Kidd, Armstrong, Malik Allen, for Devin Harris, Stackhouse,Diop, Ager and George

[vander]

Hollinger also said the Spurs would win the ring last year, so hes right every once in a while, if by luck or not who knows.

we were usually first in his power rankings too, even though the mavs had a much better record. maybe those power rankings were on to something, and this year we've been in the 6-8 range I think, I guess no title for us :depressed

[T Park]

1. I don't think that Diop to SA is likely at all.

2. One thing that would bother me is AJ's hot-and-cold view of Diop. I suspect that Pop is a bit more patient with players and a bit less likely to suddenly change lineups, but the fact that Diop has frequently lost minutes while playing for AJ might suggest that we mostly see the best of Diop and frequently miss the worst of Diop and that the worst of Diop isn't particularly pretty.

Agreed good points.

All weve seen is Diop rebounding well and guarding Duncan :lol

[T Park]

we were usually first in his power rankings too, even though the mavs had a much better record. maybe those power rankings were on to something, and this year we've been in the 6-8 range I think, I guess no title for us :depressed


Don't sweat it.

[FromWayDowntown]

Let's also wait to see if this deal is actually consummated before getting too involved in trying to pick up former Mavs.

[Spurs Brazil]

Kidd traded to Dallas in latest blockbuster deal

By Adrian Wojnarowski, Yahoo! Sports
February 13, 2008




Jason Kidd was so determined to make his way back to the Dallas Mavericks, he has contemplated wearing No. 2 on his jersey to honor a return to where his career started in 1994.

Despite Kidd’s doubts that the Nets and Mavericks would ever come to an agreement, two league sources close to the negotiations said an agreement in principle has been reached on Wednesday. After wavering for weeks, Dallas owner Mark Cuban has sacrificed some of his franchise’s future to chase a championship in the short term. The agreement would send five players, including point guard Devin Harris, and first round picks in 2008 and 2010, for the future Hall of Fame guard.

The two teams are still exchanging insurance information and going through the normal procedures with the league office to finalize the deal.

Kidd, who turns 35 next month, goes to Dallas with an unmistakable mandate: Bring a title for a team and career that are desperately seeking it. As part of the trade, the Mavericks would also send Jerry Stackhouse, Devean George, DeSagna Diop, Maurice Ager and $3 million to New Jersey. Along with Kidd, the Nets send reserve forward Malik Allen to the Mavs.

In a separate deal, the Nets are sending guard Antoine Wright to Dallas for a future second-round pick, one source said.

ADVERTISEMENT


For New Jersey, president Rod Thorn brought back the three elements he most wanted for Kidd: a good young player (Harris), expiring contracts (Diop and George) and draft picks. What’s more, the Nets plan to buyout the rest of Stackhouse’s contract. Stackhouse can become an immediate free agent, but must wait 30 days to re-sign with Dallas.

One league source expected Stackhouse to return to the Mavericks.

For the Nets, this clears cap space next season. It will allow them to re-sign forward Nenad Krstic and start rebuilding the franchise after seven straight playoff appearances with Kidd. The Nets are still discussing a Vince Carter-Jermaine O’Neal trade with the Indiana Pacers, but two sources close to those discussions placed odds below 50 percent. According to one source, the Nets have gone so far as talking to O’Neal’s doctors in Indiana about the state of his troubled knee.

Despite Cuban’s public dismissals, the talks between the two teams were restarted on Sunday when the Mavericks lost to the Nets in New Jersey. After watching the Lakers and Suns make moves for Pau Gasol and Shaquille O’Neal, the Mavericks could no longer sit on the sidelines. There was an element of toughness and leadership that had been missing in Dallas, and team officials believe Kidd transforms them. Immediately, this trade solidifies the Mavericks, who are 34-17 and holding the third spot in the Western Conference playoff, as a serious championship contender.

When motivated, Kidd can still play the point-guard position at the highest level. He desperately wanted this trade and Nets officials knew that they could no longer function as a franchise until they honored his wishes.


Adrian Wojnarowski is the NBA columnist for Yahoo! Sports. Send Adrian a question or comment for potential use in a future column or webcast.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=ApBWftL_pTPxvCmhe3yg3iu8vLYF?slug=aw-kiddtraded021308&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

[T Park]

Let's also wait to see if this deal is actually consummated before getting too involved in trying to pick up former Mavs.

It looks pretty official, CBS and alot of other people are saying its done done.

[pad300]

2. One thing that would bother me is AJ's hot-and-cold view of Diop. I suspect that Pop is a bit more patient with players and a bit less likely to suddenly change lineups, but the fact that Diop has frequently lost minutes while playing for AJ might suggest that we mostly see the best of Diop and frequently miss the worst of Diop and that the worst of Diop isn't particularly pretty.

Have you watched what Pop does to people like Elson, Bonner, Barry, Udoka... He'll bench a guy in a heartbeat for looking a someone funny...

[MoSpur]

I have a feeling Ghost is just trying to stir people up and its working. Anyway, I think this deal does give Dallas some much needed mental toughness, but I don't think this helps them get a championship. I may be wrong, but they traded away three players who have been known to give the Spurs a hard time. That would be Diop, Harris, and Stack. Stack can get hot and when he does, he's hard to cool down.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

I keep looking at this trade and I still am flattened by it. If this had gone down in the offseason I could understand it. You clear out some guys who struggled against the Warriors, pick up a couple of tweeners that might help you adjust to small ball teams, and get a floor general who might have been able to right that sinking ship instead of the Mavs looking shell shocked for half the series. But now, with the west stacked with speedy PGs, and dominant big men?

[FromWayDowntown]

It looks pretty official, CBS and alot of other people are saying its done done.

Having come close enough to have people say its a done deal makes it difficult to pull away, but there were reports a few years ago that ARod to the Red Sox was a done deal, too.

I have to say that if the deal is consummated today, it might actually provide an additional benefit to the Spurs, as the Mavericks would be seriously depleted for a home game tonight against Portland (and likely for their game on Thursday against the Suns). A couple of losses during this transition would be helpful in the standings.

[T Park]

They've tied em back up thanks to the win in Toronto and their loss in Philadelphia i believe.

[Ghost Writer]

but the mavs are giving up 31 pts, 12 reb, and 9 asists per game to get him
Please tell me you did not add up the averages of the other players.

And that T Park the ESPN analyst did not endorse that backwoods logic.

[hater]

Spurs will try to sign Stackhouse

[FromWayDowntown]

They've tied em back up thanks to the win in Toronto and their loss in Philadelphia i believe.

I know. But if the Spurs lose tonight, a Dallas loss would be helpful to maintain that tie and if the Spurs win and Dallas drops a couple, the cushion would be nice -- especially to have regained some cushion against them with Parker down.

[hater]

Please tell me you did not add up the averages of the other players.



what's wrong with that?

FYI, at the end of each game, the points or all teamates are added up

[41times]

Hey don't forget about Anotine Wright. The Mavs can def use that guy too.

It's a good trad for the Mavs only if they win it all in the next 3 years. AFter that Kidd will be washed up.

[FromWayDowntown]

Of course, Dallas has been playing without Harris and Stackhouse for a little while now, so it's not a foregone conclusion that they would lose either of their upcoming games.

[vander]

Please tell me you did not add up the averages of the other players.

And that T Park the ESPN analyst did not endorse that backwoods logic.

:oops you got me

foolish little me thought points and rebounds and production in general was important to basketball, please enlighten me as to how all of that pales in comparison to triple doubles and name recognition

[LEONARD]

Stack is still hurt right now...he'll be back after 30 days.

