Woj: Vassell 5/$146M extension

[baseline bum]

Yeah, I agree with you. And I'm not saying I want to get rid of Vassell. I'm saying he's the best trade bait we have. We can get a LOT for him.

The two unprotected 25 picks in the Cooper Flagg draft are far and away the Spurs best trade chips and are worth way more than Vassell. Those two picks would have gotten either of Lillard or Durant.

[rankingtear]

Interesting Devin has the 5th highest release point in his jumper in the whole league.

[z0sa]

Interesting Devin has the 5th highest release point in his jumper in the whole league.

And Wemby with the highest. These two guys can shoot at will

[RC_Drunkford]

1- I told u what areas. Not those u talk about …
It’s not about statistics as much as eye test. It’s more about intent that success

2- it is an issue when the goal is for everybody to share the ball and when ur highest paid player has difficulties doing it.

3- unless his salary doesn’t match his production. CBA had more impact on the contract than his productions + we need more than draft picks to trade.

4- yes and I’m not sure Vassel should be part of the rebuilding process considering all the above points.

1 - so you don't have any skill you can point out and beat around the bush talking about "intent". Do you even know what you are saying?

2 - Vassell is not the highest paid player, he's the 8th highest paid player on the team. You should do some research about what a contract extension is Also as I have shown you he's in the top 25 in assits and top 14 in TO ratio at his position in the NBA, so he has no problem sharing the ball.

3 - again, He earns 5.8 million this year and averages 18.7 points per game. His salary doesn't match his production since he's outperforming it's value by miles and should earn significantly more.

What you are talking about is his salary going forward from next season on and you don't have a clue how good he will be by then. Other people in that salary range are:

Wiggins (26 mil) Middleton (31 mil), RJ Barrett (26 mil), Ingram (36 mil), Herro (29 mil), Aaron Gordon (23 mil), Porzingis (29 mil), Jerami Grant (29 mil), Anfernee Simons (25 mil), Jaden McDaniels (23 mil)

so tell me how is he overpaid?

4 - all your points are wrong

[spurraider21]

[Sugus]

Structure isn’t built by the point guard though. It’s built by the organization. Pop has zero structure to our players and it’s killing their development. Victor should be shooting above 44%. he should have 8 freebie points a game on lobs and dunks alone. But there’s zero structure to get those. It’s not even having a PG either, we aren’t focused on that with him. Vassell shouldn’t be leading the league in hardest attempts per game with his shots, but there’s zero structure to get him the ball in easy spots or wide open looks. For some reason, Pop hasn’t figured out that by playing through Wemby, the dude will give open shots to his teammates. Having a PG next year isn’t going to change that. Sochan wasted his entire second year bc of Pop not having structure.

It’s 100% on Pop. All of this is on Pop. He needs to go. Even if we draft Topic or Collier or Dilly. Pop needs to go.

Not that I disagree that Pop has to go, but being so over-dramatic on your assessment never helps your point. How can Sochan's "entire second year" be wasted if we're not even halfway through it? And how many lobs has Wemby been getting recently? It's an adjustment season for a reason...

In any case, I'm not too worried about "this team" because it's getting major repairs in the off-season. We'll see what happens this off-season, on multiple levels; I'm expecting strong hints of a coaching change to come as well, if not an outright stepping down from Pop. My personal theory is that the "stop booing him" event was a major misstep, not because of the fans, but because many higher-ups surely still feel all sorts of ways about the Kawhi fiasco. I'm sure not everyone is as cool with Pop as the Holts are, and episodes like that one certainly raise eyebrows across the board.

[Sugus]

He'll pull it all together someday... Hopefully. But he's grown this season, beyond the current funk he's in.

[get_mills_out]

I think Vassell is twice the player Walker III ever was or will be, but I think they both have the trait of basically sleepwalking through any game they aren't 100% mentally locked in for. And I don't think that's something you can teach out of a player.

I can't think of a player that didn't "have it" upstairs early in their career, then later turning into an every night guy. If Vassell is just checked out half the time, I'm not sure what his ceiling really is. Tony Snell with a jumper? Rich man's Rodney Hood?

[KobesAchilles]

Not that I disagree that Pop has to go, but being so over-dramatic on your assessment never helps your point. How can Sochan's "entire second year" be wasted if we're not even halfway through it? And how many lobs has Wemby been getting recently? It's an adjustment season for a reason...

