Ukraine

[Ef-man]

Post of the year!

[DMC]

Thanks. I would've agreed with your initial sentence when this war started, especially before seeing the EU and US coming together the way they have. And it's still possible that Russia ends up bombing Ukraine into submission.

What's not so clear to me anymore is that Russia can afford a 5 year (much less a 10 or 20 year) war. Right now it's clear to me that Ukraine will have an endless supply of weapons if they're willing to fight, whereas Russia is going to have a lot more problems in the long run in that area.

What I call a win or loss is what the purported objectives are. For Russia, despite being fairly vague in their statements, I think it's pretty clear they ultimately want to annex Donetsk and Luhansk, on top of Crimea. Possibly Mariupol as well to have a full corridor on the Black Sea, and at the end of the day choke the Ukrainian commerce.

For Ukraine, it's defending their sovereignty, including those lands. If we go by cities taken, and considering this supposed overwhelming force, I can't think Russia achieved their objectives so far, and at this point it certainly looks pretty embarrassing, tbh...

The war sucks but all in all I prefer to see Russia deplete its resources basically bombing itself than for the US to commit to another long, drawn out conflict with no resolution.

It only looks embarrassing because people think a war can be won video game style. Russia throws bodies at it just like WWII. They will win by attrition, even if the narrative minded folks want to say otherwise. You won't see a Ukrainian waving their flag at the Kremlin. Unlike the US, Russia doesn't weep at every soldier's funeral.

[hater]

The war sucks but all in all I prefer to see Russia deplete its resources basically bombing itself than for the US to commit to another long, drawn out conflict with no resolution.

It only looks embarrassing because people think a war can be won video game style. Russia throws bodies at it just like WWII. They will win by attrition, even if the narrative minded folks want to say otherwise. You won't see a Ukrainian waving their flag at the Kremlin. Unlike the US, Russia doesn't weep at every soldier's funeral.

Pretty much

Russia and Pudding already calculated a Ukraine win will cost 20, 30 or even 40k dead russians.

They already ok with that.

Dumb americans believe thats unthinkable as US junk food eaters would have a revolution if 10k overweight gringos die in a skirmish.

Ce la vi

[DMC]

nope. i correctly pointed out that the post you quoted did not have a double negative

then you threw a fit about it

probably should have just edited it instead of doubling down on a mistake

as usual, you have no actual takes on the substance

Take your L and move along.

[ElNono]

The war sucks but all in all I prefer to see Russia deplete its resources basically bombing itself than for the US to commit to another long, drawn out conflict with no resolution.

It only looks embarrassing because people think a war can be won video game style. Russia throws bodies at it just like WWII. They will win by attrition, even if the narrative minded folks want to say otherwise. You won't see a Ukrainian waving their flag at the Kremlin. Unlike the US, Russia doesn't weep at every soldier's funeral.

I don't think the US needs to do anything other than provide Ukraine with what it needs. As long as this conflict remains Ukraine vs Russia, and Russia keeps bombing indiscriminately, this is the best free advertising NATO could ever have.

Ukraine is not looking to conquer Russia, so I don't know why you even mention the Ukrainian flag at the Kremlin. Ukraine simply wants to repel the invader, that would unequivocally be a win for them. It looks embarrassing exactly because of what you mentioned in your previous post. The fact that Russia still has to take over a major city despite the Ukraine not having a "snowball chance" as you put it, after a month in, is indeed embarrassing. A war of attrition, especially guerrilla type of warfare, is a big equalizer, as both Russia and the US have seen in Afghanistan.

[Thread]

The Ayatollah, of rock & rolla!!!

Putin: "There has been too much violence. Too much pain. But I have an honorable compromise. Just walk away and I'll spare your lives. Just walk away and we'll give you a safe passageway in the wastelands. Just walk away and there will be an end to the horror."

[Thread]

"Just walk away."

[DMC]

I don't think the US needs to do anything other than provide Ukraine with what it needs. As long as this conflict remains Ukraine vs Russia, and Russia keeps bombing indiscriminately, this is the best free advertising NATO could ever have.

Ukraine is not looking to conquer Russia, so I don't know why you even mention the Ukrainian flag at the Kremlin. Ukraine simply wants to repel the invader, that would unequivocally be a win for them. It looks embarrassing exactly because of what you mentioned in your previous post. The fact that Russia still has to take over a major city despite the Ukraine not having a "snowball chance" as you put it, after a month in, is indeed embarrassing. A war of attrition, especially guerrilla type of warfare, is a big equalizer, as both Russia and the US have seen in Afghanistan.

Just because Ukraine has lower goals doesn't mean their pounding = winning. I mean, if I approached a BJJ expert and broke his nose with one punch and he proceeded to kick the ever loving out of me, did I win? All I wanted was to break his nose. Yay I win, but he lost because he's an expert with a broken nose...

Along that same line..

Let’s discuss the legal use of force and proportional force to neutralize an attack and get to safety.