Diop is in AJ's doghouse.

Harris is hurt/fragile.

Ager is nothing.

George is a role player.

Two 1st rounders too? Damn.

Not that bad of a trade if Stack is back in a month...

[T Park]

I know. But if the Spurs lose tonight, a Dallas loss would be helpful to maintain that tie and if the Spurs win and Dallas drops a couple, the cushion would be nice -- especially to have regained some cushion against them with Parker down.

Haha, I think were agreeing Im as usual, not expressing my self clearly and correctly. I apologize.

[T Park]

Stack is still hurt right now...he'll be back after 30 days.

Diop is in AJ's doghouse.

Harris is hurt/fragile.

Ager is nothing.

George is a role player.

Two 1st rounders too? Damn.

Not that bad of a trade if Stack is back in a month...

For matching up against everyone else? Sure.

Against the Spurs? Not so much.

Also, whos gonna guard Shaq, Dampier? Then who?
Bass?

[Ghost Writer]

:oops you got me

foolish little me thought points and rebounds and production in general was important to basketball, please enlighten me as to how all of that pales in comparison to triple doubles and name recognition
Easy.

You use one player named Kidd to do what 3-5 scrubs can do.

Wait.

It gets better.

The Mavs can try to make up for the stunning production of guys like Diop and George with the remainder of their bench.

Kidd is an All-Star.

[td4mvp21]

If anyone thinks this trade eliminates Dallas as a contender, you're not very intelligent. That would still be their core of Terry, Nowitzki, and Howard, along with Kidd. Yes, the players they are giving up cause some problems for the Spurs so that would be a good thing. But their big three will still perform like they always do against us, and any other team.

I also think it would be interesting for the Spurs to try and get Diop away from the Nets...exchange some expiring contracts maybe, who knows.

[fyatuk]

:oops you got me

foolish little me thought points and rebounds and production in general was important to basketball, please enlighten me as to how all of that pales in comparison to triple doubles and name recognition

It's a fallacy to just add them up because Kidd is not going to be playing all their minutes. Kidd's production will replace Harris's (less points, slightly more assists, more rebounds), and someone else will fill the empty minutes created by the departure of Stackhouse, Diop, etc.

Figure out who the production of whoever takes the other places and add that to Kidd's, then you can add up all those and compare those totals, but you can't compare across positions like that.

[T Park]

If anyone thinks this trade eliminates Dallas as a contender, you're not very intelligent. That would still be their core of Terry, Nowitzki, and Howard, along with Kidd. Yes, the players they are giving up cause some problems for the Spurs so that would be a good thing. But their big three will still perform like they always do against us, and any other team.

I also think it would be interesting for the Spurs to try and get Diop away from the Nets...exchange some expiring contracts maybe, who knows.

So you don't think losing Diop who guarded Duncan well, and Harris who caused problems AND was a good defender, doesn't help the Spurs? A slower PG that can't shoot jumpers will fix them?


I see.

[vander]

Easy.

You use one player named Kidd to do what 3-5 scrubs can do.

Wait.

It gets better.

The Mavs can try to make up for the stunning production of guys like Diop and George with the remainder of their bench.

Kidd is an All-Star.

so you are operating under the assumption that Kidd is going to severely up his game once he gets to Dallas? cause I don't see how 11-10-8 at 36% shooting adds up to the all star addition you are making him out to be

[Ghost Writer]

If anyone thinks this trade eliminates Dallas as a contender, you're not very intelligent. That would still be their core of Terry, Nowitzki, and Howard, along with Kidd. Yes, the players they are giving up cause some problems for the Spurs so that would be a good thing. But their big three will still perform like they always do against us, and any other team.

I also think it would be interesting for the Spurs to try and get Diop away from the Nets...exchange some expiring contracts maybe, who knows.
How about the arrogance of the Spurs here, thinking the Mavericks would make this move with the Spurs in mind.

You are basing your logic for this trade being bad for the Mavs on the 2006 playoffs for krissakes.

Dallas makes this deal to keep pace with the Suns and Lakers.

The Spurs are the invalids hoping there is still a leftover chair when the music stops.

[fyatuk]

If anyone thinks this trade eliminates Dallas as a contender, you're not very intelligent. That would still be their core of Terry, Nowitzki, and Howard, along with Kidd. Yes, the players they are giving up cause some problems for the Spurs so that would be a good thing. But their big three will still perform like they always do against us, and any other team.

I also think it would be interesting for the Spurs to try and get Diop away from the Nets...exchange some expiring contracts maybe, who knows.

This trade in and of itself weakens the Mavs. They gave up a LOT of minutes per game, aka people they use regularly, to get one person back. If they fill in the newly created holes, it could be great for them. Otherwise, they'll be like the Suns and wear themselves out by the time the playoffs come around.

[pad300]

If anyone thinks this trade eliminates Dallas as a contender, you're not very intelligent. That would still be their core of Terry, Nowitzki, and Howard, along with Kidd. Yes, the players they are giving up cause some problems for the Spurs so that would be a good thing. But their big three will still perform like they always do against us, and any other team.

I also think it would be interesting for the Spurs to try and get Diop away from the Nets...exchange some expiring contracts maybe, who knows.

Actually, what does this do to Terry is a pretty good question? Does he become their starting SG? Or are he and Kidd in a minutes crunch? Or does Avery do a bunch of 2 PG sets?

[T Park]

Dallas makes this deal to keep pace with the Suns and Lakers

If thats the case, how come they didn't get a big man to guard Shaq and or Bynum and Gasol?

Question

[ludda]

The mavs had a problem with ball movement and a smart playmaker against tighter defenses. Kidd provides that. It will be interesting to see their O after this.

They lose a lot, but obviously Harris wasn't the floor general they were looking for. Or at least not for this or the next season. I guess they didn't want to wait for Dirk to further decline and Howard is already 27/28.

[Ghost Writer]

so you are operating under the assumption that Kidd is going to severely up his game once he gets to Dallas? cause I don't see how 11-10-8 at 36% shooting adds up to the all star addition you are making him out to be
Where do you find these people, timvp?

Is he serious or just messing around?

Let me put it this way...

Would the Bobcats trade their entire bench for LeBron James, even though the bench produces more stats than James alone?



Next.

[ChumpDumper]

How does Kidd "kill" Harris?

[FromWayDowntown]

I'm surprised that Ghost isn't asking about the effect this has on the All-Star Game.

[T Park]

Where do you find these people, timvp?

Is he serious or just messing around?

Let me put it this way...

Would the Bobcats trade their entire bench for LeBron James, even though the bench produces more stats than James alone?



Next.


For someone that loves stats you love to ignore he shoots 36%

You wanna say how adding a 36% shooter to a team of jump shooters improves them against the Spurs whos main goal defensively is to SHOOT long jumpers?


Or have you totally forgotten how the Spurs play D and fixated your sights on being like Mike D'Antoni.

[T Park]

The mavs had a problem with ball movement and a smart playmaker against tighter defenses. Kidd provides that. It will be interesting to see their O after this.

They lose a lot, but obviously Harris wasn't the floor general they were looking for. Or at least not for this or the next season. I guess they didn't want to wait for Dirk to further decline and Howard is already 27/28.

They fixed that, but now have given up all their advantages against the Spurs.

So they improved going against other teams, but weakened themselves vs the Spurs.

[vander]

Where do you find these people, timvp?

Is he serious or just messing around?

Let me put it this way...

Would the Bobcats trade their entire bench for LeBron James, even though the bench produces more stats than James alone?



Next.

