^ Good takes.
I'm kinda in the keep Jakob camp, especially if that nugget about him wanting to stay is true.
Interestingly, on Lowe's podcast he and Bobby Marks mentioned that Indiana is in a similar place with Turner (extension falls short of what he could get in the open market); but that they were perhaps considering giving him a "raise" this year using their open cap space to then extend him at the higher figure amount. Assuming that's legal, I wonder if that's possible with Jakob too.
If Jak will extend in-season, that would be a huge homerun that only increases his trade value. A top center on a cheap deal like that would not only lock up a key contributor but give us a very nice trade chip going into the future.
Not expecting the kind of trade movement we saw last season. Doug might be more valuable on an expiring next season than he is trying to trade him now.
I agree about keeping Jak unless someone gives up a unprotected pick or swap. Otherwise they should just keep him. Warriors are the one team that might surrender a unprotected swap since Jak might be the difference for another ring.
Still waiting for that first for jrich
Only 58/4 deal for Jakob? That's a bargain, sign it right away, tbh.
Even at 70 million it would be a great deal.
Maybe, but between Green and Looney, that's a virtual and complete non shooting big who will sop up the majority of the minutes at the five in the playoffs. By far the bigger need is a stretch four to replace Porter Jr.
I just meant in terms of being a big who was the second overall pick in their respective draft and being traded for very little.
No brainer: keep purtle and NEVER waver from the two UNprotected 1sts
spurs have the stong hand- they need to act like they do
worst case scenario- keep purtle and re-sign him for a pretty fair price- otherwise in 2-3 seasons spurs will be looking for a decent affordable big man and they will end up with another pau gasol disaster
Yeah, aint gonna happen unless its part of the bigger salary dump.Still waiting for that first for jrich
First rounder may be for J Rich and the Spurs taking back their hurt player or bad contract. Spurs got a protected first for Thad YoungStill waiting for that first for jrich
Finding solid centers is easy and will be made even more so by the likelihood of the Spurs picking high for at least the duration of that timeframe.
I always liked Poeltl and recognized his value from before he was traded here, but he's now went from underappreciated to overrated on this board.
Centers with greater value . . .
MVP caliber: Jokic, Embiid, Davis
All-NBA caliber: Towns, Gobert, Adebayo
All-Star caliber: Sabonis, Porzingis, Ayton
Solid starters: Allen, Mobley, Turner, Jackson Jr., Holmgren (status technically unknown, granted)
Solid starters of probably equal value: Capela, Carter Jr.
That places him tied for 15th at the most oversaturated position in the league.
OP is now getting the [Ellis] tag and has the top post on reddit /r/nba....
And that's saying something because reddit usually doesn't give a about the Spurs.
LOL Golden State acting like Wiseman has any trade value
Couldn't disagree more.
MVP caliber: obvious
All-NBA caliber:
Towns? Disgustingly bad defender.
Gobert? Disgustingly bad on offense, exposed on perimeter.
Adebayo? 35 million a year for 20/10/3 with no range? Still the best deal out of those three, which says a lot.
All-star caliber:
Sabonis? Awful defender.
Porzingis? Walking fracture.
Ayton? 35 million a year for 17/10 with no range. Solid defender.
Solid starters:
Allen? Probably my favorite non-MVP center. Great defense and rebounding, finishes everything around the rim, great FT shooter. No range. 20 million a year.
Mobley? Will surely get a max or close to it after rookie deal.
JJJ? Great range and rim protection, subpar rebounder, lacks strength. 27 a year.
There are plenty of centers, but there are very few all-defense level centers who aren't on ridiculous deals.
In today's league, you've got two options when it comes to center position. You either give the supermax to MVP level player or you get a bargain with solid starter, all-defense guy.
Everything inbetween is not worth it.
The likes of KAT, Gobert and Ayton are definitely not worth their deals. Great players, better than Jakob, but the league has moved past max contract Cs who can't carry the entire team.
Adebayo is somewhere inbetween, but still an overpay if you ask me. He got that deal because Heat expected him to improve, but he's been the same for three seasons now.
Except for MVP level guys, the only center I'd rather have than Jakob and rookie contract guys, taking their current deals into consideration is Jarrett Allen. Pretty much Jakob with FTs.
We're quite a few years away from being a serious playoff team, but if I was building a contending roster now and I can't get an elite big, I'm taking Allen, Jakob or even Robert Williams.
I'm not paying my center more than 15 to 20 million a year. No chance.
And for 15-20 million a year range, we can't get anyone better than Jakob. His FT shooting being the only issue.
Cap will e and those 20 million won't be much.
