Woj: Dejounte Murray Traded to Pelicans for Larry Nance Jr, Dyson Daniels and Picks

[z0sa]

I believe there is a way to add two stars now, but from a cap perspective one of them needs to be an older Vet on his last big deal, something like a 3-year max for PG13. That way the Vet's max is rolling off when you need to start paying Wemby his max in addition to potentially Vassell's next deal.

Trae and Lauri doesn't work (IMO, completely ignoring on-the-court fit and just looking at salary) because if it works (and why would you do it if it doesn't work?) then you'll be forced to break it up in order to resign Wemby. At least with a PG13-like deal, you know it's short term.

But rather than a second Max with Lauri, I'd rather us trade for him and then go for a Khris Middleton-like player. Old, more short-term, but not a max player. I don't like Klay AT ALL, but even someone like him would be a better fit.

Castle
Vassell
Middleton or Klay
Lauri
Wemby

Now you have a starting lineup with better spacing and you're not pairing Castle with another poor shooter in Sochan.

One can only dream. That team, even in its first season together would be legit 2nd rounder fodder

Only thing that scares me about Lauri is his lack of GP. He's had as many seasons with games played in the 50s as the 60s. If he could do 65+ every year, I'd say it's a no brainer even at max and let the rest of the pieces fall where they may.

[Redshadows]

ATL now have their first-round picks from 2028 to 2031 and first-round picks in 2025 (via the Los Angeles Lakers), 2025 (via the Los Angeles Sacramento Kings), 2027 (via the worst pick between the Milwaukee Bucks and Pelicans).

They can make a trade for Lauri Markkanen if they can convince him to sign a new contract.

For instance, unprotected first-round picks form ATL in 2029 and 2031, first-round picks in 2025 from LAL and SAC, first-round picks in 2027 from MIL or NO for Lauri Markkanen.

I assume if ATL could not get their picks back from the Spurs while Trae Young threaten ATL that he want to be traded if the team don't become better enough.

ATL can't tank without those picks from the Spurs, so they might have to become more aggressive to get a star level player even if the trade cost more than usual.

[SpursFan86]

I keep coming back to…

Every team he was on got better when he left. He might just be a tall better shooting version of Dejounte, a guy who doesn’t move the needle. An All Star imposter. If you’re looking for a shooting forward, just go get Cam Johnson. He’s a better shooter, and would be much cheaper.

What am I missing here? Markannen didn’t really break out until the 2022-2023 season. Since then, pretty much every metric points to him being a considerably high impact player and the Jazz are far better with him on the court (+10 net rating over the past 2 seasons vs. when he’s not playing).

I also don’t know if Cam Johnson is a better shooter at this point. Over the past 2 seasons they’ve shot pretty much identically from 3 but Lauri has done it on more volume. Lauri has a better mid-range game too although neither of them take many attempts there. Lauri gets to the FT line at a better rate and has more of a game outside of 3 point shooting.

If you want to argue that Markannen isn’t worth giving up X, or that player Y is a better target at cost, then that’s fine. But acting like Markannen is some scrub who puts up empty stats or that he wouldn’t make this team considerably better is a little ridiculous. He’s pretty much the picture perfect PF to pair alongside Wemby.

[R. DeMurre]

Please never compare the gleague to an elite NCAA program.

One of Daniels problems was that he couldn’t get time. That won’t be an issue with Castle.

Scouting involves comparisons, and you can only compare what's available. there's no avoiding it. Using your logic, I couldn't compare Kentucky player Kevin Knox in 2018 to the G-league showing of Derrick White.

[Kevin]

Yes... they'll be affordable for the next three years, but not after that. That's my point. You'll be paying a premium for Trae and Lauri's youth, but not able to take advantage of it because you'll have to break them up when Wemby's extension kicks in.

Front load Lauri’s deal as much as possible. Back load Wemby’s deal as much as possible. Off load Dev for picks after the three year window is complete. I think they can keep it together for 5-7 years.

I know people want some unquestionable 20 year le window but no such thing exists.

[RC_Drunkford]

Paying Lauri makes only sense if you front load his deal. That way you have more cap room when Wemby gets extended and Markkanen‘s contract becomes a decent one.

