Really...Ginobili is a Liability

[SpurOutofTownFan]

This was a failed thread from the beginning, I stopped arguing with this guy. We need to thank manu the spurs are even in the playoffs pretty much. Many here were afraid so much effort during the season taking most of the load would hurt him in the postseason and here we are now.

[ElNono]

I'm still waiting for an answer. Who has the better FG%? Manu, Finley or Barry?
What's funny is your complete hate for Manu. I wonder if you were actually angry when we won in 05, because there was a discussion wether Manu or Tim should win the MVP.
And in 03, Manu had a critical steal in NJ, followed by a basket over KMart to win us the game. Not to mention the steal on RJ and dunk that changed the momentum in game 6. Wow, I just mentioned 2 defensive plays by Manu.
This is my last post on this ridiculous thread.
Please 88, do me a favor and go YOURSELF.

[SRJ]

Except, Duncan still produced more offensively and defensively. What you don't understand is that Duncan may have a lot of shot attempts but that's usually on one possession, because Duncan is good enough to get offensive rebounds.

Well, let's examine that particular scenario.

If Duncan had ORB'd every one of his missed shots and made them (not likely), then we can assume that's just as good as making the shot in the first place. Therefore, we subtract 33 FGA's from Duncan's 05 totals, giving him 54 (FGM) out of 96 (FGA) for a percentage of .563.

To be fair, we'd have to do the same for Manu, so he would get 42 out of 77 for a percentage of .545.

BUT WAIT - we're not done. Tim did not attempt (or make, obviously) any threes, whereas Manu was 12 for 31 (.387). If you convert that to a 2-point percentage, that becomes .581. Tim was also 36/54 on FTs, Manu was 35/41.

Manu was more efficient at scoring in the 2005 Finals. No amount of spin from you can change that.

Still waiting...

[BigBigSpur]

Well, he's tired, ing Deuces88!

[vander]

oh Manu's tired, I guess all is well then, no need for a championship this year, maybe some other year when he's feeling more rested.

[Ozzy]

Well let's see. Manu is a scorer. That's it. Nothing else.

Wrong.... Manu is also a WINNER!

Never forget who gets the ball every time down the stretch in close games. And produces... yep, that is Manu!

[Spurs3000]

I don't know what's wrong with me, but I feel like feeding the troll today.

Bill Simmons wrote this in his NBA MVP Breakdown last month:

5. Manu Ginobili
Ginobili's particularly unique impact this season defied any conceivable statistical measure until our friends at 82games.com unveiled "Clutch Stats" (fourth quarter or OT, five minutes or less, five-point margin or less) and "Super-Clutch Stats" (fourth quarter or OT, two minutes or less, three-point margin or less). In "Clutch" situations, the Argentinian (I love calling him that) averaged nearly a point a minute and shot 57 percent from the field, 44 percent from 3 and 93 percent from the foul line. In "Super-Clutch" situations, Manu was the third-best scorer (behind LeBron and Kobe) and shot a jaw-dropping 62 percent from the field. Throw in free-throw attempts and you could make a case that Manu was a lock to score seven out of 10 times in the last two minutes of every close game. There might be better players, but nobody's better with the bread in the toaster. Not even Kobe.

You can think what you want of Simmons as a person, but he knows his NBA.

When he scores high, is it because he's making tough shots? Actually, it's because he's making the open shots.

No, you're mistaking Manu Ginobili for Daniel Gibson.

Manu is what they call a Shotmaker in the NBA. He simply finds ways to put the ball in the basket, no matter how unorthodox, difficult or ugly. It's a rare talent at a level where pretty much your every move is anticipated by the defense. Kobe Bryant is a Shotmaker as well. Jordan was one, Iverson is one, and so is Tim Duncan.

[amy020]

how can you say that?! Manu has been the hero all season long .He really carry us this season. you've already forgot his game winner in G1 vs suns. He's been struggle with his serious ankle for so long and now the fingernail. But he also tried his best to help the team into the western final. I admit that he didn't play that well in the last two games in los angeles. but the whole team were all struggling . so many wide open shots and just miss miss miss. I believe that MANU will be back. and hope the spurs can play well in the next game. GO SPURS GO!!!

[sassystriker]

Ginobili is basically a scorer and a turnover machine. If he's not producing offensively, that just leaves turnover machine. What the is he good for? This is like Boston's Big Three turning into the Big Two Plus Ray Allen. Same here. The Big Two Plus Ginobili.

Seriously, I am more inclined to put Bowen in the Big Three. Bowen is reliable on defense and he can make the open 3. Ginobili, on the other hand, isn't a presence on defense, so we have to depend on his offense. He's a poor ball handler so he turns the ball over every other possession. Now, he can slash, but if he's not producing, he's a total liability. The worse part is, he keeps shooting and shooting poor shots even when he's off. Then the few times he does pass, he passes to f*cking Jacque Vaughn?

Duncan and Parker should leave the court in protest because no one else is making an effort for the team. Horry continues to shoot and shoot and continues to toss up the ugliest bricks I've ever seen.

I don't get Popovich. What you do in game 1 for quarter 1-3 was working. It was the last quarter you messed up (thank you, Manu), so why change? What is this giving Horry and Vaughn so many minutes when they suck SO BAD!