In any case, I'm not too worried about "this team" because it's getting major repairs in the off-season. We'll see what happens this off-season, on multiple levels; I'm expecting strong hints of a coaching change to come as well, if not an outright stepping down from Pop. My personal theory is that the "stop booing him" event was a major misstep, not because of the fans, but because many higher-ups surely still feel all sorts of ways about the Kawhi fiasco. I'm sure not everyone is as cool with Pop as the Holts are, and episodes like that one certainly raise eyebrows across the board.

How is it overdramatic? We have won 7 games out of 35. If anything it is spot on. Overdramatic would be if we were in the playoff hunt and I said Pop ruined our whole season. But if we are 7-28 and the reason is all the result of bad management, it isn’t over dramatic to say Pop wasted Sochans second year. What exactly is Sochan playing for? And don’t say paycheck bc that isn’t really enough motivation for these athletes. What exactly is Sochans role on the team? Does he know it? Did he learn PG? Nope. Did he learn SF? Nope. Did he learn PF? Nope. Has his defense improved? Nope. Has his feel for the game improved? Nope. Has his confidence improved from last season to now? Nope. Has he gelled with his current teammates on the court? Nope. The dude looks broken and nobody thought Sochan was broken before the season started.

A PG is needed. I’m not saying it isn’t needed. But we need a chief who can actually lead the team in the right direction. Not a coach who plays PFs as point guards and expects it to work. In the history of the NBA I can only think of Lebron James as the only player who didn’t need a PG on his championship team. And that was with the Heat. Literally every other championship team needs a PG and not PF pretending to be one. I’m not a genius (obviously) but if you just look at the entire history of the league and only one guy is an outlier, then what makes you think we have another guy like that? It’s just stupid.

Im thankful he finally figured out that Wemby is a Center and the offense goes through him and we should set him up correctly. I mean any idiot (and I’m the idiot) could see that before the season but I guess for Pop it just took longer.

[Sugus]

How is it overdramatic? (..) What exactly is Sochan playing for? And don’t say paycheck bc that isn’t really enough motivation for these athletes. What exactly is Sochans role on the team? Does he know it? Did he learn PG? Nope. Did he learn SF? Nope. Did he learn PF? Nope. Has his defense improved? Nope. Has his feel for the game improved? Nope. Has his confidence improved from last season to now? Nope. Has he gelled with his current teammates on the court? Nope. The dude looks broken and nobody thought Sochan was broken before the season started.

I don't know if you've been keeping up, but Sochan's play has steadily improved the past 5-10 games, and will continue trending upward. I just told you why it was over-dramatic, we're not even halfway into the season and you're already declaring all this year wasted, when he's clearly been picking up. Again I don't know if you're watching, but his decision making has improved, his two-man game with Wemby is looking great, his shot is better.... I don't have stats on me but wouldn't be surprised to see the numbers backing up the improvement. And again, not even ASB yet. "he doesn't know what he's playing for", you see? Hard to take you seriously when you say like that.

A PG is needed. I’m not saying it isn’t needed. But we need a chief who can actually lead the team in the right direction. Not a coach who plays PFs as point guards and expects it to work. In the history of the NBA I can only think of Lebron James as the only player who didn’t need a PG on his championship team. And that was with the Heat. Literally every other championship team needs a PG and not PF pretending to be one. I’m not a genius (obviously) but if you just look at the entire history of the league and only one guy is an outlier, then what makes you think we have another guy like that? It’s just stupid.

Im thankful he finally figured out that Wemby is a Center and the offense goes through him and we should set him up correctly. I mean any idiot (and I’m the idiot) could see that before the season but I guess for Pop it just took longer.

I don't know why people keep taking the literally self-called experiment as some hard-coded new permanent role for Sochan? Or why you act as if Pop has "forgotten" that he needs a PG? Just the most strawman arguments. And now what, I'm supposed to believe Pop "suddenly rembered" that a PG is needed, so he jumped in on starting Tre like it was some eureka moment?

Have you ever heard of Occam's Razor? Because all of this goes directly against it. Between believing that Pop is senile enough, and unchecked enough, both by players and his own staff, so as to start players on random positions without any plan or goal, just 'cause.... And believing he maybe, just maybe, wants to give players different roles and looks to improve their overall game... I'm taking the latter. But I can't stop you from believing a GOAT coach candidate just randomly forgets the basics of the game, I guess.