As of Trae Young, it depends on the price. He could make sense, but do not give away the 25 ATL or Spurs picks. No way. And if you extend him frontload that deal too.

[baseline bum]

For anyone concerned about paying Lauri... he's going to sign a max deal next year, he's a max-level player in this NBA. If you don't want him because you don't think he's good enough, then that's fine. But if you want him, you're going to have to pay the max, because that's what he is. This is going to be true of any "second star". We have to get used to this idea and not be afraid of a massive deal.

IMO, Lauri is definitely worth the max he'll command and is THE perfect fit based on on-the-court fit AND availability. There might be other max players who you think would be better to add, but are any of them actually able to be acquired? Luka, SGA, Giannis, Maxey, Halli, etc, etc, etc. are NOT getting traded. Lauri, on the other hand, you can get. Trae Young is the other most-available player, and we all generally agree we don't want him.

I'm kind of lukewarm on him, especially for what he'll cost in both draft capital and in dollars. Booker would be my favorite target but it'll require Phoenix dumping Durant to Houston first.

[baseline bum]

Paying Lauri makes only sense if you front load his deal. That way you have more cap room when Wemby gets extended and Markkanen‘s contract becomes a decent one.

As of Trae Young, it depends on the price. He could make sense, but do not give away the 25 ATL or Spurs picks. No way. And if you extend him frontload that deal too.

Nah he's going to demand 5 year max and he'll have all the leverage to get it since the Spurs would have traded a ton to get him.

[Ice009]

I'm not a big on Lauri Markkanen. I don't think anyone one ever thought he was anything like a top 3 player on a Championship team a few years ago. I know he's improved a lot since then, but still, don't know I'd want to pay him the type of money he'll likely ask for and get. I could be wrong, but I'd say no if it were my choice.

[exstatic]

What am I missing here? Markannen didn’t really break out until the 2022-2023 season. Since then, pretty much every metric points to him being a considerably high impact player and the Jazz are far better with him on the court (+10 net rating over the past 2 seasons vs. when he’s not playing).

I also don’t know if Cam Johnson is a better shooter at this point. Over the past 2 seasons they’ve shot pretty much identically from 3 but Lauri has done it on more volume. Lauri has a better mid-range game too although neither of them take many attempts there. Lauri gets to the FT line at a better rate and has more of a game outside of 3 point shooting.

If you want to argue that Markannen isn’t worth giving up X, or that player Y is a better target at cost, then that’s fine. But acting like Markannen is some scrub who puts up empty stats or that he wouldn’t make this team considerably better is a little ridiculous. He’s pretty much the picture perfect PF to pair alongside Wemby.

I kinda was doing that. Markannen isn’t a scrub, but Cam is under team control for three more years at like $21M. I don’t think Lauri is twice as good, but he’ll cost twice as much, plus more picks to get.

[spurraider21]

What am I missing here? Markannen didn’t really break out until the 2022-2023 season. Since then, pretty much every metric points to him being a considerably high impact player and the Jazz are far better with him on the court (+10 net rating over the past 2 seasons vs. when he’s not playing).

I also don’t know if Cam Johnson is a better shooter at this point. Over the past 2 seasons they’ve shot pretty much identically from 3 but Lauri has done it on more volume. Lauri has a better mid-range game too although neither of them take many attempts there. Lauri gets to the FT line at a better rate and has more of a game outside of 3 point shooting.

If you want to argue that Markannen isn’t worth giving up X, or that player Y is a better target at cost, then that’s fine. But acting like Markannen is some scrub who puts up empty stats or that he wouldn’t make this team considerably better is a little ridiculous. He’s pretty much the picture perfect PF to pair alongside Wemby.

Lauri gets to the line a lot because he's also excelling at punishing closeouts and is a very aggressive dunker when driving down the lane

[scott]

I'm kind of lukewarm on him, especially for what he'll cost in both draft capital and in dollars. Booker would be my favorite target but it'll require Phoenix dumping Durant to Houston first.

I'd personally put Booker in my list of players who aren't available and probably won't come available, at least not for San Antonio. If he gets traded, it will probably be because he demands a trade to a big market. I could be wrong, but that's my feeling on booker.