OK so now Kidd is comparable to Lebron James, where is this coming from? why do you think so highly of Kidd? what is he doing right now at the young age of 36 that makes you think he is worth anything?


Edit: if I name drop timvp and end my post with "Next" does that make me more credible? :lol

[Manu's Bald Spot]

I understand to a sense why they did it, but in the end, I'm not sure this trade improves them that much. Jason Kidd is a good player...but this dude CANNOT shoot anymore. Devin Harris was a solid mid ranger shooter and was great at getting to the basket. He was Dallas' version of Tony Parker in a sense. Kidd's passing won't be as big of an upgrade here because he's not that great of pg when it comes to the halfcourt offense, which is what dallas runs most of the time now. Maybe Avery will get Dallas running more, but with that team, not sure if they're a running crew. Also, it's not like Dallas needed his rebounding help, they were a solid rebounding team before this (I know, I'm startin to sound like Hollinger, but you have to admit he brings up some good points in his analysis).

I can see how Jason Kidd can be helpful in defending bigger pgs (i.e. Baron Davis). But Kidd defending Nash/Paul/Parker? I have a very hard time believing that. And once they blow by Kidd, now there isn't Diop to help out in the middle, only Dampier, and in the end he's just a big body in there.

On top of all of that, Dallas JUST signed Devin to an extension as their PG of the future! Now they're gonna mortgage their future for a PG who isn't getting any younger or better?

Obviously I dont' think this is a great trade for dallas, I was personally already scared of them before, but now I feel slightly better that we can beat them. I felt Stackhouse and Harris were both problems for us when we played them, but now we don't have to deal with them anymore. And I can't wait to see if Kidd can guard the quicker pgs of the west. Maybe Dallas wanted a trio of big names like everybody else is doing now. Maybe this trade will help and I'm wrong. But I'm thinking 3 years from now, Dallas might regret this trade.

[Streakyshooter08]

Well, that Stackhouse resigns with Dallas makes it a much better deal for them. It is basically Kidd/ Allen for Harris, Diop, Ager, George... not that bad.

[sabar]

Old Kidd averages more turnovers than Beno and they lose two Spurs killers.
Explain why we should be afraid of this?

And if Dallas doesn't make this move with the Spurs in mind, then we obviously will never meet them and the whole argument is moot. Kidd can post up Parker? Well who cares since we are old and useless and first round exits? </sarcasm>

[Ghost Writer]

An entire bench for Lebron is not comparable to the Dallas guys for Kidd?

Dude, do you know who Kidd is?

Look at some stats.

He is starting for the Eastern All Stars.

Your rationale of adding up stats is ludicrous.

[Radiosparks]

I wouldn't trade Splitter. I would trade Mahinmi and or Elson. This year's draft pick? Probobly. 09's?? I dunno, more than likely yes.

I agree with the exception of draft picks. I would go for one draft pick but not two IMO.

[T Park]

Before this trade I would've said Spurs in 7.

Now I'd say Spurs in 5 or 6. The matchups have flipped that much and flipped THAT MUCH into the Spurs favor.

That being said, it would be nice in the playoffs if they knocked off Phoenix and or LA for us :lol

[T Park]

He is starting for the Eastern All Stars.


So because some myopic idiots on the east coast vote him in you think that means hes still fantastic?


And Im the one you call special olympics?

[T Park]

Kidd can post up Parker?

Good for him.

Hopefully he does and shoots from 15 feet away and clanks it like he has all season since hes a 36% shooter

[vander]

An entire bench for Lebron is not comparable to the Dallas guys for Kidd?

Dude, do you know who Kidd is?

Look at some stats.

He is starting for the Eastern All Stars.

Your rationale of adding up stats is ludicrous.

you just keep asking if people know Who Kidd is, ignoring any fact based arguments, I don't think YOU know who Kidd is. do you know what year this is at least?

[mavsfan1000]

The mavs got raped. It breaks my heart.

[dallaskd]

ESPN, Deal is close. (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3244102)



If the Mavericks trade Harris AND Stackhouse AND Diop, for Kidd?

The Spurs can mark one contender right off the list.

Stackhouse is coming right back to Dallas.

[Ghost Writer]

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/jason_kidd/

Learn something.

11, 8 and 10 don't grow on trees.

I mean, he's no Devin Harris, but the ol' man is still pretty good.

If I find some rope, can you look for a tree?

[WalterBenitez]

Is it the weather or what?

Why everyone is coming to the west?

IMHO, Mavs will improve with this trade.

[lonestr]

Given his 36% shooting. He does bring a certain veteran experience, which is much more salient than anyone on the current Mavs roster. But to swap Stackhouse and Diop does remove a certain aggressiveness which they will need come playoff time. The Mavericks will be the New Nets, ant the Nets will be the new Mavericks.

[T Park]

Stackhouse is coming right back to Dallas.


Yeah and.

[T Park]

Given his 36% shooting. He does bring a certain veteran experience, which is much more salient than anyone on the current Mavs roster. But to swap Stackhouse and Diop does remove a certain aggressiveness which they will need come playoff time. The Mavericks will be the New Nets, ant the Nets will be the new Mavericks.

Veteran presence can't guard Tony parker.

[WalterBenitez]

The mavs got raped. It breaks my heart.

raped!? is sth you like? I don't see Mavs were raped, they got PG that could improve your performance.

[Obstructed_View]

The Mavs just traded away the only guy in the league who can give Tony Parker trouble on both ends of the floor for a guy Tony Parker makes a point of destroying every time they face off. The Mavericks need to be praying that someone knocks off the Spurs if they want to come out of the west.

Devin Harris will be an all star for the east next year.

[T Park]

The Mavs just traded away the only guy in the league who can give Tony Parker trouble on both ends of the floor for a guy Tony Parker makes a point of destroying every time they face off. The Mavericks need to be praying that someone knocks off the Spurs if they want to come out of the west.

Im really hoping they knock off LA and or Phoenix first then the Spurs can beat em :lol

[dallaskd]

I'm going to refer back to this thread in a couple months and see if all of yall are still believing this trade is going to pad the way to a championship. Right now the Spurs are looking at a 5 or 6 seed. You gotta clinch a playoff seed before you talk going to the finals.

[vander]

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/jason_kidd/


oh, oh THAT Jason Kidd. sorry I was thinking of someone else entirely



If I find some rope, can you look for a tree?

ooh thats classy right there, you are a tribute to spurs fans everywhere, and an excellent point-for-point debater to boot :clap

[Holt's Cat]

I'm going to refer back to this thread in a couple months and see if all of yall are still believing this trade is going to pad the way to a championship. Right now the Spurs are looking at a 5 or 6 seed. You gotta clinch a playoff seed before you talk going to the finals.


I'll give you 10-1 the Spurs make the playoffs with a healthy Duncan, Parker, & Ginobili. Game?

[Obstructed_View]

Im really hoping they knock off LA and or Phoenix first then the Spurs can beat em :lol
There is now officially nobody in the west that worries me. The biggest threat to the Spurs chance of a repeat are, in order:

1. Injuries
2. Smallball©
3. Boston/Detroit
4. Everything else

[T Park]

There is now officially nobody in the west that worries me. The biggest threat to the Spurs chance of a repeat are, in order:

1. Injuries
2. Smallball©
3. Boston/Detroit
4. Everything else


With the way the west looks, smallball I think is dead so cross that one off.

[lonestr]

Veteran presence can't guard Tony parker.

