2024 NBA Draft Thread

[Truckules]

Collier definitely seems like an anti-Spur but I think the narrative about him is baked in at this point and lacks some nuance, such as he seems to have made progress after coming back from his hand injury. Playing next to Bronny and his circus is not a valid excuse for playing ty defense, but could be a part of their weirdly disastrous season. He was highly touted for some reasons. Is likely being underappreciated like Keyonte last year broadly speaking. But still not worth an 8 pick I would say. But does fit some obvious needs for this team. Also, he has flashes of great passing, possibly more than Devin or Reed, just very inefficient.

I don't think much is known of his personality other than he doesn't smile much. Spurs obviously have greater insight then we do.

I think context matters with him much more than most other prospects. He was a freshman shouldering a large offensive load on an awful team with a coach who seems to have been checked out. I think a large part of his inefficiency and lack of effort on D is due to cir stance. I'm reminded of Ant Edwards in college who also inefficiently shouldered most of the offensive load on a bad team and didn't put much effort in on defense as a result. Obviously, he doesn't have the ceiling that Ant did which is why he's in the back half of the lottery rather than the first pick, but I do agree that there's nuance that lots of people seem to be missing.

[BatManu20]

You know, watching more and more Topic film I really think he could become something special long term. He has that Luka type playmaking style that is really nice, and he's a great free throw shooter and finisher. I have faith in his ability to become a consistent 3 point shooter. He also reminds me of a less athletic but more shifty Tony Parker.

His game is nothing like TP's tbh. TP was small but lightning quick and his game was predicated on floaters and tear drops. Most scouts have compared Topic to a taller version of Goran Dragic, which is a good comp imo. When you watch their tapes, it's easy to see the similarities. Both are excellent passers who excel in PnR. Both really like to get downhill and attack the basket. Both are crafty scorers once they get to the cup. Neither can defend much. Dragic was a considerably better 3-point shooter than Topic is right now, but Dragic also came into the league as a 22 year-old, which makes you hope Topic can get there with time. People tend to forget how good of an offensive player Goran Dragic was though. He made a couple All-Star Games as a Reserve for a reason. Guy could really hoop.

If you could somehow guarantee that Topic would end up being as good as Dragic was then I would take him at 4. Not kidding. The problem is Topic's shooting isn't near Dragic's and there's no guarantee it'll get there (though it may), and those knee injuries are red flags imo. The kid can't seem to stay on the court. Maybe it's just bad luck on his part and he winds up having a long career like Dragic did -- Who knows. But that's the gamble you're taking with him.

[Mr. Body]

I think context matters with him much more than most other prospects. He was a freshman shouldering a large offensive load on an awful team with a coach who seems to have been checked out. I think a large part of his inefficiency and lack of effort on D is due to cir stance. I'm reminded of Ant Edwards in college who also inefficiently shouldered most of the offensive load on a bad team and didn't put much effort in on defense as a result. Obviously, he doesn't have the ceiling that Ant did which is why he's in the back half of the lottery rather than the first pick, but I do agree that there's nuance that lots of people seem to be missing.

Honestly, I don't think I'm missing any context whatsoever. Collier's game depends entirely on one set of skills. He does have great speed and has a build that can be hard to handle when he's going downhill. He does have skills. His finishing was poor and he barely dunked for such a driving force - not great signs - but okay.

The problem is his core skillset is something NBA teams would loooooove to give him all the time. For example, I see him mocked to Miami a lot. Not a Heat player, really, but okay. Opponents would love to see him come into the game and just start trying to get downhill and draw fouls or spray bad passes around. That would be excellent compared to any other shot that could happen. Not getting anyone involved, low efficiency, very predictable.

When your key skills are things pro teams would salivate to just let you do, over and over, that's a really bad thing. An underrated problem for prospects. "Why yes, we would love Isaiah to keep doing this. Please keep doing this."

Add his very poor defense, which isn't just upright and slow and stuff, but low energy and uninvolved, these are extremely bad signs. He has enough that someone's going to give him a shot, and then another team is going to give him a shot, but he has a lot of boxes he'll have to tick before he starts getting where you even start wanting him to be. I think his defense is potentially way worse than Dillingham's. With RD, he at least has quickness and has effort and some buy-in and improvement. Still awful, but there's upside there. I don't think there's upside to Collier's defense. Lost cause.