[scott]

Lauri is significantly better than someone like Cam Johnson - like, the difference between a max player and a $21MM year player (which will clearly play out, next off season). This is easily borne out in the advanced stats in addition to the counting stats. Cam Johnson is a good choice if you truly feel like Vassell is a second star and you want to fill the team with role players. At that point you're basically going the Solo Superstar Model around Wemby. Maybe that's the right build... Wemby is definitely special enough.

I will say Cam Johnson's $21MM/yr is a much better deal than Zach Collins' $17MM/year.

[TrainOfThought5]

Front load Lauri’s deal as much as possible. Back load Wemby’s deal as much as possible. Off load Dev for picks after the three year window is complete. I think they can keep it together for 5-7 years.

I know people want some unquestionable 20 year le window but no such thing exists.

Let me tell you about a guy named Tim Duncan.

[spurraider21]

Tbh I don’t get this notion of “we all generally don’t want Trae”. There was a Trae thread during the season where at least half of the posters in it were OK with getting Trae. Not sure why that would change now.

makes less sense with castle. Trae is a small harden. needs spacing/shooting around him.

[BackHome]

Lauri gets to the line a lot because he's also excelling at punishing closeouts and is a very aggressive dunker when driving down the lane

Lauris is a good player my only issue with him is his injury history which is why I didn't want him when Chicago was shopping him around.

[Spurs Homer]

I call BS on him wanting to come to SA - I think he said that for two reason 1. He wanted to piss off the Spurs players by basically saying they don't know how to play basketball as they can't even throw a pass to Wemby. 2. He is just trying to use leverage to get him the best deal with the Hawks as far as money or them bringing in talent

He wasnt wrong - he played against the spurs and sochan,vassell, tre jones, et al - missed lob after lob after pass after pass after lob -

even in that 1 game against the hawks...

he also tried to befriend wemby at the all star game and has been pretty open about his admiration of wemby - even going so far as to explain how he is not just a one dimensional player and would do whatever a team needed - whether it was just facilitating or as a scorer -

not really a mystery

[R. DeMurre]

What am I missing here? Markannen didn’t really break out until the 2022-2023 season. Since then, pretty much every metric points to him being a considerably high impact player and the Jazz are far better with him on the court (+10 net rating over the past 2 seasons vs. when he’s not playing).

I also don’t know if Cam Johnson is a better shooter at this point. Over the past 2 seasons they’ve shot pretty much identically from 3 but Lauri has done it on more volume. Lauri has a better mid-range game too although neither of them take many attempts there. Lauri gets to the FT line at a better rate and has more of a game outside of 3 point shooting.

If you want to argue that Markannen isn’t worth giving up X, or that player Y is a better target at cost, then that’s fine. But acting like Markannen is some scrub who puts up empty stats or that he wouldn’t make this team considerably better is a little ridiculous. He’s pretty much the picture perfect PF to pair alongside Wemby.

Agreed. I think it's clear he's easily a top 30 player in the league, and at the very least rates at a level with Jamal Murray, Aaron Gordon, Tyrese Maxey, Kyrie Irving, or whoever you consider the #2 guys on Minnesota, Indiana, or most other playoff teams... The Spurs have their #1 guy in Wemby, so if Lauri and someone else are 2a & 2b, they're in the conversation for going beyond the 2nd round of the playoffs. Anyone who thinks he's one dimensional hasn't been watching him the last two seasons and is letting vague impressions of his years from ages 20-23 cloud their perception. He's the only guy in NBA history to have 200 3 pointers and 100 dunks in one season, his midrange percentages are excellent, and his offensive win shares last year were higher than Tatum and Curry. His pairing with Victor would be a match made in heaven.

[Chomag]

I wouldn’t hate going after CJ McCollum, think he’d fit well on the Spurs and his expensive contract will expire before having to pay Wemby.

This, I have no idea why CJ never seems to get any buzz here. I feel like he would be a great fit on this roster.

[TD 21]

I thought the Hawks would get more, but it's not as bad as it's being made out to be either.

I don't think Dyson Daniels was that much worse than Dejounte Murray last season - he actually graded out as a more impactful player. People are underestimating just how terrible Dejounte was last season. Larry Nance has consistently graded out as a positive player. Now they take Murray's wasted possessions where he chucks a mid-range jumper and shunt them to Trae who's a way better playmaker; I think that Hawks team fits better on paper now with how their role players work around Trae. They're not going very far in the post-season, but it's a tall order to expect them to be a bottom tier team.