So true TPark, but don't discount his experience despite him coming from the Eastern conference. With players like Terry and Dirk around him can add that certain I.Q. where the Mavs can become efficient. As for guarding Parker one on one, Kidd is going to have fits. I only say this because Kidd adds a certain intrigue against the Suns with Snack in the line up. I apologize if I sounded how Kidd affects the Spurs match up. Just looking at how the trade affects the top teams in our conference.

[ChumpDumper]

With the way the west looks, smallball I think is dead so cross that one off.I think Pop will still go to it. That's why I'm still fine with a Miller trade, as remote as that possibility seems.

[T Park]

I think Pop will still go to it. That's why I'm still fine with a Miller trade, as remote as that possibility seems.

What teams would he go against with it?

[lonestr]

I'm going to refer back to this thread in a couple months and see if all of yall are still believing this trade is going to pad the way to a championship. Right now the Spurs are looking at a 5 or 6 seed. You gotta clinch a playoff seed before you talk going to the finals.

Dallaskd, we still have the second half of the season to play out. With our division teams having a few games behind the top slot. But I can see Mavs dropping to 5-6 with this trade. I just don't see anyone passing out seed slots just yet.

I hear tings, I hear tings! -Robert DeNiro

[ChumpDumper]

What teams would he go against with it?Any team we fall behind during a game.

[T Park]

Any team we fall behind during a game.

Yikes. That aint good.

[HighLowLobForBig-50]

please lord, please let the deal go through

T Park, you gonna be on the show today?

[bresilhac]

I'm going to refer back to this thread in a couple months and see if all of yall are still believing this trade is going to pad the way to a championship. Right now the Spurs are looking at a 5 or 6 seed. You gotta clinch a playoff seed before you talk going to the finals.

Think about it. What team in the West will knockoff San Antonio in a series? With all of these desperation moves being made by the Western powers they still don't add up to a team that can beat the Spurs in a series. And the team I feared the most is now only a shell of its former self with Harris, Stack and Diop gone. Look for the Spurs to repeat.

[lonestr]

Think about it. What team in the West will knockoff San Antonio in a series? With all of these desperation moves being made by the Western powers they still don't add up to a team that can beat the Spurs in a series. And the team I feared the most is now only a shell of its former self with Harris, Stack and Diop gone. Look for the Spurs to repeat.

Sing it buddy!!, that's what I'm talking 'bout!! Key word: "series".

[Amarelooms]

Think about it. What team in the West will knockoff San Antonio in a series? With all of these desperation moves being made by the Western powers they still don't add up to a team that can beat the Spurs in a series. And the team I feared the most is now only a shell of its former self with Harris, Stack and Diop gone. Look for the Spurs to repeat.

Stack in coming back to Dallas....Mavs just gave up Devin and trash for Kidd :elephant

[T Park]

Lovely, the maverick trolls show up.

[Amarelooms]

Lovely, the maverick trolls show up.

Lol you aint too bright huh...this is Mavs trade... :elephant

[SpursFan0728]

Lol you aint too bright huh...this is Mavs trade... :elephant
i honestly don't see anything happy for mavs fans in this trade...
NJ nets weren't even a contender in the east

[vander]

Think about it. What team in the West will knockoff San Antonio in a series? With all of these desperation moves being made by the Western powers they still don't add up to a team that can beat the Spurs in a series. And the team I feared the most is now only a shell of its former self with Harris, Stack and Diop gone. Look for the Spurs to repeat.

I like that it's back to the good old days where the real battle every year was the Spurs vs. Kobe and the Lakers, or maybe Spurs vs. Shaq if they manage to get Artest.

its eeeeerie

[Amarelooms]

i honestly don't see anything happy for mavs fans in this trade...
NJ nets weren't even a contender in the east

Yep you aint to bright. Mavs get an all-star point guard for Devin Harris and trash plus picks. Granted Devin is talented and has lots of potential but injury prone. Mavs needed to make a move...the current team was not going to win. If Stack does end up coming back its a great move. :elephant

[vander]

Yep you aint to bright. Mavs get an all-star point guard for Devin Harris and trash plus picks. Granted Devin is talented and has lots of potential but injury prone. Mavs needed to make a move...the current team was not going to win. If Stack does end up coming back its a great move. :elephant

I would advise Mav Fans, and Ghost Writer NOT to read the Hollinger article about the trade, just don't do it to yourselves, ignorance is bliss.

[Shank]

I would advise Mav Fans, and Ghost Writer NOT to read the Hollinger article about the trade, just don't do it to yourselves, ignorance is bliss.

It's better to read something from someone that knows what he's talking about. Hollinger didn't even recognize the return of Stackhouse.

[MajicMan]

Yep you aint to bright. Mavs get an all-star point guard for Devin Harris and trash plus picks. Granted Devin is talented and has lots of potential but injury prone. Mavs needed to make a move...the current team was not going to win. If Stack does end up coming back its a great move. :elephant
You ain't "too" bright yourself. :elephant

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

This helps Dallas beat the Warriors.
:lol :tu

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

So Suns have trade Marion and Mavs will maybe trade Harris ....
:hungry: Parker will have some fun during these playoffs. :hungry:
:tu :tu :tu

[T Park]

It's better to read something from someone that knows what he's talking about. Hollinger didn't even recognize the return of Stackhouse.
Whos to say Cleveland doesn't try and sign him?

[DespЏrado]

the hollinger article:
The Lakers must be falling over with laughter by now.

In the wake of their acquisition of Pau Gasol -- a trade that cost them nothing of value -- two of their biggest rivals for Western Conference supremacy responded by dealing key pieces of their core for Eastern Conference legends in their mid-30s. First, of course, came Phoenix's deal for Shaquille O'Neal last week, and now the Mavericks have jumped in with today's close-to-completion deal for Jason Kidd.

This isn't nearly as bad as the Shaq trade -- let me get that out of the way up front. But it has the same whiff of panic to it, coming as it did after the Mavs suffered consecutive whippings at the hands of second-tier Eastern teams, and following Mark Cuban's insistence that Dallas wouldn't unload half its team for Kidd.

[+] Enlarge
Jason Kidd

Kevin C. Cox/Getty Images

The Jason Kidd Era in Jersey appears to be ending.

But that's exactly what they're about to do. Dallas is about to send Devin Harris, Jerry Stackhouse, DeSagana Diop, Devean George, Maurice Ager, cash and two first-round picks to New Jersey for Kidd, Antoine Wright, Malik Allen and a second-rounder. (Technically it would be two trades, with Wright for a No. 2 as a side deal in order to meet league roster requirements).

Obviously, the two protagonists are Kidd and Harris. So let me ask you a provocative question that I brought up when the three-way version of this deal was kicked around: Would you trade Harris for Kidd, straight up?

Based on notoriety alone, most would offer a quick yes. But shine that light a little closer. Kidd's PER this season is 16.07, while Harris is way ahead at 18.66. This may shock some people who have only seen the reports of his triple-doubles, but Kidd is scoring at a much lower rate this season, shooting a hideous 36.7 percent from the field, and his turnover rate has skyrocketed. While he's far from the only culprit, his decline is one reason the Nets are 25th in offensive efficiency; the Mavs, in contrast, are second with Harris as quarterback.

Per 40 minutes, Harris averages nearly seven points more; that's huge. He also gets to the line more than twice as often and shoots a far better percentage from the field. His true shooting percentage of 59.2 dwarfs Kidd's 48.3. Think about that difference for a second -- for every nine shots they take (including free-throw sessions), Harris has a one-point advantage.

