Did you even watch the game? What on earth are you talking about?
Manu was constantly passing the ball today. His passes often resulted in wide open looks, unlike, for instance, Parker's. Unfortunately the Spurs kept missing and missing and missing.
I don't want to seem like a Manu fan instead of a Spurs fan, but come on people. Manu is the most talented passer in the team.
Manu is clearly nowhere near 100% (although he can fool you for stretches).
Vujacic is a pesky little defender, I'll grant him that.
But when Radmanovic and Peja (in the last series) can stay between Manu & the hoop, clearly he is slowed much more than he is letting him on.
Vlad on Manu should be a huge mismatch in the Spurs favor on that end of the floor and it's been worse than non-existent thus far.
Stop saying Manu got us championships. Duncan got us 3 and did a bulk of work for the 4th (Parker having a good year for the 4th). Manu made the shots he was supposed to make and Spurs were lucky that Manu's excessive turnovers (honestly, Manu isn't a good ball handler) didn't do them in.
Manu WAS NOT the reason for those rings. Duncan and Parker are the reasons.
You didn't even watch the 2005 Finals did you?
I take it back. Nice trolling. You fooled me, for a second I thought you were actually a Spurs fan.
Someone didn't watch the 2005 Finals.Stop saying Manu got us championships. Duncan got us 3 and did a bulk of work for the 4th (Parker having a good year for the 4th). Manu made the shots he was supposed to make and Spurs were lucky that Manu's excessive turnovers (honestly, Manu isn't a good ball handler) didn't do them in.
Manu WAS NOT the reason for those rings. Duncan and Parker are the reasons.
Thanks for putting a brief smile on my face, troll.
Sasha Vuja ed Manu again tonight
Wow, i don't know how many time I have to state this: Basketball is a team game and the wins and loses are based on the whole puzzle not pieces of the puzzle.
manuer.......fok this
Which is why my first post was directed at his takes. I'm all for scaling back Manu's minutes if he's ineffective. But show some respect.
So we sit Ginobili. And who do we play in his place?
Finley?
Stoudamire?
Barry?
We don't have a lot of options. The bench is very, very thin.
Since you probably jump on the bandwagon since the playoffs started, let me refresh your memory. Manu was the team leading scorer when the playoff started.
When Timmy went down with an injury Manu put the team ok his back and we managed to beat Dallas and Utah back to back, with 30+ points from him. And it wasn't shooting treys. The guy was unstoppable driving to the basket.
He's both injured and out of gas right now. And please, when you drive and don't have a lift, you're forced to pass in pressure situations, which with lead to turnovers. Same thing with defense, if your ankle hurts, it's hard to turn and follow your guy.
Now we can argue wether Pop should play him or not like this, but throwing him under the bus like this without even mentioning that he's injured and fatigued, is just pure bull . Plus who are you going to bring in that is playing any better? Finley? Barry? Those guys camp at the 3pt line and can't create a shot to save their lives.
I understand what you are saying but Bruce Bowen in the BIG THREE? In a word, Please. Dude, you guys need Ginobili to start playing big to win this series . . . that's all there is to it. If he doesn't play well and you guys end up losing, then fine. He may not be a great player. But he is CLEARLY your third best player. And the thing with this series is that the Lakers are doubling Duncan far less often than the Hornets did and so the spurs are not going to be able to rely on using good ball rotation to get 25 wide open threes a game. In this series, your big 3 ((parker, duncan, and GINOBILI - not ing bruce bowen) need to be able to put up big numbers going one on one against the Laker defense. Otherwise, you guys can't score enough to win. It's that simple.
Also, Bruce Bowen's importance is particularly limited in this series because he has to guard Kobe Bryant. He may slow him down occasionally but the reality is Kobe is going to score regardless. He's just too good. Also, some of you spur fans greatly overstate how much Bruce Bowen can really prevent Kobe Bryant from scoring. Finally, since the spurs are getting far fewer wide open threes in this series than they did in the Hornets series (Again, primarily due to the lack of Duncan double teams), he won't be as much of a factor in terms of making wide open corner threes (which he loves). So I just don't see how you can possibly claim that Bruce Bowen deserves to be considered a member of the "big three".
Good point. If any team was forced to rely on a bench player over a hobbled star, they'd be in trouble (as far as championships are concerned).
The only way the Spurs can win a le is if Manu grits through and manages to make enough plays. If he does not, then they won't win - it's that simple.
But there's no strategy which involves anybody else making up for his production and the Spurs winning the le without him contributing. That's just not remotely a realistic option.
He'll either be a major part of the victory or a big part of the defeat. I can't possibly imagine a scenario in which the Spurs win the championship and he's only playing 20 ineffective minutes/game - no matter what kind of a contribution Udoka/Finley/Barry would make in his stead.
