Kidd, Armstrong, Malik Allen, for Devin Harris, Stackhouse,Diop, Ager and George

[T Park]

ESPN, Deal is close. (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3244102)



If the Mavericks trade Harris AND Stackhouse AND Diop, for Kidd?

The Spurs can mark one contender right off the list.

[m33p0]

i think they're more concerned about facing the suns and the lakers right now than they are of us. i would say "flying under the radar" definitely does have its positive outcomes. although this year, spurs couldn't help it.

could we sneak in a diop-for-elson swap first before they do this? :D

[T Park]

They won't beat them either trading their best bigman defender.

[MoSpur]

Wow. Doesn't Diop play good defense on Duncan?

[MajicMan]

Stupid trade..JK is pretty irrelevant at this age. Sorry, but it's true.

[Holt's Cat]

Kidd-Terry-Howard-Nowitzki. Not bad. Their bench lightens up a little bit.

Still, does Kidd really bring that much to the table? That warrants giving up Harris and Stackhouse? Marginally I'd say that's a good trade for the Spurs.

[Ghost Writer]

T Park, I think I am beginning to understand why you post the way you do and yet people on this board celebrate you making a fool of yourself on ESPN.

You are mentally disabled, aren't you.

We're cheering on a Special Olympian.

If the Mavs add Kidd for those bit players, you are looking at the third Western conference rival getting way better, while the Spurs do nothing but get older.


The Spurs would suck at musical chairs.

[Princess Pimp]

ESPN, Deal is close. (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3244102)



If the Mavericks trade Harris AND Stackhouse AND Diop, for Kidd?

The Spurs can mark one contender right off the list.

Why?
Jealousy? Idiot!

[T Park]

Wow. Doesn't Diop play good defense on Duncan?

A big reason IMO in 06 that Duncan and Co didn't win that game in overtime. He stalled Duncan very well in those matchups and others.

IMO this is a bad move for Dallas and a great move for New Jersey.

IMO this makes New Jersey so much better right now.

You get Harris who can set up Carter, and Jefferson. You get a solid center to defend and play well. You get a good bench player in Stackhouse, and you get solid bench guys in Ager and Devin George.

[himat]

Where are all the names in your title mentioned in the article? I have seen so many different trade scenarios with this. I am so confused.

[T Park]

If the Mavs add Kidd for those bit players, you are looking at the third Western conference rival getting way better, while the Spurs do nothing but get older

So the Mavericks trading away three matchups that the Spurs couldn't guard, for one guy that can be defended easier by Parker is a bad move?

Pick up the baton Ghost your in the special ed race kid.

[duncan228]

The article:

Sources: Talks between Mavs, Nets heat up
By Marc Stein
ESPN.com

Jason Kidd has quietly -- and not so quietly -- hoped for a trade to the Dallas Mavericks all season.

And now Kidd has stronger-than-ever hope that the wish will be granted, according to NBA front-office sources.

Sources told ESPN.com that talks between the Mavericks and Nets, which had seemingly stalled, grew serious after the teams played Sunday night in New Jersey and have moved them to the brink of completing the NBA's third blockbuster deal of the month.

Although sources say that the teams are still sorting out final details, this deal was described as "imminent" by one source close to the process after negotiations moved to an advanced stage Tuesday night. The proposed swap -- salvaged from talks of a three-way trade with Portland that developed and fizzled quickly two weeks ago -- would require Dallas to send 24-year-old point guard Devin Harris, veteran swingman Jerry Stackhouse, the expiring contracts of center DeSegana Diop and swingman Devean George and another player such as guard Maurice Ager to New Jersey for Kidd and possibly forward Malik Allen or veteran guard Darrell Armstrong.

It's believed that Dallas would also send New Jersey cash ($3 million is the league maximum) and one or two future first-round draft choices. One source told ESPN.com that the Mavericks and Nets were also discussing a separate trade that would send Antoine Wright to Dallas for a future second-round pick.

Dallas has been widely considered the most likely winner of the Kidd trade sweepstakes, despite the repeated attempts of Mavericks owner Mark Cuban to publicly dismiss the idea of parting with multiple regulars for Kidd. Cuban told several New York-based reporters Sunday before New Jersey beat Dallas that a deal for All-Star floor leader would severely weaken his roster.

"For us to make the numbers work in a deal like that, we'd have to trade away half the team," Cuban said. "We're not doing that, so it just doesn't work. And we like our team. We've got a lot of room for improvement and we hope to get better. But right now, I just don't see anything happening.

Yet sources close to the process insist that the talks have heated up in the past 24 hours, with the Mavs still tantalized by the prospect of bringing Kidd back more than a decade after the pre-Cuban regime drafted him out of Cal, watched him share rookie of the year honors with Grant Hill in 1994-95 and then traded him to Phoenix on the day after Christmas in 1996.

The Mavs' biggest reservation, though, isn't sacrificing Harris. Sources maintain that Dallas, while reluctant to part with one of Cuban's favorite players and its point guard of the future after signing Harris to a contract extension over the summer, has been resigned for some time to losing Harris if it meant getting Kidd back.

The greater hesitation, sources said, is that they would also have to part with Stackhouse and Diop, weakening Dallas' depth. Although it's believed that Stackhouse is likely to be bought out and released by the Nets, which would enable Dallas to re-sign him if he sits out for 30 days, there's no guarantee they can convince Stackhouse to resist the interest of other teams to return once he becomes a free agent. Losing Diop, meanwhile, is an even bigger blow, as that would leave the undependable Erick Dampier as the Mavericks' only veteran center at a time when potential playoff foes like the Los Angeles Lakers (Pau Gasol) and Phoenix Suns (Shaquille O'Neal) are getting bigger.

But Dallas appears more motivated than ever in spite of those concerns and the current lack of a third team to join in and broaden the trade, believing that Kidd -- although he turns 35 in March and is threatening to establish a new career low with his 36.7 percent shooting from the field -- is still a prime source of leadership and mental toughness.

Kidd displayed those qualities in abundance during a strong summer with Team USA and those areas are well-chronicled weak spots for the Mavs, who followed up a historic collapse to Miami in the 2006 NBA Finals with a first-round flameout against Golden State after winning 67 games last season. A point guard of Kidd's caliber, influence and experience would undoubtedly please the demanding Avery Johnson, reinvigorate a team that has been lacking energy and confidence and supply Dallas' coach with a dangerous four-man core of Kidd, Josh Howard, Jason Terry and reigning MVP Dirk Nowitzki.

Nowitzki is the player Kidd has had in mind when privately telling associates in recent months that he hoped to go back to Dallas. Although his desire to leave New Jersey had been suspected all season, Kidd didn't go public with that wish until late January, when he told ESPN The Magazine's Ric Bucher that it's time for him and New Jersey "all to move on" in separate directions.

Kidd was acquired by the Nets in the 2001 offseason in a trade with Phoenix featuring Stephon Marbury and sparked New Jersey to the most successful period in the team's NBA history, starting with back-to-back trips to the NBA Finals in 2002 and 2003. After giving strong consideration to signing with San Antonio in the summer of 2003, Kidd elected to stay with the Nets. During the past four-plus seasons, however, New Jersey has not advanced past the second round of the playoffs, despite the 2004 arrival of Vince Carter and Kidd's successful recovery from microfracture knee surgery.

The Nets were prepared to deal Kidd to the Lakers at the trade deadline last season but pulled out of the deal when the Lakers refused to part with center Andrew Bynum, who has since blossomed. This deal would give them a highly rated point guard who's 10 years younger than Kidd and three cap-friendly contracts if the Mavericks indeed include Ager.

The Nets could come away with even more salary-cap relief if the Mavericks built their trade package around Harris and a signed-and-traded Keith Van Horn. Although he has been out of the game since the end of the 2005-06 season, Van Horn hasn't filed official retirement papers with the league, allowing Dallas to retain his rights. And because Van Horn's final NBA salary was nearly $16 million, Dallas can re-sign him for a substantial amount and thus create a lucrative expiring contract for the Nets, because only the first year of a contract must be guaranteed in a sign-and-trade arrangement.

Cuban, though, told ESPN.com last week that "we won't use [Van Horn] in any deal for anyone." That's because Kidd would cost the Mavericks nearly $40 million next season, thanks to the luxury tax, if they sent only Harris, Van Horn and salary-cap filler to the Nets.

[hater]

Harris, Diop AND Stackhouse????

they are completely dismantling the Mavs. That is not a good trade for them.

[Ghost Writer]

So the Mavericks trading away three matchups that the Spurs couldn't guard, for one guy that can be defended easier by Parker is a bad move?

Pick up the baton Ghost your in the special ed race kid.
Did you just allege that Parker can guard Kidd?

Kidd can abuse him in the post.

You know who Kidd is, right?

What they are offering for him is crap.

[T Park]

Agreed hater.

Every matchup problem they created against the Spurs goes away in an instant.

Bravo New Jersey.

[nkdlunch]

bad trade for Mavs

[vanvannen]

Agree a 100% with TPark here. This would be a FANTASTIC trade for the Spurs.
At this point JK is overrated. Parker will destroy him.

[timvp]

While this trade would help the Mavs versus every other NBA team, this would massively help the Spurs chances of beating Dallas in the playoffs. Harris guards Parker well. Diop guards Duncan well. Stackhouse and George turn into Jordan and Pippen when they play the Spurs.

Kidd is damn good but the Spurs have multiple players who can guard him .... and Kidd can't really guard anyone on the Spurs outside of Bowen.

This needs to become official.

Fast.

[Spurminator]

I for one would be happy to see Devin Harris off the Mavs. I think this trade would improve them overall, but as far as how they match up with the Spurs I feel very good about it.

[VaSpursFan]

imo, this doesnt improve dallas at all. harris had the quickness to give tony problems and diop played awsome d on duncan. stack always seemed to play big games versus us. now they possibly have kidd. the proposed construct of the Mavs makes me laugh, we'll kill them. i kinda like all the panic trades going on out west. the best move for us would be to get a solid 2 which may not be miller after pop voicing his displeasure about the gasol trade.

[Spurminator]

Shit, too late.

[T Park]

Let me restate Kidd is a darn good player and he will do well.

That being said, the advantages of Harris's speed, Diop's defense, and Stackhouse's scoring ability is gone.

Way way too much of an overreaction.


Get a Kurt Thomas.

go to the Finals :smokin

[T Park]

Dang, I wish I could've posted that before TIMVP an Spurminator.

I would've looked decent :lol

[Bruno]

This trade looks very good







for Spurs. :smokin

[urunobili]

make it happen plz!

[Spurminator]

Dang, I wish I could've posted that before TIMVP an Spurminator.

I would've looked decent :lol


Nah man your takes are on the money in this thread.

[fyatuk]

If the Mavs add Kidd for those bit players, you are looking at the third Western conference rival getting way better, while the Spurs do nothing but get older.