Finally, Harris is a huge plus at the defensive end, where he has the quickness to defend the Parkers, Pauls and Nashes of the West and was second in the league in offensive fouls drawn last season, according to 82games.com. By my methods, he was the best defensive point guard in the league in 2006-07. Unfortunately, the one guy he struggled against was Baron Davis, a fact that may be seared in the Mavs' memories given how last season ended.

Kidd's two big advantages are passing and rebounding, and they're gargantuan differences, make no mistake. But if you break it down, it seems his numbers in those two categories might decline in Dallas' system.

As far as assists go, the Mavs are one of the league's most isolation-heavy teams and annually have among the league's lowest rates of assisted baskets; the Nets are the opposite and are annually among the highest. It's possible Dallas changes some of that to take advantage of Kidd, of course, but somehow I imagine the high-post isos for Dirk Nowitzki and Josh Howard will remain the bread-and-butter of the offense.

Additionally, Kidd's passing skills are most lethal in transition, but the Mavs run infrequently. While some still imagine this as a Wild West Don Nelson outfit, Dallas has been one of the league's slowest-paced teams ever since Avery Johnson took over.

My thoughts: and this is where our ability to defend the transition was not helpful against the Mavs traditionally. Because they didn't rely on transition points to beat us.

Getting The Point

Kidd's trade at least allows the NBA to undo a grave injustice. Voted in as a starter in the East, Kidd would now presumably suit up with the West on Sunday.

To fill his vacated spot, the league could tab Toronto point guard Jose Calderon, whose ridiculous efficiency was somehow overlooked by Eastern Conference coaches when they chose the reserves. It would be a poetic justice, as it was Kidd's selection as a starter that effectively cost Calderon a much-deserved spot in the first place. -- Hollinger

On the rebounds, New Jersey's frontcourt rebounding was historically bad for the first two months of this season, as I mentioned in another piece earlier on -- leaving a ton of boards available for Kidd to grab. In fact, Kidd's rebound rate has declined quite a bit since Josh Boone took over for Jason Collins, as fewer caroms were left over for the guards. Similarly, he won't have as many boards available for him to snag in Dallas, where the Mavs are already seventh in the league in defensive rebound rate (nearly all of Kidd's boards are defensive).

OK, so he won't score as much as Harris and he might lose a bit on his rebounds and assists. One can still come up with some offsetting positives. For starters, Kidd is a leader in a locker room that appears in need of one. Dallas' testicular fortitude has been questioned in the past two postseasons, so perhaps he can make a difference there. And it's possible he'll be more motivated in Big D than he was in New Jersey; at the very least, I suspect he'll suffer from fewer headaches.

In addition, Kidd is a good defender against bigger guards, which means Dallas might be able to play him and Jason Terry together for 40 minutes and dispense with the 30 scoreless minutes they're getting each night from the Eddie Jones-Trenton Hassell combo. (Although just in case they get nostalgic, Wright's addition makes it a trio of wing guys who can defend but can't score).

But before you get too excited, look into the future. Kidd is 10 years older and costs five times as much; even after Harris' extension kicks in he'll be triple the cost. Which player do you think you'd rather have in 2008-09? What about in 2009-10, presuming the Mavs extend Kidd, when he'll be 36 and Harris 26?

I know, I know -- this move was made primarily with this season in mind. So let's say after all that you still like Kidd better than Harris. Do you like him so much better that you're willing to include Stackhouse and Diop and two first-round draft choices?

Diop was Dallas' starting center and best low-post defender (Side note: guess that Shaq trade had them real worried, huh?), while Stackhouse was one of their most important bench players. In fact, the irony of this trade is that a big reason for Dallas' recent struggles is that Harris and Stackhouse have been injured.

The Mavs are 4-4 since Harris went out; Stackhouse has played only once in that time, for just 11 minutes. It's an ugly 4-4 too. Of the wins, two were against Memphis and one was Milwaukee; the losses included one-sided setbacks against Detroit, New Jersey and Philadelphia.

That takes us to an aspect of this trade nobody is paying any attention to: Harris' huge impact on the Mavs' success over the past two seasons. In 2006-07, when Dallas won 67 games, guess who had the biggest on-court/off-court point differential? Hint: It wasn't the MVP. According to 82games.com, Dallas was a whopping +14.2 points per 48 minutes with Harris on the court. Moreover, the Harris-Nowitzki combo was the single most effective player combination in the league.:wow:wow:wow

This year, the Harris-Terry-Howard-Nowitzki-Dampier unit has played 164 minutes together and outscored opponents by 43 points (that's a whopping 12.6 points per 48 minutes). The four most common Harris-Terry arrangements all have massively positive point differentials, adding up to an advantage of +20.7 points per 48 minutes(!). So much for the idea that you can't play two small guards together.

No, we're not done yet -- there's one final point to consider. The Nets will likely buy out Stackhouse, but there's no guarantee Dallas will be able to re-sign him; in fact, by rule they aren't allowed to for 30 days.

In the meantime, is it that hard to imagine bench-starved Cleveland diving in with the $4.1 million remaining on its midlevel exception, or the Pistons ($3.86 million) bringing him back to Motown to replace the struggling Jarvis Hayes? For that matter, what about the Spurs ($4.4 million) or Suns (full midlevel) breaking out the wampum just to spite their Western rivals? Keep in mind, too, that these salaries would be prorated for the rest of this year, lowering the luxury tax hit those teams would take.

In the final analysis, then, it seems Dallas gave up quite a bit to make what is, even with the most rose-colored glasses, a marginal upgrade at the point. It's possible it could work, but my issue with this deal is that the risk and reward seem out of line. Much like Phoenix with the Shaq deal, I can't help but wonder if the Mavs are fixated on what Kidd was 18 months ago rather than what he'll be over the next 18 months.

Let me repeat that I'm not nearly not as down on this trade as I am on Phoenix's. But on balance, I think it puts Dallas farther from a title rather than closer. And as a result, I suspect Lakers GM Mitch Kupchak may be having a quiet chuckle when he checks his Blackberry today.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Now matchups matter.

And Harris is nowhere near the player Kidd is.

Another contender gets better.

Spurs don't.
You're a fucking idiot.

[NuGGeTs-FaN]

AI is going to have a field day :smokin

Harris was quicker and better on D.

Great deal for the Nets

[vander]

It's better to read something from someone that knows what he's talking about.

this is always the war cry of the fan base who's team was criticized.

go ahead and comfort yourself with the return of Stack, but the article still mostly rings true.

[SenorSpur]

My hunch is that a moving is coming, too. And I think it's most likely a move for a rebounding big guy with a reasonable contract and no real baggage in exchange for some combination of expiring deals, existing non-active assets, and cash.

I don't know that Diop will be that move, but I actually see Diop as a good fit here, if only because he would provide three things the Spurs need: (1) a good positional post defender; (2) a credible second shot blocker; and (3) a reasonably good rebounder. Add to that the fact that he's still a fairly young player and his fit makes all the more sense. In fact, Diop could very easily be a better version of Nazr Mohammed at a significantly reduced price. It's not the sexy, splashy move that Casper wants, but it seems like the sort of heady, shrewd move that the Spurs tend to make.

I like the thought and support this move 1000%. It makes sense for all the reasons you've indicated. If Pop and the Spurs FO were nervous about the Gasol-to-the-Fakers trade, then Diop would be a good antidote to counter the "size" acquisitions made by the Fakers and Suns. He would solidfy the frontline by doing some of the dirty work against those bigger teams - work that Tim has to do now.

Over the past week, isn't it funny how PHX and the Fakers got bigger and the Mavs, who were big, got smaller?

I've given up hope of the Spurs getting a swingman before the trade deadline. However, acquiring Diop would be good move now and for down the road.