Something that we need to get out of the way first:

A martial artist, combat athlete, systems prac ioner or whatever else they may choose to call their training has the same right to self-defense as anyone else. You are not (outside of the territory of Guam) a “deadly weapon”. You have the right to defend yourself or those in your charge against bodily harm.

With that being said, there is an escalation of force.

A scenario.

Scenario 1: The drunk guy at the bar.

You and your friends and/or romantic partner are at a bar, perhaps watching a game. There is a drunk man there, being loud and rambunctious. For some reason, this drunk person has taken an interest in you, your friends, or your romantic partner. He says a couple of choice things, you tell him to chill, and he pushes you not knowing that you are a trained martial artist.

Response 1: You roll with his push, take him into a hold, and tell the bartender to call the police. He’s unhurt, you’re unhurt. There are lots of witnesses to the fact that he pushed you. This is an appropriate use of force and ability. The chances of criminal charges are minimal.

Response 2: After he pushes you, you slam an elbow into his jaw, throw him to the ground, smack his head off the floor, elbow him until he’s unconscious. There are a lot of witnesses to the fact that he pushed you, there are also a lot of witnesses to the fact that you just did your best Jon Jones impression on this drunk fool. This is an inappropriate use of force and ability. The chances of criminal charges are very very high. You’re going to get arrested at the scene, no question. Your history of martial arts is going to be used as evidence, and the prosecutor is going to take it into account. Felonious charges will probably ensue.

Response 3: After he pushes you, you strike him once, right in the jaw, knocking him out. Lots of witnesses again. This is a legal grey area, and it could go either way. A lot is going to depend on the local law enforcement, the prosecutor and the like. 50/50 chances of criminal charges. You may be arrested. I would lawyer up hard in this case. Again, martial arts knowledge can be used as evidence, at least in the police reports.

Response 4: You get angry after he shoves you, and ask him “to step outside”. You both go out in the parking lot and fight. A fight in which the trained fighter/martial artist wins, in brutal fashion. You are both going to jail, full stop. Both are probably going to be charged with assault and battery, perhaps later felony charges, and there are plenty of civil liabilities here as well.

The point of this situation is quite simple, you are at a bar, with a drunk person, and he is causing issues. You asked him to calm down, he continued to talk, you told him to chill out, he walks over and shoves you. How you respond to his situation is all about proportional use of force, A shove is not a deadly force attack, and doesn’t warrant a deadly response. Response 1 is the correct response.

A better response is to simply get up and leave the bar, not to even be there for this kind of thing to happen. When it comes to self-defense an ounce of prevention is better than a pound of response.

A much more dire situation is if the drunk guy follows you outside, proceeds to attack you while threatening to rape your romantic partner (usually a girlfriend). I’ve had this happen to me. This is a deadly force situation. You now have the legal right to do whatever it takes to neutralize the threat, up to and including deadly force. The same is if he at any time produces a weapon, whether it be something he is carrying, such as a knife, pipe, or firearm, or a “weapon of opportunity”, like a chair or a rock. Anytime weapons come into play, the scene immediately shifts to deadly force.

You shouldn’t be “fighting” though, if you are a martial artist, and want to fight, get in the ring or cage. You shouldn’t be walking into a parking lot, knowingly, to “duke it out”. Dueling is illegal, and that’s the way it is. Doing so will almost certainly result in legal issues, assault and battery mainly, and civil liabilities. While you may not be a “deadly weapon”, your history in martial arts and combat sports can and will be taken into account by law enforcement and especially by a complaining attorney. It’s better to completely avoid “fights” as a martial artist, and you should know better. A self-defense situation isn’t a “fight”, it’s just that; a sudden, and possibly deadly, a situation in which you must make responsible decisions about levels of force to defend yourself and neutralize the situation.

Having training, and knowing how to use it, is a massive responsibility. Combat ability is a burden as much as it is a privilege. There is no claiming ignorance of the damage something can do, there is know claiming, “going blank”, a half-decent attorney is going to shred that on the stand.

“You’re a trained martial artist?”

“Yes”

“And you told the police you ‘lost control and went blank’?”

“Yes, but you see, it’s-”

“Yes or no, please.”

“Yes.”

“According to reports with the local boxing commission you have 8 amateur mixed martial arts fights/according to your dojo’s records you’ve been training for 10-years?”

“That’s correct…”

“No further questions”

“Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, how does a trained martial artist who has fought in a steel cage eight times/has ten years experience “lose control”, blank out, and clinically beat up my client, who is untrained, inexperienced…”

While the fault for the beginning of the conflict may be shared, the trained martial artist escalated the level of force used and caused damage in a conflict that could have been avoided.

“Judgement for the plaintiff in the amount of….”

Unless, of course, you have the money for a cracking legal team, in which case; was the fight worth it?

Don’t fight, simple as that. Don’t do it. Because training can and will be used against you as evidence, either by the state prosecutor or in civil litigation.

Defend yourself, absolutely. Neutralize a threat, even kill to protect your life or the lives of others, that is without question. But take these actions knowing the appropriate response. As a martial artist or combat athlete, you have taken on the responsibility and effort to learn something that is incredibly difficult, which means you take on the responsibility to learn how it should be applied. No excuses.

