The Penthouse Of Josh Primo

[KingKev]

Spurstalk trying to save face. If you aren’t concerned about Primo’s development after getting solid minutes his first year you are a sniffer.

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I agree with Mr Body here - why are you thinking it's an "irrational hope" that Primo could become a Booker-like player (of course, how close to Booker he'll get is anyone's guess, that's not the point)?

Booker isn't all that athletic nor quick, and he can dunk about as well as Primo can - efficient, lower-level dunks, nothing too crazy. What makes Booker so good is both his insane shooting ability from everywhere on the court, and the amount of moves he pulls to lose his defender, or the quality of "unguardable" shots he can pull off fading away. None of these are beyond Primo's eventual reach, and he's shown from day 1 that he's a shooter kind of player, which I love and the Spurs desperately need.

Primo's gone cold as of late but that's not an indictment at all on how he'll turn out - do you remember anything at all about Booker's rookie season? I'd guess not; you remember what he's doing now at 25, and a bit of his 23-24 seasons at most. Primo's six years away from where Booker is now, and coincidentally, both came into the league really young, too. I'd say it's a worse delusion to flat out say you were wrong, now, than it was to dream him up in the first place. Who's to know? Let the kid play, learn and grow, FFS.

As an addendum, you gotta remember too that Booker had an awful reputation his first couple years. Wasn't seen as a good player, was an inefficient chucker, was the poster boy for "good stats on a team", et al. It took some more top-lottery picks like Ayton, Bridges, and one of the best vets in the league in CP3, to turn his team (and image) around. But Devin's individual game didn't change all that much, which goes to show you how multi-factored this all is.

I'm not worried at all for Primo and it's far too early to put any kind of glass ceiling over his head, tbh.

You're conflating my point about Booker and then taking that to apply to Primo's entire game.

Clearly Primo is no chunker. Clearly Primo isn't the best player on our bad team.

And the reason I had hopes he could be a Booker is because I had hopes he could get to the rim. I dont know what you and Mr Body are smoking if you don't see the clear inability for Primo to CONSISTENTLY get even one step on his man. And yes he threw one down the other day, IN TRANSITION. And had another on a putback. That is not the same as beating your defender on the perimeter and finishing at the rim playing against a SET DEFENSE.

And again, I know he will get his shot. You're simply misreading what I'm saying. I think he'll potentially be a 18-21 PPG scorer someday, based largely on a mid range and 3 pt game.

But him being a 25PPG scorer like Booker has been since his 3rd year is simply not likely (in fact Booker scored 13.5PPG, then 22PPG in his second) Why? Because he'll more than likely not get enough easy points at the rim or in the paint because he's not a SG or PG as Booker is. He's being played out of position and that's not fair to him, tbh.

The only error I made was comparing him to Booker. But that's only because I saw comparisons to him made on this board in the days following his draft. And what I'm saying is I'm ruling that possibility out before his first year is over.

If course I'll give him time to grow, lol. Can any of you point to where I didn't. But take off the silver and black tinted glasses and let's try to deal in the reality of what his cieling is likely to be. After all, this is a Spurs fan board where such conversations would be had, FFS.

BTW, his game last night was straight TRASH.

[wildbill2u]

I don't see why his role on offense seems to be to go to the corner 3 and wait for someone to notice him. He spends a lot of time standing with no defender near him. Why? His three-point shot isn't falling, so he isn't getting passes from his teammates down there unless they get bottled up and need an outlet. Then he gives it right back to them most of the time. Maybe that's what the coaches want him to do, but it seems pretty useless as a development tool if he won't get more aggressive. He started out the year using his minimal minutes as a chucker, but that phase seems to have been beaten out of him by the coaches. Oh, well, learning process, right? At least he's on the court with the older guys, getting acclimated to the speed and talent he's now up against.

On the other hand I watch his defense pretty closely. He's actually pretty good at help defense, dropping down from the perimeter to help out on drives to the lane against another teammate, but one on one he is having trouble being fast enough --or smart enough--to move laterally to go over the screen. He routinely is picked off and trails his man down the lane. It takes some smarts/experience to know when to move laterally quickly enough to force your way over the top of the screener. And he'd take some punishment trying to do it which he avoids like the plague. Apparently they don't want him giving up and going under the screen so he'll have to learn. In that regard he reminds me of Kyle, but I think he is a bit quicker than Slo Mo?? Anyone disagree with that?