Bit players? That's their best PG, 6th man, backup center, and a small forward who has been effective when given time. Plus 2 picks and cash apparently.

Kidd is not worth decimating your depth for.

[Streakyshooter08]

Get a Kurt Thomas.

go to the Finals :smokin

I would love to see Thomas in silver and black...

I still would not write them off completely. They would still have Kidd, Howard, Terry and Dirk... not a bad core. But it would definetly not help them much against the Spurs.

[T Park]

Nah man your takes are on the money in this thread.

I should retire after that compliment, thank you :lol

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

All that for Kidd? While I'll agree that need help at the PG spot, not at that price. Any title run this year means going through some combination of Phoenix, SA, and the Lakers. No way do you handle those front courts with Dampier as your only real center. The two big trades helped the Suns and Lakers get bigger up front, and Dallas would respond by weakening their interior?

And as other have noted, Harris is a major league pain in the Spurs' ass and Stack's cromagnon ass seems to find his shot just in time to play us as well.

[nkdlunch]

yeah, Kidd has pretty decent players in NJ and they suck. He is good but not that great.

Kidd's supporting cast in Dallas would not be much better. especially since Dirk chokes in playoffs

[Ghost Writer]

You guys have officially lost it.

You say matchups don't matter when I succinctly point out how the Lakers and Suns beat us player-for-player almost across the board, but now you want the Mavs to get All-Star Kidd for bit players, because you think it improves our matchups.

Incredulous.

[T Park]

I would love to see Thomas in silver and black...

I still would not write them off completely. They would still have Kidd, Howard, Terry and Dirk... not a bad core. But it would definetly not help them much against the Spurs.

Agreed they will be good, but their mismatches on the offensive end, wich KILLED, the Spurs, will be gone in one foul swoop.

As TIMVP said, come on Cuban, get the deal done.

[SenorSpur]

Agree a 100% with TPark here. This would be a FANTASTIC trade for the Spurs.
At this point JK is overrated. Parker will destroy him.

No kidding there, pardon the pun.

There's no question that Kidd is a HOF PG, but is he very overrated at this point in his late career - and the guy STILL CAN"T SHOOT. Remember when the Spurs imposed their "half-court" will on him and the Nets in 2003. Parker abused Kidd in 2003 and will abuse him again, should they meet in the playoffs.

Kidd is more effective in transition if he has guys who can run with him. Yet he will make the other Mavs MUCH BETTER. Which means guys like Dirk will get shots they've hadn't seen since Nash left the building.

On the other hand, Devin Harris gives Parker and the Spurs fits. Harris is relentless in his ability to get into the paint and usually suckers the Spurs into numerous "and-1" situations. His quickness is on par with Parker.

Bottom line is this trade will benefit the Mavs in most possible matchups - except one with the Spurs.

[T Park]

You say matchups don't matter when I succinctly point out how the Lakers and Suns beat us player-for-player almost across the board, but now you want the Mavs to get All-Star Kidd for bit players, because you think it improves our matchups

Rewatch the 06 playoffs, and look at the mismatches the Mavericks had on the Spurs.

Stackhouse couldn't be guarded because you had Howard and Nowitzki out there at one time, he scored at will on Brent Barry.

Harris drove to the hole at will because no one had a defender quick enough to stay in front of him.

Diop guards Duncan as well as anyone not named Rasheed Wallace and that showed in the 06 playoffs as well.

Come on ghost.

[timvp]

You guys have officially lost it.

You say matchups don't matter when I succinctly point out how the Lakers and Suns beat us player-for-player almost across the board, but now you want the Mavs to get All-Star Kidd for bit players, because you think it improves our matchups.

Incredulous.The Lakers and Suns have had more talent than the Spurs for like five years now. That's not exactly breaking news.

And yeah I'm guessing you missed that series in 2006. The Mavs were built to specifically beat the Spurs. If this trade happens, they will no longer be built to specifically beat the Spurs.

[T Park]

Heres what Dallas has done.

LA and Phoenix gets big.

dallas goes small.

Its almost like they've said "We can't beat em with bigs, lets try and outscore em"

They've gone about it the totally wrong way.

They should've gone and gotten Kurt Thomas, Udonis Haslem, or another similar big to match up.

Wrong wrong move.

[Spurminator]

You guys have officially lost it.

You say matchups don't matter when I succinctly point out how the Lakers and Suns beat us player-for-player almost across the board, but now you want the Mavs to get All-Star Kidd for bit players, because you think it improves our matchups.

Incredulous.


Your matchup analyses are based in a vacuum where you compare players individually based on overall talent.

If you watched the Mavericks handle the Spurs the last few years you would understand why these matchups are more relevant.

[Mr. Body]

Not sure how this helps NJ. Are these expiring contracts or something? Too lazy to look up.

The major available pieces are now gone. It was basically a given that Kidd was going to Dallas, and will probably help them. As everyone has said, this helps the Spurs a bit, as they seem to match up with them better. One thing people are missing, however, is that the Mavs were one of the worst teams in the league in creating assists, and this may change things quite a bit in that department.

[Mr. Body]

This helps Dallas beat the Warriors.

[2Cleva]

Dallas is actually doing what Phoenix did - going all for the ring now because of the young teams rising in the West (LA, Portland).

Can't blame them for trying.

SA won't stand pat.

[Spurminator]

Diop and George are expiring according to the article.

[SenorSpur]

For all Kidd's greatness, has anyone wondered why he's never won a championship? Also, why he's been virtually ushered out of every stop he's been?

Can you say OVERRATED?

[T Park]

IMO it helps New Jersey like I stated above.

Harris is a decent to good point guard with speed that will lead the break and can set up Vince Carter, and his speed gives matchup problems to the PGs in the east.

Diop adds a legit big man to New Jersey that they haven't had due to Kristic being hurt.

Stackhouse adds scoring off the bench on an offensive starved team.

George adds another body that can make shots and defend.

IMO New Jersey wins this trade, and becomes a tiny bit of a threat in the playoffs.

[Holt's Cat]

Did you just allege that Parker can guard Kidd?

Kidd can abuse him in the post.

You know who Kidd is, right?

What they are offering for him is crap.


:lol :lol

Oh man, if I wrote that I'd thought I came up with one of my better parodies of Casper's takes.

All one has to do is replace Kidd with the name of any other aging 'name' guard who made his mark last century...

Did you just allege that Parker can guard Payton?
Did you just allege that Parker can guard Nash?
etc...

[nkdlunch]

Not sure how this helps NJ. Are these expiring contracts or something?

they immeadiately upgrade the team a couple of grade levels.

[Streakyshooter08]

This trade would certainly concern me less than the Gasol trade. Whats up with all that blockbuster trades this year?

I would be a lot more excited if the Spurs would make a minor trade for somebody like K. Thomas, Tyrus Thomas, Miller or Nocioni.

[rascal]

So the Mavericks trading away three matchups that the Spurs couldn't guard, for one guy that can be defended easier by Parker is a bad move?

Pick up the baton Ghost your in the special ed race kid.

Stack isn't very good anymore. Its basically Kidd for Devin Harris. Harris is good but Kidd is the more experienced and better all around pg.

Good for NJ in the future. Good for Dallas now.

[T Park]

For all Kidd's greatness, has anyone wondered why he's never won a championship? Also, why he's been virtually ushered out of every stop he's been?

Can you say OVERRATED?


He wasn't their problem in 02 and 03, he played awesome in the playoffs.

His problem is the same as David Robinson's was before 99.

The team around him wasn't good enough.

[Buddy Holly]

Wow, did someone steal GW's identity? I remember having more smarts than he is currently displaying. First the "Can Barry be traded because he injured" nonsense and now this. How in the hell is trading those players for Kidd anything but a good thing for the Spurs?

Your rational is that Kidd is a great player so by virtue of some kind of GW mathematical formula this is a trade that makes the Mavs better. Right. Aside from the assists Kidd can give out, he's a terribly streaky 35-year old shooter. That does help the Mavs at all. Not to mention they'll lose two players that have helped them greatly when they played the Spurs.

[Mr. Body]

they immeadiately upgrade the team a couple of grade levels.

I don't see it. I'll have to check the salaries. The only way this makes a lot of sense is if they save money down the line for a re-loading. They're not doing anything with the roster as is.

[Bruno]

So Suns have trade Marion and Mavs will maybe trade Harris ....
:hungry: Parker will have some fun during these playoffs. :hungry:

[Holt's Cat]

Your matchup analyses are based in a vacuum where you compare players individually based on overall talent.

If you watched the Mavericks handle the Spurs the last few years you would understand why these matchups are more relevant.


It's not just that. He immediately discounts every Spur without "Duncan" on the back of his jersey while assuming that their counterpart is as good as ESPN told him they were.

Casper is such a historical curiosity, like Castro. He continues to rule Cuba, but it's the same old Cuba as 10 years ago. Just smells a little worse.

[T Park]

Stack isn't very good anymore. Its basically Kidd for Devin Harris. Harris is good but Kidd is the more experienced and better all around pg.

Good for NJ in the future. Good for Dallas now

I'd take stack over anyone they've got coming off the bench.

You look at their five after this

Diop
Boone
Jefferson
Carter
Harris


Thats a solid lineup.

the bench of Williams, Stackhouse, George, and whoever else, dunno who they have.

Thats a solid solid team for the east.

The west? It would get blown out, but the east, they are definately a playoff contender now.

[bdictjames]

Check the NBA forum. One guys says its done

[nkdlunch]

Cuban smokes crack!!!


ps Ghostwriter also...

[yavozerb]

The Nets trade All-Star point guard Jason Kidd and Malik Allen to the Mavericks for Devin Harris, Jerry Stackhouse, Devean George, DeSagana Diop, two first-round picks and cash, sources tell Tony Mejia of CBSSports.com.

[T Park]

Wow they don't even get Darrell Armstrong.

Wich, wouldn't have changed that at all.


YES!!!!

:elephant

Thank you Cuban for finally fing up.

[Holt's Cat]

So Suns have trade Marion and Mavs will maybe trade Harris ....
:hungry: Parker will have some fun during these playoffs. :hungry:


Exactly. Now what would make sense would be to see if they can find a better rebounding big in a trade with some combination of their expiring contracts. Stoudemire + a resurgent Vaughn don't leave much concerns as far as the backup 1.

[Ghost Writer]

Now matchups matter.

And Harris is nowhere near the player Kidd is.

Another contender gets better.

Spurs don't.

[SenorSpur]

He wasn't their problem in 02 and 03, he played awesome in the playoffs.

His problem is the same as David Robinson's was before 99.

The team around him wasn't good enough.


Dude still can't shoot.

Hell, he couldn't shoot in 2003 when the Spurs had a hard-on for him.

Yes he's a great player and has a definite impact on the game. But I could never get over the Spurs over-infatuation with him.

