking beast. Suns are retarded for letting him go. If they kept him, he may have been that one piece to get them to a title.
how many more times will stretch own DSF in this thread alone?

[DannyB]

Leaving D'Antoni? Or leaving Steve Nash?

Joe Johnson. The guy is a fucking beast. Suns are retarded for letting him go. If they kept him, he may have been that one piece to get them to a title.

... and you make my point. Suns didn't have any choice but to let him go. And he was good while he was here, not just after going to ATL.

[stretch]

how many more times will stretch own DSF in this thread alone?
I'm still waiting for him to fix his fucking "O".

[monosylab1k]

... and you make my point. Suns didn't have any choice but to let him go. And he was good while he was here, not just after going to ATL.
he went from a decent role player to a well-rounded leader and a legitimate star after leaving the Suns.

[stretch]

... and you make my point. Suns didn't have any choice but to let him go. And he was good while he was here, not just after going to ATL.
Why did they not have any choice but to let him go?

[monosylab1k]

and this guy regressed horribly BECAUSE of d'antoni - Quentin Richardson. With the Clippers he was a tough defender who could find ways to attack the basket. Once he got to the Suns, D'Antoni transformed him into a lazy slob who camps at the 3 point line. He's never recovered.

[DannyB]

he went from a decent role player to a well-rounded player and a legitimate star after leaving the Suns.

Nope. He was a starter, had a big break-out year with the Suns as the starter the year before he demanded to be traded. He didn't like sharing the spotlight with Nash, Marion, and Amare. Demanded tons of money, then decided he didn't want to stay at all. That is the story. Spurs fans telling a Suns fan about Suns history is pretty stupid.

[monosylab1k]

Nope. He was a starter, had a big break-out year with the Suns as the starter the year before he demanded to be traded. He didn't like sharing the spotlight with Nash, Marion, and Amare. Demanded tons of money, then decided he didn't want to stay at all. That is the story. Spurs fans telling a Suns fan about Suns history is pretty stupid.
Yeah I'm not a Spurs fan. Try fucking reading.

[mardigan]

I know I'm going to get opinions thumb-dick. I'm just suprised at how ignorant all of your comments were. Clearly Spurs fans only watch the Suns when they play against the Spurs, or else you people would have a clue.
I dont need to watch SUns basketball to know your team sucks balls at d, and your coach is almost as whiney as his teams fan base. You have yet to make one decent point about anything yourself, just repeatedly getting owned by other posters. But keep trying cunt rag, your almost there.

[stretch]

Nope. He was a starter, had a big break-out year with the Suns as the starter the year before he demanded to be traded. He didn't like sharing the spotlight with Nash, Marion, and Amare. Demanded tons of money, then decided he didn't want to stay at all. That is the story. Spurs fans telling a Suns fan about Suns history is pretty stupid.
I wouldn't say that was his big breakout year. He had 2 breakout years. His first was in 2003-2004. Then in 2005-2006, the year he left the Suns, everyone realized how great of an all-around talent this guy really is.

Oh, and what's stupid is preferring having high TV ratings over winning championships, and saying that if your team got lower TV ratings, like the Spurs, but also won championships, you would stop being a fan. That's fucking retarded.

Remember this, fuckface?


Jealousy? Screw the Spurs. I'd quit watching basketball if the Suns were like the Spurs, even with the championships. I'm not jealous of anything about the Spurs. If the only way to win the championship is to manhandle opponents with a boring bunch of cheapshot artists and hacks, then I don't want the Suns to win one. Screw the Spurs.

[mardigan]

Nope. He was a starter, had a big break-out year with the Suns as the starter the year before he demanded to be traded. He didn't like sharing the spotlight with Nash, Marion, and Amare. Demanded tons of money, then decided he didn't want to stay at all. That is the story. Spurs fans telling a Suns fan about Suns history is pretty stupid.
Just like Joe Johnson left them no choice right? :lol

[JMarkJohns]

Nope. He was a starter, had a big break-out year with the Suns as the starter the year before he demanded to be traded. He didn't like sharing the spotlight with Nash, Marion, and Amare. Demanded tons of money, then decided he didn't want to stay at all. That is the story. Spurs fans telling a Suns fan about Suns history is pretty stupid.

Your revisionist history appears correct, but is not. He didn't demand tons of money. He demended the going rate for his equals. He asked for just over 8 million per season at the start. Sarver refused to go over 8 million, despite it being the going rate. The next offseason, he gave the Suns ups the chance to right their wrongs and offer market value and Sarver still lowballed him despite a player like Larry Hughes being previously signed for roughly 15 million more than JJ was offered. It was only after these refusals to meet market value that JJ decided his best bet for his future was elsewhere.

The funny thing, it was Sarver who expressed openly that if JJ wanted more money that he had the opportunity to earn it in 2004-05. After he did, Sarver dismissed his previous claims of giving market value to JJ.

JJ was a potential All-Star with Phoenix. He was better than a role player. He was their third most important offensive star, but to diminish what he's become in the absense of Nash, D'Antoni and the Suns because he had flashed glimpses of said potential in Phoenix is silly.

I doubt he'd be better statistically right now with the Suns than he is right now with the Hawks. Therefore, he is better off for having left, despite the offensive prowess of Nash and D'Antoni.

[DannyB]

Yeah I'm not a Spurs fan. Try fucking reading.

Whatever, who cares? I don't sit and read any of that profile crap anyway. Spurs fan, Mavs fan, whatever. And your point?

[monosylab1k]

Whatever, who cares? I don't sit and read any of that profile crap anyway. Spurs fan, Mavs fan, whatever. And your point?
don't call me a fucking Spurs fan that's my point.