[NuGGeTs-FaN]

which western team is next to make a move?

Nuggets for Mike Miller or Artest :smokin

[DespЏrado]

This trade is all kinds of win for the Spurs. I am so much more confident about the repeats without Harris and Diop in Dallas. Dallas lost their roleplayers that made them so effective against us.

I don't even see how Terry and Kidd can coexist. Terry somehow worked with Harris but I don't see that working out so well with Kidd for some reason.

The Lakers are now the most dangerous team in the West next to the Spurs, How quickly the west's outloook changed.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Wow! Giving up on Harris at this point - what a mistake.

I suppose Cuban thinks Dampier and Bass can slow down Timmy... :lol

[loveforthegame]

I cannot believe all that Dallas had to give up. I understand they'll get Stackhouse back once he sits out 30 days but what else are they going to use for depth? Not to mention having to throw in cash and 2 1st round picks.

Harris and Diop always kill Spurs.

[lurker]

Congratulations on the 2007-2008 Championship, Spurs fans.

See you next season.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/jason_kidd/

Learn something.

11, 8 and 10 don't grow on trees.

I mean, he's no Devin Harris, but the ol' man is still pretty good.

If I find some rope, can you look for a tree?

So he's getting his assists each game by throwing it to Dirk for spot up jumpers instead of Jefferson on the alley oop. Same thing Harris was doing.

Big fucking deal.

[DespЏrado]

Congratulations on the 2007-2008 Championship, Spurs fans.

See you next season.


It's always sad when a team literally dismantles itself from inside out. Harris may have inconsistent but he was the best spurs killer in the league the last few years.

Maybe having an expiring Kidd contract will help you down the line but I doubt it.

[Mark in Austin]

While this trade would help the Mavs versus every other NBA team, this would massively help the Spurs chances of beating Dallas in the playoffs. Harris guards Parker well. Diop guards Duncan well. Stackhouse and George turn into Jordan and Pippen when they play the Spurs.

Kidd is damn good but the Spurs have multiple players who can guard him .... and Kidd can't really guard anyone on the Spurs outside of Bowen.

This needs to become official.

Fast.


Couldn't agree more. If Kidd starts posting up Parker and Tony struggles, sic Bowen on Kidd's ass. Parker slides over to cover Terry, and Ginobili covers Howard. But Parker can cover Kidd. Hell, he did well against Billups in '05. Parker is 6'2", Billups 6'3", and Kidd 6'4".

[Obstructed_View]

Pop won't ever need to go small against the Mavs because Manu and Parker will score 55 points a game against Kidd and Terry. Duncan will also do well not having to play against Diop.

Whoever said it earlier was right; the Mavs got raped in this trade.

[clubalien]

what i don't understand is that it seems kidd wants OUT of NJ.. but he wouldn't sign with us and alstar bigman timmy

I mean what does it say about san antonio if a player wants out of a city had a chance to sign with you and then doesn't , but re ups for the team he wants gone from.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

what i don't understand is that it seems kidd wants OUT of NJ.. but he wouldn't sign with us and alstar bigman timmy

I mean what does it say about san antonio if a player wants out of a city had a chance to sign with you and then doesn't , but re ups for the team he wants gone from.

Kidd wants out now, he didn't want out back in 2003. Get with the program junior.

[baseline bum]

He is still good.

I felt it was smarter to get a big man in 2003.

I had no idea it would be Rasho.

Anyway, I can't believe people here hold Harris in such high regard.

Kidd kills him.

Revisionist history. You hated Kidd, and talked all kinds of bad things about his shooting and defense (in favor of getting Payton).

I cannot believe Dallas broke up a young and promising core like that. The Marion trade is at least defensible when you cite his contract and whining, but Harris is a pretty good defensive player and a far superior slasher, on top of being an unquestionably better shooter. I've only seen 3 or 4 of Kidd's games this season, but in that sample he has looked old. Maybe it's just a motivation thing though.

[baseline bum]

Kidd wants out now, he didn't want out back in 2003. Get with the program junior.

Yeah he did... his crazy bitch didn't want out in 2003.

[endrity]

Tony Parker is sleeping very well tonight. So is Duncan.

Rod Thorn raped Donnie and Mark every possible way. This is it for the Mavs. No way we rebuild quickly enough to still give Dirk a chance.

In a way I hope Dirk gets traded in the summer. Let him try to win his championship elsewhere, since he is clearely not winning it in Dallas.

[Trainwreck2100]

Maybe they can beat the Warriors now?

[Amarelooms]

Tony Parker is sleeping very well tonight. So is Duncan.

Rod Thorn raped Donnie and Mark every possible way. This is it for the Mavs. No way we rebuild quickly enough to still give Dirk a chance.

In a way I hope Dirk gets traded in the summer. Let him try to win his championship elsewhere, since he is clearely not winning it in Dallas.

The only part I dont like are the 2 first round picks. Harris, Diop and George i couldn't careless about. Devin has some potential but he's never gonna be an all-star PG. If we get Stack back its all good.... :elephant

[vander]

The only part I dont like are the 2 first round picks. Harris, Diop and George i couldn't careless about. Devin has some potential but he's never gonna be an all-star PG. If we get Stack back its all good.... :elephant

question for mav fans: could there be some regret to the 43 million extension given to Harris, is he perhaps not living up to the expectations and the mavs were secretly happy to dump that contract?

[debo]

Stupid trade..JK is pretty irrelevant at this age. Sorry, but it's true.

fucking moron stfu he is a triple double machine. The only reason it seems irrelevant is because hes team sucks ass

[LaMarcus Bryant]

ROFL

I heard about this on the radio and nearly bloaded my own chode

HILARIOUS

[DespЏrado]

The only part I dont like are the 2 first round picks. Harris, Diop and George i couldn't careless about. Devin has some potential but he's never gonna be an all-star PG. If we get Stack back its all good.... :elephant


How do you respond to this fact:
Dallas was a whopping +14.2 points per 48 minutes with Harris on the court. Moreover, the Harris-Nowitzki combo was the single most effective player combination in the league.

[picnroll]

George blocked the deal. :rollin

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

George blocked the deal. :rollin
Link?

[vander]

George blocked the deal. :rollin


:rollin:rollin

they should make the trade without him, then buy him out, who the Fuck does he think he is?

[vander]

Link?

i not know how search internets


j/k

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Link?
nevermind, picnroll.
Got it.

[jag]

Dallas Fans are on an emotional roller coaster right now...they've officially lowered themselves to the Sun's level...actually, they're worse than the Suns right now.

[fyatuk]

It's better to read something from someone that knows what he's talking about. Hollinger didn't even recognize the return of Stackhouse.

If him coming back under a different contract has already been talked about, that's a violation of league rules, btw.

Otherwise that would be a gamble since Stack would be free to sign with anyone for 30 days before he could sign back with the Mavs.

[lonestr]

Well, regardless of the roller coaster ride of trade then no trade, this proves that Dallas was really desperate to make a trade, as the others, to dispense our Spurs in the playoffs even though they said they weren't. This speaks volumes now that we've seen Cuban with his pants down. Go George!!

[jag]

Well, regardless of the roller coaster ride of trade then no trade, this proves that Dallas was really desperate to make a trade, as the others, to dispense our Spurs in the playoffs even though they said they weren't. This speaks volumes now that we've seen Cuban with his pants down. Go George!!

Cuban's been walking around with his pants down since the disaster that was the 2005-2006 NBA Finals.

