Pop and Younger Players

[Holt's Cat]

Why are the Spurs trading their 26 year old point guard who is certainly in the top 5 at his position and has a plethora of NBA championship experience? Not to mention their 32 year old big who is one of the greatest bigmen to ever play the game? Baron Davis + Monta Ellis?

:shakeshead

[YellowFever]

There is no future after Duncan.

God no. Holy that is a horrible deal.

We want the Spurs to win. Not Golden State. We're funny that way.

Reality check.

The Spurs probably won't win it this year and probably won't win it in the near future, not with the up and coming teams in the West.

Shaq HAD to go. But we proably wouldn't have won any more even if we kept that team together.

Bottom line is, yes, Duncan put you guys on the map and I like your loyalty to him but Baron Davis and Ellis plus 2 number ones means you guys get an upgrade on your PG position and can deal TP and have lots of room to play with the draft picks to get at least 3 or four good players and seriously compete for the next 7 or 8 years again...if not longer.

[Holt's Cat]

So either keep the top 3 players of a team that made it at least to the conference finals this year after winning a championship last season and revamp the supporting cast around them or deal a Tim Duncan with 4 seasons left for Baron Davis and Monta Ellis?

Sure, Laker fans would love to see that trade.

[ChumpDumper]

Reality check.

The Spurs probably won't win it this year and probably won't win it in the near future, not with the up and coming teams in the West.

Depends on whom is picked up in the meantime.

Shaq HAD to go. But we proably wouldn't have won any more even if we kept that team together.

Shaq is not Duncan.

Bottom line is, yes, Duncan put you guys on the map and I like your loyalty to him but Baron Davis and Ellis plus 2 number ones means you guys get an upgrade on your PG position and can deal TP and have lots of room to play with the draft picks to get at least 3 or four good players and seriously compete for the next 7 or 8 years again...if not longer.

OMFG. We trade for a gimp who will be 30 next year and duplicate one of our best positions and are supposed to replace the best PF in NBA history with draft picks which will be the same as if we had kept Duncan because Duncan will lead the Warriors to one of the best records in the league for three or four years.


Are you Chris Wallace?

[DazedAndConfused]

You probably don't want to break up your core that is relatively young and has won 3 championships together.

But everyone else can be jettisoned in a NY minute. Letting go of Scola and Udrih could be the moves that ultimately led to the Spur's demise.

[YellowFever]

So either keep the top 3 players of a team that made it at least to the conference finals this year after winning a championship last season and revamp the supporting cast around them or deal a Tim Duncan with 4 seasons left for Baron Davis and Monta Ellis?

Sure, Laker fans would love to see that trade.

No.

As a Laker fan, I would love for the Spurs to keep on their current path and try to find peripheral players to complement the Three Stars you have.

That's because I know it won't be enough.

As I said before...

You got to weigh how much they will help your chances to win right now to how much you can get for them in the near future.

Duncan is 32.

It's not inconcievable that this or next year might be his final "impact" year.

All I'm saying is that in the near future (very near..closer than you think) Bynum, Chandler, Gasol or any of the decent big men in this league will start to play rings around him. Do you think anybody will offer two pretty decent player plus any number 1's for him then?

See Michael Finley.

3 years ago people would have traded a Lamar Odom for him then.

Would they do so now?

[ChumpDumper]

lakerfan just compared Tim Duncan to Michael Finley.

This hijack is at an end.

[YellowFever]

Depends on whom is picked up in the meantime.

You guys got tired old men in your bench now.
You have to develop players and that is not gonna happen as long as you guys are good enough to compete but not good enough to win it all.

Shaq is not Duncan.

I hate the Big Lard and yes I hated his ass even when he was a Laker.
But he did get us three rings and can you say that Duncan in his prime is/was better than Shaq in his prime?

You probably could but I bet 90 % of the talking heads on TV would disagree with you.

OMFG. We trade for a gimp who will be 30 next year and duplicate one of our best positions and are supposed to replace the best PF in NBA history with draft picks which will be the same as if we had kept Duncan because Duncan will lead the Warriors to one of the best records in the league for three or four years.

It's not gimp that is the main attraction in that trade.

It's the 2 number ones.
(yeah this trade is purely hypothetical and made up but I decided to run with it)

Do you honestly think that team minus Davis and Ellis but with Duncan will seriously contend in that league?

