Is Manu the greatest international player ever in the NBA?

[DAF86]

I love Manu, but just the fantasy of what Tim could have achieved if the Spurs core is Timmy-Dirk-Parker-Bowen + Pop . MJ's 6 rings will easily be eclipsed by Tim. I can't even start what to imagine.

Yes, I must admit, TIM+DIRK>>>>>TIM+MANU

Do you think that the Spurs'd have won the 05 championship with Dirk instead of Manu?
You always need an All-star quality guard to get the job done in crunch time.

[Udrihlooms]

Do you think that the Spurs'd have won the 05 championship with Dirk instead of Manu?
You always need an All-star quality guard to get the job done in crunch time.

I really don't know. Neither of us can be certain about it.

But I'm sure that we lost the '06 because of that boneheaded Manu foul to Dirk.

If Tim is teaming up with an agile big who can shoot both inside/outside, dribble and requires at least a double team, and a PG (Parker) who is lightning quick, I don't know how our opponents will guard us without asking Stern to change the rules to allow 6-on-5 or probably 7-on-5.

[DAF86]

I wouldn't be so sure...

Anyway, I just meant that there were other great players along with manu during the olympic run. The same can't be said about Parker and France.

Bealive me I'm an Argie and I know that without Manu our national team wouldn't even be half as good.

Anyway, why did you start talking 'bout Parker all of a sudden?

[romain.star]

Do you think that the Spurs'd have won the 05 championship with Dirk instead of Manu?
You always need an All-star quality guard to get the job done in crunch time.

with a Nazr - Tim - Dirk - Bruce - TP team... there's no crunch time

[Udrihlooms]

with a Nazr - Tim - Dirk - Bruce - TP team... there's no crunch time

+1

Tim-Dirk-Parker>>>>>>>>>>>>KG-Pierce-Allen

[romain.star]

Bealive me I'm an Argie and I know that without Manu our national team wouldn't even be half as good.

Anyway, why did you start talking 'bout Parker all of a sudden?

1. With Manu, Argentina is an excellent team, without him, it's a very, very good team.

2. Because all of a sudden, you said something like "call me when TP wins the olympics" in one of your previous post

[DAF86]

I really don't know. Neither of us can be certain about it.

But I'm sure that we lost the '06 because of that boneheaded Manu foul to Dirk.

If Tim is teaming up with an agile big who can shoot both inside/outside, dribble and requires at least a double team, and a PG (Parker) who is lightning quick, I don't know how our opponents will guard us without asking Stern to change the rules to allow 6-on-5 or probably 7-on-5.

But then you wouldn't have an All-star wingman, which happens to be your clutchest guy and a proven winner.
I don't know, maybe the spurs with Dirk'd have been the best team ever or the most talented team to never win a championship we'll never know. What we do know is that in five years with Manu the Spurs have won three of these I don't know how much better the Spurs'd have done

[Udrihlooms]

But then you wouldn't have an All-star wingman, which happens to be your clutchest guy and a proven winner.
I don't know, maybe the spurs with Dirk'd have been the best team ever or the most talented team to never won a championship we'll never know. What we do know is that in five years with Manu the Spurs have won three of these I don't know how much better the Spurs'd have done

That's cool man. I perfectly understand that you're an Argentinian and of course you should be rooting for Manu.

I'm all about Timmy it's just my personal opinion that Timmy may (or may not) have won more with Dirk in this fantasy discussion of ours.

[DAF86]

2. Because all of a sudden, you said something like "call me when TP wins the olympics" in one of your previous post

sorry my bad, that wasn't intended to diss parker or something like that. It was just a response to a guy that said that Parker has a better career than Manu.

P.S: Just for the record i like tony. I think that he's a great player but he doesn't have a better career than Manu in terms of 'ships.

[DAF86]

That's cool man. I perfectly understand that you're an Argentinian and of course you should be rooting for Manu.

