Minneapolis City Council To Disband Police Department

[vy65]

I’m all for ending sovereign immunity

[ElNono]

i dont think the whole "defund the police" thing means you have literally no law enforcement and just the wild west with the "community" protecting itself, but rather a reimagining of what the police should be responsible for.

police departments in big cities rightfully complain that they are being asked to solve too many of society's problems. in addition to blue collar crime, they are tasked with dealing with homeless situations, opioid crises, cyber crime, domestic disputes, mental health issues (LA County Jail is the largest mental health ins ution in the country). the idea is to slash funding but also responsibility, and re-allocating much of the funding towards social services meant to address those underlying issues, and more of an emphasis on community policing (ie people actually patrolling communities they are familiar with).

Camden NJ dismantled their entire police department in 2012 and rebuilt it from the ground up, with more emphasis on foot patrols, to great results.

Well now, we want to complain about anarchists here, not solutions that worked... keep up, plz

[ElNono]

looks like chicago already disbanded the police

Chicago just all last week:
Shot & Killed: 29
Shot & Wounded: 138
Total Shot: 167
Total Homicides: 32

Lets march and destroy for all of dem people!! #BLM!!!!

ding

[ElNono]

Since when is being in the top 10 most dangerous cities a great result? They were #4 as recently as 2017.
By the way thanks for the link and info Reck.

https://www.neighborhoodscout.com/blog/top100dangerous

this should answer your question.

https://www.tapinto.net/towns/camden...er-past-decade

[ElNono]

How do you know what the Minneapolis City Council means by “defund the police” when they admitted they don’t even know what it means yet as they don’t have plan in place at this time.

That's certainly the point I was making. Not sure why anybody is panicking yet.

[Will Hunting]

looks like chicago already disbanded the police

Chicago just all last week:
Shot & Killed: 29
Shot & Wounded: 138
Total Shot: 167
Total Homicides: 32

Lets march and destroy for all of dem people!! #BLM!!!!

Coondace Nelson must be so proud when her desciples post like this.

[rmt]

this should answer your question.

https://www.tapinto.net/towns/camden...er-past-decade

Sorry, didn't read the whole thread - just this last page. Am I missing something? This article mentions an increase in officers (and I assume the corresponding funding) - not "defunding" Or do politically correct terms like "community engagement/policing", "creating dialogue" make the increased number of officers more palatable?

“As far as the change that has taken place, the number one difference is resources,” Camden County Police Chief Joe Wysocki told TAPinto Camden. “Cops count and police matter, so by almost doubling the amount of officers on the street that has given us a much larger footprint to focus on community engagement and creating a dialogue with residents that has been missing for decades in the city.”

[elbamba1]

I have not been to the protests and have been unable to figure out specifics to what reforms are being requested. Here is a list of reforms I would support 100%

1. Body cams for police be mandatory.
2. Any discharge of a firearm requires immediate department internal review.
3. Any civilian killed/injured by police requires the officer(s) stand before a board of elected civilians for an administrative proceeding, which can be appealed to a district court.
4. Mandatory mental heath screening monthly for police officers.
5. Monthly requirements for continuing education.


I would like to hear some other thoughts on realistic reforms.

[Spurminator]

I have not been to the protests and have been unable to figure out specifics to what reforms are being requested. Here is a list of reforms I would support 100%

1. Body cams for police be mandatory.
2. Any discharge of a firearm requires immediate department internal review.
3. Any civilian killed/injured by police requires the officer(s) stand before a board of elected civilians for an administrative proceeding, which can be appealed to a district court.
4. Mandatory mental heath screening monthly for police officers.
5. Monthly requirements for continuing education.

I would like to hear some other thoughts on realistic reforms.

Immunity for recording police incidents.

I would also like to see protections put in place for people who intervene to prevent cops from using brutal force. It's not enough just to require fellow cops to do it.

And a big one... We need to reinvent how we enforce minor traffic violations. If we can send a citation by mail to someone based on a camera catching them running a red light, there's no reason a cop should have to physically pull someone over for a broken tail light or expired registration, for example. Scan their plates and mail them a warning or ticket.

[boutons_deux]

I have not been to the protests and have been unable to figure out specifics to what reforms are being requested. Here is a list of reforms I would support 100%

1. Body cams for police be mandatory.
2. Any discharge of a firearm requires immediate department internal review.
3. Any civilian killed/injured by police requires the officer(s) stand before a board of elected civilians for an administrative proceeding, which can be appealed to a district court.
4. Mandatory mental heath screening monthly for police officers.
5. Monthly requirements for continuing education.

body cams get turned off when they know they are going to "crime", and if left on, videos are not available to public

I would like to hear some other thoughts on realistic reforms.

