Hornets looking to move Hayward attached with a first round pick

[KobesAchilles]

Yes, like "how do the Spurs get a top 3 pick in the draft"?

Hypothetically he is the perfect guy to put around DJ. He moves well off the ball. He is a secondary creator on offense that we don’t have. He has a high IQ and knows how to play. He is a very good 3 point shooter averaging close to 40% from deep on high volume. And when DJ is struggling we have someone who can score in a variety of ways. I would prefer him to be our 3rd best player instead of our second but beggars and choosers and all

Only problem is that he might be a little tiny smidge bit injury prone

[Dex]

Hypothetically he is the perfect guy to put around DJ. He moves well off the ball. He is a secondary creator on offense that we don’t have. He has a high IQ and knows how to play. He is a very good 3 point shooter averaging close to 40% from deep on high volume. And when DJ is struggling we have someone who can score in a variety of ways. I would prefer him to be our 3rd best player instead of our second but beggars and choosers and all

Only problem is that he might be a little tiny smidge bit injury prone

Also due $61.5M guaranteed over the next two years.

Even the young, healthy version of Hayward wasn't worth that Definitely not for the old and busted version

[exstatic]

Hypothetically he is the perfect guy to put around DJ. He moves well off the ball. He is a secondary creator on offense that we don’t have. He has a high IQ and knows how to play. He is a very good 3 point shooter averaging close to 40% from deep on high volume. And when DJ is struggling we have someone who can score in a variety of ways. I would prefer him to be our 3rd best player instead of our second but beggars and choosers and all

Only problem is that he might be a little tiny smidge bit injury prone

Just a bit. He's played 145 games in the last 3 seasons. One was the bubble, 70-ish games, one was 72 games, one was 82, so 220-ish games. Not a great track record. He's really never been the same since that horrible leg fracture his first game with Boston. He played 72/82 games the next year, but then fell off a cliff, health-wise.

[exstatic]

Also due $61.5M guaranteed over the next two years.

Even the young, healthy version of Hayward wasn't worth that Definitely not for the old and busted version

In today's NBA economy? And healthy? I'd absolutely pay him that. He isn't even close to a healthy, durable player, though. I'd probably count on 100-110 games played over the two seasons.

[R. DeMurre]

Prime healthy Gordon Hayward was a very good player. In 2017, he averaged 21.9 ppg, 5.4 rpg, and 3.5 apg while shooting 40% from three, led his team in impact stats, and helped Utah beat CP3's Clippers in the playoffs. He was never quite the same after that brutal injury in his first game as a Celtic.

[slick'81]

In today's NBA economy? And healthy? I'd absolutely pay him that. He isn't even close to a healthy, durable player, though. I'd probably count on 100-110 games played over the two seasons.

a healthy hayward is a stud but does that even exist anymore

[mo7888]

If we like Brogdon there might be a 3 team deal to be had with indy getting Hayward (doesn't it feel like he should be there), us getting Brogdon and Charlotte getting Turner... #15 to Spurs, #13 and #20 to Indy, Doug to Charlotte... maybe not exactly that but some iteration..

Spurs draft-

9 Duren
15 Dieng/Eason
25 Porcida

Trade 38 to the Lakers for future 1st..

[Dex]

In today's NBA economy? And healthy? I'd absolutely pay him that. He isn't even close to a healthy, durable player, though. I'd probably count on 100-110 games played over the two seasons.

Gotta agree to disagree here. There are guys out there like Lillard, Paul, Butler, Davis, Embiid, etc. who aren't even making $31M a year (or are darn close).

Even at his best, I don't think Hayward was a player who could single-handedly propel a team deep into the playoffs.

If I'm a GM signing off on paying someone $30M+ per, they better be one of those guys... I wouldn't give it to someone who was (at best) a 2nd piece in his prime.

[Chinook]

Pretty sure everyone but Paul is making that much money. It's below the lowest max.

[mo7888]

Gotta agree to disagree here. There are guys out there like Lillard, Paul, Butler, Davis, Embiid, etc. who aren't even making $31M a year (or are darn close).

Even at his best, I don't think Hayward was a player who could single-handedly propel a team deep into the playoffs.

If I'm a GM signing off on paying someone $30M+ per, they better be one of those guys... I wouldn't give it to someone who was (at best) a 2nd piece in his prime.

Don't all of those guys make over $30M...some of them over $40M?

[poopbox]

Tatum has definitely played more power-forward than Brown. I thought you'd just gotten then confused and made a tongue-in-cheek remark, but I see you were serious ... and seriously wrong.



Brown wasn't, isn't and has never been the power-forward for Boston. Are you confusing him with someone else? Horford and Grant Williams play PF for the Celtics nowadays.



Collins and Poeltl barely played together (someone said less than a minute the whole season). Are you sure you aren't talking about Landale? Collins did play some PF and had success according to 82G, but it was a tiny fraction of his minutes. His top-20 lineups by minutes have at C except the one with Landale, and I'm not sure SOB was actually the center of that unit.



