Shams: Spurs Waive Josh Primo

[TD 21]

This Primo thing has ‘exposed’ more about some ST posters than about him, tbh.

Because some care more about asset management than playing holier than though?

You want to argue they had no choice here and bear no responsibility (presuming they had no prior knowledge), fine. I will even concede that the former is probably true.

But that's where my concern lies.

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Listening to nba radio just now. Amin El Hassin? was implying that Primo had these issues going back to some prep school days. That he was kicked out of prep school, possibly for the same reason? That the spurs would have had to have known about that incident if he could find it without much effort.

This will be the end of the spurs as we know them, if true. Then to pick up his option if more allegations were known...this has the ability to turn into a full-on show at lightning speed.

[MannyIsGod]

It's hard to pin down what the Spurs know. It seems like the Four Seasons incident is what spurred the discipline rather than the lawsuit. I guess we don't know for sure that the hotel situation even happened. If they were trying to get out ahead of the lawsuit, it is a huge mark against the team. I don't actually think the team had the responsibility to fire Primo immediately upon hearing the first allegation. While you can take it seriously, you can't assume guilt no matter how much folks are pushing for that.

I hope the Four Seasons canon is true, and upon hearing the first allegation, the Spurs did their investigation and then fired him upon finding more evidence. It wouldn't be that impossible to believe Primo had hidden it from the team given they didn't seem to know about this when they drafted him. We may well find out that Primo has been doing this for a while and either kept getting lucky with targets or was sociopathically skilled at picking them. Pop's original quote suggested Primo might be able to come back into fold, which is hard to imagine if the Spurs knew the full extent of Primo's allegations or especially the legal situation Primo found himself in. It feels like the Spurs may have heard the first allegation but, still protected Primo came up with the spasming-butt thing and checked it out, and when they found another allegation, they cut him. After hearing what he had to say, they still released him, but they softened their stance to leave the door open for him to return or at least to endorse him finding another opportunity in the NBA. Then they got a fuller picture of what happened and realized they had to completely drop him and expunge him in hopes of mitigating their legal liability.

That's a possibility I want to believe, but there's also the idea that they heard about Primo's nature during their pre-draft investigation but chalked it up to "boys will be boys" and otherwise downplayed the issue and/or assumed their culture could smooth him out or at least keep him in check. Then while they tried to provide him with help and discipline, they also didn't continue to make sure nothing happened. That's a situation where even if they heard of something, they hid behind the "innocent until proven guilty" logic to not truly intervene. Then only after an employee who quit because she wasn't taken seriously retained a lawyer did the team react. They originally just deactivated Primo ala Watson and considered letting things blow over, but then after hearing about the hotel incident leaking, they decided to try to get ahead of everything and fire Primo in hopes their silence, quick action and generous settlements can keep prying eyes away.

I don't want to believe in that second scenario or believe the truth is closer to that than the first. I don't think the front office can survive that, and I don't think I'd want them to. It'd suck for Pop's legacy. Even if he didn't know, it'd be an open question if he only didn't know because he didn't WANT to know. He wouldn't be the first person to say or even to believe in a lot of progressive things while still holding or allowing some regressive ideas. I don't believe that's true, but I'm also not going to get caught up in whether Pop "looks like someone who'd do that". The speculation is wildfire that destroys goodwill and characters. I'd understand the Spurs' impulse to keep all of this under wraps. because in a world where these are just allegations without confession or concrete evidence, the damage to Primo would be immense and slow to ebb. But if they did so, the consequences are going to be immense. The team is almost certainly going to be sued over this regardless. If they don't, it's only because the victim personally doesn't want to. Primo doesn't have a ton of money in comparison to someone like Watson. The Spurs are a bigger fish, and they'll very likely not fight the suit if they can get a reasonable settlement. Unless this staffer just quit out of a conflict of interest or whatever, her being an ex-employee is really going to hurt SA in the court of public opinion. It's going to be really hard to convince the public that they didn't know at least some of what happened. It'd be completely impossible if they had kept him to trade like some argued for.

There's also the factor that Pop might just care for Primo and his statements reflect that.

EDIT: Just to be clear don't disagree with any of your post just wanted to factor in that Pop is likely close to this dude and probably wants to see him actually get better and have a future.

[MannyIsGod]

This will be the end of the spurs as we know them, if true. Then to pick up his option if more allegations were known...this has the ability to turn into a full-on show at lightning speed.