2005 Finals
Game 1
Duncan, 24 points, 17 rebounds, 2 blocked shots, 2 assists, 3 TO
Ginobili, 26 points, 9 rebounds, 2 assists, 4 TO
Game 2
Duncan, 18 points, 11 rebounds, 4 blocked shots, 1 assist, 2 TO
Ginobili, 27 points, 3 rebounds, 7 assists, 3 TO
Game 3
Duncan, 14 points, 10 rebounds, 1 blocked shot, 4 assist, 2 TO
Ginobili, 7 points, 4 rebounds, 6 TO
Game 4
Duncan, 16 points, 16 rebounds, 3 blocked shots, 2 assist, 3 TO
Ginobili, 12 points, 4 rebounds, 1 blocked shot, 3 assist, 2 TO
Game 5
Duncan, 26 points, 19 rebounds, 2 blocked shots, 2 assist, 2 TO
Ginobili, 15 points, 6 rebounds, 9 assist, 2 TO
Game 6
Duncan, 21 points, 15 rebounds, 1 blocked shot, 1 assist
Ginobili, 21 points, 10 rebounds, 3 assist, 3 TO
Game 7
Duncan, 25 points, 11 rebounds, 2 blocked shots, 3 assist, 5 TO
Ginobili, 23 points, 5 rebounds, 4 assist, 3 TO
Ginobili: 18.7 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 4 apg, 3.3 TO
Duncan: 20.6 ppg, 14 rpg, 2 apg, 2.1 TO
Duncan scored more. Duncan had more rebounds. Although this is expected, I list it because it's a key defensive stat. Ginobili only average 2 more assists than a big man and averaged more turnovers.
Ginobili is mainly a scorer and Duncan scored more. Duncan also took care of the ball better. The lowest Duncan scored was 14. The lowest Manu scored was f*cking 7. When the did Manu carry this team?
I'm going to make it very simple for you... Manu has carried this team to victory as many times as Duncan and Parker have. He has won games all by himself in multiple occasions and was a key guy beating the Pistons in 2005.
The guys has been playing hurt since game 1 of the first round. Teams are doing a great job on him, etc. I'm not going to bash him now because he just can't play at the level he can so you can stick all your nonsense up in your ass.
you may blame this loss partly on Manu but he not to play?
you must be kidding me. it's like a:!
NO WAY!
1) Regular season averages don't mean crap. As I said I'm a Duncan fan and I support Duncan's team. You bandwagon fans trying to act like you know something. LeBron averaged 30 points in the regular season. Did it matter in the playoffs? NO!
2) Driving when there's pressure leads to turnovers? Chris Paul would disagree since he averages only like 1 turnover a game. I won't compare though because as I said Ginobili is a turnover machine and Chris Paul is a superb PG.
3) Injury is not an excuse. Many players play with injury and do better than this. He's simply a scorer and if he's not scoring, WHY HAVE HIM OUT THERE? You know why Finley and Barry would be better at that point? Because they are more reliable at making the open trey. Duncan is going to get doubled, so Finley/Barry or Bowen will be open.
Let me tell you something. When Manu drives, he doesn't have a plan, which is why he throws the ball away so much. He just drives and if he gets pressured he just tosses it away. That's not the quality of a good, consistent scorer. Yea, he can have good nights when he scores and gets to the rim, but when he has an off scoring night, what good is he?
Answer me that one question: When he doesn't have a good scoring night, what good is he?
If Bowen is off for 3's, he still has his excellent defense. When Duncan is off, we have his excellent rebounding and defense. When Parker is off, he passes and gets his assists up.
Box score tells a lot. By disregarding the box score, you confirm your stupidity. You're looking at one play to determine things? So if a guy goes 0-20, but then makes the last clutch shot to win the game, he's suddenly played a good game? Are you re ed?
Game 5 was not anything special. They doubled him in the corner. The ONLY PERSON he could pass it to was Horry because Horry was near him. A monkey could make that pass.
Manu carried the team to victory as many times as Duncan. LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Are you talking about last plays or something? Refer to my example in the above post.
deuces88 you need to watch the games, boxscores never tell the story in any game... you are a small hollinger in process.
it was funny you said manu is a poor ballhandler...lol oh yes you know a lot about the Spurs...
by the way, we probably should thank manu for even being in the playoffs as he basically carried the team the entire season while the other key pieces were out.
This thread has fail all over it, its one of the worst threads i have ever read in this forum and you are getting owned big time. stop the bleeding
Kid, again regular season means nothing. If you're not going to be consistent in the playoffs, what's the point?
Anyone who thinks Manu is a good ball handler, just leave the forum now because you've never watched a full Spurs game ever. You've probably only seen snippets of some games.
Box Scores tell the full story. The only thing it leaves out are the intangibles which are mainly defensive. I already know from watching Manu that he's not a defensive presence. He's simply a scorer and turnover machine. When he doesn't score, he brings us nothing. Plain and simple.
For the last time, just because a person makes 1-2 good play down the stretch doesn't mean he played a good game.
By the logic of you re s, I can have a 1-50 shooting day with 20 turnovers but as long as the one shot I made was a clutch shot to win, then I played a good game and carried the team. LOL!
Box score shots attempts too, dumbass. Monkey could make the pass, correct. Horry was right near him. There was NO ONE else he could pass it to unless he thought the referee was gonna hit a shot for him. That is possibly the easiest decision and pass to make. Horry is right near you, he's open and you're down 2. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know what to do.
Yes, Manu is really a liability. Then, let Manu back to Argentina!
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