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Convincing. I agree. We need centers because Wemby is a part time center, he wants to play like a wing or forward. Maybe Derik Queen and some one like Adams(but younger) is synergic and adds diversity to our team.
This scenario that you bring up is easy to scheme against. They’d just play zone defense or clog the paint if Wemby even decides to drive to the hoop. Wemby takes up so much space when he’s dribbling that any idea of playing inside-out offense with him as the ball handler loses its effectiveness because the nearest player only needs to take a few steps to double Wemby. Wemby benefits more from having cutters on his team than 3 pt shooters. We’ve also seen that Wemby likes to do a touch pass to Sochan in the paint. If we have a tweener C as our PF, the opposing PF or wing on our PF would lose any rebounding advantage, even if it was a big man assigned to our C.
We have enough evidence to see that the current setup doesn’t work with a big wing defensively and rebound-wise. We’ve even seen a setup with a shooting PF in Barnes. Neither work in the grand scheme of things. Last season was used to see what works and what doesn’t work.
Convincing. I agree. We need centers because Wemby is a part time center, he wants to play like a wing or forward. Maybe Derik Queen and some one like Adams(but younger) is synergic and adds diversity to our team.
Convincing. I agree. We need centers because Wemby is a part time center, he wants to play like a wing or forward. Maybe Derik Queen and some one like Adams(but younger) is synergic and adds diversity to our team.
I'm agreeing with you. You should reread my post. I'm team Kon all the way. Taking a flier on Fleming with the second pick is fine. It's a crapshoot at that point anyway
The coaching situation is very important. Like Jenkins (for instance): Whether he goes with the modern "Read&React" offense he had this year or the "5-Out" offense he had under Bud, he'll want a PF with range added to the team.
Dejounte's analysis about our need of a big staying inside the paint for rebounding? For offensive rebounding? To me, offensive rebounding is not as important as floor spacing
To me, Fleming is almost as big as Sorber and will be equal defensive rebounder. Plus, we can defend the 3.
The comparison to Blake is flawed. Blake cannot shoot 3s. Role players don't need to hold the ball or process the scheme too much. They just need to catch and shoot, cut, defend
NBA scouting, not college. Colleges miss guys all the time, because there are thousands or even tens of thousands of high schools. Guys get missed, still.
An example from another sport is former NFL linebacker Brian Erlacher. He went to a3A level HS in West Texas, and could only get a scholarship to New Mexico State, and he really wanted TCU. The NFL found him, though, and he went onto become a Pro Bowl linebacker.
All Versatility Draft Board
After the last couple of drafts if you go back and listen to Brian Wright he keeps saying the same things about wanting to add versatile players to the “program”
The Spurs want players that can play multiple positions and are able to switch on defense.
These are some of the players that fit that mold best.
- Cooper Flagg - can play the 1, 3 or 4 on offense and can switch on just about anybody except for super quick or crafty point guards on defense. Would also definitely be a candidate to play small ball center
- VJ Edgecombe- for now probably just a 2 guard on offense but has potential to develop into a point. Defensively because of his athleticism he should be able to guard 1-3 unless he comes across a stronger player with a bigger build. He struggles with those types. Needs to add some bulk but his athleticism will make up for a lot of that for now. One of the better on ball defenders when it comes to guarding smaller quicker players in this draft.
- Ace Bailey- can play both wing spots offensively or defensively. Does not have the handles to play the 1 but if he adds bulk could play the 4. With the way the league is now with the true power forward position being phased out by some franchises he can definitely guard a lot of the “4’s” in this league but has no chance of guarding any player with bulk. Dude needs to hit the weight room but he has the frame to add some weight for sure. The right franchise could turn this guy into a defensive stopper because of his athleticism.