One thing I hate is his occasional passing with one arm without having the hand/arm ed like a spring to give that extended limp arm pass enough velocity. The idea is great if you can pull it off. Manu was a master at this pass. But it is a turnover steal waiting to happen if he just flicks it out slowly from an already extended arm. A little nuance maybe, but in tight games a good passing ball handler is important. Just sayin'

[exstatic]

Spurstalk trying to save face. If you aren’t concerned about Primo’s development after getting solid minutes his first year you are a sniffer.

Dejounte was ing horrible at everything except rebounding his first year. He wasn't even good his second year., and he played 1700 minutes, compared to Josh's 800 rookie minutes with 6 games to go.

Keldon was pretty meh last year, his second year.

They were both a year older than Primo when they became Spurs, and Josh is younger than many players in the upcoming draft, but go ahead and write him off. You'll only look stupid later.

[R. DeMurre]

Scouting Primo has its obstacles because of his extreme youth so I don't really put much weight on this season, but I imagine most people would've reacted pretty strongly to a prediction that he'd be under 30% from three and have a TS% of 48% at this point. Derrick White's not known as a shooter and is in the middle of the worst shooting slump of his career, and still has a better TS% than Primo. But last year's youngest player-- Pokusevski-- has seen a big leap in all of his impact stats, and I'd expect the same from Primo next year.

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Dejounte was ing horrible at everything except rebounding his first year. He wasn't even good his second year., and he played 1700 minutes, compared to Josh's 800 rookie minutes with 6 games to go.

Keldon was pretty meh last year, his second year.

They were both a year older than Primo when they became Spurs, and Josh is younger than many players in the upcoming draft, but go ahead and write him off. You'll only look stupid later.

Sigh...huge difference between "writing him off" and setting his ceiling as fans are eager to do.

He'll be a solid player for is for a decade or more. Sometimes the best player even. But he's simply not athletically gifted enough to be a perennial all-star.

[exstatic]

Sigh...huge difference between "writing him off" and setting his ceiling as fans are eager to do.

He'll be a solid player for is for a decade or more. Sometimes the best player even. But he's simply not athletically gifted enough to be a perennial all-star.

When you pull out the "sniffer" card, it's a huge negative red flag. You are seriously down on that player.

[KingKev]

Dejounte was ing horrible at everything except rebounding his first year. He wasn't even good his second year., and he played 1700 minutes, compared to Josh's 800 rookie minutes with 6 games to go.

Keldon was pretty meh last year, his second year.

They were both a year older than Primo when they became Spurs, and Josh is younger than many players in the upcoming draft, but go ahead and write him off. You'll only look stupid later.

I’ve never been on the Primo bandwagon but not writing him off. I was firmly on the DJ and Keldon wagon at an early stage and it’s worth mentioning they were late firs rounders. I’ll happily eat my crow if Primo turns into a better player than either DJ or Keldon by year 4. Or maybe i’ll back track or just completely deny I was ever wrong like you do.

[exstatic]

I wasn't on the DJ wagon early. Not even in year 2. You know what I didn't do? Call his supporters sniffers, because I'm not in ing junior high.

[rjv]

Dejounte was ing horrible at everything except rebounding his first year. He wasn't even good his second year., and he played 1700 minutes, compared to Josh's 800 rookie minutes with 6 games to go.

Keldon was pretty meh last year, his second year.

They were both a year older than Primo when they became Spurs, and Josh is younger than many players in the upcoming draft, but go ahead and write him off. You'll only look stupid later.

later?

[Atl Spur]

Dejounte was ing horrible at everything except rebounding his first year. He wasn't even good his second year., and he played 1700 minutes, compared to Josh's 800 rookie minutes with 6 games to go.

Keldon was pretty meh last year, his second year.

They were both a year older than Primo when they became Spurs, and Josh is younger than many players in the upcoming draft, but go ahead and write him off. You'll only look stupid later.

Look stupid later? I worry about that King Kev sometimes……

[KingKev]

I wasn't on the DJ wagon early. Not even in year 2. You know what I didn't do? Call his supporters sniffers, because I'm not in ing junior high.

1. You still hate on DJ and would have chosen D White as the starting point guard and leader of this team as recent as the fall of 2021
2. No one mistakes you or your bad takes for youth. We all know you are an old man
3. This board had obscene expectations for Primo that were never warranted. If you can’t see that than yes you are a sniffer. The Primo is young argument will only hold for so long when he is getting consistent minutes on a team that lacks talent and go-to scoring.