Seems to me that Parker turned out to be pretty good. After all, the Spurs have two more titles with Parker being a significant contributor to both.

[Holt's Cat]

Now matchups matter.

And Harris is nowhere near the player Kidd is.

Another contender gets better.

Spurs don't.


Another contender makes their team easier for the Spurs to defeat in the postseason.

Better run fast or the sky will land on you.

[yavozerb]

I will gladly take Kidd posting up on TP than HArris blowing by him and kidd's jumpshot is nowhere near automatic...As far as Stack and Diop leaving this is good news as well..This def. hleps the spurs

[Das Texan]

Two Western Conference teams that arent as big a threat to beat us in the playoffs now.


Tell me this isnt true?


Sign the dotted line Cuban.

[rascal]

I agree Kidd can't shoot but he is a great floor general.

[T Park]

I will gladly take Kidd posting up on TP than HArris blowing by him and kidd's jumpshot is nowhere near automatic

Agreed.

[Ghost Writer]

Another contender makes their team easier for the Spurs to defeat in the postseason.

Better run fast or the sky will land on you.
Let me get this straight...

You think LA, Phoenix and potentially Dallas will all be easier to beat by obtaining Gasol, O'Neal and Kidd respectively?

Kill yourself.

[VaSpursFan]

man, this is the best news that i've heard in a while. cuban, thanks for being you. i knew dallas would make a panic trade :elephant

TP torched JKidd when he was with the Nets and now he will do the same when JKidd is on the Mavs. One less western conference foe to worry about.

[yavozerb]

Maybe the spurs plan all along was to sit bakc and watch teams panic and dismantle their teams...Only team that has benefited in trades so far are the lakers and I would love to meet up with them in the playoffs just like old times..

[T Park]

Yeah Cuban returned to pre 2005 for with this trade.

This reeks of Jamison and Antoine Walker all over again.

Getting names by gutting the core of his team.


Nice job Mark :tu

[nkdlunch]

Maybe the spurs plan all along was to sit bakc and watch teams panic and dismantle their teams...Only team that has benefited in trades so far are the lakers and I would love to meet up with them in the playoffs just like old times..

:tu

Spurs will stay put. Beat everyone in the post season. Call it a day. Business as usual.

[Holt's Cat]

Let me get this straight...

You think LA, Phoenix and potentially Dallas will all be easier to beat by obtaining Gasol, O'Neal and Kidd respectively?

Kill yourself.

Look at who Phoenix and Dallas gave up. Which teams have given the Spurs the most trouble in the postseason over the last two years? This isn't rocket science.

Popd@mn.

:cooldevil

[clambake]

be careful what you wish for, spursfans.

[dbreiden83080]

Once i saw Harris was a part of this deal, i was relieved. Kidd is not what he was and Harris plays very well against the Spurs. Plus they gave up one of their key big men on D, bad trade for the Mavs.

[VaSpursFan]

Maybe the spurs plan all along was to sit bakc and watch teams panic and dismantle their teams...Only team that has benefited in trades so far are the lakers and I would love to meet up with them in the playoffs just like old times..

agree. and i think we can take the lakers in a hard fought 7 game series.

[DannyT]

Stupid trade..JK is pretty irrelevant at this age. Sorry, but it's true.

the dude only averages a triple double every game....i would say i haft to agree wit ya.... :donkey

[yavozerb]

So does Terry back up Kidd or move over to SG in the starting 5 for the mavs?

[Ghost Writer]

Look at who Phoenix and Dallas gave up. Which teams have given the Spurs the most trouble in the postseason over the last two years? This isn't rocket science.

Popd@mn.

:cooldevil
Look who they got.

Think Horry can get a couple more studs ejected?

Pray one of the 3 rivals gets upset in the first round again.

Who can point the Spurs to the nearest Lazarus Pits?

[nkdlunch]

Once i saw Harris was a part of this deal, i was relieved. Kidd is not what he was and Harris plays very well against the Spurs. Plus they gave up one of their key big men on D, bad trade for the Mavs.

Do you guys realize the trades keep getting bigger and bigger. and teams keep giving more and more away?

Next week, it will be Utah trading their whole starting 5 for Gilbert Arenas.

[MoSpur]

If its a done deal, then I am shocked. Kidd is good. Scratch that, he is great. However, Diop leaving Dallas is good news for Duncan and the Spurs. The reason Dallas gave the Spurs problems was because of how athletic they were. That is no longer an issue now that Kidd is there. Once again, if this is true, bad trade by Dallas.

[SenorSpur]

man, this is the best news that i've heard in a while. cuban, thanks for being you. i knew dallas would make a panic trade :elephant

TP torched JKidd when he was with the Nets and now he will do the same when JKidd is on the Mavs. One less western conference foe to worry about.

My points exactly!

:toast

Outside of the Spurs making a move of their own to improve their roster, this potential trade would create a matchup advantage for the Spurs over the Mavs.

[Ghost Writer]

Yeah, why trade a couple role players for an All-Star?

[smeagol]

GW and rascal on one side of the fence . . . pretty much every one else on the other . . .

[Holt's Cat]

GW and rascal on one side of the fence . . . pretty much every one else on the other . . .

Must be February.

[yavozerb]

NO one has even mentioned the 2 1st rd picks also given up by the MAvs...Damn, the Mavs just gor blindsided...

[Holt's Cat]

Look who they got.

Think Horry can get a couple more studs ejected?

He doesn't have to.




Pray one of the 3 rivals gets upset in the first round again.


They just got rid of a couple of the reasons they took the Spurs out in '06.



Who can point the Spurs to the nearest Lazarus Pits?

Oh damn, the Spurs aren't going to win the 'who can make the biggest panic trade' of 2008 award.

[T Park]

GW and rascal on one side of the fence . . . pretty much every one else on the other . . .


Who ends up being right 99% of the time?

Thats right, pretty much everyone else.

[ancestron]

What a bad trade.

[Road Warrior]

Man with all the trades going on in the west and if the Spurs STILL win the title that would really be some shit! :lol

[ancestron]

Man with all the trades going on in the west and if the Spurs STILL win the title that would really be some shit! :lol

It will be.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

So does Terry back up Kidd or move over to SG in the starting 5 for the mavs?
Either one hurts them. IMO they were at their best when Terry was doing the sixth man thing. He hasn't been as effective when they've used him in either of those roles.

[Streakyshooter08]

I read that the Nets plan to buyout Stackhouse and that he will resign with the Mavs. Is that a possibility? If that is true it would be a lot better trade for Dallas than initially thought.

[nkdlunch]

Man with all the trades going on in the west and if the Spurs STILL win the title that would really be some shit! :lol

that happens and NOONE will argue about the dynasty

[T Park]

NO one has even mentioned the 2 1st rd picks also given up by the MAvs...Damn, the Mavs just gor blindsided...


The Maverick's good drafting just took a hit there as well.

Even better :smokin

[rascal]

Its Kidd for Harris. The rest of the players involved are not difference makers. I like Harris but he is a year or two away from being the type of impact player that Kidd is now.

I'm not saying this makes the Mavs better than the spurs because the mavs are not good up front but I like that they are taking the chance and have the balls to pull off a major trade while the spurs sit on their asses and settle for an over the hill backup pg who will not make any difference.

[Road Warrior]

It will be.
:tu

[nkdlunch]

I like that they are taking the chance and have the balls to pull off a major trade while the spurs sit on their asses and settle for an over the hill backup pg who will not make any difference.

you might call it balls. I call it panic

[VaSpursFan]

I read that the Nets plan to buyout Stackhouse and that he will resign with the Mavs. Is that a possibility? If that is true it would be a lot better trade for Dallas than initially thought.

that's an interesting wrinkle...

[travis2]

He can if he sits out for 30 days...during which time other teams can make a play for him...

[rascal]

Who ends up being right 99% of the time?

Thats right, pretty much everyone else.

No way jackass. How many times did you pick the spurs to beat the lakers when they had Kobe/Shaq and were wrong.

[cash459]

did anyone read where it says that NJ is expected to buy out Stack's contract immediately and then if he waits 30 days, he can resign w/ the mavs? thats a little concerning to me.....but over all, i think that this is a good deal for the Spurs...

Ghost needs to lock himself in a room so that he doesnt infect the rest of the world with his STUPIDITY! :bang

[yavozerb]

I really cannot see a trade that would benefit the spurs at this time..Ya, Elson and barry have expiring contracts, but how does this hurt the spurs..Its a win win for spurs they keep these guys on the way to another title, contracts expire, and spurs have some cap relief for younger up and coming players, not to mention Splitter coming as well...This should be an exciting time for spur fans

[Streakyshooter08]

that's an interesting wrinkle...

It really is, that is why I wonder if it is valid.

[Ghost Writer]

Um, Dallas beat us in '06 because our big three were tired/hobbled and no one else stepped up.

It wasn't fvcking Diop and Harris for krissakes.


I like how NOW the matchups matter.

Wafflers.

[Joe Schmoogins]

Great trade for the Spurs. Tim and Tony will have field days against these fools.. What other bigs do they have besides Dampier? Once Timmy gets him in foul trouble, who else do they have now? Seems to me like they are going to have to sign a big now one way or another.

[hater]

you gotta give Dallas credit. Now they might make it out of the 1st round

[Joe Schmoogins]

you gotta give Dallas credit. Now they might make it out of the 1st round

not if they play us in the first round.

[smeagol]

I'm not saying this makes the Mavs better than the spurs because the mavs are not good up front but I like that they are taking the chance and have the balls to pull off a major trade while the spurs sit on their asses and settle for an over the hill backup pg who will not make any difference.

This is what kills you. Spurs not trading.

If it were for you, Manu would've been traded a long time ago. Probaby TP too.

[Joe Schmoogins]

i give them no credit for this trade. Absolutely a stupid move.

[hater]

Um, Dallas beat us in '06 because our big three were tired/hobbled and no one else stepped up.

It wasn't fvcking Diop and Harris for krissakes.


I like how NOW the matchups matter.

Wafflers.

wow you must have not payed attention that series. Dallas won because of the mismatches plain and simple.

Diop won the game 7 overtime for Dallas. Diop and harris were the difference in that series

[T Park]

I read that the Nets plan to buyout Stackhouse and that he will resign with the Mavs. Is that a possibility? If that is true it would be a lot better trade for Dallas than initially thought.

If true that sucks, but, still gets rid of two huge problems for the Spurs.

[rascal]

This is what kills you. Spurs not trading.

If it were for you, Manu would've been traded a long time ago. Probaby TP too.

No I would build around Parker and Duncan. Manu and Bowen would be gone.

[cash459]

Um, Dallas beat us in '06 because our big three were tired/hobbled and no one else stepped up.

It wasn't fvcking Diop and Harris for krissakes.


I like how NOW the matchups matter.