- Rasheer Fleming- really only does 2 things well on offense. Shoot and slash to basket without ball. No handles. If his shooting doesn’t translate in NBA I would worry about him on offense. Does show ability on pick and roll but he was not a good midrange player in college so I think nba teams would play off coverage inside the arc. Needs a lot of development to be anything other than a spot up shooter and a guy who flashes to the basket. He will get you offensive rebounds though. On defense this guy has the ability to switch onto anybody except for the quickest of point guards. Great rebounder. Hustles. Great rebounder. Very long with size. High energy player. Not sure about his basketball IQ so may need some coaching to unlock his full potential to be a monster on defense.
- Collin Murray-Boyles- LoL this dude is the definition of versatility. He can play any position on offense or defense. 1-5. Can switch onto anyone on defense including quick guards. He smothers them. This dude also has a negative assist-to-turnover ratio. He is a good passer and has handles but makes some bone-headed plays sometimes. Will dribble into 5 guys or try to make an impossible pass. That said he can guard anyone, but sometimes he gambled too much which leads to him fouling or getting beat. Has the bulk to hold off 7-foot players. Just enough quickness and athleticism to hold it down against quick guards. I wouldn’t say he is a lock down defender that will shutdown the best players but he can definitely throw people off their games. On offense he can have the ball or be a slasher. His shooting was not good but if you watch the tape he has good form. Takes terrible shots. The few times when USC actually played well he showed good rhythm and ability to shoot. Shoots well from the line. Gets to the line. His team was so bad I wonder if he will be a better pro when he doesn’t have to do so much. That or he will drive a coach insane. He is the ultimate wild card of this draft. He could be a Franchise player or be out of the league in 5 years, but he is definitely versatile.
- Nique Clifford- very versatile. Probably can’t play the 1 in the nba but has shown playmaking ability. Solid at everything. Would be a very safe pick. Can guard 2-5 because he has just enough athleticism and plenty of bulk. One of the best rebounding wings in this draft. Elite rebounder for his size and roll. Good shooter both with 3’s and midrange. Has handles but not good enough to play point. One of the best ready made two-way players in this draft. Stat stuffer with Derrick white vibes.
- Yaxel Lendeborg- not sure if he will stay in the draft or not but he is a versatile front court player. Can play the 4 or 5. Lacks athleticism but is one of the highest IQ players in this draft. Understands positioning. Will be a dirty work guy in the nba. Grabbing boards. Making the right passes. Setting screens. I think he will be able to switch on defense in the nba because of his IQ. He will know where to be and where his help will come from. He will grab all the boards. On offense he will set screens and get offensive rebounds. Maybe the best rebounder in this class from a positioning standpoint. He can spread the floor but his release is slow so he will need to be open. Makes smart passes. Strong fundamentals. Pro Ready
- Asa Newell- ability to play the 4 or 5. Adds some rim protection but not elite. Can switch on the perimeter. Should be solid defensively in the nba. On offense not sure what he will be. Very raw and needs development on that end but there is potential. Rebounds well. Your hope would be he could develop into a dirty work guy that does all the small things. Not there yet though. Nice blend of athletic ability and size.
- Cedric Coward- not a leaper but has very good athleticism. Can switch on defense. Has the length to guard quicker players and bulk to guard stronger players. Strong fundamentals. High IQ. Small sample size but shows great offensive potential. Knock down shooter that has shown playmaking ability. Very good slasher. Might be the best shooter in this class.
- Adou Thiero- athleticism, strength, size, frame, length! He is a physical force. Can guard anybody. Good rebounder. Blocks shots and gets steals. Disruptive. May be the best overall defender in this class should he come out. May go back to school. On offense he has shown playmaking ability. Can drive to the basket. Shooting needs a lot of work. Very bad. Needs to fix form. Not sure if he will ever be able to shoot. Needs to work on fundamentals and I’m not sure about his IQ.
- Carter Bryant - size, strength and athleticism. Showed defensive versatility and shooting when he was on the floor. Something feels off because why did they not play him more. 19 minutes per game. Shows ability in small sample size. Probably more of a project than nba ready.
