The Irregular Trebuchet of Stephon Castle

[Extra Stout]

We should all be given a buzzer to send you a shock when you're being an unnecessary asshole for no reason. Why say who cares? Just make your point without being an insufferable .

I don’t agree. The Texas electric grid is already shaky.

[LeBowen]

I do consider Jrue more of an elite role player, and if Castle becomes that I would be extatic.

Jrue isn't an all-star right now, but definitely was some years ago.
His best season was with that Rondo, Mirotic, AD, Cousins Pelicans.
He destroyed Lillard in the first round, worth a watch.

As for Castle, as I wrote some days ago, maybe it would be better if he becomes a Derrick level player and not an all-star.
Why? Because of CBA.
We don't want three max deals on the payroll. Assuming we get another all-star as Wemby's running mate, Castle or Devin developing into max contract players would mean at least one of them eventually has to go.

[Mr. Body]

We should all be given a buzzer to send you a shock when you're being an unnecessary asshole for no reason. Why say who cares? Just make your point without being an insufferable .

Lol look at Mr Touchy. What soft pathetic nerve did I touch this time, you dumb baby?

[Mr. Body]

Jrue isn't an all-star right now, but definitely was some years ago.
His best season was with that Rondo, Mirotic, AD, Cousins Pelicans.
He destroyed Lillard in the first round, worth a watch.

As for Castle, as I wrote some days ago, maybe it would be better if he becomes a Derrick level player and not an all-star.
Why? Because of CBA.
We don't want three max deals on the payroll. Assuming we get another all-star as Wemby's running mate, Castle or Devin developing into max contract players would mean at least one of them eventually has to go.

It would be awesome if Castle got it, but the All Star game is like the Oscars. The league has managed to get five Lakers in at one time. The same league that never gave a Duncan a DPOY. Their treatment of us will never change.

[exstatic]

Lol look at Mr Touchy. What soft pathetic nerve did I touch this time, you dumb baby?

BZZZZZZT!!!

[TD 21]

Ya - it’s all about how one measures a star. Guys like Jrue and especially Derrick aren’t considered stars, but they win games.

I'd classify them as complementary stars. Since they can't be offensive centerpieces, but they have star like impact, that's a fair compromise.

This archetype is much more valuable than what I'd classify as pseudo stars. As in, offensive centerpieces who lack star like impact (Ingram, DeFrozen, etc.).

[Seventyniner]

Jrue isn't an all-star right now, but definitely was some years ago.
His best season was with that Rondo, Mirotic, AD, Cousins Pelicans.
He destroyed Lillard in the first round, worth a watch.

As for Castle, as I wrote some days ago, maybe it would be better if he becomes a Derrick level player and not an all-star.
Why? Because of CBA.
We don't want three max deals on the payroll. Assuming we get another all-star as Wemby's running mate, Castle or Devin developing into max contract players would mean at least one of them eventually has to go.

The new CBA allows a team to comfortably carry two max contracts. If Castle turns into a star worthy of a max that can only be good for the Spurs. Even if the Spurs manage to draft another great player, they can get a lot in return for trading away that player or Castle later on.

The Thunder won't be able to keep both Holmgren and Williams in a few years, but they will still have suitors lining up for whichever one they decide to let go.

[exstatic]

The new CBA allows a team to comfortably carry two max contracts. If Castle turns into a star worthy of a max that can only be good for the Spurs. Even if the Spurs manage to draft another great player, they can get a lot in return for trading away that player or Castle later on.

The Thunder won't be able to keep both Holmgren and Williams in a few years, but they will still have suitors lining up for whichever one they decide to let go.

I think that the new order, until there is another seismic change to the CBA will be to cycle through your 3 and 4 players, flipping them for draft picks when the get too expensive.

[Mitch Cumsteen]

I think being a scorer is a very unique mentality/profile. Those players almost have a indiv sport mentality, they need to force themselves into trusting others and share the ball.

It's not a criticism on Castle, I actually think he has a lot more to bring bb wise than TP as a rookie for ex.

I know he was more offensive in highschool but even the best defensive specialists of all time were the go to guys in highschool.

There's still the SGA path but he won't have the same usage and opportunities than SGA hadat the start of his career bc Wemby is ready to take over the league

The Jrue Holiday profile basically (which is great)

When I was watching Castle's high school tape, it gave me some SGA vibes. Castle has some of that funky, herkie jerky, post you up, inside out, one-on-one game to him. Castle doesn't have near the touch or range, or even the wingspan, but that's the best comp I can think of. Not predicting he ever gets close to that level, but I firmly believe that he's going to be able to create for himself off the dribble on the regular.