Agreed, though the roster isn't settled. Hunter, Capela and Nance Jr. are all trade candidates.

I actually like Dyson Daniels, but I think it's noteworthy to point out his archetype similarity to Castle. In the G league, DD was a good defender with size who could handle the ball and pass, but shot 25% from three, and people said if he ever developed an outside shot he might be a star. In the last two seasons, his 3pt% has improved, up to 31%. He's still young and improving, but he was still the 3rd string PG for New Orleans. I'm rooting for Castle, but I think people who are absolutely certain of his future success are definitely overselling him.

I utilized him, among many others, to illustrate the relatively low ceiling (in relation to where they're often selected) / high bust rate archetype of this style of player, but most were too busy guzzling the Spurs mystique Kool-Aid to adhere to it.

Daniels is also taller, longer, more athletic and provides "event creation" defensively and is still a non starter, who'd have a tough time playing more than spot minutes in the playoffs if he were on a championship contender.

[Mr. Body]

I like the ATL trade in a vacuum, wiping away memory of what they spent to take Dejounte. Dyson will be a nice fit, not demanding the ball and giving near-elite defense alongside Trae's shortcomings. Nance is a nice impactful player. Those two picks will defray the loss of their own picks.

And the team returns to being Trae centric. He'll love that.

For our purposes, it just takes another Trae injury to get a great pick, as they don't have a secondary playmaker to pick up the slack.

[baseline bum]

I'd personally put Booker in my list of players who aren't available and probably won't come available, at least not for San Antonio. If he gets traded, it will probably be because he demands a trade to a big market. I could be wrong, but that's my feeling on booker.

I don't think he'll be available this year, but Phoenix is going to eventually blow it up and probably after another disappointing season this year. Their payroll is just insane and 5-seed in the west is probably their ceiling. I expect them to trade Durant to Houston, try to stubbornly hold onto Booker, realize they're not going anywhere without a total rebuild, and then finally move him in a Bridges like deal.

[baseline bum]

Agreed. I think it's clear he's easily a top 30 player in the league, and at the very least rates at a level with Jamal Murray, Aaron Gordon, Tyrese Maxey, Kyrie Irving, or whoever you consider the #2 guys on Minnesota, Indiana, or most other playoff teams... The Spurs have their #1 guy in Wemby, so if Lauri and someone else are 2a & 2b, they're in the conversation for going beyond the 2nd round of the playoffs. Anyone who thinks he's one dimensional hasn't been watching him the last two seasons and is letting vague impressions of his years from ages 20-23 cloud their perception. He's the only guy in NBA history to have 200 3 pointers and 100 dunks in one season, his midrange percentages are excellent, and his offensive win shares last year were higher than Tatum and Curry. His pairing with Victor would be a match made in heaven.

What would you be willing to give up to land him? Let's say Ainge has rebuffed every offer and you can make him one final offer. Let's assume Lauri says he'll sign a 5 year max contract before July 1st 2025 and thus never hits free agency.

[Seventyniner]

If the Hawks can get a bunch of picks from another team for Young, could they offer the Spurs enough non-Hawks draft capital to get the Spurs to take it in return for the Hawks regaining control over their next three drafts? It would be in the same vein as the Rockets/Nets deal.

There has to be a point at which the Spurs say yes, though it might not be possible for the Hawks to get there. The picks the Hawks got in the Dejounte trade help towards this end, though, and it's possible that's exactly why they traded Dejounte.

[Mr. Body]

If the Hawks can get a bunch of picks from another team for Young, could they offer the Spurs enough non-Hawks draft capital to get the Spurs to take it in return for the Hawks regaining control over their next three drafts? It would be in the same vein as the Rockets/Nets deal.

There has to be a point at which the Spurs say yes, though it might not be possible for the Hawks to get there. The picks the Hawks got in the Dejounte trade help towards this end, though, and it's possible that's exactly why they traded Dejounte.

Theoretically, yes, but I don't think contenders have enough picks to tip the balance like that.