I'm all about Timmy it's just my personal opinion that Timmy may (or may not) have won more with Dirk in this fantasy discussion of ours.

it's all goood!
In this fantasy discussion of ours can i imagine what'd have been if Manu'd have landed in LA with Shaq and Kobe then?
That'd have sucked for me though 'cause i'm a Spurs fan since '99 way before Manu got to San Antonio

[Udrihlooms]

it's all goood!
In this fantasy discussion of ours can i imagine what'd have been if Manu'd have landed in LA with Shaq and Kobe then?
That'd have sucked for me though 'cause i'm a Spurs fan since '99 way before Manu got to San Antonio

Shaq-Kobe-Manu??? that'll be hilarious. manu will asked to be traded if he lands and play with these two egotistic (but yes, I admit great) players. Might as well land with the Knicks.

[romain.star]

sorry my bad, that wasn't intended to diss parker or something like that. It was just a response to a guy that said that Parker has a better career than Manu.

P.S: Just for the record i like tony. I think that he's a great player but he doesn't have a better career than Manu in terms of 'ships.

No problem... I'm french but my favorite spurs are Timmy and Manu. Not Tony. Surprising isn't it?
But I'm just tired of biased posts from some Argies about Manu being the best of the best and bla bla bla. It sometimes becomes ridiculous

[DAF86]

No problem... I'm french but my favorite spurs are Timmy and Manu. Not Tony. Surprising isn't it?
But I'm just tired of biased posts from some Argies about Manu being the best of the best and bla bla bla. It sometimes becomes ridiculous

Yeah, I also hate when some of my countrymen say bull like: "Manu's the best player ever" or "this is Manu's team not Duncan's" but I don't think that this thread fits among those remarks.
I truly bealive that's ok to ask if Manu's the best FIBA player to play in the NBA. I can't remember another FIBA player that have won all the things that Manu won while beign a very important part of his team success. The closest thing I can think of is Tony, but he doesn't have all the european 'ships and the Olympic gold (and besides he got to the NBA when he's 19 so i don't know how much of a FIBA player he is).

[ManuAddicted]

Yet Germany could win all the upcoming FIBA tournaments and Patrick Femerling and Mithat Demirel could never sniff the NBA.

How is Dirk a choker in international ball (he isn't one even in the NBA but whatever)? Do you know what he has achieved or not? It seems like you really need to watch more.

Ginobili played for an Argentina team that is one of the most talented top to bottom teams in the international arena. He was their leader, no doubt. But that team had a lot of good players, very good coaching, and a familiarity of playing together for a decade. He didn't win the Olympics by himself.

And Kinder Bologna in Italy wasn't chopped liver you know.

You can say that NOW... But...

Who, in the entire world, guessed that Argentina could beat the USA Team in 2002 and get a silver medal? Who many of you knew who was Ginobili, Nocioni, Oberto, at that time? And, by the way, Argentina lost that final because some irregular officiating AND a injuried Manu.

I have downloaded a lot of stuff since that. In 2004, many reporters and ex players talked about who could won the Olympics. Almost everyone thougth that USA Team were going to get the gold, even argentinian journalist!. Only one among them predicted Argentina could do it... ONLY ONE!! (Simone Sandri).

I insist... You know NOW who are (and what are capable of) Scola, Nocioni, Oberto, Sanchez, Delfino... but at that time... how many of you really thought they could be a Top-3 team?

[bresilhac]

I think Dirk is better than Ginobli

Let's face it. A far as clutch, playoff performances Gino is superior to Nowitski. In games that matter the most there is no question that Gino is better. Some will argue that stats are the true indicator of greatness but for me it's in the clutch performances that are the real indicator of greatness. Manu is a winner. Plain and simple. Very similar to LA's Bryant minus the at ude.

[Pero]

You can say that NOW... But...

Who, in the entire world, guessed that Argentina could beat the USA Team in 2002 and get a silver medal? Who many of you knew who was Ginobili, Nocioni, Oberto, at that time? And, by the way, Argentina lost that final because some irregular officiating AND a injuried Manu.

I have downloaded a lot of stuff since that. In 2004, many reporters and ex players talked about who could won the Olympics. Almost everyone thougth that USA Team were going to get the gold, even argentinian journalist!. Only one among them predicted Argentina could do it... ONLY ONE!! (Simone Sandri).

