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Talent > fit if the former is overwhelming (see Robinson/Duncan and James/Wade). Otherwise and within' reason, fit > talent.
Really hope that if a deal happens it's more like the Dunc'd On scenario and not like the Locked On Kings podcast host who today was especially obnoxious and belligerent about what the Spurs need to give up for an unhappy non-superstar.
He inadvertently brought up Siakam when talking about how Siakam killed the Sacramento deal with his refusal to sign an extension (which in Kings fan logic meant the Spurs still had to pay up?)
The Siakam trade is the model framework.
Rotation overpaid semi-scrub Bruce Brown + salary matching 12th man quality scrubs, + 3 mediocre firsts that had conditions. 2 already conveyed at 19 and 29 in the 2024 draft, and the last is the 2026 top 4 protected Indiana pick, then top 4 protected in 2027 that converts to a 2nd rounder.
Keldon, Tre Jones, Chris Paul/Zollins/filler plus the worst of SA/ATL in 25, the bulls pick, and a better of SA and Boston in 28 is more than fair
The 25 pick is probably no worse than 17 or 18 and might even be a lottery pick. The bulls pick has a high likelihood of being a back end lottery pick and the 28 is guaranteed to convey that gives protection in case the bulls pick never conveys however unlikely that may be.
Talent > fit if the former is overwhelming (see Robinson/Duncan and James/Wade). Otherwise and within' reason, fit > talent.
The way the Bulls started winning was the team would keep the game close and then let Jordan close it out. The Spurs and Victor are so worn out by that point that they make mistakes.
Someone who can score would be great, but trading for a halfway decent big to absorb contact/minutes might be all they need to turn close losses into close wins.
Siakam was on an expiring deal, Fox has another season after this one, can't compare those two.
Siakam was also on a team that wanted to blow it up in order to tank, Kings want to keep competing.
As I said earlier today, Mitc and Lillard are the deals we should be looking at.
Jazz got Sexton, Markkanen, 3 bad FRPs and 2 swaps for Mitc . Cleveland should still be compe ive when those picks convey.
Blazers got 4 deadweight players, #14 '24 FRP which they traded to Washington in Avdija deal, 2 '29 FRPs from Bucks and Celtics, value unknown as of now.
Devin, SAC swap returned and either 1 unprotected ATL FRP or 2 mediocre FRPs with maybe another swap or extra SRPs seems to be fair value compared to those deals.
They can also have Tre, Wesley or any other scrub if they're interested.
IF Spurs don't bring anyone, with a much tougher schedule to come, a more exhausted Wemby (ASG duties coming aren't gonna help) will not have the same production he had up until now, especially being better game planned with more blueprints (Houston bully style or Memphis 2 Bigs for ex) to slow him down.
As of now his +/- differential when he's on/off the court is the main argument to defend his DPOY but even with him on the court Spurs aren't a top defensive team anymore, it will have an impact IF his stats decline, especially his blck/game.
Take away his 1st game in Paris where adrenalin probably helped, he's been in a little slump for a while already and his body language recently is worrisome. I can't see how he can find more energy when he'll soon have to spend a lot more than usual.
He needs help badly and ASAP
Honesty I don't know what type of profile could help, but he needs help badly bc it can get ugly and it's not hard to see it coming.
Fox would mechanically spread the floor being a constant threat in the lane, everybody would benefit from it instantly.
Only having Castle being able to penetrate is making it so much easier to defend us and Wemby has to do so much more to find space
Another big would help so much, either for Memphis type of matchups than giving some rest to Wemby without loosing too much lead
Player-wise Fox and Siakam are a better comparison. The pick quality the Spurs send in the Dunc'd On proposal covers the extra half season. I assume the future swap would be torn up and that also covers it.
Mitc and Lillard were much better players than Fox and had longer deals. Both had much, much more playoff success than Fox, load more all-star games, much higher placement in MVP votes (Fox never in top 10), and had made better than NBA 3rd team.
The proposed trade from ESPN....Damn it is a tough one to decide. I would rather include Devin Vassell (not Castle) and add a Top 3 Protection (do the rules allow it?) to the 2025 ATL pick.
Spurs Receive: Fox
Kings Receive: Castle
Keldon Johnson
2025 and 2027 ATL 1st
2025 CHI 1st (Top 10 Protected)
That's a slight overpay in my mind.
Fox is in the second last year of his deal which means his trade value has already eroded about 20-30% of its peak value say if he had 2 or 3 full seasons remaining under contract. If the Spurs wait till the off-season then his trade value drops significantly as he essentially becomes a 1-year rental for all teams but SA.
That might not stop a desperate team from throwing a good offer at Sac and just hoping they can get Fox to sign with the bigger bird rights deal but that’s risky for the team.
My current offer is still Vassell + Keldon + worst of 25 ATL/SAS + 25 CHI + worst of 27 ATL/SAS + 31 SAC swap + 4 SRP of their choosing + fillers.
^ way to much. That's a lot of picks to add with Vassell. Fox isn't a smooth fit either to throw that much. Spurs want to have more ammo for the next deal.
Haha, I meant more that SAC could send DDR somewhere else in a different deal, not as part of this one...
Vassell is definitely Pena
Realistically who is willing to pay a butt load for Fox? Who is willing to give up players and unconditional picks?
Dev and Tre
Least favorable 25 pick
Most Favorable 27 pick
Tear up the 31 swap.
This is about what I’d expect. It’s also the limit for me.
Add Collins + Huerter and Len.
Paul probably gets waived/released to sign with the Lakers, leaving a rotation of . . .
Starters: Barnes, Champagnie, Wembanyama, Castle, Fox
Bench: Sochan, Johnson, Huerter, Bassey/Len/Mamukelashvili
It's one pick too much. They should take the '25 first rounders out of consideration.
Draw the line at (1) no Castle and (2) no more than two first round picks and (3) you get any other combination of Spurs players (CP3 excluded because, in part, Wemby will be watching).
Good to see that this is the Spurs position.
i feel like the kings wont do it if we dont give up castle oh well, i dont want castle leaving ill wait for another star to wanna play here
That's the thing. If Vic takes care of business like he is supposed to, works to get stronger, and learns a post-game, there will be good players flocking to be part of his journey. Fox is just the first, and he isn't THAT good.
Bringing Fox to the Spurs does *not* line up two 1A players on the same team. It doesn't become a super team. It's one presumed hall of famer and one other player who can maybe be the 2nd guy on a championship team.
I am not saying I am 100% certain on "don't trade Castle" but they need to think a long time about it. It is very possible/easy to overpay for Fox, in my opinion. The front office needs to be careful.
No one wants Castle leaving here, but he should be available. You just mark up his price so Sac loses interest. Wemby is the only one off limits for a player like Fox.
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