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I get it. Your brain no understand big math. Eye test better for wittle brain.
Maybe reddit or twitter is more your speed?
I think Miami would do a Wiggs-Dev swap. They supposedly wanted to hold powder dry for 2026 free agency, but I wonder if that’s changed with Luka moving to LAL.
I get it. Your brain no understand big math. Eye test better for wittle brain.
Maybe reddit or twitter is more your speed?
My favorite fun fact is how every regular rotation player on our team other than Sochan has a worse Net Rating when sharing the court with Devin.
Player NetRtg Without Devin NetRtg With Devin Devin NetRtg Without Player NetRtg with Neither CP3 1.82 -2.22 -12.88 1.88 Wemby 8.53 -3.25 -7.99 -4.14 Castle -0.15 -5.41 -6.66 4.56 Barnes 1.09 -3.65 -9.28 2.78 Sochan -5.17 1.21 -11.17 5.65 Keldon -3.69 -7.34 -5.07 7.97 Champ 2.87 -7.48 -5.52 2.87
I'm sure these are all somehow Castle's fault.
Really gotta move him before it starts costing draft capital to do an addition by subtraction. It's like watching how badly Jefferson was dragging the team down years ago, though I doubt his numbers were anywhere near as alarming as Vassell's.
no you don't get it, that's the problem
oh noes i did not pass eye testno you don't get it, that's the problem
Seriously, if you're bad at everything but three point shooting and nearly half the league shoots the three better than you do (Vassell .362, league average .360) how are you not a scrub ass piece of ?oh noes i did not pass eye test
it's Castle's fault, according to raven
I was actually starting to think Devin was playing pretty well and maybe it was due to him finally feeling better with his foot, but you guys shut that down a bit by showing that his teammates aren't doing well in lineups with him in it. I'm usually one that thinks he plays well when the pressure if off, but this season I really was thinking it's due to the foot and he was still getting back from that, but maybe not. I don't know. I just wonder if the Spurs are going to give him yet another chance with the way it looks like he's finishing the season. It's starting to seem like the "fool's gold" thing people used to say around here years ago.
Last edited by Ice009; 03-27-2025 at 06:44 AM.
I agree. Can’t compete with your eye tests.
Eye test > DARKO.
they are gaslighting you by not normalising the data. for example, the data takes into account the performance when you're down by 20, the same as when you're tied, as if the opposition is trying in the same way. They also not account for the specific amount of time you saw a change. Granted, it's tangible and easy to consume, so there's that, but it doesn't show anything really.
do you even know what it claims to measure, since you post it so much?
Eye test > DARKO.
You dug yourself so deep that you'd fall right through if the Earth was flat. Maybe you'll end up in China, like your favorite player will when his current contract is done.
I never post DARKO graphs, scott does it.
I prefer the eye test.
well, just to clear that, it is a predictive algorithm based on 5 year performance .. do i need to say more?
Yes, you do. If it was just that one metric showing Devin is a negative on the court, then you'd have an argument.
But he's a negative by every possible advanced metric.
Look at that on/off chart, I guess it's not his fault everyone has a worse rating when he's on the floor.
Maybe we should trade everyone and build around Devin.
Maybe those were season long group stats? That wouldn’t reflect any improvements since the ASG.
Ding, ding, ding, ding.
I know some people will scream THE DATA (!), but I think Devin was recovering from the foot issue early on. That plus getting used to a role shift - not handling the ball as much as last season - and new teammates (Paul, Castle, Fox, etc) led to a very poor start.
Devin could be a Gary Harris - type player, shows early promise but never greatly improves beyond early showings. I think for his draft positioning he's been a solid player, but people were/are expecting (much) more and that probably won't be happening.
The big question is can the last season surge (finally?) transition to meaningful play throughout the following season?
Right now, he seems like a league - average guard (ala Harris in Denver) and Castle seems to have more upside at the same position. That could likely make Devin expendable if Castle's advanced stats (which aren't good, BTW) & perimeter scoring make a substantial leap.
