It would have been great if he was healthy last season so we could have a better evaluation. He looked rather pedantic, sure some of that was just being on a new team, but i'm hoping that injury was mostly the issue.
Harper wasn't involved then. Harper was a far fetched unlikely dream when the trade was made. Spurs were in the mix for the play-in and possibly the playoffs.Never thought I'd agree with exstatic so much in a single thread tbh
As I said earlier, if you don't like this extension then you should have hated the deadline deal because this contract was locked up the moment Fox made it public that the Spurs were his preferred destination.
Now I know you're being unserious.
It did the second the ink was dry on the contract.
I suspect people are going to be shocked at how relatively small Harper's role will be and that it'll only be a matter of time before it becomes an issue.
The injury combined with Wemby getting hurt so I’m sure his motivation/excitement for the playoff push went out of the window for the remainder of the season. Probably all he could think about was when he wanted to shut down and get surgery at that point. Not sure why some people here think that was the real Fox we are gonna get next season.
Harper’s role won’t be small. The Spurs organization isn’t that stupid/incompetent. This is the #2 pick! Don’t compare it to the other Spurs rookies(mid-late first rounders) of the past. He will get #2 pick level opportunities as long as he shows he is capable.
What do you mean by "small"? I would be very surprised if Harper isn't getting, at least, 25 mpg all season long, tbh. Regardless of any playoffs aspiration, to have a possible future franchise player getting less than 25 mpg on his rookie season would be monumentally dumb by the Spurs, and I don't see the Spurs as a monumentally dumb organization.
most likely he will sub for fox and castle off the bench
Spurs like flexibility and need star power so this makes sense. Keep everyone and see who plays well.
I'm old enough so the numbers look shocking but probably a better contract than Devin's - at least Fox can make things happen with the ball in his hands. Moving Devin looks difficult.
Keldon and Jeremy - they should either have to sign cheap or move on. I'm guessing the Spurs will look to to replace them with either old veterans or Julian affordable type of players.
We'll see. Nothing is screwed yet.
Basically people value Harper over Wemby is what its looking like.
Even worse, then you're just lying on purpose to push narratives that obviously aren't true.I have season tickets last 5 years and go to every game
How can you even talk about Spurs being nowhere near the playoffs when they were around .500 and traded for Fox? You can't hold Wemby's DVT against the front office.
I get you don't rate Fox, but this take is just wrong and you've been at it ever since we traded for him even though it's obviously not true and it's been debunked many times.
SGA, Ja, Conley, Harden, FVV, Curry, Murray, Luka, Cade, Brunson, Lillard, Haliburton, Herro, Garland, Suggs, Jrue, Giddey, Trae, Monk, Kyrie.
Those are the primary ballhandlers on 20 teams that made the play-in this season.
How many are better defenders than Fox?
SGA, Suggs, Jrue for sure. The best guard in the league and two defense specialists who generate very little offense.
FVV, Conley have a case. Harden and Cade can be solid in some setups because of their size, even though they're bad defenders.
Either way, Fox is clearly above average compared to other primary ballhandlers.
How many are bigger than Fox?
SGA, Harden, Murray, Luka, Cade, Suggs, Jrue, Giddey.
Key word bigger, I'm not going to nitpick over an inch of height for players like Herro or Haliburton when they're twigs and non-factors on defense with Fox being clearly better than them.
Out of those bigger players, we come to the same conclusion that other than the already mentioned elite defenders, Fox is better than the rest as a defender, with some like Luka/Giddey being so bad that even the huge size advantage doesn't really matter since they're awful on that end.
Again, Fox is most definitely above average in both size and defensive ability if we compare him to other playoff ballhandlers.
Just because OKC and Celtics have found a perfect recipe for the modern game, it doesn't mean other teams also did, they're the exception and not the norm.
That's with Fox's defensive ability being rated with a defensively tragic team around him and one of the worst rim protectors in the league having his back.
Look no further than Spurs when Wemby wasn't on the floor, playing defense without a rim protector is just a different sport and can't be held against players unless they're absolutely tragic on that end. Like for example Keldon if we're talking Spurs.