[KingKev]

Look stupid later? I worry about that King Kev sometimes……

Worry about writing your next fortune cookie.

Tomas Satoransky has entered the chat…

Zollins and Jak are the new twin towers…

[GAustex]

Lotto pick just is not all that
So far

[slick'81]

Lotto pick just is not all that
So far

not surprising. Hes just barely now getting consistent playing time ,and is extremely raw. Next season will obviously tell us alot more

[exstatic]

1. You still hate on DJ and would have chosen D White as the starting point guard and leader of this team as recent as the fall of 2021
2. No one mistakes you or your bad takes for youth. We all know you are an old man
3. This board had obscene expectations for Primo that were never warranted. If you can’t see that than yes you are a sniffer. The Primo is young argument will only hold for so long when he is getting consistent minutes on a team that lacks talent and go-to scoring.

I've never hated DJ. I just recognize that he's really much more of a combo guard than a PG. He can make the rudimentary, easy pass, but what he can't see are players that are about to get open, or odd angles, or something against the grain. A good PG sees that. , Jak sees that. He hit Devin with several nice lead bound passes for baskets and dunks. Primo, with all of 800 minutes experience, makes some passes that DJ just isn't capable of, mainly because he doesn't see the opening.

DJ can be taken out of his comfort zone by a team willing to pressure or even trap him and live with the results, like Memphis did last night. When he's pressured, and gets by it, he reverts to form, not seeing it as a numbers advantage to get a team mate an easy bucket, but a chance to score a mid range or a turnaround step back J. The thing is, those are far less efficient than hitting a team mate for a corner 3 or a cutter for an 80% bucket at the rim.

[Texas_Ranger]

best case scenario he turns up to be a loser like Lonnie Walker. Another pick by the Spurs, who clearly have incompetent scouts.

[Atl Spur]

Worry about writing your next fortune cookie.

Tomas Satoransky has entered the chat…

Zollins and Jak are the new twin towers…

Now let’s not get bent out of shape Collins and Primo will be just fine.

[GAustex]

One is and was a bust and the other a maybe

[XDT76]

I don't see why his role on offense seems to be to go to the corner 3 and wait for someone to notice him. He spends a lot of time standing with no defender near him. Why? His three-point shot isn't falling, so he isn't getting passes from his teammates down there unless they get bottled up and need an outlet. Then he gives it right back to them most of the time. Maybe that's what the coaches want him to do, but it seems pretty useless as a development tool if he won't get more aggressive. He started out the year using his minimal minutes as a chucker, but that phase seems to have been beaten out of him by the coaches. Oh, well, learning process, right? At least he's on the court with the older guys, getting acclimated to the speed and talent he's now up against.

On the other hand I watch his defense pretty closely. He's actually pretty good at help defense, dropping down from the perimeter to help out on drives to the lane against another teammate, but one on one he is having trouble being fast enough --or smart enough--to move laterally to go over the screen. He routinely is picked off and trails his man down the lane. It takes some smarts/experience to know when to move laterally quickly enough to force your way over the top of the screener. And he'd take some punishment trying to do it which he avoids like the plague. Apparently they don't want him giving up and going under the screen so he'll have to learn. In that regard he reminds me of Kyle, but I think he is a bit quicker than Slo Mo?? Anyone disagree with that?

One thing I hate is his occasional passing with one arm without having the hand/arm ed like a spring to give that extended limp arm pass enough velocity. The idea is great if you can pull it off. Manu was a master at this pass. But it is a turnover steal waiting to happen if he just flicks it out slowly from an already extended arm. A little nuance maybe, but in tight games a good passing ball handler is important. Just sayin'

Why is it the coaches fault when he cannot hit 3s and attack the rim? He is a turnover waiting to happen whenever he puts the ball on the ground, he would need to improve his handling in the off season and if possible his speed.

[Sugus]

You're conflating my point about Booker and then taking that to apply to Primo's entire game.

Clearly Primo is no chunker. Clearly Primo isn't the best player on our bad team.

And the reason I had hopes he could be a Booker is because I had hopes he could get to the rim. I dont know what you and Mr Body are smoking if you don't see the clear inability for Primo to CONSISTENTLY get even one step on his man. And yes he threw one down the other day, IN TRANSITION. And had another on a putback. That is not the same as beating your defender on the perimeter and finishing at the rim playing against a SET DEFENSE.

