Spurs Select F Jeremy Sochan with the 9th Pick in the 2022 NBA Draft

[DAF86]

Harper vs Cade is kind of a weird comparison because aside from being high usage tall guards who are only decent athletes, their profiles have very little in common. In fact, stylistically they are basically opposites of one another.

College Harper:
-Gets the the rim at will (1:0.5:0.9 ratio of close 2P: far 2P: 3P)
-Historically efficient at the rim (70% shooting)
-Draws fouls at a high rate (42% FTR)
-Minimizes turnovers while creating for others (27 AST% vs 15 TO%, 1.7:1 AST:TO)
-Struggles shooting from anywhere outside the paint (31% midrange, 33% 3P, 75% FT)

College Cade:
-Struggles getting all the way to the rim (1:1.3:1.4 ratio of close 2P: far 2P: 3P)
-Only decent rim efficiency (62%)
-Good FTR (39%)
-Huge problem with turnovers (20 AST% vs 22 TO%, 0.85 AST:TO)
-Jump shot has never been a concern (34% midrange, 40% 3P, 85% FT)

Stylistically it's almost like comparing De'aaron Fox to De'Angelo Russell (not comparing level of play, just way of generating offense)

It was Harper himself that started the comparisson:

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...ga-ahead-draft

[DAF86]

He's projecting Sochan as Iggy and Harper (or Castle) as Cunningham.

After reading Kevin O' Connor's article, Uriel might be projecting Castle as Iggy and Harper as Cade.

[ambchang]

Good he’s working on the shot and actually strung three makes together. The shot looks smoother, it’s not all the yea there as there seems to be a slight delay and fling, but instead of a two motion shot it’s like a 1.3 motion shot now.

Not a Huge fan of that lean and legs kicking to the right motion, as he still seems to be lacking full balance and control.

Keep shooting, sochan making 2 3s a game at 33% would be a goal this year.

[scott]

[T Park]

I think you can buy into shot form. not "Oh man he made this many in a row" but the form, the speed of the shot I think you can agree are encouraging and signs of improvement.

still on team Sochan, think it would be a mistake to give up on him.

[Mnky]

I’m tired of people posting this lie. In Gordon’s 3rd year he made 80 three pointers. In Sochans 3rd year he didn’t even attempt 80 three pointers nvm make 80. Gordon made 350% more three pointers than Sochan. In his 4th year Gordon got hurt but he was on track to make 160 games but instead ended up making 120 threes a game. Can you honestly say you expect Sochan to even take 120 threes next season?

Ya’ll can say things about Sochans game that will actually improve that is going to help the team (maybe his defense and his attention to detail, maybe his secondary play making, maybe he just becomes a rebounding magnet and averages 8+ a game) but his shooting isn’t going to improve enough for their to take any merit in it.

You're making the argument in support of Sochan. He has never been tasked with being an offensive guy. They gave him playmaker duties for awhile and he learned how to dribble and his off ball awareness rose a ton.

The fact that he hasn't shot many threes but went half a year as the worse PG in the league shows that he's not not doing it because it's bad. It just hasn't been the focus. They spent years retraining his arm. I never had a problem with the hitch because it was a natural progression for him to go through. When youre over riding a bad habit, you create a new one in steps. Anyone who has actual coaching experience knows this.

He might be the worse shooter in the league this year, but his form and shot have improved in the gym. That's not even arguable. Maybe it doesn't translate at all in the game but who cares. It's improved. It's just silly to say otherwise. Form is so much better and now he may be expected to take those shots if he wants to stick around with Wemby. Clearly he's doing what he can to get there.

Literally all he can do is being done and people still whine.

[Mnky]

I think you can buy into shot form. not "Oh man he made this many in a row" but the form, the speed of the shot I think you can agree are encouraging and signs of improvement.

still on team Sochan, think it would be a mistake to give up on him.

Always been a fan of Sochan. Still super young, his prime is still 5-7 years away. He has done everything they've asked and he plays well against our biggest threats in the league. He gets better every year and people still just hate instead of appreciate the growth.

I don't expect them to move him unless it was a Gianni's type situation. Him and Castle are perfect for the western conference teams we have to defend. Helps Wemby so much. You're not bringing in anyone that can help Wemby defensively like Sochan versatility can.

[RC_Drunkford]

we should sign Jakob Poeltl. He shot 100% from 3 in 21-22. It was 1 attempt, but it was from half court. He might be Steph Curry.

[Ice009]

Simmons didn't show us except that he has an extremely large stock of coconut oil. Sochan showed us his shot doesn't look like a 45 minute process anymore.

What's this Ben Simmons coconut oil thing?