Will Fox ever be an elite man to man defender? Most definitely not, but saying he's bad when he had to score 25ppg on one end and didn't have any defensive personnel around him on the other is just hating for the sake of it.
Steals are often inflated and sometimes even a bad sign because players like to gamble too much, but I think Fox can be great as an off-ball matchup for shooters that don't stop moving because he'll be able to easily keep up with them and take advantage of any errant passes.
Would I prefer Harper/Castle to develop into idk, Jrue/Jimmy like duo? Obviously. But until then Fox is more than enough on defense and we need an offensive engine to start winning games on consistent basis.
Non-playmaking? This is just hating for the sake of it.
Small sample size, but Fox averaged 6.8 assists with 2.8 ast/to ratio after the trade.
He's not an elite playmaker, but Spurs don't want to have a heliocentric guard and 6 to 7 assists he'll average are more than enough.
He's not a superstar who can be the first option, but his 25/4/6 averages were consistent over the 4 years before the last season and that's as about as good as it gets for the second option.
48/34/75 efficency isn't bad, either. It can only be better because he's never played with a 3pt shooting big before which is an amazing thing to have if you're a paint penetrating guard.
Yes, 30% of the cap is an overpay, but he's definitely a 25% max player and those 5% won't kill us before 2029. I'd rather give extra 5% to Fox than have friendship crew on their contracts.
If Jeremy gets more than 7 million a year extension, Devin/Keldon/Jeremy will be making more than Fox in 26-27 season when his extension kicks in.
Spurstalk is so funny sometimes.
People are always clamoring that we need to sign stars to win now and keep Wemby happy. And then the Spurs go out and get Fox on a great trade while dumping a bunch of crap.
Then when it comes time to pay said stars, they are upset that we paying market value.
News flash: Players aren't going to come to San Antonio to take a pay cut. This isn't 2005 when we had three Hall of Famers forming a dynasty.
Last edited by Dex; 08-05-2025 at 10:58 AM.
This is really only the case if the Spurs aren’t willing to get creative with lineups. Castle and Vassell can (and should, given the alternatives) soak up minutes at the 3.
I’m guessing Harper gets ~25 mpg as a rookie. First half of the season that might be closer to ~22 mpg but as he gets more comfortable and injuries inevitably pop up I’d hope that it will get more into the ~28ish mpg by the end of the season.
Do you think he’s not even going to play 20 mpg or are you assuming most here are expecting a 30+ mpg role right off the bat?
I don't think it would be a bad look because he got a max extension. If he took a pay cut, then it would have been.
Regarding the situation between Fox, Harper and Spurs:
- It's important to notice that it was the lottery luck that push Harper to Spurs. Spurs didn't try to deliberately screw Fox by adding another PG. It was just that at #2, Harper was a way better prospect than other ones. I'm sure Fox is well aware that drafting Harper was the only logical option for Spurs.
- While there are definitively fit concerns between Fox and Harper, there are only concerns at that stage. There might never have some issues with it. Fox and Harper might be able to play well together or Harper might just turn into a bust.
- Fox has already faced that situation in Sacramento with Haliburton. It ended with Haliburton being traded for Sabonis. This time, it would be more logical for Spurs to keep Harper and trade Fox given Wembanayama's age if Harper is as promising as Haliburton was in Sacramento.
Spurs might be headed into a delicate situation with Fox and Harper. It might occur in 6 months, a year, 2 years or never. By signing his extension on August 4th instead of August 6th, Fox gave the possibility for him and Spurs to get out of it as soon as the next trade deadline if needed.
Fox is an eloquent, humble and smart young man.
but would the Spurs sign him to a max, if he and Wemby didn't match on AND off court? I don't think so.
so, even if Wemby doesn't play an active role in this, to keep him comfortable by adding/keeping a person he likes, does count.
Never in a million years - never - will i understand/comprehend -sports fans spending hours and hours and hours of their lives;
arguing
debating
insulting each other
on money paid to players...when ZERO dollars ...are coming from anyone here who is not an owner.
I guess it would be like me and my family having years-long arguments - over the budget of our neighbor down the ing block.
Someone/anyone - make it make sense.