Wafflers.

are you kidding me?!?!? :wtf :wtf :wtf

Diop could D up Duncan like nobody's business and didnt need the double......Harris would blow by Parker like he was standing still..........

Whatever you're on, i would like some, b/c it obviosuly gives you some crazy thoughts, cant imagine what you actually see!

And while youre at it, why dont you change who your favorite team is...you are NOT a Spurs fan..youre a POSER!

[picnroll]

In following along the lines of the Memphis - LA trade, to fill in the hole left by Diop's departure Orlando will now trade Dwight Howard to the Mavs for Van Horn's dead, stiff body and a second round pick in the next millenium.

[T Park]

No I would build around Parker and Duncan. Manu and Bowen would be gone.

Genius, trade the best perimiter defender, and trade the clutchest best big game performer for the Spurs.

Great trade:tu


:lmao

good god.

[cash459]

No I would build around Parker and Duncan. Manu and Bowen would be gone.


what a moron! :bang

[Holt's Cat]

Um, Dallas beat us in '06 because our big three were tired/hobbled and no one else stepped up.

It wasn't fvcking Diop and Harris for krissakes.


I like how NOW the matchups matter.

Wafflers.

Sure, matchups matter, just not fictitious ones in which the Spurs players all suck and somehow moribund underachieving talents becomes some of the greatest players ever to have stepped onto the court.

[rascal]

Genius, trade the best perimiter defender, and trade the clutchest best big game performer for the Spurs.

Great trade:tu


:lmao

good god. What are you talking about? What great trade?

[Streakyshooter08]

If true that sucks, but, still gets rid of two huge problems for the Spurs.

As I understood it up to this point it is only speculation by some fans. No official word that Stack will be bought out.

[hater]

No I would build around Parker and Duncan. Manu and Bowen would be gone.

:lmao

so you would rather Spurs have 2 titles instead of 4??? great logic

[yavozerb]

No I would build around Parker and Duncan. Manu and Bowen would be gone.
Dude, you just lost all credibility on this site...Time to change your username..

[cash459]

What are you talking about? What great trade?

are you serious!? you just said you would get rid of them....what are you going to do Cut them?? this isnt playstation buddy!

[T Park]

What are you talking about? What great trade?


Trading Ginobili and Bowen?

That would be incredibly foolish.

You don't trade your best perimiter defender and your best clutch shooter and player.

Man what is with your hate on Manu?


First you wanted to trade him for the choking stiff Vince Carter, now for who? Tracy Mcgrady?

[rascal]

what a moron! :bang

Bring a little more to the discussion than this.

[cash459]

Bring a little more to the discussion than this.

remember what you type in your posts.....and bring better logic than bowen and manu would be gone....

youre a fool :donkey

[rascal]

Dude, you just lost all credibility on this site...Time to change your username..

I don't need credibility from you.

[Buddy Holly]

Wow, did someone steal GW's identity? I remember having more smarts than he is currently displaying. First the "Can Barry be traded because he injured" nonsense and now this. How in the hell is trading those players for Kidd anything but a good thing for the Spurs?

My mistake. I was thinking of Iceman. GW is the douche always obsessed with gangsta players and headbands. He disappeared long enough I totally forgot about who he was.

[cash459]

Bring a little more to the discussion than this.

and read my other posts, :donkey i DO bring more to the discussion.....

dont be mad b/c you have 1 on your side and the rest of the board against you

[hater]

Ghostwriter hasn't said shit in a while, probably rolling another bob :lol

[cash459]

Ghostwriter hasn't said shit in a while, probably rolling another Bob :lol

:lmao :lmao :lmao

[Indazone]

Incredibly stupid trade for Dallas. Now they got a big hole in the middle with Erica Dampier. Teams are going to outrebound those pussies like crazy.

[dbreiden83080]

Do you guys realize the trades keep getting bigger and bigger. and teams keep giving more and more away?

Next week, it will be Utah trading their whole starting 5 for Gilbert Arenas.

Very true, Dallas gave up a lot of depth here for Kidd, who is what 35, not what he was making a ton of money. Don't get me wrong Kidd is still damn GOOD but he was GREAT in 2003, that is not the Kidd, Dallas is getting.

[Buddy Holly]

Um, Dallas beat us in '06 because our big three were tired/hobbled and no one else stepped up.

It wasn't fvcking Diop and Harris for krissakes.


I like how NOW the matchups matter.

Wafflers.

What the fuck were they tired from? The Spurs went down 3-1. We were fucking lucky to take it to game 7. Well, thanks to a Terry nut shot and a Finley hot streak we were able to take it to a game 7.

[Spurfanindallas]

First time poster but the update on info is that stackhouse will be bought out and will probably resign with the mavs. The Dallas media is going crazy calling this a panic move.
Kidd does best in the motion offense where his passing is key the mavs don't seem to have the slashers needed to make this offense work.

[FromWayDowntown]

I think the biggest difference this trade makes for the Spurs is its impact on Tony Parker's ability to get into the middle and attack the rim. That's true because, if the deal is consummated, Harris has shown himself to be able to stay in front of Parker and to limit or deter Parker's penetration with his lateral quickness (and his willingness to flop to draw a foul). Perhaps even more significant is the loss of Diop in that equation, since Diop has shown himself to be at least a serviceable shot blocker who can force Tony into bad shots at the rim. Dampier isn't able to make that kind of a difference on defense -- I don't think he's the same sort of long-armed shot blocker that Diop is -- and that should help the Spurs to get some easier baskets against the Mavs. I also think that Diop has shown himself able to make Timmy work on the offensive end by making things difficult without a lot of double-teaming help. Again, I don't think Dampier has that same ability.

Kidd is the best player in the deal, but he fundamentally changes the way the Mavericks defend the Spurs and I'm not sure that change is one that benefits the Mavs (as so many others have said).

Meanwhile, has nobody suggested that the Spurs make a play for Diop this summer?

[Indazone]

Age Old saying and still holding true today. Dallas sits on top of the Division along with the upstart Hornets. "If it ain't broke don't fix it"

[yavozerb]

I don't need credibility from you.
How about starting with yourself and looking at yourslef in the mirror and saying "self, I will not say anymore stupid comments on SPurstalk for at least today"..That would be a good start.

[Road Warrior]

No I would build around Parker and Duncan. Manu and Bowen would be gone.
How the hell does this guy have a Spur?

[Ghost Writer]

wow you must have not payed attention that series. Dallas won because of the mismatches plain and simple.

Diop won the game 7 overtime for Dallas. Diop and harris were the difference in that series

The Mavs did not beat the Spurs in '06. The Spurs' big 3 were not 100% and beat themselves (nice foul on Dirk, Manu).

So now the matchups matter.

Good luck with Gasol and Shaq then.

[mardigan]

Very true, Dallas gave up a lot of depth here for Kidd, who is what 35, not what he was making a ton of money. Don't get me wrong Kidd is still damn GOOD but he was GREAT in 2003, that is not the Kidd, Dallas is getting.
Yea, their getting the Kidd who averaged a triple double in the playoffs last year.

[Buddy Holly]

Give me a break with the tired/injured bullshit. The Spurs just couldn't climb the wall, accept it pansy.

[T Park]

The Mavs did not beat the Spurs in '06. The Spurs' big 3 were not 100% and beat themselves (nice foul on Dirk, Manu).

So now the matchups matter.

Good luck with Gasol and Shaq then.

Yeah Harris driving to the basket at will and scoring 20 a game next to Terry didn't help the mavericks at all.

[T Park]

Yea, their getting the Kidd who averaged a triple double in the playoffs last year.

Plays defense like crap.

You forgot to throw that in.

[dbreiden83080]

Yea, their getting the Kidd who averaged a triple double in the playoffs last year.

You believe Kidd is what he was and what they gave up was worth it. You know that Harris plays great against the Spurs and he is gone as is one of their better guys to D up Duncan. Kidd is not what he was, he is a step slower, most people agree with this.

[pad300]

Meanwhile, has nobody suggested that the Spurs make a play for Diop this summer?
Make a play for him NOW!
Assuming this is official, Diop can be traded as an individual player in the next week. NJ is going nowhere in the playoffs - even with this trade they aren't taking BOS or DET. Not to mention Harris as PG adapting to a new system means they likely miss the Playoffs altogether. Diop is a UFA this summer. Do you think that we could get Diop from NJ for Elson's expiring contract and the raptors 2008 2nd + cash or something along those lines . Diop would be a major short term upgrade over Elson... We would also get his bird rights for this summer, which might be nice.

PS. I agree with just about everyone else. This trade makes DAL better against most teams, but worse against the Spurs.

[cash459]

Plays defense like crap.

You forgot to throw that in.

right on....and so what he averaged a triple double in the playoffs last year....he almost HAD to do that to keep his team alive....and that got him how many rings?? :wtf

[rascal]

Plays defense like crap.

You forgot to throw that in.

Kidd is a good rebounder and will get some steals but will get beat by quicker pgs like Parker.

I would not say he plays defense like crap since he does get a good amount of rebounds and steals and those are added possesions.

[SAGambler]

the dude only averages a triple double every game....i would say i haft to agree wit ya.... :donkey

In the East man, in the East.

You wanna bet those stats don't go down when he has to play a Jazz, Nugget, Laker, Spurs, Trailblazer, Houston team almost every night?

And even then he is only shooting 36 percent from the floor.

[nsrammstein]

Didn't Duncan average like 35ppg and 14rpg on 70% fg against the mavs in the 06 playoffs? what killed the spurs was going small against the mavs and try to outscore them. Don't forget that Dirk also torched the spurs along with Josh Howard and Jason Terry, now we get a playmaker who can create for others expect Dirks PPG to jump up about 5 more pts.

[cash459]

Kidd is a good rebounder and will get some steals but will get beat by quicker pgs like Parker.

I would not say he plays defense like crap since he does get a good amount of rebounds and steals and those are added possesions.

but he cant STOP parker....that is waht defense is....STOPS...if he cant slow down parker, how do you expect him to steal it from him??

[yavozerb]

Harris is 10 yrs younger than kidd and gets about 12 million less than kidd...Great trade by NEts

[cash459]

Didn't Duncan average like 35ppg and 14rpg on 70% fg against the mavs in the 06 playoffs? what killed the spurs was going small against the mavs and try to outscore them. Don't forget that Dirk also torched the spurs along with Josh Howard and Jason Terry, now we get a playmaker who can create for others expect Dirks PPG to jump up about 5 more pts.

just play the warriors again, and it doesnt matter.....you will CHOKE....AGAIN

[rascal]

but he cant STOP parker....that is waht defense is....STOPS...if he cant slow down parker, how do you expect him to steal it from him??

He will get some steals but also get beat at times by Parkers speed.

[nsrammstein]

just play the warriors again, and it doesnt matter.....you will CHOKE....AGAIN

Just like the spurs's ass choked against the mavs in the 06 playoffs?

