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By who?
All the French posters are saying this coach is Pop level re low BBIQ.
I'll admit i thought something could be done with Gobert and Wama on the same team. Even if they alternated.
The French guards absolutely blow.
I have been saying but people here really believe that the Spurs are going to be much better next season. Wemby will have his moments but he won't be able to carry the team, which has not improved that much (Barnes and that's it). The Spurs are a clear bottom 8-10 and should go for a top4 pick next season. But 2024-25 won't be much different than last season.Welcome to the Tank for Copper Flagg train
All the French posters are saying this coach is Pop level re low BBIQ.
I'll admit i thought something could be done with Gobert and Wama on the same team. Even if they alternated.
The French guards absolutely blow.
A team with with 7 players with NBA experience (Wemby, Gobert, Batum, Coulibaly, Fournier, De Colo, Ntilikina) and plenty of international experience....
All the French posters are saying this coach is Pop level re low BBIQ.
I'll admit i thought something could be done with Gobert and Wama on the same team. Even if they alternated.
The French guards absolutely blow.
That includes an NBA 4xDPoY, an up-and-coming RoY and future NBA star, a savvy NBA vet, and...well the others...
They are more "talented" than 80% of the teams in this tournament...AND they are playing at home basically. Thus, expectations were high...
But I do agree that their coaching and, particularly, their guard play is absolute dog . It makes the things the Spurs do with Wemby look like poetry.
Victor will be the centerpiece of a le. If you don’t believe that, basketball might not be the sport for you. When will he be the centerpiece is an open question. No one is claiming a victor-centric team is winning a championship this year or next year. But there is a huge gulf between a championship team and a bottom feeder team. The fact that the spurs were so horrible last year has nothing to do with Wembanyama.
Let’s not do this strawmanning nonsense. Just say you think that a Victor-centric team today cannot be a competent, compe ive team if that is what you think.
This i did not know.
So it's basically going to take this French coach a roster the equivalent of
Prime Timmy Dunker
Prime GNob
Prime Parker
Healty DRob
Bob Horry
Prime Steffi Kerr
and many more to get him a Gold.
French coach blaming Wemby.
You who saw the game have a reaction?
France Head Coach Criticizes Victor Wembanyama After Tough Loss Against Germany (msn.com)
“He stopped the ball too much. Against that kind of aggressiveness, you can’t play that way," said Collet. "You are never 1-on-1 because they come to double team and there’s no space to operate. It’s important to move the ball.”
Yeah true. I did grow up a D-Rob fan, but I wasn't actually able to watch him play much. I suppose you're right in that he's more of a face up player. I guess I'm used to TD down low dominating. Victor's going to be different and he's going to have to learn some sort of effective go to moves. What happened to the hook shot, can't he learn one of those, or maybe a sky hook like he was talking about before his rookie season. How did Kareem used to score? What were his go-to moves?
Do you think Victor needs to add more strength? I don't think we'd want him to get super bulked due to his frame, but I think he needs more. Would Giannis have ever become the same player he is now if he stayed skinny? I don't think he would have.
Edit : What do you French fans think about Collet criticising victor?
Mul roll you can watch the game yourself here : basketball-video.com what web browser are you using? Install an Ad Blocker (uBlock is what I recommend) from the extensions store if you're using Google Chrome, Microsoft Edge, Mozilla Firefox and you should be OK to watch the videos.
The thing is, I've been extremely clear on my opinion about Wemby. There's no sleight of hand on my part. No one said Victor "won't" be a centerpiece. That is trying to put words in my mouth and creating a strawman. Basically everyone thinks Wemby will become a centerpiece. That's not where the debate is, and trying to force it there because it makes the other side look unreasonable is really lame.
The point I'm making -- and a point that a lot of folks do not agree with -- is that Victor isn't ready for the Spurs to take a contending posture. Yes, there are people who think that they should make moves for other stars now. That is basically the view that underpins the Markkanen fervor. There are people who think the Spurs other players are holding him back. They interpret the issues Victor has scoring on certain players or the lack of easy buckets they assume he should always be able to get as the failing of everyone else around him. And no matter what screenshots they pull out or tweets from random folks agreeing with them they pass off as evidence, it's not the reality. The reality is, he's 20 years old, and like all young superstars, he's going to be inconsistent, and good players and coaches will have answers for him. Stars need to grow in that dialectic, and that process usually takes several years.
Folks watched France destroy Turkey's B-team and took it as validation for their belief that the Spurs put a uniquely horrible lineup around Wemby, and that that explains why he didn't meet their expectations. The FNT had "guards that could throw a lob pass", a "coach that isn't senile" and all the other STisms. Then they ran into legit compe ion, the easy buckets went away, Victor went back to being a young inconsistent player, and now it's all about how uniquely horrible the FNT's guards are and how much of an idiot their coach is. People say it with (what I assume is) a straight face. It's bonkers.
