Shams: Spurs Trade for Phoenix G Cam Payne

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Thanks for clarification but that's quite complicated. lol Shows what the market now of SRPs esp. after the Spurs started doing it with the Mavs.

The deals are similar but the scale is completely different.

Spurs traded 3 decent SRPs - 2024 better of Pelicans/Bulls, 2025 Toronto and 2028 Miami for the chance to get an unprotected FRP swap in 2030. They may also recoup some value from Bullock if they re-route him.

Orlando bet 3 very bad SRPs - 2024 Denver, 2026 worst of own/Detroit/Milwaukee and 2028 Boston that is protected 31-45. They're betting that in 2026 they'll be better than both Washington and Phoenix, as Washington have the rights to swap with Phoenix first. So the possible gain for Orlando isn't nearly as big as what the Spurs got and it'll amount to nothing if they're not better than both other teams by then.

[exstatic]

No. The first swap, with Washington, gives Phoenix the lesser of the two picks as payment for Beal. Then Phoenix sold swap rights to Orlando on the pick they get (the lesser of the 2 between Phoenix and Washington), so that Orlando gets the better between that one and their own. So Phoenix is guaranteed to get THE LESSER OF THE 3. Washington or Orlando may get the better or the one in the middle, depending on where they end up, they're just guaranteed to not get the worst of the 3. For instance, say this is the order before and after swaps take place:
1) Before: WAS, ORL, PHO - After: WAS, ORL, PHO (neither swap)
2) Before: ORL, WAS, PHO - After: ORL, WAS, PHO (neither swap)
3) Before: WAS, PHO, ORL - After: WAS, ORL, PHO (only ORL swaps)
4) Before: ORL, PHO, WAS - After: ORL, WAS, PHO (only WAS swaps)
5) Before: PHO, ORL, WAS - After: WAS, ORL, PHO (only WAS swaps)
6) Before: PHO, WAS, ORL - After: WAS, ORL, PHO (both swap)
Suppose every prior scenario is equally likely (unrealistic, but indulge me for the purpose of clarity):
Washington ends up with the better pick 2/3 of the time and the middle one 1/3 or the time
Orlando ends up with the better pick 1/3 of the time and the middle one 2/3 or the time
Phoenix always ends up with the worst pick.

The times Orlando ends up with the best pick, they don’t swap, so it a useless asset. I excluded those, because they make my argument: that a secondary swap isn’t nearly as valuable as a primary swap like we got from Dallas. When ORL swaps,in this scenario, they can never get the best pick of the three.

[Ariel]

The times Orlando ends up with the best pick, they don’t swap, so it a useless asset. I excluded those, because they make my argument: that a secondary swap isn’t nearly as valuable as a primary swap like we got from Dallas. When ORL swaps,in this scenario, they can never get the best pick of the three.

They don't hold the rights to swap first, which is clearly stated when I said they hold rights to THE LESSER of those picks, but I didn't claim otherwise so...
my response was in relation to this:

They didn’t swap a pick with Orlando, they swapped a swap. Of the three picks, WSH,PHO, or their own, they get the middle pick.

which is incorrect, as stated. But if you meant to reinforce what I was saying, ok then.

[exstatic]

They don't hold the rights to swap first, which is clearly stated when I said they hold rights to THE LESSER of those picks, but I didn't claim otherwise so...
my response was in relation to this:

which is incorrect, as stated. But if you meant to reinforce what I was saying, ok then.

I wasn’t clear in that statement, and I apologize for that. BEST CASE is they get the middle pick, if they use the swap. Agreed?

[ace3g]

[Mr. Body]

I think the Spurs already owe Boston their SRP in 2024 top 55 protected.

[DPG21920]

Spurs got almost enough cash to cover all of Cams deal too.

[DPG21920]

I think the Spurs already owe Boston their SRP in 2024 top 55 protected.

Correct.

“San Antonio's 2024 2nd round pick to Boston protected for selections 31-54 (if this pick falls within its protected range and is therefore not conveyed, then San Antonio's obligation to Boston will be extinguished)”

[exstatic]

Correct.

“San Antonio's 2024 2nd round pick to Boston protected for selections 31-54 (if this pick falls within its protected range and is therefore not conveyed, then San Antonio's obligation to Boston will be extinguished)”

They've changed the protections on the pick as part of the Cam Payne trade so as not to have to use another pick.

31-49 SA
50-54 PHO
55-60 BOS

Still almost certainly will not convey to either team. It takes a while for the sites tracking picks to catch up, especially since the trade/FA season isn't over. LOVE the cash payout, too. $5.7M almost covers Cam's salary.