[Buddy Holly]

Honestly, I'd like for this trade to go down just so it forces Peter Holt's hand to finally make a trade.

[Buddy Holly]

Just like the spurs's ass choked against the mavs in the 06 playoffs?

Coming back from 3-1 and losing game 7 in overtime isn't choking jackass.

Being up 2-0 in the finals and eventually losing 4-2 is FUCKING CHOKING.

Winning 67 games and being number 1 and losing in the first round to the number 8 seed is FUCKING CHOKING.

[dbreiden83080]

Just like the spurs's ass choked against the mavs in the 06 playoffs?

Spurs didn't choke, they got beat in an all time great 7 game series with a lot of shitty officiating. You got some of that in the finals, with the phantom calls that Wade got. Last year against the warriors was 100% a chokejob. Got beat in 6 games against an 8 seed.

[ludda]

The Mavs have always needed a floor general, someone with great court vision and passing skills.

I think it makes them better. Diop and Stack are inconsistent, had a good series against the Spurs, nothing will gaurantee that again.

And Harris is a great young player but will never be a top PG. Kidd is old.

I don't think the Mavs are done dealing. They know theyve created holes and since they pulled this trigger, Im inclined to believe they're going to get more pieces.

[yavozerb]

Honestly, I'd like for this trade to go down just so it forces Peter Holt's hand to finally make a trade.
Make what trade??Who is out there you think would help and what does the spurs have to offer that people want?

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Despite the recent trades Dallas still scared me the most out of the West. Kidd on the Mavs, losing Harris, Diop and Stack would make me less worried.

I was waiting for Cuban's knee jerk reaction to the other trades to come to fruition. It looks like that is happenning.

Mark should give GW a job.

[Buddy Holly]

What do the Spurs have to offer???


Expiring Contracts.

[TeyshaBlue]

In the East man, in the East.

You wanna bet those stats don't go down when he has to play a Jazz, Nugget, Laker, Spurs, Trailblazer, Houston team almost every night?

pffft. Weak. :rolleyes

11/03 Jason Kidd New Jersey Philadelphia 16 Pts, 14 Reb, 10 Ast 88
11/07 LeBron James Cleveland Utah 32 Pts, 15 Reb, 13 Ast 12
11/14 LeBron James (2) Cleveland Orlando 39 Pts, 13 Reb, 14 Ast 13
11/16 Jason Kidd (2) New Jersey Orlando 11 Pts, 19 Reb, 10 Ast 89
11/21 Jason Kidd (3) New Jersey Portland 12 Pts, 11 Reb, 13 Ast 90
11/23 Caron Butler Washington Golden State 26 Pts, 11 Reb, 10 Ast 1
11/23 Baron Davis Golden State Washington 33 Pts, 11 Reb, 15 Ast 7
11/24 LeBron James (3) Cleveland Toronto 37 Pts, 12 Reb, 12 Ast 14
11/25 LeBron James (4) Cleveland Indiana 30 Pts, 11 Reb, 10 Ast 15
11/27 Jason Kidd (4) New Jersey Memphis 12 Pts, 15 Reb, 12 Ast 91
11/30 Andrei Kirilenko Utah LA Lakers 20 Pts, 11 Reb, 11 Ast 3
12/05 Tracy McGrady Houston Memphis 17 Pts, 10 Reb, 12 Ast 3
12/09 Jason Kidd (5) New Jersey Washington 13 Pts, 10 Reb, 13 Ast 92
12/11 Jason Kidd (6) New Jersey LA Clippers 11 Pts, 10 Reb, 11 Ast 93
12/14 Kirk Hinrich Chicago New York 15 Pts, 12 Reb, 14 Ast 2
12/19 Caron Butler (2) Washington Chicago 29 Pts, 11 Reb, 10 Ast 2
12/22 Jason Kidd (7) New Jersey Golden State 15 Pts, 11 Reb, 12 Ast 94
12/26 Marcus Camby Denver Milwaukee 10 Pts, 11 Reb, 10 Blk 3
01/04 Jason Kidd (8) New Jersey Charlotte 11 Pts, 10 Reb, 12 Ast 95
01/05 Jason Kidd (9) New Jersey Atlanta 10 Pts, 13 Reb, 14 Ast 96
01/08 Jason Kidd (10) New Jersey Charlotte 13 Pts, 11 Reb, 12 Ast 97
01/23 Josh Smith Atlanta Denver 22 Pts, 12 Reb, 10 Ast 1
01/24 Baron Davis (2) Golden State New Jersey 25 Pts, 12 Reb, 10 Ast 8
01/25 Jason Kidd (11) New Jersey Denver 13 Pts, 11 Reb, 10 Ast 98
02/01 Brandon Roy Portland New York 20 Pts, 10 Reb, 11 Ast 1
02/04 Hedo Turkoglu Orlando Dallas 13 Pts, 12 Reb, 13 Ast 1
02/06 Dirk Nowitzki Dallas Milwaukee 29 Pts, 10 Reb, 12 Ast 1
02/06 Earl Watson Seattle Sacramento 23 Pts, 10 Reb, 10 Ast 1
02/08 Jason Kidd (12) New Jersey Charlotte 19 Pts, 11 Reb, 13 Ast 99

[nsrammstein]

Coming back from 3-1 and losing game 7 in overtime isn't choking jackass.

Being up 2-0 in the finals and eventually losing 4-2 is FUCKING CHOKING.

Winning 67 games and being number 1 and losing in the first round to the number 8 seed is FUCKING CHOKING.

The Ball dosen't like except in the 06 finals.....

[Spurfanindallas]

I don't think the Mavs are done dealing. They know theyve created holes and since they pulled this trigger, Im inclined to believe they're going to get more pieces.

I bet they go after miller or Cory M. from the clips that would give kidd someone to pass to.

[Buddy Holly]

The Ball dosen't like except in the 06 finals.....

What?

http://www.simonconsult.ch/images/handtwo.jpg

[FromWayDowntown]

Didn't Duncan average like 35ppg and 14rpg on 70% fg against the mavs in the 06 playoffs? what killed the spurs was going small against the mavs and try to outscore them. Don't forget that Dirk also torched the spurs along with Josh Howard and Jason Terry, now we get a playmaker who can create for others expect Dirks PPG to jump up about 5 more pts.

But the Spurs had to go small because their bigs (Mohammed and Nesterovic) couldn't guard anyone when the Mavs went small. It was outscore the Mavs by staying big and lose an offensive threat or outscore the Mavs by going small and playing as many offensive threats as possible. That problem doesn't appear to exist any more in that matchup, as guys like Oberto, Elson, and Bonner have proven at least serviceable in matchups with small ball teams (to say nothing of the fact that Pop has bothered in the last 2 seasons to play small ball lineups during the regular season to be ready for teams that try to go small against his).

I think, however, that in the 6 matchups since that playoff series ended, the Spurs have had their biggest problems dealing with Devin Harris, both as a guy who attacks the rim and as a guy who can defend Parker and cut the head off of the snake. That's not to say that Parker hasn't had games where he was effective, just that Harris has made it much, much more difficult for Parker to be efficient and to make plays that benefit his teammates. I don't know that Kidd is capable of having that effect -- when Parker torched Kidd in the first 3 games of the 2003 Finals and that stopped largely because Byron Scott moved Kerry Kittles onto Parker for long stretches of time.

[cash459]

Coming back from 3-1 and losing game 7 in overtime isn't choking jackass.

Being up 2-0 in the finals and eventually losing 4-2 is FUCKING CHOKING.

Winning 67 games and being number 1 and losing in the first round to the number 8 seed is FUCKING CHOKING.

EXACTLY!! Definition of choking: DALLAS MAVERICKS... on multiple occasions!

[cash459]

What?

http://blacklava.net/store/images/ISPEEN2102.jpg

:lmao :lmao

[nsrammstein]

I expect the mavs to go after Mike Miller

PG - Kidd
SG - Miller
SF - Howard
PF - Nowitzki
C - Dampier

[Ghost Writer]

Do matchups matter or not?

I guess just when it's convenient.

I can't believe your are happy the Mavs got the walking triple-double for an oft-injured PG and bench players.

[yavozerb]

What do the Spurs have to offer???


Expiring Contracts.
Does holding onto these contracts somehow hurt the spurs? Barry was playing pretty damn good and Elson at least know the system.

[nsrammstein]

So who on the spurs will guard Dirk when he and Kidd run the pick and pop ?

[pad300]

I expect the mavs to go after Mike Miller

PG - Kidd
SG - Miller
SF - Howard
PF - Nowitzki
C - Dampier

With what pieces?

[cash459]

I expect the mavs to go after Mike Miller

PG - Kidd
SG - Miller
SF - Howard
PF - Nowitzki
C - Dampier
you part of the FO??? where the hell did this come from!? and with what cap room?

[yavozerb]

So who on the spurs will guard Dirk when he and Kidd run the pick and pop ?
I would simply tell the spurs players to under DIrks screen and if Kidd wants a jumpshot so be it...His jumpshot can suck pretty bad sometimes

[yavozerb]

I guess Mavs fans forget that Kidd is getting 20+ mil a year...

[vander]

So who on the spurs will guard Dirk when he and Kidd run the pick and pop ?

I thought kidd had a shaky jumper, so make him shoot, go underneath. unless kid is the one picking and rolling

[TeyshaBlue]

I guess Mavs forget that Kidd is getting 20+ mil a year...
I guess spurs fans forget that Cuban is a farkin billionaire.

[mardigan]

You believe Kidd is what he was and what they gave up was worth it. You know that Harris plays great against the Spurs and he is gone as is one of their better guys to D up Duncan. Kidd is not what he was, he is a step slower, most people agree with this.
Harris is overated against anyone except the Spurs.
And taking Dirk out of the role as court leader alone makes the Mavs better.

[naico]

Wow thanx Mr. Cuban

Best Parker defender=Harris= gone---->in= one of worst Parker defenders
Best shooter against Spurs= Stackhouse= Gone------>in=an awfull shooter
Good Duncan defender= Diop= gone------>New secondary Duncan defender?----> Bass= Brainless against fundamental Duncan moves

[Radiosparks]

Wow! All those players, cash and draft picks. Are you kidding me? Not a great deal by any means.

[TeyshaBlue]

Harris is overated against anyone except the Spurs.
And taking Dirk out of the role as court leader alone makes the Mavs better.
I think the Mavs have been inflating Devin's value for the last couple of months....

Is there any credance to the thought that Kidd makes other players better due to his ability to distribute?

[Holt's Cat]

Meanwhile, has nobody suggested that the Spurs make a play for Diop this summer?


That is not a bad idea. It's not like the Spurs' 5 spot is set in stone. Oberto probably could continue to start but I wouldn't say he has that locked up. Presumably Splitter will be coming over but it seems a bit much to expect him to step into the starting role right away. Elson is gone. Diop does make a lot of sense.