It's not a freaking mystery why a team relying on a 20-year-old to carry them is going to struggle against high-level experienced compe ion. It doesn't require someone to be held responsible for it. There's no easy coaching magic that's going to make that work. There aren't supporting teammates that are going to make it work. The thing that's going to make it work is time. France should have the best player in the tournament in 2032 if not 2028. At this point, their best chance at winning gold will be to get the other young guys (Risacher, Traore, Coulibaly) to commit
to playing international ball as many summers as possible. There's no reason why they can't develop the kind of chemistry Australia has, that Argentina had, or like the FNT had with Parker, Diaw and Turiaf. Building that "greater than the sum of its parts" factor takes time, dedication and growth. It doesn't take just having the most talented prospect on your team.
And no, I'm not saying there aren't individual issues with coaching or teammates for either the Spurs or FNT. Those are real, and many of them are annoying. The Spurs in particular should not be married to their roster or staff given the lack of improvement by so many players. I'm saying that until Wemby's ready, those things aren't actually limiting factors. Victor is the pole at the center of the tent. There's no combination of other teammates and coaching that will push either team past where Wemby is in his development except bringing in an established superstar who can establish the foundation for the team while Wemby takes on a supporting/complimentary role for a couple of years. That's obviously more possible for the Spurs to do than the FNT, but the targets that are brought up most frequently do not fit that bill. Hence why this summer with the FNT hasn't given the Spurs cause to reconsider using the next year or two as growth years for Wemby despite many fans wanting them to bring in younger stars. I don't believe he's at the point in his development where that's the smart move, and so far the Spurs seem to be of the same mind.
Some people still have a lot of illusions about the margin that the NBA would have over other leagues. We are far from the advance that NBA players had in the 90s. The FIBA game has become much more physical than the NBA game, which has become a game of shooters.
Talent is everywhere. NBA franchises draft prospects, not accomplished players, and many of these prospects do not confirm or do not find an ideal environment for their development. This is the case for many French guards, whose % of success in the league must not exceed the level of success of other guards in the league after their rookie contract. These players could have gained more experience and certainty in Europe against already accomplished players instead of playing parts of games in the NBA. The level is very tight in all leagues, between NBA and Euroleague; teams do not manage players at the same time of their development. You can find excellent veteran or already accomplished players who do not play on an NBA roster, as well as less good young players who will play more than them. And in the end, you will conclude that it is those who play who are better than the obscure player who does not have a chance.
Take Micić and Coulibaly for example. Coulibaly has probably played more this year in the NBA than the Serbian player, does that mean Micić is less good? Certainly not. Micić has been one of the best players in Europe for several years in a row, if not the best. If he doesn't play in the NBA, it's not that he's not good, it's that the coach believes he has better options. This confuses the issue as to the level of certain players. Some play little or in a bad context. Schröder is underemployed in the NBA, but he has been one of the best guards for Germany in several international compe ions. Just because he plays in the NBA doesn't mean he's superior, he's superior because he's a perfect fit for a role and environment.
The same thing could be said about the success that Tony Parker or Jokic had in the NBA. They succeeded in a very specific context in the NBA, and there is nothing to say that they would have established themselves elsewhere. This is why, when you change their environment, in an international tournament for instance, their impact on their respective team is not the same.
How many times will Team USA lose in international compe ions for fans who only see basketball through the eyes of the NBA to realize the facts? The gap between the NBA and the European leagues is no longer that of the 90s. And overall, talent is found everywhere on the planet. Like what we see in football, many supposedly weak national teams can worry big historical teams. Stop thinking that the NBA is the alpha and omega of basketball in the world.
For the players mentioned: Wemby has no adult international experience; Fournier hasn't played in two years; De Colo returns from injury and is no longer at his best; Ntilikina plays little and has few benchmarks in the FIBA game.
The strengths and best elements of this French team are precisely in its elements which are not in the NBA. Lessort and Yabusele are two of the best interiors in a Euroleague context: this in no way predicts that they will be dominant in a FIBA tournament, but they are already more certainties and benchmarks than French guards who play little in an NBA context. Cordinier also plays a role on a Euroleague team. Strazel is playing on a top four Euroleague team at 22 years old.
After yesterday's game, Batum made statements about the level and involvement of the team even though he is one of the reasons for his team's failure: in an NBA context, I would like to believe that he either an elite defender; in FIBA this is not the case; in the NBA, you sometimes bring the ball up quietly after a rebound, in FIBA, you run, it's a PO game at every moment. OK, there are NBA players, but how many of these French players regularly play games with the intensity of a playoff game? A Euroleague match is once or twice a week a game with the intensity of an NBA final. This is why, for example, the absence of Hifi is detrimental. In the same context, he proved this year that he is better than De Colo or Albicy by playing in the team in Europe which probably plays the most aggressive and fastest game. Same thing for Francisco. Ntilikina will probably be much more useful in the future in the French team if he wins minutes and respect in Serbia after having played so little in the NBA.