[debo]

in the interview tim is having right now he was talking about some of the trades made and someone mentioned dallas was close to a trade and tim's eyes lit up
he said something like "dallas, really? they made a trade"

[baseline bum]

Elson+Barry for Kidd... come on, RC.

[vander]

Elson+Barry for Kidd... come on, RC.

Throw Vaughn in there too, and 3 first rounders so they might take him

[Holt's Cat]

Damn, Diop could be/would have been available...


For New Jersey, president Rod Thorn would get back the three elements he most wanted for Kidd: a good young player (Harris), expiring contracts (Diop and George) and draft picks. What’s more, the Nets plan to buyout the rest of Stackhouse’s contract. Stackhouse can become an immediate free agent, but must wait 30 days to re-sign with Dallas.

One league source expected Stackhouse to return to the Mavericks if the trade had been completed.

For the Nets, the trade would clear cap space next season. It will allow them to re-sign forward Nenad Krstic and start rebuilding the franchise after seven straight playoff appearances with Kidd. The Nets are still discussing a Vince Carter-Jermaine O’Neal trade with the Indiana Pacers, but two sources close to those discussions placed odds below 50 percent. According to

link (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-kiddtraded021308&prov=yhoo&type=lgns)

[smeagol]

No I would build around Parker and Duncan. Manu and Bowen would be gone.

Any more brilliant ideas, buddy?

[Ghost Writer]

Cuban doesn't care about the long-term ramifications of the deal. In the past five years, he's had Steve Nash, Jason Terry, Devin Harris and now Jason Kidd as his PGs.

Say what you want, but the Mavs make moves.

[smeagol]

Say what you want, but the Mavs make moves.

And those moves have brought Dallas how many rings. . . ?

[Ghost Writer]

And those moves have brought Dallas how many rings. . . ?
We can't all win the #1 drat pick...

Twice.

[Holt's Cat]

We can't all win the #1 drat pick...

Twice.


And of course the Spurs' success is due solely to Duncan and Robinson and not to players like, say, Tony Parker, Emmanuel Ginobili, and Bruce Bowen.

[TeyshaBlue]

Well, regardless of the roller coaster ride of trade then no trade, this proves that Dallas was really desperate to make a trade, as the others, to dispense our Spurs in the playoffs even though they said they weren't. This speaks volumes now that we've seen Cuban with his pants down. Go George!!

I dont think this trade was meant to "dispense" the Spurs. The Kidd-less Mavs were capable of that. :rolleyes

[Officer Slater]

The Sporks success is due to the magic sporks they wear in their socks!

[reddog 99]

The Sporks success is due to the magic sporks they wear in their socks!

Are you trying to be funny? Sorry I don't get your weird desire to post on another teams board to equate a reply or rise to justify that you do exist as a nome.

Back to your basement! :blah

[Obstructed_View]

Cuban doesn't care about the long-term ramifications of the deal. In the past five years, he's had Steve Nash, Jason Terry, Devin Harris and now Jason Kidd as his PGs.

Say what you want, but the Mavs make moves.

Say what you want, but those moves haven't resulted in championships. The current rationale for acquiring Kidd up here is that he's "been to the finals", which is odd since the entire Dallas roster has been to the finals, too.

[lonestr]

Cuban doesn't care about the long-term ramifications of the deal. In the past five years, he's had Steve Nash, Jason Terry, Devin Harris and now Jason Kidd as his PGs.

Say what you want, but the Mavs make moves.

Yeah, like a hooker trying not to get caught by the cops during a city convention. :lol

[lonestr]

Cuban's been walking around with his pants down since the disaster that was the 2005-2006 NBA Finals.


Ouch! :toast

[Findog]

And of course the Spurs' success is due solely to Duncan and Robinson and not to players like, say, Tony Parker, Emmanuel Ginobili, and Bruce Bowen.

Let's see the Spurs field a dynasty with Tony Longoria or Manu as their best players.

[T Park]

awwwww Dallas fan got hurt.

[Buddy Holly]

We can't all win the #1 drat pick...

Twice.

What does that have to do with anything?

Sincerely,

Yoa Ming, Kwame Brown, Kenyon Martin, Elton Brand and so on and so forth.

[lonestr]

I dont think this trade was meant to "dispense" the Spurs. The Kidd-less Mavs were capable of that. :rolleyes


Oh, I'm sorry Mr. Manz. Then why the trade at all? Don't tell me, Cuban is really scared of the Warriors.

Why do Mavs fans come on this forum when the stench of the past two years' choke jobs hang heavy in the air? :loser

[Agloco]

We can't all win the #1 drat pick...

Twice.


Better choice of words here:

We can't all make the right decision with the number one draft pick...

Twice.

:smokin

[Spurminator]

We can't all convince our #1 draft picks to stick with our team for their entire career.

[sprrs]

Cuban doesn't care about the long-term ramifications of the deal. In the past five years, he's had Steve Nash, Jason Terry, Devin Harris and now Jason Kidd as his PGs.

Say what you want, but the Mavs make moves.

The Grizzlies make moves too. Your point?

[rascal]

And of course the Spurs' success is due solely to Duncan and Robinson and not to players like, say, Tony Parker, Emmanuel Ginobili, and Bruce Bowen.
No doubt the spurs success is solely due to Duncan . They could not win without him.

[Obstructed_View]

Better choice of words here:

We can't all make the right decision with the number one draft pick...

Twice.

:smokin
More important than that is building a championship team around Tim Duncan. Twice. He had opportunities to leave. Timmy, great as he is, would still only have one ring without Manu and Parker.

[Holt's Cat]

No doubt the spurs success is solely due to Duncan . They could not win without him.


And he could not win 3 titles without Parker and Ginobili.

[Ghost Writer]

Oh, please.

What has the front office done besides luck out with two #1s?

All we do is bring in old veterans via free agency or pick up guys off waivers.

[Spurminator]

What has the front office done besides luck out with two #1s?

Kept them.

[Ghost Writer]

Kept them.
Whoopie!

[Spurminator]

I know it's not as exciting as annual roster shuffling for the likes of Antoine Walker, but Spurs fans should appreciate the way the team has managed to convince two Hall of Famers to stick with their small-market team despite the opportunity for more fame and lucrative endorsement deals elsewhere. I'm sure most Spurs fans do.

[Ghost Writer]

I know it's not as exciting as annual roster shuffling for the likes of Antoine Walker, but Spurs fans should appreciate the way the team has managed to convince two Hall of Famers to stick with their small-market team despite the opportunity for more fame and lucrative endorsement deals elsewhere. I'm sure most Spurs fans do.
Fame? Yeah, that's what Robinson and Duncan are all about.

Endorsement deals? They both have their share of opportunities for non-marketable (quiet and classy) stars.

Get a grip.

The front office took care of them financially and the Twin Towers were happy to stay out of the spotlight in San Antonio.

The front office has never been able to actively surround Duncan with any star-quality talent outside of the draft.

Why is that?

[SenorSpur]

For everyone who hates Mark Cuban, it's looking more and more as though HE was the one who fucked this trade up. According to Dallas sports talk radio, Cuban alone, was in negiotiations with Nets President Rod Thorn on the details and components of this trade. It looks as though HE failed to communicate the trade idea back to Stackhouse, George and the other principals involved. Therefore, he never knew about the trade clause in George's contract. Then Stackhouse started running his mouth before the trade was finaized.

[Spurminator]

The front office has never been able to actively surround Duncan with any star-quality talent outside of the draft.

Why is that?


Whatever works.

[E20]

Because no one wants to come to San Antonio.

[fyatuk]

Fame? Yeah, that's what Robinson and Duncan are all about.