[cash459]

I guess spurs fans forget that Cuban is a farkin billionaire.

what!?!? its called a salary cap...thats what 20+ million hurts....

[yavozerb]

I guess spurs fans forget that Cuban is a farkin billionaire.
Mavs, keep spending money and spurs will keep winning championships...Good enough trade for ya. PS almost forgot that finley says hello. :lol

[tav1]

While this trade would help the Mavs versus every other NBA team, this would massively help the Spurs chances of beating Dallas in the playoffs. Harris guards Parker well. Diop guards Duncan well. Stackhouse and George turn into Jordan and Pippen when they play the Spurs.

Kidd is damn good but the Spurs have multiple players who can guard him .... and Kidd can't really guard anyone on the Spurs outside of Bowen.

This needs to become official.

Fast.


Yes, fast and faster.

There is also this: Stackhouse will be bought out by the Nets and Diop is a free agent in the offseason. I suspect Stackhouse will seek to sign a Vet minimum with either Phoenix, San Antonio, Cleveland or Boston. Would any want the Spurs to sign him? I'm ambivalent.

Re Diop: If he could be had inexpensively, he'd be a decent rotation pick up in the offseason. Nothing to write home about, but at least he's worth looking at.

Phoenix and Dallas are worse now than 2 weeks ago. I think the Spurs still need to add a little grit up front, but this is a positive development.

[jrmp317]

So who on the spurs will guard Dirk when he and Kidd run the pick and pop ?
:lol the Spurs are just gonna go under the screen all day long. Kidd doesn't have the quickness to get by his man like Harris does, and his jumper is just as bad.

[vander]

what!?!? its called a salary cap...thats what 20+ million hurts....

it's a pretty damn soft cap, Isaiah was spending well over 100 mil a year until this season :dizzy

[yavozerb]

That is not a bad idea. It's not like the Spurs' 5 spot is set in stone. Oberto probably could continue to start but I wouldn't say he has that locked up. Presumably Splitter will be coming over but it seems a bit much to expect him to step into the starting role right away. Elson is gone. Diop does make a lot of sense.
With splitter and possibly Mahinmi on the roster next year I really do not see this happening

[implacable44]

I expect the mavs to go after Mike Miller

PG - Kidd
SG - Miller
SF - Howard
PF - Nowitzki
C - Dampier


who will they give up for Miller?

I think the Spurs apologists on the board are speaking out of fear and ignorance. Jkidd has played well with very team he has been on and made every team he was on better --- including the Olympic team. The Spurs wanted him a few years back for TP and if they would have gotten him -- they would have repeated already and you know it. Kidd makes people better and he makes plays. Mavs don't need him to shoot. He will set people up - give them the ball exactly where they like it -- right when they can score and in the right spot. Dirks numbers will go up - Howards will go up.
Spurs need to make a move or they will be in trouble come the post season. For all the hate responses I get --I still wish they would trade TP -- better do it before Duncan retires because when that happens TP will be exposed.

Jkidd makes the Mavs better and smart money says that should the MAvs play the Spurs in the playoffs - Brandon Bass will see a lot of time against Duncan -- just like Big Baby for the Celtics and proved to be quite effective.

Kidd
Howard
Dirk
Bass
Dampier
Terry
T. Hassell
Eddie Jones
J. Howard

still a darn good team. They will have roster spots to fill and I am sure they already have those deals in the works.

[Flight3107]

Stackhouse will be back with the Mavs in 30 days

[Holt's Cat]

Make a play for him NOW!
Assuming this is official, Diop can be traded as an individual player in the next week. NJ is going nowhere in the playoffs - even with this trade they aren't taking BOS or DET. Not to mention Harris as PG adapting to a new system means they likely miss the Playoffs altogether. Diop is a UFA this summer. Do you think that we could get Diop from NJ for Elson's expiring contract and the raptors 2008 2nd + cash or something along those lines . Diop would be a major short term upgrade over Elson... We would also get his bird rights for this summer, which might be nice.

PS. I agree with just about everyone else. This trade makes DAL better against most teams, but worse against the Spurs.

The only thing is, why would the Nets move Diop? Picks would be the most likely scenario, if they aren't interested in keeping him. But he would be useful to the Nets. Maybe the Spurs take back a smallish contract with some years left on it. Man, that would be a pretty sweet move though if they could pull it off.

[yavozerb]

it's a pretty damn soft cap, Isaiah was spending well over 100 mil a year until this season :dizzy
And it worked out well for them..

[TeyshaBlue]

what!?!? its called a salary cap...thats what 20+ million hurts....
he aint afraid of a luxury tax...besides, it seems that NJ will buy out Stackhouse which frees up some of his 9 million.

[Flight3107]

what!?!? its called a salary cap...thats what 20+ million hurts....


Yeah, because the Mavs are never over the salary cap

:dizzy

[Spurfanindallas]

There is also this: Stackhouse will be bought out by the Nets and Diop is a free agent in the offseason. I suspect Stackhouse will seek to sign a Vet minimum with either Phoenix, San Antonio, Cleveland or Boston. Would any want the Spurs to sign him? I'm ambivalent.


I think he'll resign with the mavs but I know he can't play for something like 30 days, but I wouldn't mind him on the spurs he's got heart.

[Ghost Writer]

That is not a bad idea. It's not like the Spurs' 5 spot is set in stone. Oberto probably could continue to start but I wouldn't say he has that locked up. Presumably Splitter will be coming over but it seems a bit much to expect him to step into the starting role right away. Elson is gone. Diop does make a lot of sense.
:drunk

Upgrading Oberto with Diop.

Wow.

That's like upgrading Vaughn with D. Stoudamire.

Wait.

Nevermind.

[Holt's Cat]

With splitter and possibly Mahinmi on the roster next year I really do not see this happening

Splitter is unknown. Mahinmi is more promise than anything right now plus I see him starting to get his minutes at the 4. Diop would be a very nice reserve 5. At a minimum you will have Horry and Elson leaving the bigman rotation this summer so there should be a spot available for an addition via free agency.

[Holt's Cat]

:drunk

Upgrading Oberto with Diop.

Wow.

That's like upgrading Vaughn with D. Stoudamire.

Wait.

Nevermind.


Upgrading Elson with Diop.

Think.

[Slohoop]

Stupid, stupid, stupid!

I wouldn't trade Harris for ten Kidds


Yes, Cuban is crazy

Go, Spurs Go!

[FromWayDowntown]

I think the possibility of this trade also highlights, perhaps, why the Spurs haven't done anything yet. It makes sense to me to be patient in this process (arms race) and let the other contenders make their moves and assess, at that point, whether a move is necessary and, if so, which move makes the most sense. Particularly since the Spurs' move won't be to go get a superstar sort of player.

Imagine if the Spurs had dealt away bigs to get a guard, only to find out that Shaq had ended up in Phoenix? or if they had dealt away guards to get a big, only to find out that Kidd had ended up in Dallas?

Let the dust settle -- we're still a week away from the deadline -- see what, if anything, might be necessary, and then make an appropriate move if you must. Typical Spurs.

[Ghost Writer]

Upgrading Elson with Diop.

Think.
Oh, in that case, where's the O'Brien trophy?

P.S.

Someone just said they would not trade Harris for 10 Kidds.


And I am the one who is blasted here routinely.

[SenorSpur]

Make a play for him NOW!
Assuming this is official, Diop can be traded as an individual player in the next week. NJ is going nowhere in the playoffs - even with this trade they aren't taking BOS or DET. Not to mention Harris as PG adapting to a new system means they likely miss the Playoffs altogether. Diop is a UFA this summer. Do you think that we could get Diop from NJ for Elson's expiring contract and the raptors 2008 2nd + cash or something along those lines . Diop would be a major short term upgrade over Elson... We would also get his bird rights for this summer, which might be nice.

PS. I agree with just about everyone else. This trade makes DAL better against most teams, but worse against the Spurs.

I agree with the suggestion of going after Diop. Outside of Tim, we don't have a frontline player that can offer any sort of reboundning or shotblocking presence. Which places was too much responsibility on Timmy to do EVERYTHING. In fact, we haven't had this since D-Rob left the building. Obtaining Diop, even if it's over the summer, would be quite a coup.

[implacable44]

on a funny note -- how was Nash too old a few years back but Kidd is worth all this ?? Nash makes his teams better too... and he can shoot.

[picnroll]

LA and Suns going big and Dallas going small ball to counter.

[fyatuk]

Stupid, stupid, stupid!

I wouldn't trade Harris for ten Kidds


I wouldn't either. What would you do with 10 Kidds?

I'd take a single Kidd over Harris, in the short term at least, but I certainly wouldn't give up most of my bench rotation to do it.

[vander]

on a funny note -- how was Nash too old a few years back but Kidd is worth all this ?? Nash makes his teams better too... and he can shoot.

yeah, they really did the NBA a favor by letting Nash walk

[Holt's Cat]

Oh, in that case, where's the O'Brien trophy?

San Antonio.

[Harry Callahan]

Stackhouse will be back with the Mavs in 30 days

I don't think Stackhouse could resign with Dallas after a buyout since he was just traded by Dallas. Could be wrong.

[Holt's Cat]

I think the possibility of this trade also highlights, perhaps, why the Spurs haven't done anything yet. It makes sense to me to be patient in this process (arms race) and let the other contenders make their moves and assess, at that point, whether a move is necessary and, if so, which move makes the most sense. Particularly since the Spurs' move won't be to go get a superstar sort of player.

Imagine if the Spurs had dealt away bigs to get a guard, only to find out that Shaq had ended up in Phoenix? or if they had dealt away guards to get a big, only to find out that Kidd had ended up in Dallas?

Let the dust settle -- we're still a week away from the deadline -- see what, if anything, might be necessary, and then make an appropriate move if you must. Typical Spurs.


I think the Spurs will make a move, if for any other reason because they don't project the free agent market in their price range to be that attractive this summer plus they feel that they can get a good deal with some combination of their various players with expiring contracts. Moving, say, Elson + a pick + cash for Diop would be a shrewd move.

[Harry Callahan]

Weird deal. Kidd has done well with finishers like Jefferson, Carter, Martin (previously).
The only guy that might fit that role is Howard. It's going to shake things up, but I'm not sure it's to Dallas' benefit.

[RobinsontoDuncan]

I just can't understand how this trade makes any sense basketball wise.

Devin Harris has been so important for Dallas when they go small.... Jerry Stackhouse has been huge for them in the playoffs, especially against the spurs.... Diop was so important in guarding Duncan-- you have to think he would have helped guard Shaq and Bynum.... this trade tells me two things, 1) The mavericks are looking at phoenix as the team to beat (but i guess they missed that whole shaq trade? and 2) they want to go smaller, i doubt Eric Dampier gets any burn in the POs.

wow.... that's two consecutive teams that just hurt themselves for the sake of making a dumb trade to match LA.