[exstatic]

The new CBA allows a team to comfortably carry two max contracts. If Castle turns into a star worthy of a max that can only be good for the Spurs. Even if the Spurs manage to draft another great player, they can get a lot in return for trading away that player or Castle later on.

The Thunder won't be able to keep both Holmgren and Williams in a few years, but they will still have suitors lining up for whichever one they decide to let go.

If they try to keep SGA, Holmgren, and Williams, they’ll have to gut the roster, and won’t go anywhere past the first round. I’d be happy to take Cason Wallace off their hands. You can never have too many versatile two way guards.

Personally, I think they’ll offload Williams if they break up the 3. He’s a more common archetype than Chet.

[LeBowen]

The new CBA allows a team to comfortably carry two max contracts. If Castle turns into a star worthy of a max that can only be good for the Spurs.

Would be good if it's just Wemby on max deal. But if both Devin and Castle get to max level players, someone will probably have to go. Not to mention if we get an all-star in a trade before it happens.

Even if the Spurs manage to draft another great player, they can get a lot in return for trading away that player or Castle later on.

The thing is that you can't win every trade.
Trading away all-stars for elite role players doesn't always work out and expecting rookies to fit right in during Wemby's prime wouldn't end well.
That's why Markkanen would also make sense.

Max him until he's 32, then he either takes a paycut or goes.
Then Devin and Castle are up for extensions and unless they're both max players, we're still good.

But if we get an all-star who's on Devin/Castle extension timeline and is still in his prime, someone has to go.

I'd rather have Devin and Castle as our Jrue/Derrick duo or one of them becoming a max player than have both as max players.
Because if they're both max players, one eventually has to go. Yeah, we'd be good short term before the extension, but eventually we lose out.

Still years away, but as I said, another reason why Markkanen makes sense.
People expecting Spurs to trade for a ~23 year old all-star would be in for a rude awakening when everyone's up for an extension.

[KobesAchilles]

Dude will be at 30% from 3 his rookie year
And then hover at 33% for the next 4 years and I will hear people say well if he just improves it a little bit. For like the next 6 years I’m gonna hear people arguing that Castle is young and will learn how to shoot. And he never will.

[LeBowen]

Dude will be at 30% from 3 his rookie year
And then hover at 33% for the next 4 years and I will hear people say well if he just improves it a little bit. For like the next 6 years I’m gonna hear people arguing that Castle is young and will learn how to shoot. And he never will.

Derrick was at 34% on 3.7 attempts in his first 6 seasons.
39% on 5.7 attempts in two full seasons with the Celtics.

Fox was at 32% on 3.8 attempts in his first 6 seasons.
37% on 7.8 attempts this year.

It's never too late and everyone has a different development trajectory.
Castle's biggest advantage will be that he looks like he'll be great in every other aspect of the game within two years, with just shooting left to focus on.

But then again, you said you're all in for tanking today, why am I even bothering. Imagine thinking a team with Wemby can outtank 8 teams that will lose games on purpose.

[RC_Drunkford]

Can‘t wait for the Castle vs. Vassell threads to start

[z0sa]

Really really liked Castle's interview with CBS. He speaks like a veteran already in his answers and doesn't want any drama. I don't see why people would think he's stupid or want to compare him to Kawhi - he seems very smart to me and not at all autistic, just a quiet kind of dude. At least concerning basketball, he's got a great head on his shoulders -- and since that's his job, good on him.

[Seventyniner]

The thing is that you can't win every trade.
Trading away all-stars for elite role players doesn't always work out and expecting rookies to fit right in during Wemby's prime wouldn't end well.
That's why Markkanen would also make sense.

That's not really what I meant. It's not about winning each trade, it's that stockpiling more assets by trading away excess stars is better than not having excess stars to begin with. Once the Thunder are forced to break up their SGA/Holmgren/Williams core, unless the owners decide to take a couple seasons above the second apron (doubtful since even big market teams like the Clippers refuse to do so), they will be able to get a good return for the one they let go (probably Williams) and add to their war chest.

As such, Castle being good enough to warrant a max contract would be a win for the Spurs whether they hold on to him or not.

If Castle turns out to be a Franz Wagner level player and demands a max anyway it's a different story. At that point I think the Spurs should trade him, though the incoming haul would be less than if he were to be a true star.

[DR_Admiral]

It's going to be such a bonus having a point guard that's 6'6 and can defend 1-3. The Spurs have the potential to be a defensive beast of a team assuming they round out the roster with good defensive players.

[DAF86]

If this guy doesn't pan out, I want 2 things:

1) Spurstalk to never get a hard-on for a guard that can't shoot ever again. You know who you are, mother ers.

2) For PATFO to do the same ing thing. Just give it a rest with the non-shooting prospects for a couple of seasons.