So in the end I win, even if I got my ass kicked, because he's in jail and I am free, even with a kicked ass.

[spurraider21]

The war sucks but all in all I prefer to see Russia deplete its resources basically bombing itself than for the US to commit to another long, drawn out conflict with no resolution.

It only looks embarrassing because people think a war can be won video game style. Russia throws bodies at it just like WWII. They will win by attrition, even if the narrative minded folks want to say otherwise. You won't see a Ukrainian waving their flag at the Kremlin. Unlike the US, Russia doesn't weep at every soldier's funeral.

It’s not because it’s video game style. It’s because we’ve seen the US “win” such wars with ease in Afghanistan and Iraq. I put win in quotes because we did defeat their military and topple their governments. I’m not saying they’re good things or that the ultimate outcome of long engagements was an accomplishment.

meanwhile russia easily swooped up crimea years ago so those expectations were there again. But russia folding against resistance isn’t unique. They couldn’t topple Afghanistan either.

[SnakeBoy]

Thanks. I would've agreed with your initial sentence when this war started, especially before seeing the EU and US coming together the way they have. And it's still possible that Russia ends up bombing Ukraine into submission.

What's not so clear to me anymore is that Russia can afford a 5 year (much less a 10 or 20 year) war. Right now it's clear to me that Ukraine will have an endless supply of weapons if they're willing to fight, whereas Russia is going to have a lot more problems in the long run in that area.

What I call a win or loss is what the purported objectives are. For Russia, despite being fairly vague in their statements, I think it's pretty clear they ultimately want to annex Donetsk and Luhansk, on top of Crimea. Possibly Mariupol as well to have a full corridor on the Black Sea, and at the end of the day choke the Ukrainian commerce.

For Ukraine, it's defending their sovereignty, including those lands. If we go by cities taken, and considering this supposed overwhelming force, I can't think Russia achieved their objectives so far, and at this point it certainly looks pretty embarrassing, tbh...

Looks like Ukraine will last maybe 5 or 6 more weeks not 5 years

[SnakeBoy]

Libs watching Ukraine Nazi propaganda on twitter

[DarrinS]

Libs watching Ukraine Nazi propaganda on twitter

[SnakeBoy]

The U.N. human rights office (OHCHR) said on Monday it had recorded 2,421 civilian casualties in Ukraine - 925 killed and 1,496 injured - as of midnight on March 20.

Pootin being more careful than we were in Iraq tbh

[Thread]

"Just walk away."

[Thread]

The U.N. human rights office (OHCHR) said on Monday it had recorded 2,421 civilian casualties in Ukraine - 925 killed and 1,496 injured - as of midnight on March 20.

Pootin being more careful than we were in Iraq tbh

Snakester

[ElNono]

Just because Ukraine has lower goals doesn't mean their pounding = winning. I mean, if I approached a BJJ expert and broke his nose with one punch and he proceeded to kick the ever loving out of me, did I win? All I wanted was to break his nose. Yay I win, but he lost because he's an expert with a broken nose...

Along that same line..

Let’s discuss the legal use of force and proportional force to neutralize an attack and get to safety.

...

So in the end I win, even if I got my ass kicked, because he's in jail and I am free, even with a kicked ass.

Ukraine has the goals it has because it was the country invaded, and wants to stop the invasion. They're not the ones going out there trying to conquer . You have to pin that on Russia that thought Ukraine would take the knee right away, and completely miscalculated.

What could possibly be the escalation from Russia at this stage that wouldn't look desperate? dropping a tactical nuke? using bioweapons?

[ElNono]

Looks like Ukraine will last maybe 5 or 6 more weeks not 5 years

I heard here this was going to be over in 3-5 days, and we're a month in, so your mileage may vary, tbh

[ElNono]

Libs watching Ukraine Nazi propaganda on twitter

Reminds me of Trump s when Brandon took em to the cuckshed...

[Adam Lambert]

Looks like Ukraine will last maybe 5 or 6 more weeks not 5 years

HAHAHAHAHA That's hilarious! Love to dunk on smaller countries getting destroyed!

Lmao Libs!

You're a ing loser. What a sad angry little got.

[Adam Lambert]

Just fascinating how much time some of you spend here taking indefensible positions for the attention.

[DarrinS]

HAHAHAHAHA That's hilarious! Love to dunk on smaller countries getting destroyed!

Lmao Libs!

You're a ing loser. What a sad angry little got.

[Adam Lambert]

Triggered by an avatar again. You prove my point.

[Thread]

HAHAHAHAHA That's hilarious! Love to dunk on smaller countries getting destroyed!

Lmao Libs!

You're a ing loser. What a sad angry little got.

Just fascinating how much time some of you spend here taking indefensible positions for the attention.

Triggered by an avatar again. You prove my point.

Get ya in' your mother some more, Adam.

Chop/chop!!!

[SnakeBoy]

[ElNono]

EC: EU Funds to Hungary Withheld Due to Need to Strengthen Anti-Corruption Framework

https://hungarytoday.hu/coronavirus-...rotection-law/

tee hee