[maxpower]

The mavs are looking to matchup with golden state.

[Ghost Writer]

I think the Spurs will make a move, if for any other reason because they don't project the free agent market in their price range to be that attractive this summer plus they feel that they can get a good deal with some combination of their various players with expiring contracts. Moving, say, Elson + a pick + cash for Diop would be a shrewd move.
That's not a move. That's a mercy killing.


P.S.

Do you guys know who Jason Kidd is?

He's the guy that we sacrificed a couple years of Twin Towers potential to try to woo in the summer of 2003.

He gets triple-doubles like Devin Harris gets injuries.

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

:drunk

Upgrading Oberto with Diop.

Wow.

That's like upgrading Vaughn with D. Stoudamire.

Wait.

Nevermind.

Can you calm the fuck down and stop bitching? It seems that to you, the real NBA is like NBA Live. C'mon, let's bring Dwight Howard, Yao, Lebron, Kobe, Chris Paul, Paul Pierce, Chauncey Billups, Rasheed Wallace, Dirk Nowitzki and Dwayne Wade. Nevermind salaries, contracts, playing time, touches, defense, team work, match ups, chemistry or attitude. Every game is like the All Star Game.

Jeez.

[Holt's Cat]

That's not a move. That's a mercy killing.


P.S.

Do you guys know who Jason Kidd is?

He's the guy that we sacrificed a couple years of Twin Towers potential to try to woo in the summer of 2003.

He gets triple-doubles like Devin Harris gets injuries.


That was 5 years ago. Anyways, the Spurs went on to win a championship the following year without him.

[Holt's Cat]

Ghost's posts make sense if you imagine them spoken by Bill Walton in his normal sarcastic tone with cannabis smoke circling his head.

[adidas11]

I don't see how this trade helps Dallas out.

You give up your flexibility offensively for a point guard who doesn't have the legs to defend like he used to, is shooting 36.5% from the field, and really doesn't bring anything more to the table (other than rebounding and decent passing) that Devin Harris and Jason Terry already don't bring every night.

I like what another poster said earlier in this thread. With Stackhouse, Harris, and Diop, the Mavs were built to beat the Spurs. And even going into the playoffs this year, the Mavs would have been favored in my opinion to beat the Spurs in a 7 game series.

But that changes now. Sure, this might help the Mavs beat Golden State, but now I don't see them beating the Spurs (who are the defending champions).

And with the lack of big man depth (Diop), I don't see how the Mavs can beat the Suns/Lakers/Utah contingent.

The only thing that I can think of is that AJ decided that Stackhouse and Diop were of no use to him, and that Harris's inconsistency drove him up the wall one too many times.

I just don't see how Jason Kidd appreciably improves the Mavs this season and beyond.

[baseline bum]

That's not a move. That's a mercy killing.


P.S.

Do you guys know who Jason Kidd is?

He's the guy that we sacrificed a couple years of Twin Towers potential to try to woo in the summer of 2003.

He gets triple-doubles like Devin Harris gets injuries.

Weren't you shitting all over Kidd 5 years ago back when he was good?

[Ghost Writer]

Can you calm the fuck down and stop bitching? It seems that to you, the real NBA is like NBA Live. C'mon, let's bring Dwight Howard, Yao, Lebron, Kobe, Chris Paul, Paul Pierce, Chauncey Billups, Rasheed Wallace, Dirk Nowitzki and Dwayne Wade. Nevermind salaries, contracts, playing time, touches, defense, team work, match ups, chemistry or attitude. Every game is like the All Star Game.

Jeez.
Fvck you.

We've seen Shaq, Gasol and now possibly Kidd traded to our biggest rivals, while our team continues to tread water.

And you're fine with that.

[Holt's Cat]

Fvck you.

We've seen Shaq, Gasol and now possibly Kidd traded to our biggest rivals, while our team continues to tread water.

And you're fine with that.


That's 47 year old Jason Kidd and 88 year old Shaq. Whoop de fucking do.

On top of it Dallas just removed three Spurs killers.

[LazinessThievery]

What a ridiculous panic-motivated move this is:

1. Get an aging PG who can't shoot and whose D is overrated who would get slaughtered by the myriad of smaller quicker PG's in the WC like Parker, Paul, etc.

2. Give up a rising star in Devin Harris who's under a reasonable contract for a few more years for an old PG who's under contract for just 1 more year.

3. Reduce the big men behind Dirk and Damp to the undersized Bass and Howard and the defensively useless Fazekas when PHO just brought in Shaq and LAL just brought in Gasol and HOU still has Yao. You don't think Dirk and Damp are going to have to play a little more tentatively on D in an effort to keep out of foul trouble knowing there's Bass and little else behind them to guard a taller C if they foul out? Bass and Howard can't guard Shaq. They're way too small. They could probably guard one of his legs or maybe his kidney but that's it. Fazekas is a pylon with arms.

4. If we get Antoine Wright in a separate deal, who cares? He's a FA after the season, and we've just wasted a 2nd-round pick for a few months of a marginal player.

This is a knee-jerk short-term move that takes away from the future in order to supposedly give to the present, and what it gives to the present is of questionable value. This'll set us back years.

[pad300]

The only thing is, why would the Nets move Diop? Picks would be the most likely scenario, if they aren't interested in keeping him. But he would be useful to the Nets. Maybe the Spurs take back a smallish contract with some years left on it. Man, that would be a pretty sweet move though if they could pull it off.

Looking at NJ's roster, the answer is indeed picks. They move Diop because he's a UFA this season, and I think this trade says that they are playing for ping-pong balls. That means make Diop an asset for their future either as Cap-space, but the rules state he can only be traded as an individual player for 1 week, or not until after the trade deadline (ie after he becomes an FA). Therefore, with his ~ 2,000,000 salary, he ain't making a lot of capspace... Your are left with either picks and cash (which the CBA limits to a maximum of 3,000,000 in any given trade). From SA's end, I would consider either the raptors 2008 2nd, or a Spurs 2009 1st for a NJ 08 2nd swap, or something along those lines...Remember, dealing for Diop is only for a rent a player until this summer.

PS all this stuff about Crackhouse being bought out. I think it's so much wishful thinking by Mavs fans. Crackhouse is under contract until 09/10 for a value of $21,000,000 including this year. Either Crackhouse takes a HUGE discount or NJ doesn't have that kind of cash lying around. Partcularly when crackhouse is still serviceable as a player...

[DazedAndConfused]

My guess is there is another trade in the works for Dallas because this move doesn't make a whole lot of sense right now.

[Ghost Writer]

Weren't you shitting all over Kidd 5 years ago back when he was good?
He is still good.

I felt it was smarter to get a big man in 2003.

I had no idea it would be Rasho.

Anyway, I can't believe people here hold Harris in such high regard.

Kidd kills him.

[vander]

That's not a move. That's a mercy killing.


P.S.

Do you guys know who Jason Kidd is?

He's the guy that we sacrificed a couple years of Twin Towers potential to try to woo in the summer of 2003.

He gets triple-doubles like Devin Harris gets injuries.

and the correlation between triple doubles and championships is well documented

the Kidd Stat that blows my mind is 36% FG shooting, that is obscene!

[Holt's Cat]

Looking at NJ's roster, the answer is indeed picks. They move Diop because he's a UFA this season, and I think this trade says that they are playing for ping-pong balls. That means make Diop an asset for their future either as Cap-space, but the rules state he can only be traded as an individual player for 1 week, or not until after the trade deadline (ie after he becomes an FA). Therefore, with his ~ 2,000,000 salary, he ain't making a lot of capspace... Your are left with either picks and cash (which the CBA limits to a maximum of 3,000,000 in any given trade). From SA's end, I would consider either the raptors 2008 2nd, or a Spurs 2009 1st for a NJ 08 2nd swap, or something along those lines...Remember, dealing for Diop is only for a rent a player until this summer.


Right, which should keep down what the Nets demand in return for him. Spurs stalker/hater Rod Thorn is still at the helm though.



PS all this stuff about Crackhouse being bought out. I think it's so much wishful thinking by Mavs fans. Crackhouse is under contract until 09/10 for a value of $21,000,000 including this year. Either Crackhouse takes a HUGE discount or NJ doesn't have that kind of cash lying around. Partcularly when crackhouse is still serviceable as a player...

Exactly. The idea of him being bought out is just a rationalization for a bad move.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

Donnie Nelson's job search to commence in T minus 10...........9..................8................. ........

[Holt's Cat]

He is still good.

I felt it was smarter to get a big man in 2003.

I had no idea it would be Rasho.

Anyway, I can't believe people here hold Harris in such high regard.

Kidd kills him.


And Parker kills Kidd. Figure it out.

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

Fvck you.

We've seen Shaq, Gasol and now possibly Kidd traded to our biggest rivals, while our team continues to tread water.

And you're fine with that.

Guess you've missed Team USA latest attempts in the summers, or the 04 Lakers, or the Suns for the last 4 years...being overloaded with talent doesn't equal success.

[Ghost Writer]

and the correlation between triple doubles and championships is well documented

the Kidd Stat that blows my mind is 36% FG shooting, that is obscene!
You are right, dude.

Who could use a PG that routinely gets double digits in PTS, ASS and REB?

Keep Harris and the scrubs.

Kidd sucks.










Dolts.

[spursfan09]

I don't understand. Do they just feel pressure to make a trade after the Lakers or Suns?

[T Park]

Moving, say, Elson + a pick + cash for Diop would be a shrewd move

If they did that trade i'd be ready to go to war.

Diop can guard Bynum and Shaq.

Bring that trade on.

Doubtfull though that New Jersey would want to do it. I think they like Diop. If they don't they could get something better than Elson for him.

[Spurs Brazil]

Mavs best in West with Kidd?posted: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 | Feedback | Print Entry


All hail the Western Conference, which continues to grow stronger and stronger -- literally by the week.



First, the surprisingly mighty Lakers nabbed Pau Gasol. Then, the Suns brought in Shaq, and now the Mavericks are on the verge of putting together a big three of Jason Kidd, Dirk Nowitzki and Josh Howard.



All I can say is thank goodness Boston got Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen during the offseason. Otherwise, with all due respect to Detroit and Cleveland, the West-East divide would be intolerable.



With the Western powers gearing up for the most competitive postseason one conference has ever seen -- with potential first-, second- and third-round thrillers -- it shouldn't be long before Denver pulls the trigger on a trade for Ron Artest. (Go ahead Nuggets, part with Linas Kleiza.) The fact is, the Nuggets have to make the deal to even have a prayer of competing in May. That's what owner Mark Cuban understands about his Mavericks.