[KobesAchilles]

I don't know if you've been keeping up, but Sochan's play has steadily improved the past 5-10 games, and will continue trending upward. I just told you why it was over-dramatic, we're not even halfway into the season and you're already declaring all this year wasted, when he's clearly been picking up. Again I don't know if you're watching, but his decision making has improved, his two-man game with Wemby is looking great, his shot is better.... I don't have stats on me but wouldn't be surprised to see the numbers backing up the improvement. And again, not even ASB yet. "he doesn't know what he's playing for", you see? Hard to take you seriously when you say like that.



I don't know why people keep taking the literally self-called experiment as some hard-coded new permanent role for Sochan? Or why you act as if Pop has "forgotten" that he needs a PG? Just the most strawman arguments. And now what, I'm supposed to believe Pop "suddenly rembered" that a PG is needed, so he jumped in on starting Tre like it was some eureka moment?

Have you ever heard of Occam's Razor? Because all of this goes directly against it. Between believing that Pop is senile enough, and unchecked enough, both by players and his own staff, so as to start players on random positions without any plan or goal, just 'cause.... And believing he maybe, just maybe, wants to give players different roles and looks to improve their overall game... I'm taking the latter. But I can't stop you from believing a GOAT coach candidate just randomly forgets the basics of the game, I guess.

So Occam’s razor supports everything I said bc everything I said was simple to see. It discounts everything you say bc you are basing it off emotion. Take away emotion, not knowing how to play your star big man is bad coaching. And by not knowing how to use the franchise player, we were going to be in for rough season. That’s Occam’s razor. Not starting a player who can run the offense is bad coaching. Occam’s razor. Starting a player who never in their life has played PG probably ain’t going to work out. Occam’s Razor. Not running your offense through your best player and making him the clear primary option is bad coaching. There’s literally the entire existence of the NBA history that proves this. Occam’s razor. Occam’s razor told me that Sochan isn’t a PG, that Wemby should be the primary, that Pop should’ve had a game plan to get Wemby involved often and early in the beginning of the season, Occam’s razor told me that you could’ve just had Sochan be the secondary playmaker ala Draymond or running the point for the bench unit if you really want him to practice or grow. There were many better ways to go about this. Occam’s razor says that we need real vets on this team. Vets that can play and lead. Occam’s razor says if you win 8 games out of 42 games then you aren’t learning how to win at all despite what Pop says. Take away emotion and this is bad coaching by Pop. It just is. If Detroit Pistons drafted Wemby, has their starting center jack up more shots than him, play their PF as point guard, not run the offense through Wemby and win 8 games with this generational talent then you and everyone else would say what a ty franchise and look how badly the team is being run!

You’re young. You probably have no idea who Tom Landry is or was but I will tell you in Dallas the dude was a god. He was revered. He was the Dallas Cowboys. And he got old and sucked as a coach at the end. He is the greatest coach in Dallas history and he was fired bc at the end he was a bad coach. There was so much outrage over his firing bc of what he meant to the franchise but it was the right move. He was a bad coach. And 3 years later they won a superbowl. It’s time for Pop to be Landryd

[Sugus]

So Occam’s razor supports everything I said bc everything I said was simple to see. It discounts everything you say bc you are basing it off emotion. Take away emotion, not knowing how to play your star big man is bad coaching. And by not knowing how to use the franchise player, we were going to be in for rough season. That’s Occam’s razor. Not starting a player who can run the offense is bad coaching. Occam’s razor. Starting a player who never in their life has played PG probably ain’t going to work out. Occam’s Razor. Not running your offense through your best player and making him the clear primary option is bad coaching. There’s literally the entire existence of the NBA history that proves this. Occam’s razor. Occam’s razor told me that Sochan isn’t a PG, that Wemby should be the primary, that Pop should’ve had a game plan to get Wemby involved often and early in the beginning of the season, Occam’s razor told me that you could’ve just had Sochan be the secondary playmaker ala Draymond or running the point for the bench unit if you really want him to practice or grow. There were many better ways to go about this. Occam’s razor says that we need real vets on this team. Vets that can play and lead. Occam’s razor says if you win 8 games out of 42 games then you aren’t learning how to win at all despite what Pop says. Take away emotion and this is bad coaching by Pop. It just is. If Detroit Pistons drafted Wemby, has their starting center jack up more shots than him, play their PF as point guard, not run the offense through Wemby and win 8 games with this generational talent then you and everyone else would say what a ty franchise and look how badly the team is being run!