Hmm....

Are you Chris Wallace?

Ummm....no...

But I thought this way it would be kinda fun for the mental masturbation rather than the usual Spur Forum's " you faker fans" take.

[SnakeBoy]

Trading away TP, Manu, Duncan...wishfull thinking for a lakers fan.

Duncan will retire in a Spurs jersey just like David. The way it should be. Then we can hope for a little lottery luck one more time. We'll get to talk about three-peats too.

[YellowFever]

lakerfan just compared Tim Duncan to Michael Finley.

This hijack is at an end.

Oh sure, just delude yourself into thinking that I actually compared Fin to Duncan.

Finley was used as an example.

This conversation is apparantly at an end.

Keep deluding yourself into thinking you'll ride Duncan to another 4 glorious rings in the near future.

[ChumpDumper]

You guys got tired old men in your bench now.

Not for long. If you don't know the Spurs' history of roster turnover, kindly STFU.

I hate the Big Lard and yes I hated his ass even when he was a Laker.
But he did get us three rings and can you say that Duncan in his prime is/was better than Shaq in his prime?

Duncan has gotten us four rings, and he's still quite good.

You probably could but I bet 90 % of the talking heads on TV would disagree with you.

Now we're talking about the opinion of TV talking heads? Just go to some board that cares about something like that. It ain't here.

It's not gimp that is the main attraction in that trade.

It's the 2 number ones.

Those number ones can't be consecutive and will not be good, especially after Duncan plays for them.

Do you honestly think that team minus Davis and Ellis but with Duncan will seriously contend in that league?

Oh yes. You got Duncan + Jack.

Ummm....no...

I have seen no evidence to refute this -- but you probably don't even know who he is.

But I thought this way it would be kinda fun for the mental masturbation rather than the usual Spur Forum's " you faker fans" take.

Keep your masturbation to yourself.

[ChumpDumper]

Oh sure, just delude yourself into thinking that I actually compared Fin to Duncan.

You did. Now you realize how stupid you are and are backing off it.

Keep deluding yourself into thinking you'll ride Duncan to another 4 glorious rings in the near future.

Just like Phoenix and Dallas rode Finley to all theirs

This conversation is apparantly at an end.

Oh yes.

[Man of Steel]

I do agree we need some youth to come off the bench.

[TDMVPDPOY]

i trade ginoboli for jax + elis in a heartbeat

[bigdog]

this thread is over.

[roycrikside]

Not working in at least one young player into the rotation seems to have backfired now. Even Flip Saunders adjusted, started playing his bench and now he has players like Rodney Stuckey and Jason Maxiell who can add youthful exuberance, at the very least.

However, it's hard for me to be too critical when the same formula won in 2005 and 2007. Next year, though, it looks mandatory if for no other reason than to help keep the Big Three fresh for the playoffs. A young scoring threat has to be brought in -- whether that be Mahinmi, a young wing or a rookie backup PG.

Or all three. They should go after Kelenna Azuibuike of the Warriors. He's young, extremely athletic, coachable, a great rebounder, and a good shooter. He'd be the perfect starting shooting guard for us to replace Fin.

If the Spurs get eliminated this year it'll be because their youngest wing player was Manu, at an old 30.

2005 and 2007 were different. 2005 Manu and Timmy were younger, Horry could still play and make shots and the rotation was set. In 2007 we basically got a gift championship, it was the easiest road ever except for round 2 and the Suns are soft. All three teams we've played thus far are better than anyone we played last year.

[timaios]

Duncan is 32.

It's not inconcievable that this or next year might be his final "impact" year.

Michael Jordan was 35 when he won his 6th le !

[Capt Bringdown]

Letting go of Scola and Udrih could be the moves that ultimately led to the Spur's demise.

It's a broken record that nobody wants to hear, but you're absolutely correct.

Scola would have been precisely what the doctor ordered this season and in this series especially.

Certainly better than brickmeister Horry and lead-footed Kurt Thomas.

How and why we let him slip through our fingertips so that we could sign Matt ing Bonner is one of those stories that will echo down thru the ages.

FO essentially pissed away the le in the offseason IMO. Lack of imagination, arrogance and complacency were the culprits I believe.

[Harry Callahan]

What young players have we had the chance to acquire that were better than the role players we have now?