I insist... You know NOW who are (and what are capable of) Scola, Nocioni, Oberto, Sanchez, Delfino... but at that time... how many of you really thought they could be a Top-3 team?

WTF? Do you know NOW who Demirel, Okulaja, Femerling, Roller, Garett etc.. are??? And still Dirk led his team to 3rd place in WC and 2nd and 3rd in Europe.

[Str8Ballin]

Manu is the greatest flopper ever.

[ManuAddicted]

WTF? Do you know NOW who Demirel, Okulaja, Femerling, Roller, Garett etc.. are??? And still Dirk led his team to 3rd place in WC and 2nd and 3rd in Europe.

Yes... but 2nd, 3rd... never 1st.

Never 1st. He doesn't have the things needed to be a winner.

He choked leading role players. And now that he has anoter great player with him, like Kidd, he still chokes. 0-2 now, and what is the excuse this year?

Until he gets any trophy, for me he'll never be better than Manu. And I'm not in CoM.

Peace!

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

The player Olajuwon is great great player before in playoffs.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

Seriously, some of you have to read about Dirk's international accomplishments.

Germany has some guys that play in second leagues around Europe, pretty much amateurs, and Dirk has made them a contender in every Euro and World Championship, medalling three times I think. Argentina on the other hand has six NBA players and consitently produces talented basketball players.

He has been World Championship MVP once, in Indy, and Euro MVP twice I think. He has always been in the tournament's First Team.

Dirk is as much a legend in the FIBA tournaments as he is in the NBA. Someone should go and watch his game winners against Spain, Russia, Nigeria the last few years. And if you didn't know this: He singlehandedly carried Germany in almost beating the US a couple of years ago. US was saved by an AI 3 point heave from midcourt as time was expiring.

If Hakeem is not considered an international, than Dirk is the best ever. Too bad we never saw Sabonis at his best. The Admiral can tell you how good he really was, afterall he got his ass handed to him in the 88 Olympics by Sabonis.

From person who has see Sabonis before injuries I can say truth. Compares to player like Olajuwon he is nothing.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

You gotta realize that his career was already in decline when he entered the NBA. Yes, he was good in the NBA but if he could have played there sooner, the Blazers would probably win a championship or two with him.

Sabonis is great player yes but I believe Manu is better. Yes I say it Manu is better than Sabas were.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

No.

Petrovic was always in my mind the best, but its a shame we will never know how his career would play out.

Drazen is great player yes but not even best of his time of players. I will never believe he is as good as Galis. Fan saying Galis is not better than him is obvious never see Galis in prime.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

For me, international should be one that hasn't played in high school and/or college in the US, has played in a pro league abroad and most important, plays for a national team other than USA Basketball. The NBA may consider birthplace to label a player as "international", but that's a marketing strategy. I just can't consider Tim Duncan or Hakeem Olajuwon "international" when they've represented USA Basketball in the Olympics and World Championships.

If we are counting NBA achievements only, then no, but he is in the top 5. If individual and team trophies achieved elsewhere are taken into the mix, he's a top 3 without a doubt. The same applies for Sabonis, if you take his overseas career, he is a lock for the first or second place.

Dirk and Nash are the opposite, their NBA careers help their cause, but their international resume doesn't add much.

However, many of these players are still active, so at least a couple of years would be needed to measure their careers.

My top 10, right now:
1- Sabonis
2- Manu
3- Dirk
4- Nash
5- Petrovic
6- Kukoc
7- Mutombo
8- Tony Parker
9- Dino Radja
10- Rik Smits/ Vlade Divac

But that's a list made on the run and I'm probably forgetting a couple of names.

I am very confuse. This list just for NBA player or for all the international player? I hope this just for international player which has play in NBA. if this not such thing this list is joke sorry but true.

[DAF86]

The player Olajuwon is great great player before in playoffs.

Olajuwon played for the U.S national team, so we're not counting him as an international player

[duncan7721]

Anybody remember the big chinese dude with the Rockets?Yao has got to be in there somewhere. And in the manu vs dirk issue, if we were measuring on regular season success, dirk. But dirk is on the verge of being swept, and manu is on the verge of winning the series of the year. Manu.