All the piling on and constant dogging of him (and various other players) are just par for the course on ST. Once the team starts making meaningful improvements the folks here will still find someone (new 1st round picks, Vassell, Wesley, Sochan, Malaki, or some random player) to constantly complain about.
Last edited by J_Paco; 03-27-2025 at 10:36 AM.
I like Devin a lot more than most people on ST (or at least the haters).
I like his three-level scoring ability and he has good size for a shooting guard (6'10" wingspan), but the needs of the team (wing defense, rebounding, perimeter scoring and rim protection) are hurting all the young guys on the team, IMO.
The team needs to really address adding a thumper inside (think Isaiah Stewart) that can rebound inside, protect the rim, etc.
And wing players like Naji Marshall that have size for his position, can defend, and hit the open three-pointer.
Lacking those necessary archetypes has stalled the team's overall progress, IMO.
There are zero Devin haters. Nobody dislikes Devin as a person. I want him gone bc he doesn’t fit with our team. And it’s clear for everyone to see that he doesn’t fit with our team. You just said we need wing defense. Why? Bc he can’t defend. He has the size and the length to be our wing defender, but not the want to or the smarts to play defense. He is constantly out of position, zones out from guarding his man, and just an overall traffic cone. And he doesn’t fight for boards at all. I don’t need him grabbing a boatload of rebounds but I do need him in the fray boxing out his man and tipping the ball to people on our team.
And offensively he is just as dumb. He is just a “when I get the ball I shoot” type of player. Those players are a dime a dozen. This is why he struggles to be a 3rd option bc even they need to know how to play offense. Now ideally, he is the 4th option. And people here say he needs to learn how to adjust to be the 4th option. But what adjustments are there really other than he can’t jack up shots like crazy. His adjustment I guess would be efficiency? But if he is struggling with not shooting contested fade away 2s instead of wide open 3s then again where is his fit? It’s not like the Spurs are telling him he can’t shoot. Just that he needs to shoot 3s instead of contested 2s. He also sets lazy ass screens. Like it’s embarrassing. God I miss Danny Green. He’s the player we need on this team.
Everything about what you said about or needs is true. And literally by your own admission, what we don’t need is a player like Devin. There’s zero hate. His game doesn’t fit our team. And idk how you can argue otherwise.
Fwiw. Devin Vassell's EPM at the ASB was -1.8. He has improved to -0.9. His EPM is now at the 53rd percentile and Earned Wins %le us now 67. That's good progress. Even if overall his season has been underwhelming. But jumping from 39th percentile to 53 in a month suggests he has been trending in the right direction. On the other hand while Castle has improved on offense, he has regressed rather badly on defense acc. to EPM numbers.
I think we can carry Devin a couple more seasons until a trade opens up. Even if he is likely the next Tim Hardaway Jr. you are still getting a guy with enough skills that helps you figure out your offense like what he is doing as a starter in DET.
post ASB zach collins earned a 2/35 extension
Quite to the contrary, I don't expect or want him to be more because of his draft position. I want him to be a good 3rd/4th option. The problem is that he only looks good when he's put in position to be a primary option, and even then he's not so good that it warrants prioritizing him in that role. Basically, Devin isn't the best on the team at the thing he does best, and his skillset doesn't really fit any longer. It's not personal against Devin, it's just the situation.
As for it being "par for the course on ST" to complain about someone... why wouldn't fans of a team want to improve their weakest links? You can be a fan without having blind subservience to the product. I believe the Spurs are one of the NBA's three elite historical franchises. Lakers, Celtics, Spurs. We're the only one out of that group who does it organically and without just buying our way to les. But to do that, the team should demand excellence throughout the organization. As a fan, I demand the same. Players like Branham will always be worthy of criticism and complaint, because they are not worthy of the shirt.
Devin's trade value is high now. Can we trade him for Cam Johnson straight up? I would do it if yes. If no, I can wait.
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