A team is built with players in good shape, with players who play during the season, who knows playoff level, not players who are out of shape or prospects playing on one of the worst NBA teams.
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Thanks Sir
I'm learning a lot here
There are some Spurs analysts here which are better than world columnists, like the aforementioned
I just come here to refresh my day and learn
But yes indeed, Wemby is still young , he needs time to develop
Tim should teach him some post skills.....
Wemby is like one of those young dragonriders in Game of Thrones
Passionate, but inexperienced
Winter is coming,.............
We need Cregan Stark at center
..........
Gentlemen
I think Wembys mentality is a small forward.....
Correct me if I'm wrong......
the bigger problem is that they combine rookies with players on their last legs.. granted, the talent is there, but more likely they will start dominating when this generation gets in..
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again:
Wemby is not a legit creator and playmaker at this point in his career. No reliable post up game and too many BAD turnovers on the perimeter.
He’s young and he can become a #1 option and creator for a le contenting team, but he’s not there right now.
If you want him to get there you have to suffer through the mistakes an inefficient play for a while longer, perhaps even years.
That sets up a perfect situation to soft tank another year and perhaps find a true playmaker and creator to pair with Wemby.
Because one thing he could easily become soon is an elite and efficient finisher and scorer.
Pair Wemby with someone who can break down a defense and he will feast on open threes and closeouts and lobs and scrambling defenses. He’d easily score 30ppg right now in that scenario.
I like it and I hope it all plays out the way you've said and can become a number 1 option and also learn to be a decent play maker in time. I don't mind it if it takes him some time to get there. Soft tanks can help the team acquire more talent and if Victor becomes a better player due to the growing pains, even better.
One thing I will say, though, do you guys think he needs to add much more weight? And do you think he is capable of having a post up game due to high height and length, or is that not ever going to be strength for him due to his frame (not being able to back guys down)?
And those of you that watched Kareem, what was his game like? How did he play on offense and how did he do most of his scoring?
There are many aspects of playmaking. As good as Wemby's handles are for his size, can't expect him to iso on the perimeter against good defensive wings.
His passing is great when he's inside the paint, getting there is the problem.
Whether it be Wemby getting into the position with the ball or teammates getting the ball to him in the paint.
Wemby wouldn't be isoing on the perimeter unless it's against slow-footed bigs if he had competent guards.
Soft tanking won't be a thing in the next season. As in we can't have a worse record than tanking teams if Wemby is healthy, but we most likely won't be able to make the playoffs even if things go well.
We'll be stuck in that subpar team bracket alongside Hawks and maybe Raptors.
Lebron is trash
Lebron is trash
I know Puerto Rico is probably the worst team in the tournament, but these games go to show how all it takes is a few bad minutes for a team to go from a close game to down 20.
This is mixing up international and professional compe ion. While Team USA is no longer light-years ahead of the compe ion as they were in the '90s for international games, the NBA is still by far the best professional league in the world.
The problem with what Chinook is saying is that it Victor wasn’t even given a fair shot from the beginning. Chinook can argue that Victor is young and isn’t ready to be a center piece but where his argument comes up short is with the teammates and organization. It’s a fact that Pop said he didn’t know how to coach Victor and didn’t have any plays for him to start off the season. Some people argued that it was experimental and Pop was taking a let’s see what we have approach. I think it was just straight lazy. You can still experiment with Wemby AND run set plays for him. But we didn’t and that didn’t exactly help Wemby at all to start the season.
Then we started a PF to bring up the ball, run the offense, and feed Wemby when the PF couldn’t throw any entry pass to the post, a lob pass, a pocket pass in pick n roll, and a traffic pass (as I call it) when the lane collapses and you feed your big man. All of this didn’t help Wemby at all. Chinook for some reason thinks that Wemby isn’t ready for a centerpiece of a le contender bc he is flawed but doesn’t acknowledge the fact that nobody on the team is ready for them to be a contender. Let’s say that Wemby was the 5th best player in the world and fixed his turnover flaws, he improved his defense understanding, became a decent playmaker, and his jumper has improved significantly, would the Spurs be le contenders? No they would not. And that’s bc his teammates suck. The organization needs to get their together bc we have no idea if Wemby can be a “ le contender” player of his team is so garbage.
The Spurs did about the worst they could to help Victor last year. From top of the organization down to the players they the bed for him. A trade for Lauri might not make us le contenders but it would get us to the playoffs. It would get him experience. It would help with spacing so he isn’t triple teamed by Sochans man and Castles man. I would double off CP3 too. Keep one man on Vassell and just double Wemby and what exactly would the Spurs do offensively? Not much. Victor needs talent around him and it’s bull to say that Victor isn’t a centerpiece to a contender when A) we’ve given him zero pieces, and B) we just saw Jason Tatum win a championship and he is just as flawed as Wemby. But Boston surrounded him with talent and they won.
Yeah, and that only took 7 years to work
Calm down and give Wemby AND the team time to develop.
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