Game Thread: 2020 Preseason Game 2: Spurs at Rockets 7 PM CST (20:00 EST, 03:00 RIGA TIME)

[Dejounte]

Aldridge is awkward trying to figure out how to balance spacing the floor and still getting touches. I don't think he'll be settled in for a while.

Lyles has played poorly. But the team didn't draft or trade for a PF, so he's going to start. I wanted the team to draft a guy, but what can you do?

I think Murray was a huge part of the second- and third-quarter offense. He had five TOs in 17:09 stretch, and the Spurs went from up five to down four. I don't think he's nearly as blameless as you seem to think.

Yeah, he's not blameless. At least two or three of those TOs were from his teammates fumbling the ball from his easy passes though.

[gambit1990]

if harden plays then how many points do the rockets win by?

[SAGirl]

I don't know. Criticism like this is better after the first game, not today's. Just odd that Murray is the target tonight vs the other issues that were more glaring: Aldridge being a step slow, Lyles losing all his talent Space Jam style, the discombobulated offense in the 2nd and 3rd. Somehow DJ, who did not play terrible, is the focus.

Dude let me see people’s opinions raw. It’s fine.

[Dejounte]

Clearly not a game they were trying to win, especially when they trotted out three point guard size players in the third.

[Dejounte]

Dude let me see people’s opinions raw. It’s fine.

Not telling people to stop. When you let people's go unchecked, unchallenged, what a boring forum that would be to read. It would be a big wave of the same opinions.

If you're bothered, put me on ignore.

[RD2191]

Oh man, the chickens have come home to roost for me.

[GAustex]

Makes too much sense (Vassell for me). Expect it ten games remaining in the season when the team is lottery bound.

You switched your picture-i already miss Carroll's canary outfit!!

[Floyd Pacquiao]

Dude is not established enough to demand a position, even with his contract.

If Pop puts him on the bench, he'll come off the bench. Otherwise, GTFO

I do remember him pouting last season when he came off the bench a few games last season. Look like he checked out a little mentally as well

[Chinook]

Yeah, he's not blameless. At least two or three of those TOs were from his teammates fumbling the ball from his easy passes though.

My thing is that this is clearly a permanent issue with Murray. You're correct that he didn't have the same level of bad game that he had before. But unlike most of the issues that should be worked through once guys come back and settle into the real rotation, DeJounte will play like this for the rest of his time as a Spur. Yes, there are times, especially with DeRozan, that he'll trend more toward his garbage-man role and grade out better. But the erratic handles, lack of touch passing and tendency to try to do too much keep rearing their ugly heads, and if anything, the decent stretches only serve to set up the bad stretches because he feels more confident after seeing some success. Once White gets back, it'll look even worse because the opportunity cost will be higher.

I think Murray should be on the bench as his permanent spot. I think with Vassell then Johnson, he can be good there. But in times of injury, I don't want him to move into the starting-PG role. I wanted the team to sign a vet PG to do that, but they drafted Jones, so it's his go. All the starting PG has to do is let DMDR, LMA and hopefully Walker do their things. White can do that while also adding in good defense and steady offense. Murray can't do that because he's so inconsistent. Hopefully Jones can just be steady and get everyone into their sets and guard his position while the other guys do the heavy lifting. That's why I'd consider starting him. It's not that Murray is so awful that Tre has to be better. It's that Murray is a really bad fit with anyone else who needs the ball to score. Starting with basically everyone who needs the ball is a bad recipe.

[SAGirl]

Thanks for all the unfiltered and spontaneous opinions btw. I missed the game and as much as I appreciate Timvp grades his reviews are extremely vanilla with the general impression that most everyone always plays at least average and often above, which doesn’t square with the results in the game sometimes. Anyways I appreciate him but I want to have variety of opinions. Will only be watching games on nbatv (my cable offer carries it) and nationally TV games so I’d rather people just be spontaneous

[SAGirl]

Not telling people to stop. When you let people's go unchecked, unchallenged, what a boring forum that would be to read. It would be a big wave of the same opinions.

If you're bothered, put me on ignore.

No it’s when you are telling people to not jump to conclusions or whatever. I want to see what they thought based on what they saw. Then see your opinions if it applies and that’s fine, but you shutting people down bc it’s not appropriate or whatever it’s like wtf? What Am I here for? Do fans have to have so many caveats or just be fans

[Chinook]

No it’s when you are telling people to not jump to conclusions or whatever. I want to see what they thought based on what they saw. Then see your opinions if it applies and that’s fine, but you shutting people down bc it’s not appropriate or whatever it’s like wtf? What Am I here for? Do fans have to have so many caveats or just be fans

But I think it takes both. You and Dejounte both know I'm not going to stop giving my opinion just because he critiques it. I think by seeing my opinion with his you get a better sense of the nuance in Murray's performance than you would if I'd said my piece and he just rebutted it without mentioning that he thinks I should've waited until a different game. There are definitely people on this forum who try to gatekeep the fandom or who want to gatekeep criticism by saying things like "sniffers" and "casuals". Dejounte's not one of them.