[rascal]

Didn't we hear the same thing last summer. Sochan is working on his shot and it looks better.

[KobesAchilles]

You're making the argument in support of Sochan. He has never been tasked with being an offensive guy. They gave him playmaker duties for awhile and he learned how to dribble and his off ball awareness rose a ton.

The fact that he hasn't shot many threes but went half a year as the worse PG in the league shows that he's not not doing it because it's bad. It just hasn't been the focus. They spent years retraining his arm. I never had a problem with the hitch because it was a natural progression for him to go through. When youre over riding a bad habit, you create a new one in steps. Anyone who has actual coaching experience knows this.

He might be the worse shooter in the league this year, but his form and shot have improved in the gym. That's not even arguable. Maybe it doesn't translate at all in the game but who cares. It's improved. It's just silly to say otherwise. Form is so much better and now he may be expected to take those shots if he wants to stick around with Wemby. Clearly he's doing what he can to get there.

Literally all he can do is being done and people still whine.

I didn’t know that changing his shot every single year he’s been in the league is good coaching. From my experience teaching him a different form every single year isn’t a good thing. But meh what do I know?

What do I know? That Sochan next year won’t be a good volume 3 point shooter. That’s what I know. No whining, but I’m not sold on him being a volume 3 point shooter bc he changed his shot… again

[Poolboy5623]

is he shooting free throws with two hands now??

[LeBowen]

Guys, I think this player is a great prospect, look at his combine workout, making those 3pts with ease at :50 in the video.



Oh, wait...that's a video from 2022, nevermind.

[NASpurs]

I haven't been this impressed with a workout video ever since I watched future Spurs prospect Kevin Tran.

[spurraider21]

That’s a fake stat. If a player chucked 12 3s per game and shot 25%, according to you, he's elite, since he makes 3.

uhh, volume matters too. a guy who makes 39% from 3 on 7 attempts per game is going to be a better floor spacer than somebody who makes 43% on 3 attempts per game (assuming they play similar minutes)

[dbestpro]

I will be happy with Sochan when he realizes the team needs him to be a Swiss Army knife of defense. He needs to be more Bowen and less Manu.

[Mnky]

I didn’t know that changing his shot every single year he’s been in the league is good coaching. From my experience teaching him a different form every single year isn’t a good thing. But meh what do I know?

What do I know? That Sochan next year won’t be a good volume 3 point shooter. That’s what I know. No whining, but I’m not sold on him being a volume 3 point shooter bc he changed his shot… again

You don't become a shooter in one year. He had a horrific elbow issue with his form which is why the free throw from went in place. His free throws improved drastically, not slight or some. It was a drastic increase. Trying to learn 10 steps in one year is absolutely courner productive. You don't learn algebra 1, 2, geometry and calculus in one year. You take it gradually in steps. This doesn't change in athletics as much as people think it does. Steph is the best shooter ever, he still spends more time working on his shot than anyone. Irving has ridiculous handles, you still see him working on them constantly when he's just hanging around.

It takes time to develop things in reality as opposed to people expecting instant results. Sochan was tasked with being an all around defender. That's what he was drafted for and that's what he's been assigned with usually guarding the best player. He's done a great job at what he was supposed to.

Sure most people agree he won't be a good volume shooter next year. Noone expects him to be a good volume shooter. People are saying he's improving. He is. That's all.

[KobesAchilles]

You don't become a shooter in one year. He had a horrific elbow issue with his form which is why the free throw from went in place. His free throws improved drastically, not slight or some. It was a drastic increase. Trying to learn 10 steps in one year is absolutely courner productive. You don't learn algebra 1, 2, geometry and calculus in one year. You take it gradually in steps. This doesn't change in athletics as much as people think it does. Steph is the best shooter ever, he still spends more time working on his shot than anyone. Irving has ridiculous handles, you still see him working on them constantly when he's just hanging around.

It takes time to develop things in reality as opposed to people expecting instant results. Sochan was tasked with being an all around defender. That's what he was drafted for and that's what he's been assigned with usually guarding the best player. He's done a great job at what he was supposed to.

Sure most people agree he won't be a good volume shooter next year. Noone expects him to be a good volume shooter. People are saying he's improving. He is. That's all.

This is the dumbest I’ve heard in a long time. The dude isn’t a little kid. For professionals you do actually teach them how to shoot the first time. It’s been 4 ing years. Hardly “instant” that you’re ing about. You don’t teach him one way one year. A new way a second year and a brand new way a 3rd year. That’s just stupid. That isn’t how you teach someone how to shoot. Nobody told grown ass Steph Curry to shoot one way and work on it and then the next summer completely rehaul his shot and work on it and then the next summer completely rehaul his shot again and work on it. That’s just stupidity. Those aren’t proper steps. What happened is one person taught him one thing. Another person came in and taught him something completely different. Great ing coaching gtfoh

And where is the proof he has improved? If he doesn’t take and make 3s then he hasn’t really improved at all.