All penalties paid by PD come out of the PD pension fund

Any officer who has x citizen complaints for abuse to be fired "for cause"

Any moving violation or DUI while off duty is a one month unpaid suspension.

Drug testing every month by an external lab

Fitness test, including max BMI or better overweight detection, time to run one mile, etc

All the above goes for Sheriff depts, too

I don't have any idea how to stop the collusion between prosecutors, county/city lawyers and cops

Rape kits must be processed within one week of collection.

no-knock invasions forbidden

SWAT raids only after a judge approves.

SWAT raids on wrong residences are automatic $5M penalty paid by PD pension fund

[elbamba1]

Immunity for recording police incidents.

I would also like to see protections put in place for people who intervene to prevent cops from using brutal force. It's not enough just to require fellow cops to do it.

And a big one... We need to reinvent how we enforce minor traffic violations. If we can send a citation by mail to someone based on a camera catching them running a red light, there's no reason a cop should have to physically pull someone over for a broken tail light or expired registration, for example. Scan their plates and mail them a warning or ticket.

I like this. At a minimum, perhaps a police officer should not be allowed to be armed for a traffic/street stop. Their weapon must stay in the vehicle.

[Spurminator]

I like this. At a minimum, perhaps a police officer should not be allowed to be armed for a traffic/street stop. Their weapon must stay in the vehicle.

I think the argument will be you have to allow them to defend against the possibility of violence against them. As long as we have relaxed laws against people carrying guns in their car, I don't think you can prevent police from an even fight. The ideal is they don't have to get out of their car (or even stop) in the first place.

[boutons_deux]

‘I can’t breathe’:

New video evidence shows

cops killing two other Black men as they begged for life

KVUE-TV has been seeking records and evidence in the March 28, 2019, killing of 40-year-old Javier Ambler in Williamson County, where a sheriff’s deputy tried to stop him for failing to dim the headlights of his SUV to oncoming traffic.

Records show that deputies used Tasers on Ambler at least three times as the father of two told them he had a heart condition and could not breathe,

but Williamson County Sheriff’s Office has tried to block information from release since reporters first asked in February.

KTUL-TV reports on another new video evidence from another police killing, in May 2019 in Oklahoma City, which Black Lives Matter had demanded as part of its ongoing protests of Floyd’s killing.

The video shows Derrick Scott take off running from officers trying to arrest him, but they catch up and tackle the Black man.

Scott tells officers he had been smoking PCP and was experiencing medical distress, but police remain on top of him — even after he tells them he cannot breathe.

An ambulance arrives and takes him to a nearby hospital, where he was pronounced dead.

https://www.rawstory.com/2020/06/i-cant-breathe-new-video-evidence-shows-cops-killing-two-other-black-men-as-they-begged-for-life/?utm_source=&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=4737

[RandomGuy]

I’m all for ending sovereign immunity

sovereign or qualified? (not sure if there is a specific difference, out of my expertise)

[spurraider21]

I think the argument will be you have to allow them to defend against the possibility of violence against them. As long as we have relaxed laws against people carrying guns in their car, I don't think you can prevent police from an even fight. The ideal is they don't have to get out of their car (or even stop) in the first place.

i know that LAPD cadets in the academy are all shown quite a bit of footage of officers who were killed during traffic stops as a lesson for them to always be alert

[TSA]

Immunity for recording police incidents.

I would also like to see protections put in place for people who intervene to prevent cops from using brutal force. It's not enough just to require fellow cops to do it.

And a big one... We need to reinvent how we enforce minor traffic violations. If we can send a citation by mail to someone based on a camera catching them running a red light, there's no reason a cop should have to physically pull someone over for a broken tail light or expired registration, for example. Scan their plates and mail them a warning or ticket.

Agreed on all except protections for people who intervene to prevent cops from using brutal force. That's opening up a can of worms and would probably get more citizens killed or beaten.