I think he can guard most PFs better than Johnson can and can give much-needed offensive versatility there. The Spurs need play-making, and Hayward can do that with enough size to cause mismatches. Whether you want to call him or Johnson the PF is irrelevant. But the two would fit together. Not ideally, but you're talking about the team getting a lotto pick for taking him. I'm willing to let them try to figure that out.



Yes. I can talk about multiple scenarios at once. In the same way I can talk about signing Lavine, trading for Collins, drafting guys at every position at 9 or 20, etc. There are multiple ways the team can go this off-season. My ideal outcome and how I'd want the Spurs to behave under certain conditions can differ dramatically. If this were a team that was a power-forward away from contending, I'd be much more exact in how I'd want them to proceed. But this is a win-later salvage trade, and looking at it with those eyes, it could be beneficial.

Grant Williams wasn't in Boston when Heyward was on the team Al Horford was the center then. You know we are talking about Gordon Heyward when he was in Boston right . That was years ago. Not 5 minutes ago.

Hayward can guard better at the PF than Keldon but that is because Keldon might be worst in the league at it. We shouldn't be sucking up a roster spot for a person who is a little better than arguably the worst in the league at defending power fowards. I don't think a lottery pick is worth that.

I don't think Keldon and Hayward fit together at all. On offense sure but on defense they would be every bit the disaster that Keldon and Doug are. Spurs are top 10 in scoring so points is not the problem, our defensive is, specifically with Keldon at the 4 or Keldon and Mcdermott on the floor together.

I am pretty sure that Collins played more than 1 minute with Poeltl the whole season. I know he played with Landale in one of the houston games. The point is that he offers what we should be looking for at the 4 position. Length, physical play around the rim on defense, willing to pick and roll and pick and pop. If we did nothing but let Collins start at power forward the upcoming season, I would be fine with that. We should be pursuing better alternatives, but I think we would be a better team with Collins at the 4 and Keldon at the 3 and McBuckets gone or coming off the bench for Keldon, than we were with McDermott and Keldon playing together.

[poopbox]

If we like Brogdon there might be a 3 team deal to be had with indy getting Hayward (doesn't it feel like he should be there), us getting Brogdon and Charlotte getting Turner... #15 to Spurs, #13 and #20 to Indy, Doug to Charlotte... maybe not exactly that but some iteration..

Spurs draft-

9 Duren
15 Dieng/Eason
25 Porcida

Trade 38 to the Lakers for future 1st..

Would have been all over Brogdon in the past but I want Devin to get as many minutes as possible cause I think he is going to have a break out season. I think Dejounte and Brogdon would be great for the 48 games Brogdon would play.

[Dex]

Don't all of those guys make over $30M...some of them over $40M?

Per https://hoopshype.com/lists/highest-...endorsements/:

Lillard: Salary: $35.4M

Paul: Salary: $27.8M

Butler: Salary: $32.5M

Davis: Salary: $31.8M

Booker: Salary: $28.5M

Embiid: Salary: $28.5M

Yes, those are 2022 numbers and yes, some are just over the $31M mark of Hayward.

Those are also all guys who have carried their teams to playoff runs, not guys who played 52 or less games through the last three seasons.

Maybe it's an exaggeration to say a healthy Hayward isn't worth that, but it's a moot point because Hayward will probably never be healthy again.

[KingKev]

Per https://hoopshype.com/lists/highest-...endorsements/:

Lillard: Salary: $35.4M

Paul: Salary: $27.8M

Butler: Salary: $32.5M

Davis: Salary: $31.8M

Booker: Salary: $28.5M

Embiid: Salary: $28.5M

Yes, those are 2022 numbers and yes, some are just over the $31M mark of Hayward.

Those are also all guys who have carried their teams to playoff runs, not guys who played 52 or less games through the last three seasons.

Maybe it's an exaggeration to say a healthy Hayward isn't worth that, but it's a moot point because Hayward will probably never be healthy again.

your numbers are WAYYYY off

[mo7888]

Per https://hoopshype.com/lists/highest-...endorsements/:

Lillard: Salary: $35.4M

Paul: Salary: $27.8M

Butler: Salary: $32.5M

Davis: Salary: $31.8M

Booker: Salary: $28.5M

Embiid: Salary: $28.5M

Yes, those are 2022 numbers and yes, some are just over the $31M mark of Hayward.

Those are also all guys who have carried their teams to playoff runs, not guys who played 52 or less games through the last three seasons.

Maybe it's an exaggeration to say a healthy Hayward isn't worth that, but it's a moot point because Hayward will probably never be healthy again.

Not close...Lillard is at $42 next season for instance..

[KingKev]

Don't all of those guys make over $30M...some of them over $40M?

Yes. Dex’s numbers are wrong.

[Dex]

OK I'M WRONG I GET IT LEAVE ME ALONE!!!

[exstatic]

Gotta agree to disagree here. There are guys out there like Lillard, Paul, Butler, Davis, Embiid, etc. who aren't even making $31M a year (or are darn close).

Even at his best, I don't think Hayward was a player who could single-handedly propel a team deep into the playoffs.

If I'm a GM signing off on paying someone $30M+ per, they better be one of those guys... I wouldn't give it to someone who was (at best) a 2nd piece in his prime.