After Carter there are other versatile players but they need a little bit too much work to see what they will be in the nba. I could see the Spurs being high on all these players. Not that they won’t be high on the other players I just think these 11 fit the profile best. At least from the spurs recent draft history.
Maybe the draft values will change now that a core is coming together. Guys like Knueppel, Tre Johnson, Sorber, Maluach, Jakucionis, Mcneely or even the other duke shooters Evans/James could also appeal because of their defined roles within the “program”
Or maybe they will pull off a roster shifting trade and not even have any picks this year lol. Not going to hold my breath on that. I think Fox was an outlier because he wanted to be here. If anything I could see them using Vassell to move up in the draft like they did with George Hill. Or perhaps trade out for another pick in 20131
Last edited by scottspurs; 04-15-2025 at 10:29 AM.
Funny how you don’t have Wolf as a versatile player, who has the handles of a guard and block and rebound as a big man. Step-back 3? Pass through traffic? Don’t sleep on his “lack of athleticism,” he switches on perimeters and chase 3 pointers. Turnover prone? He was playing a PG for Michigan practically overnight from center at Yale. You don’t expect to find an AS player at pick 15, but Wolf is a very high bball IQ player with plenty of skills at 7 footer, 250 lbs. He will find a long career in the NBA.
Oh, and don’t you know he already knows how to play with another big?? A couple of years with NBA strength trainer, this guy will be a solid big with plenty of skills.
Last edited by John B; 04-15-2025 at 11:50 AM.
I was comparing development trajectory related to their rawness as a player (specifically their basketball IQ and feel). I was not comparing existing skills.
If youre good at rebounding on the defensive end, you should be good on the offensive end too. It should be a natural instinct for rebounders. But I’m not solely talking about rebounding being the only important factor on offense, but a player who is accustomed to setting screens for other shooters is highly important. If anyone remembers Poeltl, he was the maestro at that.
Yes, floor spacing is important to many of you but I think it is a myth that will be busted soon enough. There are already stats that show that the rebound battle is a major pain point.
There is no scenario Wemby being match up against the other teams big man is more favorable in the perimeter and on the wings for him and the team.
Queen and Sorber are very different but both talented enough in their own way that you'd have to consider them. I mean in a vacuum if you asked me if Queen or... Knueppel is more likely to be out of the league in 4 years, id say Kon.
but the spurs have enough of a skeleton in place between wemby/fox/castle that they need to consider fit more than they have had to in years past
My problem with Wolf other than the obvious lack of athleticism is his free throw shooting. He has handles but what’s the point if you can just play aggressive and foul him. Unless he improves that he is just another 5 in the NBA. I view him as a 2nd round player.
I actually like the other Michigan big Goldin more than Wolf. If both are playing Center he is better. If Wolf improves his free throw shooting he could be a steal but he needs alot of work compared to the other versatile players in this draft
I think he’d be awesome with our second round pick. I expect he’ll still be on the board by then too.
The guy does step-back 3’s and not shy at sending them. I wouldn’t be surprised if a shooting coach improves his shooting. He was doing 62% and 71% FT at Yale. Then overnight switched to playing PG/Point Forward at Michigan and TO’s up, FT % down. Dribbling for a big man can affect shooting percentage you know. The guy is very skilled, high bball IQ. Those type know how to work and improve their game, including shooting all I’m saying.
His shooting is probably fake, for that reason.
Yes. There will not be enough basketball for other players. We already have a core. Adding players like Queen or Sorber may complicate and even kill our offense.
Plus, Queen may be another teams' #1 to #2 guy, but he will likely give up more points than creating. I don't see Spurs pick him even if he falls to #8 in an unlikely situation.
Khaman will be a different story. He can defend the post and perimeter. A good Lob partner. May even develop a 3-point. I can see spurs pick him if availble at 8. But then we lose Kon which sucks.
Spurs currently don’t have a big man who can post. Wemby is not. And when the game slows down, and you need a point. You need that big man on the post who will demand double-team and create open shots. Wemby is the best opportunistic player ever to find that open shots, lob pass. Imagine Kobe but 7’5 playing in a triangle offense (sorry bad word for Spurs purists) with imposing Queen in the post. Damn!
