Pick #2 - Strategies

[baseline bum]

As I said earlier, I'm in favor of keeping #2. That said, we are pretty sure there's going to be a conversation with Milwaukee for Giannis, so if your 'talking' with them do you also pick up the phone and check in with Denver and LA? Wouldn't due diligence dictate that they do that? It's not a prediction or a suggestion that there's a deal there on either side, but I think you have to check in. Luka might not like being in LA and refuses to sign an extension or maybe Denver ownership gets cheap and won't reasonably put a team around the Joker? I'm just saying that I don't think Nico is the last boneheaded GM in the be league.

There is nothing I want from Denver other than Jokic and they're not trading him.

[mo7888]

If there is one thing the Spurs absolutely love in the draft it's big guards who can run an offense. Though I'm sure there will be a ton of discussion in the front office about trading the pick too. I'd be really surprised with them drafting Edgecombe over Harper though.

I'd be surprised if they took Edgecombe over Harper, but i do think it's close between those two. The only reason I have Harper slightly ahead is because he can play multiple positions while Edgecombe is strictly a 2.

[rascal]

I think that move would cement Fox, Castle, Harper never playing together at the 1,2,3, no?

How many minutes do you think Castle, Fox and Harper will play together at the 1,2 and 3? 5-10 minutes a game
They can get 32 minutes a game each alternating rest at the guard positions then castle can move over to SF for another 5- 10 to open up more minutes for all three.

Still can add a starting quality SF to that arrangement.

[The Truth #6]

Not with a top pick. They never F around with those. If they keep the pick, they’re taking Harper.

I definitely hope so. And I'm not saying I expect them to do something wacky like that, but as fans, I think it is good to remind ourselves we're not making the decisions and the Spurs can be unorthodox from the outside perspective.

[Manu&Duncan fan]

And, is Fox/Harper/Castle/PF/Wemby all that different than SGA/Dort/JW/Chet/Hart?

Yes. Our line up will beat Thunder's in 2 years.

Because we have an alien.

[LeBowen]

How many minutes do you think Castle, Fox and Harper will play together at the 1,2 and 3? 5-10 minutes a game
They can get 32 minutes a game each alternating rest at the guard positions then castle can move over to SF for another 5- 10 to open up more minutes for all three.

Still can add a starting quality SF to that arrangement.

Here's my idea from yesterday, assuming we get a legit starting PF.
I used John Collins in this case, with him being able to play both PF/C.
Keldon is done and we don't need both #14 and Jeremy if we assume it's a rookie forward.
Jeremy can stay if #14 is a C and replaces veteran backup.

240 minutes available, 48 per position.

PG: Fox (34), Harper (14), Wesley
SG: Castle (32), Harper (16), Branham
SF: Barnes (20), Devin (28), Champagnie
PF: Collins (18), Barnes (8), Jeremy or #14 (22), Mamu
C: Wemby (34), Collins (14), veteran backup

[The Truth #6]

I'm not bothered by someone being low on Harper. The goal is to be right, not to follow the crowd. The issue is to be so lost in the sauce that you'd trade Harden, Irving, Westbrook or Lillard for some role-players. Simply put, Fox is at least a tier below each of those players. If we're hypothetically saying Harper is going to pan out to be like on the level of any of those four, why shouldn't the Spurs trade Fox for the role-players instead?

Earlier I said if a trade HAS to be made, since that is the impulse here, than why not Fox instead of Harper. It's not like Fox has played more than, what, 20 games for us. If course that would be a BAD look. But this is all ridiculous speculation anyway.

for me, if Harper does have this great ceiling and potential, and we have him on a very affordable contract for 4 years, combined with the fact that fox is going to need a lot of money, and Devin already gets too much money, and Devin is going to be hard to trade, I don't know, it's hard for me to get super attached to Fox.

Anyway. Just rambling...

[mo7888]

There is nothing I want from Denver other than Jokic and they're not trading him.

I'm not suggesting that they will. I'm just suggesting that 'due diligence' suggests that we make the call after Denver gets knocked out tomorrow. Same with LA....

[rascal]

Fultz and Lonzo were supposed to be superstar PGs until they were nothing. Something is better than nothing. Spurs don't need to take the gamble, Wemby doesn't have to wait. Just get the elite role players and make the leap.

If this team doesn't add shooting in starting positions it will be capped much lower than it should.

If you don't believe in Harper being great then you will be wrong if you think he has a chance to be like Fultz (who never looked very good to me). Lonzo wasn't bad( Harper looks even better than Ball, Harper is going to be special) and if he had Wemby they would win.

You don't trade future stars for role players. It took getting lucky getting the 2nd pick to get Harper, don't throw away getting that luck and a chance at getting Harper for role players.