[spurraider21]

Agreed on all except protections for people who intervene to prevent cops from using brutal force. That's opening up a can of worms and would probably get more citizens killed or beaten.

i agree with this tbh. and people could hear noise, walk into a situation where the police is tackling a guy, and they have no context to what happened, believe that excessive force is being applied, and then tackle the cop. you'd also be giving the green light for cops to be mobbed if the mob perceives the force as excessive. i dont think you can have that but perhaps if its clearly deadly force? i dont know. but the spectators watching floyd get killed probably felt like a pack of antelope watching a pack of lions kill another antelope

in addition to immunity for recording police, any officer who stops a recording from taking place (we've seen many instances where cops swipe away at peoples phones, for example) should be automatically disciplined in some manner

[BSfromTX]

All penalties paid by PD come out of the PD pension fund

Any officer who has x citizen complaints for abuse to be fired "for cause"

Any moving violation or DUI while off duty is a one month unpaid suspension.

Drug testing every month by an external lab

Fitness test, including max BMI or better overweight detection, time to run one mile, etc

All the above goes for Sheriff depts, too

I don't have any idea how to stop the collusion between prosecutors, county/city lawyers and cops

Rape kits must be processed within one week of collection.

no-knock invasions forbidden

SWAT raids only after a judge approves.

SWAT raids on wrong residences are automatic $5M penalty paid by PD pension fund

I would maybe say proven and justified complaints. Good list overall but DUI should be punished a bit more IMO

[spurraider21]

an issue with traffic citations is if somebody is running a red light, speeding, or otherwise driving in a dangerous way, its not good policy to let that person keep doing what they're doing only to be mailed a ticket. you have to stop them for safety of others. i know when i've been pulled over for speeding i tend to drive very safely for at least some period of time following that

[SnakeBoy]

We need to reinvent how we enforce minor traffic violations. If we can send a citation by mail to someone based on a camera catching them running a red light, there's no reason a cop should have to physically pull someone over for a broken tail light or expired registration, for example. Scan their plates and mail them a warning or ticket.

It's like your almost to the point of wanting to stop using the police as a means of generating revenue. Not quite there but on the path.

[spurraider21]

It's like your almost to the point of wanting to stop using the police as a means of generating revenue. Not quite there but on the path.

dont see how that's the takeaway. he's didnt suggest citations needed to be scaled back, but rather they should just be mailed instead of pulling people over to hand it to them.

the other reason for pulling over is to get a signature confirming that you've received the ticket... but then again i dont have a clue about whether or not mailed tickets get ignored at a particular rate compared to tickets signed for

[Spurminator]

an issue with traffic citations is if somebody is running a red light, speeding, or otherwise driving in a dangerous way, its not good policy to let that person keep doing what they're doing only to be mailed a ticket. you have to stop them for safety of others. i know when i've been pulled over for speeding i tend to drive very safely for at least some period of time following that

Yeah I think extreme speeding or dangerous driving would have to be an exception. We still have to have a real time solution for drunk drivers. But 10 miles over speed limit? Mail a warning or citation.

[Spurminator]

It's like your almost to the point of wanting to stop using the police as a means of generating revenue. Not quite there but on the path.

dont see how that's the takeaway. he's didnt suggest citations needed to be scaled back, but rather they should just be mailed instead of pulling people over to hand it to them.

the other reason for pulling over is to get a signature confirming that you've received the ticket... but then again i dont have a clue about whether or not mailed tickets get ignored at a particular rate compared to tickets signed for

I probably would scale back citations, tbh. I could see a system where your plate is entered and you receive a notice giving you 30 days to fix the issue and submit proof. If you fail to do so, you get a citation.

But the real point is to reduce dangerous interactions, profiling, unwarranted searches and all of the other things that go along with it.

[Spurminator]

i agree with this tbh. and people could hear noise, walk into a situation where the police is tackling a guy, and they have no context to what happened, believe that excessive force is being applied, and then tackle the cop. you'd also be giving the green light for cops to be mobbed if the mob perceives the force as excessive. i dont think you can have that but perhaps if its clearly deadly force? i dont know. but the spectators watching floyd get killed probably felt like a pack of antelope watching a pack of lions kill another antelope

in addition to immunity for recording police, any officer who stops a recording from taking place (we've seen many instances where cops swipe away at peoples phones, for example) should be automatically disciplined in some manner

Yeah I don't know a perfect solution for this, it would always have to be argued after the fact and it's probably hard to prove excessive force was being used. It would just be nice to have that additional layer of caution hopefully giving officers something else to consider before they put a choke hold on a suspect.

[vy65]

sovereign or qualified? (not sure if there is a specific difference, out of my expertise)

I think qualified immunity is a specific form of sovereign immunity. I'm all for eliminating all forms of governmental immunity, but particularly with respect to the police. I was happy to see that as a part of the Dem's package.