I have a hard time believing the Spurs painted this kid with the high character brush if they knew about him getting kicked out of prep school for like this. That just doesn't make any sense the way they treat draft prospects.

[SupremeGuy]

Which part of "woman" are you not reading properly?

Did you just assume their gender, bigot?

[BackHome]

Perhaps some of the contract gurus (self-described?) on this board can answer this question about the standard NBA team/player contract. Is there a "morals clause" in the standard NBA contract that provides an way for a team to get rid of a player if he violates specific items in a morals clause.
Lots of employment contracts in various industries used to have morals clauses in them, however it might be that the NBA players association got this removed from the contractual agreements at some time in negotiations. I suppose morals clauses were/are hard to enforce unless the employer can use facts like criminal prosecution as an excuse for termination. But failute to act in a prudent manner by suspension or firing might void their position vis a vis the terms of the contractual wording of the agreement. It is clear to me from his voluntary statement that Primo must have fessed up to the team officials to at least some part of the accusations.

Of course morals clauses might just be a relic of an earlier time when a Supreme Court Justice could write in an opinion about pornography, "You know it when you see it." And the moral atmosphere about sexual practices in the country today is such that any morals clause might be problematic anyway. However, so much was made of the "me too" movement some years ago that it is clear to me that any organization like the Spurs would have to move quickly on something like this or risk financial and publicity problems that would cripple the franchise. They did.

Therefore, It is ludicrous to suggest that the Spurs FO knew anything about this problem until the recent incident. No team would knowingly ignore or cover up any indications of serious sexual predation at any time, whether before the draft or during a season as now.

The Lakers Say “HI”
The Texans Say “HI”.

[BatManu20]

Primo.

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Did you just assume their gender, bigot?

Ha. Take a gander at your avi you self unaware MAGAt. You guys are like a travelling circus and your show is all about showing your ass to the world. I'm embarrassed you're even here.

[BacktoBasics]

Ha. Take a gander at your avi you self unaware MAGAt. You guys are like a travelling circus and your show is all about showing your ass to the world. I'm embarrassed you're even here.

There’s a reason society tends to marginalize these people and it has nothing to do with censorship.

[BatManu20]

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Ha. I knew this meme was coming sooner than later, no pun intended.

[Wu36]

There should have/was a code of conduct clause in his or any players contract. It sucks for any of the victims including him.

[Chinook]

112. What does it mean when a contract is voided?It's when a contract is canceled, i.e., rendered "null and void" because its terms were broken. This is not the same as merely terminating a contract by waiving the player (see question number 64). When a player is waived, some of the terms of the contract remain in effect -- for example, the player is still paid any remaining guaranteed salary. When a contract is voided, none of its terms remain in effect. It's treated the same as if the contract had never existed.Contracts might be voided under the following cir stances:
...

• When the player violates Paragraph 16 of the standard NBA contract. The team can void the contract when the player:
  
  • Fails, refuses, or neglects to conform his personal conduct to standards of good citizenship, good moral character (defined as not engaging in acts of moral turpitude, whether or not these acts cons ute a crime), and good sportsmanship.
  • Commits a significant and inexcusable physical attack against any official or employee of the team or the NBA (other than another player), or any person in attendance at any NBA game or event. The determination as to whether the attack was significant and inexcusable considers the totality of the cir stances, such as the nature of any provocation.

...

Any attempt at voiding a contract likely would be met with a grievance filed by the players association on behalf of the player. Grievance arbitrators have consistently denied attempts to void contracts. For example:

• The Boston Celtics were not allowed to void Vin Baker's contract in 2004, despite his alcohol abuse preventing him from playing, and his failure to comply with his treatment program.
• The Golden State Warriors were not allowed to void Latrell Sprewell's contract in 1997 after he choked his coach, P.J. Carlesimo.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q112

So voiding the contract won't be easy unless Primo goes to prison or something. Maybe they can get him to agree to a buyout, but he'll likely get every cent. The Spurs manage to continue having dead money on their books somehow...

[Maddog]

Listening to nba radio just now. Amin El Hassin? was implying that Primo had these issues going back to some prep school days. That he was kicked out of prep school, possibly for the same reason? That the spurs would have had to have known about that incident if he could find it without much effort.

I feel uneasy commenting on something unverified.
However both can be true. Once one episode becomes known not infrequently other seemingly isolated incidents start coming out.