[DPG21920]

Yup. Was just saying that was original pick owed to bos and they did what they did to be able to trade same pick

[Mr. Body]

The Phoenix cash makes it palatable to just waive Payne if they have to. Still have to think they have something floating around like a Kyle Lowry trade but it could still fall through.

[Mr. Body]

Yup. Was just saying that was original pick owed to bos and they did what they did to be able to trade same pick

Smart that it's next year, when they won't be a top 10 team in the league.

[DPG21920]

Smart that it's next year, when they won't be a top 10 team in the league.

These trades are all upside. It’s crazy. Getting players that many teams would be happy to have for free let alone getting picks. Getting most of their salary covered so ownership isn’t paying much. Possibly being able to trade them for more capital or aggregate in bigger deal.

Really every aspect is good - even keeping them as players

[BacktoBasics]

To put it in perspective, off the top Poole got $125M (1 year younger) and Herro (2 years younger) got $120M last off season. Both are defensive liabilities who have never scored on league average efficiency.

He was in his 2nd season and rose to prominence as it wore on. I'll do you a favor and save your money for you.

The only reason he didn't get $98M is because other teams knew it'd be a waste of time.

I'm not arguing against this point. Your examples aren't a game changer for me. Poole is grossly overpaid and they couldn't get off him fast enough. Herro is overpaid as well, for all the reasons you listed.

[Mr. Body]

These trades are all upside. It’s crazy. Getting players that many teams would be happy to have for free let alone getting picks. Getting most of their salary covered so ownership isn’t paying much. Possibly being able to trade them for more capital or aggregate in bigger deal.

Really every aspect is good - even keeping them as players

Do we know yet what SRP the Suns gave us? I might have missed it.

[exstatic]

These trades are all upside. It’s crazy. Getting players that many teams would be happy to have for free let alone getting picks. Getting most of their salary covered so ownership isn’t paying much. Possibly being able to trade them for more capital or aggregate in bigger deal.

Really every aspect is good - even keeping them as players

The second apron is moving into view for some teams, and they're acting, adding cash and/or picks to get off salary while they can. That option goes away like 2 days after next regular season ends.

[DPG21920]

Do we know yet what SRP the Suns gave us? I might have missed it.

Pelicans 2025

[exstatic]

Pelicans 2025

With Zion's health, that could be in the top half of the second.

[RC_Drunkford]

like I said Brian Wright is flipping assets like he's in a trap house. Love to see it. We basically only gave up 1 second rounder for an unprotected first round swap via Dallas, Osman, Bullock and Payne and got almost Payne's entire salary in cash back. Great moves.

[mo7888]

I'm not arguing against this point. Your examples aren't a game changer for me. Poole is grossly overpaid and they couldn't get off him fast enough. Herro is overpaid as well, for all the reasons you listed.

I dont believe Herro is overpaid at all. Even with his contract he can be moved for a first. That's not an indication of being overpaid....

[CGD]

Spurs got almost enough cash to cover all of Cams deal too.

Cam definitely getting cut now. For me it always turned on how much the cash was. Basically the Spurs bought a decent SRP for little over a million.

[Chinook]

Cam definitely getting cut now. For me it always turned on how much the cash was. Basically the Spurs bought a decent SRP for little over a million.

You'd think that. But then I remember Kurt Thomas and how the Suns gave up two firsts to send his contract to Seattle before the Sonics got a third from SA to send him to the Spurs.

[CGD]

You'd think that. But then I remember Kurt Thomas and how the Suns gave up two firsts to send his contract to Seattle before the Sonics got a third from SA to send him to the Spurs.

I hear that. This current roster crunch makes it hard to see otherwise, though, unless they cut a deal to set him elsewhere before they have to hit 15. It was already so, and then add the fuzziness around the Sisoko buy out situation.

[spurraider21]

You'd think that. But then I remember Kurt Thomas and how the Suns gave up two firsts to send his contract to Seattle before the Sonics got a third from SA to send him to the Spurs.

damn so they got 3 FRPs in exchange for hanging onto kurt thomas for half a season lol

those 3 picks to seattle/okc wound up being Ibaka, Pondexter, and Beaubois

[Chinook]

I hear that. This current roster crunch makes it hard to see otherwise, though, unless they cut a deal to set him elsewhere before they have to hit 15. It was already so, and then add the fuzziness around the Sisoko buy out situation.

I think Payne is the guard most likely to be cut.

In fact this is how I'd rank the players from most likely to be cut to least:

Birch
Bullock
Osman
Payne
Rice (two-way)
Mamukelashvili
Graham
Wesley
Bassey
Cissoko (if Bruno is right)
Barlow (if re-signed)
McDermott
Collins
Champagnie
Jones
Branham
Vassell
Johnson
Sochan
Wembanyama

If we were also talking about trades (including consolidation trades and trades for value), the list would look a bit different.