And again, I know he will get his shot. You're simply misreading what I'm saying. I think he'll potentially be a 18-21 PPG scorer someday, based largely on a mid range and 3 pt game.

But him being a 25PPG scorer like Booker has been since his 3rd year is simply not likely (in fact Booker scored 13.5PPG, then 22PPG in his second) Why? Because he'll more than likely not get enough easy points at the rim or in the paint because he's not a SG or PG as Booker is. He's being played out of position and that's not fair to him, tbh.

The only error I made was comparing him to Booker. But that's only because I saw comparisons to him made on this board in the days following his draft. And what I'm saying is I'm ruling that possibility out before his first year is over.

If course I'll give him time to grow, lol. Can any of you point to where I didn't. But take off the silver and black tinted glasses and let's try to deal in the reality of what his cieling is likely to be. After all, this is a Spurs fan board where such conversations would be had, FFS.

BTW, his game last night was straight TRASH.

Things we can agree on: Booker isn't a good player comp for Primo, Primo isn't too likely to turn into a Booker-like player.

I disagree with most of the rest, but it's mostly opinion one way or another, so it's a pointless discussion to have until Primo has more games, experience, and reps at the NBA level and we get a clearer picture of what he is and isn't. Again, even Booker wasn't "Booker" coming into the league (and his terrible teams' situations at the start of his career allowed him far more protagonism, shots per game, and reps, than Primo has gotten and probably will get next season, too, even if the Spurs tank out a second season), it's far too early to put a ceiling on Primo's projected career.

I also find hilarious that you think all of Booker's athleticism, scoring at the rim, etc, makes for only a 3ppg difference regarding what Primo could do... If Primo's a 18-21PPG scorer someday, it means he's already found ways to leverage his athleticism and shooting to great lengths, tbh. An odd cutout you make there. More PPG or less is, again, in most cases, a direct result of team composition and talent level (same way Dejounte's PPG saw a noticeable, and predictable, jump this season, with DeRozan et al off the team) beyond simple talent level. I don't see anything in Primo's game so far that marks a "death knell" to his ceiling that he can't possibly get over; he can improve his first step, his handles, he could tap into a post game (especially if he continues to play as a big guard and continues to grow, he could go the Luka route and bully smaller players). Lots of things he could do with proper development.

It's fine if you want to rule him out. I don't. You sound like the people saying James Harden had a 6MOTY ceiling back in his first couple seasons, and exactly for the same motives: lack of an explosive first step and otherwordly acceleration (little did we know it was his deceleration that would matter most), etc etc.

Let the kid play a while before putting ceilings over his head is all I'm saying, bottomline, tbh.

[CGD]

He’s gonna be a great player for us. In my opinion, maybe with the exception of White, he’s been the most promising of the young guys in their respective year 1s.

[Dejounte]

Things we can agree on: Booker isn't a good player comp for Primo, Primo isn't too likely to turn into a Booker-like player.

I disagree with most of the rest, but it's mostly opinion one way or another, so it's a pointless discussion to have until Primo has more games, experience, and reps at the NBA level and we get a clearer picture of what he is and isn't. Again, even Booker wasn't "Booker" coming into the league (and his terrible teams' situations at the start of his career allowed him far more protagonism, shots per game, and reps, than Primo has gotten and probably will get next season, too, even if the Spurs tank out a second season), it's far too early to put a ceiling on Primo's projected career.

I also find hilarious that you think all of Booker's athleticism, scoring at the rim, etc, makes for only a 3ppg difference regarding what Primo could do... If Primo's a 18-21PPG scorer someday, it means he's already found ways to leverage his athleticism and shooting to great lengths, tbh. An odd cutout you make there. More PPG or less is, again, in most cases, a direct result of team composition and talent level (same way Dejounte's PPG saw a noticeable, and predictable, jump this season, with DeRozan et al off the team) beyond simple talent level. I don't see anything in Primo's game so far that marks a "death knell" to his ceiling that he can't possibly get over; he can improve his first step, his handles, he could tap into a post game (especially if he continues to play as a big guard and continues to grow, he could go the Luka route and bully smaller players). Lots of things he could do with proper development.

It's fine if you want to rule him out. I don't. You sound like the people saying James Harden had a 6MOTY ceiling back in his first couple seasons, and exactly for the same motives: lack of an explosive first step and otherwordly acceleration (little did we know it was his deceleration that would matter most), etc etc.