I'm talking free agency or the draft and I don't wanna hear Josh Howard or Barbosa.

Yeah, Josh Howard is an idiot who has issues in the head and Barbosa only plays well when the pressure is off.

When your highest draft pick in the last ten years is the 24th or 25th pick, you don't get the opportunity to regularly infuse youth. The Spurs have actually done a pretty good job with the draft picks they have had. In order to get value (talent) on these low picks, they have drafted foreign players who were not on everybody's list.

This practice has its downside as we have seen with the Splitter and Scola situations. The Spurs have decided they can wait on players who they think have more talent than the immediately available players at the end of the 1st round. I think that policy will change a bit going forward.

[ElNono]

I know Duncan means alot to you Spurs fans but would you trade him straight up right now for let's say Baron Davis, Monte Ellis and two number ones??

Who do you think we are? The Dallas Mavericks? no...

[Harry Callahan]

All these Laker fans think they are on a course to another threepeat or fourpeat. Not gonna happen. Kobe is great, but wing players tend to break down when they get into their 30s (see Manu, who is only a year older than Kobe with A LOT less miles on his odometer).

Bynum has the potential to be a star, but he has already had a significant injury to his knee requiring a couple of surgeries. Can he stay healthy?

Gasol and Odum are good, but they have been somewhat up and down in the playoffs. Gasol seems to be soft as tissue paper too, but that is not news.

The Lakers will go as far as Kobe can take them in the next few years. I don't see them being as dominant was they were when Kobe and Shaq were together. Very good yes, not dominant.

I think Boston or Detroit will be able to turn the Lakers into the Kobe show and limit the other guys. This is assuming the Spurs don't win three games in a row, of course. Ginobili's leg issues and the geezer bench don't breed a lot of confidence in that happening.

[SenorSpur]

When your highest draft pick in the last ten years is the 24th or 25th pick, you don't get the opportunity to regularly infuse youth.

Bull ! Teams like the Pistons, Rockets and Fakers seem to get the most of their draft positions. So I wouldn't say you're NOT going to find talent at the end of the first round. Especially with the influx of high school, early-entry and Euro players that have been flooding the drafts in recent years.

The Spurs have actually done a pretty good job with the draft picks they have had. In order to get value (talent) on these low picks, they have drafted foreign players who were not on everybody's list.

Where have they done a good job in managing their draft picks? Besides Ian, What do they have to show for it? Are you referring to Scola, Beno? Where are the results?

This practice has its downside as we have seen with the Splitter and Scola situations. The Spurs have decided they can wait on players who they think have more talent than the immediately available players at the end of the 1st round. I think that policy will change a bit going forward.

When was the last time the Spurs drafted and developed a domestic player? I'm sure the organization prefers the "draft-n-stash" philosophy so they can save money during the first few years of player development, but don't look now because the cupboard is just about bare. Total dependence on that philosophy was short-sighted to begin with. The Scola and Splitter fiascos bear this out. That said, that philosophy ABSOLUTELY has to change.

[SpurOutofTownFan]

If you want an example you have Udoka - he's a young players that Pop gave a lot of room to make mistakes and learn. He has had some very good games but it's more the bad than the good. He often makes huge mistakes with bad fouls for example. He has a problem with dunking on the open and allows players to block his shots. His defense isn't solid enough against smaller shooting guards and he was supposed to be Bowen's protege.

Bonner on the other hand should deserve more time than what he gets now. He has made mistakes before and has been in pop's doghouse longer than anyone else but he's a solid player, can bang people and has an accurate 3 pt shot. But, he's young.

[Holt's Cat]

If you want an example you have Udoka - he's a young players that Pop gave a lot of room to make mistakes and learn. He has had some very good games but it's more the bad than the good. He often makes huge mistakes with bad fouls for example. He has a problem with dunking on the open and allows players to block his shots. His defense isn't solid enough against smaller shooting guards and he was supposed to be Bowen's protege.

Bonner on the other hand should deserve more time than what he gets now. He has made mistakes before and has been in pop's doghouse longer than anyone else but he's a solid player, can bang people and has an accurate 3 pt shot. But, he's young.

Udoka is a youngster at the precocious age of 57.

[sedale threatt]

phil had a huge rep for hating younger players. apparently he got over it and now we're dealing with turiaf, sasha, farmar, and walton playing like seasoned warriors and messing with our dynasty.