[Mugen]

[SupremeGuy]

Ha. Take a gander at your avi you self unaware MAGAt. You guys are like a travelling circus and your show is all about showing your ass to the world. I'm embarrassed you're even here.

Have a great day.

[SupremeGuy]

There’s a reason society tends to marginalize these people and it has nothing to do with censorship.

Who are "these people?"

Are you against the 1A?

[Mugen]

Just to recap everything and lay out the next few years for all the short bus riders on the forum:

-The franchise that oozes arrogance about their culture and character literally picked the one guy that goes around flashing every female within 100 yards
-This is a year after their other 1st rounder was cut for a work ethic and terrible locker room guy
-3 Top 20 picks in the last few years that they lost for absolutely nothing, zero, zilch - not even a top 59 protected 2nd rounder
-Primo will 1000% be picked up by another team no later than the start of next season - and now will likely be a probably decent rotation player for some other team
-That'll be around the time Spurfan will start railing against his new team because of some holier than thou bull while the team hoists another "Classy Organization" banner
-My biggest regret is that Primo didn't get an HEB commercial where he's grilling some hot dogs or something

The only good and I mean the only good that can come out of this is if PATFO ends up having to resign or be forced out. This franchise just takes another fat L and hasn't been the same since Kawhi took one of the fattest s in sports history on them

Sell the team. Move to Vegas. Clean house in the front office and coaching staff and MAYBE this franchise sniffs relevancy again this decade

[Harry Callahan]

What’s worse than this in history?
Robertson?

Yeah, Alvin was something else all together.

[BacktoBasics]

Who are "these people?"

Are you against the 1A?

When I say “these people” I mean politically driven s like you who can’t function on a basketball forum without injecting your partisan nonsense.

Most of you people can’t do anything without it involving some precursor of politics. You infect thread and thread with you bull and for the most you’re all ty people.

[ChumpDumper]

Just to recap everything and lay out the next few years for all the short bus riders on the forum:

-The franchise that oozes arrogance about their culture and character literally picked the one guy that goes around flashing every female within 100 yards
-This is a year after their other 1st rounder was cut for a work ethic and terrible locker room guy
-3 Top 20 picks in the last few years that they lost for absolutely nothing, zero, zilch - not even a top 59 protected 2nd rounder
-Primo will 1000% be picked up by another team no later than the start of next season - and now will likely be a probably decent rotation player for some other team
-That'll be around the time Spurfan will start railing against his new team because of some holier than thou bull while the team hoists another "Classy Organization" banner
-My biggest regret is that Primo didn't get an HEB commercial where he's grilling some hot dogs or something

The only good and I mean the only good that can come out of this is if PATFO ends up having to resign or be forced out. This franchise just takes another fat L and hasn't been the same since Kawhi took one of the fattest s in sports history on them

Sell the team. Move to Vegas. Clean house in the front office and coaching staff and MAYBE this franchise sniffs relevancy again this decade

You'd prefer to keep Primo?

[Mugen]

You'd prefer to keep Primo?

Chumpy! They obviously couldn't but it's ing hilarious that your beloved front office decided to select the East Area Rapist with one of their only lottery picks in the last 30 years

[Chinook]

Chumpy! They obviously couldn't but it's ing hilarious that your beloved front office decided to select the East Area Rapist with one of their only lottery picks in the last 30 years

They literally had a higher pick the year before. Hopefully Vassell is just hurt and not caught up in this, but the importance of the Primo pick is overstated compared to their other picks. He's a miss and legal hassle, but relatively speaking, he isn't a bigger missed opportunity than James Anderson was. Anderson was a high pick admit a sea of low picks. Primo is just one of the many high and mid picks the Spurs have had recently

[Harry Callahan]

Yeah, can't say that we missed out on a potential all-star by picking Primo.
Sengun is basically Kanter 2.0, probably even worse on defense.

The 2021 draft was not that strong past the first few picks. Obviously, better options were there, but that's over and done.

I hope the SAS look at how they evaluate prospects WAY more carefully going forward. More important draft selections are coming in the next 4-5 years.

The current structure of the front office has some holes in it. Pop and R.C. are semi-checked out regarding the actual draft process and mistakes have been made with the current GM.

[ChumpDumper]

Chumpy! They obviously couldn't but it's ing hilarious that your beloved front office decided to select the East Area Rapist with one of their only lottery picks in the last 30 years

You didn't answer the question.

You'd prefer to keep Primo?