Oh, by the way , ive been a lifelong spurs fan since they were the chapparrals...so those insults wont work here...i am a fan and supporter blah blah
but not one penny of mine was ever used to pay gervin,timmy,d rob,tp,wemby, etc....not one penny - so why invest years of my life caring about spurs players salaries?
I get the hate on this contract. It's a huge sum. Spurs usually do the big contract in players prime though.
I like it. No BS of extension talks leading into the season or throughout. Contract ends as he is peaking.
He got his contract and now and can just focus on the upcoming season.
Both Wemby and Fox healthy is going to be exciting to watch have some front court depth now with Olynyk and Kornet and not Bassey and Zach Collins combo.
Harper doesn't have the pressure of having to live up to the 2nd overall and can just focus on improving and playing behind or next to Fox and Castle.
It was a top 16 protected pick. Chicago selected #12.
You stated that the Spurs traded away an "already lottery pick." But the only way the Spurs would have actually had that pick was if it was outside the lottery.
The claim that they "traded away a lottery pick" is disingenuous. Just because the Bulls eventually used that pick at #12 doesn't mean the Spurs gave away the #12 pick.
You can't front-load a max contract because it's a max contract. Math doesn't work.
I would have loved it if the rumours about him getting a bit less were true but it can't be a surprise to anyone following the Spurs closely that he got the max. He already declined a max offer from Sacramento, I mean...
If he stays healthy I don't imagine it's going to be a bad contract as these are his prime years. Spurs aren't going to have cap space for a while anyway, whether Fox got 25% or 30%. It'll be about carefully managing the cap, which the Spurs have been good at historically. We can only hope that either Castle or Harper, or both, get to a level where the Spurs would have to extend them to max or near-max deals. I can see Fox finish his contract in Heat colours.
Paying "max" money to an all-star caliber player entering his prime should not be controversial. If the other guards reach their potential in the next two years, it'll be a good problem to have.
Knew the max was coming as that was payment for Fox tanking his value to force a trade to the Spurs. Some flexibility is maintained as the Spurs have so many of their major pieces on rookie deals.
Was kind of hoping though that this would have been a Chet/Jdub "max" where there were escalators that required all star or all nba selections. Would have made the 50-60M/yr more palatable.
OKC media source loves it but not for good reasons:
https://thunderousintentions.com/okc...e-major-reason
The CHI pick was Top 10 protected this year and then Top 8 protected for the next two. If we held on to that pick, no doubt Chicago would have continued to managing their W/L record to stay in the Top 10, but it still would have been in play for the next two years.
Your facts are incorrect here, but it is still true to say it is disingenuous to say the pick would have conveyed to us last year.
Actually it is highly impossible for either of them to reach peak fox levels. 25/6/4 is franchise level numbers. With wemby Around, then fox, then harper and castle in the 3rd spot there simply won’t be enough shots usage for those types of numbers. My biggest wish is for Harper and/or castle to be the best 2/3 or 3/4 they could be and embracing it.
I think one of them can reach 25ppg if the other one fails and Spurs become a one-two punch instead of a three-headed monster.
Realistically, it would be amazing if Castle can become Derrick White level player and if Harper reaches Parker's 22/7 peak while being a positive defender.
New CBA will be all about who's the best player in the league, which healthy Wemby will obviously be.
You beat those players with superteams which will be impossible to create with such strict cap rules. It really works in our favor.
This is also why I’m not concerned about a theoretical crisis where both Castle and Harper require max deals to retain. Behind Wemby and Fox, it’s going to be nearly impossible for both of them to elevate their play to max levels. One of them, perhaps, but not both.
On the other hand, if both of them do elevate their play to max levels, then it probably means that one of Wemby or Fox has gotten hurt or fallen off a cliff. And it will also mean that Vassell is probably a 12ppg bench scorer whose contract looks terrible. The other scenario is just that by Harper Y3/Castle Y4, that they are both outplaying Fox at a max player, at which time you look to trade Fox. But for that to happen, Harper is going to have to hit the high end of his range of outcomes and Castle will have to had developed into more than just a high useage downhill scorer. Good problems to have.
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