Damien Lillard is making $42Mnext year. CP3 made$41M last year, but took a pay cut to keep the Suns together. Jimmy Butler will make $37M next year. Anthony Davis will make $37Mnext year. Ebiodwill make $33M next year, but he following year his extension kicks in, and he will make $43M.

Are you really just not keeping up with NBA salaries? $30M is like what $10M was a decade ago.

[Dex]

Damien Lillard is making $42Mnext year. CP3 made$41M last year, but took a pay cut to keep the Suns together. Jimmy Butler will make $37M next year. Anthony Davis will make $37Mnext year. Ebiodwill make $33M next year, but he following year his extension kicks in, and he will make $43M.

Are you really just not keeping up with NBA salaries? $30M is like what $10M was a decade ago.

I literally was just pulling from that link I posted, so that's my bad for trusting HoopsHype and not doing my homework

Move along. Nothing to see here. These are not the droids you are looking for

[Seventyniner]

Those are also all guys who have carried their teams to playoff runs, not guys who played 52 or less games through the last three seasons.

Maybe it's an exaggeration to say a healthy Hayward isn't worth that, but it's a moot point because Hayward will probably never be healthy again.

That's why Charlotte will have to attach assets to unload Hayward's contract. All those other guys would either never be traded or would require a significant haul in return.

OC has been collecting bad contracts in return for picks for a while. It's a viable medium-term strategy, though one I don't expect the Spurs to fully embrace given that Hayward still has 2 years left on the books.

[scott]

Who cares what position Hayward plays. If we aren't going to do anything with our cap space, might as well collect some more FRPs that can be useful to rebuild the team. I'd do Jak + Doug for Hayward + 13 + 15 if they'd do it. Five FRPs should give us the ammo we need to move up or trade for useful players.

If no one is going to sign here, this is the only way to make it happen.

[Chinook]

Grant Williams wasn't in Boston when Heyward was on the team Al Horford was the center then. You know we are talking about Gordon Heyward when he was in Boston right . That was years ago. Not 5 minutes ago.

Hayward can guard better at the PF than Keldon but that is because Keldon might be worst in the league at it. We shouldn't be sucking up a roster spot for a person who is a little better than arguably the worst in the league at defending power fowards. I don't think a lottery pick is worth that.

I don't think Keldon and Hayward fit together at all. On offense sure but on defense they would be every bit the disaster that Keldon and Doug are. Spurs are top 10 in scoring so points is not the problem, our defensive is, specifically with Keldon at the 4 or Keldon and Mcdermott on the floor together.

I am pretty sure that Collins played more than 1 minute with Poeltl the whole season. I know he played with Landale in one of the houston games. The point is that he offers what we should be looking for at the 4 position. Length, physical play around the rim on defense, willing to pick and roll and pick and pop. If we did nothing but let Collins start at power forward the upcoming season, I would be fine with that. We should be pursuing better alternatives, but I think we would be a better team with Collins at the 4 and Keldon at the 3 and McBuckets gone or coming off the bench for Keldon, than we were with McDermott and Keldon playing together.

Williams and Hayward did play together, and Brown wasn't the PF ever. He's like Danny Green's size. Tatum has played a ton of PF and will continue to do so. Brown never replaced Hayward. Grant Williams and Horford did. Brown and Tatum always started.

Hayward is better than McDermott and way better than Collins at PF. He didn't play a lot of minutes there, and when he "technically" did, it was in cases like with Landale where he was the de facto center. He doesn't have PF mobility or a perimeter game. He's a bit more modern but worse overall center than Poeltl. Thinking that teams play two centers is just not keeping with the times. Some teams try it for a stretch if they can get the shooting and mobility down, but modern PFs are wings. Protecting the rim is part of defense, but perimeter defense is also part, and the Spurs would be really bad with Keldon and Zach as forwards and Murray and Vassell as point-of-attack defenders.

[RC_Drunkford]

If we like Brogdon there might be a 3 team deal to be had with indy getting Hayward (doesn't it feel like he should be there), us getting Brogdon and Charlotte getting Turner... #15 to Spurs, #13 and #20 to Indy, Doug to Charlotte... maybe not exactly that but some iteration..

Spurs draft-

9 Duren
15 Dieng/Eason
25 Porcida

Trade 38 to the Lakers for future 1st..

If the Spurs trade for Brogdon, re-route him to the Hawks for John Collins. The Hawks are looking for exactly that type of player.

[exstatic]

Who cares what position Hayward plays. If we aren't going to do anything with our cap space, might as well collect some more FRPs that can be useful to rebuild the team. I'd do Jak + Doug for Hayward + 13 + 15 if they'd do it. Five FRPs should give us the ammo we need to move up or trade for useful players.

If no one is going to sign here, this is the only way to make it happen.

The thing is, you have to do a Hayward trade during the draft, and that slams the door shut on even a small or a couple of small FA signings. Door shut.

[tmtcsc]

Hayward made the Spurs look like children in 1 game this year.

Yeah he did. Had 40 something by the 3rd quarter I think. Sat for most of the 4th in a laugher.