Let the kid play a while before putting ceilings over his head is all I'm saying, bottomline, tbh.

You would think people would have learned not to put ceilings on players too early after what we now have with DJ.

on your point about first step, it is this year (DJ’s fifth season) where DJ looks more explosive than ever. Even Keldon looks more explosive and its his third season.


not related to your post:
also I just don’t understand why folks insist on hating on people for liking players. Let people like what they like.

someone said Primo is as passive as Lonnie
Maybe true.
but Lonnie was not only passive before this season (and earlier in the season)… he was passive AND invisible. Like, it was literally four vs five because he the bed in nearly all aspects of basketball if he didnt have the ball and was scoring. Primo at least knows to play within his role and occasionally plays good defense.

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Things we can agree on: Booker isn't a good player comp for Primo, Primo isn't too likely to turn into a Booker-like player.

I disagree with most of the rest, but it's mostly opinion one way or another, so it's a pointless discussion to have until Primo has more games, experience, and reps at the NBA level and we get a clearer picture of what he is and isn't. Again, even Booker wasn't "Booker" coming into the league (and his terrible teams' situations at the start of his career allowed him far more protagonism, shots per game, and reps, than Primo has gotten and probably will get next season, too, even if the Spurs tank out a second season), it's far too early to put a ceiling on Primo's projected career.

I also find hilarious that you think all of Booker's athleticism, scoring at the rim, etc, makes for only a 3ppg difference regarding what Primo could do... If Primo's a 18-21PPG scorer someday, it means he's already found ways to leverage his athleticism and shooting to great lengths, tbh. An odd cutout you make there. More PPG or less is, again, in most cases, a direct result of team composition and talent level (same way Dejounte's PPG saw a noticeable, and predictable, jump this season, with DeRozan et al off the team) beyond simple talent level. I don't see anything in Primo's game so far that marks a "death knell" to his ceiling that he can't possibly get over; he can improve his first step, his handles, he could tap into a post game (especially if he continues to play as a big guard and continues to grow, he could go the Luka route and bully smaller players). Lots of things he could do with proper development.

It's fine if you want to rule him out. I don't. You sound like the people saying James Harden had a 6MOTY ceiling back in his first couple seasons, and exactly for the same motives: lack of an explosive first step and otherwordly acceleration (little did we know it was his deceleration that would matter most), etc etc.

Let the kid play a while before putting ceilings over his head is all I'm saying, bottomline, tbh.

I said 18-21ppg. Booker averages 26ppg now and will likely peak around 30ppg. That's far from 3 pts per game. And the difference between those averages is typically easy points that Primo will never get with any consistency.

And moreover, Booker routinely gets a collapsing defense for an assist or a hockey assist. They play the same way we did once upon a time when we had guards that could get past the first level of the defense. Primo has a better chance of improving his handles to create room laterally to get off a mid range thangetting into the heart of the defense for those kinds of assists. Btw, when Primo is heading downhill or along the baseline, he's **very* turnover prone.

And let me try this one more time. I'm ruling out his high end. Not his potential to be a long term third or even second best scoring option on this team. And maybe even the best scoring option if he can ever knock down 40% plus 3pt%.

One last counterpoint...have you ever seen someone get quicker than they were at 19? What on Earth makes you think hesgonna magically develop a quicker first step than he has now? I mean better handles **might** get him a crossover dribble drive on occasion but any rim runs aren't gonna come when he's 25 because he got quicker. If he starts being an assassin from 3, he'll also gain a bit of an advantage that might help him. But all things being equal, he's very unlikely to beat a defender in 5 yrs on quickness alone that he can't beat today.

As for Harden, he was crossing people up as a rookie in OKC. Then a few years later was traded for a bunch of assets to Houston because everyone and their mother could see he was an excellent finisher. So not sure where you're trying to loop me into some fictional cross comparison to a multi-MVP winner. That was strange Sugus.

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I knew Josh was having a rough year but holy , I was just perusing the team's stats and...

Primo's 'PER' IS LOWER THAN EVERY SINGLE PLAYER THAT HAS SUITED UP FOR THE SPURS, EXCEPT TYLER JOHNSON.

And it's not even really close. Almost everyone is about 5 points or more higher, save Weiskamp and Juancho who are only 1.5 and 2.0 pts higher, respectively.

His assist to turnover rate of 1.3 is also an outlier for someone than handles the ball as much as he does.

Lots of improvement needed this off-season.