"We do not seek a war between NATO and Russia," wrote the president...
You're taking undue liberties in declaring the US at war with Russia. The US has sanctions against a lot of countries we aren't at war against. Maybe ease off the hyperbole.
Aggressor against a foreign country not part of NATO that the US has no obligation to defend. Maybe we have a strategic and financial set of objectives, but no obligations. This goes right back to my original comment.I don't deny the US itches for war, nor claim that the US is a saint. There has been plenty of US wars without a clear goal or strategic objective (Afghanistan and Iraq come to mind in the recent past, and those were fought by both blue and red). But in this particular case, IMO you don't need to be blue or red to figure out who's the aggressor and what they're after. This is why the vast majority of both blue and red congressmen have so far supported this, it's really a no-brainer.
In Kherson, RUS they actually shortened the defense lines so as to be within the range of their own artillery from the eastern bank of the Dnieper. We are talking about the withdrawal of 5-10km towards Kherson. These are the effects of the problem in supplying artillery ammunition.
Why don't you ask Russia how they feel about western sanctions and weapon deliveries? I think they made themselves pretty clear. Technicalities aside, there's plenty of ways to wage war.
I never made the claim we had an 'obligation'. Ultimately, the proof is the reality that NATO countries are sending intel and billions in weapons and aid, and are effectively waging a proxy war. Again, plenty of US and western interest at play here.
So far NATO has played this masterfully and should thank Putler for bringing in new members and making them look decidedly like the adults in the room, tbh.
You don't destroy the basic infrastructure of the land you plan to occupy, because you will need it when you occupy it. Russia attacking it now is an acknowledgment, that they have given up on occupying mainland Ukraine. And Lavrov talking about peace negotiation is a signal they are trying to salvage something from all this at the negotiation table (i bet they are hoping to keep Crimea, as they can then still spin this failed "special operation" into success for domestic use). Reality has started to sink in and they are looking for an off-ramp.
You're being obtuse and dodgy. We aren't at war with Russia and I am not going to pretend your quilt work is the same thing. However you seem to want to use that "we are at war" to make a following point, just know your point relies on a falsehood. Doesn't mean I won't agree with it so I'm not sure why you need to make such a hyperbolic claim.
No, you said we are at war with Russia, that's the ramification of having such responsibility. You didn't need to make the claim, you instead jumped right to the ramification of the unmade claim being made - war. If we are, as you claim, at war, then we must bear some responsibility for Ukraine's success, do we not?I never made the claim we had an 'obligation'. Ultimately, the proof is the reality that NATO countries are sending intel and billions in weapons and aid, and are effectively waging a proxy war. Again, plenty of US and western interest at play here.Since you've put the US at war with Russia, how can you tell who's the adult? Russia hasn't attacked the US yet you claim we have attacked Russia.So far NATO has played this masterfully and should thank Putler for bringing in new members and making them look decidedly like the adults in the room, tbh.
I cannot take you seriously when you're playing such a weak "we are at war with Russia" hand.
Last edited by DMC; 09-12-2022 at 01:01 AM.
Their country isn't in trouble, tbh... the real question is what are they going to do (or what can they do) once they sober up to the fact that they're not the country they were sold they were.
How am I obtuse and dodgy? Is the US and Euro allies not arming Ukraine to the teeth, giving them intel, aid, training? How would you describe economic sanctions in the breadth and scope of those applied to Russia and not consider them economic warfare?
Is Russia not cutting gas supplies to Europe (not Ukraine, Europe)? Why?
We both knows what happens to Ukraine if they don't have any of that. I mean, at least back in the 80s the CIA used to do this in secret, but this is plain as a day.
The notion that the US would need to fly sorties or put boot on the grounds to 'officially' be at war is silly. Heck, NATO is fortunate that the Ukranians are willing to fight and are not Poland (lmao).
No, what I said, and I quote: "As a member of the West, of course it is". It's not just the US, it also includes most of Europe, and some Asian countries like Japan. That's exactly why this conflict has large geopolitical ramifications.
And of course the entire West bear major responsibility for Ukraine extending this to 6+ months so far. Without the West support, this would've been over a long time ago. That, however, is different from having an 'obligation'. The West doesn't owe Ukraine anything, it simply understand what's at stake here, and why Russia must not succeed.
link/quote on the bolded? do you know what a proxy war is? look it up, then we can talk about taking anybody seriously.
Citizens of Luhansk and Donetsk are being denied entry into russia.
Hater, are you even trying.
Looks like the denazification of Ukraine is finally happeningCitizens of Luhansk and Donetsk are being denied entry into russia.
DMC, your thoughts?
On our way back from Izium now. If you want to know why the Russians left all that equipment behind in such a hurry, the answer is the road to Balakliya (from Pervomaiskyi) where the initial Kharkiv offenses were launched.
Holy what a scorched earth graveyard: MBTs, various IFVs and APCs, and both towed and SP howitzers blown to smithereens all over both sides of the road. They never knew what hit them. The Russians in Izium and other parts weren’t going to take that chance so they ed off with the quickness.
stay safe bro
mixed messages, something something, Ukraine sucks, something, i hate chumpdumper bla bla, you misspelled that bla
DMC, your thoughts?
Ain't no off ramp except to leave all of UKR, and that includes Donbas. RUS does not look like they can hold on to anything at this point.
Things are also looking increasingly dangerous for Putin. A lot of the second tier apparatchiks are slowly distancing themselves from the first tier insiders. They are trying to position themselves for what comes after.
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