Harper, Castle and Wemby are close in age and it took incredible luck to land three top 4 picks in three consecutive years. You build around that core for the next 10-15 years.

You can't trade Fox now.
It will be doing him dirty trading him now so he stays for a couple of years at least.

You can add role players are a lower cost, Vassell, Keldon, Sochan, who are themselves role players. Just trade role players for better fit role players.

[rascal]

Here's my idea from yesterday, assuming we get a legit starting PF.
I used John Collins in this case, with him being able to play both PF/C.
Keldon is done and we don't need both #14 and Jeremy if we assume it's a rookie forward.
Jeremy can stay if #14 is a C and replaces veteran backup.

Yes and you can also play Castle, Harper and Fox together for a few minutes together to open more minutes for all three.

You showed it's doable minutes wise

[Manu20]

The Spurs should just pick Harper with #2 as he looks to be by a fairly wide margin the 2nd best player in this draft. Only way they should trade the #2 pick is if the Bucks are willing to work on a trade for Giannis. And no Fox should and would not be in any trade discussions as that would be a bad look for the Spurs.

IMO we should not trade the #2 pick for "Elite Role Players" if the Spurs decide to trade, it should be for an establish star.

[LeBowen]

Earlier I said if a trade HAS to be made, since that is the impulse here, than why not Fox instead of Harper. It's not like Fox has played more than, what, 20 games for us. If course that would be a BAD look. But this is all ridiculous speculation anyway.

Because even if Harper was the best prospect ever, he still hasn't played a single NBA game. Nothing is guaranteed.
We can't waste another season, we have to make the playoffs.
If we don't take Harper or trade Fox/Castle, we'd need another point guard yet again. Castle isn't a true point guard, we need him and two more.
Don't forget that self-creation and paint penetration was our biggest issue on offense last season before we got Fox.

Castle was the only perimeter player who got to the rim with ease, but his FT% was subpar and his finishing at the rim wasn't ideal.
Keldon's every drive was a roulette spin.
CP3 had no legs left, didn't even have a layup attempt in most games.
Wemby's isos were cringe most of the time.
Others were all a net negative with the ball in their hands.

Spurs 24-25 roster without CP3 needs another self-creator who can get to the rim at will.
We need a point guard, but don't want to use significant cap space on one.
Harper will be overqualified for the 6th man role, but he'll easily get 30mpg and if he's indeed the next star guard, he'll find himself in the starting lineup in no time.
Idk why are you people overthinking this.

We need every good player we can get.
We want to make the playoffs, we have a rookie coach, can't leave him with a rookie and a sophmore as the only useful ballhandlers on the roster.

[rascal]

Earlier I said if a trade HAS to be made, since that is the impulse here, than why not Fox instead of Harper. It's not like Fox has played more than, what, 20 games for us. If course that would be a BAD look. But this is all ridiculous speculation anyway.

for me, if Harper does have this great ceiling and potential, and we have him on a very affordable contract for 4 years, combined with the fact that fox is going to need a lot of money, and Devin already gets too much money, and Devin is going to be hard to trade, I don't know, it's hard for me to get super attached to Fox.

Anyway. Just rambling...

They need to find a way to trade Vassell

[baseline bum]

Earlier I said if a trade HAS to be made, since that is the impulse here, than why not Fox instead of Harper. It's not like Fox has played more than, what, 20 games for us. If course that would be a BAD look. But this is all ridiculous speculation anyway.

for me, if Harper does have this great ceiling and potential, and we have him on a very affordable contract for 4 years, combined with the fact that fox is going to need a lot of money, and Devin already gets too much money, and Devin is going to be hard to trade, I don't know, it's hard for me to get super attached to Fox.

Anyway. Just rambling...

Because it would piss off every agent in the league and no one would come here when a star forces his way to the team only to get sent somewhere he didn't want to be 4 months later. Not to mention ing a guy over who was so excited to come here he burned his reputation by forcing the trade. Plus we don't know if Harper or Castle ever becomes better than Fox anyways.

[baseline bum]

They need to find a way to trade Vassell

Yeah there is no room for that bum with Harper added to the mix.

[rascal]

As I said earlier, I'm in favor of keeping #2. That said, we are pretty sure there's going to be a conversation with Milwaukee for Giannis, so if your 'talking' with them do you also pick up the phone and check in with Denver and LA? Wouldn't due diligence dictate that they do that? It's not a prediction or a suggestion that there's a deal there on either side, but I think you have to check in. Luka might not like being in LA and refuses to sign an extension or maybe Denver ownership gets cheap and won't reasonably put a team around the Joker? I'm just saying that I don't think Nico is the last boneheaded GM in the be league.