The front office has never been able to actively surround Duncan with any star-quality talent outside of the draft.

Why is that?

Because it's cheaper to build through the draft if you are good with your scouting.

And really old people are cheaper than people in their prime.

And it's been proven time and again the the best # of stars on a team is more than 1 and less than 4, so when you have what you think are 3, why try and get more.

Aka, it's not that they've been unable, but had no reason to.

[Holt's Cat]

The front office has never been able to actively surround Duncan with any star-quality talent outside of the draft.

So what? They have one of the best backcourts to have ever suited up for the Spurs in their history.



Why is that?

Small market. Unfavorable cap rules up until 1999 benefitting larger market teams. Uncertainty as to the Spurs' future in San Antonio, etc. The Spurs made a major run at Kidd in 2003, but were hurt due to the fact that the Nets could offer him a 7th guaranteed year.

Further, who cares? They have the 3 stars they need to win championships. Why are you concerned about issues that don't matter anymore?

[Joe Schmoogins]

The front office has never been able to actively surround Duncan with any star-quality talent outside of the draft.

Why is that?


dude... you are ridiculous. 4 championships in 9 years... working on 5 in 10.

[Ghost Writer]

All I want is to shore up a couple weaknesses that I see in the frontcourt and the swingman position.

I think the Spurs should do this now via a trade, rather than waste an excellent opportunity for another ring and miss any decent free agents this summer.

Trades bring in talent.

Cap flexibility does not.

[Holt's Cat]

All I want is to shore up a couple weaknesses that I see in the frontcourt and the swingman position.



What weaknesses are those and who do you propose they bring in?

[Ghost Writer]

What weaknesses are those and who do you propose they bring in?
I've covered this a dozen times in various threads, but I'd like a physical rebounder/shotblocker aligned next to Duncan (Diop, Ratliff, etc.) and a younger swingman who can create his own offense and pop the occasion 3 (G. Green, J. Jones, etc.)

[Holt's Cat]

I've covered this a dozen times in various threads, but I'd like a physical rebounder/shotblocker aligned next to Duncan (Diop, Ratliff, etc.)


Dallas won't deal with the Spurs and vice-versa. Theo Ratliff has played in exactly 6 games this season, early on, and is currently valued solely because of his expiring contract.



and a younger swingman who can create his own offense and pop the occasion 3 (G. Green, J. Jones, etc.)

Why are the Wolves going to give the Spurs one of their younger players? Not to mention that he's by no means reliable from the field this season. Who are the Spurs going to move for an erratic prospect that is less likely to help them WIN NOW?

Why is Portland going to move a guy like Jones? Further, why are they going to gift him to the Spurs? That's wishful thinking.

[Joe Schmoogins]

Oh, please.

What has the front office done besides luck out with two #1s?

All we do is bring in old veterans via free agency or pick up guys off waivers.


How many other #1 picks have won a championship, let alone multiple championships. Not many. Why? Because having the number one pick is far from securing a championship TEAM. What the FO has done so well, is understand what they have, and mold a team around Duncan's strengths. They've managed to keep three superstars happy and fill the rest of the team with experienced vets who have reasonable contracts and understand what it takes to win. They've set a standard of success based upon discipline and high character players, that has gone unmatched in this era of basketball. Furthermore, they've done all of this while keeping a tight budget and respecting the salary cap. That's pretty impresive in my opinion.

[Ghost Writer]

Wowie.

You could bring in old guys, sign waived players and throw max deals at your franchise players, Joe.

[Holt's Cat]

Wowie.

You could bring in old guys, sign waived players and throw max deals at your franchise players, Joe.


Oh yes, it's so simple.

Of course, anyone can make dumb trades, like Ghost, for example.

[Ghost Writer]

Oh yes, it's so simple.

Of course, anyone can make dumb trades, like Ghost, for example.
What's an example of a dumb trade that I suggested?

You mean like your idea to get K. Thomas, when he already is an expiring contract, the Sonics have a ton of picks and their hometown paper said they don't want any more?

[Holt's Cat]

What's an example of a dumb trade that I suggested?

Theo Ratliff
Antoine Walker

For starters. Well wait, you never actually stated who you would trade for them.



You mean like your idea to get K. Thomas, when he already is an expiring contract, the Sonics have a ton of picks and their hometown paper said they don't want any more?

Yeah, my idea of Kurt Thomas, who actually addresses a need, can play, and is playoff tested. Who gives a shit what the media says? How many times have the Spurs told their beat writer what they were going to do before they did it?

Fucking 'tard.

[Ghost Writer]

http://www.thenewstribune.com/sports/story/281965.html

However, it’s unlikely the Sonics will want to part with Thomas because they likely would receive young talent or draft picks in return, and Seattle already has six picks in this year’s draft. Seattle needs veteran pieces to build a nucleus for a playoff contender, and as the starting center, Thomas has provided a much-needed inside presence defensively and on the boards.

Seattle also would like to keep Thomas because he has been a mentor for the younger players.





You were saying.

[vander]

so apparently the trade is still "alive"

I would LOVE to see that trade go though and then the Mavs buy out George, he's got to be punished for his insubordination :lol

[T Park]

http://www.thenewstribune.com/sports/story/281965.html

However, it’s unlikely the Sonics will want to part with Thomas because they likely would receive young talent or draft picks in return, and Seattle already has six picks in this year’s draft. Seattle needs veteran pieces to build a nucleus for a playoff contender, and as the starting center, Thomas has provided a much-needed inside presence defensively and on the boards.

Seattle also would like to keep Thomas because he has been a mentor for the younger players.





You were saying.


Just like Pop saying last year

"There will be no trades"

Then the next day Erick Williams is traded for Melvin Ely.

[fyatuk]

http://www.thenewstribune.com/sports/story/281965.html

However, it’s unlikely the Sonics will want to part with Thomas because they likely would receive young talent or draft picks in return, and Seattle already has six picks in this year’s draft. Seattle needs veteran pieces to build a nucleus for a playoff contender, and as the starting center, Thomas has provided a much-needed inside presence defensively and on the boards.

Seattle also would like to keep Thomas because he has been a mentor for the younger players.

You were saying.

That's bunk. Thomas won't be around to be a veteran presence on a playoff contender, and just because they have 6 picks in this years draft doesn't mean the wouldn't want some for future drafts.

That's a beat writers opinion and not any indication of what Presti or the FO wants.

[Ghost Writer]

That's bunk. Thomas won't be around to be a veteran presence on a playoff contender, and just because they have 6 picks in this years draft doesn't mean the wouldn't want some for future drafts.

That's a beat writers opinion and not any indication of what Presti or the FO wants.
Yeah, but can that really be considered a trade?

They don't even acknowledge that as a deal on the championship DVD.

[T Park]

Yeah, but can that really be considered a trade?

They don't even acknowledge that as a deal on the championship DVD.


Getting a bigman that is a starter and becomes the second best rebounder and someone that can guard Bynum and Shaq well?

Hell if he did that and he won, his picture would be square on the front.

[vander]

:worthy:
I am in awe of GW's basketball knowledge and foresight, that Kidd trade is just what the mavs needed
:worthy:

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Let me restate Kidd is a darn good player and he will do well.

That being said, the advantages of Harris's speed, Diop's defense, and Stackhouse's scoring ability is gone.

Way way too much of an overreaction.


Get a Kurt Thomas.

go to the Finals :smokin
:tu :hat

[phxspurfan]

Why was this bumped?

[T Park]

Haha

That did work good going and getting a Kurt Thomas :smokin

[dallaskd]

I wish we got D.A. in that deal...could use some damn heart right now.