You’re young. You probably have no idea who Tom Landry is or was but I will tell you in Dallas the dude was a god. He was revered. He was the Dallas Cowboys. And he got old and sucked as a coach at the end. He is the greatest coach in Dallas history and he was fired bc at the end he was a bad coach. There was so much outrage over his firing bc of what he meant to the franchise but it was the right move. He was a bad coach. And 3 years later they won a superbowl. It’s time for Pop to be Landryd

Uh... Occam's razor doesn't... Work like that. It's a logical resource/tool to be used in analysis like any other, not a blanket be-all for jumping to conclusions. Experimenting with a player instead of boxing them in is not "Occam's Razor", and Pop, old and outdated as he may be, has all the right and duty in the world to experiment with him (and for all the "omgz so obvious!!" , Wemby himself doesn't consider himself a center, so). I'm not going point by point, we clearly don't see eye to eye here, and I don't care to defend Pop's coaching as I would like to see a young coach at the helm as well. Go off.

I don't think he should be fired though, I'd like to see him step down at the end of the season. And dude, my age has nothing to do with not knowing who the some random american football coach is, just like your age has nothing to do with you knowing who Marcelo Gallardo is or not americans bruh i swear

I was also coming in to say, I'm gonna shut the up on Sochan because every time I talk him up, he s the bed lol

[RC_Drunkford]

Vassell in his 4th season

Season Age Tm Lg Pos G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% 2P 2PA 2P% eFG% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
2023-24 23 SAS NBA SG 41 35 31.2 6.7 14.3 .467 2.4 6.7 .364 4.2 7.6 .558 .552 2.3 2.9 .805 0.4 3.2 3.5 3.6 1.2 0.2 1.3 1.1 18.1

Middleton in his 4th season

Season Age Tm Lg Pos G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% 2P 2PA 2P% eFG% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
2015-16 24 MIL NBA SG 79 79 36.1 6.4 14.5 .444 1.8 4.6 .396 4.6 9.9 .466 .507 3.5 3.9 .888 0.6 3.3 3.8 4.2 1.7 0.2 2.3 2.6 18.2

[CGD]

Had a of a game last night. His shots still look unnecessarily hard, but they go in at a high clip

[The Truth #6]

He has great footwork. Has worked really hard on his offensive game because that's what got him his contract. But he's an overachiever it feels like, which is great mostly, but it seems like he lacks burst and relies on his craft. I don't know. With better players on the team hopefully he'll find the right balance of when to score.

Last night everyone seemed to be moving the ball somewhat better which made the offense look better. Anyway, his contract is probably too high for his best role on a championship team but lots of time to figure this out.

[r0drig0lac]

he's Rip Hamilton playing in 20'

[LeBowen]

The shots he takes are so difficult because he's the only legit perimeter threat in the starting lineup.
I guess Champagnie is also a solid 3pt shooter, but teams don't really care about a borderline NBA player.
Tre, Jeremy and Wemby are left wide open and dared to shoot.

With better spacing he'd get way better shots.
The only concern is that he doesn't develop the hero ball mentality and chucks from difficult positions when it's not necessary.

Unless Spurs can fleece someone, he shouldn't be moved until we see what he can do on a competent roster.

[Atl Spur]

Once he figures out he belongs ( like white did ) watch out! I’m more concerned about him elevating his defense more than anything else.

[CGD]

he's Rip Hamilton playing in 20'

That would be awesome. He’s needs to learn to run off screens like Rip did to make the comp work better. I actually see more Allen Houston given the footwork.

[spurraider21]

He’s the anti branham in that even when it looks inevitable his jumpers just refuse to be blocked.

[RC_Drunkford]

once we have a real PG he's gon explode

He has great footwork. Has worked really hard on his offensive game because that's what got him his contract. But he's an overachiever it feels like, which is great mostly, but it seems like he lacks burst and relies on his craft. I don't know. With better players on the team hopefully he'll find the right balance of when to score.

Last night everyone seemed to be moving the ball somewhat better which made the offense look better. Anyway, his contract is probably too high for his best role on a championship team but lots of time to figure this out.

he makes 5.8 million this year. The extension kicks in next season.

[Raven]

He looks like a pretty great #3

[SupremeGuy]

he's Rip Hamilton playing in 20'

man I remember Rip being way better but stats don't lie lol

[LeBowen]

man I remember Rip being way better but stats don't lie lol

Tbh, stats in modern NBA are ridiculously inflated.
Lebron has almost identical averages and shooting splits to what he had 10 years ago and he's not even 30% of the player he used to be.

Eye test is the only thing that matters.

[poopbox]

I'm still concerned about his inability to get to the rim. His jumper was wet last night but when it's not it's ugly for him.