This is gonna be a long and bumpy season, SAG. We gotta buckle up.

[Dejounte]

My thing is that this is clearly a permanent issue with Murray. You're correct that he didn't have the same level of bad game that he had before. But unlike most of the issues that should be worked through once guys come back and settle into the real rotation, DeJounte will play like this for the rest of his time as a Spur. Yes, there are times, especially with DeRozan, that he'll trend more toward his garbage-man role and grade out better. But the erratic handles, lack of touch passing and tendency to try to do too much keep rearing their ugly heads, and if anything, the decent stretches only serve to set up the bad stretches because he feels more confident after seeing some success. Once White gets back, it'll look even worse because the opportunity cost will be higher.

I think Murray should be on the bench as his permanent spot. I think with Vassell then Johnson, he can be good there. But in times of injury, I don't want him to move into the starting-PG role. I wanted the team to sign a vet PG to do that, but they drafted Jones, so it's his go. All the starting PG has to do is let DMDR, LMA and hopefully Walker do their things. White can do that while also adding in good defense and steady offense. Murray can't do that because he's so inconsistent. Hopefully Jones can just be steady and get everyone into their sets and guard his position while the other guys do the heavy lifting. That's why I'd consider starting him. It's not that Murray is so awful that Tre has to be better. It's that Murray is a really bad fit with anyone else who needs the ball to score. Starting with basically everyone who needs the ball is a bad recipe.

I think the difference between me and you is I'm still giving players under 30 some allowance to improve. I read this:

"But the erratic handles, lack of touch passing and tendency to try to do too much"

And feel like these are things Murray can improve upon, just like how I feel White has areas he can improve even though he's already 26.

I'm neither for or against Murray coming off the bench. I just want the best rotations that can win.

[SAGirl]

But I think it takes both. You and Dejounte both know I'm not going to stop giving my opinion just because he critiques it. I think by seeing my opinion with his you get a better sense of the nuance in Murray's performance than you would if I'd said my piece and he just rebutted it without mentioning that he thinks I should've waited until a different game. There are definitely people on this forum who try to gatekeep the fandom or who want to gatekeep criticism by saying things like "sniffers" and "casuals". Dejounte's not one of them.

This is gonna be a long and bumpy season, SAG. We gotta buckle up.

I am following this with interest and thankful that it’s interesting but I do feel that you are one of the most opinionated (which I like about you and others) other people are not as much and I am interested in them too.

[Chinook]

I think the difference between me and you is I'm still giving players under 30 some allowance to improve. I read this:

"But the erratic handles, lack of touch passing and tendency to try to do too much"

And feel like these are things Murray can improve upon, just like how I feel White has areas he can improve even though he's already 26.

I'm neither for or against Murray coming off the bench. I just want the best rotations that can win.

I think there's a difference between possible improvement and improvement that can be reasonably expected. I think it's possible for Murray to get better handles, but I wouldn't expect it like I'd expect say Jones to get better at shooting. I do think simply dialing down his ego would help Murray. Like even if his handles don't improve, if he doesn't try to cross over guys, he wouldn't lose the ball as much. If he didn't try to make tight passes as often, his lack of touch wouldn't be that big of an issue. I think with the right at ude, he'd be a legit positive player. I just don't think that at ude can get fixed on the Spurs, and that's why I can't expect him to improve.

Off the bench, if Murray plays like a better version of his rookie self, he'd really help the team. But that guy doesn't fit the SL, and this wannabe-Crawford version sure doesn't.

[Dejounte]

No it’s when you are telling people to not jump to conclusions or whatever. I want to see what they thought based on what they saw. Then see your opinions if it applies and that’s fine, but you shutting people down bc it’s not appropriate or whatever it’s like wtf? What Am I here for? Do fans have to have so many caveats or just be fans

Your desire for "variety of opinions" should just be re-worded as "I want everything negative". I've been reading your posts over the years, and boy, you have really changed into a big ball of cynicism. I understand, the Spurs have disappointed you so much, that you just want to view everything in a negative light since it hurts less as a fan to have low expectations. But I think it's just sad.

Sounds like the types of opinions you prefer are

Lol murray

lyles sucks

Haha sammich

Oh murray not a pg

... Great. That's what you prefer. These are the vanilla takes to me, not timvp's.

Anyway, put me on ignore if you feel like I'm shutting people down but realize you only feel I'm shutting people down because I'm sprinkling a little positivity into the situation and it makes your stomach churn because you've grown so bitter as a Spurs fan.