Dallas is not going to reach the Finals as currently constructed. Now, if the Kidd trade goes through, the Mavs will be as formidable as anyone. One of the greatest benefits of getting Kidd would be the mental toughness he'd bring to the Mavs. Let's just be honest here: The Mavs have not won a title the past two seasons because they have been mentally soft.



The collapse against Miami. The shocker at the hands of the Warriors.



Those were heart issues, not basketball issues.



Now, all that could change. Kidd is as tough as they come on the hoop court, prevailing as much because of his mental toughness as his physical gifts. If Dallas gets beat with Kidd on its roster, it would happen because the other team is better. Not because the Mavs got punked.



Would this trade make the Mavs the leading contender in the West? No. But it would put them on equal footing with the other Western powers, which couldn't be said yesterday.



As for the Nets, they would be doing the best they could. Devin Harris is a good point guard of the future, Richard Jefferson's still young, and I like their young bigs -- Nenad Krstic, Josh Boone and Sean Williams.



I also like Vince Carter, but with J-Kidd gone, his days with the Nets are probably numbered, too. The Nets are willing to send Carter to Indiana for Jermaine O'Neal. If O'Neal receives a clean bill of health within the next week, I've been told by league sources that there's a 70 percent chance of this trade going down.



It wouldn't make the Nets contenders, but it would keep them in the playoffs.



Man, for NBA teams, it's good to be in the East. But for NBA fans, it's good to watch the West -- which is better than ever.
http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3244282&name=broussard_chris&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fesp n%2fblog%2findex%3fentryID%3d3244282%26name%3dbrou ssard_chris

[T Park]

I also like Vince Carter, but with J-Kidd gone, his days with the Nets are probably numbered, too. The Nets are willing to send Carter to Indiana for Jermaine O'Neal. If O'Neal receives a clean bill of health within the next week, I've been told by league sources that there's a 70 percent chance of this trade going down.



Indiana.


Why?

[vander]

You are right, dude.

Who could use a PG that routinely gets double digits in PTS, ASS and REB?

Keep Harris and the scrubs.

Kidd sucks.


but the mavs are giving up 31 pts, 12 reb, and 9 asists per game to get him

[T Park]

vand its pointless, he doesn't accept reality.

[VaSpursFan]

So who on the spurs will guard Dirk when he and Kidd run the pick and pop ?

dood....any team in there right mind would instruct their players to go under the screen and give Kidd all the jumpers he wants. dood shoots 40% on a good day. i like JKidd for the intangibles he brings but he can't shoot worth shit.

[SenorSpur]

That is not a bad idea. It's not like the Spurs' 5 spot is set in stone. Oberto probably could continue to start but I wouldn't say he has that locked up. Presumably Splitter will be coming over but it seems a bit much to expect him to step into the starting role right away. Elson is gone. Diop does make a lot of sense.

The question is can Diop be had?

[fyatuk]

pffft. Weak. :rolleyes

11/03 Jason Kidd New Jersey Philadelphia 16 Pts, 14 Reb, 10 Ast 88
11/07 LeBron James Cleveland Utah 32 Pts, 15 Reb, 13 Ast 12
11/14 LeBron James (2) Cleveland Orlando 39 Pts, 13 Reb, 14 Ast 13
11/16 Jason Kidd (2) New Jersey Orlando 11 Pts, 19 Reb, 10 Ast 89
11/21 Jason Kidd (3) New Jersey Portland 12 Pts, 11 Reb, 13 Ast 90
11/23 Caron Butler Washington Golden State 26 Pts, 11 Reb, 10 Ast 1
11/23 Baron Davis Golden State Washington 33 Pts, 11 Reb, 15 Ast 7
11/24 LeBron James (3) Cleveland Toronto 37 Pts, 12 Reb, 12 Ast 14
11/25 LeBron James (4) Cleveland Indiana 30 Pts, 11 Reb, 10 Ast 15
11/27 Jason Kidd (4) New Jersey Memphis 12 Pts, 15 Reb, 12 Ast 91
11/30 Andrei Kirilenko Utah LA Lakers 20 Pts, 11 Reb, 11 Ast 3
12/05 Tracy McGrady Houston Memphis 17 Pts, 10 Reb, 12 Ast 3
12/09 Jason Kidd (5) New Jersey Washington 13 Pts, 10 Reb, 13 Ast 92
12/11 Jason Kidd (6) New Jersey LA Clippers 11 Pts, 10 Reb, 11 Ast 93
12/14 Kirk Hinrich Chicago New York 15 Pts, 12 Reb, 14 Ast 2
12/19 Caron Butler (2) Washington Chicago 29 Pts, 11 Reb, 10 Ast 2
12/22 Jason Kidd (7) New Jersey Golden State 15 Pts, 11 Reb, 12 Ast 94
12/26 Marcus Camby Denver Milwaukee 10 Pts, 11 Reb, 10 Blk 3
01/04 Jason Kidd (8) New Jersey Charlotte 11 Pts, 10 Reb, 12 Ast 95
01/05 Jason Kidd (9) New Jersey Atlanta 10 Pts, 13 Reb, 14 Ast 96
01/08 Jason Kidd (10) New Jersey Charlotte 13 Pts, 11 Reb, 12 Ast 97
01/23 Josh Smith Atlanta Denver 22 Pts, 12 Reb, 10 Ast 1
01/24 Baron Davis (2) Golden State New Jersey 25 Pts, 12 Reb, 10 Ast 8
01/25 Jason Kidd (11) New Jersey Denver 13 Pts, 11 Reb, 10 Ast 98
02/01 Brandon Roy Portland New York 20 Pts, 10 Reb, 11 Ast 1
02/04 Hedo Turkoglu Orlando Dallas 13 Pts, 12 Reb, 13 Ast 1
02/06 Dirk Nowitzki Dallas Milwaukee 29 Pts, 10 Reb, 12 Ast 1
02/06 Earl Watson Seattle Sacramento 23 Pts, 10 Reb, 10 Ast 1
02/08 Jason Kidd (12) New Jersey Charlotte 19 Pts, 11 Reb, 13 Ast 99

Notice how only 2 of those are against top level WC teams... (and one being a fluke with Hedo against Dallas).

I think you just supported the claim the West's superior teams will negate his triple double opportunities :p:

[T Park]

The quetion is can Diop be had?

If he could be had, I could totally go for him.

[Holt's Cat]

If they did that trade i'd be ready to go to war.

Diop can guard Bynum and Shaq.

Bring that trade on.

Doubtfull though that New Jersey would want to do it. I think they like Diop. If they don't they could get something better than Elson for him.


It would be ballsy..somewhat, but Mahinmi? Sure he's athletic, but it doesn't seem like he's progressing that much.

[FromWayDowntown]

I think the Spurs will make a move, if for any other reason because they don't project the free agent market in their price range to be that attractive this summer plus they feel that they can get a good deal with some combination of their various players with expiring contracts. Moving, say, Elson + a pick + cash for Diop would be a shrewd move.

My hunch is that a moving is coming, too. And I think it's most likely a move for a rebounding big guy with a reasonable contract and no real baggage in exchange for some combination of expiring deals, existing non-active assets, and cash.

I don't know that Diop will be that move, but I actually see Diop as a good fit here, if only because he would provide three things the Spurs need: (1) a good positional post defender; (2) a credible second shot blocker; and (3) a reasonably good rebounder. Add to that the fact that he's still a fairly young player and his fit makes all the more sense. In fact, Diop could very easily be a better version of Nazr Mohammed at a significantly reduced price. It's not the sexy, splashy move that Casper wants, but it seems like the sort of heady, shrewd move that the Spurs tend to make.

[T Park]

Yeah I'm not against trading Mahinmi if it means bringing in a Diop or Mike Miller or Udonis Haslem.

Splitter is the one IMO that is untouchable out of the young bigs.

[pad300]

If he could be had, I could totally go for him.

How far would you go? Mahinmi (in a separate trade like they did Antoine Wright for a 2nd), our 2009 1st straight up, our 2008 1st, Splitter?

PS. Ghostwriter may be right!!! Hollinger agrees with everyone else...

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=KiddDeal-080213&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba %2finsider%2fcolumns%2fstory%3fcolumnist%3dholling er_john%26page%3dKiddDeal-080213

And everyone here knows that Hollingers a pure stathead and therefore always wrong... (Not in this case!)

[T Park]

I actually see Diop as a good fit here, if only because he would provide three things the Spurs need: (1) a good positional post defender; (2) a credible second shot blocker; and (3) a reasonably good rebounder. Add to that the fact that he's still a fairly young player and his fit makes all the more sense. In fact, Diop could very easily be a better version of Nazr Mohammed at a significantly reduced price. It's not the sexy, splashy move that Casper wants, but it seems like the sort of heady, shrewd move that the Spurs tend to make.


Add that to hes been in for a couple years a very similar defense to what the Spurs run and he would be plugged in and not miss a beat. About as close to plug in a guy as you can get.

[T Park]

How far would you go? Mahinmi (in a separate trade like they did Antoine Wright for a 2nd), our 2009 1st straight up, our 2008 1st, Splitter?

PS. Ghostwriter may be right!!! Hollinger agrees with everyone else...

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=KiddDeal-080213&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba %2finsider%2fcolumns%2fstory%3fcolumnist%3dholling er_john%26page%3dKiddDeal-080213

And everyone here knows that Hollingers a pure stathead and therefore always wrong... (Not in this case!)


I wouldn't trade Splitter. I would trade Mahinmi and or Elson. This year's draft pick? Probobly. 09's?? I dunno, more than likely yes.

[ChumpDumper]

Anyway, I can't believe people here hold Harris in such high regard.

Kidd kills him.

Define "kill."


Jerry Stackhouse, Devean George and Devin Harris each added 14 points, with Harris scoring nine during the fourth-quarter run....

"I think winning becomes contagious and anytime you win the locker room is more soulful and a little more joyful, maybe not because it's the holiday, but winning can help,'' said Jason Kidd, who had 13 assists along with nine points and nine rebounds on Saturday.

http://www.nba.com/games/20061205/DALNJN/recap.html


Boxscore of the last game Harris and Kidd played. (http://www.nba.com/games/20070306/NJNDAL/boxscore.html)

[T Park]

Hollinger agrees with everyone else...


Hollinger also said the Spurs would win the ring last year, so hes right every once in a while, if by luck or not who knows.

[FromWayDowntown]

Add that to hes been in for a couple years a very similar defense to what the Spurs run and he would be plugged in and not miss a beat. About as close to plug in a guy as you can get.

1. I don't think that Diop to SA is likely at all.

2. One thing that would bother me is AJ's hot-and-cold view of Diop. I suspect that Pop is a bit more patient with players and a bit less likely to suddenly change lineups, but the fact that Diop has frequently lost minutes while playing for AJ might suggest that we mostly see the best of Diop and frequently miss the worst of Diop and that the worst of Diop isn't particularly pretty.