[SpursBills]

Where does everyone stand on Collier at this point? I know his freshman year was a little underwhelming but he still showed some serious flashes of potential. I’d go with him over someone like Salaun if we’re just shooting for total upside at pick 8. Not my first choice but he’s not out of the question IMO.

I think he’ll put up numbers but I have serious questions about his decision making which is my number one criteria for being a useful playoff performer so I personally would avoid him. The keldon Johnson of guards if you will

[mo7888]

Both Topic at 8 and Castle at 4 with Topic even being better will improve enough on their perimeter shooting not to be liabilities. Topic as the better playmaker and Castle as a stronger defender with both being able to play PG.

Both would be great picks for the Spurs if drafted together, would complement each other along with Vassell in a three guard rotation.

Spurs will be set at the guards if they come away with both Castle and Topic in this year's draft.

How do you see those two working together? One coming off the bench or moving Devin in trade?

[rascal]

How do you see those two working together? One coming off the bench or moving Devin in trade?

Castle will begin the year as the starter at pg with the Topic injury. Will see how Topic's injury progresses but he'll get off to a slower start than Castle.

Topic will eventually work his way into playing pg with Castle moving over to play some at both the 1 and 2.

[JPB]

Modern, yet not infallible. Non-contact injuries of any sort can be worrisome.

And (ofc) Ball opted in his 21M player option for next year.

[SpursFan86]

I think he’ll put up numbers but I have serious questions about his decision making which is my number one criteria for being a useful playoff performer so I personally would avoid him. The keldon Johnson of guards if you will

That’s fair. I’m not a huge fan of his but I do think the ceiling is there with him if he puts it all together (big “if”, obviously). Could be Tyrese Maxey-esque in his best case scenario. I just don’t really see Salaun as much of a safer bet at all, and don’t really think the ceiling is higher either.

Anyways, I keep waffling on Topic but now am starting to be back on the train of wanting him (especially at #8). Grabbing Castle or Sheppard at #4 and Topic at #8 would be a great draft.

[LeBowen]

No, it wouldn't.

I've asked many times and not a single poster who wants Sheppard ever replied.
How would you fit him into this roster?

If we assume that Devin and Wemby as starters are set in stone, how exactly would you fit Sheppard in there?
We need a point of attack defender for star point guards. We need spacing and we need someone to run the team, an actual playmaker.

Sheppard offers just spacing and takes up a guard position, meaning that he'd be a viable solution only if it's Castle+Sheppard draft combo, but odds of either one being available at #8 are very low.
But there's also a question mark above Castle's playmaking skills, he's not a point guard as of now. And neither is Sheppard.
Having Castle would also mean Jeremy has to move to the bench and we'd need another shooter at PF.

Sheppard is a good fit only for teams that have a point guard (forward) with size.
Finding undersized shooters that don't do much else is fairly easy.

?-Devin-?-?-Wemby
Two ? have to be good defenders.
Two ? have to be good shooters.
One ? has to be a POA defender.
One ? has to be a primary playmaker.

Obviously, one player can fill more than one need.
Adding Jeremy to the starting lineup makes things even more difficult.
If we're to win some actual basketball games, that is.

[JPB]

They're being compared because Topic is from the same region and has good size for the position.

While Topic has too many red flags for my liking, his offensive ceiling is just the type we need.
Pass first floor general who can score if needed.

Thats one of my issues with Topic. I'm not seeing a floor general or playmaker in him. I do'nt see him being able to create much in the NBA. and just my gut feeling but I don't believe spurs are that high on him.

He may be benefitting from the "Luka" effect, plus the way he's been playing in a team on a minor league build to showcase him vs. pretty weak opposition. I would look good too in the ABA League tbh Anyway, he's much closer to Teodosic or Micic than Luka to me.

We'll see but I personnally hope spurs stay away.

[ChumpDumper]

When you'vebeen traded 3 times maybe (and still, listen to guys talk about it, that always remains some kind of traumatism, specially if you have a family. There are interesting articles about it), but as a young guy who's never been through that process and only knew one team, that's different. You can hear about it all you want, you have to personnally grow through that kind of experience life to really understand it.

Yu can say it's a business, you're tough and all but that's kind of humiliating too to hear you're expandable and your team put you in a big bag of trash they'd had no problem dumping.

That's what the money is for. Cry me a river.

[Mr. Body]

Thats one of my issues with Topic. I'm not seeing a floor general or playmaker in him. I do'nt see him being able to create much in the NBA. and just my gut feeling but I don't believe spurs are that high on him.