[LeBowen]

That's not really what I meant. It's not about winning each trade, it's that stockpiling more assets by trading away excess stars is better than not having excess stars to begin with. Once the Thunder are forced to break up their SGA/Holmgren/Williams core, unless the owners decide to take a couple seasons above the second apron (doubtful since even big market teams like the Clippers refuse to do so), they will be able to get a good return for the one they let go (probably Williams) and add to their war chest.

The return is good, but never good enough if you have to break up your core.

As such, Castle being good enough to warrant a max contract would be a win for the Spurs whether they hold on to him or not.

If Castle turns out to be a Franz Wagner level player and demands a max anyway it's a different story. At that point I think the Spurs should trade him, though the incoming haul would be less than if he were to be a true star.

Everyone who's eligible wants a max deal these days.
Unless Castle is one of those few guys who would take a paycut.
Whataboutism right now, but will be interesting to see how things unfold.

[spurraider21]

Can‘t wait for the Castle vs. Vassell threads to start

if we get to the point where castle is good enough to justify those threads, id be pretty happy

[KobesAchilles]

Derrick was at 34% on 3.7 attempts in his first 6 seasons.
39% on 5.7 attempts in two full seasons with the Celtics.

Fox was at 32% on 3.8 attempts in his first 6 seasons.
37% on 7.8 attempts this year.

It's never too late and everyone has a different development trajectory.
Castle's biggest advantage will be that he looks like he'll be great in every other aspect of the game within two years, with just shooting left to focus on.

But then again, you said you're all in for tanking today, why am I even bothering. Imagine thinking a team with Wemby can outtank 8 teams that will lose games on purpose.

oh I believe we definitely could tank with Wemby. None of our players know how to win worth . Tbh we have so many low IQ players that tanking would be rather easy. The East would have their typical 4 teams that suck. We would have to contend with Portland. Utah hasn’t gotten rid of Lauri yet so they aren’t tanking. They will be 34 wins right there. Pop could put Wemby on a minute restriction again.

There are lots of avenues for us to tank that we could tank if we were serious about it. I don’t think we will tank but I’m seriously impressed with 5 prospects and I would love one of them on our team.

White was already a good shooter in college. Pop just hates the 3 point shot for some reason. Pop will never allow his point guard to take 5 threes a game or more. He should. Analytics says he should. 9 of the last 10 champions have had a PG that took 5 threes a game or more on their team. But Pop is stubborn. We just picked up CP3. Our point guard aren’t going to make 3s

There are so many PGs that haven’t learned how to shoot. I can play that game too if I so wanted. Way more PGs came into the league with a broken shot and left the league with one.

[LeBowen]

There are so many PGs that haven’t learned how to shoot. I can play that game too if I so wanted. Way more PGs came into the league with a broken shot and left the league with one.

I didn't say Castle is guaranteed to shoot, I'm just saying we don't know what's going to happen. Even if he doesn't make improvements in his first few years.

There are lots of avenues for us to tank that we could tank if we were serious about it. I don’t think we will tank but I’m seriously impressed with 5 prospects and I would love one of them on our team.

Wemby wants to be on GOAT trajectory, he's too smart to not figure out any further tanking and we don't want to make him unhappy. Let the Hawks do the tanking for us over the next three years.

[TD 21]

Really really liked Castle's interview with CBS. He speaks like a veteran already in his answers and doesn't want any drama. I don't see why people would think he's stupid or want to compare him to Kawhi - he seems very smart to me and not at all autistic, just a quiet kind of dude. At least concerning basketball, he's got a great head on his shoulders -- and since that's his job, good on him.

Equating autism with stupidity is not only ignorant, but clueless, since the exact opposite is often true.

[tonight...you]

Dude will be at 30% from 3 his rookie year
And then hover at 33% for the next 4 years and I will hear people say well if he just improves it a little bit. For like the next 6 years I’m gonna hear people arguing that Castle is young and will learn how to shoot. And he never will.

Disagree, but you can whatever your whatevers.

[Pauleta14]

When I was watching Castle's high school tape, it gave me some SGA vibes. Castle has some of that funky, herkie jerky, post you up, inside out, one-on-one game to him. Castle doesn't have near the touch or range, or even the wingspan, but that's the best comp I can think of. Not predicting he ever gets close to that level, but I firmly believe that he's going to be able to create for himself off the dribble on the regular.

I agree with the comp, it was my initial one before I realised he won't benefit like SGA from as much time and "green lights".

Wemby's presence and playmaking abilities is another reason, we don't need a "pure" PG and playmaking will come from movements and passing as it seems to still be Pop's ambition.

Almost by default Castle will become closer to a Jrue type and it's actually a win-win for him to have a long(er) career and Spurs to have a long term reliable PG