[SAGirl]

Your desire for "variety of opinions" should just be re-worded as "I want everything negative". I've been reading your posts over the years, and boy, you have really changed into a big ball of cynicism. I understand, the Spurs have disappointed you so much, that you just want to view everything in a negative light since it hurts less as a fan to have low expectations. But I think it's just sad.

Sounds like the types of opinions you prefer are

Lol murray

lyles sucks

Haha sammich

Oh murray not a pg

... Great. That's what you prefer. These are the vanilla takes to me, not timvp's.

Anyway, put me on ignore if you feel like I'm shutting people down but realize you only feel I'm shutting people down because I'm sprinkling a little positivity into the situation and it makes your stomach churn because you've grown so bitter as a Spurs fan.

Ehhh you haven’t annoyed me b4 and I don’t see a reason to ignore you. When you are more calm you will understand my point or not. Doesn’t matter. I’d rather see more spontaneous feedback and not less.

[Atl Spur]

Your desire for "variety of opinions" should just be re-worded as "I want everything negative". I've been reading your posts over the years, and boy, you have really changed into a big ball of cynicism. I understand, the Spurs have disappointed you so much, that you just want to view everything in a negative light since it hurts less as a fan to have low expectations. But I think it's just sad.

Sounds like the types of opinions you prefer are

Lol murray

lyles sucks

Haha sammich

Oh murray not a pg

... Great. That's what you prefer. These are the vanilla takes to me, not timvp's.

Anyway, put me on ignore if you feel like I'm shutting people down but realize you only feel I'm shutting people down because I'm sprinkling a little positivity into the situation and it makes your stomach churn because you've grown so bitter as a Spurs fan.

Big dog, first the fat boys break up now this��

[Prime BEEF]

I do remember him pouting last season when he came off the bench a few games last season. Look like he checked out a little mentally as well

If he’s permanently moved to 2nd string he will definitely check out. Need to keep him in starting lineup and then trade him. If he’s benched his stock will tank

[tim_duncan_fan]

Starting lineup: White, Vassell, DD, Luka after switching Tim's brain into his body, LaMarcus

Bench bucket getters coming in to run up the score:

DM/Patty, Lonnie, Keldon, Rudy, Jak


Luka being a disinterested POS is really ing us right now.

[C-Dub]

DJM is going to be okay but most his on court time is with LMA. LMA is awful and has not been good for the Spurs except his 1st year with TD and that was solely because of TD. Imagine playing with a guy (LMA) whom can never and I mean never find the cutter cutting to the basket for an easy layup or nice dunk. He's been that way since the day he arrived. He has no awareness just catches the ball and becomes tunnel vision. TD would almost always notice the cutter are a nice pass out to someone for an open shot or pass that leads to another pass for an open shot. LMA is not good for the Spurs and DJM gets most the blame. DJM made a couple great passes to LMA and he just fumbled them away. Very low IQ player in LMA and Gay. DDR plays no defense. Our vets are not allstar caliber at this stage of their career and will not lead the Spurs to anything. There is a place for Patty on the team just not jacking up so many shots unless he's hot. Spurs will be okay in about 2 to 3 years, once KJ, White, LW4, DJM, Vassell and Poeltl gets more experience and not have to play with LMA and DDR but LMA is the worst and not to me many people on this forum notice it or just fail to Express it.

[tmtcsc]

DJM is going to be okay but

Stopped reading. He's not going to be okay, he sucks.

[tmtcsc]

Dejounte Murray, Lonnie Walker, Luka Sum & Trey Lyles need to find their ways off this team in some form or fashion. Getting rid of Forbes and Metu should have just been the start of the house cleaning. Until this team elevates its talent, they'll be dragging in mediocrity. Gotta replace those dudes with players who are dawgs & compete. Spurs don't need players that just talk a big game or are trying to "find themselves". What a bunch of nonsense. As much as I appreciate Derrick White, dude needs to get healthy & toughen up too. Enough with the weird injuries and sitting out for weeks.

[RC_Drunkford]

DeRozan playing the four full time will not work. It's amazing to me that I have argue this after spending years arguing that DMDR could and should play PF situationally against a forum that believed he was an SG.

Ah yeah? And what exactly can your preferred starter Trey Lyles do better than DeRozan? I'll wait

[bluebellmaniac]

Dejounte Murray, Lonnie Walker, Luka Sum & Trey Lyles need to find their ways off this team in some form or fashion. Getting rid of Forbes and Metu should have just been the start of the house cleaning. Until this team elevates its talent, they'll be dragging in mediocrity. Gotta replace those dudes with players who are dawgs & compete. Spurs don't need players that just talk a big game or are trying to "find themselves". What a bunch of nonsense. As much as I appreciate Derrick White, dude needs to get healthy & toughen up too. Enough with the weird injuries and sitting out for weeks.

The time to start judging Luka will be AFTER this season. He has another year of development before we see what kind of roux we have.

Yes, that's a cooking term.