Keys to Victory:
-Duncan is there. Run offense THROUGH him.
-Limit Vaughn and Horry's minutes to 5 minutes each.
-Threaten to cut off Oberto's balls next time he wants to miss layups
-Threaten Tony's beard if he even thinks about settling for jumpers
-Start Finley to get Finley going early
-Pull Manu if he has a bad shooting night. Keeping him in when he's missing will only increase the turnovers
-Where the was Thomas? Is he sick or something?
-Bowen is hitting his 3's. WHY IS HORRY GETTING MORE SHOTS THAN HIM?

Seriously, we should clone Parker 4x, Duncan 4x and Bowen 1x. Have a starting lineup of Parker, Parker, Bowen, Duncan, Duncan. Then have a bench of Bowen, Parker, Parker, Parker, Duncan, Duncan, and Duncan.

I overlooked Ginobili's play in the past because he scored when necessary, but then I realized. Those 3's he made were necessary because he turned the ball over so many damn times, of course the opposing team would pull ahead of us in points.

You... are the liability.

Playoffs wouldn't even touch the Spurs this season without Manu. Get a life. What your saying are pathetic. You, infact, are a pathetic idiot for not realizing Manu's worth.

Get off his back. You'll just pretty much eat what you've said when he gets his health back.

[mowgli]

This thread has been a waste of my time. I nominate the OP for DVD Rewinder of the Week.

[Harry Callahan]

Manu has been awesome this season and even dominant at times. Unfortunately, he is INJURED and trying to play through it now with limited success.

The Spurs don't have another viable option to put in there. It's very frustrating to know he is a much much better player than what he has shown in this series so far.

He jammed his foot in the Phoenix series, and has been more of a long range shooter than the slasher he usually is. He shot a lot of outside shots in the NO series but he was still effective.

Nothings working right for him at the moment. A healthy Manu in these two games and we would have a 1-1 series heading back to SA.

[1Parker1]

Ginobili even hobbled, is going to have at least one game, where he just wills the Spurs to a win. Hope Duncan/Parker/Bowen can help him out the three games when he's off and win them.

[1Parker1]

I will say this. Ginobili had a fanstastic regular season in 07-08. Perhaps even better than in 2005 when he was an All Star. There were games where he just owned and willed the Spurs to a win. And he looked the healthiest and spriest I have ever seen him for most of the regular season.

It's very unfortunate that he got injured and ran out of gas at the most critical time in the playoff run. If Ginobili were healthy, this series would have been over in 5 with no question.

But that's no excuse, there's still 7 other guys on this team who could step up in Ginobili's place and haven't. Hopefully that changes Game 3.

[SpurOutofTownFan]

Where are you now you ing piece of garbage?

[ElNono]

Bump. Always a good time to call out the haters.

88, get your free crow tomorrow morning at Valero.

[BiZNicK]

Haha..


funny seeing a "Ginobiili is a liability" and a "Ginobili is God" thread on the same page..

[Bob Lanier]

He just made some shots like he was supposed to, idiot! That's what he's paid to do! These sons of es get paid millions of dollars to make shots, so I don't know why you're surprised when they do.

Manu is a shooting guard after all.

You people don't know much about basketball, do you?

[LakerLanny]

A lot of superstars play with injuries. Look at Iverson and Wade. even Ben Wallace once played with a f*cked up leg. That's not an excuse, especially not in Manu's case. Is his ankle telling him not to pass the ball or to pass the ball to a Laker? Is the ankle telling him to take contested 3's instead of dishing it to Duncan?

I didn't know ankles could talk.

LOL, how do you like him now?

He was clearly the difference tonight.

Props to him, despite loser fans like you.

[SPARKY]

Leave it to Deuce to make Laker Fan look smart.

[DAF86]

People, you need to understand that all the guys that say things like: Gionobili is a liability, We should trade Parker for T.J Ford, Bowen is useless, Duncan is a stiff, Pop sucks, etc. aren't Spurs fans, they're just fans of a particular individual, and we have a lot of these on this forum. So the best thing to do is just to ignore them.

[MarceloM!]

People, you need to understand that all the guys that say things like: Gionobili is a liability, We should trade Parker for T.J Ford, Bowen is useless, Duncan is a stiff, Pop sucks, etc. aren't Spurs fans, they're just fans of a particular individual, and we have a lot of these on this forum. So the best thing to do is just to ignore them.

i agree. Where are those guys saying bull on Manu?

[gwidlon]

People, you need to understand that all the guys that say things like: Gionobili is a liability, We should trade Parker for T.J Ford, Bowen is useless, Duncan is a stiff, Pop sucks, etc. aren't Spurs fans, they're just fans of a particular individual, and we have a lot of these on this forum. So the best thing to do is just to ignore them.

I agree, people like that will be more than happy with their team done for the season if their favorite player scores more than 30pts.
they are just pathetic...

[ElNono]

People, you need to understand that all the guys that say things like: Gionobili is a liability, We should trade Parker for T.J Ford, Bowen is useless, Duncan is a stiff, Pop sucks, etc. aren't Spurs fans, they're just fans of a particular individual, and we have a lot of these on this forum. So the best thing to do is just to ignore them.

You can be a fan of an individual. I don't mind that at all. What I have a problem with is the flat out hate. I don't mind criticism if somebody has not played well for a game or two. But to diminish his entire career because of a bad game or two is not only flat out wrong, but borderline trolling.

[Mister Sinister]

Holy freaking crap, posting in a Manu thread.

[atxrocker]

hey guys, so i was thinking and you know what? manu ginobili is a ing LIABILITY!!!! rofl. maybe they should bench him the rest of the lakers series. the guy sucks!