Anyone who's even close to all-star level demands a max and they're definitely not worth it in today's league.
Maybe Porzingis would be if he wasn't so injury prone.
They're still better or at least have more desirable skillsets (the reason Porzingis, Turner and Jackson Jr. superseded durability concerns but not R. Williams). You don't get to choose your stars and everything doesn't boil down to what'd be ideal or likely on a championship contender.
If he had the value commensurate with what homers think or his his catch all metrics indicate, he'd have been traded by now.
He isn't because his limitations become exacerbated in the playoffs and he's about to become significantly more expensive.
Aside from MVP level players, the only desirable skills for bigs on contending teams are rim protection, switchability, rebounding and stretching the floor.
Three out of four, and you're on a team.
Brook Lopez can't switch, but Bucks have more than enough good defenders to cover for that weakness. And guess what, he's making only 14 million a year.
All-star level bigs aren't a thing on championship teams anymore.
You don't get to choose your stars, but you get to choose who you want to keep on the roster.
Poeltl fits every single archetype of player we want to draft, because they all have one thing in common: range.
We either need a star point guard or a new nephew type of player. If we assume Devin and Keldon are two other starters, Jakob fits in perfectly.
He has value to us. Finding such good rim protector on a friendly deal (yes, 16-18 million reported in the article would be friendly) would be next to impossible for a small market team that's at the bottom of the league right now.If he had the value commensurate with what homers think or his his catch all metrics indicate, he'd have been traded by now.
There a difference between a player you want to trade and a player you would trade for a slight overpay.
If he had no limitations, he would be way more expensive and he'd cost way more. His projected deal is more than fair considering the upcoming cap e.He isn't because his limitations become exacerbated in the playoffs and he's about to become significantly more expensive.
We can agree to disagree.
My point would be that elite rim protectors who aren't a huge liability on the perimeter are hard to come by and usually demand a big overpay, which is never worth it.
Jakob fits all our needs and his projected deal would be more than fair, I see no reason why wouldn't we extend him.
Kuminga has shown some things. I’m not sure how much truth there is to the work ethic thing. He’s getting more playing time than Wiseman and Moody and possibly more playing time than both of those two combined. It can’t be that bad if he’s the one out of the three that’s managed to crack the rotation the most frequently.
It’s not out of the question that they might be fabricating the whole work ethic thing because he’s the one they want to part with the least out of those 3 young guys.
Patrick Baldwin Jr is an interesting prospect as well. It would be worth trying to work him into a deal if possible.
One thing is for sure. There is no scenario where they trade all 3 for Poeltl. If I’m GS Kuminga and and top 10 protected 1st is about their limit. Moody and 2 heavily protected 1st with 1 eventually conveying to a second sounds not far off.
I just don’t know about Wiseman. He didn’t explode in the g league but he didn’t suck either. He needs more time to develop but there are health issues etc that would have to pan out.
In a perfect world, they sign Jakob in season and draft the W. Signing IT because Vassell and KJ aren’t capable of carrying the scoring would be pretty demoralizing for the young guns right? IT was a legit bucket in the league but bringing in a 5’7 33 yr old is not a great look for the youngins, regardless of how entertaining it could be. IT would love any team that signs him, but he’d probably really love being a Spur.
Just resign poodle. Spurs wont get the deal they want so might as well keep him. Definitely not dealing him for moody and a late first
Mostly a product of roster construction and them playing better since the rotational changes.
The whole league can't contend simultaneously though. Yes, someone like Towns would be a tricky fit on a contender, but that doesn't mean he's not clearly better and more valuable overall than someone like Poeltl.
Right because if something hasn't happened recently, that means it can't period. Depends on the skillset. If it's Sabonis, no. If it's Porzingis or Ayton, possibly.
Beyond Vassel being a relatively key piece (malleability) long term, I wouldn't assume anything at this point.
Different argument. The whole point of this is to say, anyone thinking he's worth a king's ransom in a trade is fooling themselves.
Not really. We just saw Duren, who projects as that, slip to the late lottery and with where they're likely to be picking for a while, they shouldn't have much difficulty replacing him long term.
No, he doesn't. He's 27 and limited on a team more bereft of dynamic talent than any other in the league.
Last edited by TD 21; 12-07-2022 at 07:02 PM.
Towns is clearly better, but isn't more valuable for a contender. He's turning 28 this season and has proven to be even worse than Cousins when it comes to winning basketball games and having the right mentality.
He'll be making ing 50 million in a year. Sorry, but if we take contracts into consideration, Jakob for a third of the cost is more valuable.