I'm not super concerned about the fit for any of these because the worst case scenario is these guys become high end backups who still spend 15+ minutes a game with Wemby even if they don't start along side him. In this draft, I'm okay with coming away with that (assuming we don't jump up). Queen, Sorber, and even CMB are all intriguing from that POV. I like Fleming's archetype but I put him a tier below each of those guys.
I'm not expecting us to come away from this draft with an instant starter/ROTY contender type player and I'd be just as excited to land any of these guys as I would anyone else in our range. Queen is the one with the highest ceiling it appears, so that would be exciting as well. I don't see the alleged All-Star ceiling with Kon, but I think he'd be a valuable role player/4th starter eventually which is also fine picking at 8.
Right now my favorite draft would be Derik Queen should he make it the Spurs. Nique Clifford with the hawks pick and Cedric Coward in the 2nd.
I’m expecting Knueppel or Tre Johnson, Rasheer Fleming with the hawks pick and draft/stash or some dude that will take a two-way contract
obviously winning the lottery would be the best case scenario.
Would be so awesome if the hawks missed the playoffs
More on Queen. When Maryland played Rutgers. With Harper and Bailey on the court. The best player by far was Derik Queen. When Derik played with Cooper Flagg, Asa Newell and Liam Mcneely in High School. He was the best player on that team. Not saying he will be better pro than Flagg but in High School as teammates he was better. McDonald’s All-American Game. MVP was Derik Queen. Dude is a baller. Glad people on this board are starting to see that. Hopefully the Spurs see it that way.
I'm not so sure about that. There are lots of examples of players with DREB metrics that don't align with their OREB metrics. Our own Victor is a prime example of that. He rates 97th percentile (and 7th best in the league overall) in Crafted Defensive Rebound Quality, but only 52nd percentile in Offensive Rebound Quality. And this isn't just simply a matter of how the player is deployed on the offensive and defensive ends, as the Rebound Quality metric is 3 parts Regularized Adjusted Rebounding and 1 part Rebounding % - it attempts (as best it can) to filter out the noise over a large enough sample size. Simply put: defensive rebounding talent does not always translate to offensive rebounding talent, and vice versa.
There are definitely some guys who are rebounding gurus. Andre Drummond comes to mind. He rates best in the league in ORB and 96th percentile in DRB. My man Bassey, who is on his way to out of the league, is another. 91st percentile in ORB, 86th in DRB.
But here are some guys where one metric is out of sync with the other:
Nurkic: 71st percentile ORB, best in the league in DRB
Tari Eason: 96th percentile ORB, 51st percentile DRB
Porzingis: 36th percentile ORB, 93rd percentile DRB
Sengun: 77th percentile ORB, 93rd percentile DRB
Like I said, the stat tries to normalize the data, there are a lot of factors at play here and now teams deploy these players certainly has an impact.
But I do think you cannot simply assume a player good at defensive rebounding will automatically be good at offensive rebounding.
There is a really good old post on reddit that goes into depth on rebounding and Regularized Adjusted Rebounding stats. There was also a link to a 53 minute podcast just on the value of rebounding that I remember listening to a few years ago from Ben Taylor but it looks like the link is now broken. Anyway, here is the write up from a very smart redditor: https://www.reddit.com/r/nbadiscussi...erlooked_stat/
i remember Enes Kanter had a reputation for being an offensive rebounding specialist, dont know how his numbers held up
i remember Jakob similarly, better on the offensive glass than defensive
Generally speaking, this is where I'm at as well. The Spurs have dragged their feet accepting the importance of 3P shooting over the years. Historically, they've deemphasized offensive rebounding. I don't see the problem with considering Fleming for an important role, not to mention further emphasizing defense, which to me is also important.
Castle, Fox, and Wemby all appear to be ball dominant. Two role players next to them to provide shooting and cutting is sensible.
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