[objective]

Week old news I guess everyone but me knew about, but apparently Pelton did an article where he wrote about getting undervalued players to win a trade, i.e. the Pacers Paul George trade for Oladipo and Sabonis, and Pelton brought up Sochan among others as an undervalued player to target.

Haven't read it myself, just heard a summary on the daily dunks podcast from a week ago

[SpursGenius]

Givony an idiot has Harper falling to 4 and Spurs taking Kneuppel at 2

[SpursBills]

Week old news I guess everyone but me knew about, but apparently Pelton did an article where he wrote about getting undervalued players to win a trade, i.e. the Pacers Paul George trade for Oladipo and Sabonis, and Pelton brought up Sochan among others as an undervalued player to target.

Haven't read it myself, just heard a summary on the daily dunks podcast from a week ago

It's not an insane take by Pelton. This sounds weird, but I would wager that if you factor in age and impact, a Jeremy Sochan who's a league-average shooter or above can develop into one of the better off-ball wings in the league. He's not worth a whole lot right now because off-ball wings who can't shoot are worth next to nothing in this league, but we also ignore the fact that many of the off-ball wings who can shoot in the league didn't necessarily start shooting decently until their age 23-24 season while he just finished his age 21 season. For example, age 23 DFS was shooting 29% in the pros, age 21 Toumani was shooting 34% on low volume from the college line, age 21 Herb Jones shot 1/14 from the college 3 point line while hitting 63% FT.

If you take away his shooting and compare everything else to similar defensive off-ball wings, he's just straight up better at the same age in the stuff that's important - his frame will make it so he's not as vulnerable to getting bullied compared do slighter guys like McDaniels/Mikal Bridges, and he slides his feet about as well or better than most wings. While he doesn't generate turnovers like the super lengthy guys, his rebound rates (both offensive and defensive) clear everyone (including Gordon) and so he's able to get extra possessions that way, especially if you play him as a wing - which is the key. Part of that is because he plays inside, but he's defending on the perimeter too. Not surprisingly, his impact metrics are comparable to a ton of the current premier off-ball wings in their age 21 season in spite of the fact that he still can't shoot worth a .

So basically you've got a guy who's got a huge disparity in his value depending on if his shot comes around or not, and he's too young to really definitively say whether he's going to be a terrible shooter or an average one. If his shot doesn't come around, he's a non-shooting wing like Jarred Vanderbilt, who's worth maybe 10-12 million a year and basically a second round pick. But if his shot does come around, that might be a McDaniels-level guy who's worth 30 million and at least a couple decent 1st rounders. If the spurs are willing to treat him as a throw-in and you're a rival front office, it's a smart gamble to take.

[mo7888]

Deleted

[Mnky]

This is the dumbest I’ve heard in a long time. The dude isn’t a little kid. For professionals you do actually teach them how to shoot the first time. It’s been 4 ing years. Hardly “instant” that you’re ing about. You don’t teach him one way one year. A new way a second year and a brand new way a 3rd year. That’s just stupid. That isn’t how you teach someone how to shoot. Nobody told grown ass Steph Curry to shoot one way and work on it and then the next summer completely rehaul his shot and work on it and then the next summer completely rehaul his shot again and work on it. That’s just stupidity. Those aren’t proper steps. What happened is one person taught him one thing. Another person came in and taught him something completely different. Great ing coaching gtfoh

And where is the proof he has improved? If he doesn’t take and make 3s then he hasn’t really improved at all.

People are providing literal visual evidence his form has improved. Like I said, that's not even arguable. It's different and better than it used to be. That's their point and you're trying your hardest to rain on that parade.

You can always tell the people who are stuck in a teenage mindset with their view on learning. You actually learn much better at a younger age than an older age. Your brain functions more efficient for the purpose of learning and habit creating at a young age. It's why young kids learn to be bilingual so easily compared to their adult cournerparts. Your brain literally rewires and becomes less efficient at learning as you age.

Once again, anyone with actual knowledge or experience understands that you don't just change a lifetime of habit over night.

Everything you're saying to attack the process is just you spitting in the wind hoping you land on something relevant. You have no clue what he has done or been told. The only thing you have is what people are sharing, which is evidence of improvement.

By all means, continue pushing your made up narrative with no evidence or experience.

Cheers.

[Ditty]

Sochan is such a troll that he probably has been ing with us the past 3 years that he could not shoot.

[RC_Drunkford]

sounds like he's getting shipped out in the KD deal