It can if it's a team with all-star big being the third option, like it almost happened for Suns.Right because if something hasn't happened recently, that means it can't period. Depends on the skillset. If it's Sabonis, no. If it's Porzingis or Ayton, possibly.
Very few teams will ever get three all-stars. It can happen, but it's very unlikely.
I guess you're right, but wings having range is a must in today's league.Beyond Vassel being a relatively key piece (malleability) long term, I wouldn't assume anything at this point.
Why would two picks be a king's ransom? Jakob was 9th pick, he's 27 and will be on a friendly contract even after the extension.Different argument. The whole point of this is to say, anyone thinking he's worth a king's ransom in a trade is fooling themselves.
If he's traded to a legit playoff team, those two picks would be in mid to late 20s.
Of course that teams on their last legs like the Lakers don't want to give up two first rounders, but for example Toronto is a young team and those picks wouldn't be even close to the lottery.
If you want a player that's not getting traded at all costs, you overpay a bit.
Great, there are three (four if you count Jakob) in the entire league right now. They're really easy to come by.Not really. The likes of R. Williams and Allen have recently signed team friendly contracts and we just saw Duren, who projects as that, slip to the late lottery.
With that logic, noone is a good fit on the Spurs.No, he doesn't. He's 27 and limited on a team more bereft of dynamic talent than any other in the league.
You have to start somewhere. Jakob is a perfect complementary player for every young superstar we hope to get.
Hoopshype just did a piece that ranked the centers and put Poeltl 9th. Ahead of Holmgren and interestingly ahead of Turner.
Again with the contender stuff. Towns is easily more valuable. When he eventually gets traded, it'll be for a of a lot more than what Poeltl goes for.
Even if that arbitrary limitation of third option were true, being that plus the defensive anchor of a contender is very valuable.It can if it's a team with all-star big being the third option, like it almost happened for Suns.
Very few teams will ever get three all-stars. It can happen, but it's very unlikely.
I'm not specifically talking about that, but since you brought it up, you left out the operative words "lightly protected". No one is paying that cost for a center with these limitations.Why would two picks be a king's ransom? Jakob was 9th pick, he's 27 and will be on a friendly contract even after the extension.
If he's traded to a legit playoff team, those two picks would be in mid to late 20s.
Of course that teams on their last legs like the Lakers don't want to give up two first rounders, but for example Toronto is a young team and those picks wouldn't be even close to the lottery.
If you want a player that's not getting traded at all costs, you overpay a bit.
Past the '23 draft, they're virtual unknowns right now and even in that draft, a lot will change between now and then and within' their first few years of being drafted.With that logic, noone is a good fit on the Spurs.
You have to start somewhere. Jakob is a perfect complementary player for every young superstar we hope to get.
All we know is that they have an excellent chance to pick high for at least a few years, where they'll likely have the chance to select an equal or better center.
You could argue Poeltl is better than them right now, but it's close enough that their skillsets and the potential of Holmgren make them more valuable.
On the one hand it kind of makes sense not to trade Poeltl for Wiseman straight up if your ultimate goal is to get tall Tony Parker cause then there is nowhere to play Wiseman other than the backup center and I don't see a number 2 overrall pick wanting to stick around to be a backup center.
But the Poeltl and Tall Tony Parker playing together line makes no ing sense whatsoever
I thought this team had turned a corner in at least understanding how to construct a roster but I guess not.
Keeping Doug around is pretty ing stupid as well
They're probably keeping Doug till next year when he's an expiring.On the one hand it kind of makes sense not to trade Poeltl for Wiseman straight up if your ultimate goal is to get tall Tony Parker cause then there is nowhere to play Wiseman other than the backup center and I don't see a number 2 overrall pick wanting to stick around to be a backup center.
But the Poeltl and Tall Tony Parker playing together line makes no ing sense whatsoever
I thought this team had turned a corner in at least understanding how to construct a roster but I guess not.
Keeping Doug around is pretty ing stupid as well
Sometimes teams have to think ahead.
Poeltl in the warriors is perfect. He does not need to play in the clutch as warriors usually go with draymond at the end. But those first 3/4, you have a nifty passing big man and a great screener. Then the interior defense with the acceptable switching ability. Finally, the offensive rebounding is deadly for all bombers on the floor. The warriors don't need a finishing 5 players in clutch. They have that. They need to cover those first 3/4. kaminga, moodey, Wiseman are not in their playoff rotation. They will be buyers this deadline.Much better news than the last article.
The only surprise is the Warriors supposed interest in Poeltl, who'd almost certainly play a limited role and be a rental, but I guess they were hoping it was the one possibility of getting an impact player for Wiseman, who otherwise looks headed the way of Bagley III.
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