Giannis is going to be an all chips in move that the Spurs have said they don't want to do. It's going to cost Harper maybe even Castle along with more draft picks.
You will be trading a 10-15 year window for a 4 year win now window.

Spurs have a history of not going for the all chips in type of moves.

Spurs plan all along was being patient and build through the draft and luck has been on their side. It has worked great.

[The Truth #6]

Because it would piss off every agent in the league and no one would come here when a star forces his way to the team only to get sent somewhere he didn't want to be 4 months later. Not to mention ing a guy over who was so excited to come here he burned his reputation by forcing the trade. Plus we don't know if Harper or Castle ever becomes better than Fox anyways.

For the record, I'm not in favor of trading away our good players. Just having fun with the conversation that seems fixated on trading Harper.

[baseline bum]

I'd be surprised if they took Edgecombe over Harper, but i do think it's close between those two. The only reason I have Harper slightly ahead is because he can play multiple positions while Edgecombe is strictly a 2.

Edgecombe and Harper are about the same as three point shooters. Shot nearly the same percentage on nearly the same volume. Sure Edgecombe is a better defender but it's really all he has on Harper. If Edgecombe had Harrison Barnes' size to play the 3 and some spot 4 this would be a much more interesting debate but he's not and the gap between the two is pretty sizeable IMO given Harper is a legit PG and huge for the position.

[LeBowen]

Edgecombe and Harper are about the same as three point shooters. Shot nearly the same percentage on nearly the same volume. Sure Edgecombe is a better defender but it's really all he has on Harper. If Edgecombe had Harrison Barnes' size to play the 3 and some spot 4 this would be a much more interesting debate but he's not and the gap between the two is pretty sizeable IMO given Harper is a legit PG and huge for the position.

While you're at Barnes, yesterday I read an interesting comparison that Ace's measurements, college stats and projections are as close as it gets to Barnes.
Do we take a potential Barnes over potential Cade just because we need a forward more?

[baseline bum]

Spurs plan all along was being patient and build through the draft and luck has been on their side. It has worked great.

Damn is that the understatement of the year. Never in my wildest dreams did I imagine the Spurs would be in position to draft Harper after just getting Wemby and Castle. They probably do have an OKC level juggernaut now by taking Harper. Gonna be pretty ridiculous in 2-3 years having three guys with star PG skills on the floor with Wemby to close out playoff games.

[baseline bum]

While you're at Barnes, yesterday I read an interesting comparison that Ace's measurements, college stats and projections are as close as it gets to Barnes.
Do we take a potential Barnes over potential Cade just because we need a forward more?

No way, Barnes was an elite defender at UNC.

[LeBowen]

Damn is that the understatement of the year. Never in my wildest dreams did I imagine the Spurs would be in position to draft Harper after just getting Wemby and Castle. They probably do have an OKC level juggernaut now by taking Harper. Gonna be pretty ridiculous in 2-3 years having three guys with star PG skills on the floor with Wemby to close out playoff games.

Tbh, we'll have some first world problems.
We won't be able to trade most of the near future picks because they have swaps attached.
Obivously they'll be able to, but you don't want to give up a potential lottery pick and we won't be doing any more star player trades due to cap situation.

2026: ATL swap.
2027: Own pick already gone, ATL unprotected.
2028: BOS swap.
2029: The only one without a swap.
2030: DAL/MIN swap.
2031: SAC swap.

Some of those could get us more lottery picks.

[DAF86]

You're kinda tiptoeing around it, but you do seem to be low on Harper's potential that you are entertaining the idea of trading him for a bunch of unproven role players who have done jack in their career as far contributing to winning basketball..

No, I said I haven't watched much of Harper. What bugs me is that, from his scouting report, he's very redundant with Fox and Castle.

[baseline bum]

Tbh, we'll have some first world problems.
We won't be able to trade most of the near future picks because they have swaps attached.
Obivously they'll be able to, but you don't want to give up a potential lottery pick and we won't be doing any more star player trades due to cap situation.

2026: ATL swap.
2027: Own pick already gone, ATL unprotected.
2028: BOS swap.
2029: The only one without a swap.
2030: DAL/MIN swap.
2031: SAC swap.

Some of those could get us more lottery picks.

Yeah that's why I only ever wanted to include the 2029 or the lesser 2025 when we were talking KD trades. And man all of a sudden that top 1 protected Boston swap in 2028 is looking pretty interesting with Tatum's achilles tear, knowing the Celtics are going to gut their team this summer.

[DAF86]

I do think the best course of action is to just draft Harper and see how it unfolds. You always have time to make trades later (although you might lose value).