He may be benefitting from the "Luka" effect, plus the way he's been playing in a team on a minor league build to showcase him vs. pretty weak opposition. I would look good too in the ABA League tbh Anyway, he's much closer to Teodosic or Micic than Luka to me.

We'll see but I personnally hope spurs stay away.

This really nails it for me too. There's not much to his game, not much manipulation, a lot of advantage over poor opposition. He even does that, back up for twenty feet thing like a wind up car, then go real fast at the defender who barely moves. None of his passes look anything different than what the Kentucky guards are doing and at least they are superb shooters. Even his height is a bit of a facade since it's all neck.

If he was from Taiwan playing this way, he'd not get the next Doncic shine. Just feel like he and Rizz have pretty limited skills and even within those skillsets they only seem pretty good. Now obviously he's been scouted extensively, but the tape doesn't show those things.

[JPB]

That's what the money is for. Cry me a river.

they'll sure survive but I'm not seeing this so much from a player perspective than how it can affect a team. And there's stuff money can't buy. Spurs are already a dysfunctional team, if only Wemby and Devin know or believe they're safe, good luck prasing team ball as a coach to the rest of the roster who will just focus on their own ass, stats and contract (which is exactly what Graham has been doing this year).

I mean one or two players being shopped is OK... 90% of your roster expandable is pretty brutal, specially for guys like Sochan, Keldon or Tre who might have perceived themselves as more important for that team and could suddenly be labeled as "not good enough to play with Wemby, or in a compe ive team"... There might even be some resentment towards Victor, not like we felt tremendous chemistry last year. If 90% of your roster doesn't give a , you have a problem, unless you're tanking... which spurs might be doing next year again.

[ChumpDumper]

they'll sure survive but I'm not seeing this so much from a player perspective than how it can affect a team. And there's stuff money can't buy. Spurs are already a dysfunctional team, if only Wemby and Devin know or believe they're safe, good luck prasing team ball as a coach to the rest of the roster who will just focus on their own ass, stats and contract (which is exactly what Graham has been doing this year).

I mean one two players being shopped is OK... 90% of your roster expandable is pretty brutal, specially for guys like Sochan, Keldon or Tre who might have perceived themselves as more important for that team and could suddenly be labeled as "not good enough to play with Wemby, or in a compe ive team"... There might even be some resentment towards Victor, not like we felt tremendous chemistry last year. If 90% of your roster doesn't give a , you have a problem, unless you're tanking... which spurs might be doing next year again.

It's worse if they all feel untouchable and continue to suck.

[exstatic]

they'll sure survive but I'm not seeing this so much from a player perspective than how it can affect a team. And there's stuff money can't buy. Spurs are already a dysfunctional team, if only Wemby and Devin know or believe they're safe, good luck prasing team ball as a coach to the rest of the roster who will just focus on their own ass, stats and contract (which is exactly what Graham has been doing this year).

I mean one or two players being shopped is OK... 90% of your roster expandable is pretty brutal, specially for guys like Sochan, Keldon or Tre who might have perceived themselves as more important for that team and could suddenly be labeled as "not good enough to play with Wemby, or in a compe ive team"... There might even be some resentment towards Victor, not like we felt tremendous chemistry last year. If 90% of your roster doesn't give a , you have a problem, unless you're tanking... which spurs might be doing next year again.

Do you really think players not named Durant read Twitter and take seriously what a bunch of randos are saying? I also doubt the whole roster is being “shopped”. That implies that the Spurs are making calls trying to offload guys. My guess is that they’re taking calls and listening, but that’s a whole other thing from shopping players around.

[SpursDynasty85]

This really nails it for me too. There's not much to his game, not much manipulation, a lot of advantage over poor opposition. He even does that, back up for twenty feet thing like a wind up car, then go real fast at the defender who barely moves. None of his passes look anything different than what the Kentucky guards are doing and at least they are superb shooters. Even his height is a bit of a facade since it's all neck.

If he was from Taiwan playing this way, he'd not get the next Doncic shine. Just feel like he and Rizz have pretty limited skills and even within those skillsets they only seem pretty good. Now obviously he's been scouted extensively, but the tape doesn't show those things.

Two things that are going for him. He's 6'6'. No one anywhere near his size in this draft has the fluidity of handle and paint penetration. Second he is only 18 years old. Injury concerns are the only downside I see. NBA compe ion could make him even more injury prone.

[LeBowen]

Do you really think players not named Durant read Twitter and take seriously what a bunch of randos are saying? I also doubt the whole roster is being “shopped”. That implies that the Spurs are making calls trying to offload guys. My guess is that they’re taking calls and listening, but that’s a whole other thing from shopping players around.

There Is One Former Spur Who Gets Triggered By What A Bunch Of Randos Say.

[Mugen]

[LeBowen]

Was pretty obvious they're hiding something after his injury.
Journalists reported he'll need a surgery right away, his team made a statement that he won't.
Damn, no chance Wizards take him now.

[rascal]

No, it wouldn't.

I've asked many times and not a single poster who wants Sheppard ever replied.
How would you fit him into this roster?

If we assume that Devin and Wemby as starters are set in stone, how exactly would you fit Sheppard in there?
We need a point of attack defender for star point guards. We need spacing and we need someone to run the team, an actual playmaker.

Sheppard offers just spacing and takes up a guard position, meaning that he'd be a viable solution only if it's Castle+Sheppard draft combo, but odds of either one being available at #8 are very low.
But there's also a question mark above Castle's playmaking skills, he's not a point guard as of now. And neither is Sheppard.
Having Castle would also mean Jeremy has to move to the bench and we'd need another shooter at PF.

Sheppard is a good fit only for teams that have a point guard (forward) with size.
Finding undersized shooters that don't do much else is fairly easy.

?-Devin-?-?-Wemby
Two ? have to be good defenders.
Two ? have to be good shooters.
One ? has to be a POA defender.
One ? has to be a primary playmaker.

Obviously, one player can fill more than one need.
Adding Jeremy to the starting lineup makes things even more difficult.
If we're to win some actual basketball games, that is.

Sochan is a drain in the stating lineup. He should be coming off the bench.

[Ariel]

Modern, yet not infallible. Non-contact injuries of any sort can be worrisome.

Ball has cartilage and meniscus gone, leaving bone on bone.
That’s very different from a ligament injury, which is totally repairable in today’s medical world.

Lonzo has been dealing with multiple meniscus injuries for years and regularly had procedures done, his condition became so bad that he recently underwent a meniscus transplant in hopes of playing again. There are 2 types of meniscus surgeries: removal of the torn meniscus portion (meniscectomy) or repair of the torn meniscus. The former's recovery time is faster than the latter (think Embiid recovery time vs Vassell's) but can have long term effects on the knee, as you're removing part of the tissue that helps keep the knee's stability by absorbing and redistributing weight and avoids bones from grinding against each other. In time that ac ulates and can affect cartilage as well, with recurring injuries and surgeries that lead to bone on bone knees (Lonzo Ball, Brandon Roy). That is worse than your typical ACL tear.

PS: not health professional, just read up on it.

[buttsR4rebounding]

Lonzo has been dealing with multiple meniscus injuries for years and regularly had procedures done, his condition became so bad that he recently underwent a meniscus transplant in hopes of playing again. There are 2 types of meniscus surgeries: removal of the torn meniscus portion (meniscectomy) or repair of the torn meniscus. The former's recovery time is faster than the latter (think Embiid recovery time vs Vassell's) but can have long term effects on the knee, as you're removing part of the tissue that helps keep the knee's stability by absorbing and redistributing weight and avoids bones from grinding against each other. In time that ac ulates and can affect cartilage as well, with recurring injuries and surgeries that lead to bone on bone knees (Lonzo Ball, Brandon Roy). That is worse than your typical ACL tear.

PS: not health professional, just read up on it.

There is no hope. I can't think of another player that has been out as long as he has with an injury that comes back as anything worthwhile. Even if the surgery is 100% successful the degradation of skills over this time will be a career-killer.

[Ariel]

There is no hope. I can't think of another player that has been out as long as he has with an injury that comes back as anything worthwhile. Even if the surgery is 100% successful the degradation of skills over this time will be a career-killer.

I don't disagree with you. At this point he should have well over $50M in the bank (his current contract was $80M) so he should just focus on having a healthy, pain free life outside of professional sports.

[JPB]

I don't disagree with you. At this point he should have well over $50M in the bank (his current contract was $80M) so he should just focus on having a healthy, pain free life outside of professional sports.

Derrick Rose came back, although as a different player, and Ball is still young, but yeah if he can't make it after this year, you probably call it a career (or sign in the ABA League).

[LeBowen]

Sochan is a drain in the stating lineup. He should be coming off the bench.

That's why I didn't mention him in the starting lineup, he just makes things worse.
But Castle would be just another Sochan.